Somebody’s got to pay the salaries of the people who unbox the kits, break them up into individual radios, and throw the antennas in the dumpster. Ordinarily you would pay an eBay seller to do this. Maybe it’s like the “chicken tax” and Ford pulling the back seats out of new Transit Connect vans.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/the-strange-case-of-fords-attempt-to-avoid-thechicken-tax/2018/07/06/643624fa-796a-11e8-8df3-007495a78738_story.html From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 3:58 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x $999 for a single radio, where a kit is $1500 for two radios and all the trimmings? From: Chuck Macenski Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 2:44 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x In stock: https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11 On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 12:10 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote: Well, right, that's true, and another thing that you need to consider is that something like an Aviat will run at higher TX power, and probably has better receive sensitivity, meaning you might be able to use smaller dishes for similar performance in some circumstances. Using 2 foots is doable on 7 miles around here (the ubnt dishes are actually something like 32", but the gain is more in line with a decent 2')... but it all depends on what your requirements are. It will lose some capacity in heavy storms, but I wouldn't expect that to be a major problem in Utah. Even putting a 3' dish on some structures we're installing on is questionable (whether for wind load reasons, appearance or even just lack of space), so 4' or 6' has pretty much been out of the question on the links I've done. Sometimes you just have to take what you can get. On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 11:34 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote: I didn't mean to imply it would be the same price, but it's a different value that needs to be considered. If you need larger or higher quality dishes, they very well could represent more cost than the electronics in either scenario. Ever price out 4' or 6' high performance dishes? It's not just cat A vs. cat b, but within cat A there are still huge differences in what you may need to use in your environment. That said, in our area, I can't imagine using less than a 3' dish for a 7 mile link in 11 GHz. I'd be happier with a 4'. ----- Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _____ From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 11:18:56 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x Well, in theory, the AF11 will be available without the dishes again at some point... I think an Aviat single transceiver link came out to about $6k for the hardware, with 2' dishes when I priced it, so that's nearly double the price of the AF11. If we say $1k of that is in the dishes (I don't remember exactly how the pricing broke down, but I think the dishes were actually quite a bit less than that), that's still an almost $2k difference (with throwing the ubiquiti dishes away)... presumably the better dishes will be about the same price for either radio, so the only other difference is going to be a few hundred for adapters to connect the AF11 to a real dish. It didn't used to be too big of a difference in price to use Jirous dishes with the AF11, because even though you had to buy an adapter (which I think was like $140), the dishes were cheaper, but I don't think that's the case anymore (and it obvious isn't if you can only get the kit). And of course, if you only need ~350Mbps, you could just do single pol with the AF11, and there'd be no need to go with better radios... and it would take ~$350 off the price, since you don't need the extra duplexers. But the only reason I'd see you needing better dishes on a 7 mile link is if congestion makes a cat A dish necessary. Shipping cost also starts to add up when you're dealing with bigger dishes... Chuck could probably pick up the AF11 kits locally from Streakwave, but that may not be the case for other stuff. On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 9:44 AM Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net <mailto:af...@ics-il.net> > wrote: How much more is it, though, for better radios if you need the better dishes, yet have to buy the Ubiquiti dishes anyway? AF11 kit with dishes (that you'll just throw away) N to waveguide adapters Good dish vs. Better radio Good dish ----- Mike Hammett <http://www.ics-il.com/> Intelligent Computing Solutions <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> The Brothers WISP <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> _____ From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 9:21:00 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x I used Comsearch for the last few we did... the price wasn't much different at the time, but I have no idea if that's still the case. Ken is right about the performance... you basically get he same throughput out of dual pol that higher end radios get on single pol. It only really matters if the area is congested, but if it is, you may need to spend more and get better radios. On Sat, May 9, 2020 at 8:51 AM <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote: So is Liz still the best value for freq coordination and license prep? From: Ken Hohhof Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:34 AM To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x I don’t have any AF11X and may be remembering wrong, but I think you basically have to coordinate dual pol, for single pol performance. So if you’re in a congested area, it might be marginally more difficult to coordinate because you won’t have the option of using single pol if only V or H is available. V is usually preferred because of less rain fade, so sometimes H is still available. Bottom line, might want to do frequency coordination before buying hardware. From: AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf Of Chuck McCown Sent: Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:15 AM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group <af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com> > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x Thanks. Sent from my iPhone On May 8, 2020, at 11:01 PM, Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com <mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote: The kit is available with high band duplexers. But yeah, last I checked, the AF11 is still only in stock anywhere in kit form, so it makes sense to just go with the Ubiquiti dishes (which should be fine for 7 miles anyway), So you'd be at about $3200 for the hardware (2 kits plus two more duplexers to do mimo). If I remember correctly, coordination and licensing was somewhere around $1600 on the last link we did, so you'll probably end up right around $5K total. I haven't ever had any problem finding an open frequency, but that completely depends on the area. On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 6:15 PM Jason Wilson <ja...@remotelylocated.com <mailto:ja...@remotelylocated.com> > wrote: Additionally if you get a high band allotment you’ll need new duplexes all the way around. On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 3:48 PM Jesse DuPont <jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net <mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> > wrote: Yes. The AF11x "kit" (two radios, two duplexers, two antennas) is $1500, need two more duplexers if doing MIMO - another $500 ish. Then $2K (at the most) for the coordination/licensing fees. If you want better antennas than the UBNT ones in the kit, they'll be over and above. Radiowaves and KP make good ones (they're the same antenna, actually). Jesse DuPont Owner / Network Architect email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net <mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC Like us! facebook.com/ <http://facebook.com/> celeritynetworksllc Like us! facebook.com/ <http://facebook.com/> celeritybroadband <celeritynetworks-GIF.gif> On 5/8/20 4:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: $4K, both radios, both antennas and a license? From: Jesse DuPont Sent: Friday, May 8, 2020 4:39 PM To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] af11x About $4K, 700 Mbps. Open freqs completely depends on your location. Might have to upgrade antennas. Jesse DuPont Owner / Network Architect email: jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net <mailto:jesse.dup...@celeritycorp.net> Celerity Networks LLC / Celerity Broadband LLC Like us! facebook.com/ <http://facebook.com/> celeritynetworksllc Like us! facebook.com/ <http://facebook.com/> celeritybroadband <celeritynetworks-GIF.gif> On 5/8/20 3:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: What is the cost, all in, license, antennas, everything for a system that will do 7 miles? What throughput will that have? 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