Re: [AFMUG] customer wants to switch WISPs to solve WiFi problem

[Mike Hammett]

I would do the same. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 7:43:43 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] customer wants to switch WISPs to solve WiFi problem 



Prospective customer wants to switch to us, they get 24M x 24M and 18ms ping on 
speedtest with their current WISP. It seems like the only problem is their 
router is in the attached garage not in the middle of the house. 

Am I wrong to want this customer to just work with their current WISP to get 
the cable extended to a better router location? 
-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

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Re: [AFMUG] customer wants to switch WISPs to solve WiFi problem

[dave]

+1000
 Plenty of crappy cable corps out there.

On 5/4/20 8:37 PM, Sean Heskett wrote:
I’d just be honest with the potential customer and quote them what 
it’ll take to make it work correctly.  Use your expertise to sell them 
a while home system.  if they switch to you then they will probably be 
happy...that’s all their looking for.


-Sean


On Mon, May 4, 2020 at 6:44 PM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Prospective customer wants to switch to us, they get 24M x 24M and
18ms ping on speedtest with their current WISP.  It seems like the
only problem is their router is in the attached garage not in the
middle of the house.

Am I wrong to want this customer to just work with their current
WISP to get the cable extended to a better router location?

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steven Kenney]

You guys work with statistics much? You think the numbers are accurate? At what 
point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% accurate 
numbers? 

I'll let you do your own homework. But I've seen hundreds of reports from all 
over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid deaths. 
Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already dying and 
died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc) are being attributed to 
covid. Some people have estimated that upward of 20% misrepresented. So as long 
as there is 1 case that is questionable - the statistics are not accurate. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "Bill Prince"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 



The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we 
don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a 
whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think 
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country 
and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat 
that might fit real well. 


bp
 
On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: 



Numbers are completely false. Even with that taken into regard it still is just 
as lethal as the regular flu. While it is way more harsh on people if they get 
it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had them, or 
didn't take it serious when they got it. 

Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
[ http://www.wavedirect.net/ | http://www.wavedirect.net ] 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "chuck" [ mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com |  ] 
To: "af" [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com |  ] 
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 

Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart... Let’s hope we are on 
the tail of a normal curve. 
6 days in a row decline. But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a huge 
spike after. 

-- 
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[ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ] 
[ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com | 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ] 




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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

78.2 percent of statistics are made up on the spot

On Tue, May 5, 2020, 8:55 AM Steven Kenney  wrote:

> You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?
> At what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100%
> accurate numbers?
>
> I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from
> all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid
> deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already
> dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being
> attributed to covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20%
> misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the
> statistics are not accurate.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"Bill Prince" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when
> we don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably)
> missed a whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If
> you think under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals
> around the country and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of
> us, then I have a tin hat that might fit real well.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>
> Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still
> is just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people
> if they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they
> had them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.
>
> Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"chuck"  
> *To: *"af"  
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> [image: image]
>
> Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we
> are on the tail of a normal curve.
> 6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a
> huge spike after.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Dennis Burgess via AF]

Just like that statistic!  😊


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess

Mikrotik : Trainer, Network Associate, Routing Engineer, Wireless Engineer, 
Traffic Control Engineer, Inter-Networking Engineer, Security Engineer, 
Enterprise Wireless Engineer
Hurricane Electric: IPv6 Sage Level
Cambium: ePMP

Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition”
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage’s with www.towercoverage.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 9:05 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

78.2 percent of statistics are made up on the spot

On Tue, May 5, 2020, 8:55 AM Steven Kenney 
mailto:st...@wavedirect.org>> wrote:
You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?  At 
what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% 
accurate numbers?

I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from all 
over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid deaths.  
Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already dying and 
died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being attributed to 
covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20% misrepresented.  So as 
long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the statistics are not accurate.

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)


From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com>>
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?


The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we 
don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a 
whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think 
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country 
and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat 
that might fit real well.



bp




On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still is 
just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people if 
they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had 
them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.

Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)


From: "chuck" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[image]

Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we are 
on the tail of a normal curve.
6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a huge 
spike after.

--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Ken Hohhof]

The death counts are certainly off, but not in the direction you suggest.  
There have been published comparisons of deaths compared to same period in 
previous years, and every state with a lot of Covid cases has thousands of 
excess deaths above the number attributed to Covid.  They didn’t necessarily do 
a post mortem Covid test on everybody who died since January, so there’s an 
undercount.  To suggest that there’s instead an overcount is just not 
believable.

 

Obsessing over the count of confirmed cases is pointless, since it goes up as 
the testing goes up.  Furthermore, people are not being randomly tested, 
generally the people getting tested have either shown symptoms or been exposed.

 

What I find puzzling is the high number of workers at these meat processing 
plants who test positive when they finally test them all, yet are asymptomatic.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 8:55 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?  At 
what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% 
accurate numbers?

 

I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from all 
over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid deaths.  
Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already dying and 
died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being attributed to 
covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20% misrepresented.  So as 
long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the statistics are not accurate. 
 

 

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

 

  _  

From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com> >
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we 
don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a 
whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think 
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country 
and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat 
that might fit real well.

 

bp

 

On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still is 
just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people if 
they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had 
them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.  

 

Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.  

 

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

 


  _  


From: "chuck"   
To: "af"   
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 



 

Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we are 
on the tail of a normal curve.  

6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a huge 
spike after.  


-- 
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AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com






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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[chuck]

Well, every single person that dies in Utah is tested for the virus and this 
has been happening for a couple of months.  The guy in charge of the testing is 
the Lt Gov.  A personal friend of mine.  Yes, I do think our numbers are 
accurate.  Dead on here in Utah. 

From: Steven Kenney 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 7:55 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?  At 
what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% 
accurate numbers?

I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from all 
over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid deaths.  
Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already dying and 
died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being attributed to 
covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20% misrepresented.  So as 
long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the statistics are not accurate. 
 

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)




From: "Bill Prince" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?


The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we 
don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a 
whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think 
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country 
and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat 
that might fit real well.



bp


On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

  Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still is 
just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people if 
they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had 
them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.  

  Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.  

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)


--

  From: "chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?




  Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we are 
on the tail of a normal curve.  
  6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a 
huge spike after.  

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


   

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Bill Prince]

Pun intended?

bp


On 5/5/2020 7:27 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Dead on here in Utah


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

I think it's because they work in the cold, they are always slightly
hypothermic

On Tue, May 5, 2020, 9:22 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> The death counts are certainly off, but not in the direction you suggest.
> There have been published comparisons of deaths compared to same period in
> previous years, and every state with a lot of Covid cases has thousands of
> excess deaths above the number attributed to Covid.  They didn’t
> necessarily do a post mortem Covid test on everybody who died since
> January, so there’s an undercount.  To suggest that there’s instead an
> overcount is just not believable.
>
>
>
> Obsessing over the count of confirmed cases is pointless, since it goes up
> as the testing goes up.  Furthermore, people are not being randomly tested,
> generally the people getting tested have either shown symptoms or been
> exposed.
>
>
>
> What I find puzzling is the high number of workers at these meat
> processing plants who test positive when they finally test them all, yet
> are asymptomatic.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 8:55 AM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?
> At what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100%
> accurate numbers?
>
>
>
> I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from
> all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid
> deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already
> dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being
> attributed to covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20%
> misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the
> statistics are not accurate.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Bill Prince" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when
> we don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably)
> missed a whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If
> you think under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals
> around the country and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of
> us, then I have a tin hat that might fit real well.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>
> Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still
> is just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people
> if they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they
> had them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"chuck"  
> *To: *"af"  
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> [image: image]
>
>
>
> Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we
> are on the tail of a normal curve.
>
> 6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a
> huge spike after.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Ken Hohhof]

That could be it.  Or the dead workers could have been made into Vienna 
Sausages.  Or the sick ones are all hiding from ICE.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 10:02 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

I think it's because they work in the cold, they are always slightly hypothermic

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020, 9:22 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

The death counts are certainly off, but not in the direction you suggest.  
There have been published comparisons of deaths compared to same period in 
previous years, and every state with a lot of Covid cases has thousands of 
excess deaths above the number attributed to Covid.  They didn’t necessarily do 
a post mortem Covid test on everybody who died since January, so there’s an 
undercount.  To suggest that there’s instead an overcount is just not 
believable.

 

Obsessing over the count of confirmed cases is pointless, since it goes up as 
the testing goes up.  Furthermore, people are not being randomly tested, 
generally the people getting tested have either shown symptoms or been exposed.

 

What I find puzzling is the high number of workers at these meat processing 
plants who test positive when they finally test them all, yet are asymptomatic.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Steven Kenney
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 8:55 AM
To: af mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?  At 
what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% 
accurate numbers?

 

I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from all 
over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid deaths.  
Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already dying and 
died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being attributed to 
covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20% misrepresented.  So as 
long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the statistics are not accurate. 
 

 

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

 


  _  


From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com> >
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we 
don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a 
whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think 
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country 
and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat 
that might fit real well.

 

bp

 

On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still is 
just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people if 
they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had 
them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.  

 

Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.  

 

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

 


  _  


From: "chuck"   
To: "af"   
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 



 

Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we are 
on the tail of a normal curve.  

6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a huge 
spike after.  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

its possible that this is hitting these because of the vienna recovery
teams. truth is, they havent actually made them in decades, they recover
the cans when people die and simply re-label thm. but covid hits the
elderly, the elderly all have vienna sausages in the pantry. so its the
vienna sausage recovery teams behind this

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 10:44 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> That could be it.  Or the dead workers could have been made into Vienna
> Sausages.  Or the sick ones are all hiding from ICE.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 10:02 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> I think it's because they work in the cold, they are always slightly
> hypothermic
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020, 9:22 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> The death counts are certainly off, but not in the direction you suggest.
> There have been published comparisons of deaths compared to same period in
> previous years, and every state with a lot of Covid cases has thousands of
> excess deaths above the number attributed to Covid.  They didn’t
> necessarily do a post mortem Covid test on everybody who died since
> January, so there’s an undercount.  To suggest that there’s instead an
> overcount is just not believable.
>
>
>
> Obsessing over the count of confirmed cases is pointless, since it goes up
> as the testing goes up.  Furthermore, people are not being randomly tested,
> generally the people getting tested have either shown symptoms or been
> exposed.
>
>
>
> What I find puzzling is the high number of workers at these meat
> processing plants who test positive when they finally test them all, yet
> are asymptomatic.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steven Kenney
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 8:55 AM
> *To:* af 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?
> At what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100%
> accurate numbers?
>
>
>
> I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from
> all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid
> deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already
> dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being
> attributed to covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20%
> misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the
> statistics are not accurate.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Bill Prince" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when
> we don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably)
> missed a whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If
> you think under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals
> around the country and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of
> us, then I have a tin hat that might fit real well.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>
> Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still
> is just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people
> if they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they
> had them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"chuck"  
> *To: *"af"  
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> [image: image]
>
>
>
> Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we
> are on the tail of a normal curve.
>
> 6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a
> huge spike after.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Bill Prince]

  
  
The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government
  sourced or corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are
  supplying the numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of
  different criteria. That is true for the US cases, but probably
  not for other countries. For example, the numbers coming from
  China (and several other countries) are by design government
  based. But to brush them all off as "government or corporations"
  is being naive at least.
I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing
  conditions. Maybe a high percentage, but it does not explain why
  such a large number of otherwise healthy people are being infected
  the way they are. At some point, we will figure out that there is
  a genetic or environmental factor that we just do not understand
  yet.
I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I
  also do not believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where
  you cut off is probably a personal thing.
bp



On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney
  wrote:


  
  
You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers
  are accurate?  At what point have you ever seen government or
  corporations represent 100% accurate numbers?


I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds
  of reports from all over the place of deaths of natural causes
  being classified as covid deaths.  Since most patients have
  existing conditions and many were already dying and died of
  those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being
  attributed to covid.  Some people have estimated that upward
  of 20% misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that is
  questionable - the statistics are not accurate.  


-- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)



From: "Bill Prince"
  
  To: "af" 
  Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?




  The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best
we can do when we don't actually test all the suspected
infections. It also (probably) missed a whole lot of the
early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals
around the country and are coordinating false numbers on all
the rest of us, then I have a tin hat that might fit real
well.
  
  
  bp



  On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven
Kenney wrote:
  
  

  Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken
into regard it still is just as lethal as the regular
flu.  While it is way more harsh on people if they get
it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't
know they had them, or didn't take it serious when they
got it.  
  
  
  Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to
further their agenda.  
  
  
  -- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)
  
  
  
  From: "chuck" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  
  
  
  

  

  

  
   
  Every time I get my hopes up this curve
breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we are on the
tail of a normal curve.  
  6 days in a row decline.  But it has done
this cycle 3 times before with a huge spike
after.  

  

  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Robert]

Which is why there are accurate numbers out there but why aren't they 
being used as baselines for comparisons instead of what what done, by 
example, by Dr. Erickson?  Simply because of agendas. Both ways and 
sideways.  There are so many focusing on themselves instead of the 
society that it's all f'd up.   Testing, testing, testing.   It should 
be A numero uno objective of every group that has the ability to 
contribute to that.  That's what gets the good results in countries that 
are beating this.


On 5/5/20 7:27 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Well, every single person that dies in Utah is tested for the virus 
and this has been happening for a couple of months.  The guy in charge 
of the testing is the Lt Gov.  A personal friend of mine.  Yes, I do 
think our numbers are accurate.  Dead on here in Utah.

*From:* Steven Kenney
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 7:55 AM
*To:* af
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are 
accurate?  At what point have you ever seen government or corporations 
represent 100% accurate numbers?
I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports 
from all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified 
as covid deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and 
many were already dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, 
cancer etc)  are being attributed to covid. Some people have estimated 
that upward of 20% misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that 
is questionable - the statistics are not accurate.

--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

*From: *"Bill Prince" 
*To: *"af" 
*Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do 
when we don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also 
(probably) missed a whole lot of the early deaths, as they were 
miss-classified. If you think under-ground near-do-wells are planted 
in all the hospitals around the country and are coordinating false 
numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat that might fit 
real well.


bp


On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it
still is just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more
harsh on people if they get it, most people have underlying
conditions, or didn't know they had them, or didn't take it
serious when they got it.
Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their
agenda.
-- 
Steven Kenney

Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

*From: *"chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
*To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
*Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
*Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Is this good?
image
Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s
hope we are on the tail of a normal curve.
6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times
before with a huge spike after.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Ken Hohhof]

Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs because the 
source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you read the article, 
they go out of their way to point out possible errors in the data, as well as 
other influences like overloaded healthcare system led to people dying of other 
causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and violence.  And the data as Bill 
says is from other sources, the paper didn’t make them up to suit a political 
agenda or bias.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

 

In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted because 
the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and crematories are 
overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis, you can’t possibly 
claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled as Covid related to 
suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and nursing home deaths.  OK, 
sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a hoax.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or 
corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the numbers. 
There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria. That is true for 
the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For example, the numbers 
coming from China (and several other countries) are by design government based. 
But to brush them all off as "government or corporations" is being naive at 
least.

I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a high 
percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of otherwise 
healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some point, we will 
figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor that we just do not 
understand yet.

I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do not 
believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is probably a 
personal thing.

bp

 

On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?  At 
what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% 
accurate numbers?

 

I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from all 
over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid deaths.  
Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already dying and 
died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being attributed to 
covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20% misrepresented.  So as 
long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the statistics are not accurate. 
 

 

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

 


  _  


From: "Bill Prince"   
To: "af"   
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we 
don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a 
whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think 
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country 
and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat 
that might fit real well.

 

bp

 

On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still is 
just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people if 
they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had 
them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.  

 

Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.  

 

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)

 


  _  


From: "chuck"   
To: "af"   
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 



 

Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we are 
on the tail of a normal curve.  

6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a huge 
spike after.  


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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Jason McKemie]

I don't think most infections have pre-existing conditions, but it
certainly seems like most deaths do.

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:03 AM Bill Prince  wrote:

> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or
> corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the
> numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria.
> That is true for the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For
> example, the numbers coming from China (and several other countries) are by
> design government based. But to brush them all off as "government or
> corporations" is being naive at least.
>
> I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a
> high percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of
> otherwise healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some
> point, we will figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor
> that we just do not understand yet.
>
> I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do
> not believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is
> probably a personal thing.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>
> You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?
> At what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100%
> accurate numbers?
>
> I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from
> all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid
> deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already
> dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being
> attributed to covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20%
> misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the
> statistics are not accurate.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
> *To: *"af"  
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when
> we don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably)
> missed a whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If
> you think under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals
> around the country and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of
> us, then I have a tin hat that might fit real well.
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>
> Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still
> is just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people
> if they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they
> had them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.
>
> Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"chuck"  
> *To: *"af"  
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> [image: image]
>
> Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we
> are on the tail of a normal curve.
> 6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a
> huge spike after.
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[chuck]

I think the A numero uno goal is to figure out how to keep people alive.

Then try to figure out how to keep people from contracting the disease from 
others.

Then a vaccine.  

From: Robert 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 10:02 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Which is why there are accurate numbers out there but why aren't they being 
used as baselines for comparisons instead of what what done, by example, by Dr. 
Erickson?  Simply because of agendas.   Both ways and sideways.  There are so 
many focusing on themselves instead of the society that it's all f'd up.   
Testing, testing, testing.   It should be A numero uno objective of every group 
that has the ability to contribute to that.  That's what gets the good results 
in countries that are beating this.


On 5/5/20 7:27 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Well, every single person that dies in Utah is tested for the virus and this 
has been happening for a couple of months.  The guy in charge of the testing is 
the Lt Gov.  A personal friend of mine.  Yes, I do think our numbers are 
accurate.  Dead on here in Utah. 

  From: Steven Kenney 
  Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 7:55 AM
  To: af 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

  You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?  At 
what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% 
accurate numbers?

  I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from 
all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid 
deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already 
dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being 
attributed to covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20% 
misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the 
statistics are not accurate.  

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)


--

  From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
  To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?


  The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we 
don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a 
whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think 
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country 
and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat 
that might fit real well.



bp


On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still is 
just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people if 
they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had 
them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.  

Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)




From: "chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?




Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we 
are on the tail of a normal curve.  
6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a 
huge spike after.  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Mathew Howard]

It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have been
in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous years
(yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article, but I'm
too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). We can argue
all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack died because
they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated heart attack and
just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether they should be
counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If say, an average of
10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 years, and this year
15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on
covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people actually died of covid, but
1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, and it just happened to be covid
that finished them off instead, or if 500 got so sick of sitting in front
of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were never infected.

I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many
people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a
few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths
there were.

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
> because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you
> read the article, they go out of their way to point out possible errors in
> the data, as well as other influences like overloaded healthcare system led
> to people dying of other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and
> violence.  And the data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper
> didn’t make them up to suit a political agenda or bias.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
>
>
>
> In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted
> because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and
> crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis,
> you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled
> as Covid related to suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and
> nursing home deaths.  OK, sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a
> hoax.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or
> corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the
> numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria.
> That is true for the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For
> example, the numbers coming from China (and several other countries) are by
> design government based. But to brush them all off as "government or
> corporations" is being naive at least.
>
> I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a
> high percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of
> otherwise healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some
> point, we will figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor
> that we just do not understand yet.
>
> I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do
> not believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is
> probably a personal thing.
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>
> You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?
> At what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100%
> accurate numbers?
>
>
>
> I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from
> all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid
> deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already
> dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being
> attributed to covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20%
> misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the
> statistics are not accurate.
>
>
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
>
> --
>
> *From: *"Bill Prince"  
> *To: *"af"  
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when
> we don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably)
> missed a whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If
> you think under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals
> around the country and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of
> us, then I have a tin hat that might fit real well.
>
>
>
> bp

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Archeologists in 100 years will figure this out with 20%
  certainty.


bp



On 5/5/2020 9:59 AM, Mathew Howard
  wrote:


  
  It seems to me, that what really matters is how
many deaths there have been in excess of what the average was
for the same period in previous years (yes, I know that's what
they're talking about in the NYT article, but I'm too lazy to
read it all and see how much detail they go into). We can argue
all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack died
because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated
heart attack and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and
whether they should be counted, but in the end, it doesn't
really matter. If say, an average of 10,000 people died in X
state in April for the past 5 years, and this year 15,000 died,
then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on covid.
It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people actually died of covid,
but 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, and it just
happened to be covid that finished them off instead, or if 500
got so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they jumped off a
bridge and were never infected.


I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers
  of how many people directly died of the infection (other than
  maybe in Utah), but in a few months we should have pretty
  accurate numbers of how many excess deaths there were.
  
  
  
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22
  AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:


  

  Those who suspect an “agenda” will
immediately dispute these graphs because the source is
NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you read
the article, they go out of their way to point out
possible errors in the data, as well as other influences
like overloaded healthcare system led to people dying of
other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and
violence.  And the data as Bill says is from other
sources, the paper didn’t make them up to suit a
political agenda or bias.
   
  https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
   
  In other countries like Italy, no
doubt the deaths were undercounted because the system
was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and
crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in
refrigerated semis, you can’t possibly claim these are
just the normal deaths being mislabeled as Covid related
to suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and
nursing home deaths.  OK, sure, elderly people croak all
the time, it’s a hoax.
   
   
  

  From: AF 
On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

  
   
  The numbers posted on various web sites are neither
government sourced or corporate sourced. Hospitals,
clinics, and morgues are supplying the numbers. There is
a level of uncertainty because of different criteria.
That is true for the US cases, but probably not for
other countries. For example, the numbers coming from
China (and several other countries) are by design
government based. But to brush them all off as
"government or corporations" is being naive at least.
  I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing
conditions. Maybe a high percentage, but it does not
explain why such a large number of otherwise healthy
people are being infected the way they are. At some
point, we will figure out that there is a genetic or
environmental factor that we just do not understand yet.
  I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100%
accurate, but I also do not believe the numbers are 100%
fictitious either. Where you cut off is probably a
personal thing.
  bp
  
   
  
On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney
  wrote:
  
  

  
You
 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

At some point, humans are going to have to accept the fact the mother
nature will always win. Its not PC, but fact of the matter is we keep
people alive that otherwise wouldnt have been in the gene pool, and then
they breed. Eugenics in its basic form is correct. We dont simply have more
diabetics because we eat like garbage, we have more diabetics because
diabetics dont die like mother nature intended and then they breed and then
eat like garbage.
It could be that this virus kills those with comorbidity by design, whether
by natures selection or by some scientists hand, at this point it doesnt
really matter, its like buying a toilet after you already pooped on the
floor.

also, I have a sore throat, I had a good run guys, thanks for all the good
times

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

> It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
> been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous
> years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article,
> but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). We
> can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack died
> because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated heart attack
> and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether they should be
> counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If say, an average of
> 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 years, and this year
> 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on
> covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people actually died of covid, but
> 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, and it just happened to be covid
> that finished them off instead, or if 500 got so sick of sitting in front
> of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were never infected.
>
> I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many
> people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a
> few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths
> there were.
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
>> because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you
>> read the article, they go out of their way to point out possible errors in
>> the data, as well as other influences like overloaded healthcare system led
>> to people dying of other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and
>> violence.  And the data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper
>> didn’t make them up to suit a political agenda or bias.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
>>
>>
>>
>> In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted
>> because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and
>> crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis,
>> you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled
>> as Covid related to suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and
>> nursing home deaths.  OK, sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a
>> hoax.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>>
>>
>> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or
>> corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the
>> numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria.
>> That is true for the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For
>> example, the numbers coming from China (and several other countries) are by
>> design government based. But to brush them all off as "government or
>> corporations" is being naive at least.
>>
>> I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe
>> a high percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of
>> otherwise healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some
>> point, we will figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor
>> that we just do not understand yet.
>>
>> I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do
>> not believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is
>> probably a personal thing.
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>>
>> You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?
>> At what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100%
>> accurate numbers?
>>
>>
>>
>> I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports
>> from all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as
>> covid deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and many were
>> already dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  a

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

So, is the plan here going to be that we attribute the effects of the cure
being worse than the disease to the disease itself? That is a slick willy
if I ever saw one. Like the Foster kid that died a week ago from not being
able to get into his treatment for his cancer trial. Is that going to
attributed to COVID, its a direct result of the lockdown, which is a direct
result of COVID or the murder suicide where the fella thought he and his
wife might have it (they tested negative post mortem). thats a +3

"In Puerto Rico in 2017, only 64 deaths were initially attributed

to
Hurricane Maria. But an analysis of the additional deaths showed the way
that the disaster had, directly and indirectly, led to nearly 3,000 deaths

over
six months. The total included the immediate deaths from mudslides and
drownings, but also sepsis, diabetes and suicides that came later as the
power failure stretched on for months."

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:09 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> At some point, humans are going to have to accept the fact the mother
> nature will always win. Its not PC, but fact of the matter is we keep
> people alive that otherwise wouldnt have been in the gene pool, and then
> they breed. Eugenics in its basic form is correct. We dont simply have more
> diabetics because we eat like garbage, we have more diabetics because
> diabetics dont die like mother nature intended and then they breed and then
> eat like garbage.
> It could be that this virus kills those with comorbidity by design,
> whether by natures selection or by some scientists hand, at this point it
> doesnt really matter, its like buying a toilet after you already pooped on
> the floor.
>
> also, I have a sore throat, I had a good run guys, thanks for all the good
> times
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
>> It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
>> been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous
>> years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article,
>> but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). We
>> can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack died
>> because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated heart attack
>> and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether they should be
>> counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If say, an average of
>> 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 years, and this year
>> 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on
>> covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people actually died of covid, but
>> 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, and it just happened to be covid
>> that finished them off instead, or if 500 got so sick of sitting in front
>> of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were never infected.
>>
>> I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many
>> people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a
>> few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths
>> there were.
>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
>>> because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you
>>> read the article, they go out of their way to point out possible errors in
>>> the data, as well as other influences like overloaded healthcare system led
>>> to people dying of other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and
>>> violence.  And the data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper
>>> didn’t make them up to suit a political agenda or bias.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted
>>> because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and
>>> crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis,
>>> you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled
>>> as Covid related to suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and
>>> nursing home deaths.  OK, sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a
>>> hoax.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced
>>> or corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the
>>> numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria.
>>> That is 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steven Kenney]

I could have swore Hospitals in the USA were businesses and not government 
agencies? AKA an incorporated business? 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "Bill Prince"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:02:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 



The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or 
corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the numbers. 
There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria. That is true for 
the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For example, the numbers 
coming from China (and several other countries) are by design government based. 
But to brush them all off as "government or corporations" is being naive at 
least. 

I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a high 
percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of otherwise 
healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some point, we will 
figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor that we just do not 
understand yet. 

I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do not 
believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is probably a 
personal thing. 
bp
 
On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: 



You guys work with statistics much? You think the numbers are accurate? At what 
point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% accurate 
numbers? 

I'll let you do your own homework. But I've seen hundreds of reports from all 
over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid deaths. 
Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already dying and 
died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc) are being attributed to 
covid. Some people have estimated that upward of 20% misrepresented. So as long 
as there is 1 case that is questionable - the statistics are not accurate. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
[ http://www.wavedirect.net/ | http://www.wavedirect.net ] 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "Bill Prince" [ mailto:part15...@gmail.com |  ] 
To: "af" [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com |  ] 
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 



The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we 
don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a 
whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think 
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country 
and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat 
that might fit real well. 


bp
 
On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Numbers are completely false. Even with that taken into regard it still is just 
as lethal as the regular flu. While it is way more harsh on people if they get 
it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had them, or 
didn't take it serious when they got it. 

Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
[ http://www.wavedirect.net/ | http://www.wavedirect.net ] 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "chuck" [ mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com |  ] 
To: "af" [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com |  ] 
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 

Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart... Let’s hope we are on 
the tail of a normal curve. 
6 days in a row decline. But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a huge 
spike after. 

-- 
AF mailing list 
[ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ] 
[ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com | 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ] 




-- 
AF mailing list 
[ mailto:AF@af.afmug.com | AF@af.afmug.com ] 
[ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com | 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ] 


BQ_END

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[chuck]

Some are, some are non profits, some are educational institutions but a whole 
bunch of them are guvmnt institutions the VA for one.  

From: Steven Kenney 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:31 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

I could have swore Hospitals in the USA were businesses and not government 
agencies? AKA an incorporated business?

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)




From: "Bill Prince" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:02:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?


The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or 
corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the numbers. 
There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria. That is true for 
the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For example, the numbers 
coming from China (and several other countries) are by design government based. 
But to brush them all off as "government or corporations" is being naive at 
least.

I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a high 
percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of otherwise 
healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some point, we will 
figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor that we just do not 
understand yet.

I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do not 
believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is probably a 
personal thing.

bp


On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

  You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?  At 
what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% 
accurate numbers?

  I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from 
all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid 
deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already 
dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being 
attributed to covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20% 
misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the 
statistics are not accurate.  

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)


--

  From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
  To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?


  The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we 
don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a 
whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think 
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country 
and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat 
that might fit real well.



bp


On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still is 
just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people if 
they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had 
them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.  

Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)




From: "chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?




Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we 
are on the tail of a normal curve.  
6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a 
huge spike after.  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


 

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


   

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steven Kenney]

Can summarize this pretty easily. These are facts that probably we can agree 
upon. 

1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome. 
2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu 
3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and 
predictions are all off) 
4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than 
countries that did. 
5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe! 

These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute certainty these 
things are correct. 

1) The virus originated from China 
2) It originated from a lab studying the virus. 
3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally. 
4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old, young, 
white, black, asian etc) 
5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100% accurate. 
There are cases all over of under reporting and over reporting. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "Mathew Howard"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 

It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have been in 
excess of what the average was for the same period in previous years (yes, I 
know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article, but I'm too lazy to 
read it all and see how much detail they go into). We can argue all day about 
whether somebody that died of a heart attack died because they had covid19 or 
whether they just had an unrelated heart attack and just happened to have a 
mild case of covid, and whether they should be counted, but in the end, it 
doesn't really matter. If say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in 
April for the past 5 years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty 
safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 
people actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, 
and it just happened to be covid that finished them off instead, or if 500 got 
so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were 
never infected. 
I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many people 
directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a few months 
we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths there were. 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof < [ mailto:af...@kwisp.com | 
af...@kwisp.com ] > wrote: 





Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs because the 
source is NYT which they will perceive as biased. But if you read the article, 
they go out of their way to point out possible errors in the data, as well as 
other influences like overloaded healthcare system led to people dying of other 
causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and violence. And the data as Bill 
says is from other sources, the paper didn’t make them up to suit a political 
agenda or bias. 



[ 
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
 | 
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
 ] 



In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted because 
the system was overwhelmed. Even in NYC, the morgues and crematories are 
overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis, you can’t possibly 
claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled as Covid related to 
suit an agenda. Then you have all the prison and nursing home deaths. OK, sure, 
elderly people croak all the time, it’s a hoax. 






From: AF < [ mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com | af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] > On 
Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM 
To: [ mailto:af@af.afmug.com | af@af.afmug.com ] 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 




The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or 
corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the numbers. 
There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria. That is true for 
the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For example, the numbers 
coming from China (and several other countries) are by design government based. 
But to brush them all off as "government or corporations" is being naive at 
least. 

I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a high 
percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of otherwise 
healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some point, we will 
figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor that we just do not 
understand yet. 

I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do not 
believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is probably a 
personal thing. 
bp 
 


On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN



You guys work with statistic

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steven Kenney]

Missing the point. 

Fallible people are providing the stats. Therefore the statistics are not 100% 
accurate. Therefore my argument stands. 

-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 


From: "chuck"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 1:40:58 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 

Some are, some are non profits, some are educational institutions but a whole 
bunch of them are guvmnt institutions the VA for one. 
From: Steven Kenney 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:31 AM 
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 
I could have swore Hospitals in the USA were businesses and not government 
agencies? AKA an incorporated business? 
-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 

From: "Bill Prince"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:02:28 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 


The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or 
corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the numbers. 
There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria. That is true for 
the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For example, the numbers 
coming from China (and several other countries) are by design government based. 
But to brush them all off as "government or corporations" is being naive at 
least. 

I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a high 
percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of otherwise 
healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some point, we will 
figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor that we just do not 
understand yet. 

I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do not 
believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is probably a 
personal thing. 
bp
 
On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: 



You guys work with statistics much? You think the numbers are accurate? At what 
point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% accurate 
numbers? 
I'll let you do your own homework. But I've seen hundreds of reports from all 
over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid deaths. 
Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already dying and 
died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc) are being attributed to 
covid. Some people have estimated that upward of 20% misrepresented. So as long 
as there is 1 case that is questionable - the statistics are not accurate. 
-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
[ http://www.wavedirect.net/ | http://www.wavedirect.net ] 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 

From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com 
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 


The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we 
don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a 
whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think 
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country 
and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat 
that might fit real well. 


bp
 
On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: 

BQ_BEGIN

Numbers are completely false. Even with that taken into regard it still is just 
as lethal as the regular flu. While it is way more harsh on people if they get 
it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had them, or 
didn't take it serious when they got it. 
Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda. 
-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
[ http://www.wavedirect.net/ | http://www.wavedirect.net ] 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 

From: "chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 
Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart... Let’s hope we are on 
the tail of a normal curve. 
6 days in a row decline. But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a huge 
spike after. 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
[ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com | 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ] 




-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
[ http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com | 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com ] 


BQ_END

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 



-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 

-- 
AF mailing list 
AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com 
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afm

[AFMUG] CBRS PAL auction

[Adam Moffett]

So if I'm understanding correctly, there's an up front payment to 
participate in the auction.  That's $0.01 per Mhz/POP.  The licenses are 
for a County.  So if my county has 190,000 people and I want 20Mhz, then 
I pony up $38,000 /for the privilege of participating in the auction/.  
And then if I get outbid by AT&T or Google then I've spent $38,000 and 
have nothing to show for it.


Did I get that right?


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CBRS PAL auction

[Steve Jones]

I havent found any company that even offers guidance service on this. its
confusing

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:55 PM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> So if I'm understanding correctly, there's an up front payment to
> participate in the auction.  That's $0.01 per Mhz/POP.  The licenses are
> for a County.  So if my county has 190,000 people and I want 20Mhz, then I
> pony up $38,000 *for the privilege of participating in the auction*.  And
> then if I get outbid by AT&T or Google then I've spent $38,000 and have
> nothing to show for it.
>
> Did I get that right?
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Ken Hohhof]

So it took 6 weeks for us to talk about letting granny die.  And apparently to 
start planning cannibalism:

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/g5xzej/increasingly-desperate-alex-jones-says-he-will-kill-and-eat-his-neighbors

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:10 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

At some point, humans are going to have to accept the fact the mother nature 
will always win. Its not PC, but fact of the matter is we keep people alive 
that otherwise wouldnt have been in the gene pool, and then they breed. 
Eugenics in its basic form is correct. We dont simply have more diabetics 
because we eat like garbage, we have more diabetics because diabetics dont die 
like mother nature intended and then they breed and then eat like garbage. 

It could be that this virus kills those with comorbidity by design, whether by 
natures selection or by some scientists hand, at this point it doesnt really 
matter, its like buying a toilet after you already pooped on the floor.  

 

also, I have a sore throat, I had a good run guys, thanks for all the good times

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> > wrote:

It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have been in 
excess of what the average was for the same period in previous years (yes, I 
know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article, but I'm too lazy to 
read it all and see how much detail they go into). We can argue all day about 
whether somebody that died of a heart attack died because they had covid19 or 
whether they just had an unrelated heart attack and just happened to have a 
mild case of covid, and whether they should be counted, but in the end, it 
doesn't really matter. If say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in 
April for the past 5 years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty 
safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 
people actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, 
and it just happened to be covid that finished them off instead, or if 500 got 
so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were 
never infected.

 

I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many people 
directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a few months 
we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths there were.

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs because the 
source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you read the article, 
they go out of their way to point out possible errors in the data, as well as 
other influences like overloaded healthcare system led to people dying of other 
causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and violence.  And the data as Bill 
says is from other sources, the paper didn’t make them up to suit a political 
agenda or bias.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

 

In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted because 
the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and crematories are 
overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis, you can’t possibly 
claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled as Covid related to 
suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and nursing home deaths.  OK, 
sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a hoax.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or 
corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the numbers. 
There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria. That is true for 
the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For example, the numbers 
coming from China (and several other countries) are by design government based. 
But to brush them all off as "government or corporations" is being naive at 
least.

I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a high 
percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of otherwise 
healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some point, we will 
figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor that we just do not 
understand yet.

I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do not 
believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is probably a 
personal thing.

bp

 

On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?  At 
what point have you ever seen government or corporat

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

2 and 5 are not agreed upon in the first list at all
1 is pretty well settled on globally in the second

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:41 PM Steven Kenney  wrote:

> Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> agree upon.
>
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> predictions are all off)
> 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> countries that did.
> 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
>
> These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute certainty
> these things are correct.
>
> 1) The virus originated from China
> 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> young, white, black, asian etc)
> 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100%
> accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over reporting.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
> been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous
> years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article,
> but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). We
> can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack died
> because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated heart attack
> and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether they should be
> counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If say, an average of
> 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 years, and this year
> 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on
> covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people actually died of covid, but
> 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, and it just happened to be covid
> that finished them off instead, or if 500 got so sick of sitting in front
> of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were never infected.
> I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many
> people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a
> few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths
> there were.
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
>> because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you
>> read the article, they go out of their way to point out possible errors in
>> the data, as well as other influences like overloaded healthcare system led
>> to people dying of other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and
>> violence.  And the data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper
>> didn’t make them up to suit a political agenda or bias.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
>>
>>
>>
>> In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted
>> because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and
>> crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis,
>> you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled
>> as Covid related to suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and
>> nursing home deaths.  OK, sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a
>> hoax.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>>
>>
>> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or
>> corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the
>> numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria.
>> That is true for the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For
>> example, the numbers coming from China (and several other countries) are by
>> design government based. But to brush them all off as "government or
>> corporations" is being naive at least.
>>
>> I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe
>> a high percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of
>> otherwise healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some
>> point, we will figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor
>> that we just do not understand yet.
>>
>> I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do
>> not believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

Alex Jones is amazing. Hes probably the dumbest man on the planet and is
able to get millions of people to follow him even though hes been
deplatformed everywhere.  I hate those punchanazi guys, because half the
people they punch arent nazis, but i could support the punch alex jones
crowd

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:02 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> So it took 6 weeks for us to talk about letting granny die.  And
> apparently to start planning cannibalism:
>
>
> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/g5xzej/increasingly-desperate-alex-jones-says-he-will-kill-and-eat-his-neighbors
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:10 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> At some point, humans are going to have to accept the fact the mother
> nature will always win. Its not PC, but fact of the matter is we keep
> people alive that otherwise wouldnt have been in the gene pool, and then
> they breed. Eugenics in its basic form is correct. We dont simply have more
> diabetics because we eat like garbage, we have more diabetics because
> diabetics dont die like mother nature intended and then they breed and then
> eat like garbage.
>
> It could be that this virus kills those with comorbidity by design,
> whether by natures selection or by some scientists hand, at this point it
> doesnt really matter, its like buying a toilet after you already pooped on
> the floor.
>
>
>
> also, I have a sore throat, I had a good run guys, thanks for all the good
> times
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
> wrote:
>
> It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
> been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous
> years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article,
> but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). We
> can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack died
> because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated heart attack
> and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether they should be
> counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If say, an average of
> 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 years, and this year
> 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on
> covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people actually died of covid, but
> 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, and it just happened to be covid
> that finished them off instead, or if 500 got so sick of sitting in front
> of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were never infected.
>
>
>
> I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many
> people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a
> few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths
> there were.
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
> because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you
> read the article, they go out of their way to point out possible errors in
> the data, as well as other influences like overloaded healthcare system led
> to people dying of other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and
> violence.  And the data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper
> didn’t make them up to suit a political agenda or bias.
>
>
>
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
>
>
>
> In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted
> because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and
> crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis,
> you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled
> as Covid related to suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and
> nursing home deaths.  OK, sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a
> hoax.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or
> corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the
> numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria.
> That is true for the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For
> example, the numbers coming from China (and several other countries) are by
> design government based. But to brush them all off as "government or
> corporations" is being naive at least.
>
> I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a
> high percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of
> otherwise healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some
> point, we will figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor
> that we just do n

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Carl Peterson]

#4 on your "we can agree on" list is pretty inaccurate IMHO.   Sweden V
Denmark.  Certainly not the same statistics, and it isn't like Sweden is
doing nothing, they are just better at following the rules so they get to
act like adults while we are more like kindergarteners so we all all get a
timeout.


2 and 3 on your debatable points are pretty speculative and leading.  It is
Highly unlikely that it had anything to do with a lab.  If I was writing
the list, I would say that all reasonable people could agree that it was
not intentionally released from a lab.

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:49 PM Steven Kenney  wrote:

> Missing the point.
>
> Fallible people are providing the stats.  Therefore the statistics are not
> 100% accurate.  Therefore my argument stands.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"chuck" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 1:40:58 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> Some are, some are non profits, some are educational institutions but a
> whole bunch of them are guvmnt institutions the VA for one.
>
> *From:* Steven Kenney
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:31 AM
> *To:* af
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> I could have swore Hospitals in the USA were businesses and not government
> agencies? AKA an incorporated business?
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"Bill Prince" 
> *To: *"af" 
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:02:28 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or
> corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the
> numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria.
> That is true for the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For
> example, the numbers coming from China (and several other countries) are by
> design government based. But to brush them all off as "government or
> corporations" is being naive at least.
>
> I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a
> high percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of
> otherwise healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some
> point, we will figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor
> that we just do not understand yet.
>
> I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do
> not believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is
> probably a personal thing.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>
> You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?
> At what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100%
> accurate numbers?
>
> I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from
> all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid
> deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already
> dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being
> attributed to covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20%
> misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the
> statistics are not accurate.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
> *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
> The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when
> we don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably)
> missed a whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If
> you think under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals
> around the country and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of
> us, then I have a tin hat that might fit real well.
>
>
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>
> Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still
> is just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people
> if they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they
> had them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.
>
> Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> --
> *From: *"chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> [image: image]
>

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Mathew Howard]

It's not really wrong to attribute deaths that were caused by the cure to
the disease, since they wouldn't happened without it... the thing that we
can't ever know, unfortunately, is whether there would have been more or
less deaths without the cure. We'll maybe we will know, if half the world
starves to death in a few years...

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:26 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> So, is the plan here going to be that we attribute the effects of the cure
> being worse than the disease to the disease itself? That is a slick willy
> if I ever saw one. Like the Foster kid that died a week ago from not being
> able to get into his treatment for his cancer trial. Is that going to
> attributed to COVID, its a direct result of the lockdown, which is a direct
> result of COVID or the murder suicide where the fella thought he and his
> wife might have it (they tested negative post mortem). thats a +3
>
> "In Puerto Rico in 2017, only 64 deaths were initially attributed
> 
>  to
> Hurricane Maria. But an analysis of the additional deaths showed the way
> that the disaster had, directly and indirectly, led to nearly 3,000 deaths
> 
>  over
> six months. The total included the immediate deaths from mudslides and
> drownings, but also sepsis, diabetes and suicides that came later as the
> power failure stretched on for months."
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:09 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> At some point, humans are going to have to accept the fact the mother
>> nature will always win. Its not PC, but fact of the matter is we keep
>> people alive that otherwise wouldnt have been in the gene pool, and then
>> they breed. Eugenics in its basic form is correct. We dont simply have more
>> diabetics because we eat like garbage, we have more diabetics because
>> diabetics dont die like mother nature intended and then they breed and then
>> eat like garbage.
>> It could be that this virus kills those with comorbidity by design,
>> whether by natures selection or by some scientists hand, at this point it
>> doesnt really matter, its like buying a toilet after you already pooped on
>> the floor.
>>
>> also, I have a sore throat, I had a good run guys, thanks for all the
>> good times
>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
>>> been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous
>>> years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article,
>>> but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). We
>>> can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack died
>>> because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated heart attack
>>> and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether they should be
>>> counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If say, an average of
>>> 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 years, and this year
>>> 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on
>>> covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people actually died of covid, but
>>> 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, and it just happened to be covid
>>> that finished them off instead, or if 500 got so sick of sitting in front
>>> of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were never infected.
>>>
>>> I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many
>>> people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a
>>> few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths
>>> there were.
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
 Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
 because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you
 read the article, they go out of their way to point out possible errors in
 the data, as well as other influences like overloaded healthcare system led
 to people dying of other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and
 violence.  And the data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper
 didn’t make them up to suit a political agenda or bias.




 https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html



 In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted
 because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and
 crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis,
 you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled
 as Covid related to suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and
 nursing home deaths.  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Carl Peterson]

"1 is pretty well settled on globally in the second"

I agree with Steve on something!!!

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:07 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> Alex Jones is amazing. Hes probably the dumbest man on the planet and is
> able to get millions of people to follow him even though hes been
> deplatformed everywhere.  I hate those punchanazi guys, because half the
> people they punch arent nazis, but i could support the punch alex jones
> crowd
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:02 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> So it took 6 weeks for us to talk about letting granny die.  And
>> apparently to start planning cannibalism:
>>
>>
>> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/g5xzej/increasingly-desperate-alex-jones-says-he-will-kill-and-eat-his-neighbors
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:10 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>>
>>
>> At some point, humans are going to have to accept the fact the mother
>> nature will always win. Its not PC, but fact of the matter is we keep
>> people alive that otherwise wouldnt have been in the gene pool, and then
>> they breed. Eugenics in its basic form is correct. We dont simply have more
>> diabetics because we eat like garbage, we have more diabetics because
>> diabetics dont die like mother nature intended and then they breed and then
>> eat like garbage.
>>
>> It could be that this virus kills those with comorbidity by design,
>> whether by natures selection or by some scientists hand, at this point it
>> doesnt really matter, its like buying a toilet after you already pooped on
>> the floor.
>>
>>
>>
>> also, I have a sore throat, I had a good run guys, thanks for all the
>> good times
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>> wrote:
>>
>> It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
>> been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous
>> years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article,
>> but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). We
>> can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack died
>> because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated heart attack
>> and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether they should be
>> counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If say, an average of
>> 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 years, and this year
>> 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on
>> covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people actually died of covid, but
>> 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, and it just happened to be covid
>> that finished them off instead, or if 500 got so sick of sitting in front
>> of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were never infected.
>>
>>
>>
>> I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many
>> people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a
>> few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths
>> there were.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>> Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
>> because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you
>> read the article, they go out of their way to point out possible errors in
>> the data, as well as other influences like overloaded healthcare system led
>> to people dying of other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and
>> violence.  And the data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper
>> didn’t make them up to suit a political agenda or bias.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
>>
>>
>>
>> In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted
>> because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and
>> crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis,
>> you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled
>> as Covid related to suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and
>> nursing home deaths.  OK, sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a
>> hoax.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>>
>>
>> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or
>> corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the
>> numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria.
>> That is true for the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For
>> example, the numbers coming from China (and several other countries) are by
>> design government based. But to brush them all off as "government or
>> corporations" is being naive at least.
>>
>> I would not say that "most" patients have pre-e

[AFMUG] Elevation question

[chuck]

I have a pretty good GPS receiver.  Trimble R8 with a Yuma data collector.  
Normally we use it only for lats and longs.
It is corrected in real time with a cellular data modem and a RTK/VRS ground 
station network.

Yesterday we did a shot from a hill that did not exist when shuttle radar data 
was taken.  It was way off in elevation.  
So we took a shot from our parking lot and compared it with what we think we 
know to be the altitude as well as our cell phones and google earth.

Turns out the R8 has an ellipsoid height as well as another height associated 
with the northing and easting values.  
The second one seems to be more in line with what I was expecting.  
The local dealer sent me a drawing showing this.  (attached) 

So now I am super confused.  Not sure what number to use when working with 
Radio Mobile.  Do I add the geoid height to the ellipsoid height?

Was hoping Brian Webster may know or others may know.  Googling google earth 
elevation talks about different versions of geoid.  Not sure if their 
elevations are geoid elevations or not.  

So, rather than dig into it any more I am taking the lazy approach and posting 
the question here.  -- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[chuck]

Statistical accuracy is probably normal.  How many standard deviations do you 
want?

From: Steven Kenney 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:48 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Missing the point.  

Fallible people are providing the stats.  Therefore the statistics are not 100% 
accurate.  Therefore my argument stands.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)




From: "chuck" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 1:40:58 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?


Some are, some are non profits, some are educational institutions but a whole 
bunch of them are guvmnt institutions the VA for one.  

From: Steven Kenney 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:31 AM
To: af 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

I could have swore Hospitals in the USA were businesses and not government 
agencies? AKA an incorporated business?

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)




From: "Bill Prince" 
To: "af" 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:02:28 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?


The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or 
corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the numbers. 
There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria. That is true for 
the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For example, the numbers 
coming from China (and several other countries) are by design government based. 
But to brush them all off as "government or corporations" is being naive at 
least.

I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a high 
percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of otherwise 
healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some point, we will 
figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor that we just do not 
understand yet.

I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do not 
believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is probably a 
personal thing.

bp


On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

  You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?  At 
what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% 
accurate numbers?

  I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports from 
all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid 
deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already 
dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are being 
attributed to covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20% 
misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the 
statistics are not accurate.  

  -- 
  Steven Kenney
  Network Operations Manager
  WaveDirect Telecommunications
  http://www.wavedirect.net
  (519)737-WAVE (9283)


--

  From: "Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
  To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?


  The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we 
don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a 
whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think 
under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country 
and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat 
that might fit real well.



bp


On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:

Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still is 
just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people if 
they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had 
them, or didn't take it serious when they got it.  

Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda.  

-- 
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)




From: "chuck" mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?




Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart...  Let’s hope we 
are on the tail of a normal curve.  
6 days in a row decline.  But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a 
huge spike after.  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


 

  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afm

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Mathew Howard]

Yeah... I was going to point out #4... what countries have actually done
nothing? Sweden is the usual example, but what they did was far from
nothing... they just didn't do the same thing as everybody else.

Belarus basically did nothing, but even there, their borders were still
effectively closed (just not by choice, in that case).

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:08 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> #4 on your "we can agree on" list is pretty inaccurate IMHO.   Sweden V
> Denmark.  Certainly not the same statistics, and it isn't like Sweden is
> doing nothing, they are just better at following the rules so they get to
> act like adults while we are more like kindergarteners so we all all get a
> timeout.
>
>
> 2 and 3 on your debatable points are pretty speculative and leading.  It
> is Highly unlikely that it had anything to do with a lab.  If I was writing
> the list, I would say that all reasonable people could agree that it was
> not intentionally released from a lab.
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:49 PM Steven Kenney 
> wrote:
>
>> Missing the point.
>>
>> Fallible people are providing the stats.  Therefore the statistics are
>> not 100% accurate.  Therefore my argument stands.
>>
>> --
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"chuck" 
>> *To: *"af" 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 1:40:58 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>> Some are, some are non profits, some are educational institutions but a
>> whole bunch of them are guvmnt institutions the VA for one.
>>
>> *From:* Steven Kenney
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:31 AM
>> *To:* af
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>> I could have swore Hospitals in the USA were businesses and not
>> government agencies? AKA an incorporated business?
>>
>> --
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Bill Prince" 
>> *To: *"af" 
>> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:02:28 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>>
>> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or
>> corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the
>> numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria.
>> That is true for the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For
>> example, the numbers coming from China (and several other countries) are by
>> design government based. But to brush them all off as "government or
>> corporations" is being naive at least.
>>
>> I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe
>> a high percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of
>> otherwise healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some
>> point, we will figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor
>> that we just do not understand yet.
>>
>> I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do
>> not believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is
>> probably a personal thing.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>>
>> You guys work with statistics much?  You think the numbers are accurate?
>> At what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100%
>> accurate numbers?
>>
>> I'll let you do your own homework.  But I've seen hundreds of reports
>> from all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as
>> covid deaths.  Since most patients have existing conditions and many were
>> already dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc)  are
>> being attributed to covid.  Some people have estimated that upward of 20%
>> misrepresented.  So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the
>> statistics are not accurate.
>>
>> --
>> Steven Kenney
>> Network Operations Manager
>> WaveDirect Telecommunications
>> http://www.wavedirect.net
>> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"Bill Prince" mailto:part15...@gmail.com
>> *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>>
>> The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when
>> we don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably)
>> missed a whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If
>> you think under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals
>> around the country and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of
>> us, then I have a tin hat that might fit real well.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>>
>> Numbers are completely false.  Even with that taken into regard it still
>> is just as lethal as the regular flu.  While it is way more harsh on people
>> if they get it, most people h

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

i disagree

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:09 PM Carl Peterson 
wrote:

> "1 is pretty well settled on globally in the second"
>
> I agree with Steve on something!!!
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:07 PM Steve Jones 
> wrote:
>
>> Alex Jones is amazing. Hes probably the dumbest man on the planet and is
>> able to get millions of people to follow him even though hes been
>> deplatformed everywhere.  I hate those punchanazi guys, because half the
>> people they punch arent nazis, but i could support the punch alex jones
>> crowd
>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:02 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>
>>> So it took 6 weeks for us to talk about letting granny die.  And
>>> apparently to start planning cannibalism:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/g5xzej/increasingly-desperate-alex-jones-says-he-will-kill-and-eat-his-neighbors
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:10 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At some point, humans are going to have to accept the fact the mother
>>> nature will always win. Its not PC, but fact of the matter is we keep
>>> people alive that otherwise wouldnt have been in the gene pool, and then
>>> they breed. Eugenics in its basic form is correct. We dont simply have more
>>> diabetics because we eat like garbage, we have more diabetics because
>>> diabetics dont die like mother nature intended and then they breed and then
>>> eat like garbage.
>>>
>>> It could be that this virus kills those with comorbidity by design,
>>> whether by natures selection or by some scientists hand, at this point it
>>> doesnt really matter, its like buying a toilet after you already pooped on
>>> the floor.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> also, I have a sore throat, I had a good run guys, thanks for all the
>>> good times
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
>>> been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous
>>> years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article,
>>> but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). We
>>> can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack died
>>> because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated heart attack
>>> and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether they should be
>>> counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If say, an average of
>>> 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 years, and this year
>>> 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on
>>> covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people actually died of covid, but
>>> 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, and it just happened to be covid
>>> that finished them off instead, or if 500 got so sick of sitting in front
>>> of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were never infected.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many
>>> people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a
>>> few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths
>>> there were.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>>
>>> Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
>>> because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you
>>> read the article, they go out of their way to point out possible errors in
>>> the data, as well as other influences like overloaded healthcare system led
>>> to people dying of other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and
>>> violence.  And the data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper
>>> didn’t make them up to suit a political agenda or bias.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted
>>> because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and
>>> crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis,
>>> you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled
>>> as Covid related to suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and
>>> nursing home deaths.  OK, sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a
>>> hoax.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced
>>> or corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the
>>> numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria.
>>> That is true for the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For
>>> example, the numbers coming from China (and several o

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[chuck]

Did you follow the season of Homeland where they an an Alex Jones character?

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:06 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Alex Jones is amazing. Hes probably the dumbest man on the planet and is able 
to get millions of people to follow him even though hes been deplatformed 
everywhere.  I hate those punchanazi guys, because half the people they punch 
arent nazis, but i could support the punch alex jones crowd

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:02 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  So it took 6 weeks for us to talk about letting granny die.  And apparently 
to start planning cannibalism:

  
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/g5xzej/increasingly-desperate-alex-jones-says-he-will-kill-and-eat-his-neighbors





  From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:10 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?



  At some point, humans are going to have to accept the fact the mother nature 
will always win. Its not PC, but fact of the matter is we keep people alive 
that otherwise wouldnt have been in the gene pool, and then they breed. 
Eugenics in its basic form is correct. We dont simply have more diabetics 
because we eat like garbage, we have more diabetics because diabetics dont die 
like mother nature intended and then they breed and then eat like garbage. 

  It could be that this virus kills those with comorbidity by design, whether 
by natures selection or by some scientists hand, at this point it doesnt really 
matter, its like buying a toilet after you already pooped on the floor.  



  also, I have a sore throat, I had a good run guys, thanks for all the good 
times



  On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard  wrote:

It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have been 
in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous years (yes, I 
know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article, but I'm too lazy to 
read it all and see how much detail they go into). We can argue all day about 
whether somebody that died of a heart attack died because they had covid19 or 
whether they just had an unrelated heart attack and just happened to have a 
mild case of covid, and whether they should be counted, but in the end, it 
doesn't really matter. If say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in 
April for the past 5 years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty 
safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 
people actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, 
and it just happened to be covid that finished them off instead, or if 500 got 
so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were 
never infected.



I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many 
people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a few 
months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths there 
were.



On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs 
because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But if you read 
the article, they go out of their way to point out possible errors in the data, 
as well as other influences like overloaded healthcare system led to people 
dying of other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and violence.  And 
the data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper didn’t make them up to 
suit a political agenda or bias.



  
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html



  In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted 
because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and crematories 
are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis, you can’t 
possibly claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled as Covid 
related to suit an agenda.  Then you have all the prison and nursing home 
deaths.  OK, sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a hoax.





  From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
  Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?



  The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or 
corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the numbers. 
There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria. That is true for 
the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For example, the numbers 
coming from China (and several other countries) are by design government based. 
But to brush them all off as "government or corporations" is being naive at 
least.

  I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe 
a high percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of otherwise 
healthy pe

Re: [AFMUG] Elevation question

[Lewis Bergman]

WTF. Ignorance was bliss. Thanls for screwing that up for me Chuck. Now I
have to actually think about what to use again. I default back to Google
Earth.

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:12 PM  wrote:

> I have a pretty good GPS receiver.  Trimble R8 with a Yuma data
> collector.  Normally we use it only for lats and longs.
> It is corrected in real time with a cellular data modem and a RTK/VRS
> ground station network.
>
> Yesterday we did a shot from a hill that did not exist when shuttle radar
> data was taken.  It was way off in elevation.
> So we took a shot from our parking lot and compared it with what we think
> we know to be the altitude as well as our cell phones and google earth.
>
> Turns out the R8 has an ellipsoid height as well as another height
> associated with the northing and easting values.
> The second one seems to be more in line with what I was expecting.
> The local dealer sent me a drawing showing this.  (attached)
>
> So now I am super confused.  Not sure what number to use when working with
> Radio Mobile.  Do I add the geoid height to the ellipsoid height?
>
> Was hoping Brian Webster may know or others may know.  Googling google
> earth elevation talks about different versions of geoid.  Not sure if their
> elevations are geoid elevations or not.
>
> So, rather than dig into it any more I am taking the lazy approach and
> posting the question here.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Elevation question

[chuck]

I think shuttle data and GE elevations are referenced to a geoid.  Not sure if 
the both use the same geoid.  I just want to know which number to use from my 
machine.  Or if I have to do math and use them both to get an elevation that 
will agree with the shuttle elevations in RM...

I agree, Ignorance was bliss...

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:15 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevation question

WTF. Ignorance was bliss. Thanls for screwing that up for me Chuck. Now I have 
to actually think about what to use again. I default back to Google Earth.

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:12 PM  wrote:

  I have a pretty good GPS receiver.  Trimble R8 with a Yuma data collector.  
Normally we use it only for lats and longs.
  It is corrected in real time with a cellular data modem and a RTK/VRS ground 
station network.

  Yesterday we did a shot from a hill that did not exist when shuttle radar 
data was taken.  It was way off in elevation.  
  So we took a shot from our parking lot and compared it with what we think we 
know to be the altitude as well as our cell phones and google earth.

  Turns out the R8 has an ellipsoid height as well as another height associated 
with the northing and easting values.  
  The second one seems to be more in line with what I was expecting.  
  The local dealer sent me a drawing showing this.  (attached) 

  So now I am super confused.  Not sure what number to use when working with 
Radio Mobile.  Do I add the geoid height to the ellipsoid height?

  Was hoping Brian Webster may know or others may know.  Googling google earth 
elevation talks about different versions of geoid.  Not sure if their 
elevations are geoid elevations or not.  

  So, rather than dig into it any more I am taking the lazy approach and 
posting the question here.  
  -- 
  AF mailing list
  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com



-- 

Lewis Bergman 
325-439-0533 Cell



-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] CBRS PAL auction

[Roland Houin]

You get your money back after the auction if you didn’t win.

 

roland

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:02 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] CBRS PAL auction

 

I havent found any company that even offers guidance service on this. its 
confusing

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:55 PM Adam Moffett mailto:dmmoff...@gmail.com> > wrote:

So if I'm understanding correctly, there's an up front payment to participate 
in the auction.  That's $0.01 per Mhz/POP.  The licenses are for a County.  So 
if my county has 190,000 people and I want 20Mhz, then I pony up $38,000 for 
the privilege of participating in the auction.  And then if I get outbid by 
AT&T or Google then I've spent $38,000 and have nothing to show for it.  

Did I get that right?

 

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com  
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Adam Moffett]

On 5/5/2020 1:41 PM, Steven Kenney wrote:
Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we 
can agree upon.


1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.

Fact.

2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu

Fact.
3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and 
predictions are all off)

Who's everyone?
4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics 
than countries that did.
I don't know.  I would say countries with a systematic approach to 
testing and isolation of symptomatic people did better.  Our problem (in 
this case) is that disobedience is in our DNA.  Tell me to stay home and 
my first impulse is to leave just to prove that you can't friggin tell 
me what to do.  I'd say it's part of our national strength in most 
cases, but in a pandemic it only hurts us.

5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!


Clearly not a fact everyone agrees on.  See protests in Chicago, etc.




These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute 
certainty these things are correct.


1) The virus originated from China

.I thought that was pretty well settled.

2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
A theory with no basis other than the circumstantial observation that 
there is a virology lab in the same province as the outbreak. I'll bet 
there are several virology labs in New York State.  I'd say that's not 
evidence that the virus originated from one.

3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.

Another theory based on circumstantial observations.
4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old, 
young, white, black, asian etc)
Saying it may or may not do a certain thing is absolutely a fact. 
Coronavirus may or may not wash my dishes for me.  This is absolutely 
true, but it's not a meaningful statement.
5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100% 
accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over 
reporting.


100% accurate is not possible, nor is it necessary for any practical 
purpose.  We have a pretty good idea what the potential inaccuracies are 
and we know pretty well how to adjust for them.






--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)


*From: *"Mathew Howard" 
*To: *"af" 
*Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have 
been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous 
years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT 
article, but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they 
go into). We can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a 
heart attack died because they had covid19 or whether they just had an 
unrelated heart attack and just happened to have a mild case of covid, 
and whether they should be counted, but in the end, it doesn't really 
matter. If say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in April 
for the past 5 years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty 
safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter 
if 6,000 people actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died 
of flu anyway, and it just happened to be covid that finished them off 
instead, or if 500 got so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they 
jumped off a bridge and were never infected.
I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how 
many people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), 
but in a few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many 
excess deaths there were.


On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these
graphs because the source is NYT which they will perceive as
biased. But if you read the article, they go out of their way to
point out possible errors in the data, as well as other influences
like overloaded healthcare system led to people dying of other
causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and violence.  And the
data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper didn’t make
them up to suit a political agenda or bias.


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were
undercounted because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the
morgues and crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies
in refrigerated semis, you can’t possibly claim these are just the
normal deaths being mislabeled as Covid related to suit an
agenda.  Then you have all the prison and nursing home deaths. OK,
sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a hoax.

*From:* AF mailto:af-bo

Re: [AFMUG] CBRS PAL auction

[Adam Moffett]

I wonder why they called it a "payment" rather than a "deposit".

On 5/5/2020 2:23 PM, Roland Houin wrote:


You get your money back after the auction if you didn’t win.

roland

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:02 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] CBRS PAL auction

I havent found any company that even offers guidance service on this. 
its confusing


On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:55 PM Adam Moffett > wrote:


So if I'm understanding correctly, there's an up front payment to
participate in the auction.  That's $0.01 per Mhz/POP.  The
licenses are for a County.  So if my county has 190,000 people and
I want 20Mhz, then I pony up $38,000 /for the privilege of
participating in the auction/.  And then if I get outbid by AT&T
or Google then I've spent $38,000 and have nothing to show for it.

Did I get that right?

-- 
AF mailing list

AF@af.afmug.com 
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com


-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Robert Andrews]

Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand, 
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon 
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most. 
  Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF 
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate 
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were 
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.


On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can 
agree upon.


1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and 
predictions are all off)
4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than 
countries that did.

5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!

These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute 
certainty these things are correct.


1) The virus originated from China
2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old, 
young, white, black, asian etc)
5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100% 
accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over reporting.


--
Steven Kenney
Network Operations Manager
WaveDirect Telecommunications
http://www.wavedirect.net
(519)737-WAVE (9283)


*From: *"Mathew Howard" 
*To: *"af" 
*Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have 
been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous 
years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article, 
but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). 
We can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack 
died because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated 
heart attack and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether 
they should be counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If 
say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 
years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 
of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people 
actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, 
and it just happened to be covid that finished them off instead, or if 
500 got so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they jumped off a 
bridge and were never infected.
I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many 
people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in 
a few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess 
deaths there were.


On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof > wrote:


Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But
if you read the article, they go out of their way to point out
possible errors in the data, as well as other influences like
overloaded healthcare system led to people dying of other causes,
but also less deaths due to traffic and violence.  And the data as
Bill says is from other sources, the paper didn’t make them up to
suit a political agenda or bias.

__ __


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html

__ __

In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted
because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and
crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated
semis, you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths
being mislabeled as Covid related to suit an agenda.  Then you have
all the prison and nursing home deaths.  OK, sure, elderly people
croak all the time, it’s a hoax.

__ __

__ __

*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

__ __

The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government
sourced or corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are
supplying the numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of
different criteria. That is true for the US cases, but probably not
for other countries. For example, the numbers coming from China (and
several other countries) are by design government based. But to
brush them all off as "government or corporations" is being naive at
least._

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill
argue it

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that
way. Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument
to even get to shooting

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
wrote:

> Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
> Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
> what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
>Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
> are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
> because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
> doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.
>
> On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> > Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> > agree upon.
> >
> > 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> > 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> > 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> > predictions are all off)
> > 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> > countries that did.
> > 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
> >
> > These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> > certainty these things are correct.
> >
> > 1) The virus originated from China
> > 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> > 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> > 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> > young, white, black, asian etc)
> > 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100%
> > accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over
> reporting.
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect Telecommunications
> > http://www.wavedirect.net
> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)
> >
> > 
> > *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
> > *To: *"af" 
> > *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
> >
> > It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
> > been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous
> > years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article,
> > but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into).
> > We can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack
> > died because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated
> > heart attack and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether
> > they should be counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If
> > say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5
> > years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000
> > of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people
> > actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway,
> > and it just happened to be covid that finished them off instead, or if
> > 500 got so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they jumped off a
> > bridge and were never infected.
> > I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many
> > people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in
> > a few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess
> > deaths there were.
> >
> > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof  > > wrote:
> >
> > Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
> > because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But
> > if you read the article, they go out of their way to point out
> > possible errors in the data, as well as other influences like
> > overloaded healthcare system led to people dying of other causes,
> > but also less deaths due to traffic and violence.  And the data as
> > Bill says is from other sources, the paper didn’t make them up to
> > suit a political agenda or bias.
> >
> > __ __
> >
> >
> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
> >
> > __ __
> >
> > In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted
> > because the system was overwhelmed.  Even in NYC, the morgues and
> > crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated
> > semis, you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths
> > being mislabeled as Covid related to suit an agenda.  Then you have
> > all the prison and nursing home deaths.  OK, sure, elderly people
> > c

Re: [AFMUG] Elevation question

[Brian Webster]

In the middle of some stuff at the moment, don’t know the answer off the top of 
my head so let me look it up and consult with my brother than land surveyor.

 

Thank you,

Brian Webster

www.wirelessmapping.com

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:20 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevation question

 

I think shuttle data and GE elevations are referenced to a geoid.  Not sure if 
the both use the same geoid.  I just want to know which number to use from my 
machine.  Or if I have to do math and use them both to get an elevation that 
will agree with the shuttle elevations in RM...

 

I agree, Ignorance was bliss...

 

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:15 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Elevation question

 

WTF. Ignorance was bliss. Thanls for screwing that up for me Chuck. Now I have 
to actually think about what to use again. I default back to Google Earth.

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:12 PM  wrote:

I have a pretty good GPS receiver.  Trimble R8 with a Yuma data collector.  
Normally we use it only for lats and longs.

It is corrected in real time with a cellular data modem and a RTK/VRS ground 
station network.

 

Yesterday we did a shot from a hill that did not exist when shuttle radar data 
was taken.  It was way off in elevation.  

So we took a shot from our parking lot and compared it with what we think we 
know to be the altitude as well as our cell phones and google earth.

 

Turns out the R8 has an ellipsoid height as well as another height associated 
with the northing and easting values.  

The second one seems to be more in line with what I was expecting.  

The local dealer sent me a drawing showing this.  (attached) 

 

So now I am super confused.  Not sure what number to use when working with 
Radio Mobile.  Do I add the geoid height to the ellipsoid height?

 

Was hoping Brian Webster may know or others may know.  Googling google earth 
elevation talks about different versions of geoid.  Not sure if their 
elevations are geoid elevations or not.  

 

So, rather than dig into it any more I am taking the lazy approach and posting 
the question here.  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

 

 

-- 

Lewis Bergman 

325-439-0533 Cell

  _  

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[James Howard]

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> agree upon.
>
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> predictions are all off)
> 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> countries that did.
> 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
>
> These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> certainty these things are correct.
>
> 1) The virus originated from China
> 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> young, white, black, asian etc)
> 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100%
> accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over reporting.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> 
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>>
> *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
> It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
> been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous
> years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article,
> but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into).
> We can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack
> died because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated
> heart attack and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether
> they should be counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If
> say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5
> years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000
> of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people
> actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway,
> and it just happened to be covid that finished them off instead, or if
> 500 got so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they jumped off a
> bridge and were never infected.
> I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many
> people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in
> a few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess
> deaths there were.
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof 
> mailto:af...@kwisp.com>
> >> wrote:
>
> Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs
> because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased.  But
> if you read the article, they go out of their way to point out
> pos

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[chuck]

Need to see if they will float first.

From: James Howard 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

 

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

 

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”? 

 

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

 

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

 

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

 

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews  wrote:

  Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand, 
  Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon 
  what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most. 
 Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF 
  are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate 
  because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were 
  doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

  On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
  > Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can 
  > agree upon.
  > 
  > 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
  > 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
  > 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and 
  > predictions are all off)
  > 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than 
  > countries that did.
  > 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
  > 
  > These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute 
  > certainty these things are correct.
  > 
  > 1) The virus originated from China
  > 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
  > 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
  > 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old, 
  > young, white, black, asian etc)
  > 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100% 
  > accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over reporting.
  > 
  > -- 
  > Steven Kenney
  > Network Operations Manager
  > WaveDirect Telecommunications
  > http://www.wavedirect.net
  > (519)737-WAVE (9283)
  > 
  > 
  > *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
  > *To: *"af" 
  > *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
  > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  > 
  > It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have 
  > been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous 
  > years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article, 
  > but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). 
  > We can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack 
  > died because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated 
  > heart attack and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether 
  > they should be counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If 
  > say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 
  > years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 
  > of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people 
  > actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, 
  > and it just happened to be covid that finished them off instead, or if 
  > 500 got so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they jumped off a 
  > bridge and were never infected.
  > I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many 
  > people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in 
  > a few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess 
  > deaths there were.
  > 
  > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof  > wr

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

contagious also has to be defined as with or without vaccine/treatment

Id say flu is the same or more contagious on its own, but we globally have
a high level of vaccination and effective treatment, but looking at the
virus itself is a whole other ballgame

but yeah, fuel is bad, and fire we have environmental impact studies that
will need to be done. walmart carries a non petroleum based charcoal
starter, it smells like cheap tequila. I think its cheap tequila. If we use
that, but on an alcoholic, we run the risk of them falling off the wagon,
and thats some liability we will need to make sure we address, can you
imagine trying to top off the planet and deal with a class action suit by a
lot of burning drunks, it would be a nightmare

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 3:18 PM James Howard  wrote:

> Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what
> they agree about.
>
>
>
> I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious
> and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t
> know what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the
> debates about what is counted).
>
>
>
> One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about
> 300 times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to
> cases is lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?
>
>
>
> I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be
> burned at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of
> fuel to use and how to ignite it…….
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.
>
>
>
> you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up,
> ill argue it
>
>
>
> settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science
>
>
>
> i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the
> disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that
> way. Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument
> to even get to shooting
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
> Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
> what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
>Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
> are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
> because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
> doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.
>
> On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> > Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> > agree upon.
> >
> > 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> > 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> > 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> > predictions are all off)
> > 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> > countries that did.
> > 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
> >
> > These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> > certainty these things are correct.
> >
> > 1) The virus originated from China
> > 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> > 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> > 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> > young, white, black, asian etc)
> > 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100%
> > accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over
> reporting.
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect Telecommunications
> > http://www.wavedirect.net
> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)
> >
> > 
> > *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
> > *To: *"af" 
> > *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
> >
> > It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
> > been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous
> > years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article,
> > but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into).
> > We can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack
> > died because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated
> > heart attack and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether
> > they should be counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If
> > say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5
> > years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,00

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Ken Hohhof]

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the original 
Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its less 
aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws 
cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

 

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) is 
starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

 

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Need to see if they will float first.

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

 

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

 

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”? 

 

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

 

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

 

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

 

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand, 
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon 
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most. 
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF 
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate 
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were 
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can 
> agree upon.
> 
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and 
> predictions are all off)
> 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than 
> countries that did.
> 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
> 
> These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute 
> certainty these things are correct.
> 
> 1) The virus originated from China
> 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old, 
> young, white, black, asian etc)
> 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100% 
> accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over reporting.
> 
> -- 
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
> 
> 
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com> >
> *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
> 
> It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have 
> been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous 
> years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article, 
> but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). 
> We can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart a

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

rotflmao
all depends on which news items. CNN I think it was that was touting the
new "mutation" being less aggressive. lol "news".

The guard that got shot was not a covid issue, that lady was going to have
her daddy kill someone at some point anyway.

Im just sad we have to have guards at family dollars in the first place.
life was like that long before covid.

Also, what size roaster do you wear?

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 3:46 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the
> original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed
> out its less aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That
> certainly throws cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was
> starting to build.
>
>
>
> Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before
> it) is starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats
> than the dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we
> may all (not just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.
> I mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each
> other and shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and
> eating our neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)
>
>
>
> https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> Need to see if they will float first.
>
>
>
> *From:* James Howard
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what
> they agree about.
>
>
>
> I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious
> and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t
> know what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the
> debates about what is counted).
>
>
>
> One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about
> 300 times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to
> cases is lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?
>
>
>
> I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be
> burned at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of
> fuel to use and how to ignite it…….
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.
>
>
>
> you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up,
> ill argue it
>
>
>
> settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science
>
>
>
> i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the
> disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that
> way. Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument
> to even get to shooting
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
> Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
> what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
>Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
> are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
> because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
> doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.
>
> On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> > Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> > agree upon.
> >
> > 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> > 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> > 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> > predictions are all off)
> > 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> > countries that did.
> > 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
> >
> > These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> > certainty these things are correct.
> >
> > 1) The virus originated from China
> > 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> > 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> > 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> > young, white, black, asian etc)
> > 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100%
> > accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over
> reporting.
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect Telecommunications
> > http://www.wavedirect.net
> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)
> >
> > --

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Mathew Howard]

To be fair, Steve was already talking about converting his neighbors into
drinking water 2 months ago... we're way ahead of Alex Jones here...

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 3:46 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the
> original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed
> out its less aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That
> certainly throws cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was
> starting to build.
>
>
>
> Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before
> it) is starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats
> than the dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we
> may all (not just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.
> I mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each
> other and shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and
> eating our neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)
>
>
>
> https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> Need to see if they will float first.
>
>
>
> *From:* James Howard
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what
> they agree about.
>
>
>
> I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious
> and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t
> know what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the
> debates about what is counted).
>
>
>
> One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about
> 300 times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to
> cases is lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?
>
>
>
> I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be
> burned at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of
> fuel to use and how to ignite it…….
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.
>
>
>
> you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up,
> ill argue it
>
>
>
> settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science
>
>
>
> i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the
> disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that
> way. Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument
> to even get to shooting
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
> Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
> what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
>Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
> are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
> because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
> doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.
>
> On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> > Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> > agree upon.
> >
> > 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> > 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> > 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> > predictions are all off)
> > 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> > countries that did.
> > 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
> >
> > These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> > certainty these things are correct.
> >
> > 1) The virus originated from China
> > 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> > 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> > 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> > young, white, black, asian etc)
> > 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100%
> > accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over
> reporting.
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect Telecommunications
> > http://www.wavedirect.net
> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)
> >
> > 
> > *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
> > *To: *"af" 
> > *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
> >
> > It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Mathew Howard]

I imagine the definition of "more deadly" would mean that more people
die... so technically, if it infects 300 times as many people as the flu,
it would only need to kill a fraction of the infected people to be more
deadly.

Aside from reasons already mentioned for it being more contagious, don't
most people generally already have some level of immunity to the flu,
thanks to having been infected with various strains throughout our lives? I
imagine there will be a similar effect with this, making it less contagious
as time goes on.

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 3:18 PM James Howard  wrote:

> Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what
> they agree about.
>
>
>
> I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious
> and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t
> know what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the
> debates about what is counted).
>
>
>
> One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about
> 300 times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to
> cases is lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?
>
>
>
> I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be
> burned at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of
> fuel to use and how to ignite it…….
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.
>
>
>
> you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up,
> ill argue it
>
>
>
> settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science
>
>
>
> i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the
> disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that
> way. Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument
> to even get to shooting
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
> Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
> what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
>Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
> are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
> because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
> doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.
>
> On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> > Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> > agree upon.
> >
> > 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> > 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> > 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> > predictions are all off)
> > 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> > countries that did.
> > 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
> >
> > These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> > certainty these things are correct.
> >
> > 1) The virus originated from China
> > 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> > 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> > 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> > young, white, black, asian etc)
> > 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100%
> > accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over
> reporting.
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect Telecommunications
> > http://www.wavedirect.net
> > (519)737-WAVE (9283)
> >
> > 
> > *From: *"Mathew Howard" 
> > *To: *"af" 
> > *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
> > *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
> >
> > It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have
> > been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous
> > years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article,
> > but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into).
> > We can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack
> > died because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated
> > heart attack and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether
> > they should be counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If
> > say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5
> > years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000
> > of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people
> > actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway,
> > and it just happened to be covid that finished them off in

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Mike Hammett]

For #4, at least in Italy and the UK, age had a big factor in death. 


https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/
 







- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Steven Kenney"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:41:04 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 



Can summarize this pretty easily. These are facts that probably we can agree 
upon. 


1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome. 
2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu 
3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and 
predictions are all off) 
4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than 
countries that did. 
5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe! 


These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute certainty these 
things are correct. 


1) The virus originated from China 
2) It originated from a lab studying the virus. 
3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally. 
4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old, young, 
white, black, asian etc) 
5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100% accurate. 
There are cases all over of under reporting and over reporting. 


-- 
Steven Kenney 
Network Operations Manager 
WaveDirect Telecommunications 
http://www.wavedirect.net 
(519)737-WAVE (9283) 

- Original Message -

From: "Mathew Howard"  
To: "af"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 




It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have been in 
excess of what the average was for the same period in previous years (yes, I 
know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article, but I'm too lazy to 
read it all and see how much detail they go into). We can argue all day about 
whether somebody that died of a heart attack died because they had covid19 or 
whether they just had an unrelated heart attack and just happened to have a 
mild case of covid, and whether they should be counted, but in the end, it 
doesn't really matter. If say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in 
April for the past 5 years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty 
safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 
people actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, 
and it just happened to be covid that finished them off instead, or if 500 got 
so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were 
never infected. 

I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many people 
directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a few months 
we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths there were. 


On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: 





Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs because the 
source is NYT which they will perceive as biased. But if you read the article, 
they go out of their way to point out possible errors in the data, as well as 
other influences like overloaded healthcare system led to people dying of other 
causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and violence. And the data as Bill 
says is from other sources, the paper didn’t make them up to suit a political 
agenda or bias. 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html
 

In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted because 
the system was overwhelmed. Even in NYC, the morgues and crematories are 
overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis, you can’t possibly 
claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled as Covid related to 
suit an agenda. Then you have all the prison and nursing home deaths. OK, sure, 
elderly people croak all the time, it’s a hoax. 




From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? 

The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or 
corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the numbers. 
There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria. That is true for 
the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For example, the numbers 
coming from China (and several other countries) are by design government based. 
But to brush them all off as "government or corporations" is being naive at 
least. 
I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a high 
percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of otherwise 
healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some point, we will 
figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor that we just do not 
understand yet. 
I (

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[James Howard]

Since there haven’t been any new baby dinosaurs born for a really long time it 
seems that dinosaurs would have to be really old……   Not trying to point 
fingers but aren’t you really old Ken?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the original 
Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its less 
aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws 
cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) is 
starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Need to see if they will float first.

From: James Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> agree upon.
>
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> predictions are all off)
> 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> countries that did.
> 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
>
> These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> certainty these things are correct.
>
> 1) The virus originated from China
> 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> young, white, black, asian etc)
> 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100%
> accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over reporting.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> 
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>>
> *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is th

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Steve Jones]

I knew something wasnt right about ken. I bet he watches Jurassic park and
roots for the  dinosaurs too

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:20 PM James Howard  wrote:

> Since there haven’t been any new baby dinosaurs born for a really long
> time it seems that dinosaurs would have to be really old……   Not trying to
> point fingers but aren’t you really old Ken?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:46 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the
> original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed
> out its less aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That
> certainly throws cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was
> starting to build.
>
>
>
> Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before
> it) is starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats
> than the dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we
> may all (not just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.
> I mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each
> other and shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and
> eating our neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)
>
>
>
> https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> Need to see if they will float first.
>
>
>
> *From:* James Howard
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what
> they agree about.
>
>
>
> I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious
> and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t
> know what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the
> debates about what is counted).
>
>
>
> One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about
> 300 times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to
> cases is lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?
>
>
>
> I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be
> burned at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of
> fuel to use and how to ignite it…….
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.
>
>
>
> you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up,
> ill argue it
>
>
>
> settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science
>
>
>
> i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the
> disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that
> way. Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument
> to even get to shooting
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
> Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
> what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
>Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
> are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
> because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
> doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.
>
> On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> > Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> > agree upon.
> >
> > 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> > 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> > 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> > predictions are all off)
> > 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> > countries that did.
> > 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
> >
> > These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> > certainty these things are correct.
> >
> > 1) The virus originated from China
> > 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> > 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> > 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> > young, white, black, asian etc)
> > 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100%
> > accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over
> reporting.
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Bill Prince]

  
  
The dinosaurs didn't die from an ice age. Most of them were
  cooked at an estimated 600 degrees F.

  https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/dinopocalypse-redux

bp



On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
I
assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers
saying the original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious
strain that has pushed out its less aggressive predecessor
in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws cold
water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to
build.
 
Also,
the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change
before it) is starting to make me think we are no better at
handling new threats than the dinosaurs were when an
asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the
dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months
and we’re turning on each other and shooting guards at
Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)
 
https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
 
 

  
From: AF
 On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

 

  

  Need
  to see if they will float first.


  

   


  
From:
James Howard 
  
  
Sent:
Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
  
  
To:
'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  
  
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

  
  
 
  


  Seems
  that what was proved by this is that nobody can even
  agree on what they agree about.
   
  I
  certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly
  WAY more contagious and easily spread than “the flu”
  but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know what
  the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due
  to all the debates about what is counted).
   
  One
  of the articles posted along the way here stated that
  this is about 300 times more contagious than “the flu”
  but the actual rate of death to cases is lower.  What
  is the definition of being “more deadly”? 
   
  I
  disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we
  should all be burned at the stake.  This of course
  leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use and
  how to ignite it…….
   
   
  

  From:
  AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

  
   
  
so 2-4
off the firs list are off the first list.

   


  you
  could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if
  nobody steps up, ill argue it


   


  settled
  science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of
  science


   


  i think
  we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing
  to do with the disease, we should just all be
  shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way.
  Would never work though, we would never get past
  the caliber argument to even g

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Mathew Howard]

Are you saying you *don't* root for the dinosaurs in Jurassic park? 🤔

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:32 PM Steve Jones 
wrote:

> I knew something wasnt right about ken. I bet he watches Jurassic park and
> roots for the  dinosaurs too
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:20 PM James Howard  wrote:
>
>> Since there haven’t been any new baby dinosaurs born for a really long
>> time it seems that dinosaurs would have to be really old……   Not trying to
>> point fingers but aren’t you really old Ken?
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:46 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>>
>>
>> I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the
>> original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed
>> out its less aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That
>> certainly throws cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was
>> starting to build.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before
>> it) is starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats
>> than the dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we
>> may all (not just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.
>> I mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each
>> other and shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and
>> eating our neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)
>>
>>
>>
>> https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>>
>>
>> Need to see if they will float first.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* James Howard
>>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
>>
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>>
>>
>> Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what
>> they agree about.
>>
>>
>>
>> I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more
>> contagious and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full
>> year we won’t know what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then
>> due to all the debates about what is counted).
>>
>>
>>
>> One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about
>> 300 times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to
>> cases is lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?
>>
>>
>>
>> I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be
>> burned at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of
>> fuel to use and how to ignite it…….
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
>> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>>
>>
>>
>> so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.
>>
>>
>>
>> you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up,
>> ill argue it
>>
>>
>>
>> settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science
>>
>>
>>
>> i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the
>> disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that
>> way. Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument
>> to even get to shooting
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
>> wrote:
>>
>> Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
>> Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
>> what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
>>Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
>> are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
>> because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
>> doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.
>>
>> On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
>> > Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
>> > agree upon.
>> >
>> > 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
>> > 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
>> > 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
>> > predictions are all off)
>> > 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
>> > countries that did.
>> > 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
>> >
>> > These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
>> > certainty these things are correct.
>> >
>> > 1) The virus originated from China
>> > 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
>> > 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
>> > 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be spe

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[James Howard]

Hopefully they had lots of BBQ sauce

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:35 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?


The dinosaurs didn't die from an ice age. Most of them were cooked at an 
estimated 600 degrees F.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/dinopocalypse-redux

bp




On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the original 
Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its less 
aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws 
cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) is 
starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05


From: AF  On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Need to see if they will float first.

From: James Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> agree upon.
>
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> predictions are all off)
> 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> countries that did.
> 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
>
> These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> certainty these things are correct.
>
> 1) The virus originated from China
> 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> young, white, black, asian etc)
> 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100%
> accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over reporting.
>
> --
> Steven Kenney
> Network Operations Manager
> WaveDirect Telecommunications
> http://www.wavedirect.net
> (519)737-WAVE (9283)
>
> 
> *From: *"Mathew Howard" mailto:mhoward...@gmail.com>>
> *To: *"af" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, May 5, 20

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[James Howard]

Does anyone not root against Jeff Goldblum?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Are you saying you *don't* root for the dinosaurs in Jurassic park? 🤔

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:32 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I knew something wasnt right about ken. I bet he watches Jurassic park and 
roots for the  dinosaurs too

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:20 PM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
Since there haven’t been any new baby dinosaurs born for a really long time it 
seems that dinosaurs would have to be really old……   Not trying to point 
fingers but aren’t you really old Ken?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the original 
Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its less 
aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws 
cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) is 
starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Need to see if they will float first.

From: James Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> agree upon.
>
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> predictions are all off)
> 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> countries that did.
> 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
>
> These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> certainty these things are correct.
>
> 1) The virus originated from China
> 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> 4) The

Re: [AFMUG] Elevation question

[Jaime Solorza]

I downloaded WiFi Fresnal Zone App to my Moto phone and it has been pretty
accurateit uses Google Maps..
They have a pro version as well.

On Tue, May 5, 2020, 12:12 PM  wrote:

> I have a pretty good GPS receiver.  Trimble R8 with a Yuma data
> collector.  Normally we use it only for lats and longs.
> It is corrected in real time with a cellular data modem and a RTK/VRS
> ground station network.
>
> Yesterday we did a shot from a hill that did not exist when shuttle radar
> data was taken.  It was way off in elevation.
> So we took a shot from our parking lot and compared it with what we think
> we know to be the altitude as well as our cell phones and google earth.
>
> Turns out the R8 has an ellipsoid height as well as another height
> associated with the northing and easting values.
> The second one seems to be more in line with what I was expecting.
> The local dealer sent me a drawing showing this.  (attached)
>
> So now I am super confused.  Not sure what number to use when working with
> Radio Mobile.  Do I add the geoid height to the ellipsoid height?
>
> Was hoping Brian Webster may know or others may know.  Googling google
> earth elevation talks about different versions of geoid.  Not sure if their
> elevations are geoid elevations or not.
>
> So, rather than dig into it any more I am taking the lazy approach and
> posting the question here.
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Mathew Howard]

I bet Steve ate 'em all...

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:41 PM James Howard  wrote:

> Hopefully they had lots of BBQ sauce
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:35 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> The dinosaurs didn't die from an ice age. Most of them were cooked at an
> estimated 600 degrees F.
>
> https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/dinopocalypse-redux
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>
> I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the
> original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed
> out its less aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That
> certainly throws cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was
> starting to build.
>
>
>
> Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before
> it) is starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats
> than the dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we
> may all (not just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.
> I mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each
> other and shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and
> eating our neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)
>
>
>
> https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF   *On Behalf
> Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
> 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> Need to see if they will float first.
>
>
>
> *From:* James Howard
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what
> they agree about.
>
>
>
> I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious
> and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t
> know what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the
> debates about what is counted).
>
>
>
> One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about
> 300 times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to
> cases is lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?
>
>
>
> I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be
> burned at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of
> fuel to use and how to ignite it…….
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com ] *On
> Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
>
>
>
> so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.
>
>
>
> you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up,
> ill argue it
>
>
>
> settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science
>
>
>
> i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the
> disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that
> way. Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument
> to even get to shooting
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
> wrote:
>
> Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
> Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
> what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
>Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
> are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
> because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
> doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.
>
> On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> > Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> > agree upon.
> >
> > 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> > 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> > 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> > predictions are all off)
> > 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> > countries that did.
> > 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
> >
> > These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> > certainty these things are correct.
> >
> > 1) The virus originated from China
> > 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> > 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> > 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> > young, white, black, asian etc)
> > 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100%
> > accurate.  There are cases all over of under reporting and over
> reporting.
> >
> > --
> > Steven Kenney
> > Network Operations Manager
> > WaveDirect Telec

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[James Howard]

Well, he hopefully got a chance at all the fat that others threw aside anyway.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

I bet Steve ate 'em all...

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:41 PM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
Hopefully they had lots of BBQ sauce

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On 
Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:35 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?


The dinosaurs didn't die from an ice age. Most of them were cooked at an 
estimated 600 degrees F.

https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/dinopocalypse-redux

bp




On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the original 
Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its less 
aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws 
cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) is 
starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05


From: AF  On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Need to see if they will float first.

From: James Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews 
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:
Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand,
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most.
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can
> agree upon.
>
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and
> predictions are all off)
> 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than
> countries that did.
> 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
>
> These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> certainty these things are correct.
>
> 1) The virus originated from China
> 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old,
> young, white, black, asian etc)
> 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infec

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Ken Hohhof]

Isn’t he in some annoying TV commercial now?

 

And I think there was a movie where he turned into a fly, and he impregnated 
his girlfriend who gave birth to a maggot?  Or did I dream that?

 

I also think he was one of the aliens in Earth Girls Are Easy.  Which if you’ve 
never seen it, would be great quarantine viewing, hopefully it’s available for 
streaming.  Jim Carrey was another of the aliens, I forget who was the third.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:43 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Does anyone not root against Jeff Goldblum?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Are you saying you *don't* root for the dinosaurs in Jurassic park? 🤔

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:32 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I knew something wasnt right about ken. I bet he watches Jurassic park and 
roots for the  dinosaurs too

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:20 PM James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

Since there haven’t been any new baby dinosaurs born for a really long time it 
seems that dinosaurs would have to be really old……   Not trying to point 
fingers but aren’t you really old Ken?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com  ] On 
Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the original 
Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its less 
aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws 
cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

 

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) is 
starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

 

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Need to see if they will float first.

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

 

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

 

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”? 

 

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

 

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

 

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

 

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand, 
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon 
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most. 
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF 
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate 
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were 
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can su

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Ken Hohhof]

Nope, this one:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-05/mutant-coronavirus-has-emerged-more-contagious-than-original

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:08 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

rotflmao

all depends on which news items. CNN I think it was that was touting the new 
"mutation" being less aggressive. lol "news".

 

The guard that got shot was not a covid issue, that lady was going to have her 
daddy kill someone at some point anyway.

 

Im just sad we have to have guards at family dollars in the first place. life 
was like that long before covid.

 

Also, what size roaster do you wear?

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 3:46 PM Ken Hohhof mailto:af...@kwisp.com> > wrote:

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the original 
Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its less 
aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws 
cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

 

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) is 
starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

 

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Need to see if they will float first.

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

 

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

 

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”? 

 

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

 

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

 

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

 

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand, 
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon 
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most. 
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF 
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate 
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were 
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can 
> agree upon.
> 
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and 
> predictions are all off)
> 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than 
> countries that did.
> 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
> 
> These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute 
> certainty these things are correct.
> 
> 1) The virus originated from China
> 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old, 
> young, white, black, asian etc)
> 5) The people reporting statistics for death

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[chuck]

10 Speed and Brown Shoe

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:19 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Isn’t he in some annoying TV commercial now?

 

And I think there was a movie where he turned into a fly, and he impregnated 
his girlfriend who gave birth to a maggot?  Or did I dream that?

 

I also think he was one of the aliens in Earth Girls Are Easy.  Which if you’ve 
never seen it, would be great quarantine viewing, hopefully it’s available for 
streaming.  Jim Carrey was another of the aliens, I forget who was the third.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:43 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Does anyone not root against Jeff Goldblum?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Are you saying you *don't* root for the dinosaurs in Jurassic park? 🤔

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:32 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

  I knew something wasnt right about ken. I bet he watches Jurassic park and 
roots for the  dinosaurs too

   

  On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:20 PM James Howard  wrote:

Since there haven’t been any new baby dinosaurs born for a really long time 
it seems that dinosaurs would have to be really old……   Not trying to point 
fingers but aren’t you really old Ken?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the 
original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out 
its less aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That 
certainly throws cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting 
to build.

 

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) 
is starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

 

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Need to see if they will float first.

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what 
they agree about.

 

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious 
and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

 

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”? 

 

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned 
at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

 

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

 

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

 

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews  
wrote:

  Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand, 
  Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon 
  what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most. 
 Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF 
  are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate 
  because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Ken Hohhof]

You’ve got admit, casting Nicolas Cage as Joe Exotic in the movie version of 
Tiger King is genius.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:35 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

10 Speed and Brown Shoe

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:19 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Isn’t he in some annoying TV commercial now?

 

And I think there was a movie where he turned into a fly, and he impregnated 
his girlfriend who gave birth to a maggot?  Or did I dream that?

 

I also think he was one of the aliens in Earth Girls Are Easy.  Which if you’ve 
never seen it, would be great quarantine viewing, hopefully it’s available for 
streaming.  Jim Carrey was another of the aliens, I forget who was the third.

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of James Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:43 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Does anyone not root against Jeff Goldblum?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Are you saying you *don't* root for the dinosaurs in Jurassic park? 🤔

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:32 PM Steve Jones mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

I knew something wasnt right about ken. I bet he watches Jurassic park and 
roots for the  dinosaurs too

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:20 PM James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net> > wrote:

Since there haven’t been any new baby dinosaurs born for a really long time it 
seems that dinosaurs would have to be really old……   Not trying to point 
fingers but aren’t you really old Ken?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the original 
Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its less 
aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws 
cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

 

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) is 
starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

 

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com> > On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Need to see if they will float first.

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

 

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

 

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”? 

 

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

 

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

 

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

 

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand, 
Australia has 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[chuck]

If he is a method actor he may never come back.

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:40 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

You’ve got admit, casting Nicolas Cage as Joe Exotic in the movie version of 
Tiger King is genius.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:35 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

10 Speed and Brown Shoe

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:19 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Isn’t he in some annoying TV commercial now?

 

And I think there was a movie where he turned into a fly, and he impregnated 
his girlfriend who gave birth to a maggot?  Or did I dream that?

 

I also think he was one of the aliens in Earth Girls Are Easy.  Which if you’ve 
never seen it, would be great quarantine viewing, hopefully it’s available for 
streaming.  Jim Carrey was another of the aliens, I forget who was the third.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of James Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:43 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Does anyone not root against Jeff Goldblum?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Are you saying you *don't* root for the dinosaurs in Jurassic park? 🤔

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:32 PM Steve Jones  wrote:

  I knew something wasnt right about ken. I bet he watches Jurassic park and 
roots for the  dinosaurs too

   

  On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:20 PM James Howard  wrote:

Since there haven’t been any new baby dinosaurs born for a really long time 
it seems that dinosaurs would have to be really old……   Not trying to point 
fingers but aren’t you really old Ken?

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the 
original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out 
its less aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That 
certainly throws cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting 
to build.

 

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) 
is starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

 

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Need to see if they will float first.

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what 
they agree about.

 

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious 
and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

 

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”? 

 

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned 
at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

 

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

 

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

 

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews  
wrote:

  Not sure a

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Remember what I sent out about a month or so ago about all the
  different strains of the virus they've identified? If we get a
  vaccine in a year or so, it will probably end up being only useful
  for a strain of the virus that has died out by then.
I listened to this yesterday (this morning actually, but I
  digress). It is about the best description of R, R0 (R nought),
  and other variations of R. The point being is that I misunderstood
  the concept of "flattening the curve". I had thought that reducing
  the spread would end up infecting the same number of people over a
  longer period of time (so that we don't overwhelm the health
  system). Turns out, that if it's done right, you don't flatten the
  curve, but you crush the curve. I also believe that the widely
  varied infection/death rates comes from a wide variety of factors;
  population density, version of the virus(es) that are "local",
  extent of social distancing, etc. etc. However, getting 330
  million Americans to follow a plan is way, way worse than herding
  cats.

https://www.marketplace.org/shows/make-me-smart-with-kai-and-molly/is-the-simulation-breaking-cruises-are-going-to-set-sail-again/


bp



On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
I
assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers
saying the original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious
strain that has pushed out its less aggressive predecessor
in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws cold
water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to
build.
 
Also,
the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change
before it) is starting to make me think we are no better at
handling new threats than the dinosaurs were when an
asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the
dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months
and we’re turning on each other and shooting guards at
Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)
 
https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
 
 

  
From: AF
 On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

 

  

  Need
  to see if they will float first.


  

   


  
From:
James Howard 
  
  
Sent:
Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
  
  
To:
'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  
  
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

  
  
 
  


  Seems
  that what was proved by this is that nobody can even
  agree on what they agree about.
   
  I
  certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly
  WAY more contagious and easily spread than “the flu”
  but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know what
  the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due
  to all the debates about what is counted).
   
  One
  of the articles posted along the way here stated that
  this is about 300 times more contagious than “the flu”
  but the actual rate of death to cases is lower.  What
  is the definition of being “more deadly”? 
   
  I
  disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we
  should all be burned at the stake.  This of course
  leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use and
  how to ignite it…….
   
   
  

  From:
  AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
   

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Robert Andrews]

One of the Waylen brothers...

On 05/05/2020 03:19 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Isn’t he in some annoying TV commercial now?

And I think there was a movie where he turned into a fly, and he 
impregnated his girlfriend who gave birth to a maggot?  Or did I dream that?


I also think he was one of the aliens in Earth Girls Are Easy.  Which if 
you’ve never seen it, would be great quarantine viewing, hopefully it’s 
available for streaming.  Jim Carrey was another of the aliens, I forget 
who was the third.


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *James Howard
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:43 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Does anyone not root against Jeff Goldblum?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Mathew Howard
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:38 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Are you saying you *don't* root for the dinosaurs in Jurassic park? 🤔

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:32 PM Steve Jones > wrote:


I knew something wasnt right about ken. I bet he watches Jurassic
park and roots for the  dinosaurs too

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:20 PM James Howard mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:

Since there haven’t been any new baby dinosaurs born for a
really long time it seems that dinosaurs would have to be really
old……   Not trying to point fingers but aren’t you really old Ken?

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:46 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers
saying the original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious
strain that has pushed out its less aggressive predecessor in
Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws cold water
on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change
before it) is starting to make me think we are no better at
handling new threats than the dinosaurs were when an asteroid
triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not just the weak
and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez,
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each
other and shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about
gutting and eating our neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna
sausages?)

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05

*From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com

*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Need to see if they will float first.

*From:*James Howard

*Sent:*Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree
on what they agree about.

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more
contagious and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone
a full year we won’t know what the actual % death rate is (if we
even know then due to all the debates about what is counted).

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this
is about 300 times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual
rate of death to cases is lower.  What is the definition of
being “more deadly”?

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should
all be burned at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments
about what kind of fuel to use and how to ignite it…….

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve
Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody
steps up, ill argue it

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do
with the disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less
disagreement that way. Would never work though, we would never
get past the caliber argument to even get to shooting

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews
mailto:i...@avantwireless.com>> wrote:

Not sure about a4

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[James Howard]

Considering some of Nicholas Cage’s roles, the thought of him being a method 
actor is kind of scary.  Some of his performances rank right up there with 
Keanu Reeves IMO though.  I do actually like both of them in certain movies 
(who couldn’t like John Wick?) but I’ve always thought that Keanu wasn’t acting 
in his Bill and Ted roles.  I’ve suspected the same about Nicholas Cage but 
can’t remember the names of those movies.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 6:24 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

If he is a method actor he may never come back.

From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:40 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

You’ve got admit, casting Nicolas Cage as Joe Exotic in the movie version of 
Tiger King is genius.

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:35 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

10 Speed and Brown Shoe

From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:19 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Isn’t he in some annoying TV commercial now?

And I think there was a movie where he turned into a fly, and he impregnated 
his girlfriend who gave birth to a maggot?  Or did I dream that?

I also think he was one of the aliens in Earth Girls Are Easy.  Which if you’ve 
never seen it, would be great quarantine viewing, hopefully it’s available for 
streaming.  Jim Carrey was another of the aliens, I forget who was the third.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
James Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:43 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Does anyone not root against Jeff Goldblum?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Mathew Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 4:38 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Are you saying you *don't* root for the dinosaurs in Jurassic park? 🤔

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:32 PM Steve Jones 
mailto:thatoneguyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I knew something wasnt right about ken. I bet he watches Jurassic park and 
roots for the  dinosaurs too

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 4:20 PM James Howard 
mailto:ja...@litewire.net>> wrote:
Since there haven’t been any new baby dinosaurs born for a really long time it 
seems that dinosaurs would have to be really old……   Not trying to point 
fingers but aren’t you really old Ken?

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:46 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the original 
Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its less 
aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws 
cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) is 
starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Need to see if they will float first.

From: James Howard
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….


From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Here's another good one. Explains pretty well the distinction
  between asymptomatic infection and pre-symptomatic infection. Very
  few (almost none) have made that distinction with the possible
  exception of the Diamond Princess where they had a purpose built
  petri dish in which to study 3000+ guinea pigs (er... test
  subjects). In that particular case, the initial result was 50% of
  the subjects were "asymptomatic", but in the final analysis only
  about 20% were asymptomatic, and the other 30% were
  pre-symptomatic.

  https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/xjhomkl/coronavirus-how-many-silent-spreaders



bp



On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
I
assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers
saying the original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious
strain that has pushed out its less aggressive predecessor
in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws cold
water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to
build.
 
Also,
the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change
before it) is starting to make me think we are no better at
handling new threats than the dinosaurs were when an
asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the
dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months
and we’re turning on each other and shooting guards at
Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)
 
https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
 
 

  
From: AF
 On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

 

  

  Need
  to see if they will float first.


  

   


  
From:
James Howard 
  
  
Sent:
Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
  
  
To:
'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  
  
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

  
  
 
  


  Seems
  that what was proved by this is that nobody can even
  agree on what they agree about.
   
  I
  certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly
  WAY more contagious and easily spread than “the flu”
  but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know what
  the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due
  to all the debates about what is counted).
   
  One
  of the articles posted along the way here stated that
  this is about 300 times more contagious than “the flu”
  but the actual rate of death to cases is lower.  What
  is the definition of being “more deadly”? 
   
  I
  disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we
  should all be burned at the stake.  This of course
  leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use and
  how to ignite it…….
   
   
  

  From:
  AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

  
   
  
so 2-4
off the firs list are off the first list.

   


  you
  could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if
  nobody steps up, ill argue it


   


  settled
  science doesnt exist, thats the exact oppos

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Ken Hohhof]

Success stories:

https://www.vox.com/2020/5/5/21247837/coronavirus-vietnam-slovenia-jordan-iceland-greece

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 6:52 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Remember what I sent out about a month or so ago about all the different 
strains of the virus they've identified? If we get a vaccine in a year or so, 
it will probably end up being only useful for a strain of the virus that has 
died out by then.

I listened to this yesterday (this morning actually, but I digress). It is 
about the best description of R, R0 (R nought), and other variations of R. The 
point being is that I misunderstood the concept of "flattening the curve". I 
had thought that reducing the spread would end up infecting the same number of 
people over a longer period of time (so that we don't overwhelm the health 
system). Turns out, that if it's done right, you don't flatten the curve, but 
you crush the curve. I also believe that the widely varied infection/death 
rates comes from a wide variety of factors; population density, version of the 
virus(es) that are "local", extent of social distancing, etc. etc. However, 
getting 330 million Americans to follow a plan is way, way worse than herding 
cats.

https://www.marketplace.org/shows/make-me-smart-with-kai-and-molly/is-the-simulation-breaking-cruises-are-going-to-set-sail-again/

 

bp

 

On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the original 
Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its less 
aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws 
cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

 

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) is 
starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

 

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05

 

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Need to see if they will float first.

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

 

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

 

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”? 

 

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

 

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

 

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

 

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand, 
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon 
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most. 
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF 
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate 
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were 
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can 
> agree upon.
> 
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely mor

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Robert Andrews]

The carrier TR is a similar petri dish...

On 05/05/2020 05:14 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
Here's another good one. Explains pretty well the distinction between 
asymptomatic infection and pre-symptomatic infection. Very few (almost 
none) have made that distinction with the possible exception of the 
Diamond Princess where they had a purpose built petri dish in which to 
study 3000+ guinea pigs (er... test subjects). In that particular case, 
the initial result was 50% of the subjects were "asymptomatic", but in 
the final analysis only about 20% were asymptomatic, and the other 30% 
were pre-symptomatic.



https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/xjhomkl/coronavirus-how-many-silent-spreaders


bp


On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the 
original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has 
pushed out its less aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east 
coast.  That certainly throws cold water on some of the vaccine 
optimism that was starting to build.


Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change 
before it) is starting to make me think we are no better at handling 
new threats than the dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice 
age.  And that we may all (not just the weak and old among us) go the 
way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, folks, it hasn’t even been 2 
months and we’re turning on each other and shooting guards at Family 
Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our neighbors.  (and their 
stash of Vienna sausages?)


https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05

*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Need to see if they will float first.

*From:*James Howard

*Sent:*Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on 
what they agree about.


I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more 
contagious and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a 
full year we won’t know what the actual % death rate is (if we even 
know then due to all the debates about what is counted).


One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is 
about 300 times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of 
death to cases is lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”?


I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be 
burned at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what 
kind of fuel to use and how to ignite it…….


*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
*Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group >

*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps 
up, ill argue it


settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with 
the disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement 
that way. Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber 
argument to even get to shooting


On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews > wrote:


Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New
Zealand,
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that
depends upon
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the
most.
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will
wonder WTF
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are
accurate
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably
we can
> agree upon.
>
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be.
(statistics and
> predictions are all off)
> 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar
statistics than
> countries that did.
> 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe!
>
> These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute
> certainty these things are correct.
>
> 1) The virus originated from China
> 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus.
> 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally.
> 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific
(old,
> young, white, black, asian etc)
> 5) The people reporting statistics for deat

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[chuck]

We have been under 1 in Utah for some time now.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:51 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

Remember what I sent out about a month or so ago about all the different 
strains of the virus they've identified? If we get a vaccine in a year or so, 
it will probably end up being only useful for a strain of the virus that has 
died out by then.

I listened to this yesterday (this morning actually, but I digress). It is 
about the best description of R, R0 (R nought), and other variations of R. The 
point being is that I misunderstood the concept of "flattening the curve". I 
had thought that reducing the spread would end up infecting the same number of 
people over a longer period of time (so that we don't overwhelm the health 
system). Turns out, that if it's done right, you don't flatten the curve, but 
you crush the curve. I also believe that the widely varied infection/death 
rates comes from a wide variety of factors; population density, version of the 
virus(es) that are "local", extent of social distancing, etc. etc. However, 
getting 330 million Americans to follow a plan is way, way worse than herding 
cats.


https://www.marketplace.org/shows/make-me-smart-with-kai-and-molly/is-the-simulation-breaking-cruises-are-going-to-set-sail-again/



bp


On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

  I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the 
original Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out 
its less aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That 
certainly throws cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting 
to build.

   

  Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) 
is starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

   

  https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05

   

   

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

   

  Need to see if they will float first.

   

  From: James Howard 

  Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM

  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

   

  Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

   

  I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious 
and easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

   

  One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”? 

   

  I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned 
at the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….

   

   

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
  Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

   

  so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

   

  you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

   

  settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

   

  i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

   

  On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews  wrote:

Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand, 
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon 
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most. 
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF 
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate 
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were 
doing more than any other country.   4 deaths.

On 05/05/2020 10:41 AM, Steven Kenney wrote:
> Can summarize this pretty easily.  These are facts that probably we can 
> agree upon.
> 
> 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome.
> 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu
> 3) 

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Bill Prince]

  
  
That proverbial 0.78% persons?

bp



On 5/5/2020 5:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  We have been under 1 in Utah for some time now.  
  

   
  
From: Bill
Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:51 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

 
  
  
Remember what I sent out about a month or so ago about
  all the different strains of the virus they've identified?
  If we get a vaccine in a year or so, it will probably end
  up being only useful for a strain of the virus that has
  died out by then.
I listened to this yesterday (this morning actually, but
  I digress). It is about the best description of R, R0 (R
  nought), and other variations of R. The point being is
  that I misunderstood the concept of "flattening the
  curve". I had thought that reducing the spread would end
  up infecting the same number of people over a longer
  period of time (so that we don't overwhelm the health
  system). Turns out, that if it's done right, you don't
  flatten the curve, but you crush the curve. I also believe
  that the widely varied infection/death rates comes from a
  wide variety of factors; population density, version of
  the virus(es) that are "local", extent of social
  distancing, etc. etc. However, getting 330 million
  Americans to follow a plan is way, way worse than herding
  cats.

https://www.marketplace.org/shows/make-me-smart-with-kai-and-molly/is-the-simulation-breaking-cruises-are-going-to-set-sail-again/
 
bp



On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
I
assume everyone saw the news item today about
researchers saying the original Wuhan virus mutated
to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its
less aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US
east coast.  That certainly throws cold water on
some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to
build.
 
Also,
the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate
change before it) is starting to make me think we
are no better at handling new threats than the
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice
age.  And that we may all (not just the weak and old
among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez,
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re
turning on each other and shooting guards at Family
Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)
 
https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
 
 

  
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

 

  

  Need
  to see if they will float first.


  

   


  
From: James Howard 
  
  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
  
  
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group' 
  
  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

  
  
 
  


  Seems that what was proved by
  this is that nobody can even agree on what
  they agr

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Bill Prince]

  
  
Utah cats are easier to herd than NY cats.

bp



On 5/5/2020 5:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  We have been under 1 in Utah for some time now.  
  

   
  
From: Bill
Prince 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:51 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

 
  
  
Remember what I sent out about a month or so ago about
  all the different strains of the virus they've identified?
  If we get a vaccine in a year or so, it will probably end
  up being only useful for a strain of the virus that has
  died out by then.
I listened to this yesterday (this morning actually, but
  I digress). It is about the best description of R, R0 (R
  nought), and other variations of R. The point being is
  that I misunderstood the concept of "flattening the
  curve". I had thought that reducing the spread would end
  up infecting the same number of people over a longer
  period of time (so that we don't overwhelm the health
  system). Turns out, that if it's done right, you don't
  flatten the curve, but you crush the curve. I also believe
  that the widely varied infection/death rates comes from a
  wide variety of factors; population density, version of
  the virus(es) that are "local", extent of social
  distancing, etc. etc. However, getting 330 million
  Americans to follow a plan is way, way worse than herding
  cats.

https://www.marketplace.org/shows/make-me-smart-with-kai-and-molly/is-the-simulation-breaking-cruises-are-going-to-set-sail-again/
 
bp



On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
I
assume everyone saw the news item today about
researchers saying the original Wuhan virus mutated
to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its
less aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US
east coast.  That certainly throws cold water on
some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to
build.
 
Also,
the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate
change before it) is starting to make me think we
are no better at handling new threats than the
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice
age.  And that we may all (not just the weak and old
among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez,
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re
turning on each other and shooting guards at Family
Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)
 
https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05
 
 

  
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com
On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

 

  

  Need
  to see if they will float first.


  

   


  
From: James Howard 
  
  
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM
  
  
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group' 
  
  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?
  

  
  
 
  


  Seems that what was proved by
  this is that nobody can even agree on what
  

Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

[Ken Hohhof]

Cats are trouble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RG5mOd8Ubsk

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 7:29 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Utah cats are easier to herd than NY cats.

bp

 

On 5/5/2020 5:26 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

We have been under 1 in Utah for some time now.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 5:51 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Remember what I sent out about a month or so ago about all the different 
strains of the virus they've identified? If we get a vaccine in a year or so, 
it will probably end up being only useful for a strain of the virus that has 
died out by then.

I listened to this yesterday (this morning actually, but I digress). It is 
about the best description of R, R0 (R nought), and other variations of R. The 
point being is that I misunderstood the concept of "flattening the curve". I 
had thought that reducing the spread would end up infecting the same number of 
people over a longer period of time (so that we don't overwhelm the health 
system). Turns out, that if it's done right, you don't flatten the curve, but 
you crush the curve. I also believe that the widely varied infection/death 
rates comes from a wide variety of factors; population density, version of the 
virus(es) that are "local", extent of social distancing, etc. etc. However, 
getting 330 million Americans to follow a plan is way, way worse than herding 
cats.

https://www.marketplace.org/shows/make-me-smart-with-kai-and-molly/is-the-simulation-breaking-cruises-are-going-to-set-sail-again/

 

bp

 

On 5/5/2020 1:45 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

I assume everyone saw the news item today about researchers saying the original 
Wuhan virus mutated to a more contagious strain that has pushed out its less 
aggressive predecessor in Europe and the US east coast.  That certainly throws 
cold water on some of the vaccine optimism that was starting to build.

 

Also, the way humans are reacting to this (and to climate change before it) is 
starting to make me think we are no better at handling new threats than the 
dinosaurs were when an asteroid triggered an ice age.  And that we may all (not 
just the weak and old among us) go the way of the dinosaurs.  I mean jeez, 
folks, it hasn’t even been 2 months and we’re turning on each other and 
shooting guards at Family Dollar and talking about gutting and eating our 
neighbors.  (and their stash of Vienna sausages?)

 

https://dilbert.com/strip/1990-07-05

 

 

From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
 
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 3:25 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' mailto:af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Need to see if they will float first.

 

From: James Howard 

Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:17 PM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

Seems that what was proved by this is that nobody can even agree on what they 
agree about.

 

I certainly don’t agree with #2.  It is most certainly WAY more contagious and 
easily spread than “the flu” but until we’ve gone a full year we won’t know 
what the actual % death rate is (if we even know then due to all the debates 
about what is counted).

 

One of the articles posted along the way here stated that this is about 300 
times more contagious than “the flu” but the actual rate of death to cases is 
lower.  What is the definition of being “more deadly”? 

 

I disagree about shooting everyone though.  I think we should all be burned at 
the stake.  This of course leads to arguments about what kind of fuel to use 
and how to ignite it…….

 

 

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 2:11 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group mailto:af@af.afmug.com> >
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good?

 

so 2-4 off the firs list are off the first list.

 

you could probably find somebody to argue number 1, if nobody steps up, ill 
argue it

 

settled science doesnt exist, thats the exact opposite of science

 

i think we should just shoot everybody. thats got nothing to do with the 
disease, we should just all be shot. a whole lot less disagreement that way. 
Would never work though, we would never get past the caliber argument to even 
get to shooting

 

On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 1:48 PM Robert Andrews mailto:i...@avantwireless.com> > wrote:

Not sure about a4.   I don't think Hong Kong, South Korea, New Zealand, 
Australia has the same statistics as anywhere else but that depends upon 
what statistics you are talking about.Hong Kong stands out the most. 
   Look at the cases and the deaths as of Today and you will wonder WTF 
are they making it all up?  Could be, but most think they are accurate 
because they dealt with SARS before, they really knew what they were 
doing