Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Forrest Christian (List Account)]

So, I went digging for a reason behind the positives for people who didn't
actually succeed in getting tested.

One thing I found is that it sounds like some of these testing sites are
not being run in a very intelligent manner.The brokenness you described
(where 3 people who got out of line got calls about a positive result), may
be a result of some sites which apparently took the personal information
when people got in line, and then assumed that everyone stayed in line.
 So if one person gets out of line, then the people behind them don't get
their own test results, they get the results of the people behind them, and
the person who got out of line gets a test result even though they weren't
tested.   Apparently this has happened in at least one location but
hopefully isn't all that common as this is a pretty stupid thing to do.

There are also people who are getting calls from scammers who are trying to
convince people they are positive for some scammy purpose.   With so many
tests being administered, it's probably a pretty high chance that a scammer
will successfully reach people who have had a recent COVID test.   And with
tests taking a week or more for results, the window is fairly wide.

I don't doubt at all that people are getting the wrong results, false
positives, false negatives, and so on.   I also don't doubt that some
misguided localities are deciding to report things in non-straightforward
ways which make the stats better for whatever reasons.   My favorite is the
states who have decided to report based on 'date of symptom onset', so you
never see the number of new positive cases on a given date, they just
silently update the numbers over the last 2 weeks as people get tested, and
the graphs always look like the numbers are going down since not all of the
recent cases are discovered yet.

Like anything though, there seem to be quite a few conspiracy theorists out
there who are convinced that all the numbers are being faked, including
hospitalizations and deaths.  Yes, it is certain that the numbers aren't
100% correct, and I'm sure there will be lots of examples where people
don't feel a given case was recorded properly, but I just can't see it
being a widespread conspiracy being driven by whoever the theorist's
favorite bogeyman is.

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> To be clear, I was saying there was a conspiracy. Although I will say if
> you want more of something, you subsidize it, and less of something, you
> tax it. All I was saying is I saw no reason for an entity, public or
> private, to falsify 3 out of 3 tests unless there was some financial
> incentive for doing so. Although anecdotal, that's a hell of a coincidence.
>
> Again, economic policy can drive mass decision making, which to some, can
> seem like a conspiracy, but in actuality is just macroeconomic decisions
> working down to the micro level. The same reason people buy shit at
> Wal-Mart for $2 less than somewhere else.
>
> Anyway, I just thought it added color to the numbers and is the only
> actual verifiable inconsistency I have seen.
>
> In my opinion, everyone on the planet, save those cannibals on that little
> island of NZ, are going to get COVID so while slowing it might be a good
> idea, it lengthens the time we stay in this rut and doesn't prevent the
> inevitable.
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:23 PM  wrote:
>
>> I make sure all my aliens have an I-9
>>
>> *From:* Nate Burke
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:17 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?
>>
>> I thought the only time Government was competent was when it was
>> involving conspiracy?
>>
>> IRS looses 1 laptop and millions of peoples data is in the wild, "Gov't
>> leaks data like a sieve"
>>
>> 1000's of people in and out of Area51, and not a single picture of the
>> aliens?  "Gov't has been covering it up for 60 years"
>>
>> On 8/5/2020 2:42 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>
>> Conspiracy theories lose credibility when the number of participants
>> exceed 5 or 10 people. You're talking about a conspiracy involving 5 or 6
>> thousand hospitals in 50 states (plus all the territories), with who knows
>> how many people involved at each hospital.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 8/5/2020 10:44 AM, justsumname wrote:
>>
>> There is plenty of financial and political incentive for the numbers to
>> be as awful as they can almost justify them to be.
>>
>> My governor publishes a report every day.   The number in my county keeps
>> going up, never down.   So the same guy who got it early and died, does he
>> still count?   How about the ones who got it and 'recovered' ?   What about
>> the people who tested only for the antibody?   I guess they count as 'got
>> it', too.
>>
>> Anything goes, no honesty or transparency required.   And the more dead
>> people, the better.
>> --
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:05 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> I see young kids in places like stores wearing masks 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Mike Hammett]

One of the things that the federal government and international community 
should have been focused on is defining testing and reporting procedures to 
ensure data integrity, completeness, and the ability to track and compare 
across jurisdictions. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Forrest Christian (List Account)"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:25:49 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news? 


So, I went digging for a reason behind the positives for people who didn't 
actually succeed in getting tested. 


One thing I found is that it sounds like some of these testing sites are not 
being run in a very intelligent manner. The brokenness you described (where 3 
people who got out of line got calls about a positive result), may be a result 
of some sites which apparently took the personal information when people got in 
line, and then assumed that everyone stayed in line. So if one person gets out 
of line, then the people behind them don't get their own test results, they get 
the results of the people behind them, and the person who got out of line gets 
a test result even though they weren't tested. Apparently this has happened in 
at least one location but hopefully isn't all that common as this is a pretty 
stupid thing to do. 


There are also people who are getting calls from scammers who are trying to 
convince people they are positive for some scammy purpose. With so many tests 
being administered, it's probably a pretty high chance that a scammer will 
successfully reach people who have had a recent COVID test. And with tests 
taking a week or more for results, the window is fairly wide. 


I don't doubt at all that people are getting the wrong results, false 
positives, false negatives, and so on. I also don't doubt that some misguided 
localities are deciding to report things in non-straightforward ways which make 
the stats better for whatever reasons. My favorite is the states who have 
decided to report based on 'date of symptom onset', so you never see the number 
of new positive cases on a given date, they just silently update the numbers 
over the last 2 weeks as people get tested, and the graphs always look like the 
numbers are going down since not all of the recent cases are discovered yet. 


Like anything though, there seem to be quite a few conspiracy theorists out 
there who are convinced that all the numbers are being faked, including 
hospitalizations and deaths. Yes, it is certain that the numbers aren't 100% 
correct, and I'm sure there will be lots of examples where people don't feel a 
given case was recorded properly, but I just can't see it being a widespread 
conspiracy being driven by whoever the theorist's favorite bogeyman is. 


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lewis Bergman < lewis.berg...@gmail.com > wrote: 



To be clear, I was saying there was a conspiracy. Although I will say if you 
want more of something, you subsidize it, and less of something, you tax it. 
All I was saying is I saw no reason for an entity, public or private, to 
falsify 3 out of 3 tests unless there was some financial incentive for doing 
so. Although anecdotal, that's a hell of a coincidence. 


Again, economic policy can drive mass decision making, which to some, can seem 
like a conspiracy, but in actuality is just macroeconomic decisions working 
down to the micro level. The same reason people buy shit at Wal-Mart for $2 
less than somewhere else. 


Anyway, I just thought it added color to the numbers and is the only actual 
verifiable inconsistency I have seen. 


In my opinion, everyone on the planet, save those cannibals on that little 
island of NZ, are going to get COVID so while slowing it might be a good idea, 
it lengthens the time we stay in this rut and doesn't prevent the inevitable. 



On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:23 PM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I make sure all my aliens have an I-9 




From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:17 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news? 

I thought the only time Government was competent was when it was involving 
conspiracy? 

IRS looses 1 laptop and millions of peoples data is in the wild, "Gov't leaks 
data like a sieve" 

1000's of people in and out of Area51, and not a single picture of the aliens? 
"Gov't has been covering it up for 60 years" 


On 8/5/2020 2:42 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 



Conspiracy theories lose credibility when the number of participants exceed 5 
or 10 people. You're talking about a conspiracy involving 5 or 6 thousand 
hospitals in 50 states (plus all the territories), with who knows how many 
people involved at each hospital. 
bp
 
On 8/5/2020 10:44 AM, justsumname wrote: 



There is plenty of financial and political incentive for the numbers to be as 
awful as they can almost justify them to be. 

My governor p

Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Lewis Bergman]

WTF don't you people understand? How many times do I have to state I am NOT
trying to state, imply, or propagate that there is a conspiracy to inflate,
deflate, or otherwise misreport the numbers?

I'll state again, for I hope the very last time:
Anecdotal information I have personal knowledge of to be true, that there
is over reporting in this oh so tiny subset of data. I am sure there is
misreporting of positive cases as negative. I merely quesited about there
being some misguided economic incentive, put in place with the best
intentions but possibly mistakenly incentivizing testing facilities, to
report positive cases. I have no idea why such a policy would be put in
place.

Whatever, this whole thing has just driven people crazy.

If you think you are gonna get sick, stay isolated. If your grandmother is
fragile, she should stay isolated. If you are healthy, or just don't care
anymore, do whatever the $%@& you want.

Other than that, it is going to be mighty hot out there today.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 2:26 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> So, I went digging for a reason behind the positives for people who didn't
> actually succeed in getting tested.
>
> One thing I found is that it sounds like some of these testing sites are
> not being run in a very intelligent manner.The brokenness you described
> (where 3 people who got out of line got calls about a positive result), may
> be a result of some sites which apparently took the personal information
> when people got in line, and then assumed that everyone stayed in line.
>  So if one person gets out of line, then the people behind them don't get
> their own test results, they get the results of the people behind them, and
> the person who got out of line gets a test result even though they weren't
> tested.   Apparently this has happened in at least one location but
> hopefully isn't all that common as this is a pretty stupid thing to do.
>
> There are also people who are getting calls from scammers who are trying
> to convince people they are positive for some scammy purpose.   With so
> many tests being administered, it's probably a pretty high chance that a
> scammer will successfully reach people who have had a recent COVID test.
>  And with tests taking a week or more for results, the window is fairly
> wide.
>
> I don't doubt at all that people are getting the wrong results, false
> positives, false negatives, and so on.   I also don't doubt that some
> misguided localities are deciding to report things in non-straightforward
> ways which make the stats better for whatever reasons.   My favorite is the
> states who have decided to report based on 'date of symptom onset', so you
> never see the number of new positive cases on a given date, they just
> silently update the numbers over the last 2 weeks as people get tested, and
> the graphs always look like the numbers are going down since not all of the
> recent cases are discovered yet.
>
> Like anything though, there seem to be quite a few conspiracy theorists
> out there who are convinced that all the numbers are being faked, including
> hospitalizations and deaths.  Yes, it is certain that the numbers aren't
> 100% correct, and I'm sure there will be lots of examples where people
> don't feel a given case was recorded properly, but I just can't see it
> being a widespread conspiracy being driven by whoever the theorist's
> favorite bogeyman is.
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 2:31 PM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> To be clear, I was saying there was a conspiracy. Although I will say if
>> you want more of something, you subsidize it, and less of something, you
>> tax it. All I was saying is I saw no reason for an entity, public or
>> private, to falsify 3 out of 3 tests unless there was some financial
>> incentive for doing so. Although anecdotal, that's a hell of a coincidence.
>>
>> Again, economic policy can drive mass decision making, which to some, can
>> seem like a conspiracy, but in actuality is just macroeconomic decisions
>> working down to the micro level. The same reason people buy shit at
>> Wal-Mart for $2 less than somewhere else.
>>
>> Anyway, I just thought it added color to the numbers and is the only
>> actual verifiable inconsistency I have seen.
>>
>> In my opinion, everyone on the planet, save those cannibals on that
>> little island of NZ, are going to get COVID so while slowing it might be a
>> good idea, it lengthens the time we stay in this rut and doesn't prevent
>> the inevitable.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 3:23 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> I make sure all my aliens have an I-9
>>>
>>> *From:* Nate Burke
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:17 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?
>>>
>>> I thought the only time Government was competent was when it was
>>> involving conspiracy?
>>>
>>> IRS looses 1 laptop and millions of peoples data is in the wild, "Gov't
>>> leaks data like a sieve"
>>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

[Lewis Bergman]

He shouldn't. Nobody should. There are idiots everywhere. I don't think
abortion is a great idea, laying aside the whole rights thing. I just don't
think it is a great mental health decision for most mothers. Having said
that, I also think that any doctor that chooses to perform abortions should
be as safe as any other citizen as long as it is legal. Clinics that allow
it should be safe and not blown up.

You have left leaning idiots killing people, right leaning idiots killing
people. I think us idiots in the middle are just too apathetic to go to the
trouble to kill anyone. It just takes far too much effort.

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 10:10 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Why? Why would a proven expert on pandemics have to fear for his family's
> safety?
>
>
> https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEIGp2DZDmBNzMbRqY69yWQwqGQgEKhAIACoHCAow2Nb3CjDivdcCMJ_d7gU?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 7:59 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Please carefully parse what I said.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Aug 5, 2020, at 7:21 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>
>>  Sorry I should call Lent, but ignoring his quoting and spreading the
>> nut case doctor talking about hydrotoxic as the cure for coronavirus cannot
>> be ignored or swept under the rug as "flubing" his advisors or the fiasco
>> of using bleach and suggesting it's investigation for use.   Chuck you are
>> a hero of mine but siding with what is clearly an idiot diminishes you.   I
>> admire you too much to see you defend him, it just hurts.
>>
>> On 8/5/20 3:49 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> I watched the whole interview.  It was not the unmitigated disaster the
>> laft clams.  He is not very good at speaking off the cuff about things that
>> can be refuted, but the things he said were, for the most part, literally
>> true if you parse the sentence.
>>
>> Of course he does not have a filter and doesn’t care who he offends with
>> thoughtless remarks.  But if you take the stuff he said sentence by
>> sentence, word by word there are legit, logical and true explanations.  The
>> problem is he parrots and regurgitates things his advisors tell him but he
>> flubs them up in the retelling.  I actually got a kick out of them talking
>> over each other.  I would have had a bit more respect for the president if
>> I was interviewing them but obviously these two have a history and enjoy
>> the jousting.
>>
>> He was pretty uncaring about John Lewis, but if John Lewis snubbed him at
>> the inauguration and state of the unions, if John Lewis really had a deep
>> dislike for Trump, it is not surprising that Trump didn’t have much
>> personal knowledge of the guy.  When asked if Lewis was impressive (not
>> sure the exact wording) Trump essentially said “I don’t know, others seem
>> to think so”.  That is not Trump saying Lewis was not impressive or
>> discounting his accomplishments, but that is how it was interpreted by some
>> news outlets.
>>
>> It seems we have a bunch of 13 year olds that summarize current events
>> and create headlines.  They lack the ability, or tenacity or authority to
>> attempt to report exactly what has been said, rather they just report the
>> worst possibly way you can take/spin a statement.  On both sides.
>>
>> You see an inflammatory head line, look at the story and see the
>> reactionary summary and then go actually read or view the source and it is
>> never as bad.
>>
>> But if it bleeds it leads.  Not much has changed there.  Newspaper
>> articles 200 years ago were doing the exact same thing to political
>> enemies.  Even worse as far as slander and libel.
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 4:31 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>>
>> Don't start...I'll post Axios interview from most inept president ever.
>> What an embarrassment.
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 4:23 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Antifa laser.
>>>
>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 3:02 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>>>
>>> Person behind holding the object. Debunked
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:55 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
 Looks like a mirage to me.



 bp
 


 On 8/5/2020 1:47 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

 Ha...my friend is analyzing it...he has cool toys and software plus
 expertise.

 On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:02 PM  wrote:

> That’s what covid looks like in the wild.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:52 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>
> Intriguing...not a lens flare
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>

 --
 AF mailing li

Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Carl Peterson]

Lewis, It seems that you are still implying that there is some economic
incentive to report more positive cases.  As far as I can tell, this is not
the case whatsoever.  That may not be your intent, but the structure of
your sentence "I merely quesited about there being some misguided economic
incentive, ..." vs something like " I merely quesited whether there may be
some misguided economic incentive, ..." suggests that the incentive
exists.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 8:26 AM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> 
> WTF don't you people understand? How many times do I have to state I am
> NOT trying to state, imply, or propagate that there is a conspiracy to
> inflate, deflate, or otherwise misreport the numbers?
>
> I'll state again, for I hope the very last time:
> Anecdotal information I have personal knowledge of to be true, that there
> is over reporting in this oh so tiny subset of data. I am sure there is
> misreporting of positive cases as negative. I merely quesited about there
> being some misguided economic incentive, put in place with the best
> intentions but possibly mistakenly incentivizing testing facilities, to
> report positive cases. I have no idea why such a policy would be put in
> place.
>
> Whatever, this whole thing has just driven people crazy.
>
> If you think you are gonna get sick, stay isolated. If your grandmother is
> fragile, she should stay isolated. If you are healthy, or just don't care
> anymore, do whatever the $%@& you want.
> 
> Other than that, it is going to be mighty hot out there today.
>
>
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Josh Luthman]

>implying that there is some economic incentive to report more positive
cases.  As far as I can tell, this is not the case whatsoever.

https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/state-by-state-breakdown-of-federal-aid-per-covid-19-case.html

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:01 AM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> Lewis, It seems that you are still implying that there is some economic
> incentive to report more positive cases.  As far as I can tell, this is not
> the case whatsoever.  That may not be your intent, but the structure of
> your sentence "I merely quesited about there being some misguided economic
> incentive, ..." vs something like " I merely quesited whether there may be
> some misguided economic incentive, ..." suggests that the incentive
> exists.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 8:26 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> 
>> WTF don't you people understand? How many times do I have to state I am
>> NOT trying to state, imply, or propagate that there is a conspiracy to
>> inflate, deflate, or otherwise misreport the numbers?
>>
>> I'll state again, for I hope the very last time:
>> Anecdotal information I have personal knowledge of to be true, that there
>> is over reporting in this oh so tiny subset of data. I am sure there is
>> misreporting of positive cases as negative. I merely quesited about there
>> being some misguided economic incentive, put in place with the best
>> intentions but possibly mistakenly incentivizing testing facilities, to
>> report positive cases. I have no idea why such a policy would be put in
>> place.
>>
>> Whatever, this whole thing has just driven people crazy.
>>
>> If you think you are gonna get sick, stay isolated. If your grandmother
>> is fragile, she should stay isolated. If you are healthy, or just don't
>> care anymore, do whatever the $%@& you want.
>> 
>> Other than that, it is going to be mighty hot out there today.
>>
>>
>> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Carl Peterson]

Josh,

I'm surprised to find you supporting my point.

"The first round of grants will be distributed based on historical share
Medicare revenue, not based on COVID-19 burden. Therefore, hard-hit states
like New York will receive far less per COVID-19 case than most other
states.

HHS said it doled out the first slice of funding based on Medicare revenue
to get support to hospitals as quickly as possible. The agency said
 the next round of grants
"will focus on providers in areas particularly impacted by the COVID-19
outbreak," rural hospitals and other healthcare providers that receive much
of their revenues from Medicaid."

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:03 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> >implying that there is some economic incentive to report more positive
> cases.  As far as I can tell, this is not the case whatsoever.
>
>
> https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/state-by-state-breakdown-of-federal-aid-per-covid-19-case.html
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:01 AM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
>> Lewis, It seems that you are still implying that there is some economic
>> incentive to report more positive cases.  As far as I can tell, this is not
>> the case whatsoever.  That may not be your intent, but the structure of
>> your sentence "I merely quesited about there being some misguided economic
>> incentive, ..." vs something like " I merely quesited whether there may be
>> some misguided economic incentive, ..." suggests that the incentive
>> exists.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 8:26 AM Lewis Bergman 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> 
>>> WTF don't you people understand? How many times do I have to state I am
>>> NOT trying to state, imply, or propagate that there is a conspiracy to
>>> inflate, deflate, or otherwise misreport the numbers?
>>>
>>> I'll state again, for I hope the very last time:
>>> Anecdotal information I have personal knowledge of to be true, that
>>> there is over reporting in this oh so tiny subset of data. I am sure there
>>> is misreporting of positive cases as negative. I merely quesited about
>>> there being some misguided economic incentive, put in place with the best
>>> intentions but possibly mistakenly incentivizing testing facilities, to
>>> report positive cases. I have no idea why such a policy would be put in
>>> place.
>>>
>>> Whatever, this whole thing has just driven people crazy.
>>>
>>> If you think you are gonna get sick, stay isolated. If your grandmother
>>> is fragile, she should stay isolated. If you are healthy, or just don't
>>> care anymore, do whatever the $%@& you want.
>>> 
>>> Other than that, it is going to be mighty hot out there today.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Lewis Bergman]

I didn't suggest an economic incentive existed. As you correctly quoted me,
I asked if there was one. Asking if there is a god does not proclaim that
God exists. It does ask a question to ponder if there is one, and suggests
the possibility of a god.

I didn't proclaim there is an incentive. I was searching for a reasoned
explanation for what I saw. I don't know what you are searching for other
than defending some viewpoint. I am not attacking your view, whatever that
might be, of a COVID number or whatever else you are defending.
Again, whatever. I don't even care about what you, or Chuck, or Jaime think
about COVID. I like them alot, but I just don't care about COVID anymore.
Maybe it still cares about me. What I do care about is someone claiming I
am pushing a conspiracy theory.

The extent of what I said was to suggest a reasonable explanation for a
fact. I could be wrong. I don't think I said "I know there is some
incentive" I posed the question. Are we too fragile to be exposed to
questions?

Lastly, I guess you are an English teacher. I am an accountant by training.
I like to find the economic driver which I believe lies behind most
decisions. I didn't say all, but most. Since I don't have a PHD in English
I won't debate if your method to get my point across is more clear. Seems
pretty similar to me.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:01 AM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> Lewis, It seems that you are still implying that there is some economic
> incentive to report more positive cases.  As far as I can tell, this is not
> the case whatsoever.  That may not be your intent, but the structure of
> your sentence "I merely quesited about there being some misguided economic
> incentive, ..." vs something like " I merely quesited whether there may be
> some misguided economic incentive, ..." suggests that the incentive
> exists.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 8:26 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> 
>> WTF don't you people understand? How many times do I have to state I am
>> NOT trying to state, imply, or propagate that there is a conspiracy to
>> inflate, deflate, or otherwise misreport the numbers?
>>
>> I'll state again, for I hope the very last time:
>> Anecdotal information I have personal knowledge of to be true, that there
>> is over reporting in this oh so tiny subset of data. I am sure there is
>> misreporting of positive cases as negative. I merely quesited about there
>> being some misguided economic incentive, put in place with the best
>> intentions but possibly mistakenly incentivizing testing facilities, to
>> report positive cases. I have no idea why such a policy would be put in
>> place.
>>
>> Whatever, this whole thing has just driven people crazy.
>>
>> If you think you are gonna get sick, stay isolated. If your grandmother
>> is fragile, she should stay isolated. If you are healthy, or just don't
>> care anymore, do whatever the $%@& you want.
>> 
>> Other than that, it is going to be mighty hot out there today.
>>
>>
>> --
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Lewis Bergman]

I wish it was funny but it doesn't matter how they dole out the money.
Several tons of it will be wasted and go somewhere it isn't needed. It is
just the nature of anything large be it government, business, or NGO.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:10 AM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> Josh,
>
> I'm surprised to find you supporting my point.
>
> "The first round of grants will be distributed based on historical share
> Medicare revenue, not based on COVID-19 burden. Therefore, hard-hit states
> like New York will receive far less per COVID-19 case than most other
> states.
>
> HHS said it doled out the first slice of funding based on Medicare revenue
> to get support to hospitals as quickly as possible. The agency said
>  the next round of grants
> "will focus on providers in areas particularly impacted by the COVID-19
> outbreak," rural hospitals and other healthcare providers that receive much
> of their revenues from Medicaid."
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:03 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> >implying that there is some economic incentive to report more positive
>> cases.  As far as I can tell, this is not the case whatsoever.
>>
>>
>> https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/state-by-state-breakdown-of-federal-aid-per-covid-19-case.html
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:01 AM Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lewis, It seems that you are still implying that there is some economic
>>> incentive to report more positive cases.  As far as I can tell, this is not
>>> the case whatsoever.  That may not be your intent, but the structure of
>>> your sentence "I merely quesited about there being some misguided economic
>>> incentive, ..." vs something like " I merely quesited whether there may be
>>> some misguided economic incentive, ..." suggests that the incentive
>>> exists.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 8:26 AM Lewis Bergman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 
 WTF don't you people understand? How many times do I have to state I am
 NOT trying to state, imply, or propagate that there is a conspiracy to
 inflate, deflate, or otherwise misreport the numbers?

 I'll state again, for I hope the very last time:
 Anecdotal information I have personal knowledge of to be true, that
 there is over reporting in this oh so tiny subset of data. I am sure there
 is misreporting of positive cases as negative. I merely quesited about
 there being some misguided economic incentive, put in place with the best
 intentions but possibly mistakenly incentivizing testing facilities, to
 report positive cases. I have no idea why such a policy would be put in
 place.

 Whatever, this whole thing has just driven people crazy.

 If you think you are gonna get sick, stay isolated. If your grandmother
 is fragile, she should stay isolated. If you are healthy, or just don't
 care anymore, do whatever the $%@& you want.
 
 Other than that, it is going to be mighty hot out there today.


 --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Carl Peterson]

IMHO there should be economic incentive to identify and isolate as many
cases as possible.  There should also be economic incentives for people who
test positive to isolate.  eg if you test positive, do contact tracing and
isolate at home for two weeks you get paid 2K a week to do it and your
employer has to give you the time off (paid or unpaid at their
discretion).  Of course there will be people that work the system but in
the big picture who cares?  Especially at the individual level.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:23 AM Lewis Bergman 
wrote:

> I wish it was funny but it doesn't matter how they dole out the money.
> Several tons of it will be wasted and go somewhere it isn't needed. It is
> just the nature of anything large be it government, business, or NGO.
>
>
>
-- 
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[AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[chuck]

But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:

People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to prevent those 
getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are $496/week max.  That 
is Utah.  
So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in the 
$17/hour range gross.

Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of that?  
$1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps $80K gross?

So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home, why 
would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been freaking out 
about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an incentive to not 
try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone work if they get 
that much for drinking beer and playing video games?  

Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?

I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He said he 
didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time job.  Never 
asked me for money.  -- 
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[AFMUG] a real af question

[chuck]

I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both ends 
with an SFP.  
48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix but I 
would like to hear opinions.  -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[David Coudron]

I think that is accurate, and my fear is the we haven’t seen the economic 
impact of the Covid situation because everyone is still making an equivalent of 
$80K.   When the extra bump in unemployment finally runs out (we can’t keep 
paying the extra bump forever) we will see folks stop spending money and the 
real pressure of high unemployment on the economy.   Just my guess though, 
someone probably has the numbers figured out somewhere.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:

People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to prevent those 
getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are $496/week max.  That 
is Utah.
So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in the 
$17/hour range gross.

Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of that?  
$1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps $80K gross?

So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home, why 
would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been freaking out 
about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an incentive to not 
try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone work if they get 
that much for drinking beer and playing video games?

Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?

I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He said he 
didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time job.  Never 
asked me for money.
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[Mark Radabaugh]

At least in Ohio you can elect to have taxes taken out of your unemployment 
check, or not.   Care to take a guess what the vast majority choose?

Mark

> On Aug 6, 2020, at 11:10 AM, Carl Peterson  wrote:
> 
> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal level.  
> State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it isn't taxed?  
> 
> Yale did a study on this.  
> 
> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
> (2,000K)
>  
> 
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
> wrote:
> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
>  
> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to prevent 
> those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are $496/week 
> max.  That is Utah. 
> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in the 
> $17/hour range gross.
>  
> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of that? 
>  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps $80K 
> gross?
>  
> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home, why 
> would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been freaking 
> out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an incentive to 
> not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone work if they 
> get that much for drinking beer and playing video games? 
>  
> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
>  
> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He said 
> he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time job.  
> Never asked me for money. 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[Carl Peterson]

I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more and
less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar rates.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
> level.  State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it isn't
> taxed?
>
> Yale did a study on this.
>
> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
> (2,000K)
>
> 
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
>
>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
>>
>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to prevent
>> those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are $496/week
>> max.  That is Utah.
>> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in
>> the $17/hour range gross.
>>
>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of
>> that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps
>> $80K gross?
>>
>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home,
>> why would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been
>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an
>> incentive to not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone
>> work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video games?
>>
>> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
>>
>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He
>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time
>> job.  Never asked me for money.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[chuck]

Still taxed or not, that is a very sweet deal in my opinion.  You could save up 
enough to not work for several years at that rate.  This assumes you live in a 
van down by the river and eat ramen at every meal.  

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by state 
etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more and less then 
they used to and it seems they return to work at similar rates.  

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson  
wrote:

  Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal level.  
State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it isn't taxed?  

  Yale did a study on this.  

  CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
  (2,000K)

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:

But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:

People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to prevent 
those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are $496/week max. 
 That is Utah.  
So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in the 
$17/hour range gross.

Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of 
that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps 
$80K gross?

So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home, why 
would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been freaking out 
about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an incentive to not 
try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone work if they get 
that much for drinking beer and playing video games?  

Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?

I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He said 
he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time job.  Never 
asked me for money.  
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Lewis Bergman]

The only fallacy with that is again, if you want more of
something subsidize it. I believe at $2k a week you are giving people an
incentive to commit fraud. If you pay the tester for testing only, there is
no incentive other than to actually perform a test instead of just claiming
they did (which is what I think the mostly likely explanation for what I
described). So to be clear, if you go the paperwork on someone and have all
the info you need to get paid, other than the little thing of actually
having the person there to perform the test on, you have an economic
incentive to say you processed the test. And of course if you are going to
make something up, say they are positive since they might have to come back
and get tested again to make sure depending on the type of test you
performed initially.

Anyway Carl, My sense of economics tells me that if you pay people who
perform testing more if the test is positive than negative and if you pay
people a lot more if they do test positive, you will definitely have a lot
more positive results, some of which are going to be fraudulent. No idea
how many. In some places that would be zero. In some, it would be a large
number. Statistics would eventually weed that out after the fact. By then,
the horse is already out of the barn and the money's gone. I pay a lot of
taxes so I actually care where that money goes. Some may not.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:33 AM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> IMHO there should be economic incentive to identify and isolate as many
> cases as possible.  There should also be economic incentives for people who
> test positive to isolate.  eg if you test positive, do contact tracing and
> isolate at home for two weeks you get paid 2K a week to do it and your
> employer has to give you the time off (paid or unpaid at their
> discretion).  Of course there will be people that work the system but in
> the big picture who cares?  Especially at the individual level.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:23 AM Lewis Bergman 
> wrote:
>
>> I wish it was funny but it doesn't matter how they dole out the money.
>> Several tons of it will be wasted and go somewhere it isn't needed. It is
>> just the nature of anything large be it government, business, or NGO.
>>
>>
>> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
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325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Lewis Bergman]

People get stuck on a story. I do the same. There was a time when we didn't
have enough testing when health officials were telling you to not get
tested unless you were symptomatic. Most places now have plenty of capacity
so really, we should all just go get tested.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> This could be part of it.
>
> PDF of AP story attached.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 8/4/2020 7:56 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Not wanting to jinx this but it looks promising.
> [image: image]
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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325-439-0533 Cell
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Re: [AFMUG] Radio Mobile help

[Jay Weekley]

It's unpredictable.  I am getting the "failed to connect the internet" 
when it's loading.


Colin Stanners wrote:

Could you take 2 screenshots, one of when it's working, one when it's not?

Is all your landcover data cached/downloaded to your PC so that it 
doesn't need to re-download every time, possibly failing if the server 
is busy?


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 9:29 AM Jay Weekley > wrote:


Do any Radio Mobile experts know why I sometimes have tree
coverage when I use the radio link option and sometimes I don't? 
We have at least one other employee that has this problem.



-- 
*Jay Weekley*

*Cyber Broadband
*



Virus-free. www.avg.com




<#m_3527371146081708231_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
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*

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Every state is different, and many states have already gone off
  the end of unemployment. Add to that, that a lot of people
  couldn't get unemployment and/or are still waiting for their first
  check. I don't commit the different state unemployment rules to
  memory, but some states (Missouri? Florida?) have very short
  duration for unemployment, and their weekly/monthly payment rate
  is way below that.


bp



On 8/6/2020 8:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Still taxed or not, that is a very sweet deal in my
opinion.  You could save up enough to not work for several
years at that rate.  This assumes you live in a van down by
the river and eat ramen at every meal.  
  

   
  
From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I
  should probably not post this
  

 
  
  

  I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on
it is that since UI varies by state etc you can compare
return to work rates for people making more and less
then they used to and it seems they return to work at
similar rates.  
   
  
On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at
  10:10 AM Carl Peterson 
  wrote:


  
Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary
  income at the federal level.  State by state
  varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it
  isn't taxed?  
 
Yale did a study on this.  
 

CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
(2,000K)
  
 

  On Thu, Aug 6,
2020 at 9:59 AM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  But at the risk of starting another
brush fire...  but I want to know:
   
  People laid of in Utah get
unemployment benefits.  I work hard to
prevent those getting charged to me. 
But I know that the rates paid are
$496/week max.  That is Utah.  
  So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent
to much more gross.  Probably in the
$17/hour range gross.
   
  Then if I understand it right, the
feds were adding $600/week on top of
that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual
rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps
$80K gross?
   
  So a laid off bartender gets the
equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home,
why would they want to work?  The press
and libs in congress have been freaking
out about the conservatives saying the
fat benefit package is an incentive to
not try to work.  I believe that to be
true.  Why would anyone work if they get
that much for drinking beer and playing
video games?  
   
  Do I have this right?  Does the fed
benefit add to the state benefit?
   
  I have a son that lived on
$1000/month for years while in college. 
He said he didn’t feel the pinch too
much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time
job.  Never asked me for money.  

  

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Re: [AFMUG] Radio Mobile help

[Jay Weekley]

Yep.  It's checked and green.

Brian Webster wrote:


You might have the land cover turned on or off. Go to options -> 
Toolbar and this window shows up, check the landcover option and then 
it should show green when active on the toolbar, red when off.


Landcover on:

Landcover off:

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jay Weekley
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 10:28 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Radio Mobile help

Do any Radio Mobile experts know why I sometimes have tree coverage 
when I use the radio link option and sometimes I don't?  We have at 
least one other employee that has this problem.


--
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*





Virus-free. www.avg.com 
 







--
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*Cyber Broadband
*

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[Lewis Bergman]

A lot of this has to do with the employer as well right?

Another anecdotal story so be patient but it is a real one. My wife has a
little part time job at a jewelry store called James Avery. They sell cheap
silver stuff I think. She likes it and it only costs me about $100 a month
for her to work there. When retail was shut down they eventually laid
everyone off. Supposedly they also file unemployment for her. No idea if
she ever got it but they said they did. I don't think she ever got the $600
a week or whatever but again, I have no idea. After a few weeks they opened
and asked her to come back which she did. I would assume that if she had
refused (so she could collect her extra $600 a week from the feds) that is
a valid reason to suspend her unemployment and JA would have challenged
that. I know I would have.

A job offered that you used to perform and refused is a valid reason to
suspend benefits. So once your benefit is suspended what do you do? Go back
to work. If you worked for me, you would have to go get a job somewhere
else because I am not hiring you back but you still have to go find a job
somewhere or your lifestyle starts to rapidly change.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:16 AM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more and
> less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar rates.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
>> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
>> level.  State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it isn't
>> taxed?
>>
>> Yale did a study on this.
>>
>> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
>> (2,000K)
>>
>> 
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
>>>
>>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to
>>> prevent those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are
>>> $496/week max.  That is Utah.
>>> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in
>>> the $17/hour range gross.
>>>
>>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of
>>> that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps
>>> $80K gross?
>>>
>>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home,
>>> why would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been
>>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an
>>> incentive to not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone
>>> work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video games?
>>>
>>> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
>>>
>>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He
>>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time
>>> job.  Never asked me for money.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[Lewis Bergman]

The rules are different in every state. I bet it drives those national
companies crazy or costs them a load to keep up with the rules in software.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:28 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Every state is different, and many states have already gone off the end of
> unemployment. Add to that, that a lot of people couldn't get unemployment
> and/or are still waiting for their first check. I don't commit the
> different state unemployment rules to memory, but some states (Missouri?
> Florida?) have very short duration for unemployment, and their
> weekly/monthly payment rate is way below that.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 8/6/2020 8:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Still taxed or not, that is a very sweet deal in my opinion.  You could
> save up enough to not work for several years at that rate.  This assumes
> you live in a van down by the river and eat ramen at every meal.
>
> *From:* Carl Peterson
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:15 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this
>
> I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more and
> less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar rates.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson 
> wrote:
>
>> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
>> level.  State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it isn't
>> taxed?
>>
>> Yale did a study on this.
>>
>> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
>> (2,000K)
>>
>> 
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
>>>
>>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to
>>> prevent those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid are
>>> $496/week max.  That is Utah.
>>> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in
>>> the $17/hour range gross.
>>>
>>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of
>>> that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to perhaps
>>> $80K gross?
>>>
>>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home,
>>> why would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been
>>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is an
>>> incentive to not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would anyone
>>> work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video games?
>>>
>>> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
>>>
>>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He
>>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part time
>>> job.  Never asked me for money.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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>


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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Lewis Bergman]

We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make
industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:

> I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both
> ends with an SFP.
> 48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix
> but I would like to hear opinions.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[chuck]

Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end are a 
bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and the media 
converter at the other.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make 
industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:

  I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both ends 
with an SFP.  
  48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix but 
I would like to hear opinions.  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 

Lewis Bergman 
325-439-0533 Cell



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[Larry Smith]

And to stir the pot a little:

Add to all this the government restriction on evictions,
which I understand is also ending soon, so those that
squandered their extra money are going to be hauling
that 90" tv around in the back of their civic.

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Thu August 6 2020 10:33, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> A lot of this has to do with the employer as well right?
>
> Another anecdotal story so be patient but it is a real one. My wife has a
> little part time job at a jewelry store called James Avery. They sell cheap
> silver stuff I think. She likes it and it only costs me about $100 a month
> for her to work there. When retail was shut down they eventually laid
> everyone off. Supposedly they also file unemployment for her. No idea if
> she ever got it but they said they did. I don't think she ever got the $600
> a week or whatever but again, I have no idea. After a few weeks they opened
> and asked her to come back which she did. I would assume that if she had
> refused (so she could collect her extra $600 a week from the feds) that is
> a valid reason to suspend her unemployment and JA would have challenged
> that. I know I would have.
>
> A job offered that you used to perform and refused is a valid reason to
> suspend benefits. So once your benefit is suspended what do you do? Go back
> to work. If you worked for me, you would have to go get a job somewhere
> else because I am not hiring you back but you still have to go find a job
> somewhere or your lifestyle starts to rapidly change.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:16 AM Carl Peterson 
>
> wrote:
> > I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> > state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more and
> > less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar rates.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson
> > 
> >
> > wrote:
> >> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
> >> level.  State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it
> >> isn't taxed?
> >>
> >> Yale did a study on this.
> >>
> >> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
> >> (2,000K)
> >>
> >>  >>=msg-a:r4257579253290864261&view=att&disp=safe&realattid=f_kdixrue20>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
> >>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
> >>>
> >>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to
> >>> prevent those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid
> >>> are $496/week max.  That is Utah.
> >>> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in
> >>> the $17/hour range gross.
> >>>
> >>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top of
> >>> that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to
> >>> perhaps $80K gross?
> >>>
> >>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at home,
> >>> why would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been
> >>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is
> >>> an incentive to not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why would
> >>> anyone work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video
> >>> games?
> >>>
> >>> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
> >>>
> >>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He
> >>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part
> >>> time job.  Never asked me for money.
> >>> --
> >>> AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[chuck]

Remember, Mad Max happens in 2021...

-Original Message- 
From: Larry Smith

Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

And to stir the pot a little:

Add to all this the government restriction on evictions,
which I understand is also ending soon, so those that
squandered their extra money are going to be hauling
that 90" tv around in the back of their civic.

--
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Thu August 6 2020 10:33, Lewis Bergman wrote:

A lot of this has to do with the employer as well right?

Another anecdotal story so be patient but it is a real one. My wife has a
little part time job at a jewelry store called James Avery. They sell 
cheap

silver stuff I think. She likes it and it only costs me about $100 a month
for her to work there. When retail was shut down they eventually laid
everyone off. Supposedly they also file unemployment for her. No idea if
she ever got it but they said they did. I don't think she ever got the 
$600
a week or whatever but again, I have no idea. After a few weeks they 
opened

and asked her to come back which she did. I would assume that if she had
refused (so she could collect her extra $600 a week from the feds) that is
a valid reason to suspend her unemployment and JA would have challenged
that. I know I would have.

A job offered that you used to perform and refused is a valid reason to
suspend benefits. So once your benefit is suspended what do you do? Go 
back

to work. If you worked for me, you would have to go get a job somewhere
else because I am not hiring you back but you still have to go find a job
somewhere or your lifestyle starts to rapidly change.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:16 AM Carl Peterson 

wrote:
> I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more 
> and
> less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar 
> rates.

>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson
> 
>
> wrote:
>> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
>> level.  State by state varies.  I think your numbers are assuming it
>> isn't taxed?
>>
>> Yale did a study on this.
>>
>> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
>> (2,000K)
>>
>> >=msg-a:r4257579253290864261&view=att&disp=safe&realattid=f_kdixrue20>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
>>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire...  but I want to know:
>>>
>>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits.  I work hard to
>>> prevent those getting charged to me.  But I know that the rates paid
>>> are $496/week max.  That is Utah.
>>> So $12.40/hour take home.  Equivalent to much more gross.  Probably in
>>> the $17/hour range gross.
>>>
>>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top 
>>> of

>>> that?  $1096/week?  $56,992 annual rate.  Take home.  Equivalent to
>>> perhaps $80K gross?
>>>
>>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at 
>>> home,

>>> why would they want to work?  The press and libs in congress have been
>>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is
>>> an incentive to not try to work.  I believe that to be true.  Why 
>>> would

>>> anyone work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video
>>> games?
>>>
>>> Do I have this right?  Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
>>>
>>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college.  He
>>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much.  Had roommates.  Had a part
>>> time job.  Never asked me for money.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Carl Peterson]

I need a vehicle to drive between two offices on paved roads.  Diesel
fuel.  I need recommendations.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:

> I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both
> ends with an SFP.
> 48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix
> but I would like to hear opinions.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Nate Burke]

What are your latency requirements, along with throughput, and circuit 
distance.


On 8/6/2020 11:12 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:
I need a vehicle to drive between two offices on paved roads.  Diesel 
fuel.  I need recommendations.


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM > wrote:


I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch
on both ends with an SFP.
48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do
Netonix but I would like to hear opinions.
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com







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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Lewis Bergman]

They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:

> Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end
> are a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and
> the media converter at the other.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>
> We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make
> industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:
>
>> I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both
>> ends with an SFP.
>> 48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix
>> but I would like to hear opinions.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[chuck]

It is like 500’
Anything will work.  Too may things to choose from.  That is my problem.  

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:13 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

What are your latency requirements, along with throughput, and circuit 
distance.  


On 8/6/2020 11:12 AM, Carl Peterson wrote:

  I need a vehicle to drive between two offices on paved roads.  Diesel fuel.  
I need recommendations.  

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:

I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both 
ends with an SFP.  
48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix 
but I would like to hear opinions.  
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




   






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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[chuck]

Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had good 
luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look Netonix 
may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but most of them 
don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both ends so I can do AC 
but I just didn’t want to.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:

  Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end are a 
bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and the media 
converter at the other.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

  We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make 
industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:

I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both 
ends with an SFP.  
48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix 
but I would like to hear opinions.  
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



  -- 

  Lewis Bergman 
  325-439-0533 Cell


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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[TJ Trout]

Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off list!

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM  wrote:

> Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had
> good luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look
> Netonix may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but
> most of them don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both
> ends so I can do AC but I just didn’t want to.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>
> They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end
>> are a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and
>> the media converter at the other.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>
>> We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make
>> industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both
>>> ends with an SFP.
>>> 48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix
>>> but I would like to hear opinions.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lewis Bergman
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[David Coudron]

Netonix should work, but are more useful when you need to power a bunch of 
other stuff.   Otherwise Mikrotik would work for DC powered, managed switch.  
They would be less money.  If you already have Mikrotik stuff, it is an easy 
add, but if you don’t have Mikrotik, you might not want to bring their stuff in 
for this.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 11:39 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had good 
luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look Netonix 
may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but most of them 
don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both ends so I can do AC 
but I just didn’t want to.

From: Lewis Bergman
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end are a 
bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and the media 
converter at the other.

From: Lewis Bergman
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make 
industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both ends 
with an SFP.
48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix but I 
would like to hear opinions.
--
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325-439-0533 Cell

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[James Howard]

An Iphone9?  Are you saying aliens only communicate with Apple devices?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 3:22 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

I make sure all my aliens have an I-9

From: Nate Burke
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 2:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

I thought the only time Government was competent was when it was involving 
conspiracy?

IRS looses 1 laptop and millions of peoples data is in the wild, "Gov't leaks 
data like a sieve"

1000's of people in and out of Area51, and not a single picture of the aliens?  
"Gov't has been covering it up for 60 years"
On 8/5/2020 2:42 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Conspiracy theories lose credibility when the number of participants exceed 5 
or 10 people. You're talking about a conspiracy involving 5 or 6 thousand 
hospitals in 50 states (plus all the territories), with who knows how many 
people involved at each hospital.



bp




On 8/5/2020 10:44 AM, justsumname wrote:
There is plenty of financial and political incentive for the numbers to be as 
awful as they can almost justify them to be.

My governor publishes a report every day.   The number in my county keeps going 
up, never down.   So the same guy who got it early and died, does he still 
count?   How about the ones who got it and 'recovered' ?   What about the 
people who tested only for the antibody?   I guess they count as 'got it', too.

Anything goes, no honesty or transparency required.   And the more dead people, 
the better.
--


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 12:05 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
I see young kids in places like stores wearing masks and they seem quite OK 
with it, like having a backpack or a hat, this is what we do, no big deal go 
ahead and play or shop or whatever we are here for.  I am reminded of my 
observation that people who need glasses from a young age tolerate it a lot 
better than those of us who don’t need glasses until we turn 50.

On the other hand, there are some photos circulating of high school reopening 
in states like Georgia that are quite frightening, I hope this is just social 
media taking things out of context.  I understand at that age the peer pressure 
to not be uncool, but if this is really going on all over the place, we have an 
experiment going on and may not like the results.  Maybe we will discover that 
teenagers don’t transmit the virus, but so far, magical thinking hasn’t worked 
out so good.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 10:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

But there should be a E ticket for the special people...

From: Bill Prince
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 9:19 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?


I say treat it like triage. Healthcare workers first, then essential workers, 
then people in assisted care and prisons.

bp




On 8/5/2020 8:00 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I see these articles debating who should get a vaccine first, some arguing 
young people should get it because they have more years ahead of them, 
basically let the old people die.  But if young people keep acting like idiots, 
maybe they don’t have that many years after all.  If the virus doesn’t get 
them, some other stupid stunt will.  Plus they will have enjoyed their short 
lives, with all the partying.

Grumble, grumble.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Nate Burke
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 9:19 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

Illinois 7 day positive results average went from 4% positive to 3.9% positive 
yesterday.  So I guess that's good news.  But reports are a majority of new 
cases are from college age kids coming back to campuses and partying.
On 8/4/2020 10:57 AM, Nate Burke wrote:
When I was seeing my Primary doc for a physical, he said that he feels the only 
numbers worth looking at are % of positive tests, and Deaths/infections.  The 
total numbers don't mean anything.

Here in Illinois, we're sitting at ~4% positive for the last week, but 4.6% 
positive yesterday, we were at 2.8% positive a month ago.  I think some of the 
'bad' states are upwards of 10% positive.

On 8/4/2020 10:29 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Yeahbut it isn’t looking terrific yet.  It has flattened.

From: Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 9:25 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

I think the most important chart is deaths per population


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
[aeronet-logo]

[inc500]

[fb-logo]

[insta-logo]<

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[James Howard]

Yikes.  Gotta remember to stay away from Australia next year!

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 11:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

Remember, Mad Max happens in 2021...

-Original Message-
From: Larry Smith
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:40 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

And to stir the pot a little:

Add to all this the government restriction on evictions,
which I understand is also ending soon, so those that
squandered their extra money are going to be hauling
that 90" tv around in the back of their civic.

--
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Thu August 6 2020 10:33, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> A lot of this has to do with the employer as well right?
>
> Another anecdotal story so be patient but it is a real one. My wife has a
> little part time job at a jewelry store called James Avery. They sell
> cheap
> silver stuff I think. She likes it and it only costs me about $100 a month
> for her to work there. When retail was shut down they eventually laid
> everyone off. Supposedly they also file unemployment for her. No idea if
> she ever got it but they said they did. I don't think she ever got the
> $600
> a week or whatever but again, I have no idea. After a few weeks they
> opened
> and asked her to come back which she did. I would assume that if she had
> refused (so she could collect her extra $600 a week from the feds) that is
> a valid reason to suspend her unemployment and JA would have challenged
> that. I know I would have.
>
> A job offered that you used to perform and refused is a valid reason to
> suspend benefits. So once your benefit is suspended what do you do? Go
> back
> to work. If you worked for me, you would have to go get a job somewhere
> else because I am not hiring you back but you still have to go find a job
> somewhere or your lifestyle starts to rapidly change.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:16 AM Carl Peterson 
> 
>
> wrote:
> > I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> > state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more
> > and
> > less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar
> > rates.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson
> > 
> >
> > wrote:
> >> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
> >> level. State by state varies. I think your numbers are assuming it
> >> isn't taxed?
> >>
> >> Yale did a study on this.
> >>
> >> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
> >> (2,000K)
> >>
> >>  >>=msg-a:r4257579253290864261&view=att&disp=safe&realattid=f_kdixrue20>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM 
> >>  wrote:
> >>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire... but I want to know:
> >>>
> >>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits. I work hard to
> >>> prevent those getting charged to me. But I know that the rates paid
> >>> are $496/week max. That is Utah.
> >>> So $12.40/hour take home. Equivalent to much more gross. Probably in
> >>> the $17/hour range gross.
> >>>
> >>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top
> >>> of
> >>> that? $1096/week? $56,992 annual rate. Take home. Equivalent to
> >>> perhaps $80K gross?
> >>>
> >>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at
> >>> home,
> >>> why would they want to work? The press and libs in congress have been
> >>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package is
> >>> an incentive to not try to work. I believe that to be true. Why
> >>> would
> >>> anyone work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video
> >>> games?
> >>>
> >>> Do I have this right? Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
> >>>
> >>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college. He
> >>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much. Had roommates. Had a part
> >>> time job. Never asked me for money.
> >>> --
> >>> AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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To: 
ja...@litewire.net

Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[chuck]

Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two boxes.  Now, what goes on the end of 
the fiber?



From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off list!

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM  wrote:

  Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had good 
luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look Netonix 
may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but most of them 
don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both ends so I can do AC 
but I just didn’t want to.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

  They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:

Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end are 
a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and the 
media converter at the other.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make 
industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:

  I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both 
ends with an SFP.  
  48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix 
but I would like to hear opinions.  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 

Lewis Bergman 
325-439-0533 Cell


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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Fiber optic transceivers. 

What's on the other side of the transceivers? One device, two
  devices, or more?


bp



On 8/6/2020 11:57 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two boxes.  Now,
what goes on the end of the fiber?
   
   
  

   
  
From: TJ
Trout 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
  

 
  
  
Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off
  list!
 

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at
9:39 AM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the
FS things OK.  I have had good luck with UBNT. 
Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second
look Netonix may not be the best option.  I
would really like 48 vdc power but most of them
don’t have that option.  I have sinewave
inverters at both ends so I can do AC but I just
didn’t want to.  
  

   
  
From: Lewis Bergman

Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020
  10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af
  question
  

 
  
  
They make them in a wide variety of
  capacity and port configs.
 

  On Thu, Aug
6, 2020, 10:41 AM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  Yeah, I guess I could do media
converters.  But the switches on one
end are a bit old.  I suppose I
could put a 48 port POE with SFP on
one end and the media converter at
the other.  
  

   
  
From: Lewis
Bergman 
Sent: Thursday,
  August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG]
  a real af question
  

 
  
  
We always used
  Plantronics. They may be out of
  favor now but they make industrial
  switches with DIN mounts that are
  as small as two ports.
 

  On
Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM

wrote:
  
  

  

  I need to connect two
offices with fiber. 
Going to put a switch on
both ends with an SFP. 
  
   

Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[chuck]

Multiple devices.  So probably just another UBNT switch and connect the two 
switches with SFPs.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:02 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

Fiber optic transceivers. 


What's on the other side of the transceivers? One device, two devices, or more?



bp


On 8/6/2020 11:57 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two boxes.  Now, what goes on the end 
of the fiber?



  From: TJ Trout 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

  Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off list!

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM  wrote:

Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had 
good luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look 
Netonix may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but most 
of them don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both ends so I 
can do AC but I just didn’t want to.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:

  Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end 
are a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and the 
media converter at the other.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

  We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make 
industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:

I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on 
both ends with an SFP.  
48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do 
Netonix but I would like to hear opinions.  
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



  -- 

  Lewis Bergman 
  325-439-0533 Cell

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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Carl Peterson]

I think what people are getting at here is what else do you want to do with
the switches?

1G?  10G?  100G SFP interfaces? Quantity of each you are looking for.
1G Copper port count?
POE for cameras etc?  if so, what type.


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 1:58 PM  wrote:

> Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two boxes.  Now, what goes on the
> end of the fiber?
>
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>
> Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off list!
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM  wrote:
>
>> Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had
>> good luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look
>> Netonix may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but
>> most of them don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both
>> ends so I can do AC but I just didn’t want to.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>
>> They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end
>>> are a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and
>>> the media converter at the other.
>>>
>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>>
>>> We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make
>>> industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:
>>>
 I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on
 both ends with an SFP.
 48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do
 Netonix but I would like to hear opinions.
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lewis Bergman
>>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 

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*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707
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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Bill Prince]

  
  
That would probably work. Any switch with an SFP would work. If
  you don't have an SFP-equipped switch, then you might use a media
  converter. I have done both, depending.


bp



On 8/6/2020 12:06 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Multiple devices.  So probably just another UBNT switch
and connect the two switches with SFPs.  
  

   
  
From: Bill
Prince 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:02 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
  

 
  
  
Fiber optic transceivers. 

What's on the other side of the transceivers? One device,
  two devices, or more?
 
bp



On 8/6/2020 11:57 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  

  Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two
boxes.  Now, what goes on the end of the fiber?
   
   
  

   
  
From: TJ
Trout 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56
  AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af
  question
  

 
  
  
Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit
  me off list!
 

  On Thu, Aug 6,
2020 at 9:39 AM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  Yeahbut, what would be a good brand. 
Are the FS things OK.  I have had good
luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to
pay for Cisco.  On second look Netonix
may not be the best option.  I would
really like 48 vdc power but most of
them don’t have that option.  I have
sinewave inverters at both ends so I can
do AC but I just didn’t want to.  
  

   
  
From: Lewis
Bergman 
Sent: Thursday, August
  6, 2020 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a
  real af question
  

 
  
  
They make them in a wide variety of
  capacity and port configs.
 

  On
Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  Yeah, I guess I could do
media converters.  But the
switches on one end are a
bit old.  I suppose I could
put a 48 port POE with SFP
on one end and the media
converter at the other.  
  

   
  
From: Lewis
Bergman 
Sent:
  Thursday, August 6,

Re: [AFMUG] Radio Mobile help

[Brian Webster]

Do the merge pictures/landcover step. You can select different ftp servers
if you are having problems. Also you might want to right click and run as
administrator when you run Radio Mobile, sometimes that would get around
cannot connect message if you did indeed have connectivity. Remember to get
your options set to save a local copy of the file. For your region create a
large zoomed out map of areas you think you will be working in all of the
time, let the program download all the clutter files and you will always
have them on your local drive. A long time ago I built up a full hard drive
of the data. It doesn't change enough to think you always need to download a
fresh copy from the net. The terrain and clutter files haven't changed in
quite a few years now.

Thank you,
Brian Webster
www.wirelessmapping.com


-Original Message-
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jay Weekley
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 11:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Radio Mobile help

Yep.  It's checked and green.

Brian Webster wrote:
>
> You might have the land cover turned on or off. Go to options -> 
> Toolbar and this window shows up, check the landcover option and then 
> it should show green when active on the toolbar, red when off.
>
> Landcover on:
>
> Landcover off:
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
> *From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Jay Weekley
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 10:28 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Radio Mobile help
>
> Do any Radio Mobile experts know why I sometimes have tree coverage 
> when I use the radio link option and sometimes I don't?  We have at 
> least one other employee that has this problem.
>
> -- 
> *Jay Weekley*
> *Cyber Broadband
> *
>
>

>
>   
>
> Virus-free. www.avg.com 
>
 
>
>
>
>

-- 
*Jay Weekley*
*Cyber Broadband
*

-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
https://www.avg.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this

[Cameron Crum]

In TX if their job opens back up and they refuse to go back, they lose
unemployment. But yes, the $600 is on top of the regular unemployment they
get from the state.

Cameron

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 1:05 PM James Howard  wrote:

> Yikes.  Gotta remember to stay away from Australia next year!
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 11:05 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this
>
>
>
> Remember, Mad Max happens in 2021...
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Larry Smith
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:40 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Political and I should probably not post this
>
> And to stir the pot a little:
>
> Add to all this the government restriction on evictions,
> which I understand is also ending soon, so those that
> squandered their extra money are going to be hauling
> that 90" tv around in the back of their civic.
>
> --
> Larry Smith
> lesm...@ecsis.net
>
> On Thu August 6 2020 10:33, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> > A lot of this has to do with the employer as well right?
> >
> > Another anecdotal story so be patient but it is a real one. My wife has a
> > little part time job at a jewelry store called James Avery. They sell
> > cheap
> > silver stuff I think. She likes it and it only costs me about $100 a
> month
> > for her to work there. When retail was shut down they eventually laid
> > everyone off. Supposedly they also file unemployment for her. No idea if
> > she ever got it but they said they did. I don't think she ever got the
> > $600
> > a week or whatever but again, I have no idea. After a few weeks they
> > opened
> > and asked her to come back which she did. I would assume that if she had
> > refused (so she could collect her extra $600 a week from the feds) that
> is
> > a valid reason to suspend her unemployment and JA would have challenged
> > that. I know I would have.
> >
> > A job offered that you used to perform and refused is a valid reason to
> > suspend benefits. So once your benefit is suspended what do you do? Go
> > back
> > to work. If you worked for me, you would have to go get a job somewhere
> > else because I am not hiring you back but you still have to go find a job
> > somewhere or your lifestyle starts to rapidly change.
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:16 AM Carl Peterson <
> cpeter...@portnetworks.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> > > I just skimmed it but I think the TLDR on it is that since UI varies by
> > > state etc you can compare return to work rates for people making more
> > > and
> > > less then they used to and it seems they return to work at similar
> > > rates.
> > >
> > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson
> > > 
> > >
> > > wrote:
> > >> Pretty sure unemployment is taxed like ordinary income at the federal
> > >> level. State by state varies. I think your numbers are assuming it
> > >> isn't taxed?
> > >>
> > >> Yale did a study on this.
> > >>
> > >> CARES-UI_identification_vF(1).pdf
> > >> (2,000K)
> > >>
> > >> <
> https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0?ui=2&ik=65db33fe01&attid=0.1&permmsgid
> > >>=msg-a:r4257579253290864261&view=att&disp=safe&realattid=f_kdixrue20>
> > >>
> > >> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:59 AM  wrote:
> > >>> But at the risk of starting another brush fire... but I want to know:
> > >>>
> > >>> People laid of in Utah get unemployment benefits. I work hard to
> > >>> prevent those getting charged to me. But I know that the rates paid
> > >>> are $496/week max. That is Utah.
> > >>> So $12.40/hour take home. Equivalent to much more gross. Probably in
> > >>> the $17/hour range gross.
> > >>>
> > >>> Then if I understand it right, the feds were adding $600/week on top
> > >>> of
> > >>> that? $1096/week? $56,992 annual rate. Take home. Equivalent to
> > >>> perhaps $80K gross?
> > >>>
> > >>> So a laid off bartender gets the equivalent of $40/hour to sit at
> > >>> home,
> > >>> why would they want to work? The press and libs in congress have been
> > >>> freaking out about the conservatives saying the fat benefit package
> is
> > >>> an incentive to not try to work. I believe that to be true. Why
> > >>> would
> > >>> anyone work if they get that much for drinking beer and playing video
> > >>> games?
> > >>>
> > >>> Do I have this right? Does the fed benefit add to the state benefit?
> > >>>
> > >>> I have a son that lived on $1000/month for years while in college. He
> > >>> said he didn’t feel the pinch too much. Had roommates. Had a part
> > >>> time job. Never asked me for money.
> > >>> --
> > >>> AF mailing list
> > >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> > >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> > >
> > > --
> > > AF mailing list
> > > AF@af.afmug.com
> > > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list

Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

[Bill Prince]

  
  
I could not watch the whole thing. His talking style or something
  gives me the DTs. 

Both he and Jonathan were incorrect about the CV death toll on
  the day of the interview (August 3). The death toll on August 2
  was around 158,000. Jonathan said 145,000 at one point, and OCP
  said 140,000.
But most of the interview was pretty much fact free from my
  perspective (I could not watch, but I skimmed the transcript (and
  even that was difficult to parse)). When OCP says things like
  "People are saying", or "They say", he has almost never backed
  that up with anything concrete.
To me, paying much (or any) attention to what he says is just an
  exercise in distractions and outrageous statements. It sure
  shortens watching the news when you can skip over those parts.


bp



On 8/5/2020 3:49 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  I watched the whole interview.  It was not the
unmitigated disaster the laft clams.  He is not very good at
speaking off the cuff about things that can be refuted, but
the things he said were, for the most part, literally true
if you parse the sentence.  
   
  Of course he does not have a filter and doesn’t care who
he offends with thoughtless remarks.  But if you take the
stuff he said sentence by sentence, word by word there are
legit, logical and true explanations.  The problem is he
parrots and regurgitates things his advisors tell him but he
flubs them up in the retelling.  I actually got a kick out
of them talking over each other.  I would have had a bit
more respect for the president if I was interviewing them
but obviously these two have a history and enjoy the
jousting.  
   
  He was pretty uncaring about John Lewis, but if John
Lewis snubbed him at the inauguration and state of the
unions, if John Lewis really had a deep dislike for Trump,
it is not surprising that Trump didn’t have much personal
knowledge of the guy.  When asked if Lewis was impressive
(not sure the exact wording) Trump essentially said “I don’t
know, others seem to think so”.  That is not Trump saying
Lewis was not impressive or discounting his accomplishments,
but that is how it was interpreted by some news outlets.  
   
  It seems we have a bunch of 13 year olds that summarize
current events and create headlines.  They lack the ability,
or tenacity or authority to attempt to report exactly what
has been said, rather they just report the worst possibly
way you can take/spin a statement.  On both sides.  
   
  You see an inflammatory head line, look at the story and
see the reactionary summary and then go actually read or
view the source and it is never as bad.  
   
  But if it bleeds it leads.  Not much has changed there. 
Newspaper articles 200 years ago were doing the exact same
thing to political enemies.  Even worse as far as slander
and libel.   
  

   
  
From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 4:31 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
  

 
  
  
Don't start...I'll post Axios interview from most inept
  president ever. What an embarrassment. 
 

  On Wed, Aug 5, 2020,
4:23 PM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  Antifa laser.
  

   
  
From: Jaime
Solorza 
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020
  3:02 PM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
  

 
  
  
Person behind holding the object. Debunked
 

  On Wed, Aug
5, 2020, 2:55 PM Bill Prince 
wrote:
  
  

Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

[Steve Jones]

this is settled law, if you get the fine, you will pay it or close your
doors. its pretty simple


On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:45 PM Matt Hoppes <
mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Sure. But I kick them off - they go to someone else, then they go to
> someone else.
>
> If you come to me with a legitimate request and pay reasonable research
> fees sure we will take care if it, but we aren’t a charity.
>
> On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> They hope that loss of safe harbor under DMCA and headlines about $1
> billion jury awards will scare ISPs into kicking pirates off their networks.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/19/21030812/cox-communications-record-labels-lawsuit-appeal-1-billion-piracy-isp-charter
>
>
>
> (and that was about songs, not videos)
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 7:02 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>
>
>
> Sounds like a job for Wispa.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:37 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Law enforcement pays as well. Lookup the rates the big boys charge the
> police for these requests. They have pricing tables just like every other
> product they sell..
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> I’m not a fan. But unless it’s law enforcement you need to pay for
> administrative time.
>
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Supposedly IP Echelon has a reputation for sending bogus claims, or not
> doing the due diligence required by the DMCA.  Although in some of those
> cases, they claimed it was a scam impersonating them.
>
>
> https://torrentfreak.com/isp-wants-us-marshals-to-help-serve-piracy-tracking-outfit-180528/
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 2:39 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>
>
>
> I was always very cooperative.  Not a fan of IP infringement.  But yeah, I
> let the customer know they had to fix the problem.
>
>
>
> *From:* Darin Steffl
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 1:32 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>
>
>
> Give it up Matt!!
>
>
>
> You know they won't pay so just ignore their emails.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:16 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> Exactly. We won’t provide details without a court order. And without
> payment we aren’t going to research anything.
>
> > On Aug 1, 2020, at 1:59 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> >
> > So do I understand correctly they are sending you DMCA complaints and
> you
> > are sending them bills for researching the supposedly infringing customer
> > and they don't pay but they send more complaints?
> >
> > This seems like Tom Hanks having a "conversation" with "Wilson" in the
> movie
> > Castaway.  Did you actually expect them to pay?
> >
> > If we receive a notice of claimed infringement, we try to make a
> judgement
> > whether it is legit or bogus, and either throw it away or contact the
> > customer accordingly.  But we NEVER contact the sender of the notice, we
> > never forward threats or demands for payment, and we don't provide
> > information about customers without a court order.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> > Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 12:17 PM
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
> >
> > IP Echelon continues to send us requests for information and research
> even
> > as their account remains delinquent with us.
> >
> > We have contacted them multiple times requesting payment but they have
> not
> > responded and continue to send requests for research.
> >
> > Does anyone have a good contact at IP Echelon related to billing matters?
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Breaking news

[Steve Jones]

im offended
what was said
i dont really care
all i know
is im offended
pay me


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 2:44 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> [image: Two people looking at the camera Description automatically
> generated]
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Friday, July 31, 2020 2:29 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Breaking news
>
>
>
> Non-centrists sometimes seem like lunatics.  They either think Communists
> are taking over the country or they think Nazi's are taking over the
> country.  And I'm like, "Do you none of you realize that nobody is taking
> over the country except all of you idiots?"
>
> On 7/31/2020 2:04 PM, Jason McKemie wrote:
>
> Being centrist is particularly dangerous these days.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 30, 2020 at 8:21 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
> I don't really understand the complaints about "cancel culture".  If it's
> about people shutting down things they don't like then that behavior exists
> everywhere, and I'm not sure why some groups think they're justified in
> using it as an attack against another group.  There's literally no society
> or section of society where some behavior or other won't get you
> "canceled".  Don't believe me?  Go to a Three Percenters meeting and tell
> them the NFA is compatible with the constitution, and then observe as you
> are canceled by the cancel culture.
>
> I get the idea of not triggering someone's PTSD.which is what "trigger
> warning" was originally about.  A "safe space" was supposed to be a place
> where you won't be harassed for being black or gay (etc).  I first heard
> both terms in media that was ridiculing the weakness of people who needed
> such things.  Whether it's really a weakness to not want to set off a
> person with mental problems or to want to be safe isn't as important as the
> fact that the terms no longer mean anything except to insult a perceived
> weakness in someone else.
>
> A militia meeting is a "safe space" for Three Percenters and Boogaloos to
> fully express their views about the elitist pedophile cabal discretely
> implementing communism in the USA.  What a bunch of weak-ass babies for
> feeling safe in their safe space while not feeling safe to express those
> ideas in the general public who would absolutely "cancel" them for being a
> bunch of weirdos.  I'm a believer in the importance of the second amendment
> and I'm a gun owner (and it's one of those evil semi automatic rifles with
> a box magazine and a black composite stock), and I would be all about
> joining a militia whose purpose was to defend the country and respond to
> natural disasters with no weird, political conspiracy BS baked in.  Too bad
> there isn't one.
>
> If anyone on the left feels left out of my rant, this next section is for
> you:
>
> I've met exactly one person who described themselves as "woke", and she
> was the most racist, manipulative lunatic I ever met in my life.  Here:
> https://youtu.be/-G5eEJTtKUw  That video freakin nails it.  "Oh we have
> to help these poor, stupid persons of color because they're too poor and
> stupid to help themselves.  I'm so woke AF because I've realized that black
> people are poor and stupid."  What the woke need to admit is that they've
> reinvented the "White Man's Burden".  Admit it, grow up, and move on.
>
> I've also got a half dozen or so Facebook friends who won't shut up about
> socialism.  I'd bet not a single one of them is a real socialist.  I bet
> not a single one of them actually knows what the F they're talking about.
> Just like these dumb kids:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMxTEZ7JizI&feature=youtu.be who think
> socialism means "helping people" or "closing the wealth gap".  What a bunch
> of goons.  Otto Von Bismarck was 100% correct.  You need robust social
> welfare programs because once the government is "helping people" you've now
> shut up 95% of the self described socialists who really just wanted to know
> that if they get too old or too sick to work that they'll be ok.  The 5% of
> remaining true believers then become an irrelevant fringe element which can
> now be ignored.
>
> And yeah by the way: The "silent majority" doesn't secretly agree with
> anybody in particular.  They actually find both ends of the political
> spectrum repulsive and frightening.  They're silent for the same reason you
> silently walk past a wild eyed street preacher who smells like whiskey and
> urine.
>
> If anyone doesn't feel sufficiently canceled then I'd be happy to rant
> about whatever political affiliation you prefer.  I don't want to
> discriminate. Fight me Steve.
>
>
>
> On 7/30/2020 8:14 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Good one.
>
>
>
> And is “cancelled” the latest version of “dead to me” or “talk to the
> hand”?  Is it different from “ghosting”?
>
>
>
> I hope the university that compiles an annual list of banished words
> includes “trigger warning”, “safe space”, “cancel culture”, and a bunch
> more that I never actually hear normal people sa

Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

[TJ Trout]

What is everyone else doing for these dmca notices?

this whole thing is a s*** situation because they will not pay to process
the requests but if you don't process the requests you lose your safe
harbor status and then become liable.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 12:22 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> this is settled law, if you get the fine, you will pay it or close your
> doors. its pretty simple
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:45 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> Sure. But I kick them off - they go to someone else, then they go to
>> someone else.
>>
>> If you come to me with a legitimate request and pay reasonable research
>> fees sure we will take care if it, but we aren’t a charity.
>>
>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> They hope that loss of safe harbor under DMCA and headlines about $1
>> billion jury awards will scare ISPs into kicking pirates off their networks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/19/21030812/cox-communications-record-labels-lawsuit-appeal-1-billion-piracy-isp-charter
>>
>>
>>
>> (and that was about songs, not videos)
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 7:02 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>>
>>
>>
>> Sounds like a job for Wispa.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:37 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Law enforcement pays as well. Lookup the rates the big boys charge the
>> police for these requests. They have pricing tables just like every other
>> product they sell..
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>> I’m not a fan. But unless it’s law enforcement you need to pay for
>> administrative time.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Supposedly IP Echelon has a reputation for sending bogus claims, or not
>> doing the due diligence required by the DMCA.  Although in some of those
>> cases, they claimed it was a scam impersonating them.
>>
>>
>> https://torrentfreak.com/isp-wants-us-marshals-to-help-serve-piracy-tracking-outfit-180528/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 2:39 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>>
>>
>>
>> I was always very cooperative.  Not a fan of IP infringement.  But yeah,
>> I let the customer know they had to fix the problem.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Darin Steffl
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 1:32 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>>
>>
>>
>> Give it up Matt!!
>>
>>
>>
>> You know they won't pay so just ignore their emails.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:16 PM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>> Exactly. We won’t provide details without a court order. And without
>> payment we aren’t going to research anything.
>>
>> > On Aug 1, 2020, at 1:59 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> >
>> > So do I understand correctly they are sending you DMCA complaints and
>> you
>> > are sending them bills for researching the supposedly infringing
>> customer
>> > and they don't pay but they send more complaints?
>> >
>> > This seems like Tom Hanks having a "conversation" with "Wilson" in the
>> movie
>> > Castaway.  Did you actually expect them to pay?
>> >
>> > If we receive a notice of claimed infringement, we try to make a
>> judgement
>> > whether it is legit or bogus, and either throw it away or contact the
>> > customer accordingly.  But we NEVER contact the sender of the notice, we
>> > never forward threats or demands for payment, and we don't provide
>> > information about customers without a court order.
>> >
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>> > Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 12:17 PM
>> > To: af@af.afmug.com
>> > Subject: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>> >
>> > IP Echelon continues to send us requests for information and research
>> even
>> > as their account remains delinquent with us.
>> >
>> > We have contacted them multiple times requesting payment but they have
>> not
>> > responded and continue to send requests for research.
>> >
>> > Does anyone have a good contact at IP Echelon related to billing
>> matters?
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list

Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[chuck]

I have a C.O. on one end and and my main building wiring closet on the other.  
Wiring closet has 72 ethernet switch ports in it.
It also currently has servers.  I want to first and foremost move the servers 
to the other location.

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:07 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

I think what people are getting at here is what else do you want to do with the 
switches?   

1G?  10G?  100G SFP interfaces? Quantity of each you are looking for.
1G Copper port count?
POE for cameras etc?  if so, what type.  


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 1:58 PM  wrote:

  Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two boxes.  Now, what goes on the end 
of the fiber?



  From: TJ Trout 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

  Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off list!

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM  wrote:

Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had 
good luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look 
Netonix may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but most 
of them don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both ends so I 
can do AC but I just didn’t want to.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:

  Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end 
are a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and the 
media converter at the other.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

  We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make 
industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:

I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on 
both ends with an SFP.  
48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do 
Netonix but I would like to hear opinions.  
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



  -- 

  Lewis Bergman 
  325-439-0533 Cell

--
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-- 

Carl Peterson


PORT NETWORKS

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707 




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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Cassidy B. Larson]

Does your wiring closet switch(es) have SFP/SFP+ ports? If so, just use that on 
that side. 


> On Aug 6, 2020, at 1:46 PM,   wrote:
> 
> I have a C.O. on one end and and my main building wiring closet on the other. 
>  Wiring closet has 72 ethernet switch ports in it.
> It also currently has servers.  I want to first and foremost move the servers 
> to the other location.
>  
> From: Carl Peterson <>
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:07 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>  
> I think what people are getting at here is what else do you want to do with 
> the switches?  
>  
> 1G?  10G?  100G SFP interfaces? Quantity of each you are looking for.
> 1G Copper port count?
> POE for cameras etc?  if so, what type. 
>  
>  
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 1:58 PM > wrote:
>> Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two boxes.  Now, what goes on the end 
>> of the fiber?
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: TJ Trout <>
>> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>  
>> Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off list!
>>  
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM > wrote:
>>> Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had 
>>> good luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look 
>>> Netonix may not be the best option.  I  would really like 48 vdc power 
>>> but most of them don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both 
>>> ends so I can do AC but I just didn’t want to. 
>>>  
>>> From: Lewis Bergman <>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>>  
>>> They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.
>>>  
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM > wrote:
 Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end 
 are a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end 
 and the media converter at the other. 
  
 From: Lewis Bergman <>
 Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
  
 We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make 
 industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.
  
 On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM > wrote:
> I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both 
> ends with an SFP. 
> 48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix 
> but I would like to hear opinions. 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com <>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
 
  
  
 -- 
 Lewis Bergman
 325-439-0533 Cell
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com <>
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
 
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com <>
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com <>
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com <>
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com <>
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com <>
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>> 
> 
>  
>  
> -- 
> Carl Peterson
> PORT NETWORKS
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> (410) 637-3707
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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[AFMUG] COVID Exposure and the real world

[Steve Jones]

So, the wife has a good probability of infection. She works at a hospital
as PCT (used to be CNA before PC). Patient came in with high likelihood of
COVID, Isolation protocols were put in place, initial test came back
negative, they pulled precautions. Still using basic surgical masks and
gloves (says right on box that it doesnt stop COVID-19). Patient is on
assistive ventilation, aerosolized secretions.
Doctor snaps and orders new test, of course it comes back positive.
So now multiple staff are exposed, the bad kind with aerosolized
secretions, thats the healthcare exposure they warn about.
Of course today the hospital changes policy to mandatory eye protection
(bit late knuckleheads)
inept

I could co on about how pissed I am about this, and the fact that
theyre not offering testing to exposed employees, and that the WHO
recommendation is healthcare staff continue coming into work until they
show symptoms, and the fact that staff wear the same mask for 12 hours and
are scolded if they want to change them even though mask production is
sufficient to support anything that comes at healthcare now. but thats a
whole other rant.

Moving forward we are treating the household as probably infected. Sons
baptism sunday is postponed. But trying to figure timelines and how to
handle exposure risks at my job. Trying to read up on all the current
politically motivated data is a joke. Best I can tell is transmissibility
minimum is 3 days, based on the newest harvard study. So assuming wife did
get it, we have 3 days from initial exposure for her to infect me and 3
days after that that in transmissible, so working on a minimum  6 day
window until I have to shut down contact.

I already notified everybody that If I come in for anything (primarily
working remote anyway) that ill be masked and gloved (lol, cloth masks from
her insurance provider) and wont be within 6 feet of anybody.

After the 6 days until she is cleared, I wont be making in person contact
with anyone. If I enter the office, masked and gloved, sanitize everything
as i come out. We already have staff separation, with different entrances
for everyone. No one inside at the same time as me, ill try to limit in
office to after hours. Any equipment I touch will be masked and gloved,
will be placed in out non air conditioned garage (gets hot) for 24 hours
before any other staff touches it and will be sanitized.

My site work (assuming no positive tests or symptoms in my house) will be
limited to me only and exterior work only, unmanned locations only, If any
at risk climbing is required of me, a second ground 911 man present, in
vehicle only. I I have to supervise any work, It will be from an isolated
location. Any site area I am in is not to be entered for 24 hours.

Any symptoms or positive tests in my house and we go on full quarantine.

Ive made it abundantly clear that I think this whole thing is blown out of
proportion, the masks are nothing more than something to make people feel
like theyre doing something, even though theyre really not effective and
come fall theyll be massive bacterial breeding grounds. But there is due
diligence, and I think this plan of attack is pretty reasonable. It
mitigates any risk while allowing us to maintain productivity (assuming no
symptoms or positive tests). It feels like its something with minimal major
company impact and id easy to replicate given that my spouse works in
healthcare and this likely wont be the last high risk exposure. But I still
am not matt hoppes level.

At this time, I havent had any "exposure" but there is a probable looming
exposure. I'm personally relieved that its probably in my house now, and we
have time to prepare for the inevitable. Im high risk because of COPD, so
theres that, but Ive already made right with that. Id rather just get it
over with, I had planned to get exposed a while back to get past it but got
that plan taken out from under me.

We may "luck out" and this exposure was a near miss, but if
transmissibility is anywhere near what the politics say it is, this ones
all but certain.

I think the 6 day window is a logical one to increase precautions until we
are past it. I think the non contact addresses any risk to coworkers. I
think the timeframe between shared surface/inventory contact is reasonable
and "science based". and after 14 days from the last exposure (she was
exposed over two consecutive 12 hour shifts) is a good window for increased
precautions to be in play, with a review and swap test at the drive
through site nearby.

anybody but matt have any thoughts on this plan. I really think its more
than what is actually needed, but meets the abundance of caution threshold
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

[Steve Jones]

we use powercode. The dmca notices are forwarded to the powercode ticket
system from our abuse email. If the listed IP is not a NAT IP we assign the
ticket as viewable to the customer so its tied to their account. we leave
it open for a week then close it if the customer chooses not to follow up.
If a customer has 3 or more notices in a year, we restrict their access
until they verify they have read it, we have rough script that says
basically We are required to forward this to you, we are unable to discuss
it as it is between them and a third party. If they need any advice we
recommend they contact an attorney.

If it is a NAT IP we update and close the unassigned ticket with the same
words "NAT IP, UNABLE TO IDENTIFY CUSTOMER" This meets our burden of
responsibility and maintains record of all notices and our active attempt
(while minimal) to respond.

If we get a customer who continually gets these notices, we will have an
administrative discussion and notify the customer of whatever our decision
is (hint: it will 99 percent of the time be to do nothing other than repeat
the script)

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 2:39 PM TJ Trout  wrote:

> What is everyone else doing for these dmca notices?
>
> this whole thing is a s*** situation because they will not pay to process
> the requests but if you don't process the requests you lose your safe
> harbor status and then become liable.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 12:22 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> this is settled law, if you get the fine, you will pay it or close your
>> doors. its pretty simple
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:45 PM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Sure. But I kick them off - they go to someone else, then they go to
>>> someone else.
>>>
>>> If you come to me with a legitimate request and pay reasonable research
>>> fees sure we will take care if it, but we aren’t a charity.
>>>
>>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> They hope that loss of safe harbor under DMCA and headlines about $1
>>> billion jury awards will scare ISPs into kicking pirates off their networks.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/19/21030812/cox-communications-record-labels-lawsuit-appeal-1-billion-piracy-isp-charter
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> (and that was about songs, not videos)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 7:02 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sounds like a job for Wispa.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:37 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Law enforcement pays as well. Lookup the rates the big boys charge the
>>> police for these requests. They have pricing tables just like every other
>>> product they sell..
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> I’m not a fan. But unless it’s law enforcement you need to pay for
>>> administrative time.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> Supposedly IP Echelon has a reputation for sending bogus claims, or not
>>> doing the due diligence required by the DMCA.  Although in some of those
>>> cases, they claimed it was a scam impersonating them.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://torrentfreak.com/isp-wants-us-marshals-to-help-serve-piracy-tracking-outfit-180528/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 2:39 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was always very cooperative.  Not a fan of IP infringement.  But yeah,
>>> I let the customer know they had to fix the problem.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Darin Steffl
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 1:32 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Give it up Matt!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You know they won't pay so just ignore their emails.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:16 PM Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
>>> Exactly. We won’t provide details without a court order. And without
>>> payment we aren’t going to research anything.
>>>
>>> > On Aug 1, 2020, at 1:59 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> >
>>> > So do I understand correctly they are sending you DMCA complaints and
>>> you
>>> > are sending them bills for researching the supposedly infringing
>>> customer
>>> > and they don't pay but they send more complaints?
>>> >
>>> > This seems like Tom Hanks having a "conversation" with "Wilson" in the
>>> movie
>>> > Castaway.  Did you actually expect them to pay?
>>> >
>>> > If we receive a notice of claimed infringement, we try to make a
>>> judgement
>>> > whether it is legit or bogus, and either throw it away or contact the
>>> > customer accordingly.  But we NEVER contact the sender of the notice,
>>

Re: [AFMUG] COVID Exposure and the real world

[Jaime Solorza]

Prayers for your wife and family.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:06 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> So, the wife has a good probability of infection. She works at a hospital
> as PCT (used to be CNA before PC). Patient came in with high likelihood of
> COVID, Isolation protocols were put in place, initial test came back
> negative, they pulled precautions. Still using basic surgical masks and
> gloves (says right on box that it doesnt stop COVID-19). Patient is on
> assistive ventilation, aerosolized secretions.
> Doctor snaps and orders new test, of course it comes back positive.
> So now multiple staff are exposed, the bad kind with aerosolized
> secretions, thats the healthcare exposure they warn about.
> Of course today the hospital changes policy to mandatory eye protection
> (bit late knuckleheads)
> inept
>
> I could co on about how pissed I am about this, and the fact that
> theyre not offering testing to exposed employees, and that the WHO
> recommendation is healthcare staff continue coming into work until they
> show symptoms, and the fact that staff wear the same mask for 12 hours and
> are scolded if they want to change them even though mask production is
> sufficient to support anything that comes at healthcare now. but thats a
> whole other rant.
>
> Moving forward we are treating the household as probably infected. Sons
> baptism sunday is postponed. But trying to figure timelines and how to
> handle exposure risks at my job. Trying to read up on all the current
> politically motivated data is a joke. Best I can tell is transmissibility
> minimum is 3 days, based on the newest harvard study. So assuming wife did
> get it, we have 3 days from initial exposure for her to infect me and 3
> days after that that in transmissible, so working on a minimum  6 day
> window until I have to shut down contact.
>
> I already notified everybody that If I come in for anything (primarily
> working remote anyway) that ill be masked and gloved (lol, cloth masks from
> her insurance provider) and wont be within 6 feet of anybody.
>
> After the 6 days until she is cleared, I wont be making in person contact
> with anyone. If I enter the office, masked and gloved, sanitize everything
> as i come out. We already have staff separation, with different entrances
> for everyone. No one inside at the same time as me, ill try to limit in
> office to after hours. Any equipment I touch will be masked and gloved,
> will be placed in out non air conditioned garage (gets hot) for 24 hours
> before any other staff touches it and will be sanitized.
>
> My site work (assuming no positive tests or symptoms in my house) will be
> limited to me only and exterior work only, unmanned locations only, If any
> at risk climbing is required of me, a second ground 911 man present, in
> vehicle only. I I have to supervise any work, It will be from an isolated
> location. Any site area I am in is not to be entered for 24 hours.
>
> Any symptoms or positive tests in my house and we go on full quarantine.
>
> Ive made it abundantly clear that I think this whole thing is blown out of
> proportion, the masks are nothing more than something to make people feel
> like theyre doing something, even though theyre really not effective and
> come fall theyll be massive bacterial breeding grounds. But there is due
> diligence, and I think this plan of attack is pretty reasonable. It
> mitigates any risk while allowing us to maintain productivity (assuming no
> symptoms or positive tests). It feels like its something with minimal major
> company impact and id easy to replicate given that my spouse works in
> healthcare and this likely wont be the last high risk exposure. But I still
> am not matt hoppes level.
>
> At this time, I havent had any "exposure" but there is a probable looming
> exposure. I'm personally relieved that its probably in my house now, and we
> have time to prepare for the inevitable. Im high risk because of COPD, so
> theres that, but Ive already made right with that. Id rather just get it
> over with, I had planned to get exposed a while back to get past it but got
> that plan taken out from under me.
>
> We may "luck out" and this exposure was a near miss, but if
> transmissibility is anywhere near what the politics say it is, this ones
> all but certain.
>
> I think the 6 day window is a logical one to increase precautions until we
> are past it. I think the non contact addresses any risk to coworkers. I
> think the timeframe between shared surface/inventory contact is reasonable
> and "science based". and after 14 days from the last exposure (she was
> exposed over two consecutive 12 hour shifts) is a good window for increased
> precautions to be in play, with a review and swap test at the drive
> through site nearby.
>
> anybody but matt have any thoughts on this plan. I really think its more
> than what is actually needed, but meets the abundance of caution threshold
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailma

Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[chuck]

Yes, in the UBNT switch it has 2 of each.  

From: Cassidy B. Larson 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

Does your wiring closet switch(es) have SFP/SFP+ ports? If so, just use that on 
that side.  



  On Aug 6, 2020, at 1:46 PM,   wrote:

  I have a C.O. on one end and and my main building wiring closet on the other. 
 Wiring closet has 72 ethernet switch ports in it.
  It also currently has servers.  I want to first and foremost move the servers 
to the other location.

  From: Carl Peterson 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:07 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

  I think what people are getting at here is what else do you want to do with 
the switches?   

  1G?  10G?  100G SFP interfaces? Quantity of each you are looking for.
  1G Copper port count?
  POE for cameras etc?  if so, what type.  


  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 1:58 PM  wrote:

Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two boxes.  Now, what goes on the 
end of the fiber?



From: TJ Trout 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off list!

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM  wrote:

  Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had 
good luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look 
Netonix may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but most 
of them don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both ends so I 
can do AC but I just didn’t want to.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

  They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:

Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end 
are a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and the 
media converter at the other.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make 
industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:

  I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on 
both ends with an SFP.  
  48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do 
Netonix but I would like to hear opinions.  
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  PORT NETWORKS
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Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

[James Howard]

We just do what’s required to maintain safe harbor.  Our role is only to pass 
along the claim of infringement.  We make it clear to our customers that it’s a 
CLAIM but do inform them of our policy regarding multiple claims being made 
against them and enforce that (including fees to reconnect).  I don’t believe 
we’ve ever had to actually terminate a customer for it, most acknowledge the 
email and say they’ve caught the kid who was doing it (sure!  It’s always the 
kids) and it won’t happen again.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:39 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

What is everyone else doing for these dmca notices?

this whole thing is a s*** situation because they will not pay to process the 
requests but if you don't process the requests you lose your safe harbor status 
and then become liable.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 12:22 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
this is settled law, if you get the fine, you will pay it or close your doors. 
its pretty simple


On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:45 PM Matt Hoppes 
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> 
wrote:
Sure. But I kick them off - they go to someone else, then they go to someone 
else.

If you come to me with a legitimate request and pay reasonable research fees 
sure we will take care if it, but we aren’t a charity.


On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

They hope that loss of safe harbor under DMCA and headlines about $1 billion 
jury awards will scare ISPs into kicking pirates off their networks.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/19/21030812/cox-communications-record-labels-lawsuit-appeal-1-billion-piracy-isp-charter

(and that was about songs, not videos)

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 7:02 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

Sounds like a job for Wispa.
Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:37 PM, TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com>> 
wrote:

Law enforcement pays as well. Lookup the rates the big boys charge the police 
for these requests. They have pricing tables just like every other product they 
sell..

On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:55 PM Matt Hoppes 
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> 
wrote:
I’m not a fan. But unless it’s law enforcement you need to pay for 
administrative time.

On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:

Supposedly IP Echelon has a reputation for sending bogus claims, or not doing 
the due diligence required by the DMCA.  Although in some of those cases, they 
claimed it was a scam impersonating them.
https://torrentfreak.com/isp-wants-us-marshals-to-help-serve-piracy-tracking-outfit-180528/


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 2:39 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

I was always very cooperative.  Not a fan of IP infringement.  But yeah, I let 
the customer know they had to fix the problem.

From: Darin Steffl
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 1:32 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

Give it up Matt!!

You know they won't pay so just ignore their emails.



On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:16 PM Matt Hoppes 
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> 
wrote:
Exactly. We won’t provide details without a court order. And without payment we 
aren’t going to research anything.

> On Aug 1, 2020, at 1:59 PM, Ken Hohhof 
> mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
>
> So do I understand correctly they are sending you DMCA complaints and you
> are sending them bills for researching the supposedly infringing customer
> and they don't pay but they send more complaints?
>
> This seems like Tom Hanks having a "conversation" with "Wilson" in the movie
> Castaway.  Did you actually expect them to pay?
>
> If we receive a notice of claimed infringement, we try to make a judgement
> whether it is legit or bogus, and either throw it away or contact the
> customer accordingly.  But we NEVER contact the sender of the notice, we
> never forward threats or demands for payment, and we don't provide
> information about customers without a court order.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 12:17 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>
> IP Echelon continues to send us requests for information and research even
> as their account remains delinquent with us.
>
> We have contacted them multiple times requesting payment but they have not
> responded and continue to send requests for research.
>
> Does anyone have a good contact at IP Echelon related to billing matters?

Re: [AFMUG] COVID Exposure and the real world

[chuck]

Ditto.  

How long before her test results come back?

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:16 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID Exposure and the real world

Prayers for your wife and family.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:06 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

  So, the wife has a good probability of infection. She works at a hospital as 
PCT (used to be CNA before PC). Patient came in with high likelihood of COVID, 
Isolation protocols were put in place, initial test came back negative, they 
pulled precautions. Still using basic surgical masks and gloves (says right on 
box that it doesnt stop COVID-19). Patient is on assistive ventilation, 
aerosolized secretions. 
  Doctor snaps and orders new test, of course it comes back positive.
  So now multiple staff are exposed, the bad kind with aerosolized secretions, 
thats the healthcare exposure they warn about.
  Of course today the hospital changes policy to mandatory eye protection (bit 
late knuckleheads)
  inept

  I could co on about how pissed I am about this, and the fact that theyre not 
offering testing to exposed employees, and that the WHO recommendation is 
healthcare staff continue coming into work until they show symptoms, and the 
fact that staff wear the same mask for 12 hours and are scolded if they want to 
change them even though mask production is sufficient to support anything that 
comes at healthcare now. but thats a whole other rant.

  Moving forward we are treating the household as probably infected. Sons 
baptism sunday is postponed. But trying to figure timelines and how to handle 
exposure risks at my job. Trying to read up on all the current politically 
motivated data is a joke. Best I can tell is transmissibility minimum is 3 
days, based on the newest harvard study. So assuming wife did get it, we have 3 
days from initial exposure for her to infect me and 3 days after that that in 
transmissible, so working on a minimum  6 day window until I have to shut down 
contact.

  I already notified everybody that If I come in for anything (primarily 
working remote anyway) that ill be masked and gloved (lol, cloth masks from her 
insurance provider) and wont be within 6 feet of anybody.

  After the 6 days until she is cleared, I wont be making in person contact 
with anyone. If I enter the office, masked and gloved, sanitize everything as i 
come out. We already have staff separation, with different entrances for 
everyone. No one inside at the same time as me, ill try to limit in office to 
after hours. Any equipment I touch will be masked and gloved, will be placed in 
out non air conditioned garage (gets hot) for 24 hours before any other staff 
touches it and will be sanitized.

  My site work (assuming no positive tests or symptoms in my house) will be 
limited to me only and exterior work only, unmanned locations only, If any at 
risk climbing is required of me, a second ground 911 man present, in vehicle 
only. I I have to supervise any work, It will be from an isolated location. Any 
site area I am in is not to be entered for 24 hours.

  Any symptoms or positive tests in my house and we go on full quarantine.

  Ive made it abundantly clear that I think this whole thing is blown out of 
proportion, the masks are nothing more than something to make people feel like 
theyre doing something, even though theyre really not effective and come fall 
theyll be massive bacterial breeding grounds. But there is due diligence, and I 
think this plan of attack is pretty reasonable. It mitigates any risk while 
allowing us to maintain productivity (assuming no symptoms or positive tests). 
It feels like its something with minimal major company impact and id easy to 
replicate given that my spouse works in healthcare and this likely wont be the 
last high risk exposure. But I still am not matt hoppes level.

  At this time, I havent had any "exposure" but there is a probable looming 
exposure. I'm personally relieved that its probably in my house now, and we 
have time to prepare for the inevitable. Im high risk because of COPD, so 
theres that, but Ive already made right with that. Id rather just get it over 
with, I had planned to get exposed a while back to get past it but got that 
plan taken out from under me.

  We may "luck out" and this exposure was a near miss, but if transmissibility 
is anywhere near what the politics say it is, this ones all but certain. 

  I think the 6 day window is a logical one to increase precautions until we 
are past it. I think the non contact addresses any risk to coworkers. I think 
the timeframe between shared surface/inventory contact is reasonable and 
"science based". and after 14 days from the last exposure (she was exposed over 
two consecutive 12 hour shifts) is a good window for increased precautions to 
be in play, with a review and swap test at the drive through site nearby.

  anybody but matt have any thoughts on this plan. I really think its more than

Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

[Ken Hohhof]

On the topic of “some hotties around when we get older”, YouTube thought I 
would be interested in some live Bangles concerts and interviews.  Apparently 
the band reformed and there are some videos from 2008-2019.  Susanna Hoffs was 
always a hottie, and I’d say still is.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhhguGo2pA

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 2:54 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

Ken I don’t know what is funnier, but the fact you know that reference about 
the milkshake and boys to the back yard had me rolling. Thanks guys for the 
thread and the laugh today! And Martha looked good in that shot. Gives a guy 
hope that it is possible to still have some hotties around when we get older….. 
Retirement communities like The Villages in Florida I guess can be fun places.

 

https://www.villages-news.com/2019/05/04/villages-101-whats-the-truth-behind-urban-legend-of-stds-in-the-villages/

 

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com  

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 1:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

Gotta be careful not to mix your metaphors, or someone could get the idea 
you’re referring to the sort of milkshake that brings all the boys to the yard.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 12:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

I do check google news about 5-10 times a day.  And I have been known to click 
on a pretty face.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 10:43 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

If you are following Martha Stewart or Chelsea Handler, you have too much time 
on your hands.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 10:37 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

Yeah, my son was posing me.

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 9:33 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

Then you should have tilted your head back so we could see up your nose into 
the prime swab area.

 

bp

 

On 8/3/2020 8:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Yeah, that was pretty vague.  There was some clickbait news where 74 or 
whatever year old Martha Stewart did a selfie from a pool looking all sexy etc.

So Chelsea Handler knocked off the same look in a selfie pool shot.  

 

https://www.delish.com/food-news/a33408284/chelsea-handler-martha-stewart-photo/

 

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 9:02 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

Maybe it's because it's Monday, but I don't get it.

 

On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:





Sent from my iPhone-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

 

-- 

Lewis Bergman 

325-439-0533 Cell


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Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

[chuck]

Better than Jaime’s weather girls IMHO.

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:29 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

On the topic of “some hotties around when we get older”, YouTube thought I 
would be interested in some live Bangles concerts and interviews.  Apparently 
the band reformed and there are some videos from 2008-2019.  Susanna Hoffs was 
always a hottie, and I’d say still is.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhhguGo2pA

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Brian Webster
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 2:54 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

Ken I don’t know what is funnier, but the fact you know that reference about 
the milkshake and boys to the back yard had me rolling. Thanks guys for the 
thread and the laugh today! And Martha looked good in that shot. Gives a guy 
hope that it is possible to still have some hotties around when we get older….. 
Retirement communities like The Villages in Florida I guess can be fun places.

 

https://www.villages-news.com/2019/05/04/villages-101-whats-the-truth-behind-urban-legend-of-stds-in-the-villages/

 

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 1:57 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

Gotta be careful not to mix your metaphors, or someone could get the idea 
you’re referring to the sort of milkshake that brings all the boys to the yard.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 12:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

I do check google news about 5-10 times a day.  And I have been known to click 
on a pretty face.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 10:43 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

If you are following Martha Stewart or Chelsea Handler, you have too much time 
on your hands.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 10:37 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

Yeah, my son was posing me.

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 9:33 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

 

Then you should have tilted your head back so we could see up your nose into 
the prime swab area.

 

bp On 8/3/2020 8:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Yeah, that was pretty vague.  There was some clickbait news where 74 or 
whatever year old Martha Stewart did a selfie from a pool looking all sexy etc.

  So Chelsea Handler knocked off the same look in a selfie pool shot.  

   

  
https://www.delish.com/food-news/a33408284/chelsea-handler-martha-stewart-photo/

   

  From: Lewis Bergman 

  Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 9:02 AM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

   

  Maybe it's because it's Monday, but I don't get it.

   

  On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:





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AF@af.afmug.com
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  325-439-0533 Cell


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Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

[Mark Radabaugh]

Same as Steve, though we don’t have NAT customers so we can identify all of 
them.

Mark

> On Aug 6, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> we use powercode. The dmca notices are forwarded to the powercode ticket 
> system from our abuse email. If the listed IP is not a NAT IP we assign the 
> ticket as viewable to the customer so its tied to their account. we leave it 
> open for a week then close it if the customer chooses not to follow up. If a 
> customer has 3 or more notices in a year, we restrict their access until they 
> verify they have read it, we have rough script that says basically We are 
> required to forward this to you, we are unable to discuss it as it is between 
> them and a third party. If they need any advice we recommend they contact an 
> attorney.
> 
> If it is a NAT IP we update and close the unassigned ticket with the same 
> words "NAT IP, UNABLE TO IDENTIFY CUSTOMER" This meets our burden of 
> responsibility and maintains record of all notices and our active attempt 
> (while minimal) to respond.
> 
> If we get a customer who continually gets these notices, we will have an 
> administrative discussion and notify the customer of whatever our decision is 
> (hint: it will 99 percent of the time be to do nothing other than repeat the 
> script)
> 
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 2:39 PM TJ Trout  > wrote:
> What is everyone else doing for these dmca notices?
> 
> this whole thing is a s*** situation because they will not pay to process the 
> requests but if you don't process the requests you lose your safe harbor 
> status and then become liable. 
> 
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 12:22 PM Steve Jones  > wrote:
> this is settled law, if you get the fine, you will pay it or close your 
> doors. its pretty simple
> 
> 
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:45 PM Matt Hoppes  > wrote:
> Sure. But I kick them off - they go to someone else, then they go to someone 
> else. 
> 
> If you come to me with a legitimate request and pay reasonable research fees 
> sure we will take care if it, but we aren’t a charity. 
> 
>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Ken Hohhof > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> They hope that loss of safe harbor under DMCA and headlines about $1 billion 
>> jury awards will scare ISPs into kicking pirates off their networks.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/19/21030812/cox-communications-record-labels-lawsuit-appeal-1-billion-piracy-isp-charter
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> (and that was about songs, not videos)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
>> Behalf Of Chuck McCown
>> Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 7:02 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > >
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Sounds like a job for Wispa.  
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:37 PM, TJ Trout > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Law enforcement pays as well. Lookup the rates the big boys charge the 
>> police for these requests. They have pricing tables just like every other 
>> product they sell..
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:55 PM Matt Hoppes > > wrote:
>> 
>> I’m not a fan. But unless it’s law enforcement you need to pay for 
>> administrative time. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Ken Hohhof > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Supposedly IP Echelon has a reputation for sending bogus claims, or not 
>> doing the due diligence required by the DMCA.  Although in some of those 
>> cases, they claimed it was a scam impersonating them.
>> 
>> https://torrentfreak.com/isp-wants-us-marshals-to-help-serve-piracy-tracking-outfit-180528/
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
>> Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
>> Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 2:39 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group > >
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I was always very cooperative.  Not a fan of IP infringement.  But yeah, I 
>> let the customer know they had to fix the problem. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Darin Steffl
>> 
>> Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 1:32 PM
>> 
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Give it up Matt!!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> You know they won't pay so just ignore their emails.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:16 PM Matt Hoppes > > wrote:
>> 
>> Exactly. We won’t provide details without a court order. And without payment 
>> we aren’t going to research anything. 
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] COVID Exposure and the real world

[Steve Jones]

with her first exposure being tuesday and second wednesday we are waiting
til sunday to make a family trip. testing too early there wont be enough
RNA for a valid test. That facility does 5-7 days so next friday to sunday.
the hospital doesnt do staff testing, which is odd. he sister works in a
nursing home and one of her close quarters coworkers tested asymptomatic
positive monday, they took the facility back to total lockdown and are
testing every staff and resident weekly until they have 2 weeks free of
positive tests. the discrepancy in testing among healthcare is simply
astounding to me. a side note on the rolling shitshow is my uncle lives at
that facility and got put on hospice yesterday. they wont let anyone into
the facility to visit him with the exception of his final hours, one single
person get one single visit. my aunt and cousins and mom are pretty tore up

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:20 PM  wrote:

> Ditto.
>
> How long before her test results come back?
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:16 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID Exposure and the real world
>
> Prayers for your wife and family.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:06 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> So, the wife has a good probability of infection. She works at a hospital
>> as PCT (used to be CNA before PC). Patient came in with high likelihood of
>> COVID, Isolation protocols were put in place, initial test came back
>> negative, they pulled precautions. Still using basic surgical masks and
>> gloves (says right on box that it doesnt stop COVID-19). Patient is on
>> assistive ventilation, aerosolized secretions.
>> Doctor snaps and orders new test, of course it comes back positive.
>> So now multiple staff are exposed, the bad kind with aerosolized
>> secretions, thats the healthcare exposure they warn about.
>> Of course today the hospital changes policy to mandatory eye protection
>> (bit late knuckleheads)
>> inept
>>
>> I could co on about how pissed I am about this, and the fact that theyre
>> not offering testing to exposed employees, and that the WHO recommendation
>> is healthcare staff continue coming into work until they show symptoms, and
>> the fact that staff wear the same mask for 12 hours and are scolded if they
>> want to change them even though mask production is sufficient to support
>> anything that comes at healthcare now. but thats a whole other rant.
>>
>> Moving forward we are treating the household as probably infected. Sons
>> baptism sunday is postponed. But trying to figure timelines and how to
>> handle exposure risks at my job. Trying to read up on all the current
>> politically motivated data is a joke. Best I can tell is transmissibility
>> minimum is 3 days, based on the newest harvard study. So assuming wife did
>> get it, we have 3 days from initial exposure for her to infect me and 3
>> days after that that in transmissible, so working on a minimum  6 day
>> window until I have to shut down contact.
>>
>> I already notified everybody that If I come in for anything (primarily
>> working remote anyway) that ill be masked and gloved (lol, cloth masks from
>> her insurance provider) and wont be within 6 feet of anybody.
>>
>> After the 6 days until she is cleared, I wont be making in person contact
>> with anyone. If I enter the office, masked and gloved, sanitize everything
>> as i come out. We already have staff separation, with different entrances
>> for everyone. No one inside at the same time as me, ill try to limit in
>> office to after hours. Any equipment I touch will be masked and gloved,
>> will be placed in out non air conditioned garage (gets hot) for 24 hours
>> before any other staff touches it and will be sanitized.
>>
>> My site work (assuming no positive tests or symptoms in my house) will be
>> limited to me only and exterior work only, unmanned locations only, If any
>> at risk climbing is required of me, a second ground 911 man present, in
>> vehicle only. I I have to supervise any work, It will be from an isolated
>> location. Any site area I am in is not to be entered for 24 hours.
>>
>> Any symptoms or positive tests in my house and we go on full quarantine.
>>
>> Ive made it abundantly clear that I think this whole thing is blown out
>> of proportion, the masks are nothing more than something to make people
>> feel like theyre doing something, even though theyre really not effective
>> and come fall theyll be massive bacterial breeding grounds. But there is
>> due diligence, and I think this plan of attack is pretty reasonable. It
>> mitigates any risk while allowing us to maintain productivity (assuming no
>> symptoms or positive tests). It feels like its something with minimal major
>> company impact and id easy to replicate given that my spouse works in
>> healthcare and this likely wont be the last high risk exposure. But I still
>> am not matt hoppes level.
>>
>> At this time, I havent had any "exposure" but there is

Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

[Steve Jones]

We have slowly been deploying all our new IP space to eliminate NAT. Bank
websites have been getting really strict about NAT IPs anymore

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:40 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:

> Same as Steve, though we don’t have NAT customers so we can identify all
> of them.
>
> Mark
>
> On Aug 6, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
>
> we use powercode. The dmca notices are forwarded to the powercode ticket
> system from our abuse email. If the listed IP is not a NAT IP we assign the
> ticket as viewable to the customer so its tied to their account. we leave
> it open for a week then close it if the customer chooses not to follow up.
> If a customer has 3 or more notices in a year, we restrict their access
> until they verify they have read it, we have rough script that says
> basically We are required to forward this to you, we are unable to discuss
> it as it is between them and a third party. If they need any advice we
> recommend they contact an attorney.
>
> If it is a NAT IP we update and close the unassigned ticket with the same
> words "NAT IP, UNABLE TO IDENTIFY CUSTOMER" This meets our burden of
> responsibility and maintains record of all notices and our active attempt
> (while minimal) to respond.
>
> If we get a customer who continually gets these notices, we will have an
> administrative discussion and notify the customer of whatever our decision
> is (hint: it will 99 percent of the time be to do nothing other than repeat
> the script)
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 2:39 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>
>> What is everyone else doing for these dmca notices?
>>
>> this whole thing is a s*** situation because they will not pay to process
>> the requests but if you don't process the requests you lose your safe
>> harbor status and then become liable.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 12:22 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> this is settled law, if you get the fine, you will pay it or close your
>>> doors. its pretty simple
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:45 PM Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
 Sure. But I kick them off - they go to someone else, then they go to
 someone else.

 If you come to me with a legitimate request and pay reasonable research
 fees sure we will take care if it, but we aren’t a charity.

 On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

 

 They hope that loss of safe harbor under DMCA and headlines about $1
 billion jury awards will scare ISPs into kicking pirates off their 
 networks.




 https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/19/21030812/cox-communications-record-labels-lawsuit-appeal-1-billion-piracy-isp-charter



 (and that was about songs, not videos)



 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
 *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 7:02 PM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent



 Sounds like a job for Wispa.

 Sent from my iPhone



 On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:37 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

 

 Law enforcement pays as well. Lookup the rates the big boys charge the
 police for these requests. They have pricing tables just like every other
 product they sell..



 On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
 mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

 I’m not a fan. But unless it’s law enforcement you need to pay for
 administrative time.



 On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

 

 Supposedly IP Echelon has a reputation for sending bogus claims, or not
 doing the due diligence required by the DMCA.  Although in some of those
 cases, they claimed it was a scam impersonating them.


 https://torrentfreak.com/isp-wants-us-marshals-to-help-serve-piracy-tracking-outfit-180528/





 *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
 *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 2:39 PM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent



 I was always very cooperative.  Not a fan of IP infringement.  But
 yeah, I let the customer know they had to fix the problem.



 *From:* Darin Steffl

 *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 1:32 PM

 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent



 Give it up Matt!!



 You know they won't pay so just ignore their emails.







 On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:16 PM Matt Hoppes <
 mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

 Exactly. We won’t provide details without a court order. And without
 payment we aren’t going to research anything.

 > On Aug 1, 2020, at 1:59 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
 >
 > So do I understand correctly they are sending you DMCA complaints
 and you
 > are sen

Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Steve Jones]

We are in the same boat looking at switches for everything migrating to
fiber. I love my HP procurves, but getting into more than a handful of SFP+
ports gets us way far from hundreds of dollars per switch. I dont consider
netonix because I like unfried gear and ports, theyre like a running
ubiquiti beta.
Im curious about these plantronics
I was leary of looking at the cambium solutions due to price, but thinking
about it, we run packetflux and at 250 per 4 radios, going to a poe out
switch too is worth looking at, but i love packetflux, so im torn. I like
keeping my power and sync independent and not having it comingled with pps
and throughput

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:18 PM  wrote:

> Yes, in the UBNT switch it has 2 of each.
>
> *From:* Cassidy B. Larson
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>
> Does your wiring closet switch(es) have SFP/SFP+ ports? If so, just use
> that on that side.
>
>
> On Aug 6, 2020, at 1:46 PM,   wrote:
>
> I have a C.O. on one end and and my main building wiring closet on the
> other.  Wiring closet has 72 ethernet switch ports in it.
> It also currently has servers.  I want to first and foremost move the
> servers to the other location.
>
> *From:* Carl Peterson
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:07 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>
> I think what people are getting at here is what else do you want to do
> with the switches?
>
> 1G?  10G?  100G SFP interfaces? Quantity of each you are looking for.
> 1G Copper port count?
> POE for cameras etc?  if so, what type.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 1:58 PM  wrote:
>
>> Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two boxes.  Now, what goes on the
>> end of the fiber?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>
>> Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off list!
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had
>>> good luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look
>>> Netonix may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but
>>> most of them don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both
>>> ends so I can do AC but I just didn’t want to.
>>>
>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>>
>>> They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:
>>>
 Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end
 are a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and
 the media converter at the other.

 *From:* Lewis Bergman
 *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

 We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make
 industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.

 On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:

> I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on
> both ends with an SFP.
> 48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do
> Netonix but I would like to hear opinions.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


 --
 Lewis Bergman
 325-439-0533 Cell
 --
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Carl Peterson
> *PORT NETWORKS*
> 401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553
> Baltimore, MD 21202
> (410) 637-3707
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af

Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

[Steve Jones]

nobody gets to block jaime

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 6:35 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Not a thing you can say will change my honest belief that this clown has
> really hurt our country and caused a lot of pain.  Block me if you wish,
> but if he was in front of me, I would slap him.  Not punch him ..I save
> those for men
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 4:23 PM  wrote:
>
>> Antifa laser.
>>
>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 3:02 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>>
>> Person behind holding the object. Debunked
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:55 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> Looks like a mirage to me.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 8/5/2020 1:47 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
>>>
>>> Ha...my friend is analyzing it...he has cool toys and software plus
>>> expertise.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:02 PM  wrote:
>>>
 That’s what covid looks like in the wild.

 *From:* Jaime Solorza
 *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:52 PM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

 Intriguing...not a lens flare
 --
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>>
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

[Mike Hammett]

Do those strict bank sites support IPv6? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:50:40 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent 


We have slowly been deploying all our new IP space to eliminate NAT. Bank 
websites have been getting really strict about NAT IPs anymore 


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:40 PM Mark Radabaugh < m...@amplex.net > wrote: 



Same as Steve, though we don’t have NAT customers so we can identify all of 
them. 


Mark 





On Aug 6, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 


we use powercode. The dmca notices are forwarded to the powercode ticket system 
from our abuse email. If the listed IP is not a NAT IP we assign the ticket as 
viewable to the customer so its tied to their account. we leave it open for a 
week then close it if the customer chooses not to follow up. If a customer has 
3 or more notices in a year, we restrict their access until they verify they 
have read it, we have rough script that says basically We are required to 
forward this to you, we are unable to discuss it as it is between them and a 
third party. If they need any advice we recommend they contact an attorney. 


If it is a NAT IP we update and close the unassigned ticket with the same words 
"NAT IP, UNABLE TO IDENTIFY CUSTOMER" This meets our burden of responsibility 
and maintains record of all notices and our active attempt (while minimal) to 
respond. 


If we get a customer who continually gets these notices, we will have an 
administrative discussion and notify the customer of whatever our decision is 
(hint: it will 99 percent of the time be to do nothing other than repeat the 
script) 


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 2:39 PM TJ Trout < t...@voltbb.com > wrote: 



What is everyone else doing for these dmca notices? 


this whole thing is a s*** situation because they will not pay to process the 
requests but if you don't process the requests you lose your safe harbor status 
and then become liable. 


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 12:22 PM Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



this is settled law, if you get the fine, you will pay it or close your doors. 
its pretty simple 




On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:45 PM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net 
> wrote: 




Sure. But I kick them off - they go to someone else, then they go to someone 
else. 


If you come to me with a legitimate request and pay reasonable research fees 
sure we will take care if it, but we aren’t a charity. 



On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 








They hope that loss of safe harbor under DMCA and headlines about $1 billion 
jury awards will scare ISPs into kicking pirates off their networks. 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/19/21030812/cox-communications-record-labels-lawsuit-appeal-1-billion-piracy-isp-charter
 

(and that was about songs, not videos) 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 7:02 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent 

Sounds like a job for Wispa. 

Sent from my iPhone 






On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:37 PM, TJ Trout < t...@voltbb.com > wrote: 







Law enforcement pays as well. Lookup the rates the big boys charge the police 
for these requests. They have pricing tables just like every other product they 
sell.. 



On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:55 PM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > 
wrote: 




I’m not a fan. But unless it’s law enforcement you need to pay for 
administrative time. 






On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 







Supposedly IP Echelon has a reputation for sending bogus claims, or not doing 
the due diligence required by the DMCA. Although in some of those cases, they 
claimed it was a scam impersonating them. 
https://torrentfreak.com/isp-wants-us-marshals-to-help-serve-piracy-tracking-outfit-180528/
 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 2:39 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent 




I was always very cooperative. Not a fan of IP infringement. But yeah, I let 
the customer know they had to fix the problem. 






From: Darin Steffl 

Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 1:32 PM 

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent 




Give it up Matt!! 



You know they won't pay so just ignore their emails. 








On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:16 PM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > 
wrote: 


Exactly. We won’t provide details without a court order. And without payment we 
aren’t going to research anything. 

> On Aug 1, 2020, at 1:59 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 
> 
> So do I u

Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

[Steve Jones]

thats on the list when the world stops burning

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 4:02 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Do those strict bank sites support IPv6?
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:50:40 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>
> We have slowly been deploying all our new IP space to eliminate NAT. Bank
> websites have been getting really strict about NAT IPs anymore
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:40 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>
>> Same as Steve, though we don’t have NAT customers so we can identify all
>> of them.
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> On Aug 6, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>> we use powercode. The dmca notices are forwarded to the powercode ticket
>> system from our abuse email. If the listed IP is not a NAT IP we assign the
>> ticket as viewable to the customer so its tied to their account. we leave
>> it open for a week then close it if the customer chooses not to follow up.
>> If a customer has 3 or more notices in a year, we restrict their access
>> until they verify they have read it, we have rough script that says
>> basically We are required to forward this to you, we are unable to discuss
>> it as it is between them and a third party. If they need any advice we
>> recommend they contact an attorney.
>>
>> If it is a NAT IP we update and close the unassigned ticket with the same
>> words "NAT IP, UNABLE TO IDENTIFY CUSTOMER" This meets our burden of
>> responsibility and maintains record of all notices and our active attempt
>> (while minimal) to respond.
>>
>> If we get a customer who continually gets these notices, we will have an
>> administrative discussion and notify the customer of whatever our decision
>> is (hint: it will 99 percent of the time be to do nothing other than repeat
>> the script)
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 2:39 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>
>>> What is everyone else doing for these dmca notices?
>>>
>>> this whole thing is a s*** situation because they will not pay to
>>> process the requests but if you don't process the requests you lose your
>>> safe harbor status and then become liable.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 12:22 PM Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 this is settled law, if you get the fine, you will pay it or close your
 doors. its pretty simple


 On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:45 PM Matt Hoppes <
 mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:

> Sure. But I kick them off - they go to someone else, then they go to
> someone else.
>
> If you come to me with a legitimate request and pay reasonable
> research fees sure we will take care if it, but we aren’t a charity.
>
> On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> They hope that loss of safe harbor under DMCA and headlines about $1
> billion jury awards will scare ISPs into kicking pirates off their 
> networks.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/19/21030812/cox-communications-record-labels-lawsuit-appeal-1-billion-piracy-isp-charter
>
>
>
> (and that was about songs, not videos)
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, August 1, 2020 7:02 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>
>
>
> Sounds like a job for Wispa.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:37 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Law enforcement pays as well. Lookup the rates the big boys charge the
> police for these requests. They have pricing tables just like every other
> product they sell..
>
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> I’m not a fan. But unless it’s law enforcement you need to pay for
> administrative time.
>
>
>
> On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Supposedly IP Echelon has a reputation for sending bogus claims, or
> not doing the due diligence required by the DMCA.  Although in some of
> those cases, they claimed it was a scam impersonating them.
>
>
> https://torrentfreak.com/isp-wants-us-marshals-to-help-serve-piracy-tracking-outfit-18

Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[chuck]

I guess we have settled on a UBNT router on one end and a UBNT switch on the 
other.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:56 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

We are in the same boat looking at switches for everything migrating to fiber. 
I love my HP procurves, but getting into more than a handful of SFP+ ports gets 
us way far from hundreds of dollars per switch. I dont consider netonix because 
I like unfried gear and ports, theyre like a running ubiquiti beta. 
Im curious about these plantronics
I was leary of looking at the cambium solutions due to price, but thinking 
about it, we run packetflux and at 250 per 4 radios, going to a poe out switch 
too is worth looking at, but i love packetflux, so im torn. I like keeping my 
power and sync independent and not having it comingled with pps and throughput

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:18 PM  wrote:

  Yes, in the UBNT switch it has 2 of each.  

  From: Cassidy B. Larson 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:53 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

  Does your wiring closet switch(es) have SFP/SFP+ ports? If so, just use that 
on that side.  



On Aug 6, 2020, at 1:46 PM,   wrote:

I have a C.O. on one end and and my main building wiring closet on the 
other.  Wiring closet has 72 ethernet switch ports in it.
It also currently has servers.  I want to first and foremost move the 
servers to the other location.

From: Carl Peterson 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:07 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

I think what people are getting at here is what else do you want to do with 
the switches?   

1G?  10G?  100G SFP interfaces? Quantity of each you are looking for.
1G Copper port count?
POE for cameras etc?  if so, what type.  


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 1:58 PM  wrote:

  Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two boxes.  Now, what goes on the 
end of the fiber?



  From: TJ Trout 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

  Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off list!

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM  wrote:

Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had 
good luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look 
Netonix may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but most 
of them don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both ends so I 
can do AC but I just didn’t want to.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:

  Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one 
end are a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and 
the media converter at the other.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

  We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they 
make industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.

  On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:

I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on 
both ends with an SFP.  
48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do 
Netonix but I would like to hear opinions.  
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  325-439-0533 Cell

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PORT NETWORKS
401 E Pratt St

Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

[chuck]

Yeah, he is a charter member.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

nobody gets to block jaime

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 6:35 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:

  Not a thing you can say will change my honest belief that this clown has 
really hurt our country and caused a lot of pain.  Block me if you wish, but if 
he was in front of me, I would slap him.  Not punch him ..I save those for men 


  On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 4:23 PM  wrote:

Antifa laser.

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 3:02 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

Person behind holding the object. Debunked

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:55 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

  Looks like a mirage to me.



bp


On 8/5/2020 1:47 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Ha...my friend is analyzing it...he has cool toys and software plus 
expertise.

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:02 PM  wrote:

  That’s what covid looks like in the wild.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:52 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

  Intriguing...not a lens flare

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Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

[Mike Hammett]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4stTX7rmAFY 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 4:03:22 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent 


thats on the list when the world stops burning 


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 4:02 PM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




Do those strict bank sites support IPv6? 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Steve Jones" < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:50:40 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent 


We have slowly been deploying all our new IP space to eliminate NAT. Bank 
websites have been getting really strict about NAT IPs anymore 


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:40 PM Mark Radabaugh < m...@amplex.net > wrote: 



Same as Steve, though we don’t have NAT customers so we can identify all of 
them. 


Mark 





On Aug 6, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 


we use powercode. The dmca notices are forwarded to the powercode ticket system 
from our abuse email. If the listed IP is not a NAT IP we assign the ticket as 
viewable to the customer so its tied to their account. we leave it open for a 
week then close it if the customer chooses not to follow up. If a customer has 
3 or more notices in a year, we restrict their access until they verify they 
have read it, we have rough script that says basically We are required to 
forward this to you, we are unable to discuss it as it is between them and a 
third party. If they need any advice we recommend they contact an attorney. 


If it is a NAT IP we update and close the unassigned ticket with the same words 
"NAT IP, UNABLE TO IDENTIFY CUSTOMER" This meets our burden of responsibility 
and maintains record of all notices and our active attempt (while minimal) to 
respond. 


If we get a customer who continually gets these notices, we will have an 
administrative discussion and notify the customer of whatever our decision is 
(hint: it will 99 percent of the time be to do nothing other than repeat the 
script) 


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 2:39 PM TJ Trout < t...@voltbb.com > wrote: 



What is everyone else doing for these dmca notices? 


this whole thing is a s*** situation because they will not pay to process the 
requests but if you don't process the requests you lose your safe harbor status 
and then become liable. 


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 12:22 PM Steve Jones < thatoneguyst...@gmail.com > wrote: 



this is settled law, if you get the fine, you will pay it or close your doors. 
its pretty simple 




On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:45 PM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net 
> wrote: 




Sure. But I kick them off - they go to someone else, then they go to someone 
else. 


If you come to me with a legitimate request and pay reasonable research fees 
sure we will take care if it, but we aren’t a charity. 



On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 








They hope that loss of safe harbor under DMCA and headlines about $1 billion 
jury awards will scare ISPs into kicking pirates off their networks. 

https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/19/21030812/cox-communications-record-labels-lawsuit-appeal-1-billion-piracy-isp-charter
 

(and that was about songs, not videos) 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 7:02 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent 

Sounds like a job for Wispa. 

Sent from my iPhone 






On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:37 PM, TJ Trout < t...@voltbb.com > wrote: 







Law enforcement pays as well. Lookup the rates the big boys charge the police 
for these requests. They have pricing tables just like every other product they 
sell.. 



On Sat, Aug 1, 2020, 1:55 PM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > 
wrote: 




I’m not a fan. But unless it’s law enforcement you need to pay for 
administrative time. 






On Aug 1, 2020, at 4:46 PM, Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 







Supposedly IP Echelon has a reputation for sending bogus claims, or not doing 
the due diligence required by the DMCA. Although in some of those cases, they 
claimed it was a scam impersonating them. 
https://torrentfreak.com/isp-wants-us-marshals-to-help-serve-piracy-tracking-outfit-180528/
 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Saturday, August 1, 2020 2:39 PM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent 




I was always very cooperative. Not a fan of IP infringement. But yeah, I let 
the customer know they had to fix the problem. 






From: Darin Steffl 

Sent: Saturday, Aug

Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

[Mike Meluskey]

Chuck, are you going to continue to allow political rants?
If so, I will unsubscribe.
Don’t need this crap from either side.

Mike Meluskey

On 6 Aug 2020, at 17:06, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


Yeah, he is a charter member.

From: Steve Jones
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

nobody gets to block jaime

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 6:35 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:


  Not a thing you can say will change my honest belief that this clown 
has really hurt our country and caused a lot of pain.  Block me if you 
wish, but if he was in front of me, I would slap him.  Not punch him 
..I save those for men



  On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 4:23 PM  wrote:

Antifa laser.

From: Jaime Solorza
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 3:02 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

Person behind holding the object. Debunked

On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:55 PM Bill Prince  
wrote:


  Looks like a mirage to me.



bp


On 8/5/2020 1:47 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

Ha...my friend is analyzing it...he has cool toys and software 
plus expertise.


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:02 PM  wrote:

  That’s what covid looks like in the wild.

  From: Jaime Solorza
  Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:52 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

  Intriguing...not a lens flare

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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Carl Peterson]

At risk of being outed as a fake network designer, I'm actually pretty
happy with Unifi SDNs.  We run them for managed networks and they are
pretty robust.  I say that and next thing you know my server/software guy
is going to start flaming me...

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 4:06 PM  wrote:

> I guess we have settled on a UBNT router on one end and a UBNT switch on
> the other.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:56 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>
> We are in the same boat looking at switches for everything migrating to
> fiber. I love my HP procurves, but getting into more than a handful of SFP+
> ports gets us way far from hundreds of dollars per switch. I dont consider
> netonix because I like unfried gear and ports, theyre like a running
> ubiquiti beta.
> Im curious about these plantronics
> I was leary of looking at the cambium solutions due to price, but thinking
> about it, we run packetflux and at 250 per 4 radios, going to a poe out
> switch too is worth looking at, but i love packetflux, so im torn. I like
> keeping my power and sync independent and not having it comingled with pps
> and throughput
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:18 PM  wrote:
>
>> Yes, in the UBNT switch it has 2 of each.
>>
>> *From:* Cassidy B. Larson
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:53 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>
>> Does your wiring closet switch(es) have SFP/SFP+ ports? If so, just use
>> that on that side.
>>
>>
>> On Aug 6, 2020, at 1:46 PM,   wrote:
>>
>> I have a C.O. on one end and and my main building wiring closet on the
>> other.  Wiring closet has 72 ethernet switch ports in it.
>> It also currently has servers.  I want to first and foremost move the
>> servers to the other location.
>>
>> *From:* Carl Peterson
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:07 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>
>> I think what people are getting at here is what else do you want to do
>> with the switches?
>>
>> 1G?  10G?  100G SFP interfaces? Quantity of each you are looking for.
>> 1G Copper port count?
>> POE for cameras etc?  if so, what type.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 1:58 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two boxes.  Now, what goes on the
>>> end of the fiber?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>>
>>> Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off list!
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM  wrote:
>>>
 Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had
 good luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look
 Netonix may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but
 most of them don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both
 ends so I can do AC but I just didn’t want to.

 *From:* Lewis Bergman
 *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

 They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.

 On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:

> Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one
> end are a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one 
> end
> and the media converter at the other.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>
> We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make
> industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:
>
>> I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on
>> both ends with an SFP.
>> 48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do
>> Netonix but I would like to hear opinions.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Lewis Bergman
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Matt]

> I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both ends 
> with an SFP.
> 48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix but 
> I would like to hear opinions.

Why not MikroTik CRS rack mount with SFP or SFP+ ports?

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Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent

[TJ Trout]

I was reading, in case law that if you have a sub with multiple dmca
notices and you have no history of terminating customers for
repeat violations your safe harbor status is gone.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 2:08 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4stTX7rmAFY
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Thursday, August 6, 2020 4:03:22 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>
> thats on the list when the world stops burning
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 4:02 PM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> Do those strict bank sites support IPv6?
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:50:40 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] IP Echelon Delinquent
>>
>> We have slowly been deploying all our new IP space to eliminate NAT. Bank
>> websites have been getting really strict about NAT IPs anymore
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 3:40 PM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>>
>>> Same as Steve, though we don’t have NAT customers so we can identify all
>>> of them.
>>>
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Aug 6, 2020, at 4:12 PM, Steve Jones 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> we use powercode. The dmca notices are forwarded to the powercode ticket
>>> system from our abuse email. If the listed IP is not a NAT IP we assign the
>>> ticket as viewable to the customer so its tied to their account. we leave
>>> it open for a week then close it if the customer chooses not to follow up.
>>> If a customer has 3 or more notices in a year, we restrict their access
>>> until they verify they have read it, we have rough script that says
>>> basically We are required to forward this to you, we are unable to discuss
>>> it as it is between them and a third party. If they need any advice we
>>> recommend they contact an attorney.
>>>
>>> If it is a NAT IP we update and close the unassigned ticket with the
>>> same words "NAT IP, UNABLE TO IDENTIFY CUSTOMER" This meets our burden of
>>> responsibility and maintains record of all notices and our active attempt
>>> (while minimal) to respond.
>>>
>>> If we get a customer who continually gets these notices, we will have an
>>> administrative discussion and notify the customer of whatever our decision
>>> is (hint: it will 99 percent of the time be to do nothing other than repeat
>>> the script)
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 2:39 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>>>
 What is everyone else doing for these dmca notices?

 this whole thing is a s*** situation because they will not pay to
 process the requests but if you don't process the requests you lose your
 safe harbor status and then become liable.

 On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 12:22 PM Steve Jones 
 wrote:

> this is settled law, if you get the fine, you will pay it or close
> your doors. its pretty simple
>
>
> On Sat, Aug 1, 2020 at 7:45 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> Sure. But I kick them off - they go to someone else, then they go to
>> someone else.
>>
>> If you come to me with a legitimate request and pay reasonable
>> research fees sure we will take care if it, but we aren’t a charity.
>>
>> On Aug 1, 2020, at 8:25 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> They hope that loss of safe harbor under DMCA and headlines about $1
>> billion jury awards will scare ISPs into kicking pirates off their 
>> networks.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.theverge.com/2019/12/19/21030812/cox-communications-record-labels-lawsuit-appeal-1-billion-piracy-isp-charter
>>
>>
>>
>> (and that wa

Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

[chuck]

This is mild compared to almost 4 years ago.  
OT is a good filter against this kind of stuff.  

But we do all loosely agree to follow the lent rules.
No political content during lent.  
And we will let everyone know when lent is over.
Which will probably be never.  

But the list is heavy to the right.  In some cases alt-right.  And then we have 
our standard bearers of Jaime, Ken and Bill that try to balance the rest of us 
out now and then.  

And I am the worst offender lately posting provocative things that I think are 
fun or thought provoking.  

But what is political?  Covid certainly has a political side but the 
practicalities of keeping everyone healthy is not outside the bounds of what I 
consider reasonable.  And we are a social group.  Been hanging around many on 
this list for almost 20 years, back to the part-15 days.  So we do tease and 
give each other crap from time to time, all in mostly good fun.

Yeah, presidential politics needs to be left out.  But we are by-and-large 
pretty self policing.

So I would say, if it gets too much, filter it, block it or unsub.  
Sorry, not going to do much other than to ask folks to keep it down if it gets 
cranked up too much.  And again, for those that just want the technical 
content, look for stuff without the OT.  

This list is an expense for me personally.  I don’t benefit financially other 
than to occasionally hawk my goods. 
Did this answer the question?

From: Mike Meluskey 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:18 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

Chuck, are you going to continue to allow political rants?
If so, I will unsubscribe.
Don’t need this crap from either side.

Mike Meluskey

On 6 Aug 2020, at 17:06, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Yeah, he is a charter member.  

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:57 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

  nobody gets to block jaime

  On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 6:35 PM Jaime Solorza  
wrote:

Not a thing you can say will change my honest belief that this clown has 
really hurt our country and caused a lot of pain.  Block me if you wish, but if 
he was in front of me, I would slap him.  Not punch him ..I save those for men 


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 4:23 PM  wrote:

  Antifa laser.

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 3:02 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

  Person behind holding the object. Debunked

  On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:55 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

Looks like a mirage to me.



bp


On 8/5/2020 1:47 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

  Ha...my friend is analyzing it...he has cool toys and software plus 
expertise.

  On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:02 PM  wrote:

That’s what covid looks like in the wild.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

Intriguing...not a lens flare


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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[chuck]

I think that may be what one of my guys ordered.  He was trying to decide 
between MT and UBNT.


-Original Message- 
From: Matt

Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:34 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both 
ends with an SFP.
48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix 
but I would like to hear opinions.


Why not MikroTik CRS rack mount with SFP or SFP+ ports?

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Re: [AFMUG] COVID Exposure and the real world

[Matt Hoppes]

Keep in mind that that could be a false positive as well there are a lot of 
both false negatives and false positives on the test. Unless they perform 
several more tests you will never know for sure.

> On Aug 6, 2020, at 4:06 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> 
> So, the wife has a good probability of infection. She works at a hospital as 
> PCT (used to be CNA before PC). Patient came in with high likelihood of 
> COVID, Isolation protocols were put in place, initial test came back 
> negative, they pulled precautions. Still using basic surgical masks and 
> gloves (says right on box that it doesnt stop COVID-19). Patient is on 
> assistive ventilation, aerosolized secretions.
> Doctor snaps and orders new test, of course it comes back positive.
> So now multiple staff are exposed, the bad kind with aerosolized secretions, 
> thats the healthcare exposure they warn about.
> Of course today the hospital changes policy to mandatory eye protection (bit 
> late knuckleheads)
> inept
> 
> I could co on about how pissed I am about this, and the fact that theyre not 
> offering testing to exposed employees, and that the WHO recommendation is 
> healthcare staff continue coming into work until they show symptoms, and the 
> fact that staff wear the same mask for 12 hours and are scolded if they want 
> to change them even though mask production is sufficient to support anything 
> that comes at healthcare now. but thats a whole other rant.
> 
> Moving forward we are treating the household as probably infected. Sons 
> baptism sunday is postponed. But trying to figure timelines and how to handle 
> exposure risks at my job. Trying to read up on all the current politically 
> motivated data is a joke. Best I can tell is transmissibility minimum is 3 
> days, based on the newest harvard study. So assuming wife did get it, we have 
> 3 days from initial exposure for her to infect me and 3 days after that that 
> in transmissible, so working on a minimum  6 day window until I have to shut 
> down contact.
> 
> I already notified everybody that If I come in for anything (primarily 
> working remote anyway) that ill be masked and gloved (lol, cloth masks from 
> her insurance provider) and wont be within 6 feet of anybody.
> 
> After the 6 days until she is cleared, I wont be making in person contact 
> with anyone. If I enter the office, masked and gloved, sanitize everything as 
> i come out. We already have staff separation, with different entrances for 
> everyone. No one inside at the same time as me, ill try to limit in office to 
> after hours. Any equipment I touch will be masked and gloved, will be placed 
> in out non air conditioned garage (gets hot) for 24 hours before any other 
> staff touches it and will be sanitized.
> 
> My site work (assuming no positive tests or symptoms in my house) will be 
> limited to me only and exterior work only, unmanned locations only, If any at 
> risk climbing is required of me, a second ground 911 man present, in vehicle 
> only. I I have to supervise any work, It will be from an isolated location. 
> Any site area I am in is not to be entered for 24 hours.
> 
> Any symptoms or positive tests in my house and we go on full quarantine.
> 
> Ive made it abundantly clear that I think this whole thing is blown out of 
> proportion, the masks are nothing more than something to make people feel 
> like theyre doing something, even though theyre really not effective and come 
> fall theyll be massive bacterial breeding grounds. But there is due 
> diligence, and I think this plan of attack is pretty reasonable. It mitigates 
> any risk while allowing us to maintain productivity (assuming no symptoms or 
> positive tests). It feels like its something with minimal major company 
> impact and id easy to replicate given that my spouse works in healthcare and 
> this likely wont be the last high risk exposure. But I still am not matt 
> hoppes level.
> 
> At this time, I havent had any "exposure" but there is a probable looming 
> exposure. I'm personally relieved that its probably in my house now, and we 
> have time to prepare for the inevitable. Im high risk because of COPD, so 
> theres that, but Ive already made right with that. Id rather just get it over 
> with, I had planned to get exposed a while back to get past it but got that 
> plan taken out from under me.
> 
> We may "luck out" and this exposure was a near miss, but if transmissibility 
> is anywhere near what the politics say it is, this ones all but certain. 
> 
> I think the 6 day window is a logical one to increase precautions until we 
> are past it. I think the non contact addresses any risk to coworkers. I think 
> the timeframe between shared surface/inventory contact is reasonable and 
> "science based". and after 14 days from the last exposure (she was exposed 
> over two consecutive 12 hour shifts) is a good window for increased 
> precautions to be in play, with a review and swap test at the drive through 
> sit

Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Bill Prince]

If you're going need to use VLANs, I would steer away from MT. Their 
VLAN configuration on their switches is a bit more complicated than it 
needs to be.


bp


On 8/6/2020 2:34 PM, Matt wrote:

I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both ends 
with an SFP.
48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix but I 
would like to hear opinions.

Why not MikroTik CRS rack mount with SFP or SFP+ ports?



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Good news?

[Josh Luthman]

Did you read that?  It says that more cases of COVID19 get more funding.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:10 AM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> Josh,
>
> I'm surprised to find you supporting my point.
>
> "The first round of grants will be distributed based on historical share
> Medicare revenue, not based on COVID-19 burden. Therefore, hard-hit states
> like New York will receive far less per COVID-19 case than most other
> states.
>
> HHS said it doled out the first slice of funding based on Medicare revenue
> to get support to hospitals as quickly as possible. The agency said
>  the next round of grants
> "will focus on providers in areas particularly impacted by the COVID-19
> outbreak," rural hospitals and other healthcare providers that receive much
> of their revenues from Medicaid."
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:03 AM Josh Luthman 
> wrote:
>
>> >implying that there is some economic incentive to report more positive
>> cases.  As far as I can tell, this is not the case whatsoever.
>>
>>
>> https://www.beckershospitalreview.com/finance/state-by-state-breakdown-of-federal-aid-per-covid-19-case.html
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:01 AM Carl Peterson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Lewis, It seems that you are still implying that there is some economic
>>> incentive to report more positive cases.  As far as I can tell, this is not
>>> the case whatsoever.  That may not be your intent, but the structure of
>>> your sentence "I merely quesited about there being some misguided economic
>>> incentive, ..." vs something like " I merely quesited whether there may be
>>> some misguided economic incentive, ..." suggests that the incentive
>>> exists.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 8:26 AM Lewis Bergman 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 
 WTF don't you people understand? How many times do I have to state I am
 NOT trying to state, imply, or propagate that there is a conspiracy to
 inflate, deflate, or otherwise misreport the numbers?

 I'll state again, for I hope the very last time:
 Anecdotal information I have personal knowledge of to be true, that
 there is over reporting in this oh so tiny subset of data. I am sure there
 is misreporting of positive cases as negative. I merely quesited about
 there being some misguided economic incentive, put in place with the best
 intentions but possibly mistakenly incentivizing testing facilities, to
 report positive cases. I have no idea why such a policy would be put in
 place.

 Whatever, this whole thing has just driven people crazy.

 If you think you are gonna get sick, stay isolated. If your grandmother
 is fragile, she should stay isolated. If you are healthy, or just don't
 care anymore, do whatever the $%@& you want.
 
 Other than that, it is going to be mighty hot out there today.


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Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[chuck]

I think everything can be on the same lan.  It is now.  Just remoting the 
servers for now.


-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:59 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

If you're going need to use VLANs, I would steer away from MT. Their
VLAN configuration on their switches is a bit more complicated than it
needs to be.

bp


On 8/6/2020 2:34 PM, Matt wrote:
I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on both 
ends with an SFP.
48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do Netonix 
but I would like to hear opinions.

Why not MikroTik CRS rack mount with SFP or SFP+ ports?



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

[Mike Meluskey]

Yes.
I respect you and your list.
If others decide throw temper tantrums and pollute the list with their 
unsolicited political philosophies, I will unsubscribe and come back in 
November.

Thanks
Mike

On 6 Aug 2020, at 17:53, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


This is mild compared to almost 4 years ago.
OT is a good filter against this kind of stuff.

But we do all loosely agree to follow the lent rules.
No political content during lent.
And we will let everyone know when lent is over.
Which will probably be never.

But the list is heavy to the right.  In some cases alt-right.  And 
then we have our standard bearers of Jaime, Ken and Bill that try to 
balance the rest of us out now and then.


And I am the worst offender lately posting provocative things that I 
think are fun or thought provoking.


But what is political?  Covid certainly has a political side but the 
practicalities of keeping everyone healthy is not outside the bounds 
of what I consider reasonable.  And we are a social group.  Been 
hanging around many on this list for almost 20 years, back to the 
part-15 days.  So we do tease and give each other crap from time to 
time, all in mostly good fun.


Yeah, presidential politics needs to be left out.  But we are 
by-and-large pretty self policing.


So I would say, if it gets too much, filter it, block it or unsub.
Sorry, not going to do much other than to ask folks to keep it down if 
it gets cranked up too much.  And again, for those that just want the 
technical content, look for stuff without the OT.


This list is an expense for me personally.  I don’t benefit 
financially other than to occasionally hawk my goods.

Did this answer the question?

From: Mike Meluskey
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:18 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

Chuck, are you going to continue to allow political rants?
If so, I will unsubscribe.
Don’t need this crap from either side.

Mike Meluskey

On 6 Aug 2020, at 17:06, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Yeah, he is a charter member.

  From: Steve Jones
  Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:57 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

  nobody gets to block jaime

  On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 6:35 PM Jaime Solorza 
 wrote:


Not a thing you can say will change my honest belief that this 
clown has really hurt our country and caused a lot of pain.  Block me 
if you wish, but if he was in front of me, I would slap him.  Not 
punch him ..I save those for men



On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 4:23 PM  wrote:

  Antifa laser.

  From: Jaime Solorza
  Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 3:02 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

  Person behind holding the object. Debunked

  On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:55 PM Bill Prince  
wrote:


Looks like a mirage to me.



bp


On 8/5/2020 1:47 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

  Ha...my friend is analyzing it...he has cool toys and 
software plus expertise.


  On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:02 PM  wrote:

That’s what covid looks like in the wild.

From: Jaime Solorza
Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:52 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

Intriguing...not a lens flare


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Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

[Chuck McCown]

Might take about 6 months longer than that...

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 6, 2020, at 4:19 PM, Mike Meluskey  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes.
> I respect you and your list.
> If others decide throw temper tantrums and pollute the list with their 
> unsolicited political philosophies, I will unsubscribe and come back in 
> November.
> Thanks
> Mike
> 
> On 6 Aug 2020, at 17:53, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> This is mild compared to almost 4 years ago. 
> OT is a good filter against this kind of stuff. 
>  
> But we do all loosely agree to follow the lent rules.
> No political content during lent. 
> And we will let everyone know when lent is over.
> Which will probably be never. 
>  
> But the list is heavy to the right.  In some cases alt-right.  And then we 
> have our standard bearers of Jaime, Ken and Bill that try to balance the rest 
> of us out now and then. 
>  
> And I am the worst offender lately posting provocative things that I think 
> are fun or thought provoking. 
>  
> But what is political?  Covid certainly has a political side but the 
> practicalities of keeping everyone healthy is not outside the bounds of what 
> I consider reasonable.  And we are a social group.  Been hanging around many 
> on this list for almost 20 years, back to the part-15 days.  So we do tease 
> and give each other crap from time to time, all in mostly good fun.
>  
> Yeah, presidential politics needs to be left out.  But we are by-and-large 
> pretty self policing.   
>  
> So I would say, if it gets too much, filter it, block it or unsub. 
> Sorry, not going to do much other than to ask folks to keep it down if it 
> gets cranked up too much.  And again, for those that just want the technical 
> content, look for stuff without the OT. 
>  
> This list is an expense for me personally.  I don’t benefit financially other 
> than to occasionally hawk my goods.
> Did this answer the question?
>  
> From: Mike Meluskey
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:18 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>  
> Chuck, are you going to continue to allow political rants?
> If so, I will unsubscribe.
> Don’t need this crap from either side.
> 
> Mike Meluskey
> 
> On 6 Aug 2020, at 17:06, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> Yeah, he is a charter member. 
>  
> From: Steve Jones
> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:57 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>  
> nobody gets to block jaime
>  
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 6:35 PM Jaime Solorza  
> wrote:
>> Not a thing you can say will change my honest belief that this clown has 
>> really hurt our country and caused a lot of pain.  Block me if you wish, but 
>> if he was in front of me, I would slap him.  Not punch him ..I save those 
>> for men
>>  
>>  
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 4:23 PM  wrote:
>>> Antifa laser.
>>>  
>>> From: Jaime Solorza
>>> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 3:02 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>>>  
>>> Person behind holding the object. Debunked
>>>  
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:55 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
 Looks like a mirage to me.
 
  
 
 bp
 
 
> On 8/5/2020 1:47 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
> Ha...my friend is analyzing it...he has cool toys and software plus 
> expertise.
>  
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:02 PM  wrote:
>> That’s what covid looks like in the wild. 
>>  
>> From: Jaime Solorza
>> Sent: Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:52 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>>  
>> Intriguing...not a lens flare
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Make sure it's the end of November. Although, it's beginning to
  look like this might stretch into December or January.

bp



On 8/6/2020 3:18 PM, Mike Meluskey
  wrote:


  
  

  Yes.
I respect you and your list.
If others decide throw temper tantrums and pollute the list
with their unsolicited political philosophies, I will
unsubscribe and come back in November.
Thanks
Mike
  On 6 Aug 2020, at 17:53, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


  

  

  This is mild compared to almost 4 years ago.  
  OT is a good filter against this kind of stuff. 
  
   
  But we do all loosely agree to follow the lent
rules.
  No political content during lent.  
  And we will let everyone know when lent is over.
  Which will probably be never.  
   
  But the list is heavy to the right.  In some
cases alt-right.  And then we have our standard
bearers of Jaime, Ken and Bill that try to balance
the rest of us out now and then.  
   
  And I am the worst offender lately posting
provocative things that I think are fun or thought
provoking.  
   
  But what is political?  Covid certainly has a
political side but the practicalities of keeping
everyone healthy is not outside the bounds of what I
consider reasonable.  And we are a social group. 
Been hanging around many on this list for almost 20
years, back to the part-15 days.  So we do tease and
give each other crap from time to time, all in
mostly good fun.
   
  Yeah, presidential politics needs to be left
out.  But we are by-and-large pretty self
policing.    
   
  So I would say, if it gets too much, filter it,
block it or unsub.  
  Sorry, not going to do much other than to ask
folks to keep it down if it gets cranked up too
much.  And again, for those that just want the
technical content, look for stuff without the OT.  
   
  This list is an expense for me personally.  I
don’t benefit financially other than to occasionally
hawk my goods. 
  Did this answer the question?
  

   
  
From: Mike Meluskey 
Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:18
  PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
  

 
  
  

  
Chuck, are you going to continue to allow
  political rants?
  If so, I will unsubscribe.
  Don’t need this crap from either side.
Mike Meluskey
On 6 Aug 2020, at 17:06, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:
  
  

  

  
Yeah, he is a charter member.  

  
 

  From:
Steve
  Jones 
  Sent: Thursday, August
6, 2020 2:57 PM
  To: AnimalFarm
  Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG]
OT: ideas?

  
   


  nobody gets to block
jaime
   
  
  

Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

[Jaime Solorza]

Ha.  I save the best pictures for myself...you guys might look at them with
one hand.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:37 PM  wrote:

> Better than Jaime’s weather girls IMHO.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:29 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>
>
> On the topic of “some hotties around when we get older”, YouTube thought I
> would be interested in some live Bangles concerts and interviews.
> Apparently the band reformed and there are some videos from 2008-2019.
> Susanna Hoffs was always a hottie, and I’d say still is.
>
>
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhhguGo2pA
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Brian Webster
> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 2:54 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>
>
>
> Ken I don’t know what is funnier, but the fact you know that reference
> about the milkshake and boys to the back yard had me rolling. Thanks guys
> for the thread and the laugh today! And Martha looked good in that shot.
> Gives a guy hope that it is possible to still have some hotties around when
> we get older….. Retirement communities like The Villages in Florida I guess
> can be fun places.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.villages-news.com/2019/05/04/villages-101-whats-the-truth-behind-urban-legend-of-stds-in-the-villages/
>
>
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Brian Webster
>
> www.wirelessmapping.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 1:57 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>
>
>
> Gotta be careful not to mix your metaphors, or someone could get the idea
> you’re referring to the sort of milkshake that brings all the boys to the
> yard.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 12:46 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>
>
>
> I do check google news about 5-10 times a day.  And I have been known to
> click on a pretty face.
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 10:43 AM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>
>
>
> If you are following Martha Stewart or Chelsea Handler, you have too much
> time on your hands.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 10:37 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>
>
>
> Yeah, my son was posing me.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 9:33 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>
>
>
> Then you should have tilted your head back so we could see up your nose
> into the prime swab area.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 8/3/2020 8:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Yeah, that was pretty vague.  There was some clickbait news where 74 or
> whatever year old Martha Stewart did a selfie from a pool looking all sexy
> etc.
>
> So Chelsea Handler knocked off the same look in a selfie pool shot.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.delish.com/food-news/a33408284/chelsea-handler-martha-stewart-photo/
>
>
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>
> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 9:02 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>
>
>
> Maybe it's because it's Monday, but I don't get it.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone--
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

[Jaime Solorza]

But I like Susana Hoffs

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 4:40 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Ha.  I save the best pictures for myself...you guys might look at them
> with one hand.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:37 PM  wrote:
>
>> Better than Jaime’s weather girls IMHO.
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:29 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>
>>
>> On the topic of “some hotties around when we get older”, YouTube thought
>> I would be interested in some live Bangles concerts and interviews.
>> Apparently the band reformed and there are some videos from 2008-2019.
>> Susanna Hoffs was always a hottie, and I’d say still is.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhhguGo2pA
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Brian Webster
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 2:54 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>
>>
>>
>> Ken I don’t know what is funnier, but the fact you know that reference
>> about the milkshake and boys to the back yard had me rolling. Thanks guys
>> for the thread and the laugh today! And Martha looked good in that shot.
>> Gives a guy hope that it is possible to still have some hotties around when
>> we get older….. Retirement communities like The Villages in Florida I guess
>> can be fun places.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.villages-news.com/2019/05/04/villages-101-whats-the-truth-behind-urban-legend-of-stds-in-the-villages/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> Brian Webster
>>
>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 1:57 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>
>>
>>
>> Gotta be careful not to mix your metaphors, or someone could get the idea
>> you’re referring to the sort of milkshake that brings all the boys to the
>> yard.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 12:46 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>
>>
>>
>> I do check google news about 5-10 times a day.  And I have been known to
>> click on a pretty face.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 10:43 AM
>>
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are following Martha Stewart or Chelsea Handler, you have too much
>> time on your hands.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 10:37 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, my son was posing me.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 9:33 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>
>>
>>
>> Then you should have tilted your head back so we could see up your nose
>> into the prime swab area.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/3/2020 8:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Yeah, that was pretty vague.  There was some clickbait news where 74 or
>> whatever year old Martha Stewart did a selfie from a pool looking all sexy
>> etc.
>>
>> So Chelsea Handler knocked off the same look in a selfie pool shot.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.delish.com/food-news/a33408284/chelsea-handler-martha-stewart-photo/
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 9:02 AM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>
>>
>>
>> Maybe it's because it's Monday, but I don't get it.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone--
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Lewis Bergman
>>
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

Well, duh!

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

> On Aug 6, 2020, at 7:01 PM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:
> 
> 
> But I like Susana Hoffs
> 
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 4:40 PM Jaime Solorza  wrote:
>> Ha.  I save the best pictures for myself...you guys might look at them with 
>> one hand.
>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 2:37 PM  wrote:
>>> Better than Jaime’s weather girls IMHO.
>>>  
>>> From: Ken Hohhof
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:29 PM
>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>>  
>>> On the topic of “some hotties around when we get older”, YouTube thought I 
>>> would be interested in some live Bangles concerts and interviews.  
>>> Apparently the band reformed and there are some videos from 2008-2019.  
>>> Susanna Hoffs was always a hottie, and I’d say still is.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxhhguGo2pA
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Brian Webster
>>> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 2:54 PM
>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Ken I don’t know what is funnier, but the fact you know that reference 
>>> about the milkshake and boys to the back yard had me rolling. Thanks guys 
>>> for the thread and the laugh today! And Martha looked good in that shot. 
>>> Gives a guy hope that it is possible to still have some hotties around when 
>>> we get older….. Retirement communities like The Villages in Florida I guess 
>>> can be fun places.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> https://www.villages-news.com/2019/05/04/villages-101-whats-the-truth-behind-urban-legend-of-stds-in-the-villages/
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Thank you,
>>> 
>>> Brian Webster
>>> 
>>> www.wirelessmapping.com
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>>> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 1:57 PM
>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Gotta be careful not to mix your metaphors, or someone could get the idea 
>>> you’re referring to the sort of milkshake that brings all the boys to the 
>>> yard.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 12:46 PM
>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> I do check google news about 5-10 times a day.  And I have been known to 
>>> click on a pretty face. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: Ken Hohhof
>>> 
>>> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 10:43 AM
>>> 
>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> If you are following Martha Stewart or Chelsea Handler, you have too much 
>>> time on your hands.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 10:37 AM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Yeah, my son was posing me.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: Bill Prince
>>> 
>>> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 9:33 AM
>>> 
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Then you should have tilted your head back so we could see up your nose 
>>> into the prime swab area.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>  
>>> On 8/3/2020 8:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yeah, that was pretty vague.  There was some clickbait news where 74 or 
>>> whatever year old Martha Stewart did a selfie from a pool looking all sexy 
>>> etc.
>>> 
>>> So Chelsea Handler knocked off the same look in a selfie pool shot. 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> https://www.delish.com/food-news/a33408284/chelsea-handler-martha-stewart-photo/
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> From: Lewis Bergman
>>> 
>>> Sent: Monday, August 3, 2020 9:02 AM
>>> 
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Martha vs Chelsea
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Maybe it's because it's Monday, but I don't get it.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 8:24 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone-- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> Lewis Bergman
>>> 
>>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
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http://a

Re: [AFMUG] a real af question

[Jaime Solorza]

A local WISP replaced old Cisco switches with Ubiquiti 24 port switches
with fiber ports.  He said they were affordable and solid...
Has 8 in operation...

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 1:07 PM  wrote:

> Multiple devices.  So probably just another UBNT switch and connect the
> two switches with SFPs.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 1:02 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>
>
> Fiber optic transceivers.
>
> What's on the other side of the transceivers? One device, two devices, or
> more?
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 8/6/2020 11:57 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Draw two boxes.  Put fiber between the two boxes.  Now, what goes on the
> end of the fiber?
>
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:56 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>
> Chuck, i'll design it for you :) hit me off list!
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:39 AM  wrote:
>
>> Yeahbut, what would be a good brand.  Are the FS things OK.  I have had
>> good luck with UBNT.  Really don’t want to pay for Cisco.  On second look
>> Netonix may not be the best option.  I would really like 48 vdc power but
>> most of them don’t have that option.  I have sinewave inverters at both
>> ends so I can do AC but I just didn’t want to.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 10:29 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>
>> They make them in a wide variety of capacity and port configs.
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 10:41 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I guess I could do media converters.  But the switches on one end
>>> are a bit old.  I suppose I could put a 48 port POE with SFP on one end and
>>> the media converter at the other.
>>>
>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 9:36 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] a real af question
>>>
>>> We always used Plantronics. They may be out of favor now but they make
>>> industrial switches with DIN mounts that are as small as two ports.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 10:05 AM  wrote:
>>>
 I need to connect two offices with fiber.  Going to put a switch on
 both ends with an SFP.
 48 volts power.  Rack mount.  I need a recommendation.  I may do
 Netonix but I would like to hear opinions.
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lewis Bergman
>>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?

[Steve Jones]

This is the election that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friends, yes
this is the election that never ends I think after 4 hours we are
supposed to call a doctor though

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 5:26 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Make sure it's the end of November. Although, it's beginning to look like
> this might stretch into December or January.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 8/6/2020 3:18 PM, Mike Meluskey wrote:
>
> Yes.
> I respect you and your list.
> If others decide throw temper tantrums and pollute the list with their
> unsolicited political philosophies, I will unsubscribe and come back in
> November.
> Thanks
> Mike
>
> On 6 Aug 2020, at 17:53, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> This is mild compared to almost 4 years ago.
> OT is a good filter against this kind of stuff.
>
> But we do all loosely agree to follow the lent rules.
> No political content during lent.
> And we will let everyone know when lent is over.
> Which will probably be never.
>
> But the list is heavy to the right.  In some cases alt-right.  And then we
> have our standard bearers of Jaime, Ken and Bill that try to balance the
> rest of us out now and then.
>
> And I am the worst offender lately posting provocative things that I think
> are fun or thought provoking.
>
> But what is political?  Covid certainly has a political side but the
> practicalities of keeping everyone healthy is not outside the bounds of
> what I consider reasonable.  And we are a social group.  Been hanging
> around many on this list for almost 20 years, back to the part-15 days.  So
> we do tease and give each other crap from time to time, all in mostly good
> fun.
>
> Yeah, presidential politics needs to be left out.  But we are by-and-large
> pretty self policing.
>
> So I would say, if it gets too much, filter it, block it or unsub.
> Sorry, not going to do much other than to ask folks to keep it down if it
> gets cranked up too much.  And again, for those that just want the
> technical content, look for stuff without the OT.
>
> This list is an expense for me personally.  I don’t benefit financially
> other than to occasionally hawk my goods.
> Did this answer the question?
>
> *From:* Mike Meluskey
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 3:18 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>
>
> Chuck, are you going to continue to allow political rants?
> If so, I will unsubscribe.
> Don’t need this crap from either side.
>
> Mike Meluskey
>
> On 6 Aug 2020, at 17:06, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Yeah, he is a charter member.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 6, 2020 2:57 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>
> nobody gets to block jaime
>
> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 6:35 PM Jaime Solorza 
> wrote:
>
>> Not a thing you can say will change my honest belief that this clown has
>> really hurt our country and caused a lot of pain.  Block me if you wish,
>> but if he was in front of me, I would slap him.  Not punch him ..I save
>> those for men
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 4:23 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Antifa laser.
>>>
>>> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 3:02 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>>>
>>> Person behind holding the object. Debunked
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:55 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>
 Looks like a mirage to me.



 bp
 


 On 8/5/2020 1:47 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

 Ha...my friend is analyzing it...he has cool toys and software plus
 expertise.

 On Wed, Aug 5, 2020, 2:02 PM  wrote:

> That’s what covid looks like in the wild.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 5, 2020 1:52 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT: ideas?
>
> Intriguing...not a lens flare
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 AF@af.afmug.com
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>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>
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>
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> AF@af.a

Re: [AFMUG] COVID Exposure and the real world

[Steve Jones]

This guy is a definite initial false negative. It technically wasn't an
initial rule out, it was a confirmation test, that's why the doc
immediately ordered second test. Since my initial post there's been a lot
of policy activity at the facility. A lot of staff exposure occurred.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 4:56 PM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> Keep in mind that that could be a false positive as well there are a lot
> of both false negatives and false positives on the test. Unless they
> perform several more tests you will never know for sure.
>
> > On Aug 6, 2020, at 4:06 PM, Steve Jones 
> wrote:
> >
> > 
> > So, the wife has a good probability of infection. She works at a
> hospital as PCT (used to be CNA before PC). Patient came in with high
> likelihood of COVID, Isolation protocols were put in place, initial test
> came back negative, they pulled precautions. Still using basic surgical
> masks and gloves (says right on box that it doesnt stop COVID-19). Patient
> is on assistive ventilation, aerosolized secretions.
> > Doctor snaps and orders new test, of course it comes back positive.
> > So now multiple staff are exposed, the bad kind with aerosolized
> secretions, thats the healthcare exposure they warn about.
> > Of course today the hospital changes policy to mandatory eye protection
> (bit late knuckleheads)
> > inept
> >
> > I could co on about how pissed I am about this, and the fact that theyre
> not offering testing to exposed employees, and that the WHO recommendation
> is healthcare staff continue coming into work until they show symptoms, and
> the fact that staff wear the same mask for 12 hours and are scolded if they
> want to change them even though mask production is sufficient to support
> anything that comes at healthcare now. but thats a whole other rant.
> >
> > Moving forward we are treating the household as probably infected. Sons
> baptism sunday is postponed. But trying to figure timelines and how to
> handle exposure risks at my job. Trying to read up on all the current
> politically motivated data is a joke. Best I can tell is transmissibility
> minimum is 3 days, based on the newest harvard study. So assuming wife did
> get it, we have 3 days from initial exposure for her to infect me and 3
> days after that that in transmissible, so working on a minimum  6 day
> window until I have to shut down contact.
> >
> > I already notified everybody that If I come in for anything (primarily
> working remote anyway) that ill be masked and gloved (lol, cloth masks from
> her insurance provider) and wont be within 6 feet of anybody.
> >
> > After the 6 days until she is cleared, I wont be making in person
> contact with anyone. If I enter the office, masked and gloved, sanitize
> everything as i come out. We already have staff separation, with different
> entrances for everyone. No one inside at the same time as me, ill try to
> limit in office to after hours. Any equipment I touch will be masked and
> gloved, will be placed in out non air conditioned garage (gets hot) for 24
> hours before any other staff touches it and will be sanitized.
> >
> > My site work (assuming no positive tests or symptoms in my house) will
> be limited to me only and exterior work only, unmanned locations only, If
> any at risk climbing is required of me, a second ground 911 man present, in
> vehicle only. I I have to supervise any work, It will be from an isolated
> location. Any site area I am in is not to be entered for 24 hours.
> >
> > Any symptoms or positive tests in my house and we go on full quarantine.
> >
> > Ive made it abundantly clear that I think this whole thing is blown out
> of proportion, the masks are nothing more than something to make people
> feel like theyre doing something, even though theyre really not effective
> and come fall theyll be massive bacterial breeding grounds. But there is
> due diligence, and I think this plan of attack is pretty reasonable. It
> mitigates any risk while allowing us to maintain productivity (assuming no
> symptoms or positive tests). It feels like its something with minimal major
> company impact and id easy to replicate given that my spouse works in
> healthcare and this likely wont be the last high risk exposure. But I still
> am not matt hoppes level.
> >
> > At this time, I havent had any "exposure" but there is a probable
> looming exposure. I'm personally relieved that its probably in my house
> now, and we have time to prepare for the inevitable. Im high risk because
> of COPD, so theres that, but Ive already made right with that. Id rather
> just get it over with, I had planned to get exposed a while back to get
> past it but got that plan taken out from under me.
> >
> > We may "luck out" and this exposure was a near miss, but if
> transmissibility is anywhere near what the politics say it is, this ones
> all but certain.
> >
> > I think the 6 day window is a logical one to increase precautions until
> we are past it. I think the non contact addresses any

Re: [AFMUG] COVID Exposure and the real world

[Steve Jones]

You geeks are pretty smart.
I was thinking, there's nothing stopping me from making her room and our
upstairs bathroom negative pressure rooms with some 6 inch duct and duct
fans in a plywood and styrofoam cutout in the window. If I put a hepa
furnace filter on and a baffle it should keep any heat and bugs out of the
house. May help keep our upstairs cooler blowing heat out and drawing cool
air up from downstairs. Laying the duct to the floor should cause down
draft and get any potential airborne bugs out of the air.
I'm thinking if I run humidifiers it should give any covid creatures
something weighty to attach to.
My 15 year old opted to go stay with my neice because I gave him and the 12
year old girl the current known political statistics and let them define
their own risk tolerance. If wife doesnt get symptomatic I'm letting him go
through with his baptism Sunday since he wont be exposed when she would
become contagious. But then again, church is the only place it spreads.
The girl opted to stay
 The two littles dont have brain pan capacity to decide, since neither of
them talk yet.
The fat baby is still on boob juice and CDC and who political
recommendations are to continue breast feeding but for mom to wear a
mask... odd to see common sense prevail from either of those places.
Probably making a poor choice somewhere in all this but when you're offered
the option of a shit sandwich or a turd burger, the outcomes wont be all
that different.

Boss was pretty cool, we are on the same page as far as risk exposure and
mitigation at work. This wont be her last exposure at work, though I hope
it's the last high risk one. And if she does test positive, then we dont
have to worry about them anymore. If I catch it and dont croak out then we
are riding on the golden ticket. We are both smokers and apparently this
particular disease that's a good thing since the vascular impact is
mitigated by our constant constriction, no covid toe for us.

Looked like a hypochondriac at the store stocking up on vitamins for 3 age
ranges and normal cold/flu meds for 3 age ranges. Learning a ton about
vitamin D, C, potassium and Zinc tolerances. This sucks because something
in multivitamins cause me to get tinitus so the ringing will start here in
a couple days. But at least we will walk away in the habit of adjuncting
with vitamins. Probably something we should have been doing all along.

I'm guessing if I werent treating this like any disaster mitigation at work
I'd be freaking out like the wife. Hopefully I dont get to the point I have
it handled and have time to sit and think. Might result in a bit of a brain
bubble.

Going to find out shortly just how accurate the "experts" are. Should be an
interesting week. According to CNN, since we are a right leaning household,
we are all going to die because of our guns.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 11:34 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> This guy is a definite initial false negative. It technically wasn't an
> initial rule out, it was a confirmation test, that's why the doc
> immediately ordered second test. Since my initial post there's been a lot
> of policy activity at the facility. A lot of staff exposure occurred.
>
> On Thu, Aug 6, 2020, 4:56 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> Keep in mind that that could be a false positive as well there are a lot
>> of both false negatives and false positives on the test. Unless they
>> perform several more tests you will never know for sure.
>>
>> > On Aug 6, 2020, at 4:06 PM, Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > 
>> > So, the wife has a good probability of infection. She works at a
>> hospital as PCT (used to be CNA before PC). Patient came in with high
>> likelihood of COVID, Isolation protocols were put in place, initial test
>> came back negative, they pulled precautions. Still using basic surgical
>> masks and gloves (says right on box that it doesnt stop COVID-19). Patient
>> is on assistive ventilation, aerosolized secretions.
>> > Doctor snaps and orders new test, of course it comes back positive.
>> > So now multiple staff are exposed, the bad kind with aerosolized
>> secretions, thats the healthcare exposure they warn about.
>> > Of course today the hospital changes policy to mandatory eye protection
>> (bit late knuckleheads)
>> > inept
>> >
>> > I could co on about how pissed I am about this, and the fact that
>> theyre not offering testing to exposed employees, and that the WHO
>> recommendation is healthcare staff continue coming into work until they
>> show symptoms, and the fact that staff wear the same mask for 12 hours and
>> are scolded if they want to change them even though mask production is
>> sufficient to support anything that comes at healthcare now. but thats a
>> whole other rant.
>> >
>> > Moving forward we are treating the household as probably infected. Sons
>> baptism sunday is postponed. But trying to figure timelines and how to
>> handle exposure risks at my job. Trying to read up on all the cur