ogated enough, we'll tell the lists to use
linuxchix.org as their domain.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Ve
Thanks for your attention, support, and patience, while we make these
changes.
Dancer and Jenn Vesperman, & the various volunteers who are making
this possible.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - D
at American
Movie Culture tends to depict them badly.
Neither of us intended at all to trivialise /your/ issue, which
appears to be fraternities-who-rape. Both of us are ignorant
of your issue, it seems, though to different extents.
Please don't get angry at side threads, that'
ainly hope I haven't
> given up freedom except according to the most trivial definition.
Loose choice of words, and trivial definitions of 'giving up' and
'freedom'.
It never even OCCURED to me that anyone might interpret what I said
as tightly as you appear to have.
up my freedom to behave in an unprofessional manner while
in the work environment.
Hm. Not 'giving up' per se .. but 'choosing to hold in abeyance for
the set period of time'.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
Daniel Bravo wrote:
> Jenn,
>
> Well, if American teenage college movies showed
> the good side of fraternities and sororities, I don't
> think that they would be too entertaining. Just keep
> in mind that there are two sides to every coin.
Oh, I don't kn
(PS: docbooked the articles. Decided I might as well write the last
two before I send them in. Have the first (data transmission) mostly
done, and the second will be quick.)
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss
Daniel:
This is one instance where I'm very glad to be wrong.
Thank you.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.co
ing in a new staff member.
> Yes - a lot of companies export work to countries with lax laws, since
> it's cheaper that way. The ethics of this are rather questionable, but
> that's another issue...
New Zealand is hardly a country with lax labour laws!
Jenn V.
--
&qu
er
*LEGAL* contracts about employment.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/
___
. We need to see women writing and
> producing publicly, not behind pseudonyms.
I agree... but why is there the pressure which leads women to be
more comfortable using male pseudonyms?
(BTW: I'm planning to docbook those articles today, David.)
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder
gt; I don't mean it. I think that's where it all started.
> So, for you and anyone else reading. If I'm being arrogant or
> egotistical it's either a) a joke or b)
> I need a smack. :-)
Enough people ARE egotistical that it's damned hard to tell when
it
> Can you repost with some pointers as to how to do this please? I don't think
> you included them the first time around. Is there a webpage to visit?
URK! Did I forget to do that! My error, my apologies.
Go here:
http://www.simegen.com/mailman/listinfo/volunteers
And sign up.
will almost certainly be overwritten.
Please bear with us, we're hoping to transfer things as smoothly as
possible, for Deb's sake and .. well, everyone's. :)
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by be
it. I just see it as
something I want to do, that I feel is worthwhile in and of itself.
I don't know a way to fight the gradual slide to plutocracy. If I
knew of an effective one, I'd be doing it.
I feel disenfranchised. Taxation without representation, and all
that. Oh, there's
ut, we get
> a world full of companies like microsoft, with few alternatives. I don't like
> that scenario.
Neither do I. But I don't see the options as strictly binary - closed
or open. I see room for both.
To me, most of the questions you just asked are non-issues - I suspect
re of the property being given away.
Oh, and the fact that a program written for my local use can be
distributed while still remaining useful to me locally. Try doing
that with an adventure playground or a scout cabin!
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of
Issues FAQ repost
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/
LinuxChix: Issues FAQ
Jennifer Vesperman
Copyright © 2
e-looking guys there?
... and I went to the gym today. And forgot to look.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jen
ny
nice-looking guys there?
(I already know there are nice guys there. As in 'friendly', 'helpful',
'supportive', etc. But I never noticed how they look.)
And yes, I'm serious. I just /don't look/. This is why being 'looked'
at startles and conf
still nursing the baby might
be part of it - *you* have to be around anyway.
If you still do the bulk of the childcare after he's on solid food, and
it's not a deliberate decision between the two of you, you might want
to start looking at why.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wond
te-by-nature (as in, not attracted
to either gender).
Hm. That begs the following case:
women who are separatist, but by-nature attracted to men, and thus
remain celibate by choice.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss
t;>
>> Is this an honest question or are you intentionally pretending to
>> be stupid?
>
>
> Unless I've suddenly developed telekinetic powers, my thoughts cannot
> affect others in any way. You only see what I *DO*, not what I think.
But what you think comes out in what y
my husband to pay it'. She'd have had no idea that they were
behind. And the serviceman would nod understandingly. That was normal.
The lady of the house never did!
I'm s glad I don't live like that!
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a who
into as much
> intimacy as you both are comfortable with, as opposed to picking
> some random stranger off the street, dubbing yourselves "an item",
> and going from insubstantial banter to sharing your deepest darkest
> secrets in the blink of an eye.
Heh...
Jenn V.
--
&q
27;m sure you can tell when
someone's not really listening to you. So can we. And combine that with
the directions of their glance, and we can tell what they're listening
to
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a
dship. :) No
running when you can't even crawl yet. :)
Besides, I was friends with Dancer for five years (or more!) before we
got married. And we've been married for ten years now. You never know
Jenn V.
--
"Do you eve
t few, and the first few would probably colour the WAY you
read the second lot.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com
n a script kiddie who's trying to hack my
mental/emotional firewall so he can plug into my sockets.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman
f that from telemarketers.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/
Conor is absolutely right in his comments below. I'm guilty as charged.
I ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) said:
>> I'm really blathering on with this topic .. hopefully I'm making sense.
>>
>> Jenn V.
And he said to me:
> Dare I say it? Doesn't the a
in that environment.
I *think* it's a human-thing, not a male- or female- one.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMA
ople on the books. 4 are women.
The writers?
Me.
Catherine.
Kate.
What are the odds of that being random? (yes, all three of us are female)
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dan
(1) Try the man pages. (Or info, or --help)
> This is useful if you know the name of the command or application
> you are using.
The 'man -k ' or 'apropos ' command can help you locate
the command you want but don't know th
d go down it.
Noone sensible will care that you're behind them on /their/ road,
especially since you're ahead of them on /yours/. And the ones who
are sharing your road, but ahead of you, should be happy to help.
If they're not, they're idiots. :) They won't be walking that
ick it up.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/
___
issue
Rebecca J. Walter wrote:
> how about we all make a deal with each other? we WILL post possible
> answers. if the answer isnt correct, we will learn from corrections.
> NO ONE will bash anyone else for having been wrong.
Good thought. I agree.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you
-cred. :/
On the other hand, I insist on being paid at least as much for
techwriting as for coding. My argument, when I need to use it, is
"Your choice: I code, or I techwrite. You want me to techwrite instead,
therefore it's more valuable to you. So pay for it."
Jenn V.
--
fixed with the world?
I'd say yes!
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/
___
'are women discouraged at all?')
However, it's a quiet enough list that I doubt anyone would mind
other sorts of discussions as well .. so long as they were at least
roughly on-topic.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
t Linuxchix have appeared on /., so I
> wondered...
We haven't yet had 'wanna get some' posts. We have had trolling, and
we have had conversation-derailing 'so what's this list FOR anyway' or
'why the hell should women get their own list' questions.
ormation
you need, in the section about such-and-so' is helpful, and there's
nothing wrong with THAT sort. In fact, there's everything right with
it.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by b
tive about 'women and Linux' that we have a
> chat list, a gender discussion list, a help list, all of which is well
> and good, but no hardcore hackers list.
Mmm.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you mis
that's why it seems to be guys answering.
Can anyone explain to me why I do that?
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] Jenn Vesperman http://www.
t a third, you're dominating
discussion - but there's others talking.
Also watch to see if something you say ends the discussion. As they say,
once is the thing itself. Twice is coincidence, three times is
conspiracy. Or, in this case, a sign that you're dominating discussion
i
Because the list has been s quiet, here's a repost of the
issues FAQ.
Hopefully something will spur discussion.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED
"a.eva yee" wrote:
> Jenn V wrote:
> >... and what if you're a large build, and you wear pants out in the
> >crotch (or more precisely, upper thigh) in about a year?
> >Or am I missing some brilliant idea. Anyone got a brilliant idea for me?
> if it fi
have clothes that last for years.
Or am I missing some brilliant idea. Anyone got a brilliant idea for me?
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PRO
buyer or do nasty things to
> their sizing would also be good.
If I knew of such places, I wouldn't have just bought a sewing machine.
(Or maybe I would have...)
Anyone want to volunteer for such a FAQ-section? :)
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a
ttle to
> me.
According to a Myer catalogue: size 10 is 68-72 cm underbust, 12
73-77cm, 14 78-82, 16 83-87, 18 88-92, 20 93-97, 22 98-102, 24 103-107,
26 109-112.
DON'T take this as gospel - Myer's interpretation of sizes may be
different from bodywise'. Send them your a
Release 1.0 of the issues faq!
Comments and discussion welcome.. this is /our/ FAQ.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vesper
or from work at 9pm, and the company
doesn't seem to care, I'm going to take my sysadminning skills to a
company
which does.
Sometimes it's not 'benefits'. It's simple safety.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek c
or
solve it.
For an everyday physical example, if my 2-year-old nephew splashes
peanut butter all over the room, does it have to wait till he's grown
up some and can mop the floor himself?
Ludicrous. And just about /any/ problem can be at least partially
resolved by anyone who's affect
e
was female, ergo she was SUPPOSED to want them.. when she's not all that
maternal and her partner would be much, MUCH better with the kids, and
they with him.
Lesigh.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out
eople who think she should 'look after her husband' - and she might
still be low-status.
Of course, males are no better off. :/
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?&
and that I don't hug or otherwise touch males as often as I do
females.
Unconscious, unaware sexism. Hmm.
> Hey, I'm a Klingon Diplomacy Academy graduate. It comes in more useful
> than you might think.
Heh. :)
I should use Klingon diplomacy more often than I do.
Jenn V.
--
anger them and make them more resistant to your words.
Accusations at all, or statements which can be taken as accusations,
don't help. Of course, I'm guilty of that too. :) It's the easy way
to get your point said.
Of course, it doesn't get your poin
doing half the
> housework and childcare and aren't referred to as babysitting their
> own kids when the mom is out and take days off of work because their
> kids are sick. Then maybe they will deserve to have custody.
Start lobbying.
Ok, not all men - but some. My brother, for instan
ring with 'puters in the 50's and 60's.
There'll be some in your community. And she was fascinating to listen
to.
And she was very interested. Wanted to know how we got from the PDP-11
series to PCs.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section o
wirren wrote:
>
> By tram you mean streetcar, right?
Well, I don't know what a streetcar is. I do know what a tram is. :)
It's 'light rail' - single carriage railed vehicles about the size
of buses, which run on rails set into the road.
Apologies for the off-topi
heir underlying automatic assumption was that
_they_ would be the ones who solved technical hassles in their lives.
How _WONDERFUL_! I was walking on clouds all day. :)
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a
s no authority to make ME use programs
or protocols.
Jenn V.
(The Australian government, yes. The US? No.)
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/
JoAnne Abbott wrote:
> Jenn V wrote:
> > Could you define the difference between a protocol and a standard?
>
> A protocol is a generalised consensus of the way something is done.
>
> A standard is so many meters, liters or lines of code.
Sorry, I disagree with
that standards don't affect
research and experimentation. Only marketplace implementation.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/
Jenn
ne Abbott C.E.T. MSEE, DSM
Ahem.
Lots of letters after her name. I'm impressed.
Is this an attempt to use the 'appeal-to-authority' logical
fallacy?
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
V signals, you'd have to buy NBC's TV to see NBC programs, but it
wouldn't necessarily display CNN's.
I approve of backwards compatibility - to a point. But only to
a point. And precisely where that point is, I can't say.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing t
range of national emergencies.
Armies can - often don't, but can - provide temporary housing, food
and medical care for cities and towns devastated by natural disasters.
Emergency services personnel and charities can do the same, but the
redundancy is rather comforting.
YMMV.
Jenn
Kirrily 'Skud' Robert wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Alexander Sendzimir wrote:
> >"Jenn V." wrote:
> >
> >> 2. Power.
> >> If one party has power over the other - financial, managerial,
> >> uni-results, force o
srl wrote:
> Or "if you're really loyal to this company, you'll work 70 hours a
> week," which IMO is a far more common statement and gets aimed
> equally at everyone when it's used.
I got 'well, you're not married and you don't have children..
Alexander Sendzimir wrote:
>
> "Jenn V." wrote:
>
> > 2. Power.
> > If one party has power over the other - financial, managerial,
> > uni-results, force of personality - then it becomes terribly,
> > terribly awkward for the one without power.
>
http://download.sourceforge.net/linuxchix-faqs/issues.html
I've quoted the URL for the HTMLised version of the FAQ, rather
than the main FAQ.
Please note that the internal links are broken, my docbook
stylesheet for HTML doesn't seem to understand relative links.
I spologise for th
to them that you /do/ believe they know the difference between
cat5 and 10baseT. Then flirt while handing them screws and letting
them install your new ethernet card.
(* if anyone's interested in why, there's diabetes in my family.
I'd like to not have to stick myself wit
tables where an interesting wargame (board type only)
was going on. "Can you teach me how to play this?"*
Only ever worked the first time I met any given bunch of guys.
But BOY I enjoyed it...
Jenn V.
* For people who don't quite understand what was going on: I was
usually mistak
nism and quotas. And it seems to be extremely difficult to get them
to believe that we don't. Sigh.
1.4. 'Just live with it'
This ('just live with it') is a common response to complaints about
teasing, seduction attempts and other such crud in the workplace.
Now, I (Jenn)
7;faq.sgml',
and is in raw docbook format. Read around the tags. :)
I want to get a bit more done before I do an actual release.
Help is appreciated - email me your sourceforge name and I'll include
you in the dev team. :)
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a
s an equal-opportunity place, go for it.
It's almost embarassing that I /didn't/ get whistled. :)
Sometimes, you get to work in a place where everyone's mature.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
ff the top of my head: Marie Curie. Ada Lovelace.
And Athena was female.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vesperman
getting to see my postal address.
Spam is the LEAST of the potential problems
And if I don't publicise that for me, why would I want to do that to my
friends?
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out
ne! Take heart from the fact that the women's networks DO
exist. They're proof that you can get your networks in place.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Free
won't get it in a 'logical' relationship - but in ANY relationship, that
headiness goes away quickly. Solid, stable love is a deeper, quieter
feeling - and yes, I have that with Dancer. And at any time, I can close my
eyes and reach for it, and be overwhelmed by it.
> Some
g. The shoes, the long
fingernails, the hobbleskirts, the fragile stockings - they all add up, to
me, to the idea 'Hey, look! I'm so rich my wife doesn't have to do a
thing'.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This
tivation to carry the motivations further.
Um. 'Our' position is that we want to stop _QUASHING_ this spark.
BTW. Your mails are datestamped 1994. :)
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
how their parents react to the children
learning.
If parents watch one child struggle and tend to 'help' the child
rather than letting the child learn, that child gets the message
that 'computers aren't my thing'.
Especially if the other child in the family is left
lcome to use this project
directory as well.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vesperman
http://www.simegen.com/~jenn/
__
ard it to
me. I doubt anyone does, but .. maybe.
Thanks.
Jenn V.
--
"Do you ever wonder if there's a whole section of geek culture
you miss out on by being a geek?" - Dancer.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vesperman
quire them to be comfortable around
computers.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/
Jenn Vesperma
Hm.
I just thought of an answer for the last question ('how do you
justify linuxchix?').
'I justify it the same way I justify any Open Source project:
I perceived a need, and I created something to fill that need.'
... thoughts?
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing
Caitlyn Máire Martin wrote:
> You do *not* suck. You are working hard to solve a difficult problem
> and not getting anything back for doing it. You deserve praise, not to
> be ignored. Please don't be so hard on yourself, OK?
Hear hear!
Jenn V.
ObIssues: Dancer ca
lick on dria in 'people' to see and read her diary.
Thanks.
Jenn V.
--
Humans are the only species to feed and house entirely separate species
for no reason other than the pleasure of their company. Why?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vespermanhttp://www.simegen.com/~jenn/
ssues that /aren't/ Linux/Unix/computing related.
Anyone who has links to sites like that, please feel VERY free to send
them to me. I'd rather be writing/refining/honing this document than
websearching feminism sites. There's probably about twenty good ones,
and two hundred ghastly
eered to build and run a techtalk FAQ. We have a
potential permanent maintainer for grrltalk, whose life appears to have
eaten him.
Jenn V.
--
Humans are the only species to feed and house entirely separate species
for no reason other than the pleasure of their company. Why?
[EMAIL
Mary Wood wrote:
> Jenn writes;
>
> > I want to write something in the Issues FAQ about 'trivialising'
> > - such as people using the word 'rape' to mean other, less intense
> > forms of injury.
>
> I trust this FAQ will be carefully wor
whether
someone writes me something I can use - I just want the information in
the FAQ somewhere.
Thanks.
Jenn V.
--
Humans are the only species to feed and house entirely separate species
for no reason other than the pleasure of their company. Why?
[EMAIL PROTECTED]Jenn Vesp
is a "sense of wonder"
> > apprehension of the infinite complexity which is entirely built upon the
> > basis of 1 and 0.
Yup. Or the sense of wonder at the infinite complexity built on
protons, neutrons and electrons...
Or the sense of wonder at colour...
Or at ..
J
e there annoys me to no end.
Religion != Christianity. I'm not christian. I am religious.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/
Jenn
.." if necessary.
Or I take him aside privately at lunchtime and tell him what he's
doing. Depends on how I'm feeling, and suchlike.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
ormal font size settings".
Raises her hand. Me. That'd include me!
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/
Jenn Vesperman[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.simegen.com/~jenn
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
Rik Hemsley wrote:
> Jenn V. wrote:
> > The same as for a bi women. Bi or bisexual.
>
> That's crap though. We need two new words, one for bi women, one for
> bi men. Then make everyone in the world aware of them and they move
> into common use. Reckon that can be don
tually, you recall what I said about training courses, that we're
> getting more women than men attending them? We're also getting more
> women than men applying for jobs with us. Or at any rate, more
> *qualified* women.
Existence of female geeks already in the company?
J
Rik Hemsley wrote:
>
> #if Jenn V.
> > Lets make Melbourne an enclave of Linux-wielding hippie geek
> > vegan dykes - and those who don't quite fit that description.
> > (linux-wielding hippie geek vegan males are welcome too. And
> > those who don't qui
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