On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 2:22 PM, Franklin, Matthew B.
wrote:
> As not everyone has read or is privy to the private list discussions, what
> they see is that you have a standing -1 vote from a mentor who has expressed
> concerns on this list and the dev list as to whether or not the diversity
> requ
On Jun 5, 2012, at 4:10 PM, Jukka Zitting wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Ralph Goers
> wrote:
>> I posted an email earlier today where I discussed my confusion over the
>> diversity
>> requirement. I'm not comfortable doing anything without getting some
>> feedback
>> on
Hi,
On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 11:45 PM, Ralph Goers wrote:
> I posted an email earlier today where I discussed my confusion over the
> diversity
> requirement. I'm not comfortable doing anything without getting some feedback
> on whether the diversity requirement, as currently stated on the wiki,
On Jun 5, 2012, at 2:22 PM, Franklin, Matthew B. wrote:
>
> Based on some digging, I think what you are mostly facing is a battle of
> perception. As not everyone has read or is privy to the private list
> discussions, what they see is that you have a standing -1 vote from a mentor
> who ha
>-Original Message-
>From: Arvind Prabhakar [mailto:arv...@apache.org]
>Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2012 3:22 PM
>To: general@incubator.apache.org
>Subject: Re: Flume Graduation (was Re: June reports in two weeks)
>
>On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Patrick Hunt wrot
On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 11:42 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Marvin Humphrey
> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
> >> Isn't this why we vote. To come to a decision when consensus can't be
> >> reached and allow people to move on.
> >
> > W
On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 11:01 AM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
>> Isn't this why we vote. To come to a decision when consensus can't be
>> reached and allow people to move on.
>
> When diversity concerns were raised in the ManifoldCF podling by Jukka
On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 9:53 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
> Isn't this why we vote. To come to a decision when consensus can't be
> reached and allow people to move on.
When diversity concerns were raised in the ManifoldCF podling by Jukka,
graduation was delayed to address them.
When diversity concer
I suppose. But i guess I'd rather vote on whether diversity is a requirement
for graduation before I voted on the graduation itself.
Ralph
On Jun 5, 2012, at 9:53 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
> Isn't this why we vote. To come to a decision when consensus can't be
> reached and allow people to move
Not really. Generally it is best for a vote to be a proof of consensus,
especially for bigger topics (like graduation).
And I certainly would add a -1 vote were a project attempting to
override a mentor.
Upayavira
On Tue, Jun 5, 2012, at 09:53 AM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
> Isn't this why we vote. To
Isn't this why we vote. To come to a decision when consensus can't be
reached and allow people to move on.
Patrick
On Tue, Jun 5, 2012 at 8:22 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
>
>
> The graduation requirements say
>
> "The project is considered to have a diverse community when it is not highly
> depend
The graduation requirements say
"The project is considered to have a diverse community when it is not highly
dependent on any single contributor (there are at least 3 legally independent
committers and there is no single company or entity that is vital to the
success of the project). Basica
On Jun 5, 2012, at 2:19 PM, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Ralph Goers
> wrote:
>> Another way of looking at these same statistics:
>> Cloudera - 217
>> Other - 16
>>
>> That means Cloudera is responsible for over 93% of the Jira issues. It is
>> great that Clouder
On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 11:44 PM, Ralph Goers
wrote:
> Another way of looking at these same statistics:
> Cloudera - 217
> Other - 16
>
> That means Cloudera is responsible for over 93% of the Jira issues. It is
> great that Cloudera is doing so much work but those stats hardly prove
> diversity
Closing the loop on this thread: The Flume PPMC has discussed the diversity
issue and have concluded to put all current committers as PMC when drafting
the resolution.
Also, the wiki has been updated with details on how to contribute and
commit.
https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLUME/H
Jukka Zitting wrote on Sun, May 27, 2012 at 11:40:36 +0200:
> It sounds like you have a reasonably good handle on that, so I'm not
> too worried, but my instinct suggests that the strict RTC model and
> distinction between committers and (P)PMC members may be structural
> factors that could easily
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 7:13 AM, Shane Curcuru wrote:
> Doesn't the IPMC (and not any individuals, even Roy) decide what the
> official Incubation policies should be? Ralph's reply, and my general
> reading of the feeling in the IPMC is that graduation votes *should* take
> affiliation diversity
>From a mobile device - forgive errors and terseness
On May 29, 2012 12:14 PM, "Shane Curcuru" wrote:
>
> Doesn't the IPMC (and not any individuals, even Roy) decide what the
official Incubation policies should be? Ralph's reply, and my general
reading of the feeling in the IPMC is that graduatio
On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 1:20 PM, Daniel Shahaf wrote:
> Shane Curcuru wrote on Tue, May 29, 2012 at 07:13:29 -0400:
>> Doesn't the IPMC (and not any individuals, even Roy) decide what the
>> official Incubation policies should be?...
>
> Well, yes, but the IPMC can only decide whether or not to re
Shane Curcuru wrote on Tue, May 29, 2012 at 07:13:29 -0400:
> Doesn't the IPMC (and not any individuals, even Roy) decide what the
> official Incubation policies should be? Ralph's reply, and my
Well, yes, but the IPMC can only decide whether or not to recommend
graduation. The Board can graduat
Doesn't the IPMC (and not any individuals, even Roy) decide what the
official Incubation policies should be? Ralph's reply, and my general
reading of the feeling in the IPMC is that graduation votes *should*
take affiliation diversity into account.
Note that some could argue Flume technically
On 27 May 2012 10:40, Jukka Zitting wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Arvind Prabhakar
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I don't think this is a problem because while most Cloudera committers
> have
> > the luxury of working on the project during regular working hours, others
> > do that duri
On 27 May 2012 01:15, Ralph Goers wrote:
> What would happen if all the Cloudera people were to suddenly vanish from
> the project (this could easily happen if Cloudera were purchased by a
> larger company who had different goals). As it stands today I don't
> believe the project would survive v
On 27 May 2012 00:43, Jukka Zitting wrote:
>
>
>arvind - 116 commits - Cloudera
>prasadm - 22 commits - Cloudera
>brock - 16 commits - Cloudera
>esammer - 4 commits - Cloudera
>jarcec - 1 commit - AVG Technologies
>juhanic - 1 commit - CyberAgent
>
> The only
On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> ...2. Regarding doing away with the difference between PPMC and committers, I
> am told that other projects do this during graduation. I.e., they promote
> all existing committers to PMC status during graduation...
Not sure if that's a g
Thanks Jukka for your suggestions.
1. Regarding wiki - I have taken a note of that and will update it soon.
2. Regarding doing away with the difference between PPMC and committers, I
am told that other projects do this during graduation. I.e., they promote
all existing committers to PMC status du
Hi,
On Sun, May 27, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> As you noted in your comments above - the Flume project tends to follow RTC
> with the reviewer committing the code. I happen to have taken up the role
> of the reviewer for the most part and hence you see the skewed commit
> counts.
Roy, What you are saying directly contradicts
http://incubator.apache.org/guides/graduation.html#community, especially the
statement "Basically this means that when a project mostly consists of
contributors from one company, this is a sign of not being diverse enough".
Now, if that page is wr
There is no diversity requirement for graduating from the incubator. In many
ways, incubation hinders community growth. The requirement is that the project
makes decisions as an Apache project, not in private, which is harder to get
used to doing if a lot of people share the same office.
Diver
On May 26, 2012, at 9:29 PM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> Hi Jukka,
>
> On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Jukka Zitting wrote:
>>
>> IIUC Flume operates under an RTC model where people are not supposed
>> to commit their own changes, which obviously makes the above data less
>> relevant for evaluat
Hi Jukka,
On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Jukka Zitting wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Arvind Prabhakar
> wrote:
> > * We have established that there is sufficient diversity in the
> committers
> > list.
>
> I tend to look more at actual commit activity than the committers li
On May 26, 2012, at 10:11 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Ralph Goers
> wrote:
>
>> At this point my recommendations are:
>> 1. Since the PPMC voted to separate being a committer and being a PMC
>> member I would wait a couple of months and then add the new non-C
Hi,
On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 7:11 PM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> * We have established that there is sufficient diversity in the committers
> list.
I tend to look more at actual commit activity than the committers list
when evaluating the diversity of a project. There are people on the
Flume commi
On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 12:29 PM, Ralph Goers wrote:
> At this point my recommendations are:
> 1. Since the PPMC voted to separate being a committer and being a PMC
> member I would wait a couple of months and then add the new non-Cloudera
> committers to the PPMC if it is warranted.
> 2. Of cours
Hi folks,
Just to throw my hat into the ring on this subject: I recognize that I have
been inactive from a contribution standpoint since Flume's introduction
into the ASF incubator, but still follow Flume on the mailing lists and in
other community meetups. I've done a bunch of work with Flume in
On May 25, 2012, at 11:03 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
>>
>> That leaves just me as the only non-Cloudera PPMC member who actively
>> participates and I don't commit code and I've been on the PPMC primarily as
>> a mentor. If you somehow believe that this constitutes diversity than my
>> job as
On Fri, May 25, 2012 at 8:03 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
> On May 25, 2012, at 2:46 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
>
> > On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Ralph Goers <
> ralph.go...@dslextreme.com>wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> On May 24, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> > The current PPMC consists o
On 24 May 2012 06:15, Benson Margulies wrote:
> I've met other groups of people who like a JIRA centric view
> of the world. I suspect that if they did a bunch of other good things
> called out below, you or others would find the JIRA business
> digestible. Also, on the other hand, I fear that th
On 24 May 2012 07:44, Marvin Humphrey wrote:
> To me that seems like it raises a barrier to entry -- but then,
> there are numerous projects around the ASF who are not hurting for
> contributors and who use JIRA for *everything* -- starting with Hadoop and
> Lucene.
>
>
I first encountered when
I was involved with Flume prior to coming to Apache ... then a baby arrived
and things sort of changed for the last year. But you're right that I
haven't been around since then ... I still have a couple of source trees
around with various changes in them, but no idea what the status of any of
that
On May 25, 2012, at 2:46 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Ralph Goers
> wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 24, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
>>>
>>> There are four companies represented in this list: AVG Technologies,
>>> Cloudera, CyberAgent and Trend Micro. Co
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> >
> > There are four companies represented in this list: AVG Technologies,
> > Cloudera, CyberAgent and Trend Micro. Compared to other projects that
> have
> > successfully graduated fr
Hi,
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:06 PM, Dave Fisher wrote:
>
> I started reading some of the Flume website and I think that when you go
> to the main Wiki page:
>
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLUME/Index
>
> When you click on the "Flume Cookbook" the resource is at cloudera.org.
>
On May 24, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Ralph Goers
> wrote:
>
>> The ONLY issue I see for Flume to graduate is diversity. No one will
>> convince me that the current makeup constitutes diversity of any kind.
>
> Here are the committer
According to Clutch [1] the project has added 8 committers since it
entered incubation. Regarding diversity, committers from over four
organizations are actively involved in Flume development, which is
pretty healthy. There does seem to be a need to have more diversity at
the PPMC level, however, s
On May 24, 2012, at 11:49 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
>
> On May 24, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Ralph Goers
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The ONLY issue I see for Flume to graduate is diversity. No one will
>>> convince me that the current make
On May 24, 2012, at 10:40 AM, Arvind Prabhakar wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Ralph Goers
> wrote:
>
>> The ONLY issue I see for Flume to graduate is diversity. No one will
>> convince me that the current makeup constitutes diversity of any kind.
>>
>> Perhaps I shouldn't
Hi,
On Thu, May 24, 2012 at 12:19 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
> The ONLY issue I see for Flume to graduate is diversity. No one will
> convince me that the current makeup constitutes diversity of any kind.
>
> Perhaps I shouldn't have brought up the mailing list issues as that was
> only meant in the
On May 24, 2012, at 12:20 AM, Ralph Goers wrote:
> The ONLY issue I see for Flume to graduate is diversity. No one will
> convince me that the current makeup constitutes diversity of any kind.
>
> Perhaps I shouldn't have brought up the mailing list issues as that was only
> meant in the spiri
The ONLY issue I see for Flume to graduate is diversity. No one will convince
me that the current makeup constitutes diversity of any kind.
Perhaps I shouldn't have brought up the mailing list issues as that was only
meant in the spirit of trying to offer some advice on how more diversity cou
I appreciate your position Ralph and I don't want anyone to feel like they
can't contribute. As we've talked about before, we've been quick to nurture
new contributors to committer status successfully in a few cases. It's true
that some of the more active committers are from Cloudera, but it's not
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Ralph Goers
wrote:
> I'm just saying I find it difficult to participate with that style and that
> simply makes me wonder if that is making it harder to attract new
> committers.
I suspect it attracts some and drives away others.
I frikkin' hate JIRA notificatio
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Ralph Goers
wrote:
>
> On May 23, 2012, at 10:48 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Ralph Goers
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On May 23, 2012, at 10:15 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Ralph Goers
wrote:
On May 23, 2012, at 10:48 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Ralph Goers
> wrote:
>>
>> On May 23, 2012, at 10:15 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Ralph Goers
>>> wrote:
Right after I read Jukka's email that started this thread
On May 23, 2012, at 10:48 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote:
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Ralph Goers
> wrote:
>>
>> On May 23, 2012, at 10:15 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Ralph Goers
>>> wrote:
Right after I read Jukka's email that started this thread
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Ralph Goers
wrote:
>
> On May 23, 2012, at 10:15 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
>
>> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Ralph Goers
>> wrote:
>>> Right after I read Jukka's email that started this thread and I posted my
>>> reply and discovered to my shock that they
On May 23, 2012, at 10:15 PM, Benson Margulies wrote:
> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Ralph Goers
> wrote:
>> Right after I read Jukka's email that started this thread and I posted my
>> reply and discovered to my shock that they had started a graduation vote. I
>> am shocked because I ha
On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Ralph Goers
wrote:
> Right after I read Jukka's email that started this thread and I posted my
> reply and discovered to my shock that they had started a graduation vote. I
> am shocked because I have pointed out repeatedly the project's complete lack
> of div
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