It's not really wrong to attribute deaths that were caused by the cure to the disease, since they wouldn't happened without it... the thing that we can't ever know, unfortunately, is whether there would have been more or less deaths without the cure. We'll maybe we will know, if half the world starves to death in a few years...
On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:26 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote: > So, is the plan here going to be that we attribute the effects of the cure > being worse than the disease to the disease itself? That is a slick willy > if I ever saw one. Like the Foster kid that died a week ago from not being > able to get into his treatment for his cancer trial. Is that going to > attributed to COVID, its a direct result of the lockdown, which is a direct > result of COVID or the murder suicide where the fella thought he and his > wife might have it (they tested negative post mortem). thats a +3 > > "In Puerto Rico in 2017, only 64 deaths were initially attributed > <https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/28/us/puerto-rico-hurricane-maria-deaths.html> > to > Hurricane Maria. But an analysis of the additional deaths showed the way > that the disaster had, directly and indirectly, led to nearly 3,000 deaths > <https://prstudy.publichealth.gwu.edu/sites/prstudy.publichealth.gwu.edu/files/reports/Acertainment%20of%20the%20Estimated%20Excess%20Mortality%20from%20Hurricane%20Maria%20in%20Puerto%20Rico.pdf> > over > six months. The total included the immediate deaths from mudslides and > drownings, but also sepsis, diabetes and suicides that came later as the > power failure stretched on for months." > > On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:09 PM Steve Jones <thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> At some point, humans are going to have to accept the fact the mother >> nature will always win. Its not PC, but fact of the matter is we keep >> people alive that otherwise wouldnt have been in the gene pool, and then >> they breed. Eugenics in its basic form is correct. We dont simply have more >> diabetics because we eat like garbage, we have more diabetics because >> diabetics dont die like mother nature intended and then they breed and then >> eat like garbage. >> It could be that this virus kills those with comorbidity by design, >> whether by natures selection or by some scientists hand, at this point it >> doesnt really matter, its like buying a toilet after you already pooped on >> the floor. >> >> also, I have a sore throat, I had a good run guys, thanks for all the >> good times >> >> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 12:00 PM Mathew Howard <mhoward...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have >>> been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous >>> years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article, >>> but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). We >>> can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack died >>> because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated heart attack >>> and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether they should be >>> counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If say, an average of >>> 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 years, and this year >>> 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on >>> covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people actually died of covid, but >>> 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, and it just happened to be covid >>> that finished them off instead, or if 500 got so sick of sitting in front >>> of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were never infected. >>> >>> I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many >>> people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a >>> few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths >>> there were. >>> >>> On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof <af...@kwisp.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs >>>> because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased. But if you >>>> read the article, they go out of their way to point out possible errors in >>>> the data, as well as other influences like overloaded healthcare system led >>>> to people dying of other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and >>>> violence. And the data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper >>>> didn’t make them up to suit a political agenda or bias. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted >>>> because the system was overwhelmed. Even in NYC, the morgues and >>>> crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis, >>>> you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled >>>> as Covid related to suit an agenda. Then you have all the prison and >>>> nursing home deaths. OK, sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a >>>> hoax. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *From:* AF <af-boun...@af.afmug.com> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM >>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced >>>> or corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the >>>> numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria. >>>> That is true for the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For >>>> example, the numbers coming from China (and several other countries) are by >>>> design government based. But to brush them all off as "government or >>>> corporations" is being naive at least. >>>> >>>> I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. >>>> Maybe a high percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of >>>> otherwise healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some >>>> point, we will figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor >>>> that we just do not understand yet. >>>> >>>> I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do >>>> not believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is >>>> probably a personal thing. >>>> >>>> bp >>>> >>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: >>>> >>>> You guys work with statistics much? You think the numbers are >>>> accurate? At what point have you ever seen government or corporations >>>> represent 100% accurate numbers? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> I'll let you do your own homework. But I've seen hundreds of reports >>>> from all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as >>>> covid deaths. Since most patients have existing conditions and many were >>>> already dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc) are >>>> being attributed to covid. Some people have estimated that upward of 20% >>>> misrepresented. So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the >>>> statistics are not accurate. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Steven Kenney >>>> Network Operations Manager >>>> WaveDirect Telecommunications >>>> http://www.wavedirect.net >>>> (519)737-WAVE (9283) >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From: *"Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> <part15...@gmail.com> >>>> *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com> <af@af.afmug.com> >>>> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM >>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do >>>> when we don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also >>>> (probably) missed a whole lot of the early deaths, as they were >>>> miss-classified. If you think under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all >>>> the hospitals around the country and are coordinating false numbers on all >>>> the rest of us, then I have a tin hat that might fit real well. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> bp >>>> >>>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: >>>> >>>> Numbers are completely false. Even with that taken into regard it >>>> still is just as lethal as the regular flu. While it is way more harsh on >>>> people if they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't >>>> know they had them, or didn't take it serious when they got it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their >>>> agenda. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Steven Kenney >>>> Network Operations Manager >>>> WaveDirect Telecommunications >>>> http://www.wavedirect.net >>>> (519)737-WAVE (9283) >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------ >>>> >>>> *From: *"chuck" <ch...@wbmfg.com> <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>> *To: *"af" <af@af.afmug.com> <af@af.afmug.com> >>>> *Sent: *Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM >>>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] OT Is this good? >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> [image: image] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart... Let’s hope >>>> we are on the tail of a normal curve. >>>> >>>> 6 days in a row decline. But it has done this cycle 3 times before >>>> with a huge spike after. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> AF mailing list >>>> AF@af.afmug.com >>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>>> >>> -- >>> AF mailing list >>> AF@af.afmug.com >>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >>> >> -- > AF mailing list > AF@af.afmug.com > http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com >
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