Re: Stus-List propellers

[Allen White]

I have a 26 with a single cylinder SB8 that is not able to push the boat to
hull speed easily in  wind and chop. Has anyone specs on what prop should be
on the boat, and any possible upgrades. The current prop is a 2 blade fixed,
unsure of the specs. I cruise more than race, and seem to wind up motoring
home often when the wind gives up on me.  I love the boat and would welcome
any advise you guys can offer.
Allen
C&C 26 Windfall

-


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Re: Stus-List propellers

[Sam Salter]

Allen,

I've got a C&C 26, but mine has a Yanmar 2GM20F with a 3 blade fixed, so it's 
not standard.
It will drive it to hull speed.
If it's any help, my original 1977 manual says standard engine in the C&C 26 
was a Westerbeke Vire or an optional Yanmar SVE 8 diesel. Transmission was 2:1 
reduction and the prop was an 11" x 7" RH 2 blade prop, or an optional 12" x 6" 
folding. (same props on both engines)
(An interesting note at the bottom of the page says boats built in 
Niagara-on-the lake had 7/8" dia. propeller shaft and boat s built in Rhode 
Island had 3/4" dia. shafts)

Sam Salter
C&C 26  Liquorice
Ghost Lake  Alberta


On 2013-02-13, at 4:38 AM, "Allen White"  wrote:

> I have a 26 with a single cylinder SB8 that is not able to push the boat to
> hull speed easily in  wind and chop. Has anyone specs on what prop should be
> on the boat, and any possible upgrades. The current prop is a 2 blade fixed,
> unsure of the specs. I cruise more than race, and seem to wind up motoring
> home often when the wind gives up on me.  I love the boat and would welcome
> any advise you guys can offer.
> Allen
> C&C 26 Windfall
> 
> -
> 
> 
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> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013

[Robert Gallagher]

The response to the survey has been good.  I think we should let it run for
a little while longer before posting the results.

I have a favor to ask those of you who may be members of sailing related
forums.  Would you please start a thread and post this link?  We are hoping
to reach some C&C designed/built owners who are not subscribed to this list.

I'm not a registered member on any of the other boards and don't want to
join, build up enough posts to publish a link and possibly not post again.

I have started a thread on the Sailnet forums and Stu has put the link up
on his home page.  Any help on anything-sailing, cruisersforum, etc., etc.
would be greatly appreciated.

Here is the link to the survey:

http://fluidsurveys.com/surveys/cnc-2013-rendezvous/cnc-2013-rendezvous/

Regards,
Rob Gallagher
'88 C&C 30 MKII
HANUMAN
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Re: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013

[Della Barba, Joe]

Done for SA.

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Robert 
Gallagher
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:39 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013

The response to the survey has been good.  I think we should let it run for a 
little while longer before posting the results.

I have a favor to ask those of you who may be members of sailing related 
forums.  Would you please start a thread and post this link?  We are hoping to 
reach some C&C designed/built owners who are not subscribed to this list.

I'm not a registered member on any of the other boards and don't want to join, 
build up enough posts to publish a link and possibly not post again.

I have started a thread on the Sailnet forums and Stu has put the link up on 
his home page.  Any help on anything-sailing, cruisersforum, etc., etc. would 
be greatly appreciated.

Here is the link to the survey:

http://fluidsurveys.com/surveys/cnc-2013-rendezvous/cnc-2013-rendezvous/

Regards,
Rob Gallagher
'88 C&C 30 MKII
HANUMAN
___
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Re: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013

[Andrew Burton]

Done for CA


On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Della Barba, Joe
wrote:

> Done for SA.
>
> ** **
>
> *Joe Della Barba*
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Robert
> Gallagher
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:39 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013
>
> ** **
>
> The response to the survey has been good.  I think we should let it run
> for a little while longer before posting the results.
>
> ** **
>
> I have a favor to ask those of you who may be members of sailing related
> forums.  Would you please start a thread and post this link?  We are hoping
> to reach some C&C designed/built owners who are not subscribed to this list.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> I'm not a registered member on any of the other boards and don't want to
> join, build up enough posts to publish a link and possibly not post again.
> 
>
> ** **
>
> I have started a thread on the Sailnet forums and Stu has put the link up
> on his home page.  Any help on anything-sailing, cruisersforum, etc., etc.
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> ** **
>
> Here is the link to the survey:
>
> ** **
>
> http://fluidsurveys.com/surveys/cnc-2013-rendezvous/cnc-2013-rendezvous/**
> **
>
> ** **
>
> Regards,
>
> Rob Gallagher
>
> '88 C&C 30 MKII
>
> HANUMAN
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone  +401 965 5260
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Re: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013

[Della Barba, Joe]

Done for SailNet.

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Burton
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:59 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013

Done for CA

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Della Barba, Joe 
mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>> wrote:
Done for SA.

Joe Della Barba

From: CnC-List 
[mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On 
Behalf Of Robert Gallagher
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:39 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013

The response to the survey has been good.  I think we should let it run for a 
little while longer before posting the results.

I have a favor to ask those of you who may be members of sailing related 
forums.  Would you please start a thread and post this link?  We are hoping to 
reach some C&C designed/built owners who are not subscribed to this list.

I'm not a registered member on any of the other boards and don't want to join, 
build up enough posts to publish a link and possibly not post again.

I have started a thread on the Sailnet forums and Stu has put the link up on 
his home page.  Any help on anything-sailing, cruisersforum, etc., etc. would 
be greatly appreciated.

Here is the link to the survey:

http://fluidsurveys.com/surveys/cnc-2013-rendezvous/cnc-2013-rendezvous/

Regards,
Rob Gallagher
'88 C&C 30 MKII
HANUMAN

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CnC-List@cnc-list.com



--
Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett Ave
Newport, RI
USA 02840
http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
phone  +401 965 5260
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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Gary Nylander]

I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both from 
the pole.

He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is worth 
it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for reaching). 
But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the bomb' last 
time").

Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to be a lot of reaching to 
make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.

And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of the 
boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up. And, a 
heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a light one may.

He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.

Gary Nylander
St. Michaels MD
  - Original Message - 
  From: Jake Brodersen 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 9:12 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review


  Bill,

   

  I really appreciate the info. About 90% of our racing is all W-L courses.  
The symmetrical chutes run deep real well.  We have one J-105 with an asym.  He 
races all by himself.  It doesn't look fun.  I can see the value for reaching 
though.  It does do that well.  I might consider one for cruising.  Not sure 
I'd want to use it to race.  I'd have to declare it on my PHRF certificate.  
Not sure what they'd do to my rating.

   

  Jake

   

  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill 
Coleman
  Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 8:19 PM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

   

  Jake, 

  I don't think I am usually as aggressive as you, I am guessing, but - (these 
are on distance races)  I normally start out with an A sail on a headsail tack 
shackle- if the wind comes back, and I believe it will stay back, I will put 
the pole on the A sail tack and pop the bow shackle, then pull the pole back. 
If it goes back to a close reach, the pole usually ends up on the headstay  
pulled down hard.  I have re-attached the pennant  to get rid of the pole, but 
usually not, as it keeps the tack a little more to windward.

  In anything but mostly downwind, I think the Asymmetrical  has a better shape 
for broad reaching than a big bubble.

  Unfortunately  around here, regular spinnaker races are windward leeward 
because it is run by the people with the newer light boats, and then we have to 
use a regular symmetrical chute.

  I would like to have at least an anchor roller to attach the asymmetrical to, 
because I have run into problems  with the chute wrapping around the headstay.  
It would be REALLY good to get it away from the headstay.  Did I mention that 
the headstay is a problem with Asymmetricals? 

  Regarding the sissy socks, I have a VF Shaw Chute Scoop sock, it can be 
really handy when things get ugly and you are short handed.

  I am also tempted by the newer roller furlers, but they are pricy.  

  Also jibing can run into problems.   This takes practice. There are several 
articles on this.  We still occasionally screw this up.  I would rather douse 
it and re-set it, because, percentage-wise, it would put me in the positive. 
Keep in mind, these are distance races, and we have but a few crew

   

  Bill Coleman

  C&C 39 



--


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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Chuck S]

I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see getting a rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see why using an asym with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting the pole further forward?   I think there is more to this.ChuckResolute1990 C&C 34RAtlantic City, NJFrom: "Gary Nylander" To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PMSubject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review






I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and 
asym. Flies both from the pole.
 
He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does 
not think it is worth it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west 
winds for reaching). But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 
'the bomb' last time").
 
Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to 
be a lot of reaching to make up for the windward and leeward parts of a 
race.
 
And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way 
out in front of the boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to 
tangle up. And, a heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a 
light one may.
 
He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their 
policy.
 
Gary Nylander
St. Michaels MD

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jake 
  Brodersen 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 9:12 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap 
  review
  
  
  Bill,
   
  I 
  really appreciate the info. About 90% of our racing is all W-L courses.  
  The symmetrical chutes run deep real well.  We have one J-105 with an 
  asym.  He races all by himself.  It doesn’t look fun.  I can 
  see the value for reaching though.  It does do that well.  I might 
  consider one for cruising.  Not sure I’d want to use it to race.  
  I’d have to declare it on my PHRF certificate.  Not sure what they’d do 
  to my rating.
   
  Jake
   
  
  
  From: CnC-List 
  [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill 
  ColemanSent: Monday, February 11, 2013 8:19 PMTo: 
  cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Re: Stus-List Handicap 
  review
   
  Jake, 
  
  I 
  don’t think I am usually as aggressive as you, I am guessing, but – (these are 
  on distance races)  I normally start out with an A sail on a headsail 
  tack shackle– if the wind comes back, and I believe it will stay back, I will 
  put the pole on the A sail tack and pop the bow shackle, then pull the pole 
  back. If it goes back to a close reach, the pole usually ends up on the 
  headstay  pulled down hard.  I have re-attached the pennant  to 
  get rid of the pole, but usually not, as it keeps the tack a little more to 
  windward.
  In 
  anything but mostly downwind, I think the Asymmetrical  has a better 
  shape for broad reaching than a big bubble.
  Unfortunately 
   around here, regular spinnaker races are windward leeward because it is 
  run by the people with the newer light boats, and then we have to use a 
  regular symmetrical chute.
  I 
  would like to have at least an anchor roller to attach the asymmetrical to, 
  because I have run into problems  with the chute wrapping around the 
  headstay.  It would be REALLY good to get it away from the headstay. 
   Did I mention that the headstay is a problem with Asymmetricals? 
  
  Regarding 
  the sissy socks, I have a VF Shaw Chute Scoop sock, it can be really handy 
  when things get ugly and you are short handed.
  I 
  am also tempted by the newer roller furlers, but they are pricy. 
   
  Also 
  jibing can run into problems.   This takes practice. There are 
  several articles on this.  We still occasionally screw this up.  I 
  would rather douse it and re-set it, because, percentage-wise, it would put me 
  in the positive. Keep in mind, these are distance races, and we have but a few 
  crew
   
  
  Bill 
  Coleman
  C&C 
  39 
  
  

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  provided by the C&C Photo 
  Albumhttp://www.cncphotoalbum.comCnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Joel Aronson]

I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I don't know if
asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some big-axx Code 0's out there.
 The penalty may be due, in part, to the greater efficiency on a beam
reach.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis


On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S  wrote:

> I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs
> running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see
> getting a rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't
> see why using an asym with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he
> mounting the pole further forward?   I think there is more to this.
>
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> --
> *From: *"Gary Nylander" 
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>
> I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both
> from the pole.
>
> He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is
> worth it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for
> reaching). But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the
> bomb' last time").
>
> Figure that the 3 seconds is *always* so there has to be a lot of
> reaching to make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.
>
> And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of
> the boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up.
> And, a heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a
> light one may.
>
> He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.
>
> Gary Nylander
> St. Michaels MD
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Jake Brodersen 
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 11, 2013 9:12 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>
>  Bill,
>
>
>
> I really appreciate the info. About 90% of our racing is all W-L courses.
> The symmetrical chutes run deep real well.  We have one J-105 with an
> asym.  He races all by himself.  It doesn’t look fun.  I can see the value
> for reaching though.  It does do that well.  I might consider one for
> cruising.  Not sure I’d want to use it to race.  I’d have to declare it on
> my PHRF certificate.  Not sure what they’d do to my rating.
>
>
>
> Jake
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill
> Coleman
> *Sent:* Monday, February 11, 2013 8:19 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>
>
>
> Jake,
>
> I don’t think I am usually as aggressive as you, I am guessing, but –
> (these are on distance races)  I normally start out with an A sail on a
> headsail tack shackle– if the wind comes back, and I believe it will stay
> back, I will put the pole on the A sail tack and pop the bow shackle, then
> pull the pole back. If it goes back to a close reach, the pole usually ends
> up on the headstay  pulled down hard.  I have re-attached the pennant  to
> get rid of the pole, but usually not, as it keeps the tack a little more to
> windward.
>
> In anything but mostly downwind, I think the Asymmetrical  has a better
> shape for broad reaching than a big bubble.
>
> Unfortunately  around here, regular spinnaker races are windward leeward
> because it is run by the people with the newer light boats, and then we
> have to use a regular symmetrical chute.
>
> I would like to have at least an anchor roller to attach the asymmetrical
> to, because I have run into problems  with the chute wrapping around the
> headstay.  It would be REALLY good to get it away from the headstay.  Did I
> mention that the headstay is a problem with Asymmetricals?
>
> Regarding the sissy socks, I have a VF Shaw Chute Scoop sock, it can be
> really handy when things get ugly and you are short handed.
>
> I am also tempted by the newer roller furlers, but they are pricy.
>
> Also jibing can run into problems.   This takes practice. There are
> several articles on this.  We still occasionally screw this up.  I would
> rather douse it and re-set it, because, percentage-wise, it would put me in
> the positive. Keep in mind, these are distance races, and we have but a few
> crew
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> C&C 39 [image: animated_favicon1]
>
> --
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
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301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Martin DeYoung]

Maybe the PHRF rating people see an asso much like a 150+% genny.

I know when I stretch back Calypso's 25 year old ¾ oz spinny on a tight reach 
the clew is back where a 160 - 170% headsails would be.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:56 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I don't know if 
asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some big-axx Code 0's out there.  The 
penalty may be due, in part, to the greater efficiency on a beam reach.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S 
mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>> wrote:
I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs running, 
but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see getting a rating 
hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see why using an asym 
with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting the pole further 
forward?   I think there is more to this.
Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

From: "Gary Nylander" 
mailto:gnylan...@atlanticbb.net>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM

Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both from 
the pole.

He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is worth 
it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for reaching). 
But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the bomb' last 
time").

Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to be a lot of reaching to 
make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.

And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of the 
boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up. And, a 
heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a light one may.

He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.

Gary Nylander
St. Michaels MD
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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Gary Nylander]

Nope, the pole is the same - off the mast. And, an asym for racing can be just 
as big as a regular spinnaker (probably not as much sail area, but longer in 
the luff and the same on the foot). There's a formula the PHRF (ChesBay) uses. 
I haven't looked at it in detail. He said that in some other areas there is a 6 
second credit if you fly the asym off the forestay without a pole. But, with a 
pole, you can pull the asym back and get some downwind angles from that, so I 
guess that's the logic. As I said, there could be some guidance to make this 
more scientific and not as much guesswork.

Gary


  - Original Message - 
  From: Chuck S 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:49 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review


  I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs 
running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see getting a 
rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see why using an 
asym with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting the pole further 
forward?   I think there is more to this.


  Chuck
  Resolute
  1990 C&C 34R
  Atlantic City, NJ


--
  From: "Gary Nylander" 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review


  I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both from 
the pole.

  He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is worth 
it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for reaching). 
But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the bomb' last 
time").

  Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to be a lot of reaching to 
make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.

  And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of the 
boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up. And, a 
heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a light one may.

  He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.

  Gary Nylander
  St. Michaels MD
- Original Message - 
From: Jake Brodersen 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review


Bill,



I really appreciate the info. About 90% of our racing is all W-L courses.  
The symmetrical chutes run deep real well.  We have one J-105 with an asym.  He 
races all by himself.  It doesn’t look fun.  I can see the value for reaching 
though.  It does do that well.  I might consider one for cruising.  Not sure 
I’d want to use it to race.  I’d have to declare it on my PHRF certificate.  
Not sure what they’d do to my rating.



Jake



From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill 
Coleman
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 8:19 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review



Jake, 

I don’t think I am usually as aggressive as you, I am guessing, but – 
(these are on distance races)  I normally start out with an A sail on a 
headsail tack shackle– if the wind comes back, and I believe it will stay back, 
I will put the pole on the A sail tack and pop the bow shackle, then pull the 
pole back. If it goes back to a close reach, the pole usually ends up on the 
headstay  pulled down hard.  I have re-attached the pennant  to get rid of the 
pole, but usually not, as it keeps the tack a little more to windward.

In anything but mostly downwind, I think the Asymmetrical  has a better 
shape for broad reaching than a big bubble.

Unfortunately  around here, regular spinnaker races are windward leeward 
because it is run by the people with the newer light boats, and then we have to 
use a regular symmetrical chute.

I would like to have at least an anchor roller to attach the asymmetrical 
to, because I have run into problems  with the chute wrapping around the 
headstay.  It would be REALLY good to get it away from the headstay.  Did I 
mention that the headstay is a problem with Asymmetricals? 

Regarding the sissy socks, I have a VF Shaw Chute Scoop sock, it can be 
really handy when things get ugly and you are short handed.

I am also tempted by the newer roller furlers, but they are pricy.  

Also jibing can run into problems.   This takes practice. There are several 
articles on this.  We still occasionally screw this up.  I would rather douse 
it and re-set it, because, percentage-wise, it would put me in the positive. 
Keep in mind, these are distance races, and we have but a few crew



Bill Coleman

C&C 39 






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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Gary Nylander]

Any of you old enough to remember the 'drifters'? We had one in the late '60's 
(friend's boat) that was about 180%. If you flattened that out and made it with 
a bit more of a luff/leech consideration, you would have an asym.

Gary
  - Original Message - 
  From: Martin DeYoung 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:03 PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review


  Maybe the PHRF rating people see an asso much like a 150+% genny.

   

  I know when I stretch back Calypso's 25 year old ¾ oz spinny on a tight reach 
the clew is back where a 160 - 170% headsails would be.

   

  Martin

  Calypso

  1970 C&C 43

  Seattle


--

  From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel 
Aronson
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:56 PM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

   

  I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I don't know if 
asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some big-axx Code 0's out there.  The 
penalty may be due, in part, to the greater efficiency on a beam reach.  

   

  Joel

  35/3

  Annapolis

   

  On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S  wrote:

  I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs 
running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see getting a 
rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see why using an 
asym with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting the pole further 
forward?   I think there is more to this.

  Chuck
  Resolute
  1990 C&C 34R
  Atlantic City, NJ


--

  From: "Gary Nylander" 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM


  Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

  I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both from 
the pole.

   

  He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is worth 
it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for reaching). 
But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the bomb' last 
time").

   

  Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to be a lot of reaching to 
make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.

   

  And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of the 
boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up. And, a 
heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a light one may.

   

  He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.

   

  Gary Nylander

  St. Michaels MD 



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Re: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013

[Colin Kilgour]

I can do CF.

Colin


On 2/13/13, Della Barba, Joe  wrote:
> Done for SailNet.
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Andrew
> Burton
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:59 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013
>
> Done for CA
>
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 1:56 PM, Della Barba, Joe
> mailto:joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov>> wrote:
> Done for SA.
>
> Joe Della Barba
>
> From: CnC-List
> [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com]
> On Behalf Of Robert Gallagher
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:39 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013
>
> The response to the survey has been good.  I think we should let it run for
> a little while longer before posting the results.
>
> I have a favor to ask those of you who may be members of sailing related
> forums.  Would you please start a thread and post this link?  We are hoping
> to reach some C&C designed/built owners who are not subscribed to this
> list.
>
> I'm not a registered member on any of the other boards and don't want to
> join, build up enough posts to publish a link and possibly not post again.
>
> I have started a thread on the Sailnet forums and Stu has put the link up on
> his home page.  Any help on anything-sailing, cruisersforum, etc., etc.
> would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Here is the link to the survey:
>
> http://fluidsurveys.com/surveys/cnc-2013-rendezvous/cnc-2013-rendezvous/
>
> Regards,
> Rob Gallagher
> '88 C&C 30 MKII
> HANUMAN
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett Ave
> Newport, RI
> USA 02840
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> phone  +401 965 5260
>

-- 
Sent from my mobile device

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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Martin DeYoung]

I fondly recall sitting to leeward holding the drifter's clew by hand while 
going backwards in the current.  Sometimes this was in the fog or late at 
night.  Often when is was 0dark 30, cold and damp and I was changing back and 
forth between a drifter and a ½ oz spinny I would longingly gaze towards shore 
and wonder what the poor people were doing.

I salvaged a lightweight spinnaker staysail from a dumpster to use as a 
"windseeker" in goose egg conditions. (I have a picture on my office wall of a 
C&C 39 flying the same staysail in 1977.)  For drifter conditions I bought 
($500) a lightly used very light Mylar/Kevlar laminate that is a little 
undersized but it was only $500.  When conditions are changing quickly we use 
Calypso's light #1 which does very well from 3 to 10 knots TWS.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary Nylander
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:51 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

Any of you old enough to remember the 'drifters'? We had one in the late '60's 
(friend's boat) that was about 180%. If you flattened that out and made it with 
a bit more of a luff/leech consideration, you would have an asym.

Gary
- Original Message -
From: Martin DeYoung
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

Maybe the PHRF rating people see an asso much like a 150+% genny.

I know when I stretch back Calypso's 25 year old ¾ oz spinny on a tight reach 
the clew is back where a 160 - 170% headsails would be.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:56 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I don't know if 
asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some big-axx Code 0's out there.  The 
penalty may be due, in part, to the greater efficiency on a beam reach.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S 
mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>> wrote:
I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs running, 
but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see getting a rating 
hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see why using an asym 
with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting the pole further 
forward?   I think there is more to this.
Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

From: "Gary Nylander" 
mailto:gnylan...@atlanticbb.net>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM

Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both from 
the pole.

He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is worth 
it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for reaching). 
But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the bomb' last 
time").

Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to be a lot of reaching to 
make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.

And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of the 
boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up. And, a 
heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a light one may.

He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.

Gary Nylander
St. Michaels MD

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Re: Stus-List propeller / pitch

[Martin DeYoung]

Can your SB8 achieve full rated RPM either in calm or choppy conditions?

Calypso's 3 blade MAX prop was intentionally over pitched (by 10%) for many 
years. I did this to allow calm water hull speed at an engine RPM "smooth 
spot".  Worked fine for most PNW inland waters.

For our trip around Vancouver Island I wanted to be sure Calypso could power 
upwind effectively in all wind/sea conditions.  I "down shifted" the prop by 
15% (now 5% under pitch).  

The 20 year old Perkins 4-108 could now run up to full rated RPM (3600) while 
powering into a wind and sea.  I did not observe a significant change in fuel 
usage but we did choose to use 6.6 to 6.8 knots (down from 7 to 7.2) as our 
target powering speed through the water.

My key point is: If your engine cannot reach full RPM it is not achieving full 
rated horsepower. The pitch of a prop may be more important than the diameter 
or number of blades.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Allen White
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 3:38 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List propellers

I have a 26 with a single cylinder SB8 that is not able to push the boat to
hull speed easily in  wind and chop. Has anyone specs on what prop should be
on the boat, and any possible upgrades. The current prop is a 2 blade fixed,
unsure of the specs. I cruise more than race, and seem to wind up motoring
home often when the wind gives up on me.  I love the boat and would welcome
any advise you guys can offer.
Allen
C&C 26 Windfall

-


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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Tim Goodyear]

An asym doesn't need to be smaller - there are some huge VMG versions I've
seen, in particular on a PHRF-optimized J/109 in Boston, and if you can get
it to rotate out in front of the boat you can go pretty deep too.  The
measurement standard is 180% mid girth, like regular spinnakers.

The penalty is there because it gives you better performance in some
conditions and 3 seconds is the least they can generally change a handicap
by.  In PHRF NE; with an asym only, tacked to the bow you get 9 second
relief over having a symmetrical; asym tacked to a pole = same as a
symmetrical; symmetrical plus asym tacked to a pole - depends because not
many people have this setup, so not much data.

Take a look at this and tell me that 9 seconds relief is still valid...
http://www.na.northsails.com/tabid/23017/Default.aspx

Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT


On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S  wrote:

> I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs
> running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see
> getting a rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't
> see why using an asym with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he
> mounting the pole further forward?   I think there is more to this.
>
>
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> --
> *From: *"Gary Nylander" 
> *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM
>
> *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>
> I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both
> from the pole.
>
> He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is
> worth it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for
> reaching). But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the
> bomb' last time").
>
> Figure that the 3 seconds is *always* so there has to be a lot of
> reaching to make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.
>
> And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of
> the boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up.
> And, a heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a
> light one may.
>
> He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.
>
> Gary Nylander
> St. Michaels MD
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Jake Brodersen 
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Sent:* Monday, February 11, 2013 9:12 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>
>  Bill,
>
>
>
> I really appreciate the info. About 90% of our racing is all W-L courses.
> The symmetrical chutes run deep real well.  We have one J-105 with an
> asym.  He races all by himself.  It doesn’t look fun.  I can see the value
> for reaching though.  It does do that well.  I might consider one for
> cruising.  Not sure I’d want to use it to race.  I’d have to declare it on
> my PHRF certificate.  Not sure what they’d do to my rating.
>
>
>
> Jake
>
>
>
> *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill
> Coleman
> *Sent:* Monday, February 11, 2013 8:19 PM
> *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>
>
>
> Jake,
>
> I don’t think I am usually as aggressive as you, I am guessing, but –
> (these are on distance races)  I normally start out with an A sail on a
> headsail tack shackle– if the wind comes back, and I believe it will stay
> back, I will put the pole on the A sail tack and pop the bow shackle, then
> pull the pole back. If it goes back to a close reach, the pole usually ends
> up on the headstay  pulled down hard.  I have re-attached the pennant  to
> get rid of the pole, but usually not, as it keeps the tack a little more to
> windward.
>
> In anything but mostly downwind, I think the Asymmetrical  has a better
> shape for broad reaching than a big bubble.
>
> Unfortunately  around here, regular spinnaker races are windward leeward
> because it is run by the people with the newer light boats, and then we
> have to use a regular symmetrical chute.
>
> I would like to have at least an anchor roller to attach the asymmetrical
> to, because I have run into problems  with the chute wrapping around the
> headstay.  It would be REALLY good to get it away from the headstay.  Did I
> mention that the headstay is a problem with Asymmetricals?
>
> Regarding the sissy socks, I have a VF Shaw Chute Scoop sock, it can be
> really handy when things get ugly and you are short handed.
>
> I am also tempted by the newer roller furlers, but they are pricy.
>
> Also jibing can run into problems.   This takes practice. There are
> several articles on this.  We still occasionally screw this up.  I would
> rather douse it and re-set it, because, percentage-wise, it would put me in
> the positive. Keep in mind, these are distance races, and we have but a few
> crew
>
>
>
> Bill Coleman
>
> C&C 39 [image: animated_favicon1]
>
> --
>
> _

Re: Stus-List propellers

[D.Drake]

Allen
my 1978 C&C 26 has a RH 11D X 7P X 3/4 prop
also powered by an SB8
Not the fastest boat in the herd  by any means .Can't offer any go fast 
advice  but what speed are you getting (flat water  no wind ) I usually 
manage 4.5 kts


On 13/02/2013 6:38 AM, Allen White wrote:

I have a 26 with a single cylinder SB8 that is not able to push the boat to
hull speed easily in  wind and chop. Has anyone specs on what prop should be
on the boat, and any possible upgrades. The current prop is a 2 blade fixed,
unsure of the specs. I cruise more than race, and seem to wind up motoring
home often when the wind gives up on me.  I love the boat and would welcome
any advise you guys can offer.
Allen
C&C 26 Windfall

-


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--
D.Drake 73 Jensen Healey C&C 26

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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[schiller]

We have a 1/2 oz Drifter on Corsair that was made in 1971 that is always 
on the boat.  I can make a knot of boat speed with a knot of wind with 
it.  It has a wire luff that we can fly with the 150 rolled up.  This 
sail needs to be on the deck if the wind makes 8 knots true, but between 
3 and 6 knots it is a great adder.  Corsair came with this Drifter, a 
Blooper, and three spinnakers (1/2 oz, 3/4 oz and 1.5 oz).  Corsair was 
purchased for the 71 Chi-Mac and the previous owners never got rid of 
anything (including the old EPIRB and Loran).  We have 20 some odd sails 
hanging in the Pole barn (3 #1's, 2 #2's, 1 #3, Blooper, Drifter, 
Staysail, 3 Spins, Banana Staysail, etc).  Anybody need any hanked on sails?


Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair" (originally christened as "Red Pepper")

On 2/13/2013 5:50 PM, Gary Nylander wrote:
Any of you old enough to remember the 'drifters'? We had one in the 
late '60's (friend's boat) that was about 180%. If you flattened that 
out and made it with a bit more of a luff/leech consideration, you 
would have an asym.

Gary

- Original Message -
*From:* Martin DeYoung 
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:03 PM
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Handicap review

Maybe the PHRF rating people see an asso much like a 150+% genny.

I know when I stretch back Calypso's 25 year old ¾ oz spinny on a
tight reach the clew is back where a 160 -- 170% headsails would be.

Martin

Calypso

1970 C&C 43

Seattle



*From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf
Of *Joel Aronson
*Sent:* Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:56 PM
*To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com
*Subject:* Re: Stus-List Handicap review

I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I
don't know if asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some
big-axx Code 0's out there.  The penalty may be due, in part, to
the greater efficiency on a beam reach.

Joel

35/3

Annapolis

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>> wrote:

I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching
vs running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I
could see getting a rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole
longer than J.  Can't see why using an asym with standard pole
would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting the pole further forward?  
I think there is more to this.


Chuck
*/Resolute/*
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ



*From: *"Gary Nylander" mailto:gnylan...@atlanticbb.net>>
*To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
*Sent: *Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM


*Subject: *Re: Stus-List Handicap review

I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym.
Flies both from the pole.

He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think
it is worth it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of
east/west winds for reaching). But, finds it is very handy for
Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the bomb' last time").

Figure that the 3 seconds is _always_ so there has to be a lot of
reaching to make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.

And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in
front of the boat as you are turning the boat - has many
opportunities to tangle up. And, a heavy boat like his doesn't get
that quick acceleration that a light one may.

He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.

Gary Nylander

St. Michaels MD


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Re: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013

[David Risch]

Gee Rob...you sure have some pull around here!!

David F. Risch
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


From: trys...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2013 13:39:24 -0500
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List C&C Northeast Rendezvous 2013

The response to the survey has been good.  I think we should let it run for a 
little while longer before posting the results.
I have a favor to ask those of you who may be members of sailing related 
forums.  Would you please start a thread and post this link?  We are hoping to 
reach some C&C designed/built owners who are not subscribed to this list.


I'm not a registered member on any of the other boards and don't want to join, 
build up enough posts to publish a link and possibly not post again.
I have started a thread on the Sailnet forums and Stu has put the link up on 
his home page.  Any help on anything-sailing, cruisersforum, etc., etc. would 
be greatly appreciated.


Here is the link to the survey:
http://fluidsurveys.com/surveys/cnc-2013-rendezvous/cnc-2013-rendezvous/


Regards,Rob Gallagher'88 C&C 30 MKIIHANUMAN

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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[dwight veinot]

Neil

 

Did you ever use your blooper or staysail?  I was wondering if either of
these would have a use in light air, either used as the only headsail off
the wind.  I am planning to try that next summer.

 

Dwight Veinot

C&C 35 MKII, Alianna

Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of schiller
Sent: February 13, 2013 8:08 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

 

We have a 1/2 oz Drifter on Corsair that was made in 1971 that is always on
the boat.  I can make a knot of boat speed with a knot of wind with it.  It
has a wire luff that we can fly with the 150 rolled up.  This sail needs to
be on the deck if the wind makes 8 knots true, but between 3 and 6 knots it
is a great adder.  Corsair came with this Drifter, a Blooper, and three
spinnakers (1/2 oz, 3/4 oz and 1.5 oz).  Corsair was purchased for the 71
Chi-Mac and the previous owners never got rid of anything (including the old
EPIRB and Loran).  We have 20 some odd sails hanging in the Pole barn (3
#1's, 2 #2's, 1 #3, Blooper, Drifter, Staysail, 3 Spins, Banana Staysail,
etc).  Anybody need any hanked on sails?

Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair" (originally christened as "Red Pepper")

On 2/13/2013 5:50 PM, Gary Nylander wrote:

Any of you old enough to remember the 'drifters'? We had one in the late
'60's (friend's boat) that was about 180%. If you flattened that out and
made it with a bit more of a luff/leech consideration, you would have an
asym.

 

Gary

- Original Message - 

From: Martin DeYoung   

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:03 PM

Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

 

Maybe the PHRF rating people see an asso much like a 150+% genny.

 

I know when I stretch back Calypso’s 25 year old ¾ oz spinny on a tight
reach the clew is back where a 160 – 170% headsails would be.

 

Martin

Calypso

1970 C&C 43

Seattle


  _  


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel
Aronson
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:56 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

 

I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I don't know if
asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some big-axx Code 0's out there.
The penalty may be due, in part, to the greater efficiency on a beam reach.


 

Joel

35/3

Annapolis

 

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S  wrote:

I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs
running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see
getting a rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see
why using an asym with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting
the pole further forward?   I think there is more to this.

Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ


  _  


From: "Gary Nylander" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM


Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both
from the pole.

 

He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is
worth it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for
reaching). But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the
bomb' last time").

 

Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to be a lot of reaching to
make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.

 

And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of the
boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up. And,
a heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a light one
may.

 

He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.

 

Gary Nylander

St. Michaels MD 


  _  


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  _  

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2238 / Virus Database: 2639/5600 - Release Date: 02/12/13

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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Andrew Burton]

I remember more than one Swiftsure when the conditions were too light for the 
drifter so we shifted to the Dazy staysail and started passing boats.

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Feb 13, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Martin DeYoung  wrote:

> I fondly recall sitting to leeward holding the drifter’s clew by hand while 
> going backwards in the current.  Sometimes this was in the fog or late at 
> night.  Often when is was 0dark 30, cold and damp and I was changing back and 
> forth between a drifter and a ½ oz spinny I would longingly gaze towards 
> shore and wonder what the poor people were doing.
>  
> I salvaged a lightweight spinnaker staysail from a dumpster to use as a 
> “windseeker” in goose egg conditions. (I have a picture on my office wall of 
> a C&C 39 flying the same staysail in 1977.)  For drifter conditions I bought 
> ($500) a lightly used very light Mylar/Kevlar laminate that is a little 
> undersized but it was only $500.  When conditions are changing quickly we use 
> Calypso’s light #1 which does very well from 3 to 10 knots TWS.
>  
> Martin
> Calypso
> 1970 C&C 43
> Seattle
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Gary 
> Nylander
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 2:51 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>  
> Any of you old enough to remember the 'drifters'? We had one in the late 
> '60's (friend's boat) that was about 180%. If you flattened that out and made 
> it with a bit more of a luff/leech consideration, you would have an asym.
>  
> Gary
> - Original Message -
> From: Martin DeYoung
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:03 PM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>  
> Maybe the PHRF rating people see an asso much like a 150+% genny.
>  
> I know when I stretch back Calypso’s 25 year old ¾ oz spinny on a tight reach 
> the clew is back where a 160 – 170% headsails would be.
>  
> Martin
> Calypso
> 1970 C&C 43
> Seattle
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel 
> Aronson
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:56 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>  
> I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I don't know if 
> asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some big-axx Code 0's out there.  
> The penalty may be due, in part, to the greater efficiency on a beam reach.  
>  
> Joel
> 35/3
> Annapolis
>  
> 
> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S  wrote:
> I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs 
> running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see getting 
> a rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see why 
> using an asym with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting the 
> pole further forward?   I think there is more to this.
> 
> Chuck
> Resolute
> 1990 C&C 34R
> Atlantic City, NJ
> From: "Gary Nylander" 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM
> 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
> 
> I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both from 
> the pole.
>  
> He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is worth 
> it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for reaching). 
> But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the bomb' last 
> time").
>  
> Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to be a lot of reaching to 
> make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.
>  
> And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of the 
> boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up. And, 
> a heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a light one 
> may.
>  
> He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.
>  
> Gary Nylander
> St. Michaels MD
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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Martin DeYoung]

Maybe the only reason you were passing them was the Dazy staysail slowed your 
rate of "negative VMG" (drift backwards owing to current).

Martin

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Burton
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:48 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

I remember more than one Swiftsure when the conditions were too light for the 
drifter so we shifted to the Dazy staysail and started passing boats.

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Feb 13, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Martin DeYoung 
mailto:mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com>> wrote:
I fondly recall sitting to leeward holding the drifter's clew by hand while 
going backwards in the current.  Sometimes this was in the fog or late at 
night.  Often when is was 0dark 30, cold and damp and I was changing back and 
forth between a drifter and a ½ oz spinny I would longingly gaze towards shore 
and wonder what the poor people were doing.

I salvaged a lightweight spinnaker staysail from a dumpster to use as a 
"windseeker" in goose egg conditions. (I have a picture on my office wall of a 
C&C 39 flying the same staysail in 1977.)  For drifter conditions I bought 
($500) a lightly used very light Mylar/Kevlar laminate that is a little 
undersized but it was only $500.  When conditions are changing quickly we use 
Calypso's light #1 which does very well from 3 to 10 knots TWS.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle


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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Andrew Burton]

I would love to have a blooper for Peregrine. We have a round the island race 
here and one side is generally DDW. I can only imagine the looks I'd get when I 
hoisted it...and I have enough friends who are old enough that they know how to 
fly one!

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Feb 13, 2013, at 7:07 PM, schiller  wrote:

> We have a 1/2 oz Drifter on Corsair that was made in 1971 that is always on 
> the boat.  I can make a knot of boat speed with a knot of wind with it.  It 
> has a wire luff that we can fly with the 150 rolled up.  This sail needs to 
> be on the deck if the wind makes 8 knots true, but between 3 and 6 knots it 
> is a great adder.  Corsair came with this Drifter, a Blooper, and three 
> spinnakers (1/2 oz, 3/4 oz and 1.5 oz).  Corsair was purchased for the 71 
> Chi-Mac and the previous owners never got rid of anything (including the old 
> EPIRB and Loran).  We have 20 some odd sails hanging in the Pole barn (3 
> #1's, 2 #2's, 1 #3, Blooper, Drifter, Staysail, 3 Spins, Banana Staysail, 
> etc).  Anybody need any hanked on sails?
> 
> Neil Schiller
> 1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
> (C&C 35, Mark I)
> "Corsair" (originally christened as "Red Pepper")
> 
> On 2/13/2013 5:50 PM, Gary Nylander wrote:
>> Any of you old enough to remember the 'drifters'? We had one in the late 
>> '60's (friend's boat) that was about 180%. If you flattened that out and 
>> made it with a bit more of a luff/leech consideration, you would have an 
>> asym.
>>  
>> Gary
>> - Original Message -
>> From: Martin DeYoung
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:03 PM
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>> 
>> Maybe the PHRF rating people see an asso much like a 150+% genny.
>>  
>> I know when I stretch back Calypso’s 25 year old ¾ oz spinny on a tight 
>> reach the clew is back where a 160 – 170% headsails would be.
>>  
>> Martin
>> Calypso
>> 1970 C&C 43
>> Seattle
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel 
>> Aronson
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:56 PM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>>  
>> I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I don't know if 
>> asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some big-axx Code 0's out there.  
>> The penalty may be due, in part, to the greater efficiency on a beam reach.  
>>  
>> Joel
>> 35/3
>> Annapolis
>>  
>> 
>> On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S  wrote:
>> I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs 
>> running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see 
>> getting a rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see 
>> why using an asym with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting 
>> the pole further forward?   I think there is more to this.
>> 
>> Chuck
>> Resolute
>> 1990 C&C 34R
>> Atlantic City, NJ
>> From: "Gary Nylander" 
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM
>> 
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>> 
>> I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both 
>> from the pole.
>>  
>> He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is 
>> worth it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for 
>> reaching). But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the 
>> bomb' last time").
>>  
>> Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to be a lot of reaching to 
>> make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.
>>  
>> And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of the 
>> boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up. And, 
>> a heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a light one 
>> may.
>>  
>> He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.
>>  
>> Gary Nylander
>> St. Michaels MD
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Andrew Burton]

No I think it was small enough that it didn't close off the slot and stop our 
forward progress.

Andrew Burton
61 W Narragansett
Newport, RI 
USA02840

http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
+401 965-5260

On Feb 13, 2013, at 7:56 PM, Martin DeYoung  wrote:

> Maybe the only reason you were passing them was the Dazy staysail slowed your 
> rate of “negative VMG” (drift backwards owing to current).
>  
> Martin
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Andrew 
> Burton
> Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:48 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
>  
> I remember more than one Swiftsure when the conditions were too light for the 
> drifter so we shifted to the Dazy staysail and started passing boats.
> 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett
> Newport, RI 
> USA02840
>  
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
> +401 965-5260
> 
> On Feb 13, 2013, at 6:20 PM, Martin DeYoung  wrote:
> 
>> I fondly recall sitting to leeward holding the drifter’s clew by hand while 
>> going backwards in the current.  Sometimes this was in the fog or late at 
>> night.  Often when is was 0dark 30, cold and damp and I was changing back 
>> and forth between a drifter and a ½ oz spinny I would longingly gaze towards 
>> shore and wonder what the poor people were doing.
>>  
>> I salvaged a lightweight spinnaker staysail from a dumpster to use as a 
>> “windseeker” in goose egg conditions. (I have a picture on my office wall of 
>> a C&C 39 flying the same staysail in 1977.)  For drifter conditions I bought 
>> ($500) a lightly used very light Mylar/Kevlar laminate that is a little 
>> undersized but it was only $500.  When conditions are changing quickly we 
>> use Calypso’s light #1 which does very well from 3 to 10 knots TWS.
>>  
>> Martin
>> Calypso
>> 1970 C&C 43
>> Seattle
>  
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
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Re: Stus-List Attn: Harry-Miracle

[Wally Bryant]

you wrote:

Tim, this might be an opportunity to get creative; 
Yup, check out the options.  I can honestly say that redesigning the 
stern rails and adding seats was one of the most wonderful improvements 
to my cockpit.  It doubled the effective space.  The trick, of course, 
is to make it fit the lines of the boat. Anyway, perhaps the insurance 
plus a bit extra could make it better than it was before.


Here's what I did: 
 
Your boat is different, of course.


Wal


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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Martin DeYoung]

IIRC correctly bloopers prefer better than light air to be effective. I would 
guess 10 TWS and up may be successful.  While I was involved in many odd 
blooper configurations I do not recall sheeting it like a headsail.

There is an oft repeated line regarding bloopers (and staysails): They are ½ 
knot sails, you gain ½ knot when you put it up and you gain ½ knot when you 
take it down.

In the 70's and early 80's the bloopers were popular in longer down wind legs 
and offshore work.  On Transpac and Vic-Maui races we carried a hand crank 
sewing machine to fix the light weight bloopers as they often got wet then torn 
by a deep roll into a wave crest.  One G. Frers 49 footed I sailed to Hawaii 
had a large rudder that allowed us to set up DDW with a smallish 1.5 oz blooper 
and put on a contest to see who could dip the pole tip and boom end more times 
consecutively.  The off watch complained about something regarding spaghetti on 
the sole.

In very light DDW conditions give a poled out headsail on one side and a light 
staysail on the other a try.  The non collapsing projected area of the poled 
out headsail can be effective against an "elephant ass" shaped spinnaker that 
collapses every few minutes.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight veinot
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:18 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

Neil

Did you ever use your blooper or staysail?  I was wondering if either of these 
would have a use in light air, either used as the only headsail off the wind.  
I am planning to try that next summer.

Dwight Veinot
C&C 35 MKII, Alianna
Head of St. Margaret's Bay, NS


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of schiller
Sent: February 13, 2013 8:08 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

We have a 1/2 oz Drifter on Corsair that was made in 1971 that is always on the 
boat.  I can make a knot of boat speed with a knot of wind with it.  It has a 
wire luff that we can fly with the 150 rolled up.  This sail needs to be on the 
deck if the wind makes 8 knots true, but between 3 and 6 knots it is a great 
adder.  Corsair came with this Drifter, a Blooper, and three spinnakers (1/2 
oz, 3/4 oz and 1.5 oz).  Corsair was purchased for the 71 Chi-Mac and the 
previous owners never got rid of anything (including the old EPIRB and Loran).  
We have 20 some odd sails hanging in the Pole barn (3 #1's, 2 #2's, 1 #3, 
Blooper, Drifter, Staysail, 3 Spins, Banana Staysail, etc).  Anybody need any 
hanked on sails?

Neil Schiller
1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
(C&C 35, Mark I)
"Corsair" (originally christened as "Red Pepper")
On 2/13/2013 5:50 PM, Gary Nylander wrote:
Any of you old enough to remember the 'drifters'? We had one in the late '60's 
(friend's boat) that was about 180%. If you flattened that out and made it with 
a bit more of a luff/leech consideration, you would have an asym.

Gary
- Original Message -
From: Martin DeYoung
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

Maybe the PHRF rating people see an asso much like a 150+% genny.

I know when I stretch back Calypso's 25 year old ¾ oz spinny on a tight reach 
the clew is back where a 160 - 170% headsails would be.

Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel Aronson
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:56 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review

I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I don't know if 
asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some big-axx Code 0's out there.  The 
penalty may be due, in part, to the greater efficiency on a beam reach.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis

On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S 
mailto:cscheaf...@comcast.net>> wrote:
I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs running, 
but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see getting a rating 
hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see why using an asym 
with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting the pole further 
forward?   I think there is more to this.
Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic City, NJ

From: "Gary Nylander" 
mailto:gnylan...@atlanticbb.net>>
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM

Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both from 
the pole.

He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is worth 
it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for reaching). 
Bu

Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Dennis C.]

Blooper - the only sail you trim with the halyard.  Guess I'm old.

Dennis C.
Touche' 35-1 #83
Mandeville, LA





>
> From: Andrew Burton 
>To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 6:58 PM
>Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
> 
>
>I would love to have a blooper for Peregrine. We have a round the island race 
>here and one side is generally DDW. I can only imagine the looks I'd get when 
>I hoisted it...and I have enough friends who are old enough that they know how 
>to fly one!
>
>Andrew Burton
>61 W Narragansett
>Newport, RI 
>USA    02840
>
>http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/
>+401 965-5260
>
>On Feb 13, 2013, at 7:07 PM, schiller  wrote:
>
>
>We have a 1/2 oz Drifter on Corsair that was made in 1971 that is always on 
>the boat.  I can make a knot of boat speed with a knot of wind with it.  It 
>has a wire luff that we can fly with the 150 rolled up.  This sail needs to be 
>on the deck if the wind makes 8 knots true, but between 3 and 6 knots it is a 
>great adder.  Corsair came with this Drifter, a Blooper, and three spinnakers 
>(1/2 oz, 3/4 oz and 1.5 oz).  Corsair was purchased for the 71 Chi-Mac and the 
>previous owners never got rid of anything (including the old EPIRB and Loran). 
> We have 20 some odd sails hanging in the Pole barn (3 #1's, 2 #2's, 1 #3, 
>Blooper, Drifter, Staysail, 3 Spins, Banana Staysail, etc).  Anybody need any 
>hanked on sails?
>>
>>Neil Schiller
>>1970 Redwing 35, Hull #7
>>(C&C 35, Mark I)
>>"Corsair" (originally christened as "Red Pepper")
>>
>>
>>On 2/13/2013 5:50 PM, Gary Nylander wrote:
>>
>> 
>>>Any of you old enough to remember the 'drifters'? We had one in the late 
>>>'60's (friend's boat) that was about 180%. If you flattened that out and 
>>>made it with a bit more of a luff/leech consideration, you would have an 
>>>asym.
>>> 
>>>Gary
>>>- Original Message - 
From: Martin DeYoung 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review


Maybe the PHRF rating people see an asso much like a 150+% genny.
 
I know when I stretch back Calypso’s 25 year old ¾ oz spinny on a tight 
reach the clew is back where a 160 – 170% headsails would be.
 
Martin
Calypso
1970 C&C 43
Seattle


 
From:CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Joel 
Aronson
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 1:56 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
 
I'm a little surprised too.  We are assuming the pole = J.  I don't know if 
asyms are necessarily smaller.  There are some big-axx Code 0's out there.  
The penalty may be due, in part, to the greater efficiency on a beam reach. 
 
 
Joel
35/3
Annapolis
 
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 4:49 PM, Chuck S  wrote:
I appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs 
running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake?  I could see 
getting a rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't 
see why using an asym with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he 
mounting the pole further forward?   I think there is more to this.
Chuck
Resolute
1990 C&C 34R
Atlantic
  City , NJ


 
From: "Gary Nylander" 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PM

Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review
I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and asym. Flies both 
from the pole.
 
He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does not think it is 
worth it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west winds for 
reaching). But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 'the 
bomb' last time").
 
Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to be a lot of reaching to 
make up for the windward and leeward parts of a race.
 
And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way out in front of the 
boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to tangle up. 
And, a heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a light 
one may.
 
He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their policy.
 
Gary Nylander
St. Michaels MD 

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Re: Stus-List limber holes - now Floors, Frames, and Stringers

[Wally Bryant]

Um.  Uh Oh, Here I go.  (gee, that rhymes, maybe I'm a cowboy poet after 
all.)


There once was a "Dictionary Of Common Usage" published back in the 
1970's.  It sold well.  It was back when the stuffed shirts wouldn't 
recognize "ain't" as a word.  In response, the Oxford English Dictionary 
now recognizes "ain't" as a word.


So, what's a floor?  Well, let's think about that.  I recently heard a 
proud owner of a big sailboat usher guests on board, saying "You Have to 
Check Out The Bathroom."  Okay, the boat is only five feet longer than 
mine, and I don't have a frickin' bathroom.  (BTW, I think "Frickin'" is 
probably a word now...)


This whole linguistic exercise is even more amusing if you talk about 
your sole.  I mean, really, do boats have soles?

Is winter over yet?

Wal

Joel wrote:

Let me see if I get it right:



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Stus-List Handicap Review

[TOM VINCENT]

Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several 
responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what 
penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the 
asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis Boat 
show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia River which 
is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of the Chesapeake 
Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have been racing the C&C 
36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and my worst finish overall 
was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the fleet and have an average of 
10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the fleet with a rating of 147 non 
spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was using the ATN sock for two years and 
then purchased a bag as a turtle with better results. We have learned how to 
gybe the shoot with a degree of success with practice. The sprit should make it 
much easier to gybe, as I understand I can do an inside gybe with the sprit. 
The assym has a girth of 180% and a sail area of 1090, it is one big red sail. 
When we are on a broad reach the boat takes off, down wind we sail off about 20 
degrees and gybe. I hope this info helps a few members.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II
Chesapeake City, MD
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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Joel Aronson]

Tom,

WHy was the sock ineffective?  I'm thinking of getting one, mostly for
cruising.
You are right.  There will likely be a penalty, but no one knows what it
will be.  I suspect the longer the pole the greater the penalty.  I've done
inside and outside gybes  without a pole.  The outside is easier unless you
have  good crew.

Joel
35/3
Annapolis
Sent from my iPad

On Feb 13, 2013, at 9:32 PM, TOM VINCENT  wrote:

 Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several
responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what
penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the
asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis
Boat show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia
River which is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of
the Chesapeake Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have
been racing the C&C 36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and
my worst finish overall was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the
fleet and have an average of 10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the
fleet with a rating of 147 non spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was
using the ATN sock for two years and then purchased a bag as a turtle with
better results. We have learned how to gybe the shoot with a degree of
success with practice. The sprit should make it much easier to gybe, as I
understand I can do an inside gybe with the sprit. The assym has a girth of
180% and a sail area of 1090, it is one big red sail. When we are on a
broad reach the boat takes off, down wind we sail off about 20 degrees and
gybe. I hope this info helps a few members.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II
Chesapeake City, MD

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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Jake Brodersen]

Tom,

 

As another Chesapeake sailor I can understand your question.  The best thing
you could do would be to contact your local handicapper.  While he can't
give you a definitive answer, he might be able to give you an idea of which
direction your rating might change and a rough amount.  It's always best to
ask the question before plunking down your cash for the modification,
although in this case you could install it and try it out.  It sounds like
it will improve your sail handling.  How long is the sprit?

 

Jake

 

Jake Brodersen

C&C 35 Mk-III

Midnight Mistress

Hampton VA

 

 

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of TOM
VINCENT
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:32 PM
To: C&C Forum
Subject: Stus-List Handicap Review

 

Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several
responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what
penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the
asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis
Boat show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia
River which is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of
the Chesapeake Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have
been racing the C&C 36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and
my worst finish overall was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the
fleet and have an average of 10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the fleet
with a rating of 147 non spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was using the
ATN sock for two years and then purchased a bag as a turtle with better
results. We have learned how to gybe the shoot with a degree of success with
practice. The sprit should make it much easier to gybe, as I understand I
can do an inside gybe with the sprit. The assym has a girth of 180% and a
sail area of 1090, it is one big red sail. When we are on a broad reach the
boat takes off, down wind we sail off about 20 degrees and gybe. I hope this
info helps a few members.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II
Chesapeake City, MD

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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Dennis C.]

Tom,

My local PHRF committee has addressed the issue of adding a sprit to a 
non-sprit boat.  I sent you a copy, OFFLIST, of the minutes of their last 
meeting where a modification was made to the applicable rule.

Dennis C.





>
> From: TOM VINCENT 
>To: C&C Forum  
>Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 8:32 PM
>Subject: Stus-List Handicap Review
> 
>
> 
>Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several 
>responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what 
>penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the 
>asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis Boat 
>show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia River 
>which is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of the 
>Chesapeake Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have been 
>racing the C&C 36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and my worst 
>finish overall was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the fleet and 
>have an average of 10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the fleet with a 
>rating of 147 non spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was using the ATN sock 
>for two years and then purchased a bag as a turtle with better results. We 
>have learned how to gybe the shoot with a degree of success with
 practice. The sprit should make it much easier to gybe, as I understand I can 
do an inside gybe with the sprit. The assym has a girth of 180% and a sail area 
of 1090, it is one big red sail. When we are on a broad reach the boat takes 
off, down wind we sail off about 20 degrees and gybe. I hope this info helps a 
few members.
>
>Tom Vincent
>Frolic II
>Chesapeake City, MD
>
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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Richard N. Bush]

Tom, I'd like to see a photo of that sail!


Richard
1987 33-II

Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
235 South Fifth Street, Fourth Floor 
Louisville, Kentucky 40202 
502-584-7255



-Original Message-
From: TOM VINCENT 
To: C&C Forum 
Sent: Wed, Feb 13, 2013 9:32 pm
Subject: Stus-List Handicap Review


Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several 
responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what 
penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the 
asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis Boat 
show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia River which 
is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of the Chesapeake 
Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have been racing the C&C 
36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and my worst finish overall 
was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the fleet and have an average of 
10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the fleet with a rating of 147 non 
spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was using the ATN sock for two years and 
then purchased a bag as a turtle with better results. We have learned how to 
gybe the shoot with a degree of success with practice. The sprit should make it 
much easier to gybe, as I understand I can do an inside gybe with the sprit. 
The assym has a girth of 180% and a sail area of 1090, it is one big red sail. 
When we are on a broad reach the boat takes off, down wind we sail off about 20 
degrees and gybe. I hope this info helps a few members.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II
Chesapeake City, MD
  
 
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Re: Stus-List Handicap Review

[Rick Brass]

Tom;

 

I thought that one of the Chessie sailors had indicated that the penalty for
a long pole in Chessie Phrf was -3 for a pole longer than J but less than
110% of J, and -6 for a pole longer than 110% or more of J.

 

I've spent the last half hour reading the documents on the Chessie PHRF
site, and cannot find this in the rules. But the rules do say you can tack
your asymmetric to the stem, a pole, or a bowsprit. If a pole, the max
unpenalized SPL = J. If a Bowsprit, the max unpenalized BS = J. So you will
take a hit if you use a bowsprit. The upside may be that the max unpenalized
foot for an asymmetrical AF on a pole  = 180% of J, but the max unpenalized
AF for an asymmetrical on a bowsprit is 180% of BS. So if you use a bowsprit
longer than J, you can also use an oversized asymmetrical spin with no
further penalty.

 

That may not be a lot of consolation unless you have enough cash on hand for
another spinnaker.

 

Jake is correct. The best thing for you to do is to give your local PHRF rep
a call and ask him. You'll find a list of all the PHRF reps at
http://www.phrfchesbay.com/hdp12399.htm .

 

I was thinking about updating mu old Chessie PHRF rating to use in Joe Della
Barbra's race in July. But as I look at all the requirements on the form, I
may pass and just go with my NCPHRF plus 6 seconds.

 

Rick Brass

Washington, NC

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of TOM
VINCENT
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 9:32 PM
To: C&C Forum
Subject: Stus-List Handicap Review

 

Several weeks ago I asked a question on the forum and there were several
responses, basically no one really knows the answer. My question was, what
penalty would I incur by adding a bow sprit to my foredeck for flying the
asymmetrical spinnaker. I had purchased a Forespar sprit at the Annapolis
Boat show with plans on installing it this spring. I race on the Bohemia
River which is on the upper end of the Chesapeake Bay. We use the PHRF of
the Chesapeake Bay as our guideline for our Wednesday night races. I have
been racing the C&C 36' cb for 5 years and have won the series 2 times and
my worst finish overall was a 3rd for the season. We have 15 boats in the
fleet and have an average of 10 boats racing. I am the big boat of the fleet
with a rating of 147 non spinnaker and 127 with spinnaker. I was using the
ATN sock for two years and then purchased a bag as a turtle with better
results. We have learned how to gybe the shoot with a degree of success with
practice. The sprit should make it much easier to gybe, as I understand I
can do an inside gybe with the sprit. The assym has a girth of 180% and a
sail area of 1090, it is one big red sail. When we are on a broad reach the
boat takes off, down wind we sail off about 20 degrees and gybe. I hope this
info helps a few members.

Tom Vincent
Frolic II
Chesapeake City, MD

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Re: Stus-List Handicap review

[Ronald B. Frerker]

Don't most boats with A-chutes have a pole extended beyond the bow?  That would be the 3sec/mi since that's the penalty for a J less than 10% longer.RonWild CheriC&C 30STL--- On Wed, 2/13/13, Chuck S  wrote:From: Chuck S Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap reviewTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comDate: Wednesday, February 13, 2013, 3:49 PMI appreciate the analysis of when each sail is preferred, reaching vs running, but isn't an asym smaller than a full spinnake? 
 I could see getting a rating hit for a sprit, just like a pole longer than J.  Can't see why using an asym with standard pole would hurt his rating?  Is he mounting the pole further forward?   I think there is more to this.ChuckResolute1990 C&C 34RAtlantic City, NJFrom: "Gary Nylander" To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:27:22 PMSubject: Re: Stus-List Handicap review






I checked with my expert - Cal 40 with both regular and 
asym. Flies both from the pole.
 
He gets a 3 second hit for the asym (Ches Bay) and does 
not think it is worth it for sailing on the Chesapeake (not a lot of east/west 
winds for reaching). But, finds it is very handy for Newport to Bermuda ("it was 
'the bomb' last time").
 
Figure that the 3 seconds is always so there has to 
be a lot of reaching to make up for the windward and leeward parts of a 
race.
 
And, he says it is a b...h to jibe. Must go all the way 
out in front of the boat as you are turning the boat - has many opportunities to 
tangle up. And, a heavy boat like his doesn't get that quick acceleration that a 
light one may.
 
He's hoping that ChesBay PHRF will re-think their 
policy.
 
Gary Nylander
St. Michaels MD

  - Original Message - 
  From: 
  Jake 
  Brodersen 
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Sent: Monday, February 11, 2013 9:12 
  PM
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap 
  review
  
  
  Bill,
   
  I 
  really appreciate the info. About 90% of our racing is all W-L courses.  
  The symmetrical chutes run deep real well.  We have one J-105 with an 
  asym.  He races all by himself.  It doesn’t look fun.  I can 
  see the value for reaching though.  It does do that well.  I might 
  consider one for cruising.  Not sure I’d want to use it to race.  
  I’d have to declare it on my PHRF certificate.  Not sure what they’d do 
  to my rating.
   
  Jake
   
  
  
  From: CnC-List 
  [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Bill 
  ColemanSent: Monday, February 11, 2013 8:19 PMTo: 
  cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Re: Stus-List Handicap 
  review
   
  Jake, 
  
  I 
  don’t think I am usually as aggressive as you, I am guessing, but – (these are 
  on distance races)  I normally start out with an A sail on a headsail 
  tack shackle– if the wind comes back, and I believe it will stay back, I will 
  put the pole on the A sail tack and pop the bow shackle, then pull the pole 
  back. If it goes back to a close reach, the pole usually ends up on the 
  headstay  pulled down hard.  I have re-attached the pennant  to 
  get rid of the pole, but usually not, as it keeps the tack a little more to 
  windward.
  In 
  anything but mostly downwind, I think the Asymmetrical  has a better 
  shape for broad reaching than a big bubble.
  Unfortunately 
   around here, regular spinnaker races are windward leeward because it is 
  run by the people with the newer light boats, and then we have to use a 
  regular symmetrical chute.
  I 
  would like to have at least an anchor roller to attach the asymmetrical to, 
  because I have run into problems  with the chute wrapping around the 
  headstay.  It would be REALLY good to get it away from the headstay. 
   Did I mention that the headstay is a problem with Asymmetricals? 
  
  Regarding 
  the sissy socks, I have a VF Shaw Chute Scoop sock, it can be really handy 
  when things get ugly and you are short handed.
  I 
  am also tempted by the newer roller furlers, but they are pricy. 
   
  Also 
  jibing can run into problems.   This takes practice. There are 
  several articles on this.  We still occasionally screw this up.  I 
  would rather douse it and re-set it, because, percentage-wise, it would put me 
  in the positive. Keep in mind, these are distance races, and we have but a few 
  crew
   
  
  Bill 
  Coleman
  C&C 
  39 
  
  

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