Re: [MlMt] reply quoting selection

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 3 Apr 2013, at 11:59, Dr Gregory Jefferis wrote:

I have recently purchased mailmate after being pleased during the 
trial period.


Thanks for your support!

One feature that I miss (or have not yet figured out) is selecting 
text in a message so that only that text is quoted when I then hit 
reply or forward. Is this possible? If not, I would add this as a 
feature request – I

hope a fairly simple one.


Open the Composer preferences pane (⌘,) and then enable the “Only 
include selected text” option.


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[MlMt] Inline images using Markdown

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

Hi MailMate users,

recent test releases include a simple (but useful) feature for 
Markdown-based messages. You can now insert images inline using 
drag'n'drop. When dropping a message onto the composer, a `Content-ID` 
is created for the attachment, and this is then used for the automatic 
insertion of a Markdown reference to the image.


Here is an example image:

![](cid:F2019F98-AD60-4BFD-B1BE-DD43BEDAE063@freron.com "Software 
Update.png")


And this is what is shown in the composer:

	![](cid:F2019F98-AD60-4BFD-B1BE-DD43BEDAE063@freron.com "Software 
Update.png")


For this to work HTML generation must be enabled (except if you know you 
are writing to a MailMate user).


You can fetch the test release (r3305) by holding down ⌥ when clicking 
“Check Now” in the Software Update preferences pane.


The test release also contains some other minor features, bug fixes, and 
various small improvements. See the release notes for details.


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Re: [MlMt] Inline images using Markdown

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 5 Apr 2013, at 18:43, Gustavo Daniel Villarreal wrote:

Ver nice! I can now build markdown tables with images in the cells, 
which is great for showing instructions with an image per instruction. 
I just tested it and it works.


Note that there is one problem with the current solution. I have not 
used the correct MIME body parts which means that all inlined images are 
also going to be shown as attachments at the end of the message. Some 
email clients are going to show them inline again (although they are not 
marked as inline). MailMate just shows them as attachments which is why 
I overlooked this error at first (bad excuse :-) ). I'll write again on 
the list when this has been fixed.


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Re: [MlMt] Inline images using Markdown

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 5 Apr 2013, at 19:46, Bill Cole wrote:

CORRECTION: I neglected to make the first version a Markdown 
message... Here's the demo:


And it failed again. My crappy mailing list software (Mailman) strips 
the `markup=markdown` part of plain text messages. It only works with 
HTML generation enabled. I have not found an easy way to solve this, but 
I should since this is the only list where one should not need to enable 
HTML generation :-)


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Re: [MlMt] Inline images using Markdown

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 5 Apr 2013, at 19:33, Bill Cole wrote:

Another thing about this "feature" that is definitely bad: a sender 
can copy the cid reference from one message to another and get the 
image rendered like this:


This is true for any attachment in any message with a `Content-ID` 
assigned to a body part. The `Content-ID` is (should be) unique and 
therefore you cannot reference anything you don't already know. MailMate 
might make this easier, but I don't see that it is any different than 
what is already possible?


I could, of course, offer an option for forbidding cross-message `cid:` 
references.


(If I remember correctly, in the case of identical content ids MailMate 
prioritizes the one in the same message as the reference, but I haven't 
verified this. If not, this could be a security problem.)


(I am also uneasy about the whole concept of rendering markup in 
text/plain parts on principle,  but I expect

that's an unwinnable argument)


I would certainly have preferred that the markup for inline images was 
more “natural” like the rest of the Markdown markup. I chose 
Markdown because it generally looks just like plain text (and because it 
is already based on email syntax).


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Re: [MlMt] Inline images using Markdown

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 6 Apr 2013, at 4:27, Bill Cole wrote:


[...]
If one sends a message with this message-level Content-Type:

Content-Type: text/plain; markup=markdown

And this 3-line body:

There's nothing at this content-id:

	![](cid:F2019F98-AD60-4BFD-B1BE-DD43BEDAE063@freron.com "Software 
Update.png")


That's bad

MM will find the referenced image anywhere in its store and render it.


That is correct.

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Re: [MlMt] Inline images using Markdown

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 6 Apr 2013, at 5:58, Bill Cole wrote:

I could, of course, offer an option for forbidding cross-message cid: 
references.


That would be prudent.


Noted on my todo.

I'm not against Markdown as a tool to generate HTML for those who want 
to engage in such behaviors, but I'd very much like a way to switch 
off interpretation of Markdown in message windows.


Also noted.


It's a misfeature in concept, not merely in implementation.


On that one we'll have to agree to disagree :-)

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[MlMt] MailMate crashes on launch

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 17 Mar 2010, at 1:12, Christoph Lukas wrote:

> I downloaded the latest beta of MailMate, but it keeps crashing on > launch.
> The main window spawns for a second, I can move it around but can't > use any 
> UI elements.
>
> I've attached the OS X generated crash-report.

Thanks! It is caused by a bug in my code for reading Thunderbird preference 
files. Naturally, it should not crash and I'll review the code in a moment.

> How can I make it work?

You can either wait for the next beta where I expect to have fixed the problem 
or you can temporarily move/rename your Thunderbird Preferences folder. It is 
located in:

~/Library/Thunderbird

MailMate reads files such as (based on entries in Profiles.ini):

~/Library/Thunderbird/Profiles/z8cwzc0i.default/prefs.js

The 'z8cwzc0i'-part is a random string.

It would be helpful if you send me your prefs.js file(s). If you do, then 
remember to send it off-list and anonymize anything you do not want 
me to see (the files do *not* contain any passwords).

And thanks for sending the first message to this list :-)

--
Benny

[MlMt] MailMate crashes on launch

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 17 Mar 2010, at 9:36, Benny Kj?r Nielsen wrote:

> Thanks! It is caused by a bug in my code for reading Thunderbird 
> preference files. Naturally, it should not crash and I'll review the 
> code in a moment.

The problem should be fixed now. My parser would fail if something was 
used as both key and dictionary. Thunderbird preferences are simple 
key-value pairs using '.' to provide a hierarchy for the keys. Here is a 
very simple example:

user_pref("one", "value");
user_pref("one.two", "value");
user_pref("one.three", "value");

My code tries (essentially) to convert it into an NSDictionary, but it 
would fail in the above example since 'one' would need to be both a key 
for a string and a dictionary. My current solution is to prefer 
dictionary over string.

I would still like to see the lines in your Thunderbird preferences 
which triggered the bug.

--
Benny

[MlMt] IMAP problem: Server has no UIDPLUS extension

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 21 Mar 2010, at 6:13, Niels C?lle wrote:

> Kim asked me to test MailMate. If I try to take my account online I 
> get the error "IMAP problem for "..." account - Error: Server has no 
> UIDPLUS extension (currently required)". I am using IMAP with SSL.

Thanks for trying MailMate. A quick Google search indicates that GMX 
(imap.gmx.de) really does not support the UIDPLUS extension [1]. Such 
servers are in the minority now [2], and it is currently *not* a 
priority to make MailMate work without it. Sorry. I hope even more 
servers are going to support UIDPLUS in the future -- at least it seems 
to be a standard part of the future of IMAP [3].

[1]: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4315 
(http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2359)
[2]: http://www.melnikov.ca/mel/devel/ServerReference.html
[3]: http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5550#section-3.2

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] can i do this...

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

Hi Barry,

first of all, thanks for trying out MailMate. Also thanks for using the 
mailing list. Even though MailMate handles mailing lists quite well, 
this mailing list has had very little traffic. Therefore, it may also be 
received by people who have not checked out MailMate in a long time (but 
joined the mailing list at some point). So, before answering your 
question, I just want to state that MailMate is at version 1.0.2 now. 
For any recipients on this mailing list who want to catch up, the 
following links may be useful:

http://freron.com/
http://blog.freron.com/2011/mailmate-1-0-released/
http://tracker.mailmate-app.com/
http://www.macupdate.com/app/mac/34543/mailmate

Currently, the mailing list has 47 members.

Ok, now back to your message.

On 11 Mar 2011, at 22:42, Barry Chern wrote:

> Is there any way or ways I can use this and still keep all the 
> messages I want on my hard drive forever without having them kept on 
> the server (for more than a short period of time).

A prelude to my answer: I get (variations of) this question quite 
frequently and I must admit I am still a bit surprised. Using IMAP only 
for temporary storage reduces IMAP to a complicated variant of POP3. 
MailMate does not support POP3 by design, that is, I believe IMAP should 
replace POP3 for most people. As I have stated elsewhere, if MailMate 
was to support POP3, it would most likely be in a way such that the 
retrieved messages were put directly into an IMAP mailbox.

So, my preferred answer would be: I really think you should consider to 
use IMAP as it was intended, if possible.

My practical answers are:

1. The best way to keep messages ?locally? only, is to run your own 
IMAP server either on your own machine or your local network and move 
the messages to an account on this server. The disadvantage is that each 
message will be located both on the server and within MailMate, but you 
could also think of that as a backup system.

2. Second-best is kind of a hack. If importing messages into MailMate, 
you can first create a mailbox on some IMAP account and then take that 
mailbox offline before importing messages into it. Then MailMate will 
not try to upload the messages to the server. Note that you cannot just 
move messages from an online mailbox to an offline mailbox and then 
expect the messages to be removed from the server. MailMate does not 
delete messages on the server before it is sure that the messages have 
reached the destination. You can however delete the messages server-side 
after moving them.

I also have a selfish reason for wanting my users to use IMAP as it is 
intended (or at least by using solution 1 above). If MailMate should 
contain some bug that corrupts its internal database then it is much 
easier for me to tell a user to start over by deleting everything and 
then synchronize the accounts than it is to ask the user to locate any 
local messages and re-import them into MailMate (which would also lose 
any keywords applied to the messages). That said, MailMate does save all 
messages in a simple disk folder hierarchy in standard raw message 
format (.eml).

Again, thanks for trying out MailMate. I'm sorry I couldn't give you a 
more simple answer.

And to everybody on the list: You are welcome to ask any questions you 
like. Bugs and feature requests which do not seem relevant for many 
users are probably better handled via the tracker 
(http://tracker.mailmate-app.com).

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] can i do this...

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 11 Mar 2011, at 23:38, Barry Chern wrote:

> well, let me give you a simple explanation of why I would want to do 
> this. I want to keep mail that I don't specifically delete forever. 
> And, we use a third-party server to handle a large number of 
> mailboxes/addresses and supporting a number of domain names. The space 
> on that server is not unlimited.

I would then suggest that you use one or more separate IMAP accounts for 
long term storage. This would also give you the advantage of easily 
allowing access to archived messages from more than 1 machine/device. 
Also note that MailMate supports subscriptions of mailboxes, so you can 
choose to only sync selected mailboxes to any single machine running 
MailMate.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Mailmate and Dovecot

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 15 Mar 2011, at 12:31, Johannes Posel wrote:

> I just have a small question. Any chance that Mailmate will support
> Dovecot-based IMAP servers? AFAIK Dovecot does not support the UIDPLUS
> extension, so Mailmate does not access my mailboxes.

I use Dovecot myself, but I know that the support for UIDPLUS in Dovecot 
is relatively recent (2008 I think == wild guess).

Earlier versions of MailMate did work without UIDPLUS, but I got tired 
of the growing number of workarounds needed, especially when also 
fighting Googles IMAP implementation. MailMate is now very robust and 
efficient with the UIDPLUS extension and I would strongly recommend the 
use of servers with the UIDPLUS extension if possible.

That said, I am actually looking into supporting non-UIDPLUS servers 
right now. I'll let you know when/if it is completed. Anyone else 
interested can send me a private email and I'll let you know too ? 
especially if you are willing to test it.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] address book carddav support

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 15 Mar 2011, at 23:05, hellyesvoodoopsychicguy at gmail.com wrote:

> right now mailmate does not seem to support to read contacts from 
> address book that are stored on a caldav server!

Ok, I never tried this.

> Are there any plans supporting this?

No plans, but I was also not aware of this issue. If I can find a 
CardDav server for testing then I'll look into what the problem is and 
how hard it would be to solve.

Kind regards,

Benny

[MlMt] address book carddav support

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 15 Mar 2011, at 23:05, hellyesvoodoopsychicguy at gmail.com wrote:

> right now mailmate does not seem to support to read contacts from 
> address book that are stored on a caldav server!

I tried a CardDav server and I was able to reproduce the problem (no 
completion of addresses). Unfortunately the problem is that Apple Mail 
uses a private API. The following from stackoverflow includes a quote 
from an Apple engineer on this subject:


http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2881468/create-abperson-records-in-a-shared-carddav-10-6-server-hosted-addressbook

I have looked at the private API and after some experimentation I can 
make it work for both completion and for the ?Address Panel?. Now I 
just need to decide whether I want MailMate to become an application 
which uses private APIs... I'll probably include the ?feature? for 
now, but be aware that this is going to be an unsupported feature, that 
is, it may be removed again.

I have not tested it, but it should work for any kind of account in the 
Address Book (CardDav, Exchange, and LDAP).

Kind regards,

Benny

[MlMt] virtual Date Received when header does not actually exist

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 6 Apr 2011, at 7:29, Mason Mark wrote:

> Viewing the message source, I see that only a minimal set of headers 
> is actually present, and there are no "Received:" headers at all.
>
> Am I correct in thinking that, if no "Received:" headers are actually 
> present, MM uses the "Date:" field as the date received (for the 
> purpose of sorting).

That is correct. Thanks for noticing :-)

> And probably Mail.app decides to use the first date it saw the 
> message?

Yes, they most likely use ?now? as a fallback which is 
understandable when there are no Received headers. But I had the same 
problem as you and decided I preferred the Date header as a fallback.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] How to mark all messages of a folder as read?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 13 Apr 2011, at 22:49, Niels C?lle wrote:

> How can I mark all messages in a folder as read without marking all?

There is currently no way to do this without first marking all (?A 
??U). I rarely need this myself, but you are not the first to ask. 
I've noted it as a request.

Kind regards,

Benny

[MlMt] Shortcut list?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 19 Apr 2011, at 10:00, Felix Geller wrote:

> is a compiled list of shortcuts available? (Something similar to 
> GMails help overlay screen (when pressing ?) would be nice).

No, not currently. Most can be found in the menus, some are standard Mac 
OS X navigation keys and some are inspired by Apple Mail and other 
applications (like using the space key to scroll the message view or 
skip to next message ? even if focus is in the message list).

And yes, I should make a list.

> Also, is there way to toggle focus between the message viewing and 
> message list panes?

You can tab (?) and shift-tab between views as in most applications. 
You can also keep focus in the message list and use space to scroll as 
described above.

Kind regards,

Benny

[MlMt] MailMate event scripts

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 13 May 2011, at 11:15, Helge Andre Gudmundsen wrote:

> I am trying to get a simple script to run when new mail arrives, but 
> my script does not seem to trigger. [...]

I tried your script and it works for me (with a different sound). Note 
that the 'script' key does not work for this kind of event and the UUID 
should not be used when not overwriting any default scripts (of which 
none are currently enabled). A rewritten version is here:

{
name= 'New Mail';
events  = ( 'account.synchronized' );
select  = "$Inbox.filter(#flags.flag !=[x] '\\Seen')";
actions = ( { type = playSound; path = 'CashRegister.wav'; } );
}

The simple 'path' above makes MailMate look in '~/Library/Sounds', but 
it should also work with a full path.

> Are there any debug settings in MailMate that I can use to check 
> whether the script triggers or not?

No, but I can see that there really should be.

Is your script located in:

~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Scripts/SomeName.mmCommand

If MailMate fails to find the sound then an error is logged (look in 
Console.app).

I'll work on introducing a debug variable for scripts, so let me know if 
you still cannot make the script work. In general, scripts are still 
experimental, but playing sounds and moving messages should work since I 
use such scripts myself.

(Sounds, by the way, can be configured in the Preferences, but I guess 
you are just playing with scripts.)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] MailMate event scripts

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 13 May 2011, at 11:15, Helge Andre Gudmundsen wrote:

> Are there any debug settings in MailMate that I can use to check 
> whether the script triggers or not?

Try fetching this version:

http://updates.mailmate-app.com/archives/MailMate_r2098.tbz

The release notes describe a debug variable. Use that and then look for 
output in Console.app.

It should look like something as follows:

Loaded and parsed script named: ?New Mail? (disabled)
Loaded and parsed script named: ?Strip Mailman Footer? (disabled)
Loaded and parsed script named: ?Strip Whitespace? (enabled)
Event type ?account.synchronized? for 2 messages
 0 messages triggered ?Sound for MailMate Receipts?
 1 messages triggered ?Sound for Inbox?
 1 messages triggered ?Notification for Inbox?

I hope this can help you. You are welcome to ask more questions (also on 
the mailing list).

Kind regards,

Benny

[MlMt] MailMate event scripts

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 13 May 2011, at 12:27, Benny Kj?r Nielsen wrote:

> Note that the 'script' key does not work for this kind of event and 
> the UUID should not be used when not overwriting any default scripts 
> (of which none are currently enabled).

For the sake of accuracy: The comment in parenthesis is not correct. A 
single script is enabled by default. It strips prefixed and suffixed 
whitespace before displaying or replying to a message.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] MailMate event scripts

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 13 May 2011, at 18:51, Helge Andre Gudmundsen wrote:

>> Try fetching this version:
>>  http://updates.mailmate-app.com/archives/MailMate_r2098.tbz
>
> The latest release I see there is r2096. I will check back in a while.

Sorry about that. My mistake. This should work:

http://updates.mailmate-app.com/archives/MailMate_r2103.tbz

> In the meantime I have found out that my script actually triggers, but 
> that MailMate does not play any sounds whatsoever on my system. Could 
> be a configuration issue on my end, so I will look into it.

Does this include sounds configured in Preferences (for Sent Message and 
Counters)?

> Playing sounds is only a way to get to know the scripting, and not an 
> end in itself. What I would like to do, is to check for new messages 
> that contain a given subject and then pass on the body of the message 
> to a script that parses it to create OmniFocus tasks based on the body 
> text.
>
> This leads me to two further questions. Will it be possible to have a 
> script trigger on the receipt of new messages and pass the subject and 
> body on to a shell script?

It is not currently possible, but I would like it to be possible. I'll 
think about how it can be implemented. Let me know if you have any 
particular requirements.

I can add that I also think it should be possible to trigger such 
scripts on selected messages. (I cannot give you a time frame though, 
but interesting use cases are always an inspiration.)

> In the examples, the script tag always contains an inline script. Is 
> it possible to call a script external to mailmate?

Well, not directly, but you could let the inline script call an external 
script.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Maildir support?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 23 May 2011, at 16:27, emory+mailmate at hellyeah.com wrote:

> Are there any plans to implement support for local mail directories?

No.

> It would be useful for users that use console-based email clients in
> conjunction with offlineimap or other mechanisms for working with 
> email.

So you want to share the local message cache between MailMate and other 
clients?

(I ask because I most often receive requests for allowing MailMate to 
store messages in local mailboxes, i.e., removing them from IMAP 
completely.)

> (IMO most of those users would probably like support for Maildir 
> prioritized
> above mbox and mix.)

Don't expect MailMate to support any of this. It is more likely that 
I'll introduce a mode in which MailMate does not keep a local copy of 
messages. This way you might be able to run a local IMAP server, use 
OfflineIMAP to sync to it, and then connect MailMate (and other clients) 
to IMAP on localhost. This is all theory and no work has been done in 
this area.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Maildir support?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 24 May 2011, at 2:18, Emory Lundberg wrote:

> On Mon, May 23, 2011 at 06:49:10PM -0400, Mike Alexander wrote:
>
>> That's one of the real advantages of IMAP, you can look at a message
>> without downloading the attachments, HTML parts, etc.  Caching
>> everything sort of defeats that, especially if you use more than one
>> machine to view EMail.

Well, one of the main features of MailMate is that it is an IMAP client 
which is fully functional when being offline.

> Especially on a notebook or mobile device.

In particular, I prefer an offline IMAP client on a notebook. It has 
plenty of space and I often find myself in situations where I'm not 
online when using a notebook.

Variants of IMAP client behavior required to satisfy everybody(?):

1) Offline IMAP (MailMate).
2) Offline IMAP with shared local storage.
3) Online IMAP with no long-term storage/cache.

And I also get requests for making it easy to store messages locally 
only, either to save space on the server or because the server is 
distrusted for storage (but not for transmission). Essentially using 
IMAP for POP3-like behavior.

The main advantages of 2) and 3) are faster initial synchronization and 
smaller local storage space required. To be honest, there are many other 
optimizations of MailMate I would prioritize higher than these. I know 
it may be a deal-breaker for some users. (I do know that some users need 
solution 3 due to company policy.)

I do understand the virtues of online IMAP clients, but MailMate is 
designed to be an offline IMAP client. Given time, some online-like 
behavior may be added (such as not downloading attachments), but it is 
non-trivial and it requires use of IMAP functionality which I have so 
far avoided in order to not having to deal with even more server-bugs.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Tips to make custom (thread arcs) views easier?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Jun 2011, at 14:19, Mike Brasch wrote:

> What tools do you use to design the views?

Just a text editor, but I use one (TextMate) with syntax highlighting 
for plist files which makes it much easier to avoid syntax errors.

> Or do you have any tips/tricks?

Even for me it can be a bit of trial-and-error. There are also some bugs 
in the layout system which makes some configurations impossible. But 
don't get me wrong. I'm really glad when users try to use the layout 
system to personalize the GUI.

I have attached a plist file which almost does what you want. Due to one 
of the layout bugs I had to fix the width of the thread arcs view. You 
can change this width if you like to your preferred setting.

I also tried adding a shortcut for enabling/disabling the thread arcs 
view, but unfortunately that does not work for fixed width views. I 
didn't remove it though in case I fix the layout problem.

> Thread arcs should reflect the read status. Is it possible to make it 
> myself via the .plist?

No, there is no option to do that. I guess there could be some system 
for assigning colors to states like unread, flagged, etc. I'll think 
about that.

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Tips to make custom (thread arcs) views easier?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 6 Jun 2011, at 0:22, Mike Brasch wrote:

> On 3 Jun 2011, at 0:57, Benny Kj?r Nielsen wrote:
>
>> I have attached a plist file which almost does what you want. Due to 
>> one of the layout bugs I had to fix the width of the thread arcs 
>> view. You can change this width if you like to your preferred 
>> setting.
>
> Is it possible to get thread arc without the messages I sent?

My first thought was that this would just break the thread arcs, because 
of missing messages in the thread. But then I realized that there can be 
duplicate messages if the thread is a mailing list. Is this your 
problem? (Maybe provide a use case if it isn't.)

To me the thread arcs are mostly a proof-of-concept and I haven't really 
used it much myself :-)

If you just want to exclude messages that are in your own ?Sent 
Messages? mailbox then you can change the transformation used to the 
following (in the thread arcs part of the plist file):

transformation = "($ALL_MESSAGES xor $SENT).filter(#thread-id =[c] 
$mainOutline.#thread-id)";

Translation of the above: Take any message in ?All Messages? (except 
those in ?Sent Messages?) which is in the same thread as one of the 
currently selected messages in the main messages outline. (The [c] means 
case-insensitive which is not really necessary, but it makes it a bit 
faster.)

It would be nice (and faster) if the transformation could be based on 
the currently selected mailbox(es), but I don't think that currently 
works (a quick experiment failed). I'll look into that eventually.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Tips to make custom (thread arcs) views easier?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 5 Jun 2011, at 20:44, Mike Brasch wrote:

>> No, there is no option to do that. I guess there could be some system 
>> for assigning colors to states like unread, flagged, etc. I'll think 
>> about that.
>
> Oh, yes please. I think, the tool tips should also appear earlier

I have no (easy) control of the timing of tool tips, but the following 
can be done for any application:

defaults write com.freron.MailMate NSInitialToolTipDelay -int 100

The value is in milliseconds. The above is then going to show a tooltip 
after 1/10 of a second. It affects all tooltips in the application 
except those in NSTextViews I believe (the headers view is an 
NSTextView).

You can also set the value system-wide:

defaults write -g NSInitialToolTipDelay -int 100

> and a little bit clearly using newlines, for example:
>
> 
> 

Noted.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Tips to make custom (thread arcs) views easier?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 5 Jun 2011, at 20:44, Mike Brasch wrote:

> Oh, yes please. I think, the tool tips should also appear earlier and 
> a little bit clearly using newlines, for example:
>
> 
> 

I looked in the code and realized you can already do this yourself (long 
time since I wrote the code). Add something like the following to the 
plist file (same place as the transformation):

toolTipFormatting = { formatString = 'From: 
${from.name:${from.address}}\nSubject: ${subject}'; };

Since the subject rarely changes I have changed the default to:

toolTipFormatting = { formatString = 
'${from.name:${from.address}}\n${#date.relative}'; };

A tooltip would then look something like:

Benny Kj?r Nielsen
17 minutes ago

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] password change

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 25 Jun 2011, at 7:50, Igor Karpov wrote:

>> How do I change a password for an email account in MailMate?
>
> As far as I can see, Mailmate keeps the passwords in Keychain, so you 
> probably could change it with Keychain.app.

That is correct, but it is not strictly necessary to change it using 
Keychain.app. If the password of an account has changed then MailMate 
should fail authentication and automatically request a new password.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Tips to make custom (thread arcs) views easier?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 25 Jun 2011, at 22:50, Mike Brasch wrote:

>>  transformation = "($ALL_MESSAGES xor $SENT).filter(#thread-id =[c] 
>> $mainOutline.#thread-id)";
>
> Is it possible to make a decision? Something like
>
> if mailbox is "Mailing lists" then ($ALL_MESSAGES xor $SENT). ...
> if mailbox is not "Mailing lists" then ($ALL_MESSAGES). ...
>
> The first case makes sense for mailing lists, but in other cases it is 
> less convenient.

I think this would work:

transformation = "($ALL_MESSAGES xor $SENT).filter(#thread-id =[c] 
$mainOutline.#thread-id) or $ALL_MESSAGES.filter(#thread-id =[c] 
($mainOutline and ($ALL_MESSAGES xor $MAILING_LISTS)).#thread-id)";

First part is the same as before. The second part does not exclude 
messages in $SENT for any selected messages which are not in the special 
?Mailing Lists? mailbox. You can see that the query language lacks a 
'not' operator to make this less cryptic (to explicitly state 
`$mainOutline and not $MAILING_LISTS`).

The first part could be altered as well which may make it faster (and 
look more like your request):

transformation = "($ALL_MESSAGES xor $SENT).filter(#thread-id =[c] 
($mainOutline and $MAILING_LISTS).#thread-id) or 
$ALL_MESSAGES.filter(#thread-id =[c] ($mainOutline and ($ALL_MESSAGES 
xor $MAILING_LISTS)).#thread-id)";

The nice thing is that it does not depend on the selected mailbox, but 
only on the selected message(s). (If it works ? I haven't tested it.)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] password change

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 25 Jun 2011, at 22:29, Willem Smelik wrote:

> It seems it goes even more smoothly than that: I did not have to 
> change it, Mailmate seems to have found out  of its own accord. Almost 
> scary

And impossible :-) Possible explanations are: 1. You use Apple Mail as 
well and you updated the password in the account settings of Apple Mail 
(they also use the keychain). 2. MailMate still has server connections 
open which were created using the old password. The new password is not 
required until reconnecting later.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Tips to make custom (thread arcs) views easier?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 26 Jun 2011, at 11:50, Thomas Grundberg wrote:

>>  transformation = "($ALL_MESSAGES xor $SENT).filter(#thread-id =[c] 
>> ($mainOutline and $MAILING_LISTS).#thread-id) or 
>> $ALL_MESSAGES.filter(#thread-id =[c] ($mainOutline and ($ALL_MESSAGES 
>> xor $MAILING_LISTS)).#thread-id)";
>
> Holy cow! Is this documented anywhere? I?m aware that Mailmate?s 
> help says ?For now, the examples and the comments within them are 
> the only documentation.?

No, both the query language and the layout file format is undocumented. 
The query language is used extensively within MailMate, for example, all 
mailboxes (including IMAP mailboxes) are based on queries. Most of the 
query language is available in the GUI when doing mailbox searches (or 
defining smart mailboxes). An important exception is the ?xor? used 
above. Note that when creating a smart mailbox, the corresponding query 
can be derived from the value of the filter key stored in 
~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Mailboxes.plist.

Part of the reason these things are undocumented is that they are still 
evolving. In particular, the layout file format is subject to change. 
But questions are welcome if you have some special needs.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] 'Default' account

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 18 Jul 2011, at 7:42, Igor Karpov wrote:

> Got two IMAP sources defined in MailMate, Google & Yahoo!. How to set 
> my Google mail account as 'default' one? I mean this account should be 
> used every time when I am starting the new letter?

Sorry, there is currently no way to do that.

> I've checked the output of `defaults read com.freron.mailmate`, but 
> nothing seems to me as a good candidate for such settings. Looks 
> MailMate uses some heuristics to determine which account to use...

Yes, MailMate uses a heuristic based on the currently selected message 
(or the currently selected mailbox). The next update of MailMate is a 
bit better when replying to messages, but for new messages it is still 
the same. I'll think about how this can be improved.

For the record, the next update of MailMate has a debug variable which 
provides a bit of additional information (in the console) when deriving 
the identity used for replies or new messages:

defaults write com.freron.mailmate MmDebugDerivedIdentity -bool yes

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Default app

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 26 Aug 2011, at 7:58, Olivier BEDOUELLE wrote:

> Is it possible to ensure that MailMate be recognized as the default 
> application?

If you mean default for `mailto:` links then the first popup in 
?Preferences ? General? (?,) should allow you to choose between 
the email applications you have installed.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Default app

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 26 Aug 2011, at 8:43, Olivier BEDOUELLE wrote:

> Yes, of course, I know that ... thank you! But if you want to send 
> mail, for example a PDF document on your desktop directly from the 
> application by default ... with Page ou Number, the client mail app 
> mail is automatically selected.

I?m not sure what you mean by ?Page or Number??

Most often such features only work with Apple Mail (at least for Apples 
own applications), but note that you can always drag files to the 
MailMate dock icon to create a new message with the files attached.

Also note that a proxy icon (the icon to the left of a window title) can 
also be dragged to the MailMate dock icon.

(Apple Mail also supports the use of the Services menu. MailMate does 
not support that yet.)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Default app

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 26 Aug 2011, at 9:36, Olivier BEDOUELLE wrote:

> It's Page.app and number.app
>
> My question is to use the services menu, number.app and pages.app

Ok, I looked into what was required (by me) to make this work and 
apparently it was not a lot :-)

I have added 2 services: ?New Email With Attachment? and ?New 
Email With Selection?. They should work similarly to those for Apple 
Mail.

There is a cutting edge version of MailMate with this feature for those 
of you who know how to get that ;-) It may be necessary to log in/out to 
make it work or you can run the following command in the Terminal:

/System/Library/CoreServices/pbs

Note: These services should work on Leopard and Snow Leopard as well.

Kind regards,

Benny

[MlMt] Hiding junk mail in smart folders

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Oct 2011, at 21:54, Steve Hodgson wrote:

> I was trying to build a smart folder to list only mail sent or 
> received today but not show any junk mail (I use Spamsieve).
>
> Is there any way to do this? I've attempted to do it using the junk 
> and not junk keywords but with no success.

The ?Not Junk? flag is only set if explicitly set by the user. So 
matching on things not marked as Junk (via SpamSieve) means that you 
should use ?Keywords do not include Junk?.

But I?m not sure why you would need the keywords at all. If you base 
the smart folder on ?Inbox? and ?Sent Messages? and then a 
single condition with ?Date is within last 1 days? then I think you 
have what you want. At least if junk mail has been moved to the Junk 
mailbox as it should be.

If you also want to include messages you have archived (or moved to 
other mailboxes) then you can base the smart mailbox on ?All 
Messages? since that does not include messages in the Junk mailbox 
(and ?Deleted Messages?) by default.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Default from address

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 3 Oct 2011, at 22:06, Steve Hodgson wrote:

> When I send messages with MailMate the 'from' address occasionally 
> varies and I've not been able to determine the pattern that governs 
> this. Is there a predefined criteria depending on what folder or 
> source one starts from?

For new messages (I assume you are not asking about replies) the 
identity used for the default From header is based on the currently 
selected message and if such a message does not exist then it is based 
on the bottom-most message displayed in the outline. This last part  is 
actually a bug (fixed now) since it should take the sorting of the 
outline into account (I have the newest message at the bottom myself).

> Alternatively, is it possible to create a default account to be used?

Not easily. I?m considering changing/improving the behavior of 
MailMate in this area, but it is not straightforward how to do this. The 
main advantage of the current solution is that if you, for example, is 
currently viewing a message from a particular mailing list and then 
decide to create a new message to this mailing list, MailMate 
automatically uses the identity used for that mailing list (even if the 
email address itself is not explicitly given in the account settings). 
The disadvantage is that this also happens when you want to create a new 
message which is not related to the currently selected message.

The following is a low-level solution which you may find useful until a 
better solution exists:

Quit MailMate and then edit the following file:

~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Identities.plist

Change the ordering of the identities such that your preferred identity 
is at the top and then save the file. To make sure the file is still 
valid you can use the command line utility named `plutil` as follows:

plutil ~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Identities.plist

It should answer: ?Identities.plist: OK?

Now, after restarting MailMate, if you close the main window in MailMate 
(or deselect the currently displayed mailbox) before creating a new 
message then MailMate should always choose the first identity found.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Default from address

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 5 Oct 2011, at 19:27, Steve Hodgson wrote:

>> For new messages (I assume you are not asking about replies) the
>> identity used for the default From header is based on the currently
>> selected message and if such a message does not exist then it is 
>> based
>> on the bottom-most message displayed in the outline. This last part  
>> is
>> actually a bug (fixed now) since it should take the sorting of the
>> outline into account (I have the newest message at the bottom 
>> myself).
>
> There are two problems I typically experience currently. I should 
> probably say that I have three accounts; IMAP, Gmail and MobileMe - of 
> which I use the last one very rarely. My default would generally be to 
> use my IMAP (Fastmail) account and then the other two only rarely, or 
> where replying to messages sent those accounts.
>
> Often I find that when I create messages from my unread folder I end 
> up using another account from the one I expect and I can understand 
> that now. In my case it appears to also use the newest message which 
> is sorted to appear at the top.

No, if nothing is selected then MailMate always bases it on the 
bottom-most message (as described above).

> What I don't like about this arrangement is that's it's not always 
> predictable what account will be used.

Well, it is predictable, but I agree that it is not always intuitive. A 
better strategy is needed and maybe an option to override with a fixed 
choice of account.

> What I have noticed is that treating a new mail message from a 
> sub-folder within SOURCES will generally use the parent account but 
> just occasionally but just occasionally seems unable to pick-up the 
> account name and just shows the account address but not the name. This 
> hasn't been repeatable through.

I haven?t seen this behavior myself. If you are able to repeat it 
later on then write me a note.

Kind regards,

Benny

[MlMt] Message list in Widesreen mode

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 19 Oct 2011, at 14:06, Ladislav Snizek wrote:

> I've used OS X Lion's Mail for a few days. It's very slow and clumsy. 
> Happy to go back to MailMate.

Welcome back :-)

> I found the message list very easy to read. Same for iPhone and iPad.
>
> Have you considered refitting the Widescreen view so that the message 
> list can be made really narrow, with each message occupying multiple 
> lines in the list? Also formatting using bold font, colour, etc. 
> improves readability greatly.

Yes, I have (also before Lion). It looks great, but I don?t think I 
would use it myself. With the current messages outline you have detailed 
control of the information to be displayed for a given mailbox (via the 
available set of columns). The columns in MailMate are defined in a 
formatting language and I did consider how this formatting language 
could be extended to make something like what you see in Lion Mail. But 
it would require adding control over font sizes, colors, alignment, 
string abbreviation, and probably more in the formatting language. 
Obviously non-trivial. So, I?ve considered it and although I have not 
rejected the concept, it is also not at the top of my list.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Default app

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 20 Oct 2011, at 7:55, Olivier BEDOUELLE wrote:

> Coming back to you on Mail.app
> When I ical.app with an invitation, the invitation is sent with 
> Mail.app, is it possible to send it with MailMate.app? I said that my 
> application is MailMate default.

This turned out to be a non-trivial question. The short answer is: No, 
iCal is hardcoded to use Mail.app and does not look for the default 
email client (which essentially just binds mailto: links to an 
application).

The long answer is: Yes, it can almost be hacked to work. Explanation 
follows below, but it is neither a simple nor a perfect solution.

iCal uses AppleScript to tell Apple Mail to create a message. The script 
is located here:

/Applications/iCal.app/Contents/Resources/Scripts/Mail.scpt

Make a backup copy of that file before proceeding!

I have attached a script which can be used as a replacement, but it has 
one important problem. It can correctly fill out the To-header (if a 
recipient is given), the subject, and the body text. But it cannot 
attach the iCal event. Now, it would be nice if one could at least drag 
the event to MailMate to attach it afterwards, but this does not work 
due to a bug (or missing feature) in MailMate (I have fixed it for the 
next release). The current workaround is to drag the event to the 
desktop to create an .ics file and then drag that file to the composer.

I have tested the script with OS X Lion. This will of course stop 
working if iCal is updated such that the Mail.scpt file is overwritten 
(or is no longer used).

I?ll be looking into making the attachment work without all the 
dragging.

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Default app

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 20 Oct 2011, at 13:55, Thomas Eckhold wrote:

>> This turned out to be a non-trivial question. The short answer is: 
>> No, iCal is hardcoded to use Mail.app and does not look for the 
>> default email client (which essentially just binds mailto: links to 
>> an application).
>
> Does that mean it could work with other calendar apps like BusyCal 
> (that is what I am using)? However, BusyCal calls Mail.app by default 
> and I believe it doesn't check which email client is set as default 
> client (even the manual states it does). BusyCal creates its own ics 
> file. Maybe I could ask them to support other email clients like MM.

Well, it depends on how much BusyCal does. The solution/hack for iCal 
uses a mailto: link to create the message in MailMate. This supports  
setting headers such as To and Subject, and it also allows a body text, 
but attachments are not supported by this URL scheme hence the current 
limitation. I could allow a custom header name for that like 
?x-attach?, but I need to think about any drawbacks of such a 
solution first.

The integration between BusyCal and Apple Mail may go beyond this (I 
haven?t checked).

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Default app

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 20 Oct 2011, at 13:59, David Levy wrote:

> I have been interested in this issue too, although I use BusyCal 
> (www.busymac.com/) which is better.  A while back I asked them about 
> supporting MailMate for things like invitations, responding to 
> invitations, etc.  They are super friendly and flexible and they 
> looked at MailMate and said it didn't seem to have the right support, 
> *but* they would work with MailMate's developer to agree how to make 
> it work.  At that time, I believed that Applescript support was not 
> one of Benny's priorities.  Evidently progress has been made.

I?m sorry, but the hack does not reflect any progress in AppleScript 
support.

> I wonder if you could contact the folks at BusyMac and ask them about 
> supporting the functionality that currently works with Mail and 
> Outlook (and some others) with regard to invitations (e.g. accepting 
> an invite, automatically creates a confirmation mail for sending).  If 
> you've got almost this far with Mail.app, I bet you could get further 
> with BusyCal.

When time allows, I?ll download BusyCal and see what it can do. And 
thus what MailMate needs to do to work with BusyCal, but I?m not 
making any promises here ;-)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] failed ssl hand shake

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 31 Oct 2011, at 11:41, Michael Innes wrote:

> Hi, i am having problems setting up my imap accounts from my dedicated 
> server, which is running Hsphere control panel.
>
> I can get them working fine in, thunderbird, postbox or any other 
> client just not mailmate?
>
> I know the ssl cert is out of date, but in other clients i can 
> manually set it to be trusted.

That is the case in MailMate as well. It also uses the same GUI for this 
as Apple Mail.

> Any ideas?

I don?t know H-Sphere and I don?t know if any other users have 
successfully used MailMate with H-Sphere. A quick Google search revealed 
that they use the Courier IMAP server:

http://www.psoft.net/HSdocumentation/sysadmin/imap.html

I do have an account myself on a server running Courier and I have no 
problems with it.

I?ll need more information to be able to reproduce your problem. You 
can send it by private email if you like (you can use ?Help ? Send 
Feedback? in MailMate). I would like to know when/how it fails, why 
you think it is SSL related, and I would like to know the server 
name/port (to see if I can connect to the server).

Thanks in advance.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Deleteing Attachements

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 16 Nov 2011, at 18:52, Steve Hodgson wrote:

> Is it possible to delete attachments in MailMate? I thought it was at 
> one time but I can't see any way to do this now.

No, the only kind of deletion of attachments possible is to remove 
attachments from an existing draft (in the composer). I assume you want 
to be able to remove an attachment from any message (which implicitly 
means that the message needs to be deleted from the server and 
re-uploaded in its new reduced form).

You are actually the first to request this feature, but I would find it 
useful myself (on rare occasions).

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Deleteing Attachements

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 16 Nov 2011, at 20:10, Alex wrote:

> On 16 Nov 2011, at 19:07, Benny Kjar Nielsen wrote:

What happened to my middle name? I cannot reproduce such a problem in 
MailMate when replying to my own message.

>> You are actually the first to request this feature, but I would find 
>> it
>> useful myself (on rare occasions).
>
> Count me in :)

Ok, 2 hands counted for this request. Anyone else should write me 
privately in order to not spam the list with ?me to? messages :-)

> Obviously (?) it should be usable on a per message basis or on a 
> "batch".

Yes, it is already part of my note on this feature request. A ?Message 
? Remove Attachments? menu item which works on selected messages 
(like Apple Mail I believe) and a ?Remove Attachment? in the context 
sensitive menu for each attachment in a message. Should probably also 
have a warning sheet when removing attachments from more than 1 message.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Deleteing Attachements

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 16 Nov 2011, at 20:29, Benny Kj?r Nielsen wrote:

>> On 16 Nov 2011, at 19:07, Benny Kjar Nielsen wrote:
>
> What happened to my middle name? I cannot reproduce such a problem in 
> MailMate when replying to my own message.

After some off list correspondence: It appears that the mailing list 
software is to blame, but it is not yet clear exactly what triggers it 
(?Kj?r? -> ?Kjar?). Just in case anyone was wondering.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] UI Improvement suggestion

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 20 Nov 2011, at 17:47, Alexandre Takacs wrote:

> I would like to suggest that when the sort key or sort order is 
> changed (typically in list view) the currently selected item [aka 
> message] stays visible.

For me it works when changing sort order, but not when changing sort key 
(and this is also what to expect from the related code). Can you confirm 
this?

It should of course also work when changing sort key. Noted.

> Minor point but annoying (to me at last :).

Details are important.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Yet another minor UI suggestion

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 22 Nov 2011, at 19:47, Alexandre Takacs wrote:

> When filing a mail through Message -> Move to Mailbox the search 
> should not be case sensitive (IMHO).

It isn?t case sensitive for ASCII (a-z), but there are issues in the 
general case (it?s on my list).

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Shortcut to exit search mode

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 22 Nov 2011, at 20:00, Alexandre Takacs wrote:

> Maybe a case of not RTFM but is there a keyboard shortcut to exit 
> search mode ?

Both ?. and ? (escape) should work. (And it?s not in the manual.)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Yet another minor UI suggestion

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 22 Nov 2011, at 20:18, Alexandre Takacs wrote:

>> It isn?t case sensitive for ASCII (a-z), but there are issues in 
>> the general case (it?s on my list).
>
> Not sure about what the issues are but if I have a folder called 
> "MailMate" and type "MAI" it will not show up..

Ah, I see. Using uppercase letters indicates that you do care about the 
casing. Use lowercase letters if you want a case-insensitive search.

(The ?issues? mentioned are that, for example, the letters ??? 
are case sensitive in a mailbox search. This can be considered a known 
bug.)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] MailMate beta available (r2604)

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 1 Dec 2011, at 15:06, Benny Kj?r Nielsen wrote:

> ## Is there an HTML composer in MailMate now?
>
> No, not really. The HTML body part of this message was generated by 
> MailMate, because the message was written using so-called Markdown 
> syntax. That is, the message has two alternative body parts. A plain 
> text body part which looks exactly as I wrote it, and an HTML body 
> part which is generated automatically based on the plain text.

An issue has been reported with respect to Markdown support. It looks 
like it may only work on the machine I use to develop MailMate. One of 
those last-minute changes :-) I'll look into fixing the issue later 
tonight.

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] MailMate beta available (r2604)

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 1 Dec 2011, at 18:48, Dieter May wrote:

> for me it works if I disable/enable the markdown checkbox in 
> preferences
> and disable ?Generate HTML Body Part? in the composer window.

The latter would make it seem to work, because then an HTML body part is 
not generated at all and the problem is related to HTML generation. When 
an HTML body part is not generated, MailMate is still able to show it as 
HTML, because it can identify plain text with markdown syntax. But that 
won't work in any other email clients.

I think the issue can be temporarily fixed by doing the following in the 
terminal:

cd /usr/bin/
sudo ln -s 
/Applications/MailMate.app/Contents/SharedSupport/bin/upskirt

The path naturally depends on the location of MailMate. But it is a 
**temporary** solution. I'll look into fixing it properly. I recommend 
waiting for that.

Kind regards,

Benny
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[MlMt] MailMate beta available (r2604)

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 1 Dec 2011, at 19:22, Benny Kj?r Nielsen wrote:

> The path naturally depends on the location of MailMate. But it is a 
> **temporary** solution. I'll look into fixing it properly. I recommend 
> waiting for that.

A new beta should be available now. You can download it by using the 
?Beta build? setting in the Software Preferences pane and then click 
?Check Now?.

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Helping MailMate and TaskPaper get along for better living

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 8 Dec 2011, at 5:38, Emory L. wrote:

> I'm really delighted to have Markdown working so well in MailMate, as 
> you'll soon realize.

Thanks, it's nice to see it in use.

> I could use some help or feedback in how to integrate MailMate with 
> Taskpaper from Hog Bay Software.  And to be blunt, it doesn't have to 
> work with Taskpaper as much as the Taskpaper files or be able to hand 
> things off to osascript(1) for insert.
>
> I have some ideas about how it could or should work, but I don't know 
> how to implement this best or if it would be something I'd have to ask 
> Benny for as a feature enhancement.

It would certainly be much easier when I have implemented two things:

* some way to run a command/script where the command can be given the 
identity of selected message(s)
* some way to retrieve information about messages based on their 
identity

The first part is not implemented yet, but it is high-priority item.

The latter is implemented in an experimental state as an http server 
with a so-called RESTful service (described in the release notes only), 
but I'm going to make some changes to that interface, so you cannot 
really rely on it yet.

You could probably make something work using ?Edit ? Copy as Link? 
and maybe ?Message ? Show in Finder?. The command line program 
(`emate`) is not going to be useful. Think of it as a debug utility.

The easiest thing to do is probably to wait for me to implement the 
items noted above, but you are of course welcome to try and see how far 
you can get with the existing version of MailMate.

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Helping MailMate and TaskPaper get along for better living

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 12 Dec 2011, at 4:28, Emory L. wrote:

> *Not sure if replying to the digest post from Amiram will wreck 
> threading for people, swapping the subject line out and giving it a 
> try.*

Well, it was the message from Amiram which broke the threading, because 
MailMate uses the `Message-ID` of the digest email which is unrelated to 
the `Message-ID` of the original thread.

I have never looked into the digest format, but IF the format contains 
all the message ids of the original messages (and their subjects) then 
it may be possible to introduce a feature in MailMate where the user is 
asked which message is the original. Then the correct `Subject` and 
`Message-ID` header could be inserted by MailMate. This would be a 
so-called blue sky feature :-) And it is very likely that other 
meta-data is lost (such as format=flowed and use of Markdown).

In general: I continue to recommend not using the digest format (unless 
you only read emails and never write). Note that threads of no interest 
can be muted (?Message ? Mute?) which means that any new messages 
are automatically moved to the same location as the muted parent. (But 
that is also going to break when someone replies to a digest.)

> I haven't played with that much but when I CopyasLink I get a message 
> URL in my clipboard like this:
>
>   message://%3c201112100021.asdfasdf at asdferasdasef%3e
>
> and then clicking that opens the message even if I have subsequently 
> Archived it or saved it to another folder like a yearly archive 
> folder.

Just to confirm: This works no matter where the message is located. The 
only problem can be if a duplicate of the message exists. The value used 
in the URL is simply the `Message-ID` header of the message. It could 
also be stated as:

message://<201112100021.asdfasdf at asdferasdasef>

It is, by the way, used by Apple Mail which is why I use by default, but 
it is essentially the same as the standardized [`mid:` URL 
scheme](http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2392). MailMate supports the 
`message:`, `mid:`, and `cid:` URL schemes.

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Strange "From" address

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 26 Dec 2011, at 12:15, Alan Schmitt wrote:

> I'm trying MailMate, and when sending a message to the Aquamacs 
> mailing list, the "From" address used was a bit strange:
>
>   From: "Alan Schmitt" 
>   To: "Aquamacs Developers" 
>   Subject: Re: [Aquamacs-devel] Building aquamacs24 with no added 
> package
>
> Is this a (known) bug?

See the excellent answer from Allan. The headers of the original message 
can probably help track down the exact problem. Then we'll see if I can 
fix it by changing the heuristic or if it has to be made an optional 
feature.

> PS: I'll probably send several other questions during the next few 
> days, is this the place to do so?

Ideally, the list should be for questions which others may be able to 
answer or questions which are of general interest (so your question was 
fine). In practice, most users are just going to use the feedback method 
that they prefer (list, ticket system, feedback email, blog comment, or 
Twitter). That is fine for me. Well, maybe not Twitter where a question 
often fits within the 140 char limit, but it is very difficult to fit an 
answer within the same limit while still being polite :-)

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Strange "From" address

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 26 Dec 2011, at 13:17, Allan Odgaard wrote:

> On 26 Dec 2011, at 12:24, Alan Schmitt wrote:
>
>> I dug a little bit into this, and it seems to be because of this line 
>> in the email I replied to:
>> X-Original-To: aquamacs-devel at aquamacs.org
>>
>> I don't know if it's usual for a mailing list to set it this way 
>> [?]

[?]

> The x-original-to is unfortunately not a real standard, so my guess is 
> that the software receiving mail for the aquamacs list add the header 
> (understandable, if fronted by a normal SMTP server) the mailing list 
> software doesn?t strip the header before re-sending it to the list 
> members, and your mail server doesn?t add/overwrite the header (it 
> might use some other header to indicate the original to address of the 
> email).
>
> It might be good to see all the headers in the email and know your 
> subscription address to the aquamacs mailing list.

Alan created a [ticket][] with the full headers.

[ticket]: http://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/202

Here are the most relevant ones:

Received: from zfront1.inria.fr (LHLO zfront1.inria.fr) 
(193.51.193.147) by
  zmbs2.inria.fr with LMTP; Sun, 25 Dec 2011 18:44:03 +0100 (CET)
Delivered-To: alan.schmitt.1995 at hruid.polytechnique.org
Received: from relay.andrew.cmu.edu (RELAY-02.ANDREW.CMU.EDU 
[128.2.10.85])
(using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits))
(Client did not present a certificate)
by mx2.polytechnique.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 89DAB803285
for ; Sun, 25 Dec 2011 18:44:54 
+0100 (CET)
X-Original-To: aquamacs-devel at aquamacs.org
Delivered-To: aquamacs-devel at aquamacs.org
From: David Reitter 
In-Reply-To: 
To: Aquamacs Developers 
Reply-To: Aquamacs Developers 
Sender: aquamacs-devel-bounces at aquamacs.org

According to Alan the subscribed address is 
`alan.schmitt at polytechnique.org`. This

The only header containing the correct address is a `Received` header. I 
guess the problem is related to `*.inria.fr` which does not add a 
`X-Original-To` header.

The mailing list software, by the way, is exactly the same as used on 
this mailing list:

X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12

I'm not sure what to do about this other than making the mailing list 
address derivation an optional feature in the preferences. I could 
perhaps also never trust an `X-Original-To` header which has been added 
before a `Delivered-To` header.

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Strange "From" address

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 27 Dec 2011, at 19:46, Alan Schmitt wrote:

> On 27 Dec 2011, at 11:05, Benny Kj?r Nielsen wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure what to do about this other than making the mailing list 
>> address derivation an optional feature in the preferences. I could 
>> perhaps also never trust an `X-Original-To` header which has been 
>> added before a `Delivered-To` header.
>
> If there is some configuration option I can ask of the inria.fr admins 
> to help this, please let me know.

I'm not very experienced in reading `Received` headers, but it appears 
the original address is lost in one of the final steps. Maybe related to 
some kind of local forwarding, but I really don't know exactly what 
happens (3 different email addresses can be seen in the delivery 
headers). In any case, I need to improve the heuristic for deriving a 
default From address as I have described in the ticket you created. And 
hopefully I can make that work for you as well.

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Multi-line vertical message list for message browsing

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 29 Dec 2011, at 21:02, emory wrote:

> I've been using Postbox a bit lately, a license for it was included in 
> a bundle I purchased.  I really like the way messages are browsed in 
> Postbox in particular, and I was wondering if anyone has come up with 
> a stylesheet for doing a vertical message list in MailMate?
>
> The standard method of a single line makes it hard to fit in the 
> things I'm interested in seeing, the way Mail.app and Postbox and 
> others do it seem to prefer having two rows so that you have:
>
> [Sender] [whitespace] [date & time]
> [Subject/Thread name] [whitespace] [number of messages]
>
> I think the intent for MailMate is that these are user-serviceable by 
> changing and assigning a style sheet but I couldn't see how the layout 
> could be changed that way.

I'm sorry, but that is currently not possible. It requires a new view 
type since a multi-line layout as described above would not work well in 
the current messages outline. It requires sorting to be handled 
differently and enabling/disabling columns does not really make sense. 
Functionally, I would say the messages outline is most often better, but 
visually the multi-line style can be nicer and it works well in a 
widescreen layout.

If I ever implement such a view, I would probably do it in such a way 
that it was customizable with respect to what was displayed, but this is 
not close to the top of my list, so don't expect anything.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] MailMate beta available (r2604)

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

## MailMate status

It has been a while since the latest public release of MailMate (2 
months). Usually, a small group of beta testers use the iterations of 
MailMate between public releases, but this has not been the case this 
time. Mainly because some of the changes have been to core parts of 
MailMate and several things had to be done before it could be used to 
replace the latest public release of MailMate.

## Download beta

You can help me out by testing the most recent beta of MailMate before 
its official release. It can be downloaded by holding down ? while 
selecting the ?MailMate ? Software Update ? Check Now...? menu 
item. Alternatively, you can [download it 
here](http://updates.mailmate-app.com/archives/MailMate_r2604.tbz).

If you download it then I recommend you do the following:

* Open ?Preferences ? General? and enable the crash log 
submissions (?Phone Home?).
* Open ?Preferences ? Software Update? and make it watch for 
?Beta builds?.

## Is there an HTML composer in MailMate now?

No, not really. The HTML body part of this message was generated by 
MailMate, because the message was written using so-called Markdown 
syntax. That is, the message has two alternative body parts. A plain 
text body part which looks exactly as I wrote it, and an HTML body part 
which is generated automatically based on the plain text. I'll write 
more about that in a future blog post, but I think it's a pretty cool 
:-) You need to enable it in the Composer pane of the Preferences if you 
want to try it out yourself. You can [go 
here](http://blog.freron.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/preview.html) to 
get an idea of what is possible using this feature.

**Note:** I'm not 100% sure that the mailing list software is not going 
to mangle this message some way. And I have no idea what happens if you 
have chosen to receive messages in the digest format (but you really 
shouldn't use that anyways).

## Release notes

Detailed release notes are shown when you launch MailMate.

## Feedback

Provide feedback on this list or via the ?Help ? Send Feedback...? 
menu item. Whatever you think is most appropriate. Don't use the issues 
reporter since it could confuse non-beta users.

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Markdown

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Jan 2012, at 17:51, Olivier BEDOUELLE wrote:

> It's possible to place the default style Markdown when I reply a 
> message ?

If I understand your question correctly then the answer is partly given 
in the 
[manual](http://manual.mailmate-app.com/preferences#markup_support):

* When replying to a message, markup language is disabled if the 
received message does not have the markup parameter or if the markup 
language is unknown

The reasoning for this is not given in the manual, but if the message 
received is not known to be Markdown text then it could contain 
Markdown-markup which was not intended to be markup. I have already 
noted that this could be improved such that MailMate tries to check if 
the text is safe to quote in a Markdown reply (a definition of 
?safe? is then needed).

In other words, it is probably not often a problem in practice to always 
enable Markdown, but for now MailMate simply plays it safe by always 
disabling Markdown when replying to non-Markdown messages.

> [... very long signature...]

You may want to consider a shorter signature for the mailing list. Just 
select it for your next message and the dynamic signatures system should 
remember it for you when posting to the mailing list in the future ;-)

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Feature Request: Support for notes (like Apple Mail)

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 6 Jan 2012, at 23:10, Mike Brasch wrote:

> Maybe with some "sugar" like displaying
>
> - foo
> - bar
>
> like a HTML list.

I just tried creating a note in Leopard Apple Mail and it supports 
bulleted lists (Format ? Lists ? Inserted Bulleted List). This note 
was placed in the Inbox. I'm guessing the same can be done on Lion, but 
I cannot test that right now. I also tried creating a note on my iPhone 
and that note appeared in a special Notes mailbox within my IMAP 
account.

Well, the main point of the above is that it is necessary to do some 
reengineering to support notes since it is not a documented format (as 
far as I know). Also, the notes are saved as HTML which is not supported 
by MailMate when editing although that part could perhaps be handled by 
some Markdown <-> HTML conversion.

The following is the raw version of the note created on the iPhone:

~~~
Subject: My first note...
 From: =?utf-8?Q?Benny_Kj=C3=A6r_Nielsen?= <... at freron.com>
X-Universally-Unique-Identifier: 0811AAB1-6B98-4236-A762-AC8CCDEAB7D4
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
X-Uniform-Type-Identifier: com.apple.mail-note
Message-Id: 
Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 23:19:33 +0100
X-Mail-Created-Date: Fri, 06 Jan 2012 23:19:33 +0100
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0)

My first note...
~~~ 

It seems quite straightforward to create such a message, but it would 
have been nice if it had been `text/plain` instead of `text/html`. I 
tried manually creating a `text/plain` note and it did appear on my 
iPhone, but it was converted to `text/html` when I edited it.

I'll give it some more thought. Comments are welcome if anyone has some 
insight in how Apples notes work.

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] These filters are awesome, but also confusing to me.

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 11 Jan 2012, at 3:44, Seebs wrote:

> If a message comes to me with X-Spam-Flag: YES, I want to 
> automatically move it to junk.
>
> I can make a smart mailbox named Spam which holds all of these 
> messages, but I can't seem to figure out an event that will do the 
> same sort of thing.  I tried setting up an account.synchronize which 
> looks for things with #source.path = 'My Spam Box', but of course this 
> doesn't work because that's not really the source.
>
> I haven't yet found any documentation explaining what the options for 
> filters are, so I don't know what I can or can't do; for instance, I 
> don't know of a way to examine a header in a mmCommand.

I know you figured out how to do this, but for the sake of ?clarity? 
I have a few comments:

The `.mmCommand` files are currently the only way to make rules. It is 
still not certain that I won't change the format of these files. The 
only documentation is the comments in this file:

MailMate.app/Contents/SharedSupport/Scripts/Strip\ MailMan\ 
Footer.mmCommand

(And I'm afraid those comments are not complete.)

The best way to figure out the `select` value is to setup a smart 
mailbox within MailMate and then look for the corresponding `filter` 
value in:

~/Library/Application\ Support/MailMate/Mailboxes.plist

With respect to figuring out what is possible using the header 
specifiers (such as `from.address.domain`) then the following may be 
useful:


MailMate.app/Contents/Frameworks/OakMIME.framework/Resources/specifiers.plist

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Put a message in context

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 11 Jan 2012, at 10:37, Alan Schmitt wrote:

> Let's say I have a link to a message (of the form "message:?"). If I 
> click it, I get a new MailMate window open with the message.
>
> Is there any way to view this message in its context (i.e., in the 
> mailbox where it is stored), so that I can see what the replies were, 
> or what referenced messages are?

No, but I think it is a good feature request. Maybe it should also be 
the default behavior. The question is if it should also be optional 
behavior.

Taken to the extreme MailMate could allow you to define exactly what 
messages should be shown together with the opened message, but that may 
be overkill. It could for example show all messages with the same 
correspondents (and automatically select the opened message among 
these).

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Creating a folder

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 11 Jan 2012, at 19:58, James Pearson wrote:

> I'd like to create some folders to hold / categorize my smart 
> mailboxes .. like the "Examples" folder that came with my MailMate 
> install.
>
> I can't seem to find a way to do this though.  Am I missing something?

No, you are not. There is no way to create such mailboxes in the GUI. 
You can either create a dummy smart mailbox (matching nothing) or quit 
MailMate and edit the following file:

~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Mailboxes.plist

But take a backup copy first, because you could lose it if you make a 
mistake (although MailMate may make a copy if it cannot parse it -- 
cannot remember right now :-) ).

It may also be possible to duplicate the Examples mailbox if it is 
empty, but that is not exactly an intuitive workaround.

And I'll make yet another note that I should make this functionality 
available in the GUI.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] "Save" button for attachments

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 13 Jan 2012, at 10:04, Alan Schmitt wrote:

> On 13 Jan 2012, at 10:03, Thomas Eckhold wrote:
>
>> Good point. However, I usually want to save an attachment into a 
>> specific folder (using "Save attachment...") and use the option in 
>> the contextual menu (mouse right-click) to do so.
>
> I would then request for a preference to set the default folder where 
> to save. But one feature request at a time ;-)
>
>> Therefore, a "button" which would allow to save a single or *all* 
>> attachments (like in MailApp) would be even better.
>
> This is what I had in mind.

Noted.

There is a related discussion on the tracker: 
http://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/208

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Remembering previously used addresses

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 13 Jan 2012, at 14:38, Alan Schmitt wrote:

>> I'm used to address autocompletion, but it seems that mailmate does 
>> not remember an address when it's used. Is there a way to enable 
>> this?
>
> For some reason I wanted to write another message to the list, and 
> this time it remembered the address. I'll see if I'm able to reproduce 
> it (the non-remembering), and will find a bug if it happens again.

Note that MailMate only uses the messages in ?Sent Messages? for 
finding addresses for the autocompletion (and the Address Book of 
course). This is currently not configurable.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Remembering previously used addresses

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 13 Jan 2012, at 15:24, Alan Schmitt wrote:

>> Note that MailMate only uses the messages in ?Sent Messages? for 
>> finding addresses for the autocompletion (and the Address Book of 
>> course). This is currently not configurable.
>
> I see. And as I regularly clean-up "Sent Messages", it will fail most 
> of the time.

It may be improved since the experimental feature discussed in the 
following ticket has the same problem:

http://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/213-keep-replies-in-same-folder

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] How does Mute work?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 16 Jan 2012, at 23:47, James Pearson wrote:

> I'm not clear on how "Mute" is suppose to work?

I'm glad you ask since it's not really documented. I'll put something 
similar to the following description in the manual. Since I'm not 
currently using the feature myself then I may have forgotten some of the 
details (it may even be buggy):

It is a mailing list oriented feature. When a message is muted it 
affects all replies for the message arriving in the future. Two actions 
are taken:

* Replies to muted messages are automatically muted themselves and 
marked as read.
* If the muted parent is in a different mailbox (for example, because it 
has been archived or deleted) then the replies are moved to the same 
mailbox.

The result of this is that a muted message triggers future messages 
received in the same thread to be handled automatically. The purpose is 
to more easily follow a high traffic list by letting you decide that you 
no longer want to see messages in a given thread.

There is an exception though. If a message in the subthread is addressed 
directly to one of your known identities then the muting is 
automatically disabled. I can see in the code that I do not stop the 
muting if the subject changes. I should probably do that as well.

The feature is implemented by setting an IMAP keyword named `$Muted` on 
muted messages. When a new message arrives, MailMate looks for this 
keyword in the parent message.

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Spam complaints from MailMate?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 21 Jan 2012, at 23:37, Seebs wrote:

> So, I am sorta old fashioned and actually try to complain about some 
> of my spam.  To do this, in the past, I've been using formail to strip 
> the last received header (note:  Before you point out that this is 
> stupid, consider that I have a mail setup in which after mail is 
> delivered to my mailbox, an extra header is added to it internally) 
> and send a copy to some suitable mailbox.

I would never tell you that anything was stupid. On the contrary, thank 
you for telling (reminding?) me about `formail`.

> So "forward" is nearly right,

I assume you mean ?Forward as Attachment??

> except that in Mailmate, that makes it into an uneditable attachment.  
> I don't want that; I want something sort of like a reply, except that 
> I want absolutely completely full headers -- with the spurious last 
> Received header removed since overworked abuse desks tend to 
> misinterpret it.
>
> Is this the sort of thing I can reasonably configure Mailmate to do?

No, not within MailMate. When MailMate (eventually) supports commands to 
be run on currently selected messages then I would tell you to use that 
to send the spam message to a script running `formail` and then end the 
script with something like:

open -a MailMate edited_message.msg

The best you can do now is to drag the message out of MailMate. I just 
tried using Automator to create an application which runs a script when 
dragging a message to it. That seems to work fine. I used the following 
dummy script based on the default script in Automator when creating a 
?Run Shell Script? action:

for f in "$@"
do
cat "$f" > /tmp/spam.msg
open -a MailMate.app /tmp/spam.msg
done

Note that I currently use the `.msg` extension instead of `.eml`. 
MailMate is a bit too intelligent with `.eml` since based on the 
`Message-ID` of the message it locates and opens its own version of the 
same message...

I hope some of the above is useful to you.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Reading and archiving threads

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 23 Jan 2012, at 9:13, Alan Schmitt wrote:

> I'm using the "Organize by thread" option, which gives me a very Mutt 
> like (although folded) view of the messages of a thread. 
> Unfortunately, I haven't found a workflow that easily lets me read and 
> archive a thread. More precisely, if I keep the thread folded, every 
> message (including unread ones) will be archived if I archive it. So I 
> first need to unfold the thread (right arrow), then archive the 
> message.

Note that holding down ? expands the entire thread when using right 
arrow or clicking on the triangle (standard Mac OS X feature). Another 
useful feature may be ?Select Thread? (??A) - to archive after 
reading the thread (even if not using ?Organize by Thread?).

But I can see that the above would not be optimal.

> Could there be a "archive this message and jump to next unread in 
> thread" keyboard shortcut?

I've just added 4 actions to the messages outline to be used for key 
bindings. After the next update you should be able to make a key binding 
like:

"a" = ( "expand:", "archive:" );

That should automatically expand the thread before archiving the 
currently selected message(s). The next one is then automatically 
selected if you are in a mailbox not showing archived messages. If you 
need to explicitly move to the next (unread) message then it can be done 
as follows:

"a" = ( "expand:", "archive:", "nextUnreadMessage:" );

The `expand:` selector may be the (only) useful one, but for the sake of 
completion I've introduced:

expand:
collapse:
expandThread:
collapseThread:

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Spam complaints from MailMate?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 23 Jan 2012, at 18:17, Seebs wrote:

>> I assume you mean ?Forward as Attachment??
>
> Actually, no.  MH's forward basically just did "s/^/>/" on the message 
> and inlined it.

[...]

>> The best you can do now is to drag the message out of MailMate. I 
>> just tried using Automator to create an application which runs a 
>> script when dragging a message to it.
>
> Ohh!
>
> That'd be fine, I can make an app.  I didn't realize messages could be 
> dragged onto apps.

And in case you had not yet realized it then if you would like to inline 
text in the message (instead of an attachment) then you can use a 
`mailto:` URL like this:

open "mailto:someone at somewhere.com?subject=Test&body=Text"

-- 
Benny
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[MlMt] Mailing lists and Mailmate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 25 Jan 2012, at 21:12, Seebs wrote:

> 1.  I would like a Reply-To-List button.

Noted.

> 2.  If I drag an address from To to Cc, or vice versa, I think the 
> default should be to move it rather than duplicating it.  I can't see 
> any benefit to having one address in two recipient fields.

I agree. I use Apples NSTokenField class for the address fields and so 
far I have been unable to track drag'n'drop actions such that I could 
remove an address from a source NSTokenField. If anyone has any code 
which does something like that (for NSTokenFields) then please let me 
know. I've forgotten the ugly details, but (to me) it was a non-trivial 
problem. (The workaround is of course to use cut and copy instead.)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Mailing lists and Mailmate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 26 Jan 2012, at 0:27, Seebs wrote:

> On 25 Jan 2012, at 17:23, Benny Kj?r Nielsen wrote:
>
>> I agree. I use Apples NSTokenField class for the address fields and 
>> so far I have been unable to track drag'n'drop actions such that I 
>> could remove an address from a source NSTokenField. If anyone has any 
>> code which does something like that (for NSTokenFields) then please 
>> let me know. I've forgotten the ugly details, but (to me) it was a 
>> non-trivial problem. (The workaround is of course to use cut and copy 
>> instead.)
>
> Well, it must be possible, 'cuz I think Apple Mail does it.

I almost decided to give an answer to that argument in my first reply 
:-) First, anything is possible and I did not claim that it was not 
possible to do it. I claimed it was non-trivial. It may be trivial to 
Apple, because they can access private APIs or they can make their own 
variant of NSTokenField for Apple Mail based on the source code. I have 
to either re-implement NSTokenField or find some way to make it do what 
I want using the public API (if I use private API then I risk that it is 
not going to work in future updates of Mac OS X and I'm definitely out 
of the App Store). So, my claim is that it is non-trivial to make 
NSTokenField do what I want under the restrictions imposed by the public 
API (and any bugs in NSTokenField). Now, I may be wrong and that is why 
I asked for example code if anyone knew this to be the case.

> Cheap workaround:  If a token is dragged into a field, and you notice 
> that the token occurs only in one other field, of the same basic type, 
> you can just remove it from that field and be right 99% of the time.  
> Do this only if option wasn't down for the drag and it'll look like 
> you're moving-or-copying the way people expect that to work, I think?

Now that may not be a bad idea, but the problem with NSTokenField is 
that it is difficult to monitor drag events. As I wrote previously I 
forgot the ugly details, but as I recall I concluded that the only way 
forward was probably to subclass the so-called field editor (for those 
who know Cocoa) and that was when I decided that it wasn't currently 
worth the effort.

> More generally, you could have a preference with a name like "only 
> allow a given address once in recipient fields".  At that point, 
> adding an address to a field implicity removes it from all others.  In 
> practice we probably want that anyway.

Good point. This also gives me an idea for a workaround in which I don't 
directly monitor dragging events, but instead monitor paste events and 
token insertions to implicitly monitor dragging events. It would not be 
perfect, but maybe it would be good enough.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Mailing lists and Mailmate

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 26 Jan 2012, at 8:57, Seebs wrote:

>> Now that may not be a bad idea, but the problem with NSTokenField is 
>> that it is difficult to monitor drag events. As I wrote previously I 
>> forgot the ugly details, but as I recall I concluded that the only 
>> way forward was probably to subclass the so-called field editor (for 
>> those who know Cocoa) and that was when I decided that it wasn't 
>> currently worth the effort.
>
> Eww.
>
> No usable delegate for events?

No, NSTokenField handles drag'n'drop itself and does not provide any 
easy way to augment or replace that behavior.

> FWIW, casual searching on my part shows only people saying "I wanted 
> drag and drop so I had to subclass".

I already subclass NSTokenField and I believe I've googled and read 
everything related to NSTokenField. It took far to long before I gave up 
;-)

And speaking of ways to change the behavior of NSTokenField/NSTextField, 
I would love being able to customize the view used for the list of 
suggested completions. It should show where the address was found and 
when it was last used, but I cannot do that either (without 
re-implementing everything myself).

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] 2 queries

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 26 Jan 2012, at 12:29, Ross Paterson wrote:

> Not sure how this works, but have just switched to Mailmate.

Thanks for choosing MailMate.

> 2 questions:
> 1. I like to create subfolders to store different kinds of emails, but 
> that does not seem to work with the smartfolder system. e.g. emails of 
> a certain category kept in a subfolder. Any clues?

Smart folders are not real folders. They are views of the messages in 
the real mailboxes in your IMAP accounts. You can create a hierarchy of 
real mailboxes in one your of your IMAP accounts (under SOURCES) and you 
can then either use drag'n'drop to move messages into them or use 
??T.

Personally, I just archive messages using ?Move to Archive? and the 
messages are then moved into an IMAP mailbox named Archive within the 
same account. If I need to see a special set of messages I most often 
search (or create a smart mailbox).

With respect to smart mailboxes, it can be useful to mark messages using 
?Mark as Flagged?. It is also possible to use [custom key 
bindings][1] to introduce other tags (there is currently no GUI for 
that, but IMAP keywords are supported). An advanced example of the use 
of a smart mailbox (and tagging) can be seen [here][2]. The example 
shows how to easily keep track of whether or not you have received 
replies to messages for which you are waiting for replies.

[1]: http://manual.mailmate-app.com/custom_key_bindings#special_actions
[2]: http://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/224

> 2. I cannot get an html email (with graphics etc) to forward as that, 
> as all seem just plain text when forwarded. Any clues?

MailMate (and I) are not so fond of HTML emails. The composer can only 
handle plain text although recently it also supports [Markdown][3] for 
generating HTML emails (but you probably knew that):

[3]: http://manual.mailmate-app.com/preferences#markup_support

You can ?Message ? Forward as Attachment? to forward the original 
message as you received it. In all other cases MailMate prefers the 
plain text alternative if available in the message.

I have no plans to make an HTML composer, but I may introduce a HTML 
? Markdown transformation to handle some use cases better. (I hope you 
are not too disappointed with that answer.)

(Off-topic: Your message and my reply are good examples of when Markdown 
fails to work as intended. It is impossible to split up an 
auto-enumerated list in a reply without ruining the enumeration. This is 
one of several examples which makes it desirable to define and implement 
a Markdown variant designed for email usage.)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] iCloud Access

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 27 Jan 2012, at 16:57, Steve Hodgson wrote:

> I've been having problems connecting to MobileMe and wondered if 
> MailMate will pick-up changes made to my Apple Mail account settings 
> or whether there are any settings I need to change.

No, MailMate does not pick up any changes. MailMate only offers to 
import Apple Mail IMAP account settings (not messages) and Thunderbird 
IMAP account settings. And this is based on re-engineering which means 
that I read private files. There is no other way since there is no 
official API for this.

With respect to your problems then I need more information. What fails? 
How often? What does MailMate tell you? And maybe, what are your account 
settings (send by private mail if you like)?

I don't have a MobileMe account myself. Maybe someone else one this list 
has one for comparison?

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] order of mail address completion?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Feb 2012, at 10:11, Alan Schmitt wrote:

> I'm trying to understand how mail address suggestions (when typing an 
> address in the "To" field) are ordered. Is it possible to tweak it so 
> that recently emailed addresses appear first?

This is how it is supposed to work with the caveat that Address Book 
email addresses are currently treated as if they had been emailed 30 
days ago (yes, it's a hack).

But the problem you have is probably related to where you keep your sent 
messages. MailMate uses the ?Sent Messages? mailbox to find out who 
you write to and when you have done it. If you move them out of ?Sent 
Messages? (maybe using the experimental 
`MmMoveSentRepliesToMailboxOfRepliedMessage`) then it won't work.

Hmm, I was going to point you to this discussion: 
http://freron.lighthouseapp.com/projects/58672/tickets/219

The problem is that you are also the creator of that ticket, so you 
probably already use the solution described in the ticket. If you have 
used ALL_MESSAGES for MmAddressCompletionMailbox then that may be your 
problem. Then completion is based on the recipient of any message and 
not the ones you have sent. Could that explain the suggestions you see? 
Otherwise I'll probably need a detailed example.

Maybe you could try creating a smart mailbox showing all messages with 
your name in the From header and then use that mailbox for completions. 
(I'll think about how to solve this problem in general.)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] order of mail address completion?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Feb 2012, at 11:07, Alan Schmitt wrote:

>> Maybe you could try creating a smart mailbox showing all messages 
>> with your name in the From header and then use that mailbox for 
>> completions. (I'll think about how to solve this problem in general.)
>
> I've done that, but I have a followup question: I named this smart 
> mailbox "My Sent Messages", what name should I pass to the command 
> line? Is it "MY_SENT_MESSAGES"?

Sorry, I didn't think about that. It's more tricky than that. Only 
standard mailboxes have ?easy? names. A smart mailbox has a UUID 
which you can find in the following plain text file:

~/Library/Application Support/MailMate/Mailboxes.plist

A description of the variations of the mailbox identifier can be seen in 
the middle of this subsection in the manual: 
http://manual.mailmate-app.com/custom_key_bindings#special_actions

(These technical details would of course be hidden by the GUI if the 
preferences had a popup for selecting the mailbox used for completions.)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] order of mail address completion?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Feb 2012, at 11:59, Alan Schmitt wrote:

>> A description of the variations of the mailbox identifier can be seen 
>> in the middle of this subsection in the manual: 
>> http://manual.mailmate-app.com/custom_key_bindings#special_actions
>
> Thanks. I changed it, and I it seems to be putting recently used 
> addresses closer to the top. It seems that the frequency also matters 
> (if I emailed someone many times, it may come before a person I 
> emailed just once but very recently). Is this the case?

No. It only depends on the date (I've checked the related code). If you 
have a counter example then it would be nice if you could provide a set 
of example messages which result in this behavior.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] order of mail address completion?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 2 Feb 2012, at 13:13, Alan Schmitt wrote:

> On 2 Feb 2012, at 12:17, Benny Kj?r Nielsen wrote:
>
>> No. It only depends on the date (I've checked the related code). If 
>> you have a counter example then it would be nice if you could provide 
>> a set of example messages which result in this behavior.
>
> I'll try to find time to produce an example, but it will take time (I 
> need to find messages that don't contain private information, move 
> them to a mailbox, set the mailbox for the suggestions, and hope the 
> bug is reproducible).
>
> I did experiment a bit, and this is what I found:
> - entering a second character works most of the time (i.e., the 
> suggestion with just one character is wrong, but with two it works 
> most of the time);
> - addresses that do not have a name associated with them (pure 
> addresses) require many additional letters before climbing to the top 
> of the selection.

The above helped me spot a problem although it does not quite explain 
what you see. Currently, an address-only (no name) message is skipped if 
MailMate has already seen a message with both name and address. 
Unfortunately, this also means that the date of the address-only message 
is forgotten. I'll fix this and I'll notify you when there is a test 
build with this change, so you can see how it affects what you see.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Messages going to wrong box?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 7 Feb 2012, at 2:25, Seebs wrote:

> [...]
>   { type = moveMessage; mailbox = Second; },
> [...]
>
> All the messages acted on by this rule are "marked as junk" instead.

I checked the code and this is a bug triggered by the unexpected 
argument to 'mailbox' above. I've fixed it.

> They do not go into the mailbox I wanted them to go into.
>
> If it matters, the name "Second" is a placeholder; the actual name is 
> not junk, but does start with a J.

It kind of matters with respect to the bug. First note the four types of 
mailbox destinations described in a mostly unrelated part of the manual 
(http://manual.mailmate-app.com/custom_key_bindings#special_actions). 
I'll repeat them here for convenience:

1. The UUID of a smart mailbox (see ~/Library/Application 
Support/Mailboxes.plist)
2. A standard mailbox name such as inbox, archive, drafts, sent, junk, 
and trash.
3. A full path for a mailbox within an account such as 
imap://you at imap.example.com/Special
4. A mailbox path without an account such as /Special.

The value you used is not covered by any of these options and MailMate 
should just have failed to move the messages. Instead MailMate tried to 
guess a mailbox which it shouldn't do in this case (the guessing is 
related to the standard mailbox types for which there are no standard 
server-side names).

You probably want to use '/Second' instead.

(Sorry about the lack of documentation. These 'rule'-files are still 
experimental. I'm currently working on changing this as part of the 
introduction of commands. It is not unlikely that this is also going to 
change some of the syntax used.)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Messages going to wrong box?

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 7 Feb 2012, at 9:56, Seebs wrote:

>>  4. A mailbox path without an account such as /Special.
>
> Ah-hah!  Yes, that's what I was missing.

Good.

> BTW, I have a new complaint about this program:  It has made my day 
> job much less pleasant, because for Sound Technical Reasons I can't do 
> my work email on a Mac reasonably.

Thanks... I think.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Feature Request: Editing Received or Sent Message

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 7 Feb 2012, at 9:57, Bob Stern wrote:

> Permit editing of subject and body of received or sent messages 
> (without creating a new outgoing message).

This violates the standards and it would be inefficient with respect to 
IMAP servers. The only way to update a message on an IMAP server is to 
delete it and then upload a new one (then imagine a message with a 10MB 
attachment).

> This is an important feature to long-time Eudora users.

I have had a request once before for the editing of the subject line. 
This was for correcting bad subject lines. If I implemented a solution 
for that then it would be by using some kind of alternative subject line 
shown instead of the real subject line. The problem is that this would 
only work locally (not uploaded to the IMAP server).

I'm not sure why you would want to edit the body of a message (other 
than stripping attachments which is a feature not implemented yet), but 
I assume it is because you would like to add some notes for later 
reference? If this is the case then I have considered some kind of 
note-system implemented by saving notes in a (special) reply to the 
message. These notes could (optionally) be in a separate mailbox and 
MailMate could hide this mailbox and instead show the notes inline with 
the original message. But I haven't done any work on that.

> Editing the subject is very important to ensure it includes keywords 
> that intersect smart mailboxes and searches.

Ok, that sounds more like a request for better tagging support in 
MailMate, but I can see how you could use the subject line to do this.

> The editing of the message body should include adding color, bold, 
> italic and underline to selected text.  Color is very important 
> because it is more conspicuous than the other attributes.

Sorry, but that's not on the todo. Just being honest. Part of the 
explanation can be found here: 
http://blog.freron.com/2011/thoughts-on-writing-emails-using-markdown/

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Feature Request: Coloring Text in Outgoing Messages

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 7 Feb 2012, at 9:57, Bob Stern wrote:

> Permit adding color to selected text in outgoing messages.
>
> Color is very important because it is more conspicuous than bold or 
> italics.

Some receivers (like me) prefer to receive messages without color. Or at 
least only the coloring that I configure myself (for quote levels and 
emphasized words). Ideally, I believe that the sender of a message 
should only decide how the message is structured and what parts should 
be emphasized (the semantics), and the receiver should decide how it 
looks, e.g., whether an emphasized word should be bold, colored, or 
something else.

The exception is marketing emails like the ones coming from Apple, but 
they are essentially just web pages by email.

> Even Eudora, which lacks a true HTML engine, implements text color.

Sounds interesting, but I assume they do this by generating HTML? This 
resembles the handling of Markdown in MailMate which can be used to 
emphasize words (and many other things) and optionally generate an HTML 
body part. I'm considering allowing the generated HTML to be accompanied 
by some default styling which could include colors. That's currently the 
best I can offer you as a 'maybe in the future'.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Feature Request: Default Mailbox Display Format

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 7 Feb 2012, at 9:57, Bob Stern wrote:

> Permit user to define a "default" display format based on the display 
> format of a given mailbox (column selection, column order, and font). 
> Permit specifying this as the format of all new viewer windows. Permit 
> applying this format to one or more selected mailboxes.

Note the ?Use as Default Columns? menu item if you haven't seen it. 
Changes to column selection, order and threading type are saved for 
individual mailboxes. What is your use case for using different fonts 
for different mailboxes?

(Fonts are changed for the various parts of the interface using 
?Format ? Show Fonts?, but they cannot be set for individual 
mailboxes.)

On a related note. If you need to reset what MailMate has stored about 
the preferred column selection, order, etc. for individual mailboxes 
then it can be done using the following in the Terminal (quit MailMate 
first):

defaults remove com.freron.MailMate MmMailboxRelatedStates

Thanks for the feedback!

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Custom Search: remember search settings

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 7 Feb 2012, at 11:35, Torsten Grust wrote:

> one small things: when I do a Custom Search (via ??F) I almost 
> always
> find myself adjusting the `From' default to something else (quite 
> often
> `Common Headers or Body').
>
> That's inefficient -- I need to move fingers from keyboard to mouse 
> and
> back.
>
> Could MailMate possibly remember non-default settings for `From' (and
> `contains', I guess) between searches?

Good idea: ?Edit ? Find ? Use as Default Search? ;-)

(I know, it is very hard to discover.)

> P.S.: I *do* love the app and find myself adjusting/extending 
> Mailboxes.plist
> and specificiers.plist all the time. :-)

I didn't know anyone dared to touch the specifiers.plist :-) Please 
share if you make something that would be useful for other users. I may 
change how it works in the future, but that is mostly related to where 
custom specifiers can be configured (it's a bit monolithic at the moment 
and it is possible to change/override specifiers which are important to 
MailMate, i.e., it can make MailMate crash and behave in strange ways).

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Feature Request: Default Mailbox Display Format

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 7 Feb 2012, at 11:34, Bob Stern wrote:

>> Note the "Use as Default Columns" menu item if you haven't seen it. 
>> Changes to column selection, order and threading type are saved for 
>> individual mailboxes.
>
> I had overlooked that.  Perfect!
>
>> What is your use case for using different fonts for different 
>> mailboxes?
>
> I did not want to use different fonts, but different column displayed 
> in different mailboxes.
>
> Specifically, for the Sent mailbox I want to display To but not From, 
> for most non-smart mailboxes I want From but not To, and for smart 
> mailboxes I want both From and To if I am searching across both sent 
> and received mail.

Ah yes, that works out of the box for the universal mailboxes (those 
under MAILBOXES), but for some reason it does not work for Sent/Drafts 
under SOURCES. I should fix that.

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Custom Search: remember search settings

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 7 Feb 2012, at 12:04, Torsten Grust wrote:

> My use case: I am associate editor of a database journal (TKDE, please
> submit your best work there ;-) and am concurrently handling 
> correspondence regarding papers under review.  The publisher's systems 
> uses the subject line to include a marker that designates papers, e.g.

Great example. I am hoping to introduce a system for making it easier to 
group and share such customizations.

> In `Mailboxes.plist` I then created a virtual TKDE mailbox that groups 
> its messages by `tkde-paper` (and `tkde-revision`, if present):

Perfect. There is really no good reason that feature is not available in 
the GUI :-)

> P.S. I used MarkDown in this message.  Another great thing.

Unfortunately, MailMan (the mailing list software) strips the markup 
parameter from the message. It actually works if HTML generation is 
enabled and then the markup parameter is not stripped from the plain 
text body part. Not sure what to do about it other than trying to patch 
MailMan (but that'll then only work for the MailMate list). I've 
considered adding an extra header to plain text mailing list messages, 
but it feels redundant and I'm actually not sure that MailMan would 
leave such a header alone.

(If I remember correctly then it may also work if I tell MailMan to not 
add a footer to the messages.)

-- 
Benny

[MlMt] Writing in a format that is not utf 8

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 9 Feb 2012, at 8:19, Alan Schmitt wrote:

> I interact with a computer program by email (a Diplomacy judge to be 
> precise) that mangles text with accents. It seems it's because I send 
> the messages as utf 8 but it interprets and forwards them as 
> ISO-8859-1. Is there a way to tell MailMate to send a particular 
> message in a different encoding?

No. I was also hoping such problems were an issue of the past. At least, 
you are the first to ask about this. Any chance that this (serious) bug 
could be fixed in the receiving computer program?

Anyone else on the list with similar problems?

-- 
Benny

Re: [MlMt] MailMate crash followed by partial start

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 16 Mar 2022, at 17:42, Raza Rizvi wrote:


One minute I am working away in MailMate when it crashes.

I restarted it and the dock icon shows the message count but no 
further windows.


That sounds very strange, but maybe easier to debug by direct email. 
Write me via “Help > Send Feedback” (if that works).


You can also see if the most recent test release works any better: 
[MailMate_r5876.tbz](https://updates.mailmate-app.com/archives/MailMate_r5876.tbz)


The console log shows a batch of "UNIX error exception: 17" and some 
"CSSMERR_DL_DATASTORE_DOESNOT_EXIST" messages against MailMate, and 
previous conversations indicate that the latter message can appear for 
Keychain Access held items but I can see nothing obvious incorrect or 
duplicated or missing.


I *think* it should be more along the lines of an entire keychain being 
broken/missing.


--
Benny
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Re: [MlMt] "Delete" key won't delete messages from browser

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 14 Mar 2022, at 22:51, Dave Carpenter wrote:

> I don’t know when it changed, but now when I highlight a message in the 
> message browser and press Delete, nothing happens.

Which mailbox are you viewing? Note that some mailboxes (like the ones under 
Sources) show emails in all mailboxes of each account. This means that deleting 
a message just means that it's moved to a different mailbox and it will seem 
like nothing happens (in retrospect, this was not a good design decision).

You can always enable the “Source Mailbox” column in the message list to know 
the exact IMAP location of a given message.

-- 
Benny
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Re: [MlMt] OK, it's not ME...

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 14 Mar 2022, at 19:20, Randall Meadows wrote:

Follow-up, FWIW...upgrading to Monterey seems to have made the first 
two issues (menu flashing and context switching) disappear (with no 
change to the version of MailMate).


Well, I didn't have much of an idea of those anyways. The menu flashing 
should only happen if triggering a menu command (and the flashing is 
done by Apple code). Note that ⌘+down is bound to “Next Message” 
though. That might be accidentally triggered.



The narcolepsy problem still exists, though. :(


You can try catching it with this command:

sample MailMate 10 > ~/Desktop/mailmate_sample.txt

I had a similar report recently. In that case, I believe it was 
triggered by the arrival of messages combined with a large message 
store, and an antivirus program scanning database index files every time 
the database was updated.


--
Benny
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Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 6 Apr 2022, at 18:16, Erik Mueller-Harder wrote:

> Is my only recourse to figure out how to download Python 2.7 and install it 
> properly in `/usr/bin/`?

Don't do that. Instead, go to the Composer preferences pane and switch to 
Juice. This should be the default, but if you ever selected Premailer manually 
then that'll probably override it.

I'll have to look into handling this more gracefully. Premailer might still be 
needed on older macOS releases although I'm not 100% sure that is true any 
longer.

-- 
Benny
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Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 6 Apr 2022, at 18:33, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:

> I have the same version of MailMate as you, I only have python3 installed, 
> and yet Markdown works **fine**.

You are likely using Juice instead of Premailer although it might also be 
related to the macOS release. I think there's a message on the list indicating 
a change on macOS 12.3 which I haven't looked into yet.

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Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 6 Apr 2022, at 19:52, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:

> Yes, I’m using Juice. I’m on 12.3.1, which doesn’t come with Python 2.7 
> anymore. So I can confirm that emate doesn’t work there, currently. The good 
> news is that it appears to be ready for Python 3:
>
> python3 bin/emate mailto -t haged...@uni-koeln.de
>
> works as expected.

Ah, yes, I definitely need to look into this issue. (Apple plans to eventually 
remove most scripting languages currently included with macOS.)

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Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 7 Apr 2022, at 0:21, Erik Mueller-Harder wrote:

I have no idea what Juice is, or Premailer (tho I can guess they’re 
probably Markdown → HTML conversion libraries), or why either one 
would have been selected instead of the other — but I can confirm 
that with Juice selected *finally*​ I can again use Markdown with 
MailMate!


The following is mostly to have something on record on this subject.

Both Juice and Premailer are third party utilities which can be used to 
inline the use of stylesheets (CSS) in HTML email. I'll give an example. 
First, here's the HTML needed to quote some text:


```html

Replied text is quoted.

```

The HTML above could be the result of, e.g., a Markdown converter (where 
MailMate uses the GitHub flavour of `cmark` now). For non-Markdown 
users, MailMate has its own built-in conversion to HTML.


Styling the above can be done by inserting a stylesheet within the HTML. 
That could look something like this:


```css

blockquote {
color: blue;
}

```

Email clients capable of displaying HTML (with CSS) will then make sure 
that blockquotes are blue. This works just like a webpage. That's all 
very nice, but there is a major problem: HTML has no way to handle the 
concept of replied/forwarded HTML, because HTML was designed for 
webpages and not for emails. In particular, the `` tag was 
not designed to be used in emails. If it was, then there would likely be 
some way to have multiple stylesheets to be used at different quote 
levels. (In theory, that could possibly work, but it wouldn't make HTML 
emails less bloated than they already are.)


In practice, the only solution is to get rid of the separate stylesheet 
and make sure all styling is done directly on the HTML tags. For the 
example above, this would mean generating HTML which looks like this:


```html

Replied text is quoted.

```

That would survive nicely if embedded in another reply.

The above is a very simple example. Now, imagine one of those marketing 
emails you receive which looks like a webpage by email. This might 
contain a huge stylesheet doing all sorts of HTML/CSS tricks. 
Essentially, anything possible in a web browser. The user might choose 
to forward it and everthing then goes into a blockquote, but the 
stylesheet affects everything including whatever is written above the 
forwarded HTML. It needs to be inlined like the simple example above, 
but this is extremely complicated (and in some cases impossible). This 
is why MailMate uses a third party utility. In the past, MailMate has 
used Premailer but I've not been very good at keeping it up-to-date and 
some times it has broken down when Apple has changed what is included 
with a default install of macOS. On macOS 12.3, it broke completely when 
only `python3` was included. In the beta/test releases I've added the 
option of using Juice which is based on javascript. This is both more 
robust (and faster).


Note: The CSS inliner is also used when printing because this often 
involves merging multiple HTML documents (there might be a way to avoid 
this with the new message view, but I'm not 100% sure).


The latest test release has removed Premailer as an option on macOS 12. 
Hopefully this means fewer issues for users. I understand most of the 
above is likely nonsense for most users :)


I'm a bit unsure if Juice works properly all the way back to macOS 10.12 
(which MailMate still supports) which is why I haven't removed Premailer 
completely.


I’ll confess that for the last two or three months I’ve been using 
FastMail’s web interface just so I could do the small bit of email 
formatting that I need to do.  I’ve been missing MailMate!  It’s 
good to be back.


I'm glad you are back. I'm aware that the lack of a public release 
working properly on macOS 12 (and to some extent macOS 11) is a major 
problem. (It's important for the future of MailMate that this changes as 
soon as possible.)


Benny, I should have done it long ago, but am now an official Patron.  
Thank you so much for the care and dedication you’ve poured into 
this indispensable app.


Thanks for the support! The patrons are currently what keeps MailMate 
running.


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Benny
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Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 9 Apr 2022, at 10:23, Sebastian Hagedorn wrote:


On 9 Apr 2022, at 10:11, Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote:


On macOS 12.3, it broke completely when only python3 was included


Actually macOS 12.3 doesn’t include any python at all. You can get 
python3, but you need to install Xcode for that.


Of course, I completely forgot to check for that. This means `emate` 
still doesn't work in the latest test release (for most users on macOS 
12.3). Instead, I should complete my work on a replacement for `emate`. 
No time frame on that though.


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Re: [MlMt] MailMate needs to be updated warning

[Benny Kjær Nielsen]

On 9 Apr 2022, at 21:57, John Cooper wrote:


Benny Kjær Nielsen wrote (at 1:37 AM on Saturday, Apr 9, 2022):

This means `emate` still doesn't work in the latest test release (for 
most users on macOS 12.3). Instead, I should complete my work on a 
replacement for `emate`. No time frame on that though.


Assuming that emate is something I'd want to help make MailMate fully 
functional, what's the simplest way to make it so? I don't have the 
full Xcode package installed, but I have installed the Xcode 
command-line tools, and homebrew.


If I've got it right then the command line tools should be sufficient, 
that is, the first time you run `emate` then you'll automatically be 
asked to allow macOS to install “Command Line Tools” (no need for a 
full Xcode install). This will install `python3` which works with r5884 
of MailMate. This is only relevant if you need `emate` at all (it's 
essentially just a wrapper for the `mailto:` URL scheme).


In any case, I will likely replace `emate` soon with something that does 
not need `python` at all.


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