> On Feb 8, 2025, at 3:48 PM, sartesian via groups.io
> wrote:
>
> Practical example?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Labor_Defense
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You've moved the discussion from tactics and into strategy and program with
your exposition on a "united front" around civil liberties, that somehow sees
an advantage in separating class content, and class analysis from both the
attack and defense. Civil liberties are not a thing in itself, no
> On Feb 8, 2025, at 9:44 AM, sartesian via groups.io
> wrote:
>
> Disruptions are a tactic, where sometimes the negatives outweigh the gain and
> vice-versa. Rejecting disruption categorically can mean missing tremendous
> opportunities to expose issues-- like the sit-ins a lunch counters
Part of the problem might be in generalizing from a small "sample size." The
massive anti-war marches in the 60s (and early 70s, but particularly the 60s)
were preceded by countless, smaller, and frequently more militant, disruptive,
actions which "publicized" the conflict and made the bigger d
> On Feb 8, 2025, at 8:43 AM, sartesian via groups.io
> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure that that's accurate, or one precludes the other. or that
> there's any tactic that doesn't require direct action initiated by a small
> group in order to gain more participation, particularly when police enforc
On Sat, Feb 8, 2025 at 12:53 AM, Mark Baugher wrote:
>
> The tactic of shutting down traffic reflects the mistaken strategy of
> trying to force Democratic Party politicians to act at the expense of
> expanding the mass appeal of the movement. For many, it's a stunt to get
> more media coverage o
> On Feb 7, 2025, at 5:59 PM, Charlie via groups.io
> wrote:
>
> My impression (not evidence) is that compared with the 1960s today's
> demonstrators are more representative today of the working class as a whole
> in terms of their socio-economic position.
The Civil Rights Movement of the
M.G.: Today’s demonstrators are more alienated from the working class mainstream
I pointed out he gave no evidence.
M.B. offers: They shut down freeways where working people are forced to commute
to and from work.
The percentage of protesters over the last 16 months who got onto freeways
strik
My impression - and it is only that - is based on my local experience and
conversations with the activists who steadfastly came out week after week
before the ceasefire. Our numbers remained constant but did not grow apace with
the mounting popular sentiment against the genocide in Gaza. IMO thi
> On Feb 7, 2025, at 1:59 PM, Charlie via groups.io
> wrote:
>
> Evidence? M.G. knows.
They shut down freeways where working people are forced to commute to and from
work.
Mark
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On Fri, Feb 7, 2025 at 02:11 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> Today’s demonstrators are more alienated from the working class mainstream
Evidence? M.G. knows.
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On Thu, Feb 6, 2025 at 11:00 PM, Mark Baugher wrote:
>
> What about our strategy and tactics, which includes dressing up in masks
> and keffiyehs, carrying a foreign flag, and chanting to free a place that
> cannot be found on a map?
They're a throwback to the Vietnam antiwar marches and the cha
Sartesian - a perfectly reasonable and apt query. I have been thinking, and I
continue (presumably like many here) to do so. I will try to frame it shortly.
H
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whoops -- this was in reply to another thread.
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> On Feb 6, 2025, at 3:47 PM, hari kumar via groups.io
> wrote:
>
> I simply do not understand why there are some highly personal and sectarian
> remarks flying around. Is this a time for this?
The Subject line of this thread says it all. The longest threads that garner
the most engagemen
>
> 1. How does the productivity of labor, increased material output in the
> same or reduced time, increase the rate of surplus value given the fact
> that no additional new value is created, nor is the rate of new value
> created has not change? 2 hours is 2 hours whether 50 mousetraps or 100
> m
Well, Hari, what concretely in terms of agitational work, slogans, themes,
demands do you suggest?
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On Thu, Feb 6, 2025 at 03:06 PM, wrote:
>
> Constitutionality is of no concern to the reactionary bourgeoisie.
I fully agree that the reactionary bourgeoisie is not wedded in principle to
constitutional principles or institutions (aka bourgeois democracy), though we
might be in disagreement a
I do not know if this following remark fits onto the title of the strand
exactly. On the other hand it is sparked by comments under this title. The
remark could be considered as a 'philosophical' comment, or perhaps more as a
form of a lament.
At this stage as the USA state structure is being '
On Thu, Feb 6, 2025 at 06:20 PM, Michael Meeropol wrote:
>
> but my favorite definition of a "Marxist" was from Georg Luckas (sp?) who
> claimed "orthodoxy in Marxism relates only to METHOD."
As in most other things having to do with the content of Marx's work, Lukacs is
also wrong in this. Th
On Thu, Feb 6, 2025 at 03:57 PM, Marv Gandall wrote:
>
> *within the current constitutional framework*
All you need to know about the accuracy of Marv's analysis, Constitutionality
is of no concern to the reactionary bourgeoisie. MG remains the undisputed
master of self-delusion
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Many apologies for stating the obvious --- but my favorite definition of a
"Marxist" was from Georg Luckas (sp?) who claimed "orthodoxy in Marxism
relates only to METHOD."
looking for contradictions and attempting to get to the roots behind the
facades --- The Commodity Fetishism section of the be
Where did he say uncritical support? It’s starkly between people being able
to live and killing people by their benefits cut. I don’t think the latter
is a leftist thing.
On Tuesday, February 4, 2025, Mark Lause via groups.io wrote:
> Right. People critical of the uncritical support Honest John
M.G. pulls out his handbook of metaphysical logic-chopping. He tells us Trump
is not a fascist because he has not abolished opposition parties. He tells us
in bold print that Trump's reactionary bourgeoisie works *within the
constitutional framework*.
First the word, then the facts. Fascism is
On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 08:32 PM, Douglas W. Rae wrote:
>
> It’s a modern day version of the 18th Brumaire of Louis Napoleon.
The reference to Trump as a Bonapartist or even a fascist has become
commonplace on the left, and is misleading as to the nature of both. Essential
to each is abolition
No doubt Reimann started off as most of us here who see it as a principle
that Marxists do not cross class lines to support the boss class, but
now he follows
the statement of Engels that “the revolution is a great devourer” of one’s
energies – especially here in the belly of the beast. He endorsed
On Wed, Feb 5, 2025 at 08:27 AM, John Reimann wrote:
>
> John Edmundnson justifies the "Marxists" doing nothing to oppose/warn
> against or organize against Trump
Of course, that's not the issue. Comrade Edmundson among others has warned,
agitated, opposed Trump. Reimann has his knickers all
This Marxist voted Dem with great difficulty and disgust to hold back the MAGA
fascists. That said, at least the mask is now off the beast of ugly corporate
oligarchy. Beyond the added division of finger-pointing and accusations, we can
all now see who is who without the shallow illusion Democr
John Edmundnson justifies the "Marxists" doing nothing to oppose/warn
against or organize against Trump by writing: "The enemy is not Trump and
his self serving cabal. It's the whole damned system." The reality is that
he is really speaking for many on this list. He/they should read a little
histor
Yes. It’s a modern day version of the 18th Brumaire of Louis Napoleon.
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On Tuesday, February 4, 2025, 5:02 PM, John Reimann via groups.io
<1999wildcat=gmail@groups.io> wrote:
Trump is now saying openly that the Palestinians in Gaza should leave and that
Gaz
There seems to be only one person on this list who keeps calling out the
"so called "Marxists" on this list" for not having supported the Democrats.
It's like he thinks he's Lenin in the early 20th century, excoriating his
enemies in the RSDLP. Only at least Lenin was arguing in the context of an
a
Come on folks there are legitimate differences of opinion here ---
"both sides" can find quotes from Marx to support his/here position ---
there are no certainties in the world a little humility wouldn;t hurt
On Tue, Feb 4, 2025 at 8:23 PM Dennis Brasky via groups.io wrote:
> Rei
Hi John!
Great to hear from you. I just wanted to say that I can certainly empathize
with your frustration about certain prominent left-wing intellectuals who
postured that there was no discernable difference between the policies of
Harris and Trump regarding Israel/Palestine...or much else, in
Right. People critical of the uncritical support Honest John wanted us to
extend to the Democrats never warned about Trump and MAGA.
On Tue, Feb 4, 2025, 7:56 PM John Edmundson via groups.io wrote:
> The people you disparage as "Marxists" or "those on this list who think
> they are Marxists" d
The people you disparage as "Marxists" or "those on this list who think
they are Marxists" didn't call for a vote for Trump; they just argued
against lesser evilism and illusions in the Democratic Party. It's hard to
do that while simultaneously calling on people to vote for Democratic Party
lesser
Reimann - why didn’t you praise Biden and Harris to Palestinians in Gaza -
those who were not killed by US bombs - as the lesser evil? Perhaps you wanted
to avoid being spat upon!
“Show me who your friends are and I’ll know who you are” - old political saying.
> On Feb 4, 2025, at 8:02 PM, John
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