2008/8/1 Oleg Goldshmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> "Dotan Cohen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
>> Just because an ISP provides the pipe from your door to the Wild,
>> Wild, Web does not mean that they have to handle your business mail,
>> http, and other traffic.
>
> Yes, it does mean exactly that, at
"Dotan Cohen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Just because an ISP provides the pipe from your door to the Wild,
> Wild, Web does not mean that they have to handle your business mail,
> http, and other traffic.
Yes, it does mean exactly that, at least as long as no EXPLICIT
statement was meant at th
2008/7/31 Tzafrir Cohen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> This dog is blocking the mails I send from work. We have a small office.
> connected via ADSL. We got a static IP address and got the ISP to
> reference the PTR record of that IP to a host name in our domain.
>
> This makes most mail servers in the wor
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 12:42:28AM +1000, Arik Baratz wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:59 PM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > It means they have 208 IPs that sent at least *one* spam in the past 7 days
> > from a range that includes 131070 hosts!
> > The way they are calculating it,
On Wed, Jul 30, 2008 at 08:53:58PM +0300, Dotan Cohen wrote:
> 2008/7/30 Stanislav Malyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > I'd say they should stop using it. If somebody has a dog that bites
> > everybody who wears black or green, the solution is not everybody wearing
> > orange and blue, the solution is
2008/7/30 Stanislav Malyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I hate spam as much as the next guy - probably more, since I have to keep
> publicly available mailing addresses for my job. But at the end it comes to
> the point where people who have nothing to do with spam or all those
> arguments around how t
Hi!
This dog is not biting those who wear black or green. This dog is
biting ISP's who let their users send spam.
I hate spam as much as the next guy - probably more, since I have to
keep publicly available mailing addresses for my job. But at the end it
comes to the point where people wh
On Wednesday, 30 בJuly 2008 20:53, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>
> This dog is not biting those who wear black or green. This dog is
> biting ISP's who let their users send spam.
No, this is a irresponsible RBL maintainer. In the end they'll get
sued and close shop, just like other such RBLs have.
--Ari
2008/7/30 Stanislav Malyshev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I'd say they should stop using it. If somebody has a dog that bites
> everybody who wears black or green, the solution is not everybody wearing
> orange and blue, the solution is to train the dog to behave properly or stop
> visiting them at all.
Hi!
This RBL, even if is a bit extremist, is something used by a few of our
customers's commercial spam filtering product.
I'd say they should stop using it. If somebody has a dog that bites
everybody who wears black or green, the solution is not everybody
wearing orange and blue, the solut
On 28/07/2008, at 08:04, Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
I was involved with a start-up ISP that was to provide free access via
WiFi. The money for basic access and infrastructure was to come from
advertising.
I was also, in the US. I don't know what the financial plan was, just
the technical
2008/7/28 Geoffrey S. Mendelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[ deleted for bravity]
As usual - your historic reviews are an interesting and educative read even
for those of us who saw some of this action. Thanks!
The startup you are reffering to AFAIK is FON from Spain, which allows
> you to get credit by
On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 02:02:46PM +1000, Amos Shapira wrote:
>
> As far as I remember, the first time I heard about the option for meshed
> ISP's it was a for-profit organisation allowing clients to ramp up credits
> for their own use by allowing others to make use of their own uplink via
> WiFi.
2008/7/27 Omer Zak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> I noticed that there were no comments about mesh networks with
> WiFi/packet forwarding. Such things are inherently non-profit.
Are they?
As far as I remember, the first time I heard about the option for meshed
ISP's it was a for-profit organisation all
On Sat, 2008-07-26 at 17:30 +0300, Imri Zvik wrote:
> While it is theoretically possible to setup a non-profit ISP, it is not
> practical.
> It takes A LOT of money to run an ISP - just the submarine uplinks costs a
> couple of hundred K's of $ per month, and even if you manage to get a serious
ECTED] בשם Omer Zak
Date: Sat 26/07/2008 11:16
To: linux-il
Subject: Spam handling (was: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting)
On Sat, 2008-07-26 at 00:05 +0300, Ariel Biener wrote:
> 1. SPAM is here to stay, mostly due to human nature. For people who want to
> sell something, this is an ea
05
To: Imri Zvik
Cc: Arik Baratz; linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
On 7/25/08, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Why do you think any system was hacked?
>
> It seems you do not understand how it works - they don't hack into any ISP
> managed system. T
On Sat, 2008-07-26 at 00:05 +0300, Ariel Biener wrote:
> 1. SPAM is here to stay, mostly due to human nature. For people who want to
> sell something, this is an easy and cheap way to get more clients. This is
> from the human psychology/sociology point of view
Asking myself whether it wou
On Thursday, 24 בJuly 2008 23:39, Oron Peled wrote:
While I do have a faint hope to see this thread die eventually, and I
avoided saying anything so far, I do want to make one or two contributions,
mostly factual, and some based on my own experience and beliefs,
so bear with me.
1. SPAM is here
On Friday, 25 בJuly 2008 14:12, sara fink wrote:
> Hacking into the system-> privelege escalation-> spamming (and this is only
> one aspect after the system was hacked). DDos is a much nicer effect
> from the hacker standpoint of view.
Actually, this is not quite so.
The hackers/hacking scene
Spammers from abroad will mostly use methods 1 to 3.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: sara fink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Fri 25/07/2008 14:12
> To: Imri Zvik
> Cc: Arik Baratz; linux-il
> Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
>
>
>
>
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 07:09:49PM +0300, sammy ominsky wrote:
>
> On 25/07/2008, at 18:54, Dotan Cohen wrote:
>
> >A very friendly and knowledgeable Frenchman from the Debian list just
> >emailed me about an Israeli spammer that is sending him megabytes of
> >spam everyday- in Hebrew! It appears
On 25/07/2008, at 18:54, Dotan Cohen wrote:
A very friendly and knowledgeable Frenchman from the Debian list just
emailed me about an Israeli spammer that is sending him megabytes of
spam everyday- in Hebrew! It appears that this is a case of (4) from
your list. How do I determine the ISP from
2008/7/25 Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Why do you think any system was hacked?
>
> It seems you do not understand how it works - they don't hack into any ISP
> managed system. They don't need to. They either:
>
> 1. phish the username and password.
> 2. get it from *your* computer using a troj
To: Imri Zvik
Cc: Arik Baratz; linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Why ISP will spend time to block spammers, when they spend their time
to block/shape/inspect p2p, voip and other protocols. After all this saves much
more
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 6:30 PM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I cannot discuss this further when you refuse to give ANY factual data. You
> publicy trash people (the abuse@ and all the other people behind that ISP)
> with quite a harsh words, and refuse to back it up with facts.
>
So do
How ISP deal with the fact that their systems were hacked?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: sara fink [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Fri 25/07/2008 13:49
> To: Imri Zvik
> Cc: Arik Baratz; linux-il
> Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisti
Zvik
Cc: Arik Baratz; linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Why ISP will spend time to block spammers, when they spend their time to
block/shape/inspect p2p, voip and other protocols. After all this saves much
more money.
I would like to ask a more general question. If spammers from
hours after the original flametory post,
> I still didn't get ANYTHING to work with.
>
>
>
>
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] בשם Arik Baratz
> Date: ו 25/07/2008 05:21
> To: linux-il
> Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
>
>
>
&
25/07/2008 05:21
To: linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Let me get this straight - You claim you already know of a specific
user that is abusing you over and over. You complain that this ISP i
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 8:40 AM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Let me get this straight - You claim you already know of a specific user
> that is abusing you over and over. You complain that this ISP is not willing
> to help. I'm offering to help you, and I'm in the position to do so.
> Y
2008/7/24 Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> How many people in this list thinks it's a good idea?
>
By default, yes. If someone needs to send email from localhost, let
them specifically request it from their ISP. Then they can't claim
stupid when SPAM is sent from their IP (be it static or dynamic)
h more sane and productive way.
From: Noam Rathaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: ה 24/07/2008 18:21
To: Imri Zvik
Cc: linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting [summary and stop]
Hi,
1) You are right, but not every plays by the rules, we recently had to prevent
9
To: Imri Zvik; linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:22 PM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I can only assume you are addressing me.
Due to the latest trend of libel suits, I cannot confirm nor deny.
You are just flami
On Thursday, 24 בJuly 2008, Noam Rathaus wrote:
> Oh a friend of mine (thanks) pointed me to this:
> ISPs that block Port 25
>
> This list contains some of the major ISPs that block port 25 on their
> servers
That does not mean we want every ISP to copy their behaviour.
> Comcast ATTBI
Yes, th
shimi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Do you have any better solution? :)
Well, merits and downsides of different solutions may be (and are)
discussed at length. I do not intend to spend my time on it. However,
I do postulate the following: no solution that prevents me from doing
something perfectl
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:17 PM, Oleg Goldshmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> shimi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Or did you just use users dial-up/DSL/cable IP ranges in your test,
> > which SHOULD be blacklisted (why would a home user need to emit SMTP
> > traffic on his own instead of his I
shimi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Or did you just use users dial-up/DSL/cable IP ranges in your test,
> which SHOULD be blacklisted (why would a home user need to emit SMTP
> traffic on his own instead of his ISP SMTP servers, where proper
> authentication and thus logging and auditing can be ta
ROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:36 PM
To: Imri Zvik
Cc: shimi; linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Just my two cents, I checked a few IP addresses that are listed under the AS
of zahav.net.il, as well as the mail server of zahav.net.il
And it is very close to getting RBL bloc
ough your ISP - you wouldn't be able to do that.
> >
> > This is the *only* way you can live up to uceprotect's expectations in
> > the long run.
> >
> > I am *really* interested to know how many users in this list are pro this
> > suggestion, and how man
On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 12:13 AM, Noam Rathaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Arik didn't disappear, maybe he has work to do beside answering emails here
> -
> I trust Arik to get back to you.
>
> > Only one person (Arik) complained about actual problem, and when I asked
> > for information he dis
t my words.
-Original Message-
From: Noam Rathaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:43 PM
To: Imri Zvik
Cc: Omer Zak; linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Imri,
Ok - don't block anything.
Continue as usual
I understand that this war was lost when I renewed
's expectations in the
> long run.
>
> I am *really* interested to know how many users in this list are pro this
> suggestion, and how many are against it.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Noam Rathaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July
s it's a good idea?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Noam Rathaus Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:33 PM
> To: linux-il
> Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting [summary and stop]
>
> Hi,
>
> My last
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:59 PM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It means they have 208 IPs that sent at least *one* spam in the past 7 days
> from a range that includes 131070 hosts!
> The way they are calculating it, it means it could be that they only got
> 208 spam emails in the last 7
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:22 PM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I can only assume you are addressing me.
>
Due to the latest trend of libel suits, I cannot confirm nor deny.
> You are just flaming now. You have no idea what we are doing to stop or
> fight spam, and this public list is
t;
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Noam Rathaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
> To: Imri Zvik
> Cc: Omer Zak; linux-il
> Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
>
> Hi,
>
> You are right, it is easy to get RBLed, and semi-e
Hi,
My last email on the subject :)
As it appears that some people are pro-ISP, some are con-ISP, and I don't care
which is which
All I wanted to see, whether this is a global issue, apparently it is, more
than one is willing to talk about it, I believe others simply don't know they
are black
lf Of shimi
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:16 PM
> To: Imri Zvik
> Cc: Noam Rathaus; linux-il
> Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
>
>
>
> Imri,
>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> How do you know abuse@ d
ginal Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Noam Rathaus Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:33 PM
> To: linux-il
> Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting [summary and stop]
>
> Hi,
>
> My last email on the subject :)
>
> As it appe
Imri,
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 3:57 PM, Imri Zvik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How do you know abuse@ doesn't "really take care of users"? It seems like
> your whole response is generalizing and vague.
>
I know because if after two weeks from their reply that they will "handle
it" I see the same
-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Noam Rathaus
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:33 PM
To: linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting [summary and stop]
Hi,
My last email on the subject :)
As it appears that some people are pro-ISP, some are con-ISP, and I
complained that the ISPs shouldn't block ports at all.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Noam Rathaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 4:24 PM
> To: Imri Zvik
> Cc: Omer Zak; linux-il
> Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
&
08 4:24 PM
To: Imri Zvik
Cc: Omer Zak; linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Hi,
This RBL, even if is a bit extremist, is something used by a few of our
customers's commercial spam filtering product.
So this affects not just me, but others, but I am getting the feeling
here
tha
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 10:11 PM, Noam Rathaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
I am taking my "stuff" elsewhere, the ISP's responsibility is to provide
> service, and it should be good service - meaning stopping others from
> abusing
> the network, which in turn is used against me - as I am blocked in
g to flame.
-Original Message-
From: Noam Rathaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
To: Imri Zvik
Cc: Omer Zak; linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Hi,
You are right, it is easy to get RBLed, and semi-easy to get out of an
RBL,
but it doesn'
mic IPs".
-Original Message-
From: Noam Rathaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 3:09 PM
To: Imri Zvik
Cc: shimi; linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Hi,
Exactly you prove my point, you proved that none of the Israeli ISPs are doing
anything
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 2:31 PM, Noam Rathaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I haven't dropped water into a boiling pan for nothing if you go here:
> http://www.uceprotect.net/en/rblcheck.php
>
> You will see that the IP (a hosted server):
> 192.117.232.213
>
> Is all ok, beside the last one
7;t you try your [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Noam Rathaus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
> To: Imri Zvik
> Cc: linux-il
> Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
>
> Sorry but I don't
-Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Omer Zak
> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:38 PM
> To: linux-il
> Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
>
> I have E-mailed my ISP about this.
>
> You may want to add t
cklist Level 1. "
>
> Please notice the last sentence.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Noam Rathaus Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 2:32 PM
> To: shimi
> Cc: linux-il
> Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Black
UCEPROTECT BLacklist Level 1.
"
Please notice the last sentence.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Noam Rathaus
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 2:32 PM
To: shimi
Cc: linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Hi,
I haven't dropped
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 2:35 PM
To: Imri Zvik
Cc: linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
Sorry but I don't understand why you guys think I checked dynamic
ranges?
I checked hosting ranges, and these SHOULD BE CLEAN, no one in the
hosting
farm should
Sorry but I don't understand why you guys think I checked dynamic ranges?
I checked hosting ranges, and these SHOULD BE CLEAN, no one in the hosting
farm should be sending out SPAM, it is against the policy of the hosting
company, it is clearly written in the agreement you sign when you come in
Hi,
I haven't dropped water into a boiling pan for nothing if you go here:
http://www.uceprotect.net/en/rblcheck.php
You will see that the IP (a hosted server):
192.117.232.213
Is all ok, beside the last one, which is due to the fact that Bezeq Int is
blacklisted, at first I thought it was just
to be removed from, please email abuse@
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Omer Zak
Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 1:38 PM
To: linux-il
Subject: Re: Israeli ISP and Blacklisting
I have E-mailed my ISP about this.
You may want to add to your E-ma
I'm sorry, but checking hosting/dynamic ranges is just misleading. It is
impossible to clean these ranges, and even though the ISPs try.
I don't know this specific RBL, but I don't think it's a widely used one
- Anyway, they "punish" whole AS numbers which seems quite harsh.
If you would _actually
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 12:57 PM, Noam Rathaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone here tried to get the Bezeq Internation, Barak or Netvision to
> get
> them off the blacklisting found here:
> http://www.uceprotect.net/en/rblcheck.php
>
> Apparently all the Israeli ISP are blacklisted
On 2008-07-24, Noam Rathaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> So you use an external service for emails?
>
> If so who?
>
> Otherwise, do you have you server in the US (or elsewhere) just for that?
>
Yes, I have a server in the US for handling email to dotancohen.com. I
use gmail for mailing li
Hi,
I have no idea who is the guy to talk to, anyone has an email list
of "manager" of ISP we can send our email to?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] won't cut it here.
On Thursday 24 July 2008 13:37:41 Omer Zak wrote:
> I have E-mailed my ISP about this.
>
> You may want to add to your E-mail to your ISP als
Hi,
So you use an external service for emails?
If so who?
Otherwise, do you have you server in the US (or elsewhere) just for that?
On Thursday 24 July 2008 13:14:26 Dotan Cohen wrote:
> On 2008-07-24, Noam Rathaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Has anyone here tried to get the Beze
I have E-mailed my ISP about this.
You may want to add to your E-mail to your ISP also your concerns that
since ALL Israeli ISPs are blacklisted, the entire country is in danger
of being backlisted as a country.
While the real reason for such an action would be political, the spam
handling situat
On 2008-07-24, Noam Rathaus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone here tried to get the Bezeq Internation, Barak or Netvision to get
> them off the blacklisting found here:
> http://www.uceprotect.net/en/rblcheck.php
>
> Apparently all the Israeli ISP are blacklisted here (any host you pu
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