[AFMUG] OT: Indiana Tax Prep Question

[Nate Burke]

I have an elderly relative in NW Indiana.  She was taking her taxes to 
volunteers at the United Way to get prepared.  Due to COVID they are not 
doing that this year, they say to go to a website for filing taxes.  She 
does not have access to the Internet.  Do any people in Indiana know of 
any similar programs that are available this year for elderly tax 
preparation?


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] OT nice guy

[chuck]

A fiber contractor, to whom I had awarded at least a million or perhaps as much 
as $2M worth of work to in the past 7 years had one of his guys stop by my work 
crew and try to hire them.  They offered “more than what Chuck is paying you” 
without knowing what Chuck is paying.  

Nice guy.  I told the crew (one jumped ship immediately) they should do what is 
right for them and their family.  I can always hire and train more.  

But the personal cheap shot nature of this act was curious.  People are 
puzzling.  I would never do that in such an overt manner.  
I did have a couple of his former employees on my crew.  He had let them go and 
I picked them up.  -- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT nice guy

[Mark Radabaugh]

I have seen plenty of contracts with ‘anti-poaching’ clauses in them.   How 
enforceable they are is beyond my pay grade.

And no - I generally won’t consider hiring someone from a contractor or 
competitor unless the employee approaches me first.   Even then I’m going to 
tell them that they need to go discuss it with the current employer first.

Mark

> On Jun 22, 2020, at 10:58 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> A fiber contractor, to whom I had awarded at least a million or perhaps as 
> much as $2M worth of work to in the past 7 years had one of his guys stop by 
> my work crew and try to hire them.  They offered “more than what Chuck is 
> paying you” without knowing what Chuck is paying. 
>  
> Nice guy.  I told the crew (one jumped ship immediately) they should do what 
> is right for them and their family.  I can always hire and train more. 
>  
> But the personal cheap shot nature of this act was curious.  People are 
> puzzling.  I would never do that in such an overt manner.  
> I did have a couple of his former employees on my crew.  He had let them go 
> and I picked them up. 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT nice guy

[Adam Moffett]

Everyone has a different threshold for these ethical dilemmas. If it was 
about lying we'd find someone who thinks overt lies are ok if they're 
useful or expedient, and someone who can't tolerate any untruth at all, 
and a lot of people in the middle who can justify prevarication and 
equivocation in the right circumstances (like probably everyone in 
marketing).


Personally, I'd say actively soliciting employees of your customer is 
over the line, but bviously this contractor sees it differently.  With a 
customer or vendor you have to maintain relations so you can keep doing 
business.  With a customer or vendor I'd be wary of even having that 
type of conversation with their employees at all, regardless of who 
initiated it.  Maybe you're a small enough customer that he can afford 
to lose you?


With a competitor it might be different.  Good people are a competitive 
advantage.  I wouldn't actively recruit from them, but I'd /certainly 
/talk to the employee if they came to me. Some people might actively 
recruit from competitors, and even if that makes me uncomfortable I can 
understand why people would make that choice.


With companies in the same business but different markets they're 
completely fair game.  The fact that people have posted jobs on this 
mailing list is evidence that other people would agree with that.  If 
there was an ISP two counties over and I liked one of their employees 
I'd say "hey, if you get tired of these guys then reach out to us".



On 6/22/2020 10:58 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
A fiber contractor, to whom I had awarded at least a million or 
perhaps as much as $2M worth of work to in the past 7 years had one of 
his guys stop by my work crew and try to hire them.  They offered 
“more than what Chuck is paying you” without knowing what Chuck is 
paying.
Nice guy.  I told the crew (one jumped ship immediately) they should 
do what is right for them and their family.  I can always hire and 
train more.
But the personal cheap shot nature of this act was curious.  People 
are puzzling.  I would never do that in such an overt manner.
I did have a couple of his former employees on my crew.  He had let 
them go and I picked them up.


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT nice guy

[Ken Hohhof]

Sounds like a scene from that movie with the quote “I drink your milkshake”.  
Is fiber contracting the new wild west?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT nice guy

 

I have seen plenty of contracts with ‘anti-poaching’ clauses in them.   How 
enforceable they are is beyond my pay grade.

 

And no - I generally won’t consider hiring someone from a contractor or 
competitor unless the employee approaches me first.   Even then I’m going to 
tell them that they need to go discuss it with the current employer first.

 

Mark





On Jun 22, 2020, at 10:58 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

 

A fiber contractor, to whom I had awarded at least a million or perhaps as much 
as $2M worth of work to in the past 7 years had one of his guys stop by my work 
crew and try to hire them.  They offered “more than what Chuck is paying you” 
without knowing what Chuck is paying.  

 

Nice guy.  I told the crew (one jumped ship immediately) they should do what is 
right for them and their family.  I can always hire and train more.  

 

But the personal cheap shot nature of this act was curious.  People are 
puzzling.  I would never do that in such an overt manner.  
I did have a couple of his former employees on my crew.  He had let them go and 
I picked them up.  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT nice guy

[Bill Prince]

  
  
The tech industry in Silicon Valley was rife with that all
  through the 70s, 80s, and 90s. It's still somewhat rampant. About
  every 2 to 4 weeks, I would get a call from a head hunter offering
  me 25% more than I was currently making. I took a couple of those;
  spaced out 2-5 years. At that point, I found working for a good
  company was a reward in itself. I still made good advancements in
  pay grade, but maybe at longer intervals. The contracts I signed
  had anti-compete clauses in them, but those have been ruled as not
  enforceable for the most part.


bp



On 6/22/2020 7:58 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  A fiber contractor, to whom I had awarded at least a
million or perhaps as much as $2M worth of work to in the
past 7 years had one of his guys stop by my work crew and
try to hire them.  They offered “more than what Chuck is
paying you” without knowing what Chuck is paying.  
   
  Nice guy.  I told the crew (one jumped ship immediately)
they should do what is right for them and their family.  I
can always hire and train more.  
   
  But the personal cheap shot nature of this act was
curious.  People are puzzling.  I would never do that in
such an overt manner.  
I did have a couple of his former employees on my crew.  He
had let them go and I picked them up.  

  
  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Darin Steffl]

Hey guys,

We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with no
signs of damage.

When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs
of physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit
back a portion of it but never all of it.

Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like
lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a
power surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and
electronics. Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your
phone if it dies.

Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them
free hardware?

What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for
damage that we didn't cause?

-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]]

We cover everything up to their router at no cost to the customer.  Acts of God 
are our responsibility.


Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Darin Steffl
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

Hey guys,

We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with no 
signs of damage.

When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs of 
physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit back a 
portion of it but never all of it.

Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like 
lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a power 
surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and electronics. 
Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your phone if it dies.

Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them free 
hardware?

What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for damage 
that we didn't cause?

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
[http://www.snoitulosten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/facebook-small.jpg]
 Like us on Facebook
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Lewis Bergman]

We did it the same way as Jim when we were in that business. We built
enough into the price to provide the service. They expect it, it is easier
to just charge them for it and give them what they expect.

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:38 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
wrote:

> We cover everything up to their router at no cost to the customer.  Acts
> of God are our responsibility.
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-999-7000
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of * Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Monday, June 22, 2020 10:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear
>
>
>
> Hey guys,
>
>
>
> We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with
> no signs of damage.
>
>
>
> When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs
> of physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit
> back a portion of it but never all of it.
>
>
>
> Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like
> lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a
> power surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and
> electronics. Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your
> phone if it dies.
>
>
>
> Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them
> free hardware?
>
>
>
> What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for
> damage that we didn't cause?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Darin Steffl
>
> Minnesota WiFi
>
> www.mnwifi.com
>
> 507-634-WiFi
>
>  Like us on Facebook
> 
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Adam Moffett]

I worked for two companies that had opposite positions on this topic.

IMO It is easier for everyone to just cover it.  The cost of replacing a 
certain number of CPE needs to be built in.  And maybe this part is off 
topic, but you should also build in the cost of upgrading the CPE in 5 
years (or less).


At the company that charged for repairs there was always conflict with 
the customer over it, and it caused stress and resentment among 
customers and staff.  I never understood their justifications for it.  
The same company tried to charge for upgrading CPE.  The result was 
upgrades WE needed to improve OUR capacity didn't happen because some of 
the customers would decline to pay for it.


The only time I would support charging for repairs is if the customer 
was negligent in some way.


Of course, If you're talking about customer owned equipment then it's a 
whole different ball game.




On 6/22/2020 11:41 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
We did it the same way as Jim when we were in that business. We built 
enough into the price to provide the service. They expect it, it is 
easier to just charge them for it and give them what they expect.


On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:38 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:


We cover everything up to their router at no cost to the
customer.  Acts of God are our responsibility.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com 

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Darin Steffl
*Sent:* Monday, June 22, 2020 10:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

Hey guys,

We typically perform free service calls when we find defective
gear with no signs of damage.

When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or
other signs of physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware
and sometimes credit back a portion of it but never all of it.

Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of
God like lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at
all. If there's a power surge, the power utility won't pay to
replace your appliances and electronics. Paying your Verizon bill
doesn't get them to replace your phone if it dies.

Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give
them free hardware?

What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing
for damage that we didn't cause?

-- 


Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi

www.mnwifi.com 

507-634-WiFi

 Like us on Facebook


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[dave]

We bill for acts of God but we also see what it takes to prevent such 
again. From our side we will add an indoor inline sure suppressor.

9x out of 10 that is the resolve.
 If it continues to be an issue we do what we can to relocate 
subscriber unit to get away from the A lightning zones on a building and 
get as close to the B Zones.

Where A is a direct for potential discharge and B is more nominal.

This with a little surge suppression goes a long ways in this business.



On 6/22/20 10:41 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
We did it the same way as Jim when we were in that business. We built 
enough into the price to provide the service. They expect it, it is 
easier to just charge them for it and give them what they expect.


On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:38 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:


We cover everything up to their router at no cost to the
customer.  Acts of God are our responsibility.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com 

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of * Darin Steffl
*Sent:* Monday, June 22, 2020 10:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

Hey guys,

We typically perform free service calls when we find defective
gear with no signs of damage.

When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or
other signs of physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware
and sometimes credit back a portion of it but never all of it.

Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of
God like lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at
all. If there's a power surge, the power utility won't pay to
replace your appliances and electronics. Paying your Verizon bill
doesn't get them to replace your phone if it dies.

Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give
them free hardware?

What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing
for damage that we didn't cause?

-- 


Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi

www.mnwifi.com 

507-634-WiFi

 Like us on Facebook


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



--
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT nice guy

[chuck]

That has my favorite murder scene at the end.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 9:22 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT nice guy

Sounds like a scene from that movie with the quote “I drink your milkshake”.  
Is fiber contracting the new wild west?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:06 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT nice guy

 

I have seen plenty of contracts with ‘anti-poaching’ clauses in them.   How 
enforceable they are is beyond my pay grade.

 

And no - I generally won’t consider hiring someone from a contractor or 
competitor unless the employee approaches me first.   Even then I’m going to 
tell them that they need to go discuss it with the current employer first.

 

Mark





  On Jun 22, 2020, at 10:58 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

   

  A fiber contractor, to whom I had awarded at least a million or perhaps as 
much as $2M worth of work to in the past 7 years had one of his guys stop by my 
work crew and try to hire them.  They offered “more than what Chuck is paying 
you” without knowing what Chuck is paying.  

   

  Nice guy.  I told the crew (one jumped ship immediately) they should do what 
is right for them and their family.  I can always hire and train more.  

   

  But the personal cheap shot nature of this act was curious.  People are 
puzzling.  I would never do that in such an overt manner.  
  I did have a couple of his former employees on my crew.  He had let them go 
and I picked them up.  

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[chuck]

Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing it up.
Put in florescent looking fixtures that are actually LED.
They flicker with the generator power.  

I am going to try to put caps on the output of the LED ballasts...
But what is the best way to stabilize the output of the generator?

I am going to put a scope on the output and see what it looks like.  
I turned on the air conditioner and the flickering reduced, so it is low load 
causing it.

But this is after an electronic LED driver which should regulate out the AC 
line issues I would thing.

Odd...-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[Bill Prince]

  
  
That sounds like the generator must have particularly ratty
  output? The constant current regulators on the input to the LEDs
  are supposed to filter that out. Maybe put an AC filter on the
  input to the light fixtures?


bp



On 6/22/2020 10:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing it up.
  Put in florescent looking fixtures that are actually LED.
  They flicker with the generator power.  
   
  I am going to try to put caps on the output of the LED
ballasts...
  But what is the best way to stabilize the output of the
generator?
   
  I am going to put a scope on the output and see what it
looks like.  
  I turned on the air conditioner and the flickering
reduced, so it is low load causing it.
   
  But this is after an electronic LED driver which should
regulate out the AC line issues I would thing.
   
  Odd...

  
  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[Ken Hohhof]

I'm going to assume this is NOT an inverter style generator?

Up to about 3 kVA that's all I buy, the price difference isn't that huge.

Not sure about the big ones like 10+ kVA.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 12:35 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

 

That sounds like the generator must have particularly ratty output? The
constant current regulators on the input to the LEDs are supposed to filter
that out. Maybe put an AC filter on the input to the light fixtures?

 

bp

 

On 6/22/2020 10:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing it up.

Put in florescent looking fixtures that are actually LED.

They flicker with the generator power.  

 

I am going to try to put caps on the output of the LED ballasts...

But what is the best way to stabilize the output of the generator?

 

I am going to put a scope on the output and see what it looks like.  

I turned on the air conditioner and the flickering reduced, so it is low
load causing it.

 

But this is after an electronic LED driver which should regulate out the AC
line issues I would thing.

 

Odd...





-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[Chris Fabien]

What kind of generator? Cheap one?
That seems like probably voltage fluctuation causing that.
If I were going to use a small generator I'd go for a honda 2000 or 3000
inverter generator, or one of the competing models. Very quiet, last
forever.
Chris


On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:36 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> That sounds like the generator must have particularly ratty output? The
> constant current regulators on the input to the LEDs are supposed to filter
> that out. Maybe put an AC filter on the input to the light fixtures?
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 6/22/2020 10:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing it up.
> Put in florescent looking fixtures that are actually LED.
> They flicker with the generator power.
>
> I am going to try to put caps on the output of the LED ballasts...
> But what is the best way to stabilize the output of the generator?
>
> I am going to put a scope on the output and see what it looks like.
> I turned on the air conditioner and the flickering reduced, so it is low
> load causing it.
>
> But this is after an electronic LED driver which should regulate out the
> AC line issues I would thing.
>
> Odd...
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Ken Hohhof]

Note that power companies will actually cover damage to appliances if they have 
a power surge.  Not sure how bad the surge has to be.  But I remember one time 
there was a cross from primary to secondary wires on the poles and it blew out 
a bunch of TVs, washing machines, well pumps, etc.  The power company paid 
claims.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of dave
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 11:08 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

 

We bill for acts of God but we also see what it takes to prevent such again. 
From our side we will add an indoor inline sure suppressor. 
9x out of 10 that is the resolve.  
 If it continues to be an issue we do what we can to relocate subscriber unit 
to get away from the A lightning zones on a building and get as close to the B 
Zones. 
Where A is a direct for potential discharge and B is more nominal. 

This with a little surge suppression goes a long ways in this business. 






On 6/22/20 10:41 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

We did it the same way as Jim when we were in that business. We built enough 
into the price to provide the service. They expect it, it is easier to just 
charge them for it and give them what they expect.

 

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:38 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com> > wrote:

We cover everything up to their router at no cost to the customer.  Acts of God 
are our responsibility.

 

 

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
  http://www.brazoswifi.com

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Darin Steffl
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

 

Hey guys,

 

We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with no 
signs of damage.

 

When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs of 
physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit back a 
portion of it but never all of it.

 

Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like 
lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a power 
surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and electronics. 
Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your phone if it dies.

 

Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them free 
hardware?

 

What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for damage 
that we didn't cause?

 

-- 

Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi

www.mnwifi.com  

507-634-WiFi

   Like us on Facebook 
 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




 

-- 

Lewis Bergman 

325-439-0533 Cell





 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Mark Radabaugh]

We just cover it at no charge.   The customer is paying us every month for a 
working service.   I would much rather give the customer a couple hundred 
dollars worth of equipment and keep them happy instead fo them signing up with 
a competitor who is running a free install promotion.

Costs too much to get a new customer.  I would rather keep the ones we have.

Mark

> On Jun 22, 2020, at 1:52 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> Note that power companies will actually cover damage to appliances if they 
> have a power surge.  Not sure how bad the surge has to be.  But I remember 
> one time there was a cross from primary to secondary wires on the poles and 
> it blew out a bunch of TVs, washing machines, well pumps, etc.  The power 
> company paid claims.
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf 
> Of dave
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 11:08 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear
>  
> We bill for acts of God but we also see what it takes to prevent such again. 
> From our side we will add an indoor inline sure suppressor. 
> 9x out of 10 that is the resolve.  
>  If it continues to be an issue we do what we can to relocate subscriber unit 
> to get away from the A lightning zones on a building and get as close to the 
> B Zones. 
> Where A is a direct for potential discharge and B is more nominal. 
> 
> This with a little surge suppression goes a long ways in this business. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/22/20 10:41 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>> We did it the same way as Jim when we were in that business. We built enough 
>> into the price to provide the service. They expect it, it is easier to just 
>> charge them for it and give them what they expect.
>>  
>> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:38 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] 
>> mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:
>>> We cover everything up to their router at no cost to the customer.  Acts of 
>>> God are our responsibility.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Jim Bouse
>>> Owner - Brazos WiFi
>>> 979-999-7000
>>> http://www.brazoswifi.com 
>>>  
>>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On 
>>> Behalf Of Darin Steffl
>>> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:34 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >> >
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear
>>>  
>>> Hey guys,
>>>  
>>> We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with no 
>>> signs of damage.
>>>  
>>> When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs 
>>> of physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit 
>>> back a portion of it but never all of it.
>>>  
>>> Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like 
>>> lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a 
>>> power surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and 
>>> electronics. Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your 
>>> phone if it dies.
>>>  
>>> Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them 
>>> free hardware?
>>>  
>>> What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for 
>>> damage that we didn't cause?
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> Darin Steffl
>>> Minnesota WiFi
>>> www.mnwifi.com 
>>> 507-634-WiFi
>>>   Like us on Facebook 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com 
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>>> 
>> 
>>  
>> -- 
>> Lewis Bergman 
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>> 
>> 
>  
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Adam Moffett]

Here's an argument I made against charging for repairs:

If our default position is to bill for repairs, then we have no 
incentive to do better work because we can get paid again every time we 
fix it.  We might even have a perverse incentive to do worse work.



--

Maybe lightning isn't our fault, but it's certainly not the customer's 
fault either.  And as Dave Milholen points out, you can mitigate the 
impact.  YOU can.  If anything the customer has less control over that 
than you did.


It might be the customer's fault if they hit Cat5 with a weed trimmer 
(and that's one I would bill for), but you could also install a 
U-channel or short piece of conduit to protect the cable where it's 
vulnerable to that.


It might be the customer's fault if their dog eats the wire, but why is 
the wire where the dog can get to it?  If really it has to be there, add 
a wiremold.  Even when billing for that repair, I'd file away that 
knowledge and apply it preemptively next time.  If we're charging for 
all of these things, then there's no reason for us to do it better.





On 6/22/2020 1:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Note that power companies will actually cover damage to appliances if 
they have a power surge.  Not sure how bad the surge has to be.  But I 
remember one time there was a cross from primary to secondary wires on 
the poles and it blew out a bunch of TVs, washing machines, well 
pumps, etc.  The power company paid claims.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *dave
*Sent:* Monday, June 22, 2020 11:08 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

We bill for acts of God but we also see what it takes to prevent such 
again. From our side we will add an indoor inline sure suppressor.

9x out of 10 that is the resolve.
 If it continues to be an issue we do what we can to relocate 
subscriber unit to get away from the A lightning zones on a building 
and get as close to the B Zones.

Where A is a direct for potential discharge and B is more nominal.

This with a little surge suppression goes a long ways in this business.


On 6/22/20 10:41 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

We did it the same way as Jim when we were in that business. We
built enough into the price to provide the service. They expect
it, it is easier to just charge them for it and give them what
they expect.

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:38 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]
mailto:j...@brazoswifi.com>> wrote:

We cover everything up to their router at no cost to the
customer.  Acts of God are our responsibility.

Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com 

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Darin Steffl
*Sent:* Monday, June 22, 2020 10:34 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

Hey guys,

We typically perform free service calls when we find defective
gear with no signs of damage.

When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or
other signs of physical damage, we always bill labor and
hardware and sometimes credit back a portion of it but never
all of it.

Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts
of God like lightning and power surges but I don't believe
that at all. If there's a power surge, the power utility won't
pay to replace your appliances and electronics. Paying your
Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your phone if it dies.

Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and
give them free hardware?

What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by
billing for damage that we didn't cause?

-- 


Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi

www.mnwifi.com 

507-634-WiFi

 Like us on Facebook


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 


Lewis Bergman

325-439-0533 Cell




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[chuck]

9 Kw
Cheap.
But it is a rotating generator, I would think windings rotating in a magnetic 
field would make a clean sine wave.
Going to have to put a scope on it.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 11:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

What kind of generator? Cheap one?  
That seems like probably voltage fluctuation causing that. 
If I were going to use a small generator I'd go for a honda 2000 or 3000 
inverter generator, or one of the competing models. Very quiet, last forever. 
Chris


On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:36 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

  That sounds like the generator must have particularly ratty output? The 
constant current regulators on the input to the LEDs are supposed to filter 
that out. Maybe put an AC filter on the input to the light fixtures?



bp


On 6/22/2020 10:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing it up.
Put in florescent looking fixtures that are actually LED.
They flicker with the generator power.  

I am going to try to put caps on the output of the LED ballasts...
But what is the best way to stabilize the output of the generator?

I am going to put a scope on the output and see what it looks like.  
I turned on the air conditioner and the flickering reduced, so it is low 
load causing it.

But this is after an electronic LED driver which should regulate out the AC 
line issues I would thing.

Odd...

 
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Cheap enough to not be brushless? Those brushes can really mess
  with a clean sine wave.

bp



On 6/22/2020 11:13 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  9 Kw
  Cheap.
  But it is a rotating generator, I would think windings
rotating in a magnetic field would make a clean sine wave.
  Going to have to put a scope on it.  
  

   
  
From: Chris
Fabien 
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 11:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer
  

 
  
  
What kind of generator? Cheap one? 
  That seems like probably voltage fluctuation causing
that. 
  If I were going to use a small generator I'd go for a
honda 2000 or 3000 inverter generator, or one of the
competing models. Very quiet, last forever. 
  Chris
   

 

  On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at
1:36 PM Bill Prince 
wrote:
  
  

  That sounds like the generator must have
particularly ratty output? The constant current
regulators on the input to the LEDs are supposed to
filter that out. Maybe put an AC filter on the input
to the light fixtures?
   
  bp



  On 6/22/2020 10:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
  
  

  
Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing
  it up.
Put in florescent looking fixtures that are
  actually LED.
They flicker with the generator power.  
 
I am going to try to put caps on the output
  of the LED ballasts...
But what is the best way to stabilize the
  output of the generator?
 
I am going to put a scope on the output and
  see what it looks like.  
I turned on the air conditioner and the
  flickering reduced, so it is low load causing
  it.
 
But this is after an electronic LED driver
  which should regulate out the AC line issues I
  would thing.
 
Odd...
  



  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
  

  
  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[chuck]

Cheap.  So probably has brushes.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 12:21 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

Cheap enough to not be brushless? Those brushes can really mess with a clean 
sine wave.


bp


On 6/22/2020 11:13 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  9 Kw
  Cheap.
  But it is a rotating generator, I would think windings rotating in a magnetic 
field would make a clean sine wave.
  Going to have to put a scope on it.  

  From: Chris Fabien 
  Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 11:49 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

  What kind of generator? Cheap one?  
  That seems like probably voltage fluctuation causing that. 
  If I were going to use a small generator I'd go for a honda 2000 or 3000 
inverter generator, or one of the competing models. Very quiet, last forever. 
  Chris


  On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:36 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

That sounds like the generator must have particularly ratty output? The 
constant current regulators on the input to the LEDs are supposed to filter 
that out. Maybe put an AC filter on the input to the light fixtures?



bp


On 6/22/2020 10:25 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing it up.
  Put in florescent looking fixtures that are actually LED.
  They flicker with the generator power.  

  I am going to try to put caps on the output of the LED ballasts...
  But what is the best way to stabilize the output of the generator?

  I am going to put a scope on the output and see what it looks like.  
  I turned on the air conditioner and the flickering reduced, so it is low 
load causing it.

  But this is after an electronic LED driver which should regulate out the 
AC line issues I would thing.

  Odd...

   
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


--
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


   



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Mathew Howard]

I completely agree. If the customer did something stupid and damaged it,
then they should pay for it. Otherwise, just fix it and be done with it...
you aren't really doing it for free... the price of the service should have
the cost of that kind of thing built in. I suppose it's a bit different if
you're one of those companies that makes the customer buy the CPE, but that
just seems like an all around bad idea to me, because even if you ignore
repairs, you're still going to have to deal with upgrades at some point,
and the customer's aren't going to want to pay to replace something that's
working perfectly fine from their point of view.

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:09 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Here's an argument I made against charging for repairs:
>
> If our default position is to bill for repairs, then we have no incentive
> to do better work because we can get paid again every time we fix it.  We
> might even have a perverse incentive to do worse work.
>
>
> --
>
> Maybe lightning isn't our fault, but it's certainly not the customer's
> fault either.  And as Dave Milholen points out, you can mitigate the
> impact.  YOU can.  If anything the customer has less control over that than
> you did.
>
> It might be the customer's fault if they hit Cat5 with a weed trimmer (and
> that's one I would bill for), but you could also install a U-channel or
> short piece of conduit to protect the cable where it's vulnerable to that.
>
> It might be the customer's fault if their dog eats the wire, but why is
> the wire where the dog can get to it?  If really it has to be there, add a
> wiremold.  Even when billing for that repair, I'd file away that knowledge
> and apply it preemptively next time.  If we're charging for all of these
> things, then there's no reason for us to do it better.
>
> 
>
>
> On 6/22/2020 1:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> Note that power companies will actually cover damage to appliances if they
> have a power surge.  Not sure how bad the surge has to be.  But I remember
> one time there was a cross from primary to secondary wires on the poles and
> it blew out a bunch of TVs, washing machines, well pumps, etc.  The power
> company paid claims.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *dave
> *Sent:* Monday, June 22, 2020 11:08 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear
>
>
>
> We bill for acts of God but we also see what it takes to prevent such
> again. From our side we will add an indoor inline sure suppressor.
> 9x out of 10 that is the resolve.
>  If it continues to be an issue we do what we can to relocate subscriber
> unit to get away from the A lightning zones on a building and get as close
> to the B Zones.
> Where A is a direct for potential discharge and B is more nominal.
>
> This with a little surge suppression goes a long ways in this business.
>
>
> On 6/22/20 10:41 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> We did it the same way as Jim when we were in that business. We built
> enough into the price to provide the service. They expect it, it is easier
> to just charge them for it and give them what they expect.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:38 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi] <
> j...@brazoswifi.com> wrote:
>
> We cover everything up to their router at no cost to the customer.  Acts
> of God are our responsibility.
>
>
>
>
>
> Jim Bouse
> Owner - Brazos WiFi
> 979-999-7000
> http://www.brazoswifi.com
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Darin Steffl
> *Sent:* Monday, June 22, 2020 10:34 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear
>
>
>
> Hey guys,
>
>
>
> We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with
> no signs of damage.
>
>
>
> When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs
> of physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit
> back a portion of it but never all of it.
>
>
>
> Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like
> lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a
> power surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and
> electronics. Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your
> phone if it dies.
>
>
>
> Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them
> free hardware?
>
>
>
> What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for
> damage that we didn't cause?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Darin Steffl
>
> Minnesota WiFi
>
> www.mnwifi.com
>
> 507-634-WiFi
>
>  Like us on Facebook
> 
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Jaime Solorza]

Funny how some folks only believe in God after it affects them some
way...we bill for any SCADA equipment damaged by lightning or surges along
with labor
We follow best practices as far as protection but some of the wiring that
is inside enclosure is not under our scope of responsibility...

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 9:35 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:

> Hey guys,
>
> We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with
> no signs of damage.
>
> When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs
> of physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit
> back a portion of it but never all of it.
>
> Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like
> lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a
> power surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and
> electronics. Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your
> phone if it dies.
>
> Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them
> free hardware?
>
> What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for
> damage that we didn't cause?
>
> --
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com
> 507-634-WiFi
>  Like us on Facebook
> 
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Bill Prince]

  
  
God had nothing to do with it. It had to be Zeus. Oh, wait. He's
  the god of lightning. Never mind. As you were.

bp



On 6/22/2020 12:45 PM, Jaime Solorza
  wrote:


  
  Funny how some folks only believe in God after it
affects them some way...we bill for any SCADA equipment damaged
by lightning or surges along with labor 
We follow best practices as far as protection
  but some of the wiring that is inside enclosure is not under
  our scope of responsibility...
  
  
  
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 9:35 AM
  Darin Steffl 
  wrote:


  Hey guys,


We typically perform free service calls when we find
  defective gear with no signs of damage.


When we see lightning damage with black ethernet
  connectors or other signs of physical damage, we always
  bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit back a
  portion of it but never all of it.


Many customers think that their monthly bill should
  cover acts of God like lightning and power surges but I
  don't believe that at all. If there's a power surge, the
  power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and
  electronics. Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to
  replace your phone if it dies.


Why do customers think we will come out and work for
  free and give them free hardware?


What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy
  by billing for damage that we didn't cause?

  
  
  -- 
  
Darin Steffl
  Minnesota WiFi
  www.mnwifi.com
  507-634-WiFi
   Like us on Facebook

  

  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  
  
  

  


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[Josh Luthman]

We just said screw it and did 12vdc (12v LED, battery) charge the battery
via trailer cable.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:26 PM  wrote:

> Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing it up.
> Put in florescent looking fixtures that are actually LED.
> They flicker with the generator power.
>
> I am going to try to put caps on the output of the LED ballasts...
> But what is the best way to stabilize the output of the generator?
>
> I am going to put a scope on the output and see what it looks like.
> I turned on the air conditioner and the flickering reduced, so it is low
> load causing it.
>
> But this is after an electronic LED driver which should regulate out the
> AC line issues I would thing.
>
> Odd...
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Mark - Myakka Technologies]

Title: Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear


We have come full circle over the years.  

Started out with customer pays for damaged equipment due to lightning/surges/etc.  Quickly found out no one reads the contract they signed and the arguing about it wasn't worth it.

Moved on to an optional $5/month replacement fee.  That worked fine for the people that were paying the $5.  But still had a handful that claimed they never got the e-mail or read the contract and didn't know about it. Or they asked to be signed up months ago and we never did it.

Now that we are on fiber the lightning issues are not as bad as the wireless was.  Now we just replace/fix the equipment as long as it doesn't become a regular issue.  If it starts becoming a regular issue we try to figure out what the issue is and fix it. 


--
Best regards,
 Mark                            mailto:m...@mailmt.com

Myakka Technologies, Inc.
www.Myakka.com

--

Monday, June 22, 2020, 2:08:19 PM, you wrote:





Here's an argument I made against charging for repairs:
If our default position is to bill for repairs, then we have no incentive to do better work because we can get paid again every time we fix it.  We might even have a perverse incentive to do worse work.

--
Maybe lightning isn't our fault, but it's certainly not the customer's fault either.  And as Dave Milholen points out, you can mitigate the impact.  YOU can.  If anything the customer has less control over that than you did.
It might be the customer's fault if they hit Cat5 with a weed trimmer (and that's one I would bill for), but you could also install a U-channel or short piece of conduit to protect the cable where it's vulnerable to that.  
It might be the customer's fault if their dog eats the wire, but why is the wire where the dog can get to it?  If really it has to be there, add a wiremold.  Even when billing for that repair, I'd file away that knowledge and apply it preemptively next time.  If we're charging for all of these things, then there's no reason for us to do it better.


On 6/22/2020 1:52 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:











Note that power companies will actually cover damage to appliances if they have a power surge.  Not sure how bad the surge has to be.  But I remember one time there was a cross from primary to secondary wires on the poles and it blew out a bunch of TVs, washing machines, well pumps, etc.  The power company paid claims.
 
From: AF  On Behalf Of dave
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 11:08 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear
 
We bill for acts of God but we also see what it takes to prevent such again. From our side we will add an indoor inline sure suppressor. 
9x out of 10 that is the resolve.  
 If it continues to be an issue we do what we can to relocate subscriber unit to get away from the A lightning zones on a building and get as close to the B Zones. 
Where A is a direct for potential discharge and B is more nominal. 

This with a little surge suppression goes a long ways in this business. 




On 6/22/20 10:41 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:




We did it the same way as Jim when we were in that business. We built enough into the price to provide the service. They expect it, it is easier to just charge them for it and give them what they expect.
 
On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 10:38 AM Jim Bouse [Brazos WiFi]  wrote:




We cover everything up to their router at no cost to the customer.  Acts of God are our responsibility.
 
 
Jim Bouse
Owner - Brazos WiFi
979-999-7000
http://www.brazoswifi.com
 
From: AF  On Behalf Of Darin Steffl
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:34 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear
 
Hey guys,
 
We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with no signs of damage.
 
When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs of physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit back a portion of it but never all of it.
 
Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a power surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and electronics. Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your phone if it dies.
 
Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them free hardware?
 
What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for damage that we didn't cause?
 
-- 
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
 Like us on Facebook
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



 
-- 
Lewis Bergman 
325-439-0533 Cell




 -- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[Mark Radabaugh]

Jamie,

You are in a different business though - you don’t get recurring income from 
your work (at least I don’t think you do).   No way I would cover it for free 
on a contract job.

Mark

> On Jun 22, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:
> 
> Funny how some folks only believe in God after it affects them some way...we 
> bill for any SCADA equipment damaged by lightning or surges along with labor 
> We follow best practices as far as protection but some of the wiring that is 
> inside enclosure is not under our scope of responsibility...
> 
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 9:35 AM Darin Steffl  > wrote:
> Hey guys,
> 
> We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with no 
> signs of damage.
> 
> When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs of 
> physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit back 
> a portion of it but never all of it.
> 
> Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like 
> lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a 
> power surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and 
> electronics. Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your phone 
> if it dies.
> 
> Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them free 
> hardware?
> 
> What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for damage 
> that we didn't cause?
> 
> -- 
> Darin Steffl
> Minnesota WiFi
> www.mnwifi.com 
> 507-634-WiFi
>   Like us on Facebook 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[James Howard]

Jaimie can just cover it from the ah-hem “protection” dues his customers just 
happen to hand over in their monthly envelope I’m sure.   lol

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 3:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

Jamie,

You are in a different business though - you don’t get recurring income from 
your work (at least I don’t think you do).   No way I would cover it for free 
on a contract job.

Mark


On Jun 22, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Funny how some folks only believe in God after it affects them some way...we 
bill for any SCADA equipment damaged by lightning or surges along with labor
We follow best practices as far as protection but some of the wiring that is 
inside enclosure is not under our scope of responsibility...

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 9:35 AM Darin Steffl 
mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
Hey guys,

We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with no 
signs of damage.

When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs of 
physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit back a 
portion of it but never all of it.

Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like 
lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a power 
surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and electronics. 
Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your phone if it dies.

Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them free 
hardware?

What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for damage 
that we didn't cause?

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
[http://www.snoitulosten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/facebook-small.jpg]
 Like us on Facebook
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


Total Control Panel

Login


To: 
ja...@litewire.net

From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com





You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[chuck]

Sounds like a Steve Jones quality assurance program.

From: James Howard 
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 2:16 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

Jaimie can just cover it from the ah-hem “protection” dues his customers just 
happen to hand over in their monthly envelope I’m sure.   lol

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 3:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

 

Jamie,

 

You are in a different business though - you don’t get recurring income from 
your work (at least I don’t think you do).   No way I would cover it for free 
on a contract job.

 

Mark





  On Jun 22, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:

   

  Funny how some folks only believe in God after it affects them some way...we 
bill for any SCADA equipment damaged by lightning or surges along with labor 

  We follow best practices as far as protection but some of the wiring that is 
inside enclosure is not under our scope of responsibility...

   

  On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 9:35 AM Darin Steffl  wrote:

Hey guys,

 

We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with no 
signs of damage.

 

When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs 
of physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit back 
a portion of it but never all of it.

 

Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like 
lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a power 
surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and electronics. 
Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your phone if it dies.

 

Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them 
free hardware?

 

What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for 
damage that we didn't cause?

 

-- 

Darin Steffl

Minnesota WiFi

www.mnwifi.com

507-634-WiFi

 Like us on Facebook

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 




Total Control Panel
   Login
   
 
  To: ja...@litewire.net
 
  From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
 

   
 
You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your 
allow list.
   
 

 




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

[James Howard]

Well Steve probably picks up the envelopes.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 3:32 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

Sounds like a Steve Jones quality assurance program.

From: James Howard
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 2:16 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

Jaimie can just cover it from the ah-hem “protection” dues his customers just 
happen to hand over in their monthly envelope I’m sure.   lol

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mark Radabaugh
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 3:12 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Lightning/Grid Damage to Gear

Jamie,

You are in a different business though - you don’t get recurring income from 
your work (at least I don’t think you do).   No way I would cover it for free 
on a contract job.

Mark

On Jun 22, 2020, at 3:45 PM, Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Funny how some folks only believe in God after it affects them some way...we 
bill for any SCADA equipment damaged by lightning or surges along with labor
We follow best practices as far as protection but some of the wiring that is 
inside enclosure is not under our scope of responsibility...

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 9:35 AM Darin Steffl 
mailto:darin.ste...@mnwifi.com>> wrote:
Hey guys,

We typically perform free service calls when we find defective gear with no 
signs of damage.

When we see lightning damage with black ethernet connectors or other signs of 
physical damage, we always bill labor and hardware and sometimes credit back a 
portion of it but never all of it.

Many customers think that their monthly bill should cover acts of God like 
lightning and power surges but I don't believe that at all. If there's a power 
surge, the power utility won't pay to replace your appliances and electronics. 
Paying your Verizon bill doesn't get them to replace your phone if it dies.

Why do customers think we will come out and work for free and give them free 
hardware?

What do you guys do just so I know I'm not being crazy by billing for damage 
that we didn't cause?

--
Darin Steffl
Minnesota WiFi
www.mnwifi.com
507-634-WiFi
[http://www.snoitulosten.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/facebook-small.jpg]
 Like us on Facebook
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


Total Control Panel

Login


To: 
ja...@litewire.net

From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com





You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Total Control Panel

Login


To: 
ja...@litewire.net

From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com





You received this message because the domain afmug.com is on your allow list.



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[Chris Fabien]

It will probably look like a clean sine wave but there is a control loop in
the voltage regulator that adjusts the field voltage to generate the
correct output voltage. That loop has some instability under zero load,
that's what it sounds like to me anyway.

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 3:57 PM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> We just said screw it and did 12vdc (12v LED, battery) charge the battery
> via trailer cable.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:26 PM  wrote:
>
>> Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing it up.
>> Put in florescent looking fixtures that are actually LED.
>> They flicker with the generator power.
>>
>> I am going to try to put caps on the output of the LED ballasts...
>> But what is the best way to stabilize the output of the generator?
>>
>> I am going to put a scope on the output and see what it looks like.
>> I turned on the air conditioner and the flickering reduced, so it is low
>> load causing it.
>>
>> But this is after an electronic LED driver which should regulate out the
>> AC line issues I would thing.
>>
>> Odd...
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

[chuck]

Still some flicker at about 30% load.  

From: Chris Fabien 
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 2:55 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT generator stabilizer

It will probably look like a clean sine wave but there is a control loop in the 
voltage regulator that adjusts the field voltage to generate the correct output 
voltage. That loop has some instability under zero load, that's what it sounds 
like to me anyway. 

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 3:57 PM Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  We just said screw it and did 12vdc (12v LED, battery) charge the battery via 
trailer cable.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 1:26 PM  wrote:

Brand new splicing trailer.  Just finishing it up.
Put in florescent looking fixtures that are actually LED.
They flicker with the generator power.  

I am going to try to put caps on the output of the LED ballasts...
But what is the best way to stabilize the output of the generator?

I am going to put a scope on the output and see what it looks like.  
I turned on the air conditioner and the flickering reduced, so it is low 
load causing it.

But this is after an electronic LED driver which should regulate out the AC 
line issues I would thing.

Odd...
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] OT flicker

[Chuck McCown]

Little loading
I don’t see the problem.



Sent from my iPhone-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

[chuck]

MOS?

From: Peter Kranz via AF 
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 4:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

They also have a slightly different version using 80V MOS that supports 48V 
configurations.. attached.

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 9:09 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

Found this vendor.. pricing seems too good to be true. Not sure why they have 
the 2 units in series limitation however, that kinda blows the 48V solution. 
Going to order a couple samples for testing.

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 11:59 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

Did you order via Alibaba? What did you end up paying for them?

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Harold Bledsoe
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 7:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

Not an answer to your question but FWIW I got some 12V/100AH batteries from 
Meritsun to use in a golf cart and those have worked very well so far.  These 
are wired in series to do 48V that the golf cart needs.

 

From: AF  on behalf of TJ Trout 
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Date: Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 6:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

If anyone is using the lifepo4 rack mount batteries could you comment on which 
capacity you went with?

 

I'm trying to figure out which capacity is the best form factor in terms of 
weight size etc. 

 

Strange that the 200ah unit is marginally larger but twice the weight. The 
100ah unit just be partially empty inside. 

 

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 8:40 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Ferric Chloride kills the coronavirus.

   

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 9:57 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

   

  My bare pcb provider got the go ahead to restart production Monday.

  Sent from my iPhone

   

On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:54 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:

Shit, the other thing is when will China be a viable supplier again? Anyone 
seeing shipments from China? We use 3 chinese suppliers and they are MIA, 
wondering when things will become normal again?

 

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:57 PM Peter Kranz  wrote:

  Correct.. 
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Lifepo4-Batterie-Lithium-48V-Lifepo4-Lipo_62343352866.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.9.61a95ffebuB5z3

   

  Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
  Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
  Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

   

  From: TJ Trout  
  Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:36 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Cc: Peter Kranz 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

   

  Peter, so just over 1k$ for 100ah@48vdc?

   

  On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:08 PM Peter Kranz via AF  
wrote:

Second calc is wrong:

 

The equivalent LiFePO4 new unit:

 

1x MeritSun LFP100-48 Units = $1100 (138 lbs) 

@100% DOD = 4800Wh of storage in a package 16”deep and 8.7” high or 
$.22/Wh

 

So its actually half the price of my Deka solution per Wh.

 

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 2:28 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Cc: Peter Kranz 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

Chuck, something you may want to consider in your calculations is that 
I am comfortable taking LiFePO4 batteries to 100% DOD, whereas I never go below 
50% DOD for my AGM backup systems. I guess one could make a case that I’m not 
cycling my AGM systems very much, so I shouldn’t care about the huge cycle life 
penalties of 100% DOD in which case your spreadsheet is still valid.

 

But assuming we go with the 50% DOD argument, I can fit 4x170Ah AGMs in 
the bottom of my racks:

 

4x Deka 170Ah 12AVR1700-ET @ $495 = $1980 (120 lbs x 4 = 480 lbs)

@50% DOD = 4080Wh of storage in a package 22” deep and 12.6” high or 
$.48/

Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

[Peter Kranz via AF]

I assume it references the mosfets in the BMS.

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
  pkr...@unwiredltd.com

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 3:59 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

MOS?

 

From: Peter Kranz via AF 

Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 4:46 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Cc: Peter Kranz 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

They also have a slightly different version using 80V MOS that supports 48V 
configurations.. attached.

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2020 9:09 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: Peter Kranz mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

Found this vendor.. pricing seems too good to be true. Not sure why they have 
the 2 units in series limitation however, that kinda blows the 48V solution. 
Going to order a couple samples for testing.

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Peter Kranz via AF
Sent: Wednesday, June 17, 2020 11:59 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Cc: Peter Kranz mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

Did you order via Alibaba? What did you end up paying for them?

 

Peter Kranz
  www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Harold Bledsoe
Sent: Monday, June 15, 2020 7:36 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

Not an answer to your question but FWIW I got some 12V/100AH batteries from 
Meritsun to use in a golf cart and those have worked very well so far.  These 
are wired in series to do 48V that the golf cart needs.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > on behalf 
of TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> >
Reply-To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Date: Saturday, June 13, 2020 at 6:28 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

If anyone is using the lifepo4 rack mount batteries could you comment on which 
capacity you went with?

 

I'm trying to figure out which capacity is the best form factor in terms of 
weight size etc. 

 

Strange that the 200ah unit is marginally larger but twice the weight. The 
100ah unit just be partially empty inside. 

 

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020, 8:40 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Ferric Chloride kills the coronavirus.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 9:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Alibaba LiFePO4 48V 200Ah battery packs?

 

My bare pcb provider got the go ahead to restart production Monday.

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Feb 19, 2020, at 7:54 PM, TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> 
> wrote:

Shit, the other thing is when will China be a viable supplier again? Anyone 
seeing shipments from China? We use 3 chinese suppliers and they are MIA, 
wondering when things will become normal again?

 

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 5:57 PM Peter Kranz mailto:pkr...@unwiredltd.com> > wrote:

Correct.. 
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Lifepo4-Batterie-Lithium-48V-Lifepo4-Lipo_62343352866.html?spm=a2700.details.deiletai6.9.61a95ffebuB5z3
 

 

 

Peter Kranz
 

 www.UnwiredLtd.com
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com  

 

From: TJ Trout mailto:t...@voltbb.com> > 
Sent: Wednesday

Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

[Ken Hohhof]

Are they definitely flickering?  Or is it some kind of strobe effect because of 
the frequency not being exactly 60 Hz off the generator but you have something 
else like a fluorescent or a computer screen that is synced to commercial power 
at 60 Hz?

I don't really know what I'm implying, just stabbing in the dark.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:51 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT flicker

Little loading
I don’t see the problem.




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

[Bill Prince]

You're maybe thinking of the beat between the two? If one is running at 
60 Hz, and the other is running at 90 Hz, the beat would be 30 Hz (90-60).


bp


On 6/22/2020 4:28 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Are they definitely flickering?  Or is it some kind of strobe effect because of 
the frequency not being exactly 60 Hz off the generator but you have something 
else like a fluorescent or a computer screen that is synced to commercial power 
at 60 Hz?

I don't really know what I'm implying, just stabbing in the dark.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:51 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT flicker

Little loading
I don’t see the problem.






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

[AFMUG] VPN?

[Ken Hohhof]

What does it mean if 100% of a customer's traffic is UDP between high
numbered ports?  Does this mean they have configured a VPN service using
their router?  If so, would you still troubleshoot any weird complaints of
Internet performance, or make them turn it off first?

 

Or does this mean something different that I'm not thinking of?

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

[chuck]

It seems to be a random flicker.
The output of the LED driver says it is supposed to be 30 volts.  It is 
measured at a slightly dirty 27 volts.


-Original Message- 
From: Ken Hohhof

Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:28 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

Are they definitely flickering?  Or is it some kind of strobe effect because 
of the frequency not being exactly 60 Hz off the generator but you have 
something else like a fluorescent or a computer screen that is synced to 
commercial power at 60 Hz?


I don't really know what I'm implying, just stabbing in the dark.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:51 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT flicker

Little loading
I don’t see the problem.




--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

[chuck]

Just three light fixtures in there.

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 6:18 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

You're maybe thinking of the beat between the two? If one is running at
60 Hz, and the other is running at 90 Hz, the beat would be 30 Hz (90-60).

bp


On 6/22/2020 4:28 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Are they definitely flickering?  Or is it some kind of strobe effect 
because of the frequency not being exactly 60 Hz off the generator but you 
have something else like a fluorescent or a computer screen that is synced 
to commercial power at 60 Hz?


I don't really know what I'm implying, just stabbing in the dark.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:51 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT flicker

Little loading
I don’t see the problem.






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

[Ken Hohhof]

Or if one is 60 Hz and the other is 61 Hz, the beat would be 1 Hz.

(Is the singular of Hertz pronounced Hert?)

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 7:19 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

You're maybe thinking of the beat between the two? If one is running at 
60 Hz, and the other is running at 90 Hz, the beat would be 30 Hz (90-60).

bp


On 6/22/2020 4:28 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Are they definitely flickering?  Or is it some kind of strobe effect because 
> of the frequency not being exactly 60 Hz off the generator but you have 
> something else like a fluorescent or a computer screen that is synced to 
> commercial power at 60 Hz?
>
> I don't really know what I'm implying, just stabbing in the dark.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:51 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT flicker
>
> Little loading
> I don’t see the problem.
>
>
>
>

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

[Bill Prince]

LED drivers are supposed to be constant current. What is before the LED 
driver making it 30 volts? Or is it coming in at 110VAC, such that the 
driver is both rectifying and current controlling?



bp


On 6/22/2020 5:28 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

It seems to be a random flicker.
The output of the LED driver says it is supposed to be 30 volts. It is 
measured at a slightly dirty 27 volts.


-Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:28 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

Are they definitely flickering?  Or is it some kind of strobe effect 
because of the frequency not being exactly 60 Hz off the generator but 
you have something else like a fluorescent or a computer screen that 
is synced to commercial power at 60 Hz?


I don't really know what I'm implying, just stabbing in the dark.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:51 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT flicker

Little loading
I don’t see the problem.






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

[Bill Prince]

Is it constant voltage or constant current? A single fixture with a 
known configuration of LEDs "should" be constant current.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RQOphp-mxE


bp


On 6/22/2020 5:28 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Just three light fixtures in there.

-Original Message- From: Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 6:18 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

You're maybe thinking of the beat between the two? If one is running at
60 Hz, and the other is running at 90 Hz, the beat would be 30 Hz 
(90-60).


bp


On 6/22/2020 4:28 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Are they definitely flickering?  Or is it some kind of strobe effect 
because of the frequency not being exactly 60 Hz off the generator 
but you have something else like a fluorescent or a computer screen 
that is synced to commercial power at 60 Hz?


I don't really know what I'm implying, just stabbing in the dark.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:51 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT flicker

Little loading
I don’t see the problem.








--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

[chuck]

120-277 VAC in.
30 volts 680 ma out.
Imma gonna add some 3200uF caps to the 30 volt side.
I tried a 1000 uF and it almost eradicated it.

-Original Message- 
From: Bill Prince

Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 6:39 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

LED drivers are supposed to be constant current. What is before the LED
driver making it 30 volts? Or is it coming in at 110VAC, such that the
driver is both rectifying and current controlling?


bp


On 6/22/2020 5:28 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

It seems to be a random flicker.
The output of the LED driver says it is supposed to be 30 volts. It is 
measured at a slightly dirty 27 volts.


-Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:28 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

Are they definitely flickering?  Or is it some kind of strobe effect 
because of the frequency not being exactly 60 Hz off the generator but you 
have something else like a fluorescent or a computer screen that is synced 
to commercial power at 60 Hz?


I don't really know what I'm implying, just stabbing in the dark.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:51 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT flicker

Little loading
I don’t see the problem.






--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

[Ken Hohhof]

Or maybe an inductor in series to keep the current flowing?

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 7:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

120-277 VAC in.
30 volts 680 ma out.
Imma gonna add some 3200uF caps to the 30 volt side.
I tried a 1000 uF and it almost eradicated it.

-Original Message-
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 6:39 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker

LED drivers are supposed to be constant current. What is before the LED driver 
making it 30 volts? Or is it coming in at 110VAC, such that the driver is both 
rectifying and current controlling?


bp


On 6/22/2020 5:28 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> It seems to be a random flicker.
> The output of the LED driver says it is supposed to be 30 volts. It is 
> measured at a slightly dirty 27 volts.
>
> -Original Message- From: Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:28 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT flicker
>
> Are they definitely flickering?  Or is it some kind of strobe effect 
> because of the frequency not being exactly 60 Hz off the generator but 
> you have something else like a fluorescent or a computer screen that 
> is synced to commercial power at 60 Hz?
>
> I don't really know what I'm implying, just stabbing in the dark.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:51 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT flicker
>
> Little loading
> I don’t see the problem.
>
>
>
>

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] VPN?

[Colin Stanners]

To how many different hosts is the traffic going? That'll give you an idea
if it's VPN or something like TOR. Usually if customers are doing something
weird and complaining about performance, we first say to stop that weird
activity so that our benchmarks (speed / ping / MTR tests) work.

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020, 7:27 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> What does it mean if 100% of a customer’s traffic is UDP between high
> numbered ports?  Does this mean they have configured a VPN service using
> their router?  If so, would you still troubleshoot any weird complaints of
> Internet performance, or make them turn it off first?
>
>
>
> Or does this mean something different that I’m not thinking of?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com