Matt,
I feel it's worth mentioning that on two floors of the building, the
only metallic pipe is ± 25' of Schedule 10, and then in transitions to
CPVC.
When I expressed the need for venting on those floors, the response was
similar to "Nobody else makes us do that!"
I still believe that a means to vent that short segment of steel should
be provided. Absent any code/standard guidance to the contrary I'm
maintaining that position.
sincerely,
*Ken Wagoner, SET*
*Parsley Consulting
500 West Mechanic Street
Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235*
*Phone: (760) 745-6181 *
*Visit the website
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1>*
On 10/10/2023 5:58 AM, [email protected] wrote:
To answer your question Todd,
The SYSTEM is required to be vented each time the system is drained
and refilled.
The check valve or physics do not come into play.
The 2-story example you provided is only one System. Therefore, if
drained, then refilled, it would be the entirety of the System.
Separate Control valves and a drain indicate that only that system
would be drained then refilled.
It is about corrosion and not drifting air bubbles.
Now, to Taylor’s point about CPVC, what if following the control
valve, there is 1 foot of SCH10 pipe, then a transition.
Accordig to the book, steel piping is present. So, a vent is required.
R/
Matt
A.16.7
<https://link.nfpa.org/publications/13/2022/chapters/16#ID000130006575>
A manual or automatic air venting valve can be a reasonable approach
on wet pipe sprinkler systems to reduce corrosion activity. The
purpose of the air venting valve is to exhaust as much trapped air as
possible from a single location every time the system is filled. The
objective of venting is to reduce the amount of oxygen trapped in the
system that will fuel corrosion and microbial activity. It is neither
the intent nor practical to exhaust all trapped air from a single
location on a wet pipe sprinkler system; however, more than one vent
can be used on a system at the designer's discretion. Interconnection
of branch line piping for venting purposes is not necessary. An
inspector's test valve can serve this purpose.
The air venting valve should be located where it will be most
effective. System piping layout will guide the designer in choosing an
effective location for venting. In order to effectively accomplish
venting, it is necessary to choose a location where the greatest
volume of trapped air is vented during the first fill and each
subsequent drain and fill event. The vent connection to the system
should be located off the top of horizontal piping at a high point in
the system; however, the vent connection can also be effectively
located off the side of a riser or riser nipple at a high point in the
system.
Manual air venting valves should be accessible. The manual air venting
valve should be located at an accessible point and preferably not over
7 ft (2.1 m) above the floor. Automatic air valves are not required to
comply with the accessibility requirement of manual air venting
valves; however, it is recommended the designer locate automatic air
vents over areas without ceilings, above a lay-in ceiling, or above an
access panel.
Each wet pipe sprinkler system should be vented every time the system
is filled.
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*Engineering Manager – Southwest Region*
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*From:* Ken Wagoner <[email protected]>
*Sent:* Monday, October 9, 2023 7:26 PM
*To:* [email protected]
*Subject:* [Sprinklerforum] Re: Air venting
I understand and agree Todd, before I shot my mouth of to the layout
tech I wanted to make sure I was headed in the right direction.
Thank you!
*Ken Wagoner, SET*
*Parsley Consulting
500 West Mechanic Street
Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235*
*Phone: (760) 745-6181 *
*Visit the website
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1>*
On 10/9/2023 11:27 AM, Fpdcdesign wrote:
Ken, I think you would have to with the check valve. I would push
back a little in that by adding a normally open valve and a flow
switch or manifold would not change the physics of the system
enough to warrant the additional vents. If you had a 2 story
building without zone valves, you would only need one vent.
However, if you add normally open valves and flow switches, you
would now need 2 (or 3?). From the standpoint of physics, why?
Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 <tel:860-535-2080> (ofc)
860-554-7054 <tel:860-554-7054> (fax)
860-608-4559 <tel:860-608-4559> (cell)
On Oct 9, 2023 at 12:06 PM, <Ken Wagoner
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Yes, Todd, on each floor, as they're using a Victaulic UMC
manifold which includes a check valve.
thanks for the information,
*Ken Wagoner, SET*
*Parsley Consulting
500 West Mechanic Street
Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235*
*Phone: (760) 745-6181 *
*Visit the website
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1>*
On 10/9/2023 10:49 AM, Fpdcdesign wrote:
Is there a check valve on the floor control assembly?
Todd G Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860-535-2080 <tel:860-535-2080> (ofc)
860-554-7054 <tel:860-554-7054> (fax)
860-608-4559 <tel:860-608-4559> (cell)
On Oct 9, 2023 at 11:44 AM, <Ken Wagoner
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Forumites,
I'm working on a multi-story building protected per
NFPA 13. As each floor has a separate control valve,
is a means to vent trapped air required on each floor?
Or is it only required at the highest level of the
building?
My thinking is that each floor has a separate fire
sprinklers system.
Any thoughts?
*Ken Wagoner, SET*
*Parsley Consulting
500 West Mechanic Street
Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235*
*Phone: (760) 745-6181 *
*Visit the website
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1>*
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