ion.
Caveat: this is the perception of someone from another country, based on
media stuff.
I suspect that Hilary Clinton wouldn't have pushed Bill to the White House
if she felt she could make a good stab at it herself! The best she felt she
could realistically achieve for herself was F
Cat wrote:
>
> Ah, but I (as a 23-year-old who was in eighth grade in the late 80's)
> remember very well a choice between taking shop or taking home ec.
You had a choice? Wow. We didn't. Home ec it was, if you had
inward-pointing genitalia. Shop if it pointed out.
J
Cat wrote:
> On Sun, 9 Jan 2000, Jenn V. wrote:
> Wow -- so there has been progress! ;-)
>
> To me, that experience was exactly the sort of thing that women are
> talking about when they talk about the fact that even though
> certain opportunities seem to exist, in a signific
ible.
Learn the reasons women leave jobs, and effectively negate them, and gee,
how much retraining money would be saved?
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall. http://www.pu
o with her husband?
And there were no skeletons in the closets of - oh - any of the Kennedy
men? Or ... Clinton?
Can you /honestly/ tell me this was any worse than all your male
presidents? Or is there a double standard?
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a
more willing to accept bad treatment
than women are?
That women demand fair and honest treatment from their employers, and men
don't? Now isn't that interesting!
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work
use it was a poor district, but I did have
good access to a library. So yes, reading may be one of the determining
factors.
It certainly made me stand out as 'wierd' at school
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is
rriageable age
(when she made her 'debut'), but after she was married - after all the
local Hoi Polloi had met, discussed her, decided who she would wed, and had
her safely wed.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women&#
then would liven
> > things up, methinks.
>
> As soon as they make one with lots of pockets, I'm there.
Lots of pockets. Practical sorts of skirts - ones you can walk in, run in,
and sit down cross-legged on the floor in.
Hm. Maybe this is why I wear jeans?
Jenn V.
--
"
ining has been sewn in place.
Eesh.
WHY are there no pockets in women's clothes? Are we assumed to not want to
carry things?
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall.
ments/whatever. And I don't know
any way to explain to them /how/ these exist. Especially since I can often
see causes in their own actions. Sigh.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Terri Oda wrote:
> Jenn V. wrote:
> >Mmmhmm. IMO (and YMMV) some people can't perceive that there is still
> >discrimination/are still offputting environments/whatever. And I don't know
> >any way to explain to them /how/ these exist. Especially since I can o
l women and a select group of men (eg, this list) take
as base assumptions from which to work.
2. A hell of a lot of people, of both genders, never reach this
point.
3. Almost everything so far is questions. We don't have answers
either.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the cool
ke charge of the male
change.
If you have ideas for things women CAN do, though.. I'd love to
know them. Other than 'be present and visible and competent', I'm
fresh out
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
> Sunnan (geek chicks really politically correct? Oh well..)
Works for me - so long as its meant to indicate 'geek which happens
to have XX chromosomes'. What will we call the guys? Geek blokes?
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion react
Rik Hemsley wrote:
>
> #if Jenn V.
> > In my experience, though, if females attempt to change male
> > behaviour - the male behaviour gets worse. So I'm inclined to let
> > the males who /are/ sympathetic//equalist take charge of the male
> > change.
>
x27;s wrong with the thing that's broken, and leading them to
figuring out a potential repair.
Once they've repaired one thing, it gets easier to lead them to
repairing the next one. Once they've repaired four or five things,
they're into how /good/ it /feels/ to be competent!
m to it, and
(best of all) trips to the mountains/forest/bushland.
It's useful enough to have it that we keep it, but it's used
only where shanks' pony and public transport won't take us.
Bit of a best-of-both-worlds situation.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coola
Terri Oda wrote:
> You're a menace to society as we know it, Jenn. That rocks. :)
(bows) Thank you. Thank you.
And for my next trick..
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
27;.
So long as you give them thinking time and don't frustrate them
with too many questions too quickly, it seems to work well.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/
Jenn Vesperman[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.simegen.com/~jenn
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
iddle of a tutorial? Happened to me.
> Do you feel somewhat aprehensive or uncomfortable in a male mojority
> learning environment?
Absolutely.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Free
rs ago) to advance by marriage or by picking
a management-type career.
Engineering always has been* an indirect and uncertain path to
social status.
* for century sized values of 'always'
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
T
Kirrily 'Skud' Robert wrote:
>
> In article <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Jenn V. wrote:
> >One is a hacker - she does it because she loves it. She isn't paid a hell
> >of a lot, but that's because she owns a startup company. She's happy, if
>
em, and who are
> intelligent. I'm surprised you ahve troulbe finding a date given you
> clearly fit all 3 criteria.
You think so?
In my experience, I intimidate both genders. So I'm uncomfortable
around anyone of /either/ gender who isn't a geek. And I even
intimidate ge
ishment as it is (medical diet).
Greenie: semi-inactive. I do what I can within the life I have.
Hippie: nope.
Queer: I'm bi. Everyone thinks I'm queer...
Geek: absolutely. (Though working at Netizen I start to wonder
if I'm really as geeky as I thought.)
Jenn V.
--
"We
.
But we didn't 'date'. Roleplayed, talked (and fought) computers,
saw the occasional good film (Labyrinth, when it first came out)
but didn't date.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
outs (down here, at least) apparently
tend to be very smoke. My bi and lesbian friends refuse to take me.
(I have trouble with two or three people smoking in a ventilated room.
Severely sensitive to it.)
(Yes, I did wind up with gay friends. And a couple of them know
computers!)
Jenn V.
--
"
her Melbourne-folk on this list. :)
Lets make Melbourne an enclave of Linux-wielding hippie geek
vegan dykes - and those who don't quite fit that description.
(linux-wielding hippie geek vegan males are welcome too. And
those who don't quite fit...)
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the
made me cry. Not bad-crying, but 'someone else knows
how it feels' crying.
Yes. Exactly. That's what it is. That's me.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall. http
Rik Hemsley wrote:
> Jenn V. wrote:
> > The same as for a bi women. Bi or bisexual.
>
> That's crap though. We need two new words, one for bi women, one for
> bi men. Then make everyone in the world aware of them and they move
> into common use. Reckon that can be don
ormal font size settings".
Raises her hand. Me. That'd include me!
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/
Jenn Vesperman[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.simegen.com/~jenn
[EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.linuxchix.org
.." if necessary.
Or I take him aside privately at lunchtime and tell him what he's
doing. Depends on how I'm feeling, and suchlike.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
e there annoys me to no end.
Religion != Christianity. I'm not christian. I am religious.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/
Jenn
is a "sense of wonder"
> > apprehension of the infinite complexity which is entirely built upon the
> > basis of 1 and 0.
Yup. Or the sense of wonder at the infinite complexity built on
protons, neutrons and electrons...
Or the sense of wonder at colour...
Or at ..
J
Hm.
I just thought of an answer for the last question ('how do you
justify linuxchix?').
'I justify it the same way I justify any Open Source project:
I perceived a need, and I created something to fill that need.'
... thoughts?
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing
quire them to be comfortable around
computers.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Freefall. http://www.purrsia.com/freefall/
Jenn Vesperma
tivation to carry the motivations further.
Um. 'Our' position is that we want to stop _QUASHING_ this spark.
BTW. Your mails are datestamped 1994. :)
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
g. The shoes, the long
fingernails, the hobbleskirts, the fragile stockings - they all add up, to
me, to the idea 'Hey, look! I'm so rich my wife doesn't have to do a
thing'.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This
won't get it in a 'logical' relationship - but in ANY relationship, that
headiness goes away quickly. Solid, stable love is a deeper, quieter
feeling - and yes, I have that with Dancer. And at any time, I can close my
eyes and reach for it, and be overwhelmed by it.
> Some
ne! Take heart from the fact that the women's networks DO
exist. They're proof that you can get your networks in place.
Jenn V.
--
"We're repairing the coolant loop of a nuclear fusion reactor.
This is women's work!"
Helix, Free
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