date:20200420

People think they are blameless, they are just exercising their right to be an 
a**hole online.  Then they do the equivalent of killing John Wick’s puppy.  And 
their online activity has repercussions IRL.

 

Or maybe a better analogy would be my favorite YouTube clip of the moon landing 
denier harassing Buzz Aldrin and getting punched.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Steve Jones
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 11:57 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] customers with repeat DDoS attacks

 

You could put a waivable 30 day suspension in your TOS, for first infraction 
with a non waivable 30 day suspension for a second within 36 months and 1500 
dollar reconnect fee.

The first one might have simply been beating some script kiddy in a fornite 
match. The second needs to hurt.

 

1500 is relatively inexpensive considering the cost of mitigation to you as 
well as the global cost to your other customers in lost productivity.

 

Theyll file an fcc complaint, it will go nowhere, theyll hit the bbb, it will 
go nowhere, theyll bad review you, it will be a short hit, but better than 
constant service interruptions for your other customers.

 

Hopefully they terminate service during the suspension period

 

We got a heads up on one of these guys, thank god. He was NLOS before we even 
had his paperwork and luckily he was actual NLOS. I dont know if he ever found 
a provider, dont care, F that guy

 

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:51 PM Seth Mattinen mailto:se...@rollernet.us> > wrote:

On 4/19/20 4:43 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> Hadn't thought of that, is it feasible?


If it's a console you could block ranges XBL or PSN are using. Blocking 
PC gaming might be harder. If you want to put the effort into either vs. 
the easier option of telling the customer they need to find a new ISP.

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Re: [AFMUG] customers with repeat DDoS attacks

2020-04-20 Thread Dennis Burgess via AF

Disconnect customer. Not worth the issues.  Simple as that.


[LTI-Full_175px]
Dennis Burgess, Mikrotik Certified Trainer
MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE, MTCSE, HE IPv6 Sage, Cambium ePMP Certified
Author of "Learn RouterOS- Second Edition"
Link Technologies, Inc -- Mikrotik & WISP Support Services
Office: 314-735-0270  Website: 
http://www.linktechs.net
Create Wireless Coverage's with www.towercoverage.com

From: AF  On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2020 6:29 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [AFMUG] customers with repeat DDoS attacks

Has anyone come up with a successful strategy for customers who manage to 
provoke repeated DDoS attacks against them, other than to disconnect their 
service?

I've got one who just got their 3rd strike after 2 previous warnings.

In 20 years in this business, I've only had this happen once previously.  That 
customer begged and pleaded and said it wouldn't happen again, he needed 
Internet for his business, he said it was his son's fault and he would ban his 
son from using the Internet.  So I turned him back on and of course it happened 
again.

Given the pandemic, I'd like to think there is something I could do, like 
require a detailed explanation of what happened (I assume one of his gamer kids 
keeps talking smack and getting booted), and how he has dealt with the 
situation.  But given my limited previous experience, I expect that would just 
be gullible on my part, like Charlie Brown and the football.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

2020-04-20 Thread Jaime Solorza

Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands
from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes 
wrote:

> This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths
> related to usual activities.
>
> On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> wrote:
>
> I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this
> time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall,
> even with the virus.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
> On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> 
> Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen deaths
> in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  All
> in a few short months.
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Re: [AFMUG] funny - Sierra la Puerta

2020-04-20 Thread Jaime Solorza

Claro que si mi buen Gino...saludos y abrazos

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 3:46 AM Gino A. Villarini  wrote:

> Also, Saw the door… as in the tool…
>
>
>
> *Gino*
> *Villarini *Founder/President
> @gvillarini
> t: 787.273.4143 Ext. 204
> m:
> [image: aeronet-logo]  [image: inc500]
>  [image: fb-logo]
>   [image: insta-logo]
>   [image: in-logo]
>   [image:
> tw-logo]
> 
>   [image: yt-logo]
> 
> www.aeronetpr.com | Metro Office Park #18 Suite 304 Guaynabo, PR 00968
>
> *From: *AF  on behalf of Jaime Solorza <
> losguyswirel...@gmail.com>
> *Reply-To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Date: *Saturday, April 18, 2020 at 8:32 PM
> *To: *AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] funny - Sierra la Puerta
>
>
>
> Literally it's .. mountain range the door.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 5:57 PM  wrote:
>
> Mountains of doors
>
>
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 18, 2020 5:28 PM
>
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] funny - Sierra la Puerta
>
>
>
> Maybe if they spelled it right, the puerta would be cerrada.
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

2020-04-20 Thread Josh Luthman

It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did
payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of
the account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm
told, should suffice.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:

> Lewis,
> Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the loan
> proceeds for approved uses?
> Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general checking
> account.
> I think we put them in a separate savings account.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>
> $10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between all
> the companies.
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:
>
>> Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:

If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan politics 
before they even left the spacecraft.  

If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a catch, 
PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands from 
stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

  This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths 
related to usual activities.

  On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  wrote:


I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this 
time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall, even 
with the virus.


Jeff Broadwick 
CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com


  On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


   
  Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen 
deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  
All in a few short months.  
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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying myself...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did 
payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of the 
account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm told, 
should suffice.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:

  Lewis,
  Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the loan 
proceeds for approved uses?
  Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general checking 
account.  
  I think we put them in a separate savings account.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

  $10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between all the 
companies. 

  On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:

Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
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[AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Blame Bill Gates.  And 5G.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:17 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:

If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan politics 
before they even left the spacecraft.  

If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a catch, 
PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.  

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands from 
stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:

This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths related 
to usual activities.

On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists mailto:jeffl...@att.net> > wrote:

I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this time.  
I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall, even with 
the virus.

Jeff Broadwick 

CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office

574-220-7826 Cell

jbroadw...@cticonnect.com  

On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen deaths in 
the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  All in a few 
short months.  

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  _  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

2020-04-20 Thread Mike Hammett

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRkXF3TKy54 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:20:55 AM 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism 




Looks a bit Gaussian to me. I hope... 

image
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that
curve and say it's over, I don't know.  That curve is probably dominated by
the early hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still
only slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in
refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It
hasn't even begun to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that
will be the long tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and
brought a big second wave.

 

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, dealing
with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their families.
If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren't going to have
any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, even if they don't
get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out, this may be a war,
but even soldiers aren't asked to put their family's lives at risk.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

 

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

 



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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Injections?... hmmm  Depending on the injection might be kinda pleasant.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:22 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Blame Bill Gates.  And 5G.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:17 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:

If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan politics 
before they even left the spacecraft.  

If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a catch, 
PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.  

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands from 
stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

  This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths 
related to usual activities.

  On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  wrote:

I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this 
time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall, even 
with the virus.

Jeff Broadwick 

CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office

574-220-7826 Cell

jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

  On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen 
deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  
All in a few short months.  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I look at the curve and say we are half over.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that curve 
and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by the early 
hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still only slightly 
off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at 
hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep 
over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave.

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, dealing 
with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their families.  
If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going to have 
any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, even if they don’t 
get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out, this may be a war, but 
even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at risk.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I am guessing we don’t want to degauss this curve.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:23 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRkXF3TKy54




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: af@af.afmug.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:20:55 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...



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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Unless we relax and get a double bump.  

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I look at the curve and say we are half over.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that curve 
and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by the early 
hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still only slightly 
off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at 
hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep 
over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave.

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, dealing 
with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their families.  
If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going to have 
any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, even if they don’t 
get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out, this may be a war, but 
even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at risk.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

2020-04-20 Thread Mike Hammett

I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable without China-level 
lock-downs or vaccines. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism 




Unless we relax and get a double bump. 




From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM 
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism 




I look at the curve and say we are half over. 




From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM 
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism 



That probably is (modestly) good news. But how anyone can look at that curve 
and say it’s over, I don’t know. That curve is probably dominated by the early 
hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still only slightly 
off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at 
hospitals. And the nursing homes and prisons. It hasn’t even begun to sweep 
over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve. Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave. 

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, dealing 
with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their families. If 
this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going to have any 
doctors and nurses. Who would do that job long term, even if they don’t get 
sick and die? As various people have pointed out, this may be a war, but even 
soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at risk. 




From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism 




Looks a bit Gaussian to me. I hope... 



image

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

2020-04-20 Thread castarritt .

It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective
treatment methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in an
attempt to cause a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the
healthcare industry too much, but eventually cause enough people to catch
the virus that we develop herd immunity.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

> I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without
> China-level lock-downs or vaccines.
>
>
>
> -
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Midwest Internet Exchange 
> 
> 
> 
> The Brothers WISP 
> 
>
>
> 
> --
> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
> *Sent: *Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
> Unless we relax and get a double bump.
>
> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
> I look at the curve and say we are half over.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
>
> That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that
> curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by
> the early hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still
> only slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in
> refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It
> hasn’t even begun to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals,
> that will be the long tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up
> and brought a big second wave.
>
>
>
> Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying,
> dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their
> families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t
> going to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term,
> even if they don’t get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out,
> this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s
> lives at risk.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
>
>
> Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...
>
>
>
> [image: image]
>
> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Moo

From: castarritt . 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective treatment 
methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in an attempt to cause 
a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the healthcare industry too much, but 
eventually cause enough people to catch the virus that we develop herd immunity.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

  I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without China-level 
lock-downs or vaccines.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  Unless we relax and get a double bump.  

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  I look at the curve and say we are half over.  

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that curve 
and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by the early 
hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still only slightly 
off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at 
hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep 
over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave.

  Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, dealing 
with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their families.  
If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going to have 
any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, even if they don’t 
get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out, this may be a war, but 
even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at risk.

  From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Hopefully we will have a vaccine by fall.  Hopefully they will have sorted out 
what treatments work by July.  Hopefully lotsa good testing by June.
But baseball seems to be totally f*cked.  Hopefully not college football too...

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without China-level 
lock-downs or vaccines.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Unless we relax and get a double bump.  

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I look at the curve and say we are half over.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that curve 
and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by the early 
hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still only slightly 
off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at 
hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep 
over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave.

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, dealing 
with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their families.  
If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going to have 
any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, even if they don’t 
get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out, this may be a war, but 
even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at risk.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


Why are we mooing?

Can I cluck like a chicken instead?


On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Moo
*From:* castarritt .
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective 
treatment methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in 
an attempt to cause a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the 
healthcare industry too much, but eventually cause enough people to 
catch the virus that we develop herd immunity.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without
China-level lock-downs or vaccines.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 





*From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Unless we relax and get a double bump.
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
I look at the curve and say we are half over.
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at
that curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is
probably dominated by the early hit densely populated areas like
New York, where they are still only slightly off the peak death
rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at
hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even
begun to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that
will be the long tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we
screwed up and brought a big second wave.

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and
dying, dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about
infecting their families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2
years from now, we aren’t going to have any doctors and nurses. 
Who would do that job long term, even if they don’t get sick and
die?  As various people have pointed out, this may be a war, but
even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at risk.

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

image


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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


  
  
I think fall is overly optimistic. That would barely be enough to
  get through early testing. Early 2021 is my bet for the earliest
  availability of an actual vaccine.


bp



On 4/20/2020 9:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  
  

  Hopefully we will have a vaccine by fall.  Hopefully they
will have sorted out what treatments work by July. 
Hopefully lotsa good testing by June.
  But baseball seems to be totally f*cked.  Hopefully not
college football too...
  

   
  
From: Mike
Hammett 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:49 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope
  and optimism
  

 
  
  
I think double
  or even triple bumps are inevitable  without
  China-level lock-downs or vaccines.
  
  

-
Mike
  Hammett
Intelligent
  Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

  
  

  
  
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and
optimism




  
Unless we relax and get a double bump.  

  
 

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44
AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm
  Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a
bit of hope and optimism

  
   


  

  I look at the curve and say we are half
over.  
  

   
  
From:
  Ken Hohhof

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020
  9:33 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT
  still a bit of hope and optimism
  

 
  
  

  That probably is
(modestly) good news.  But how anyone
can look at that curve and say it’s
over, I don’t know.  That curve is
probably dominated by the early hit
densely populated areas like New York,
where they are still only slightly off
the peak death rate and are still piling
bodies in refrigerated trucks at
hospitals.  And the nursing homes and
prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep
over the less dense areas with no
hospitals, that will be the long tail of
the curve.  Then we find out if we
screwed up and brought a big second
wave.
   
  Very worrisome is the
healthcare workers getting infected and
dying, dealing with patients dying on
every shift, worrying about infecting
their families.  If this is still coming
in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t
going to have any doctors and nurses. 
Who would d

Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

2020-04-20 Thread castarritt .

I said herd immunity, but brood immunity does sound cooler.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:07 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

> Why are we mooing?
>
> Can I cluck like a chicken instead?
>
>
> On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Moo
>
> *From:* castarritt .
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
> It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective
> treatment methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in an
> attempt to cause a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the healthcare
> industry too much, but eventually cause enough people to catch the virus
> that we develop herd immunity.
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>
>> I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without
>> China-level lock-downs or vaccines.
>>
>>
>>
>> -
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The Brothers WISP 
>> 
>>
>>
>> 
>> --
>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>> *Sent: *Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>
>> Unless we relax and get a double bump.
>>
>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>
>> I look at the curve and say we are half over.
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>
>>
>> That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that
>> curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by
>> the early hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still
>> only slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in
>> refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It
>> hasn’t even begun to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals,
>> that will be the long tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up
>> and brought a big second wave.
>>
>>
>>
>> Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying,
>> dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their
>> families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t
>> going to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term,
>> even if they don’t get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out,
>> this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s
>> lives at risk.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>
>>
>>
>> Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...
>>
>>
>>
>> [image: image]
>> --
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


  
  
We got this at 20:00 last night.


bp



On 4/20/2020 9:07 AM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:


  
  Why are we mooing?
  Can I cluck like a chicken instead?
  
  
  On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
  
  


  
Moo

  
 

  From: castarritt . 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
  Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of
hope and optimism

  
   


  It's looking like the doctors have come up
with reasonably effective treatment methods, so I bet we
will slowly relax social distancing in an attempt to
cause a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the
healthcare industry too much, but eventually cause
enough people to catch the virus that we develop herd
immunity.
   
  
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020
  at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett 
  wrote:


  
I
  think double or even triple bumps are
  inevitable  without China-level lock-downs or
  vaccines.
  
  

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing
  Solutions

Midwest
  Internet Exchange

The
  Brothers WISP

  
  

  
  
  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of
hope and optimism


  
Unless we relax and get a double bump. 


  
 

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  
  Sent: Monday, April 20,
2020 9:44 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm
  Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT
still a bit of hope and optimism

  
   


  

  I look at the curve and say we
are half over.  
  

   
  
From: Ken
Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, April
  20, 2020 9:33 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG]
  OT still a bit of hope and
  optimism
  

 
  
  

  That probably
is (modestly) good news.  But
how anyone can look at that
curve and say it’s over, I don’t
know.  That curve is probably
dominated by the early hit
densely populated areas like New
York, where they are still only
slightl

Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Harem immunity.

From: castarritt . 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:09 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I said herd immunity, but brood immunity does sound cooler.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:07 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:

  Why are we mooing?

  Can I cluck like a chicken instead?

  On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Moo

From: castarritt . 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective 
treatment methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in an 
attempt to cause a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the healthcare 
industry too much, but eventually cause enough people to catch the virus that 
we develop herd immunity.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

  I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without 
China-level lock-downs or vaccines.

  -
  Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions

  Midwest Internet Exchange

  The Brothers WISP

--

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com
  To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  Unless we relax and get a double bump.  

  From: ch...@wbmfg.com 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  I look at the curve and say we are half over.  

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that 
curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by the 
early hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still only 
slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated 
trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun 
to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long 
tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second 
wave.

  Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, 
dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their 
families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going 
to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, even if they 
don’t get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out, this may be a war, 
but even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at risk.

  From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


  
  
Time will tell based on whether it actually starts declining in a
  meaningful way, or whether we're going to bump along for a bit.
  Remember, the goal was to flatten the curve; it wasn't necessarily
  going to reduce the number of infections. I get the impression
  that the medical community has learned a lot about how to actually
  treat it. 

Let's see where we are a week from today (April 27). If we are
  over 1 million infections, this may be going a while yet. If it is
  under 1 million, I would be more encouraged.

bp



On 4/20/2020 8:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...
   
  

  
  
  

  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone 
thinks you're talking about someone else but not them. It's everyone and 
it always will be.


Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality 
of "what will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want 
voters to think I'm doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be 
re-elected.  We all, in theory, want our politicians to do the right 
thing and tell the truth about it, but in reality they're going to do 
what they think their voters want, or if they can't then they'll try to 
tell them what they want to hear.  We can't expect anything other than 
politics from politicians.  When someone gets a job by winning a 
popularity contest they're going to be somewhat narcissistic to begin 
with.  The ones who keep the job the longest are the ones with the most 
narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the greatest skill at 
deflecting, equivocating, and outright BS'ing.


I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons 
or parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in 
general.  The problem of course is that every other method is worse.



On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:
If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan 
politics before they even left the spacecraft.
If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a 
catch, PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.

*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs 
hands from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:


This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other
deaths related to usual activities.

On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists
 wrote:


I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US
during this time.  I suspect that they will be down from their
usual levels, overall, even with the virus.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com


On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US
servicemen deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass
Vietnam before we are done.  All in a few short months.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

It would not be a correct assumption that this man is telling the truth. He
may very well have gotten the cargo shipment. He's 100 percent lying about
the ppe shortage at the chicago hospitals, this comes from nurses there,
not politicians and administrators.
He lied about getting the wrong masks from the feds, there's also that. He
is exactly what you incorrectly believe trump is. You have to understand,
prickster thinks obama, being a chicagoan is going to get him a ticket to
the whitehouse.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 9:57 AM Jaime Solorza 
wrote:

> Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands
> from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths
>> related to usual activities.
>>
>> On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this
>> time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall,
>> even with the virus.
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> CTIconnect
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen
>> deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are
>> done.  All in a few short months.
>> --
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>>
>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

What are the treatments that are now working?  I try to be optimistic about
antivirals and convalescent plasma, but right now they mainly have
ventilators, which honestly aren't very successful if 70-80% of the people
die.  They keep doing that because it's the textbook therapy for respiratory
distress, but it ain't working.  Even if it were working, ventilators are
not a treatment, they don't reverse the disease, they are just a measure to
get you oxygen while your body hopefully fights the infection.  And then you
have the people experiencing kidney failure and needing dialysis, they're
not sure if the damage is permanent.

 

I hope you're right that the medical community has learned how to treat it,
but I haven't heard the evidence for that.

 

Regarding a vaccine, one interesting piece of information I read was that
even if they develop a successful and safe vaccine (many challenges
including the sensitization problem), then they have to scale up vaccine
production.  Right now most vaccines are just for each new wave of
schoolchildren, this would have to be for the entire population.  And not in
chicken eggs, it would have to be in big vats.  And the interesting part is
they could repurpose fermentation tanks used for things like brewing beer.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:20 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

 

Time will tell based on whether it actually starts declining in a meaningful
way, or whether we're going to bump along for a bit. Remember, the goal was
to flatten the curve; it wasn't necessarily going to reduce the number of
infections. I get the impression that the medical community has learned a
lot about how to actually treat it. 

Let's see where we are a week from today (April 27). If we are over 1
million infections, this may be going a while yet. If it is under 1 million,
I would be more encouraged.

bp

 

On 4/20/2020 8:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

 







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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

2020-04-20 Thread Mike Hammett

I think Bill Gates said his foundation was going to fund full production lines 
of the top 7 or so vaccines ASAP, scrapping all but the one or two eventually 
chosen to actually treat the world with. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: "Ken Hohhof"  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"  
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:33:55 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism 



What are the treatments that are now working? I try to be optimistic about 
antivirals and convalescent plasma, but right now they mainly have ventilators, 
which honestly aren’t very successful if 70-80% of the people die. They keep 
doing that because it’s the textbook therapy for respiratory distress, but it 
ain’t working. Even if it were working, ventilators are not a treatment, they 
don’t reverse the disease, they are just a measure to get you oxygen while your 
body hopefully fights the infection. And then you have the people experiencing 
kidney failure and needing dialysis, they’re not sure if the damage is 
permanent. 

I hope you’re right that the medical community has learned how to treat it, but 
I haven’t heard the evidence for that. 

Regarding a vaccine, one interesting piece of information I read was that even 
if they develop a successful and safe vaccine (many challenges including the 
sensitization problem), then they have to scale up vaccine production. Right 
now most vaccines are just for each new wave of schoolchildren, this would have 
to be for the entire population. And not in chicken eggs, it would have to be 
in big vats. And the interesting part is they could repurpose fermentation 
tanks used for things like brewing beer. 




From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:20 AM 
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism 

Time will tell based on whether it actually starts declining in a meaningful 
way, or whether we're going to bump along for a bit. Remember, the goal was to 
flatten the curve; it wasn't necessarily going to reduce the number of 
infections. I get the impression that the medical community has learned a lot 
about how to actually treat it. 
Let's see where we are a week from today (April 27). If we are over 1 million 
infections, this may be going a while yet. If it is under 1 million, I would be 
more encouraged. bp  

On 4/20/2020 8:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: 





Looks a bit Gaussian to me. I hope... 



image





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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Just contrasting the current situation to what I know about WWII.  Everyone 
seemed to get behind the war effort irrespective of politics.
I came of age during Vietnam.  So we had the polar opposite of that in those 
years.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:24 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone thinks 
you're talking about someone else but not them.  It's everyone and it always 
will be.

Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality of "what 
will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want voters to think I'm 
doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be re-elected.  We all, in 
theory, want our politicians to do the right thing and tell the truth about it, 
but in reality they're going to do what they think their voters want, or if 
they can't then they'll try to tell them what they want to hear.  We can't 
expect anything other than politics from politicians.  When someone gets a job 
by winning a popularity contest they're going to be somewhat narcissistic to 
begin with.  The ones who keep the job the longest are the ones with the most 
narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the greatest skill at deflecting, 
equivocating, and outright BS'ing.

I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons or 
parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in general.  The 
problem of course is that every other method is worse.

On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:

  If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan politics 
before they even left the spacecraft.  

  If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a catch, 
PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

  Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands 
from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.

  On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes  
wrote:

This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths 
related to usual activities.

On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  
wrote:

  I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this 
time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall, even 
with the virus.

  Jeff Broadwick 
  CTIconnect

  312-205-2519 Office
  574-220-7826 Cell
  jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen 
deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  
All in a few short months.  
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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

2020-04-20 Thread Josh Luthman

Why were you not?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM  wrote:

> We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying
> myself...
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>
> It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did
> payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of
> the account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm
> told, should suffice.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:
>
>> Lewis,
>> Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the loan
>> proceeds for approved uses?
>> Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general checking
>> account.
>> I think we put them in a separate savings account.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>>
>> $10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between all
>> the companies.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
>>> --
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

2020-04-20 Thread castarritt .

That sounds like a recipe for community spread of the
Ragingthunderflu-April-2020, May-2020, June-2020...


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:18 AM  wrote:

> Harem immunity.
>
> *From:* castarritt .
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:09 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
> I said herd immunity, but brood immunity does sound cooler.
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:07 AM Adam Moffett  wrote:
>
>> Why are we mooing?
>>
>> Can I cluck like a chicken instead?
>>
>>
>> On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Moo
>>
>> *From:* castarritt .
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>
>> It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective
>> treatment methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in an
>> attempt to cause a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the healthcare
>> industry too much, but eventually cause enough people to catch the virus
>> that we develop herd immunity.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:
>>
>>> I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without
>>> China-level lock-downs or vaccines.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Midwest Internet Exchange 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The Brothers WISP 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>> --
>>> *From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
>>> *Sent: *Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>>
>>> Unless we relax and get a double bump.
>>>
>>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>>
>>> I look at the curve and say we are half over.
>>>
>>> *From:* Ken Hohhof
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
>>> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>>
>>>
>>> That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that
>>> curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by
>>> the early hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still
>>> only slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in
>>> refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It
>>> hasn’t even begun to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals,
>>> that will be the long tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up
>>> and brought a big second wave.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying,
>>> dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their
>>> families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t
>>> going to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term,
>>> even if they don’t get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out,
>>> this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s
>>> lives at risk.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
>>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [image: image]
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

In Europe, Germany is being held up as doing the right things.  As opposed to 
Italy, Spain, France.  What I didn’t realize was that Angela Merkel was a 
former scientist.  Nerds rule!  Fauci for President!

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/world/europe/with-broad-random-tests-for-antibodies-germany-seeks-path-out-of-lockdown.html

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Adam Moffett
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:24 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

 

The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone thinks 
you're talking about someone else but not them.  It's everyone and it always 
will be.

Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality of "what 
will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want voters to think I'm 
doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be re-elected.  We all, in 
theory, want our politicians to do the right thing and tell the truth about it, 
but in reality they're going to do what they think their voters want, or if 
they can't then they'll try to tell them what they want to hear.  We can't 
expect anything other than politics from politicians.  When someone gets a job 
by winning a popularity contest they're going to be somewhat narcissistic to 
begin with.  The ones who keep the job the longest are the ones with the most 
narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the greatest skill at deflecting, 
equivocating, and outright BS'ing.

I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons or 
parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in general.  The 
problem of course is that every other method is worse.

 

On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:

 

If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan politics 
before they even left the spacecraft.  

 

If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a catch, 
PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.  

 

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

 

Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands from 
stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.

 

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:

This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths related 
to usual activities.


On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists mailto:jeffl...@att.net> > wrote:

I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this time.  
I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall, even with 
the virus.

Jeff Broadwick 

CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office

574-220-7826 Cell

jbroadw...@cticonnect.com  





On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

 

Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen deaths in 
the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  All in a few 
short months.  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I think Rita Wilson and Tom Hanks got the malaria drug.  They don’t know if it 
worked but they felt better after getting it.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:33 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

What are the treatments that are now working?  I try to be optimistic about 
antivirals and convalescent plasma, but right now they mainly have ventilators, 
which honestly aren’t very successful if 70-80% of the people die.  They keep 
doing that because it’s the textbook therapy for respiratory distress, but it 
ain’t working.  Even if it were working, ventilators are not a treatment, they 
don’t reverse the disease, they are just a measure to get you oxygen while your 
body hopefully fights the infection.  And then you have the people experiencing 
kidney failure and needing dialysis, they’re not sure if the damage is 
permanent.

I hope you’re right that the medical community has learned how to treat it, but 
I haven’t heard the evidence for that.

Regarding a vaccine, one interesting piece of information I read was that even 
if they develop a successful and safe vaccine (many challenges including the 
sensitization problem), then they have to scale up vaccine production.  Right 
now most vaccines are just for each new wave of schoolchildren, this would have 
to be for the entire population.  And not in chicken eggs, it would have to be 
in big vats.  And the interesting part is they could repurpose fermentation 
tanks used for things like brewing beer.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:20 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Time will tell based on whether it actually starts declining in a meaningful 
way, or whether we're going to bump along for a bit. Remember, the goal was to 
flatten the curve; it wasn't necessarily going to reduce the number of 
infections. I get the impression that the medical community has learned a lot 
about how to actually treat it. 

Let's see where we are a week from today (April 27). If we are over 1 million 
infections, this may be going a while yet. If it is under 1 million, I would be 
more encouraged.

bp On 4/20/2020 8:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


  
  
Instead of ventilators, they are just giving oxygen in a couple
  of different ways. There was an acronym that was mentioned in one
  of the articles I read, but I can't recall what it was except it
  had an "O" in it (for oxygen). The big issue with dialysis is that
  the victims are experiencing above-normal levels of blood
  clotting. This is messing with their kidneys and also clogging the
  filters on the dialysis machines.
I'm OK with re-purposing vaccine vats to produce beer.


bp



On 4/20/2020 9:33 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
What are the treatments that are now
  working?  I try to be optimistic about antivirals and
  convalescent plasma, but right now they mainly have
  ventilators, which honestly aren’t very successful if 70-80%
  of the people die.  They keep doing that because it’s the
  textbook therapy for respiratory distress, but it ain’t
  working.  Even if it were working, ventilators are not a
  treatment, they don’t reverse the disease, they are just a
  measure to get you oxygen while your body hopefully fights the
  infection.  And then you have the people experiencing kidney
  failure and needing dialysis, they’re not sure if the damage
  is permanent.
 
I hope you’re right that the medical
  community has learned how to treat it, but I haven’t heard the
  evidence for that.
 
Regarding a vaccine, one interesting piece
  of information I read was that even if they develop a
  successful and safe vaccine (many challenges including the
  sensitization problem), then they have to scale up vaccine
  production.  Right now most vaccines are just for each new
  wave of schoolchildren, this would have to be for the entire
  population.  And not in chicken eggs, it would have to be in
  big vats.  And the interesting part is they could repurpose
  fermentation tanks used for things like brewing beer.
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Bill
  Prince
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:20 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and
  optimism
  

 
Time will tell based on whether it actually starts declining
  in a meaningful way, or whether we're going to bump along for
  a bit. Remember, the goal was to flatten the curve; it wasn't
  necessarily going to reduce the number of infections. I get
  the impression that the medical community has learned a lot
  about how to actually treat it. 
Let's see where we are a week from today (April 27). If we
  are over 1 million infections, this may be going a while yet.
  If it is under 1 million, I would be more encouraged.
bp

 

  On 4/20/2020 8:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
wrote:


  

  
Looks a bit
Gaussian to me.  I hope...
  
  
 
  
  

  

  
  



  
  
  

  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/british-bakers-reintroduce-world-war-ii-bread-coronavirus-fight-n1180536

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:38 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Just contrasting the current situation to what I know about WWII.  Everyone 
seemed to get behind the war effort irrespective of politics.

I came of age during Vietnam.  So we had the polar opposite of that in those 
years.  

From: Adam Moffett 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:24 AM

To: af@af.afmug.com   

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone thinks 
you're talking about someone else but not them.  It's everyone and it always 
will be.

Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality of "what 
will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want voters to think I'm 
doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be re-elected.  We all, in 
theory, want our politicians to do the right thing and tell the truth about it, 
but in reality they're going to do what they think their voters want, or if 
they can't then they'll try to tell them what they want to hear.  We can't 
expect anything other than politics from politicians.  When someone gets a job 
by winning a popularity contest they're going to be somewhat narcissistic to 
begin with.  The ones who keep the job the longest are the ones with the most 
narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the greatest skill at deflecting, 
equivocating, and outright BS'ing.

I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons or 
parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in general.  The 
problem of course is that every other method is worse.

On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:

If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan politics 
before they even left the spacecraft.  

If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a catch, 
PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.  

From: Jaime Solorza 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands from 
stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes mailto:mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> > wrote:

This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths related 
to usual activities.

On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists mailto:jeffl...@att.net> > wrote:

I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this time.  
I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall, even with 
the virus.

Jeff Broadwick 

CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office

574-220-7826 Cell

jbroadw...@cticonnect.com  

On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen deaths in 
the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  All in a few 
short months.  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can take a 
repayment on notes payable if I want money without any tax implication.  Or I 
can take a directors fee without FICA if I want to take money.  But what in the 
hell am I going to do with a bunch of money in my checking account?  I can buy 
more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer drill setup 
for my directional drills.  

Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210 with 
known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more fun.  
Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used to sail on the 
Great Salt Lake.  

I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting for anything.  
Other than visits from kids and grandkids.  

In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.
Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Why were you not?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM  wrote:

  We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying 
myself...

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

  It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did 
payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of the 
account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm told, 
should suffice.


  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373


  On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:

Lewis,
Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the loan 
proceeds for approved uses?
Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general checking 
account.  
I think we put them in a separate savings account.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

$10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between all 
the companies. 

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:

  Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

ECMO?

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:41 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Instead of ventilators, they are just giving oxygen in a couple of different
ways. There was an acronym that was mentioned in one of the articles I read,
but I can't recall what it was except it had an "O" in it (for oxygen). The
big issue with dialysis is that the victims are experiencing above-normal
levels of blood clotting. This is messing with their kidneys and also
clogging the filters on the dialysis machines.

I'm OK with re-purposing vaccine vats to produce beer.

bp

On 4/20/2020 9:33 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

What are the treatments that are now working?  I try to be optimistic about
antivirals and convalescent plasma, but right now they mainly have
ventilators, which honestly aren't very successful if 70-80% of the people
die.  They keep doing that because it's the textbook therapy for respiratory
distress, but it ain't working.  Even if it were working, ventilators are
not a treatment, they don't reverse the disease, they are just a measure to
get you oxygen while your body hopefully fights the infection.  And then you
have the people experiencing kidney failure and needing dialysis, they're
not sure if the damage is permanent.

I hope you're right that the medical community has learned how to treat it,
but I haven't heard the evidence for that.

Regarding a vaccine, one interesting piece of information I read was that
even if they develop a successful and safe vaccine (many challenges
including the sensitization problem), then they have to scale up vaccine
production.  Right now most vaccines are just for each new wave of
schoolchildren, this would have to be for the entire population.  And not in
chicken eggs, it would have to be in big vats.  And the interesting part is
they could repurpose fermentation tanks used for things like brewing beer.

From: AF    On
Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:20 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Time will tell based on whether it actually starts declining in a meaningful
way, or whether we're going to bump along for a bit. Remember, the goal was
to flatten the curve; it wasn't necessarily going to reduce the number of
infections. I get the impression that the medical community has learned a
lot about how to actually treat it. 

Let's see where we are a week from today (April 27). If we are over 1
million infections, this may be going a while yet. If it is under 1 million,
I would be more encouraged.

bp

On 4/20/2020 8:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

I wish fauci would be able to handle this from a completely sterile
scientific standpoint. But the media would not approve of what would be
required. I dont think I'd care for it either. Listen to the scientists
sounds pretty, until you actually listen to them. The best way to eliminate
almost anything is to burn it out


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 11:39 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> In Europe, Germany is being held up as doing the right things.  As opposed
> to Italy, Spain, France.  What I didn’t realize was that Angela Merkel was
> a former scientist.  Nerds rule!  Fauci for President!
>
>
>
>
> https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/18/world/europe/with-broad-random-tests-for-antibodies-germany-seeks-path-out-of-lockdown.html
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 11:24 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
>
>
>
> The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone
> thinks you're talking about someone else but not them.  It's everyone and
> it always will be.
>
> Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality of
> "what will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want voters to
> think I'm doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be re-elected.  We
> all, in theory, want our politicians to do the right thing and tell the
> truth about it, but in reality they're going to do what they think their
> voters want, or if they can't then they'll try to tell them what they want
> to hear.  We can't expect anything other than politics from politicians.
> When someone gets a job by winning a popularity contest they're going to be
> somewhat narcissistic to begin with.  The ones who keep the job the longest
> are the ones with the most narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the
> greatest skill at deflecting, equivocating, and outright BS'ing.
>
> I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons or
> parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in general.
> The problem of course is that every other method is worse.
>
>
>
> On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:
>
>
>
> If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan
> politics before they even left the spacecraft.
>
>
>
> If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a
> catch, PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.
>
>
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
>
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM
>
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
>
>
>
> Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands
> from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
> This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths
> related to usual activities.
>
>
> On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
> wrote:
>
> I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this
> time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall,
> even with the virus.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
>
> CTIconnect
>
> 312-205-2519 Office
>
> 574-220-7826 Cell
>
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
>
>
> On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> 
>
> Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen deaths
> in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  All
> in a few short months.
>
> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus


All the news about WW2 came from the government.

Perhaps it would have gone differently if you had a bunch of bobble 
heads on TV giving a play by play and giving their personal commentary.


In Vietnam they embedded reporters with the troops, and that 
dramatically affected how the war was seen, but even then the news cycle 
was days and weeks long.  There was time to produce a more clear eyed 
picture before something was printed.


Now every jabroni on Twitter counts as a news source. This is a related 
problem to the politician problem.  Rumor, conjecture, and inference are 
co-mingled with the facts and treated with the same weight.  With enough 
circular references they /become/ facts.  Multiple sets of facts exist 
which can't all be true, but nobody has the time or expertise to 
thoroughly check everything. So we're forced to go about our day doing 
our jobs and simply choosing which expert testimony to believe. Then the 
politician not only has to consider what to say to get elected, but has 
to choose which set of shared facts his voters will believe more.


I think it's likely that none of us is working from a perfect set of 
facts at this point.  Our politicians included.



On 4/20/2020 12:37 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Just contrasting the current situation to what I know about WWII.  
Everyone seemed to get behind the war effort irrespective of politics.
I came of age during Vietnam.  So we had the polar opposite of that in 
those years.

*From:* Adam Moffett
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:24 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone 
thinks you're talking about someone else but not them.  It's everyone 
and it always will be.


Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality 
of "what will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want 
voters to think I'm doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be 
re-elected.  We all, in theory, want our politicians to do the right 
thing and tell the truth about it, but in reality they're going to do 
what they think their voters want, or if they can't then they'll try 
to tell them what they want to hear.  We can't expect anything other 
than politics from politicians.  When someone gets a job by winning a 
popularity contest they're going to be somewhat narcissistic to begin 
with.  The ones who keep the job the longest are the ones with the 
most narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the greatest skill 
at deflecting, equivocating, and outright BS'ing.


I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons 
or parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in 
general.  The problem of course is that every other method is worse.


On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:
If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan 
politics before they even left the spacecraft.
If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a 
catch, PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.

*From:* Jaime Solorza
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs 
hands from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:


This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other
deaths related to usual activities.

On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists
 wrote:


I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US
during this time.  I suspect that they will be down from their
usual levels, overall, even with the virus.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com


On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:


Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US
servicemen deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass
Vietnam before we are done.  All in a few short months.
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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Time to book that trip to Mars.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:46 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can take a 
repayment on notes payable if I want money without any tax implication.  Or I 
can take a directors fee without FICA if I want to take money.  But what in the 
hell am I going to do with a bunch of money in my checking account?  I can buy 
more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer drill setup 
for my directional drills.  

Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210 with 
known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more fun.  

Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used to sail on the 
Great Salt Lake.  

I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting for anything.  

Other than visits from kids and grandkids.  

In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.

Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Why were you not?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying myself...

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did 
payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of the 
account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm told, 
should suffice.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

Lewis,

Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the loan 
proceeds for approved uses?

Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general checking 
account.  

I think we put them in a separate savings account.  

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

$10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between all the 
companies. 

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

I had to look it up:
ja·bro·ni
/jəˈbrōnē/
noun INFORMAL•US
  1.. a foolish or contemptible person.
  "get it together, you jabronis"

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:01 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

All the news about WW2 came from the government. 

Perhaps it would have gone differently if you had a bunch of bobble heads on TV 
giving a play by play and giving their personal commentary.

In Vietnam they embedded reporters with the troops, and that dramatically 
affected how the war was seen, but even then the news cycle was days and weeks 
long.  There was time to produce a more clear eyed picture before something was 
printed.   

Now every jabroni on Twitter counts as a news source. This is a related problem 
to the politician problem.  Rumor, conjecture, and inference are co-mingled 
with the facts and treated with the same weight.  With enough circular 
references they become facts.  Multiple sets of facts exist which can't all be 
true, but nobody has the time or expertise to thoroughly check everything.  So 
we're forced to go about our day doing our jobs and simply choosing which 
expert testimony to believe. Then the politician not only has to consider what 
to say to get elected, but has to choose which set of shared facts his voters 
will believe more.

I think it's likely that none of us is working from a perfect set of facts at 
this point.  Our politicians included.

On 4/20/2020 12:37 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Just contrasting the current situation to what I know about WWII.  Everyone 
seemed to get behind the war effort irrespective of politics.
  I came of age during Vietnam.  So we had the polar opposite of that in those 
years.  

  From: Adam Moffett 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:24 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

  The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone thinks 
you're talking about someone else but not them.  It's everyone and it always 
will be.

  Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality of 
"what will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want voters to think 
I'm doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be re-elected.  We all, in 
theory, want our politicians to do the right thing and tell the truth about it, 
but in reality they're going to do what they think their voters want, or if 
they can't then they'll try to tell them what they want to hear.  We can't 
expect anything other than politics from politicians.  When someone gets a job 
by winning a popularity contest they're going to be somewhat narcissistic to 
begin with.  The ones who keep the job the longest are the ones with the most 
narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the greatest skill at deflecting, 
equivocating, and outright BS'ing.

  I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons or 
parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in general.  The 
problem of course is that every other method is worse.

  On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:

If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan politics 
before they even left the spacecraft.  

If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a catch, 
PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands 
from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths 
related to usual activities.

  On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  
wrote:

I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during 
this time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall, 
even with the virus.

Jeff Broadwick 
CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

  On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen 
deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  
All in a few short months.  
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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Not into growing potatoes in poop.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:02 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Time to book that trip to Mars.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:46 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can take a 
repayment on notes payable if I want money without any tax implication.  Or I 
can take a directors fee without FICA if I want to take money.  But what in the 
hell am I going to do with a bunch of money in my checking account?  I can buy 
more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer drill setup 
for my directional drills.  

Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210 with 
known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more fun.  

Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used to sail on the 
Great Salt Lake.  

I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting for anything.  

Other than visits from kids and grandkids.  

In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.

Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Why were you not?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM  wrote:

  We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying 
myself...

  From: Josh Luthman 

  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

  It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did 
payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of the 
account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm told, 
should suffice.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:

Lewis,

Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the loan 
proceeds for approved uses?

Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general checking 
account.  

I think we put them in a separate savings account.  

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

$10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between all 
the companies. 

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:

  Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


  
  
That was it.

bp



On 4/20/2020 9:46 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
ECMO?
 
 

  
From: AF
   On Behalf Of Bill
  Prince
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:41 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and
  optimism
  

 
Instead of ventilators, they are just giving oxygen in a
  couple of different ways. There was an acronym that was
  mentioned in one of the articles I read, but I can't recall
  what it was except it had an "O" in it (for oxygen). The big
  issue with dialysis is that the victims are experiencing
  above-normal levels of blood clotting. This is messing with
  their kidneys and also clogging the filters on the dialysis
  machines.
I'm OK with re-purposing vaccine vats to produce beer.
 
bp

 

  On 4/20/2020 9:33 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  What are the treatments that are now
working?  I try to be optimistic about antivirals and
convalescent plasma, but right now they mainly have
ventilators, which honestly aren’t very successful if 70-80%
of the people die.  They keep doing that because it’s the
textbook therapy for respiratory distress, but it ain’t
working.  Even if it were working, ventilators are not a
treatment, they don’t reverse the disease, they are just a
measure to get you oxygen while your body hopefully fights
the infection.  And then you have the people experiencing
kidney failure and needing dialysis, they’re not sure if the
damage is permanent.
   
  I hope you’re right that the medical
community has learned how to treat it, but I haven’t heard
the evidence for that.
   
  Regarding a vaccine, one interesting
piece of information I read was that even if they develop a
successful and safe vaccine (many challenges including the
sensitization problem), then they have to scale up vaccine
production.  Right now most vaccines are just for each new
wave of schoolchildren, this would have to be for the entire
population.  And not in chicken eggs, it would have to be in
big vats.  And the interesting part is they could repurpose
fermentation tanks used for things like brewing beer.
   
   
  

  From: AF 
On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:20 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and
optimism

  
   
  Time will tell based on whether it actually starts
declining in a meaningful way, or whether we're going to
bump along for a bit. Remember, the goal was to flatten the
curve; it wasn't necessarily going to reduce the number of
infections. I get the impression that the medical community
has learned a lot about how to actually treat it. 
  Let's see where we are a week from today (April 27). If we
are over 1 million infections, this may be going a while
yet. If it is under 1 million, I would be more encouraged.
  bp
  
   
  
On 4/20/2020 8:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:
  
  

  

  Looks a bit
  Gaussian to me.  I hope...


   


  

  


  
  
  
  
  



  
  
  

  

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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan


  
  
That's only necessary if you have a big wind storm that forces
  you to abandon the planet, and according to NdGT, that ain't gonna
  happen.


bp



On 4/20/2020 10:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  

  Not into growing potatoes in poop.  
  

   
  
From: Ken
Hohhof 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:02 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group' 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
  

 
  
  

  Time to book that trip to Mars.
   
  

  From: AF
 On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:46 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

  
   
  

  
dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself
when I don’t need to?   I can take a repayment
on notes payable if I want money without any tax
implication.  Or I can take a directors fee
without FICA if I want to take money.  But what
in the hell am I going to do with a bunch of
money in my checking account?  I can buy more
TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon
pneumatic hammer drill setup for my directional
drills.  
  
  
 
  
  
Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla
or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210 with known
ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more
fun.  
  
  
Could do a sailboat but I would
probably never use it.   I used to sail on the
Great Salt Lake.  
  
  
 
  
  
I am just fortunate to be
semi-retired and not really wanting for
anything.  
  
  
Other than visits from kids and
grandkids.  
  
  
 
  
  
In other words “I have sufficient
for my needs”.
  
  
Maybe a water jet or a CNC
laser...
  
  

  
 
  
  

  From: Josh Luthman 


  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM


  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 


  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

  


   

  
  

  Why were you not?
  
  

  

   

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
  

  
  
 
  


   


  
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at
11:19 AM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  
We are still going to keep it
sequestered.  I should

Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Maybe there’ll be a robot bartender, and you can find Jennifer Lawrence’s pod 
and awaken her.  Oh wait, wrong movie.

 

I was actually thinking of Elon Musk, isn’t he going to send a bunch of people 
on one-way trips to Mars?  Tell him you’re diabetic and he needs to stock 
something low-carb to grow in the poop.

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:10 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

 

That's only necessary if you have a big wind storm that forces you to abandon 
the planet, and according to NdGT, that ain't gonna happen.

 

bp

 

On 4/20/2020 10:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Not into growing potatoes in poop.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:02 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

 

Time to book that trip to Mars.

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:46 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group   
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

 

dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can take a 
repayment on notes payable if I want money without any tax implication.  Or I 
can take a directors fee without FICA if I want to take money.  But what in the 
hell am I going to do with a bunch of money in my checking account?  I can buy 
more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer drill setup 
for my directional drills.  

 

Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210 with 
known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more fun.  

Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used to sail on the 
Great Salt Lake.  

 

I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting for anything.  

Other than visits from kids and grandkids.  

 

In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.

Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

 

Why were you not?


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying myself...

 

From: Josh Luthman 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

 

It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did 
payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of the 
account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm told, 
should suffice.


 

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

 

 

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > 
wrote:

Lewis,

Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the loan 
proceeds for approved uses?

Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general checking 
account.  

I think we put them in a separate savings account.  

 

From: Lewis Bergman 

Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

 

$10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between all the 
companies. 

 

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> > wrote:

Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

2020-04-20 Thread Lewis Bergman

I doubt this attachment will make it through but here is a checklist from
the SBA for PPP forgiveness.
Just in case the attachment is stripped, here it is below:
  This information will be needed to present to the bank or SBA for Loan
Forgiveness:

   1. Copies of payroll tax reports file with the IRS (including Forms 941,
   940, state income and unemployment tax filing reports) for the the 8 week
   period following the original of the loan.
   2. Copies of payroll reports for each pay period for the 8 week period
   following the origination of the loan. Gross wages including PTO (which
   might include vacation, sick, and other PTO) should be reflected.
   3. Documentation reflecting the health insurance premiums paid by the
   company under a group health plan including owners of the company for the 8
   week period following the origination of the loan should be provided.
   Copies of the monthly invoices should suffice.
   4. Documentation of all retirement plan funding by the employer for the
   8 weeks following the origination of loan should be sufficent. Copies of
   workpapers, schedules and remittances to the retirement plan administrator
   should be available.
   5. Copies of all lease agreements for real estate and tangible personal
   property should be presented along with proof of payment during the 8 week
   period followiing the loan origination date.
   6. Copies of all statement of interest paid on debt obligations incurred
   prior to February 15, 2020 indicating payment amounts and proof of payment
   for the 8 week period following the loan origination date.
   7. Copies of cancelled checks, statements or other evidence of utilities
   paid during the "covered period" for the 8 week period following the loan
   origination date.

I hope that's right. The copy/paste was mangled so I had to reconstruct it.
Hopefully, the attached PDF makers it.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:03 AM Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did
> payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of
> the account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm
> told, should suffice.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:
>
>> Lewis,
>> Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the loan
>> proceeds for approved uses?
>> Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general checking
>> account.
>> I think we put them in a separate savings account.
>>
>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>>
>> $10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between all
>> the companies.
>>
>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
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Financial Data Needed for PPP Loan Forgiveness - signature.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

I always thought jabroni was a derogatory term for an italian. Learn
something new every day

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 12:06 PM  wrote:

> I had to look it up:
> ja·bro·ni
> /jəˈbrōnē/
> *noun*
> INFORMAL•US
>
>1. a foolish or contemptible person.
>"get it together, you jabronis"
>
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 11:01 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
>
>
> All the news about WW2 came from the government.
>
> Perhaps it would have gone differently if you had a bunch of bobble heads
> on TV giving a play by play and giving their personal commentary.
>
> In Vietnam they embedded reporters with the troops, and that dramatically
> affected how the war was seen, but even then the news cycle was days and
> weeks long.  There was time to produce a more clear eyed picture before
> something was printed.
>
> Now every jabroni on Twitter counts as a news source. This is a related
> problem to the politician problem.  Rumor, conjecture, and inference are
> co-mingled with the facts and treated with the same weight.  With enough
> circular references they *become* facts.  Multiple sets of facts exist
> which can't all be true, but nobody has the time or expertise to thoroughly
> check everything.  So we're forced to go about our day doing our jobs and
> simply choosing which expert testimony to believe. Then the politician not
> only has to consider what to say to get elected, but has to choose which
> set of shared facts his voters will believe more.
>
> I think it's likely that none of us is working from a perfect set of facts
> at this point.  Our politicians included.
>
>
> On 4/20/2020 12:37 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Just contrasting the current situation to what I know about WWII.
> Everyone seemed to get behind the war effort irrespective of politics.
> I came of age during Vietnam.  So we had the polar opposite of that in
> those years.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:24 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
>
>
> The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone
> thinks you're talking about someone else but not them.  It's everyone and
> it always will be.
>
> Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality of
> "what will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want voters to
> think I'm doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be re-elected.  We
> all, in theory, want our politicians to do the right thing and tell the
> truth about it, but in reality they're going to do what they think their
> voters want, or if they can't then they'll try to tell them what they want
> to hear.  We can't expect anything other than politics from politicians.
> When someone gets a job by winning a popularity contest they're going to be
> somewhat narcissistic to begin with.  The ones who keep the job the longest
> are the ones with the most narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the
> greatest skill at deflecting, equivocating, and outright BS'ing.
>
> I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons or
> parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in general.
> The problem of course is that every other method is worse.
>
>
> On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:
>
> If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan
> politics before they even left the spacecraft.
>
> If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a
> catch, PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
>
> Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands
> from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths
>> related to usual activities.
>>
>> On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this
>> time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall,
>> even with the virus.
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> CTIconnect
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen
>> deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are
>> done.  All in a few short months.
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>

Re: [AFMUG] customers with repeat DDoS attacks

Buzz Aldrin thumping that jerkoff is probably one of the greatest american
moments in my life. Guys that strapped themselves to missiles so they could
ride around in rocket powered coffins to be able to jump around on space
rocks wearing a fishbowl arent really the onesnid consider talking smack
to, cause they may choose to remind one that they had to account some extra
fuel to get those solid brass balls lifted up into the sky

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 9:03 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> People think they are blameless, they are just exercising their right to
> be an a**hole online.  Then they do the equivalent of killing John Wick’s
> puppy.  And their online activity has repercussions IRL.
>
>
>
> Or maybe a better analogy would be my favorite YouTube clip of the moon
> landing denier harassing Buzz Aldrin and getting punched.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Steve Jones
> *Sent:* Sunday, April 19, 2020 11:57 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] customers with repeat DDoS attacks
>
>
>
> You could put a waivable 30 day suspension in your TOS, for first
> infraction with a non waivable 30 day suspension for a second within 36
> months and 1500 dollar reconnect fee.
>
> The first one might have simply been beating some script kiddy in a
> fornite match. The second needs to hurt.
>
>
>
> 1500 is relatively inexpensive considering the cost of mitigation to you
> as well as the global cost to your other customers in lost productivity.
>
>
>
> Theyll file an fcc complaint, it will go nowhere, theyll hit the bbb, it
> will go nowhere, theyll bad review you, it will be a short hit, but better
> than constant service interruptions for your other customers.
>
>
>
> Hopefully they terminate service during the suspension period
>
>
>
> We got a heads up on one of these guys, thank god. He was NLOS before we
> even had his paperwork and luckily he was actual NLOS. I dont know if he
> ever found a provider, dont care, F that guy
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020, 10:51 PM Seth Mattinen  wrote:
>
> On 4/19/20 4:43 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> > Hadn't thought of that, is it feasible?
>
>
> If it's a console you could block ranges XBL or PSN are using. Blocking
> PC gaming might be harder. If you want to put the effort into either vs.
> the easier option of telling the customer they need to find a new ISP.
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Do you remember the Beverly hillbillies episode where the greedy banker was
working to get grannies cure for the common cold? I'm pretty sure at the
end of the day, it will be grannies cure

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 11:34 AM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> What are the treatments that are now working?  I try to be optimistic
> about antivirals and convalescent plasma, but right now they mainly have
> ventilators, which honestly aren’t very successful if 70-80% of the people
> die.  They keep doing that because it’s the textbook therapy for
> respiratory distress, but it ain’t working.  Even if it were working,
> ventilators are not a treatment, they don’t reverse the disease, they are
> just a measure to get you oxygen while your body hopefully fights the
> infection.  And then you have the people experiencing kidney failure and
> needing dialysis, they’re not sure if the damage is permanent.
>
>
>
> I hope you’re right that the medical community has learned how to treat
> it, but I haven’t heard the evidence for that.
>
>
>
> Regarding a vaccine, one interesting piece of information I read was that
> even if they develop a successful and safe vaccine (many challenges
> including the sensitization problem), then they have to scale up vaccine
> production.  Right now most vaccines are just for each new wave of
> schoolchildren, this would have to be for the entire population.  And not
> in chicken eggs, it would have to be in big vats.  And the interesting part
> is they could repurpose fermentation tanks used for things like brewing
> beer.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 11:20 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
>
>
> Time will tell based on whether it actually starts declining in a
> meaningful way, or whether we're going to bump along for a bit. Remember,
> the goal was to flatten the curve; it wasn't necessarily going to reduce
> the number of infections. I get the impression that the medical community
> has learned a lot about how to actually treat it.
>
> Let's see where we are a week from today (April 27). If we are over 1
> million infections, this may be going a while yet. If it is under 1
> million, I would be more encouraged.
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 4/20/2020 8:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...
>
>
>
> [image: image]
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Thanks

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:20 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

I doubt this attachment will make it through but here is a checklist from the 
SBA for PPP forgiveness.  
Just in case the attachment is stripped, here it is below:
  This information will be needed to present to the bank or SBA for Loan 
Forgiveness: 
  1.. Copies of payroll tax reports file with the IRS (including Forms 941, 
940, state income and unemployment tax filing reports) for the the 8 week 
period following the original of the loan.  
  2.. Copies of payroll reports for each pay period for the 8 week period 
following the origination of the loan. Gross wages including PTO (which might 
include vacation, sick, and other PTO) should be reflected.  
  3.. Documentation reflecting the health insurance premiums paid by the 
company under a group health plan including owners of the company for the 8 
week period following the origination of the loan should be provided. Copies of 
the monthly invoices should suffice.  
  4.. Documentation of all retirement plan funding by the employer for the 8 
weeks following the origination of loan should be sufficent. Copies of 
workpapers, schedules and remittances to the retirement plan administrator 
should be available.  
  5.. Copies of all lease agreements for real estate and tangible personal 
property should be presented along with proof of payment during the 8 week 
period followiing the loan origination date.  
  6.. Copies of all statement of interest paid on debt obligations incurred 
prior to February 15, 2020 indicating payment amounts and proof of payment for 
the 8 week period following the loan origination date.  
  7.. Copies of cancelled checks, statements or other evidence of utilities 
paid during the "covered period" for the 8 week period following the loan 
origination date.   
I hope that's right. The copy/paste was mangled so I had to reconstruct it. 
Hopefully, the attached PDF makers it.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:03 AM Josh Luthman  
wrote:

  It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did 
payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of the 
account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm told, 
should suffice.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:

Lewis,
Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the loan 
proceeds for approved uses?
Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general checking 
account.  
I think we put them in a separate savings account.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

$10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between all 
the companies. 

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:

  Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

2020-04-20 Thread dave

It mutating and soon im sure the mutation could have the same affect as 
the walking dead.



On 4/20/20 11:08 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


I think fall is overly optimistic. That would barely be enough to get 
through early testing. Early 2021 is my bet for the earliest 
availability of an actual vaccine.



bp


On 4/20/2020 9:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Hopefully we will have a vaccine by fall.  Hopefully they will have 
sorted out what treatments work by July. Hopefully lotsa good testing 
by June.
But baseball seems to be totally f*cked.  Hopefully not college 
football too...

*From:* Mike Hammett
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:49 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without 
China-level lock-downs or vaccines.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 





*From: *ch...@wbmfg.com
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
*Sent: *Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Unless we relax and get a double bump.
*From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
I look at the curve and say we are half over.
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at 
that curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably 
dominated by the early hit densely populated areas like New York, 
where they are still only slightly off the peak death rate and are 
still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the 
nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep over the 
less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave.


Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, 
dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting 
their families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, 
we aren’t going to have any doctors and nurses. Who would do that job 
long term, even if they don’t get sick and die?  As various people 
have pointed out, this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t asked 
to put their family’s lives at risk.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

image


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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

2020-04-20 Thread Josh Luthman

I thought it was bad to have a business and not pay the owners "a
reasonable salary".

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:46 PM  wrote:

> dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can take a
> repayment on notes payable if I want money without any tax implication.  Or
> I can take a directors fee without FICA if I want to take money.  But what
> in the hell am I going to do with a bunch of money in my checking account?
> I can buy more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer
> drill setup for my directional drills.
>
> Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210
> with known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more fun.
> Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used to sail on
> the Great Salt Lake.
>
> I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting for
> anything.
> Other than visits from kids and grandkids.
>
> In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.
> Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>
> Why were you not?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM  wrote:
>
>> We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying
>> myself...
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>>
>> It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did
>> payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of
>> the account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm
>> told, should suffice.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> Lewis,
>>> Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the
>>> loan proceeds for approved uses?
>>> Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general
>>> checking account.
>>> I think we put them in a separate savings account.
>>>
>>> *From:* Lewis Bergman
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>>>
>>> $10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between
>>> all the companies.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:
>>>
 Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
 --
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 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Maybe each mutation will make the virus less deadly.  Ever see the movie 
Multiplicity?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplicity_(film)

 

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of dave
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:50 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

 

It mutating and soon im sure the mutation could have the same affect as the 
walking dead. 




On 4/20/20 11:08 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

I think fall is overly optimistic. That would barely be enough to get through 
early testing. Early 2021 is my bet for the earliest availability of an actual 
vaccine.

 

bp

 

On 4/20/2020 9:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Hopefully we will have a vaccine by fall.  Hopefully they will have sorted out 
what treatments work by July.  Hopefully lotsa good testing by June.

But baseball seems to be totally f*cked.  Hopefully not college football too...

 

From: Mike Hammett 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:49 AM

To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

 

I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without China-level 
lock-downs or vaccines.



-
Mike Hammett
  Intelligent Computing Solutions
   
  
  
 
  Midwest Internet Exchange
   
  
 
  The Brothers WISP
   
 





  _  


From: ch...@wbmfg.com  
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"   

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Unless we relax and get a double bump.  

 

From: ch...@wbmfg.com   

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

 

I look at the curve and say we are half over.  

 

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

 

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that curve 
and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by the early 
hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still only slightly 
off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at 
hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep 
over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave.

 

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, dealing 
with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their families.  
If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going to have 
any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, even if they don’t 
get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out, this may be a war, but 
even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at risk.

 

 

From: AF    On Behalf 
Of ch...@wbmfg.com  
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

 

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

 




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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Corporation
I am a minority shareholder.  
My wife is the majority shareholder.  But you still don’t have to pay 
shareholders anything.  
If they are on the board of directors they can earn a directors fee.  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

I thought it was bad to have a business and not pay the owners "a reasonable 
salary".

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:46 PM  wrote:

  dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can take a 
repayment on notes payable if I want money without any tax implication.  Or I 
can take a directors fee without FICA if I want to take money.  But what in the 
hell am I going to do with a bunch of money in my checking account?  I can buy 
more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer drill setup 
for my directional drills.  

  Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210 with 
known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more fun.  
  Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used to sail on 
the Great Salt Lake.  

  I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting for anything.  
  Other than visits from kids and grandkids.  

  In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.
  Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

  Why were you not?

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM  wrote:

We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying 
myself...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did 
payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of the 
account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm told, 
should suffice.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:

  Lewis,
  Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the loan 
proceeds for approved uses?
  Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general checking 
account.  
  I think we put them in a separate savings account.  

  From: Lewis Bergman 
  Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

  $10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between all 
the companies. 

  On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:

Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

2020-04-20 Thread James Howard

You could record that from my back deck most nights of the week.  Thankfully 
they don’t seem to come close to our buildings for some reason.  My neighbor 
said he got a pic of 12 of them eating an adult deer about half way down his 
driveway a couple of years ago.  We never knew if the deer was hit by a car (it 
was about 1/8 mile from the road) or if the coyotes actually killed it. Didn’t 
seem to worry  them at all that his dobermans were standing by the edge of 
their fence (buried wire) barking at them about 50’ away.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:13 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


We got this at 20:00 last night.



bp




On 4/20/2020 9:07 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Why are we mooing?

Can I cluck like a chicken instead?


On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Moo

From: castarritt .
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective treatment 
methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in an attempt to cause 
a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the healthcare industry too much, but 
eventually cause enough people to catch the virus that we develop herd immunity.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without China-level 
lock-downs or vaccines.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
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The Brothers WISP
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From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
Unless we relax and get a double bump.

From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I look at the curve and say we are half over.

From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that curve 
and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by the early 
hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still only slightly 
off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at 
hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep 
over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave.

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, dealing 
with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their families.  
If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going to have 
any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, even if they don’t 
get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out, this may be a war, but 
even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at risk.


From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of 
ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

[image]

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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan


  
  
We did not pay ourselves for the first 2 or 3 years of our
  S-corp. However, our accountant advised us to pay ourselves a
  token salary to avoid troublesome revenuers.

bp



On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Corporation
  I am a minority shareholder.  
  My wife is the majority shareholder.  But you still don’t
have to pay shareholders anything.  
  If they are on the board of directors they can earn a
directors fee.  
  

   
  
From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
  

 
  
  
I thought it was bad to have a business and
  not pay the owners "a reasonable salary".
  

  
 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

  
   

 

  On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at
12:46 PM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I
don’t need to?   I can take a repayment on notes
payable if I want money without any tax
implication.  Or I can take a directors fee
without FICA if I want to take money.  But what
in the hell am I going to do with a bunch of
money in my checking account?  I can buy more
TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon
pneumatic hammer drill setup for my directional
drills.  
   
  Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an
airplane.  I do miss the C-210 with known ice
capability.  But an ultralight would be more
fun.  
  Could do a sailboat but I would probably
never use it.   I used to sail on the Great Salt
Lake.  
   
  I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and
not really wanting for anything.  
  Other than visits from kids and grandkids.  
   
  In other words “I have sufficient for my
needs”.
  Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...
  

   
  
From: Josh Luthman

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020
  10:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm
Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt
  loan
  

 
  
  
Why were you not?
  

  
 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

  
   

 

  On Mon, Apr
20, 2020 at 11:19 AM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  We are still going to keep it
sequestered.  I should have been
paying myself...
  

   
  
From: Josh
Luthman

Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

2020-04-20 Thread James Howard

I think Josh is referring to a situation typically in an LLC or S-Corp where 
someone runs the company but takes little or no salary and then takes large 
distributions to avoid FICA and social security.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 1:17 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Corporation
I am a minority shareholder.
My wife is the majority shareholder.  But you still don’t have to pay 
shareholders anything.
If they are on the board of directors they can earn a directors fee.

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

I thought it was bad to have a business and not pay the owners "a reasonable 
salary".

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:46 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can take a 
repayment on notes payable if I want money without any tax implication.  Or I 
can take a directors fee without FICA if I want to take money.  But what in the 
hell am I going to do with a bunch of money in my checking account?  I can buy 
more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer drill setup 
for my directional drills.

Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210 with 
known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more fun.
Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used to sail on the 
Great Salt Lake.

I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting for anything.
Other than visits from kids and grandkids.

In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.
Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Why were you not?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying myself...

From: Josh Luthman
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did 
payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of the 
account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm told, 
should suffice.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> 
wrote:
Lewis,
Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the loan 
proceeds for approved uses?
Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general checking 
account.
I think we put them in a separate savings account.

From: Lewis Bergman
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

$10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between all the 
companies.

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


  
  
Coyotes around here come close to the houses and try to lure the
  domestic dogs to join their pack. I'm sure that would go well.


bp



On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, James Howard
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
You
could record that from my back deck most nights of the week.
 Thankfully they don’t seem to come close to our buildings
for some reason.  My neighbor said he got a pic of 12 of
them eating an adult deer about half way down his driveway a
couple of years ago.  We never knew if the deer was hit by a
car (it was about 1/8 mile from the road) or if the coyotes
actually killed it. Didn’t seem to worry  them at all that
his dobermans were standing by the edge of their fence
(buried wire) barking at them about 50’ away.
 

  
From: AF
[mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:13 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and
optimism
  

 
We got this at 20:00 last night.
 
bp

 

  On 4/20/2020 9:07 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:


  Why are we mooing?
  Can I cluck like a chicken instead?
   
  
On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:
  
  

  

  Moo


  

   


  
From:
castarritt .

  
  
Sent:
Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM
  
  
To:
AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

  
  
Subject:
Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and
optimism
  

  
  
 
  


  
It's
looking like the doctors have come up with
reasonably effective treatment methods, so I bet
we will slowly relax social distancing in an
attempt to cause a controlled spread that won't
overwhelm the healthcare industry too much, but
eventually cause enough people to catch the
virus that we develop herd immunity.
  
  
 
  
  

  On
  Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett
  
  wrote:


  

  I
  think double or even triple bumps are
  inevitable  without China-level
  lock-downs or vaccines.
  


  -
  Mike
Hammett
  Intelligent
Computing Solutions

  Midwest
Internet Exchange
  
  The
Brothers WISP
  
  
  

  
  
  

  
From:
ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users
Group" 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020
10:44:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a
bit of hope and optimism

Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

2020-04-20 Thread James Howard

My in-laws’ lot backs up to a “nature preserve” in a city nearby us.  They used 
to have coyotes in the back yard all the time.  The neighbors started 
complaining to the city because all their cats were disappearing.  One neighbor 
had their black lab mauled by the coyotes and the next house down had their 
little puff-ball dog eaten by them.  They made enough stink after that to get 
the city to hire someone to come in and shoot them with tranquilizers and take 
them away (the coyotes, not the neighbors).  I don’t think they’ve seen any 
behind their house since then.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 1:22 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


Coyotes around here come close to the houses and try to lure the domestic dogs 
to join their pack. I'm sure that would go well.



bp




On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, James Howard wrote:
You could record that from my back deck most nights of the week.  Thankfully 
they don’t seem to come close to our buildings for some reason.  My neighbor 
said he got a pic of 12 of them eating an adult deer about half way down his 
driveway a couple of years ago.  We never knew if the deer was hit by a car (it 
was about 1/8 mile from the road) or if the coyotes actually killed it. Didn’t 
seem to worry  them at all that his dobermans were standing by the edge of 
their fence (buried wire) barking at them about 50’ away.

From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:13 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


We got this at 20:00 last night.



bp




On 4/20/2020 9:07 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Why are we mooing?

Can I cluck like a chicken instead?


On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Moo

From: castarritt .
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective treatment 
methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in an attempt to cause 
a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the healthcare industry too much, but 
eventually cause enough people to catch the virus that we develop herd immunity.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett 
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:
I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without China-level 
lock-downs or vaccines.


-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/googleicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
Midwest Internet Exchange
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/linkedinicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/twittericon.png]
The Brothers WISP
[http://www.ics-il.com/images/fbicon.png][http://www.ics-il.com/images/youtubeicon.png]




From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
Unless we relax and get a double bump.

From: ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I look at the curve and say we are half over.

From: Ken Hohhof
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that curve 
and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by the early 
hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still only slightly 
off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at 
hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep 
over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave.

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, dealing 
with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their families.  
If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going to have

[AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

2020-04-20 Thread Jeremy Grip

Can anybody give me an idea of reasonable dark fiber pricing per strand mile? 
I’m trying to figure out if the rates Vermont asks for state-owned fiber are 
reasonable, see the attached.

 

Jeremy Grip, LTLOP (long time lurker, occasional poster)

 

 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Around here they are looking for a cat snack.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:22 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Coyotes around here come close to the houses and try to lure the domestic dogs 
to join their pack. I'm sure that would go well.

bp

On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, James Howard wrote:

  You could record that from my back deck most nights of the week.  Thankfully 
they don’t seem to come close to our buildings for some reason.  My neighbor 
said he got a pic of 12 of them eating an adult deer about half way down his 
driveway a couple of years ago.  We never knew if the deer was hit by a car (it 
was about 1/8 mile from the road) or if the coyotes actually killed it. Didn’t 
seem to worry  them at all that his dobermans were standing by the edge of 
their fence (buried wire) barking at them about 50’ away.

  From: AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] On Behalf Of Bill Prince
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:13 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  We got this at 20:00 last night.

bp On 4/20/2020 9:07 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Why are we mooing?

Can I cluck like a chicken instead?

On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Moo

  From: castarritt . 

  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM

  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably effective 
treatment methods, so I bet we will slowly relax social distancing in an 
attempt to cause a controlled spread that won't overwhelm the healthcare 
industry too much, but eventually cause enough people to catch the virus that 
we develop herd immunity.

  On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett  wrote:

I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable  without 
China-level lock-downs or vaccines.

-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: "AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Unless we relax and get a double bump.  

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I look at the curve and say we are half over.  

From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM

To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that 
curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by the 
early hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still only 
slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated 
trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun 
to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long 
tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second 
wave.

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, 
dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their 
families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going 
to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, even if they 
don’t get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out, this may be a war, 
but even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at risk.

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

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Re: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

Does not look bad to me.  

From: Jeremy Grip 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:44 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

Can anybody give me an idea of reasonable dark fiber pricing per strand mile? 
I’m trying to figure out if the rates Vermont asks for state-owned fiber are 
reasonable, see the attached.

Jeremy Grip, LTLOP (long time lurker, occasional poster)

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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Most WISPS started as a side hustle I think.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

We did not pay ourselves for the first 2 or 3 years of our S-corp. However, our 
accountant advised us to pay ourselves a token salary to avoid troublesome 
revenuers.

bp

On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Corporation
  I am a minority shareholder.  
  My wife is the majority shareholder.  But you still don’t have to pay 
shareholders anything.  
  If they are on the board of directors they can earn a directors fee.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

  I thought it was bad to have a business and not pay the owners "a reasonable 
salary".

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:46 PM  wrote:

dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can take a 
repayment on notes payable if I want money without any tax implication.  Or I 
can take a directors fee without FICA if I want to take money.  But what in the 
hell am I going to do with a bunch of money in my checking account?  I can buy 
more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer drill setup 
for my directional drills.  

Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210 with 
known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more fun.  
Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used to sail on 
the Great Salt Lake.  

I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting for anything. 

Other than visits from kids and grandkids.  

In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.
Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Why were you not?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM  wrote:

  We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying 
myself...

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

  It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you did 
payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of the 
account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm told, 
should suffice.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:

Lewis,
Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the 
loan proceeds for approved uses?
Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general 
checking account.  
I think we put them in a separate savings account.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

$10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between 
all the companies. 

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:

  Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

2020-04-20 Thread Jeff Broadwick - Lists

Only after Pearl Harbor...and the Nazi’s foolishly declaring war on the US in 
the immediate aftermath.

Jeff Broadwick
CTIconnect
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

> On Apr 20, 2020, at 12:38 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Just contrasting the current situation to what I know about WWII.  Everyone 
> seemed to get behind the war effort irrespective of politics.
> I came of age during Vietnam.  So we had the polar opposite of that in those 
> years. 
>  
> From: Adam Moffett
> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:24 AM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
>  
> The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone thinks 
> you're talking about someone else but not them.  It's everyone and it always 
> will be.
> 
> Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality of 
> "what will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want voters to 
> think I'm doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be re-elected.  We 
> all, in theory, want our politicians to do the right thing and tell the truth 
> about it, but in reality they're going to do what they think their voters 
> want, or if they can't then they'll try to tell them what they want to hear.  
> We can't expect anything other than politics from politicians.  When someone 
> gets a job by winning a popularity contest they're going to be somewhat 
> narcissistic to begin with.  The ones who keep the job the longest are the 
> ones with the most narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the greatest 
> skill at deflecting, equivocating, and outright BS'ing.
> 
> I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons or 
> parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in general.  
> The problem of course is that every other method is worse.
> 
>  
> 
>> On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:
>>  
>> If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan politics 
>> before they even left the spacecraft. 
>>  
>> If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a catch, 
>> PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections. 
>>  
>> From: Jaime Solorza
>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM
>> To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
>>  
>> Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands 
>> from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.
>>  
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes 
>>  wrote:
>>> This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths 
>>> related to usual activities.
>>> 
>>> On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this 
 time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall, 
 even with the virus.
 
 Jeff Broadwick
 CTIconnect
 312-205-2519 Office
 574-220-7826 Cell
 jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
 
> On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
> 
> 
> Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen 
> deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are 
> done.  All in a few short months. 
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> 
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Sad...  http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh

From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 1:00 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Only after Pearl Harbor...and the Nazi’s foolishly declaring war on the US in 
the immediate aftermath.

Jeff Broadwick 
CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

  On Apr 20, 2020, at 12:38 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Just contrasting the current situation to what I know about WWII.  Everyone 
seemed to get behind the war effort irrespective of politics.
  I came of age during Vietnam.  So we had the polar opposite of that in those 
years.  

  From: Adam Moffett 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:24 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

  The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone thinks 
you're talking about someone else but not them.  It's everyone and it always 
will be.

  Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality of 
"what will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want voters to think 
I'm doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be re-elected.  We all, in 
theory, want our politicians to do the right thing and tell the truth about it, 
but in reality they're going to do what they think their voters want, or if 
they can't then they'll try to tell them what they want to hear.  We can't 
expect anything other than politics from politicians.  When someone gets a job 
by winning a popularity contest they're going to be somewhat narcissistic to 
begin with.  The ones who keep the job the longest are the ones with the most 
narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the greatest skill at deflecting, 
equivocating, and outright BS'ing.

  I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons or 
parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in general.  The 
problem of course is that every other method is worse.

  On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:

If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan politics 
before they even left the spacecraft.  

If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a catch, 
PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.  

From: Jaime Solorza 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands 
from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

  This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths 
related to usual activities.

  On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  
wrote:

I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during 
this time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall, 
even with the virus.

Jeff Broadwick 
CTIconnect

312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

  On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen 
deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  
All in a few short months.  
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Re: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

2020-04-20 Thread Sterling Jacobson

That’s not bad, on par with some long term dark fiber rental contracts I have 
currently.

From: AF  On Behalf Of Jeremy Grip
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:44 PM
To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
Subject: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

Can anybody give me an idea of reasonable dark fiber pricing per strand mile? 
I’m trying to figure out if the rates Vermont asks for state-owned fiber are 
reasonable, see the attached.

Jeremy Grip, LTLOP (long time lurker, occasional poster)

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Re: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

2020-04-20 Thread Chris Fabien

Those seem like fair rates, is that all inclusive or will you also get
billed for maintenance annually or per-event?

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:44 PM Jeremy Grip  wrote:

> Can anybody give me an idea of reasonable dark fiber pricing per strand
> mile? I’m trying to figure out if the rates Vermont asks for state-owned
> fiber are reasonable, see the attached.
>
>
>
> Jeremy Grip, LTLOP (long time lurker, occasional poster)
>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing


Comparable to what I've seen before.

It seems nuts when you multiply it out over 30 miles, but not as nuts as 
building it.



On 4/20/2020 2:44 PM, Jeremy Grip wrote:


Can anybody give me an idea of reasonable dark fiber pricing per 
strand mile? I’m trying to figure out if the rates Vermont asks for 
state-owned fiber are reasonable, see the attached.


Jeremy Grip, LTLOP (long time lurker, occasional poster)


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Re: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

2020-04-20 Thread Nate Burke

I'm not in the dark fiber game, but what do you mean by 'per-event' 
billing?  Like if there's a fiber cut, you're responsible for part of 
the repair cost?  Or is that for like accessing the electronics on the 
ends of the fiber.


On 4/20/2020 2:10 PM, Chris Fabien wrote:
Those seem like fair rates, is that all inclusive or will you also get 
billed for maintenance annually or per-event?


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:44 PM Jeremy Grip > wrote:


Can anybody give me an idea of reasonable dark fiber pricing per
strand mile? I’m trying to figure out if the rates Vermont asks
for state-owned fiber are reasonable, see the attached.

Jeremy Grip, LTLOP (long time lurker, occasional poster)

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Re: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

In my experience you pay a recurring maintenance fee to cover repairs 
and such.


You don't get to access their cases, so you leave them a pigtail and 
they splice it into their system.  Often you pay each time you need them 
to make a connection for you (hopefully just the once).



On 4/20/2020 3:20 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm not in the dark fiber game, but what do you mean by 'per-event' 
billing?  Like if there's a fiber cut, you're responsible for part of 
the repair cost?  Or is that for like accessing the electronics on the 
ends of the fiber.


On 4/20/2020 2:10 PM, Chris Fabien wrote:
Those seem like fair rates, is that all inclusive or will you also 
get billed for maintenance annually or per-event?


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:44 PM Jeremy Grip > wrote:


Can anybody give me an idea of reasonable dark fiber pricing per
strand mile? I’m trying to figure out if the rates Vermont asks
for state-owned fiber are reasonable, see the attached.

Jeremy Grip, LTLOP (long time lurker, occasional poster)

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism


  
  
One of our neighbors had a coyote waltz into their house (door
  was open) and snatch their dachshund. They were sitting at the
  kitchen table and were dumbfounded while they watched their little
  wiener dog disappear forever.

bp



On 4/20/2020 11:35 AM, James Howard
  wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
My
in-laws’ lot backs up to a “nature preserve” in a city
nearby us.  They used to have coyotes in the back yard all
the time.  The neighbors started complaining to the city
because all their cats were disappearing.  One neighbor had
their black lab mauled by the coyotes and the next house
down had their little puff-ball dog eaten by them.  They
made enough stink after that to get the city to hire someone
to come in and shoot them with tranquilizers and take them
away (the coyotes, not the neighbors).  I don’t think
they’ve seen any behind their house since then.
 

  
From: AF
[mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 1:22 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and
optimism
  

 
Coyotes around here come close to the houses and try to lure
  the domestic dogs to join their pack. I'm sure that would go
  well.
 
bp

 

  On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, James Howard
wrote:


  You
  could record that from my back deck most nights of the
  week.  Thankfully they don’t seem to come close to our
  buildings for some reason.  My neighbor said he got a pic
  of 12 of them eating an adult deer about half way down his
  driveway a couple of years ago.  We never knew if the deer
  was hit by a car (it was about 1/8 mile from the road) or
  if the coyotes actually killed it. Didn’t seem to worry
   them at all that his dobermans were standing by the edge
  of their fence (buried wire) barking at them about 50’
  away.
   
  

  From: AF
  [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com]
  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:13 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and
  optimism

  
   
  We got this at 20:00 last night.
   
  bp
  
   
  
On 4/20/2020 9:07 AM, Adam Moffett
  wrote:
  
  
Why are we mooing?
Can I cluck like a chicken instead?
 

  On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
wrote:


  

  
Moo
  
  

  
 
  
  

  From:
  castarritt .



  Sent:
  Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM


  To:
  AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group



  Subject:
  Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and
  optimism

  


   

  
  

  It's
  looking like the doctors have come up with
  reasonably effective treatment methods, so I
  bet we will slowly relax social distancing in
  an attempt to cause a controlled spread that
  won't overwhelm the healthcare industry too
  much, but eventually cause enough people to
  catch the virus that we develop herd immunity.


   


  
On
Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett

Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan


  
  
Ours was. We just wanted broadband at the time (we have a 73,000'
  line to the nearest CO and dialup got us 26 Kbps on a good day).
  When I first learned of the last mile problem, I realized that
  conventional wired broadband would probably not happen here in my
  lifetime. The original goal was to get enough neighbors signed up
  so that it would not cost an arm and a leg. I really just wanted
  enough subscribers to cover the cost. I figured 2 or 3 dozen
  neighbors would do it. Then it became something like selling
  heroin, and the rest is history.


bp



On 4/20/2020 11:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Most WISPS started as a side hustle I think.  
  

   
  
From: Bill
Prince 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
  

 
  
  
We did not pay ourselves for the first 2 or 3 years of
  our S-corp. However, our accountant advised us to pay
  ourselves a token salary to avoid troublesome revenuers.

bp



On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  

  Corporation
  I am a minority shareholder.  
  My wife is the majority shareholder.  But you
still don’t have to pay shareholders anything.  
  If they are on the board of directors they can
earn a directors fee.  
  

   
  
From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:04
  PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave
Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
  

 
  
  
I thought it was bad to have a
  business and not pay the owners "a reasonable
  salary".
  

  
 
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

  
   

 

  On Mon, Apr 20,
2020 at 12:46 PM 
wrote:
  
  

  

  dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself
when I don’t need to?   I can take a
repayment on notes payable if I want
money without any tax implication.  Or I
can take a directors fee without FICA if
I want to take money.  But what in the
hell am I going to do with a bunch of
money in my checking account?  I can buy
more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have
a Mincon pneumatic hammer drill setup
for my directional drills.  
   
  Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or
an airplane.  I do miss the C-210 with
known ice capability.  But an ultralight
would be more fun.  
  Could do a sailboat but I would
probably never use it.   I used to sail
on the Great Salt Lake.  
   
  I am just fortunate to be
semi-retired and not really wanting for
anything.  
  Other than visits from kids and
grandkids.  
   
  In other words “I have sufficient for
my needs”.
  Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...

Re: [AFMUG] Is PRI voice still a thing?

2020-04-20 Thread Daniel White

Assuming the LTE signal is good it shouldn't be too big of an issue. 
I've not done any real testing with an active SIP session but I might
give that a shot soon.

Thank you,

photograph  
Daniel White
Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
direct:+1 (702) 470-2766

Seth Mattinen wrote on 4/18/20 08:44:
> On 4/18/20 6:05 AM, Daniel White wrote:
>> LTE backup is probably cheaper.  We offer that as a solution to our
>> clients at least for internet connectivity loss.
>>
>
> Is it integrated enough to switch over to backup without interrupting
> calls? Like right now if I pull the active side of the OC-12 ring the
> PRI is on it will switch to the other side seamlessly.

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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

2020-04-20 Thread Bruce Robertson


That's almost exactly how my company started.

On 4/20/20 12:38 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


Ours was. We just wanted broadband at the time (we have a 73,000' line 
to the nearest CO and dialup got us 26 Kbps on a good day). When I 
first learned of the last mile problem, I realized that conventional 
wired broadband would probably not happen here in my lifetime. The 
original goal was to get enough neighbors signed up so that it would 
not cost an arm and a leg. I really just wanted enough subscribers to 
cover the cost. I figured 2 or 3 dozen neighbors would do it. Then it 
became something like selling heroin, and the rest is history.



bp


On 4/20/2020 11:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Most WISPS started as a side hustle I think.
*From:* Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 12:20 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

We did not pay ourselves for the first 2 or 3 years of our S-corp. 
However, our accountant advised us to pay ourselves a token salary to 
avoid troublesome revenuers.


bp


On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Corporation
I am a minority shareholder.
My wife is the majority shareholder.  But you still don’t have to 
pay shareholders anything.

If they are on the board of directors they can earn a directors fee.
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 12:04 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
I thought it was bad to have a business and not pay the owners "a 
reasonable salary".

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:46 PM  wrote:

dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can
take a repayment on notes payable if I want money without any
tax implication.  Or I can take a directors fee without FICA if
I want to take money.  But what in the hell am I going to do
with a bunch of money in my checking account?  I can buy more
TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer
drill setup for my directional drills.
Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the
C-210 with known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be
more fun.
Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used
to sail on the Great Salt Lake.
I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting
for anything.
Other than visits from kids and grandkids.
In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.
Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
Why were you not?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM  wrote:

We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have
been paying myself...
*From:* Josh Luthman
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is
prove you did payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your
case, show 90k came out of the account to payroll.  The
reports that the payroll company does, I'm told, should suffice.
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:

Lewis,
Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove
you used the loan proceeds for approved uses?
Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a
general checking account.
I think we put them in a separate savings account.
*From:* Lewis Bergman
*Sent:* Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
*To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
$10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly
$500k between all the companies.
On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:

Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today. 
We shall see...
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Re: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

2020-04-20 Thread Nate Burke

So do you only pay for the dark fiber for the physical cable length that 
they have it, Like Splice box to splice box, then you put a pig tail on 
the end of that.  Or Would the 'Connection' cost be for every splice box 
they have to go through.  Say, a connection from City A to City C, but 
the Fiber goes through CityB?  Is there a 'connection' in City B, or do 
you have to have equipment in CityB.


On 4/20/2020 2:23 PM, Adam Moffett wrote:


In my experience you pay a recurring maintenance fee to cover repairs 
and such.


You don't get to access their cases, so you leave them a pigtail and 
they splice it into their system.  Often you pay each time you need 
them to make a connection for you (hopefully just the once).



On 4/20/2020 3:20 PM, Nate Burke wrote:
I'm not in the dark fiber game, but what do you mean by 'per-event' 
billing?  Like if there's a fiber cut, you're responsible for part of 
the repair cost?  Or is that for like accessing the electronics on 
the ends of the fiber.


On 4/20/2020 2:10 PM, Chris Fabien wrote:
Those seem like fair rates, is that all inclusive or will you also 
get billed for maintenance annually or per-event?


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:44 PM Jeremy Grip > wrote:


Can anybody give me an idea of reasonable dark fiber pricing per
strand mile? I’m trying to figure out if the rates Vermont asks
for state-owned fiber are reasonable, see the attached.

Jeremy Grip, LTLOP (long time lurker, occasional poster)

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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Me too.

From: Bruce Robertson 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 2:53 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

That's almost exactly how my company started.

On 4/20/20 12:38 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

  Ours was. We just wanted broadband at the time (we have a 73,000' line to the 
nearest CO and dialup got us 26 Kbps on a good day). When I first learned of 
the last mile problem, I realized that conventional wired broadband would 
probably not happen here in my lifetime. The original goal was to get enough 
neighbors signed up so that it would not cost an arm and a leg. I really just 
wanted enough subscribers to cover the cost. I figured 2 or 3 dozen neighbors 
would do it. Then it became something like selling heroin, and the rest is 
history.

bp

On 4/20/2020 11:54 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Most WISPS started as a side hustle I think.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:20 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

We did not pay ourselves for the first 2 or 3 years of our S-corp. However, 
our accountant advised us to pay ourselves a token salary to avoid troublesome 
revenuers.

bp

On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  Corporation
  I am a minority shareholder.  
  My wife is the majority shareholder.  But you still don’t have to pay 
shareholders anything.  
  If they are on the board of directors they can earn a directors fee.  

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 12:04 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

  I thought it was bad to have a business and not pay the owners "a 
reasonable salary".

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:46 PM  wrote:

dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can take a 
repayment on notes payable if I want money without any tax implication.  Or I 
can take a directors fee without FICA if I want to take money.  But what in the 
hell am I going to do with a bunch of money in my checking account?  I can buy 
more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer drill setup 
for my directional drills.  

Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210 
with known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more fun.  
Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used to sail 
on the Great Salt Lake.  

I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting for 
anything.  
Other than visits from kids and grandkids.  

In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.
Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

Why were you not?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM  wrote:

  We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying 
myself...

  From: Josh Luthman 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

  It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you 
did payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out of 
the account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm told, 
should suffice.

  Josh Luthman
  Office: 937-552-2340
  Direct: 937-552-2343
  1100 Wayne St
  Suite 1337
  Troy, OH 45373

  On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:

Lewis,
Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used 
the loan proceeds for approved uses?
Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general 
checking account.  
I think we put them in a separate savings account.  

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

$10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k 
between all the companies. 

On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:

  Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall 
see...
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Re: [AFMUG] Is PRI voice still a thing?

2020-04-20 Thread Lewis Bergman

We have several LTE backup customers. If you leave it in an "active" state
you can pull the plug and nobody knows the difference. It uses a lot of
data so most of ours settle for the roughly 10 second reregistration if the
setup that cheers almost no data.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 3:29 PM Daniel White  wrote:

> Assuming the LTE signal is good it shouldn't be too big of an issue.  I've
> not done any real testing with an active SIP session but I might give that
> a shot soon.
>
> Thank you,
>
> [image: photograph]
> Daniel White
> Co-Founder & Managing Director of Operations
> phone: +1 (702) 470-2770
> direct: +1 (702) 470-2766
> Seth Mattinen wrote on 4/18/20 08:44:
>
> On 4/18/20 6:05 AM, Daniel White wrote:
>
> LTE backup is probably cheaper.  We offer that as a solution to our
> clients at least for internet connectivity loss.
>
>
> Is it integrated enough to switch over to backup without interrupting
> calls? Like right now if I pull the active side of the OC-12 ring the PRI
> is on it will switch to the other side seamlessly.
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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[AFMUG] 5.9 STA

2020-04-20 Thread Gilbert Gutierrez

Those of you that applied...What schedules did you attach to your 601
application? There is a lot with the application and being able to
narrow it down would be a help.

Gilbert
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

ha

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 4:41 PM  wrote:

> Sad...  http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh
>
> *From:* Jeff Broadwick - Lists
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 1:00 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
>
> Only after Pearl Harbor...and the Nazi’s foolishly declaring war on the US
> in the immediate aftermath.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> CTIconnect
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>
> On Apr 20, 2020, at 12:38 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> 
> Just contrasting the current situation to what I know about WWII.
> Everyone seemed to get behind the war effort irrespective of politics.
> I came of age during Vietnam.  So we had the polar opposite of that in
> those years.
>
> *From:* Adam Moffett
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:24 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
>
>
> The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone
> thinks you're talking about someone else but not them.  It's everyone and
> it always will be.
>
> Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality of
> "what will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want voters to
> think I'm doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be re-elected.  We
> all, in theory, want our politicians to do the right thing and tell the
> truth about it, but in reality they're going to do what they think their
> voters want, or if they can't then they'll try to tell them what they want
> to hear.  We can't expect anything other than politics from politicians.
> When someone gets a job by winning a popularity contest they're going to be
> somewhat narcissistic to begin with.  The ones who keep the job the longest
> are the ones with the most narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the
> greatest skill at deflecting, equivocating, and outright BS'ing.
>
> I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons or
> parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in general.
> The problem of course is that every other method is worse.
>
>
> On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:
>
> If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan
> politics before they even left the spacecraft.
>
> If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a
> catch, PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.
>
> *From:* Jaime Solorza
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus
>
> Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs hands
> from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes <
> mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net> wrote:
>
>> This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths
>> related to usual activities.
>>
>> On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
>> wrote:
>>
>> I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during this
>> time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall,
>> even with the virus.
>>
>> Jeff Broadwick
>> CTIconnect
>> 312-205-2519 Office
>> 574-220-7826 Cell
>> jbroadw...@cticonnect.com
>>
>> On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen
>> deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are
>> done.  All in a few short months.
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>> --
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>>
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>>
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> --
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

Finally.

From: Steve Jones 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 4:04 PM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

ha

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 4:41 PM  wrote:

  Sad...  http://tinyurl.com/2g9mqh

  From: Jeff Broadwick - Lists 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 1:00 PM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

  Only after Pearl Harbor...and the Nazi’s foolishly declaring war on the US in 
the immediate aftermath.

  Jeff Broadwick 
  CTIconnect

  312-205-2519 Office
  574-220-7826 Cell
  jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Apr 20, 2020, at 12:38 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Just contrasting the current situation to what I know about WWII.  Everyone 
seemed to get behind the war effort irrespective of politics.
I came of age during Vietnam.  So we had the polar opposite of that in 
those years.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:24 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

The funny thing is when you talk about politicizing a crisis, everyone 
thinks you're talking about someone else but not them.  It's everyone and it 
always will be.

Every elected person has to address every situation with the mentality of 
"what will voters want me to do?".  Or perhaps, "what do I want voters to think 
I'm doing?"  If they didn't do that they wouldn't be re-elected.  We all, in 
theory, want our politicians to do the right thing and tell the truth about it, 
but in reality they're going to do what they think their voters want, or if 
they can't then they'll try to tell them what they want to hear.  We can't 
expect anything other than politics from politicians.  When someone gets a job 
by winning a popularity contest they're going to be somewhat narcissistic to 
begin with.  The ones who keep the job the longest are the ones with the most 
narcissistic tendencies because they'll have the greatest skill at deflecting, 
equivocating, and outright BS'ing.

I hope this doesn't count as a lent issue.  I'm not naming any persons or 
parties and it's more of an indictment of electoral processes in general.  The 
problem of course is that every other method is worse.

On 4/20/2020 11:16 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  I am normally pretty optimistic, so feeling a bit cynical this morning:

  If aliens landed in a mars attacks style, if would become partisan 
politics before they even left the spacecraft.  

  If Jesus appeared walking across the sea, helping fishermen gather a 
catch, PETA and Greenpeace would be filing injections.  

  From: Jaime Solorza 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 8:56 AM
  To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT Virus

  Didn't your governor procure PPE stuff in stealth mode to keep FEMAs 
hands from stealing these supplies? That doesn't inept to me, Steve.

  On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:02 AM Matt Hoppes 
 wrote:

This is correct, there have been a few were accidents, and other deaths 
related to usual activities.

On Apr 20, 2020, at 7:53 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists  
wrote:

  I’ll be interested to see the overall death rates for the US during 
this time.  I suspect that they will be down from their usual levels, overall, 
even with the virus.

  Jeff Broadwick 
  CTIconnect

  312-205-2519 Office
  574-220-7826 Cell
  jbroadw...@cticonnect.com

On Apr 19, 2020, at 7:21 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Sobering to see that we have passed the number of the US servicemen 
deaths in the Korean war and will probably pass Vietnam before we are done.  
All in a few short months.  
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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

2020-04-20 Thread Keefe John

What's your idea of a token salary in respect to an S-Corp?

Keefe



On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 1:21 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> We did not pay ourselves for the first 2 or 3 years of our S-corp.
> However, our accountant advised us to pay ourselves a token salary to avoid
> troublesome revenuers.
>
> bp
> 
>
>
> On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Corporation
> I am a minority shareholder.
> My wife is the majority shareholder.  But you still don’t have to pay
> shareholders anything.
> If they are on the board of directors they can earn a directors fee.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 12:04 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>
> I thought it was bad to have a business and not pay the owners "a
> reasonable salary".
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:46 PM  wrote:
>
>> dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can take a
>> repayment on notes payable if I want money without any tax implication.  Or
>> I can take a directors fee without FICA if I want to take money.  But what
>> in the hell am I going to do with a bunch of money in my checking account?
>> I can buy more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer
>> drill setup for my directional drills.
>>
>> Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210
>> with known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more fun.
>> Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used to sail
>> on the Great Salt Lake.
>>
>> I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting for
>> anything.
>> Other than visits from kids and grandkids.
>>
>> In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.
>> Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>>
>> Why were you not?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM  wrote:
>>
>>> We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying
>>> myself...
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>>>
>>> It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you
>>> did payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out
>>> of the account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm
>>> told, should suffice.
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:
>>>
 Lewis,
 Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the
 loan proceeds for approved uses?
 Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general
 checking account.
 I think we put them in a separate savings account.

 *From:* Lewis Bergman
 *Sent:* Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

 $10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between
 all the companies.

 On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:

> Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
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>>>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

2020-04-20 Thread Lewis Bergman

Minimum wage

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 6:18 PM Keefe John  wrote:

> What's your idea of a token salary in respect to an S-Corp?
>
> Keefe
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 1:21 PM Bill Prince  wrote:
>
>> We did not pay ourselves for the first 2 or 3 years of our S-corp.
>> However, our accountant advised us to pay ourselves a token salary to avoid
>> troublesome revenuers.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>>
>> On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Corporation
>> I am a minority shareholder.
>> My wife is the majority shareholder.  But you still don’t have to pay
>> shareholders anything.
>> If they are on the board of directors they can earn a directors fee.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 12:04 PM
>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>>
>> I thought it was bad to have a business and not pay the owners "a
>> reasonable salary".
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 12:46 PM  wrote:
>>
>>> dunno...  Why pay FICA for myself when I don’t need to?   I can take a
>>> repayment on notes payable if I want money without any tax implication.  Or
>>> I can take a directors fee without FICA if I want to take money.  But what
>>> in the hell am I going to do with a bunch of money in my checking account?
>>> I can buy more TSLA I guess.  I would rather have a Mincon pneumatic hammer
>>> drill setup for my directional drills.
>>>
>>> Resisting the urge to buy a Tesla or an airplane.  I do miss the C-210
>>> with known ice capability.  But an ultralight would be more fun.
>>> Could do a sailboat but I would probably never use it.   I used to sail
>>> on the Great Salt Lake.
>>>
>>> I am just fortunate to be semi-retired and not really wanting for
>>> anything.
>>> Other than visits from kids and grandkids.
>>>
>>> In other words “I have sufficient for my needs”.
>>> Maybe a water jet or a CNC laser...
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman
>>> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:37 AM
>>> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>>>
>>> Why were you not?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 11:19 AM  wrote:
>>>
 We are still going to keep it sequestered.  I should have been paying
 myself...

 *From:* Josh Luthman
 *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:02 AM
 *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan

 It's my understanding that in 8 weeks all you have to do is prove you
 did payroll for 75% of the amount loaned.  In your case, show 90k came out
 of the account to payroll.  The reports that the payroll company does, I'm
 told, should suffice.

 Josh Luthman
 Office: 937-552-2340
 Direct: 937-552-2343
 1100 Wayne St
 Suite 1337
 Troy, OH 45373


 On Sun, Apr 19, 2020 at 12:17 PM  wrote:

> Lewis,
> Are you taking any special measures to be able to prove you used the
> loan proceeds for approved uses?
> Kinda hard when they get comingled with other funds in a general
> checking account.
> I think we put them in a separate savings account.
>
> *From:* Lewis Bergman
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 18, 2020 6:09 PM
> *To:* AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT guvmnt loan
>
> $10k? How many people do you have? I think I got nearly $500k between
> all the companies.
>
> On Sat, Apr 18, 2020, 7:01 PM  wrote:
>
>> Got our supposedly to be forgiven $10K loan today.  We shall see...
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
 --
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
 --
 AF mailing list
 AF@af.afmug.com
 http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

>>> --
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> --
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>>
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>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
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>>
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>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Then you don't understand social distancing and herd immunity. This is 
just moving the infection rate out into the future spread over a much 
longer range.   We still get infected to 70-80% before herd immunity 
kicks in about 2-3 months _before_ the current schedule of vaccine 
availability.   1/2 over will be 3-4 months from now.  Now if someone 
comes out with a vaccine, different ball game.   Oh and the ebola 
anti-viral...  Gilead is testing with the best case possible patients.   
And results so far don't show anything better with those cases than 
leaving the patients alone.   Sounds like Gilead is doing everything 
they can to make it sound like their stuff is a winner without actually 
proving it...


On 4/20/20 8:44 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I look at the curve and say we are half over.
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at 
that curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably 
dominated by the early hit densely populated areas like New York, 
where they are still only slightly off the peak death rate and are 
still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the 
nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep over the 
less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave.


Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, 
dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting 
their families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, 
we aren’t going to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job 
long term, even if they don’t get sick and die?  As various people 
have pointed out, this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t asked to 
put their family’s lives at risk.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

image


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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

J&J is proclaiming LOUDLY that they will have 1 Billion doses of vaccine 
in 2 months.  But it won't be available to administer until testing 
completes in January.  So IF that vaccine completes testing 
_successfully_ ( big IF ).  They will be ready for world innoculation ( 
and they say at no profit ) in January.


On 4/20/20 9:33 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


What are the treatments that are now working?  I try to be optimistic 
about antivirals and convalescent plasma, but right now they mainly 
have ventilators, which honestly aren’t very successful if 70-80% of 
the people die.  They keep doing that because it’s the textbook 
therapy for respiratory distress, but it ain’t working.  Even if it 
were working, ventilators are not a treatment, they don’t reverse the 
disease, they are just a measure to get you oxygen while your body 
hopefully fights the infection.  And then you have the people 
experiencing kidney failure and needing dialysis, they’re not sure if 
the damage is permanent.


I hope you’re right that the medical community has learned how to 
treat it, but I haven’t heard the evidence for that.


Regarding a vaccine, one interesting piece of information I read was 
that even if they develop a successful and safe vaccine (many 
challenges including the sensitization problem), then they have to 
scale up vaccine production.  Right now most vaccines are just for 
each new wave of schoolchildren, this would have to be for the entire 
population.  And not in chicken eggs, it would have to be in big 
vats.  And the interesting part is they could repurpose fermentation 
tanks used for things like brewing beer.


*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 11:20 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Time will tell based on whether it actually starts declining in a 
meaningful way, or whether we're going to bump along for a bit. 
Remember, the goal was to flatten the curve; it wasn't necessarily 
going to reduce the number of infections. I get the impression that 
the medical community has learned a lot about how to actually treat it.


Let's see where we are a week from today (April 27). If we are over 1 
million infections, this may be going a while yet. If it is under 1 
million, I would be more encouraged.


bp


On 4/20/2020 8:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com  wrote:

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

image






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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

The Indians ( big continent ones ) have already said they have a 
mutation recorded that is less lethal..  But it hasn't been peer 
reviewed.  So it's yet another twitter rumor level without that..


On 4/20/20 11:08 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


Maybe each mutation will make the virus less deadly.  Ever see the 
movie Multiplicity?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiplicity_(film)

*From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *dave
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 12:50 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

It mutating and soon im sure the mutation could have the same affect 
as the walking dead.



On 4/20/20 11:08 AM, Bill Prince wrote:

I think fall is overly optimistic. That would barely be enough to
get through early testing. Early 2021 is my bet for the earliest
availability of an actual vaccine.

bp



On 4/20/2020 9:05 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com  wrote:

Hopefully we will have a vaccine by fall.  Hopefully they will
have sorted out what treatments work by July. Hopefully lotsa
good testing by June.

But baseball seems to be totally f*cked.  Hopefully not
college football too...

*From:*Mike Hammett

*Sent:*Monday, April 20, 2020 9:49 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable 
without China-level lock-downs or vaccines.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 







*From: *ch...@wbmfg.com 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" 

*Sent: *Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Unless we relax and get a double bump.

*From:*ch...@wbmfg.com 

*Sent:*Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I look at the curve and say we are half over.

*From:*Ken Hohhof

*Sent:*Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can
look at that curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That
curve is probably dominated by the early hit densely populated
areas like New York, where they are still only slightly off
the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in
refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and
prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep over the less dense
areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big
second wave.

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and
dying, dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying
about infecting their families.  If this is still coming in
waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going to have any doctors
and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, even if they
don’t get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out,
this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t asked to put their
family’s lives at risk.

*From:*AF 
 *On Behalf Of
*ch...@wbmfg.com 
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

image



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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Just look at the Spanish flu curves.  They had no vaccine.  They conquered it 
by quarantine and social distancing.  

From: Robert 
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 5:37 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Then you don't understand social distancing and herd immunity.   This is just 
moving the infection rate out into the future spread over a much longer range.  
 We still get infected to 70-80% before herd immunity kicks in about 2-3 months 
_before_ the current schedule of vaccine availability.   1/2 over will be 3-4 
months from now.  Now if someone comes out with a vaccine, different ball game. 
  Oh and the ebola anti-viral...  Gilead is testing with the best case possible 
patients.   And results so far don't show anything better with those cases than 
leaving the patients alone.   Sounds like Gilead is doing everything they can 
to make it sound like their stuff is a winner without actually proving it...

On 4/20/20 8:44 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

  I look at the curve and say we are half over.  

  From: Ken Hohhof 
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
  To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group' 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that curve 
and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by the early 
hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still only slightly 
off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at 
hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep 
over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave.

  Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, dealing 
with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their families.  
If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going to have 
any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, even if they don’t 
get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out, this may be a war, but 
even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at risk.

  From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

  Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

They will send a female in heat around the male dogs to get them to go 
out after the female and then kill the dog.   More than a couple around 
here.


On 4/20/20 11:22 AM, Bill Prince wrote:


Coyotes around here come close to the houses and try to lure the 
domestic dogs to join their pack. I'm sure that would go well.



bp


On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, James Howard wrote:


You could record that from my back deck most nights of the week. 
 Thankfully they don’t seem to come close to our buildings for some 
reason.  My neighbor said he got a pic of 12 of them eating an adult 
deer about half way down his driveway a couple of years ago.  We 
never knew if the deer was hit by a car (it was about 1/8 mile from 
the road) or if the coyotes actually killed it. Didn’t seem to worry 
 them at all that his dobermans were standing by the edge of their 
fence (buried wire) barking at them about 50’ away.


*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 11:13 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

We got this at 20:00 last night.

bp


On 4/20/2020 9:07 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Why are we mooing?

Can I cluck like a chicken instead?

On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com 
wrote:

Moo

*From:*castarritt .

*Sent:*Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

It's looking like the doctors have come up with reasonably
effective treatment methods, so I bet we will slowly relax
social distancing in an attempt to cause a controlled spread
that won't overwhelm the healthcare industry too much, but
eventually cause enough people to catch the virus that we
develop herd immunity.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

I think double or even triple bumps are inevitable 
without China-level lock-downs or vaccines.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 








*From: *ch...@wbmfg.com 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group" mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Unless we relax and get a double bump.

*From:*ch...@wbmfg.com 

*Sent:*Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I look at the curve and say we are half over.

*From:*Ken Hohhof

*Sent:*Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone
can look at that curve and say it’s over, I don’t know. 
That curve is probably dominated by the early hit densely
populated areas like New York, where they are still only
slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling
bodies in refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the
nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep
over the less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be
the long tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we
screwed up and brought a big second wave.

Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected
and dying, dealing with patients dying on every shift,
worrying about infecting their families.  If this is
still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t going
to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job
long term, even if they don’t get sick and die?  As
various people have pointed out, this may be a war, but
even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s lives at
risk.

*From:*AF mailto:af-b

Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

We've had a couple of recent cases of them jumping 6 foot fences and 
making off with small dogs.  People are putting up the rollers on the 
edges of the fences to prevent that.


On 4/20/20 12:34 PM, Bill Prince wrote:


One of our neighbors had a coyote waltz into their house (door was 
open) and snatch their dachshund. They were sitting at the kitchen 
table and were dumbfounded while they watched their little wiener dog 
disappear forever.


bp


On 4/20/2020 11:35 AM, James Howard wrote:


My in-laws’ lot backs up to a “nature preserve” in a city nearby us.  
They used to have coyotes in the back yard all the time.  The 
neighbors started complaining to the city because all their cats were 
disappearing.  One neighbor had their black lab mauled by the coyotes 
and the next house down had their little puff-ball dog eaten by them. 
They made enough stink after that to get the city to hire someone to 
come in and shoot them with tranquilizers and take them away (the 
coyotes, not the neighbors).  I don’t think they’ve seen any behind 
their house since then.


*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 1:22 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Coyotes around here come close to the houses and try to lure the 
domestic dogs to join their pack. I'm sure that would go well.


bp


On 4/20/2020 11:17 AM, James Howard wrote:

You could record that from my back deck most nights of the week.
 Thankfully they don’t seem to come close to our buildings for
some reason.  My neighbor said he got a pic of 12 of them eating
an adult deer about half way down his driveway a couple of years
ago.  We never knew if the deer was hit by a car (it was about
1/8 mile from the road) or if the coyotes actually killed it.
Didn’t seem to worry  them at all that his dobermans were
standing by the edge of their fence (buried wire) barking at them
about 50’ away.

*From:*AF [mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 11:13 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com 
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

We got this at 20:00 last night.

bp



  


On 4/20/2020 9:07 AM, Adam Moffett wrote:

Why are we mooing?

Can I cluck like a chicken instead?

On 4/20/2020 12:05 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
 wrote:

Moo

*From:*castarritt .

*Sent:*Monday, April 20, 2020 10:04 AM

*To:*AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

It's looking like the doctors have come up with
reasonably effective treatment methods, so I bet we will
slowly relax social distancing in an attempt to cause a
controlled spread that won't overwhelm the healthcare
industry too much, but eventually cause enough people to
catch the virus that we develop herd immunity.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 10:49 AM Mike Hammett
mailto:af...@ics-il.net>> wrote:

I think double or even triple bumps are
inevitable  without China-level lock-downs or
vaccines.



-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions 


Midwest Internet Exchange 


The Brothers WISP 








*From: *ch...@wbmfg.com 
*To: *"AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group"
mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
*Sent: *Monday, April 20, 2020 10:44:50 AM
*Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and
optimism

Unless we relax and get a double bump.

*From:*ch...@wbmfg.com 

*Sent:*Monday, April 20, 2020 9:44 AM

*To:*'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'

*Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

I look at the curve and say we are half over.

*From:*Ken Hohhof

*Sent:*Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM

Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

And it went from winter of 1917 through summer in 1918 with summer 1917 
almost dying away due to better results in warm weather than Covid-19.  
The burst back in 1918 was apparently pretty nasty..


On 4/20/20 4:51 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
Just look at the Spanish flu curves.  They had no vaccine.  They 
conquered it by quarantine and social distancing.

*From:* Robert
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 5:37 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
Then you don't understand social distancing and herd immunity.   This 
is just moving the infection rate out into the future spread over a 
much longer range.   We still get infected to 70-80% before herd 
immunity kicks in about 2-3 months _before_ the current schedule of 
vaccine availability.   1/2 over will be 3-4 months from now.  Now if 
someone comes out with a vaccine, different ball game.   Oh and the 
ebola anti-viral...  Gilead is testing with the best case possible 
patients.   And results so far don't show anything better with those 
cases than leaving the patients alone.   Sounds like Gilead is doing 
everything they can to make it sound like their stuff is a winner 
without actually proving it...


On 4/20/20 8:44 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

I look at the curve and say we are half over.
*From:* Ken Hohhof
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
*To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at 
that curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably 
dominated by the early hit densely populated areas like New York, 
where they are still only slightly off the peak death rate and are 
still piling bodies in refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the 
nursing homes and prisons.  It hasn’t even begun to sweep over the 
less dense areas with no hospitals, that will be the long tail of the 
curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up and brought a big second wave.


Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, 
dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting 
their families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, 
we aren’t going to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that 
job long term, even if they don’t get sick and die?  As various 
people have pointed out, this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t 
asked to put their family’s lives at risk.


*From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

image


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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Not that it matters, but where does 2 months come from?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/1-billion-bet-pharma-giant-and-us-go
vernment-team-all-out-coronavirus-vaccine-push

 

(And I hope someone is setting up to manufacture 1 billion syringes.)

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 6:44 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

 

J&J is proclaiming LOUDLY that they will have 1 Billion doses of vaccine in
2 months.  But it won't be available to administer until testing completes
in January.  So IF that vaccine completes testing _successfully_ ( big IF ).
They will be ready for world innoculation ( and they say at no profit ) in
January.

On 4/20/20 9:33 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

What are the treatments that are now working?  I try to be optimistic about
antivirals and convalescent plasma, but right now they mainly have
ventilators, which honestly aren't very successful if 70-80% of the people
die.  They keep doing that because it's the textbook therapy for respiratory
distress, but it ain't working.  Even if it were working, ventilators are
not a treatment, they don't reverse the disease, they are just a measure to
get you oxygen while your body hopefully fights the infection.  And then you
have the people experiencing kidney failure and needing dialysis, they're
not sure if the damage is permanent.

 

I hope you're right that the medical community has learned how to treat it,
but I haven't heard the evidence for that.

 

Regarding a vaccine, one interesting piece of information I read was that
even if they develop a successful and safe vaccine (many challenges
including the sensitization problem), then they have to scale up vaccine
production.  Right now most vaccines are just for each new wave of
schoolchildren, this would have to be for the entire population.  And not in
chicken eggs, it would have to be in big vats.  And the interesting part is
they could repurpose fermentation tanks used for things like brewing beer.

 

 

From: AF    On
Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 11:20 AM
To: af@af.afmug.com  
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

 

Time will tell based on whether it actually starts declining in a meaningful
way, or whether we're going to bump along for a bit. Remember, the goal was
to flatten the curve; it wasn't necessarily going to reduce the number of
infections. I get the impression that the medical community has learned a
lot about how to actually treat it. 

Let's see where we are a week from today (April 27). If we are over 1
million infections, this may be going a while yet. If it is under 1 million,
I would be more encouraged.

bp

 

On 4/20/2020 8:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com   wrote:

Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...

 












 

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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

2020-04-20 Thread Chuck McCown

The main curves were similar to what we are seeing.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 20, 2020, at 6:02 PM, Robert  wrote:
> 
>  And it went from winter of 1917 through summer in 1918 with summer 1917 
> almost dying away due to better results in warm weather than Covid-19.  The 
> burst back in 1918 was apparently pretty nasty..
> 
> On 4/20/20 4:51 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>> Just look at the Spanish flu curves.  They had no vaccine.  They conquered 
>> it by quarantine and social distancing. 
>>  
>> From: Robert
>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 5:37 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>  
>> Then you don't understand social distancing and herd immunity.   This is 
>> just moving the infection rate out into the future spread over a much longer 
>> range.   We still get infected to 70-80% before herd immunity kicks in about 
>> 2-3 months _before_ the current schedule of vaccine availability.   1/2 over 
>> will be 3-4 months from now.  Now if someone comes out with a vaccine, 
>> different ball game.   Oh and the ebola anti-viral...  Gilead is testing 
>> with the best case possible patients.   And results so far don't show 
>> anything better with those cases than leaving the patients alone.   Sounds 
>> like Gilead is doing everything they can to make it sound like their stuff 
>> is a winner without actually proving it...
>> 
>> On 4/20/20 8:44 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>> I look at the curve and say we are half over. 
>>>  
>>> From: Ken Hohhof
>>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
>>> To: 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>>  
>>> That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that 
>>> curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by 
>>> the early hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still 
>>> only slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in 
>>> refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It 
>>> hasn’t even begun to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals, 
>>> that will be the long tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up 
>>> and brought a big second wave.
>>>  
>>> Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying, 
>>> dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their 
>>> families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t 
>>> going to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term, 
>>> even if they don’t get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out, 
>>> this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s 
>>> lives at risk.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
>>> Sent: Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>>>  
>>> Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...
>>>  
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> AF mailing list
>>> AF@af.afmug.com
>>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [AFMUG] 5.9 STA

has anyone put together a tutorial


On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 4:47 PM Gilbert Gutierrez <
mailing-li...@phxinternet.com> wrote:

> Those of you that applied...What schedules did you attach to your 601
> application? There is a lot with the application and being able to
> narrow it down would be a help.
>
> Gilbert
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

2020-04-20 Thread Robert Andrews

President of J&J on today show I think a week ago ( time is getting very
weird these days )

On 04/20/2020 05:03 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

Not that it matters, but where does 2 months come from?

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/1-billion-bet-pharma-giant-and-us-government-team-all-out-coronavirus-vaccine-push

(And I hope someone is setting up to manufacture 1 billion syringes.)

*From:* AF *On Behalf Of *Robert
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 6:44 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

J&J is proclaiming LOUDLY that they will have 1 Billion doses of vaccine
in 2 months. But it won't be available to administer until testing
completes in January. So IF that vaccine completes testing
_successfully_ ( big IF ). They will be ready for world innoculation (
and they say at no profit ) in January.

On 4/20/20 9:33 AM, Ken Hohhof wrote:

What are the treatments that are now working? I try to be
optimistic about antivirals and convalescent plasma, but right now
they mainly have ventilators, which honestly aren’t very successful
if 70-80% of the people die. They keep doing that because it’s the
textbook therapy for respiratory distress, but it ain’t working.
Even if it were working, ventilators are not a treatment, they don’t

reverse the disease, they are just a measure to get you oxygen while
your body hopefully fights the infection. And then you have the
people experiencing kidney failure and needing dialysis, they’re not
sure if the damage is permanent.

I hope you’re right that the medical community has learned how to
treat it, but I haven’t heard the evidence for that.

Regarding a vaccine, one interesting piece of information I read was
that even if they develop a successful and safe vaccine (many
challenges including the sensitization problem), then they have to
scale up vaccine production. Right now most vaccines are just for
each new wave of schoolchildren, this would have to be for the
entire population. And not in chicken eggs, it would have to be in
big vats. And the interesting part is they could repurpose
fermentation tanks used for things like brewing beer.

*From:* AF
*On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 11:20 AM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

Time will tell based on whether it actually starts declining in a
meaningful way, or whether we're going to bump along for a bit.
Remember, the goal was to flatten the curve; it wasn't necessarily
going to reduce the number of infections. I get the impression that
the medical community has learned a lot about how to actually treat it.

Let's see where we are a week from today (April 27). If we are over
1 million infections, this may be going a while yet. If it is under
1 million, I would be more encouraged.

On 4/20/2020 8:20 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Looks a bit Gaussian to me. I hope...

image

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Re: [AFMUG] Dark Fiber Pricing

2020-04-20 Thread Chris Fabien

I think a yearly maintenance fee is the typical arrangement but have also
heard of a strand leesee or maybe IRU owner needing to share a portion of
the costs for, say, a cable relocation due to road widening. All depends on
the agreement in place.

You can also expect to pay their splicer each time you need to access a
strand. Sometimes those costs can be reasonable and sometimes they can be
ridiculous.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020, 3:21 PM Nate Burke  wrote:

> I'm not in the dark fiber game, but what do you mean by 'per-event'
> billing?  Like if there's a fiber cut, you're responsible for part of the
> repair cost?  Or is that for like accessing the electronics on the ends of
> the fiber.
>
> On 4/20/2020 2:10 PM, Chris Fabien wrote:
>
> Those seem like fair rates, is that all inclusive or will you also get
> billed for maintenance annually or per-event?
>
> On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 2:44 PM Jeremy Grip  wrote:
>
>> Can anybody give me an idea of reasonable dark fiber pricing per strand
>> mile? I’m trying to figure out if the rates Vermont asks for state-owned
>> fiber are reasonable, see the attached.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jeremy Grip, LTLOP (long time lurker, occasional poster)
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>
>
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism

they went through three seasons of it, the lady with fauci even talked
about it a couple weeks ago. takes three seasons for the herd to have
sufficient natural immunity.

On Mon, Apr 20, 2020 at 7:21 PM Chuck McCown  wrote:

> The main curves were similar to what we are seeing.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Apr 20, 2020, at 6:02 PM, Robert  wrote:
>
>  And it went from winter of 1917 through summer in 1918 with summer 1917
> almost dying away due to better results in warm weather than Covid-19.  The
> burst back in 1918 was apparently pretty nasty..
>
> On 4/20/20 4:51 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Just look at the Spanish flu curves.  They had no vaccine.  They conquered
> it by quarantine and social distancing.
>
> *From:* Robert
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 5:37 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
> Then you don't understand social distancing and herd immunity.   This is
> just moving the infection rate out into the future spread over a much
> longer range.   We still get infected to 70-80% before herd immunity kicks
> in about 2-3 months _before_ the current schedule of vaccine
> availability.   1/2 over will be 3-4 months from now.  Now if someone comes
> out with a vaccine, different ball game.   Oh and the ebola anti-viral...
> Gilead is testing with the best case possible patients.   And results so
> far don't show anything better with those cases than leaving the patients
> alone.   Sounds like Gilead is doing everything they can to make it sound
> like their stuff is a winner without actually proving it...
>
> On 4/20/20 8:44 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> I look at the curve and say we are half over.
>
> *From:* Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 9:33 AM
> *To:* 'AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group'
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
>
> That probably is (modestly) good news.  But how anyone can look at that
> curve and say it’s over, I don’t know.  That curve is probably dominated by
> the early hit densely populated areas like New York, where they are still
> only slightly off the peak death rate and are still piling bodies in
> refrigerated trucks at hospitals.  And the nursing homes and prisons.  It
> hasn’t even begun to sweep over the less dense areas with no hospitals,
> that will be the long tail of the curve.  Then we find out if we screwed up
> and brought a big second wave.
>
>
>
> Very worrisome is the healthcare workers getting infected and dying,
> dealing with patients dying on every shift, worrying about infecting their
> families.  If this is still coming in waves 1-2 years from now, we aren’t
> going to have any doctors and nurses.  Who would do that job long term,
> even if they don’t get sick and die?  As various people have pointed out,
> this may be a war, but even soldiers aren’t asked to put their family’s
> lives at risk.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Monday, April 20, 2020 10:21 AM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism
>
>
>
> Looks a bit Gaussian to me.  I hope...
>
>
>
> 
>
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Re: [AFMUG] OT still a bit of hope and optimism