Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

[Matt Hoppes]

Exactly. Give it a few more weeks. It hasn’t had much time in the U. S. Yet. 

> On Feb 23, 2020, at 2:05 PM, Robert  wrote:
> 
> Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise ship, I'm 
> pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe case percentage of 
> 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs .1 percent for flu is apples 
> and oranges.   But you keep telling yourself what makes you feel safe.   Keep 
> drinking the koolaid while the long storage food supplies are bought up.( 
> check on Amazon what's still available vs. sold out ).   Let's see what the   
> numbers are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what modern medicine can do. 
>   
> 
>> On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> [TINHATOFF]
>> 
>> It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning to look 
>> like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not most other places) is 
>> the major disease vector.
>> 
>> Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.
>> 
>> Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data, with 29 million infections and 
>> 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to the wrong things  (so 
>> what's new about that?).
>> 
>> [/TINHATOFF]
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic, and that 
>>> containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from the start.  More 
>>> communicable than SARS, more deadly than seasonal flu.  Still remains to be 
>>> seen how it plays out in countries with better (and worse) healthcare 
>>> systems than China, but it’s gonna spread worldwide.  Masks, thermometers 
>>> and quarantine don’t seem to be magic bullets.  Buy lots of hand soap, and 
>>> stay off cruise ships.
>>>  
>>> https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Colin Stanners
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)
>>>  
>>>  It seems that America's enemies know that the best way to have 
>>> America's economy crumble is to let the Trump rallies go on fully 
>>> unimpeded. 
>>>  
>>> A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a few thousand 
>>> currently dead, including many medical staff, who are being mourned by 
>>> their friends and families. It's likely that the number of people killed by 
>>> coronavirus will surpass that of the 9/11 attacks shortly.
>>>  
>>> Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it could 
>>> infect or have infected millions or much more, then suddenly that 2% dead 
>>> becomes unimaginable.
>>>  
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones  
>>> wrote:
>>> You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at a major public 
>>> gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt be a major terror success? CNN 
>>> and MSNBC would be advertising for the terrorists 24/7. By the time they 
>>> were done with it, it could have killed zero people, and everyone would 
>>> still be hid out in their house listening to their propaganda. Our economy 
>>> would crumble
>>>  
>>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>> Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>  
>>> On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>> As a terror weapon it would be perfect
>>>  
>>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:11 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>>> Kill rate is far too low to be considered a bio-weapon. Kill rate needs to 
>>> be over 30%.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>  
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

[Matt Hoppes]

THAT WE KNOW OF. 

Can’t have infections if you aren’t testing for them, now can you?

> On Feb 23, 2020, at 4:00 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> Its had over a month in the us, still zero transmissions outside the guy 
> banging his infected wife... theyre both home and virus free now btw
> 
>> On Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 1:24 PM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> Exactly. Give it a few more weeks. It hasn’t had much time in the U. S. Yet. 
>> 
>>> On Feb 23, 2020, at 2:05 PM, Robert  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise ship, I'm 
>>> pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe case percentage of 
>>> 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs .1 percent for flu is apples 
>>> and oranges.   But you keep telling yourself what makes you feel safe.   
>>> Keep drinking the koolaid while the long storage food supplies are bought 
>>> up.( check on Amazon what's still available vs. sold out ).   Let's see 
>>> what the numbers are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what modern medicine 
>>> can do.   
>>> 
>>>> On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>> [TINHATOFF]
>>>> 
>>>> It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning to look 
>>>> like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not most other places) 
>>>> is the major disease vector.
>>>> 
>>>> Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.
>>>> 
>>>> Contrast this to the latest US-only   flu data, with 29 million 
>>>> infections and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to the wrong 
>>>> things  (so what's new about that?).
>>>> 
>>>> [/TINHATOFF]
>>>> 
>>>> bp
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>>> Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic, and that 
>>>>> containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from the start.  More 
>>>>> communicable than SARS, more deadly than seasonal flu.  Still remains to 
>>>>> be seen how it plays out in countries with better (and worse) healthcare 
>>>>> systems than China, but it’s gonna spread worldwide.  Masks, thermometers 
>>>>> and quarantine don’t seem to be magic bullets.  Buy lots of hand soap, 
>>>>> and stay off cruise ships.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Colin Stanners
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>>  It seems that America's enemies know that the best way to 
>>>>> have America's economy crumble is to let the Trump rallies go on fully 
>>>>> unimpeded. 
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a few 
>>>>> thousand currently dead, including many medical staff, who are being 
>>>>> mourned by their friends and families. It's likely that 
>>>>> the number of people killed by coronavirus will surpass that of the 9/11 
>>>>> attacks shortly.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it could 
>>>>> infect or have infected millions or much more, then suddenly that 2% dead 
>>>>> becomes unimaginable.
>>>>> 
>>>>>  
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at a major 
>>>>> public gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt be a major terror 
>>>>> success? CNN and MSNBC would be advertising for the terrorists 24/7. By 
>>>>> the time they were done with it, it could have killed zero people, and 
>>>>> everyone would still be hid out in their house listening to their 
>>>>> propaganda. Ou

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

[Matt Hoppes]

And?

On 2/24/20 11:54 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
I don't know if it was for this particular strain of corona virus, but 
when I was sick in January, I was tested for multiple strains of corona 
virus.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
<https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>


<https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
----
*From: *"Matt Hoppes" 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Sunday, February 23, 2020 3:04:09 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

THAT WE KNOW OF.

Can’t have infections if you aren’t testing for them, now can you?

On Feb 23, 2020, at 4:00 PM, Steve Jones <mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Its had over a month in the us, still zero transmissions outside the
guy banging his infected wife... theyre both home and virus free now btw

On Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 1:24 PM Matt Hoppes
mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:

Exactly. Give it a few more weeks. It hasn’t had much time in
the U. S. Yet.

On Feb 23, 2020, at 2:05 PM, Robert mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the
cruise ship, I'm pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea
and a severe case percentage of 20% and confirmed death rate
_by WHO_ of 2% vs .1 percent for flu is apples and
oranges.   But you keep telling yourself what makes you feel
safe.   Keep drinking the koolaid while the long storage
food supplies are bought up.    ( check on Amazon what's
still available vs. sold out ).   Let's see what the numbers
are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what modern medicine
can do.

On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

[TINHATOFF]

It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's
beginning to look like the trench/squat toilets common
in China (and not most other places) is the major
disease vector.

Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO
deaths.

Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data
<https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm>, with 29
million infections and 16,000 deaths. I think we are
paying attention to the wrong things  (so what's new
about that?).

[/TINHATOFF]

bp


On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for
a pandemic, and that containment didn’t fail,
containment was hopeless from the start.  More
communicable than SARS, more deadly than seasonal
flu.  Still remains to be seen how it plays out in
countries with better (and worse) healthcare systems
than China, but it’s gonna spread worldwide.  Masks,
thermometers and quarantine don’t seem to be magic
bullets.  Buy lots of hand soap, and stay off cruise
ships.

__ __


https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy

__ __

__ __

*From:* AF 
<mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of
*Colin Stanners
*Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT
stock)

__ __

 It seems that America's enemies know
that the best way to have America's economy crumble
is to let the Trump rallies go on fully unimpeded.


__ __

A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but
that's still a few thousand currently dead,

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

[Matt Hoppes]

Remember - we aren’t really testing here in the U. S. Right now. 

All you have to look at are pneumonia deaths - which are high this year. 
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

[Matt Hoppes]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-korean-air/one-of-korean-airs-cabin-crew-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-idUSKCN20J0GK-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

[Matt Hoppes]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-health-korean-air/one-of-korean-airs-cabin-crew-tests-positive-for-coronavirus-idUSKCN20J0GK-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

[Matt Hoppes]

This is correct. Aircraft is at most 10% recycled air. They have HEPA filters 
for the recycled air. 

Turning the nozzle on above you and blowing it over you actually creates a 
“cone of safety” that blows bacteria and virus away from you. 

> On Feb 25, 2020, at 4:40 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> I read that they don't really recirculate the air.  They have an intake at 
> the front and a relief valve at the back. Pressure outside the plane is low, 
> but forward motion of the plane compresses it to a higher pressure and the 
> valve stops it from getting too high. 
> 
> Sounds like it would be safest in first class ;)
> 
>> On 2/24/2020 10:57 PM, Robert wrote:
>> Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent recirculation...
>> 
>>> On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>> 
 On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert wrote:
 Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise ship, I'm 
 pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe case percentage 
 of 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs .1 percent for flu is 
 apples and oranges.   But you keep telling yourself what makes you feel 
 safe.   Keep drinking the koolaid while the long storage food supplies are 
 bought up.( check on Amazon what's still available vs. sold out ).   
 Let's see what the numbers are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what 
 modern medicine can do.   
 
> On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> [TINHATOFF]
> 
> It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning to look 
> like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not most other places) 
> is the major disease   vector.
> 
> Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.
> 
> Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data, with 29 million infections 
> and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to the wrong things  
> (so what's new about that?).
> 
> [/TINHATOFF]
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic, and 
>> that containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from the start.  
>> More communicable than SARS, more deadly than seasonal flu.  Still 
>> remains to be seen how it plays out in   countries with 
>> better (and worse) healthcare systems than China, but it’s gonna spread 
>> worldwide.  Masks, thermometers and quarantine don’t seem to be magic 
>> bullets.  Buy lots of hand soap, and stay off cruise ships.
>>  
>> https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy
>>  
>>  
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Colin Stanners
>> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)
>>  
>>  It seems that America's enemies know that the best way to 
>> have America's economy crumble is to let the Trump rallies go on fully 
>> unimpeded. 
>>  
>> A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a few 
>> thousand   currently dead, including many medical 
>> staff, who are being mourned by their friends and families. It's likely 
>> that the number of people killed by coronavirus will surpass that of the 
>> 9/11 attacks shortly.
>>  
>> Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it could 
>> infect or have infected millions or much more, then suddenly that 2% 
>> dead becomes unimaginable.
>>  
>> 
>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones  
>> wrote:
>> You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at a major 
>> public gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt be a major terror 
>> success? CNN and MSNBC would be advertising for the terrorists 24/7. By 
>> the time they were done with it, it could have killed zero people, and 
>> everyone would still be hid out in their house listening to their 
>> propaganda. Our economy would crumble
>>  
>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>> Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>>  
>> On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:
>> As a terror weapon it would be perfect
>>  
>> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:11 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>> Kill rate is far too low to be considered a bio-weapon. Kill 
>> rate needs to be over 30%.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>>  
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>  
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afm

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

[Matt Hoppes]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/travel/4345235/why-you-should-always-keep-your-air-vent-nozzle-open-on-a-flight/

On 2/25/20 8:10 AM, Robert wrote:
Nope, wrong.    Almost all designs use compression off one of the 
engines that actually compresses/heats the air.



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabin_pressurization

I was wrong about 80% its 50% and the recirc is hepa filtered. Who wants 
to change those  filters?


On 2/25/20 3:03 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
This is correct. Aircraft is at most 10% recycled air. They have HEPA 
filters for the recycled air.


Turning the nozzle on above you and blowing it over you actually 
creates a “cone of safety” that blows bacteria and virus away from you.


On Feb 25, 2020, at 4:40 AM, Adam Moffett <mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com>> wrote:


I read that they don't really recirculate the air.  They have an 
intake at the front and a relief valve at the back. Pressure outside 
the plane is low, but forward motion of the plane compresses it to a 
higher pressure and the valve stops it from getting too high.


Sounds like it would be safest in first class ;)

On 2/24/2020 10:57 PM, Robert wrote:

Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent recirculation...

On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.

bp


On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert wrote:
Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise 
ship, I'm pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe 
case percentage of 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs 
.1 percent for flu is apples and oranges.   But you keep telling 
yourself what makes you feel safe.   Keep drinking the koolaid 
while the long storage food supplies are bought up.    ( check on 
Amazon what's still available vs. sold out ).   Let's see what the 
numbers are in S. Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what modern medicine 
can do.


On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


[TINHATOFF]

It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning 
to look like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not 
most other places) is the major disease vector.


Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.

Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data 
<https://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/index.htm>, with 29 million 
infections and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to 
the wrong things  (so what's new about that?).


[/TINHATOFF]

bp


On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic, 
and that containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from 
the start.  More communicable than SARS, more deadly than 
seasonal flu.  Still remains to be seen how it plays out in 
countries with better (and worse) healthcare systems than China, 
but it’s gonna spread worldwide.  Masks, thermometers and 
quarantine don’t seem to be magic bullets.  Buy lots of hand 
soap, and stay off cruise ships.


https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Colin Stanners
*Sent:* Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

 It seems that America's enemies know that the best 
way to have America's economy crumble is to let the Trump 
rallies go on fully unimpeded. 


A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a 
few thousand currently dead, including many medical staff, who 
are being mourned by their friends and families. It's likely 
that the number of people killed by coronavirus will surpass 
that of the 9/11 attacks shortly.


Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it 
could infect or have infected millions or much more, then 
suddenly that 2% dead becomes unimaginable.


On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at
a major public gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt
be a major terror success? CNN and MSNBC would be
advertising for the terrorists 24/7. By the time they were
done with it, it could have killed zero people, and everyone
would still be hid out in their house listening to their
propaganda. Our economy would crumble

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.

bp



On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

As a terror weapon it would be perfect

On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 8:11 PM Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

Kill rate is far too low to be considered a
bio-weapon. Kill rate needs to be over 30%.

bp



-- 
AF mailing list

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)

[Matt Hoppes]

Make sure you change your RF Filters. 

> On Feb 25, 2020, at 5:00 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> if corona virus hits the internet, it wont be able to survive the filth
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 1:18 PM Colin Stanners  wrote:
>> If the coronavirus somehow becomes able to spread via the internet, humanity 
>> is done for.
>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 25, 2020 at 11:19 AM Robert  wrote:
>>> Sorry, the cruise ship resulted in them changing it to aerosolized in 
>>> propagation...
>>> 
 On 2/25/20 8:02 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
 Recirculating air would not be a vector, as it's been established this 
 virus is not airborne, except by physical droplets. It's all about 
 what/who you touch or get over-spray from nearby coughs and sneezes.
 
 
 
 bp
 
 
> On 2/24/2020 7:57 PM, Robert wrote:
> Very similar to an Commercial airliner with 80 percent recirculation...
> 
>> On 2/24/20 8:17 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> A cruise ship is like a 5,000 seat petri dish.
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2/23/2020 11:05 AM, Robert wrote:
>>> Hmmm, I don't think they used trench/squat toilets on the cruise ship, 
>>> I'm pretty sure they don't use them in S. Korea and a severe case 
>>> percentage of 20% and confirmed death rate _by WHO_ of 2% vs .1 percent 
>>> for flu is apples and oranges.   But you keep telling yourself what 
>>> makes you feel safe.   Keep drinking the koolaid while the long storage 
>>> food supplies are bought up.( check on Amazon   what's 
>>> still available vs. sold out ).   Let's see what the numbers are in S. 
>>> Korea NEXT Sunday. and see what modern medicine can do.   
>>> 
 On 2/23/20 10:19 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
 [TINHATOFF]
 
 It still after several weeks looks way overblown. It's beginning to 
 look like the trench/squat toilets common in China (and not most other 
 places) is the major disease vector.
 
 Total cases in the US is only 35 individuals, and ZERO deaths.
 
 Contrast this to the latest US-only flu data, with 29 million 
 infections and 16,000 deaths. I think we are paying attention to the 
 wrong things  (so what's new about that?).
 
 [/TINHATOFF]
 
 bp
 
 
> On 2/23/2020 9:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Experts are starting to say it’s time to prepare for a pandemic, and 
> that containment didn’t fail, containment was hopeless from the 
> start.  More communicable than SARS, more deadly than seasonal flu.  
> Still remains to be seen how it plays out in countries with better 
> (and worse) healthcare systems than China, but it’s gonna spread 
> worldwide.  Masks, thermometers and quarantine don’t seem to be magic 
> bullets.  Buy lots of hand soap, and stay off cruise ships.
> 
>  
> 
> https://www.vox.com/2020/2/23/21149327/coronavirus-pandemic-meaning-italy
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Colin Stanners
> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2020 12:58 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)
> 
>  
> 
>  It seems that America's enemies know that the best way to 
> have America's economy crumble is to let the Trump rallies go on 
> fully unimpeded. 
> 
>  
> 
> A kill rate of 2% seems small as statistic, but that's still a few 
> thousand currently dead, including many medical staff, who are being 
> mourned by their friends and families. It's likely that the number of 
> people killed by coronavirus will surpass that of the 9/11 attacks 
> shortly.
> 
>  
> 
> Most frightening is that with its virulence, if uncontrolled it could 
> infect or have infected millions or much more, then suddenly that 2% 
> dead becomes unimaginable.
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 11:55 PM Steve Jones 
>  wrote:
> 
> You dont think releasing something as hyped up as kungflu at a major 
> public gathering, especially a trump rally wouldnt be a major terror 
> success? CNN and MSNBC would be advertising for the terrorists 24/7. 
> By the time they were done with it, it could have killed zero people, 
> and everyone would still be hid out in their house listening to their 
> propaganda. Our economy would crumble
> 
>  
> 
> On Sat, Feb 22, 2020, 9:14 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> Not for me. So far it has mostly been meh.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 2/22/2020 6:48 PM,

[AFMUG] NTCA

[Matt Hoppes]

Is anyone here an NTCA member?

If so, have you taken advantage of their retirement and health insurance 
programs and if so how good are they?


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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

Let it keep going down!  I moved everything to Money Market Monday. Once it 
bottoms out I’ll stick it back in stocks. 

> On Feb 28, 2020, at 6:45 PM, Darin Steffl  wrote:
> 
> I just wanna know when we hit rock bottom so I can buy as much up as possible 
> :) 
> 
>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 4:38 PM  wrote:
>> How long before the stock market recovers.  Stats would suggest 4 months. 
>> But if the virus actually becomes a “thing”, like the sky is falling thing,  
>> I am sure that will extend this correction. 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

Why would a wisp is wet invest in stocks?

Because $100,000 invested carefully in the stock market makes $5,000/week. 

That grows exponentially with little work. 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

Sprinkle around. 

Some in the main stock market, mid cap, large cap and small cap. Then 
international developed and emerging markets. 

Sprinkle it around and the return is amazing. 

I’ve thrown money into the stock market, let it sit for a month or two, then 
taken out the proceeds to buy a new piece of equipment. 

My wisp was also 0 debt funded for start by the stock market. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:28 AM,   wrote:
> 
> Wow,  260% annual return?  How does one carefully invest to get that kind of 
> money?
> 
> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 6:11 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
> 
> Why would a wisp is wet invest in stocks?
> 
> Because $100,000 invested carefully in the stock market makes $5,000/week.
> 
> That grows exponentially with little work.
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

It’s about a 20 day boat trip. And even if it comes by air it will sit at the 
distributor for a bit. Then a few days in transit to you. 

We will probably quarantine Chinese stock for a week or two just to be safe. 

I’m more worried about the local out breaks and stock shortages than 
contamination of stock. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:28 AM, Robert  wrote:
> 
> Covid-19 is active for 9 days on cardboard and plastic.   Hopefully it 
> arrives more slowly than that.
> 
>> On 2/29/20 7:21 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> Our boards shipped last week.  So I think things will be OK hopefully. 
>>  
>> From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 5:38 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>  
>> Every couple of months a question about "is there anywhere I can get 
>> unpopulated circuit boards manufactured at a reasonable price outside 
>> mainland china?" comes up on a couple of forums/mailing lists I'm on.   The 
>> answer always turns out to be no.   It's amazing that somewhere else hasn't 
>> figured out how to replicate what China is doing as far as the circuit 
>> boards go, even if it was double the price.   For comparison, US suppliers 
>> are typically over 20 times the price - a board that is under a dollar each 
>> from China can cost $20 to get made in the USA.
>>  
>> So, like everyone else, our blank circuit boards come from a supplier in 
>> China.   Right now, things are backlogged, but it looks like they're close 
>> to caught up.  In an abundance of caution, we went ahead and pulled in 6 
>> months worth for anything we're currently shipping, so they'll be here in 
>> the next few weeks and we don't have to worry so much.   We haven't inserted 
>> an order for the new Base 3 boards yet, but we expect by the time we do 
>> sometime next week that the backlog will be largely cleared from our 
>> preferred supplier in China.
>>  
>>  
>>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:12 PM Lewis Bergman  
>>> wrote:
>>> Probably not. It has taken decades for China to build the supply chain they 
>>> have. Some countries, like Vietnam, don't have the infrastructure, much 
>>> less the slip set to do it 
>>> I don't doubt they will start planning to diversify, but doing it is years 
>>> away. 
>>>  
>>>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:49 PM Steve Jones  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I have a suspicion that very soon, one or two major companies will 
>>>> announce contracts to move production to another country, like within the 
>>>> next two weeks. Many other will follow suit, diversity in production is 
>>>> probably going to decimate the chinese economy.
>>>> I expect an unrelated announcement this weekend that will quell the 
>>>> downward spiral, a short recovery on monday.
>>>> Within a week or so the administration will temporarily ease tarriffs on 
>>>> humanitarian reasons
>>>> By the end of march I think even if the kungflu is still present, it will 
>>>> be less impactful.
>>>> Recoveries are outpacing deaths now 2:1, new infections are beginning to 
>>>> stagnate. we will see a bump as more surveillance comes on board, its 
>>>> loose in california, and they poop on the streets, so there will be some 
>>>> controlled outbreaks there, no worse than hepatitis, but the plateau is 
>>>> here, excluding some major calamity, like an outbreak in mexico (this will 
>>>> have major geopolitical consequence that will heavily reflect in the 
>>>> markets). its probably going to do some harm in africa with the locusts, 
>>>> but i dont know that africa really impacts markets, they still have ebola 
>>>> running around.
>>>> By the end of march, the market will be on the rebound, early april it 
>>>> will pass 30, that will drive an april speculative growth between 33 and 
>>>> 35 that will correct back down to 29-31 in may.
>>>> around this time production will be back to normal, and the reorganized 
>>>> sourcing will be coming on line and the vaccine will be moving to the next 
>>>> stage
>>>> supply chain disruptions will be recovering
>>>> china will be starving, but humanitarian aid will give everybody a gleeful 
>>>> feeling of global unity.
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:28 PM  wrote:
>>>>> I should

Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

Yes. I’ve been very happy with my stock market runs. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:57 AM,   wrote:
> 
> So you almost triple your money each year?
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 8:33 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
> 
> Sprinkle around.
> 
> Some in the main stock market, mid cap, large cap and small cap. Then 
> international developed and emerging markets.
> 
> Sprinkle it around and the return is amazing.
> 
> I’ve thrown money into the stock market, let it sit for a month or two, then 
> taken out the proceeds to buy a new piece of equipment.
> 
> My wisp was also 0 debt funded for start by the stock market.
> 
>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:28 AM,   wrote:
>> 
>> Wow,  260% annual return?  How does one carefully invest to get that kind of 
>> money?
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 6:11 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>> 
>> Why would a wisp is wet invest in stocks?
>> 
>> Because $100,000 invested carefully in the stock market makes $5,000/week.
>> 
>> That grows exponentially with little work.
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> 
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

Sometimes it goes up. Sometimes it goes down. Even in the short term though on 
a mediocre run you can easily make $1,000/week on $50k. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 11:20 AM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
> 
> Matt’s obviously In the wrong business. If he can consistently get 260% 
> returns then he has far exceeded the skills of Warren Buffett and Bernie 
> Maddoff
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:57 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> 
>> So you almost triple your money each year?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 8:33 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>> 
>> Sprinkle around.
>> 
>> Some in the main stock market, mid cap, large cap and small cap. Then 
>> international developed and emerging markets.
>> 
>> Sprinkle it around and the return is amazing.
>> 
>> I’ve thrown money into the stock market, let it sit for a month or two, then 
>> taken out the proceeds to buy a new piece of equipment.
>> 
>> My wisp was also 0 debt funded for start by the stock market.
>> 
>>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:28 AM,   wrote:
>>> 
>>> Wow,  260% annual return?  How does one carefully invest to get that kind 
>>> of money?
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 6:11 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>> 
>>> Why would a wisp is wet invest in stocks?
>>> 
>>> Because $100,000 invested carefully in the stock market makes $5,000/week.
>>> 
>>> That grows exponentially with little work.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

The entire idea behind traditional retirement is living off the proceeds of 
your stock investments. 

It’s really not that hard if you plan properly. 

No one has to believe anything I say.  

But we aren’t hurting for cash and business is booming faster than we can keep 
up right now.   I know how we got there, whether anyone believes me when I tell 
them how we got where we are is entirely up to you. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 1:40 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> From WHO statement yesterday:
> “Outside China, there are now 4351 cases in 49 countries, and 67 deaths.
> 
> Since yesterday, Denmark, Estonia, Lithuania, Netherlands and Nigeria have 
> all reported their first cases. All these cases have links to Italy.
> 
> 24 cases have been exported from Italy to 14 countries, and 97 cases have 
> been exported from Iran to 11 countries.
> 
> The continued increase in the number of cases, and the number of affected 
> countries over the last few days, are clearly of concern.”
> 
> Thanks, Italy and Iran.
>  
> China numbers are looking promising, but Italy 300 new cases and South Korea 
> 900.  Number of countries with confirmed cases is around 60.
>  
> I see the photos from places like China and S. Korea with soldiers spraying 
> public places with disinfectant, and the steps takeout food places and stores 
> are taking to avoid transmission, and I wonder if that is feasible here.
>  
> Meanwhile S. Korea has tested 35,000 people, the US has tested 400.  Shortage 
> of test kits, and guidelines to only test people who have travelled to China. 
>  If you can believe the Internet (stupid question) Hong Kong is even testing 
> pets.  We don’t even have enough kits to test people.
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 11:54 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>  
> Where are they popping up everywhere?
>  
> On Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 11:39 AM Robert Andrews  wrote:
> That's very realistic.  Local outbreaks are popping up everywhere now 
> and it's the tip of the iceberg.
> 
> On 02/29/2020 07:35 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
> > It’s about a 20 day boat trip. And even if it comes by air it will sit 
> > at the distributor for a bit. Then a few days in transit to you.
> > 
> > We will probably quarantine Chinese stock for a week or two just to be 
> > safe.
> > 
> > I’m more worried about the local out breaks and stock shortages than 
> > contamination of stock.
> > 
> > On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:28 AM, Robert  > <mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
> > 
> >> Covid-19 is active for 9 days on cardboard and plastic. Hopefully it 
> >> arrives more slowly than that.
> >>
> >> On 2/29/20 7:21 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> >>> Our boards shipped last week.  So I think things will be OK hopefully.
> >>> *From:* Forrest Christian (List Account)
> >>> *Sent:* Friday, February 28, 2020 5:38 PM
> >>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
> >>> Every couple of months a question about "is there anywhere I can get 
> >>> unpopulated circuit boards manufactured at a reasonable price outside 
> >>> mainland china?" comes up on a couple of forums/mailing lists I'm 
> >>> on.   The answer always turns out to be no.   It's amazing that 
> >>> somewhere else hasn't figured out how to replicate what China is 
> >>> doing as far as the circuit boards go, even if it was double the 
> >>> price.   For comparison, US suppliers are typically over 20 times the 
> >>> price - a board that is under a dollar each from China can cost $20 
> >>> to get made in the USA.
> >>> So, like everyone else, our blank circuit boards come from a supplier 
> >>> in China.   Right now, things are backlogged, but it looks like 
> >>> they're close to caught up.  In an abundance of caution, we went 
> >>> ahead and pulled in 6 months worth for anything we're currently 
> >>> shipping, so they'll be here in the next few weeks and we don't have 
> >>> to worry so much.   We haven't inserted an order for the new Base 3 
> >>> boards yet, but we expect by the time we do sometime next week that 
> >>> the backlog will be largely cleared from our preferred supplier in China.
> >>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:12 PM Lewis Bergman 
> >>>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Probably not. It has taken decades for China to build the supply
> >>&

Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

Well. We have around 60 cases in the U.S. and we just had the first death. 

That’s not a good track record. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> Don't forget that there are dozens, maybe hundreds, maybe even thousands of 
> corona viruses in circulation. One of the issues of "curing" the common cold 
> is because corona viruses mutate like crazy. I am now firmly of the opinion 
> that the COVID-19 virus has been circulating longer than anyone knew, and 
> it's been written off as just another cold. We shall see.
> 
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 2/29/2020 11:32 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> Hard to judge fatality rate when new cases are just starting to rise in a 
>> country.  They may be undercounting the cases because, like you say, they 
>> haven’t been testing.  On the other hand, maybe the people haven’t had it 
>> long enough to die yet.
>>  
>> Maybe these mystery cases ate bat or pangolin.  Just kidding.  But you 
>> almost have to wonder if there have always been a certain number of people 
>> with this or a related coronavirus and we are only finding out because we 
>> are testing now.  No, that sounds like a conspiracy theory.More 
>> likely someone who travelled to Italy or Iran sneezed on them.  With the 
>> virus living for up to 9 days on surfaces, could money become a vehicle for 
>> transmission?  I know lots of people use cards or their phones to pay for 
>> everything, but this could be the death of paper money and coins.  Think 
>> where that stuff has been.  But on the other hand, the virus is spreading 
>> like crazy in mostly cashless countries.
>>  
>> Oh, and I saw that a patient in Washington state has died.  No details.
>>  
>>  
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 12:57 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>  
>> Interesting that the fatalities  in China are around 3.4%, yet the 
>> fatalities outside China are only .1%.
>> 
>> Listening to the news this morning, it's become apparent that outside of 
>> China, no one was prepared, and that they really have not been testing. 
>> Problems with test kits; like they were not working correctly, and secondly, 
>> no one was testing.
>> 
>> I believe (now) that this virus has already spanned the globe, and the major 
>> saving grace is that 80% of the cases are mild or asymptomatic. it is, after 
>> all, just another corona virus. New or not, we deal with viruses like it all 
>> the time.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>>  
>> On 2/29/2020 10:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> From WHO statement yesterday:
>> “Outside China, there are now 4351 cases in 49 countries, and 67 deaths.
>> 
>> Since yesterday, Denmark, Estonia, Lithuania, Netherlands and Nigeria have 
>> all reported their first cases. All these cases have links to Italy.
>> 
>> 24 cases have been exported from Italy to 14 countries, and 97 cases have 
>> been exported from Iran to 11 countries.
>> 
>> The continued increase in the number of cases, and the number of affected 
>> countries over the last few days, are clearly of concern.”
>> 
>> Thanks, Italy and Iran.
>>  
>> China numbers are looking promising, but Italy 300 new cases and South Korea 
>> 900.  Number of countries with confirmed cases is around 60.
>>  
>> I see the photos from places like China and S. Korea with soldiers spraying 
>> public places with disinfectant, and the steps takeout food places and 
>> stores are taking to avoid transmission, and I wonder if that is feasible 
>> here.
>>  
>> Meanwhile S. Korea has tested 35,000 people, the US has tested 400.  
>> Shortage of test kits, and guidelines to only test people who have travelled 
>> to China.  If you can believe the Internet (stupid question) Hong Kong is 
>> even testing pets.  We don’t even have enough kits to test people.
>>  
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 11:54 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>  
>> Where are they popping up everywhere?
>>  
>> On Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 11:39 AM Robert Andrews  wrote:
>> That's very realistic.  Local outbreaks are popping up everywhere now 
>> and it's the tip of the iceberg.
>> 
>> On 02/29/2020 07:35 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> > It’s about a 20 day boat trip. And even if it comes by air it will sit 
>> > at the distributor fo

Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

The other thing is - some folks with repute are saying this may be like AIDS, 
essentially it may stay with you for life. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:32 AM,   wrote:
> 
> They gave us a protocol for opening the packages.  Not sure if the individual 
> PCBs are handled by people but I would think so during inspection and 
> packing. 
>  
> From: Robert
> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 8:28 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>  
> Covid-19 is active for 9 days on cardboard and plastic.   Hopefully it 
> arrives more slowly than that.
> 
>> On 2/29/20 7:21 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> Our boards shipped last week.  So I think things will be OK hopefully. 
>>  
>> From: Forrest Christian (List Account)
>> Sent: Friday, February 28, 2020 5:38 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>  
>> Every couple of months a question about "is there anywhere I can get 
>> unpopulated circuit boards manufactured at a reasonable price outside 
>> mainland china?" comes up on a couple of forums/mailing lists I'm on.   The 
>> answer always turns out to be no.   It's amazing that somewhere else hasn't 
>> figured out how to replicate what China is doing as far as the circuit 
>> boards go, even if it was double the price.   For comparison, US suppliers 
>> are typically over 20 times the price - a board that is under a dollar each 
>> from China can cost $20 to get made in the USA.
>>  
>> So, like everyone else, our blank circuit boards come from a supplier in 
>> China.   Right now, things are backlogged, but it looks like they're close 
>> to caught up.  In an abundance of caution, we went ahead and pulled in 6 
>> months worth for anything we're currently shipping, so they'll be here in 
>> the next few weeks and we don't have to worry so much.   We haven't inserted 
>> an order for the new Base 3 boards yet, but we expect by the time we do 
>> sometime next week that the backlog will be largely cleared from our 
>> preferred supplier in China.
>>  
>>  
>>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020 at 5:12 PM Lewis Bergman  
>>> wrote:
>>> Probably not. It has taken decades for China to build the supply chain they 
>>> have. Some countries, like Vietnam, don't have the infrastructure, much 
>>> less the slip set to do it 
>>> I don't doubt they will start planning to diversify, but doing it is years 
>>> away. 
>>>  
>>>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2020, 5:49 PM Steve Jones  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I have a suspicion that very soon, one or two major companies will 
>>>> announce contracts to move production to another country, like within the 
>>>> next two weeks. Many other will follow suit, diversity in production is 
>>>> probably going to decimate the chinese economy.
>>>> I expect an unrelated announcement this weekend that will quell the 
>>>> downward spiral, a short recovery on monday.
>>>> Within a week or so the administration will temporarily ease tarriffs on 
>>>> humanitarian reasons
>>>> By the end of march I think even if the kungflu is still present, it will 
>>>> be less impactful.
>>>> Recoveries are outpacing deaths now 2:1, new infections are beginning to 
>>>> stagnate. we will see a bump as more surveillance comes on board, its 
>>>> loose in california, and they poop on the streets, so there will be some 
>>>> controlled outbreaks there, no worse than hepatitis, but the plateau is 
>>>> here, excluding some major calamity, like an outbreak in mexico (this will 
>>>> have major geopolitical consequence that will heavily reflect in the 
>>>> markets). its probably going to do some harm in africa with the locusts, 
>>>> but i dont know that africa really impacts markets, they still have ebola 
>>>> running around.
>>>> By the end of march, the market will be on the rebound, early april it 
>>>> will pass 30, that will drive an april speculative growth between 33 and 
>>>> 35 that will correct back down to 29-31 in may.
>>>> around this time production will be back to normal, and the reorganized 
>>>> sourcing will be coming on line and the vaccine will be moving to the next 
>>>> stage
>>>> supply chain disruptions will be recovering
>>>> china will be starving, but humanitarian aid will give everybody a gleeful 
>>>> feeling of global unity.
>>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

That would actually be very good news if discovered. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 2:51 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that the US has actually already 
> had thousands of cases that have not been diagnosed.
> 
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 2/29/2020 11:47 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Well. We have around 60 cases in the U.S. and we just had the first death. 
>> 
>> That’s not a good track record. 
>> 
>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>> 
>>> Don't forget that there are dozens, maybe hundreds, maybe even thousands of 
>>> corona viruses in circulation. One of the issues of "curing" the common 
>>> cold is because corona viruses mutate like crazy. I am now firmly of the 
>>> opinion that the COVID-19 virus has been circulating longer than anyone 
>>> knew, and it's been written off as just another cold. We shall see.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2/29/2020 11:32 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>> Hard to judge fatality rate when new cases are just starting to rise in a 
>>>> country.  They may be undercounting the cases because, like you say, they 
>>>> haven’t been testing.  On the other hand, maybe the people haven’t had it 
>>>> long enough to die yet.
>>>>  
>>>> Maybe these mystery cases ate bat or pangolin.  Just kidding.  But you 
>>>> almost have to wonder if there have always been a certain number of people 
>>>> with this or a related coronavirus and we are only finding out because we 
>>>> are testing now.  No, that sounds like a conspiracy theory.  More likely 
>>>> someone who travelled to Italy or Iran sneezed on them.  With the virus 
>>>> living for up to 9 days on surfaces, could money become a vehicle for 
>>>> transmission?  I know lots of people use cards or their phones to pay for 
>>>> everything, but this could be the death of paper money and coins.  Think 
>>>> where that stuff has been.  But on the other hand, the virus is spreading 
>>>> like crazy in mostly cashless countries.
>>>>  
>>>> Oh, and I saw that a patient in Washington state has died.  No details.
>>>>  
>>>>  
>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 12:57 PM
>>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>>>  
>>>> Interesting that the fatalities  in China are around 3.4%, yet the 
>>>> fatalities outside China are only .1%.
>>>> 
>>>> Listening to the news this morning, it's become apparent that outside of 
>>>> China, no one was prepared, and that they really have not been testing. 
>>>> Problems with test kits; like they were not working correctly, and 
>>>> secondly, no one was testing.
>>>> 
>>>> I believe (now) that this virus has already spanned the globe, and the 
>>>> major saving grace is that 80% of the cases are mild or asymptomatic. it 
>>>> is, after all, just another corona virus. New or not, we deal with viruses 
>>>> like it all the time.
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>> bp
>>>> 
>>>>  
>>>> On 2/29/2020 10:40 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>> From WHO statement yesterday:
>>>> “Outside China, there are now 4351 cases in 49 countries, and 67 deaths.
>>>> 
>>>> Since yesterday, Denmark, Estonia, Lithuania, Netherlands and Nigeria have 
>>>> all reported their first cases. All these cases have 
>>>> links to Italy.
>>>> 
>>>> 24 cases have been exported from Italy to 14 countries, and 97 cases have 
>>>> been exported from Iran to 11 countries.
>>>> 
>>>> The continued increase in the number of cases, and the number of affected 
>>>> countries over the last few days, are clearly of concern.”
>>>> 
>>>> Thanks, Italy and Iran.
>>>>  
>>>> China numbers are looking promising, but Italy 300 new cases and South 
>>>> Korea 900.  Number of countries with confirmed cases is around 60.
>>>>  
>>>> I see the photos from places like China and S. Korea with soldiers 
>>>> spraying public places with disinfectant, and the steps takeout food 
>>>> places and stores are taking to avoid transmission, and I wonder if that 
>>>

Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

It’s called logarithmic advancement. Watch where we are in two weeks. It’s 
going to be very bad. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 3:47 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> You want me to list all the diseases in the recent past they scare tactic 
> with "it may stick with you for life" of course, no actual health specialists 
> says that, just the media, and karen. 
> Im waiting still to see an explosion of cases. Been in the US about 4 
> incubation cycles now, during flu season, when people are most asceptic. I 
> like watchong bloviating over nothingburgers, gets my old juices flowing.
> 
> Monday, 700 point gain
> 
>> On Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 2:30 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>> Both.
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2/29/2020 12:25 PM, Robert wrote:
>>> had->Have
>>> 
>>>> On 2/29/20 11:51 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>>> I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that the US has actually 
>>>> already had thousands of cases that have not been diagnosed.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> bp
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/29/2020 11:47 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>>> Well. We have around 60 cases in the U.S. and we just had the first 
>>>>> death. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> That’s not a good track record. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Don't forget that there are dozens, maybe hundreds, maybe even thousands 
>>>>>> of corona viruses in circulation. One of the issues of "curing" the 
>>>>>> common cold is because corona viruses mutate like crazy. I am now firmly 
>>>>>> of the opinion that the COVID-19 virus has been circulating longer than 
>>>>>> anyone knew, and it's been written off as just another 
>>>>>> cold. We shall see.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> bp
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/29/2020 11:32 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>>>>>> Hard to judge fatality rate when new cases are just starting to rise in 
>>>>>>> a country.  They may be undercounting the cases because, like you say, 
>>>>>>> they haven’t been testing.  On the other hand, maybe the people haven’t 
>>>>>>> had it long enough to die yet.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Maybe these mystery cases ate bat or pangolin.  Just kidding.  But you 
>>>>>>> almost have to wonder if there have always been a certain number of 
>>>>>>> people with this or a related coronavirus and we are only finding out 
>>>>>>> because we are testing now.  No, that sounds like a conspiracy theory.  
>>>>>>> More likely someone who travelled to Italy or Iran sneezed on them.  
>>>>>>> With the virus living for up to 9 days on surfaces, could money become 
>>>>>>> a vehicle for transmission?  I know lots of people use cards or their 
>>>>>>> phones to pay for everything, but this could be the death of paper 
>>>>>>> money and coins.  Think where that stuff has been.  But on the other 
>>>>>>> hand, the virus is spreading like crazy in mostly cashless countries.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Oh, and I saw that a patient in Washington state has died.  No details.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 12:57 PM
>>>>>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Interesting that the fatalities  in China are around 3.4%, yet the 
>>>>>>> fatalities outside China are only .1%.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Listening to the news this morning, it's become apparent that outside 
>>>>>>> of China, no one was prepared, and that they really have not been 
>>>>>>> testing. Problems with test kits; like they were not working correctly, 
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

Correct. You’ve got to watch your money and buy and sell properly. 

Stock market has tow approaches:

Set and forget - and in the long run you’ll make money. 

Or buy and sell often and aggressively make more money if you do it right (or 
lose a lot of money) if you do it wrong. 

I was talking to one of our own who is no longer in the industry, the other 
day, who told me he made around $500 in about 15 minutes of the stock market 
opening doing his day trading. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 4:07 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I too have seen these kind of numbers however they are not consistently up if 
> the market is down I can also lose $1,000 on 50K
> 
> Sent from my smartphone
> 
> - Reply message -
> From: "Matt Hoppes" 
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> Subject: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
> Date: Sat, Feb 29, 2020 12:51 PM
> 
> Sometimes it goes up. Sometimes it goes down. Even in the short term though 
> on a mediocre run you can easily make $1,000/week on $50k. 
> 
> > On Feb 29, 2020, at 11:20 AM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
> > 
> > Matt’s obviously In the wrong business. If he can consistently get 260% 
> > returns then he has far exceeded the skills of Warren Buffett and Bernie 
> > Maddoff
> > 
> > Mark
> > 
> > 
> >> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:57 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> >> 
> >> So you almost triple your money each year?
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> >> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 8:33 AM
> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
> >> 
> >> Sprinkle around.
> >> 
> >> Some in the main stock market, mid cap, large cap and small cap. Then 
> >> international developed and emerging markets.
> >> 
> >> Sprinkle it around and the return is amazing.
> >> 
> >> I’ve thrown money into the stock market, let it sit for a month or two, 
> >> then taken out the proceeds to buy a new piece of equipment.
> >> 
> >> My wisp was also 0 debt funded for start by the stock market.
> >> 
> >>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:28 AM,   wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> Wow,  260% annual return?  How does one carefully invest to get that kind 
> >>> of money?
> >>> 
> >>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 6:11 AM
> >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
> >>> 
> >>> Why would a wisp is wet invest in stocks?
> >>> 
> >>> Because $100,000 invested carefully in the stock market makes $5,000/week.
> >>> 
> >>> That grows exponentially with little work.
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>> 
> >>> -- 
> >>> AF mailing list
> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
> >> 
> >> -- 
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > AF mailing list
> > AF@af.afmug.com
> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

You’ve got to know when to hold em, know when to fold em, know when to walk 
away. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 4:48 PM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  wrote:
> 
> I would call that betting, and the longer term strategy investing.
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
> 
>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 3:12 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Correct. You’ve got to watch your money and buy and sell properly. 
>> 
>> Stock market has tow approaches:
>> 
>> Set and forget - and in the long run you’ll make money. 
>> 
>> Or buy and sell often and aggressively make more money if you do it right 
>> (or lose a lot of money) if you do it wrong. 
>> 
>> I was talking to one of our own who is no longer in the industry, the other 
>> day, who told me he made around $500 in about 15 minutes of the stock market 
>> opening doing his day trading. 
>> 
>>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 4:07 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I too have seen these kind of numbers however they are not consistently up 
>>> if the market is down I can also lose $1,000 on 50K
>>> 
>>> Sent from my smartphone
>>> 
>>> - Reply message -
>>> From: "Matt Hoppes" 
>>> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>> Date: Sat, Feb 29, 2020 12:51 PM
>>> 
>>> Sometimes it goes up. Sometimes it goes down. Even in the short term though 
>>> on a mediocre run you can easily make $1,000/week on $50k. 
>>> 
>>> > On Feb 29, 2020, at 11:20 AM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>>> > 
>>> > Matt’s obviously In the wrong business. If he can consistently get 260% 
>>> > returns then he has far exceeded the skills of Warren Buffett and Bernie 
>>> > Maddoff
>>> > 
>>> > Mark
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> >> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:57 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> >> 
>>> >> So you almost triple your money each year?
>>> >> 
>>> >> 
>>> >> 
>>> >> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>> >> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 8:33 AM
>>> >> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>> >> 
>>> >> Sprinkle around.
>>> >> 
>>> >> Some in the main stock market, mid cap, large cap and small cap. Then 
>>> >> international developed and emerging markets.
>>> >> 
>>> >> Sprinkle it around and the return is amazing.
>>> >> 
>>> >> I’ve thrown money into the stock market, let it sit for a month or two, 
>>> >> then taken out the proceeds to buy a new piece of equipment.
>>> >> 
>>> >> My wisp was also 0 debt funded for start by the stock market.
>>> >> 
>>> >>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:28 AM,   wrote:
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Wow,  260% annual return?  How does one carefully invest to get that 
>>> >>> kind of money?
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>> >>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 6:11 AM
>>> >>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Why would a wisp is wet invest in stocks?
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> Because $100,000 invested carefully in the stock market makes 
>>> >>> $5,000/week.
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> That grows exponentially with little work.
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> -- 
>>> >>> AF mailing list
>>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >>> 
>>> >>> -- 
>>> >>> AF mailing list
>>> >>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >> 
>>> >> -- 
>>> >> AF mailing list
>>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>>> >> 
>>> >> -- 
>>> >> AF mailing list
>>> >> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> >> 
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > -- 
>>> > AF mailing list
>>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

I can tell you. lol

It’s going to be awhile though. Need to wait for Wuhan Flu to blow over. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 5:19 PM, Jon Langeler  wrote:
> 
> Send me a PM on your next trades if you could!
> 
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Technologies, Inc.
> 
> 
>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 1:50 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Yes. I’ve been very happy with my stock market runs. 
>> 
>>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:57 AM,   wrote:
>>> 
>>> So you almost triple your money each year?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 8:33 AM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>> 
>>> Sprinkle around.
>>> 
>>> Some in the main stock market, mid cap, large cap and small cap. Then 
>>> international developed and emerging markets.
>>> 
>>> Sprinkle it around and the return is amazing.
>>> 
>>> I’ve thrown money into the stock market, let it sit for a month or two, 
>>> then taken out the proceeds to buy a new piece of equipment.
>>> 
>>> My wisp was also 0 debt funded for start by the stock market.
>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 29, 2020, at 10:28 AM,   wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Wow,  260% annual return?  How does one carefully invest to get that kind 
>>>> of money?
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 29, 2020 6:11 AM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool
>>>> 
>>>> Why would a wisp is wet invest in stocks?
>>>> 
>>>> Because $100,000 invested carefully in the stock market makes $5,000/week.
>>>> 
>>>> That grows exponentially with little work.
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> AF mailing list
>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

I’m not panicking yet. 

I’m *probably* attending the show. We’ll see where things end up in two weeks. 

I’m seriously considering bowing out of MuM and an event the month after at 
this point though. We shall see. 

Remember the lily pad problem:

A single lily pad is on a pond and the number double every day. In 28 days the 
entire pond will be covered. It’s on day 27 that only half the pond is covered. 
Days 1-26 look pretty calm. 
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

Close to 60 days since Wuhan broke out. 

It’s gaining steam here in the U.S. 

There’s about a 14 day incubation period and some people can be asymptomatic 
which means they are silent spreaders. 

This means by the time we hear of deaths, the disease is already well infected 
that area. There is a severe lag here because of the way this virus works:

Day 1-14: Incubation
Day 15-21: Cold Like Symptoms
Days 22-30: Severe Symptoms (if they are going to develop)
Followed by death. 

By that point the infected has had at least 14 days or longer to infect other 
people. 

In some cases symptoms have improved for the infected only to then take a 
serious dive down and result in death. 

> On Feb 29, 2020, at 6:43 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> Its been close to 60 days here, the pond should be overflowing
> 
>> On Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 5:40 PM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> I’m not panicking yet. 
>> 
>> I’m *probably* attending the show. We’ll see where things end up in two 
>> weeks. 
>> 
>> I’m seriously considering bowing out of MuM and an event the month after at 
>> this point though. We shall see. 
>> 
>> Remember the lily pad problem:
>> 
>> A single lily pad is on a pond and the number double every day. In 28 days 
>> the entire pond will be covered. It’s on day 27 that only half the pond is 
>> covered. Days 1-26 look pretty calm. 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT shall we start a pool

[Matt Hoppes]

Because the rest of the world is fumbling the testing!

See what happens this week when the US starts doing more tests. 

> On Mar 1, 2020, at 6:14 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> 
> Just for a little real world perspective. Over half the global infections are 
> recovered. Recoveries are outpacing new infection. 
> 
>> On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 12:01 PM Steve Jones  
>> wrote:
>> If she would learn to listen better, maybe have the meatloaf on the table a 
>> little earlier maybe her mask would fit a little better. Just saying, maybe 
>> she should take a little accountability
>> 
>>> On Sun, Mar 1, 2020, 11:25 AM Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Mar 1, 2020, at 10:23 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:
>>> 
>>> > She fails her fit test every year for the mask because of her face shape,
>>> 
>>> I can’t possibly be the only one who read this and thought Steve needs to 
>>> quit beating his wife quite so much.  Sheesh
>>> 
>>> 
>>> (before anyone gets bent - I’m just joking around.   It fits in with 
>>> Steve’s body of work on this mailing list).
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> -- 
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> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

[Matt Hoppes]

I humbly disagree. 

I’ve been tracking this thing in China since it started in late December. 

I kept asking myself “why is the media NOT reporting on this?  They like to 
hype everything!”



> On Mar 1, 2020, at 6:53 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  
> wrote:
> 
> There are only a few things we know for sure.
> 
> 1. It is already in the US
> 2. More people in the US will get it
> 3. More people in the US will die.
> 
> Anything other than this is pure speculation at this point.  We don't know 
> anything about this virus.  Most everything I hear or read about this virus 
> starts off with the equivalent of "WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE".  But if you 
> bother to listen or read the article, it always has "may" or "some experts".  
> The current official incubation period is 2-14 days, but hey lets just report 
> 14 days and base all our models on this and report it as the most likely 
> scenario.  We don't know how long it lives on surfaces.  We don't know how it 
> reacts to UV light.  We don't know how it will do in warm/humid conditions.
> 
> My opinion (just as valid as anyone else's),  This virus has been in the 
> states before the first reported case.  People have had it and recovered 
> thinking it was just the flu. Not everyone exposed is going to get it.  Not 
> everyone who gets it is going to need to be hospitalized.  Not everyone who 
> gets hospitalized will die.
> 
> The media once again is doing us a huge dis-service. They are hyping this 
> thing  way out of proportion.  Was at Wal-mart yesterday. Every can of Lysol 
> or Lysol type of product was gone.  Every package of disinfectant wipes were 
> gone.  Every bottle of any sized hand sanitizer, gone.  Crazy.  The closest 
> reported "maybe" case is over 1300 miles away.  God forbid we get a reported 
> case in Florida, what will happen then?  Going to start burning and looting?
> 
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
> 
> --
> 
> Sunday, March 1, 2020, 3:55:47 PM, you wrote:
> 
> 
> I am not a doctor. I don't even play one on TV or any podcasts or blogs. I do 
> pay attention to as much scientifically-based information I can find though.
> This is a pretty good synopsis on our current knowledge without any spin:
> https://www.sciencenews.org/article/what-new-phase-coronavirus-outbreak-united-states-means-you
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 2/10/2020 8:53 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> 
> 
> Nazis are socialists.  Bernie is a socialist.  Therefore Bernie is a Nazi.  
> So the Internet says.
> 
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
> Sent: Monday, February 10, 2020 10:48 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu (was UBNT stock)
> 
> thats the secret, remember russia shafted the nazis last time... russia is in 
> asia, so russians are asians. Taking them out of the running too Weve 
> said too much
> 
> On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:45 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> Nazis also hate Communists.  It all fits.
> 
> On 2/10/2020 11:41 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
> 
> Im suprised that hasnt gotten traction. This is obviously genetically 
> designed to target Asians. The proof is that 99% of infections are asians. 
> Obviously this is the resurgence of the Nazi party trying to eliminate a 
> majority of the population so they can initiate another run at global 
> domination. My neighbors mom, Karen told me that her friend, carols husband 
> Brad told her that he heard that this is what brexit was all about. Germany 
> and Great Britian are forming an alliance now. Its all hush hush, but there 
> is a shadow government of guess what... Nazis.
> 
> On Mon, Feb 10, 2020 at 10:33 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> You mean.Nazi's created Coronavirus?
> 
> On 2/10/2020 11:30 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
> > I'm waiting for Godwin...
> >
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 2/10/2020 8:26 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
> >> The thing driving me nuts right now is that literally everything is a 
> >> "conspiracy".
> >>
> >> Sometimes stuff happens, nobody did it on purpose, and nobody has the 
> >> whole picture of what happened until more time passes. In the interim 
> >> there's a lot of conflicting information going around. People latch 
> >> onto early bits of information that turn out to be wrong and they 
> >> won't let go of them.
> >>
> >> Coronavirus was created by the Chinese to distract press from Hong Kong
> >>
> >> Coronavirus was created by the USA to defeat China in a trade war
> >>
> >> Coronavirus was created by Budweiser to discredit Mexican Lager (I 
> >> mean that one's obviously a joke.right?)
> >>
> >> Coronavirus will kill us all and we must all stock our survival bunkers.
> >>
> >> China is hiding all the information about Coronavirus.  Really? Or 
> >> maybe they just don't have a live real-time omniscient feed of all 
> >> information so they're reporting what they think is true at the time 
> >> it's said, or maybe rumors on Facebook aren't all 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

[Matt Hoppes]

What does China know that the rest of us don’t? Why are they shutting 
down their economy for over a month for “the flu”? This may be exactly 
what they know:


https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1002/jmv.25728

From the concluding paragraph:

Since SARS-CoV2 may conceal itself in the neurons from the immune 
recognition, complete clearance of the virus may not be guaranteed even 
the patients have recovered from the acute infection.


If you get infected, the virus might be stuck lurking inside you for 
LIFE! And it can leak out and get you sick again just like shingles.


Here’s another bombshell from the study quietly slipped in there:

In light of the high similarity between SARS-CoV and SARS-CoV2, it is 
quite likely that the potential neuroinvason of SARS-CoV-2 plays an 
important role in the acute respiratory failure of COVID-19 patients. 
According to the complaints of a survivor, the medical graduate student 
(24 years old) from Wuhan University, she must stay awake and breathe 
consciously and actively during the intensive care. She said that if she 
fell asleep, she might die because she had lost her natural breath.


That’s right, you may have to manually and consciously breathe due to 
the effect of the virus on your brain neurons.


This isn’t the flu folks. It’s time to wake up, pay attention to what’s 
going on around you, and prepare to potentially not leave your home for 
2-4 months.


--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

[Matt Hoppes]

China didn't make a hospital in 6 days, they made a concentration camp. 
 A place for folks to go to die.   There was limited medical care 
there just large open areas where people who were infected went to 
continually infect each other.


On 3/2/20 11:19 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
This is a new disease, but diseases aren't a new problem and we know 
pretty well what to do about them.


People were very impressed about China slapping up a hospital in 6 days, 
but it was just prefab buildings on a slab.


Fun timelapse: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53nhErXUd9A 



The Army Corps of Engineers can do that too.  It won't look the same as 
the Chinese one, but it will be a temporary rapid deployment building.


In the 1918 pandemic they took over schools, gymnasiums, large private 
houses, etc.  They also put a lot of patients into "open air 
hospitals".  AKA tents.


Article from NIH about 1918:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4504358/

A fun quote from above article:

"""Early in October 1918, a delegate from a health department in the US 
Midwest went east to find out how best to combat the infection. 
Officials there offered the following advice:


When you get back home, hunt up your wood-workers and cabinet-makers
and set them to making coffins. Then take your street laborers and
set them to digging graves. If you do this you will not have your
dead accumulating faster than you can dispose of them.^12
 ^(p787)

This was not meant to cause undue alarm; it was merely a practical 
solution to a problem that had to be addressed once the pandemic arrived."""




On 3/2/2020 11:00 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Maybe they can send it to us.  Today for the first time I heard the 
term “surge capacity” applied to hospital beds.  Person was saying US 
healthcare industry has made hospitals efficient same way as airlines, 
aim for zero empty beds, with the result that there’s not much surge 
capacity.  Let’s hope somebody’s looking at ways to open up more 
facilities in areas where outbreaks happen.  The Chinese weren’t 
stupid with their modular approach to quickly creating a field 
hospital.  Reminds me of MASH.  Time for a bug out!


I did a quick Google search for “hospital surge capacity” and the 
first page of results were mostly studies after Katrina.  A hurricane 
is worse because it closes down hospitals and pharmacies, eliminating 
capacity.  With the coronavirus what I suspect we need to guard 
against is infecting all the hospital staff and first responders so 
they get quarantined.  This appears to be happening with that nursing 
home in Kirkland, Washington.  25 firefighters are now quarantined as 
a precaution because they had been to that facility.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2020 8:44 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

Chinas closing their first hospital they built since they dont have 
enough patients


On Mon, Mar 2, 2020, 8:42 AM Bill Prince > wrote:


Perish the thought! 3-hour-old baguettes! I would rather die from
COVID-19 before eating an old baguette!

If I smoke another cigarette, I can aggravate my COPD and hasten
the end.

bp



On 3/2/2020 5:57 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Well, the French are screwed, they don’t even stock food for
tonight’s dinner.  Because who wants to eat 2 hour old
baguettes.  Probably the only thing in their pantry is
cigarettes and wine.  But at least if these are the end times,
they have cigarettes and wine while they watch the end.  Who
cares about Spam and Vienna sausages.

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2020 6:25 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

You need the disaster to occur to justify all your
preparation.  Some part of you is rooting for it.

Just a hypothesis.

On 3/1/2020 10:15 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

i never understood it, on the right, we tend to be the
most prepared. most of the die hard preppers are right
minded. we tend to be the most capable of utilizing primal
tools and food/water sources. if it goes boogity, we have
the best firepower and ammunition and training. so i never
understood why people on the right get very nervous about
these things. a lot like devout christians worying about
end times and rapture.

On Sun, Mar 1, 2020 at 8:09 PM Chuck McCown
mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

My oldest home - again son is much worse than you
guys.  He is very alt right too.  He might be Alex

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

[Matt Hoppes]

Agreed.

We should have shut down our borders 3 months ago when this first broke 
out in China... immediately.  No in or outbound travel of any sort.


Instead, we continued to allow folks to come and go as they pleased... 
finally shutting down travel to China, but continuing to allow travel to 
our nations, that are now infected.


How stupid are we to think that blocking travel to just China would fix 
the issue?  That folks in China wouldn't contaminate folks in other 
countries who would then be the route to the US?


We need to immediately quarantine every state, if not town in the US, 
and hold that quarantine for 60-90 days.   No coming or going from the 
town.   Work from home.


Yes, maybe it's "no bad yet", but why do we need to wait for it to get 
bad before we do something?


Here in the US we continually shut the barn door after the horse has 
gone through.  Often we shut a door specific for a kind of horse after 
that horse has gone through, allowing other horses to continue to get 
through.




On 3/2/20 11:20 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
or we could advocate calm and rational responses instead of all that 
stuff.


On 3/2/2020 11:09 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
The problem is the existing plague plans are being shut down by 
localities refusing to let them utilize spaces as was the design. Any 
place that refuses should never be allotted a single penny of federal 
funding for anything.

they have what, like 10k beds in the CDC quarantines.
There is no viable solution for a major outbreak in a city like 
chicago beyond patriots putting a fireline around the city and 
shooting anybody who tries to exit. Is what it is. Hopefully of it 
gets boogity, every town closes their highway off-ramps. If the media 
has their way with getting the hype up, the spread will be crazy from 
people fanning out rather than seeking care.

Thermal scopes on AR-15s are probably going to be a thing soon

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 10:01 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Maybe they can send it to us.  Today for the first time I heard
the term “surge capacity” applied to hospital beds.  Person was
saying US healthcare industry has made hospitals efficient same
way as airlines, aim for zero empty beds, with the result that
there’s not much surge capacity.  Let’s hope somebody’s looking at
ways to open up more facilities in areas where outbreaks happen. 
The Chinese weren’t stupid with their modular approach to quickly

creating a field hospital.  Reminds me of MASH.  Time for a bug out!

I did a quick Google search for “hospital surge capacity” and the
first page of results were mostly studies after Katrina.  A
hurricane is worse because it closes down hospitals and
pharmacies, eliminating capacity.  With the coronavirus what I
suspect we need to guard against is infecting all the hospital
staff and first responders so they get quarantined.  This appears
to be happening with that nursing home in Kirkland, Washington. 
25 firefighters are now quarantined as a precaution because they

had been to that facility.

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2020 8:44 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

Chinas closing their first hospital they built since they dont
have enough patients

On Mon, Mar 2, 2020, 8:42 AM Bill Prince mailto:part15...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Perish the thought! 3-hour-old baguettes! I would rather die
from COVID-19 before eating an old baguette!

If I smoke another cigarette, I can aggravate my COPD and
hasten the end.

bp



  


On 3/2/2020 5:57 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Well, the French are screwed, they don’t even stock food
for tonight’s dinner.  Because who wants to eat 2 hour old
baguettes.  Probably the only thing in their pantry is
cigarettes and wine.  But at least if these are the end
times, they have cigarettes and wine while they watch the
end. Who cares about Spam and Vienna sausages.

*From:* AF 
 *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2020 6:25 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

You need the disaster to occur to justify all your
preparation.  Some part of you is rooting for it.

Just a hypothesis.

On 3/1/2020 10:15 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

i never understood it, on the right, we tend to be the
most prepared. most of the die hard preppers are right
minded. we tend to be the most capable of utilizing
primal tools and food/water sources. if it goes
boogity, 

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

[Matt Hoppes]

I never complained about what China did.   I said it’s a bit extreme for the 
flu, don’t you think?

I don’t think this is “just the flu, bro”. 

> On Mar 2, 2020, at 11:33 AM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> Matt, I honestly am unsure where you really stand.  It seems like you 
> complain about a Draconian response in China while advocating one here.  I 
> don't get it.
> 
> 
>> On 3/2/2020 11:26 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Agreed.
>> 
>> We should have shut down our borders 3 months ago when this first broke out 
>> in China... immediately.  No in or outbound travel of any sort.
>> 
>> Instead, we continued to allow folks to come and go as they pleased... 
>> finally shutting down travel to China, but continuing to allow travel to our 
>> nations, that are now infected.
>> 
>> How stupid are we to think that blocking travel to just China would fix the 
>> issue?  That folks in China wouldn't contaminate folks in other countries 
>> who would then be the route to the US?
>> 
>> We need to immediately quarantine every state, if not town in the US, and 
>> hold that quarantine for 60-90 days.   No coming or going from the town.   
>> Work from home.
>> 
>> Yes, maybe it's "no bad yet", but why do we need to wait for it to get bad 
>> before we do something?
>> 
>> Here in the US we continually shut the barn door after the horse has gone 
>> through.  Often we shut a door specific for a kind of horse after that horse 
>> has gone through, allowing other horses to continue to get through.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 3/2/20 11:20 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>> or we could advocate calm and rational responses instead of all that 
>>> stuff.
>>> 
>>>> On 3/2/2020 11:09 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
>>>> The problem is the existing plague plans are being shut down by localities 
>>>> refusing to let them utilize spaces as was the design. Any place that 
>>>> refuses should never be allotted a single penny of federal funding for 
>>>> anything.
>>>> they have what, like 10k beds in the CDC quarantines.
>>>> There is no viable solution for a major outbreak in a city like chicago 
>>>> beyond patriots putting a fireline around the city and shooting anybody 
>>>> who tries to exit. Is what it is. Hopefully of it gets boogity, every town 
>>>> closes their highway off-ramps. If the media has their way with getting 
>>>> the hype up, the spread will be crazy from people fanning out rather than 
>>>> seeking care.
>>>> Thermal scopes on AR-15s are probably going to be a thing soon
>>>> 
>>>> On Mon, Mar 2, 2020 at 10:01 AM Ken Hohhof >>> <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Maybe they can send it to us.  Today for the first time I heard
>>>> the term “surge capacity” applied to hospital beds. Person was
>>>> saying US healthcare industry has made hospitals efficient same
>>>> way as airlines, aim for zero empty beds, with the result that
>>>> there’s not much surge capacity.  Let’s hope somebody’s looking at
>>>> ways to open up more facilities in areas where outbreaks happen. 
>>>> The Chinese weren’t stupid with their modular approach to quickly
>>>> creating a field hospital.  Reminds me of MASH.  Time for a bug out!
>>>> 
>>>> I did a quick Google search for “hospital surge capacity” and the
>>>> first page of results were mostly studies after Katrina. A
>>>> hurricane is worse because it closes down hospitals and
>>>> pharmacies, eliminating capacity.  With the coronavirus what I
>>>> suspect we need to guard against is infecting all the hospital
>>>> staff and first responders so they get quarantined.  This appears
>>>> to be happening with that nursing home in Kirkland, Washington. 25 
>>>> firefighters are now quarantined as a precaution because they
>>>> had been to that facility.
>>>> 
>>>> *From:* AF >>> <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>>> *Sent:* Monday, March 2, 2020 8:44 AM
>>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >>> <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu
>>>> 
>>>> Chinas closing their first hospital they built since they dont
>>>> have enough patients
>>>> 
&g

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

[Matt Hoppes]

There is a lot of bad information flying around here. 

An N95 or N100 mask absolutely will protect you from the virus IF WORN 
CORRECTLY. 

The majority of America won’t. 

For it to work properly:
It must be 100% air tight. When you exhale you should not feel air moving out 
the sides. 

There should be no facial hair. It should be tight around your nose. For best 
results run duct tape between the mask and your face. 

Additionally, air tight goggles are helpful depending on your situation. 

And of course, when removing the mask it must be removed without contamination 
of the face and the hands must then be decontaminated. 
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT prepping

[Matt Hoppes]

Water may keep running, but many of the chlorination supplies come from China 
and very well may hit a shortage in a few weeks. 

> On Mar 3, 2020, at 7:19 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> --f2d3ad059ffc5e63
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> Because bottled water is what you buy when you're preparing for impending
> doom... apparently.
> 
> I can see stocking up on a few weeks worth of supplies, so you can go out
> as little as possible, but the risk of losing power/water doesn't exactly
> seem high.
> 
> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 6:04 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
> 
>> I'm not sure why the water.   That is odd for the present situation.
>> 
>> I can definitely see the toilet paper, and other long-term shelf goods, as
>> I personally am looking at what I need to reverse-quarantine myself here
>> for a few weeks/months. But it's going to be to go ahead and restock
>> some stuff which has gotten low in the pantry (living 20 miles out of town
>> and largely working from home pretty much means that you keep a well
>> stocked pantry regardless of any personal prepper tendencies you may or may
>> not have, especially since a bad winter storm can mean that you don't want
>> to go into to town for a week or so).
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 4:55 PM  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I hear that Costco here sold out of water and toilet paper hoy.
>>> 
>>> I have two wells.  Both solar powered.
>>> Guess what, I can wash my a$$ with water
>>> 
>>> Do people think the municipal water works are going to cease working?
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> - Forrest
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
> 
> --f2d3ad059ffc5e63
> Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
> 
> Because bottled water is what you buy when you're prep=
> aring for impending doom... apparently.I can see stocki=
> ng up on a few weeks worth of supplies, so you can go out as little as poss=
> ible, but the risk of losing power/water doesn't exactly seem high. v> ">On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 6:04 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) < ef=3D"mailto:li...@packetflux.com";>li...@packetflux.com> wrote:<=
> /div> rder-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I&#=
> 39;m not sure why the water.=C2=A0 =C2=A0That is odd for the present si=
> tuation.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I can definitely see the toilet pa=
> per, and other long-term shelf goods, as I personally am looking at what I =
> need to reverse-quarantine myself here for a few weeks/months.=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
> =C2=A0But it's going to be to go ahead and restock some stuff which ha=
> s gotten low in the pantry (living 20 miles out of town and largely working=
> from home pretty much means that you keep a well stocked pantry regardless=
> of any personal prepper tendencies you may or may not have, especially sin=
> ce a bad winter storm can mean that you don't want to go into to town f=
> or a week or so). =3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 =
> at 4:55 PM chuck@w=
> bmfg.com> wrote: "margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-le=
> ft:1ex">
> 
> 
> 
> I hear that Costco here sold out of water and toilet paper hoy.
> =C2=A0
> I have two wells.=C2=A0 Both solar powered.=C2=A0 
> Guess what, I can wash my a$$ with water
> =C2=A0
> Do people think the municipal water works are going to cease=20
> working?
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> mailto:AF@af.afmug.com"; target=3D"_blank">AF@af.afmug.com> 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com"; rel=3D"nor=
> eferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug=
> .com
> -- > - Forrest
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> mailto:AF@af.afmug.com"; target=3D"_blank">AF@af.afmug.com> 
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com"; rel=3D"nor=
> eferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug=
> .com
> 
> 
> --f2d3ad059ffc5e63--
> 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu

[Matt Hoppes]

There are now two version of the virus:

S-Cov and L-Cov.

L-Cov is what is believed to have gone through Wuhan and is extremely fatal.

S-Cov is less fatal.

What is here in the U.S. is unknown at this point.

On 3/4/20 10:17 AM, castarritt . wrote:
I see a lot of people in other forums that seem to think the virus won't 
be as dangerous in the US because 'murica, but looking my average fellow 
Americans and our rate of comorbidities, I'm not so sure about that.  
Also, this:


https://starecat.com/content/wp-content/uploads/transporting-an-infected-person-china-italy-usa-comparison-corona-virus.jpg

On Wed, Mar 4, 2020 at 2:29 AM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:


This is not good news:


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/03/who-says-coronavirus-death-rate-is-3point4percent-globally-higher-than-previously-thought.html


On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 8:56 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

Wow, that is sad.  Really brings the whole situation home.

-Original Message-
From: Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, March 3, 2020 7:12 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu


This is one I didn't expect. My nephew's father just came back
from a
cruise and he's now in a hospital in Sacramento. We've been told
he has
COVID-19, and he is not expected to survive. He is in his mid 70s.


bp


On 3/2/2020 9:56 AM, Robert Andrews wrote:
 > Everyone wears them in China ( hence the deaths going down )
to prevent
 > you from touching mouth or nose and goggles for eyes, if in
public. If you
 > want to get the R0  (R naught) below two and get ahead of
this you _must_
 > stop people from passing.    Part of the reason not to touch
is also to
 > keep people from picking it up on surfaces as there is a
pretty good body
 > of evidence that it lasts multiple days on paper and plastic
and 1-2 days
 > on everything else.  YES UV helps but this is a much tougher
little bugger
 > than the common flu..
 >
 > On 03/02/2020 09:27 AM, Bill Prince wrote:
 >> The advice is that masks don't really protect you. OTOH,
they say if you
 >> ARE infected that you should wear a mask. The idea is that
masks don't
 >> really keep the virus out, but they can help in keeping the
virus in.
 >>
 >>
 >> bp
 >> 
 >>
 >> On 3/2/2020 9:14 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
 >>> Surgeon General tells people not to buy masks.
 >>>
 >>> Uhh hello?  The richest most "ready" country in the world
doesn't have a
 >>> 6 month supply of masks in storage ready for such an
event?  What the
 >>> heck?
 >>>
 >>> --
 >>> Steven Kenney
 >>> Network Operations Manager
 >>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
 >>> http://www.wavedirect.net
 >>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
 >>>
 >>>


 >>>
 >>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" mailto:af...@kwisp.com>>
 >>> *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
 >>> *Sent: *Monday, March 2, 2020 11:00:25 AM
 >>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT: Corona-fu
 >>>
 >>> Maybe they can send it to us.  Today for the first time I
heard the term
 >>> “surge capacity” applied to hospital beds. Person was
saying US
 >>> healthcare industry has made hospitals efficient same way
as airlines,
 >>> aim for zero empty beds, with the result that there’s not
much surge
 >>> capacity.  Let’s hope somebody’s looking at ways to open up
more
 >>> facilities in areas where outbreaks happen.  The Chinese
weren’t stupid
 >>> with their modular approach to quickly creating a field
hospital.
 >>> Reminds me of MASH.  Time for a bug out!
 >>>
 >>> I did a quick Google search for “hospital surge capacity”
and the first
 >>> page of results were mostly studies after Katrina. A
hurricane is worse
 >>> because it closes down hospitals and pharmacies,
eliminating capacity.
 >>> With the coronavirus what I suspect we need to guard
against is
 >>> infecting all the hospital staff and first responders so
they get
 >>> quarantined.  This appears to be happening with that
nursing home in
 >>> Kirkland, Washington.  25 firefighters are now quarantined
as a
 >>> precaution because they had been to that facility.
 >>>
 >>> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
 

Re: [AFMUG] OT prepping

[Matt Hoppes]

RemindMe! 7 days

I doubt it's the WuFlu... it has an incubation period of 4-14 days with 
the initial symptoms being mild.


On 3/4/20 11:28 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
Let’s hope it’s just regular flu.  Is she going to get tested?  Probably 
want to know in case other employees need to self quarantine.


My son is sick this morning, but that’s because he’s a Bernie Bro.  No 
vaccine for that yet.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Wednesday, March 4, 2020 9:52 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT prepping

My main production manager is sick this morning.  She is the one that 
opened the PCBs from China a couple of days ago...


*From:*Forrest Christian (List Account)

*Sent:*Wednesday, March 4, 2020 1:18 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT prepping

So...

Costco here looks like a prepper warehouse.   The entire back wall is 
paper towels/toilet paper which is pretty typical, although it has also 
spilled down both sides of the warehouse and all the empty spots seem to 
have a case of paper towels or toilet paper in it.  I'm guessing someone 
at costco corporate figured this out months ago and has started sending 
this stuff to all the warehouses.   We've just avoided the hysteria so 
far, but all it's going to take is a few cases in montana and I'm sure 
that they will sell all of this and more.


Still plenty of water everywhere.   Safeway even had a 'must buy 3 to 
get the deal' special on water at the front door with a big pile of water.


The only thing which is completely sold out everywhere is hand sanitizer.

-forrest

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 5:03 PM Forrest Christian (List Account) 
mailto:li...@packetflux.com>> wrote:


I'm not sure why the water.   That is odd for the present
situation.

I can definitely see the toilet paper, and other long-term shelf
goods, as I personally am looking at what I need to
reverse-quarantine myself here for a few weeks/months. But it's
going to be to go ahead and restock some stuff which has gotten low
in the pantry (living 20 miles out of town and largely working from
home pretty much means that you keep a well stocked pantry
regardless of any personal prepper tendencies you may or may not
have, especially since a bad winter storm can mean that you don't
want to go into to town for a week or so).

On Tue, Mar 3, 2020 at 4:55 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:

I hear that Costco here sold out of water and toilet paper hoy.

I have two wells.  Both solar powered.

Guess what, I can wash my a$$ with water

Do people think the municipal water works are going to cease
working?

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

[Matt Hoppes]

You still send checks?  I use my bank's online bill pay.  Haven't licked 
an envelope in years.


On 3/6/20 1:24 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I was paying bills for the business yesterday and must have licked two dozen
envelopes.

Afterward, I thought, should I not be doing that?  If so, I wonder if tape
or a glue stick or a wet sponge is the way to go.  And then wash your hands
after opening all those bills from who knows where.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, March 6, 2020 11:36 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Coronavirus Passes Over Houses With Chick-Fil-A Sauce Smeared On Door Posts



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

[Matt Hoppes]

You’re really making light of this serious situation aren’t you?

> On Mar 8, 2020, at 9:26 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> --216fbc05a061e421
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
> 
> welp, guys, was nice knowing you. An amtrak train had apparently stopped in
> my town with an infected passenger. Thats the end of that. Already took the
> family out to the garden and put them down, now I just wait for sweet death.
> 
>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 3:53 PM James Howard  wrote:
>> 
>> Might want to switch to peeing on them to avoid spreading anything.
>> According to the news stories droplets of saliva and rubbing your eyes are
>> the ways it gets spread.  Urine might give you even more dominance than
>> spit anyway.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> *From:* A

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

[Matt Hoppes]

More people being tested means two things:

1) the death rate goes way down
2) the death rate goes way up, because we currently have folks dying of 
pneumonia that wasn’t the flu. 

> On Mar 8, 2020, at 11:30 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  
> wrote:
> 
> I'm  going  to  Disney  World this coming Friday.  Went into town this
> weekend, stopped  by  5-6  stores including lunch out.  I have an
> employee going on a cruise next week.
> 
> We have had two confirmed cases in our county.
> 
> It is what it is, I'm not going to hide under a rock.  Let's keep this
> in  perspective.   Currently the total infection rate per 1 million in
> the  US  is  1.6.   S. Korea has the highest infection rate at 144 per
> million.   That  infection  rate  not  death rate.  Death rate is even
> lower.
> 
> If you are under 50 years old, your death chances are under 0.5%.  
> 
> It  is  going to go up.  Now that both Quest Labs and Labcorp are both
> doing  testing,  more  people  will  get  tested.  More people getting
> tested, means more people being counted as a case.
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
> 
> Myakka Technologies, Inc.
> www.Myakka.com
> 
> --
> 
> Sunday, March 8, 2020, 9:51:23 PM, you wrote:
> 
> MH> You’re really making light of this serious situation aren’t you?
> 
>>> On Mar 8, 2020, at 9:26 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
>>> 
>>> --216fbc05a061e421
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>>> 
>>> welp, guys, was nice knowing you. An amtrak train had apparently stopped in
>>> my town with an infected passenger. Thats the end of that. Already took the
>>> family out to the garden and put them down, now I just wait for sweet death.
>>> 
 On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 3:53 PM James Howard  wrote:
 
 Might want to switch to peeing on them to avoid spreading anything.
 According to the news stories droplets of saliva and rubbing your eyes are
 the ways it gets spread.  Urine might give you even more dominance than
 spit anyway.
 
 
 
 *From:* A
> 
> 
> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

[Matt Hoppes]

Correct. It could go either way. 

> On Mar 9, 2020, at 7:46 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) 
>  wrote:
> 
> Let me see If I can agree with what I think you're saying:
> 
> 1) Currently we're pre-selecting for people who are in a hospital with 
> something looking like nCov and which got tested.   We don't currently know 
> how many people have it but didn't get tested and as such isn't counted as an 
> infected person.   As we improve our testing ability, we'll find more cases 
> which aren't hospitalization (and possible subsequent death) cases, pushing 
> the rate lower.
> 
> 2) Because we are testing more we'll also be able to tell that some of the 
> cases that we aren't attributing to nCov are actually nCov cases, pushing the 
> rate higher.
> 
> Does that describe what you're saying?
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 5:09 AM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> More people being tested means two things:
>> 
>> 1) the death rate goes way down
>> 2) the death rate goes way up, because we currently have folks dying of 
>> pneumonia that wasn’t the flu. 
>> 
>> > On Mar 8, 2020, at 11:30 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies  
>> > wrote:
>> > 
>> > I'm  going  to  Disney  World this coming Friday.  Went into town this
>> > weekend, stopped  by  5-6  stores including lunch out.  I have an
>> > employee going on a cruise next week.
>> > 
>> > We have had two confirmed cases in our county.
>> > 
>> > It is what it is, I'm not going to hide under a rock.  Let's keep this
>> > in  perspective.   Currently the total infection rate per 1 million in
>> > the  US  is  1.6.   S. Korea has the highest infection rate at 144 per
>> > million.   That  infection  rate  not  death rate.  Death rate is even
>> > lower.
>> > 
>> > If you are under 50 years old, your death chances are under 0.5%.  
>> > 
>> > It  is  going to go up.  Now that both Quest Labs and Labcorp are both
>> > doing  testing,  more  people  will  get  tested.  More people getting
>> > tested, means more people being counted as a case.
>> > 
>> > --
>> > Best regards,
>> > Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com
>> > 
>> > Myakka Technologies, Inc.
>> > www.Myakka.com
>> > 
>> > --
>> > 
>> > Sunday, March 8, 2020, 9:51:23 PM, you wrote:
>> > 
>> > MH> You’re really making light of this serious situation aren’t you?
>> > 
>> >>> On Mar 8, 2020, at 9:26 PM, Steve Jones  
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> 
>> >>> --216fbc05a061e421
>> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>> >>> 
>> >>> welp, guys, was nice knowing you. An amtrak train had apparently stopped 
>> >>> in
>> >>> my town with an infected passenger. Thats the end of that. Already took 
>> >>> the
>> >>> family out to the garden and put them down, now I just wait for sweet 
>> >>> death.
>> >>> 
>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 3:53 PM James Howard  wrote:
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> Might want to switch to peeing on them to avoid spreading anything.
>> >>>> According to the news stories droplets of saliva and rubbing your eyes 
>> >>>> are
>> >>>> the ways it gets spread.  Urine might give you even more dominance than
>> >>>> spit anyway.
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> 
>> >>>> *From:* A
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > AF mailing list
>> > AF@af.afmug.com
>> > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> - Forrest
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica

[Matt Hoppes]

The other problem is WISPA is not giving refunds to folks who "don't go 
because of the virus".


On 3/11/20 2:18 PM, Carl Peterson wrote:

"If you're concerned about getting sick, just don't go."

IMHO, it isn't about you, it is about being a responsible member of 
society.  I'm not judging, or saying we are at that point, but there is 
a point at which the responsible thing to do is cancel large gatherings 
to flatten the curve.


On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 1:15 PM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:


If you're concerned about getting sick, just don't go.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 1:59 PM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:

I’m sorry folks but this conference really should be canceled
for the safety of everyone.

Thank you to Sonar For their brave decision yesterday to pull out.

I know this would be a hardship for WISPA’s finances so I think
we should all pull together to make sure WISPA doesn’t suffer
financially.  We need WISPA and our members to be healthy and
strong both physically and financially.


https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-11/coronavirus-advice-from-bioethicists-cancel-that-conference

https://youtu.be/E3URhJx0NSw

Best regards,

-Sean

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Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica

[Matt Hoppes]

Attending the conference sends a strong message that we are selfish and 
don't care about anyone but ourselves.


 We have a duty to social distance now - for our elderly, for your 
healthcare providers, for every neighbor who may need a hospital bed. 
Doing your part to slow the spread is showing love and respect to us all.


A key reason to social distance now is to flatten out the peak of the 
pandemic. If we all get sick at the same time, many more die. Italy 
shows nearly 50 percent of cases needing hospitalization. We have to 
slow this down enough to allow any that get it to have a decent shot at 
a hospital bed and care. Not just that! We must slow it down so that any 
of our neighbors with ANY ailment has a hospital bed available. Those 
other ailments don't stop just because of this pandemic.


The longer we can slow the spread, the more we learn about what works 
against it. It's more time to get drugs and treatments. More time to 
potential develope a vaccine. This may become an endemic and we are not 
going to isolate forever. There may be a time when we all go out, but 
bow instead of shaking hands. Maybe wearing masks or gloves.


We will find a way to be the free, fearless people we want to be. But 
first we must slow the exponential growth, support our healthcare 
providers by giving them less patients at once, support our neighbors 
when they have milder cases at home, and respect one another by doing 
our part to avoid spreading this virus.


Please consider what you can do to show everyone love and respect by 
being cautious. No matter the personal risk to you, your neighbor needs 
you.


On 3/11/20 3:27 PM, Keefe John via Wireless wrote:
"The WISP industry is a strong and resilient one. We’re dedicated and 
fearless. Attending WISPAMERICA sends a strong signal to others in the 
communications industry, policymakers and your communities that you will 
remain strong even in light of the day’s loud and oftentimes distracting 
news coverage and circumstances. The novel coronavirus is not to be 
sniffed at, but its risks are manageable – WISPs will not let these 
events paralyze their service to customers and the community at large."



Keefe John
CEO
Ethoplex
Direct: 262.345.5200

Ethoplex Business Internet
http://www.ethoplex.com/
Signal Residential Internet
http://www.signalisp.com/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/keefejohn/


On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:09 PM Josh Luthman 
mailto:j...@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:



https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html?fbclid=IwAR0Hvia4VtxJ1AjJZaTv40aive3k79kdTmOfjt_vGkGz7o4XuY4ZnRO02-Y#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6


image.png

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 2:59 PM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:

https://www.flattenthecurve.com/



On Wed, Mar 11, 2020 at 11:58 AM Sean Heskett mailto:af...@zirkel.us>> wrote:

I’m sorry folks but this conference really should be
canceled for the safety of everyone.

Thank you to Sonar For their brave decision yesterday to
pull out.

I know this would be a hardship for WISPA’s finances so I
think we should all pull together to make sure WISPA doesn’t
suffer financially.  We need WISPA and our members to be
healthy and strong both physically and financially.


https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-03-11/coronavirus-advice-from-bioethicists-cancel-that-conference

https://youtu.be/E3URhJx0NSw

Best regards,

-Sean

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Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica

[Matt Hoppes]

I am prepared to make purchases of WISP, cash sale I'll be here in 
three weeks.


Please have your P&L statements, customer attrition and gain rates 
easily available, and a price in mind when you contact me.


On 3/11/20 4:24 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
The chinese chart showed an exponential growth for a few weeks then it 
did a decline, almost an exponential decay type of curve.
But I agree, WISPCON is gonna decimate the industry... so it would be 
good for all of you to attend... I will stay back to take care of things...


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Re: [AFMUG] [WISPA Members] [WISPA] COVID-19 and WISPAmerica

[Matt Hoppes]

"Almost all of our attendees and vendors are interested in continuing 
the show, which means the show will go on. We have made significant 
financial and operational commitments in reliance on attendee which has 
not waned. Out of an abundance of caution we have put in place many 
safety protocols to minimize the likelihood of COVID-19 and/or other 
infectious disease transmission.


Since the show is continuing, we must stick to our stated policies of 
not offering refunds. We have already made financial and operational 
commitments in reliance on your participation in the show, and that 
means we have to stick to our policies. I hope you can understand."



INTERPRETATION:  WISPA can not cancel this show no matter what, because 
we need the income to pay for the show, which is already reserved.We 
most likely don't have event insurance either.  So while we understand 
your concerns, we are extremely sorry but there's just no way we can 
refund your money and we are going to expose everyone who comes to an 
ever increasing risk.   Please understand, money comes before safety.


On 3/11/20 4:25 PM, jerry bickle wrote:
Trina, can you let us know the WISPA’s position of refunding conference 
fees?


Thanks,

Jerry Bickle

President



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Re: [AFMUG] are liquor stores essential? pot stores?

[Matt Hoppes]

Liquor Stores are essential because if you cut off alcohol from 
alcoholics they can experience severe medical issues.


On 3/22/20 3:02 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I noticed in the Illinois governor’s order, pot stores are essential and 
can stay open.  Now I heard on CNN that in New York, liquor stores are 
deemed essential and can stay open.


The city of Aurora here in Illinois is allowing restaurants to sell 
package liquor with takeout or delivery food orders of at least $10.  
That kinda makes sense.  So you can get a six pack with your pizza.  I’m 
also noticing restaurants that never had delivery, takeout or drivethru 
getting creative about curbside pickup.  Typically call from your 
cellphone when you get there and they bring your order out to you.





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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Matt Hoppes]

They shot their one and only infected person.

On 3/19/20 2:37 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
I still believe North Korea has a huge problem that they are covering 
up.  Especially in the labor camps.  Communal sleeping barns etc.  No 
sanitation facilities.

*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, March 19, 2020 12:34 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

Only if they attribute it properly. There is plenty of data to indicate 
that deaths have been incorrectly attributed,


bp


On 3/19/2020 11:09 AM, James Howard wrote:

the death count is the death count



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Re: [AFMUG] OT: virus anomalies

[Matt Hoppes]

Regarding the China numbers... there are 3 Chinese mobile telephone 
companies, all owned by the government.


In February, they reported a TOTAL (all 3) loss of 10 million + lines.
Now, you can attribute some of those to job loss... but not all of them.

Deaths?  I suspect the death count in China is massively underreported.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT: Price Gouging

[Matt Hoppes]

We are doing it with one of the county governments we service. 

They probably have an arrangement to use ATT or something. Why would you pay 
for a build when you have two other carriers already there?

> On Mar 27, 2020, at 5:02 PM, Nate Burke  wrote:
> 
> I'm guessing the telco's are exempt from price gouging.  We just saw an 
> emergency underground locate come through so that AT&T could do a 2000' bore 
> into a building to provide 'covid19 command center' There are already 2 other 
> fiber providers in the building, and we could reach it via Microwave.  I'm 
> thinking the sales guy made his yearly commission on that circuit, as I can't 
> see AT&T doing an install at that speed out of the goodness of their 
> heart   I'm guessing similar things are being done all over the country.
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] [ External ] Re: CNHeat

[Matt Hoppes]

Is the pricing $12.50/site now?

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Re: [AFMUG] Oneweb is apparently bankrupt

[Matt Hoppes]

Ooops

> On Mar 29, 2020, at 3:13 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> And another one bites the dust.
> 
> https://www.wired.com/story/spacex-competitor-oneweb-is-reportedly-bankrupt/
> 
> -- 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] 5.9

[Matt Hoppes]

Correct it is 60 days only at this point, with the possibility to renew it 
should this continue .

> On Mar 31, 2020, at 3:00 PM, David Coudron  
> wrote:
> 
> The initial STA is only for 60 days as I understand it.   From what I have 
> read, it doesn’t look to be permanent.
>  
> Regards,
>  
> David Coudron
>  
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 1:57 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 5.9
>  
> How permanent is this likely to be?
> One could think all of the manufacturers could roll out the software without 
> much effort.
> But perhaps part 15 testing would have to be done before they can sell them?
>  
> From: SmarterBroadband
> Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2020 12:54 PM
> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> Subject: [AFMUG] 5.9
>  
> So 33 companies have STAs from the FCC to use 45MHz of the 5.9 band to 
> increase bandwidth during the Covid crisis.
>  
> What gear will support this?   450?   ePMP?
>  
> Adam
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Re: [AFMUG] 5.9

[Matt Hoppes]

This isn't to move off.. this is to add... augment... capacity.

On 3/31/20 3:18 PM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:
My concern is after the 60 days, I have to move all those APs back to 
the original congested 5GHz space.
Is it worth it the time/trouble?  If I move off of a channel for 60 
days, maybe someone else in the vicinity might start using it since it’s 
clearer now?



On Mar 31, 2020, at 1:05 PM, Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


Correct it is 60 days only at this point, with the possibility to 
renew it should this continue .


On Mar 31, 2020, at 3:00 PM, David Coudron 
mailto:david.coud...@advantenon.com>> 
wrote:


The initial STA is only for 60 days as I understand it.   From what I 
have read, it doesn’t look to be permanent.

Regards,
David Coudron
*From:*AF <mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>>*On Behalf Of*ch...@wbmfg.com 
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>

*Sent:*Tuesday, March 31, 2020 1:57 PM
*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] 5.9
How permanent is this likely to be?
One could think all of the manufacturers could roll out the software 
without much effort.
But perhaps part 15 testing would have to be done before they can 
sell them?

*From:*SmarterBroadband
*Sent:*Tuesday, March 31, 2020 12:54 PM
*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:*[AFMUG] 5.9
So 33 companies have STAs from the FCC to use 45MHz of the 5.9 band 
to increase bandwidth during the Covid crisis.

What gear will support this?   450?   ePMP?
Adam

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Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti stock

[Matt Hoppes]

Bahahaha. 

> On Mar 31, 2020, at 7:30 PM,   wrote:
> 
> And Matt was right all along...
>  
> 
>>> On 2/7/2020 9:40 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> There have been two fatalities THAT WE KNOW OF.   We've only just started.  
>>> It's been an extremely rough flu season here in the U.S maybe it's not 
>>> the flu? 
>>> 
>>> 2019-nCoV has a 14 week incubation period... meaning spreading is happening 
>>> before people even know it -- thus making this particularly dangerous. 
>>> 
>>> In about the next two weeks we'll have a much better picture on what's 
>>> going on and what's going to  be going on, but on CN and elsewhere in the 
>>> world. 
>>> 
>>> The problem right now is it takes 14 days to incubate and about 7 days to 
>>> get a report back on a positive/negative test culture, so there is a very 
>>> long lag and we are currently sitting in it. 
>>> 
>>> Now I ask you: is the reason there have only been 2 fatalities because the 
>>> health care systems are not yet overwhelmed elsewhere? 
>>> 
>>>> On 2/7/20 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote: 
>>>> You don't have to "trust" the Chinese, but you can probably trust the 
>>>> reports from everywhere else. The fact is that there have been 2 
>>>> fatalities outside of mainland China. 
>>>> 
>>>> Just stay away from bat soup. 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> bp 
>>>>  
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/7/2020 9:00 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote: 
>>>>> So let me get this straight. A virus that is not a big deal has caused 
>>>>> China to: 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Send the president into hiding 
>>>>> Build several emergency hospitals 
>>>>> Lock down major cities 
>>>>> Extend the CNY 
>>>>> In some cases barricade people in their homes 
>>>>> Daily fumigation of streets 
>>>>> Crematories running 24x7 to burning the dead bodies 
>>>>> People being forcibly removed from their homes and taken into quarantine 
>>>>> Suspicious deaths around doctors revealing information 
>>>>> Extreme China censorship even to U. S. online forums 
>>>>> 
>>>>> China has also sent out a blank response to their citizens for anyone 
>>>>> dealing in international trade. If asked how things are going they all 
>>>>> respond with extremely similar answers about how everything is contained 
>>>>> in Wuhan and things are fine. Literally down to the same wording in 
>>>>> cases. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Tell me. What does China know about this “not a big deal Virus” that we 
>>>>> don’t that they are willing to risk their economy? 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Bill Prince >>>>> mailto:part15...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This thing is being overblown in a big way. First, the fatality rate is 
>>>>>> below 2% (which is pretty low as far as these things go). Second, the 
>>>>>> infectiousness is fairly low as well; somewhere between 1.5 and 3 
>>>>>> (measles by comparison is rated at 15). 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> So the virus is not all that infectious, and it is not all that fatal. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Fear driven journalism. 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> bp 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/7/2020 8:20 AM, Steve Jones wrote: 
>>>>>>> https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
>>>>>>>  the map 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 10:19 AM Steve Jones >>>>>> mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> this is the Johns Hopkins map 
>>>>>>> Pretty much all the prediction models of global pandemic have 
>>>>>>> been wrong. Recoveries are out pacing deaths. It hasnt spread 
>>>>>>> outside china beyond the two people who had sex with people who 
>>>>>>> had been infected in china. theyre offloading a cruise ship in 
>>>>>>> New Jersey today apparently so our numbers will have a small 
>>>&g

Re: [AFMUG] Ubiquiti stock

[Matt Hoppes]

I mean.. it's close... wait and see :P

On 3/31/20 7:57 PM, Steve Jones wrote:

matt said the world would be dead by now


On Tue, Mar 31, 2020 at 6:44 PM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


Bahahaha.

On Mar 31, 2020, at 7:30 PM, mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>>
wrote:


And Matt was right all along...

    On 2/7/2020 9:40 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

There have been two fatalities THAT WE KNOW OF.   We've only
just started.  It's been an extremely rough flu season here
in the U.S maybe it's not the flu?

2019-nCoV has a*14 week incubation period*... meaning
spreading is happening before people even know it -- thus
making this particularly dangerous.

In about the next two weeks we'll have a much better picture
on what's going on and what's going to  be going on, but on
CN and elsewhere in the world.

The problem right now is it takes 14 days to incubate and
about 7 days to get a report back on a positive/negative test
culture, so there is a very long lag and we are currently
sitting in it.

Now I ask you: is the reason there have only been 2
fatalities because the health care systems are not yet
overwhelmed elsewhere?

On 2/7/20 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

You don't have to "trust" the Chinese, but you can probably
trust the reports from everywhere else. The fact is that
there have been 2 fatalities outside of mainland China.

Just stay away from bat soup.


bp


On 2/7/2020 9:00 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

So let me get this straight. A virus that is not a big deal
has caused China to:

Send the president into hiding
Build several emergency hospitals
Lock down major cities
Extend the CNY
In some cases barricade people in their homes
Daily fumigation of streets
Crematories running 24x7 to burning the dead bodies
People being forcibly removed from their homes and taken
into quarantine
Suspicious deaths around doctors revealing information
Extreme China censorship even to U. S. online forums

China has also sent out a blank response to their citizens
for anyone dealing in international trade. If asked how
things are going they all respond with extremely similar
answers about how everything is contained in Wuhan and
things are fine. Literally down to the same wording in cases.

Tell me. What does China know about this “not a big deal
Virus” that we don’t that they are willing to risk their
economy?

On Feb 7, 2020, at 11:29 AM, Bill Prince
mailto:part15...@gmail.com> wrote:


This thing is being overblown in a big way. First, the
fatality rate is below 2% (which is pretty low as far as
these things go). Second, the infectiousness is fairly low
as well; somewhere between 1.5 and 3 (measles by
comparison is rated at 15).

So the virus is not all that infectious, and it is not all
that fatal.

Fear driven journalism.


bp


On 2/7/2020 8:20 AM, Steve Jones wrote:


https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/bda7594740fd40299423467b48e9ecf6
the map

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 10:19 AM Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

    this is the Johns Hopkins map
    Pretty much all the prediction models of global
pandemic have
    been wrong. Recoveries are out pacing deaths. It
hasnt spread
outside china beyond the two people who had sex with
people who
    had been infected in china. theyre offloading a
cruise ship in
    New Jersey today apparently so our numbers will have
a small
    jump. Its a 3rd world respiratory illness. chinese
air is the
    dirtiest on the planet.
    I have a tool that shipped out of Wuhan a few weeks
ago, i will
    lick it when it gets here and then come breath on
people.

    UBNT probably is dropping because theyre not a CBRS
LTE Player
    and theyre kind of stagnant in general right now

    On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 10:10 AM Ken Hohhof
mailto:af...@kwisp.com> wrote:

    I don’t follow UBNT but I would have to guess it has
    something to do with the Wuhan virus and the fact
that all
    their stuff is made in China?

    I have been tempted to post asking if any WISPs
are starting
    to stockpile equipment that might be in short
supply this

Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having Cambium CBRS issues this afternoon?

[Matt Hoppes]

Didn’t I say this would happen?

And I was a shored by the vendors, the SAS providers, and everyone else that 
this wouldn’t happen.

Here we are not even really into full production and a provider is down and 
people have customers down because the grounds don’t last more than five 
minutes.

These grants need to at least last 24 hours if not longer, for this type of 
situation.

> On Apr 6, 2020, at 3:05 PM, Josh Luthman  wrote:
> 
> Mark @ Amplex said he has problems with CNM + Federated.
> 
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 2:34 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> I have multiple sectors apparently having SAS heartbeat timeouts and getting 
>> their grants terminated.  Which is bad, bad, bad, because customers go down 
>> when that happens.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Separate but unrelated, I am having problems with v14 of the import 
>> spreadsheet template they just released, two error messages, can’t import to 
>> add SMs or sectors.
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT masks

[Matt Hoppes]

Very confused by this story. Other people wearing masks made fun of you wearing 
a mask?

> On Apr 7, 2020, at 9:43 PM,   wrote:
> 
> Put on gloves and a mask to pick up a few things at the grocery store.  
> Walked in and there was a construction worker in a mask, then a soccer 
> mom then a skinny redneck, with his skinny redneck wife.  Started 
> clucking like a chicken when he saw me and his wife was taking a video.  Was 
> not quite calling me a chicken loud enough that I could clearly make out 
> exactly what he was doing, but was grandstanding for his skanky woman
>  
> Funny how fast my natural pugilistic nature of my youth sprung into action.  
> I literally had to stop myself from backing him into a display of pork and 
> beans with some comments of “you got a problem with me”.  Visions of a throat 
> punch were clear in my head...
>  
> But I calmed myself, reminded myself that going to jail or the ER or a 
> dentist would not be fun this evening, and moved alone.  Ran into a handful 
> of other chickens on the way out the store. 
> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] cnMaestro and Offline Devices

[Matt Hoppes]

We constantly have this issue with cnPilots.  They come and go as they 
please, and a few seem to have just checked out all together, even 
though they are there.


On 4/11/20 5:45 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm working to get more sites into cnMeastro.  One of my sites with 
about 50SM's had an area power outage, and 80% of the SM's rebooted, the 
APs stayed online.  Even though all the SM's were back within 2 minutes, 
cnMaestro said 12 SM's were offline for over 12 hours.  Is this normal? 
I would have expected cnMaestro to have more accurate reporting, 
especially if they're expecting this to be used as an NMS and not just 
an upgrade tool.






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Re: [AFMUG] Market saturation

[Matt Hoppes]

We see about 50% take rate even when we are the only option. 

> On Apr 15, 2020, at 6:26 AM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
> 
> I’m thinking around 85%.   Some depends on your market.   We have a few areas 
> where I think about 5% of the housing is abandoned.  Take another 10% that 
> are not interested.  There is an older population that just isn’t interested 
> or that their needs are met by iPads and cellular.
> 
> That 85% number seems consistent for us on both wireless and fiber routes.   
> 
> Mark
> 
>> On Apr 15, 2020, at 12:29 AM, Steve Jones  wrote:
>> 
>> What percentage of rural customers would you all consider saturated?
>> 
>> I have access to some new datasets and it disturbing. It's good disturbing, 
>> but unanticipated. 
>> 
>> May be bad.
>> 
>> Is there a rural percentage of capture that is considered saturated as a 
>> standard? 100 percent is what we all want. But there are customers who dont 
>> want, or simply cannot afford internet access. There has to be some numbers 
>> out there.
>> 
>> I doubt government numbers count, since government is dumb. Where does a 
>> simpleton such as myself go to find out what is considered saturated?
>> 
>> Say I touch 1000 households. What is the percentage of capture that 
>> marketing is no longer recommended? If I have 500 of them, I'd think that's 
>> pretty good, maybe even saturated between lack of need, want, or ability and 
>> offset by whatever percentage per terrain would be co sided unservicable. 
>> I'd assume my midwest flatlands unservicable would be different than Johnny 
>> paychecks Arkansas hills unservicable.
>> 
>> These numbers have to be somewhere
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] And there we have it....

[Matt Hoppes]

“The Norwalk, Connecticut-based company estimated its assets and liabilities 
both in the range of $10 billion to $50 billion”

That’s a rather. Uhhh. Large range. 

I feel like that’s like me saying our assets are somewhere between $10,000 and 
$150,000.

How do you not know what you have? Of course that might be why they’re in the 
situation that they are in.

> On Apr 15, 2020, at 8:08 AM, Mark Radabaugh  wrote:
> 
> https://finance.yahoo.com/news/frontier-communications-files-bankruptcy-protection-030635273.html
> 
> Dump your debts and your obligations, get more money.   Round and round it 
> goes.
> 
> Mark
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Re: [AFMUG] Market saturation

[Matt Hoppes]

That also is what we have found.

I was actually going to say 35% take rate -- but since I've gotten shot 
down on previous e-mails where I've sent out "crazy" and "ridiculous" 
statistics, I figured I'd send the higher end of the spectrum :)


On 4/15/20 9:12 AM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I second the 50% rate. Probably 35% if you have some other competition 
other than satellite. At either one of those rates, you should have 
enough neighbor referrals that anything other than a yard sign would be 
a waste.


On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 6:36 AM Matt Hoppes 
<mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net>> wrote:


We see about 50% take rate even when we are the only option.

 > On Apr 15, 2020, at 6:26 AM, Mark Radabaugh mailto:m...@amplex.net>> wrote:
 >
 > I’m thinking around 85%.   Some depends on your market.   We have
a few areas where I think about 5% of the housing is abandoned. 
Take another 10% that are not interested.  There is an older

population that just isn’t interested or that their needs are met by
iPads and cellular.
 >
 > That 85% number seems consistent for us on both wireless and
fiber routes.
 >
 > Mark
 >
 >> On Apr 15, 2020, at 12:29 AM, Steve Jones
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
 >>
 >> What percentage of rural customers would you all consider saturated?
 >>
 >> I have access to some new datasets and it disturbing. It's good
disturbing, but unanticipated.
 >>
 >> May be bad.
 >>
 >> Is there a rural percentage of capture that is considered
saturated as a standard? 100 percent is what we all want. But there
are customers who dont want, or simply cannot afford internet
access. There has to be some numbers out there.
 >>
 >> I doubt government numbers count, since government is dumb.
Where does a simpleton such as myself go to find out what is
considered saturated?
 >>
 >> Say I touch 1000 households. What is the percentage of capture
that marketing is no longer recommended? If I have 500 of them, I'd
think that's pretty good, maybe even saturated between lack of need,
want, or ability and offset by whatever percentage per terrain would
be co sided unservicable. I'd assume my midwest flatlands
unservicable would be different than Johnny paychecks Arkansas hills
unservicable.
 >>
 >> These numbers have to be somewhere
 >> --
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 >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
 >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 >
 >
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325-439-0533 Cell



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Re: [AFMUG] And there we have it....

[Matt Hoppes]

Yup. We do it. My home phone VoIP number used to be a frontier number. 

What issue are you having?

> On Apr 16, 2020, at 7:58 AM, Mike Hammett  wrote:
> 
> --=_Part_1487_2018052107.1587038324397
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> 
> We've been doing it for 15 years. I'm not the one that does it, but I believe 
> we enter them into their VFO system. We use that for other CLEC things, so I 
> don't know if a voice-only CLEC would have that same tool or not. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - 
> Mike Hammett 
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: "Lewis Bergman"  
> To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
> Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2020 6:10:11 AM 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] And there we have it...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

[Matt Hoppes]

This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths related 
to usual activities.

> On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  wrote:
> 
> I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this 
> time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall, 
> even with the virus.
> 
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
> 
>> On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen deaths 
>> in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  All in 
>> a few short months. 
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Need AirFiber5x

[Matt Hoppes]

Ubiquiti really needs to realize they screwed the pooch by stopping production 
on that product. 

> On Apr 21, 2020, at 5:22 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Here’s what we’ve got.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:59 PM Jaime Solorza  
>> wrote:
>> Ok.  Thanks
>> 
>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:35 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>> Hi Jamie,
>>> 
>>> I think we have a decommissioned pair in our storage.  I’ll go look later 
>>> today.
>>> 
>>> -Sean
>>> 
>>> 
 On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:31 PM Jaime Solorza  
 wrote:
 We need an older model AirFiber5x...
 Any one know where we can get one? Thanks, El Dude
 -- 
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Need AirFiber5x

[Matt Hoppes]

Airfiber5 - garbage gain. 

I was taking about AF5x. Maybe I missed the X?

> On Apr 21, 2020, at 6:31 PM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:
> 
> I told guy who needs them to get some Cambium higher end radios...
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 4:07 PM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>> Ubiquiti really needs to realize they screwed the pooch by stopping 
>> production on that product. 
>> 
>>> On Apr 21, 2020, at 5:22 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Here’s what we’ve got.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:59 PM Jaime Solorza  
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Ok.  Thanks
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:35 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>> Hi Jamie,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think we have a decommissioned pair in our storage.  I’ll go look later 
>>>>> today.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Sean
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:31 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> We need an older model AirFiber5x...
>>>>>> Any one know where we can get one? Thanks, El Dude
>>>>>> -- 
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>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>> -- 
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Re: [AFMUG] Need AirFiber5x

[Matt Hoppes]

Because of a radio failure. Two tower climbs is much more expensive and time 
consuming than just swapping a radio. 

> On Apr 21, 2020, at 7:33 PM, Mathew Howard  wrote:
> 
> Ehh... the AirFiber 5x is a good radio. If it's a new link, or replacing both 
> ends, then the Airfiber 5xHD is generally a pretty good replacement. The HD 
> is better than the old 5x in some ways, and a bit worse in other ways, but 
> they're both good radios.
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:32 PM Jaime Solorza  
>> wrote:
>> I told guy who needs them to get some Cambium higher end radios...
>> 
>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 4:07 PM Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> Ubiquiti really needs to realize they screwed the pooch by stopping 
>>> production on that product. 
>>> 
>>>> On Apr 21, 2020, at 5:22 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Here’s what we’ve got.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:59 PM Jaime Solorza  
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Ok.  Thanks
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:35 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Jamie,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I think we have a decommissioned pair in our storage.  I’ll go look 
>>>>>> later today.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Sean
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:31 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>> We need an older model AirFiber5x...
>>>>>>> Any one know where we can get one? Thanks, El Dude
>>>>>>> -- 
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>>>>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] Need AirFiber5x

[Matt Hoppes]

HD is more spectrally efficient. 

> On Apr 21, 2020, at 10:05 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  
> wrote:
> 
> How is a AF5X better than the AF5XHD? I'm curious as to what ways you 
> mention. So far the only way i have found is the SNMP OID's are totally 
> screwed up and not functioning in the HD version.
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 7:34 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:
>> Ehh... the AirFiber 5x is a good radio. If it's a new link, or replacing 
>> both ends, then the Airfiber 5xHD is generally a pretty good replacement. 
>> The HD is better than the old 5x in some ways, and a bit worse in other 
>> ways, but they're both good radios.
>> 
>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 5:32 PM Jaime Solorza  
>>> wrote:
>>> I told guy who needs them to get some Cambium higher end radios...
>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 4:07 PM Matt Hoppes 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> Ubiquiti really needs to realize they screwed the pooch by stopping 
>>>> production on that product. 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Apr 21, 2020, at 5:22 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here’s what we’ve got.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:59 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>> Ok.  Thanks
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020, 2:35 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Jamie,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think we have a decommissioned pair in our storage.  I’ll go look 
>>>>>>> later today.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Sean
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 2:31 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> We need an older model AirFiber5x...
>>>>>>>> Any one know where we can get one? Thanks, El Dude
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Re: [AFMUG] Saisei

[Matt Hoppes]

We just got the box Monday... configuring it Friday, and then into the 
network to test.


On 4/22/20 5:14 PM, SmarterBroadband wrote:

Anyone using Saisei?   Pros cons?




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Re: [AFMUG] Coronavirus made working from home the new normal. So the FCC is giving us a new Wi-Fi lane

[Matt Hoppes]

Oh. Cool. Even less penetration through walls. 

> On Apr 23, 2020, at 8:35 AM, Jaime Solorza  wrote:
> 
> https://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2020/04/22/fcc-approves-new-wifi-spectrum/2997618001/
>  
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Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum

[Matt Hoppes]

So did WISPA make this happen?  Or was it the millions these companies dropped 
that made it happen?

> On Apr 23, 2020, at 9:51 PM, Eric Nielsen  wrote:
> 
> The primary influencers behind the rule change are some small, no-name 
> companies like Google, Facebook, Apple, Broadcom. I doubt you’ve heard of 
> them. They’re interested in unlicensed 6GHz for the indoor low power (WiFi6) 
> usage.
> 
> I’m certain they’ve dropped millions lobbying for this.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:45 PM TJ Trout  wrote:
>> There must be some ulterior motive here there is no way that the FCC out of 
>> the goodness of their heart provided more unlicensed spectrum to the common 
>> man/small business. 
>> 
>> So the question is who can utilize this spectrum?
>> 
>>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 6:35 PM Tim Hardy  wrote:
>>> FCC has total authority over these bands.
>>> 
 On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 9:29 PM Kurt Fankhauser  
 wrote:
 How can the FCC make spectrum available for un-licensed without an act of 
 Congress?
 
 
> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 7:30 PM Erich Kaiser 
>  wrote:
> yes you are right.
> 
> 
> Erich Kaiser
> North Central Tower
> er...@northcentraltower.com
> Office: 815-570-3101
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 6:12 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> More like 4.9 to 7.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Erich Kaiser
>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2020 5:35 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] New unlicensed spectrum
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Two of the UNII  bands are heavily used for licensed PTP and I mean 
>> heavily, so really if the AFC system works correctly most of the 
>> spectrum proposed will likely be unuseable outdoor.  I feel like from a 
>> reliability standpoint it will be tough to count on a system that uses 
>> AFC in general.   What about the Antenna being used on these APs are 
>> they going to be able to cover the entire band from 5Ghz to 6Ghz 
>> efficiently?  Just thinking...
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Erich Kaiser
>> 
>> North Central Tower
>> 
>> er...@northcentraltower.com
>> 
>> Office: 815-570-3101
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 5:24 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>> 
>> from Fred Goldstein via the wispa list:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> "There are really two different types of devices approved today. A 
>> Standard Power device, allowed +36 dBm EIRP, must communicate daily with 
>> an AFC that determines what frequencies are available at its location. 
>> It must have geolocation. (We are waiting to see the final Order to see 
>> how the "client AP" is handled.) The rules for the AFC are reasonably 
>> conservative, so the licensed PtP users are generally pretty happy with 
>> it. And a whole bunch of companies have already been working on AFCs.
>> 
>> 
>> The Low Power Indoor device, on the other hand, does not require AFC. It 
>> is limited to indoor use only (must have mains power, may not be 
>> weatherproof, must be labeled) and is allowed +30 dBm EIRP (clients +24 
>> dBm). Since those can use any frequency, the incumbents are a wee bit 
>> concerned. But between building entry losses (pretty high at 6 GHz) and 
>> the directionality of the FS dishes, harmful interference is unlikely. 
>> That is likely to be a volume market for Wi-Fi 6e. The higher-end 
>> business stuff, and ours, will be standard power.
>> 
>> The FNPRM asks about Very Low Power outdoor operation without AFC. Like 
>> cell phones and small hotspots. It also asks about higher power for 
>> AFC-controlled devices."
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 4:07 PM Jaime Solorza 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yep...lots of buzz from this
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020, 3:47 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
>> 
>> WISPA said they are waiting for them to release the order.  they are 
>> hoping it's 36db...there's a chance it's only 30db.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 3:42 PM Tim Withrow via AF  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I learned that the FCC approved 1200Mhz of unlicensed spectrum in 6 
>> Gigahertz today.
>> 
>> any idea what Eirp they approved for fixed wireless?
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Airfiber 11 radios

[Matt Hoppes]

While the 11 has issues and other vendors have far superior products - 
something was wrong if you faded in the rain at 5 miles. 

> On Apr 27, 2020, at 11:51 PM, Kurt Fankhauser  
> wrote:
> 
> This is why I'm moving away from UBNT for 11ghz backhauls. They jacked the 
> price up on the stand alone units. Stock has been non-existent since 
> November/December which was the last time I was able to order stand alone 
> AF11 radios. Now a rumor they will never sell them again without their crappy 
> dish? Which BTW has steel bolts on that you know will turn to rust in a 
> couple years which really pisses me off. I know that other brands cost about 
> 2x-2.5x like Aviat but for the same licensed 80mhz channel you can get 
> 1.4gbps full duplex and I have never seen a AF11 radio actually push over 600 
> meg. Had a 5 mile and 6 mile AF11 link fade in the rain just as bad as a AF24 
> would on a 3-4 mile shot. I'm going all Aviat from here on out, 11, 18, 
> 80ghz. Their pricing is extremely competitive. Ken is awesome, always emails 
> me back within 30 minutes with any questions I have. Hell you can buy a 80ghz 
> link that is keyed up for 10gbps full duplex for $5200 out the door. Siklu's 
> promo for $4200 link will only do 2gbps which you can't even get from Baltic 
> because they are sold out.
> 
>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 5:14 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:
>> Sorry, ignore that. I will forward this issue internally so that the AF11 is 
>> added. So many changes, so little time...
>> 
>>> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 4:10 PM Chuck Macenski  wrote:
>>> https://www.ui.com/distributors/stock-locator/
>>> 
 On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 3:33 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
 From Streakwave?  They're the one's that told me this morning they were 
 never going to get them.  
 
> On 4/27/2020 3:30 PM, Cassidy B. Larson wrote:
> Streakwave was telling me that originally too, but it was during the 
> change of the model number of the standalone radio.  Now that the model 
> number for the stand alone radio is changed, price is a bit higher, but 
> they are once again available.  
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 14:26, Nate Burke  wrote:
>> 
>>  One distributor I talked to said they were being told by UBNT that 
>> their Single Radio order would never be fulfilled
>> 
>>> On 4/27/2020 3:20 PM, Chuck Macenski wrote:
>>> That rumor is incorrect. The AF11 radio is available as a stand-alone 
>>> SKU. 
>>> 
>>> https://store.ui.com/collections/operator-airfiber/products/af-11
>>> 
>>> Chuck
>>> 
 On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 3:11 PM Sean Heskett  wrote:
 Why in the world would you buy crappy radios from a crappy company 
 that likes to frivolously sue its customers and distributors?  They 
 also seem to like to discontinue products at the drop of a hat.
 
 Not gonna build my business model around a crappy company like that.
 
 2 cents
 
 -Sean
 
 
> On Mon, Apr 27, 2020 at 1:05 PM Nate Burke  wrote:
> I've heard a rumor that the only way to buy an AF11 radio now is in a 
> kit with Radio+Single Diplexer+Dish.  Single radios cannot be 
> purchased.  How can you keep spares of equipment if that's the case?
> 
> The price has gone up too.  We were getting bare radios for $585 last 
> year.  Now if you break the cost out of the Dishes and Diplexers from 
> the Kit, it's $680 for just the radio.  And places that have bare 
> radios 
> listed in their online stores (but have no stock) have a single radio 
> in 
> the $900 range.
> 
> Is UBNT Just trying to kill the 3rd party Antenna market?  Or were 
> they 
> having problems interfacing to other dishes  because of their unique 
> N 
> connector method?  The part that really annoys me is that I can't 
> just 
> have spare radios sitting on the shelf.
> 
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>>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] anybody else having SAS problems this morning?

[Matt Hoppes]

I screamed this would happen -- I was assured not.

On 4/30/20 9:49 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Yop...

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 9:48 AM Tushar Patel > wrote:


Ken,

Does this means your customers are not getting any service when such
things happens?



Tushar



On Apr 30, 2020, at 8:33 AM, Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:



Cambium 450 using cnMaestro Cloud and Federated Wireless SAS. 
Anybody else having Domain Proxy HTTP failures or heartbeat

timeouts this morning?

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[AFMUG] COVID liability

[Matt Hoppes]

As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is liability. 

How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets someone sick 
(and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you have a potential 
OSHA issue on your hands.
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Matt Hoppes]

Any lawyer will tell you that waiver only goes so far. 

> On May 8, 2020, at 6:00 PM, Steve Jones  wrote:
> 
> 
> Rotflmao. Waiver of liability. Literally that simple
> 
>> On Fri, May 8, 2020, 4:55 PM Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> As we look to reopen our operations, the one thing that remains is 
>> liability. 
>> 
>> How are you all addressing the liability if either your tech gets someone 
>> sick (and they die), or someone gets your tech sick (and now you have a 
>> potential OSHA issue on your hands.
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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Matt Hoppes]

Just gettting back to this thread now.

I would absolutely rush out and get it right now IF:

A) I knew for a fact that the antibodies would keep me immune to it 
going forward

B) I knew for a fact there were no long term issues (think Polio)

I'm  not convinced of either of those things, yet... and am waiting on 
folks more smart than myself.


On 5/9/20 10:50 AM, Steve Jones wrote:
That's why right now is the best time to get it. Matt and the talking 
heads keep saying that we all will eventually get this, and they 
wouldn't lie. So right now when the hospitals are empty and 60 percent 
of healthcare staff is laid off is the ideal time to get it. Get it in 
the fall when it resources (again, matt and the talking heads have 
guaranteed this) are taxed due to flu season, and survivability drops.
 From day one I've said infection centers would be the absolute best 
tool to fight this thing. The younger, healthier, medically screened 
people go and get infected, and start treatment immediately. Its 
effectively the same thing as vaccination with a few more steps.
Morons say "well we dont know that getting it will make you immune" 
which is fine and good, maybe it's not like 99 percent of other viruses. 
But guess what that means. It means that there will never be a vaccine 
since that's what vaccines to (make your body think you've had the 
disease). Matt and the talking heads cannot have it both ways, science 
doesnt allow it.


I'm in the same boat though, I want to maximize the time with my kids. I 
have this new fresh one that's still just a lump of dough, I'd like to 
get to know what he cooks into. But I wont do this teaching these little 
bastards to cower in the corner because the government says to, 
especially when the governments demands dont match the so called science 
they're basing it on. And the little dough ball isnt developing an 
immune system, he will be that pale gray sickly kid with a doctors note 
for PE soon if I dont get him exposed to some community germs. I'm about 
to go drag him across a truck stop floor


On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:35 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:


I have not had nearly enough time with my grandkids yet.
So, trying to optimize the chance of more time with grandkids.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 8:18 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
Maybe. At this point, I couldn't care less. Get it, don't get it. I
don't care anymore.
On Sat, May 9, 2020, 9:07 AM  wrote:

I modified all the doors I could so you don’t have to use a hand
to open them.
Put an auto flush valve on the urinal.
We asked all the guys to try to do the 6 foot thing.
Logging temps with an IR thermometer each morning and posting
them on a white board is surprisingly reassuring in a way.
None of this is expensive or onerous or an overreaction and will
work for all kinds of communicable diseases.
I don’t want them to bring it back to me.  Everyone at my place
is much younger than my wife and myself.  Silly for those in a
particular age demographic to not be as careful as they can.  I
also wear my seat belt, don’t smoke and try to keep my blood
sugar and blood pressure low. To me this is just more of the same.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, May 9, 2020 7:54 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
We changed nothing. No distancing, no work from home, no masks,
no gloves. The only thing we are sick of is all the talk of
covid. Workers comp covers this kind of thing and your ERA is
based on the total experience of like industries which
presumably would experience similar sickness rates.
Don't let the fear of liability stop you from doing anything
productive.
On Fri, May 8, 2020, 5:41 PM  wrote:

I never shut down.  I build critical infrastructure.
We distanced, made sure everyone was in their own vehicle.
Gave them all gloves and masks.  Make sure everyone’s
temperature is taken and logged each morning.
If someone gets sick, who gave it to them and who gave it to
that person.  If you want to attempt to assign liability it
would as difficult as doing slavery reparations in a fair
manner.
The can sue China.
*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Friday, May 8, 2020 4:20 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
Act of God?   How would you deal with someone getting the
flu or passing it on?

On 5/8/20 3:05 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:

Any lawyer w

Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Matt Hoppes]

To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do 
you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?


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Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability

[Matt Hoppes]

And so it begins. 


https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/coronavirus-jbs-meat-plant-pennsylvania-death-lawsuit



> On May 10, 2020, at 10:43 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Only for ugly people.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>>> On May 10, 2020, at 7:59 PM, James Howard  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> There are 2 separate issues. Having the government tell everyone they must 
>> wear a mask is one thing.  A business requiring customers wear a mask to 
>> enter their store is another.  The second actually correlates to your 
>> example and is certainly the right of any business to put certain 
>> requirements on using their facility (within lawful limits of course).  If 
>> people don’t want to abide by their requirements, they are free to go 
>> somewhere else or stay home if no one will let them in their place of 
>> business.
>>  
>> On the other hand, I assume that it will eventually come before the Supreme 
>> Court to decide if it is a violation of some “right” or other to be told 
>> that everyone is required to wear a mask in public.
>>  
>>  
>> From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2020 1:53 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group ; Steve Jones 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] COVID liability
>>  
>> To those saying "why should I have to wear a mask when in public" do 
>> you also complain about "No Shirt, No Shoes, No Service"?
>> 
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>> Login
>> To: ja...@litewire.net
>> From: af-boun...@af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] FCC Approves 900 MHz Realignment Rules

[Matt Hoppes]

Oo 6MHz...

On 5/15/20 11:14 AM, Kurt Fankhauser wrote:
Is this band directly adjacent to the 900mhz ISM band? And if so does 
that mean we can apply for a special FCC license with the FCC and then 
cambium can make us some "special-firmware" for pmp450-900mhz hardware? 
I really could use some more spectrum in that band for the 900mhz AP's 
that I do have., 6 more mhz would mean we could run ABAB on sites with 
15mhz channel widths which would be beneficial.


On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 10:58 AM Jaime Solorza 
mailto:losguyswirel...@gmail.com>> wrote:


https://www.rrmediagroup.com/Features/FeaturesDetails/FID/992
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Re: [AFMUG] WiFi Calling Broken

[Matt Hoppes]

I have not, if anything mine on Verizon has gotten much more stable lately.

> On May 15, 2020, at 5:35 PM, Jeremy Grip  wrote:
> 
> Anybody else seeing this? Very recently-over the last several days to a
> week, WiFi calling has gotten flaky, and now just won't connect. Absolutely
> no network or firewall changes, Mikrotik CCR core routing. appears to be
> both AT&T and VZW. iPhones, maybe Android too.
> 
> (Thought I'd post this properly as a new thread).
> 
> Jeremy Grip
> North Branch Networks
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try

[Matt Hoppes]

So basically the way an airplane operates?

> On May 30, 2020, at 3:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> 
> I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking 
> test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the 
> target.  Nobody had thought it through. 
>  
> More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. 
>  
> So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are 
> behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and 
> slow down...
>  
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can 
> maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in 
> the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be 
> enough left in that to de-orbit.
> 
> I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that 
> illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
> 
> The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of 
> sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they 
> make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the 
> exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The 
> crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific 
>> time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet.  Same guy 
>> said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more 
>> maneuverable.  Looking at photos they don’t seem that different.  Does this 
>> sound right?  Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on 
>> land.
>>  
>> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 
>> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
>>  
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>  
>>  
>> 
>> 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
>> 
>> 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
>> 
>> 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
>> 
>> 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
>> 
>> If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>>  
>> On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> Just a reminder in case you forgot.
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try

[Matt Hoppes]

Right. But in an airplane throttle also makes you go up. 

In fact:

Up/down is basically controlled by throttle 
While
Speed is controlled by elevators. 

Slow down?  Pull up
Speed up? Push down

Go up?  Throttle up
Go down? Throttle down 

> On May 30, 2020, at 3:43 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Yes on the up and down.  But if you want to catch up to another airplane you 
> do give it more throttle. 
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:39 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> So basically the way an airplane operates?
> 
>> On May 30, 2020, at 3:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking 
>> test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the 
>> target.  Nobody had thought it through. 
>>  
>> More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. 
>>  
>> So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are 
>> behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and 
>> slow down...
>>  
>> From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>  
>> It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can 
>> maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in 
>> the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be 
>> enough left in that to de-orbit. 
>> 
>> I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that 
>> illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
>> 
>> The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of 
>> sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until 
>> they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just 
>> outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking 
>> station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation 
>> is autonomous.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a 
>>> specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet.  
>>> Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is 
>>> more maneuverable.  Looking at photos they don’t seem that different.  Does 
>>> this sound right?  Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water 
>>> or on land.
>>>  
>>> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 
>>> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
>>>  
>>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>  
>>> On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> Just a reminder in case you forgot.
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> -- 
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try

[Matt Hoppes]

As long as they do that before people are on top. 

> On May 30, 2020, at 4:49 PM, Bill Prince  wrote:
> 
> 
> I imagine they instrument the *)&%%$ out of it and have 10 (or so) 
> super-slow-mo cameras going at once to figure out what went wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 5/30/2020 1:33 PM, Chuck McCown wrote:
>> You learn some of the most valuable lessons from failures.  They sn4 blew 
>> up.  Sn5&6 are already built and ready to incorporate the changes that come 
>> out of this failure.  Much quicker way to develop rockets.  Make lots of 
>> them, blow up lots of them,
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 30, 2020, at 1:58 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Well, SpaceX has that Mars rocket program or whatever it is, that blew up 
>>> again yesterday.  I saw a video clip where the narrator said something like 
>>> “that wasn’t nominal”.  I’m imagining the famous film of the Hindenburg 
>>> disaster where the radio announcer says “that wasn’t nominal” instead of 
>>> “oh the humanity”.
>>>  
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 2:44 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>>  
>>> So, my TSLA stock should be safe now...
>>>  
>>> From: Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>>  
>>> It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can 
>>> maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in 
>>> the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be 
>>> enough left in that to de-orbit.
>>> 
>>> I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that 
>>> illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
>>> 
>>> The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone 
>>> of sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until 
>>> they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just 
>>> outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking 
>>> station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation 
>>> is autonomous.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>  
>>> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a 
>>> specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet.  
>>> Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is 
>>> more maneuverable.  Looking at photos they don’t seem that different.  Does 
>>> this sound right?  Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water 
>>> or on land.
>>>  
>>> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 
>>> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
>>>  
>>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>  
>>> On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> Just a reminder in case you forgot.
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try

[Matt Hoppes]

Sounds like a lot of support folks I’ve dealt with in our industry. 

> On May 30, 2020, at 6:32 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> and reluctant to believe it was a design flaw after the first failure. 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try

[Matt Hoppes]

How much room is there in that capsule?

Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get out 
and at least move a bit?

> On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> 
> That was a nice video.  Very counterintuitive.
>  
>  
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS 
> and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and 
> let the ISS catch up to them.
> 
> Watch this video from about the 5:10 point.
> 
> bp
> 
> 
>> On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking 
>> test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the 
>> target.  Nobody had thought it through. 
>>  
>> More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. 
>>  
>> So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are 
>> behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and 
>> slow down...
>>  
>> From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>  
>> It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can 
>> maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in 
>> the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be 
>> enough left in that to de-orbit. 
>> 
>> I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that 
>> illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
>> 
>> The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of 
>> sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until 
>> they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just 
>> outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking 
>> station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation 
>> is autonomous.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>> 
>>> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a 
>>> specific time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet.  
>>> Same guy said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is 
>>> more maneuverable.  Looking at photos they don’t seem that different.  Does 
>>> this sound right?  Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water 
>>> or on land.
>>>  
>>> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 
>>> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
>>>  
>>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>>  
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
>>> 
>>> If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
>>> 
>>>  
>>> 
>>> bp
>>> 
>>>  
>>> On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> Just a reminder in case you forgot.
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try

[Matt Hoppes]

They don’t have microwaves or ovens. Why do they need toilets?  Take care of 
your bio-needs before you start out on a trip. 

My bladder is larger than my gas tank. 


> On May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> 
> So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too.  Or is that the 
> difference between a car and an RV?
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers.  It has a toilet. 
> They are probably out of it by now.  The spacecraft docked a bit ago. 
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> How much room is there in that capsule?
>  
> Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get 
> out and at least move a bit?
> 
> 
> On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> 
> That was a nice video.  Very counterintuitive.
>  
>  
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS 
> and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and 
> let the ISS catch up to them.
> 
> Watch this video from about the 5:10 point.
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking 
> test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the 
> target.  Nobody had thought it through. 
>  
> More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. 
>  
> So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are 
> behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and 
> slow down...
>  
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can 
> maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in 
> the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be 
> enough left in that to de-orbit.
> 
> I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that 
> illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
> 
> The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of 
> sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they 
> make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the 
> exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The 
> crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific 
> time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet.  Same guy 
> said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more 
> maneuverable.  Looking at photos they don’t seem that different.  Does this 
> sound right?  Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on 
> land.
>  
> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 
> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
>  
> 
> 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
> 
> 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
> 
> 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
> 
> 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
> 
> If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> Just a reminder in case you forgot.
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
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> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try

[Matt Hoppes]

I’ve often wished vehicles had two sets of controls up front. 

Getting tired or fatigued?  Just switch control to your passenger. 

> On May 31, 2020, at 12:03 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Just wait a few years...
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:44 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> They don’t have microwaves or ovens. Why do they need toilets?  Take care of 
> your bio-needs before you start out on a trip.
>  
> My bladder is larger than my gas tank.
>  
> 
>> On May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too.  Or is that the 
>> difference between a car and an RV?
>>  
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>  
>> I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers.  It has a toilet. 
>> They are probably out of it by now.  The spacecraft docked a bit ago. 
>>  
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>  
>> How much room is there in that capsule?
>>  
>> Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get 
>> out and at least move a bit?
>> 
>> 
>> On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> That was a nice video.  Very counterintuitive.
>>  
>>  
>> From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>  
>> They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS 
>> and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and 
>> let the ISS catch up to them.
>> 
>> Watch this video from about the 5:10 point.
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>>  
>> On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking 
>> test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the 
>> target.  Nobody had thought it through. 
>>  
>> More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. 
>>  
>> So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are 
>> behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and 
>> slow down...
>>  
>> From: Bill Prince
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>  
>> It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can 
>> maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in 
>> the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be 
>> enough left in that to de-orbit.
>> 
>> I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that 
>> illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
>> 
>> The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of 
>> sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until 
>> they make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just 
>> outside the exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking 
>> station. The crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation 
>> is autonomous.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> bp
>> 
>>  
>> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific 
>> time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet.  Same guy 
>> said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more 
>> maneuverable.  Looking at photos they don’t seem that different.  Does this 
>> sound right?  Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on 
>> land.
>>  
>> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 
>> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
>>  
>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
>> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>>  
&

Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try

[Matt Hoppes]

I either don’t want to know how you know that, or you have an electric vehicle. 

> On May 31, 2020, at 11:54 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> 
> My bladder is larger than my gas tank battery. 
>  
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:45 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> They don’t have microwaves or ovens. Why do they need toilets?  Take care of 
> your bio-needs before you start out on a trip. 
>  
> My bladder is larger than my gas tank. 
>  
> 
> 
> On May 31, 2020, at 11:42 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> 
> So if Teslas are self-driving, maybe they need toilets too.  Or is that the 
> difference between a car and an RV?
>  
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 10:15 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> I think it can hold 5 or 7 passengers.  It has a toilet. 
> They are probably out of it by now.  The spacecraft docked a bit ago. 
>  
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2020 9:05 AM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> How much room is there in that capsule?
>  
> Are they in their seats for 19 hours while they rendezvous or can they get 
> out and at least move a bit?
> 
> 
> 
> On May 31, 2020, at 10:55 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> 
> That was a nice video.  Very counterintuitive.
>  
>  
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 6:01 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> They call it a Hohmann Transfer. They get into an orbit just below the ISS 
> and orbit until they get out in front of the ISS. Then they turn around and 
> let the ISS catch up to them.
> 
> Watch this video from about the 5:10 point.
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 5/30/2020 12:09 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> I found it astounding to learn that during the first NASA manned docking 
> test, the guys would give it some throttle and get farther away from the 
> target.  Nobody had thought it through. 
>  
> More throttle == faster == higher orbit == slower orbital period. 
>  
> So you have to slow down to catch up if you want to dock.If you are 
> behind, you slow down until you get ahead and then speed up to raise up and 
> slow down...
>  
> From: Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 12:53 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
> It's not quite like shooting a bullet. There is a window that they can 
> maneuver within. It may have to do with the amount of propellant carried in 
> the "garage" attached to the back of the crew dragon. There also has to be 
> enough left in that to de-orbit.
> 
> I saw a series of diagrams somewhere (maybe on the SpaceX web site?) that 
> illustrated all the various maneuvers at the different stages.
> 
> The approach to the ISS is interesting in that there is an exclusion zone of 
> sorts all around the ISS. They need to target to outside that zone until they 
> make their final approach. Once they are in a parallel orbit just outside the 
> exclusion zone, they can rotate and maneuver into the docking station. The 
> crew dragon (and the cargo dragon) is that the whole operation is autonomous.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 5/30/2020 11:39 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Guy on radio was saying SpaceX crew capsule has to be launched at a specific 
> time to rendezvous with the ISS, sounds like shooting a bullet.  Same guy 
> said Boeing design will have a wider launch window because it is more 
> maneuverable.  Looking at photos they don’t seem that different.  Does this 
> sound right?  Main difference seems to be the way they land, in water or on 
> land.
>  
> Not sure what happens to Boeing capsule if collapse of air travel on top of 
> 737 Max fiasco spells the end of Boeing as a company.
>  
> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of Bill Prince
> Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2020 1:25 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Doug and Bob's Excellent Adventure - 2nd Try
>  
>  
> 
> 1522 EDT (AKA 3:22 PM)
> 
> 1422 CDT (AKA 2:22 PM)
> 
> 1322 MDT (AKA 1:22 PM)
> 
> 1222 PDT (AKA 12:22 PM)
> 
> If you're not on daylight saving time, you know what to do.
> 
>  
> 
> bp
> 
>  
> On 5/30/2020 11:18 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> Just a reminder in case you forgot.
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
&g

Re: [AFMUG] OT - grocery store report

[Matt Hoppes]

https://youtu.be/-JEfCAFHcPk

> On Jun 1, 2020, at 7:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> 
> So beef is getting scarce and quite expensive.  There’s plenty of salmon.  
> Based on news reports, I expected pork to be a problem, but there were slabs 
> of back ribs aplenty.
>  
> But the big mystery for me is toilet paper.  We’ve gone 3 months on one 
> package of a dozen rolls but are down to 2 rolls so we’ll eventually have to 
> buy more.  The stores have plenty of toilet paper now, and aren’t even 
> limiting how much you can buy, but all they have is the “mega” rolls.  They 
> would have you believe the mega rolls fit everybody’s roll holders unless 
> your house was built before 1950, but I don’t think they fit anybody’s  roll 
> holders, unless you buy a “roll extender”.
>  
> How are you guys solving this problem?  Roll extenders?  Set the roll on the 
> vanity or windowsill until you use up half the TP and the roll is small 
> enough to fit the holder in the wall?
>  
> I wonder if an M-TOW could be used?  I think the O.D. might be too big for a 
> TP roll to fit.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT - sanitizing vehicles

[Matt Hoppes]

I saw that emailed them and asked when I could get it in my utility vehicles 
and have heard nothing back

> On Jun 1, 2020, at 7:55 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> 
> Wondering how to kill the coronavirus in work vehicles after each shift?  I 
> read an article that says Ford is bringing out a software mod for police 
> vehicles that will use the heater to raise the inside temperature to 133 
> degrees for 15 minutes and then run the A/C to cool it back down.  They claim 
> tests at a university showed this to kill the virus.
>  
> This sounds too easy.
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Re: [AFMUG] CBRS reliable now?

[Matt Hoppes]

What happens when the cellco fires up their gear?  Do you get asked to 
move and move gracefully?  Or do you have to do some kind of manual 
intervention?


How is the 450i/Medusa through trees?

On 5/20/20 10:31 AM, dave wrote:

I am fully deployed with about 800 subs and 40 Aps with pmp450/450i/450m.
I have seen some great numbers since moving to CBRS with total 
confidence with google.

Loving the new move to 30Mhz channels and 20mhz sizes.
We are seeing a celco fire up some of its gear though almost like a wall 
block into the metro portion of our coverage.




On 5/20/20 8:20 AM, Josh Luthman wrote:
It's due in 5 months.  No one says you have to be done between now and 
October.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Wed, May 20, 2020 at 9:08 AM Adam Moffett > wrote:


I recall 3 SAS outages discussed on this list.  One with Google
and two with Federated.

Whether it's production ready or not, these are the new rules we
need to be using.


On 5/18/2020 4:09 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:


Anyone deployed Cambium 450m gear under the new CBRS/SAS ruleset
in an Urban environment have comments on how reliably your access
points remain functional? i.e. receiving grants.. Should I
consider this production ready at this point, or wait?

Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 


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Re: [AFMUG] CBRS reliable now?

[Matt Hoppes]

I thought SAS was suppose to stop this from happening?  I would assume 
they are being interfered on just as much as you are?


On 5/21/20 8:59 AM, dave wrote:

Well SNR goes  to crap on every sub where you and the celco overlap.
So none of the spectrum they are on can be used. Which is aproximately 
3550-3640
we found 2 panels facing our direction side by side look like using 
40mhz x2



On 5/20/20 1:12 PM, Peter Kranz via AF wrote:


Hi Dave, can you expand on this:

“We are seeing a celco fire up some of its gear though almost like a 
wall block into the metro portion of our coverage."


I’m San Francisco, so totally metro.. what is the impact of the celco 
firing up its gear on you?


Peter Kranz
www.UnwiredLtd.com 
Desk: 510-868-1614 x100
Mobile: 510-207-
pkr...@unwiredltd.com 

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *dave
*Sent:* Wednesday, May 20, 2020 7:32 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CBRS reliable now?

I am fully deployed with about 800 subs and 40 Aps with pmp450/450i/450m.
I have seen some great numbers since moving to CBRS with total 
confidence with google.

Loving the new move to 30Mhz channels and 20mhz sizes.
We are seeing a celco fire up some of its gear though almost like a 
wall block into the metro portion of our coverage.










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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Why are you doing fiber?

We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.

It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
sectors that cover several RV campers.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
> 
> 
> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of 
> why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice to 
> have the option to plug in a cable. 
> 
> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
> ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/. 
> 
> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
> place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks in 
> it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets their 
> own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if there was 
> ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a particular site 
> rather than just "somewhere in the park". 
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
>> carry and ethernet cable... 
>> 
>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: 
>>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site? 
>>> 
>>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to 
>>> their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
>>> Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if they 
>>> don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV. 
>>> 
>>> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but 
>>> I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite dishes 
are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to the camp 
owner.

And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews  wrote:
> 
> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation of 
> FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite dish 
> it's fully enclosed and not visible.
> 
>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>> Why are you doing fiber?
>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over the 
>> Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to the 
>> sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's part of 
>>> why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it would be nice 
>>> to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>> 
>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV power 
>>> ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>> <http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
>>> 
>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might give me a 
>>> place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two keystone jacks 
>>> in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach are that each RV gets 
>>> their own WiFi instead of sharing it with everybody around them, and if 
>>> there was ever a law enforcement issue we could track the usage to a 
>>> particular site rather than just "somewhere in the park".
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
>>>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't even 
>>>> carry and ethernet cable...
>>>> 
>>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post next to 
>>>>> their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be able to plug 
>>>>> Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do so.  And if 
>>>>> they don't then they have their own private WiFi right outside their RV.
>>>>> 
>>>>> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this together, but 
>>>>> I'm betting someone must have made a product for this already.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
> 
> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable or 
> roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
> 
> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
> have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
> summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
> scalehouse during harvest.
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
> the camp owner.
> 
> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation 
>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite 
>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>> 
>>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over 
>>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to 
>>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's 
>>>> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it 
>>>> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>>> 
>>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV 
>>>> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>>> <http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
>>>> 
>>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might 
>>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two 
>>>> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach 
>>>> are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with 
>>>> everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue 
>>>> we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere 
>>>> in the park".
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and 
>>>>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't 
>>>>> even carry and ethernet cable...
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>>>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post 
>>>>>> next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be 
>>>>>> able to plug Ethernet in at the box if they have the wherewithal to do 
>>>>>> so.
>>>>>> And if they don't then they have their own private WiFi right 
>>>>>> outside their RV.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> of course I could get little Hoffman boxes and put this 
>>>>>> together, but I'm betting someone must have made a product for this 
>>>>>> already.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> --
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>>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>> 
>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?

Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
> 
> -Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
>> or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like this:
>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
>> 
>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you don't 
>> have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the road in 
>> summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at their 
>> scalehouse during harvest.
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
>> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching TV?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Matt Hoppes
>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>> 
>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging to 
>> the camp owner.
>> 
>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>>> 
>>>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
>>>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
>>>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
>>>>> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
>>>>> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
>>>>> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>>>> <http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
>>>>> 
>>>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
>>>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
>>>>> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
>>>>> are that each RV gets their own WiFi instead of sharing it with
>>>>> everybody around them, and if there was ever a law enforcement issue
>>>>> we could track the usage to a particular site rather than just "somewhere 
>>>>> in the park".
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 6/11/2020 4:54 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
>>>>>> As an "RVer" I will say that we are all set up for WiFi connections and
>>>>>> doing a hardwire would be something that we _never_ plan for.   Don't
>>>>>> even carry and ethernet cable...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 06/11/2020 01:30 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:
>>>>>>>> If you run fiber to RV sites, what do you put in at the site?
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I'm imagining I'd end with a WiFi enabled ONT in a box, on a post
>>>>>>>> next to their power and water hookups.  I'd want the campers to be
>>&

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over in 
a flash. 

I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
commercial. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
> 
> Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?
>> 
>> Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep. 
>> 
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>> 
>>> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a portable 
>>>> or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself.  Like 
>>>> this:
>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
>>>> 
>>>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
>>>> don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
>>>> road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at 
>>>> their scalehouse during harvest.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>> 
>>>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under the 
>>>> radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are watching 
>>>> TV?
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>> 
>>>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>>>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging 
>>>> to the camp owner.
>>>> 
>>>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>>>>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>>>>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
>>>>>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
>>>>>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi would be everyone's first choice, and that's
>>>>>>> part of why I'm thinking WiFi from the pedestal.  I just thought it
>>>>>>> would be nice to have the option to plug in a cable.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I did find a comms enclosure that bolts onto the back side of the RV
>>>>>>> power ped. http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/.
>>>>>>> <http://www.rvparksupplies.com/p/ACCESSBOXPHONECABLE/>
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Waiting for them to send me more details, but I think that might
>>>>>>> give me a place for the ONT, and incidentally there appear to be two
>>>>>>> keystone jacks in it.  My two reasons for suggesting this approach
>>>>>>> ar

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I’m sure they could stay. But not in the middle of the road. They would need to 
be in an assigned space. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:57 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> Interesting.  You do not want truckers as customers.  They just want a 
> shower and to use the laundry and pool if it is available, and their truck 
> will not get messed with in an RV park.  But it is illegal to be a customer?
> 
> -Original Message----- From: Matt Hoppes
> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 6:44 PM
> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
> 
> I see. Well that’s illegal in the parks we manage and security would be over 
> in a flash.
> 
> I’m aware of continental. Which is interesting since OTARD doesn’t apply to 
> commercial.
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 8:38 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>> 
>> Deadheading bobtail.  Happens all the time.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Again. Why would a semi be parking in the middle of the park?
>>> 
>>> Sure. It can be in a designated space. No one parks in the roadway to sleep.
>>> 
>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 7:16 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I guess you have not been in the sleeper of a nice large semi lately.
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message- From: Matt Hoppes
>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:42 PM
>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>> 
>>>> Why would a semi be parking in the middle of an RV park?
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:35 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm not an RV'er, but I thought it was somewhat common to have a 
>>>>> portable or roof mounted sat TV dish that even automatically aims itself. 
>>>>>  Like this:
>>>>> https://www.amazon.com/Winegard-PL7000R-Playmaker-Portable-Satellite/dp/B074CPRJSD
>>>>> 
>>>>> Supposedly you can add a mobile dish to your home subscription so you 
>>>>> don't have to pay an arm and a leg for a couple months when you hit the 
>>>>> road in summer.  We have a farm customer that uses their "mobile" dish at 
>>>>> their scalehouse during harvest.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 5:17 PM
>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>>> 
>>>>> So if a semi wants to park there and they have a nice mobile sat under 
>>>>> the radome, you going to knock on their sleeper and ask if they are 
>>>>> watching TV?
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: Matt Hoppes
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 4:13 PM
>>>>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber
>>>>> 
>>>>> OTARD does not apply to someone else’s property. Normally the satellite 
>>>>> dishes are not mounted on your RV they are mounted on the land belonging 
>>>>> to the camp owner.
>>>>> 
>>>>> And 0TARD does not apply to commercial environments which a campground is.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Andrews 
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> How can you enforce no satellite dishes.   Sounds like a clear violation
>>>>>> of FCC OTARD...   You couldn't even tell if we were using our satellite
>>>>>> dish it's fully enclosed and not visible.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 06/11/2020 02:48 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
>>>>>>> Why are you doing fiber?
>>>>>>> We have a 300 unit RV park where everyone is required to stream over
>>>>>>> the Internet, no satellite dishes are allowed.
>>>>>>> It works absolutely fine and everything is back hauled wirelessly to
>>>>>>> the sectors that cover several RV campers.
>>>>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:03 PM, Adam Moffett  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Yeah I'm assuming WiFi 

Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I don’t get your question. 

They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 

What is the issue?

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> I guess I should have said tractor.  
> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 
> 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
> 
> 
> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore wouldn't 
> fit in a space.
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

I’m still confused. What’s the issue?

Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 

> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes  
> wrote:
> 
> I don’t get your question. 
> 
> They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
> 
> What is the issue?
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> 
>> I guess I should have said tractor.  
>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2020 
>> 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>>>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
>> 
>> 
>> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore wouldn't 
>> fit in a space.
>> 
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Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber

[Matt Hoppes]

Hotspots are also restricted.

It’s not a matter of what’s legal or not via OTARD. No one comes into this not 
being aware of what the rules are. Nothing preclude a private contract from 
prohibiting someone from using a satellite antenna, you can agree or not agree 
to the contract.

I suppose if one of the campers wanted to fight it they probably could. We just 
provide the Wi-Fi the campsite makes the rules.

> On Jun 12, 2020, at 7:56 AM, Tim Hardy  wrote:
> 
> My read is the RV Park is on very shaky ground here.  Most RVs and trucks 
> now have fixed antennas underneath radomes on the roof.  There’s just no 
> basis for restricting one from receiving satellite signals through these 
> antennas - as Chuck commented, are you going to knock on their door to ensure 
> they are complying with this bogus restriction?  Where does it stop, what 
> about cellular signals or LEOs with smaller terminals? If the park is somehow 
> enforcing this rule, they are a prime target for a petition to the FCC. If 
> this happens, 99 out of 100 of those petitioned back down as they could end 
> up being liable for legal fees on both sides.
> 
> Finally, from the FCC’s main OTARD information page there’s this:
> 
> Q:  Does the rule apply to commercial property or only residential property?
> 
> A:  Nothing in the rule excludes antennas installed on commercial property.  
> The rule applies to property used for commercial purposes in the same way it 
> applies to residential property.
> 
> 
> https://www.fcc.gov/media/over-air-reception-devices-rule
> 
> 
>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:44 PM, Matt Hoppes  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I’m still confused. What’s the issue?
>> 
>> Tractor paying for night. In spot. Paying for WiFi. 
>> 
>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:43 PM, Matt Hoppes 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don’t get your question. 
>>> 
>>> They can come in. Pay for a space. Stay the night and buy WiFi. 
>>> 
>>> What is the issue?
>>> 
>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 9:41 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I guess I should have said tractor.  
>>>> -Original Message- From: Seth Mattinen Sent: Thursday, June 11, 
>>>> 2020 7:22 PM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] RV Park Fiber 
>>>>>> On 6/11/20 6:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>>>> Who said anything about the middle of the road?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I think he's thinking they always come with a trailer and therefore 
>>>> wouldn't fit in a space.
>>>> 
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[AFMUG] Mounting antenna to a flat ribed metal roof

[Matt Hoppes]

I need to mount a small antenna to the rooftop of a building. 

The roof is flat metal, but it has 6” high ribs every 3 ft. 

_/\_/\_/\__


Any ideas on how to mount to this/non pen it?
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