Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

On 7/2/20 3:47 pm, Graeme Fitzpatrick wrote: On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 14:30, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com > wrote: Let say a hospital has collapsed. The crisis mapping page I linked to would have you add the tag damaged=collapsed to the amenity=hospit

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

Dear Paul, The example you use is a very good one, but not necessarily for the reason you intended. The fountain in the picture you show is an old style fountain with a drinking cup who style was banned by Federal Regulation in the US in 1912 due to its unsanitary nature. I would therefore tag t

Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 14:30, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > Let say a hospital has collapsed. > > The crisis mapping page I linked to would have you add the tag > damaged=collapsed to the amenity=hospital. > > So the render would render the hospital the same as a fully functional > hospita

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.25.0

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 5:27 PM Christoph Hormann wrote: > > On Thursday 06 February 2020, Marc Gemis wrote: > > > And I want to end with a quote from {1] > > > > "My approach to this matter has been – from the beginning of my > > contributions to OSM-Carto – to regard the role and task of the >

Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

On 7/2/20 10:45 am, Paul Allen wrote: On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 23:29, Andrew Harvey > wrote: I disagree with the whole premise. To me both building=yes+ruins=yes and ruins:building=yes means exactly the same thing and should be interpreted the same wa

Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 10:28, Joseph Eisenberg wrote: > > General, all values of “building=“ have an intact roof. > > If the roof of a structure has collapsed, it would be misleading to use > the key “building=“ > Sorry, but a bit of an awkward definition, that one! The entire roof has collapsed

Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

It is best to use ruins:building= because a ruin is not a building in the usual sense or in how the tag “building” is used in Openstreetmap. General, all values of “building=“ have an intact roof. If the roof of a structure has collapsed, it would be misleading to use the key “building=“ -Joseph

Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 10:47, Paul Allen wrote: > On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 23:29, Andrew Harvey > wrote: > >> >> I disagree with the whole premise. To me both building=yes+ruins=yes and >> ruins:building=yes means exactly the same thing and should be interpreted >> the same way. >> > > But they AREN

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On 7/2/20 4:22 am, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: sent from a phone Il giorno 6 feb 2020, alle ore 16:50, European Water Project ha scritto: drinking_water = as a sub-tag seems more logical. Assuming we open the pandora's box of removing amenity=drinking_water which is used on 207,000 nodes

Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 23:29, Andrew Harvey wrote: > > I disagree with the whole premise. To me both building=yes+ruins=yes and > ruins:building=yes means exactly the same thing and should be interpreted > the same way. > But they AREN'T. The way you suggested was the correct way to tag a ruined

Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

On Fri, 7 Feb 2020 at 01:21, Paul Allen wrote: > On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:40, Andrew Harvey > wrote: > >> ruins:building=yes is not just tagging for other mappers, it's >> accurately describing the feature on the ground, a ruined building. It's >> not quite a building=yes, but not really nothing

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 22:39, António Madeira wrote: > Ok, let's stay in the same page then. :) > Regarding schools, I don't know what you mean, because here, schools dont > have fountains, just taps and those of the bubbler type (maybe old century > schools have fountains in their yards or someth

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On Fri, Feb 7, 2020 at 7:41 AM António Madeira via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > > Regarding schools, I don't know what you mean, because here, schools dont > have fountains, just taps and those of the bubbler type (maybe old century > schools have fountains in their yards or somet

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

Ok, let's stay in the same page then. :) Regarding schools, I don't know what you mean, because here, schools dont have fountains, just taps and those of the bubbler type (maybe old century schools have fountains in their yards or something similar). Às 18:20 de 06/02/2020, Paul Allen escreveu:

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 20:54, António Madeira wrote: > I did read the description closely, and what I said still applies: in > Portugal it is a fountain in the way it is described in Britain, an > amenity=fountain with no drinking water. > I think we may be talking past each other again. That's

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

This also is important. There are fountains (not many) which have an official document in situ to inform that the water was tested, with the analysis results and date. This could go into another key, which would compose even better the fountain tag. I had never noticed that legal=yes/legal=no keys

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

I did read the description closely, and what I said still applies: in Portugal it is a fountain in the way it is described in Britain, an amenity=fountain with no drinking water. That's what I'm trying to explain from the beginning: it doesn't matter if it has drinking water or not, it will always

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

sent from a phone > Il giorno 6 feb 2020, alle ore 20:03, Paul Allen ha > scritto: > > It's better that tags mean the same thing everywhere. Otherwise you > have to check what each country means by each tag. countries are different and so the expectations you have for certain kind of thin

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

While it is true that tags here are based on British English, it is also true that there are mappers from all over the world that are dissatisfied because of the narrowness offered by the English language when describing certain things. There was recently a discussion among Spanish mappers on how

Re: [Tagging] Relation for multi-part artworks

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:20, Andy Mabbett wrote: > > I hope to find consensus for how to tag artworks with multiple parts, > as a relation. > We could use relation_type:set (which I used for the Moonstones) or > define a new relation_type:artwork To further complicate matters I have had an off-l

Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 08:12:17 + Paul Allen wrote: > Lifecycle prefixes prevent rendering of the feature. They are > equivalent to deleting the feature tag and adding a note to the > effect that the object is a disused . Except that the word > "disused" might not appear in the note and a syno

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 18:10, António Madeira wrote: > > If you come to Portugal and want to find drinkin water, you should know > that most fountains have drinking water, like I need to know the opposite > when I go to the UK. > But OSM maps can be viewed from anywhere in the world by people pla

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 18:10, António Madeira wrote: > > If you come to Portugal and want to find drinkin water, you should know > that most fountains have drinking water, like I need to know the opposite > when I go to the UK. > ___ Tagging mailing list

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - give box

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 17:53, Peter Neale wrote: > Oh, so, the Wiki doesn't use standard British English then.? Hmmm. > It uses standard, British informal English, rather than the technical British English used to describe voting procedures. > Your final comment reminds me of my IT Course

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

Just to complement. If you come to Portugal and want to find drinkin water, you should know that most fountains have drinking water, like I need to know the opposite when I go to the UK. Also, if you come here, you need to know that we drive on the opposite side of the road. That doesn't mean that

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

That's what drinking_water=yes is used for, right? In Britain, you don't use drinking_water=yes, in Portugal (or whatever country it may be) we use amenity=fountain (which is always decorative/ornamental/historic, so it fits your conception of fountain) AND drinking_water=yes. For me, it's simple

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - give box

Oh, so, the Wiki doesn't use standard British English then.?   Hmmm.   Your final comment reminds me of my IT Course.  "Definition of Recursion: See Recursion". ;-) Regards,Peter >On Thursday, 6 February 2020, 17:39:35 GMT, Paul Allen wrote: >On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 17:09, Peter Neale

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 17:38, António Madeira wrote: > It's not arbitrary and you're missing the point by circling around a non > issue. > We seem to be talking past each other. I'm not saying to change the meaning of fountain, which can have some > subtle differences between countries, > Would

Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 125, Issue 38

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 17:09, Peter Neale via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > > "abstain /əbˈsteɪn/ > verb > [...] > Powered by Oxford Dictionaries" > > So an abstention is NOT a vote > I thought I gave a link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abstention but I must have forgotten. I

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

It's not arbitrary and you're missing the point by circling around a non issue. I'm not saying to change the meaning of fountain, which can have some subtle differences between countries, I'm saying to let it open to retain its British meaning and add the possibility to have different uses dependi

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 05:24:53PM +, Paul Allen wrote: > On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 16:48, António Madeira wrote: > certain reality. > > A fountain is a fountain, if in England it doesn't implies > > drinking_water=yes, that's fine. In the majority of European countries, it But the point is that

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

sent from a phone > Il giorno 6 feb 2020, alle ore 17:48, António Madeira > ha scritto: > > A fountain is a fountain, if in England it doesn't implies > drinking_water=yes, that's fine. In the majority of European countries, it > does imply, so it's just fair and logical that the wiki refle

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 16:48, António Madeira wrote: > Paul, I'm not calling it anything. We all know that OSM uses British > English for tagging. What I'm saying is that it's better to widen the scope > of the tag, than restrict it to a > certain reality. > A fountain is a fountain, if in England

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

sent from a phone > Il giorno 6 feb 2020, alle ore 16:50, European Water Project > ha scritto: > > drinking_water = as a sub-tag seems more logical. > > Assuming we open the pandora's box of removing amenity=drinking_water which > is used on 207,000 nodes and ways. > https://taginfo.opens

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.25.0

W dniu 06.02.2020 o 17:25, Christoph Hormann pisze: > Rendering such in OSM-Carto would not be mapper support, it would be > sabotage. As much as I disagree with you on what should be rendered or not (and why), I understand how sure you are of you about your opinions. But the thing that bothered

Re: [Tagging] Tagging Digest, Vol 125, Issue 38

>Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2020 10:59:59 -0500 >From: Jmapb >To: Paul Allen , "Tag discussion, strategy and >    related tools" >Subject: Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - give box >Message-ID: <1f291f4c-ccbf-34eb-99de-d1fa69570...@gmx.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

Paul, I'm not calling it anything. We all know that OSM uses British English for tagging. What I'm saying is that it's better to widen the scope of the tag, than restrict it to a certain reality. A fountain is a fountain, if in England it doesn't implies drinking_water=yes, that's fine. In the maj

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

man_made=water_tap drinking_water=yes https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:man_made%3Dwater_tap Though amenity=drinking_water is good enough as a generic tag that is useful when you don’t want to spend time in the wiki to find the precise set of tags. Le jeu. 6 févr. 2020 à 17:04, Paul Allen

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

The wiki page for drinking fountain suggests they may be supplied by free flowing water or by a tap. What cases are you referring to? Sent from Jake Edmonds' iPhone > On 6 Feb 2020, at 17:04, Paul Allen wrote: > >  >> On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 15:50, European Water Project >> wrote: >> > >

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

Hi Paul, Good point. I don't know ... maybe there will be some cases where there is no improved alternative to amenity=drinking_water. I will rephrase the above ... "I can see that removing amenity=drinking_water as a tag in many cases makes sense " Best regards, Stuart On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 1

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.25.0

On Thursday 06 February 2020, Marc Gemis wrote: > > And please keep in mind that - as i mentioned - barrier=hedge is > > not the dominant tag for mapping hedges with polygons in the first > > place - as i have shown with various links earlier. > > I only clicked on a few of your examples and had to

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 15:50, European Water Project < europeanwaterproj...@gmail.com> wrote: I also agree that removing amenity=drinking_water as a tag makes sense. The > physical attributes of a node/way still exists - irrespective of whether > the water is drinking quality. For example, a sprin

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 15:27, António Madeira wrote: > > If, in Britain, a fountain is normally a ornamental fountain, that > shouldn't restrict the possibility of widening its meaning to encompass the > reality in other countries, > OSM tag names and values use British English where possible. T

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - give box

On 2/6/2020 10:47 AM, Paul Allen wrote: And if they wanted to comment but not vote they'd add their comment to the talk page instead.  Right? Absolutely! If that's what the instructions said. But they clearly say that if you do want to comment, but you don't want to vote, then choose "abstain."

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

Dear All, I also agree that removing amenity=drinking_water as a tag makes sense. The physical attributes of a node/way still exists - irrespective of whether the water is drinking quality. For example, a spring which has water polluted after a big storm, stays a spring. drinking_water = as a s

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - give box

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 15:19, Jmapb via Tagging wrote: > The current description of "approved" on > https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal_process is: > > > A rule of thumb for enough support is 8 unanimous approval votes or at > least 10 votes with more than 74 % approval > Reading that, an

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

I'm not going into etymologic discussions, but fountain, be it in British English or any other language with Latin origins is a source of drinkable water (a spring). Maybe, just guessing, there were fountains in Britain and they're not used anymore or were simply abandoned because they were not ne

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - give box

[Sorry for the repost, corrected wiki link below...] On 2/6/2020 5:40 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Actually, in the past we always have counted every kind of comment (vote yes / no and abstain) as part of the total, which indeed led to the situation that an (explicit) abstention effectively c

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - give box

On 2/6/2020 5:40 AM, Martin Koppenhoefer wrote: Actually, in the past we always have counted every kind of comment (vote yes / no and abstain) as part of the total, which indeed led to the situation that an (explicit) abstention effectively counted like a no-vote. Are we going to change this now

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 14:15, António Madeira via Tagging < tagging@openstreetmap.org> wrote: > A fountain should be first and foremost a place where there's water served > to the public. > That may be the meaning of the word in some languages, but OSM uses British English. In British English the

Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 13:40, Andrew Harvey wrote: > ruins:building=yes is not just tagging for other mappers, it's > accurately describing the feature on the ground, a ruined building. It's > not quite a building=yes, but not really nothing left on the ground, so > it's just part of the lifecycle

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

A fountain should be first and foremost a place where there's water served to the public. The concept of "sculptural and/or decorational" should be just a component of the fountain, depending on the country/culture. As its historical/heritage value. In Portugal, where there are thousands of founta

Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

ruins:building=yes is not just tagging for other mappers, it's accurately describing the feature on the ground, a ruined building. It's not quite a building=yes, but not really nothing left on the ground, so it's just part of the lifecycle. On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 19:23, Paul Allen wrote: > On Thu

Re: [Tagging] Relation for multi-part artworks

I would quite happily call a collection of statues near to each other an "artistic site", similar to a wind farm being a collection of turbines On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 12:49 PM Andy Mabbett wrote: > On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:41, marc marc wrote: > > > > Le 06.02.20 à 13:20, Andy Mabbett a écrit :

Re: [Tagging] Relation for multi-part artworks

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 12:41, marc marc wrote: > > Le 06.02.20 à 13:20, Andy Mabbett a écrit : > > We could use relation_type:set > > why not using relation type=site that already exist ? Because they are not a "site". -- Andy Mabbett @pigsonthewing http://pigsonthewing.org.uk _

Re: [Tagging] Relation for multi-part artworks

Le 06.02.20 à 13:20, Andy Mabbett a écrit : > We could use relation_type:set why not using relation type=site that already exist ? ___ Tagging mailing list Tagging@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging

[Tagging] Relation for multi-part artworks

I hope to find consensus for how to tag artworks with multiple parts, as a relation. Here are some examples: Nine 'Moonstones', including: https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2501118658 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2501118659 https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/2501118660 https://

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.25.0

Joseph Eisenberg : > The Netherlands has been claimed as a place where barrier=hedge areas > are used properly and are necessary. I have already downloaded one > whole provicne, Zeeland, which has quite complete landcover and > landuse mapping due to an import. In Zeeland there are 149 uses of > `

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - give box

On Thu, Feb 06, 2020 at 12:22:13AM +, marc marc wrote: > i have in mind the proposal diaper<>changing table: totally ok for the Eh, except that OSM is supposed to use British English, and "diaper" should be nappy. ael ___ Tagging mailing list Tagg

Re: [Tagging] [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto release v4.25.0

On Wed, Feb 05, 2020 at 10:49:23PM -0600, Shawn K. Quinn wrote: > On 2/5/20 17:15, Lionel Giard wrote: > > In my usage, i always thought that using a barrier=* + any other main > > tag was wrong and widely accepted (as i saw that it was separated in > > most examples when i started mapping). Thus m

Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?

sent from a phone > Il giorno 6 feb 2020, alle ore 11:37, Volker Schmidt ha > scritto: > > Sorry, Martin, but what do you do, if you have a big multi-storey building > and all you have is the door bell on the street level? Not map it? that’s indeed a problem with multipolygons ;) But you w

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - give box

Am Do., 6. Feb. 2020 um 01:11 Uhr schrieb Joseph Eisenberg < joseph.eisenb...@gmail.com>: > Ok, so we should consider it approved in this case. > > (For context, both Mateusz Konieczny and myself have abstained, along > with 3 others, but had comments expressing concern about using > "give_box" in

Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?

Sorry, Martin, but what do you do, if you have a big multi-storey building and all you have is the door bell on the street level? Not map it? The Tuebingen example illustrates the problem. The relation has two nodes in a multipolygon as outer? That is not kosher either. Volker On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 a

Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?

Am Do., 6. Feb. 2020 um 11:01 Uhr schrieb Volker Schmidt : > Padua, Italy, where I live, has a big university spread all over the > place. This includes smaller sections being in apartments in buildings that > are mainly used residentially. > yes, I am also well familiar with universities spread

Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 10:01, Volker Schmidt wrote: > Padua, Italy, where I live, has a big university spread all over the > place. This includes smaller sections being in apartments in buildings that > are mainly used residentially. > This is the case with the University of Edinburgh. Well, it

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

Am Do., 6. Feb. 2020 um 10:55 Uhr schrieb Cascafico Giovanni < cascaf...@gmail.com>: > > Since fountain is intended as "sculptural and/or decorational", IMHO > amenity=fountain is not consistent. AFAIK object belonging to > "amenity" are in someway necessities. So one day, I hope to see > fountain

Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?

Padua, Italy, where I live, has a big university spread all over the place. This includes smaller sections being in apartments in buildings that are mainly used residentially. With other words "pieces" of the University come in all sizes and shapes, from what would be a typical campus to single apa

Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?

Am Do., 6. Feb. 2020 um 10:16 Uhr schrieb Lionel Giard < lionel.gi...@gmail.com>: > One problem with multipolygon relation is that by definition you can't put > *node > *it those and you can't put *contiguous buildings* either. How do you > group "node + polygons + multipolygon" (some buildings a

Re: [Tagging] How to tag an utilitarian fountain?

Il giorno mer 5 feb 2020 alle ore 23:07 Mateusz Konieczny via Tagging ha scritto: > And amenity=drinking_water may be combined with them (except of unfortunate > case of fountain). Since fountain is intended as "sculptural and/or decorational", IMHO amenity=fountain is not consistent. AFAIK obj

Re: [Tagging] amenity=faculty?

One problem with multipolygon relation is that by definition you can't put *node *it those and you can't put *contiguous buildings* either. How do you group "node + polygons + multipolygon" (some buildings are a multipolygon already where the hole is not part of the university ^_^) with other thing

Re: [Tagging] key damage and HOT

On Thu, 6 Feb 2020 at 05:06, Warin <61sundow...@gmail.com> wrote: > It seems to me that the present use of the key damage=*, which has no > documentation, would better fit into the life cycle system. > If we need it to map damage all (I think we do) then we need both ways of doing it, for the sam

Re: [Tagging] Feature Proposal - Voting - give box

Hello Joseph Eisenberg Thanks for your input and your intention to keep this wiki clear. I did not count "abstain" as part of the vote total and I don't see any good reason for doing that. The discussion about the name, was early in the voting. After that the people still voted "yes". There a