date:20200626

On my drive to my shop a few days ago, I noticed a gravel pit had a new conex 
container with solar panels on top.
It is oriented N-S.  The container had 4 panels, probably 10’ x 8’ panels.  

They were stuck up at a pretty steep angle, good for winter.  
But think about it, a 40’ long container with 4 sets of 10’ tall (slant angle 
distance) panels.

On the summer solstice, I drove by about noon, yep, just as I had bragged to my 
wife, from South to North, only the Southern panel had full sun.
All the rest had at least a foot of shade at the bottom.  She looked at me and 
said: “but if they are in series that will kill the whole array won’t it?”!

Gotta love that woman.  

I expect that noon, first day of winter, the Northern most 3 panels will 
probably only have a couple feet of sun on them.  

Folks, if you hate trig or geometry remember this rule of thumb:  Make the 
spacing North to South 3X the panel height.  

In their case, they could only have had two of these arrays up there.  One on 
the far South and one on the far North if they wanted first day of winter full 
sun.  

Or, they could have simply dropped the container East to West and not had this 
problem.  
Resisting the urge to stop by and lecture them
Pretty sure I will be successful in resisting that urge...-- 
AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] OT oh, the humanity

Yep, almost half the panel will be in shade in December.

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 7:36 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: OT oh, the humanity

On my drive to my shop a few days ago, I noticed a gravel pit had a new conex 
container with solar panels on top.
It is oriented N-S.  The container had 4 panels, probably 10’ x 8’ panels.  

They were stuck up at a pretty steep angle, good for winter.  
But think about it, a 40’ long container with 4 sets of 10’ tall (slant angle 
distance) panels.

On the summer solstice, I drove by about noon, yep, just as I had bragged to my 
wife, from South to North, only the Southern panel had full sun.
All the rest had at least a foot of shade at the bottom.  She looked at me and 
said: “but if they are in series that will kill the whole array won’t it?”!

Gotta love that woman.  

I expect that noon, first day of winter, the Northern most 3 panels will 
probably only have a couple feet of sun on them.  

Folks, if you hate trig or geometry remember this rule of thumb:  Make the 
spacing North to South 3X the panel height.  

In their case, they could only have had two of these arrays up there.  One on 
the far South and one on the far North if they wanted first day of winter full 
sun.  

Or, they could have simply dropped the container East to West and not had this 
problem.  
Resisting the urge to stop by and lecture them
Pretty sure I will be successful in resisting that urge...-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Starlink

2020-06-26 Thread Steven Kenney

Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them? I heard there 
may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their system. 
I'd like to find out more information. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

2020-06-26 Thread David Coudron

We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago.  
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af 
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information.

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT oh, the humanity

2020-06-26 Thread dave


Ok, So this brings me to another question
What if the panels are arranged in a Dish type of layout
where the dish tracks the sun. Is that a bad design or am I doing a 
greater good?


I only have 4 panels but could add 6.

I am currently looking for a mount for a C-band 12' dish.



On 6/26/20 8:46 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Yep, almost half the panel will be in shade in December.
image
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 7:36 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* OT oh, the humanity
On my drive to my shop a few days ago, I noticed a gravel pit had a 
new conex container with solar panels on top.
It is oriented N-S.  The container had 4 panels, probably 10’ x 8’ 
panels.

They were stuck up at a pretty steep angle, good for winter.
But think about it, a 40’ long container with 4 sets of 10’ tall 
(slant angle distance) panels.
On the summer solstice, I drove by about noon, yep, just as I had 
bragged to my wife, from South to North, only the Southern panel had 
full sun.
All the rest had at least a foot of shade at the bottom.  She looked 
at me and said: “but if they are in series that will kill the whole 
array won’t it?”!

Gotta love that woman.
I expect that noon, first day of winter, the Northern most 3 panels 
will probably only have a couple feet of sun on them.
Folks, if you hate trig or geometry remember this rule of thumb:  Make 
the spacing North to South 3X the panel height.
In their case, they could only have had two of these arrays up there.  
One on the far South and one on the far North if they wanted first day 
of winter full sun.
Or, they could have simply dropped the container East to West and not 
had this problem.

Resisting the urge to stop by and lecture them
Pretty sure I will be successful in resisting that urge...



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Frickin Noobs

2020-06-26 Thread dave

I did this with couple cisco switches and a ptp800 link with flawless 
operation for 4 years and we also had about 100Mbs of

internet access to the studio fed by another site.

for lossless audio the link has to be perfect and have a stamp of 5x9s 
of reliability with a measure of fade built into contract.


we did this back in 2014


On 6/25/20 2:15 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
So some radio station is transporting audio over IP from studio to 
tower. A few weeks ago they started getting skips in the audio, and 
they're finger pointing at me.  At first I couldn't even see a 
problem.  Eventually I find that every so often there's a 1/10th 
second event with packet loss.  Seven seconds after the event you hear 
a little blip on the radio.  You could go a few hours between events, 
or only a few minutes.


I said yeah I'll try to track down what's causing that, but if you 
have a 7 second delay on this one-way transmission, isn't there plenty 
of time to resend 1/10th second of missing audio?


*grumble grumble*, finger point, it worked before, etc

So I've been trying to narrow down where this is happening and swap 
interfaces and such.  And keep in mind anything I do interrupts the 
radio so I have to do it at odd hours. Periodically during the process 
I re-ask why does this even happen?  This amount of loss shouldn't 
hurt you.


*grumble grumble*, finger point, it worked before, etc

So today they let me take a look at their Comrex audio streaming 
thing-a-ma-bobbers, and I looked in the manual.  Turns out the error 
correction features don't work on lossless audio codecs unless your 
firmware version is above a certain revision.  Theirs isn't above that 
revision, and they're using a lossless audio codec.  So now I'm like, 
yeah I'll keep looking for that little blip, but in the meantime you 
don't have to hear it if you'll upgrade your firmware and enable FEC.


They've had a number of people looking at this, including their 
engineer.  Their equipment has robust enough error correction that 
they could run that stuff on satellite or 4G if they wanted to. It's 
just not configured right!


You'd have fixed this in half an hour if you'd have RTFM'd you frickin 
noobs.






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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

2020-06-26 Thread Steven Kenney

Anyone worried this could put us out of business? I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space. No 
way they'll get stable latency. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "David Coudron"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink 



We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago. 
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility. We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it. Or if you can make any money on 
it. 



Regards, 



David Coudron 


From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM 
To: af  
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink 





Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them? I heard there 
may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their system. 
I'd like to find out more information. 





-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
[ http://www.wavedirect.net/ | http://www.wavedirect.net ] 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Frickin Noobs

2020-06-26 Thread Adam Moffett

This path also ran flawlessly for a number of years.  There is 
definitely an imperfection now that wasn't present before, and it's 
still eluding me.


The point is they CAN have both lossless audio and error correction if 
they RTFM.



On 6/26/2020 10:02 AM, dave wrote:
I did this with couple cisco switches and a ptp800 link with flawless 
operation for 4 years and we also had about 100Mbs of

internet access to the studio fed by another site.

for lossless audio the link has to be perfect and have a stamp of 5x9s 
of reliability with a measure of fade built into contract.


we did this back in 2014


On 6/25/20 2:15 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
So some radio station is transporting audio over IP from studio to 
tower.  A few weeks ago they started getting skips in the audio, and 
they're finger pointing at me.  At first I couldn't even see a 
problem.  Eventually I find that every so often there's a 1/10th 
second event with packet loss.  Seven seconds after the event you 
hear a little blip on the radio.  You could go a few hours between 
events, or only a few minutes.


I said yeah I'll try to track down what's causing that, but if you 
have a 7 second delay on this one-way transmission, isn't there 
plenty of time to resend 1/10th second of missing audio?


*grumble grumble*, finger point, it worked before, etc

So I've been trying to narrow down where this is happening and swap 
interfaces and such.  And keep in mind anything I do interrupts the 
radio so I have to do it at odd hours. Periodically during the 
process I re-ask why does this even happen?  This amount of loss 
shouldn't hurt you.


*grumble grumble*, finger point, it worked before, etc

So today they let me take a look at their Comrex audio streaming 
thing-a-ma-bobbers, and I looked in the manual.  Turns out the error 
correction features don't work on lossless audio codecs unless your 
firmware version is above a certain revision. Theirs isn't above that 
revision, and they're using a lossless audio codec.  So now I'm like, 
yeah I'll keep looking for that little blip, but in the meantime you 
don't have to hear it if you'll upgrade your firmware and enable FEC.


They've had a number of people looking at this, including their 
engineer.  Their equipment has robust enough error correction that 
they could run that stuff on satellite or 4G if they wanted to. It's 
just not configured right!


You'd have fixed this in half an hour if you'd have RTFM'd you 
frickin noobs.







-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

They will have trees and snow to worry about.
I am sure it will not be super cheap either.  
People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).

I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...

From: Steven Kenney 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

From: "David Coudron" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago.  
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af 
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

2020-06-26 Thread Steven Kenney

Well wouldn't their fade margin be calculated already to be high enough to poke 
through bad weather? 

The issue with sat internet is the upload. How many watts are they going to 
allow each house to broadcast to get into space? 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "chuck"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 10:07:40 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink 

They will have trees and snow to worry about. 
I am sure it will not be super cheap either. 
People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now). 
I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either... 
From: Steven Kenney 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM 
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink 
Anyone worried this could put us out of business? I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space. No 
way they'll get stable latency. 
-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 

From: "David Coudron"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink 


We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago. 
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility. We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it. Or if you can make any money on 
it. 



Regards, 



David Coudron 


From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM 
To: af  
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink 





Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them? I heard there 
may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their system. 
I'd like to find out more information. 





-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
[ http://www.wavedirect.net/ | http://www.wavedirect.net ] 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Snow accumulation on a flat pizza box antenna is not going to be good.  
Maybe it will have a heater in it.

Not sure what frequency they are at but it sure messes with K band and C band 
TV signals.  

From: Steven Kenney 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:11 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Well wouldn't their fade margin be calculated already to be high enough to poke 
through bad weather?  

The issue with sat internet is the upload.  How many watts are they going to 
allow each house to broadcast to get into space?

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

From: "chuck" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 10:07:40 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

They will have trees and snow to worry about.
I am sure it will not be super cheap either.  
People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).

I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...

From: Steven Kenney 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

From: "David Coudron" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago.  
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af 
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

2020-06-26 Thread Gino A. Villarini

Don’t rest on your laurels,

-The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches.
-Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip
-Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user
-Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground.

Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink and 
other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it.


Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
[https://mcusercontent.com/491678685aaddc31e08616413/images/756812e5-24a6-4693-a923-7a1d8f55546d.png]
[https://image.ibb.co/noQeyp/inc500.png] 
  
[https://image.ibb.co/e4pBB9/fb-logo.png]  
[https://image.ibb.co/nxuuW9/insta-logo.png] 
   
[https://image.ibb.co/jhSEW9/in-logo.png] 
 
[https://image.ibb.co/dqqq4U/tw-logo.png] 

[https://image.ibb.co/bAJcjU/yt-logo.png] 

[https://mcusercontent.com/491678685aaddc31e08616413/images/663fa299-7512-404f-ab00-6f8d11d8a417.png]
www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

They will have trees and snow to worry about.
I am sure it will not be super cheap either.
People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).

I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...

From: Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM
To: af
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency.

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)


From: "David Coudron" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago.  
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af 
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information.

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

2020-06-26 Thread Adam Moffett

If they do what they're saying in the press and they price it right, 
then maybe it'll beat fixed wireless.


I still don't know what they're planning to charge for it, and their 
engineering challenges seem rather daunting to me.  The FCC authorized 
2ghz of bandwidth for the downlink.  That sounds like a lot, but I'd 
assume that just like us, they can't hit the same exact location with 
the same channel from two AP's.  So they have to handle frequency 
coordination between thousands of moving AP's.  I'm fuzzy on what 
Hughesnet has, but I think between Ka and Ku band's it's around 
2.25ghz.  So Starlink has similar bandwidth.


The other thing is we're assuming more satellites = more capacity, but 
again they have 2ghz of bandwidth for the downlink. I know many of us 
have seen a big open warehouse or stadium with too many WiFi APs.  
Across open space more isn't more.  Their link budget may be better with 
the shorter range, but they also have smaller antennas, and they have to 
avoid stepping on themselves somehow (small channels?).


I know they have smart people there, but honestly I don't know. 
Hughesnet has 600,000 subscribers in the USA and they're famously 
shitty.  I bet the early adopters of Starlink will be very happy, but 
the real test will be when they have 600,000 subscribers. Right now I'm 
impressed and surprised that they think they can do this. If they get to 
half million subs and still aren't shitty then I promise I'll be 
suitably impressed by their engineering talent. .but I'm an eternal 
doubter.



On 6/26/2020 10:03 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really 
because I don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 
100KM into space.  No way they'll get stable latency.


--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)


*From: *"David Coudron" 
*To: *"af" 
*Sent: *Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 
months ago.  We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in 
seeing of this is a possibility.   We are wondering if it would be 
more feasible/cheaper than building out a new tower site for 2-3 
subscribers surrounded by trees and will be the most the tower will 
every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on it.


Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steven Kenney
*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
*To:* af 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I 
heard there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth 
through their system.  I'd like to find out more information.


--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)


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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

2020-06-26 Thread Adam Moffett


if it's all true.  Yes.

On 6/26/2020 10:23 AM, Gino A. Villarini wrote:
This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it. 
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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
Snow accumulation is a real thing here.  
I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of a 
fiber jumper.

Just trying to be a cheerleader.  

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Don’t rest on your laurels, 

-The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches. 

-Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip

-Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user

-Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground. 

Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink and 
other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it. 

Gino Villarini 
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

From: AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

They will have trees and snow to worry about.

I am sure it will not be super cheap either.  

People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).

I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...

From: Steven Kenney 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM

To: af 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

From: "David Coudron" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago.  
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af 
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

You should be fine Gino, as they only have an English language version and are 
not planning to roll our Spanish language internet in the foreseeable future...

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Don’t rest on your laurels, 

-The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches. 

-Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip

-Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user

-Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground. 

Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink and 
other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it. 

Gino Villarini 
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

From: AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

They will have trees and snow to worry about.

I am sure it will not be super cheap either.  

People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).

I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...

From: Steven Kenney 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM

To: af 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

From: "David Coudron" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago.  
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af 
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

2020-06-26 Thread Mike Hammett

70 ms is fine for gaming and voice. It's just that a 70 ms latency likely has 
high jitter, which is the real problem. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:31:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink 




70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice. 
Snow accumulation is a real thing here. 
I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of a 
fiber jumper. 

Just trying to be a cheerleader. 




From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink 



Don’t rest on your laurels, 

-The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches. 
-Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip 
-Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user 
-Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground. 

Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink and 
other LEO players. This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it. 

Gino Villarini 
Founder/President 
@gvillarini 
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 

aeronet-logoinc500  fb-logo insta-logo  in-logo tw-logo yt-logo 
www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 

From: AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown  
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM 
To: af  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink 





They will have trees and snow to worry about. 

I am sure it will not be super cheap either. 

People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now). 



I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either... 






From: Steven Kenney 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM 

To: af 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink 





Anyone worried this could put us out of business? I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space. No 
way they'll get stable latency. 



-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 





From: "David Coudron"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink 




We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago. 
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility. We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it. Or if you can make any money on 
it. 

Regards, 

David Coudron 


From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM 
To: af  
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink 



Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them? I heard there 
may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their system. 
I'd like to find out more information. 



-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 

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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 


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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink


  
  
This spy photo seems to indicate that the pizza box will not be
  horizontal. Probably something to do with the lat/lon and where
  the train will be passing? The round goobers are base stations (I
  think).


bp



On 6/26/2020 7:17 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Snow accumulation on a flat pizza box antenna is not
going to be good.  
  Maybe it will have a heater in it.
   
  Not sure what frequency they are at but it sure messes
with K band and C band TV signals.  
  

   
  
From: Steven
Kenney 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:11 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
  

 
  
  

  Well wouldn't their fade margin be calculated already
to be high enough to poke through bad weather?  

  
  The issue with sat internet is the upload.  How many
watts are they going to allow each house to broadcast to
get into space?
   
  -- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)
   
  
  From: "chuck"

To: "af" 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 10:07:40 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
  
   
  

  
They will have trees and snow to worry about.
I am sure it will not be super cheap either.  
People don’t like antennas on their houses
  (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).
 
I am not worried, but I was not worried about
  Covid either...

  
 

  From: Steven Kenney 
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03
AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  
   


  
Anyone worried this could put us out of
  business?  I'm not really because I don't care
  how hot your signal is, you'll be going over
  100KM into space.  No way they'll get stable
  latency.  
 
-- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)
 

From: "David Coudron"
  
  To: "af" 
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

 

  
We had done some poking
  around to see about the same thing about 2
  months ago.  We didn’t find much, but we’d
  be pretty interested in seeing of this is
  a possibility.   We are wondering if it
  would be more feasible/cheaper than
  building out a new tower site for 2-3
  subscribers surrounded by trees and will
  be the most the tower will every have on
  it.   Or if you can make any money on it.
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron

  
From: AF
   On
Behalf Of Steven Kenney
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020
  8:48 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink


  
  
If we are to believe Elon, they are talking 20ms in the beta, and
  lower thna that when they get a more fully populated
  constellation.


bp



On 6/26/2020 7:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  

  70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
  Snow accumulation is a real thing here.  
  I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or
10G with a move of a fiber jumper.
   
  Just trying to be a cheerleader.  
  

   
  
From: Gino
A. Villarini 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
  

 
  
  

  Don’t rest on your laurels, 
   
  -The antenna is not that big, its
about 18-20 inches. 
  -Latency is pretty low, below 70ms
roundtrip
  -Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps
to the end user
  -Fade margin in not that bad with
sats being close to the ground. 
   
  Price of hardware will evantually
come down with mass volume from Starlink and other LEO
players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we
know it. 
   
  
  Gino Villarini
  
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
  

  

  
  
   
   
   
   
   
  
  

  


www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304
  Guaynabo, PR 00968
  
From: AF
 on behalf of Chuck
McCown 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
  
  
 
  
  

  
They will have trees and snow to
worry about.
  
  
I am sure it will not be super
cheap either.  
  
  
People don’t like antennas on
their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).
  
  
 
  
  
I am not worried, but I was not
worried about Covid either...
  
  

  
 
  
  

  From: Steven Kenney 


  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM


  To: af 


  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  


   

  
  

  
Anyone
worried this could put us out of business? 
I'm not really because I don't care how hot
your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM
into space.  No way they'll get stable
latency.  
  
  
 
  
  
--

Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink


  
  
One thing that no one is talking about is that this has the
  potential to provide non-firewalled service to places like China,
  Russia, and other heavy-handed countries.


bp



On 6/26/2020 7:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  

  70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
  Snow accumulation is a real thing here.  
  I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or
10G with a move of a fiber jumper.
   
  Just trying to be a cheerleader.  
  

   
  
From: Gino
A. Villarini 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
  

 
  
  

  Don’t rest on your laurels, 
   
  -The antenna is not that big, its
about 18-20 inches. 
  -Latency is pretty low, below 70ms
roundtrip
  -Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps
to the end user
  -Fade margin in not that bad with
sats being close to the ground. 
   
  Price of hardware will evantually
come down with mass volume from Starlink and other LEO
players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we
know it. 
   
  
  Gino Villarini
  
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
  

  

  
  
   
   
   
   
   
  
  

  


www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304
  Guaynabo, PR 00968
  
From: AF
 on behalf of Chuck
McCown 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
  
  
 
  
  

  
They will have trees and snow to
worry about.
  
  
I am sure it will not be super
cheap either.  
  
  
People don’t like antennas on
their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).
  
  
 
  
  
I am not worried, but I was not
worried about Covid either...
  
  

  
 
  
  

  From: Steven Kenney 


  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM


  To: af 


  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  


   

  
  

  
Anyone
worried this could put us out of business? 
I'm not really because I don't care how hot
your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM
into space.  No way they'll get stable
latency.  
  
  
 
  
  
--

Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anything over 50 ms is bad for voice.  I can detect it down to 20 ms.  It 
interferes with your natural rapid fire speech patterns.  
But I supposed everyone is so used to cell phones nowadays they have adapted.  

Nothing quite like geo synch satellite trunking to Alaska.

Or HDX HF ship to shore...

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

70 ms is fine for gaming and voice. It's just that a 70 ms latency likely has 
high jitter, which is the real problem.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:31:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink


70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
Snow accumulation is a real thing here.  
I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of a 
fiber jumper.

Just trying to be a cheerleader.  

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Don’t rest on your laurels, 



-The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches. 

-Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip

-Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user

-Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground. 



Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink and 
other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it. 



Gino Villarini 
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
 

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

From: AF  on behalf of Chuck McCown 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink



They will have trees and snow to worry about.

I am sure it will not be super cheap either.  

People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).



I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...



From: Steven Kenney 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM

To: af 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink



Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency.  



-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)






From: "David Coudron" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink



We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago.  
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.



Regards,



David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af 
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink



Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information.  



-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

2020-06-26 Thread fiberrun

This claims OneWeb has demonstrated 32 ms average latency using their LEO 
satellites:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/06/government-to-splash-500m-on-oneweb-broadband-satellites.html
 
Says nothing about jitter, tho.

Jared
 
 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020
From: "Bill Prince" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
If we are to believe Elon, they are talking 20ms in the beta, and lower thna 
that when they get a more fully populated constellation.
 
bp



On 6/26/2020 7:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com[mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com] wrote:

70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
Snow accumulation is a real thing here. 
I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of a 
fiber jumper.
 
Just trying to be a cheerleader. 

 

From: Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
 

Don’t rest on your laurels,
 
-The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches.
-Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip
-Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user
-Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground.
 
Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink and 
other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it.
 
Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
 
[http://www.aeronetpr.com/][https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet][https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/]
 [https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en] 
[https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp] 
[https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor]
 [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA]  
[https://bit.ly/BBoffer1]
www.aeronetpr.com[http://www.aeronetpr.com] | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] on behalf of 
Chuck McCown [mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com]
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
[mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
To: af [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

 

They will have trees and snow to worry about.

I am sure it will not be super cheap either. 

People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).

 

I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...

 

From: Steven Kenney

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM

To: af

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

 

Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency. 

 

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net[http://www.wavedirect.net]
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

 



From: "David Coudron" 
[mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com]
To: "af" [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

 

We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago.  
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink
 

Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information. 

 

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net[http://www.wavedirect.net]
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com[mailto:AF@af.afmug.com]
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

If the satellite is directly overhead you have 1.8 ms one way time of flight.

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:38 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

If we are to believe Elon, they are talking 20ms in the beta, and lower thna 
that when they get a more fully populated constellation.

bp

On 6/26/2020 7:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
  Snow accumulation is a real thing here.  
  I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of a 
fiber jumper.

  Just trying to be a cheerleader.  

  From: Gino A. Villarini 
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  Don’t rest on your laurels, 

  -The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches. 

  -Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip

  -Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user

  -Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground. 

  Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink 
and other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it. 

  Gino Villarini 
  Founder/President
  @gvillarini
  t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 

  www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com on behalf of Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
  Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
  To: af mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  They will have trees and snow to worry about.

  I am sure it will not be super cheap either.  

  People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).

  I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...

  From: Steven Kenney 

  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM

  To: af 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency.  

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)

--

  From: "David Coudron" mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com
  To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months 
ago.  We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.

  Regards,

  David Coudron

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
  To: af mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink

  Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information.  

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

2020-06-26 Thread fiberrun

Great firewall of Russia? When did that become a thing? Perhaps you were 
thinking about Cuba or North Korea?
 
Anyways, it's not like any of those coutries would allow Starlink to operate 
without adhering to local laws.


Jared
 
 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020
From: "Bill Prince" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
One thing that no one is talking about is that this has the potential to 
provide non-firewalled service to places like China, Russia, and other 
heavy-handed countries.
 
bp



On 6/26/2020 7:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com[mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com] wrote:

70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
Snow accumulation is a real thing here. 
I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of a 
fiber jumper.
 
Just trying to be a cheerleader. 

 

From: Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
 

Don’t rest on your laurels,
 
-The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches.
-Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip
-Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user
-Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground.
 
Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink and 
other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it.
 
Gino Villarini
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
 
[http://www.aeronetpr.com/][https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet][https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/]
 [https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en] 
[https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp] 
[https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor]
 [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA]  
[https://bit.ly/BBoffer1]
www.aeronetpr.com[http://www.aeronetpr.com] | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] on behalf of 
Chuck McCown [mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com]
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
[mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
To: af [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

 

They will have trees and snow to worry about.

I am sure it will not be super cheap either. 

People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).

 

I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...

 

From: Steven Kenney

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM

To: af

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

 

Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency. 

 

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net[http://www.wavedirect.net]
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

 



From: "David Coudron" 
[mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com]
To: "af" [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

 

We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago.  
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink
 

Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information. 

 

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net[http://www.wavedirect.net]
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com[mailto:AF@af.afmug.com]
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com[http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com]

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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

According to the interwebs:

Similarly, the G.114 recommendation regarding mouth-to-ear delay indicates that 
most users are "very satisfied" as long as latency does not exceed 200 ms, with 
an according R of 90+. Codec choice also plays an important role; the highest 
quality (and highest bandwidth) codecs like G.711 are usually configured to 
incur the least encode-decode latency, so on a network with sufficient 
throughput sub-100 ms latencies can be achieved. G.711 at a bitrate of 64 
kbit/s is the encoding method predominantly used on the public switched 
telephone network.

I would not be “very satisfied” at 200ms.  I would want to find a land line at 
200 ms.  Not sure who they poll for this stuff but I have actually worked on 
circuits doing these types of evaluations in the early 1990s.  100 ms sucks.  
Once you hit 50 ms I start to lose the ability to detect latency.  At 20 ms 
nobody can tell.  

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:42 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

If the satellite is directly overhead you have 1.8 ms one way time of flight.

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:38 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

If we are to believe Elon, they are talking 20ms in the beta, and lower thna 
that when they get a more fully populated constellation.



bp


On 6/26/2020 7:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
  Snow accumulation is a real thing here.  
  I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of a 
fiber jumper.

  Just trying to be a cheerleader.  

  From: Gino A. Villarini 
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  Don’t rest on your laurels, 

   

  -The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches. 

  -Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip

  -Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user

  -Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground. 

   

  Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink 
and other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it. 

   

  Gino Villarini 
  Founder/President
  @gvillarini
  t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 
  
   

  www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com on behalf of Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
  Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
  To: af mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

   

  They will have trees and snow to worry about.

  I am sure it will not be super cheap either.  

  People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).

   

  I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...

   

  From: Steven Kenney 

  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM

  To: af 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

   

  Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency.  

   

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)

   


--

  From: "David Coudron" mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com
  To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

   

  We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months 
ago.  We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.

   

  Regards,

   

  David Coudron

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
  To: af mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink

   

  Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information.  

   

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)


  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--

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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

You realize we only talk on VoIP lines and cell phones right?  That's got
to be the 150-200 ms range.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:50 AM  wrote:

> According to the interwebs:
>
> Similarly, the G.114  recommendation
> regarding mouth-to-ear delay indicates that most users are "very satisfied"
> as long as latency does not exceed 200 ms, with an according *R* of 90+.
> Codec choice also plays an important role; the highest quality (and highest
> bandwidth) codecs like G.711  are
> usually configured to incur the least encode-decode latency, so on a
> network with sufficient throughput sub-100 ms latencies can be achieved.
> G.711 at a bitrate of 64 kbit/s is the encoding method predominantly used
> on the public switched telephone network
> .
>
> I would not be “very satisfied” at 200ms.  I would want to find a land
> line at 200 ms.  Not sure who they poll for this stuff but I have actually
> worked on circuits doing these types of evaluations in the early 1990s.
> 100 ms sucks.  Once you hit 50 ms I start to lose the ability to detect
> latency.  At 20 ms nobody can tell.
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 8:42 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>
> If the satellite is directly overhead you have 1.8 ms one way time of
> flight.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 8:38 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>
>
> If we are to believe Elon, they are talking 20ms in the beta, and lower
> thna that when they get a more fully populated constellation.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 7:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> 70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
> Snow accumulation is a real thing here.
> I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of
> a fiber jumper.
>
> Just trying to be a cheerleader.
>
> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>
>
> Don’t rest on your laurels,
>
>
>
> -The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches.
>
> -Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip
>
> -Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user
>
> -Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground.
>
>
>
> Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink
> and other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know
> it.
>
>
>
> *Gino*
> *Villarini *Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> [image: aeronet-logo]  [image: inc500]
>  [image: fb-logo]
>   [image: insta-logo]
>   [image: in-logo]
>   [image:
> tw-logo]
> 
>   [image: yt-logo]
> 
> 
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
> *From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com on behalf of Chuck McCown
> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Date: *Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
> *To: *af mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>
>
>
> They will have trees and snow to worry about.
>
> I am sure it will not be super cheap either.
>
> People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber
> now).
>
>
>
> I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...
>
>
>
> *From:* Steven Kenney
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM
>
> *To:* af
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>
>
>
> Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because
> I don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into
> space.  No way they'll get stable latency.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"David Coudron" mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com
> *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>
>
>
> We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months
> ago.  We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this
> is a possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper
> than building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees
> and will be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make
> any money on it.
>
>
>
> Regards

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Yeahbut, I am an old landline and analog trunk guy.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

You realize we only talk on VoIP lines and cell phones right?  That's got to be 
the 150-200 ms range.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:50 AM  wrote:

  According to the interwebs:

  Similarly, the G.114 recommendation regarding mouth-to-ear delay indicates 
that most users are "very satisfied" as long as latency does not exceed 200 ms, 
with an according R of 90+. Codec choice also plays an important role; the 
highest quality (and highest bandwidth) codecs like G.711 are usually 
configured to incur the least encode-decode latency, so on a network with 
sufficient throughput sub-100 ms latencies can be achieved. G.711 at a bitrate 
of 64 kbit/s is the encoding method predominantly used on the public switched 
telephone network.

  I would not be “very satisfied” at 200ms.  I would want to find a land line 
at 200 ms.  Not sure who they poll for this stuff but I have actually worked on 
circuits doing these types of evaluations in the early 1990s.  100 ms sucks.  
Once you hit 50 ms I start to lose the ability to detect latency.  At 20 ms 
nobody can tell.  

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:42 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  If the satellite is directly overhead you have 1.8 ms one way time of flight.

  From: Bill Prince 
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:38 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  If we are to believe Elon, they are talking 20ms in the beta, and lower thna 
that when they get a more fully populated constellation.

bp

On 6/26/2020 7:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
Snow accumulation is a real thing here.  
I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of a 
fiber jumper.

Just trying to be a cheerleader.  

From: Gino A. Villarini 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Don’t rest on your laurels, 

-The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches. 

-Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip

-Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user

-Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground. 

Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink 
and other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it. 

Gino Villarini 
Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204 

www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968 
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com on behalf of Chuck McCown 
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
To: af mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

They will have trees and snow to worry about.

I am sure it will not be super cheap either.  

People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).

I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...

From: Steven Kenney 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM

To: af 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

From: "David Coudron" mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months 
ago.  We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink

Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network O

Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: Syncinjector cambium sync with 3ghz 450m

2020-06-26 Thread Matt Mangriotis via AF

Don’t want to speak for Eric, but I think he means that so far, he is still 
operating under Part 90 rules, so the EIRP is limited.

Once he swaps over to operating under Part 96 (CBRS), he’ll be able to enjoy 
the higher EIRP limits that these rules allow.

Yes, the 3 GHz 450m is capable of operation under either rule part (the old 
3.65 Part 90, or the Part 96 CBRS).

Matt

From: AF  On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:55 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [ External ] Re: [AFMUG] Syncinjector cambium sync with 3ghz 450m

450m is most certainly on CBRS.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:04 AM Eric Muehleisen 
mailto:ericm...@gmail.com>> wrote:
hmm. These AP's are not on CBRS yet. So TX power is limited. I wonder if we'll 
start to see issues once the AP's are cranked up.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 8:39 AM Adam Moffett 
mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It's because of the 100W+ draw.

Look at the voltage drop on 18ga over hundreds of feet with the wattage drawn 
by the 450m.

On a shortish cable you're probably ok with the 2x 18gauge.  Look at a 300' or 
400' cable and compare what 2x 18 gauge does vs 4x 16 gauge.   At some point 
you're only delivering 30ish volts.


On 6/26/2020 9:30 AM, Eric Muehleisen wrote:
Is there a particular reason why 4 conductors is necessary? We've been only 
using 2. Pin 1 is positive, Pin 3 is negative. Been working great for months. 
We use outdoor rated 18 gauge power wire that we use on our ONT's.

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:35 PM Josh Baird 
mailto:joshba...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Yes - and some non-standard connector.

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 4:30 PM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
Wait the 450m 3 GHz needs four conductors?!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 3:15 PM Matt Hopkins 
mailto:mhopk...@onlinenw.com>> wrote:
On the 5GHz 450M you can use one cable for power, sync, and data if you so 
choose.
On the 3GHz 450M you have to use at least 2 cables. One will probably be cat5 
for sync and data. Power must have it's own 4 conductor cable. In the 
RackInjector, you would be providing power over the sync port as well as the 
power cable but the 450M will ignore the power input from the Cat5. The pic 
below shows the end result. This is live from one of our towers. Note the 
current on all the ports is minimal.

[cid:image002.png@01D64BA2.DC5743E0]



On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 10:38 AM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
wont sending POE power to the radio damage the port?, syncinjectors are passive 
poe

On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 12:21 PM Eric Muehleisen 
mailto:ericm...@gmail.com>> wrote:
The RackInjector board naming scheme is confusing. He really needs a table 
matrix that breaks down what boards support what equipment and what jumpers and 
power requirements to use. I think this is why he was asking for help on his 
documentation.

Power Injection for Cambium Sync = 450M & 450i.
Power Injection + Canopy Sync = ePMP, 450 & 320

To power a 3ghz 450M you'll need a PDU card and a Power Injection for Cambium 
Sync to provide sync pulse. No PoE on the 3.65ghz 450M. You leave power enabled 
on the card/ports or sync will not work.



On Thu, Jun 25, 2020 at 11:46 AM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Im confused as shit, and the cambium documentation is not clear. The 
syncinjector cambium sync says 450m, but is the only 450m 5ghz? the 3ghz as 
bestI can tell is a DC only product (even says something about sync over power)

so will the syncinjector still provide sync at the ethernet port, i just turn 
off the power output on the syncinjector? or am i misunderstanding this and the 
450m 3ghz will take power via the ethernet port?

forrest?


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Re: [AFMUG] Syncinjector cambium sync with 3ghz 450m

2020-06-26 Thread dave


We have installed dozens of these so I wanted to chime in.
 First off the difference on connecting up a 5Ghz vs 3.65ghz 450m
5Ghz will use only POE and has an aux port and a SFP port
3.65Ghz has a DC Port with 4pin connector. It also has a main,aux and 
SFP port.
In order for any of them to use sync the main port must have Cambium 
Sync to it.


We have started using the DC card packetflux has to power and control 
the 450m 3.65 radios.
I have  not had any issues by doing so, but we do run the main,aux and 
fiber ports for data and aux control.


One of the thing we do to ensure long term reliability is installing the 
DC Lpus on all cables that use the Cat6 Armored cables
we also install the DC Lpus for the DC ports. We also have inline fuses 
to each dc port.
A tip is also add the cable ground kits if your running the armored 
cable up the tower.


We see 300 to 400Mbs of traffic on a couple of our medusas that are 
cbsd's at 30mhz wide


Fiber never looked so good on those ports LOL :)



On 6/25/20 11:45 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
Im confused as shit, and the cambium documentation is not clear. The 
syncinjector cambium sync says 450m, but is the only 450m 5ghz? the 
3ghz as bestI can tell is a DC only product (even says something about 
sync over power)


so will the syncinjector still provide sync at the ethernet port, i 
just turn off the power output on the syncinjector? or am i 
misunderstanding this and the 450m 3ghz will take power via the 
ethernet port?


forrest?





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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink


I heard OneWeb filed for bankruptcy.


bp


On 6/26/2020 7:42 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:

This claims OneWeb has demonstrated 32 ms average latency using their LEO 
satellites:
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/06/government-to-splash-500m-on-oneweb-broadband-satellites.html
  
Says nothing about jitter, tho.


Jared
  
  


Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020
From: "Bill Prince" 
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
If we are to believe Elon, they are talking 20ms in the beta, and lower thna 
that when they get a more fully populated constellation.
  
bp




On 6/26/2020 7:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com[mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com] wrote:

70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
Snow accumulation is a real thing here.
I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of a 
fiber jumper.
  
Just trying to be a cheerleader.


  


From: Gino A. Villarini
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
  


Don’t rest on your laurels,
  
-The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches.

-Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip
-Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user
-Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground.
  
Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink and other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know it.
  
Gino Villarini

Founder/President
@gvillarini
t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
  
[http://www.aeronetpr.com/][https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet][https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/] [https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en] [https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp] [https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor] [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA]  [https://bit.ly/BBoffer1]

www.aeronetpr.com[http://www.aeronetpr.com] | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 
Guaynabo, PR 00968
From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] on behalf of Chuck 
McCown [mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com]
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
[mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
To: af [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  


They will have trees and snow to worry about.

I am sure it will not be super cheap either.

People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).

  


I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...

  


From: Steven Kenney

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM

To: af

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  


Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  No 
way they'll get stable latency.

  


--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net[http://www.wavedirect.net]
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

  




From: "David Coudron" 
[mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com]
To: "af" [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

  


We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months ago.  
We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this is a 
possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper than 
building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees and will 
be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make any money on 
it.
  
Regards,
  
David Coudron


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of 
Steven Kenney
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
To: af [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink
  


Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
system.  I'd like to find out more information.

  


--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net[http://www.wavedirect.net]
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com[mailto:AF@af.afmug.com]
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com[http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com]



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[AFMUG] blocked port 53

So I'm off in the mountains and it looks like the sat service is down 
because someone is blocking port 53.   Anyone know of a dns service I 
could point to on a 1000+ port?


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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] blocked port 53

2020-06-26 Thread Mark - Myakka Technologies

Robert,

Couldn't  you  use one of the new secure DNS servers like clouldflare?
Don't they run on different ports?


--
Best regards,
 Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com

--

Friday, June 26, 2020, 12:21:34 PM, you wrote:

R> So I'm off in the mountains and it looks like the sat service is down 
R> because someone is blocking port 53.   Anyone know of a dns service I 
R> could point to on a 1000+ port?


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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] blocked port 53

2020-06-26 Thread Larry Smith

Most of the big public DNS servers also respond to 853 (TLS)
I believe.  Google advertises that they do.

-- 
Larry Smith
lesm...@ecsis.net

On Fri June 26 2020 11:31, Mark - Myakka Technologies wrote:
> Robert,
>
> Couldn't  you  use one of the new secure DNS servers like clouldflare?
> Don't they run on different ports?
>
>
> --
> Best regards,
>  Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
>
> --
>
> Friday, June 26, 2020, 12:21:34 PM, you wrote:
>
> R> So I'm off in the mountains and it looks like the sat service is down
> R> because someone is blocking port 53.   Anyone know of a dns service I
> R> could point to on a 1000+ port?

-- 
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[AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite 
preference or opinion.
However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  
I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd person. 
 -- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

2020-06-26 Thread David Coudron

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way too 
much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with insulation 
or other items you didn't want to breathe in.   The novelty of wearing a mask 
wore off long ago..

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite 
preference or opinion.
However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.
I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd person.
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

I've occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if those
are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal
sneeze guard.  Now I'm having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks
with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the
Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way
too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with
insulation or other items you didn't want to breathe in.   The novelty of
wearing a mask wore off long ago..

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite
preference or opinion.

However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

 

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

 

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

 

I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  

I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd
person.  

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

2020-06-26 Thread fiberrun

Yeah, they did file for chapter 11. Obviously that's why the UK government 
thinks it's a good idea to give them half a *billion* pounds. /s

> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020
> From: "Bill Prince" 
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>
> I heard OneWeb filed for bankruptcy.
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 6/26/2020 7:42 AM, fiber...@mail.com wrote:
> > This claims OneWeb has demonstrated 32 ms average latency using their LEO 
> > satellites:
> > https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/06/government-to-splash-500m-on-oneweb-broadband-satellites.html
> >   
> > Says nothing about jitter, tho.
> >
> > Jared
> >   
> >   
> >
> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020
> > From: "Bill Prince" 
> > To: af@af.afmug.com
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
> > If we are to believe Elon, they are talking 20ms in the beta, and lower 
> > thna that when they get a more fully populated constellation.
> >   
> > bp
> > 
> >
> >
> > On 6/26/2020 7:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com[mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com] wrote:
> >
> > 70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
> > Snow accumulation is a real thing here.
> > I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of a 
> > fiber jumper.
> >   
> > Just trying to be a cheerleader.
> >
> >   
> >
> > From: Gino A. Villarini
> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
> > To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
> >   
> >
> > Don’t rest on your laurels,
> >   
> > -The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches.
> > -Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip
> > -Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user
> > -Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground.
> >   
> > Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from Starlink 
> > and other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as we know 
> > it.
> >   
> > Gino Villarini
> > Founder/President
> > @gvillarini
> > t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> >   
> > [http://www.aeronetpr.com/][https://www.inc.com/profile/aeronet][https://www.facebook.com/aeronetpr/]
> >  [https://www.instagram.com/aeronetpr/?hl=en] 
> > [https://www.linkedin.com/company/aeronet-broadband-corp] 
> > [https://twitter.com/AeroNetPR?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor]
> >  [https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr2Q9WBrAYVm3Fn970Jd6VA]  
> > [https://bit.ly/BBoffer1]
> > www.aeronetpr.com[http://www.aeronetpr.com] | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 
> > 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
> > From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] on 
> > behalf of Chuck McCown [mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com]
> > Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> > [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
> > Date: Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
> > To: af [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
> >
> >   
> >
> > They will have trees and snow to worry about.
> >
> > I am sure it will not be super cheap either.
> >
> > People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber now).
> >
> >   
> >
> > I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...
> >
> >   
> >
> > From: Steven Kenney
> >
> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM
> >
> > To: af
> >
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
> >
> >   
> >
> > Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because I 
> > don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into space.  
> > No way they'll get stable latency.
> >
> >   
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect Telecommunications
> > http://www.wavedirect.net[http://www.wavedirect.net]
> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)
> >
> >   
> >
> > 
> >
> > From: "David Coudron" 
> > [mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com]
> > To: "af" [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 9:56:09 AM
> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
> >
> >   
> >
> > We had done some poking around to see about the same thing about 2 months 
> > ago.  We didn’t find much, but we’d be pretty interested in seeing of this 
> > is a possibility.   We are wondering if it would be more feasible/cheaper 
> > than building out a new tower site for 2-3 subscribers surrounded by trees 
> > and will be the most the tower will every have on it.   Or if you can make 
> > any money on it.
> >   
> > Regards,
> >   
> > David Coudron
> >
> > From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On 
> > Behalf Of Steven Kenney
> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 8:48 AM
> > To: af [mailto:af@af.afmug.com]
> > Subject: [AFMUG] Starlink
> >   
> >
> > Anyone looking into starlink to see if you can partner with them?  I heard 
> > there may be a way of being a reseller or to lease bandwidth through their 
> > system.  I'd like to find out more information.
> >
> >   
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect Telecommunications
> > http://www.wavedirect.net[http://www.wavedirect.net]
> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com[mailto:AF@af.afmug.com]
> > htt

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
Just remember Chuck; you're not wearing it for you, you are
  wearing it out of empathy for your fellow (wo)man.


bp



On 6/26/2020 9:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  With almost every thought or opinion there will be
someone with the opposite preference or opinion.
  However, one particular feeling might be universally held
amongst humans.
   
  I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business
meetings.  
   
  I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I
do not like masks.
   
  I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  
  I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that
would be an odd person.  

  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot
  lava pit when I hear that.


bp



On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear
  face shields.  Not sure if those are effective and/or allowed
  instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal sneeze guard.  Now
  I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks with
  their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I
  hear the Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to
  explode.
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of David
  Coudron
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
  

 
You can officially count me among the
  haters of wearing masks.   Did it way too much as a kid on the
  farm when working in dusty environments or with insulation or
  other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of
  wearing a mask wore off long ago……
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron

  
From: AF  On
Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
  

 

  

  With almost every
  thought or opinion there will be someone with the
  opposite preference or opinion.


  However, one
  particular feeling might be universally held amongst
  humans.


   


  I am finding I
  really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  


   


  I will do it
  until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not
  like masks.


   


  I do not like to
  wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  


  I am sure someone
  somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd
  person.  

  

  
  
  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Yeah, I am terribly altruistic.  I also thinks it protects me a bit too.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:43 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Just remember Chuck; you're not wearing it for you, you are wearing it out of 
empathy for your fellow (wo)man.

bp

On 6/26/2020 9:59 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite 
preference or opinion.
  However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

  I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

  I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

  I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  
  I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd 
person.  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in a 
movie ever.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit when I 
hear that.

bp

On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if those 
are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal sneeze 
guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks with 
their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the Kars for 
Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way 
too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with 
insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of 
wearing a mask wore off long ago……

  Regards,

  David Coudron

  From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite 
preference or opinion.

  However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

  I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

  I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

  I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  

  I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd 
person.  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside
people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each other?
Although being outside probably increases the probability of shouting and,
if you have allergies, sneezing.

 

Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day
after day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in a
movie ever.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit when
I hear that.

 

bp

 

On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I've occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if those
are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal
sneeze guard.  Now I'm having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks
with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the
Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way
too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with
insulation or other items you didn't want to breathe in.   The novelty of
wearing a mask wore off long ago..

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On
Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite
preference or opinion.

However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

 

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

 

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

 

I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  

I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd
person.  





  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low
impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air
velocity is increased.

Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask
since this doesnt spread at protests

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside
> people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each
> other?  Although being outside probably increases the probability of
> shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
>
>
>
> Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
> tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day
> after day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in
> a movie ever.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit
> when I hear that.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if
> those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a
> personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in
> Mars Attacks with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.
> Whenever I hear the Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to
> explode.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *David Coudron
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it
> way too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or
> with insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty
> of wearing a mask wore off long ago……
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the
> opposite preference or opinion.
>
> However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.
>
>
>
> I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.
>
>
>
> I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like
> masks.
>
>
>
> I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.
>
> I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd
> person.
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Syncinjector cambium sync with 3ghz 450m

Can I use any SFP for the 450m 3ghz?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 11:45 AM dave  wrote:

> We have installed dozens of these so I wanted to chime in.
>  First off the difference on connecting up a 5Ghz vs 3.65ghz 450m
> 5Ghz will use only POE and has an aux port and a SFP port
> 3.65Ghz has a DC Port with 4pin connector. It also has a main,aux and SFP
> port.
> In order for any of them to use sync the main port must have Cambium Sync
> to it.
>
> We have started using the DC card packetflux has to power and control the
> 450m 3.65 radios.
> I have  not had any issues by doing so, but we do run the main,aux and
> fiber ports for data and aux control.
>
> One of the thing we do to ensure long term reliability is installing the
> DC Lpus on all cables that use the Cat6 Armored cables
> we also install the DC Lpus for the DC ports. We also have inline fuses to
> each dc port.
> A tip is also add the cable ground kits if your running the armored cable
> up the tower.
>
> We see 300 to 400Mbs of traffic on a couple of our medusas that are cbsd's
> at 30mhz wide
>
> Fiber never looked so good on those ports LOL :)
>
>
>
> On 6/25/20 11:45 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Im confused as shit, and the cambium documentation is not clear. The
> syncinjector cambium sync says 450m, but is the only 450m 5ghz? the 3ghz as
> bestI can tell is a DC only product (even says something about sync over
> power)
>
> so will the syncinjector still provide sync at the ethernet port, i just
> turn off the power output on the syncinjector? or am i misunderstanding
> this and the 450m 3ghz will take power via the ethernet port?
>
> forrest?
>
>
>
>
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] Starlink

You better get off the list and into a horse and buggy!

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 11:03 AM  wrote:

> Yeahbut, I am an old landline and analog trunk guy.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 8:56 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>
> You realize we only talk on VoIP lines and cell phones right?  That's got
> to be the 150-200 ms range.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:50 AM  wrote:
>
>> According to the interwebs:
>>
>> Similarly, the G.114  recommendation
>> regarding mouth-to-ear delay indicates that most users are "very satisfied"
>> as long as latency does not exceed 200 ms, with an according *R* of 90+.
>> Codec choice also plays an important role; the highest quality (and highest
>> bandwidth) codecs like G.711  are
>> usually configured to incur the least encode-decode latency, so on a
>> network with sufficient throughput sub-100 ms latencies can be achieved.
>> G.711 at a bitrate of 64 kbit/s is the encoding method predominantly used
>> on the public switched telephone network
>> .
>>
>> I would not be “very satisfied” at 200ms.  I would want to find a land
>> line at 200 ms.  Not sure who they poll for this stuff but I have actually
>> worked on circuits doing these types of evaluations in the early 1990s.
>> 100 ms sucks.  Once you hit 50 ms I start to lose the ability to detect
>> latency.  At 20 ms nobody can tell.
>>
>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 8:42 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>>
>> If the satellite is directly overhead you have 1.8 ms one way time of
>> flight.
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 8:38 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>>
>>
>> If we are to believe Elon, they are talking 20ms in the beta, and lower
>> thna that when they get a more fully populated constellation.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2020 7:31 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> 70 ms is crappy for gaming and voice.
>> Snow accumulation is a real thing here.
>> I can provide 1G to each customer and can go to 2.5 or 10G with a move of
>> a fiber jumper.
>>
>> Just trying to be a cheerleader.
>>
>> *From:* Gino A. Villarini
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 8:23 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>>
>>
>> Don’t rest on your laurels,
>>
>>
>>
>> -The antenna is not that big, its about 18-20 inches.
>>
>> -Latency is pretty low, below 70ms roundtrip
>>
>> -Speeds would be about 100-500 Mbps to the end user
>>
>> -Fade margin in not that bad with sats being close to the ground.
>>
>>
>>
>> Price of hardware will evantually come down with mass volume from
>> Starlink and other LEO players.   This could disrupt broadband internet as
>> we know it.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Gino*
>> *Villarini *Founder/President
>> @gvillarini
>> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
>> [image: aeronet-logo]  [image: inc500]
>>  [image: fb-logo]
>>   [image: insta-logo]
>>   [image: in-logo]
>>   [image:
>> tw-logo]
>> 
>>   [image: yt-logo]
>> 
>> 
>> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>>
>> *From: *AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com on behalf of Chuck McCown
>> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Date: *Friday, June 26, 2020 at 10:08 AM
>> *To: *af mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>>
>>
>>
>> They will have trees and snow to worry about.
>>
>> I am sure it will not be super cheap either.
>>
>> People don’t like antennas on their houses (sorry wisps but I do fiber
>> now).
>>
>>
>>
>> I am not worried, but I was not worried about Covid either...
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steven Kenney
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 8:03 AM
>>
>> *To:* af
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Starlink
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone worried this could put us out of business?  I'm not really because
>> I don't care how hot your signal is, you'll be going over 100KM into
>> space.  No way they'll get stable latency.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"David Coudron" mailto:david.cou

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

2020-06-26 Thread David Coudron

Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   Basically 
the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds 
droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter virus sized 
particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan behind an 
infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger 
droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.Similar to what Steve is 
saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air is also getting out 
through the mask pushing virus out.Seems like the fancy air diffuser the 
boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No science behind this 
at all, just musing 😊

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low impedance 
exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air velocity is 
increased.

Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask 
since this doesnt spread at protests

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof 
mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside people?  
Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each other?  Although 
being outside probably increases the probability of shouting and, if you have 
allergies, sneezing.

Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the tight-fitting 
N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day.  The ones 
that leave marks on your face.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in a 
movie ever.

From: Bill Prince
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit when I 
hear that.



bp




On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if those 
are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal sneeze 
guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks with 
their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the Kars for 
Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way too 
much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with insulation 
or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of wearing a mask 
wore off long ago……

Regards,

David Coudron
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite 
preference or opinion.
However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.
I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd person.


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

A mix of both.  One part time drafter always wears her mask so we reciprocate.  
I don’t know how the health care folks do it.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside people?  
Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each other?  Although 
being outside probably increases the probability of shouting and, if you have 
allergies, sneezing.

Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the tight-fitting 
N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day.  The ones 
that leave marks on your face.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in a 
movie ever.  

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit when I 
hear that.

bp On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if those 
are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal sneeze 
guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks with 
their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the Kars for 
Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way 
too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with 
insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of 
wearing a mask wore off long ago……

  Regards,

  David Coudron

  From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite 
preference or opinion.

  However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

  I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

  I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

  I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  

  I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd 
person.  

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

They have used the polarized light and florescent sprays to show the mask 
greatly limits the spread.  

From: David Coudron 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   Basically 
the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds 
droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter virus sized 
particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan behind an 
infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger 
droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.Similar to what Steve is 
saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air is also getting out 
through the mask pushing virus out.Seems like the fancy air diffuser the 
boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No science behind this 
at all, just musing 😊

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low impedance 
exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air velocity is 
increased.

Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask 
since this doesnt spread at protests

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside 
people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each other?  
Although being outside probably increases the probability of shouting and, if 
you have allergies, sneezing.

  Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the tight-fitting 
N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day.  The ones 
that leave marks on your face.

  From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in a 
movie ever.  

  From: Bill Prince 

  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

  To: af@af.afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit when I 
hear that.

bp On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if 
those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal 
sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks 
with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the 
Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way 
too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with 
insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of 
wearing a mask wore off long ago……

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the 
opposite preference or opinion.

However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  

I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd 
person.  

--

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  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
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  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

I can use polarized light and fluorescent sprays to show whatever i choose
to show simply by using different sized particulate and exposure period
prior to spray. Its a ll a scam, its the chemtrails man, thats where its
spreading, the chemtrails people actually believe in that stuff,
chemtrails, like actual intelligent and otherwise normal people. I think
the chemtrails make them dumb enough to believe in chemtrails

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:30 PM  wrote:

> They have used the polarized light and florescent sprays to show the mask
> greatly limits the spread.
>
> *From:* David Coudron
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 1:25 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
> Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.
> Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask
> which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter
> virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a
> small fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.
> If no mask, larger droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.
> Similar to what Steve is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting
> in, air is also getting out through the mask pushing virus out.Seems
> like the fancy air diffuser the boss has to make the house smell good, but
> for virus.   No science behind this at all, just musing 😊
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low
> impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air
> velocity is increased.
>
>
>
> Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask
> since this doesnt spread at protests
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside
> people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each
> other?  Although being outside probably increases the probability of
> shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
>
>
>
> Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
> tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day
> after day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in
> a movie ever.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit
> when I hear that.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if
> those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a
> personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in
> Mars Attacks with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.
> Whenever I hear the Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to
> explode.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *David Coudron
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it
> way too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or
> with insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty
> of wearing a mask wore off long ago……
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the
> opposite preference or opinion.
>
> However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.
>
>
>
> I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.
>
>
>
> I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like
> masks.
>
>
>
> I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.
>
> I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd
> person.
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listi

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Dang, and I saw some in February too!

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:39 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

I can use polarized light and fluorescent sprays to show whatever i choose to 
show simply by using different sized particulate and exposure period prior to 
spray. Its a ll a scam, its the chemtrails man, thats where its spreading, the 
chemtrails people actually believe in that stuff, chemtrails, like actual 
intelligent and otherwise normal people. I think the chemtrails make them dumb 
enough to believe in chemtrails

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:30 PM  wrote:

  They have used the polarized light and florescent sprays to show the mask 
greatly limits the spread.  

  From: David Coudron 
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:25 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   
Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which 
holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter virus sized 
particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan behind an 
infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger 
droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.Similar to what Steve is 
saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air is also getting out 
through the mask pushing virus out.Seems like the fancy air diffuser the 
boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No science behind this 
at all, just musing 😊

  Regards,

  David Coudron

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low 
impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air 
velocity is increased.

  Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask 
since this doesnt spread at protests

  On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside 
people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each other?  
Although being outside probably increases the probability of shouting and, if 
you have allergies, sneezing.

Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the 
tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after 
day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in 
a movie ever.  

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit when 
I hear that.

bp On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if 
those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal 
sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks 
with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the 
Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it 
way too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with 
insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of 
wearing a mask wore off long ago……

  Regards,

  David Coudron

  From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the 
opposite preference or opinion.

  However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

  I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

  I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like 
masks.

  I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  

  I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd 
person.  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.a

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

I noticed for the first time today a sign at a fast food drive-thru asking 
customers in cars to wear masks.  I actually would worry more about the money 
or credit card I am handing them.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:30 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

They have used the polarized light and florescent sprays to show the mask 
greatly limits the spread.  

From: David Coudron 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:25 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   Basically 
the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds 
droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter virus sized 
particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan behind an 
infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger 
droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.Similar to what Steve is 
saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air is also getting out 
through the mask pushing virus out.Seems like the fancy air diffuser the 
boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No science behind this 
at all, just musing 😊

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low impedance 
exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air velocity is 
increased.

Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask 
since this doesnt spread at protests

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside people?  
Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each other?  Although 
being outside probably increases the probability of shouting and, if you have 
allergies, sneezing.

Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the tight-fitting 
N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day.  The ones 
that leave marks on your face.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in a 
movie ever.  

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit when I 
hear that.

bp

On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if those 
are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal sneeze 
guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks with 
their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the Kars for 
Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way too 
much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with insulation 
or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of wearing a mask 
wore off long ago……

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite 
preference or opinion.

However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  

I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd person. 

  _  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  _  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing li

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a
  mask reduces probability of your virus' infecting someone from
  around 17% to around 4%.
If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole
  other matter.


bp



On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are
  efficient germ spreaders.   Basically the infected person
  breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds
  droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter
  virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like
  putting a small fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro
  droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger droplets fall
  faster rather than float in the air.    Similar to what Steve
  is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air
  is also getting out through the mask pushing virus out. 
    Seems like the fancy air diffuser the boss has to make the
  house smell good, but for virus.   No science behind this at
  all, just musing
  😊
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron
 
From: AF
   On Behalf Of 
  Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
 

  the irony of the N95 masks with ports is
they have the unfiltered low impedance exhaust port,
actually "spreads" the disease more since the air velocity
is increased.
  
 
  
  
Just call your meeting a protest
  anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask since this
  doesnt spread at protests
  

 

  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken
  Hohhof  wrote:
  
  

  
Chuck,
  are these business meetings with your own employees,
  or outside people?  Can you hold the meetings outside
  and stay 6 feet from each other?  Although being
  outside probably increases the probability of shouting
  and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
 
Imagine
  being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of
  the tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles)
  for a 12 hour shift, day after day.  The ones that
  leave marks on your face.
 
 

  
From:
  AF 
  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
  

 

  

  Indian
  love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all
  time funniest scenes in a movie ever. 



  

   


  
From:
Bill Prince
  
  
  
Sent:
Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM
  
  
To:
af@af.afmug.com
  
  
  
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
  

  
  
 
  


  That
  and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run
  into a hot lava pit when I hear that.
   
  bp
  
   
  
On
6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
  
  
I’ve occasionally seen
people wearing clear face shields.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
So far, the probability of picking up the virus from "objects" is
  relatively low. There is apparently not enough of a viral load to
  cause an infection. You need to be in close contact with an
  infected person for > 15 minutes, and with no masks to get
  enough of a viral load.
But if you do encounter "high touch" items like keypads,
  doorknobs, etc., just carry a small bottle of hand sanitizer.


bp



On 6/26/2020 12:47 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
I noticed for the first time today a sign
  at a fast food drive-thru asking customers in cars to wear
  masks.  I actually would worry more about the money or credit
  card I am handing them.
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:30 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
  

 

  

  They have used
  the polarized light and florescent sprays to show the
  mask greatly limits the spread.  


  

   


  
From:
David Coudron 
  
  
Sent:
Friday, June 26, 2020 1:25 PM
  
  
To:
AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  
  
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
  

  
  
 
  


  Sometimes I
  wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ
  spreaders.   Basically the infected person breathes
  into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds
  droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t
  filter virus sized particles, the mask wearer
  breathing out is like putting a small fan behind an
  infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the
  air.  If no mask, larger droplets fall faster rather
  than float in the air.    Similar to what Steve is
  saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in,
  air is also getting out through the mask pushing virus
  out.    Seems like the fancy air diffuser the boss has
  to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No
  science behind this at all, just musing 😊
   
  Regards,
   
  David
  Coudron
   
  From: AF 
  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
   
  
the irony
of the N95 masks with ports is they have the
unfiltered low impedance exhaust port, actually
"spreads" the disease more since the air velocity is
increased.

   


  Just
  call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont
  need to wear a mask since this doesnt spread at
  protests

  
   
  

  On Fri,
  Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof 
  wrote:


  

  Chuck, are these business
  meetings with your own employees, or outside
  people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and
  stay 6 feet from each other?  Although being
  outside probably increases the probability of
  shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
   
  Imagine being a
  nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of
  the tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably
  goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day. 
  The ones that leave marks on your face.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

link to these "studies"

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a mask
> reduces probability of your virus' infecting someone from around 17% to
> around 4%.
>
> If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole other matter.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:
>
> Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.
> Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask
> which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter
> virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a
> small fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.
> If no mask, larger droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.
> Similar to what Steve is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting
> in, air is also getting out through the mask pushing virus out.Seems
> like the fancy air diffuser the boss has to make the house smell good, but
> for virus.   No science behind this at all, just musing 😊
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of * Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group  
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low
> impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air
> velocity is increased.
>
>
>
> Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask
> since this doesnt spread at protests
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside
> people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each
> other?  Although being outside probably increases the probability of
> shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
>
>
>
> Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
> tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day
> after day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in
> a movie ever.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit
> when I hear that.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if
> those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a
> personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in
> Mars Attacks with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.
> Whenever I hear the Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to
> explode.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *David Coudron
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it
> way too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or
> with insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty
> of wearing a mask wore off long ago……
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the
> opposite preference or opinion.
>
> However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.
>
>
>
> I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.
>
>
>
> I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like
> masks.
>
>
>
> I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.
>
> I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd
> person.
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] LED driver

Just do 12vdc :)

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 4:11 PM  wrote:

> Put 3300 uF caps on the output but still a bit of a flicker.
> I cannot find this part anywhere on the interwebs.
> Like to send an email to someone asking about incoming power purity
> requirements
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
Science News.


bp



On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  link to these "studies"
  
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59
  PM Bill Prince  wrote:


  
The studies they've done indicate that in a close
  environment, a mask reduces probability of your virus'
  infecting someone from around 17% to around 4%.
If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a
  whole other matter.


bp



On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:


  
Sometimes I wonder if low tech
  masks are efficient germ spreaders.   Basically the
  infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into
  mask which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since
  the mask doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the
  mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan
  behind an infected surface, spewing micro droplets
  into the air.  If no mask, larger droplets fall faster
  rather than float in the air.    Similar to what Steve
  is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting
  in, air is also getting out through the mask pushing
  virus out.    Seems like the fancy air diffuser the
  boss has to make the house smell good, but for
  virus.   No science behind this at all, just musing 😊
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron
 
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of  Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
 

  the irony of the N95 masks with
ports is they have the unfiltered low impedance
exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more
since the air velocity is increased.
  
 
  
  
Just call your meeting a
  protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask
  since this doesnt spread at protests
  

 

  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM
  Ken Hohhof 
  wrote:
  
  

  
Chuck, are these business
  meetings with your own employees, or outside
  people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and
  stay 6 feet from each other?  Although being
  outside probably increases the probability of
  shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
 
Imagine being a
  nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of
  the tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably
  goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day. 
  The ones that leave marks on your face.
 
 

  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
  Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying
  dislike
  

 

  

  Indian
  love song.  Splat.  That was one of
  the all time funniest scenes in a
  movie ever.  


  

   


  
From: Bill
Prince 
  
  
Sent:

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

2020-06-26 Thread Seth Mattinen


On 6/26/20 13:07, Steve Jones wrote:

link to these "studies"



Who needs fancy studies? Get a box fan. Cover the front with some cloth. 
The air velocity should be different covered vs. uncovered.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/06/10/coronavirus-8-things-we-got-wrong-at-first-about-the-deadly-pandemic/
bp



On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  link to these "studies"
  
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59
  PM Bill Prince  wrote:


  
The studies they've done indicate that in a close
  environment, a mask reduces probability of your virus'
  infecting someone from around 17% to around 4%.
If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a
  whole other matter.


bp



On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:


  
Sometimes I wonder if low tech
  masks are efficient germ spreaders.   Basically the
  infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into
  mask which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since
  the mask doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the
  mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan
  behind an infected surface, spewing micro droplets
  into the air.  If no mask, larger droplets fall faster
  rather than float in the air.    Similar to what Steve
  is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting
  in, air is also getting out through the mask pushing
  virus out.    Seems like the fancy air diffuser the
  boss has to make the house smell good, but for
  virus.   No science behind this at all, just musing 😊
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron
 
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of  Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
 

  the irony of the N95 masks with
ports is they have the unfiltered low impedance
exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more
since the air velocity is increased.
  
 
  
  
Just call your meeting a
  protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask
  since this doesnt spread at protests
  

 

  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM
  Ken Hohhof 
  wrote:
  
  

  
Chuck, are these business
  meetings with your own employees, or outside
  people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and
  stay 6 feet from each other?  Although being
  outside probably increases the probability of
  shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
 
Imagine being a
  nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of
  the tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably
  goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day. 
  The ones that leave marks on your face.
 
 

  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
  Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying
  dislike
  

 

  

  Indian
  love song.  Splat.  That was one of
  the all time funniest scenes in a
  movie ever.  


  

   


  
From: Bill
Prince

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial


bp



On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  link to these "studies"
  
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59
  PM Bill Prince  wrote:


  
The studies they've done indicate that in a close
  environment, a mask reduces probability of your virus'
  infecting someone from around 17% to around 4%.
If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a
  whole other matter.


bp



On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:


  
Sometimes I wonder if low tech
  masks are efficient germ spreaders.   Basically the
  infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into
  mask which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since
  the mask doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the
  mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan
  behind an infected surface, spewing micro droplets
  into the air.  If no mask, larger droplets fall faster
  rather than float in the air.    Similar to what Steve
  is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting
  in, air is also getting out through the mask pushing
  virus out.    Seems like the fancy air diffuser the
  boss has to make the house smell good, but for
  virus.   No science behind this at all, just musing 😊
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron
 
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of  Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
 

  the irony of the N95 masks with
ports is they have the unfiltered low impedance
exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more
since the air velocity is increased.
  
 
  
  
Just call your meeting a
  protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask
  since this doesnt spread at protests
  

 

  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM
  Ken Hohhof 
  wrote:
  
  

  
Chuck, are these business
  meetings with your own employees, or outside
  people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and
  stay 6 feet from each other?  Although being
  outside probably increases the probability of
  shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
 
Imagine being a
  nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of
  the tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably
  goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day. 
  The ones that leave marks on your face.
 
 

  
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
  Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying
  dislike
  

 

  

  Indian
  love song.  Splat.  That was one of
  the all time funniest scenes in a
  movie ever.  


  

   


  
From: Bill
Prince

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Yeahbut that’s science.  Can’t trust science.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial

bp

On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  link to these "studies"

  On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a mask 
reduces probability of your virus' infecting someone from around 17% to around 
4%.

If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole other matter.

bp

On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:

  Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   
Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which 
holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter virus sized 
particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan behind an 
infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger 
droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.Similar to what Steve is 
saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air is also getting out 
through the mask pushing virus out.Seems like the fancy air diffuser the 
boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No science behind this 
at all, just musing 😊

  Regards,

  David Coudron

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low 
impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air 
velocity is increased.

  Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a 
mask since this doesnt spread at protests

  On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside 
people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each other?  
Although being outside probably increases the probability of shouting and, if 
you have allergies, sneezing.

Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the 
tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after 
day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes 
in a movie ever.  

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit 
when I hear that.

bp On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure 
if those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a 
personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars 
Attacks with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear 
the Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did 
it way too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with 
insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of 
wearing a mask wore off long ago……

  Regards,

  David Coudron

  From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the 
opposite preference or opinion.

  However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst 
humans.

  I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

  I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like 
masks.

  I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  

  I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an 
odd person.  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

lol, so 50% efficacy in a wood shop "study" good laughs

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:21 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

>
> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> link to these "studies"
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a mask
>> reduces probability of your virus' infecting someone from around 17% to
>> around 4%.
>>
>> If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole other matter.
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:
>>
>> Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.
>> Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask
>> which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter
>> virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a
>> small fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.
>> If no mask, larger droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.
>> Similar to what Steve is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting
>> in, air is also getting out through the mask pushing virus out.Seems
>> like the fancy air diffuser the boss has to make the house smell good, but
>> for virus.   No science behind this at all, just musing 😊
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF   *On
>> Behalf Of * Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>
>>
>>
>> the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low
>> impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air
>> velocity is increased.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a
>> mask since this doesnt spread at protests
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside
>> people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each
>> other?  Although being outside probably increases the probability of
>> shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
>> tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day
>> after day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>
>>
>>
>> Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes
>> in a movie ever.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>
>>
>>
>> That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit
>> when I hear that.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if
>> those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a
>> personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in
>> Mars Attacks with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.
>> Whenever I hear the Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to
>> explode.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
>> Behalf Of *David Coudron
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>
>>
>>
>> You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it
>> way too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or
>> with insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty
>> of wearing a mask wore off long ago……
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>
>>
>>
>> With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the
>> opposite preference or opinion.
>>
>> However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.
>>
>>
>>
>> I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like
>> masks.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.
>>
>> I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd
>> person.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.c

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
Right. I put more faith in Kahuna.


bp



On 6/26/2020 1:32 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Yeahbut that’s science.  Can’t trust science.  
  

   
  
From: Bill
Prince 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
  

 
  
  
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial
 
bp



On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve
  Jones wrote:


  link to these "studies"
   
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020
  at 2:59 PM Bill Prince 
  wrote:


  
The studies they've done indicate that in a close
  environment, a mask reduces probability of your
  virus' infecting someone from around 17% to around
  4%.
If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is
  probably a whole other matter.
 
bp



On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:


  
Sometimes I wonder if low
  tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.  
  Basically the infected person breathes
  into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds
  droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask
  doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the mask
  wearer breathing out is like putting a small
  fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro
  droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger
  droplets fall faster rather than float in the
  air.    Similar to what Steve is saying, but
  for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air
  is also getting out through the mask pushing
  virus out.    Seems like the fancy air
  diffuser the boss has to make the house smell
  good, but for virus.   No science behind this
  at all, just musing 😊
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron
 
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying
  dislike
 

  the irony of the N95
masks with ports is they have the unfiltered
low impedance exhaust port, actually
"spreads" the disease more since the air
velocity is increased.
  
 
  
  
Just call your meeting
  a protest anyway, then you dont need to
  wear a mask since this doesnt spread at
  protests
  

 

  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at
  1:26 PM Ken Hohhof 
  wrote:
  
  

  
Chuck, are these
  business meetings with your own
  employees, or outside people?  Can you
  hold the meetings outside and stay 6
  feet from each other?  Although being
  outside probably increases the
  probability of shouting and, if you
  have allergies, sneezing.
 
Imagine being a
  nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Well, if I am going to Home Depot or any other place where we have the general 
public, I want something filtering my incoming air.  Something has to be better 
than nothing.  

Hope the vaccine happens soon and works.  

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:32 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

lol, so 50% efficacy in a wood shop "study" good laughs

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:21 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial

bp

On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

link to these "studies"

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

  The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a mask 
reduces probability of your virus' infecting someone from around 17% to around 
4%.

  If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole other matter.

bp

On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:

Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   
Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which 
holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter virus sized 
particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan behind an 
infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger 
droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.Similar to what Steve is 
saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air is also getting out 
through the mask pushing virus out.Seems like the fancy air diffuser the 
boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No science behind this 
at all, just musing 😊

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low 
impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air 
velocity is increased.

Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a 
mask since this doesnt spread at protests

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or 
outside people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each 
other?  Although being outside probably increases the probability of shouting 
and, if you have allergies, sneezing.

  Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the 
tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after 
day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.

  From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest 
scenes in a movie ever.  

  From: Bill Prince 

  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

  To: af@af.afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava 
pit when I hear that.

bp On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure 
if those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a 
personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars 
Attacks with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear 
the Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   
Did it way too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or 
with insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of 
wearing a mask wore off long ago……

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the 
opposite preference or opinion.

However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst 
humans.

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not 
like masks.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
Recent Studies:

  Rothe
C, Schunk M, Sothmann P, et al. Transmission of 2019-nCoV
Infection from an Asymptomatic Contact in Germany. The New
England journal of medicine. 2020;382(10):970-971.
  Zou L,
Ruan F, Huang M, et al. SARS-CoV-2 Viral Load in Upper
Respiratory Specimens of Infected Patients. The New England
journal of medicine. 2020;382(12):1177-1179.
  Pan X,
Chen D, Xia Y, et al. Asymptomatic cases in a family cluster
with SARS-CoV-2 infection. The Lancet Infectious diseases. 2020.
  Bai Y,
Yao L, Wei T, et al. Presumed Asymptomatic Carrier Transmission
of COVID-19. Jama. 2020.
  Kimball
A HK, Arons M, et al. Asymptomatic and Presymptomatic SARS-CoV-2
Infections in Residents of a Long-Term Care Skilled Nursing
Facility — King County, Washington, March 2020. MMWR Morbidity
and mortality weekly report. 2020; ePub: 27 March 2020.
  Wei WE
LZ, Chiew CJ, Yong SE, Toh MP, Lee VJ. Presymptomatic
Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 — Singapore, January 23–March 16,
2020. MMWR Morbidity and mortality weekly report. 2020;ePub: 1
April 2020.
  Li R,
Pei S, Chen B, et al. Substantial undocumented infection
facilitates the rapid dissemination of novel coronavirus
(SARS-CoV2). Science (New York, NY). 2020.

bp



On 6/26/2020 1:32 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  lol, so 50% efficacy in a wood shop "study" good
laughs
  
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:21
  PM Bill Prince  wrote:


  
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial


bp



On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:


  link to these "studies"
  
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020
  at 2:59 PM Bill Prince 
  wrote:


  
The studies they've done indicate that in a close
  environment, a mask reduces probability of your
  virus' infecting someone from around 17% to around
  4%.
If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is
  probably a whole other matter.


bp



On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:


  
Sometimes I wonder if low
  tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.  
  Basically the infected person breathes
  into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds
  droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask
  doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the mask
  wearer breathing out is like putting a small
  fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro
  droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger
  droplets fall faster rather than float in the
  air.    Similar to what Steve is saying, but
  for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air
  is also getting out through the mask pushing
  virus out.    Seems like the fancy air
  diffuser the boss has to make the house smell
  good, but for virus.   No science behind this
  at all, just musing 😊
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron
 
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of  Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying
  dislike
 

  the irony of the N95
masks with ports is they have the unfiltered
low impedance exhaust port, actually
"spreads" the disease more since the air
velocity is increased.
  
 
  
  
Just call your meeting
  a protest anyway, then you dont need to
  wear a mask since this doesnt sprea

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Kahlua?  I keep all my faith in booze

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:44 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Right. I put more faith in Kahuna.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 1:32 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Yeahbut that’s science.  Can’t trust science.
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:21 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> link to these "studies"
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a mask
>> reduces probability of your virus' infecting someone from around 17% to
>> around 4%.
>>
>> If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole other matter.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:
>>
>> Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.
>> Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask
>> which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter
>> virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a
>> small fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.
>> If no mask, larger droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.
>> Similar to what Steve is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting
>> in, air is also getting out through the mask pushing virus out.Seems
>> like the fancy air diffuser the boss has to make the house smell good, but
>> for virus.   No science behind this at all, just musing 😊
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>
>>
>>
>> the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low
>> impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air
>> velocity is increased.
>>
>>
>>
>> Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a
>> mask since this doesnt spread at protests
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside
>> people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each
>> other?  Although being outside probably increases the probability of
>> shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
>> tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day
>> after day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>
>>
>>
>> Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes
>> in a movie ever.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM
>>
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>
>>
>>
>> That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit
>> when I hear that.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if
>> those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a
>> personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in
>> Mars Attacks with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.
>> Whenever I hear the Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to
>> explode.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *David Coudron
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>
>>
>>
>> You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it
>> way too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or
>> with insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty
>> of wearing a mask wore off long ago……
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>> David Coudron
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>
>>
>>
>> With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the
>> opposite preference or opinion.
>>
>> However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.
>>
>>
>>
>> I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like
>> masks.
>>
>>
>>
>> I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.
>>
>> I am sure someone so

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
CITATIONS
M. Staymates. My stay-at-home lab shows how face
coverings can slow the spread of disease. Taking Measure, the official blog of the
  National Institute of Standards and Technology. June 11, 2020.
W. Lyu and G.L. Wehby. Community use of face masks and COVID-19:
Evidence from a natural experiment of state mandates in the US. Health Affairs. June 16, 2020. doi:
  10.1377/hlthaff.2020.00818.
S.E. Eikenberry et al. To mask or not to mask: Modeling the
potential for face mask
use by the general public to curtail the
COVID-19 pandemic. Infectious
Disease Modelling. April 21, 2020. doi:
  10.1016/j.idm.2020.04.001.
R.O. H.J. Stutt et al. A modelling framework to assess the
likely effectiveness of facemasks in combination with
‘lock-down’ in managing the COVID-19 pandemic. Proceedings of the Royal Society A. June 10,
  2020. doi: 10.1098/rspa.2020.0376.
L.C. Tindale et al. Evidence
for transmission of COVID-19 prior to symptom onset. eLife. June 22, 2020. doi:
  10.7554/eLife.57149
bp



On 6/26/2020 1:32 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  lol, so 50% efficacy in a wood shop "study" good
laughs
  
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:21
  PM Bill Prince  wrote:


  
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial


bp



On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:


  link to these "studies"
  
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020
  at 2:59 PM Bill Prince 
  wrote:


  
The studies they've done indicate that in a close
  environment, a mask reduces probability of your
  virus' infecting someone from around 17% to around
  4%.
If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is
  probably a whole other matter.


bp



On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:


  
Sometimes I wonder if low
  tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.  
  Basically the infected person breathes
  into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds
  droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask
  doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the mask
  wearer breathing out is like putting a small
  fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro
  droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger
  droplets fall faster rather than float in the
  air.    Similar to what Steve is saying, but
  for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air
  is also getting out through the mask pushing
  virus out.    Seems like the fancy air
  diffuser the boss has to make the house smell
  good, but for virus.   No science behind this
  at all, just musing 😊
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron
 
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of  Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying
  dislike
 

  the irony of the N95
masks with ports is they have the unfiltered
low impedance exhaust port, actually
"spreads" the disease more since the air
velocity is increased.
  
 
  
  
Just call your meeting
  a protest anyway, then you dont need to
  wear a mask since this doesnt spread at
  protests
  

 

  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at
  1:26 PM Ken Hohhof

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

I am not looking forward to the looming vaccine controversy. I get a kick
out of how many people are refusing it. Its like really? youre refusing
something that doesnt exist?
And when the first bad reaction happens, OMG the karens will be out in full
force. Then there will be the ads "were you or someone you love vaccine
injured by Ronaccine? If so, contact Slug and Cork law firm"
Im pretty sure I already caught autism (autism is my code word for being a
prick) from the rona vaccine

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:46 PM  wrote:

> Well, if I am going to Home Depot or any other place where we have the
> general public, I want something filtering my incoming air.  Something has
> to be better than nothing.
>
> Hope the vaccine happens soon and works.
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:32 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
> lol, so 50% efficacy in a wood shop "study" good laughs
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:21 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>
>> link to these "studies"
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>
>>> The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a mask
>>> reduces probability of your virus' infecting someone from around 17% to
>>> around 4%.
>>>
>>> If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole other
>>> matter.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:
>>>
>>> Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.
>>> Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask
>>> which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter
>>> virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a
>>> small fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.
>>> If no mask, larger droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.
>>> Similar to what Steve is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting
>>> in, air is also getting out through the mask pushing virus out.Seems
>>> like the fancy air diffuser the boss has to make the house smell good, but
>>> for virus.   No science behind this at all, just musing 😊
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> David Coudron
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low
>>> impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air
>>> velocity is increased.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a
>>> mask since this doesnt spread at protests
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>> Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside
>>> people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each
>>> other?  Although being outside probably increases the probability of
>>> shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
>>> tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day
>>> after day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes
>>> in a movie ever.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM
>>>
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit
>>> when I hear that.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> bp
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>
>>> I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if
>>> those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a
>>> personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in
>>> Mars Attacks with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.
>>> Whenever I hear the Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to
>>> explode.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *David Coudron
>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it
>>> way too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
http://med.stanford.edu/news/all-news/2020/06/stanford-scientists-contribute-to-who-mask-guidelines.html
bp



On 6/26/2020 1:32 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  lol, so 50% efficacy in a wood shop "study" good
laughs
  
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:21
  PM Bill Prince  wrote:


  
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial


bp



On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:


  link to these "studies"
  
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020
  at 2:59 PM Bill Prince 
  wrote:


  
The studies they've done indicate that in a close
  environment, a mask reduces probability of your
  virus' infecting someone from around 17% to around
  4%.
If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is
  probably a whole other matter.


bp



On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:


  
Sometimes I wonder if low
  tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.  
  Basically the infected person breathes
  into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds
  droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask
  doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the mask
  wearer breathing out is like putting a small
  fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro
  droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger
  droplets fall faster rather than float in the
  air.    Similar to what Steve is saying, but
  for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air
  is also getting out through the mask pushing
  virus out.    Seems like the fancy air
  diffuser the boss has to make the house smell
  good, but for virus.   No science behind this
  at all, just musing 😊
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron
 
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of  Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying
  dislike
 

  the irony of the N95
masks with ports is they have the unfiltered
low impedance exhaust port, actually
"spreads" the disease more since the air
velocity is increased.
  
 
  
  
Just call your meeting
  a protest anyway, then you dont need to
  wear a mask since this doesnt spread at
  protests
  

 

  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at
  1:26 PM Ken Hohhof 
  wrote:
  
  

  
Chuck, are these
  business meetings with your own
  employees, or outside people?  Can you
  hold the meetings outside and stay 6
  feet from each other?  Although being
  outside probably increases the
  probability of shouting and, if you
  have allergies, sneezing.
 
Imagine being a
  nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing
  one of the tight-fitting N95 masks
  (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour
  shift, day afte

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/coronavirus-mask/art-20485449
bp



On 6/26/2020 1:32 PM, Steve Jones
  wrote:


  
  lol, so 50% efficacy in a wood shop "study" good
laughs
  
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:21
  PM Bill Prince  wrote:


  
https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial


bp



On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:


  link to these "studies"
  
  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020
  at 2:59 PM Bill Prince 
  wrote:


  
The studies they've done indicate that in a close
  environment, a mask reduces probability of your
  virus' infecting someone from around 17% to around
  4%.
If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is
  probably a whole other matter.


bp



On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:


  
Sometimes I wonder if low
  tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.  
  Basically the infected person breathes
  into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds
  droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask
  doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the mask
  wearer breathing out is like putting a small
  fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro
  droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger
  droplets fall faster rather than float in the
  air.    Similar to what Steve is saying, but
  for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air
  is also getting out through the mask pushing
  virus out.    Seems like the fancy air
  diffuser the boss has to make the house smell
  good, but for virus.   No science behind this
  at all, just musing 😊
 
Regards,
 
David Coudron
 
From: AF 
  On Behalf Of  Steve Jones
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying
  dislike
 

  the irony of the N95
masks with ports is they have the unfiltered
low impedance exhaust port, actually
"spreads" the disease more since the air
velocity is increased.
  
 
  
  
Just call your meeting
  a protest anyway, then you dont need to
  wear a mask since this doesnt spread at
  protests
  

 

  
On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at
  1:26 PM Ken Hohhof 
  wrote:
  
  

  
Chuck, are these
  business meetings with your own
  employees, or outside people?  Can you
  hold the meetings outside and stay 6
  feet from each other?  Although being
  outside probably increases the
  probability of shouting and, if you
  have allergies, sneezing.
 
Imagine being a
  nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing
  one of the tight-fitting N95 masks
  (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour
  shift, day after day.

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

2020-06-26 Thread Seth Mattinen

You can throw all the studies you want around, but people who refuse to 
believe it simply won't. Otherwise it would mean they were wrong and you 
can't be wrong on the internet anymore, you gotta die on the hill you 
took. Politicians can't change their minds either because then they're a 
flip-flopper or indecisive come election time.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Links in article to conflicting studies
https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy

Odd how study results tend to ebb and flow with the political winds.

Remember how all the healthcare workers were dying, but now have managed to
be resurrected? It's the miracle of modern science I tell ya.

All the outrage over the "defective" masks the administration ordered, but
suddenly an old sock keeps everyone safe.

Stop doing what the chemtrails and 5g are telling you to do. It's just a
distraction so you dont notice that climate change is melting the ice walls
on the edge of the earth. When that happens, we will all wash of the
planets surface onto the big turtle anyway, so it doesnt really matter if I
wear a mask, maxipad, or the skin of my enemies face, none of us are going
to survive a fall of that distance. If anyone happens to miraculously be
cushioned enough to live through it, we will eventually fall off the turtle
into space anyway and explode

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 3:55 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:

> You can throw all the studies you want around, but people who refuse to
> believe it simply won't. Otherwise it would mean they were wrong and you
> can't be wrong on the internet anymore, you gotta die on the hill you
> took. Politicians can't change their minds either because then they're a
> flip-flopper or indecisive come election time.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Oh yeah. I do the rcreader all the time. Voice of authority.
lent

On 6/26/2020 2:04 PM, Steve Jones
wrote:

Links in article to conflicting studies
https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy

Odd how study results tend to ebb and flow with
the political winds.

Remember how all the healthcare workers were
dying, but now have managed to be resurrected? It's the
miracle of modern science I tell ya.

All the outrage over the "defective" masks the
administration ordered, but suddenly an old sock keeps
everyone safe.

Stop doing what the chemtrails and 5g are
telling you to do. It's just a distraction so you dont notice
that climate change is melting the ice walls on the edge of
the earth. When that happens, we will all wash of the planets
surface onto the big turtle anyway, so it doesnt really matter
if I wear a mask, maxipad, or the skin of my enemies face,
none of us are going to survive a fall of that distance. If
anyone happens to miraculously be cushioned enough to live
through it, we will eventually fall off the turtle into space
anyway and explode

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 3:55 PM
Seth Mattinen wrote:

You can
throw all the studies you want around, but people who refuse
to
believe it simply won't. Otherwise it would mean they were
wrong and you
can't be wrong on the internet anymore, you gotta die on the
hill you
took. Politicians can't change their minds either because then
they're a
flip-flopper or indecisive come election time.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Most cloth masks with a tight weave fabric are equal to N50. I will find 
the article and are useful for reducing the distance that virus floats.  
From 27 meters to 1 meter. So they do work both ways.  Yes you need 
to wash them daily.  Masks work even if not as complete as N95 they are 
so many miles better than nothing.   The cloth masks have been modeled 
extensively to get the results that we should wear them.   Discount it 
all you want. The science says wear them.   I find it amazing that there 
is disagreement on that in this group.


On 6/26/20 1:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:


Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   
Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into 
mask which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask 
doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out is 
like putting a small fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro 
droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger droplets fall faster rather 
than float in the air.    Similar to what Steve is saying, but for 
non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air is also getting out through 
the mask pushing virus out.   Seems like the fancy air diffuser the 
boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No science 
behind this at all, just musing 😊


Regards,

David Coudron

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Steve Jones
*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low 
impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the 
air velocity is increased.


Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a 
mask since this doesnt spread at protests


On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or
outside people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet
from each other?  Although being outside probably increases the
probability of shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.

Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour
shift, day after day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com

*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest
scenes in a movie ever.

*From:*Bill Prince

*Sent:*Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava
pit when I hear that.

bp



On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not
sure if those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks. 
Kind of like a personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental
picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks with their heads
exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the
Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *David
Coudron
*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing
masks.   Did it way too much as a kid on the farm when working
in dusty environments or with insulation or other items you
didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of wearing a mask
wore off long ago……

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of
*ch...@wbmfg.com 
*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone
with the opposite preference or opinion.

However, one particular feeling might be universally held
amongst humans.

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business
meetings.

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do
not like masks.

I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.

I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would
be an odd person.



-- 
AF mailing list

A

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Interesting about money.   I have about 8 gallons of 96% alcohol and was 
wondering about using it to disinfect $$.  So a little research talked 
about how much better 70% alcohol/30% distilled water was much better to 
disinfect with.  Turns out that it's because 90+% evaporates before it 
can do it's magic.  But wad of cash put into a glass of 90+% and let sit 
for 5 minutes is _very_ effective.  So what we need is glasses of 
Everclear at every table to dip our $$ into to make it safe.   Seems 
like an answer I can get behind...


On 6/26/20 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I noticed for the first time today a sign at a fast food drive-thru 
asking customers in cars to wear masks.  I actually would worry more 
about the money or credit card I am handing them.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:30 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

They have used the polarized light and florescent sprays to show the 
mask greatly limits the spread.


*From:*David Coudron

*Sent:*Friday, June 26, 2020 1:25 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   
Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into 
mask which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask 
doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out is 
like putting a small fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro 
droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger droplets fall faster rather 
than float in the air.    Similar to what Steve is saying, but for 
non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air is also getting out through 
the mask pushing virus out.    Seems like the fancy air diffuser the 
boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No science 
behind this at all, just musing 😊


Regards,

David Coudron

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
*On Behalf Of *Steve Jones

*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low 
impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the 
air velocity is increased.


Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a 
mask since this doesnt spread at protests


On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or
outside people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet
from each other?  Although being outside probably increases the
probability of shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.

Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour
shift, day after day. The ones that leave marks on your face.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com

*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest
scenes in a movie ever.

*From:*Bill Prince

*Sent:*Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava
pit when I hear that.

bp



On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not
sure if those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks. 
Kind of like a personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental
picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks with their heads
exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the
Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *David
Coudron
*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing
masks.   Did it way too much as a kid on the farm when working
in dusty environments or with insulation or other items you
didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of wearing a mask
wore off long ago……

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of
*ch...@wbmfg.com 
*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

With almost every thought or opinion th

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
It all boils down to the CDC in the beginning saying not to wear
  them b/c they were afrain people would exhaust the supply for
  medical workers. After they changed their mind, then people got
  confused.
Then on top of that you have people insisting their "rights" are
  being compromised, plus the other idiots who won't wear them for
  vanity reasons.
All OK with me. Die in the cold in the dark.


bp



On 6/26/2020 2:20 PM, Robert wrote:


  
  Most cloth masks with a tight weave fabric are equal to N50. I
will find the article and are useful for reducing the distance
that virus floats.  From 27 meters to 1 meter. So they do
work both ways.  Yes you need to wash them daily.  Masks work
even if not as complete as N95 they are so many miles better
than nothing.   The cloth masks have been modeled extensively to
get the results that we should wear them.   Discount it all you
want.  The science says wear them.   I find it amazing that
there is disagreement on that in this group.  
  
  On 6/26/20 1:25 PM, David Coudron
wrote:
  
  





  Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are
efficient germ spreaders.   Basically the infected person
breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds
droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t
filter virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out
is like putting a small fan behind an infected surface,
spewing micro droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger
droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.   
Similar to what Steve is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If
air is getting in, air is also getting out through the mask
pushing virus out.    Seems like the fancy air diffuser the
boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No
science behind this at all, just musing 😊
   
  Regards,
   
  David Coudron
   
  From: AF 
On Behalf Of  Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
   
  
the irony of the N95 masks with ports
  is they have the unfiltered low impedance exhaust port,
  actually "spreads" the disease more since the air velocity
  is increased.

   


  Just call your meeting a protest
anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask since this
doesnt spread at protests

  
   
  

  On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken
Hohhof  wrote:


  

  Chuck,
are these business meetings with your own employees,
or outside people?  Can you hold the meetings
outside and stay 6 feet from each other?  Although
being outside probably increases the probability of
shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
   
  Imagine
being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of
the tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles)
for a 12 hour shift, day after day.  The ones that
leave marks on your face.
   
   
  

  From:
AF 
On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  
   
  

  
Indian
love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all
time funniest scenes in a movie ever.  
  
  

  
 
  
  

  From:
  Bill Prince 


  Sent:
  Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike


  
  
Don't use cash.


bp



On 6/26/2020 2:26 PM, Robert wrote:


  
  Interesting about money.   I have about 8 gallons of 96%
alcohol and was wondering about using it to disinfect $$.  So a
little research talked about how much better 70% alcohol/30%
distilled water was much better to disinfect with.  Turns out
that it's because 90+% evaporates before it can do it's magic. 
But wad of cash put into a glass of 90+% and let sit for 5
minutes is _very_ effective.  So what we need is glasses of
Everclear at every table to dip our $$ into to make it safe.  
Seems like an answer I can get behind...
  
  On 6/26/20 1:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
  
  





  I noticed for the first time today a sign
at a fast food drive-thru asking customers in cars to wear
masks.  I actually would worry more about the money or
credit card I am handing them.
   
  

  From: AF 
On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:30 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  
   
  

  
They have used
the polarized light and florescent sprays to show
the mask greatly limits the spread.  
  
  

  
 
  
  

  From:
  David Coudron 


  Sent:
  Friday, June 26, 2020 1:25 PM


  To:
  AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 


  Subject:
  Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  


   

  
  
Sometimes
I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ
spreaders.   Basically the infected person breathes
into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds
droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask
doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the mask
wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan
behind an infected surface, spewing micro droplets
into the air.  If no mask, larger droplets fall
faster rather than float in the air.    Similar to
what Steve is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air
is getting in, air is also getting out through the
mask pushing virus out.    Seems like the fancy air
diffuser the boss has to make the house smell good,
but for virus.   No science behind this at all, just
musing 😊
 
Regards,
 
David
Coudron
 
From: AF 
On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
 

  the
  irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the
  unfiltered low impedance exhaust port, actually
  "spreads" the disease more since the air velocity
  is increased.
  
 
  
  
Just
call your meeting a protest anyway, then you
dont need to wear a mask since this doesnt
spread at protests
  

 

  
On
Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof 
wrote:
  
  

  
Chuck, are these
business meetings with your own employees,
or outside people?  Can you hold the
meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each
other?  Although being outside probably
increases the

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Or use a sanitizing wipe to handle such surfaces..   In China they say a 
disposable tissue is enough.   I like the idea of using sanitizing wipes 
because I feel like I'm leaving the surface more disinfected than I 
found it.


On 6/26/20 2:01 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


So far, the probability of picking up the virus from "objects" is 
relatively low. There is apparently not enough of a viral load to 
cause an infection. You need to be in close contact with an infected 
person for > 15 minutes, and with no masks to get enough of a viral load.


But if you do encounter "high touch" items like keypads, doorknobs, 
etc., just carry a small bottle of hand sanitizer.



bp


On 6/26/2020 12:47 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I noticed for the first time today a sign at a fast food drive-thru 
asking customers in cars to wear masks.  I actually would worry more 
about the money or credit card I am handing them.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:30 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

They have used the polarized light and florescent sprays to show the 
mask greatly limits the spread.


*From:*David Coudron

*Sent:*Friday, June 26, 2020 1:25 PM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   
Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into 
mask which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask 
doesn’t filter virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out 
is like putting a small fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro 
droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger droplets fall faster 
rather than float in the air.    Similar to what Steve is saying, but 
for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air is also getting out 
through the mask pushing virus out.    Seems like the fancy air 
diffuser the boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   
No science behind this at all, just musing 😊


Regards,

David Coudron

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> 
*On Behalf Of *Steve Jones

*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low 
impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the 
air velocity is increased.


Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a 
mask since this doesnt spread at protests


On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or
outside people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6
feet from each other?  Although being outside probably increases
the probability of shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.

Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour
shift, day after day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com

*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest
scenes in a movie ever.

*From:*Bill Prince

*Sent:*Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com 

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot
lava pit when I hear that.

bp



On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields. 
Not sure if those are effective and/or allowed instead of
masks.  Kind of like a personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having
a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks with their
heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear
the Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *David
Coudron
*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing
masks.   Did it way too much as a kid on the farm when
working in dusty environments or with insulation or other
items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of wearing
a mask wore off long ago……

Regards,

David Coudron

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of
*ch...@wbmfg.com 
*Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Yep and this time "die on the hill you took" will actually be true for 
some percentage...


On 6/26/20 2:54 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
You can throw all the studies you want around, but people who refuse 
to believe it simply won't. Otherwise it would mean they were wrong 
and you can't be wrong on the internet anymore, you gotta die on the 
hill you took. Politicians can't change their minds either because 
then they're a flip-flopper or indecisive come election time.





--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Links to studies in article

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 4:15 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> Oh yeah. I do the rcreader all the time. Voice of authority.
>
> lent
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 2:04 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> Links in article to conflicting studies
>
> https://www.rcreader.com/commentary/masks-dont-work-covid-a-review-of-science-relevant-to-covide-19-social-policy
>
> Odd how study results tend to ebb and flow with the political winds.
>
> Remember how all the healthcare workers were dying, but now have managed
> to be resurrected? It's the miracle of modern science I tell ya.
>
> All the outrage over the "defective" masks the administration ordered, but
> suddenly an old sock keeps everyone safe.
>
> Stop doing what the chemtrails and 5g are telling you to do. It's just a
> distraction so you dont notice that climate change is melting the ice walls
> on the edge of the earth. When that happens, we will all wash of the
> planets surface onto the big turtle anyway, so it doesnt really matter if I
> wear a mask, maxipad, or the skin of my enemies face, none of us are going
> to survive a fall of that distance. If anyone happens to miraculously be
> cushioned enough to live through it, we will eventually fall off the turtle
> into space anyway and explode
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 3:55 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
>> You can throw all the studies you want around, but people who refuse to
>> believe it simply won't. Otherwise it would mean they were wrong and you
>> can't be wrong on the internet anymore, you gotta die on the hill you
>> took. Politicians can't change their minds either because then they're a
>> flip-flopper or indecisive come election time.
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Mask wearing seems to have acquired culture war or political significance, 
beyond scientific or medical facts.  Like wearing a MAGA hat or a BLM shirt or 
gang colors.

 

So maybe it’s another topic like religion and politics that we need to just 
walk away from on this list?

 

Although it does factor into our business practices.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 3:47 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

Kahlua?  I keep all my faith in booze

 

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:44 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Right. I put more faith in Kahuna.

 

bp

 

On 6/26/2020 1:32 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Yeahbut that’s science.  Can’t trust science.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:21 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial

 

bp

 

On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

link to these "studies"

 

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a mask reduces 
probability of your virus' infecting someone from around 17% to around 4%.

If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole other matter.

 

bp

 

On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:

Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   Basically 
the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds 
droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter virus sized 
particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan behind an 
infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.  If no mask, larger 
droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.Similar to what Steve is 
saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air is also getting out 
through the mask pushing virus out.Seems like the fancy air diffuser the 
boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No science behind this 
at all, just musing 😊

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low impedance 
exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air velocity is 
increased.

 

Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask 
since this doesnt spread at protests

 

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside people?  
Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each other?  Although 
being outside probably increases the probability of shouting and, if you have 
allergies, sneezing.

 

Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the tight-fitting 
N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day.  The ones 
that leave marks on your face.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in a 
movie ever.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit when I 
hear that.

 

bp

 

On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if those 
are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal sneeze 
guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks with 
their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the Kars for 
Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way too 
much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with insulation 
or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of wearing a mask 
wore off long ago……

 

Regards,

 

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

2020-06-26 Thread Chuck McCown

I wonder how many in the over 60 crowd refuse masks compared to younger groups. 
 If I was younger I might not be as vigilant too.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 26, 2020, at 3:42 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> 
> Mask wearing seems to have acquired culture war or political significance, 
> beyond scientific or medical facts.  Like wearing a MAGA hat or a BLM shirt 
> or gang colors.
>  
> So maybe it’s another topic like religion and politics that we need to just 
> walk away from on this list?
>  
> Although it does factor into our business practices.
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 3:47 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>  
> Kahlua?  I keep all my faith in booze
>  
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:44 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
> Right. I put more faith in Kahuna.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 6/26/2020 1:32 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> Yeahbut that’s science.  Can’t trust science. 
>  
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:21 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>  
> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
> link to these "studies"
>  
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
> The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a mask reduces 
> probability of your virus' infecting someone from around 17% to around 4%.
> 
> If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole other matter.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:
> Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   
> Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask 
> which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter 
> virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small 
> fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.  If no 
> mask, larger droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.Similar to 
> what Steve is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting in, air is 
> also getting out through the mask pushing virus out.Seems like the fancy 
> air diffuser the boss has to make the house smell good, but for virus.   No 
> science behind this at all, just musing 😊
>  
> Regards,
>  
> David Coudron
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Steve Jones
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>  
> the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low 
> impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air 
> velocity is increased.
>  
> Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask 
> since this doesnt spread at protests
>  
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside 
> people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each other?  
> Although being outside probably increases the probability of shouting and, if 
> you have allergies, sneezing.
>  
> Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the tight-fitting 
> N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day.  The 
> ones that leave marks on your face.
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>  
> Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in a 
> movie ever. 
>  
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>  
> That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit when I 
> hear that.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if those 
> are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal 
> sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks 
> with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the 
> Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>  
> You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way 
> too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with 
> insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of 
> wearing a mask wore off long ago……
>  
> Regards,
>  
> David Coudron
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Friday, Ju

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

I see the opposite, younger people are wearing them more because its trendy
like wearing pokemon. 50 plus seem to be less likely to wear them. Older
women without tend to have smoker skin, probably figuring the Rona is less
concerning than the probable lung cancer growing in their chests. Old
farmers (most of the old men around here) run about 90 percent without
masks. They probably figure if 50 years of inhaling pesticides and
herbicides didnt kill them, some chinese flu wont get them, probably on a
related note, they likely killed a bunch of koreans and Japanese in various
wars and assume that means they can beat anything china throws at them.

The worst maskers are the young females, they will follow people around
talking about how the person in front doesn't have a mask on, oblivious to
the fact that if their religion of masks is true, they're getting super
exposed to the germs from the person they're following around, to ignorant
to "listen to the science" that says masks are to stop the wearer from
spreading and have little to no bearing on stopping the wearer from
catching it. Probably explains why so many 20 something females keep coming
up positive.

This trend will pass like bedazzling did and the youth maskers will fade
out.

I wear my mask everywhere I go, in my pocket.

80 percent of people may have a mask on, but they might as well have it in
their pocket too since they're not wearing them correctly.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 4:53 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> I wonder how many in the over 60 crowd refuse masks compared to younger
> groups.  If I was younger I might not be as vigilant too.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jun 26, 2020, at 3:42 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Mask wearing seems to have acquired culture war or political significance,
> beyond scientific or medical facts.  Like wearing a MAGA hat or a BLM shirt
> or gang colors.
>
>
>
> So maybe it’s another topic like religion and politics that we need to
> just walk away from on this list?
>
>
>
> Although it does factor into our business practices.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 3:47 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> Kahlua?  I keep all my faith in booze
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:44 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> Right. I put more faith in Kahuna.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 1:32 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Yeahbut that’s science.  Can’t trust science.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:21 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
>
> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>
> link to these "studies"
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
> The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a mask
> reduces probability of your virus' infecting someone from around 17% to
> around 4%.
>
> If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole other matter.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:
>
> Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.
> Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask
> which holds droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter
> virus sized particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a
> small fan behind an infected surface, spewing micro droplets into the air.
> If no mask, larger droplets fall faster rather than float in the air.
> Similar to what Steve is saying, but for non-N95 masks.  If air is getting
> in, air is also getting out through the mask pushing virus out.Seems
> like the fancy air diffuser the boss has to make the house smell good, but
> for virus.   No science behind this at all, just musing 😊
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 2:05 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> the irony of the N95 masks with ports is they have the unfiltered low
> impedance exhaust port, actually "spreads" the disease more since the air
> velocity is increased.
>
>
>
> Just call your meeting a protest anyway, then you dont need to wear a mask
> since this doesnt spread at protests
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 1:26 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside
> people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each
> other?  Although being outside probably increases the probability of
> shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
>
>
>
> Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
> tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day
> after day.  The

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Young people wear masks because they’re working retail, food service, delivery, 
etc. and they are required to in order to protect customers and coworkers.

 

When I see the restaurants and bars with outdoor service and none of the 
customers have masks (and legitimately you can’t eat with a mask on) but all 
the service people have masks and in many cases gloves, it has an uncomfortable 
feel like the servers are a lower class attending to the elites or something.  
Like Hunger Games, or apartheid or something.  And those servers are much more 
at risk than the rest of us, having close contact with lots of people every 
day, and with the asymmetric protection a mask affords.

 

Many other workers face a similar issue if they have to wear PPE but their 
customers don’t.  Retail, airline, casino, etc.  My son went to the dentist the 
other day.  I guess dentists are seeing customers again.  I really need to go.  
But I wouldn’t want to be a dentist or dental hygienist right now.  I guess you 
wear a mask and gloves and eye protection and wipe down the equipment after 
each patient and hope none of the patients are asymptomatic spreaders.  Like 
those unafraid young people.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 5:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

I see the opposite, younger people are wearing them more because its trendy 
like wearing pokemon. 50 plus seem to be less likely to wear them. Older women 
without tend to have smoker skin, probably figuring the Rona is less concerning 
than the probable lung cancer growing in their chests. Old farmers (most of the 
old men around here) run about 90 percent without masks. They probably figure 
if 50 years of inhaling pesticides and herbicides didnt kill them, some chinese 
flu wont get them, probably on a related note, they likely killed a bunch of 
koreans and Japanese in various wars and assume that means they can beat 
anything china throws at them.

 

The worst maskers are the young females, they will follow people around talking 
about how the person in front doesn't have a mask on, oblivious to the fact 
that if their religion of masks is true, they're getting super exposed to the 
germs from the person they're following around, to ignorant to "listen to the 
science" that says masks are to stop the wearer from spreading and have little 
to no bearing on stopping the wearer from catching it. Probably explains why so 
many 20 something females keep coming up positive.

 

This trend will pass like bedazzling did and the youth maskers will fade out.

 

I wear my mask everywhere I go, in my pocket.

 

80 percent of people may have a mask on, but they might as well have it in 
their pocket too since they're not wearing them correctly.

 

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 4:53 PM Chuck McCown mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I wonder how many in the over 60 crowd refuse masks compared to younger groups. 
 If I was younger I might not be as vigilant too.

Sent from my iPhone





On Jun 26, 2020, at 3:42 PM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:



Mask wearing seems to have acquired culture war or political significance, 
beyond scientific or medical facts.  Like wearing a MAGA hat or a BLM shirt or 
gang colors.

 

So maybe it’s another topic like religion and politics that we need to just 
walk away from on this list?

 

Although it does factor into our business practices.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 3:47 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

Kahlua?  I keep all my faith in booze

 

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:44 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Right. I put more faith in Kahuna.

 

bp

 

On 6/26/2020 1:32 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Yeahbut that’s science.  Can’t trust science.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:21 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

 

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial

 

bp

 

On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

link to these "studies"

 

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com> > wrote:

The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a mask reduces 
probability of your virus' infecting someone from around 17% to around 4%.

If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole other matter.

 

bp

 

On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:

Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ spreaders.   Basically 
the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes into mask which holds 
droplets infected with virus.   Since the mask doesn’t filter virus sized 
particles, the mask wearer breathing out is like putting a small fan behind an 
infected surfac

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

2020-06-26 Thread Nate Burke


The Wife sent me this link today.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/this-chart-shows-the-link-between-restaurant-spending-and-new-coronavirus-cases.html

This is the whole causation/correlation question.

On 6/26/2020 5:37 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:
Wear the mask...stop the spread...our state got worse and today Abbot, 
a lackey, closed bars againnever should have opened them...period
I have N95s and my really good one in case idiots around me don't wear 
them.


On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 11:00 AM > wrote:


With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with
the opposite preference or opinion.
However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst
humans.
I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.
I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not
like masks.
I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.
I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be
an odd person.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

2020-06-26 Thread Tim Hardy

This 100%.  Realize that it’s not all about you - it’s about your fellow 
humans.  Do no harm..

Sent from my iPad

> On Jun 26, 2020, at 6:38 PM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:
> 
> 
> Wear the mask...stop the spread...our state got worse and today Abbot, a 
> lackey, closed bars againnever should have opened them...period 
> I have N95s and my really good one in case idiots around me don't wear them.
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 11:00 AM  wrote:
>> With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite 
>> preference or opinion.
>> However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.
>>  
>> I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings. 
>>  
>> I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.
>>  
>> I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose. 
>> I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd 
>> person. 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

I don’t mind being waited on by Katniss.

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 4:33 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Young people wear masks because they’re working retail, food service, delivery, 
etc. and they are required to in order to protect customers and coworkers.

When I see the restaurants and bars with outdoor service and none of the 
customers have masks (and legitimately you can’t eat with a mask on) but all 
the service people have masks and in many cases gloves, it has an uncomfortable 
feel like the servers are a lower class attending to the elites or something.  
Like Hunger Games, or apartheid or something.  And those servers are much more 
at risk than the rest of us, having close contact with lots of people every 
day, and with the asymmetric protection a mask affords.

Many other workers face a similar issue if they have to wear PPE but their 
customers don’t.  Retail, airline, casino, etc.  My son went to the dentist the 
other day.  I guess dentists are seeing customers again.  I really need to go.  
But I wouldn’t want to be a dentist or dental hygienist right now.  I guess you 
wear a mask and gloves and eye protection and wipe down the equipment after 
each patient and hope none of the patients are asymptomatic spreaders.  Like 
those unafraid young people.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 5:14 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

I see the opposite, younger people are wearing them more because its trendy 
like wearing pokemon. 50 plus seem to be less likely to wear them. Older women 
without tend to have smoker skin, probably figuring the Rona is less concerning 
than the probable lung cancer growing in their chests. Old farmers (most of the 
old men around here) run about 90 percent without masks. They probably figure 
if 50 years of inhaling pesticides and herbicides didnt kill them, some chinese 
flu wont get them, probably on a related note, they likely killed a bunch of 
koreans and Japanese in various wars and assume that means they can beat 
anything china throws at them.

The worst maskers are the young females, they will follow people around talking 
about how the person in front doesn't have a mask on, oblivious to the fact 
that if their religion of masks is true, they're getting super exposed to the 
germs from the person they're following around, to ignorant to "listen to the 
science" that says masks are to stop the wearer from spreading and have little 
to no bearing on stopping the wearer from catching it. Probably explains why so 
many 20 something females keep coming up positive.

This trend will pass like bedazzling did and the youth maskers will fade out.

I wear my mask everywhere I go, in my pocket.

80 percent of people may have a mask on, but they might as well have it in 
their pocket too since they're not wearing them correctly.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 4:53 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

  I wonder how many in the over 60 crowd refuse masks compared to younger 
groups.  If I was younger I might not be as vigilant too.

  Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 26, 2020, at 3:42 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

Mask wearing seems to have acquired culture war or political significance, 
beyond scientific or medical facts.  Like wearing a MAGA hat or a BLM shirt or 
gang colors.

So maybe it’s another topic like religion and politics that we need to just 
walk away from on this list?

Although it does factor into our business practices.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 3:47 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Kahlua?  I keep all my faith in booze

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 3:44 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

  Right. I put more faith in Kahuna.

bp On 6/26/2020 1:32 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Yeahbut that’s science.  Can’t trust science.  

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 2:21 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/covid-19-coronavirus-why-wearing-masks-controversial

bp On 6/26/2020 1:07 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

  link to these "studies"

  On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 2:59 PM Bill Prince  
wrote:

The studies they've done indicate that in a close environment, a 
mask reduces probability of your virus' infecting someone from around 17% to 
around 4%.

If you're sneezing and/or coughing, that is probably a whole other 
matter.

bp On 6/26/2020 12:25 PM, David Coudron wrote:

  Sometimes I wonder if low tech masks are efficient germ 
spreaders.   Basically the infected person breathes into/coughs into/sneezes 
into

Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Utah opened in 3 phases starting in May.  Each phase was accompanied by a 
corresponding jump in new cases. 

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 4:37 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Wear the mask...stop the spread...our state got worse and today Abbot, a 
lackey, closed bars againnever should have opened them...period  
I have N95s and my really good one in case idiots around me don't wear them.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 11:00 AM  wrote:

  With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite 
preference or opinion.
  However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

  I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

  I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

  I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  
  I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd 
person.  
  -- 
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  AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

2020-06-26 Thread Jaime Solorza

Trump is a her? Draft dodger ? Didn't know.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 1:29 PM  wrote:

> A mix of both.  One part time drafter always wears her mask so we
> reciprocate.
> I don’t know how the health care folks do it.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 12:25 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
> Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside
> people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each
> other?  Although being outside probably increases the probability of
> shouting and, if you have allergies, sneezing.
>
>
>
> Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the
> tight-fitting N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day
> after day.  The ones that leave marks on your face.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in
> a movie ever.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit
> when I hear that.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if
> those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a
> personal sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in
> Mars Attacks with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.
> Whenever I hear the Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to
> explode.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *David Coudron
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it
> way too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or
> with insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty
> of wearing a mask wore off long ago……
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
>
> David Coudron
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike
>
>
>
> With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the
> opposite preference or opinion.
>
> However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.
>
>
>
> I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.
>
>
>
> I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like
> masks.
>
>
>
> I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.
>
> I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd
> person.
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Wow, what happened in Arizona?

From: Nate Burke 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 4:41 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

The Wife sent me this link today.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/26/this-chart-shows-the-link-between-restaurant-spending-and-new-coronavirus-cases.html

This is the whole causation/correlation question.  

On 6/26/2020 5:37 PM, Jaime Solorza wrote:

  Wear the mask...stop the spread...our state got worse and today Abbot, a 
lackey, closed bars againnever should have opened them...period  
  I have N95s and my really good one in case idiots around me don't wear them.

  On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 11:00 AM  wrote:

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the 
opposite preference or opinion.
However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  
I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd 
person.  
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Draftswoman.  Drafter.  GIS Technician.  Girl that is learning how to make 
staking sheets.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 5:05 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Trump is a her? Draft dodger ? Didn't know.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 1:29 PM  wrote:

  A mix of both.  One part time drafter always wears her mask so we 
reciprocate.  
  I don’t know how the health care folks do it.  

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:25 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside 
people?  Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each other?  
Although being outside probably increases the probability of shouting and, if 
you have allergies, sneezing.

  Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the tight-fitting 
N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day.  The ones 
that leave marks on your face.

  From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in a 
movie ever.  

  From: Bill Prince 

  Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

  To: af@af.afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

  That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit when I 
hear that.

bp On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if 
those are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal 
sneeze guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks 
with their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the 
Kars for Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way 
too much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with 
insulation or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of 
wearing a mask wore off long ago……

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the 
opposite preference or opinion.

However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  

I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd 
person.  

--

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  AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Drafter.  Sounds like a cyclist or a NASCAR driver.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 6:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Draftswoman.  Drafter.  GIS Technician.  Girl that is learning how to make 
staking sheets.  

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 5:05 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Trump is a her? Draft dodger ? Didn't know.

On Fri, Jun 26, 2020, 1:29 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

A mix of both.  One part time drafter always wears her mask so we reciprocate.  

I don’t know how the health care folks do it.  

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:25 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Chuck, are these business meetings with your own employees, or outside people?  
Can you hold the meetings outside and stay 6 feet from each other?  Although 
being outside probably increases the probability of shouting and, if you have 
allergies, sneezing.

Imagine being a nurse/doctor/dentist/etc and wearing one of the tight-fitting 
N95 masks (plus probably goggles) for a 12 hour shift, day after day.  The ones 
that leave marks on your face.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

Indian love song.  Splat.  That was one of the all time funniest scenes in a 
movie ever.  

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:45 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

That and "It's a Small World". Gawd, I want to run into a hot lava pit when I 
hear that.

bp

On 6/26/2020 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I’ve occasionally seen people wearing clear face shields.  Not sure if those 
are effective and/or allowed instead of masks.  Kind of like a personal sneeze 
guard.  Now I’m having a mental picture of the aliens in Mars Attacks with 
their heads exploding inside their space helmets.  Whenever I hear the Kars for 
Kids song I feel like my head is going to explode.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of David Coudron
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 12:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

You can officially count me among the haters of wearing masks.   Did it way too 
much as a kid on the farm when working in dusty environments or with insulation 
or other items you didn’t want to breathe in.   The novelty of wearing a mask 
wore off long ago……

Regards,

David Coudron

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Friday, June 26, 2020 11:59 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Unifying dislike

With almost every thought or opinion there will be someone with the opposite 
preference or opinion.

However, one particular feeling might be universally held amongst humans.

I am finding I really hate wearing masks during business meetings.  

I will do it until the virus is no longer a factor, but I do not like masks.

I do not like to wear a mask over my mouth and nose.  

I am sure someone somewhere would say they do, but that would be an odd person. 

  _  

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[AFMUG] pachangas?