Re: [RE-wrenches] Breaker trip

[RE Ellison]

Maybe I making an assumption here that I shouldn’t but I hope you don’t mean 
that you had moved the breaker to the battery box on the inside?

If you ever been in a dark room when one of those did it’s job it’s really 
impressive and you sure don’t want it in the battery box if it ever has to trip 
in anger!

Bob Ellison 

> On Dec 6, 2017, at 12:20 PM, ga...@solarindependence.com wrote:
> 
> Mac,
> I had 2 midnite charge controllers trip breakers and eventually fail the 
> charge controllers on a Magnum system, moved the battery breaker from the 
> battery positive bus direct to the batteries and problem went away.
> 
>> On 2017-12-06 05:18, Mac Lewis wrote:
>> Hello wrenches,
>> I've got a mysterious breaker tripping that I need some ideas on how to fix.
>> Original system:
>> Array 6 x 235W Kyocera modules
>> 1 x Outback FM60 charge controller
>> 1 x Magnum MS 4024 PAE inverter
>> Upgraded system we stacked a second inverter to accommodate an air
>> compressor:
>> Array 6 x 235W Kyocera modules
>> 1 x Outback FM60 charge controller
>> *2 x Magnum MS 4024 PAE inverter*
>> There have been no changes to the solar array, just to the inverter side of
>> the system.  We have been getting intermittent breaker tripping (a couple
>> of weeks between) on the battery breaker side of the charge controller.
>> The basics have been checked and rechecked.  Torque is good on all sides of
>> the breaker all the way to the battery bussing.
>> The only thing that I can think of is that during a surge on the AC side
>> its sucking enough current out of the charge controller caps to trip this
>> breaker occasionally.
>> Has anyone experienced this?  The only way I can see to fix it is to go
>> with a larger breaker ampacity, but maybe there is something better.  Does
>> anyone no how quickly the max current setting in the Outback can respond,
>> would dropping this help?
>> Thanks
>> --
>> Mac Lewis
>> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] has anyone ever had this happen?

[RE Ellison]

Sounds like a shaft but no mine involved !

Can you get your money and have it clear before it ships ?

I understand that doesn’t even work with credit cards and a bogus cashiers 
check is a possibility

Just some thoughts,
Bob

> On Jan 23, 2018, at 1:48 PM, jay  wrote:
> 
> 
> HI All,
> 
> I’ve had a large company want to do a project and they want me to invoice it 
> as follows.  They said it had to do with knowing the cost of the system, but 
> that doesn’t seem right to me. Now I don’t want to get screwed here, and it 
> sure seems that could happen.
> 
> I’m pretty sure I know what you all will say, but I feel like I needed to get 
> a bit of a reality check.  
> As I mostly do projects on a handshake, dealing with large companies isn’t 
> too common for me.
> 
> 
> 1. give them wholesale pricing ( line item by item)
> 2. add margin, but small one is all they’ll accept
> 
> Project is an off grid, no permits, in Mexico, remote site and pretty big:  
> 16kw inverter, 9kw PV, etc.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> jay
> 
> peltz power
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Is there a charge controller do this?

[RE Ellison]

I have built several DC chargers using various forms of control basically 
before the MX 60 and the classic were available

What would happen is you had to control their upper limits with something 
either a dump load or if all else failed a rheostat and constant attention!
it would just run the keep running the voltage higher and higher I was doing it 
on 12 and 24 V battery banks

You have to have a way to limit it or you would overvoltage the bank seriously

There used to be a unit called the incharge, I believe trace originally built 
it but it’s no longer available
I played with one it was a bear to program all magnetic switches and everything 
had to be done in order and if you got anything out of place you had to go back 
to the start and start all over again.
It was more aggravation than my meager mind wanted to tolerate.

Just more thoughts,
Bob Ellison

> On Sun, Jan 28, 2018 at 9:23 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>> Hello wrenches,
>> 
>> I'm working on 3 off-grid telecom sites.  They are designed to operate solar 
>> only under most conditions but the project manager ordered a custom-built 48 
>> VDC generators, intended to be used as the battery charger/backup power for 
>> the site.  These are ~20 kW generators, and can probably do about ~350Adc at 
>> 48 Vdc at the elevation that these are sited.  The battery banks are 4 x 
>> 1000 Ahr GS Nanocarbon 48 battery strings and can gobble up the 350Adc 
>> easily when they are discharged.
>> 
>> While discussing the generator operation with the generator supplier, we 
>> have found this generator isn't capable of charge control, or limiting its 
>> own output.  The charge control functionality isn't necessary at this site 
>> because we really just need it to keep things online until the sun returns, 
>> a simple 54 VDC float voltage would work.  However, without the generator 
>> being able to self-limit its output, we expect this generator to stall when 
>> started because it can't regulate its output current and will immediately 
>> become overloaded by the discharged batteries.
>> 
>> I am trying to come up with some options to rectify this serious design 
>> issue.  One idea that immediately came to mind was putting in some parallel 
>> solar charge controllers between the DC generator output and the battery 
>> bank.  If the generator output could be dialed up to around 60-70 VDC, could 
>> parallel solar charge controllers be used for charge regulation?  It would 
>> be kind of like charging a 48 V battery bank from a 70 V battery bank.  MPPT 
>> isn't applicable, could the max current limit in the charge controller(s) be 
>> used to regulate charge rate?  Will the charge controllers blow up?  If not, 
>> what brand might work.  Each site has 8 x Midnite Classic 150s but I'm open 
>> to other manufacturers if it would work.  I am open to blowing up a charge 
>> controller in the shop but I thought it best to ask first.
>> 
>> What are other ways to put this generator to use, and limit its load?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks for your input/comments
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mac Lewis
>> 
>> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting on rock

[RE Ellison]

If you could get a well driller with a sense of humor you could put a hole in 
that you could mount a pole the other option is use a DPW ground mount and 
drill and anchor it in the four spots where is the feet sit

Bob ellison

But you will have to run ground wire to someplace to get a good ground

> On Apr 12, 2018, at 9:27 AM, Aaron Mandelkorn  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I have a customer that requires a mounting option I have yet to encounter.  
> His site sits on top of of a massive hill of granite.  It is relatively flat. 
>  Are there any mounting options that could work here?  We are only talking 
> about (12) to (16) modules for an off grid array.  Is there anything that can 
> bolt to rock?  I typically use dpw or Mt solar pole mounts but can't imagine 
> how these options could work.  Any thoughts? 
> 
> Aaron Mandelkorn
> President / Founder
> Renewable Energy Outfitters
> www.reosolar.com
> Off Grid Depot
> www.offgridnow.com
> 970-596-3744
> 
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting on rock

[RE Ellison]

On a roof ground mount you just need four holes the front one should be 
relatively level if you have to shim them with concrete or something or even 
steel plates that would work

The rears are adjustable legs so it’s no issue

Look at DPW roof ground mount you’ll see what I mean

Bob


> On Apr 12, 2018, at 9:53 AM, Aaron Mandelkorn  wrote:
> 
> Thanks all.  The flange plate was what I was thinking.  It may be to 
> difficult to level a ballast mounting roof system.  Engineering may be a 
> little difficult I assume?
> 
> Aaron Mandelkorn
> President / Founder
> Renewable Energy Outfitters
> www.reosolar.com
> Off Grid Depot
> www.offgridnow.com
> 970-596-3744
> 
>
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 7:46 AM Mac Lewis  wrote:
>> Hi Aaron,
>> 
>> Granite is a great substrate to mount to (once it's done). You could weld a 
>> large flange plate onto the bottom of your pole, and bolt it to the granite 
>> using anchor bolts. Rock climbers (including myself) drill into granite all 
>> of the time.  Bosch, among others, has a great drill and bit setup that 
>> works well. Glue in epoxies are a great way to keep moisture out of the hole 
>> for many years.
>> 
>> Ballast racks are available too but it seems like a shame not to attach to 
>> the granite in some way.
>> 
>> Good luck
>> 
>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 7:28 AM Aaron Mandelkorn  wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I have a customer that requires a mounting option I have yet to encounter.  
>>> His site sits on top of of a massive hill of granite.  It is relatively 
>>> flat.  Are there any mounting options that could work here?  We are only 
>>> talking about (12) to (16) modules for an off grid array.  Is there 
>>> anything that can bolt to rock?  I typically use dpw or Mt solar pole 
>>> mounts but can't imagine how these options could work.  Any thoughts? 
>>> 
>>> Aaron Mandelkorn
>>> President / Founder
>>> Renewable Energy Outfitters
>>> www.reosolar.com
>>> Off Grid Depot
>>> www.offgridnow.com
>>> 970-596-3744
>>> 
>>>
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[RE-wrenches] Chevy Bolt

[RE Ellison]

I have a customer with a 20-year-old modified sine wave inverter that has been 
no issue at all until recently when he arrived from New York City with his 
Chevy bolt

Obviously the Bolt will not tolerate the modified sine wave and we’re 
discussing upgrading and we were wondering if the magnum inverter charger would 
work in this situation? 

Thought that I would check with the knowledge base !

Thanks
Bob Ellison
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Chevy Bolt

[RE Ellison]

My apologies Bob been using it for years ! 

but not many of them left anyway

Bob

> On Apr 24, 2018, at 10:35 AM, Bob-O Schultze  wrote:
> 
> Krikey!
> Can we all please stop using the term “modified sine wave”? It’s just 
> marketing BS and y’all know it. Anyone who has looked at that waveform on an 
> oscilloscope can plaining see that it is a modified square wave. When we use 
> the BS marketing term we are lying to our clients and to ourselves.  
> 
> Bob-O
> 
> On Apr 23, 2018, at 11:33 AM, RE Ellison  wrote:
> 
> I have a customer with a 20-year-old modified sine wave inverter that has 
> been no issue at all until recently when he arrived from New York City with 
> his Chevy bolt
> 
> Obviously the Bolt will not tolerate the modified sine wave and we’re 
> discussing upgrading and we were wondering if the magnum inverter charger 
> would work in this situation? 
> 
> Thought that I would check with the knowledge base !
> 
> Thanks
> Bob Ellison
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Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs

[RE Ellison]

I always recommend grounding the metal roof also, even without panels on them.
 most of the sealing methods we use can insulate the rack from the roof
S5 type clamps being an exception

Just a couple thoughts from an overheated brain !

Bob Ellison

> On Jun 17, 2018, at 1:46 PM, "glenn.b...@glbcc.com"  
> wrote:
> 
> We use the Ilsco SGB-4 ground lug on every pan under the array for 
> residential systems.
> 
> -Glenn
> 
> Sent from my Verizon LG Smartphone
> 
> -- Original message--
> From: AE Solar
> Date: Sun, Jun 17, 2018 12:29 PM
> To: RE-wrenches;
> Cc:
> Subject:[RE-wrenches] grounding on metal roofs
> 
> wrenchers,
> what methods are you all using for grounding on metal roofs? thanks
> adam
> 
> Adam Katzman
> Autonomous Energies
> PO Box 1245
> Kingston, NY 12402
> www.autonomousenergies.com
> (518) 567-1468
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum

[RE Ellison]

Probably not the brightest move just to shut down websites that you’ve had for 
years ?

 You think with the company that size at least they were just redirect them and 
keep them open it’s not like it’s a ton of money

Just my .02 worth
Bob Ellison

> On Jul 11, 2018, at 2:39 PM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Just pressed the flesh at the Sensata booth. What you report is a web glitch 
> that they are aware of and is supposed to be very temporary. 
> 
> William 
> 
> PS:  The web address has changed to www.magnum-dimensions.com
> 
> Wm
> 
> 
>> On Jul 10, 2018, at 7:37 PM, RM You  wrote:
>> 
>> Anybody know what’s up with Magnum Energy/ Sensata? I’ve been trying to get 
>> on their website both through direct magnumenergy.com links and through 
>> Sensata and there is no Magnum Energy website any more. Did I miss something 
>> here…? Hope not. The data site is still up but all the other links just show 
>> a 404 error.
>> 
>> Ron
>> earthRight Solar
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 5 battery strings

[RE Ellison]

Number 4 wire is definitely a problem if it’s anywhere near normal battery 
voltage

And if the batteries have essentially never been used you gotta wonder if 
they’re going to be any good anyway?

Or did I miss something ?

Bob Ellison



> On Jul 24, 2018, at 9:40 AM, Dave Tedeyan  wrote:
> 
> Thank you all for the ideas and suggestions. This person in particular had #4 
> wire for the battery connections, 
> so they are all getting replaced with anyway. So it seems like rewiring to a 
> busbar with fuses will be the way to 
> go. And although not ideal to have so many strings, this will be more cost 
> effective than just getting a whole new 
> battery bank right off the bat when they have 10 batteries that have 
> essentially never been used.
> 
> Cheers,
> Dave
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Dave Tedeyan
> Senior Engineer
> 
> Taitem Engineering, PC
> 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
> Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
> www.taitem.com
> 
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 8:50 PM, Glenn Burt  wrote:
>> Hi Christopher,
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I buy my copper buss material from McMaster Carr in appropriate dimensions 
>> for the current I am expecting.
>> 
>> I then cut it to the lengths I need, drill for appropriate size fasteners 
>> and use 2 layers of heat-shrink tubing to protect the exposed bar.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Hope this helps.
>> 
>> -Glenn
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
>> Chris Schaefer
>> Sent: Monday, July 23, 2018 2:28 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches 
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 5 battery strings
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> What source are you all using for buss bars for these multiple battery 
>> string set ups?
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Christopher
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Mon, Jul 23, 2018 at 2:16 PM,  wrote:
>> 
>> Separate out the individual series strings and run each string to a buss bar 
>> setup.  Remember it isn't just resistance differences between batteries but 
>> resistance difference between cells as well.  In a setup like the existing 
>> one the resistance differences can really add up and if one battery fails 
>> the entire system will be offline.  Running each string to a positive and 
>> negative common buss bar means you can remove individual strings without 
>> disrupting the entire storage and the system can continue operating.  Also, 
>> it means the only resistance issues of substance are within individual 
>> series pairs not the entire interconnected bank.
>> 
>> I ran 10 series pairs of 12v AGM batteries, each pair to a common buss and 
>> it was the longest lasting, most stable battery bank I had.  That was years 
>> ago and now it would require fusing each string but for longevity and 
>> stability it is the best bet.
>> 
>> Tom
>> 
>> On 2018-07-23 03:56, Dave Tedeyan wrote:
>> 
>> Since we are on the topic of bad battery practices...
>> 
>> I may be fixing up a system that was both designed and installed very
>> poorly.
>> They have a 24V Outback VFXR inverter, and ten 12V AGM batteries wired
>> into
>> 5 parallel strings. I know that is a bad idea, but since they already
>> have the
>> equipment, are there any safety issues by re-using this equipment? It
>> is for a
>> grid tie battery backup system that will remain in float most of the
>> time. I assume
>> that the batteries will not last particularly long, but is there any
>> harm in using them
>> and then just getting new batteries once they fail?
>> 
>> Stringing is shown in the attached picture.
>> Cheers,
>> Dave
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> Dave Tedeyan
>> 
>> SENIOR ENGINEER
>> 
>> TAITEM ENGINEERING, PC
>> 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882
>> Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6
>> www.taitem.com [1]
>> 
>> Links:
>> --
>> [1] http://www.taitem.com/
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>>  
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>> --
>> 
>> Chris Schaefer’s
>> 
>> Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 
>> 5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
>> www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, 
>> "democracy"

Re: [RE-wrenches] Forced air Furnace

[RE Ellison]

If you relatively open floor plan I have been using the monitor heaters another 
one is the toyo brand
They get burning air from outside and exhaust outside warming the incoming air 
at the same time
They run on K1 kerosene and are very efficient 
They are a phantom load but what they save in fuel used over a standard furnace 
is very very considerable
Seems I remember that used to be 650 W to start for a few minutes and then 115 
W to run

I have several customers using them with good results
Mine cut my fuel use by about 150 gallons a year to just about 275 gallons a 
year
No inspectors have a problem with them in this area.
Your inspector may vary, like mileage statements !

Bob Ellison

> On Aug 28, 2018, at 11:32 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>  wrote:
> 
> Drake, look at home depot for the Empire brand of small wall furnaces. They 
> use zero power (old style thermo like a water heater) and can be legal as 
> primary source of heat for building code. They vent out a wall and are very 
> easy. Many of my clients use them to get legal and then use wood heating. 
> Good luck!
> 
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
>> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 16:36:45 -0400, Drake 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Wrenches,
>> 
>> What is the best choice for a propane, forced air furnace for an off grid 
>> house? We would prefer one that doesn't have a phantom load, although the 
>> transformer for the thermostat may not be avoidable. Low blower current 
>> would be preferable. The furnace AC will be powered by a Magnum 4448 PAE.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Drake 
>> 
>> Drake Chamberlin
>> Athens Electric LLC
>> OH License 44810
>> CO License 3773
>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV 
>> 740-448-7328
>> http://athens-electric.com/
> -- 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Forced air Furnace

[RE Ellison]

Here in northern New York fuel oil deliveries are a fact of life
They can put you in auto delivery or you can order as you need it 
Home heating oil = diesel with fewer taxes here
K1 kerosene is much cleaner, actually clear
In this state they dye it for tax reasons
Don’t get caught with it in a diesel truck tank ! The state will bend you over 
bad 

Easy to get delivered and use

Bob

> On Aug 29, 2018, at 2:00 PM, Dan Fink  wrote:
> 
> Do people fill up their tanks with 5 gallon jugs of it hauled home in the 
> back of their pickup trucks? That doesn't sound very safe. Or is there some 
> sort of kerosene delivery truck that makes the rounds?
> No such thing exists here on the Colorado Front Range that I know of.
> 
> Dan Fink
> Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for: 
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
> NABCEP Associate
> 
> 970.672.4342
> 
>  
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Aug 28, 2018 at 10:25 AM RE Ellison  wrote:
>> If you relatively open floor plan I have been using the monitor heaters 
>> another one is the toyo brand
>> They get burning air from outside and exhaust outside warming the incoming 
>> air at the same time
>> They run on K1 kerosene and are very efficient 
>> They are a phantom load but what they save in fuel used over a standard 
>> furnace is very very considerable
>> Seems I remember that used to be 650 W to start for a few minutes and then 
>> 115 W to run
>> 
>> I have several customers using them with good results
>> Mine cut my fuel use by about 150 gallons a year to just about 275 gallons a 
>> year
>> No inspectors have a problem with them in this area.
>> Your inspector may vary, like mileage statements !
>> 
>> Bob Ellison
>> 
>>> On Aug 28, 2018, at 11:32 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Drake, look at home depot for the Empire brand of small wall furnaces. They 
>>> use zero power (old style thermo like a water heater) and can be legal as 
>>> primary source of heat for building code. They vent out a wall and are very 
>>> easy. Many of my clients use them to get legal and then use wood heating. 
>>> Good luck!
>>> 
>>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
>>> text 209 813 0060
>>>> On Thu, 23 Aug 2018 16:36:45 -0400, Drake 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Wrenches,
>>>> 
>>>> What is the best choice for a propane, forced air furnace for an off grid 
>>>> house? We would prefer one that doesn't have a phantom load, although the 
>>>> transformer for the thermostat may not be avoidable. Low blower current 
>>>> would be preferable. The furnace AC will be powered by a Magnum 4448 PAE.
>>>> 
>>>> Thank you,
>>>> 
>>>> Drake 
>>>> 
>>>> Drake Chamberlin
>>>> Athens Electric LLC
>>>> OH License 44810
>>>> CO License 3773
>>>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV 
>>>> 740-448-7328
>>>> http://athens-electric.com/
>>> -- 
>>>  
>>>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers

[RE Ellison]

Amazing what the difference of $10.00 a watt to a $1.00 a watt for panels makes 
in the design !
Still don’t like poking holes in a perfectly good roof !

Just another set of random thoughts,
Bob Ellison

> On Sep 7, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> Allan;
> 
> That's the same math I've done, and tracking off grid just doesn't pencil 
> much of the time  There is software that can model tracking vs fixed. If you 
> run these calcs and pay attention to the critical winter months, its just not 
> there.  Also even when tracking might be a consideration, most people do not 
> have a dawn to dusk perfect solar window, so shading starts reducing the 
> benefits as well.  I found it hard enough to not shade a fixed array, so 
> tracking is certainly not adding much in a tight valley with trees. 
> Its funny how my designs have shifted from tracking back in the 80s and 90s, 
> to fixed pole mounts set due south with adjustable tilt, to now I'm running 
> PV Watts and seeing that roof mounts at imperfect tilt and azimuth can still 
> have the most energy for the money: Just add more modules.
> That's funny too, because if you had shown me a roof array like that 20 years 
> ago, I would have been poo pooing it for days.(That's not even close to 
> south!!...)  Our racking and tracking choices have changed significantly now 
> that PV is under $1/ watt. 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>> On 9/6/18 9:06 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
>> What am I missing here, Bill? If the tracker costs $10,000 (plus 
>> installation) to carry 24 modules, that's $416 per module, which is more 
>> than the cost of the modules themselves. I don't get the point of doing 
>> this. It almost sounds like consumer vanity - "Folks do like to watch the 
>> slow dance of the modules". 
>> How can tracking be justified?
>> 
>> Allan Sindelar
>> Sindelar Solar
>> 505 780-2738
>> 
>> On Sep 6, 2018, at 1:26 PM, Bill Hennessy  wrote:
>> 
>>> Chris--
>>> 
>>> We installed two 24-module AllEarth dual-axis trackers at the request of a 
>>> homeowner two years ago--"I like companies that are from Vermont."
>>> inspite of a higher cost as compared to a ground mount equivalent w Krinner 
>>> groundscrews.
>>> 
>>> You can buy either the tracker alone or complete kits. The 24-module 
>>> tracker is about $10,000. The concrete base was fairly easy to install. I 
>>> think the hole was 4x4x4 with rebar crosshatch. The frame is assembled on 
>>> the ground and lifted to the pole (you need about a18-foot lift). Our mini 
>>> excavator was barely tall enough. We did the frame layout and assembly on 
>>> the excavator trailer and it worked well. If you go to Vermont, they have a 
>>> free two-day training program where you assemble a tracker.
>>> 
>>> One of the trackers had an early issue with a stuck hydraulic valve. 
>>> Warranty service was prompt and knowledgeable and we haven't had issues 
>>> since. We did have to upsize the Fronius inverters. My design mistake. I 
>>> typically oversize the array to the inverter, but in the spring, the arrays 
>>> were always clipping. 
>>> 
>>> Folks do like to watch the slow dance of the modules.
>>>  
>>> Bill Hennessy
>>> Berks Solar, LLC
>>> 371 Centennial Rd
>>> Mertztown, PA 19539
>>> 
>>> o 610 682 4300
>>> c 484 560 4666
>>> NABCEP certified installer
>>> PA contractor #44411
>>> www.berkssolar.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: "ch...@oasismontana.com" 
>>> To: 'RE-wrenches'  
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2018 3:37 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers
>>> 
>>> Hi Folks:  I appreciate the input but I am looking for TYPES of trackers 
>>> that you may be selling (and yes, I told him about adding more & cheaper 
>>> solar modules than investing in a tracker, but it’s the customer’s  
>>>decision).  Zomeworks is not what the client wants; 
>>> I would prefer dual axis; the customer’s in north central CA with a good 
>>> resource.  I say go with Array Technologies but I would think there must be 
>>> something new and improved by now.
>>>  
>>> --Chris Daum/Oasis Montana
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
>>> Dana
>>> Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:18 AM
>>> To: 'RE-wrenches' 
>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trackers
>>>  
>>> I second this observation.
>>>  
>>> I now live again off grid in a narrow N-S canyon in south central Idaho. 
>>> Having limited ground space [thanks to county regs] & not wanting roof 
>>> mounted arrays to have to clear snow from, trackers VS. fix top of pole 
>>> mounts enhance my output & they reduced the # of modules required for my 
>>> homes projected load design.
>>>  
>>> 6400 watts rated output on 2 Array Tech tracking arrays. Fixed would have 
>>> required 3 arrays & 6-8 more modules. Trackers are programed to full 
>>> vertical in winter to shed overnight snow dumps, this saves time & effort 
>>> in the morning when it’s a Powder day! Can’t miss those Powder mornings.
>>> 5400 watts per hour in the summer when hot.
>>> Up to

Re: [RE-wrenches] Pika

[RE Ellison]

Agreed, use long term off grid manufacturers gear, I can’t recommend 
reinventing the wheel.
3 am phone calls suck !

Bob ellison

> On Sep 7, 2018, at 1:23 PM, Ray  wrote:
> 
> I would highly recommend using proven equipment from the long term off grid 
> companies: Magnum, Midnite, Outback, Schneider, etc. and stick with a DC 
> coupled array and lead acid batteries for now.  I just got back from 
> inspecting two Li+ off grid systems done by a GT dealer, and I saw numerous 
> issues that included the charge controllers not agreeing with the BMS system, 
> the BMS system monitoring having numerous programming and connectivity 
> issues, the battery overall being vastly undersized, the manufacturer (Adara) 
> dropping support for their battery, and the customers being hopping mad.  
> Most off grid folks own guns; not a good combination to walk into.
> My advice, is that if an installer hasn't lived off grid and/ or dedicated 
> their practice to off grid systems, they should stay out of it and quit 
> ruining peoples' lives.  GT is usually never a life or death matter, but Off 
> grid can be, when they are snowed in with no fridge, no water, no heat, and 
> no communications.  Reliability is goal #1, Simplicity is #2. 
> Good Luck,
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>> On 9/7/18 11:03 AM, Kristopher Schmid wrote:
>> Wrenches,
>> 
>> I am trying to design a Pika off-grid system.  The issue is that they 
>> currently have no way to charge from a generator.  Has anyone ever installed 
>> one set up for zero grid export and connected the generator to the grid 
>> input?  
>> 
>> Would LG chem or another manufacturer be a better choice?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Kris
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace Replacement?

[RE Ellison]

I think the reason the older systems lasted so long compared to the newer ones 
is load control and generally a large battery bank  so they were not cycled to 
death

I also suspect the newer inverters are not as “tough” for lack of a better 
description

I have a customer with a rebuilt SW 4024 in the box because he was unsure how 
the magnum inverters would hold up !

They are now 10 and going strong I guess he can stop worrying now !

Just random thoughts,
Bob ellison

> On Oct 8, 2018, at 10:50 AM, Michael Morningstar  
> wrote:
> 
> Replacing old SW’s has accounted for about half of my work load for the last 
> two or three years. When my clients have limited means and a single SW4024, I 
> install a MS4024 w/conduit box, and leave everything else intact. Often, when 
> dealing with really remote sites, I can have the client send me some pictures 
> of the “power wall” and I can make one trip out showing up with everything I 
> need too make the swap in an few hours. My service truck is stocked for every 
> contingency to do so. 
> 
> Dual inverters, I lean towards a pre-wired MS4024PAE Mini-Magnum power 
> center. That’s a pretty quick swap too.
> 
> When customers do have the means, or say it's is a new client who purchased a 
> place with a legacy system, then I just start from scratch, In that case I 
> specify Radians, either 4 or 8kws, because the Mate 3’s make my life so much 
> easier. I get calls all the time from folks who have Magnums and ME-ARC 
> controllers……….”How do I get back to %” Plus with the Mate 3, if these get 
> wonky, I can have the client send me pictures of the “Events” so Iknow what 
> were up against. Way more problems with Magnum reliability in the last few 
> years too.
> 
> The question I think about all the time is why is it that all my earlier 
> systems and those installed by others do so well. I mean, I have built 
> hundreds and hundreds of SW based systems with modest arrays with a great 
> success rate. Long battery life and minimal equipment failure. Nowadays I 
> feel like Im running around putting out fires and wasting my life on hold 
> waiting for “tech support”. I almost never see ten years with FLA’s.
> 
> I love it when I come across an Ananda power center, what a blast from the 
> past.
> 
> Michael
> 
>> On Oct 7, 2018, at 6:02 PM, Ray  wrote:
>> 
>> Greetings Esteemed Wrenches;
>> 
>> I have yet another customer whose 20+ yr old Trace SW inverter has flown off 
>> to inverter Nirvana.  I have replaced a few over the years and never quite 
>> solved the quandary of whether to replace the entire power board, or to 
>> retrofit a Magnum/ Outback in place of the SW, and keep the old Trace DC 
>> enclosure.  In this particular case, he has a pair of SW 4024s on an old 
>> Ananda power center. I'm considering taking the system to 48 v as well, 
>> since this will let us use the Magnum 4.4 kW inverters.  This however will 
>> also involve rewiring 20 yr old arrays of 50 and 75 watt modules..
>> What is the consensus on the best replacement practices on these legacy 
>> systems?  I have several out there with the clock ticking down.  My current 
>> idea is to just keep the Ananda and use Magnum's extension boxes to connect 
>> up the new MS 4448 inverters.  Its a tough call: I've replaced a few single 
>> SW installs and reused the Trace DC enclosure, and cursed working in those 
>> tiny boxes.  In other cases, I've put up a whole new system, but wondered if 
>> that was over kill too.  It seems to be a case of more field installation 
>> hours vs more equipment costs.
>> 
>> Sure be handy, if someone made an SW replacement kit, there are still a 
>> bunch of them out there.
>> 
>> As always, thanks for all your comments and ideas,
>> 
>> -- 
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Supporting heavy flooded batteries

[RE Ellison]

I get large 2 volt cells 230  to 250 pounds each and then connect them all 
together in a custom made case lined with glass board  (shower stall liner)

Most of the places I have to put them you could not put in a steel cased 
battery it just would not be physically possible

Picture 12 cells @ 230 # off the truck to the dock off the dock to the boat off 
the boat to the dock and up 16 steps that are 10 to 12” tall then a run 100 
yards uphill to the power building ?

Can’t do any of that with a steel cased battery ! Can hardly do it with single 
sells.

I don’t know if you can get HUPS uncased or not?
 Then assemble them on site ?

I don’t generally put them directly on the floor, I want some space under them 
but the case bottom is well supported

Just some thoughts
Bob ellison

> On Apr 4, 2019, at 12:50 AM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Ray:
>  
> I am setting the batteries up off the floor for these reasons:
>  
> 1.   I am trying to gain maximum ventilation.
> 2.   I rarely spill electrolyte, but if I do, I don’t want the steel cases 
> sitting in it.
> 3.   I haven’t figured out how to slide a 1700 pound battery across anything.
> 4.   With the proper arrangement of blocks, I can roll the tray right over 
> them with a pallet jack and lower it gently onto the blocks.
>  
> Wiliam
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Ray
> Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2019 8:25 PM
> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Supporting heavy flooded batteries
>  
> I put Fiber Reinforced Panel directly on the floor, and slide the battery on 
> that.  Why are you setting them up off the floor? 
> 
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
> On 4/3/19 6:08 PM, William Miller wrote:
> Jay:
>  
> Is this for one battery?  I presume you crane the battery into the cart and 
> then roll it into a battery box or enclosure…
>  
> I forgot to mention that steel is verboten unless it is lined with plastic.
>  
> William
>  
> Miller Solar
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com
> CA Lic. 773985
>  
> Quote of the day:  “If there is a job you hate, get really,
> really good at it. Maybe you will hate it less.“ W. Miller
>  
> From: jay [mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 3, 2019 5:06 PM
> To: William Miller; RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Supporting heavy flooded batteries
>  
> HI William,
>  
> Here is how I do big HUP type batteries.
> Metal frame, and wheels.  You can use either hi durometer synthetic or metal 
> wheels.
> This one the guy had powered coated
>  
> Jay
>  
> Peltz Power
>  
> 
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> 
> On Apr 3, 2019, at 3:05 PM, William Miller  wrote:
>  
> Friends:
>  
> For years we have been supporting large form-factor flooded battery trays by 
> setting them on pressure treat 4X4s. We have developed a cradle we bolt onto 
> a special-order, narrow pallet jack and roll them over the wood supports.  It 
> is not a seismic solution, but it works.
>  
> Just today I have learned that at least one large battery manufacturer is 
> recommending against using any form of wood, apparently due to the potential 
> for rot and/or conductive paths.  I am told that the solution is steel 
> racking with plastic covers over the steel.  
>  
> How are the rest of you supporting your large flooded batteries?
>  
> Thanks in advance,
>  
> William
>  
>  
> Miller Solar
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com
> CA Lic. 773985
>  
>  
> 
> 
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[RE-wrenches] Dead Outback mx60

[RE Ellison]

I’m a customer about three hours away with what I believe is a dead MX 60 about 
10 years old
He recently changed his own battery pack and I’m guessing that he did not shut 
off the breakers to the MX 60 when he disconnected the old pack
He says the screen is dead and it’s not charging and from conversation with him 
I believe him.
We’ve done cold resets and all the normal stuff so far.

Never had to get one of these repaired before, I understand outback doesn’t 
work on the older stuff

Is there somebody else that repairs these available ?

Thanks
Bob Ellison
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Dead Outback mx60

[RE Ellison]

That originally said “I have a customer” I hate auto correct and spell check

Bob

> On Jul 21, 2019, at 4:18 PM, RE Ellison  wrote:
> 
> I’m a customer about three hours away with what I believe is a dead MX 60 
> about 10 years old
> He recently changed his own battery pack and I’m guessing that he did not 
> shut off the breakers to the MX 60 when he disconnected the old pack
> He says the screen is dead and it’s not charging and from conversation with 
> him I believe him.
> We’ve done cold resets and all the normal stuff so far.
> 
> Never had to get one of these repaired before, I understand outback doesn’t 
> work on the older stuff
> 
> Is there somebody else that repairs these available ?
> 
> Thanks
> Bob Ellison
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 120/240 to 3 phase 120/208

[RE Ellison]

Not  internally unless it is what is called a 12 wire reconnectable
Those usually have info on the label that give specs and connection info

If you open the cover there is a group of posts and a bunch of wire ends that 
you move to the posts that give you the output you need

Heaven help you if the labels have fallen off or you can’t read them

In that case, close the cover and walk away because you will hate yourself at 
some point

The reconnectables are real rare in the smaller generators these days
If I remember correctly you generally lose about 40% output when you’ve change 
the connections, seems that is going from 3 ph to single phase.

I had a couple Detroit Diesel powered 300 hz generators around for a while 
Nothing but scrap metal and copper, not reconnectable.
Just dead weight.

Phase converters are not efficient but are an option for small loads 

Hope this helps,
Bob Ellison



> On Aug 6, 2019, at 10:59 PM, Mark Frye  wrote:
> 
> Years ago I used something called a RotoPhase Phase Converter to supply some 
> 3ph equipment on a site that only had 1ph (2ph?). Not efficient.
> 
>> On 8/6/2019 6:30 PM, Jay wrote:
>> Hi all
>> 
>> Is there a way to convert a 120/240v generator to a 120/208 3 phase output?
>> 
>> Thx
>> 
>> Jay
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Honda EU2000i output V adjustment - Magnum Energy

[RE Ellison]

I have used many older magnums with the 2000 W Honda‘s and the Harbor Freight 
version with no problems whatsoever

The key is to set the maximum charging down to under the limit of the inverter

I’m presently running a harbor freight 3500 W inverter generator it charges at 
70% and runs flawlessly

Best 600 bucks I ever spent

Bob ellison

> On Sep 24, 2019, at 12:39 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Dave,
> 
> I’m curious, can you describe the problem you had with a Magnum inverter and 
> the 2000i generator? Since Magnum was founded we have sold and installed 
> their inverters to customers using the 2000i, many hundreds of customers. Not 
> one has reported a problem. As long as you decrease the charge rate to about 
> 50% or less, they work flawlessly. 
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sep 24, 2019, at 8:30 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>  wrote:
> 
> We ended up usine a 50 foot #14 extension cord and the drop got the 2000i to 
> play nice with the magnum. Outback and Schneider have a much wider input 
> range and this was an older Magnum.
> 
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[RE Ellison]

Maybe somebody’s already got this thought in here I didn’t look that in-depth

Used to be a good suggestion was to get a couple magnums or heart interface 
inverters and use them strictly as a charger not an inverter

So the inverters you have can keep inverting the generator would feed the other 
inverters that are used strictly as chargers so the transfer switch does not 
function and you don’t get that instantaneous change when it crosses over with 
the transfer switch

Another advantages is if you have a problem you have inverters on site that you 
could wire over to to keep things going

Just a thought,
Bob Ellison

> On Apr 21, 2020, at 12:32 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure I follow. I would disconnect the generator AC2 input from the 
> existing quad XW system and move it to the external chargers. Or, I could 
> just turn the charging off by software config in the XWs.
> 
> If I were to buy four inverter/chargers to serve as "external" chargers for 
> the battery (any brand, really) I would just connect the generator input to 
> AC2 and the battery to the batt terminals of the four inverters. The AC1 
> input/output would have no connections. The inverter function would be turned 
> off and the charger function turned on. 
> 
> Again, this would be an expensive solution. I'm sure there are some companies 
> making high output DC chargers. I assume a 48V model will be able to go up to 
> 60V charging output, which would be plenty for my 51V nominal system. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 11:44 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>>  wrote:
>> 4 xw's need the external relay contactors not the internals, Right?
>> 
>> You will destroy the internals relays. If there was warranty still left, and 
>> there is not on 6048, you would need to scrap them for parts. Xw logs welded 
>> relay warnings and faults for warranty on all xw's.
>> 
>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
>> text 209 813 0060
>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:27:53 -0400, Jason Szumlanski 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping to 
>>> use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers to 
>>> reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think the 
>>> charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk charging 
>>> the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator. The 
>>> concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in during 
>>> the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge controllers.
>>>  
>>> The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good 
>>> load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup. 
>>> The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when 
>>> the switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I 
>>> need seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal 
>>> chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I 
>>> would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part 
>>> is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar 
>>> input. I need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need 
>>> 400Adc of charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I 
>>> don't really want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive 
>>> solution. 
>>>  
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>  
>>> 
 On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
  wrote:
 I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients. Get 
 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.
 
 Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
 
 "we go where powerlines don't"
 http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
 e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
 text 209 813 0060
 On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski 
  wrote:
 
 I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger suitable for a 
 LiPO battery with 2-stage charging and adjustable setpoints for max 
 current and battery voltage. It would require dual chargers with 100A 
 capacity (I want dual chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50% 
 capacity if one goes bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change 
 stages simultaneously, but I'm not sure if that's really important.
  
 Who makes something like that?
  
 Jason Szumlanski
  
  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Stand alone battery charger

[RE Ellison]

And also most battery chargers are not multi stage they’re big taper type 
chargers

They don’t charge nearly as efficiently or as well as a three stage inverter 
charger

Bob Ellison

> On Apr 21, 2020, at 12:32 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
>  wrote:
> 
> I'm not sure I follow. I would disconnect the generator AC2 input from the 
> existing quad XW system and move it to the external chargers. Or, I could 
> just turn the charging off by software config in the XWs.
> 
> If I were to buy four inverter/chargers to serve as "external" chargers for 
> the battery (any brand, really) I would just connect the generator input to 
> AC2 and the battery to the batt terminals of the four inverters. The AC1 
> input/output would have no connections. The inverter function would be turned 
> off and the charger function turned on. 
> 
> Again, this would be an expensive solution. I'm sure there are some companies 
> making high output DC chargers. I assume a 48V model will be able to go up to 
> 60V charging output, which would be plenty for my 51V nominal system. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Apr 21, 2020 at 11:44 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>>  wrote:
>> 4 xw's need the external relay contactors not the internals, Right?
>> 
>> You will destroy the internals relays. If there was warranty still left, and 
>> there is not on 6048, you would need to scrap them for parts. Xw logs welded 
>> relay warnings and faults for warranty on all xw's.
>> 
>> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
>> text 209 813 0060
>>> On Tue, 21 Apr 2020 08:27:53 -0400, Jason Szumlanski 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I actually need 400Adc at 51V nominal of total charge rate. I was hoping to 
>>> use 100Adc chargers for redundancy, or some combination of 2-8 chargers to 
>>> reach the needed current, assuming they can be synced up. I don't think the 
>>> charging algorithm needs to be complicated. We are basically bulk charging 
>>> the LiPOs to 80% with the battery BMS controlling the generator. The 
>>> concept is to get to 80% sometime in the night and solar kicks in during 
>>> the day to reach 100% using 2-stage charging from the XW charge controllers.
>>>  
>>> The problem I have is the quad XW6048s in the system run at a pretty good 
>>> load typically... often over 50%. This is off-grid with generator backup. 
>>> The transfer switches in the XW6048 are causing surges and brownouts when 
>>> the switched loads are high, especially smart dimmers and televisions. I 
>>> need seamless power for this client. My thought is to abandon the internal 
>>> chargers in the XW6048s and just run loads off inverter power full-time. I 
>>> would charge the batteries with external battery chargers. The tricky part 
>>> is how to adjust the charge rate based on load, and also based on solar 
>>> input. I need to limit the net charging current. Of course, I still need 
>>> 400Adc of charging current, which I'm learning might be hard to find. I 
>>> don't really want to buy four more XWs - that's a pretty expensive 
>>> solution. 
>>>  
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>  
>>> 
 On Fri, Apr 17, 2020 at 4:26 PM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
  wrote:
 I use the CSW 4048. It has a 50 amp charger. A good spare for clients. Get 
 2 of them. Repurpose an old Radian or XW well over 100A. XW+ is 140adc.
 
 Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
 
 "we go where powerlines don't"
 http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
 e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
 text 209 813 0060
 On Fri, 17 Apr 2020 14:21:14 -0400, Jason Szumlanski 
  wrote:
 
 I'm looking for a standalone 51V nominal battery charger suitable for a 
 LiPO battery with 2-stage charging and adjustable setpoints for max 
 current and battery voltage. It would require dual chargers with 100A 
 capacity (I want dual chargers for redundancy so I have at least 50% 
 capacity if one goes bad). Ideally they would sync up so they change 
 stages simultaneously, but I'm not sure if that's really important.
  
 Who makes something like that?
  
 Jason Szumlanski
  
  
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[RE-wrenches] SW4024

[RE Ellison]

Has anybody ever tried to charge a Chevy bolt with an SW 4024 ?

I don’t know if it would be happy with the way form or not and I’m hoping 
somebody has toyed with it !

Thanks
Bob Ellison
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Security cameras for off grid home: Who has a low wattage solution?

[RE Ellison]

Mick,

I hesitate to recommend the following but they will work and only draw 12
watts. I hate to because some of the reviews are horrible.

Harbor Freight has a 4 camera unit with a 500 gig HD it draws 12 watts on my
Brand power meter, on the AC side. I see no reason it could not  run battery
direct off a 12 volt battery, but the top voltages might be too much. But
hell if it is 12 watts AC who cares!

They are supposed to be connectable to an Ethernet for sending to a remote
computer but I have never done it. It comes with 4 cameras with "night
vision" don't bet on any distance.

 

This would allow them to shut off the computer ad save that power draw.

 

Wall mart has a similar unit that handles 8 cameras, I think it comes with
4.

 

I have a computer based system here and the battery draw is horrendous. I
will have one of these at some point, hopefully soon.

 

Just my thoughts,

Bob Ellison  

 

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mick Abraham
Sent: Tuesday, August 06, 2013 7:41 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Security cameras for off grid home: Who has a low
wattage solution?

 

Hello, all~

 

My client likes to watch what's going on at his remote cabin while he's
away. The problem is the energy impact on his battery system resulting from
the presently deployed system. 

 

+

 

They're running a Windows XP desktop computer, circa 2010. That has software
loaded which collects the video from about five cameras then the computer
sequences that data out beyond the firewall, through the satellite modem,
uplinked to Hughesnet then eventually can be viewed by my client far away. 

 

It's amazing this can work at all but just the computer box is ~100 watts
running, 24/7. The cameras are relatively low in their wattage demand, and
of course there's the satellite modem plus a router for the LAN "local area
network" which are also relatively low wattage. 

 

If we were attempting "energy triage", the satellite modem and LAN wifi
router are most justifiable in terms of their energy impact relative to the
benefit my client receives while at the cabin. The cameras are next most
justifiable but of course those are useless without some way to serve the
data, but the power demand for that computer is making me cranky...and we
don't want cranky. 

 

+

 

I think beginning with the Windoze operating system is one of the errors
here but of course the video software is built for that OS. Surely someone
sells a video streamer that's built from the ground up for this purpose and
maybe running Java or some other code that's more appropriate to this
solitary task. ...and surely that only needs a small percentage of the power
demanded by a full blown Windows box.

 

OK, I've done my part in describing the challenge. Now it's up to the crew
to name that product! Just kidding; I will do some more legwork but it's
often the case that the Wrenchies have already invented the wheel. 

 

The Wrench List is the Bomb! Thanks & Jolliness,

 

Mick Abraham, Proprietor
www.abrahamsolar.com

Voice: 970-731-4675

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s

[RE Ellison]

I would be more inclined to think it's because of a denser plate material in 
the larger batteries

I know surrettes need longer absorbs and I believe a bit higher of a charging 
voltage to remain happy

And I generally run the Trojan L16s Just a bit higher than normal




Bob Ellison

On Aug 7, 2013, at 3:33 PM, Allan Sindelar  
wrote:

> Eric,
> I kept this in my inbox for awhile, and finally had to ask - where did you 
> get this information? I have never heard this recommendation - to charge a 
> taller flooded lead acid battery to a higher voltage just because it's 
> taller. I guess I see the apparent logic - more gassing addresses a potential 
> for more stratification of the electrolyte - but if true, why have I never 
> seen this in any battery service guide? What's your source? And has anyone 
> else heard of this?
> Thanks, Allan
> 
> Allan Sindelar
> al...@positiveenergysolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder and Chief Technology Officer
> Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM
> 3209 Richards Lane
> Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
> 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell
> www.positiveenergysolar.com
>  
> On 7/16/2013 7:53 AM, eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Drake, 
>> The L16 is quite popular in RE apps...but they typically require a 
>> bit higher charge voltage to reach the correct SOC than their shorter 
>> counterparts (i.e. T105 golf cart), 
>> because they are a taller battery (stands to reason .specific 
>> "gravity"). Make sure they are in a vented enclosure if off-gassing will be 
>> an issue. 
>> Eric
>> _
>>  
>> 
>> Eric Bentsen  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   UNITED STATES  
>> |   Technical Support Representative 
>> Phone: +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001#  |   
>> Email: eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com  |   Site: 
>> www.schneider-electric.com/solar  |   Address: 250 South Vasco Rd., 
>> Livermore, CA 94551
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s

[RE Ellison]

Steve 
I appreciate your thoughts and don't disagree with them.
The last 20 years we've gone from panels that were $10 a watt To panels that 
are two dollars A Watt and cheaper!
It makes it easier for some poor guy off grid to buy enough panels to get the 
job done now.

It's still Tough where I am with maybe half an hour of sunlight average for two 
months out of the year.

And that can be June and July! Just kidding ! 

If you don't have a generator around here you're in the dark in the winter

Later,
Bob Ellison

On Aug 7, 2013, at 6:11 PM, Steve Higgins  wrote:

> Maybe, I’m overstepping here… but here goes.
>  
> In most off grid systems you are going to run just a tad bit hotter 
> voltage/time.  This is because most of the batteries that are sold into this 
> market were really designed and meant for Industrial applications.   The 
> industrial application assumes that you are pretty much charging the battery 
> with a stiff grid sourced current based charger every single night.
>  
> In most off grid systems the customer is slowly letting the battery fall to a 
> 25% or 50% DOD state of discharge before enabling a fossil fuel source to 
> bring the battery to full state. When these batteries are run at lower 
> state for a period of time they need a bit more voltage to remove the 
> sulfation that has developed on the plates.  
>  
> What I’ve found over the last year is many people are depending on way too 
> small of an array to get any battery bank charged, and of course are very 
> reluctant to use a genset to power an inverter to charge the batteries.   
> This leads to poor SG’s and eventual failure. 
>  
> It also amazes me with how many people don’t even own a hydrometer to check 
> the true state of charge on their battery.   Talked with a guy that has his 
> batteries for 5 years and has NEVER taken an SG measurement.
>  
>  
>  
> Steve Higgins
> Technical Services Manager
> M: +1.206.790.5840
> F: +1.902.597.8447
> Surrette Battery Company
> Exclusive manufacturer of
> 
> 
> 
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of RE Ellison
> Sent: Wednesday, August 07, 2013 2:29 PM
> To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s
>  
> I would be more inclined to think it's because of a denser plate material in 
> the larger batteries
>  
> I know surrettes need longer absorbs and I believe a bit higher of a charging 
> voltage to remain happy
>  
> And I generally run the Trojan L16s Just a bit higher than normal
>  
> 
> 
> 
> Bob Ellison
> 
> On Aug 7, 2013, at 3:33 PM, Allan Sindelar  
> wrote:
> 
> Eric,
> I kept this in my inbox for awhile, and finally had to ask - where did you 
> get this information? I have never heard this recommendation - to charge a 
> taller flooded lead acid battery to a higher voltage just because it's 
> taller. I guess I see the apparent logic - more gassing addresses a potential 
> for more stratification of the electrolyte - but if true, why have I never 
> seen this in any battery service guide? What's your source? And has anyone 
> else heard of this?
> Thanks, Allan
> 
> Allan Sindelar
> al...@positiveenergysolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional 
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder and Chief Technology Officer
> Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM
> 3209 Richards Lane
> Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
> 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell
> www.positiveenergysolar.com
> On 7/16/2013 7:53 AM, eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com wrote:
> 
> Hi Drake, 
> The L16 is quite popular in RE apps...but they typically require a bit higher 
> charge voltage to reach the correct SOC than their shorter counterparts (i.e. 
> T105 golf cart), 
> because they are a taller battery (stands to reason .specific "gravity"). 
> Make sure they are in a vented enclosure if off-gassing will be an issue. 
> Eric
> _
>  
> 
> Eric Bentsen  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   UNITED STATES  
> |   Technical Support Representative 
> Phone: +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001#  |   
> Email: eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com  |   Site: 
> www.schneider-electric.com/solar  |   Address: 250 South Vasco Rd., 
> Livermore, CA 94551
> 
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] 2500 W inverter for $300

[RE Ellison]

Do they have a charger or just a CCC inverter?

Harbor freight sells units like this. 

Unless they are a continuing customer or a friend, I would be inclined to
tell them good luck. 

PLEASE call someone else, asap!

 

 

We know how this story will end,

 

Bob

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 9:24 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] 2500 W inverter for $300

 

A couple of customers have found 2500 W inverters rated as true sine wave
for prices in the $300 range. My strong gut feeling is that they are junk,
but I have no experience with these. They feel the inverters from Outback,
Magnum etc are far overpriced.

What would you say to a customer who wanted to purchase one of the units?

Thanks,

Drake 


Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric LLC
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
NABCEP Certified PV
740-448-7328
http://athens-electric.com/ 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] 2500 W inverter for $300

[RE Ellison]

Try to get a make, model and a brand name and we will see what we can find
out about them.

 

Later,

Bob

 

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2013 12:55 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] 2500 W inverter for $300

 

At 11:08 AM 8/9/2013, you wrote:




Unless they are a continuing customer or a friend, I would be inclined to
tell them good luck. 

PLEASE call someone else, asap!

This is happening with continuing customers that are friends. What is needed
are some solid technical reasons to give them, but do to my lack of
experience with this stuff I have no data.

With so much being made in China now days, it is hard to argue convincingly
that an item is low quality because it was made there. I argue that we get
what we pay for, but some hard data is needed.

Can we say that these inverters are: 

*   less reliable? 
*   the true sine wave, waveform is not really so good? 
*   these units will burn their house down? 

When they can buy 4 or 5 of these for the price of a name brand sine wave
inverter, they could keep a spare unit on hand. It would be good to have
some hard data as to why they should get an Outback or a Magnum.

Thanks,

Drake

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Re: [RE-wrenches] UPS -1500w

[RE Ellison]

I assume the easy choice of changing the coffee pot isn't going to happen?

What inverter does it happen to be, Although sometimes weird stuff like this 
happens with inverters of all makes.

Back from my days of being an APC dealer most UPS's are modified square wave 

Bob ellison


Bob Ellison

On Aug 9, 2013, at 4:00 PM, All Solar  wrote:

> Looking for recommendations for a reliable UPS for a problem load that will 
> not run off the homes inverter
> The load is 1200 w max  120v
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> All Solar
> 
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mouse pee in the SW

[RE Ellison]

Thanks Dan,
That was an interesting read I thoroughly plan to never have to do that 
anything that I or my customers own !

Bob ellison


Bob Ellison

On Aug 16, 2013, at 8:11 AM, Exeltech  wrote:

> Bill,
> 
> My short answer is .. if things work after all this .. I wouldn't recommend 
> doing anything to the circuit board after cleaning it.  Instead, I'd take 
> steps to keep the mice from ever getting into the inverter again.
> 
> 
> Long answer...
> 
> Normally, circuit boards will have been coated with a conformal protective 
> material at the time of manufacture.  For those who may not know what 
> "conformal coating" is, it's a clear polymer liquid (usually silicone based) 
> that's applied to circuit boards, typically as a spray (like spray paint).  
> When dry, it forms a very durable polymer layer that's highly protective 
> against moisture, dirt, and moisture.  It's also very electrically resistant, 
> and is accepted by Underwriters Laboratories and other Nationally Recognized 
> Testing Labs as an insulating material.  However, unless the circuit board is 
> literally dunked in the liquid conformal material (not done for a variety of 
> reasons), there are always going to be areas on the circuit board (under 
> components, or the back-side of integrated circuit pins away from our view) 
> that are not covered by the conformal coating.
> 
> Even when conformal coating is well applied, urine can and will still sit on 
> top of the coating and form a conductive path to otherwise unprotected areas 
> of pins and leads.  This is what I suspect happened here.  Done properly, a 
> distilled water / alcohol bath combination will dissolve and remove these 
> unwanted conductive paths without harming the conformal coating.  A concern I 
> still have in this: there may be components on the circuit board that would 
> be damaged or otherwise affected by the water and/or alcohol.  Examples would 
> be transformers, switches, relays, etc..
> 
> Good quality conformal coating materials aren't affected by water or alcohol, 
> so this procedure is safe to use for cleaning purposes as long as none of the 
> electronic parts themselves would be affected.  Parts that have very small 
> distances between their pins, such as microprocessors and similar, are the 
> components most subject to unwanted conductive paths.
> 
> Another aspect of the circuit board to consider are where "through-hole" 
> parts are installed, such as relays or other components have leads that 
> penetrate through the circuit board.  Such parts can be very difficult to 
> fully seal with conformal coating because the spray simply doesn't penetrate 
> shadowed or hidden locations.
> 
> One still must be cautious in cleaning a circuit board, as it's possible the 
> water could penetrate the circuit board edges if it's not completely sealed, 
> and either liquid may affect parts on the circuit board itself.  As 
> mentioned, this procedure is only if the need is dire .. and replacement 
> isn't an easy option.
> 
> I'd also be concerned with static electricity issues.  I'd wager few if 
> anyone in the Wrench kingdom has the necessary static abatement protections 
> in place.  Static electricity can and does permanently damage components, and 
> you'll never know it happened - except the circuit no longer works.  Doesn't 
> take carpet either.  Did you know you can walk across a tile floor and build 
> up a static charge?  (The voice of experience here!)
> 
> 
> Bill .. to your question:
> Where would you apply the conformal coating?
> 
> First .. if it were me, and I were lucky enough to recover from a mouse-pee 
> episode, I'd not use Krylon for this purpose.  EVER.  In fact, I'd be 
> hesitant to use anything at all.  Instead, I'd take steps t protect the 
> hole(s) where the mouse got in so this never happens again.  If it's a vent, 
> use metal window screen cut to size, and attach the screen on the inside of 
> the enclosure with a quality silicone adhesive, making sure not to create any 
> electrical or other hazards in the process.  (Note I said "silicone 
> adhesive", not "silicone caulk" or "silicone seal".  There's a difference.)  
> Use fine-mesh screen.  Anything larger wont' work.  Mice are better than 
> Houdini at getting in and out of tight spaces.  (I've seen a mouse flatten 
> its body and squeeze through a louvered vent with less than 3/8 inch spacing.)
> 
> If you're still totally bent on trying to increase the protection on the 
> circuit board, use a genuine conformal material from a company such as MG 
> Chemicals, Tech Spray, or others.  It will be certified to a UL Standard for 
> the purpose.  Expect to pay $20-30 for a spray-paint sized can, and it won't 
> be available from any hardware store.  Buy it from Mouser, Digi-Key, or 
> similar sources.  Get the version with the UV "tattle-tale" built in.  That 
> way, when you spray the board, you can take it outside in bright sunlight and 
> see where the spray exists -

Re: [RE-wrenches] size of Surrette AGM S-460 Stud Terminals?

[RE Ellison]

Most of the ones I have run across are 3/8's

 

Bob

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Greg Egan
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2013 9:55 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] size of Surrette AGM S-460 Stud Terminals?

 

Wrenches,

I can find a pdf on Surrette's site and many other sites with the specs on
the S6-460 AGM but the part showing the size of the terminals is unreadable.
It's either 5/16th or 3/8" or some metric equivalent.  If anyone knows
exactly what it is - I'd like to know.  I honestly don't think the info is
available unless it's in  some restricted area of the Surrette site.  

Thanks!

Greg Egan
Nabcep PV Installer Certified
Journeyman Electrician
Remote Power Inc.

-- 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Who has the best overall solar racking solution?

[RE Ellison]

Check out USSolar mounts
A good looking tough product and good people

Bob ellison


Bob Ellison

On Sep 10, 2013, at 5:11 PM, Jay Peltz  wrote:

> Sub question/
> 
> Best ballasted flat roof rack?
> 
> Jay
> Peltz power
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Sep 10, 2013, at 1:04 PM, James Rudolph  wrote:
> 
>> Greetings Fellow Wrenchies,
>> With all the racking options out there today, are there any stand outs in 
>> terms of quality and installation time.
>> We are in the process of evaluating our racking system and with all the 
>> options its a little mind boggeling.
>> 
>> Mahalo in advance!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> James B Rudolph
>> Heleakala Solar 
>> Director of Construction
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
>> Licensed ES Electrician
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage

[RE Ellison]

Just have to pile on the stack, for lack of a better term.

 

I have had panels come in that had 6 panels shattered in the center of the
stack, something (like a fork) had touched them and shifted them so they
shattered from the weight on the glass.

 

I now pick them up at the dock and go thru the entire stack, then put on
corners made from 1x6"

boards and ratchet strap them together so they cannot shift.

They are not as expensive as they were 20 years ago or so, but the glass and
the profit is thinner on a panel these days, not to mention the frames.

 

It takes some time but is faster than fighting with the shipping companies
if I find it later after delivery!

 

I also once had a gas fridge come in with a fork lift hole in the center of
the side of the fridge!

How do you miss by that much?

 

Later,

Bob Ellison

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jason pozner
Sent: Monday, November 04, 2013 1:47 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hidden freight damage

 

Hey Luke,

Was it Saia??   We have had 2 claims this season as well.  Similar fork
issue.  One was a transfer from Saia to another freight company to us.
According to the driver, it arrived that morning  damaged on the dock and
they are obliged to deliver it regardless. The other directly from Saia.
One claim closed, and the other I believe is still open.  I think the
distributor had a bit of leverage with the shipper as to how it is handled.
We did catch it, and documented it with pics.  The other was completely
concealed as the fork damaged the pallet from below.  Even if we unwrapped
the shipment, you couldn't notice the damage until you lifted the bottom
module. Good lesson from ole Murphy I guess.  I just got hyper vigilant on
inspection, and noticing which shipper is bringing the damaged goods...  

 

  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3615/6806 - Release Date: 11/03/13

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Re: DC arc welder?

[RE Ellison]

I used to use a wire feed welder built off a custom GM "SI" series
alternator, it would put out 160 amps at full tilt boogie. I also used the
same alternator to charge my house batteries off a Honda 9hp engine when I
needed to get in a boost occasionally. Around here in the winter that is far
too often!

 

As far as welding on industrial batteries, that is how it is done, When I am
working on large packs that's how you install the straps as well as changing
cells or rebuilding posts in the field. 

 

Do you want to clear a room fast? Fire up a torch and walk over to a 40 cell
bank, the room clears, Like NOW! 

That's fine, you don't want them in there bothering you while you are
working anyway!

 

As a safety tip, you remove all the cell caps and fill each cell with oxygen
displacing any stray hydrogen. I use oxygen and propane for the actual weld.
It burns cleaner than acetylene and the less trash you get into the molten
lead the better for the connection. 

 

That is how it is done.

Quick Cable has some good videos on their web site showing the process.

 

Later,

Bob Ellison

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Saturday, November 23, 2013 3:53 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fwd: Re: DC arc welder?

 

Leave it to Windy to be about a generation ahead of the rest of us on all
things RE once again.  Cheers to Windy :-) 

I still own a Battery Weld 2000 from the 90s, which is a MIG machine that
runs on 24 v dc.   The limit is the battery.  It can blast at over 200 amps,
if you have enough battery to keep the voltage up.  I used to run a 18 v
golf cart battery string, so I wouldn't have to use the on board resistor
bank for lower amp welding.  My DC welds start getting messy about 12" into
the weld, as the battery voltage drops and changes the equation.  
If you're doing a lot of welding, I would use an AC machine and inverter, as
its much better controlled.  Just this week, I tested a Magnum 4024 PAE with
my Lincoln 180, 240 vac MIG machine.  The inverter could handle it, but once
again the batteries were the limit, and my experiment did not have enough
battery behind it to keep the inverter on for very long.  4 Golf cart
batteries would be the minimum.
My local industrial battery company has a carbon rod setup, and they short
the battery to weld the lead connectors to the battery posts.  That's the
preferred method for adding or removing lead connections at the battery
posts, although I'm not sure if OSHA would approve. They open all the
battery caps, so that they don't build up too much hydrogen to
explodeSketchy?  



R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 11/23/2013 11:38 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote:

Forwarding from Windy.


 Original Message 

Sure you can solar weld! Afterall, some of us have welded from battery power
when we preferred NOT to. 

 

   :0) <<  that's the HONK of a Solar Bozo (Emeritus)

 

But seriously, Back in the 1930's to 50's when thousands of farms and
ranches had wind power, 32V was the standard voltage for the 2-3kW systems.
Among the many tools and appliances available, it was common to have a 32V
welder. I used one of them back in the 70's. I was nothing but a box with a
coil in it. The coil wasn't for inductance, just for resistance. It was
steel wire maybe 1/8" thick with taps to give a choice of current. For max.
current, the coil would be completely out of circuit.

 

The guys I shared the shop with abandoned their buzz box 'cuz the DC was so
smooth.

 

Towers are still standing on welds I did in the late 70's using 6011 and
7013 rod (if I remember right).

 

I had a cell failure early on, and my system was 30, not 32V. Worked fine
for years. 

 

I'm quite sure 24V would work, at least for smallest rods. It certainly
works for MIG welding. Century made a 24V "Portable MIG" to use on 24V
diesel vehicles and farm machines for field repairs. They were made in 70's
and 80's. Nice, 'cuz they are light-weight / no transformer. I used one on
my PV system until I moved recently. I had 3-4V of line loss and it still
worked fine with .030 wire. Again, it has steel coils with taps for control.

 

If you want MIG, search for a Century Portable MIG. Otherwise, get the
smallest sticks and try 24V. I think I tried it, or heard that it's not
quite enough V. 36V is MORE than you need. If you do 36, use undersized
cable because you'll need resistance anyway!

 

Searching . 24V MIG is in remote storage with hen's teeth and unobtainium. 

but discussion at

http://forum.ih8mud.com/tools-fabrication/416445-snap-24v-portable-mig.html

confirmed that you can do stick with 24V.

AND somebody suggested this:

http://store.cyberweld.com/twsgspgun10.html

 

The spool gun looks like the modern way to solve the problem for
professional use. Reviews there say it doe

[RE-wrenches] Trojan L 16's

[RE Ellison]

For the off grid wrenches out there.

Has anybody noticed L16 G series batteries failing faster than normal?

I've got about three packs that were installed in 2009 and 2010
With existing customers that know how to maintain them and I'm having what 
seems to be higher than on what would be expected failure rates.

If they got 8, 9 or 10 years all of the previous pack there is no reason they 
shouldn't get the same out of the replacements. all things being equal no major 
changes

Wondering thanks, 
Bob Ellison
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Temperature Compensation calcs for wire

[RE Ellison]

Don’t we have to use the more restrictive one?

 

Bob Ellison

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William
Miller
Sent: Wednesday, January 22, 2014 7:32 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Temperature Compensation calcs for wire

 

Friends:

 

I try to be rigorous in application of NEC codes to everything I do,
including wire sizing.  I understand that even though I am using conductors
rated at 90°C, the breakers I use have terminals rated at 75°C so when
deriving the values for ampacity for a given gauge from the tables, I have
to use the 75°C column.

 

What is not clear, however, is which column I use when applying temperature
derating.  Table 315(B)(2)(b) has a column for 75 and a column for 90.  I am
using 90° wire.  The values for 90° are much more generous than the 75°
values and I would like to use them.  Which is correct?

 

As always, thanks to everyone on this list for all of the help and advice.

 

William

 

 

Gradient Cap

Lic 773985

millersolar.com  

805-438-5600

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Static shock

[RE Ellison]

Just wondering, does it happen at night ? Also, is the array grounded?
Dry ground is a tough one and concrete is an insulator.

Bob Ellison

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2014 8:57 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Static shock

Hi all,

Here is a new question. 
I believe it's static electricity. 

System:  standalone 2 x 44voc  165 watt modules in parallel Powering a pump
sq flex( yea installer didn't do it right) dry ground. 
No batteries or any other power in the area, no LCB or other electronics. 
Pole mount, dpw in concrete with galvy pole Wires are not attached to pole/
rack in any way It's been very low humidity 5-10%, with 10-20 mph wind No
rain totally dry

Here is what happened. 
Person with one hand touched pole and and other hand touched the USE-2
insulated wire from the modules, got way shocked. Checked the wire no cracks
etc and again 44voc max

Happened a second time, but this time his sleeve brushed the pole while he
was moving the wires, again shocked. 

Again, I think it's static as I have no other explanation. This kind of
weather is unknown where I live. I now live in a true desert vs a rain
forest and never moved. 

Thoughts?

Thanks

Jay

Peltz power 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP

[RE Ellison]

Sounds like there is a need for a bigger generator, my gut tells me there is 
almost enough (but not quite), with 12kw to almost max the chargers and nothing 
left to feed the other loads. 

I have found that “on paper” and reality do not always mix well.

Getting max theoretical charging capacity from solar and the generator at the 
same time is sometimes a tough nut to crack, although batteries seem to “like” 
the varying charge better than a steady max charge. That battery can probably 
absorb 420 amps as the charging max using the usual 3 stage charging we have 
with inverters, you’re not getting anywhere near enough to max them with that 
generator. Powering down all the chargers 30% or so (or 1 inverter totally) 
would help stop the breaker trips but slow the charging off the generator. Then 
you just need to pray for lots of sun.

Is the solar alone enough to power the loads in the normal day to day usage in 
a best case situation, or is this a case of the generator has to run to keep up?

 

Up here we have seen 1 sunny day in 3 weeks, we know about generator usage…..

 

I can’t speak on the HUP’s. I have never used them, but might they be somewhat 
hard to charge?

 

Just some thoughts, but it’s 3 am and I hope it makes sense in the morning when 
I reread it….

 

Later,

Bob

 

 

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of 
br...@willpowerelect.com
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 1:29 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP

 

Hi Larry,

 

I have an FNDC in the system. Manufacturer wanted 2 hour EQ before adding water 
to the new battery. We got that and had SG between 1.260 and 1.275 on all 24 
cells. Cells were very thirsty (shipped with electrolyte almost to the plates) 
and took 8.5 gallons between all cells. We aren't having much trouble getting 
voltage back up but SG is below 1.23 (within .01 on cells tested). Strategy at 
this point is to give a daily bulk and absorb and EQ every 3 or 4 days for 
extended times and monitor SG. Discontinue hard charging when SG plateaus. I 
generally shoot for c/10 charge current, and nervous about barely c/20 and a 
12kw genset only giving me about 5.

 

Bruce 

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP
From: "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems"

Date: Sat, February 08, 2014 11:50 am
To: RE-wrenches 

Hi Bruce,

 

Please explain "feeding it properly". Charging any lead acid battery slowly 
actually preserves battery life. As long as you are achieving the recommended 
charge voltage (temperature compensated) for long enough time, and reaching 
100% SoC regularly, you are caring for the battery.

 

At 82kWh battery capacity and 6.5kW PV, the customer may have a hard time 
getting to 100%. You did not mention, but I HOPE you have a battery capacity 
meter in the system. It's mandatory if they want to care for the battery. Since 
the customer has a small generator, they need to realize the limitations and 
reduce their loads during generator time so you can use the full output.

 

Larry

On Feb 7, 2014, at 11:46 PM, br...@willpowerelect.com wrote:

 

Hi All,

 

3 VFX 3648

2 FM 80

6.5 kw solar

12 kw generator

PSX 240 on generator output and VFX stacking

Mate 3

HUP 1690 ah

 

System design considering 45 amp charge current from each VFX totaling 135 
amps. (135 x ~55v = 7.42kw)  Potential charge current from 2 arrays and FM 
80's, 90 - 100 amps. On a good day, reasonable to expect 200+ amps?

Have not been able to exceed 90 amps for more than 30 minutes, with the 
generator putting out about 9 kw before it's 70 amp 2pole breaker trips. L1 42 
amps, L2 37 amps. 5 amps neutral. Load banked to 12.3 kw (51 amps @ 240v) 
resistive without breaker trip.

I have had to dial back the maximum charge current in the Mate 3 to 12 amps 
each on two of the inverters (L1 and L2) and 8 on inverter 3 to keep the 
generator from tripping out when customer turns on the microwave or coffee pot. 
In effect, 42 amps charge @ 240 v = 7.6 kw. At the battery, I'm only seeing 80 
amps of charge current. Running loads are typically less than 1 kw but there 
has been a of construction going on with chop saws and compressors creating 
annoying spikes that are easily handled by the inverters when the generator is 
off.

I don't want to kill this new battery by not feeding it properly! I would have 
put in a larger generator, but the owner bought the 12 kw before deciding on 
the new battery. I thought the 12 would be merely adequate, but not so

Any suggestions?

 

Thanks!

 

Bruce Fiero-RMI













 





"I'd put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope 
we don't have to wait until oil and coal run out before we tackle that." T. 
Edison, 1931

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP

[RE Ellison]

Thanks Jay,

We used to be able to figure the max charge rate at 25% of the packs
capacity. That might not work with the HUP packs.

 

Glad you have a manual! 

It is always a good idea to follow the directions in the manuals!

 

Later,

Bob Ellison

 

 

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 9:38 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP

 

Hi guys,

 

The HUP manual specifies minimum charge rate of 136 amps, max at 272,

 

jay

peltz power

On Feb 9, 2014, at 1:38 AM, RE Ellison wrote:





Sounds like there is a need for a bigger generator, my gut tells me there is
almost enough (but not quite), with 12kw to almost max the chargers and
nothing left to feed the other loads.

I have found that "on paper" and reality do not always mix well.

Getting max theoretical charging capacity from solar and the generator at
the same time is sometimes a tough nut to crack, although batteries seem to
"like" the varying charge better than a steady max charge. That battery can
probably absorb 420 amps as the charging max using the usual 3 stage
charging we have with inverters, you're not getting anywhere near enough to
max them with that generator. Powering down all the chargers 30% or so (or 1
inverter totally) would help stop the breaker trips but slow the charging
off the generator. Then you just need to pray for lots of sun.

Is the solar alone enough to power the loads in the normal day to day usage
in a best case situation, or is this a case of the generator has to run to
keep up?

 

Up here we have seen 1 sunny day in 3 weeks, we know about generator
usage...

 

I can't speak on the HUP's. I have never used them, but might they be
somewhat hard to charge?

 

Just some thoughts, but it's 3 am and I hope it makes sense in the morning
when I reread it..

 

Later,

Bob

 

 

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
br...@willpowerelect.com
Sent: Sunday, February 09, 2014 1:29 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP

 

Hi Larry,

 

I have an FNDC in the system. Manufacturer wanted 2 hour EQ before adding
water to the new battery. We got that and had SG between 1.260 and 1.275 on
all 24 cells. Cells were very thirsty (shipped with electrolyte almost to
the plates) and took 8.5 gallons between all cells. We aren't having much
trouble getting voltage back up but SG is below 1.23 (within .01 on cells
tested). Strategy at this point is to give a daily bulk and absorb and EQ
every 3 or 4 days for extended times and monitor SG. Discontinue hard
charging when SG plateaus. I generally shoot for c/10 charge current, and
nervous about barely c/20 and a 12kw genset only giving me about 5.

 

Bruce

 Original Message 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charging a HUP
From: "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems"

Date: Sat, February 08, 2014 11:50 am
To: RE-wrenches 

Hi Bruce,

 

Please explain "feeding it properly". Charging any lead acid battery slowly
actually preserves battery life. As long as you are achieving the
recommended charge voltage (temperature compensated) for long enough time,
and reaching 100% SoC regularly, you are caring for the battery.

 

At 82kWh battery capacity and 6.5kW PV, the customer may have a hard time
getting to 100%. You did not mention, but I HOPE you have a battery capacity
meter in the system. It's mandatory if they want to care for the battery.
Since the customer has a small generator, they need to realize the
limitations and reduce their loads during generator time so you can use the
full output.

 

Larry

On Feb 7, 2014, at 11:46 PM, br...@willpowerelect.com wrote:

 

Hi All,

 

3 VFX 3648

2 FM 80

6.5 kw solar

12 kw generator

PSX 240 on generator output and VFX stacking

Mate 3

HUP 1690 ah

 

System design considering 45 amp charge current from each VFX totaling 135
amps. (135 x ~55v = 7.42kw)  Potential charge current from 2 arrays and FM
80's, 90 - 100 amps. On a good day, reasonable to expect 200+ amps?

Have not been able to exceed 90 amps for more than 30 minutes, with the
generator putting out about 9 kw before it's 70 amp 2pole breaker trips. L1
42 amps, L2 37 amps. 5 amps neutral. Load banked to 12.3 kw (51 amps @ 240v)
resistive without breaker trip.

I have had to dial back the maximum charge current in the Mate 3 to 12 amps
each on two of the inverters (L1 and L2) and 8 on inverter 3 to keep the
generator from tripping out when customer turns on the microwave or coffee
pot. In effect, 42 amps charge @ 240 v = 7.6 kw. At the battery, I'm only
seeing 80 amps of charge current. Running loads are typically less than 1 kw
but there has been a of construction going on with chop saws and compressors
creating annoying spikes that are 

Re: [RE-wrenches] 208 V 240 in residential applications

[RE Ellison]

Anything with a motor wants to be intended for 208 three-phase

Any heating elements would want to be for three-phase also

If you try running 240 stuff on 208 it will ultimately take out the motors they 
just don't run as well!

In a past life I had a chain of convenience stores and one of them was fed by 
the utility with 120/208 instead of 240
We were changing compressors a little more often than we would've thought was 
necessary then about having to go back to the original utility paperwork prove 
to them that they had fed us 120/208 instead of 120/240 that the original work 
order called for and that was why we kept crashing all of the electric 
compressors!

It's doable easily just get equipment intended for 208 it has to be intended 
for three-phase

Or life is a real pain in the tail !

Been there done that !

Bob Ellison

> On Feb 9, 2014, at 3:20 PM,  wrote:
> 
> Friends:
>  
> I feel sort of stupid asking this, but it has never come up for me before:
>  
> I have inherited an off-grid install gone-wrong.  The system is 208 three 
> phase with Sunny Boys and Sunny Islands on a mini grid.  It was designed as 
> three phase.  I presume this was to increase capability with stacked SMA 
> inverters.
>  
> Will the household appliances (small cooktop, booster pump, well pump) run as 
> well on 208 as 240?
>  
> I always do my research before wasting all of your time.  The web delivered a 
> lot of “forums” wherein opinions were expressed, but little hard data from 
> bona fide professionals.  I also did some calculations, see below.  I 
> downloaded a manual from a random electric range and saw it was specified as 
> 240 or 208.
>  
> Watts
> 4000
>  
>  
>  
>  
> Volts
> 240
> 208
> Amps
> 16.67
> 19.23
> % Difference in amps
> 13.33%
>  
>  
> I am fairly comfortable that this is not an issue, but would like some 
> confirmation.  Thanks in advance.
>  
> William
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery spill containment

[RE Ellison]

If you look at the bottom of the steel battery boxes they generally have drain 
holes in them!

They are intended to contain the battery cases not the electrolyte

If you want to contain the electrolyte go to a sheet metal shop and have them 
build a case to set the battery case in

Braze or silver solder all of the connections all the joints and they should be 
good.


Bob Ellison

> On Mar 10, 2014, at 5:32 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> The Hawkers we use come in steel containers already with the battery inside 
> if this the same then you should be compliant. You can also have plastic 
> containers made we use TAP Plastics they can custom build you a box that fits 
> your location.
> 
>> On Mar 10, 2014 1:31 PM, "Tump"  wrote:
>> Quick cable does have a battery matt material that does both; item # 
>> 510171-008 72'X96" THEY ALSO HAVE 42X 52 CONTAINMENT PALLET PART # 510250
>> hit cap lock by accident! www.quickcable.com
>>> On Mar 10, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Glenn Burt wrote:
>>> 
>>> William,
>>> 
>>> Look at your local building and fire codes to see if this is a requirement.
>>> Here in NY, the local fire code requires "Spill Control and Neutralization"
>>> when batteries with "free-flowing liquid electrolyte" are installed.
>>> 
>>> Good Luck,
>>> Glenn
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William
>>> Miller
>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:57 AM
>>> To: RE-wrenches
>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery spill containment
>>> 
>>> Friends:
>>> 
>>> Am I under any obligation to provide a spill containment system under an
>>> array of flooded batteries?  If so, what do you recommend under a 8' x 11'
>>> array of Hawkers?  William ___
>>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>>> 
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> 
>>> Change email address & settings:
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>>> 
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>> 
>>> t...@swnl.net   www.SWNL.net
>>> Solarwinds Northernlights   
>>>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>>>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401
>>>   
>>>   Blair "TUMP" May
>>>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
>>>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
>>>
>>>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
>>>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery spill containment

[RE Ellison]

Plastic would definitely work better if you could have access to a shop that 
can make it


Bob Ellison

> On Mar 10, 2014, at 7:44 PM, Chris Mason  wrote:
> 
> Spill containment should be plastic.
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Mar 10, 2014 at 7:41 PM, RE Ellison  wrote:
>> If you look at the bottom of the steel battery boxes they generally have 
>> drain holes in them!
>> 
>> They are intended to contain the battery cases not the electrolyte
>> 
>> If you want to contain the electrolyte go to a sheet metal shop and have 
>> them build a case to set the battery case in
>> 
>> Braze or silver solder all of the connections all the joints and they should 
>> be good.
>> 
>> 
>> Bob Ellison
>> 
>>> On Mar 10, 2014, at 5:32 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The Hawkers we use come in steel containers already with the battery inside 
>>> if this the same then you should be compliant. You can also have plastic 
>>> containers made we use TAP Plastics they can custom build you a box that 
>>> fits your location.
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 10, 2014 1:31 PM, "Tump"  wrote:
>>>> Quick cable does have a battery matt material that does both; item # 
>>>> 510171-008 72'X96" THEY ALSO HAVE 42X 52 CONTAINMENT PALLET PART # 510250
>>>> hit cap lock by accident! www.quickcable.com
>>>>> On Mar 10, 2014, at 3:54 PM, Glenn Burt wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> William,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Look at your local building and fire codes to see if this is a 
>>>>> requirement.
>>>>> Here in NY, the local fire code requires "Spill Control and 
>>>>> Neutralization"
>>>>> when batteries with "free-flowing liquid electrolyte" are installed.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Good Luck,
>>>>> Glenn
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Original Message-
>>>>> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William
>>>>> Miller
>>>>> Sent: Monday, March 10, 2014 11:57 AM
>>>>> To: RE-wrenches
>>>>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery spill containment
>>>>> 
>>>>> Friends:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Am I under any obligation to provide a spill containment system under an
>>>>> array of flooded batteries?  If so, what do you recommend under a 8' x 11'
>>>>> array of Hawkers?  William ___
>>>>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>>>>> 
>>>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> Change email address & settings:
>>>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Unusual problem with SMA TL inverter on metal roof

[RE Ellison]

Is the metal roof grounded? Just a fast thought.

 

bob

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco
Mangelsdorf
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2014 10:31 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Unusual problem with SMA TL inverter on metal roof

 

Friends,

 

We have run across an odd technical problem at our commercial install at a
laundromat on our island.   Attached is the description of the issue from
SMA.  We don't know much except that we are switch out the TL inverters to
the old style US inverters because SMA has no fix for the phantom ground
tripping.  The issue is beyond our feeble understanding.  

 

Any observations to share?

 

Thanks,

 

marco

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Oddball pumping question

[RE Ellison]

I wonder if it is one of those huge sprayers that they are using in the field 
that roll across the field spraying the crops?

They use a massive amount of water on each of their sweeps and I would have to 
say that with my limited water pumping experience I would run screaming from 
the room!

Over the last 20+ years I've tried to apply Solar to do a lot of things, not 
all successfully. 
 that application wouldn't be one of them that I would even consider


Bob Ellison

> On Mar 27, 2014, at 1:08 PM, "William Dorsett"  
> wrote:
> 
> What other technology is asked to do universal service? You wouldn’t drive a 
> dump truck on a family vacation, nor a compact to haul dirt. You can shape 
> the question for any technology to perform unreasonable service. It doesn’t 
> invalidate the cost-effectiveness of PV for substantial portion of the 
> utility’s service.
>  
> Bill Dorsett
>  
> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar
> Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2014 11:02 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Oddball pumping question
>  
> Jerry,
> Your request is entirely reasonable, and my answer is no, I can't. The 
> request in my original message came from an online contact request from 
> someone who was at yesterday's PRC hearing and heard Commissioner Lyons' 
> comment. I have no further information, as to get it I would most likely have 
> to contact the Commissioner myself. I wrote to the List in order to get a 
> "bird's-eye view" of whether such an application was even possible. I 
> wouldn't want to call up the Commissioner for more info with no idea of 
> whether it's even possible. I'd be just another deer in those headlights.
> 
> Given all that, given that he's from the plains on northeastern NM, I would 
> expect it to be a well.
> Allan
> 
>  
> On 3/27/2014 9:36 AM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
> can you give us more details, are you proposing pumping from a pond, a well, 
> storage tank what.
> Jerry 
>  
> 
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 7:19 AM, Chris Mason  
> wrote:
> I have a couple of suggestions. A pump motor of that size is likely Class H 
> and requires a 7x starting current or Locked Rotor Amperage. During starting 
> the power factor can drop to .2 or lower and the inrush can run to 20 times 
> the rated run current. Even diesel generators have a very difficult time 
> starting singular loads of this size. I would not even attempt such a task.
> That said, the solution is to look at the work to be done. If the intent is 
> to pump, let's say, 1 gallons in one hour per day, suggest that a solar 
> powered DC pump could accomplish the same in the course of a day. DC pumps 
> are viable speed and don't have inrush currents.
>  
> 
> On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 10:07 AM, Allan Sindelar 
>  wrote:
> Wrenches,
> Here's one of the oddest questions I have come across in years:
> PRC Commisioner Lyons issued a challenge to NM solar companies today. He 
> stated that he cannot get his electric coop to bring three phase into his 
> property to run his irrigation (a 150 hp motor). He said that whenever he 
> mentions this to a solar outfit - running a 150 hp motor on pv - they look 
> back at him like a deer in the headlights. Can you meet his challenge?
> This application is way above my pay grade, and normally I would not give 
> this question much pause, as few ranchers would be seriously willing to put 
> up the money for the design and research time to work up and price a 
> solution, especially given that as far as I know, none even exists. No rural 
> water pumping PV designer that I know works with motor loads of such scale. 
> Indeed, it makes my head spin to think of it.
> 
> I checked an older (2003) Franklin motor application guide and found specs 
> for a 150 HP 3 phase motor: 128 kilowatts at 380-575 VAC at 60 Hz.
> 
> The only reason I am writing is this: The rancher is one of our state's five 
> Public Regulatory Commissioners. These are the folks who regulate our three 
> private utilities and 20 +/- rural co-ops, and he is perhaps the most 
> conservative one of the five. Last fall he initiated an ill-conceived 
> regulation to cut in half our state's RPS and pushed it through to passage on 
> the PRC; about two months later the ruling was rescinded due to a huge public 
> outcry. So if it were even possible to address his particular request, the 
> potential consequences could have far-reaching effects politically.
> 
> Has anyone attempted or accomplished anything even close to this? Is there 
> existing equipment that could handle such an application? Could such an 
> application be justified economically? Or can anyone offer a reasoned answer 
> why it's not possible?
> 
> Thank you,
> Allan
> --
> Allan Sindelar
> al...@positiveenergysolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder

Re: [RE-wrenches] Myths, Schemes and Scams request

[RE Ellison]

The "suicide cords" are common up here. Most that I have seen are on a
breaker, permanently wired and most have a dead piug covering the generator
ends of the cord. At least there are no live conductors exposed. Now if I
could just get a friend to stop leaving his on the basement floor everytime
it floods!

 

Bob Ellison

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Sunday, April 13, 2014 5:13 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Myths, Schemes and Scams request

 

I'm game: let's do it.  I was just at Home Depot this weekend talking about
male male extension cords..

Ray

I also admit to, when in a whimsical mood, asking staff at Home Depot / Ace
hardware etc., how to make up a male to male extension cord so my Honda
generator can run my house in an emergency. One of these days I'll find a
co-conspiritor with a tiny camera and make an educational video of it. 

 




Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342

 

 

On Sat, Apr 12, 2014 at 6:53 PM, Dave Click  wrote:

If you also have the local electricians selling the kvar units as surefire
ways to save 30% on your electric bill, I'd nominate that as
myth/scheme/scam, though I hope most of those resellers are doing so only
because they're naive. There was also some absurd company a few years ago
which was selling a "3000W" module that looked suspiciously like a 200W
module yet could produce a steady 3kW even without any load and even while
in the shade. They had the clamp-on meter to prove it, so maybe they're
still selling off area code exclusivity off for a mere $50,000 initial
deposit.

Screen-shots from this would be fun-- one of the ubiquitous "$50 for this
complete guide to unplugging from grid by making your own solar panels"
http://www.powerfreedom.com/System/

The YellowBook ad from a few years ago:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hpHxEhO_DQ

I don't know where I got this picture-- from one of the "make your own solar
panel" things online. Lovely aesthetics!
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bxhl3q6hrr9z5sp/DIY%20PV.png 



  

On 2014/4/12, 16:47, Allan Sindelar wrote:

Fellow Wrenches,
Last year I prepared an hour's presentation for our local Solar Fiesta on
"Energy Myths, Schemes and Scams". I covered mostly PV and the solar
industry, with a few slides about the physics of wind and those cute spinny
yard-art things called VAWTs.  I also hit on "it takes more energy to make a
PV panel than it will ever produce", the limitations of 25-year module
warranties, "free energy generators", James McKirdy, lunar modules, and
modules with fraudulent listings. This was what I was able to pull together.

The workshop was popular and I have been asked to give it again in a couple
of weeks. I'm looking for any suggestions that you may have for new or
additional material to update the presentation. Any ideas are welcome,
especially if you can provide links to good stories and slide materials.
This is for a general non-technical audience, but I have the freedom to go
in any direction I wish. So I'd like to be more than just entertaining, but
make points about value over price, using local installers with knowledge
and experience, etc. 

Beside my appreciation for the material, I'll offer in return to share an
editable version of the presentation for your own use (although it's a 14
meg PowerPoint file at present).

Thank you in advance for your suggestions of anything that gets your blood
boiling, that would be funny if it wasn't giving PV and clean energy a bad
name.
Allan

-- 

Allan Sindelar
  al...@positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.

A Certified B CorporationTM
505 780-2738   cell

 





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wrong title on my inquiry ... Charge Controller Question!

[RE Ellison]

Up to 960 A max charging current?

Was this thing published on April 1?

It must have been!

Bob Ellison


Bob Ellison

> On Apr 22, 2014, at 4:39 PM, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi Karl,
> 
> On their main page they claim charging "...with little or no electrolyte 
> gassing." Gassing is a function of charge voltage. If you are charging deep 
> cycle batteries properly, you will be gassing. After reading through the 
> brochure, I'm not very impressed. Do yourself a favor and listen to what Ray 
> said. Stick with proven, mainstream CC manufacturers. The fact that it is not 
> an MPPT controller is a major drawback in any system over a few hundred 
> Watts. 
> 
> Please share with us the operating and customization functions that you are 
> looking for?
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 22, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Karl Jaeger  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> From: Karl Jaeger 
> Sent: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 2:28 PM
> To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: RE: Fault Current
> 
> Greetings Wrenches,
> We’re considering a new charge controller for an upcoming project that offers 
> a wide range of operation and customization. Has anyone had experience with 
> this product? General specs and link below:
> 
> Sollatek - Solar Control Centre/ Solar Charge Controller
> 12/24/or 48V
> 10-100V Voltage Range
> 90-960A Max Charge Current
> http://www.sollatek.com/product/solarcontrolcentre/
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> Karl Jaeger
> LightWave Solar
> 
> 
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[RE-wrenches] EMP question

[RE Ellison]

> I have been asked several times over the last few years about EMP weather 
> it's man-made or caused by the sun

> I figure the safe bet is the inverters and electronics are probably in 
> trouble.

However I had a guy asking me yesterday about what would happen to the solar 
panels.

Would they be unharmed or would a pulse destroy them?

They looked to me like a big antenna sitting out there but I'm really not sure.

What does the group think?  any suggestions or ideas ?

Thanks,
Bob Ellison
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hijacked Website

[RE Ellison]

Dan,

Here is what i could find searching the phone number, it might be spoofed.

 

Good luck,

Bob Ellison

 

  479-208 Free Phone Number
Information. Who called you from ... *

www.cmrdesign.net/exchange/4792086 - Proxy -
 Highlight 

4792086701: Data Avail. Van Buren, AR: CRAWFORD: 53,000: CELL PHONE:
8/31/2003: 0: 4792086374: Data Avail. Van Buren, AR: CRAWFORD: 53,000: CELL
PHONE: 8/31/2003: 0 ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Roy Butler
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 7:36 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hijacked Website

 

Dan,

That's freaky! I would have known right away this wasn't yoursfar too
corporate looking ;-)

Seriously, here's the registration info I found.I bolded what I think
might be a help to you:



Registrant Email: speaderva...@yahoo.com
Registry Admin ID: 
Admin Name: Christian Crawford
Admin Organization: Foxfire Energy Corporation
Admin Street: 141 Howland Rd 141
Admin City: Brattleboro
Admin State/Province: VT
Admin Postal Code: 05301
Admin Country: US
Admin Phone: +1.4792086701
Admin Phone Ext: 
Admin Fax: 
Admin Fax Ext: 
Admin Email: speaderva...@yahoo.com
Registry Tech ID: 
Tech Name: Hostmaster ONEANDONE
Tech Organization: 1&1 Internet Inc.
Tech Street: 701 Lee Rd.
Tech City: Chesterbrook
Tech State/Province: PA
Tech Postal Code: 19087
Tech Country: US
Tech Phone: +1.8774612631
Tech Phone Ext: 
Tech Fax: +1.6105601501
Tech Fax Ext: 
Tech Email: hostmas...@1and1.com





Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerR
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer
IREC Certified Master TrainerT for Small Wind Installer
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747  www.four-winds-energy.com
 
Join us at the 10th Annual Small Wind Conference
A Gathering of Installers, Manufacturers, Dealers, & Distributors
June 17 and 18, 2014 in Stevens Point, Wisconsin
www.smallwindconference.com
 
Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
 


On 4/30/2014 7:16 PM, d...@foxfire-energy.com wrote:

 

Merry Mud season everyone, We just got the heads up from NABCEP that our
website (www.Foxfire-Energy.com) has been hijacked by a fictitious renewable
energy organization (www.Foxfire-Energy-Corporation.com). Seems they copied
our web site info and posted it on their site with minor modification. a
google search of their business location puts them on a dirt road in the
middle of no where like three towns down. a phone call brings you to a
Philippino sounding call center to a gent who identifies him self as Dutch.
I want his Juggler for a chew toy for my Weinerdog. Just wondering if anyone
else ran into this, and what might be our recourse. Is this the result of
the end of Net Neutrality? 

 

Sorry Micheal if this is a off subject. We've worked hard to build up our
industry's credibility. Irks me to see some scumbag cubicle dweller trying
to cash in.

 

Advice? Thanks db

 

Dan Brown
Foxfire Energy Corp.
Renewable Energy Systems
(802)-483-2564
www.Foxfire-Energy.com
NABCEP #092907-44



 






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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery cable crimper

[RE Ellison]

The other nice thing about the bench mount you can get a benchmark cutter also

I put mine on a 2 x 12 about 4 foot long you can carry it and work with and on 
the back of the truck and it's a lot harder for it to grow legs than just a 
hand Cutter or crimper

Not bulletproof but at least it is there were you need it, not back at the shop!


Bob Ellison

> On Apr 30, 2014, at 2:44 PM, Jason Szumlanski  wrote:
> 
> Crimpers:
> http://www.quickcable.com/products.php?pageId=534
> 
> I believe MagnaLugs are all okay with fine stranded cable. The heavy wall MCM 
> lugs are made specifically for fine stranded and a single die set covers all 
> sizes.
> 
> Get a ratcheting type and/or bench mounted model if you are doing lots of 
> cables.
> 
> Jason Szumlanski
> 
> 
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 2:31 PM, Solar  wrote:
>> Hello all,
>> 
>> I am looking for recommendations for a battery cable crimper.  I'd love to 
>> get one with the dies built in, but the ones I've looked at are only for 
>> non-fine strand wire.
>> 
>> Suggestions?
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> Jesse
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Split bolts

[RE Ellison]

Usually just by using an ungodly amount of tape, rubber tape and standard tape 
! Three layers standard electrical tape then rubber tape then more standard 
electrical tape.

The first layer of standard electrical tape seems to help keep the rubber tape 
from getting pierced by the sharp edges

Good day,
Bob Ellison

> On Jun 25, 2014, at 2:14 PM, "William Miller"  wrote:
> 
> Friends:
>  
> I narrowly avoided catastrophe yesterday.  I created a tap connection on a 
> 200 amp main breaker.  I wrap split bolts with Scotch 2229 mastic and then 
> cover that with a generous layer of Scotch 33+ tape. 
>  
> On this occasion, just as I was putting the dead front in place I noticed the 
> glint of metal poking through the mastic and tape.  The points on the legs of 
> the split bolt are sharp and the mastic and tape had crept away from this 
> point and exposed a tiny point of metal.  This point would have contacted the 
> dead front lightly or at least would have been in close proximity.  Had I 
> energized the breaker, I would have had a significant arc.  I unwrapped both 
> connectors so both bolts had the legs facing away from the dead-front, 
> creating a good ½” of clearance and then wrapped them more carefully.
>  
> 30 years ago I had access to rubberized cloth tape that we used instead of 
> the mastic.  I suspect the cloth tape is more durable than the mastic, but I 
> don’t see it in the supply houses anymore.
>  
> How do the rest of you wrap split bolts so you are confident that the mastic 
> won’t creep away from a high point on the connector?
>  
> Thanks in advance.
>  
> William
>  
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com
> 805-438-5600
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum and Pumps

[RE Ellison]

What has been everybody’s experience with Full River Batteries?

 

Bob

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Roy Butler
Sent: Wednesday, July 02, 2014 3:12 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum and Pumps

 

Sweetthanks for that info, I stand corrected!



Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer
IREC Certified Master Trainer™ for Small Wind Installer
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747  www.four-winds-energy.com
 
Join us at the 10th Annual Small Wind Conference
A Gathering of Installers, Manufacturers, Dealers, & Distributors
June 17 and 18, 2014 in Stevens Point, Wisconsin
www.smallwindconference.com
 
Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
 


On 7/2/2014 2:55 PM, Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems wrote:

Hi Roy, 

 

The FullRiver DC400-6 AGM battery can issue 2000 amps for 5 seconds so he 
should be fine.

 

Larry

On Jul 2, 2014, at 12:35 PM, Roy Butler  wrote:

 

I haven't seen anyone mention the battery bank. If I understand correctly, 
there's a single string of sealed
L16 batteries on this inverter. I have my doubts as to whether or not that bank 
can provide the high current
the inverter needs to start this load.



Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer
IREC Certified Master Trainer™ for Small Wind Installer
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747  www.four-winds-energy.com  
 
Join us at the 10th Annual Small Wind Conference
A Gathering of Installers, Manufacturers, Dealers, & Distributors
June 17 and 18, 2014 in Stevens Point, Wisconsin
www.smallwindconference.com  
 
Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
 


On 7/2/2014 2:10 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

To further qualify my statements, the inverter will start the pump without 
issue, but I should echo the warnings by others that if there are other loads 
present, especially other motor loads that could start ​concurrently, you may 
experience issues. As long as your customer understands the limitations and 
possibilities, you may be just fine.

 

Jason Szumlanski

​ Fafco Solar​

 

  

 

 

On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 11:00 AM, Jason Szumlanski  wrote:

For what it's worth, I've run a single speed 1.5HP pool pump with a MS4448PAE 
in a mobile application on a 38.4kWh battery bank (sixteen Rolls S-530's). I 
have also run a 2.5HP Hayward EcoStar Variable Speed pool pump at full RPM, but 
that startup current is likely less than you well pump.

 

I'm going to guess your 3/4HP well pump will be a breeze to start with this 
inverter.

 

Jason Szumlanski 

​ Fafco Solar​

 

 

On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Allan Sindelar  wrote:

Drake,
As a normal CYA, I'll always gently let a customer know that this (or any) 
particular combination of inverter and load sometimes proves incompatible, just 
in case the unexpected happens. (We once had a MS4448 that would not reliably 
start and run a condensing boiler; a switch to a different boiler resolved the 
issue.)

Having said that note of caution, I wouldn't give it any concern. 3/4 HP and 1 
HP well pumps have never been an issue; I would expect 1.5 HP to be easy to 
run. At 2 HP I'd be asking these questions here. 

You might check that it's a 3-wire, capacitor-start motor, but nowadays nearly 
all are. Two-wire pumps (with no control box) can add 50% to the surge.

The Magnum has a fairly poor voltage regulation response. Sometimes the AC 
voltage can drop to ~80 VAC momentarily. So you might also caution your 
customer that the lights may flicker when the pump starts. In our home we know 
whenever our Kenmore fridge turns on.

Allan

Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738   cell

 

On 7/2/2014 8:17 AM, Drake wrote:

Hello Wrenches,

We are hoping to use a Magnum PAE 4448 to back up a household that includes a 
3/4 HP deep well pump. There is about 120 feet of vertical rise and about 1000 
feet of horizontal distance. 

I have been told that there is a correlation between the locked rotor current 
of a pump and the predictable ability of a specified inverter to power that 
pump. 

The plumber who installed the pump left no paperwork and retained no records of 
what pump he put in the hole last year. He could only say it was a 3/4 HP pump. 
We are therefore unable to obtain the manufacturer's namepl

Re: [RE-wrenches] Canadian Solar

[RE Ellison]

Hard to hold off Chinese panels at fire sale prices. I am sort of surprised 
there are any manufacturers left that are not out of China!

 

Later,

Bob Ellison

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Marco Mangelsdorf
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 6:50 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Canadian Solar

 

A  not so large German company that’s been bleeding money for the past three 
years and whose stock value is in the toilet.  Caveat emptor.

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Kristopher Schmid
Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2014 10:26 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Canadian Solar

 

I have been to the factory, Jerry and was very impressed.  That's why i use 
them whenever possible. 

On Jul 12, 2014 11:27 AM, "Jerry Shafer"  wrote:

Solar world is backed by a very large German company and is investigating 
expanding the manufacturing foot print they have, have you been to the factory, 
If not you need to go, in some cases you can take your customer too. They sell 
low output cells that they will not use to other manufactures. You never know 
with manufactures look at Sharp, I prefer US over SEA

On Jul 12, 2014 9:08 AM, "Kristopher Schmid"  wrote:

Thanks for the input, folks.  My client is very concerned about warranty 
disappearing if the company goes under and was attracted by their third party 
warranty.  Solarworld is my usual go to module, but my client was not impressed 
with their stock history.  Canadian Solar are Chinese? WTF?

On Jul 11, 2014 5:40 PM, "jay peltz"  wrote:

I'm always curious why they are interested in a particular product, any idea 
Kris?

( especially with canadian solar as usually people think they are canadian not 
chinese)

 

jay

 

peltz power

 

On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 2:52 PM, Kristopher Schmid  
wrote:

Hi All,

I have a client interested in using Canadian Solar modules.  Anyone that can 
share their experience with them good, bad, or otherwise would be greatly 
appreciated.  Also, a recommended distributor?

Thanks,

Kris



-- 

Shine On!

Kris Schmid
Legacy Solar, LLC
864 Clam Falls Trail
Frederic, WI 54837
www.legacysolar.com  
715-653-4295
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
BSEE

 

_

 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] UPS disturbance with SMA Inverters

[RE Ellison]

How about disabling one inverter at a time when the disturbances are happening?

That might narrow it down to it being a single inverter.

Through the process of elimination you may be able to find out if it is a 
single inverter or a combination of inverters that makes it do it.

It might be a specific inverter or it might be a specific combination of 
inverters

I have seen APC UPS units click but not activate, in that case it was one 
inverter off grid and one UPS.

Somewhat irritating, I put it where I couldn't hear it to make the problem go 
away so to speak !

Later,
Bob ellison




Bob Ellison

> On Aug 4, 2014, at 10:29 AM, Carl Adams  wrote:
> 
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> I have a site which is experiencing nuisance disturbance of the computer UPS 
> systems at the site.  The site owner "suspects" this is due to the PV system 
> which is a 50 kW system using 6 SMA SunnyBoy inverters.  The nuisance 
> disturbance is a clicking noise in the UPS units.  The disturbance is not 
> enough to cause the UPS to engage, so it seems to be a small disturbance on 
> the AC power.   The site owner "suspects" the inverters are the source of 
> this disturbance since 1) It seems to only occur when we have a good solar 
> day.  2) If the inverters are shut down the problem goes away, and if you 
> start up the inverters the problem exhibits again.
> 
> The site was commissioned in March of 2012 and has had no problems till this 
> issue last month.  In reviewing the event log on Sunny Portal there are no 
> inverter anomalies.  SMA tech support had not run into this issue and had no 
> ideas, they too agree the inverters are not reporting any anomalies.
> 
> The problem is not persistent but rather intermittent making this harder to 
> troubleshoot.
> 
> So my questions are
> 1) Has anyone else seen this sort of issue before, related to SMA SunnyBoy 
> inverters.
> 2) Can you recommend an AC power monitoring tool which would support  
> frequency and voltage monitoring on the AC line.  Perhaps one data set on the 
> circuit feeding the computers and another on the inverter output circuit.
> 
> For clarity the six SunnyBoys feed into an AC Combiner panel which backfeeds 
> into the building main distribution panel.  The service is 240V single phase.
> 
> With Regards
> Carl Adams, SunRock Solar
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
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Re: [RE-wrenches] ground mounted systems

[RE Ellison]

Look into US Solar Mounts, Eric has built in wire management and some real nice 
looking racks. I have been watching make constant improvements every year for 
quite a while.

 

Before his racks I thought DPW was the best we could get, These look tougher 
and the wire management is real slick.

Look close at some of the touches and it is impressive.

 

Bob Ellison 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of t...@ecs-solar.com
Sent: Friday, August 08, 2014 2:14 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] ground mounted systems

 

GROUND MOUNTED SYSTEMS NEC 690.31 REQUIRING FENCING OR SOMETHING TO PREVENT THE 
VILLAGE IDIOT FROM PLAYING WITH THE PV source and output conductor circuits . 
Besides fencing what raceways or guarding passes code and what manufacturers 
have a raceway , etc . to provide physical protection and reduce electrical 
hazards . Will an PV electric fence charger A SINGLE WIRE  suffice , or 
does a moat with alligators suffice , or a standard fence without barb 
concertina wire qualify . Where is the height code for fences ? Gator Tom

 

Tom Lane

Energy Conservation Services
352.377.8866 (office)
352.231.3495 (direct)
www.ecs-solar.com 



 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Fuse Locations

[RE Ellison]

Do not put a circuit breaker in a battery box if you have ever seen one in 
anger in a dark room they can toss a good set a flaming sparks out that arch 
chute !

Not good in a battery box!

A class T fuse bolted on to a terminal is safe, from my understanding they 
don't throw a spark when they burn

makes no matter where you put the fuse, positive negative or in the middle of 
each string

Just my thoughts,
Bob Ellison


Bob Ellison

> On Aug 10, 2014, at 4:25 PM, William Korthof  wrote:
> 
> Also, I think working clearance requirements are relaxed. 
> 
> Very sensible. Battery packs present a potential for serious problems in the 
> event of an uninterrupted fault. 
> 
> IMHO, in the US, we already have far too many complicated code rules on PV 
> systems. But for battery systems, this exception is wise... and I think we 
> should a step further and provide a mid-point protective fuse in the middle 
> of each battery string. 
> 
> /wk
> 
> 
> On Aug 10, 2014, at 11:03 AM, richard.l.rat...@valley.net (Richard L Ratico) 
> wrote:
> 
> Drake,
> It seems the code is providing some flexibility for the location of OCPD in
> battery circuits. Placement "as close as practicable to the storage battery
> terminals" is ok even if that is in an enclosed space (say a battery box) 
> where
> the possible accumulation of flammable gases may occur.
> 
> Dick Ratico
> Solarwind Electric
> 
> 
> 
> --- You wrote:
> Hello Wrenches,
> 
> I'm studying the NEC for a rectification exam, and came across this 
> little gem. Can anyone explain what the following code rule is saying 
> from 240.21 H, (Overcurrent Protection, Location in the circuit)?
> 
> (H) Battery Conductors. Overcurrent protection shall be
> permitted to be installed as close as practicable to the storage
> battery terminals in an unclassified location. Installation of the
> overcurrent protection within a hazardous (classified) location
> shall also be permitted.
> 
> It seems to say we can't do something, but we can anyway. The 
> Handbook provides no clarification.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Drake
> --- end of quote ---
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Fan Controller

[RE Ellison]

Might it be easier to change the motor or is it just too large?

Might try a green house supply, or grangers catalog.

 

Just some quick thoughts.

 

Bob Ellison

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Kirpal Khalsa
Sent: Wednesday, August 20, 2014 5:43 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Fan Controller

 

Hey Folkswe have a customer with a 24VDC fan for venting a green house and 
we would like to be able to control speed on it instead of just on/off...The 
fan draws 22 Amps at 24VDCAny suggestions on how to regulate speed? The 
idea is to have the fan pull less than the 22 amps

rheostat? potentiometer

I think essentially what i am looking for is a dimmer switch for a 24VDC 
motor.

Thank you!!




Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
Renewable Energy Systems
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-218-0201 m
541-299-0402 o

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Energy sold to tax dodger

[RE Ellison]

Even stranger is that is not who they told me was buying them out, it was
another inverter manufacturer.

Big in the RV / Coach market. Seems like it was Dimensions or something like
that. Unless they were just flipped?

Every company with stockholders will become "tax dodgers", at least till we
get the crippling taxes lowered to a reasonable rate.

Even Burger King is moving, and it will continue till none are left.

 

Bob Ellison

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of frenergy
Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2014 10:46 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Energy sold to tax dodger

 

Bill,

 

Interesting because at InterSolar in SF this June, they were still
bragging about being made in the USA.  I guess you'd want to right up until:
"Another one bites the dust"   (there's a song isn't there?)  It's getting
terribly lonely out there for a US made offgrid inverter.

 

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric

- Original Message - 

From: Bill Hennessy   

To: RE-wrenches   

Sent: Sunday, September 07, 2014 6:47 AM

Subject: [RE-wrenches] Magnum Energy sold to tax dodger

 

hey wrenches, I suppose it's old news to you West Coasters, but saw
yesterday that Magnum inverters has been sold for $60 million to a Mitt
Romney conglomerate that shifted to the Netherlands to avoid paying US
taxes. The new owner, Sensata, touts its "integrity" and comes with a rep of
moving jobs to China.



SEC Info - Sensata Technologies Holding N.V. - 10-Q - For 6/30/14 - R22
 








  SEC Info - Sensata
Technologies Holding N.V. - 10-Q - For 6/30/14 - R22 

Reference 1: http://www.xbrl.org/2003/role/presentationRef -Publisher FASB
-Name Accounting Standards Codification -Topic 805 -SubTopic 10 -Section 50
-Paragraph 1 





  View on www.secinfo.com

Preview by Yahoo






 









http://finance.yahoo.com/news/tax-dodge-used-bain-escapes-040100235.html



 
image




 
Tax Dodge Used by Bain Shifts U.S. Firms Abroad Without ... 

While its top executives are still based in Attleboro, Massachusetts, it's
now known as Sensata Technologies Holding NV (ST) of the Netherlands.
Treasury Department...




 
View on finance.yahoo.com

Preview by Yahoo





 

 

Bill Hennessy
Berks Solar, LLC
371 Centennial Rd
Mertztown, PA 19539

o 610 682 4300
c 484 560 4666
NABCEP certified installer
PA contractor #44411
www.berkssolar.com

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Poletop rack with easy tilt change...anybody got that?

[RE Ellison]

Look into US solar Mounts out of I believe Sparta Wisconsin

Built in wire storage, Electric options and built real tough

Back to work,
Bob Ellison

> On Aug 23, 2014, at 9:10 PM, ellenes...@aol.com wrote:
> 
> Oh Bob, I'm so sorry to hear all of this. How did you find out? I feel so bad 
> for Troy. John had testicular cancer at about that same age. He was lucky 
> enough to get into a test group at Sloan Kettering that saved his life. I 
> just mentioned this to John, and he thinks the new treatments are very 
> effective. Lance Armstrong is another survivor, and it had gotten to his 
> brain, so there are definitely better treatments these days.
>  
> As for the rest of it with Chris, I really don't hear from her any more. I am 
> still on her Facebook page, but she doesn't message me or anything like that 
> any more. I guess she would know better than to try to say any of that stuff 
> to me. I found it ironic that they packed Fern up to go to Texas, and Fern is 
> back in Watertown while Chris is VA or wherever they are now.
>  
> I have a Lioness here helping me with Apple Festival stuff, so I can't call 
> right now. Tomorrow I have a few more coming so it will be hard to talk much, 
> but give me a call if you want.
>  
> Hang in there.
>  
> Love,
>  
> Ellen
>  
>  
> In a message dated 8/23/2014 8:13:18 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
> reelli...@gmail.com writes:
> Well I just found out that my son Troy had a benefit today
> Apparently he has testicular cancer
> 
> I haven't heard from any of them in several years
> 
> Jeremy hasn't answered anything in probably six or eight months
> 
> It was put on by Chris Jeremy and Robin
> 
> I'd like to see Jeremy and Robin sometime I don't care to see Chris 
> The lies she was telling about me I don't appreciate
> 
> She didn't want to be her and she did a good job of not being here several 
> years although she would still show up at Thanksgiving and Christmas
> 
> 
> Bob Ellison=
electric options


Bob Ellison

> On Sep 8, 2014, at 10:18 AM, jay peltz  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mick,
> 
> I"ve been using General Specialites out of Idaho for the larger ones.
> http://generalspecialties.biz/
> 
> They have a geared winch option for the larger ones.
> Very solid design.
> 
> jay
> peltz power
> 
>> On Sep 8, 2014, at 8:11 AM, Mick Abraham wrote:
>> 
>> Hi, My client wants one of the larger "top of pole" racks but we all know 
>> that adjusting the tilt on those is not easy once they're loaded with glass. 
>> Does anyone make a poletop rack with a geared adjustment which could be 
>> cranked by hand? OR: how about a satellite dish actuator to which power is 
>> applied to change the tilt? OR: Does the esteemed Wrench List have other 
>> options or suggestions to consider? 
>> 
>> Thanks as always. The Wrench List is the Bomb!
>> 
>> Mick Abraham, Proprietor
>> www.abrahamsolar.com
>> 
>> Voice: 970-731-4675
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Re: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid

[RE Ellison]

The inverter portion of the process at this point in time would be
relatively east to do. That's not saying that the inverter will like the
power quality. Most generators will not put out smooth enough power to allow
an inverter to connect. The engines that I have seen running on wood gas
were nowhere near smooth enough to meet an inverters interconnect standards.


After all that you get to deal with the regulatory hoops and I doubt that
would be easy.

Just some thoughts.
Bob Ellison



-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ron Young
Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2014 8:51 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] wood gasification to grid

I have a customer who wants to use a 50kw generator converted to wood
gasification to tie into the grid. Any recommendations on the type of grid
tie gear that will be appropriate? It's a preliminary inquiry but I'm
guessing a 240v output from the generator, single phase but may be 3ph. I
see Solectria and SatCon make inverters in this range. Any suggestions
appreciated

Ron Young



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wire management devices

[RE Ellison]

I have mentioned in the past, look into US Solar Mounts, The wire management is 
built in!

They have several different styles of mounts and many of them have wire 
management built into the frames

 Custom-built for each install so you tell him what you're using and what you 
need and they will tell you what will work best

Another product that's made in the USA!
Bob Ellison


Bob Ellison

> On Oct 13, 2014, at 1:34 PM, Christopher Warfel 
>  wrote:
> 
> I am well aware of all the possibilities of danger in many aspects of life.  
> This is not a main one in my opinion, and given that there are no good 
> solutions indicates to me that it is mostly an unsolvable problem unless you 
> wish to be impractical.  All I asked for were products that could provide a 
> solution. .  I have inspected in several states with solar programs that will 
> not enforce securing electrical enclosures in living spaces that have access 
> to 240 v. I even seen this situation in a children's play room.
> I think that is more than a little more serious issue.
> 
> 
> 
>> On 10/13/2014 11:27 AM, William Miller wrote:
>> Christopher:
>> 
>> I believe strongly that the code requirement to protect PV wires from
>> unauthorized personnel is justified.  Ground mount arrays are essentially
>> jungle gyms and could attract children to climb.  If a 50 pound child
>> inadvertently swings on a PV cable across a sharp metal edge the insulation
>> could easily be compromised.  The current limited nature of PV means the
>> current will sink through the short until the short is opened, leaving up to
>> 600 volts at fatal amperage exposed to the touch.  Inadequate ground fault
>> interruption technology does little to prevent the problem.
>> 
>> You cannot legally install a convenience receptacle at any height above
>> ground with the individual conductors exposed, so why should one be allowed
>> to install PV with individual conductors readily accessible?
>> 
>> I grant you that shielding PV wiring on a ground mount is a difficult
>> process.  It is very unfortunate that the industry has been allowed to
>> evolve without developing decent wire management hardware in the process.
>> 
>> If you are not aware of the work we have done on wire management solutions,
>> you might visit our website where we share all of our ideas.  We are giving
>> away trade secrets, but I feel a moral obligation to help everyone in the
>> industry deliver a safe product.
>> 
>> Most sincerely,
>> 
>> William Miller
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Lic 773985
>> millersolar.com
>> 805-438-5600
>> 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
>> Behalf Of Christopher Warfel
>> Sent: Monday, October 13, 2014 5:56 AM
>> To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wire management devices
>> 
>> Thanks all, I don't see a good solution to what I think is a non-existent
>> problem.  I believe that anyone who wants to pull apart dc subarray
>> conductors is attempting to vandalize. It's not easy to do, and you really
>> have to be wondering why someone would even try. Why don't we put all
>> electrical outlets 8 feet off the ground?
>>> On 10/13/2014 2:27 AM, William Miller wrote:
>>> Friends:
>>> 
>>> I looked at the Solarmount web site and I don't think the product
>>> complies-- the wire management leaves leads exposed.  It's a nice start,
>> however.
>>> I was asked by Homepower to do an article on wire management.  I was
>>> flattered they'd ask, but I had to decline because there is so few
>>> options off-the-shelf that I can recommend.
>>> 
>>> William
>>> 
>>> Lic 773985
>>> millersolar.com
>>> 805-438-5600
>> 
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> 
> -- 
> Christopher Warfel, President
> ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
> PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
> 401-466-8978
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Passive Battery Venting

[RE Ellison]

To do it totally passive you will need a long (tall) pipe up the side of the
building, probably painted a dark color to have the sun help warm the tube
to help encourage it to vent up, not draw into the building. Put a 180 on
the top to keep the rain out and a screen to keep out the bugs.

With outside venting the batteries will just draw in room temperature air,
if the room is 70 the battery min temp will be 70. If they are in a basement
they will naturally draw in outside air, run the vent as high as you can to
help prevent that. If you are using a Classic use the relay to turn the fan
on and off at a specific battery voltage. Use a brushless fan and a voltage
powered relay if no other choice. Do not put the relay in the battery box! 
Sealed batteries do need to be vented. I have seen them gas when things go
wrong, not pleasant.

I wouldn't do it without a fan for LA batteries but it would work for
sealed. If the home has a makeup air system or huge exhaust system all bets
are off.

Just some thoughts,

Bob Ellison

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Drake
Sent: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 8:19 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Passive Battery Venting

Hi Daniel,

I typically vent them the way you do, which will allow any small amount of
hydrogen out. The customer is absolutely adamant about venting these to the
outside. I will cooperate so long as his method doesn't compromise the
system through cooling the batteries unnecessarily in the dead of winter.

He is a lawyer and came to the conclusion of the need for venting to the
outside from reading the NEC which says that sealed batteries "require the
same amount of ventilation" as liquid lead acid batteries. The code also
says to vent appropriate to battery technology, so the code says two
conflicting things. On the other hand, it doesn't say that liquid
electrolyte batteries need to be vented to the outside. They will sure stink
if you vent them to the inside.

Drake

At 09:54 AM 10/29/2014, you wrote:
>I just re-read the original post Drake. These are AGM batteries. Do you
have
>a "belt, suspenders,...then a rocket pack" type of client here?
>
>We typically vent our AGM boxes with small louver vents top and bottom to
>allow the batteries to ventilate for cooling purposes, not H2 concerns.
>
>With Regards,
>
>Daniel Young,
>NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90
>NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13
>
>-Original Message-
>From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
>Behalf Of Ray Walters
>Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:12 PM
>To: RE-wrenches
>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Passive Battery Venting
>
>That's why we usually have the batteries in a garage, basement, or out
>building that is not open to the living space.
>I've seen some cases of very well sealed and insulated enclosures allowing
>batteries to over heat, and also build up a lot of acid damaged
connections.
>Boxes I've seen with more air space and less sealing don't get this build
>up, but you're correct: they do occasionally allow H2S into the surrounding
>area.
>
>R.Ray Walters
>CTO, Solarray, Inc
>Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
>Licensed Master Electrician
>Solar Design Engineer
>303 505-8760
>
>On 10/28/2014 8:10 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
> >
> > We do what we can to seal the enclosure so if or when a battery fails
> > and really gasses off the two vents on the same wall regardless of
> > wind direction will vent the gas. If it is not sealed then the gas can
> > travel through out the area this is not advised.
> >
> >
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Venting (WAS Passive Battery Venting)

[RE Ellison]

I have had poor luck with the Zephyr fan lasting. Maybe the newer units are
improved.

Years ago I settled on a Radio Shack 3" fan that has given me good lifetimes
and draws under the relay limit in the controllers. I usually mount it in a
PVC 6 x 6 box as high in the battery box as I can get it. Then run the 2" as
high as I can. If backdrafts are a worry (does not seem to be an issue with
a tall pipe) use a s+d flapper valve, mounted vertically.  

 

Bob Ellison

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Drake
Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2014 12:08 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Venting (WAS Passive Battery Venting)

 

Allan,

That was my plan when he insisted on venting to the outside. 

I use the Zephyr Power Vent for liquid lead acid batteries. When replaced
the liquid electrolyte batteries in our backup system with AGM, we turned
off the Zephyr and took the door off the battery box. I showed it to the
client. I think when you use the word hydrogen to many people they think of
the Hindenberg disaster. 

Has New Mexico ever come to conclusions concerning venting sealed batteries
to the outside, or is it still in limbo?

Thanks,

Drake



At 11:39 AM 11/2/2014, you wrote:



Drake,
My suggestion is that to achieve the client's wishes as well as your own
cooling concerns, you include a Zephyr Power Vent in a 2" PVC vent stack to
the outside. Let the charge controller's voltage-actuated auxiliary setting
power the vent (it's OK to do so directly on Outback and Midnite
controllers, and I believe all other major ones as well). As these are
sealed batteries,they won't gas significantly under normal charge voltages.
Set the turn-on voltage at the gassing voltage, or thereabouts depending on
your determination. This will be above (or below but near) normal charge
voltage, and will cause the Power Vent to turn on only under abnormal
conditions. The Power Vent also has a backdraft damper built in (which is
why it must be oriented vertically) so will prevent excessive convective
heat loss when not running.

This won't address the possibility of one cell failing and gassing, as the
string voltage determines turn-on. However, as others have pointed out, that
may be of benefit: if one cell fails you'll still be able to smell it and
address the problem.
Allan

Allan Sindelar
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell

 
On 10/29/2014 6:19 PM, Drake wrote:



Hi Daniel, 

I typically vent them the way you do, which will allow any small amount of
hydrogen out. The customer is absolutely adamant about venting these to the
outside. I will cooperate so long as his method doesn't compromise the
system through cooling the batteries unnecessarily in the dead of winter. 

He is a lawyer and came to the conclusion of the need for venting to the
outside from reading the NEC which says that sealed batteries "require the
same amount of ventilation" as liquid lead acid batteries. The code also
says to vent appropriate to battery technology, so the code says two
conflicting things. On the other hand, it doesn't say that liquid
electrolyte batteries need to be vented to the outside. They will sure stink
if you vent them to the inside. 

Drake 

At 09:54 AM 10/29/2014, you wrote: 



I just re-read the original post Drake. These are AGM batteries. Do you have

a "belt, suspenders,...then a rocket pack" type of client here? 

We typically vent our AGM boxes with small louver vents top and bottom to 
allow the batteries to ventilate for cooling purposes, not H2 concerns. 

With Regards, 

Daniel Young, 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90 
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13 

-Original Message- 
From: RE-wrenches [ mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
 ] On 
Behalf Of Ray Walters 
Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2014 11:12 PM 
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Passive Battery Venting 

That's why we usually have the batteries in a garage, basement, or out 
building that is not open to the living space. 
I've seen some cases of very well sealed and insulated enclosures allowing 
batteries to over heat, and also build up a lot of acid damaged connections.

Boxes I've seen with more air space and less sealing don't get this build 
up, but you're correct: they do occasionally allow H2S into the surrounding 
area. 

R.Ray Walters 
CTO, Solarray, Inc 
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician 
Solar Design Engineer 
303 505-8760 

On 10/28/2014 8:10 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote: 
> 
> We do what we can to seal the enclosure so if or when a battery fails 
> and really gasses off the two vents on the same wall regardless of 
> wind direction will vent the gas. If it is not

Re: [RE-wrenches] RE; SW4024's were off grid, now on grid AC2 Controls?

[RE Ellison]

I have a customer who installed his own system and was happy as all get out
with it.

 

When they changed the laws they found that he had had been billed for his
own power for seems like around 10 years!  The fellow owns a phone company,
he's no idiot. The meter got him!

 

Bob Ellison

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ken Schaal
Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 11:43 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RE; SW4024's were off grid, now on grid AC2
Controls?

 

Ah the good ol' days

A note from experience. If the meter reader/ smart meter? sees backfeed,
the utility is likely to ask questions. In my customers case, the Co-op was
so eager to prove to the Va. SCC that they were on top of net metering (
this was the early days of net meter )--or maybe they just wanted experience
with it, they actually sent the Coop engineer and a lineman to the job to
test shut off with the grid off. This was with a Trace 6048 Power Panel.,
vintage 1999. The lineman even put on gloves and face shield before we
removed the covers so he could verify no juice to the grid when we turned
off the main breaker. Of course nothing happened , except the house power
stayed on, as the Trace equipment was designed to sell back, but did not
meet the new UL 1741 anti-islanding standard.

The engineer and the lineman were duly impressed~!

And the engineer approved the system for net meter ~!!

 

One more thing-- check that the utility meter installed records the sell
correctly--that is, doesn't count the backfeed as consumption. Around here
the new meters -- with remote reading capability--don't differentiate as to
direction--unless you sign up for net meter in which case you get the proper
meter.

 

We updated several Y2K systems to new UL certified inverters when the
flooded batteries had seen better days.

Sure don't miss all that watering/ equalizing/ and acid mist.

Just a few AGM's now--and an enlarged array.

Anyone need a 6048 Power Panel ?? off list please

 

Ken Schaal

CommonWealth Solar

Ashland, Va. 23005

804-216-5371

 

- Original Message - 

From: Ray Walters   

To: RE-wrenches   

Sent: Monday, December 15, 2014 11:03 AM

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RE;SW4024's were off grid, now on grid AC2
Controls?

 

What you want is already programmed into the inverter.  It's called Low
Battery Transfer mode (LBX), its just a program setting on the inverter.
You select this mode in Menu 9, and then its actual battery voltage settings
are in Menu 16.
It will not sell back in this mode, but fromHome Power Magazine's Guerrilla
Solar movement of the 90s, all you have to do to sell back: "Don't ask,
Don't Tell, just press Sell".

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 12/15/2014 8:09 AM, Daniel Young wrote:

The way I would do this if using outback (really what I'm familiar with) is
to set up the aux relay on the inverter to trigger an AC relay that
connected the grid to the inverters ac input using the "load shed" function.
It would trigger the relay when the batteries reached a set voltage (user
programmable in the outback), then disconnect the grid at higher set
voltage. Ex: activate relay at 46V, then de-activate relay at 50V (48V
system). All you are basically doing is activating a charging source instead
of severing a load to help the battery state of charge. Not sure how the
trace handles AC1 and AC2, so maybe you'd need a second relay to make sure
the generator input is always off when the grid input is active.

Not sure if the trace has this functionality. Hope this applies, or helps
get you down the right path.

With Regards,

Daniel Young, 

NABCEP Certified PV Installation ProfessionalTM: Cert #031508-90

NABCEP Certified Solar Heating InstallerTM: Cert #SH031409-13

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Dave
Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2014 8:10 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] RE; SW4024's were off grid, now on grid AC2 Controls?

Here is a request for advice from one of my old off grid customers who has
recently brought in the grid to lessen his dependence on the generator. He
is NOT selling back to the grid.

The main question I have is this: Can we program the Trace SW4024 so that
that it will charge the batteries with Grid Power (AC2) when a low voltage
setting is reached?

<< "I have two SW4024 inverters.  They are set up to each handle about 1/2
of the loads in the house.

Our system is setup so we are either on Grid power, or battery power.  

The choice is controlled by a manual transfer switch.

AC1 on both inverters is backup generator which is controlled by Inverter #1
when battery voltage reaches preset levels.

AC2 on both inverters is AC from the grid and is currently controlled by
circuit breakers.  The circuit breakers

Re: [RE-wrenches] Generac QT series

[RE Ellison]

If memory serves me correctly and this is the off grid Generac they are 
available as a 120 volt and it takes a new breaker and rewiring to get 120 / 
240 out of them

I run into this in the past they actually had it wired for 240 into a balancing 
transformer to feed 120 into the inverter

We could've just left it at 120 volt 

Later,
Bob ellison 


Bob Ellison

> On Dec 16, 2014, at 11:33 AM, "Baxter, Gary"  wrote:
> 
> Hi Mac,
> Jay just had the same issue and it was 120v from the gen instead of 120/240. 
> The inverter was charging using half the windings causing it to Overtemp.
> 
> Check the 60A breakers on the side of the inverter. Also make sure to remove 
> the wires from the input terminal block before measuring voltage as the 
> inverter will make 120v look like 120/240v at the terminals.
> 
> If the generator is 3 Phase it won't work with this inverter unless you only 
> use one leg. This will work but you will need to turn the charge rate to 50% 
> in order to prevent Overtemp. Sometimes it works as high as 70%.
> 
> Gary Baxter
> Product Manager
> Magnum/Dimensions
> 
> On Dec 15, 2014, at 12:12 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
> 
>> Hi jarmo,
>> 
>> We have verified this is split phase 120/240. My multimeter gets 120 L-N and 
>> 240 L-L.
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>>> On Dec 15, 2014 10:25 AM,  wrote:
>>> Hi: 
>>> 
>>> The Generac QT02224GNAX ships as a three-phase 120/208 VAC.  I believe the 
>>> Magnum is a 120/240 VAC. 
>>> 
>>> JARMO
>>> _
>>>  
>>> 
>>> Jarmo Venalainen  |   Schneider Electric   |  Solar Business  |   CANADA  | 
>>>   Training & Development Specialist - Senior 
>>> Phone: +604-422-2528  |   Fax: +604-420-1591  |   Mobile: +604-505-0291 
>>> Email: jarmo.venalai...@schneider-electric.com  |   Site: www.SEsolar.com  
>>> |   Address: 3700 Gilmore Way, Burnaby, BC V5G4M1 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> *** Please consider the environment before printing this e-mail 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From:   Mac Lewis 
>>> To: RE-wrenches ,
>>> Date:   12/15/2014 05:52 AM
>>> Subject:[RE-wrenches] Generac QT series
>>> Sent by:"RE-wrenches" 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hello wrenches, 
>>> 
>>> We have a newly installed system that has a 22 kW Generac Quiet Source 
>>> QT02224GNAX with a Magnum MS4448-PAE.  When we start the generator, the 
>>> Magnum's internal transformer temperature climbs to overtemp (240F) within 
>>> a 2 minutes.  The batteries are being floated at the time, and haven't seen 
>>> more than 5A coming out of the generator.  We swapped the Magnum out, and 
>>> we have the exact same issue.  We then got a job-site gas generator 6500W 
>>> and ran it.  No problem whatsoever.  The problem appears to be with the 
>>> Generac, or with the interaction between the Generac & the Magnum.  I 
>>> didn't have a scope on site but the fluke multimeter doesn't detect 
>>> anything wrong with the voltage or frequency coming from the Generac. 
>>> 
>>> Has anyone had issues with the Generac QT?  Anyone paired one with a Magnum 
>>> PAE before?  I want to get my scope up there and look for triplen 
>>> harmonics, but I'm not sure how to filter these out.  Any references on how 
>>> to effectively do that is appreciated. 
>>> 
>>> Thanks in advance 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Mac Lewis
>>> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
>>> 
>>> 
>>> __
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum System - Discharged Battery Bank

[RE Ellison]

I had a motorcoach that we upgraded to a magnum inverter, (strangely from a 
dimensions inverter)

the guy called me one day and told me the batteries were at at 9 V, when I got 
there they were flat and by that I mean they made a pancake look high !

As it turned out the low-voltage disconnect gets bypassed by the smoke and 
carbon monoxide detectors in the motorcoach

End result was six very discharged golf cart batteries that I don't think ever 
fully recovered

Might there be something like that loading the batteries when nobody is looking?


Bob Ellison

> On Dec 17, 2014, at 2:13 PM, Dan Fink  wrote:
> 
> Interesting mystery, and great discussion.
> I'm leaning towards a battery cell problem too. Corey mentions 3 strings of 4 
> "12v" batteries -- what are these 12v batteries exactly?
> I've seen issues in the past that convince me a couple parallel battery 
> strings are a good thing (but not too many strings); in an open-cell failure 
> mode the parallel string keeps the battery bank from 'disappearing.'
> 
> 
> 
> Dan Fink
> Buckville Energy
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for: 
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
> 
>  
> 
>> On Wed, Dec 17, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Ray Walters  wrote:
>> I've never seen an inverter not disconnect on low voltage.  My understanding 
>> is that they just can't operate below a certain threshold.
>> However, I have seen behavior as described caused by DC loads that did not 
>> have a LVD in place.  Were there any other DC connections to the battery 
>> bank besides the inverter?
>> Once the whole bank gets low enough, even the charge controllers will not 
>> reconnect, and the entire bank is quickly ruined.
>> This is why I rarely use DC direct loads anymore, and If I do, I always 
>> recommend a LVD.
>> Any chance of a short circuit in the cabling before the inverter?
>> The only other thing I could think of is a shorted cell in one of the 
>> batteries, that then drained the rest of the batteries.
>> 
>> 
>> R.Ray Walters
>> CTO, Solarray, Inc
>> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
>> Licensed Master Electrician
>> Solar Design Engineer
>> 303 505-8760
>>> On 12/17/2014 10:36 AM, Corey Shalanski wrote:
>>> Clarification and Update:
>>> - I believe I may have inadvertently thrown Magnum under the bus in in my 
>>> initial post. 
>>> ᐧ
>>> While on site yesterday I did speak with Magnum's customer support about my 
>>> findings and they advised to try to trickle charge the batteries up to the 
>>> minimum threshold at which the Magnum inverters would turn back on. From 
>>> there we will hopefully be able to run some more determinate tests. My 
>>> question about the low-battery-cutout was more intended to explore whether 
>>> others have ever experienced any similar issues with this protection 
>>> feature. I am finding out that the feature is only relevant during 
>>> inverting (not charging) mode and so would imply that the utility feed had 
>>> been cut, which does not appear to be the case.
>>> - Our battery distributor has lent us a 12-circuit trickle charger - one 
>>> set of alligator clips per battery. I am planning to re-visit the jobsite 
>>> later today to put each battery on a trickle charge, which I am told will 
>>> take 1-2 weeks for any lasting change to take effect. The distributor 
>>> advised to reverse the leads on the batteries with negative voltage, hoping 
>>> that they may be recoverable as "reversed pole" batteries thenceforth.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Corey
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2014 at 8:27 PM,  wrote:
 
 
 Wrenches,
 
 I visited a customer today whose grid-tied battery backup system suffered
 some sort of catastrophic failure, and now I'm trying to play detective to
 figure out what happened and whose equipment/design is to blame.
 
 Here is what I know so far:
 - System is ac-coupled with a Sunny Boy 7000 (7.85kW array), Magnum
 MS4448PAE (x2), 3 strings of 4 12v batts (705Ah total)
 - Site visit was triggered by the Sunny Boy registering zero output via
 online monitoring.
 - SPST Solid state relay installed on Sunny Boy output, controlled via
 Magnum router, serves as secondary overcharge protection to Magnum's
 frequency shift feature. Technician who initially responded claims he
 measured 240v across the relay's terminals - relay manufacturer claims this
 is "100% impossible". We removed the relay from the circuit, and the Sunny
 Boy is again operational.
 - On arrival I found the Magnum display showing a "Low Battery Charge"
 message with the bank measuring ~4Vdc. The individual batteries were in
 various states of charge, ranging from high of 6.3v to low of -2.6v. These
 measurements were taken at rest, all battery cables disconnected, and yes
 three of the batts were registering a negative voltage.
 - Customer reports that he was not aware of any

Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum System - Discharged Battery Bank

[RE Ellison]

If a battery gets discharged to far it goes into what's called reversal The 
positive actually becomes negative and vice versa

When you start charging them it will go back to normal


Bob Ellison

> On Dec 19, 2014, at 9:48 AM, Corey Shalanski  
> wrote:
> 
> Update on my investigation:
> I visited the customer's house yesterday to set up a pulse charger. Much to 
> my surprise the three batteries that originally registered negative voltage 
> are now reading positive. Does this make sense - are batteries able to shift 
> between negative and positive voltages at such a low charge level?
> 
> I do not see any evidence of distorted cases.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 7:58 AM,  wrote:
>> 
>> I second tump.
>> Most likely a bad /cell battery took out the system.
>> As these are VRLA batteries, I'm curious do,the cases look damaged such as 
>> expanded or sunk in?
>> 
>> Jay
>> Peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Magnum System - Discharged Battery Bank

[RE Ellison]

First time I ever saw one of the bank of 80 cells are just about put me in a 
panic

Had no idea they could do that either


Bob Ellison

> On Dec 19, 2014, at 9:48 AM, Corey Shalanski  
> wrote:
> 
> Update on my investigation:
> I visited the customer's house yesterday to set up a pulse charger. Much to 
> my surprise the three batteries that originally registered negative voltage 
> are now reading positive. Does this make sense - are batteries able to shift 
> between negative and positive voltages at such a low charge level?
> 
> I do not see any evidence of distorted cases.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 7:58 AM,  wrote:
>> 
>> I second tump.
>> Most likely a bad /cell battery took out the system.
>> As these are VRLA batteries, I'm curious do,the cases look damaged such as 
>> expanded or sunk in?
>> 
>> Jay
>> Peltz power
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable crimper question

[RE Ellison]

If there actually is a small hydraulic pump connected between those handles?
I have had previous experience a lot Chinese hydraulics, engines, generators

Chinese hydraulics and engines have bad habits of seeping oil if not downright 
leaking!
Their certainly looks like there's no room there for a reasonably sized 
reservoir to store the hydraulic oil.

If it's being sold for 50 bucks it's probably coming out of China for 10 !

Then you still have to consider the fact that if, unless it has changed I 
believe the crimpers still need to be UL listed

No way they're going to spend the money for that!

Interesting toy to play with but I don't think it would hold up, do good cramps 
or be legal


Bob Ellison

> On Feb 6, 2015, at 6:35 PM, Allan Sindelar  wrote:
> 
> Wrenches,
> Has anyone used the cheap Chinese hydraulic cable crimpers? Any field 
> reports? Dies appear to be metric; do they correspond to AWG? All of 
> these kits run about $45, which is absurd, as a Klein manual crimper for up 
> to 4/0 runs $200+, and that's what I expected to buy before I came across 
> lots of these on Ebay.
> 
> An example: 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-Ton-Hydraulic-Wire-Crimper-Crimping-Tool-11-Dies-Battery-Cable-Lug-Terminal-/310896486645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4862dfe8f5
> 
> I'm hesitant without good reviews, but it's tempting. No lectures, please.
> 
> Thank you,
> Allan
> 
> -- 
> Allan Sindelar
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> 505 780-2738 cell
> 
>  
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[RE-wrenches] Fall restraint

[RE Ellison]

Here is a link I just got to a standing seam roof anchor for a single man
attachment for fall restraint.

 

http://www.constructionmagnet.com/metal-builder/fall-protection-distributors
-releases-standing-seam-roof-anchor-ssra1 

 

 

Just thought I would pass it on.

 

Bob Ellison

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Gen preheat in cold climates

[RE Ellison]

A block heater and off grid will not mix well at all.
Might want to look at a "Wabasto heater" It is a mini furnace designed for
over the road trucks. Reasonable on fuel and power consumption. I think it
is www.webasto.com 

Just a thought,
Bob

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Friday, April 03, 2015 11:45 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Gen preheat in cold climates

Hi guys,

I don't live in super cold. 
I'm curious about the block heater part. With the good synthetic oils that
are thin at really cold

Is the issue heating the block or battery or heating the intake for propane
units?

Thanks
Jay
Peltz power




> On Apr 3, 2015, at 8:21 AM, James Jefferson Jarvis 
wrote:
> 
>> On 4/3/2015 9:32 AM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:
>> We are dealing with a generator that absolutely won't start when 
>> cold, so I was considering a block heater. Below 20 deg F it has 
>> proven worthless, and we can see -20 F on occasion.
> 
> I had a generator like that. Below zero it wouldn't start. Replaced it's
cranking battery with a bigger battery and it starts great. There are also
super-capacitor based solutions to get better cranking. If you have a 24
volt system and your generator is near your battery bank, you may even be
able to put a 24 volt starter on the generator and start from your battery
bank.
> 
> 
>> My concern is using power from a low battery on a cold cloudy day to 
>> heat a generator. How long does it take to make a difference? Has 
>> this method proven 100% reliable?
> 
> What type and how big of engine are you talking about? How big is the
block heater? My limited block heater experience with vehicles, tractors,
etc is that an hour won't be enough. A couple hours is needed. With coolant
heaters and fuel injected engines, an hour can actually cause problems. A
pocket of coolant gets warm and tricks the engine management computer into
thinking the coolant is warm. Then it tries to do a warm start and fails.
> 
> Getting a generator that starts reliably is the best solution I see for a
moderate sized off grid installation. Otherwise you are putting a lot of
energy into warming up an engine that might not start. And leaving you in a
worse situation than you started.
> 
> -James Jefferson Jarvis
> APRS World, LLC
> +1-507-454-2727
> www.aprsworld.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Freeze protection Seasonal well

[RE Ellison]

a tiny hole below water level and a check valve in the water line to prevent
the water tank from dumping back into the well will work. In the winter just
drain the tank.

 

Bob

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Tump
Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 8:03 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Freeze protection Seasonal well

 

That is certainly one way of doing this but up here in the north country we
install a "piss valve" available at your local plumbing or pump supply
store. It is a small valve installed in the water line below freeze level in
the well and when pump is operating the valve closes due to the rise of pipe
pressure when pump is off it drains. 

On Apr 8, 2015, at 11:29 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote:





drill a tiny hole in the delivery line at the top of the casing, so when the
water is not pumping it will empty into the well... yes, some will leak when
the pump is running but the only other "non-automatic" option is a seasonal
drain valve.

 

todd

 

 



On Wednesday, April 8, 2015 7:47pm, "Mac Lewis"  said:

Hello wrenches, 

Ive got a potential client that has purchased a Shurflo 9302 submersible
pump that he wants to use at a seasonal cabin.  Does this type of pump
reliably drain back when it is not energized?  

If not, do you have any simple ways to keep the piping from freezing near
the top of the well head?

Thanks
-- 

 

Mac Lewis

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates




Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
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t...@swnl.net
mailto:t...@swnl.net%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::mailto:t...@swnl.net>
http://www.swnl.net/%22%20%5Co%20%22blocked::http://www.swnl.net/>
www.SWNL.net

Solarwinds Northernlights   

   Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
 207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401


  Blair "TUMP" May

     MAINE'S CHARTER 
  NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
   
    MAINE'S CHARTER 
  Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"

 

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Question on Back up generators

[RE Ellison]

I haven't looked lately but check out hardy diesels, 16 kW three cylinder 
Perkins

I have some customers that are real happy with them they have enough power to 
run charging and the household loads of the same time

The price only hurts for a little while

Bob Ellison

> On Apr 9, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Dana  wrote:
> 
> I agree but full load charging usually only lasts but a few minutes as the 
> inverter charge rate drops readily as voltage rises. 8300 watt -10,000 watts 
> or 13000 watts the point is why we are installing air cooled throw away 
> generators that run so fast & hot that they need to be replaced in 2,000 
> hours, not to mention the fuel consumed at 80 MPH?
>  
> Is there a slow speed (1200-1800 rpm) water cooled 8-13 KW generator out 
> there?
>  
> 
> Dana Orzel
> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
> E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com
> O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" 
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>  
>  
> From: Jerry Shafer [mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com] 
> Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2015 7:02 PM
> To: d...@solarwork.com; RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Question on Back up generators
>  
> We don't install anything smaller then a 13 k its air cooled but works well, 
> as far as the numbers you have, Mine are somewhat different I use max 
> potential load and max potential charge as when the batteries are low the 
> genny must not only supply the home but also charge the bank back up at a 
> reasonable rate, so if the loads are high and the genny only has enough to 
> maintain that load then what about the batteries plus I only use 75% of the 
> genny rating for optimum or improved duty cycle. This is only me and I am 
> sure every shop has there own math.
> Jerry
>  
> On Wed, Apr 8, 2015 at 11:23 AM, Dana  wrote:
> Hey All –
>  
> I just got off of a phone call with my Onan generator supplier. Last 
> conversation with Kohler was the same story basically.
>  
> I was informed that their smallest water cooled generator, the RS22 (22 KW) 
> is now no longer “rated “for off grid. They actually called me to confirm 
> that this generator was for backup power to a utility inter connected house. 
> Tier 4 generators in the EPA CFR 40 is the Federal code what covers this, & 
> you are allowed 100 hours of run time for standby power and maintenance per 
> year.
> Q - Why am I using ridiculous sized generators for something that an 82-8300 
> watt generator does just fine?
> A - The EPA current requirements, a shrinking economy, & manufacturers that 
> have to meet very expensive air quality compliance.
> The Penalty - If you get caught running a “standby power only” generator the 
> fine is now $39,000 per day!
> Now I am far from a polluting kind of individual and all for air quality but 
> this is getting the best of us. The 13KW air cooled generators are only good 
> for 2000 hours, & the water cooled go 20 years of moderate usage but cost a 
> boat load. I hate having the “Generator” talk with a new client they look at 
> me like I am crazy. So the air cooled units are basically throwaways and the 
> 22KW units are way more than we need and what a client needs to spend money 
> on, unless you are at 10,000 ft el.
>  
> If you figure 30 amps/120 VAC input per inverter +/- x 2 = 7.2KW plus say 
> 10-15% fudge or elevation factors would require an 8200-8300 watt generator. 
> Air cooled at 3600 RPM = 80 MPH & 1800 RPM = 40 MPH.  Even if the generator 
> were a bit smaller, ran slow (1200-1800 rpm) and ran a bit longer that would 
> be acceptable.
> So, why are we installing even 13KW air cooled or 22 KW water generators?
> There is a business opportunity here folks.
>  
> What are you all installing?
> Why?
> Is it reliable?
> Would you use it on your house?
>  
> Thanks for sharing all the wisdom and knowledge.
>  
> 
> Dana Orzel
> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
> E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com
> O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003 - No FAX Line
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" 
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>  
>  
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] RTS interference?

[RE Ellison]

Hate to ask, but, is it on the negative terminal?

 

Bob

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Jerry Shafer
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2015 8:18 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] RTS interference?

 

Never had a problem with DC .
Jerry

On Apr 12, 2015 6:16 AM, "frenergy"  wrote:

Hey folks,

   Has anyone found a problem running a RTS cable in FMC conduit with the 
battery-to-inverter cables?

Thanks,

Bill
Feather River Solar Electric 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] 3" Pipe Fittings/Pinning

[RE Ellison]

If you know somebody with a well drilling rig and a sense of humor pound a few 
6 inch holes in the correct places set the pipe in Cross drilled with rebar in 
it and set the posts in concrete 

A big core drill might work also The 6 inch holes give you room to move things 
around to line them up correctly

I have one up here that I may have to do that on luckily I know a guy with a 
well drilling rig that I have done some favors for in the past


Bob Ellison

> On May 6, 2015, at 10:56 PM, AE Solar  wrote:
> 
> Does anyone have a products/methods they recommend for pinning 3” galve pipe 
> to rock for a ground mount? I have a situation where I am pretty sure pinning 
> will be our best option for some of the posts, but I’m not finding any kee 
> klamp or similar fittings for 3” pipe.  Thanks for any thoughts/tips...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Adam Katzman
> Autonomous Energies
> 4872 State Route 9G 
> Germantown NY, 12526
> www.autonomousenergies.com
> (518) 567-1468
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Array easily adjustable from 30 to 90 degrees

[RE Ellison]

Try www.ussolarmounts.com 

 

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Richard L Ratico
Sent: Wednesday, May 20, 2015 1:33 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array easily adjustable from 30 to 90 degrees

 

Hi Wrenches,

 

Can anyone recommend a commercially available, ground mount array racking
system with an adjustment range of 30 to 90 degrees. Ideally this would be
easily accomplished by one person.

Here in Vermont, in winter, the 90 degree, vertical orientation can provide
satisfactory production while virtually eliminating the need to manually
clear snow from the modules. This is particularly helpful in off-grid,
seasonal home situations, when no one is available to do the clearing, but
expensive batteries still need to be charged. I've contacted DPW already,
and am awaiting a return call from their engineers, but so far, it seems
they may not be willing or able to provide a solution.

 

Thank you,

Dick Ratico

Solarwind Electric

Bradford, VT

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hot water heater heat pumps

[RE Ellison]

They will have to pry my toilet from my cold dead rear end


Bob Ellison

> On May 26, 2015, at 11:21 PM, Dan Fink  wrote:
> 
> If you are doing a replacement or new, anything 55 gallons and below is just 
> extra insulation and slightly more efficient heating (and slightly larger 
> size). Above 55 gallons, the mandate is basically new technology. I work only 
> off the grid, and heat pump electric uses as much energy as a full size 
> refrigerator, not an option (unless maybe with a timer as suggested in this 
> thread, and a large PV system). The gas side of the mandate is condensing 
> heaters that recover waste flue heat; we already have those on the on-demand 
> side. Hopefully the SWAT teams can do double duty and seize toilets that use 
> too many gallons per flush also.
> 
> Dan Fink
> Buckville Energy
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for: 
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> NABCEP / IREC / ISPQ Accredited Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
> 
>  
> 
>> On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 3:35 PM, Tom Lane  wrote:
>> The water heater heat pump tanks , I am referring to are ONLY FOR HEATING 
>> DOMESTIC HOT WATER for washing clothes , showers , baths , and dish washing 
>> . On April 15 the Feds mandated all new standards for water heaters , ALL 
>> ELECTRIC AND GAS HOT WATER HEATERS ARE NOW ABOUT TWO INCHES IN DIAMETER AND 
>> SIX INCHES TALLER that were MANUFACTURED AFTER THAT DATE . All 66 , 80 and 
>> 120 gallon electric water heaters were OUTLAWED except for Solar Hot Water 
>> Tanks  and 80 gallon water heater heat pumps are  allowed . The normal size 
>> 30 , 40 ,  and 55 gallon electric and gas water heaters are now wider and 
>> taller ! Water heater heat pump tanks are usually 55 or 50 gallons or 80 
>> gallons and have a heat pump only ,  hybrid ( heat pump and electric )  , 
>> electric only and off modes - for vacation . The idiot Feds think they 
>> should be used all over the USA , however , my research , sez to only use 
>> them in hot humid climates in garages ( which they will cool and dehumidify 
>> ) in climates in the h
>>  ot humid south and East Texas . Do your own research , or look at the 
>> research done at the Florida Solar Energy Center  . GatorTom PS : rumor has 
>> it that the Feds may rescind  the order from their hot water Czar on 80 and 
>> 120 gallon electric water heaters ! Or maybe they  will send SWAT teams into 
>> plumbing supply houses to check on that and also their outlawing brass 
>> fittings with tiny amounts of lead .
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate Drop and Charge Functions

[RE Ellison]

I doubt that Outback could change the Mate and improve it. I still find it 
difficult to deal with and switched to Magnum for that reason.

In my opinion the “improvements” made to the MX 60 in moving to the FM 60 were 
not an improvement. I have a customer with 2 identical racks and the MX60 did 
better every time we checked.

 

Just my opinion,

Bob 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of jay
Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2015 12:23 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Mate Drop and Charge Functions

 

Hi All,

 

I’m with William, Its happened a number of times.

 

But I doubt that outback is going to change anything with the mate 1.

 

jay

 

peltz power

 

 

On Jul 12, 2015, at 9:00 AM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote:

 

i have had this happen, but only with one very elderly customer who didnt know 
what he was doing. he is 93 now, and has wisely hired a neighbor to maintain 
his system.

 

having people "press buttons" who dont understand their function or correct 
settings is a recipe for problems. a ruined battery bank is an expensive lesson.

 

in all my years of designing and building systems (mostly all off-grid) i only 
had one customer who was so challenged with flying the system, that after she 
destroyed two sets of battery banks in 5 years, she decided living off-grid was 
too complicated, and she moved back to town. she rented her place and the 
renters actually operated the system with no problem.

 

the point is, some people are better at understanding and operating a 
battery/inverter/solar system than others. sure, the MATE could be easier, but 
i have never had any difficulty navigating and changing the menu settings and 
options. usually it is "operator/customer error".

 

todd

 

 bers.re-wrenches.org

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] co-op rules.

[RE Ellison]

What happens in July when most overproduce and in December when we are way
under production?
I think if they are talking averages it might be ok but otherwise it is a
problem.

Didn't co-op's used to be excluded from net metering anyway?

Just thinking,
Bob

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Solar
Sent: Saturday, August 01, 2015 11:48 AM
To: Wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] co-op rules.

Hello all,

I was at a get together lastnight and was taking to one of the higher ups at
my electrical co-op. He informed me that effective now they will not allow
any member to interconnect a renewable energy system that has the potential
to create more than 50% of their monthly electrical usage. 

Are any of you seeing a similar rule? He told me "everyone is going to this
now". 

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery bank calculator

[RE Ellison]

I don't think it can be done accurately with a sizing tool i've actually never 
heard of a tool at least not that I can remember

There's far too many variables.
Everything from loads to solar isolation as well as the habits of the 
individual occupants and the appliance selection in the home

The old joke used to be calculate what you needed for three days and then 
double it as far as battery bank size

Just a few thoughts, batten five dollars will get your cuppa coffee and a lot 
of convenient stores

Bob Ellison



> On Sep 15, 2015, at 9:21 AM, gary easton  wrote:
> 
> anyone have a suggestion for a battery bank sizing tool?  
> 
> -- 
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Current limiting fuse at battery bank

[RE Ellison]

At an absolute minimum a current limiting the fuse at the battery bank is 
required if not by the law by common sense

In banks with multiple strings in the past I have fused each string
I have seen banks in the past where a single battery failed and for lack of a 
better description the others ganged up on it 
The results were not pretty!

Sometimes we're dealing with thousands of dollars worth of batteries and a 30 
or $35 fuse never seemed to be that big of a deal in the overall scheme of 
things

I sleep better at night that way!

Just another guy's opinion,
Bob ellison

> On Oct 22, 2015, at 10:25 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> I agree, fuse it
> 
> Jerry
> 
>> On Oct 22, 2015 3:26 PM, "Tom Ruscitti"  wrote:
>> On battery based systems I always install a Class T fuse as close to the 
>> battery bank as possible. 690.71(C) is a little vague in requiring a current 
>> limiting fuse only where the available short-circuit current from the 
>> battery bank exceeds the interrupting ratings of the inverter breaker. 
>> Inverter breakers vary in their interrupting ratings and battery banks are 
>> big current sources when things go wrong, so it's just a sensible best 
>> practice. My question is about service work on systems we didn't install. 
>> We're quoting the second job this year for battery replacement where there 
>> is no current limiting fuse installed. It's always a tough question to judge 
>> what extra work might be required when you touch another contractor's 
>> system, but does anyone have an opinion about recommending or requiring the 
>> installation of a fuse at the battery box as part of the battery replacement?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> - Tom
>> 
>> -- 
>> Tom Ruscitti
>> Senior Engineer
>> 
>> Taitem Engineering, PC
>> 110 S. Albany Street, Ithaca, NY 14850
>> Mobile: (607) 220-7022
>> www.taitem.com
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Odd battery problem - very low SG in only one cell

[RE Ellison]

I have seen a high number of Trojan L 16's losing single cells for no apparent 
reason

Probably starting five or six years ago
Many on battery banks for the people that had banks previously and gotten 10 or 
12 years life out of them so I wouldn't expect anything different on the 
replacements

All I can think of is that something has changed in the Trojan L 16's
Couldn't tell you why but there's been too many failures to have any other 
reason
As usual this is just my opinion!

Bob



> On Nov 23, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Starlight Solar Power Systems 
>  wrote:
> 
> Dan,
> 
> Last week I had a 3+ year old Trojan L16H-AC with one dead middle cell, SG 
> shows water. The bank has 8 batteries and the customer is diligent about 
> maintenance and charging. I wish I knew why this happens but it seems over 
> the last few years like there is a pattern with Trojan L16’s.  
> 
>  Larry
> 
> 
> On Nov 22, 2015, at 7:49 AM, Dan Fink  wrote:
> 
> Esteemed Wrenches;
> 
> I'm looking for input on what could be going on with a battery bank at the 
> college I teach for. It's a stand-alone system with 4 Trojan 12v T-1275 in 
> series / parallel for 24v, 660w of PV, running only a drainback solar hot 
> water system for space heating. So, 3 pumps and 3 DTCs, max load 100 watts 
> and doesn't run all that often, outback CC is usually in float. The batteries 
> are only 2.5 years old and are regularly maintained.
> 
> My lab class tested and maintained the battery bank last week, and on one 
> battery there was one cell, in the middle of the battery, with a SG so low it 
> wouldn't even register on our refractometer or midnite hydrometer. That 
> battery reads about 0.2v lower than the others. All the other cells in that 
> battery read reasonable SG, with 2 cells on the downstream side reading SG 
> slightly low, but still in reasonable range. This was of course all before 
> topping up the electrolyte with distilled water.
> 
> Our troubleshooting exercise looked at:
> ~ Measurement error? Nope, I was right there supervising and 2 different lab 
> classes got the same results with 2 different instruments;
> ~ Stratification? A suspicion especially since the system is usually in 
> float. We equalized twice, no change in SG. I DID hear that likely this was 
> the first time the batteries had ever been equalized, but no way to know for 
> sure.
> ~ Spilled electrolyte from tipped battery replaced with water by a previous 
> instructor's class? Can't see this, all the other cells would have lost 
> electrolyte too;
> ~ A student accidentally discharged electrolyte into the bucket instead of 
> back in the cell, then was replaced by distilled water when topping up? I 
> can't see that either, the midnite hydrometer needs only a small sample.
> 
> So, I'm left with "likely we have a cell that is failing for some reason" and 
> students secretly smug that the professor is also stumped.
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> 
> Dan Fink
> Adjunct Professor, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for: 
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Accredited Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
> 
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Frozen T-105s

[RE Ellison]

Regarding thawing frozen batteries be real careful they can take an incredibly 
long time to thaw .

Lotta lead there to get up to temperature it is not in a hurry

Just my .02 !

Bob

> On Dec 3, 2015, at 1:54 PM, Dan Fink  wrote:
> 
> Yes, you MUST thaw them completely first before trying anything, Sorry, I 
> thought that went without saying.
> Good point on the cost-benefit analysis, but when the cost of transportation 
> of a new battery bank and removal of the old exceeds the retail price by 2 - 
> 10x, it's worth trying. If the client can just drive an hour to Sam's Club 
> and buy another set, a $600 service call is likely not worth it. Just direct 
> them to the Battery University website and wash your hands of it.
> 
> Dan Fink
> Adjunct Professor, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for: 
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Accredited Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
> 
>  
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 3, 2015 at 9:14 AM, d...@solarwork.com  
>> wrote:
>> My experience with frozen batteries has ranges from plates being pushed 
>> around and consequently shorting to literally the size of the battery being 
>> broken open.
>> The first rule is never try to charge a frozen battery the battery needs to 
>> be thawed first before even attempting to charge I have stop trying to 
>> revive batteries that are that far gone.
>> 
>> Dana Orzel 208.721.7003
>> Encourage Free Thinking Self Responsible Free Range Children
>> 
>> On Dec 3, 2015, at 7:00 AM, Feather River Solar Electric  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hey Folks,
>> 
>> I came across an off-gridder yesterday whom was getting zero support 
>> from the dealer he had purchased his small system from, self installed, 
>> batteries in a lightly insulated box outside.  When I inspected the 
>> electrolyte levels I discovered it was frozen in some cells, the voltage of 
>> the 48 volt pack was ~8 volts, I didn't check individual batteries due to 
>> these facts...I'd seen "enough".  Recently temps have been in the high 
>> teens, though we are back up to low 30's.
>> 
>> He does not have a genny or battery charger! I have a DC genny which 
>> I could use to charge these batteries but should I waste my time and his 
>> money trying to save them?  Others' experience with this situation?
>> 
>> TIA,
>> 
>> Bill
>> 
>> -- 
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> Bill Battagin, Owner
>> 4291 Nelson St.
>> Taylorsville, CA 95983
>> 530.284.7849
>> CA Lic 874049
>> www.frenergy.net
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Charge Settings.

[RE Ellison]

OK Steve now you got me thinking,
Some would say that's a bad idea!

Using the voltage settings you're speaking of what would you recommend for 
equalize charging ?

I have always thought that different settings for different times of year was 
logical but you're getting your bulk up you know what I would normally consider 
to be a low side of the equalization charge.

Understood that rolls charge differently than a lot of other batteries I 
believe it's due to plate density?

Thanks, 
bob ellison

> On Jan 19, 2016, at 8:52 AM, Steve Higgins  wrote:
> 
> Good Morning Wrenches…
>  
> I’d like to take the recent Trojan thread to throw this out there!
>  
> With the IEC certification, many battery manufactures are being forced to 
> recommend higher settings to charge their batteries.   The problem with off 
> grid systems, or even some grid back up systems is the settings can/will vary 
> from end user to end user and can be very difficult to determine.   Try to 
> avoid setting up a system and assuming that those settings will be good year 
> round as settings in most systems need to adjusted at least twice, sometimes 
> up to three times a year.
>  
> For example, we are almost finished with IEC testing, the way they do this 
> testing in short is they take a battery, charge it to full using mfg 
> suggested settings, discharge it to 100% and they cycle the battery until it 
> comes to full capacity.Don’t quote me, but IEC testing requires the 
> batteries to come to full charge within the first 8-10 cycles.   To do so, 
> you need to be very aggressive on the charging settings.
>  
> Now, most customers don’t cycle to 100% depth of discharge so end users don’t 
> need to be so aggressive on charger settings, but we will be publishing 
> revised charging parameters and instructions in the coming quarter.   Bottom 
> line, Bulk/Absorb Voltages @ 25 Deg C you will be advised to charge the Rolls 
> Batteries at 2.45 to 2.5vpc.  This number will vary based on how much the 
> customer is using the system.  A weekender cabin with a decent sized  array 
> (<10% of C20 Charge Current) will need closer to 2.4 to 2.45vpc, while a full 
> timer (daily heavy cycles)  will need a setting closer to the 2.5vpc rating.  
>  
>  
> Remember, regardless of where you are in the world, unless the batteries are 
> installed in a temperature controlled room where it fluctuates less than ½  
> degree C, you should ALWAYS, ALWAYS use battery temperature compensation.   
> Failure to do so, will always result in premature failure of the batteries.
>  
> Settings are generally a suggestion, the problem is they (customers) should 
> be looking at the SG’s at least on a quarterly basis and adjusting settings 
> when necessary.   Lower trending SG equal higher settings, higher SG equal 
> lower settings.  I find that too many people set up settings and forget them, 
> until they have a problem.   Normally I find with most customers they should 
> have a bit lower settings from April to Sept, while settings should be higher 
> from Oct thru March.  
>  
> Remember, the battery companies you are dealing with generally don’t have a 
> lot of experience in solar… they are used to industrial applications where 
> you see 8-12 hours of charging every single day.We all know that in most 
> Off grid systems you are lucky to get 3-5 hours, at best of decent charging a 
> day.
>  
>  
>  
> Steve Higgins
> Technical Services Manager
> P: +1.902.597.4020
> M: +1.206.790.5840
> F: +1.902.597.8447
> Surrette Battery Company
> Exclusive manufacturer of
> 
> 
> 
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Theo Van
> Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 8:44 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16 charge settings
>  
>  
> No "settings recommend by Trojn"were shown. 
> On Jan 18, 2016, at 6:43 PM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Colleagues:
>  
> I have an off-grid customer for whom I replaced a set of 8 Trojan L-16s as 
> well as upgrading her inverter and charge controller.  Right after the job, 
> we found several batteries with low specific gravity.  We spoke with the 
> local distributor and received two replacement batteries.
>  
> The system continues to perform poorly.  The customer EQs every 30 days to 60 
> plus volts for 3 hours.  They try to get a full bulk and absorption charge in 
> every day but this time of year may not. The specific gravity readings 
> continue to diverge and generally go lower.
>  
> We contacted the distributor who told us they have had problems with Trojan 
> batteries since the company was sold about two years ago.  We were told they 
> had a brand X battery that tested better than the Trojans.  We agreed to try 
> the Brand X but then were told that we had not charged the Trojans 
> adequately.  Below are the settings recommended directly by Trojan
>  
> These settings are significantly higher than any I have used before.  Also, I 
> don’t recall it

Re: [RE-wrenches] Solarworld

[RE Ellison]

Good morning,

Are they one of the ones that are being put out as knockoffs ?
You know what I mean, cheap counterfeit make everything look good, make the 
label look exceptional grab the money and run panels ?

I certainly hope not, I have had exceptionally good luck with solar World and 
their predecessors!

Later,
Bob

> On Jan 20, 2016, at 7:59 PM, AE Solar  wrote:
> 
> What's your definition of cheap...and for which size panels?
> 
>> On Wednesday, January 20, 2016, Jerry Shafer  
>> wrote:
>> I deal with Platt as there are very close to the SW factory
>> Jerry
>> 
>>> On Jan 20, 2016 1:58 PM, "Drake"  
>>> wrote:
>>> A lot of ads for cheap Solarworld modules come into my inbox. Does anyone 
>>> know why they are so cheap? Does anyone have a trusted distributor for 
>>> bargain Solarworld modules?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Drake
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
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> 
> -- 
> Adam Katzman
> Autonomous Energies
> PO Box 1245
> Kingston, NY 12402
> www.autonomousenergies.com
> (518) 567-1468
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Old Net Metering

[RE Ellison]

I'm far from an expert on this but it seems that I remember when the hubbub was 
going on about this series inverter that the present operating ones could 
continue most of them had that have the add on box

I would be very surprised if after it has been disconnected from the grid and 
shut down for two years if they would let it reconnect

I think they would treat it like a new install 

But that's just my opinion,
Bob

> On Feb 9, 2016, at 2:22 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:
> 
> Greetings Esteemed Wrenches;
> 
> I just received an interesting call from an owner of a late 1990s vintage GTB 
> system here in Colorado.  (Trace SW4048 I'm guessing) The tenants had 
> disconnected the grid for almost 2 years and lived in the house off grid.  
> They had also done many scary wiring "upgrades" using speaker wire out of the 
> main AC load center.
> The tenants are gone, the AC load center was cleaned up, and the owner wants 
> to reconnect the GT system, but the utility is not allowing it since they 
> were disconnected for 2 years.  I'm still trying to find out what the 
> requirements are, but I wanted to ping the list and see what experience 
> anyone had, and what requirements might be placed in this situation.
> It seems to me that this system should be grand fathered in and not be 
> required to meet more than 1999 NEC, but I've never dealt with this scenario 
> before.  Requiring this to meet 2014 NEC would be insane, and even meeting 
> 2008 NEC would be a deal killer, as the old SW inverters were not UL 1741 
> compliant.  (wasn't even around in 1998 I believe)
> My plan was to inspect the entire system, retorque connections, perform any 
> necessary repairs, and just confirm compliance with NEC 1999.  There would be 
> little point, if the utility or AHJ required compliance with a newer code 
> though.
> 
> Thanks as always for any assistance,
> 
> -- 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[RE Ellison]

I have a customer with a Perkins from Hardy Diesel in an insulated building 
with a wall mount propane heater

Constant propane use most of the winter but it keeps a small building warm enuf 
that starting the generator is not a problem it happens to be a diesel

That made more sense for his installation then block heaters and all the rest 
of that

Plus the inverters and the battery bank are in a nice comfortable room

This one happens to be a 16 kW with a Perkins power plant

Bob

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 7:00 PM, jerrysgarage01  wrote:
> 
> Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming 
> issues but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid
> Jerry
> 
> 
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Ray Walters
> Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
> 
> FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as long 
> as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post) and the 
> starter battery is kept fully charged.
> This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below 0, 
> but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
> We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them. 
> Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging 
> (must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to 
> call customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.  
> This is off grid with no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope 
> Generac reps are lurking here, because these are really not much better than 
> the crop of stand by generators.
>  IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell 
> service to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>> On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:
>> Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana 
>> 12.5 kW w Subaru 
>> 
>> Jeremy Rodriguez 
>> Solar Installation And Design Expert 
>> All Solar, Inc.
>> 1463 M St
>> Penrose Colorado 81240
>> 
>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
>> 
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky  wrote:
>> 
>>> I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid 
>>> propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 
>>> yrs ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.
>>> 
>>> We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and 
>>> we run into 2 main problem areas:
>>> 
>>> First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid 
>>> use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 
>>> year).
>>> 
>>> Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the 
>>> "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather 
>>> kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, 
>>> but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on 
>>> all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the 
>>> Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do 
>>> battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual 
>>> switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore 
>>> since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset 
>>> computer.
>>> 
>>> The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA 
>>> considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are 
>>> held to tougher emissions standards.
>>> 
>>> Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these 
>>> days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES 
>>> from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going 
>>> back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how 
>>> are cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions appreciated!
>>> 
>>> Lena Wilensky
>>> 
>>> www.nunatakenergy.com
>>> 970-642-5554
>>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
>>> Cert. #R02907-17
>>> 
>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[RE Ellison]

Check out the hardy Diesel15 kW Perkins
It's available and integrated fuel tank single or double walland a whole bunch 
of other goodies including autostart comes along with it

Like I mentioned in the last message the The folks I know they're in real cool 
places put them in a small insulated building with a small propane wall heater

Starting doesn't seem to be an issue and the belief is that it is cheaper than 
running an electric heater

Later
Bob

> On Apr 29, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Dana  wrote:
> 
> Ditto here, if there is a 10-15KW, 1800 RPM water cooled generator out there, 
> please share. The EPA requirements & definitions have killed every source I 
> have had. An air cooled 3600 RPM generator is good for about 2000+/- hours 
> before rebuild or replacement. Add to that the noise levels @ 3600 RPM, yuck.
> There is a real biz opportunity here for a company to fill this niche.
>  
> 
> Dana Orzel
> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
> E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com
> O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" 
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>  
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Ray Walters
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:15 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
>  
> I haven't seen anything from them that looks like what we're after  We'd be 
> looking for 10kW to 15 kW  water cooled 1800 rpm. Propane fired.
> Everyone makes models in the 30kW + range that fit the bill, but most off 
> grid systems don't need anything that big.
> Do you have a model that I should be looking at?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 4/28/2016 5:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:
> Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming 
> issues but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid
> Jerry
>  
>  
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>  
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Ray Walters
> Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
>  
> FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as long 
> as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post) and the 
> starter battery is kept fully charged.
> This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below 0, 
> but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
> We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them. 
> Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging 
> (must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to 
> call customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.  
> This is off grid with no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope 
> Generac reps are lurking here, because these are really not much better than 
> the crop of stand by generators.
>  IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell 
> service to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?
> 
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:
> Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana 
> 12.5 kW w Subaru 
> 
> Jeremy Rodriguez 
> Solar Installation And Design Expert 
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1463 M St
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>  
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
> 
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky  wrote:
> 
> I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid propane 
> generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so 
> I was hoping to get some more current info.
>  
> We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and we 
> run into 2 main problem areas:
>  
> First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid 
> use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 year).
>  
> Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the 
> "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather kit" 
> aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, but also 
> for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on all the time 
> from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the Kohler tech support 
> it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do battery charge only 
> during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual switch, but it sounds 
> like we can't really get at these circuits anymore since 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Winter Battery Maintenance

[RE Ellison]

Everything mentioned so far works well however, if you're using a charge 
controller with an auto equalize function.

Turn it off!

I had a friend who has left his system over the winter for years with no issues 
and he shut his inverters off one year got back to the batteries being boiled 
dry

After a lot of looking I figured out that it had gone into auto equalize and 
since the available sunshine per day was so low that it just kept trying all 
winter long to equalize the batteries

There was a battery replacement in his future relatively quickly!

It was an expensive lesson and I have since gone to all of the systems similar 
to that that I have installed over the years and shut off the auto equalize

It's not an issue if somebody's around but they were gone for like five months 
and it was not a good outcome

This particular system had three charge controllers,
A combination of MX 60 and FM 60s I believe

Just my thoughts,
Bob ellison





> On Apr 30, 2016, at 12:43 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote:
> 
> i built a system for a friend's seasonal (summer) off-grid residence in 
> alaska.
>  
> my instructions were simple:
> leave the pv input & cc output breakers "on" and the load breakers (inverter, 
> dc sunfrost etc) "off".
>  
> there was never a problem with winter freezing (even at -40f) until one year 
> when he accidently left the inverter's breaker on. even with no load, the 
> inverter's idle current drained the batteries and they froze. he only made 
> that mistake once.
>  
> todd
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> On Saturday, April 30, 2016 8:13am, "Solar"  said:
> 
> > I do systems like this every year. (-45F winter temps). Use quick connects 
> > and
> > train the customer on the batteries and their maintenance. Find bats with 
> > freeze
> > points that match your area. I typically mount the modules at 90degree so 
> > snow
> > never covers the array/module.
> > 
> > I always recommend removal. I've thought about temp controlled incandescent 
> > lamp
> > with a timer in a battery box for really cold nights Haven't got around 
> > to
> > working through that design.
> > 
> > I'm interested in the real seasoned off-grid installers thoughts about this.
> > 
> > Jesse Dahl
> > 
> > NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> > IBEW Local 292 - Electrician
> > Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC
> > 
> > Sent from my iPhone
> > 
> > > On Apr 30, 2016, at 9:07 AM, AE Solar 
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hey Wrenchers,
> > >
> > > A friend wants a very small battery set up at hunting cabin (like under 
> > > 1kW).
> > It will only be used in the warmer months. I'm wondering what you all 
> > recommend
> > for the batteries over the winter. I assume the ideal situation would be 
> > that they
> > would be disconnected and brought somewhere warm for the winter (the cabin 
> > will be
> > subject to below freezing temps)??
> > >
> > > So long as they go into the colder months with a full charge is it 
> > > alright to
> > leave them hooked up? I don't think the friend will be savvy enough to
> > disconnect/connect them every year and I don't feel like having to go out 
> > there
> > every season for them.
> > >
> > > Thanks for any thoughts.
> > > Adam
> > >
> > > Adam Katzman
> > > Autonomous Energies
> > >
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Canadian Solar / MC4 connectors in a marine environment

[RE Ellison]

A product I have used for years is called lexel 
It's paintable scrubbable and it's got strong adhesive in it you can put on a 
wet surface it will seal !

I have it on some antenna connections that have been there for better than 25 
years and it is still there doing the job

I wouldn't hesitate to put A dab around the glands on the ends where the wire 
comes out

For the center connections where they join I would probably wrap it in 
electrical tape to cover the seam and then put this over the tape

I wouldn't want to bet that in six months or five years or longer if you don't 
have that taped over that you're going to get the stuff to let you open those 
without cutting it off

If sealing is the problem this will seal it, no if's and's or buts about it !

Later, 
Bob Ellison 




> On Jun 6, 2016, at 11:14 PM, jay  wrote:
> 
> Hi Kirk,
> the connectors if done correctly are water tight.  
> There are few thoughts as to issues.
> 
> wrong sized gland nut
> incorrectly tightened
> if double jacketed wire, the outer layer could have come lose allowing water 
> in.
> are they real MC-4?
> 
> debris during installation allowing damaged O rings
> 
> Can’t think of much else. but way to many of them out there for it to be a 
> OEM problem.
> 
> jay
> peltz power
>> On Jun 6, 2016, at 2:28 PM, Kirk Herander  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>>  
>> I am debugging a Florida ocean-side 35 kw array using 4 year old Canadian 
>> Solar panels, which I’ve never had a high opinion of, installed by others.
>> I’ve discovered several not-so-good problems, such as low insulation 
>> resistance through the panels, ONLY when raining, early to mid-morning 
>> condensation, or by using the last resort of spraying the panels with a 
>> garden house and watching the SMA inverters shut down due to failing their 
>> self “Riso” (that’s the IRT) test creating a ground fault error.
>> That aside, what’s just as interesting is that about 8 or 9 of the module 
>> interconnections were basically oozing the aqua-blue copper tarnish. I’ve 
>> never seen this in any installation before. Either the MC4s weren’t crimped 
>> and tightened at the factory well, or the connectors were seated poorly, 
>> although that doesn’t seem to be the case. BTW, I replaced all these dubious 
>> MC4 connectors and the ground faults still occur when the panels are wet.
>> The bigger issue is the panel warranty, but is there anything on the market 
>> which could seal these connections, perhaps a type of “clamshell” to provide 
>> an extra layer of protection, which is removable if need be? There’s always 
>> glue-filled heat shrink, but ideally I don’t want anything permanent 
>> surrounding the connectors.
>> Has anyone ever seen what I’m describing in a marine environment?
>>  
>> Kirk Herander
>> Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC 
>> Celebrating our 25th Anniversary 1991-2016
>> www.vermontsolarnow.com
>> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>> NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant
>> VT RE Incentive Program Partner
>> 802.863.1202
>>  
>>  
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[RE-wrenches] US Solar

[RE Ellison]

Is anybody having problems contacting US solar?

I've tried three different phones and two different numbers with no success

Just wondering,
Bob Ellison
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Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner

[RE Ellison]

I think the designer was Robin Gudgel for the BOS gear
Bob Gudgel is the genius behind the MX and Classic and other electronics but my 
memory could be incorrect

From my point of view they both qualify as geniuses !

Bob Ellison

> On Oct 12, 2016, at 2:36 PM, William Miller  wrote:
> 
> Drake:
>  
> Your point brings to mind the evolution of the BOS cabinet:
>  
> 1.In the good old days of the SW inverter, the DC cabinet was all you 
> got, and it was grossly inadequate.  Off-the-shelf load centers were the only 
> choice for the AC side.  AC bypassing was a relatively new concept but it 
> could be done.
> 2.Prior to having an approved inverter, Outback manufactured a brilliant 
> system of BOS that fit the SW, the DR and the future FX series of inverters 
> (the PS series).  I believe BoB Gudgel is responsible for this design and it 
> was genius. 
> 3.Even with improved BOS, there are the shortcomings we have been 
> discussing.  There is always room for improvement and I am hoping our 
> discussion drives more of that.
>  
> I too believe that plug-on AC breakers are the superior alternative.  They 
> are cheap and readily available.  Generally two load centers are required, 
> one for generator fed and one for inverter fed.  GTBB systems might call for 
> a third panel: utility fed.  Bypass is the only issue that calls for 
> considerations out of the ordinary for standard load center installations.  
> Most panel manufacturers provide limited interlock methods.  Where we need to 
> interlock more than two breakers we fab our own slides.  Sure, they are not 
> “listed” but they are a simple mechanical device and I am comfortable using 
> them.
>  
> There are some challenges to overcome when integrating specialized inverter 
> equipment with standard electrical components.  For example, connecting 
> standard load centers to an FX inverter is problematic because the FX KOs are 
> so far from the mounting surface.  This is the part of the work that I enjoy 
> immensely.  We really want to make installations that are reliable, efficient 
> to install and look good.  I have a friend in the entertainment industry that 
> once said, “aesthetically pleasing installation are more reliable…”  True 
> words.
>  
> Thanks for you input.
>  
> William
>  
>  
> 
> Lic 773985
> millersolar.com
> 805-438-5600
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Drake
> Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2016 6:36 AM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV Recombiner
>  
> DC breaker systems should be designed similar to AC bolt on breaker systems 
> that are used for many commercial and industrial applications. 
> 
> The explanation for the fact that these don't exist has to do with the cost 
> of designing and listing the equipment. There is no technical reason that a 
> DC enclosure needs to be any more difficult to wire than an off the shelf AC 
> box. 
> 
> The AC breakers in any solar enclosure should certainly be standard snap on 
> breakers. Once the power has been inverted to AC, there is no reason  to 
> require anything other than standard code requirements. 
> 
> Drake Chamberlin
> Athens Electric LLC
> OH License 44810
> CO License 3773
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV 
> 740-448-7328
> http://athens-electric.com/ 
> 
> At 11:31 PM 10/10/2016, you wrote:
> 
> My students we just today complaining about the access to wires on the panel 
> mount breakers. The lug idea with separators might be a fix. It definitely 
> needs to be done differently. In class We added another inverter to our 
> package and trying to install another 175A breaker was a pain. We have a few 
> other DC breakers in there already. The whole cabinet is basically 
> inaccessible. 
> 
> Jesse Dahl
> 
> NABCEP PV Installation Professional
> IBEW Local 292 - Electrician 
> Electrical/Solar PV Instructor - HCC
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 10, 2016, at 9:40 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> 
> You might want to look at the square D QO breaker line some are dc rated and 
> voltage rated and are panel mounted.
> Jerry
> 
> On Oct 10, 2016 3:00 PM, "jay"  wrote:
> I†ll chime in here.
> 
> Yes the GSLC is a piece of junk. 
> However it is UL listed for the job. And while you could put together 
> something that would work with Airpax breakers together, but it wouldn’t be 
> UL.
> 
> What I do is to swap out all the wires to Arctic ultra flex.  This allows 
> much better movement of the wires with significantly less stress on the 
> terminals.   And if you want to not attach wires to the back of the breakers 
> then you can and I’ve seen outback do it, install lay in lugs facing 
> outwards so you can use a screwdriver or allen key on them.  Allows for 
> installation and removal of wire without removal of the breaker or the 
> plate/breakers.  With thimbles of course. And I can’t find them but I know 
> they make them, shields that fit between each breaker so the lay in lugs are 

[RE-wrenches] Amphenol h4 vs MC4

[RE Ellison]

I have a bunch of panels here to put in with an Amphenol H4 connector
Seems like I remember some issues connecting some of the other connectors to 
the MC 4's

Do these hook up with the MC 4's without any issues or do I need to find some 
of the H4 connectors to use ?

Thanks,
Bob Ellison
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Retrofit variable speed drive to old well pump?

[RE Ellison]

Don't know about the variable speed but are the wires feeding the pump large 
enough for the distance?
Sounds like it might be voltage starved because of a high resistance / bad 
connection or a long wire run and the need for a larger wire ?

Just a thought,
Bob Ellison

> On Dec 10, 2016, at 11:39 AM, Dan Fink  wrote:
> 
> Esteemed Wrenches;
> 
> I have a client in a very remote mountain location who is having trouble with 
> his inverter starting his well pump when battery state of charge is below 
> 75%. 24v system, Magnum inverter. 
> 
> It's a 2-wire pump, unknown age, model, horsepower, or well depth. It has 
> always given him trouble, that's why he upgraded to 24v, and the situation is 
> better, but not ideal yet. I don't think adding a hard start capacitor would 
> help as there should be one inside the pump itself, though I suppose it could 
> be blown.
> 
> Because of the distance and the rough road, it would be super expensive for a 
> well company to come up there, pull the old pump and set a new, modern 
> soft-start one.
> 
> Has anyone here had any experience with retrofitting variable speed drive 
> units to an unknown pump? If so, what models have you tried and what do you 
> prefer?
> 
> Thanks; 
> 
> Dan Fink
> Adjunct Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for: 
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
> 
>  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] FR gear toxicity

[RE Ellison]

Am I safe in assuming that FR is fire resistant ?

Bob

> On Feb 4, 2017, at 6:54 AM, jay  wrote:
> 
> HI All,
> 
> I am wondering if anyone has any information or knows of studies etc that 
> discuss any toxic nature of FR cotton clothing.?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> jay
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sta-Rite Submersible Well Pump

[RE Ellison]

I tangled with one system that had a constant pressure pump
He had moved an off grid system to a location where grid was available And 
wanted to use it as a back up

He ended up selling the entire system once I explain to them the thing was 
never going to stop running at every possible opportunity

It was my first experience with one of those I'll never do it again

Bob ellison

> On Apr 27, 2017, at 6:48 PM, Bradley Bassett  wrote:
> 
> Dana,
> 
> For off grid you may not want to use the constant pressure pumps. They will 
> run a little bit, a lot of the time to keep the pressure constant. I think it 
> might be more efficient to use a pressure switch and regular pressure tank. 
> Anyone with experience in this?
> 
> Brad
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Dana  wrote:
>> My well driller-well pump guy is offering Sta-Rite pumps manufactured by 
>> Pentair [as in Pentair water filtration they seem to be buying lots of water 
>> related companies].
>> 
>> I am curious as to feedback on these, has anyone used them?
>> 
>> Soft start, digital controls, easy programming, stainless steel, 3-year 
>> warranty, & includes a pressure transducer, so no pressure switch required.
>> 
>> My pump guy says he has only had 1 issue on 1 pump in serval hundred 
>> installed. Almost sounds too good to believe.
>> 
>> A bit less $ retail than a Grundfoss but supposedly a whole lot more 
>> reliable.
>> 
>> A 1 HP motor 20 GPM pump draws 4.7 Amp/240 VA as it hits a 60 psi cutout 
>> [1,128 watts peak] though I will set to 30/50 psi.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Comments please…
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
>> 
>> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
>> 
>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
>> 
>> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
>> 
>> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" 
>> 
>> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sta-Rite Submersible Well Pump

[RE Ellison]

Also I could never convince the guy to put in a pressure tank and a switch

The reason he got the pump so we didn't have to have a pressure tank

Bob

> On Apr 27, 2017, at 6:48 PM, Bradley Bassett  wrote:
> 
> Dana,
> 
> For off grid you may not want to use the constant pressure pumps. They will 
> run a little bit, a lot of the time to keep the pressure constant. I think it 
> might be more efficient to use a pressure switch and regular pressure tank. 
> Anyone with experience in this?
> 
> Brad
> 
>> On Wed, Apr 26, 2017 at 8:32 PM, Dana  wrote:
>> My well driller-well pump guy is offering Sta-Rite pumps manufactured by 
>> Pentair [as in Pentair water filtration they seem to be buying lots of water 
>> related companies].
>> 
>> I am curious as to feedback on these, has anyone used them?
>> 
>> Soft start, digital controls, easy programming, stainless steel, 3-year 
>> warranty, & includes a pressure transducer, so no pressure switch required.
>> 
>> My pump guy says he has only had 1 issue on 1 pump in serval hundred 
>> installed. Almost sounds too good to believe.
>> 
>> A bit less $ retail than a Grundfoss but supposedly a whole lot more 
>> reliable.
>> 
>> A 1 HP motor 20 GPM pump draws 4.7 Amp/240 VA as it hits a 60 psi cutout 
>> [1,128 watts peak] though I will set to 30/50 psi.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Comments please…
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
>> 
>> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
>> 
>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
>> 
>> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
>> 
>> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" 
>> 
>> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery load tester purchase advice?

[RE Ellison]

Put one or two of the lightbulbs on a Rheostat and uses for fine control

I got lucky and found an old ohmite load bank real reasonable

Big and bulky you don't want to carry it far !

Bob ellison

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Dan Fink  wrote:
> 
> Thanks to everyone for their input, it really clarified how to get the data 
> Trojan is looking for. I am going to go with what we have in stock as a 
> "Trojan Approved" load tester is out of my price range, and the reasonably 
> priced auto parts store ones hit you 100+ amps plus as they are trying to 
> test CCA, not SOC. I have a voltage logging USB unit along with a current 
> logger and CT. We'll use a small inverter and switchable AC light bulbs for 
> load so that it stays constant at the 25A Trojan wants to see, and in the 
> future we'll be able to adjust it for amperage by switching in and out more 
> light bulbs. 
> 
> Dan Fink
> Professor of Solar Energy Technology, Ecotech Institute
> IREC Certified Instructor™ for: 
> ~ PV Installation Professional
> ~ Small Wind Installer
> Executive Director, Buckville Energy
> NABCEP Registered Continuing Education Providers™
> 970.672.4342
> 
>  
> 
>> On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 2:05 AM, Hugh  wrote:
>> I have used a load resistor on a voltage controlled relay VCS from solar 
>> converters and a USB data logger. I only used the relay because I didn't 
>> want to kill the battery or sit watching. USB voltage loggers are good 
>> things to own anyway.
>> 
>> Hugh
>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] "DC current Injection": Whazzat?

[RE Ellison]

If getting rid of the blender which is the easier choice or at least trying a 
different blender to see if that does it is out of the question

How about the possibility of changing the solar edge to the magnum version of 
the panel inverter that they use to see if there are more compatible?

Possibly disconnect all and try just 1 new panel mount 
to test ?

Just a thought,
Bob ellison

> On Aug 17, 2017, at 9:51 AM, Mick Abraham  wrote:
> 
> Hi, Wrenchies~ 
> 
> My client has an AC coupled battery based setup. The batteries are good ol' 
> lead floodies in pretty good health, the battery based inverter is Magnum 
> MS4448PAE, & the string inverter is SolarEdge. There's also a Magnum ACLD "AC 
> Load Diversion" control to regulate battery state of charge when there's no 
> grid power. 
> 
> When there's no grid power & the system is on it's own, the SE inverter 
> sometimes throws an error code 36 "DC current injection". This happens when 
> the mongo blender is operated (Vitamix brand, older model) & again in a >no 
> public power grid< situation. The error causes the synchronizing string 
> inverter to de-couple from the Magnum then the standard five minute time-out 
> ensues before a re-couple.
> 
> I think DC current injection is when the transformer-less SE inverter pumps a 
> blip of DC into the grid--or micro-grid when there's no grid power--and I 
> guess DC injection is IEEE verboten because it compromises power 
> quality/power purity. Can the experts confirm if this is correct 
> understanding, explain how DC can show up on the AC, and offer suggestions 
> other than a replacement blender?
> 
> Thanks as always. The Wrench List is the Bomb!
> 
> Mick Abraham, Proprietor
> www.abrahamsolar.com
> 
> Landline: 970-731-4675
> Cell phone or for text messaging: 970-946-6584
> ᐧ
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Re: [RE-wrenches] EMP - Faraday Cages

[RE Ellison]

Spent a little time over the last few years trying to study this, there is 
dozens of answers to the same question it seems if you surround it with mesh it 
depends on the spaces size in the mesh and it also depends on the frequency of 
the EMP

I would not bet that just putting a disconnect in the wires would help but 
lightning is capable of jumping miles across the sky I can't imagine that an 
emp would be any different I'm sure it could bridge a gap the size of a breaker 
or disconnect relatively easily.

During the Carrington event in the 1800s it was setting railroad ties on fire 
as well as burning down telegraph offices

I'm afraid the best bet would be a back up inverter and controller properly 
wrapped and shielded and make the sign of the cross and pray for the best !

And if it's atmospheric like a solar pulse or other challenge you would want to 
wait several days before you brought out your back up stuff because you may get 
hit again in a matter of hours or days and it be a shame to get everything 
possibly working again and have it wiped out by the 2nd hit

I'm probably already outside of what Michael would like me to be so we can 
continue later if you like

Bob ellison



> On Sep 8, 2017, at 12:22 PM, drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote:
> 
> In 2013 we were having a discussion of Faraday cages. I don't think we ever 
> got an answer to the question of whether a grounded inverter or charge 
> control enclosure would serve as a Faraday cage? If all external lines were 
> disconnected, would the grounded metal enclosure prevent damage from an EMP?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Drake
> 
> Chris Daum Tue, 07 May 2013 12:21:16 -0700
> 
> Dear people:
> 
> 
> 
> So I have a customer worried about the end of the world as we know it.  I've
> 
> 
> looked at the HP archives and see comments from a while ago.  Other than
> 
> 
> screening/boxing components and adding mucho surge protectors, is there
> 
> 
> anything else that can be done that might actually work?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Daum
> 
> 
> Oasis Montana Inc
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[RE-wrenches] Comment on Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[RE Ellison]

Wow must be nice to be limited to 5 hours
>> “canyon that limits the PV collection to 5 hours on a December day”

We’re going into the time of where we get less than an 
hour !!

Just had to comment,
Bob

> On Oct 29, 2017, at 4:29 AM, Darryl Thayer  wrote:
> 
> canyon that limits the PV collection to 5 hours on a December day, that
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