[O-T]: Re: menu structure

2008-11-15 Thread Christian Ridderström
On Sun, 16 Nov 2008, Konrad Hofbauer wrote: Christian Ridderström wrote: > Cheers, > Konrad (off for lunch to Quantum) Way late, but... was that the restaurant at KTH, Stockholm? Indeed. I am still at S3. Small world (I did my PhD there). Wonder how LyX users there are at KTH these day

Re: menu structure

2008-11-15 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Christian Ridderström wrote: Cheers, Konrad (off for lunch to Quantum) Way late, but... was that the restaurant at KTH, Stockholm? Indeed. I am still at S3. /Konrad

Re: menu structure

2008-11-15 Thread Christian Ridderström
Cheers, Konrad (off for lunch to Quantum) Way late, but... was that the restaurant at KTH, Stockholm? /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: menu structure

2008-09-26 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
general, I think we should be careful about changing the menu structure, and also that we should have good reasons for the changes. In a perfect world, we'd even document _why_ we do the changes. It will need a VERY detailed WHY, to get any approval/consensus even here on the devel-list, only

Re: menu structure

2008-09-26 Thread Christian Ridderström
careful about changing the menu structure, and also that we should have good reasons for the changes. In a perfect world, we'd even document _why_ we do the changes. I haven't followed this thread, so the following idea has probably already been raised, but just in case it hasn't: I

Re: menu structure

2008-09-26 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Christian Ridderström wrote: Having said the above and sounding negative, No, not at all!!! A different perspective ... I think it's great that you are looking at menu structure in a structured way! I (sort of) came to the conclusion though that it is too late for 1.6 anyhow (espec

Re: menu structure

2008-09-25 Thread Christian Ridderström
so the use case isn't that uncommon.) Having said the above and sounding negative, I think it's great that you are looking at menu structure in a structured way! /Christian -- Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: menu structure

2008-09-25 Thread Helge Hafting
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Can you point to a program where _all_ document-level settings are in File menu? We shall not over-interpret the HIG. I do not have much to compare to by hand, only OO 2.3 and Word 2003. Word 2003 has the Page Setup in File, OO has "Properti

Re: menu structure

2008-09-25 Thread Helge Hafting
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: Edwin (and others), great thanks for starting to work on this! I have a number of suggestions for changes, strictly based on the HIG [1] (except those sentences starting with IMO). If something is left open by the HIG, I refer to what I assume are applications that well

Re: menu structure

2008-09-18 Thread cmiramon
> Format. Probably at the top. > +1

Re: menu structure

2008-09-18 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: > Example: The document settings do not apply to the whole book if I click > onto Document Settings while I am in a child document - something that > is not obvious. Right. However, there are cases where you want to have different settings in a child document (if you compil

Re: menu structure

2008-09-18 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Can you please (honestly) explain this distinction to me (or define)? I feel like I am missing something here ... I didn't follow this exact discussion, but if you think of a book that consists of a master file and several childs, the document would be the whole (the

Re: menu structure

2008-09-18 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: > Pavel Sanda wrote: > > just to give some feedback the file/document distinction to me as a user > > is quite clear > > Can you please (honestly) explain this distinction to me (or define)? > I feel like I am missing something here ... I didn't follow this exact discussion,

Re: menu structure

2008-09-18 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
Konrad Hofbauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: >> This is why, while I really dislike things like Document settings in >> File menu, I am a bit embarrassed to criticize you choices. But I'll >> find a way around it ;) [*] > > If we assume (for a moment) that there is no D

Re: menu structure

2008-09-18 Thread rgheck
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: This is why, while I really dislike things like Document settings in File menu, I am a bit embarrassed to criticize you choices. But I'll find a way around it ;) [*] If we assume (for a moment) that there is no Document-menu, where would you

Re: menu structure

2008-09-18 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: This is why, while I really dislike things like Document settings in File menu, I am a bit embarrassed to criticize you choices. But I'll find a way around it ;) [*] If we assume (for a moment) that there is no Document-menu, where would you put the Document Setting

Re: menu structure

2008-09-18 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
Konrad Hofbauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > And my impression from the earlier thread was that we should build > something based on HIGs, e.g., > > JMarc: "the menu structure should be done after > looking at as many HIG and good quality mainstream programs as > po

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Pavel Sanda
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: > Not sure how we proceed from here. hmm if we are in black hole, then lets try to get little back in the discussion. what was the reason to the menu change? imho the fact that users(=we) are discontent with the current menu. so the first thing, the end result has to be s

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread John Levon
On Thu, Sep 18, 2008 at 01:03:38AM +0200, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > 1) The number of items is very big. Do we have any room to grow ? Oowriter > interface is a clone of the old Word interface that was considered a > > 3) There is IMHO useless complexity, like the 7 different preview formats. > I

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread cmiramon
John Levon wrote: > - what the biggest problems are with the current structure Some statistics : first figure is the number of menu items, the second number the total menu + sub-menus + sub-sub-menus items LyX svn blank document with a table File : 17 ; 53 Edit : 17 ; 79 View : 19 ; 55 Insert :

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: I think that either we build something based on likes/dislikes, or something based on HIGs. In the later case, I am happy to be involved, in the earlier case I will not be involved very much (but just as happy). You're right, but: What follow are all very

RE: Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW
> I think that either we build something based on likes/dislikes, > or something based on HIGs. In the later case, I am happy to be > involved, in the earlier case I will not be involved very much > (but just as happy). You're right, but: - In the thread it was also mentioned that we would like

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
I am happy to be involved, in the earlier case I will not be involved very much (but just as happy). And my impression from the earlier thread was that we should build something based on HIGs, e.g., JMarc: "the menu structure should be done after looking at as many HIG and good quality

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Pavel Sanda
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: > Le 17 sept. 08 ? 20:27, Konrad Hofbauer a écrit : >> P.S. On accusing me of fraud / cover up: Have you really worked through >> >> to be able to say so ??? I think it should be enough to support my claims >>

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Pavel Sanda
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: > Pavel Sanda wrote: >> just to give some feedback the file/document distinction to me as a user >> is >> quite clear > > Can you please (honestly) explain this distinction to me (or define)? > I feel like I am missing something here ... i will try. when i go to the file,

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Abdelrazak Younes
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Le 17 sept. 08 à 20:27, Konrad Hofbauer a écrit : P.S. On accusing me of fraud / cover up: Have you really worked through to be able to say so ??? I think it should be enough to support my claims once with a

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
Le 17 sept. 08 à 20:27, Konrad Hofbauer a écrit : P.S. On accusing me of fraud / cover up: Have you really worked through to be able to say so ??? I think it should be enough to support my claims once with a proper reference, and not

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Pavel Sanda wrote: just to give some feedback the file/document distinction to me as a user is quite clear Can you please (honestly) explain this distinction to me (or define)? I feel like I am missing something here ... and adding the items into file menu looks pretty messy. That is anoth

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Pavel Sanda
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: >> Can you point to a program where _all_ document-level settings are in >> File menu? We shall not over-interpret the HIG. > > I do not have much to compare to by hand, only OO 2.3 and Word 2003. > > Word 2003 has the Page Setup in File, OO has "Properties" in File. > Both o

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: > Somewhere else in the File menu: > [File] New Window > [File] Close Window The HIG do not really specify this (I only took that from Firefox and Safari). One could also argue that these two should be in Window. These could be in Document/Tools: [Edit] Spe

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Richard Heck
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: > For example, LyX users are used to having a Document->Settings... Item. >They will be disturbed if they have to look for one of the most important menu items. IMO - no, no, no. If we start to care about legacy, nothing good will come out. And it is worth remembering

RE: Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW
> Sorry (really), can you please tell me (again) which items you don't see fit? These could be in Document/Tools: [Edit] Spellcheck [Edit] Thesaurus [Edit] Change tracking [File] Statistics This one Document/Format: [File] Document Settings Somewhere else in the File menu: [File] New Window [Fil

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: I only reasoned that some of the items did not belong to the place they were put according to the HIG. And to propose something else, I found a common factor and I remembered having a menu in LyX where they might fit in. Sure. Please, be welcome to reason

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Konrad Hofbauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Forgot (sorry for the noise): And both don't have any more document-level settings, as far as I can see. Not a Format>Page, by chance? A tools>Language? In that sense, yes, you are right. The question is what we learn by

RE: Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW
> And I disklike a document-menu: > It breaks the cross-platform HIG concept of File - View - > Window menus, and I do not understand what is the difference > between a file and a document. You may dislike it. I never said it has to be a Document menu; never said that it is very common to have a

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: Well, I just wanted to make a distinction between content-related and content-unrelated items. (And I chose Document, because LyX has already a Document menu and I do care about legacy, see below) The name "Document" does not really transport the notion of "

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread John Levon
NDOW > > menu, and there is a rationale behind it. > > Neither Word, OO or any of my Text-Editors has a Document-menu. > > I would be nice to dig the old thread concerning the current menu > structure. John Levon had a pretty through analysis of Higs at the > time.

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
Konrad Hofbauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Forgot (sorry for the noise): > And both don't have any more document-level settings, as far as I can see. Not a Format>Page, by chance? A tools>Language? JMarc

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
"Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > What if the HIG doesn't have the correct place for these items...? You remove the feature. JMarc

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Konrad Hofbauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Word 2003 has the Page Setup in File, OO has "Properties" in File. Both of them don't have a Document menu. Both have (a Windows-HIG) Tools menu. What is the difference between file and document in the first place ??? I

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
, OpenOffice, Word 2003 (on XP), ... have a View AND a WINDOW > menu, and there is a rationale behind it. > Neither Word, OO or any of my Text-Editors has a Document-menu. I would be nice to dig the old thread concerning the current menu structure. John Levon had a pretty through analysis of Higs at the time. JMarc

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: leuven edwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: collapsed status is also saved in the document (like it or not), so i have put this in the file menu for now I would not do that. File menu is more for physical state of the document (so I guess Compressed can belong there). If y

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
Konrad Hofbauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Word 2003 has the Page Setup in File, OO has "Properties" in File. > Both of them don't have a Document menu. Both have (a Windows-HIG) > Tools menu. > What is the difference between file and document in the first place ??? In OO File>Properties is no

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Can you point to a program where _all_ document-level settings are in File menu? We shall not over-interpret the HIG. I do not have much to compare to by hand, only OO 2.3 and Word 2003. Word 2003 has the Page Setup in File, OO has "Properti

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Can you point to a program where _all_ document-level settings are in File menu? We shall not over-interpret the HIG. I do not have much to compare to by hand, only OO 2.3 and Word 2003. Word 2003 has the Page Setup in File, OO has "Properties" in File. Both of the

RE: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread leuven edwin
> - it is very sneaky to remove the View menu again.. Moving all items > from the Window menu into the View menu would ALSO be an option... not sneaky, i just moved the 2 items in the view menu. the window menu was much fuller so i makes sense not to name it view. of course we could s/window/view

RE: Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW
> > Maybe, it is a HIG interpretation thing, but I'm seriously doubting > > that the HIG says that content-related stuff like the "Document settings..." > > must be in the File menu. > > Correct. (but I still think it is the right place) > > > Things like page setup do not influence the conten

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread lasgouttes
leuven edwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>> collapsed status is also saved in the document (like it or not), so >>> i have put this in the file menu for now >> >> I would not do that. File menu is more for physical state of the >> document (so I guess Compressed can belong there). If you do that,

RE: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread leuven edwin
>> collapsed status is also saved in the document (like it or not), so >> i have put this in the file menu for now > > I would not do that. File menu is more for physical state of the > document (so I guess Compressed can belong there). If you do that, why > not put "Insert Table Float" too??? hey

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
leuven edwin wrote: i like this myself (if I can say that..) I don't. Which HIG does it follow? /Konrad

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
leuven edwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> I did not know that, I see know. It should not be like this >> (i.e. Inset states should be independent in multiple views >> IMO), but this is another topic... > > collapsed status is also saved in the document (like it or not), so > i have put this in th

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
Konrad Hofbauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> For example, LyX users are used to >> having a Document->Settings... Item. They will be disturbed if they have >> to look for one of the most important menu items. > > IMO - no, no, no. If we start to care about legacy, nothing good will > come out. C

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
"Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Maybe, it is a HIG interpretation thing, but I'm seriously doubting that > the HIG says that content-related stuff like the "Document settings..." > must be in the File menu. Things like page setup do not influence the > content of the do

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: - it is very sneaky to remove the View menu again.. Moving all items from the Window menu into the View menu would ALSO be an option... If you propose something like this, then please propose a LyX-Menu-HIG. - The File->New Window and File->Close Window do

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: Maybe, it is a HIG interpretation thing, but I'm seriously doubting that the HIG says that content-related stuff like the "Document settings..." must be in the File menu. Correct. (but I still think it is the right place) Things like page setup do not influ

RE: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW
> as in attached Sort of.. ;-) > i like this myself (if I can say that..) I like it too, but... (just being constructive) - it is very sneaky to remove the View menu again.. Moving all items from the Window menu into the View menu would ALSO be an option... - The File->New Window and File->

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Edwin, "for the sake of hig-ness" - I guess that means I am higgy? Quite possible. :-) About the open/close windows, tabs, etc., and independent of the menue discussion, I don't quite get what does what (esp. the "Close tab group"). Should that not be a simple "Close tab"-functionality?

RE: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread leuven edwin
as in attached menu order: file, edit, format, insert, math, go to, typeset, window, document, application, help toolbars is in application fullscreen in window i like this myself (if I can say that..) hig2.inc Description: hig2.inc hig2.ui Description: hig2.ui

RE: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW
> [4] Our document settings are file-specific parameters, saved with the > document, so it is IMO very similar to the Page Setup-item in the HIG: > Page Setup... . Opens a dialog for specifying printing parameters such > as paper size and printing orientation. These parameters are saved with >

RE: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread leuven edwin
> > but let's see: attached the reworked menu, following most of your suggestions > But there is a View menu everywhere - in the XP HIG, Vista > HIG, Apple HIG, Wordpad, Office 2003, ... so now possibly also soon in lyx... > Don't refuse just because you don't like it. that's what all religiou

Re: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Hi Edwin, thanks for your comments. leuven edwin wrote: konrad wrote: just as a side note; i think it is good to have some directions, but i don't think we should treat the apple hig as the holy bible (personally i like apples, but as a fruit). as i see it many of these ui design decisions

RE: menu structure

2008-09-17 Thread leuven edwin
konrad wrote: > Edwin (and others), > > great thanks for starting to work on this! thanks for having a look as well... > I have a number of suggestions for changes, strictly based on > the HIG [1] (except those sentences starting with IMO). just as a side note; i think it is good to have some di

Re: menu structure

2008-09-16 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: ... [lots of typos and other nonsense] ... Just skimmed over what I wrote, again. I hope I make sense nevertheless ... ;-) Cheers, Konrad

Re: menu structure

2008-09-16 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Edwin (and others), great thanks for starting to work on this! I have a number of suggestions for changes, strictly based on the HIG [1] (except those sentences starting with IMO). If something is left open by the HIG, I refer to what I assume are applications that well consider the HIG, name

Re: menu structure

2008-09-16 Thread Abdelrazak Younes
leuven edwin wrote: pavel wrote: isn't possible somehow to get navigation panel and viewing source items together? its a different logic, but my brain somehow search for the floating dialogs on the same place and maybe i'm not alone. in the attached they are both in the window menu

RE: menu structure

2008-09-16 Thread leuven edwin
pavel wrote: > isn't possible somehow to get navigation panel and viewing > source items together? its a different logic, but my brain > somehow search for the floating dialogs on the same place and > maybe i'm not alone. in the attached they are both in the window menu i moved the open/close all

RE: menu structure

2008-09-16 Thread Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW
> leuven edwin wrote: > > updated version attached (and got rid of the tools menu) > > > > did not look at the shortcuts yet... > > isn't possible somehow to get navigation panel and viewing > source items together? its a different logic, but my brain > somehow search for the floating dialogs on

Re: menu structure

2008-09-16 Thread Pavel Sanda
leuven edwin wrote: > updated version attached (and got rid of the tools menu) > > did not look at the shortcuts yet... isn't possible somehow to get navigation panel and viewing source items together? its a different logic, but my brain somehow search for the floating dialogs on the same place a

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-04 Thread Abdelrazak Younes
Bo Peng wrote: Except that this is 'info-insert', it works that way indeed. Still, the possibility to correct/modify the argument should be allowed IMO. A bit like it is done for the math macro. This feature was designed for document maintainers, so userfriendliness was not among the desi

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Bo Peng
> Except that this is 'info-insert', it works that way indeed. Still, the > possibility to correct/modify the argument should be allowed IMO. A bit like > it is done for the math macro. This feature was designed for document maintainers, so userfriendliness was not among the design goals. >> I d

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Abdelrazak Younes
Bo Peng wrote: AFAICS, it is not possible to select something inside and InsetInfo. It is also not possible to modify the argument of the InsetInfo. When I type 'inset-insert' in the command buffer followed by enter, I see a red box 'Unknown Info: ' and the cursor is left outside. You sho

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Bo Peng
> AFAICS, it is not possible to select something inside and InsetInfo. It is > also not possible to modify the argument of the InsetInfo. When I type > 'inset-insert' in the command buffer followed by enter, I see a red box > 'Unknown Info: ' and the cursor is left outside. You should type things

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Abdelrazak Younes
Bo Peng wrote: Right. I think InsetInfo should generate this LateX code directly. The intermediate LyX format is not really necessary. It only makes sense for this particular type of InsetInfo. For others, InsetInfo produces a sequences of readonly text and insets so users can select and c

Re: LyX Menu Structure

2008-06-03 Thread Bo Peng
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 9:55 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bo Peng wrote: >> I do not see any trouble in this approach. > > Except that it makes maintenance a bit more difficult, if every new function > will have to be added to 3 menu files. Even with our two files now, new > f

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Bo Peng
> Right. I think InsetInfo should generate this LateX code directly. The > intermediate LyX format is not really necessary. It only makes sense for this particular type of InsetInfo. For others, InsetInfo produces a sequences of readonly text and insets so users can select and copy part of the co

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Abdelrazak Younes
Bo Peng wrote: Not necessarily. We can add Painter::icon() method to the painter interface. The magic behind InsetInfo is that 1. This inset holds which information to display 2. During InsetInfo::update(), InsetInfo produces the right LyX structure (text or other insets). 3. These genera

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Bo Peng
>> The gain is that the file is determined at runtime. When the ui >> changes (with icon change), there is no need to update our documents >> for it. >> > > This is independent from the inset solution. Our documents use InsetGraphics with files such as ../images/math/matrix.xpm. This is platform

Re: LyX Menu Structure

2008-06-03 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller
Bo Peng wrote: > I do not see any trouble in this approach. Except that it makes maintenance a bit more difficult, if every new function will have to be added to 3 menu files. Even with our two files now, new features have often been forgotten to be added to classic.ui. So it only works if thes

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Bo Peng
> Not necessarily. We can add Painter::icon() method to the painter interface. The magic behind InsetInfo is that 1. This inset holds which information to display 2. During InsetInfo::update(), InsetInfo produces the right LyX structure (text or other insets). 3. These generated text and insets a

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Abdelrazak Younes
Bo Peng wrote: I think that if we do that, then there is no gain with this inset. The gain is that the file is determined at runtime. When the ui changes (with icon change), there is no need to update our documents for it. This is independent from the inset solution. Either we ma

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Bo Peng
> I think that if we do that, then there is no gain with this inset. The gain is that the file is determined at runtime. When the ui changes (with icon change), there is no need to update our documents for it. > Either we manage to display natively the icon through InsetInfo > (meaning it is fast

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Abdelrazak Younes
Jean-Marc Lasgouttes wrote: Abdelrazak Younes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Side note: this is one of my older todo list item but Menu and Toolbar items should someday be unified. There is an Action class already that is used indifferently by Menus and Toolbars, we should generalize this conce

Re: LyX Menu Structure

2008-06-03 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Bo Peng wrote: 1) Platform-dependent 2) A compromise (=mix) between different HIG 3) Stick to one platform HIG, give a sh.. about the others 4) Do nothing. Each has pros and cons. I would be for 1) if somebody is willing to create the necessary infrastructure in terms of documentation, an for 2

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Abdelrazak Younes
Bo Peng wrote: I am in the process of adding INFO_SHORTCUTS, adding INFO_ICON should be straightforward. Except that the icon shall be displayed as a graphics, a bit like what InsetGraphics does, but without the delayed loading (especially if we can get the QImage from the toolbar code).

Re: LyX Menu Structure

2008-06-03 Thread Bo Peng
> 1) Platform-dependent > 2) A compromise (=mix) between different HIG > 3) Stick to one platform HIG, give a sh.. about the others > 4) Do nothing. > > Each has pros and cons. > > I would be for 1) if somebody is willing to create the necessary > infrastructure in terms of documentation, an for 2)

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
"Bo Peng" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > We are inserting something to the LyX document, so InsetGraphics has > to be used. What we need to do is insert > /usr/local/share/lyx/images/blah.png (platform dependent) when > InsetInfo::update() is called. I think that if we do that, then there is no ga

Re: LyX Menu Structure

2008-06-03 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Konrad Hofbauer wrote: 1) Platform-dependent 2) A compromise (=mix) between different HIG 3) Stick to one platform HIG, give a sh.. about the others 4) Do nothing. ... > I do not think 2) is users-list-wise such a big issue as long as we keep the names of the menu-entries the same (e.g. "Reco

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Bo Peng
>> I am in the process of adding INFO_SHORTCUTS, adding INFO_ICON should >> be straightforward. > > Except that the icon shall be displayed as a graphics, a bit like what > InsetGraphics does, but without the delayed loading (especially if we > can get the QImage from the toolbar code). We are ins

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
Abdelrazak Younes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Side note: this is one of my older todo list item but Menu and Toolbar > items should someday be unified. There is an Action class already that > is used indifferently by Menus and Toolbars, we should generalize this > concept and provified an unifie

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Jean-Marc Lasgouttes
"Bo Peng" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> This mechanism exists in 1.6 for bindings and menus. It would be nice >> to know how well it works in practice, though. What is still missing >> is icons. > > What would you use to specify an ICON? I guess InsetInfo::INFO_ICON lfunc? Yes. And make sure it

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Abdelrazak Younes
Bo Peng wrote: This mechanism exists in 1.6 for bindings and menus. It would be nice to know how well it works in practice, though. What is still missing is icons. What would you use to specify an ICON? I guess InsetInfo::INFO_ICON lfunc? I am in the process of adding INFO_SHORTCUTS, addi

Re: LyX Menu Structure

2008-06-03 Thread Konrad Hofbauer
Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: I don't think a mix of different guidelines is what we want. In such a case, rather change it to the Mac HIG for the Mac people, and leave it for Linux as is. I have a rather strong believe that we have four exclusive options and should decide on one and strictly fol

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ?

2008-06-03 Thread Bo Peng
> This mechanism exists in 1.6 for bindings and menus. It would be nice > to know how well it works in practice, though. What is still missing > is icons. What would you use to specify an ICON? I guess InsetInfo::INFO_ICON lfunc? I am in the process of adding INFO_SHORTCUTS, adding INFO_ICON shou

Re: LyX Menu Structure

2008-06-03 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller
Bennett Helm wrote: > Seriously, if there's no agreement on changing the status quo here, the > status quo wins. And vice versa, of course. I'm just stating my personal options. Jürgen

Re: LyX Menu Structure

2008-06-03 Thread Bennett Helm
On Tue, Jun 3, 2008 at 8:20 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Bennett Helm wrote: > > Naturally all of these suggestions won't be > > acceptable precisely because, as you say, Linux and Windows users have > > different guidelines. But I think it's worth looking at it and thinking

Re: LyX Menu Structure

2008-06-03 Thread rgheck
Bennett Helm wrote: * Shouldn't bundling/compression menu items go with save menu items? There's actually a bug report about this somewhere. rh

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ? [Was: LyX Menu Structure]

2008-06-03 Thread rgheck
Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Konrad Hofbauer wrote: I fully agree to that. And it is the same with Shell vs. GNOME vs. KDE vs. Windows vs. Mac vs. ... And I believe that in a menu structure discussion most likes and dis-likes would be because what one is used to on "his" platform.

Re: Platform-dependent Menu Structure ? [Was: LyX Menu Structure]

2008-06-03 Thread Bennett Helm
> Also, we should not follow our intuition alone, but some Human Interface >>> Guideline. The current menu structure follows the KDE HIG, which is probably >>> why first and foremost the Mac users find it irritating (same as Linux >>> users, for instance, would find a

Re: LyX Menu Structure

2008-06-03 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller
Bennett Helm wrote: > Naturally all of these suggestions won't be > acceptable precisely because, as you say, Linux and Windows users have > different guidelines. But I think it's worth looking at it and thinking > about changes nonetheless. I don't think a mix of different guidelines is what we w

Re: LyX Menu Structure

2008-06-03 Thread Bennett Helm
; (as long as we do not have a Menu Inset Info). > > Also, we should not follow our intuition alone, but some Human Interface > Guideline. The current menu structure follows the KDE HIG, which is > probably > why first and foremost the Mac users find it irritating (same as Linux &

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