Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Chuck McCown]

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> 
> The kit is available with high band duplexers. 
> 
> But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit 
> form, so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should be 
> fine for 7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2 kits 
> plus two more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly, coordination 
> and licensing was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we did, so you'll 
> probably end up right around $5K total.
> 
> I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that completely 
> depends on the area.
> 
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson  
>> wrote:
>> Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes all 
>> the way around. 
>> 
>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont  
>>> wrote:
>>> Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is $1500, 
>>> need two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K (at the 
>>> most) for the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better antennas than 
>>> the UBNT ones in the kit, they'll be over and above. Radiowaves and KP make 
>>> good ones (they're the same antenna, actually).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Jesse DuPont
>>> 
>>> Owner / Network Architect
>>> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
>>> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
>>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>>> 
>>> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
 $4K, both radios, both antennas and a license?
  
 From: Jesse DuPont
 Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM
 To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x
  
 About $4K, 700 Mbps. Open freqs completely depends on your location. Might 
 have to upgrade antennas.
 
 Jesse DuPont
 
 Owner / Network Architect
 email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
 Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
 Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
 
 Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
 
 
  
 
 On 5/8/20 3:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> What is the cost, all in, license, antennas, everything for a system that 
> will do 7 miles?
> What throughput will that have?
> How likely is it to find an open frequency?
> 
> 
 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- 
>> 
>> Jason Wilson
>> Remotely Located
>> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
>> 530-651-1736
>> 530-748-9608 Cell
>> www.remotelylocated.com
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Ken Hohhof]

I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you basically 
have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance.  So if you’re in a 
congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to coordinate because you 
won’t have the option of using single pol if only V or H is available.  V is 
usually preferred because of less rain fade, so sometimes H is still available. 
 Bottom line, might want to do frequency coordination before buying hardware.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone





On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:



The kit is available with high band duplexers. 

 

But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit form, 
so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should be fine for 
7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2 kits plus two 
more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly, coordination and licensing 
was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we did, so you'll probably end up 
right around $5K total.

 

I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that completely 
depends on the area.

 

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson mailto:ja...@remotelylocated.com> > wrote:

Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes all the 
way around. 

 

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> > wrote:

Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is $1500, need 
two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K (at the most) for 
the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better antennas than the UBNT ones 
in the kit, they'll be over and above. Radiowaves and KP make good ones 
(they're the same antenna, actually).

 

 

Jesse DuPont

Owner / Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net  
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/  celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/  celeritybroadband



 

On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

$4K, both radios, both antennas and a license?

 

From: Jesse DuPont 

Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com  
 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

About $4K, 700 Mbps. Open freqs completely depends on your location. Might have 
to upgrade antennas.

 

Jesse DuPont

Owner / Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net  
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/  celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/  celeritybroadband



 

On 5/8/20 3:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

What is the cost, all in, license, antennas, everything for a system that will 
do 7 miles?

What throughput will that have?

How likely is it to find an open frequency?





 

 

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Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com  

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Re: [AFMUG] CPI certified installer in TN

[Ken Hohhof]

They do know that a CPI doesn’t necessarily do installation despite the title, 
right?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Timothy Steele
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 8:53 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] CPI certified installer in TN

 

have a WISP asking me for a CPI Certified installer 

 

Does anyone know of a contractor in the TN area?

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Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[chuck]

So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep?

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you basically 
have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance.  So if you’re in a 
congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to coordinate because you 
won’t have the option of using single pol if only V or H is available.  V is 
usually preferred because of less rain fade, so sometimes H is still available. 
 Bottom line, might want to do frequency coordination before buying hardware.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone





  On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:

  

  The kit is available with high band duplexers. 

   

  But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit 
form, so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should be 
fine for 7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2 kits 
plus two more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly, coordination and 
licensing was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we did, so you'll 
probably end up right around $5K total.

   

  I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that completely 
depends on the area.

   

  On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson  wrote:

Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes all 
the way around. 

 

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont  
wrote:

  Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is $1500, 
need two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K (at the 
most) for the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better antennas than the 
UBNT ones in the kit, they'll be over and above. Radiowaves and KP make good 
ones (they're the same antenna, actually).

   

   

  Jesse DuPont

  Owner / Network Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

  

   

  On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

$4K, both radios, both antennas and a license?

 

From: Jesse DuPont 

Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

About $4K, 700 Mbps. Open freqs completely depends on your location. 
Might have to upgrade antennas.

 

Jesse DuPont

Owner / Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband



 

On 5/8/20 3:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  What is the cost, all in, license, antennas, everything for a system 
that will do 7 miles?

  What throughput will that have?

  How likely is it to find an open frequency?





 

   

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Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com

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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Lewis Bergman]

We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves.
The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers
this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like
industries which presumably would experience similar sickness rates.

Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive.

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:

> I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
> We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
> Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is taken
> and logged each morning.
>
> If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that person.
> If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult as doing
> slavery reparations in a fair manner.
>
> The can sue China.
>
> *From:* Robert
> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing
> it on?
>
> On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>
> Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.
>
> On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
> 
> Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is
>> liability.
>>
>> How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets someone
>> sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you have a
>> potential OSHA issue on your hands.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[chuck]

I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open them.
Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a white 
board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.  
None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for all 
kinds of communicable diseases.  

I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much younger 
than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age demographic to 
not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try 
to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me this is just more of the 
same.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves. The 
only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers this 
kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like industries 
which presumably would experience similar sickness rates. 

Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive. 

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:

  I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
  We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
  Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is taken 
and logged each morning.

  If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that person.  If 
you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult as doing slavery 
reparations in a fair manner.  

  The can sue China.

  From: Robert 
  Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing it 
on?


  On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far. 


  On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com 
wrote:


   
  Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple

  On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is 
liability. 

How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets 
someone sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you have a 
potential OSHA issue on your hands.
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

I've been working from home. But that's because I cut everyone at the shop
open to take a gander at their lungs, I didnt see any coronas in there, no
bud light, no tecate, nothing. But they all started to stink, so I'm remote
now.

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:

> I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open
> them.
> Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
> We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
> Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a
> white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
> None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for
> all kinds of communicable diseases.
>
> I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much
> younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age
> demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt,
> don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me
> this is just more of the same.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves.
> The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers
> this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like
> industries which presumably would experience similar sickness rates.
>
> Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive.
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:
>
>> I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
>> We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
>> Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is
>> taken and logged each morning.
>>
>> If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that
>> person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult
>> as doing slavery reparations in a fair manner.
>>
>> The can sue China.
>>
>> *From:* Robert
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>> Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing
>> it on?
>>
>> On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>
>> Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.
>>
>> On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is
>>> liability.
>>>
>>> How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets
>>> someone sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you
>>> have a potential OSHA issue on your hands.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
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>>
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Lewis Bergman]

Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't
care anymore.

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:

> I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open
> them.
> Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
> We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
> Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a
> white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
> None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for
> all kinds of communicable diseases.
>
> I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much
> younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age
> demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt,
> don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me
> this is just more of the same.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves.
> The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers
> this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like
> industries which presumably would experience similar sickness rates.
>
> Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive.
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:
>
>> I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
>> We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
>> Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is
>> taken and logged each morning.
>>
>> If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that
>> person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult
>> as doing slavery reparations in a fair manner.
>>
>> The can sue China.
>>
>> *From:* Robert
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>> Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing
>> it on?
>>
>> On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>
>> Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.
>>
>> On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is
>>> liability.
>>>
>>> How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets
>>> someone sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you
>>> have a potential OSHA issue on your hands.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Mathew Howard]

I used Comsearch for the last few we did... the price wasn't much different
at the time, but I have no idea if that's still the case.

Ken is right about the performance... you basically get he same throughput
out of dual pol that higher end radios get on single pol. It only really
matters if the area is congested, but if it is, you may need to spend more
and get better radios.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM  wrote:

> So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep?
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
>
> I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you
> basically have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance.  So if
> you’re in a congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to
> coordinate because you won’t have the option of using single pol if only V
> or H is available.  V is usually preferred because of less rain fade, so
> sometimes H is still available.  Bottom line, might want to do frequency
> coordination before buying hardware.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> The kit is available with high band duplexers.
>
>
>
> But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit
> form, so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should
> be fine for 7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2
> kits plus two more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly,
> coordination and licensing was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we
> did, so you'll probably end up right around $5K total.
>
>
>
> I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that
> completely depends on the area.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson 
> wrote:
>
> Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes all
> the way around.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont 
> wrote:
>
> Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is $1500,
> need two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K (at the
> most) for the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better antennas than
> the UBNT ones in the kit, they'll be over and above. Radiowaves and KP make
> good ones (they're the same antenna, actually).
>
>
>
> 
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Owner / Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> $4K, both radios, both antennas and a license?
>
>
>
> *From:* Jesse DuPont
>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
>
>
> About $4K, 700 Mbps. Open freqs completely depends on your location. Might
> have to upgrade antennas.
>
> 
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Owner / Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 5/8/20 3:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> What is the cost, all in, license, antennas, everything for a system that
> will do 7 miles?
>
> What throughput will that have?
>
> How likely is it to find an open frequency?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736
> 530-748-9608 Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[chuck]

I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.  
So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't care 
anymore. 

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:

  I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open them.
  Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
  We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
  Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a white 
board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.  
  None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for all 
kinds of communicable diseases.  

  I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much 
younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age 
demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt, don’t 
smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me this is 
just more of the same.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves. 
The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers 
this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like 
industries which presumably would experience similar sickness rates. 

  Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive. 

  On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:

I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is taken 
and logged each morning.

If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that person.  
If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult as doing 
slavery reparations in a fair manner.  

The can sue China.

From: Robert 
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing it 
on?


On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

  Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far. 


On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:


 
Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is 
liability. 

  How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets 
someone sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you have a 
potential OSHA issue on your hands.
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[chuck]

Irrespective of how anyone actually feels, it never hurts to show your 
employees that you care about them.  Even if it is disingenuous.  

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.  
So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't care 
anymore. 

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:

  I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open them.
  Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
  We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
  Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a white 
board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.  
  None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for all 
kinds of communicable diseases.  

  I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much 
younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age 
demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt, don’t 
smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me this is 
just more of the same.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves. 
The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers 
this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like 
industries which presumably would experience similar sickness rates. 

  Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive. 

  On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:

I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is taken 
and logged each morning.

If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that person.  
If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult as doing 
slavery reparations in a fair manner.  

The can sue China.

From: Robert 
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing it 
on?


On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

  Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far. 


On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:


 
Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is 
liability. 

  How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets 
someone sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you have a 
potential OSHA issue on your hands.
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Mike Hammett]

How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better dishes, 
yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway? 

AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away) 
N to waveguide adapters 
Good dish 


vs. 


Better radio 
Good dish 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mathew Howard"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:21:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x 


I used Comsearch for the last few we did... the price wasn't much different at 
the time, but I have no idea if that's still the case. 


Ken is right about the performance... you basically get he same throughput out 
of dual pol that higher end radios get on single pol. It only really matters if 
the area is congested, but if it is, you may need to spend more and get better 
radios. 


On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep? 




From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM 
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x 



I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you basically 
have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance. So if you’re in a 
congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to coordinate because you 
won’t have the option of using single pol if only V or H is available. V is 
usually preferred because of less rain fade, so sometimes H is still available. 
Bottom line, might want to do frequency coordination before buying hardware. 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x 

Thanks. 

Sent from my iPhone 






On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 







The kit is available with high band duplexers. 



But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit form, 
so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should be fine for 
7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2 kits plus two 
more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly, coordination and licensing 
was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we did, so you'll probably end up 
right around $5K total. 



I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that completely 
depends on the area. 



On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson < ja...@remotelylocated.com > 
wrote: 




Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes all the 
way around. 




On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont < jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net > 
wrote: 



Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is $1500, need 
two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K (at the most) for 
the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better antennas than the UBNT ones 
in the kit, they'll be over and above. Radiowaves and KP make good ones 
(they're the same antenna, actually). 





Jesse DuPont 
Owner / Network Architect 
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net 
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC 
Like us! facebook.com/ celeritynetworksllc 
Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband 

 


On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 





$4K, both radios, both antennas and a license? 






From: Jesse DuPont 

Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM 

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x 



About $4K, 700 Mbps. Open freqs completely depends on your location. Might have 
to upgrade antennas. 



Jesse DuPont 
Owner / Network Architect 
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net 
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC 
Like us! facebook.com/ celeritynetworksllc 
Like us! facebook.com/ celeritybroadband 

 


On 5/8/20 3:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 





What is the cost, all in, license, antennas, everything for a system that will 
do 7 miles? 

What throughput will that have? 

How likely is it to find an open frequency? 









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Remotely Located 
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places. 
530-651-1736 
530-748-9608 Cell 
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the talking heads
keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and they wouldn't lie. So
right now when the hospitals are empty and 60 percent of healthcare staff
is laid off is the ideal time to get it. Get it in the fall when it
resources (again, matt and the talking heads have guaranteed this) are
taxed due to flu season, and survivability drops.
>From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best tool to
fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened people go and
get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its effectively the same
thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune" which
is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other viruses. But
guess what that means. It means that there will never be a vaccine since
that's what vaccines to (make your body think you've had the disease). Matt
and the talking heads cannot have it both ways, science doesnt allow it.

I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my kids. I
have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough, I'd like to get
to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this teaching these little
bastards to cower in the corner because the government says to, especially
when the governments demands dont match the so called science they're
basing it on. And the little dough ball isnt developing an immune system,
he will be that pale gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I
dont get him exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him
across a truck stop floor

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM  wrote:

> I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
> So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't
> care anymore.
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:
>
>> I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open
>> them.
>> Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
>> We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
>> Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a
>> white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
>> None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for
>> all kinds of communicable diseases.
>>
>> I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much
>> younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age
>> demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt,
>> don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me
>> this is just more of the same.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>> We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no
>> gloves. The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers
>> comp covers this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total
>> experience of like industries which presumably would experience similar
>> sickness rates.
>>
>> Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive.
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
>>> We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
>>> Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is
>>> taken and logged each morning.
>>>
>>> If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that
>>> person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult
>>> as doing slavery reparations in a fair manner.
>>>
>>> The can sue China.
>>>
>>> *From:* Robert
>>> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>> Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing
>>> it on?
>>>
>>> On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>
>>> Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.
>>>
>>> On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
>>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>>
 As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is
 liability.

 How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets
 someone sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you
 have a potential OSHA issue on your hands.
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinf

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Ken Hohhof]

Here is our new field tech wearing company issued PPE.  He is also reputed to 
be immortal.

 



 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:35 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.  

So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.

 

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't care 
anymore. 

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open them.

Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.

We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.

Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a white 
board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.  

None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for all 
kinds of communicable diseases.  

 

I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much younger 
than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age demographic to 
not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try 
to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me this is just more of the 
same.  

 

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves. The 
only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers this 
kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like industries 
which presumably would experience similar sickness rates. 

 

Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive. 

 

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.

We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.

Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is taken and 
logged each morning.

 

If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that person.  If 
you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult as doing slavery 
reparations in a fair manner.  

 

The can sue China.

 

From: Robert 

Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing it on?

On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far. 





On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:

 

Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple

 

On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:

As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is liability. 

How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets someone sick 
(and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you have a potential 
OSHA issue on your hands.
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





 


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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[chuck]

Man I wish I had saved a few antennas from the years I was making them.  
I can still build the waveguide adapters.  That is easy for me.  

I wonder what the chance of getting caught running unlicensed is...

Anyone have any used gear they want to sell me?

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:43 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better dishes, 
yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway?

AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away) 
N to waveguide adapters
Good dish

vs.

Better radio
Good dish




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Mathew Howard" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:21:00 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x


I used Comsearch for the last few we did... the price wasn't much different at 
the time, but I have no idea if that's still the case. 

Ken is right about the performance... you basically get he same throughput out 
of dual pol that higher end radios get on single pol. It only really matters if 
the area is congested, but if it is, you may need to spend more and get better 
radios.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM  wrote:

  So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep?

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

  I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you 
basically have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance.  So if 
you’re in a congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to coordinate 
because you won’t have the option of using single pol if only V or H is 
available.  V is usually preferred because of less rain fade, so sometimes H is 
still available.  Bottom line, might want to do frequency coordination before 
buying hardware.



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x



  Thanks.

  Sent from my iPhone





On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:



The kit is available with high band duplexers. 



But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit 
form, so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should be 
fine for 7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2 kits 
plus two more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly, coordination and 
licensing was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we did, so you'll 
probably end up right around $5K total.



I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that 
completely depends on the area.



On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson  
wrote:

  Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes 
all the way around. 



  On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont 
 wrote:

Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is 
$1500, need two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K (at 
the most) for the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better antennas than 
the UBNT ones in the kit, they'll be over and above. Radiowaves and KP make 
good ones (they're the same antenna, actually).



 

Jesse DuPont

Owner / Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband





On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  $4K, both radios, both antennas and a license?



  From: Jesse DuPont 

  Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x



  About $4K, 700 Mbps. Open freqs completely depends on your location. 
Might have to upgrade antennas.

   

  Jesse DuPont

  Owner / Network Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
  Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
  Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

  Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband

  



  On 5/8/20 3:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

What is the cost, all in, license, antennas, everything for a 
system that will do 7 miles?

What throughput will that have?

How likely is it to find an open frequency?









-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

  -- 


  Jason Wilson
  Remotely Located
  Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
  530-651-1736
  530-748

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Mike Hammett]

Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from getting to 
everyone. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steve Jones"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability 


That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the talking heads 
keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and they wouldn't lie. So 
right now when the hospitals are empty and 60 percent of healthcare staff is 
laid off is the ideal time to get it. Get it in the fall when it resources 
(again, matt and the talking heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu 
season, and survivability drops. 
>From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best tool to 
>fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened people go and get 
>infected, and start treatment immediately. Its effectively the same thing as 
>vaccination with a few more steps. 
Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune" which is 
fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other viruses. But guess what 
that means. It means that there will never be a vaccine since that's what 
vaccines to (make your body think you've had the disease). Matt and the talking 
heads cannot have it both ways, science doesnt allow it. 


I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my kids. I have 
this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough, I'd like to get to know 
what he cooks into. But I wont do this teaching these little bastards to cower 
in the corner because the government says to, especially when the governments 
demands dont match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little 
dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he will be that pale gray sickly 
kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I dont get him exposed to some community 
germs. I'm about to go drag him across a truck stop floor 


On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet. 
So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids. 




From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability 


Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't care 
anymore. 


On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open them. 
Put an auto flush valve on the urinal. 
We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing. 
Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a white 
board is surprisingly reassuring in a way. 
None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for all 
kinds of communicable diseases. 

I don’t want them to bring it back to me. Everyone at my place is much younger 
than my wife and myself. Silly for those in a particular age demographic to not 
be as careful as they can. I also wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try to 
keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low. To me this is just more of the 
same. 




From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability 


We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves. The 
only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers this 
kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like industries 
which presumably would experience similar sickness rates. 

Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive. 


On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






I never shut down. I build critical infrastructure. 
We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle. 
Gave them all gloves and masks. Make sure everyone’s temperature is taken and 
logged each morning. 

If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that person. If 
you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult as doing slavery 
reparations in a fair manner. 

The can sue China. 




From: Robert 
Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability 

Act of God? How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing it on? 


On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 



Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far. 



On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote: 







Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple 


On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes < mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net > 
wrote: 


As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is liability. 

How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets someone sick 
(and they die), or someone gets you

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Ken Hohhof]

FCC fine would wipe out the cost savings many times over.  Plus your picture on 
the wanted posters at every post office.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 10:02 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

Man I wish I had saved a few antennas from the years I was making them.  

I can still build the waveguide adapters.  That is easy for me.  

 

I wonder what the chance of getting caught running unlicensed is...

 

Anyone have any used gear they want to sell me?

 

From: Mike Hammett 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:43 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better dishes, 
yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway?

AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away) 

N to waveguide adapters

Good dish

 

vs.

 

Better radio

Good dish



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 




  _  

From: "Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:21:00 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

I used Comsearch for the last few we did... the price wasn't much different at 
the time, but I have no idea if that's still the case. 

 

Ken is right about the performance... you basically get he same throughput out 
of dual pol that higher end radios get on single pol. It only really matters if 
the area is congested, but if it is, you may need to spend more and get better 
radios.

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep?

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you basically 
have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance.  So if you’re in a 
congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to coordinate because you 
won’t have the option of using single pol if only V or H is available.  V is 
usually preferred because of less rain fade, so sometimes H is still available. 
 Bottom line, might want to do frequency coordination before buying hardware.

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Chuck McCown
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

 

On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:



The kit is available with high band duplexers. 

 

But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit form, 
so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should be fine for 
7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2 kits plus two 
more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly, coordination and licensing 
was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we did, so you'll probably end up 
right around $5K total.

 

I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that completely 
depends on the area.

 

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson mailto:ja...@remotelylocated.com> > wrote:

Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes all the 
way around. 

 

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> > wrote:

Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is $1500, need 
two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K (at the most) for 
the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better antennas than the UBNT ones 
in the kit, they'll be over and above. Radiowaves and KP make good ones 
(they're the same antenna, actually).

 

 

Jesse DuPont

Owner / Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net  
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/  celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/  celeritybroadband



 

On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

$4K, both radios, both antennas and a license?

 

From: Jesse DuPont 

Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com  
 

Subject: Re: 

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[chuck]

No sir, not my radio, don’t know how it got on that tower...
How about:  the company that put it up there went out of business.

I wonder how they do fine an entity or person if they cannot prove who the 
owner is?

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:18 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

FCC fine would wipe out the cost savings many times over.  Plus your picture on 
the wanted posters at every post office.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 10:02 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

Man I wish I had saved a few antennas from the years I was making them.  

I can still build the waveguide adapters.  That is easy for me.  

 

I wonder what the chance of getting caught running unlicensed is...

 

Anyone have any used gear they want to sell me?

 

From: Mike Hammett 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:43 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better dishes, 
yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway?

AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away) 

N to waveguide adapters

Good dish

 

vs.

 

Better radio

Good dish



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Mathew Howard" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:21:00 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

I used Comsearch for the last few we did... the price wasn't much different at 
the time, but I have no idea if that's still the case. 

 

Ken is right about the performance... you basically get he same throughput out 
of dual pol that higher end radios get on single pol. It only really matters if 
the area is congested, but if it is, you may need to spend more and get better 
radios.

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM  wrote:

  So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep?

   

  From: Ken Hohhof 

  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM

  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

   

  I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you 
basically have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance.  So if 
you’re in a congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to coordinate 
because you won’t have the option of using single pol if only V or H is 
available.  V is usually preferred because of less rain fade, so sometimes H is 
still available.  Bottom line, might want to do frequency coordination before 
buying hardware.

   

  From: AF  On Behalf Of Chuck McCown
  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

   

  Thanks.

  Sent from my iPhone

   

On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:



The kit is available with high band duplexers. 

 

But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit 
form, so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should be 
fine for 7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2 kits 
plus two more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly, coordination and 
licensing was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we did, so you'll 
probably end up right around $5K total.

 

I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that 
completely depends on the area.

 

On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson  
wrote:

  Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes 
all the way around. 

   

  On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont 
 wrote:

Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is 
$1500, need two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K (at 
the most) for the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better antennas than 
the UBNT ones in the kit, they'll be over and above. Radiowaves and KP make 
good ones (they're the same antenna, actually).

 

 

Jesse DuPont

Owner / Network Architect
email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc

Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband



 

On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  $4K, both radios, both antennas and a license?

   

  From: Jesse DuPont 

  Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

   

  About $4K, 700 Mbps. Open freqs completely depends on your location. 
Might have to upgrade antennas.

   

  Jesse DuPont

  Owner / Network Architect
  email: jesse.dup...@celerityco

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Mathew Howard]

Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at
some point...

I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the
hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the
price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember
exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually
quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with
throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be
about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is
going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.

It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous dishes
with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which I think
was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's the case
anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit).

And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol with
the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it would
take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers.

But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is
if congestion makes a cat A dish necessary.

Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger
dishes... Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from
Streakwave, but that may not be the case for other stuff.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better
> dishes, yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway?
>
> AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away)
> N to waveguide adapters
> Good dish
>
> vs.
>
> Better radio
> Good dish
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:21:00 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
> I used Comsearch for the last few we did... the price wasn't much
> different at the time, but I have no idea if that's still the case.
>
> Ken is right about the performance... you basically get he same throughput
> out of dual pol that higher end radios get on single pol. It only really
> matters if the area is congested, but if it is, you may need to spend more
> and get better radios.
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM  wrote:
>
>> So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep?
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>
>>
>> I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you
>> basically have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance.  So if
>> you’re in a congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to
>> coordinate because you won’t have the option of using single pol if only V
>> or H is available.  V is usually preferred because of less rain fade, so
>> sometimes H is still available.  Bottom line, might want to do frequency
>> coordination before buying hardware.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> The kit is available with high band duplexers.
>>
>>
>>
>> But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit
>> form, so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should
>> be fine for 7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2
>> kits plus two more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly,
>> coordination and licensing was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we
>> did, so you'll probably end up right around $5K total.
>>
>>
>>
>> I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that
>> completely depends on the area.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes
>> all the way around.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont <
>> jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> wrote:
>>
>> Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two a

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Mathew Howard]

That kind of thing makes sense to do, especially if you have people that
are at high risk. I don't want people within 6 feet of me when they don't
need to be anyway, so I'm good with that, and working from home when I can
means I can sleep until my phone starts ringing...

But a lot of the stuff I see people doing is just way overboard. We can
probably do 95% of what we do with out any real risk of exposing anyone to
anything.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:07 AM  wrote:

> I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open
> them.
> Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
> We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
> Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a
> white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
> None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work for
> all kinds of communicable diseases.
>
> I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much
> younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age
> demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt,
> don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me
> this is just more of the same.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no gloves.
> The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers comp covers
> this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total experience of like
> industries which presumably would experience similar sickness rates.
>
> Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive.
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:
>
>> I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
>> We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
>> Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is
>> taken and logged each morning.
>>
>> If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that
>> person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it would as difficult
>> as doing slavery reparations in a fair manner.
>>
>> The can sue China.
>>
>> *From:* Robert
>> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>> Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or passing
>> it on?
>>
>> On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>
>> Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.
>>
>> On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
>>
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes <
>> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>>
>>> As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is
>>> liability.
>>>
>>> How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets
>>> someone sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you
>>> have a potential OSHA issue on your hands.
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest
availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
> getting to everyone.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Steve Jones" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the talking
> heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and they wouldn't
> lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60 percent of healthcare
> staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it. Get it in the fall when it
> resources (again, matt and the talking heads have guaranteed this) are
> taxed due to flu season, and survivability drops.
> From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best tool
> to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened people go
> and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its effectively the same
> thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
> Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune" which
> is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other viruses. But
> guess what that means. It means that there will never be a vaccine since
> that's what vaccines to (make your body think you've had the disease). Matt
> and the talking heads cannot have it both ways, science doesnt allow it.
>
> I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my kids. I
> have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough, I'd like to get
> to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this teaching these little
> bastards to cower in the corner because the government says to, especially
> when the governments demands dont match the so called science they're
> basing it on. And the little dough ball isnt developing an immune system,
> he will be that pale gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I
> dont get him exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him
> across a truck stop floor
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM  wrote:
>
>> I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
>> So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>
>> Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I don't
>> care anymore.
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to open
>>> them.
>>> Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
>>> We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
>>> Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them on a
>>> white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
>>> None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will work
>>> for all kinds of communicable diseases.
>>>
>>> I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is much
>>> younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a particular age
>>> demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also wear my seat belt,
>>> don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low.  To me
>>> this is just more of the same.
>>>
>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>>
>>> We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no
>>> gloves. The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid. Workers
>>> comp covers this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the total
>>> experience of like industries which presumably would experience similar
>>> sickness rates.
>>>
>>> Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything productive.
>>>
>>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:
>>>
 I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
 We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
 Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s temperature is
 taken and logged each morning.

 If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to that
 person.  If you want to at

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Mike Hammett]

I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different value 
that needs to be considered. 


If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could represent 
more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out 4' or 6' high 
performance dishes? 




It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge 
differences in what you may need to use in your environment. 


That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7 mile 
link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Mathew Howard"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x 


Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at some 
point... 


I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the 
hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the price of 
the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember exactly how 
the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually quite a bit less 
than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with throwing the ubiquiti 
dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be about the same price for 
either radio, so the only other difference is going to be a few hundred for 
adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish. 


It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous dishes with 
the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which I think was like 
$140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's the case anymore (and 
it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit). 


And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol with the 
AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it would take 
~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers. 


But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is if 
congestion makes a cat A dish necessary. 



Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger dishes... 
Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from Streakwave, but that 
may not be the case for other stuff. 


On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett < af...@ics-il.net > wrote: 




How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better dishes, 
yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway? 

AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away) 
N to waveguide adapters 
Good dish 


vs. 


Better radio 
Good dish 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 






From: "Mathew Howard" < mhoward...@gmail.com > 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" < af@af.afmug.com > 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:21:00 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x 


I used Comsearch for the last few we did... the price wasn't much different at 
the time, but I have no idea if that's still the case. 


Ken is right about the performance... you basically get he same throughput out 
of dual pol that higher end radios get on single pol. It only really matters if 
the area is congested, but if it is, you may need to spend more and get better 
radios. 


On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM < ch...@wbmfg.com > wrote: 






So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep? 




From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM 
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x 



I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you basically 
have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance. So if you’re in a 
congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to coordinate because you 
won’t have the option of using single pol if only V or H is available. V is 
usually preferred because of less rain fade, so sometimes H is still available. 
Bottom line, might want to do frequency coordination before buying hardware. 



From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Chuck McCown 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM 
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group < af@af.afmug.com > 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x 

Thanks. 

Sent from my iPhone 






On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard < mhoward...@gmail.com > wrote: 







The kit is available with high band duplexers. 



But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit form, 
so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should be fine for 
7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2 kits plus two 
more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly, coordination and licensing 
was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we did, so you'll probably end up 
right around $5K total. 



I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that completely 
depends on the area. 



On Fri, May 8

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Robert Andrews]

I know some people feel I am rather polarized on this.   But after 
seeing statements about people are going to be militant about not 
wearing masks ( local neighborhood postings specially ) I wonder, with 
the local government requirements to wear a mask in public, if someone 
sneezes near me or someone else within 10 feet, could that be considered 
assault?   Would there be legal recourse?


On 05/09/2020 09:31 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
That kind of thing makes sense to do, especially if you have people that 
are at high risk. I don't want people within 6 feet of me when they 
don't need to be anyway, so I'm good with that, and working from home 
when I can means I can sleep until my phone starts ringing...


But a lot of the stuff I see people doing is just way overboard. We can 
probably do 95% of what we do with out any real risk of exposing anyone 
to anything.


On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:07 AM > wrote:


I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to
open them.
Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them
on a white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will
work for all kinds of communicable diseases.
I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is
much younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a
particular age demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also
wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and
blood pressure low.  To me this is just more of the same.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no
gloves. The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid.
Workers comp covers this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the
total experience of like industries which presumably would
experience similar sickness rates.
Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything
productive.
On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:

I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s
temperature is taken and logged each morning.
If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to
that person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it
would as difficult as doing slavery reparations in a fair manner.
The can sue China.
*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or
passing it on?

On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.


On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:


Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes
 wrote:

As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that
remains is liability.

How are you all addressing the liability if either your
tech gets someone sick (and they die), or someone gets
your tech sick (and now you have a potential OSHA issue
on your hands.
-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





--
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Robert Andrews]

And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than we will 
know in 6 months.  It's a teeter-totter...


On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest 
availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.


On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett > wrote:


Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
getting to everyone.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *"Steve Jones" mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>>
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the
talking heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and
they wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60
percent of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it.
Get it in the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking
heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and
survivability drops.
 From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best
tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened
people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its
effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune"
which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other
viruses. But guess what that means. It means that there will never
be a vaccine since that's what vaccines to (make your body think
you've had the disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it
both ways, science doesnt allow it.

I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my
kids. I have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough,
I'd like to get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this
teaching these little bastards to cower in the corner because the
government says to, especially when the governments demands dont
match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little
dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he will be that pale
gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I dont get him
exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him across a
truck stop floor

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get
it. I don't care anymore.
On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:

I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a
hand to open them.
Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and
posting them on a white board is surprisingly reassuring in
a way.
None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and
will work for all kinds of communicable diseases.
I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my
place is much younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for
those in a particular age demographic to not be as careful
as they can.  I also wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try
to keep my blood sugar and blood pressure low. To me this is
just more of the same.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no
masks, no gloves. The only thing we are sick of is all the
talk of covid. Workers comp covers this kind of thing and
   

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Mathew Howard]

Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is
that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has
better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes
for similar performance in some circumstances.

Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are
actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent
2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some
capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem
in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is
questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack
of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the
links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.


On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different
> value that needs to be considered.
>
> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could
> represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out
> 4' or 6' high performance dishes?
>
>
> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge
> differences in what you may need to use in your environment.
>
> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7
> mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at
> some point...
>
> I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the
> hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the
> price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember
> exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually
> quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with
> throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be
> about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is
> going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.
>
> It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous dishes
> with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which I think
> was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's the case
> anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit).
>
> And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol
> with the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it
> would take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers.
>
> But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is
> if congestion makes a cat A dish necessary.
>
> Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger
> dishes... Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from
> Streakwave, but that may not be the case for other stuff.
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better
>> dishes, yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway?
>>
>> AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away)
>> N to waveguide adapters
>> Good dish
>>
>> vs.
>>
>> Better radio
>> Good dish
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:21:00 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

In illinois its aggravated battery right now to sneeze on someone willfully

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:46 AM Robert Andrews  wrote:

> I know some people feel I am rather polarized on this.   But after
> seeing statements about people are going to be militant about not
> wearing masks ( local neighborhood postings specially ) I wonder, with
> the local government requirements to wear a mask in public, if someone
> sneezes near me or someone else within 10 feet, could that be considered
> assault?   Would there be legal recourse?
>
> On 05/09/2020 09:31 AM, Mathew Howard wrote:
> > That kind of thing makes sense to do, especially if you have people that
> > are at high risk. I don't want people within 6 feet of me when they
> > don't need to be anyway, so I'm good with that, and working from home
> > when I can means I can sleep until my phone starts ringing...
> >
> > But a lot of the stuff I see people doing is just way overboard. We can
> > probably do 95% of what we do with out any real risk of exposing anyone
> > to anything.
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:07 AM  > > wrote:
> >
> > I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand to
> > open them.
> > Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
> > We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
> > Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting them
> > on a white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
> > None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will
> > work for all kinds of communicable diseases.
> > I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place is
> > much younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a
> > particular age demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I also
> > wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try to keep my blood sugar and
> > blood pressure low.  To me this is just more of the same.
> > *From:* Lewis Bergman
> > *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> > We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks, no
> > gloves. The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of covid.
> > Workers comp covers this kind of thing and your ERA is based on the
> > total experience of like industries which presumably would
> > experience similar sickness rates.
> > Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything
> > productive.
> > On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:
> >
> > I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
> > We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
> > Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s
> > temperature is taken and logged each morning.
> > If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to
> > that person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it
> > would as difficult as doing slavery reparations in a fair manner.
> > The can sue China.
> > *From:* Robert
> > *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
> > *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> > Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the flu or
> > passing it on?
> >
> > On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> >> Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far.
> >>
> >>> On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones
> >>> mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com wrote:
> >>>
> >>> 
> >>> Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
> >>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that
> >>> remains is liability.
> >>>
> >>> How are you all addressing the liability if either your
> >>> tech gets someone sick (and they die), or someone gets
> >>> your tech sick (and now you have a potential OSHA issue
> >>> on your hands.
> >>> --
> >>> AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >
> >
>  
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >
> >
>  
> > --
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com 
> >

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Steve Jones]

Lol, yeah, 6monrh, then 6 months, then 6 months. Get real. Its over

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:47 AM Robert Andrews  wrote:

> And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than we will
> know in 6 months.  It's a teeter-totter...
>
> On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> > That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest
> > availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett  > > wrote:
> >
> > Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
> > getting to everyone.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> > <
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> > <
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP 
> > 
> >
> >
> > 
> >
>  
> > *From: *"Steve Jones"  > >
> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  > >
> > *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >
> > That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the
> > talking heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and
> > they wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60
> > percent of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it.
> > Get it in the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking
> > heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and
> > survivability drops.
> >  From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best
> > tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened
> > people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its
> > effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
> > Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune"
> > which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other
> > viruses. But guess what that means. It means that there will never
> > be a vaccine since that's what vaccines to (make your body think
> > you've had the disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it
> > both ways, science doesnt allow it.
> >
> > I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my
> > kids. I have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough,
> > I'd like to get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this
> > teaching these little bastards to cower in the corner because the
> > government says to, especially when the governments demands dont
> > match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little
> > dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he will be that pale
> > gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I dont get him
> > exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him across a
> > truck stop floor
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM  > > wrote:
> >
> > I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
> > So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
> > *From:* Lewis Bergman
> > *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
> > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> > Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get
> > it. I don't care anymore.
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:
> >
> > I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a
> > hand to open them.
> > Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
> > We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
> > Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and
> > posting them on a white board is surprisingly reassuring in
> > a way.
> > None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and
> > will work for all kinds of communicable diseases.
> > I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my
> > place is much younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for
> > those in a particular age demographic to not be as careful
> > as they can.  I also wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try
> > to keep my bloo

[AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

[chuck]

Do we have a right not to be infected by others?
Do we have a right not to be coughed on or sneezed on or breathed on?
Do we have a right not to be pissed on or have someone smear their 
blood/feces/snot on us?

If we have these rights, then that means other people must do something to 
preserve our rights.
Distance, mask, not go around naked

Do you have a right to not wear a mask around me?
Do I have a right to ask you to wear a mask around me?
How large is a personal bubble?  
Do you have the exclusive say as to how things go inside your bubble?

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:30 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

Lol, yeah, 6monrh, then 6 months, then 6 months. Get real. Its over

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:47 AM Robert Andrews  wrote:

  And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than we will 
  know in 6 months.  It's a teeter-totter...

  On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
  > That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest 
  > availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.
  > 
  > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett  > wrote:
  > 
  > Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
  > getting to everyone.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > -
  > Mike Hammett
  > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
  > 

  > Midwest Internet Exchange 
  > 

  > The Brothers WISP 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > *From: *"Steve Jones"  >
  > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  >
  > *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
  > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  > 
  > That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the
  > talking heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and
  > they wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60
  > percent of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it.
  > Get it in the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking
  > heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and
  > survivability drops.
  >  From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best
  > tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened
  > people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its
  > effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
  > Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune"
  > which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other
  > viruses. But guess what that means. It means that there will never
  > be a vaccine since that's what vaccines to (make your body think
  > you've had the disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it
  > both ways, science doesnt allow it.
  > 
  > I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my
  > kids. I have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough,
  > I'd like to get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this
  > teaching these little bastards to cower in the corner because the
  > government says to, especially when the governments demands dont
  > match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little
  > dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he will be that pale
  > gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I dont get him
  > exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him across a
  > truck stop floor
  > 
  > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM  > wrote:
  > 
  > I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
  > So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
  > *From:* Lewis Bergman
  > *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
  > *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
  > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  > Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get
  > it. I don't care anymore.
  > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:
  > 
  > I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a
  > hand to open them.
  > Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
  > We asked 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

[Ken Hohhof]

You got me.  I figured Tussis was a famous ancient philosopher.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 1:30 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

 

Do we have a right not to be infected by others?

Do we have a right not to be coughed on or sneezed on or breathed on?

Do we have a right not to be pissed on or have someone smear their 
blood/feces/snot on us?

 

If we have these rights, then that means other people must do something to 
preserve our rights.

Distance, mask, not go around naked

 

Do you have a right to not wear a mask around me?

Do I have a right to ask you to wear a mask around me?

How large is a personal bubble?  

Do you have the exclusive say as to how things go inside your bubble?

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:30 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Lol, yeah, 6monrh, then 6 months, then 6 months. Get real. Its over

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:47 AM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than we will 
know in 6 months.  It's a teeter-totter...

On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest 
> availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.
> 
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett   
> > wrote:
> 
> Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
> getting to everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *From: *"Steve Jones"   
> >
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"   
> >
> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> 
> That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the
> talking heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and
> they wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60
> percent of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it.
> Get it in the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking
> heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and
> survivability drops.
>  From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best
> tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened
> people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its
> effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
> Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune"
> which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other
> viruses. But guess what that means. It means that there will never
> be a vaccine since that's what vaccines to (make your body think
> you've had the disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it
> both ways, science doesnt allow it.
> 
> I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my
> kids. I have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough,
> I'd like to get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this
> teaching these little bastards to cower in the corner because the
> government says to, especially when the governments demands dont
> match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little
> dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he will be that pale
> gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I dont get him
> exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him across a
> truck stop floor
> 
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com%0b> 
> > wrote:
> 
> I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
> So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't ge

[AFMUG] SJEOOW cord

[Ken Hohhof]

Has anyone used SJEOOW instead of SJOOW for running DC power up towers?

 

It looks like it is more waterproof and has a wider temperature range, but
doesn't cost that much more.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

[chuck]

Well, I don’t wanna touch your tussis.

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 12:47 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

You got me.  I figured Tussis was a famous ancient philosopher.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 1:30 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

 

Do we have a right not to be infected by others?

Do we have a right not to be coughed on or sneezed on or breathed on?

Do we have a right not to be pissed on or have someone smear their 
blood/feces/snot on us?

 

If we have these rights, then that means other people must do something to 
preserve our rights.

Distance, mask, not go around naked

 

Do you have a right to not wear a mask around me?

Do I have a right to ask you to wear a mask around me?

How large is a personal bubble?  

Do you have the exclusive say as to how things go inside your bubble?

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:30 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Lol, yeah, 6monrh, then 6 months, then 6 months. Get real. Its over

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:47 AM Robert Andrews  wrote:

  And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than we will 
  know in 6 months.  It's a teeter-totter...

  On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
  > That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest 
  > availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.
  > 
  > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett  > wrote:
  > 
  > Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
  > getting to everyone.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > -
  > Mike Hammett
  > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
  > 

  > Midwest Internet Exchange 
  > 

  > The Brothers WISP 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > *From: *"Steve Jones"  >
  > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  >
  > *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
  > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  > 
  > That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the
  > talking heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and
  > they wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60
  > percent of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it.
  > Get it in the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking
  > heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and
  > survivability drops.
  >  From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best
  > tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened
  > people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its
  > effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
  > Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune"
  > which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other
  > viruses. But guess what that means. It means that there will never
  > be a vaccine since that's what vaccines to (make your body think
  > you've had the disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it
  > both ways, science doesnt allow it.
  > 
  > I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my
  > kids. I have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough,
  > I'd like to get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this
  > teaching these little bastards to cower in the corner because the
  > government says to, especially when the governments demands dont
  > match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little
  > dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he will be that pale
  > gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I dont get him
  > exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him across a
  > truck stop floor
  > 
  > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM  > wrote:
  > 
  > I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
  > So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
  > *From:* Lewis Bergman
  > *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
  > *To:* AnimalFarm M

Re: [AFMUG] SJEOOW cord

[Jason Wilson]

PDF with all of the information

http://www.chem.cmu.edu/groups/bier/procedure_files/general/powercords.pdf


Thermoplastic vs rubber jacket

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:52 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Has anyone used SJEOOW instead of SJOOW for running DC power up towers?
>
>
>
> It looks like it is more waterproof and has a wider temperature range, but
> doesn’t cost that much more.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 

Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] SJEOOW cord

[chuck]

What’s the extra O for?

For some reason, I always thought rubber was better.  ??

From: Jason Wilson 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 1:24 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SJEOOW cord

PDF with all of the information

http://www.chem.cmu.edu/groups/bier/procedure_files/general/powercords.pdf


Thermoplastic vs rubber jacket 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:52 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Has anyone used SJEOOW instead of SJOOW for running DC power up towers?



  It looks like it is more waterproof and has a wider temperature range, but 
doesn’t cost that much more.


  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 


Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] SJEOOW cord

[Ken Hohhof]

I think “outdoor” and “oil resistant”?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SJEOOW cord

 

What’s the extra O for?

 

For some reason, I always thought rubber was better.  ??

 

From: Jason Wilson 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 1:24 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SJEOOW cord

 

PDF with all of the information

 

http://www.chem.cmu.edu/groups/bier/procedure_files/general/powercords.pdf

 

 

Thermoplastic vs rubber jacket 

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:52 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Has anyone used SJEOOW instead of SJOOW for running DC power up towers?

 

It looks like it is more waterproof and has a wider temperature range, but 
doesn’t cost that much more.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 


Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com  

  _  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] SJEOOW cord

[Ken Hohhof]

Sorry, that was wrong, apparently OO means outdoor wire and jacket.  Maybe I 
don’t need both O’s and it should be SJOW or SJEOW.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:39 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SJEOOW cord

 

I think “outdoor” and “oil resistant”?

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:36 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SJEOOW cord

 

What’s the extra O for?

 

For some reason, I always thought rubber was better.  ??

 

From: Jason Wilson 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 1:24 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SJEOOW cord

 

PDF with all of the information

 

http://www.chem.cmu.edu/groups/bier/procedure_files/general/powercords.pdf

 

 

Thermoplastic vs rubber jacket 

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:52 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Has anyone used SJEOOW instead of SJOOW for running DC power up towers?

 

It looks like it is more waterproof and has a wider temperature range, but 
doesn’t cost that much more.

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 


Jason Wilson
Remotely Located
Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
530-651-1736
530-748-9608 Cell
www.remotelylocated.com  

  _  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

[Steve Jones]

What if you want to be pissed on? Should you not have the right to do that
since others dont want to be pissed on?

People are into weird shit these days.

You know somewhere, there is a group of people who went out and got
infected because they get off on this. Now they're mad because they cant
get it again. Shouldn't they have the right to not have immunity  forced
upon them?

In california, knowingly spreading HIV is a minor crime now because
otherwise it could make people look down on aids patients, but if you cough
on someone, you're a pariah. These are the days we live in.

I took the family to the nursery today, spent way to much on marigolds. The
16 month olds eyes were watering, this is from lack of exposure to anything
not sanitized in the last 3 months. The 1 month old, he's just a fat lump,
his immune system is probably so weak right now that he will puff up like a
balloon tonite. I wouldn't know, he's so fat.

50 50 on mask use. No dirty looks at my unmasked family. Probably because
gardeners tend to not be Sally rita Mae's. Nobody offered to cough or pee
on me. Was kind of disappointed.

I thought about shooting everybody there, just in case they had the disease
or were holding back a cough. But they probably would have asked me to
leave, and they have Candies, those are the best onion sets you can grow.
Protecting the community from those disease carriers just wasn't worth
risking the onions...

People are also generally fatter than I recall since the last time I saw
people. I'm wondering if they've been coming over an breast feeding off my
wife while I'm in the garage working. That's why my baby is so fat, so it
would make sense.

I dont know if I have the right to not have other people suckle from my
wife's teat. I guess the most I can ask is she rub some alcohol on them
when they're done. I dont see how they could wear a mask. Maybe that's what
the vent holes in some are. Maybe those are the people who still breast
feed.

We learn a lot about each other through this

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 2:19 PM  wrote:

> Well, I don’t wanna touch your tussis.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 12:47 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis
>
>
> You got me.  I figured Tussis was a famous ancient philosopher.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 1:30 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis
>
>
>
> Do we have a right not to be infected by others?
>
> Do we have a right not to be coughed on or sneezed on or breathed on?
>
> Do we have a right not to be pissed on or have someone smear their
> blood/feces/snot on us?
>
>
>
> If we have these rights, then that means other people must do something to
> preserve our rights.
>
> Distance, mask, not go around naked
>
>
>
> Do you have a right to not wear a mask around me?
>
> Do I have a right to ask you to wear a mask around me?
>
> How large is a personal bubble?
>
> Do you have the exclusive say as to how things go inside your bubble?
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:30 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Lol, yeah, 6monrh, then 6 months, then 6 months. Get real. Its over
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:47 AM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than we will
> know in 6 months.  It's a teeter-totter...
>
> On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> > That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest
> > availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett  > > wrote:
> >
> > Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
> > getting to everyone.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> > <
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> > <
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP 
> > 
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> 
> > *From: *"Steve Jones"  > >
> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  > >
> > *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >
> > That's why right now is the best time to get 

Re: [AFMUG] CPI certified installer in TN

[Steve Jones]

This sounds like a WISP that needs to be educated on what they are doing.
Somebody at that company really should do the certification, contracted CPI
input just begs for a disaster years down the road. I cant see any CPI
giving up their credentials to a non employer for SAS management. I know I
wouldn't.

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 8:37 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> They do know that a CPI doesn’t necessarily do installation despite the
> title, right?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Timothy Steele
> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 8:53 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] CPI certified installer in TN
>
>
>
> have a WISP asking me for a CPI Certified installer
>
>
>
> Does anyone know of a contractor in the TN area?
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Chuck Macenski]

In stock:
https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11


On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is
> that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has
> better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes
> for similar performance in some circumstances.
>
> Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are
> actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent
> 2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some
> capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem
> in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is
> questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack
> of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the
> links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different
>> value that needs to be considered.
>>
>> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could
>> represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out
>> 4' or 6' high performance dishes?
>>
>>
>> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge
>> differences in what you may need to use in your environment.
>>
>> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7
>> mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>
>> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at
>> some point...
>>
>> I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the
>> hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the
>> price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember
>> exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually
>> quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with
>> throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be
>> about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is
>> going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.
>>
>> It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous
>> dishes with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which
>> I think was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's
>> the case anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit).
>>
>> And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol
>> with the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it
>> would take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers.
>>
>> But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is
>> if congestion makes a cat A dish necessary.
>>
>> Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger
>> dishes... Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from
>> Streakwave, but that may not be the case for other stuff.
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better
>>> dishes, yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway?
>>>
>>> AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away)
>>> N to waveguide adapters
>>> Good dish
>>>
>>> vs.
>>>
>>> Better radio
>>> Good dish
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Steve Jones]

Liz is smoking hot, but since she doesnt actually come to your house for a
coordination, I use commsearch.

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 8:51 AM  wrote:

> So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep?
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
>
> I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you
> basically have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance.  So if
> you’re in a congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to
> coordinate because you won’t have the option of using single pol if only V
> or H is available.  V is usually preferred because of less rain fade, so
> sometimes H is still available.  Bottom line, might want to do frequency
> coordination before buying hardware.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Chuck McCown
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
> On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
>
> 
>
> The kit is available with high band duplexers.
>
>
>
> But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit
> form, so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should
> be fine for 7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2
> kits plus two more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly,
> coordination and licensing was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we
> did, so you'll probably end up right around $5K total.
>
>
>
> I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that
> completely depends on the area.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson 
> wrote:
>
> Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes all
> the way around.
>
>
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont 
> wrote:
>
> Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is $1500,
> need two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K (at the
> most) for the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better antennas than
> the UBNT ones in the kit, they'll be over and above. Radiowaves and KP make
> good ones (they're the same antenna, actually).
>
>
>
> 
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Owner / Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> $4K, both radios, both antennas and a license?
>
>
>
> *From:* Jesse DuPont
>
> *Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
>
>
> About $4K, 700 Mbps. Open freqs completely depends on your location. Might
> have to upgrade antennas.
>
> 
>
> *Jesse DuPont*
>
> Owner / Network Architect
> email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net
> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritynetworksllc
>
> Like us! facebook.com/celeritybroadband
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 5/8/20 3:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> What is the cost, all in, license, antennas, everything for a system that
> will do 7 miles?
>
> What throughput will that have?
>
> How likely is it to find an open frequency?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
>
>
> Jason Wilson
> Remotely Located
> Providing High Speed Internet to out of the way places.
> 530-651-1736
> 530-748-9608 Cell
> www.remotelylocated.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[chuck]

$999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the 
trimmings?

From: Chuck Macenski 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

In stock:
https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11



On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

  Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is that 
something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has better 
receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes for 
similar performance in some circumstances. 

  Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are actually 
something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent 2')... but it 
all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some capacity in heavy 
storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem in Utah. Even putting 
a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is questionable (whether for 
wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack of space), so 4' or 6' has 
pretty much been out of the question on the links I've done. Sometimes you just 
have to take what you can get. 


  On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different 
value that needs to be considered. 

If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could represent 
more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out 4' or 6' high 
performance dishes?


It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge 
differences in what you may need to use in your environment.

That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7 
mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: "Mathew Howard" 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x


Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at 
some point... 

I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the 
hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the price of 
the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember exactly how 
the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually quite a bit less 
than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with throwing the ubiquiti 
dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be about the same price for 
either radio, so the only other difference is going to be a few hundred for 
adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.

It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous dishes 
with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which I think was 
like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's the case anymore 
(and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit).

And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol with 
the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it would take 
~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers.

But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is 
if congestion makes a cat A dish necessary.


Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger 
dishes... Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from Streakwave, 
but that may not be the case for other stuff.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

  How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better 
dishes, yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway?

  AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away) 
  N to waveguide adapters
  Good dish

  vs.

  Better radio
  Good dish




  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP






--

  From: "Mathew Howard" 
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:21:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x


  I used Comsearch for the last few we did... the price wasn't much 
different at the time, but I have no idea if that's still the case. 

  Ken is right about the performance... you basically get he same 
throughput out of dual pol that higher end radios get on single pol. It only 
really matters if the area is congested, but if it is, you may need to spend 
more and get better radios.

  On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM  wrote:

So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep?

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Saturday, May 9,

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Chuck Macenski]

I just do the technical stuff.

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 3:59 PM  wrote:

> $999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the
> trimmings?
>
> *From:* Chuck Macenski
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
> In stock:
> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is
>> that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has
>> better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes
>> for similar performance in some circumstances.
>>
>> Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are
>> actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent
>> 2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some
>> capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem
>> in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is
>> questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack
>> of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the
>> links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different
>>> value that needs to be considered.
>>>
>>> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could
>>> represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out
>>> 4' or 6' high performance dishes?
>>>
>>>
>>> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge
>>> differences in what you may need to use in your environment.
>>>
>>> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a
>>> 7 mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>>
>>> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at
>>> some point...
>>>
>>> I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the
>>> hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the
>>> price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember
>>> exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually
>>> quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with
>>> throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be
>>> about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is
>>> going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.
>>>
>>> It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous
>>> dishes with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which
>>> I think was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's
>>> the case anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit).
>>>
>>> And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol
>>> with the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it
>>> would take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers.
>>>
>>> But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link
>>> is if congestion makes a cat A dish necessary.
>>>
>>> Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger
>>> dishes... Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from
>>> Streakwave, but that may not be the case for other stuff.
>>>
>>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>>
 How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better
 dishes, yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway?

 AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away)
 N to waveguide adapters
 Good dish

 vs.

 Better radio
 Good dish



 -
 Mike Hammett
 Intelligent Computing Solutions 
 
 

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Cassidy B. Larson]

You still gotta buy two “dish+radio kits”, one for each side:

https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af11-complete-hb

And a second duplexer per side. 



> On May 9, 2020, at 2:58 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> $999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the 
> trimmings?
>  
> From: Chuck Macenski <>
> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>  
> In stock:
> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11 
> 
>  
>  
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard > wrote:
>> Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is 
>> that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has 
>> better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes 
>> for similar performance in some circumstances.
>>  
>> Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are actually 
>> something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent 2')... but it 
>> all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some capacity in 
>> heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem in Utah. Even 
>> putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is questionable 
>> (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack of space), so 
>> 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the links I've done. 
>> Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
>>  
>>  
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett > wrote:
>>> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different 
>>> value that needs to be considered.
>>>  
>>> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could represent 
>>> more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out 4' or 6' 
>>> high performance dishes?
>>>  
>>>  
>>> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge 
>>> differences in what you may need to use in your environment.
>>>  
>>> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7 
>>> mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>>   
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>>   
>>>  
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>>  
>>> From: "Mathew Howard" >
>>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" >
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>> 
>>> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at 
>>> some point...
>>>  
>>> I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the 
>>> hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the 
>>> price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember 
>>> exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually 
>>> quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with 
>>> throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be 
>>> about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is 
>>> going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.
>>>  
>>> It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous dishes 
>>> with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which I think 
>>> was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's the case 
>>> anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit).
>>>  
>>> And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol with 
>>> the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it would 
>>> take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers.
>>>  
>>> But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is 
>>> if congestion makes a cat A dish necessary.
>>>  
>>> Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger 
>>> dishes... Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from 
>>> Streakwave, but that may not be the case for other stuff.
>>>  
>>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett > wrote:
 How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better 
 dishes, yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway?
 
 AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away)
 N to waveguide adapters
>

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Ken Hohhof]

Somebody’s got to pay the salaries of the people who unbox the kits, break them 
up into individual radios, and throw the antennas in the dumpster.  Ordinarily 
you would pay an eBay seller to do this.  Maybe it’s like the “chicken tax” and 
Ford pulling the back seats out of new Transit Connect vans.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-strange-case-of-fords-attempt-to-avoid-thechicken-tax/2018/07/06/643624fa-796a-11e8-8df3-007495a78738_story.html

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:58 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

$999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the 
trimmings?

 

From: Chuck Macenski 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

 

In stock:

https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11

 

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is that 
something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has better 
receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes for 
similar performance in some circumstances. 

 

Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are actually 
something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent 2')... but it 
all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some capacity in heavy 
storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem in Utah. Even putting 
a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is questionable (whether for 
wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack of space), so 4' or 6' has 
pretty much been out of the question on the links I've done. Sometimes you just 
have to take what you can get. 

 

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different value 
that needs to be considered. 

 

If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could represent 
more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out 4' or 6' high 
performance dishes?

 

 

It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge 
differences in what you may need to use in your environment.

 

That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7 mile 
link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: "Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> >
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x

Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at some 
point... 

 

I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the 
hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the price of 
the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember exactly how 
the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually quite a bit less 
than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with throwing the ubiquiti 
dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be about the same price for 
either radio, so the only other difference is going to be a few hundred for 
adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.

 

It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous dishes with 
the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which I think was like 
$140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's the case anymore (and 
it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit).

 

And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol with the 
AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it would take 
~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers.

 

But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is if 
congestion makes a cat A dish necessary.

 

Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger dishes... 
Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from Streakwave, but that 
may not be the case for other stuff.

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote:

How much more is it, though, for better radios if 

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Chuck Macenski]

Cassidy: No, you can buy the stand-alone radio (unless I am missing
something)
https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Somebody’s got to pay the salaries of the people who unbox the kits, break
> them up into individual radios, and throw the antennas in the dumpster.
> Ordinarily you would pay an eBay seller to do this.  Maybe it’s like the
> “chicken tax” and Ford pulling the back seats out of new Transit Connect
> vans.
>
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-strange-case-of-fords-attempt-to-avoid-thechicken-tax/2018/07/06/643624fa-796a-11e8-8df3-007495a78738_story.html
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:58 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
>
>
> $999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the
> trimmings?
>
>
>
> *From:* Chuck Macenski
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
>
>
> In stock:
>
> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
> Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is
> that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has
> better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes
> for similar performance in some circumstances.
>
>
>
> Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are
> actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent
> 2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some
> capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem
> in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is
> questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack
> of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the
> links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different
> value that needs to be considered.
>
>
>
> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could
> represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out
> 4' or 6' high performance dishes?
>
>
>
>
>
> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge
> differences in what you may need to use in your environment.
>
>
>
> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7
> mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
>
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>
> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at
> some point...
>
>
>
> I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the
> hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the
> price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember
> exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually
> quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with
> throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be
> about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is
> going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.
>
>
>
> It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous dishes
> with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which I think
> was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's the case
> anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit).
>
>
>
> And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol
> with the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it
> would take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers.
>
>
>
> But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is
> if congestion makes a cat A dish necessary.
>
>
>
> Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Cassidy B. Larson]

Yeah we get those ourselves. Chuck was asking where the $1500 all-in kit was. 
The $1500 link I posted is only one side of the link, from what I read plus one 
would need another duplexer for each side.

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 9, 2020, at 15:27, Chuck Macenski  wrote:
> 
> 
> Cassidy: No, you can buy the stand-alone radio (unless I am missing something)
> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
> 
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> Somebody’s got to pay the salaries of the people who unbox the kits, break 
>> them up into individual radios, and throw the antennas in the dumpster.  
>> Ordinarily you would pay an eBay seller to do this.  Maybe it’s like the 
>> “chicken tax” and Ford pulling the back seats out of new Transit Connect 
>> vans.
>> 
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-strange-case-of-fords-attempt-to-avoid-thechicken-tax/2018/07/06/643624fa-796a-11e8-8df3-007495a78738_story.html
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:58 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> $999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the 
>> trimmings?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Chuck Macenski
>> 
>> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM
>> 
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> In stock:
>> 
>> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>> 
>> Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is 
>> that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has 
>> better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes 
>> for similar performance in some circumstances.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are actually 
>> something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent 2')... but it 
>> all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some capacity in 
>> heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem in Utah. Even 
>> putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is questionable 
>> (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack of space), so 
>> 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the links I've done. 
>> Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>> 
>> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different 
>> value that needs to be considered.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could represent 
>> more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out 4' or 6' 
>> high performance dishes?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge 
>> differences in what you may need to use in your environment.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7 
>> mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> From: "Mathew Howard" 
>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>> 
>> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at some 
>> point...
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the 
>> hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the price 
>> of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember 
>> exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually 
>> quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with 
>> throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be 
>> about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is going 
>> to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous dishes 
>> with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which I think 
>> was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's the case 
>> anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit).
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol with 
>> the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it would 
>> take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is if 
>> congestion makes a cat A dish necessary.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger 
>> dish

Re: [AFMUG] af11x

[Chuck Macenski]

oops :)

On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:57 PM Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> Yeah we get those ourselves. Chuck was asking where the $1500 all-in kit
> was. The $1500 link I posted is only one side of the link, from what I read
> plus one would need another duplexer for each side.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 9, 2020, at 15:27, Chuck Macenski  wrote:
>
> 
> Cassidy: No, you can buy the stand-alone radio (unless I am missing
> something)
> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 4:13 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Somebody’s got to pay the salaries of the people who unbox the kits,
>> break them up into individual radios, and throw the antennas in the
>> dumpster.  Ordinarily you would pay an eBay seller to do this.  Maybe it’s
>> like the “chicken tax” and Ford pulling the back seats out of new Transit
>> Connect vans.
>>
>>
>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-strange-case-of-fords-attempt-to-avoid-thechicken-tax/2018/07/06/643624fa-796a-11e8-8df3-007495a78738_story.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:58 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>
>>
>>
>> $999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the
>> trimmings?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Chuck Macenski
>>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM
>>
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>
>>
>>
>> In stock:
>>
>> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is
>> that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has
>> better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes
>> for similar performance in some circumstances.
>>
>>
>>
>> Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are
>> actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent
>> 2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some
>> capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem
>> in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is
>> questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack
>> of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the
>> links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>> I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different
>> value that needs to be considered.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could
>> represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out
>> 4' or 6' high performance dishes?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge
>> differences in what you may need to use in your environment.
>>
>>
>>
>> That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7
>> mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>>
>> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] af11x
>>
>> Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at
>> some point...
>>
>>
>>
>> I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the
>> hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the
>> price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember
>> exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually
>> quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with
>> throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be
>> about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is
>> going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish.
>>
>>
>>
>> It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous
>> dishes with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which
>> I think was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I do

Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

[Robert]

I remember someone talking about the right to swing your arms around all 
you want just until it strikes my nose, then your "rights" have abridged 
mine.  ( Or your rights get the response from my left )...   That was 
what prompted my question, actually...


On 5/9/20 11:30 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Do we have a right not to be infected by others?
Do we have a right not to be coughed on or sneezed on or breathed on?
Do we have a right not to be pissed on or have someone smear their 
blood/feces/snot on us?
If we have these rights, then that means other people must do 
something to preserve our rights.

Distance, mask, not go around naked
Do you have a right to not wear a mask around me?
Do I have a right to ask you to wear a mask around me?
How large is a personal bubble?
Do you have the exclusive say as to how things go inside your bubble?
*From:* Steve Jones
*Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:30 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
Lol, yeah, 6monrh, then 6 months, then 6 months. Get real. Its over
On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:47 AM Robert Andrews  
wrote:


And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than
we will
know in 6 months.  It's a teeter-totter...

On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the
highest
> availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett  > wrote:
>
> Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's
reach from
> getting to everyone.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>


> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>


> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
>

> *From: *"Steve Jones"  >
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  >
> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
> That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the
> talking heads keep saying that we all will eventually get
this, and
> they wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty
and 60
> percent of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to
get it.
> Get it in the fall when it resources (again, matt and the
talking
> heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and
> survivability drops.
>  From day one I've said infection centers would be the
absolute best
> tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically
screened
> people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its
> effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
> Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you
immune"
> which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other
> viruses. But guess what that means. It means that there will
never
> be a vaccine since that's what vaccines to (make your body think
> you've had the disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot
have it
> both ways, science doesnt allow it.
>
> I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my
> kids. I have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of
dough,
> I'd like to get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this
> teaching these little bastards to cower in the corner
because the
> government says to, especially when the governments demands dont
> match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little
> dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he will be that
pale
> gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I dont
get him
> exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him
across a
> truck stop floor
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM  > wrote:
>
> I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
> So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with
grandkids.
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>   

Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

[chuck]

So you can cough at me from 6 feet away I guess.  

From: Robert 
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 5:17 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

I remember someone talking about the right to swing your arms around all you 
want just until it strikes my nose, then your "rights" have abridged mine.  ( 
Or your rights get the response from my left )...   That was what prompted my 
question, actually...


On 5/9/20 11:30 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Do we have a right not to be infected by others?
  Do we have a right not to be coughed on or sneezed on or breathed on?
  Do we have a right not to be pissed on or have someone smear their 
blood/feces/snot on us?

  If we have these rights, then that means other people must do something to 
preserve our rights.
  Distance, mask, not go around naked

  Do you have a right to not wear a mask around me?
  Do I have a right to ask you to wear a mask around me?
  How large is a personal bubble?  
  Do you have the exclusive say as to how things go inside your bubble?

  From: Steve Jones 
  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:30 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

  Lol, yeah, 6monrh, then 6 months, then 6 months. Get real. Its over

  On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:47 AM Robert Andrews  wrote:

And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than we will 
know in 6 months.  It's a teeter-totter...

On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest 
> availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.
> 
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett  > wrote:
> 
> Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
> getting to everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 

> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 

> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

> *From: *"Steve Jones"  >
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  >
> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> 
> That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the
> talking heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and
> they wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60
> percent of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it.
> Get it in the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking
> heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and
> survivability drops.
>  From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best
> tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened
> people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its
> effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
> Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune"
> which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other
> viruses. But guess what that means. It means that there will never
> be a vaccine since that's what vaccines to (make your body think
> you've had the disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it
> both ways, science doesnt allow it.
> 
> I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my
> kids. I have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough,
> I'd like to get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this
> teaching these little bastards to cower in the corner because the
> government says to, especially when the governments demands dont
> match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little
> dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he will be that pale
> gray sickly kid with a doctors note for PE soon if I dont get him
> exposed to some community germs. I'm about to go drag him across a
> truck stop floor
> 
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM  > wrote:
> 
> I have not had nearly enough time with my grandk

Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

[Ken Hohhof]

I have this recollection of a comic or movie character who would say “I’ll give 
you your rights … and your lefts!” or something like that.  I was thinking 
maybe Dick Tracy.  But the Google can’t find it, so I must be mistaken.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 6:47 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

 

So you can cough at me from 6 feet away I guess.  

 

From: Robert 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 5:17 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

 

I remember someone talking about the right to swing your arms around all you 
want just until it strikes my nose, then your "rights" have abridged mine.  ( 
Or your rights get the response from my left )...   That was what prompted my 
question, actually...

On 5/9/20 11:30 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Do we have a right not to be infected by others?

Do we have a right not to be coughed on or sneezed on or breathed on?

Do we have a right not to be pissed on or have someone smear their 
blood/feces/snot on us?

 

If we have these rights, then that means other people must do something to 
preserve our rights.

Distance, mask, not go around naked

 

Do you have a right to not wear a mask around me?

Do I have a right to ask you to wear a mask around me?

How large is a personal bubble?  

Do you have the exclusive say as to how things go inside your bubble?

 

From: Steve Jones 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:30 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

 

Lol, yeah, 6monrh, then 6 months, then 6 months. Get real. Its over

 

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:47 AM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than we will 
know in 6 months.  It's a teeter-totter...

On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest 
> availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.
> 
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett   
> > wrote:
> 
> Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
> getting to everyone.
> 
> 
> 
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *From: *"Steve Jones"   
> >
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"   
> >
> *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> 
> That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the
> talking heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and
> they wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60
> percent of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it.
> Get it in the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking
> heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and
> survivability drops.
>  From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best
> tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened
> people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its
> effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
> Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune"
> which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other
> viruses. But guess what that means. It means that there will never
> be a vaccine since that's what vaccines to (make your body think
> you've had the disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it
> both ways, science doesnt allow it.
> 
> I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my
> kids. I have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough,
> I'd like to get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this
> teaching these little bastards to cower in the corner because the
> government says to, especially when the governments demands dont
> match the so called science they're basing it on. And the little
> dough ball isnt developing an immune system, he

Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

[Steve Jones]

It was me. I said it to Archie

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 6:59 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I have this recollection of a comic or movie character who would say “I’ll
> give you your rights … and your lefts!” or something like that.  I was
> thinking maybe Dick Tracy.  But the Google can’t find it, so I must be
> mistaken.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 6:47 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis
>
>
>
> So you can cough at me from 6 feet away I guess.
>
>
>
> *From:* Robert
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 5:17 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis
>
>
>
> I remember someone talking about the right to swing your arms around all
> you want just until it strikes my nose, then your "rights" have abridged
> mine.  ( Or your rights get the response from my left )...   That was what
> prompted my question, actually...
>
> On 5/9/20 11:30 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Do we have a right not to be infected by others?
>
> Do we have a right not to be coughed on or sneezed on or breathed on?
>
> Do we have a right not to be pissed on or have someone smear their
> blood/feces/snot on us?
>
>
>
> If we have these rights, then that means other people must do something to
> preserve our rights.
>
> Distance, mask, not go around naked
>
>
>
> Do you have a right to not wear a mask around me?
>
> Do I have a right to ask you to wear a mask around me?
>
> How large is a personal bubble?
>
> Do you have the exclusive say as to how things go inside your bubble?
>
>
>
> *From:* Steve Jones
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:30 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>
>
>
> Lol, yeah, 6monrh, then 6 months, then 6 months. Get real. Its over
>
>
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:47 AM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> And probably way less knowledge of how to treat sick people than we will
> know in 6 months.  It's a teeter-totter...
>
> On 05/09/2020 09:32 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> > That's why right now is the best time to get it. We have the highest
> > availability of healthcare resources in my entire lifetime.
> >
> > On Sat, May 9, 2020, 10:07 AM Mike Hammett  > >
> wrote:
> >
> > Most of us will need to get it (or vaccines) to stop it's reach from
> > getting to everyone.
> >
> >
> >
> > -
> > Mike Hammett
> > Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> > <
> https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><
> https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> > Midwest Internet Exchange 
> > <
> https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><
> https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> > The Brothers WISP 
> > 
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> 
> > *From: *"Steve Jones"  >  >>
> > *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  > >
> > *Sent: *Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:50:29 AM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
> >
> > That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the
> > talking heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and
> > they wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60
> > percent of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it.
> > Get it in the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking
> > heads have guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and
> > survivability drops.
> >  From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best
> > tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened
> > people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its
> > effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
> > Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune"
> > which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other
> > viruses. But guess what that means. It means that there will never
> > be a vaccine since that's what vaccines to (make your body think
> > you've had the disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it
> > both ways, science doesnt allow it.
> >
> > I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my
> > kids. I have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough,
> > I'd like to get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this
> > teaching these little bastards to cower in the corner because the
> > government says to, especially when the governments demands dont
> 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Chuck Norris said something close to that in "Invasion USA"
"Hit You With So Many Rights
  You'll Beg For A Left"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pzpf4MLGv4

bp



On 5/9/2020 4:58 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
I have this recollection of a comic or
  movie character who would say “I’ll give you your rights … and
  your lefts!” or something like that.  I was thinking maybe
  Dick Tracy.  But the Google can’t find it, so I must be
  mistaken.
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 6:47 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis
  

 

  

  So you can cough
  at me from 6 feet away I guess.  


  

   


  
From:
Robert 
  
  
Sent:
Saturday, May 9, 2020 5:17 PM
  
  
To:
af@af.afmug.com 
  
  
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT Philosopy of Tussis
  

  
  
 
  


  I remember
someone talking about the right to swing your arms
around all you want just until it strikes my nose,
then your "rights" have abridged mine.  ( Or your
rights get the response from my left )...   That was
what prompted my question, actually...
  
On 5/9/20 11:30
AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
  
  

  

  Do we
  have a right not to be infected by others?


  Do we
  have a right not to be coughed on or sneezed
  on or breathed on?


  Do we
  have a right not to be pissed on or have
  someone smear their blood/feces/snot on us?


   


  If we
  have these rights, then that means other
  people must do something to preserve our
  rights.


  Distance,
  mask, not go around naked


   


  Do you
  have a right to not wear a mask around me?


  Do I have
  a right to ask you to wear a mask around me?


  How large
  is a personal bubble?  


  Do you
  have the exclusive say as to how things go
  inside your bubble?


  

   


  
From:
Steve Jones 
  
  
Sent:
Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:30 AM
  
  
To:
AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  
  
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
  

  
  
 
  


  
Lol,
yeah, 6monrh, then 6 months, then 6 months.
Get real. Its over
  
  
 
  
  

  On
 

[AFMUG] Eats

[Steve Jones]

Stuffed bacon wrapped mushrooms and grilled pork loin.
I dont like barbeque sauce on meat but recently discovered if you do 2
parts vinegar and 1 part sweet baby Ray's you get a thin film of heaven.
This is my leftovers cause there was no way I was gonna stop eating those
mushrooms long enough to take a pic

Fine diced onion, garlic and chive greens, shredded mozzarella and
provolone in cream cheese. Grill on foil til its rendered the grease, dump
the grease on the charcoal til the flame burns off and then set in a foil
pan in the grill with the lid on while the pork cooks. It's like the first
time she reached in and touched it with every bite.
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Eats

[David Coudron]

Imma gonna need to try those.

Get Outlook for iOS

From: AF  on behalf of Steve Jones 

Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:21:25 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Eats

Forgot the food

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 8:04 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Stuffed bacon wrapped mushrooms and grilled pork loin.
I dont like barbeque sauce on meat but recently discovered if you do 2 parts 
vinegar and 1 part sweet baby Ray's you get a thin film of heaven.
This is my leftovers cause there was no way I was gonna stop eating those 
mushrooms long enough to take a pic

Fine diced onion, garlic and chive greens, shredded mozzarella and provolone in 
cream cheese. Grill on foil til its rendered the grease, dump the grease on the 
charcoal til the flame burns off and then set in a foil pan in the grill with 
the lid on while the pork cooks. It's like the first time she reached in and 
touched it with every bite.
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Eats

[Jaime Solorza]

Stealing it

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 7:22 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

> Forgot the food
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 8:04 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Stuffed bacon wrapped mushrooms and grilled pork loin.
>> I dont like barbeque sauce on meat but recently discovered if you do 2
>> parts vinegar and 1 part sweet baby Ray's you get a thin film of heaven.
>> This is my leftovers cause there was no way I was gonna stop eating those
>> mushrooms long enough to take a pic
>>
>> Fine diced onion, garlic and chive greens, shredded mozzarella and
>> provolone in cream cheese. Grill on foil til its rendered the grease, dump
>> the grease on the charcoal til the flame burns off and then set in a foil
>> pan in the grill with the lid on while the pork cooks. It's like the first
>> time she reached in and touched it with every bite.
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Eats

[Steve Jones]

Jaime taking a recipe is similar to jesus taking advice on christianity

On Sat, May 9, 2020, 11:44 PM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Stealing it
>
> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 7:22 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Forgot the food
>>
>> On Sat, May 9, 2020, 8:04 PM Steve Jones 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Stuffed bacon wrapped mushrooms and grilled pork loin.
>>> I dont like barbeque sauce on meat but recently discovered if you do 2
>>> parts vinegar and 1 part sweet baby Ray's you get a thin film of heaven.
>>> This is my leftovers cause there was no way I was gonna stop eating
>>> those mushrooms long enough to take a pic
>>>
>>> Fine diced onion, garlic and chive greens, shredded mozzarella and
>>> provolone in cream cheese. Grill on foil til its rendered the grease, dump
>>> the grease on the charcoal til the flame burns off and then set in a foil
>>> pan in the grill with the lid on while the pork cooks. It's like the first
>>> time she reached in and touched it with every bite.
>>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com