Naomi, plenty of people were on the thread, you called out the behavior, we aren't going to pile on. You will note, however, that I I posted the first reply and tried to call our the bias in the individuals initial mail. It is unfair to claim I'm somehow singling you out. I am *not* singling you out. I am merely someone brave/stupid enough to call out that it is not just people who identify as a majority participant that contribute to a lack of inclusivity. Normally I would let it slide, but for this initiative on this list to succeed we all have to assume that anyone coming here has good intentions. We have to listen and we have to reason. We might just manage to sew a seed, we might even create a new champion for D&I. But, if we drive them away with whipmarks across their backs we don't move forwards.
Think about this, on this list I am in the minority. It is hard for me, and people like me here. I know I'm going to mess up. Don't punish me for it. Don't assume the worst. I'm getting hammered from both sides for trying to do what *you* are telling me is the best way to get results. Do you really want to drive everyone like me away or do you want to take the opportunity to help me help you? Ross ________________________________ From: Naomi Slater <n...@tumbolia.org> Sent: Friday, May 10, 2019 4:21 PM To: diversity@apache.org Subject: Re: Diversity in a diverse world Ross, Geertjan’s “humor” was racist, transsexist, and disrespectful. mine was deserved, after a long thread of him engaging in bad faith. so no, they are not comparable and my joke was certainly not “as” unnecessary/unhelpful frankly, I am sororities you can’t discern the difference here and once again you have chosen to admonished *me* on list instead of the people who are clearly trolling, engaging in bad faith, or otherwise trying to frustrate our efforts On Sat 11. May 2019 at 01:17, Ross Gardler <ross.gard...@microsoft.com.invalid> wrote: > Naomi, > > That is as unnecessary and as unhelpful as the "humor" you (rightly) > pulled Geertjan up on earlier. Lets hold everyone to the same standard. > > Ross > > ________________________________ > From: Naomi Slater <n...@tumbolia.org> > Sent: Friday, May 10, 2019 3:30 PM > To: diversity@apache.org > Subject: Re: Diversity in a diverse world > > productive thread after all > > On Sat 11. May 2019 at 00:28, Geertjan Wielenga <geert...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > While you all struggle to figure out how unconscious bias works in > relation > > to trans women in on-line communities where no one has a clue about > whether > > someone is a trans woman, I'm now actually physically going to > unsubscribe > > from this mailing list. > > > > Gj > > > > On Sat, May 11, 2019 at 12:02 AM Shane Curcuru <a...@shanecurcuru.org> > > wrote: > > > > > Mark Thomas wrote on 5/10/19 4:22 PM: > > > > On 10/05/2019 20:55, Geertjan Wielenga wrote: > > > >> Yes, I have a lot to learn — for example, I don’t know nor care > about > > > the > > > >> sexual or gender orientation of anyone in the Apache community where > > I’m > > > >> focused on: Apache NetBeans. > > > >> > > > >> Can you simply explain why any of this matters, when I cannot > possibly > > > >> discriminate against anyone’s sexual or gender orientation since > code > > > and > > > >> coding do not reflect or express these orientations in any way > > > > > > True, but code is not the most important question: community is. It's > a > > > cornerstone of the Apache Way, and is both a widely used catchphrase > > > across the ASF as well as being specifically documented: > > > > > > > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.apache.org%2Ftheapacheway%2Findex.html&data=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C2bdb7b76308d43936afb08d6d59e37e6%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1&sdata=l3Jy3DnVLkH717CH9g60YmrBzbqWqhtGOokBi7%2FbWo4%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > If all contributions at the ASF were anonymous that would be true. > But > > > > they are not. > > > > > > Project communities are made of of people. Long-term project longevity > > > relies on attracting new people to contribute to our projects: yes, > they > > > bring code, but they also improve the community. > > > > > > > A couple of things to consider: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Ftechnology%2F2016%2Ffeb%2F12%2Fwomen-considered-better-coders-hide-gender-github&data=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C2bdb7b76308d43936afb08d6d59e37e6%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1&sdata=tYJyRiy7FHu8OrwnnBMatIiigJNjLG1u0C4oJFZnQNE%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > The underlying study from 2016 is thorough and has disappointing data: > > > > > > > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpeerj.com%2Farticles%2Fcs-111%2F&data=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C2bdb7b76308d43936afb08d6d59e37e6%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1&sdata=t14b0Xanif3aMS1ehm14nrS%2BVx1gEI39OLE3UfTiFSw%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > > Google "Unconscious bias" > > > > > > A great Monktoberfest conference talk addressed this very same issue - > > > in a small scale, but with some very specific results: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DoJ17en7-MwY%26list%3DPLvsKqlNNP3R8HobEa53Noe7xcDJFg0dop%26index%3D5&data=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C2bdb7b76308d43936afb08d6d59e37e6%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1&sdata=m3ES9fb5L0vFjdpT6pB7rFZbRkPu%2BOMCZfWOG2bE5AA%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > ...snip... > > > > I don't want anyone to feel unwelcome at the ASF. If there are > things I > > > > can do to make other people feel more welcome then I want to find out > > > > about them. > > > > > > Bonus Monktoberfest talk I found useful: Better Living Through Empathy > > > > > > > https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DqcpVs-7d6Ys&data=01%7C01%7CRoss.Gardler%40microsoft.com%7C2bdb7b76308d43936afb08d6d59e37e6%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1&sdata=19ZI5oOW3LtXtWf0tzfvABTzXR0RIwHxD1UgiQRr%2B2A%3D&reserved=0 > > > > > > -- > > > > > > - Shane > > > Member > > > The Apache Software Foundation > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: diversity-unsubscr...@apache.org > > > For additional commands, e-mail: diversity-h...@apache.org > > > > > > > > >
