For #4, at least in Italy and the UK, age had a big factor in death.
https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/covid-19-coronavirus-infographic-datapack/ ----- Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Kenney" <st...@wavedirect.org> To: "af" <af@af.afmug.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:41:04 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? Can summarize this pretty easily. These are facts that probably we can agree upon. 1) Its a RNA based virus similar if not exactly like an exosome. 2) Its definitely more deadly than the regular flu 3) It isn't as deadly as everyone estimated it to be. (statistics and predictions are all off) 4) Countries who didn't close their economy has similar statistics than countries that did. 5) I'm still staying home either way just to be safe! These points are to be debated and NOBODY can say with absolute certainty these things are correct. 1) The virus originated from China 2) It originated from a lab studying the virus. 3) It escaped either intentionally or accidentally. 4) The demographics the virus impacts may or may not be specific (old, young, white, black, asian etc) 5) The people reporting statistics for deaths/infections are 100% accurate. There are cases all over of under reporting and over reporting. -- Steven Kenney Network Operations Manager WaveDirect Telecommunications http://www.wavedirect.net (519)737-WAVE (9283) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mathew Howard" <mhoward...@gmail.com> To: "af" <af@af.afmug.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 12:59:03 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? It seems to me, that what really matters is how many deaths there have been in excess of what the average was for the same period in previous years (yes, I know that's what they're talking about in the NYT article, but I'm too lazy to read it all and see how much detail they go into). We can argue all day about whether somebody that died of a heart attack died because they had covid19 or whether they just had an unrelated heart attack and just happened to have a mild case of covid, and whether they should be counted, but in the end, it doesn't really matter. If say, an average of 10,000 people died in X state in April for the past 5 years, and this year 15,000 died, then we can pretty safely blame 5,000 of those deaths on covid. It doesn't really matter if 6,000 people actually died of covid, but 1000 of them would've died of flu anyway, and it just happened to be covid that finished them off instead, or if 500 got so sick of sitting in front of the tv that they jumped off a bridge and were never infected. I don't think we'll ever have particularly accurate numbers of how many people directly died of the infection (other than maybe in Utah), but in a few months we should have pretty accurate numbers of how many excess deaths there were. On Tue, May 5, 2020 at 11:22 AM Ken Hohhof < af...@kwisp.com > wrote: Those who suspect an “agenda” will immediately dispute these graphs because the source is NYT which they will perceive as biased. But if you read the article, they go out of their way to point out possible errors in the data, as well as other influences like overloaded healthcare system led to people dying of other causes, but also less deaths due to traffic and violence. And the data as Bill says is from other sources, the paper didn’t make them up to suit a political agenda or bias. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/28/us/coronavirus-death-toll-total.html In other countries like Italy, no doubt the deaths were undercounted because the system was overwhelmed. Even in NYC, the morgues and crematories are overloaded, they are stuffing bodies in refrigerated semis, you can’t possibly claim these are just the normal deaths being mislabeled as Covid related to suit an agenda. Then you have all the prison and nursing home deaths. OK, sure, elderly people croak all the time, it’s a hoax. From: AF < af-boun...@af.afmug.com > On Behalf Of Bill Prince Sent: Tuesday, May 5, 2020 11:02 AM To: af@af.afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? The numbers posted on various web sites are neither government sourced or corporate sourced. Hospitals, clinics, and morgues are supplying the numbers. There is a level of uncertainty because of different criteria. That is true for the US cases, but probably not for other countries. For example, the numbers coming from China (and several other countries) are by design government based. But to brush them all off as "government or corporations" is being naive at least. I would not say that "most" patients have pre-existing conditions. Maybe a high percentage, but it does not explain why such a large number of otherwise healthy people are being infected the way they are. At some point, we will figure out that there is a genetic or environmental factor that we just do not understand yet. I (for one) do not believe the numbers are 100% accurate, but I also do not believe the numbers are 100% fictitious either. Where you cut off is probably a personal thing. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 5/5/2020 6:55 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: <blockquote> You guys work with statistics much? You think the numbers are accurate? At what point have you ever seen government or corporations represent 100% accurate numbers? I'll let you do your own homework. But I've seen hundreds of reports from all over the place of deaths of natural causes being classified as covid deaths. Since most patients have existing conditions and many were already dying and died of those conditions (heart attack, cancer etc) are being attributed to covid. Some people have estimated that upward of 20% misrepresented. So as long as there is 1 case that is questionable - the statistics are not accurate. -- Steven Kenney Network Operations Manager WaveDirect Telecommunications http://www.wavedirect.net (519)737-WAVE (9283) From: "Bill Prince" <part15...@gmail.com> To: "af" <af@af.afmug.com> Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 2:04:16 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? The numbers are not "completely" false, but it's the best we can do when we don't actually test all the suspected infections. It also (probably) missed a whole lot of the early deaths, as they were miss-classified. If you think under-ground near-do-wells are planted in all the hospitals around the country and are coordinating false numbers on all the rest of us, then I have a tin hat that might fit real well. bp <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com> On 5/4/2020 10:48 AM, Steven Kenney wrote: <blockquote> Numbers are completely false. Even with that taken into regard it still is just as lethal as the regular flu. While it is way more harsh on people if they get it, most people have underlying conditions, or didn't know they had them, or didn't take it serious when they got it. Unfortunately politicians never waste a crisis to further their agenda. -- Steven Kenney Network Operations Manager WaveDirect Telecommunications http://www.wavedirect.net (519)737-WAVE (9283) From: "chuck" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: "af" <af@af.afmug.com> Sent: Monday, May 4, 2020 12:30:08 PM Subject: [AFMUG] OT Is this good? image Every time I get my hopes up this curve breaks my heart... Let’s hope we are on the tail of a normal curve. 6 days in a row decline. But it has done this cycle 3 times before with a huge spike after. -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com </blockquote> -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com -- AF mailing list AF@af.afmug.com http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
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