Amazing what the difference of $10.00 a watt to a $1.00 a watt for panels makes in the design ! Still don’t like poking holes in a perfectly good roof !
Just another set of random thoughts, Bob Ellison > On Sep 7, 2018, at 1:12 AM, Ray <r...@solarray.com> wrote: > > Allan; > > That's the same math I've done, and tracking off grid just doesn't pencil > much of the time There is software that can model tracking vs fixed. If you > run these calcs and pay attention to the critical winter months, its just not > there. Also even when tracking might be a consideration, most people do not > have a dawn to dusk perfect solar window, so shading starts reducing the > benefits as well. I found it hard enough to not shade a fixed array, so > tracking is certainly not adding much in a tight valley with trees. > Its funny how my designs have shifted from tracking back in the 80s and 90s, > to fixed pole mounts set due south with adjustable tilt, to now I'm running > PV Watts and seeing that roof mounts at imperfect tilt and azimuth can still > have the most energy for the money: Just add more modules. > That's funny too, because if you had shown me a roof array like that 20 years > ago, I would have been poo pooing it for days.(That's not even close to > south!!...) Our racking and tracking choices have changed significantly now > that PV is under $1/ watt. > Ray Walters > Remote Solar > 303 505-8760 >> On 9/6/18 9:06 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: >> What am I missing here, Bill? If the tracker costs $10,000 (plus >> installation) to carry 24 modules, that's $416 per module, which is more >> than the cost of the modules themselves. I don't get the point of doing >> this. It almost sounds like consumer vanity - "Folks do like to watch the >> slow dance of the modules". >> How can tracking be justified? >> >> Allan Sindelar >> Sindelar Solar >> 505 780-2738 >> >> On Sep 6, 2018, at 1:26 PM, Bill Hennessy <b...@berkssolar.com> wrote: >> >>> Chris-- >>> >>> We installed two 24-module AllEarth dual-axis trackers at the request of a >>> homeowner two years ago--"I like companies that are from Vermont." >>> inspite of a higher cost as compared to a ground mount equivalent w Krinner >>> groundscrews. >>> >>> You can buy either the tracker alone or complete kits. The 24-module >>> tracker is about $10,000. The concrete base was fairly easy to install. I >>> think the hole was 4x4x4 with rebar crosshatch. The frame is assembled on >>> the ground and lifted to the pole (you need about a18-foot lift). Our mini >>> excavator was barely tall enough. We did the frame layout and assembly on >>> the excavator trailer and it worked well. If you go to Vermont, they have a >>> free two-day training program where you assemble a tracker. >>> >>> One of the trackers had an early issue with a stuck hydraulic valve. >>> Warranty service was prompt and knowledgeable and we haven't had issues >>> since. We did have to upsize the Fronius inverters. My design mistake. I >>> typically oversize the array to the inverter, but in the spring, the arrays >>> were always clipping. >>> >>> Folks do like to watch the slow dance of the modules. >>> >>> Bill Hennessy >>> Berks Solar, LLC >>> 371 Centennial Rd >>> Mertztown, PA 19539 >>> >>> o 610 682 4300 >>> c 484 560 4666 >>> NABCEP certified installer >>> PA contractor #44411 >>> www.berkssolar.com >>> >>> >>> From: "ch...@oasismontana.com" <ch...@oasismontana.com> >>> To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2018 3:37 PM >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers >>> >>> Hi Folks: I appreciate the input but I am looking for TYPES of trackers >>> that you may be selling (and yes, I told him about adding more & cheaper >>> solar modules than investing in a tracker, but it’s the customer’s >>> decision). Zomeworks is not what the client wants; >>> I would prefer dual axis; the customer’s in north central CA with a good >>> resource. I say go with Array Technologies but I would think there must be >>> something new and improved by now. >>> >>> --Chris Daum/Oasis Montana >>> >>> >>> From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of >>> Dana >>> Sent: Thursday, September 6, 2018 9:18 AM >>> To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trackers >>> >>> I second this observation. >>> >>> I now live again off grid in a narrow N-S canyon in south central Idaho. >>> Having limited ground space [thanks to county regs] & not wanting roof >>> mounted arrays to have to clear snow from, trackers VS. fix top of pole >>> mounts enhance my output & they reduced the # of modules required for my >>> homes projected load design. >>> >>> 6400 watts rated output on 2 Array Tech tracking arrays. Fixed would have >>> required 3 arrays & 6-8 more modules. Trackers are programed to full >>> vertical in winter to shed overnight snow dumps, this saves time & effort >>> in the morning when it’s a Powder day! Can’t miss those Powder mornings. >>> 5400 watts per hour in the summer when hot. >>> Up to 8400 watts per hour on a cold winter day. Exactly what I needed 31+% >>> additional output with a 4-hour window of sun at New Year’s Day. So far, my >>> generator has never started… >>> >>> *A repeat from a previous RE conversation years ago, I had to see for >>> myself &: >>> Last house in CO, I had [6] 250-watt mod on a tracker & [6] 250-watt mod on >>> a fixed roof array. >>> The tracker consistently outproduced the fixed array by 32% averaged over >>> the year. >>> >>> Trackers have their place and advantages. That said, with todays $/watt o >>> modules if you have the space fixed is a more cost-effective way to proceed. >>> >>> Signed - A 25-year tracker advocate. >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> Dana Orzel Great Solar Works, Inc. >>> C - 208.721.7003 d...@solarwork.com >>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374 >>> NABCEP # 051112-136 www.solarwork.biz >>> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >>> P Please consider the environment before printing this email. >>> >>> >>> From: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> On Behalf Of >>> Chris Schaefer >>> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2018 8:27 AM >>> To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> >>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trackers >>> >>> To All, >>> >>> Seen it first hand with existing Northeast offgrid clients that had old >>> pole mounts with lots of generator usage during the winter months. Added a >>> single 12 module DAT and generator usage was down to as little as twice in >>> the entire winter. Others usage was down to just a handful of times >>> required from genny. They are great at shedding snow. Bottom line is >>> generator usage was cut in most cases by 75% or better. I'm a believer here >>> in upstate NY. >>> >>> Christopher >>> Chris Schaefer’s >>> >>> Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 >>> 5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >>> www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com >>> >>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >>> willing to work and give to those who would not." >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 12:37 AM, Andrew Truitt <atru...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> These guys are new but I've heard good things: >>> http://www.sulasindustries.com/ >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Andrew Truitt | DRV >>> www.dr.ventures >>> d: 202.486.7507 >>> >>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional ID: 032407-66 >>> Colorado Journeyman Electrician License No.: 600132 >>> >>> >>> >>> "Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear >>> energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to fission. And it just >>> so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor safely banked a few >>> million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use in just >>> about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!" >>> >>> ~William McDonough >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Sep 5, 2018 at 9:38 PM Sindelar Solar <al...@sindelarsolar.com> >>> wrote: >>> Bill, >>> No, I'm with you on this.Given the the greatest boost (~+/- 30%) of daily >>> tracking is during the summer and most stand-alone applications are >>> winter-peak (where tracking adds at best 10-15%), seasonal water pumping is >>> about the only time when small-scale tracking is justified over simply >>> adding array. Any pumping where the source is slow enough that the length >>> of the day becomes an important factor, like drip irrigation or a very low >>> yield well or spring, is worth looking into. But that's about it in my >>> experience. >>> Allan >>> -- >>> Allan Sindelar >>> al...@sindelarsolar.com >>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional >>> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician >>> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc. >>> 505 780-2738 cell >>> On 9/5/2018 5:53 PM, solar1onl...@charter.net wrote: >>> Chris, >>> I thought since solar PV prices have come down (understatement), is it not >>> more cost effective to buy more modules than a tracker? Are there scenarios >>> that the above would not ring true? (As I remember, off grid water pumping >>> for livestock ponds may still be an exception as also, limited space.) >>> Please advise. >>> Thanks, >>> Bill Loesch >>> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar >>> 314 631 1094 >>> ---------------------------------------- >>> From: ch...@oasismontana.com >>> Sent: Wednesday September 5 2018 3:45:25PM >>> Dear people: >>> What trackers are y’all using nowadays? I have a customer (with a great >>> site) who’s insisting on a pair. We’ve sold Zomeworks and Array >>> Technologies in the past, but I know there are more offerings now. >>> Thanks for the input! >>> Chris Daum >>> Oasis Montana Inc. >>> 406-777-4309 or 4321 >>> 406-777-4309 fax >>> www.oasismontana.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Chris Schaefer’s >>> >>> Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 >>> 5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 >>> www.solarandwindfx.com ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com >>> >>> Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, >>> "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are >>> willing to work and give to those who would not." >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Change listserver email address & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out or update participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org >
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