On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 11:18 PM, Ralph Goers <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: > > On May 23, 2012, at 10:48 PM, Patrick Hunt wrote: > >> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:36 PM, Ralph Goers >> <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>> >>> On May 23, 2012, at 10:15 PM, Benson Margulies wrote: >>> >>>> On Wed, May 23, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Ralph Goers >>>> <ralph.go...@dslextreme.com> wrote: >>>>> Right after I read Jukka's email that started this thread and I posted my >>>>> reply and discovered to my shock that they had started a graduation vote. >>>>> I am shocked because I have pointed out repeatedly the project's >>>>> complete lack of diversity. Virtually all the active PMC members and >>>>> committers work for the same employer. I have told them several times >>>>> that I would actually like to participate in the project but the way the >>>>> project works is very different then every other project I am involved >>>>> with at the ASF and the barriers to figure out what is actually going on >>>>> is very high. Almost nothing is discussed directly on the dev list - it >>>>> is all done through Jira issues or the Review tool. While all the Jira >>>>> issue updates and reviews are sent to the dev list most of that is just >>>>> noise. Feel free to review the dev list archives to see what I am >>>>> talking about. >>>> >>>> I don't follow flume, but I'd propose to soften your objection only >>>> slightly. I've met other groups of people who like a JIRA centric view >>>> of the world. I suspect that if they did a bunch of other good things >>>> called out below, you or others would find the JIRA business >>>> digestible. Also, on the other hand, I fear that the co-employed >>>> contributors are collaborating in the hallway, and the lack of the >>>> context in JIRA or on the list is contributing to the problem. >>> >>> I have reason to doubt the collaboration in the hallway aspect and I >>> certainly do not doubt everyone's good intent. I'm not objecting to the >>> collaboration style as an issue preventing graduation. I'm just saying I >>> find it difficult to participate with that style and that simply makes me >>> wonder if that is making it harder to attract new committers. I fully >>> realize that that issue might just be with me, but the fact remains that >>> there is practically no diversity in the project and I cannot in good >>> conscience recommend graduation for a project in that situation. >>> >> >> Hi Ralph, Benson, et. al., some background: >> >> Flume is similar to Hadoop and other related projects in that it is >> very jira heavy for development activity. No slouch in terms of >> mailing list traffic either though (1200 last month): >> http://flume.markmail.org/ > > Sorry I didn't include this in my prior post but here you are making my point > exactly. I participate in several other Apache projects. Wading through > 1200+ emails per month that are largely Jira/Review noise makes it very > difficult for me to find posts that have any value. As a consequence I am > largely forced to simply delete everything generated by he Review tool and > Jira. And I'm a mentor. I just don't see how newcomers are going to find > this style welcoming.
There are separate lists it's just that markmail clubs them all together. It's also pretty easy to filter... Patrick --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org
