Re: Preview on Yosemite | Unable to Read some PDFs

[christopher hallsworth]

What about Nisus Writer Pro as that can apparently read and even edit PDF 
documents.
> On 20 Oct 2014, at 05:15, Nicholas Parsons  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> Yesterday someone else wrote about being unable to read some PDFs. We all 
> assumed this was because the PDFs were images and had not been through an OCR 
> process. I think we were wrong.
> 
> I've been finding some PDFs today at work which VoiceOver will not read. It 
> just says “PDF static text, PDF static text text”. These are PDFs which I 
> have OCR-ed, or were original text-based PDFs, and which until a few days ago 
> I was able to read fine. Interacting twice does not change anything.
> 
> I've tried changing the view, but with no success. No idea why this is 
> happening. If it is a bug it will be a really awful one. Made even worse as 
> ABBYY FineReader has not brought out their update for Yosemite yet.
> 
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RE: mail in 10.10

[M. Taylor]

Hello Pamela,  

You wrote:
"Is it different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?"

It truly saddens me that you feel that the current build of Mail is junky.  

While I think I can understand your frustration, I want you to know that I
and others worked very hard to make sure that the core functionality of the
application was not lost in this, the first commercial release of the
application.  

In the previous version of Mail, using the VoiceOver + arrow key combos made
sense in terms of the order in which items were placed into focus.  Now, as
you have no doubt discovered, navigating from the Mailboxes Table to the
Messages table, for example, is no longer linear.  In fact, the order in
which they appear makes no sense, at all, from a VoiceOver user's
perspective, in my opinion of course.  

Please know that these kinds of things have been bugged and Apple is quite
aware of them.  I do not know why they were not addressed in this release
but rest assured that I and others will continue to press for improvements.


I, personally, don't use the Classic view but, with just one or two little
changes in keystroke combos, the Standard view works just as well as it did
in Maverick.  

I do not write this because I am trying to save face for Apple, I am writing
this because I believe in the power of this application.

I will be happy to help you get your Mail groove back, using Yosemite Mail
by discussing the application in more detail, off-list, should you wish.

Mark

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Francis
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:11 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: mail in 10.10

Hi guys,
Through my involvement with this list, I have constantly heard people
referred to classic view in mail. What is it, how do you get there? Is it
different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?

Pam Francis

On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:27 AM, Nicholas Parsons
 wrote:

Mail 8.0 is working well for me, though in Classic view all messages seem to
be marked as conversations whether they are or not, and in standard view
they are all marked as unread whether they are or not. However, I like the
fact that the unread status is back to the beginning of the info announced
in standard view. Apart from this, it seems snappier than ever, but
responsiveness depends on many factors and your milage may vary.

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Re: osx 10.10

[Krister Ekstrom]

In the ideal world there would be no priorities as to what bugs or issues would 
be fixed or not, but this ain't the ideal world and will never be. Graphics and 
snazzy visual things will *always* have a higher priority because like it or 
not, we're a very, very small minority. So small in fact that with very few 
exceptions, voiceover isn't even mentioned on the big keynotes, nobody sighted 
cares but that doesn't mean our bugs won't get fixed, they will, only not this 
very instant. It's like languages. Some languages get lots of love, others 
don't. For years now i've ranted and complained about Siri not being available 
in the scandinavian languages and to this day, only dictation is  and this also 
may be true with quick type and the like. Some things have priority that's 
higher than others, that's the way of the world. Is it ok? No, but that's the 
way it is.
/Krister

> 20 okt 2014 kl. 02:23 skrev Pamela Francis :
> 
> Hi Buddy,
> I can't disagree with your post, however my question to you is this why when 
> there are visually impaired beta testers under NDA specifically to report 
> issues that deal with accessibility does Apple not pay attention to what is 
> being reported to them? If it was something to do with graphics for the way 
> another file was managed that handled iMessage as an example that was broken 
> having nothing to do with us   it will get fixed. However if the same issue 
> happened to us because of our accessibility needs, we would be further down 
> the queue. That's the issue I have. Is not about special treatment. Our 
> accessibility to their equipment, is as important as any other function of 
> the unit.
> Pam Francis
> 
> On Oct 19, 2014, at 6:33 PM, Buddy Brannan  wrote:
> 
> See, here's the thing. We *are* being treated like everyone else. Now that we 
> have mainstream access to mainstream products, that also means that our bugs 
> get stuck in the queue with everyone else's bugs. They get prioritized along 
> with everybody else's bugs. And they get fixed in the schedule with everybody 
> else's bugs. The tradeoff we get for out of the box accessibility from a 
> mainstream manufacturer is that we don't get special releases or fixes 
> specific to our needs. We get them on the same schedule as everyone else's 
> bugs. Sometimes we may not like the priority our requests get, but it's the 
> price we pay for getting exactly what we've asked for for years. 
> 
> Change is inevitable. iTunes has changed. I'm not a huge fan of the change 
> either, but there it is, and I can still use it, even if I like it less. My 
> like or dislike of it, however, doesn't have any bearing on whether or not 
> it's accessible. Same with Yosemite in general; it's changed. I haven't 
> really had any real problems with it, generally speaking. I mostly like the 
> changes, apart of course for iTunes 12. But I'm definitely not seeing 
> significant accessibility impacts on what I do with OS X from day to day. 
> 
> Yep. Early betas were pretty awful. Early betas for iOS8 were also horribly 
> broken. But that's why they're betas. I've told people who have asked me 
> whether iOS8 is worth having, I've told them that I have a pretty skewed view 
> on that, since by comparison to the early betas, it's really good, so I have 
> no significant complaints. Well...I have to say, I've recently had occasion 
> to look at iTunes Radio, and notice that it doesn't really read the way 
> they're supposed to. I expect it will get fixed in due course, but, again, on 
> Apple's schedule, along with everybody else's bugs, in the queue, in its 
> order, in priority with everybody else's bugs. Because seriously, if you 
> think that we're the only ones dealing with bugs, sometimes really 
> inconvenient bugs, you're at best naive, at worst delusional. 
> 
> Anyway, yes. We have gotten exactly what we've been asking for. That 
> sometimes means unpleasant side effects. Myself, I'm happy to take the 
> unpleasant side effects as a part of the whole package. Does this make me an 
> Apple apologist? Does this mean that I'm willing to settle for the crumbs 
> from the table, as it were, and am content with my lot as a second-class 
> citizen? far from it. It means I recognize that my problems are a subset of 
> all the problems that Apple is dealing with to make things work, sometimes in 
> the face of pretty significant change. 
> 
> Absolutely send notes to the accessibility team. But if you do, be specific. 
> If you can't be specific, don't bother, because no one can fix bugs without 
> specific ways to reproduce them. 
> 
> -- 
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194 
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: bu...@brannan.name
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Pamela Francis  wrote:
>> 
>> In the answer to a couple of your questions, ask for a company making their 
>> products usable by the disabled, do you or do you not remember what sharp 
>> did for us with talking clocks and calculators?

Re: mail in 10.10

[Ray Foret Jr]

I for one, applaud what you and the others are doing with respect to your work 
on Mail and the other parts of Yosemite.  Just one thing bothers me.  I am 
informed that with this version of Mail, messages are indicated to be unread 
even if they have in fact been read.  Is this so?  In fact, it's the one small 
factor holding me back from doing the update.  I trust the signatures part 
crashing has also been fixed?


Sincerely,
the Constantly Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Mac and iphone user!
Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
built-in and fully protected by ClamXav Antivirus!

On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:21 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:

> Hello Pamela,  
> 
> You wrote:
> "Is it different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?"
> 
> It truly saddens me that you feel that the current build of Mail is junky.  
> 
> While I think I can understand your frustration, I want you to know that I
> and others worked very hard to make sure that the core functionality of the
> application was not lost in this, the first commercial release of the
> application.  
> 
> In the previous version of Mail, using the VoiceOver + arrow key combos made
> sense in terms of the order in which items were placed into focus.  Now, as
> you have no doubt discovered, navigating from the Mailboxes Table to the
> Messages table, for example, is no longer linear.  In fact, the order in
> which they appear makes no sense, at all, from a VoiceOver user's
> perspective, in my opinion of course.  
> 
> Please know that these kinds of things have been bugged and Apple is quite
> aware of them.  I do not know why they were not addressed in this release
> but rest assured that I and others will continue to press for improvements.
> 
> 
> I, personally, don't use the Classic view but, with just one or two little
> changes in keystroke combos, the Standard view works just as well as it did
> in Maverick.  
> 
> I do not write this because I am trying to save face for Apple, I am writing
> this because I believe in the power of this application.
> 
> I will be happy to help you get your Mail groove back, using Yosemite Mail
> by discussing the application in more detail, off-list, should you wish.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Francis
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:11 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: mail in 10.10
> 
> Hi guys,
> Through my involvement with this list, I have constantly heard people
> referred to classic view in mail. What is it, how do you get there? Is it
> different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?
> 
> Pam Francis
> 
> On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:27 AM, Nicholas Parsons
>  wrote:
> 
> Mail 8.0 is working well for me, though in Classic view all messages seem to
> be marked as conversations whether they are or not, and in standard view
> they are all marked as unread whether they are or not. However, I like the
> fact that the unread status is back to the beginning of the info announced
> in standard view. Apart from this, it seems snappier than ever, but
> responsiveness depends on many factors and your milage may vary.
> 
> -- 
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Re: spelling errors?

[BobH.]

Personally, I put all that off as it makes typing so disjointed, and so easy 
to lose your input position, and thus write nonsense.  I just prefer to 
spell correctly, or go back until I do. Most of the suggestions aren't what 
you're trying to say anyway.

Rh.
- Original Message - 
From: "Juan Hernandez" 
To: 
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 11:43 PM
Subject: spelling errors?


Hello all,

I can’t seem to get the trick of it.  how do I go through the spelling 
corrections when I’ve misspelled something?

Thanks.

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Re: VO and lag on Yosemite

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

The lag is definitely there, yes, even with 16 GB of RAM (I also have an iMac 
mid-2011).  It is much worse in Nuance voices than in Alex, which means staying 
with Alex is the quickest fix.  This hasn't bothered me, so I assume I've 
learned to tolerate it in Alex, but it's absurd with high-quality Nuance.

Anyone able to tell what upgrading Alex to enhanced quality actually does?  
It's a slight change, but I've not yet determined (or just can't remember) 
whether the impact was worth the download or the increased response time.

In general my feeling of Yosemite is: yeah, nothing extraordinary, really, just 
evolution.  Depending on your current circumstances you may in fact find it 
easier to stay put.  Mavericks was messed up, but it provided what I imagine 
most people noticed about the improved response time; I can live with Mountain 
Lion for now, and will move once Yosemite is closer to perfection.  Gone are 
the blind leaps of faith. :)

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Re: Preview on Yosemite | Unable to Read some PDFs

[Buddy Brannan]

I don't think file size is necessarily the problem if the problem is the same 
one I'm seeing. I've had a file open in one session and read perfectly, then in 
a different session have the file open and only say "PDF static text" and not 
read anything. I'm not sure how to replicate this, however. 

-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name



> On Oct 20, 2014, at 12:52 AM, Nicholas Parsons 
>  wrote:
> 
> After a little more playing, it seems this might have something to do with 
> the size of the file and the time it takes to load. One of those files I am 
> now able to read, so it might be that it just took a long time to load, which 
> would still be a shame as one of the best things about the Mac was the speedy 
> response to open PDFs, unlike on Windows.
> 
> I'm also now having problems using the VO-f command to search, though the 
> search feature from inside the Preview toolbar seems to work well. I've also 
> had some difficulties just now selecting text in Preview using the VO-return 
> method.
> 
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Re: osx 10.10

[Buddy Brannan]

I've had to sometimes use CMD+FN+F5 to get VO to come up, when the keyboard 
wasn't set for function keys to not control hardware functions. Well, it's 
something to try, anyway.

-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name



> On Oct 19, 2014, at 10:05 PM, Cheryl Homiak  wrote:
> 
> Okay, if recovery mode works I would think we can say your hard drive hasn't 
> gone dead because it would be a different partition on the same drive. Can I 
> assume you waited a good long time after putting in your password and 
> pressing enter? not trying to insult your intelligence; just trying to work 
> through the possibilities I know.
> 
> If I understand correctly, you do cmd-f5 and voiceover still doesn't come on. 
> Is your volume turned up? Remember by default increasing the volume does not 
> produce a sound effect. I know that even if this is the case it doesn't solve 
> the problem of nothing happening after you enter your password but I figure 
> if we crack one problem we may soon crack the other too. Did you also try 
> cmd-fn-5 to try to turn vo on instead of just cmd-f5? Probably Apple will 
> have a concrete idea of what is wrong to give you so if you want to ignore my 
> ideas until you've heard from them, that's okay. I don't have any special 
> knowledge or certification except my own experience with my machine and 
> others' computers, so all I know to do is plod through the questions that 
> come to mind.
> 
> -- 
> Cheryl
> 
> I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
> I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
> thrown in the trash!
> Then God gave me a new heart and life:
> His joy for my despairing tears!
> And now, every day:
> "This I call to mind,
> and therefore I have hope:
> The steadfast love of the Lord
> never ceases;
> his mercies never come to an end;
> they are new every morning;
> great is your faithfulness."
> (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:45 PM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> I've never enabled file vault. Also, I'm on a USb keyboard 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:42 PM, Cheryl Homiak  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Okay, let me ask you a couple more questions.
>>> 
>>> Did you enable file vault or is there any possibility of that?
>>> 
>>> What keyboard are you using? It might be that your keyboard and the Mac 
>>> aren't working together, especially if it's bluetooth. If you are using a 
>>> bluetooth keyboard, can you try a different brand one or better yet a usb 
>>> one?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Cheryl
>>> 
>>> I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
>>> I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
>>> thrown in the trash!
>>> Then God gave me a new heart and life:
>>> His joy for my despairing tears!
>>> And now, every day:
>>> "This I call to mind,
>>> and therefore I have hope:
>>> The steadfast love of the Lord
>>> never ceases;
>>> his mercies never come to an end;
>>> they are new every morning;
>>> great is your faithfulness."
>>> (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Devin Prater  wrote:
 
 Well, now my mac is unusable. I starteaed it up, and voiceover wasn't 
 speaking. I reinstalled osx and voiceover still isn't speaking. I enter my 
 password and nothing happens when I press enter. So good job Apple, I 
 can't use my mac in other than recovery mode. Thanks. Good going Apple. A 
 good way to show support to a loyal customer. 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
> On Oct 19, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Juan Hernandez  
> wrote:
> 
> Yosemite works great.  I love the arrow key nav in safari.
> 
> I don't see all of the lag that others see.  
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 9:26 AM, Pamela Francis  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Like an idiot, I did update. I have one word to say to you about 
>> updating. Don't, under any condition.
>> 
>> Pam Francis
>> 
>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 6:41 PM, The Believer  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> My philosophy is to wait. If you want to help with the bugs and all 
>> that, go for it. If your Mavericks experience is smooth and trouble 
>> free, I would wait until Yosemite matures a bit more. Some of the new 
>> features I am quite interested in but they are not life changing. Same 
>> goes for iOS 8.
>> 
>> From The Believer. . .
>> . . . what if it were true?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 10/18/2014 4:37 PM, jeffrey greene wrote:
>>> Hi, Well I've been reading about every bodies problems with OSX 10.10. 
>>> So,. do you think I should upgrade from mavericks? Or do you think it 
>>> would be better to wait for 10.10.1? I have a 2012 macbook pro with a 
>>> quad-core processor and quite a bit of memory. Any thoughts would be 
>>> appreciated!
>>> Jeff
>> 
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Re: osx 10.10

[Buddy Brannan]

And this just proves people will hear exactly what they want to hear. Nowhere 
did I say that we shouldn't ask for fixes, point out problelms that need fixed, 
or anything of the sort. Trust the system? Who ever said that? Not me. 

-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name



> On Oct 19, 2014, at 10:08 PM, Robin  wrote:
> 
> In my humble opinion, I don't agree with your assessment as it pertains to 
> mainstream accessibility (Out of the Box). If these mainstream products are 
> going to be incorporated into Public Education settings, and people with 
> disabilities are going to be mainstreamed, how can Apple products be 
> recommended if said population can't perform the same task as their Sighted 
> (Ol'Sighty) counterparts.
> 
> Apple products are currently incorporated in Special Education areas such as 
> AAC and VIto mention a few.
> 
> 
> If these products were exclusively and/or solely going to be used for 
> personal use, you might have a point, but that's not the case.
> 
> Have you ever heard the saying, "A closed mouth doesn't get fed" or how about 
> "Trust the system" or "Wait your Turn", I could go on and on
> (Has your Co-Host, Alena of TripleClickHome recommended any Apple products 
> for her VI Students? What about your friend, Allison of the 
> TechDoctorPodcast?)
> 
> At 04:33 PM 10/19/2014, you wrote:
>> See, here's the thing. We *are* being treated like everyone else. Now that 
>> we have mainstream access to mainstream products, that also means that our 
>> bugs get stuck in the queue with everyone else's bugs. They get prioritized 
>> along with everybody else's bugs. And they get fixed in the schedule with 
>> everybody else's bugs. The tradeoff we get for out of the box accessibility 
>> from a mainstream manufacturer is that we don't get special releases or 
>> fixes specific to our needs. We get them on the same schedule as everyone 
>> else's bugs. Sometimes we may not like the priority our requests get, but 
>> it's the price we pay for getting exactly what we've asked for for years.
>> 
>> Change is inevitable. iTunes has changed. I'm not a huge fan of the change 
>> either, but there it is, and I can still use it, even if I like it less. My 
>> like or dislike of it, however, doesn't have any bearing on whether or not 
>> it's accessible. Same with Yosemite in general; it's changed. I haven't 
>> really had any real problems with it, generally speaking. I mostly like the 
>> changes, apart of course for iTunes 12. But I'm definitely not seeing 
>> significant accessibility impacts on what I do with OS X from day to day.
>> 
>> Yep. Early betas were pretty awful. Early betas for iOS8 were also horribly 
>> broken. But that's why they're betas. I've told people who have asked me 
>> whether iOS8 is worth having, I've told them that I have a pretty skewed 
>> view on that, since by comparison to the early betas, it's really good, so I 
>> have no significant complaints. Well...I have to say, I've recently had 
>> occasion to look at iTunes Radio, and notice that it doesn't really read the 
>> way they're supposed to. I expect it will get fixed in due course, but, 
>> again, on Apple's schedule, along with everybody else's bugs, in the queue, 
>> in its order, in priority with everybody else's bugs. Because seriously, if 
>> you think that we're the only ones dealing with bugs, sometimes really 
>> inconvenient bugs, you're at best naive, at worst delusional.
>> 
>> Anyway, yes. We have gotten exactly what we've been asking for. That 
>> sometimes means unpleasant side effects. Myself, I'm happy to take the 
>> unpleasant side effects as a part of the whole package. Does this make me an 
>> Apple apologist? Does this mean that I'm willing to settle for the crumbs 
>> from the table, as it were, and am content with my lot as a second-class 
>> citizen? far from it. It means I recognize that my problems are a subset of 
>> all the problems that Apple is dealing with to make things work, sometimes 
>> in the face of pretty significant change.
>> 
>> Absolutely send notes to the accessibility team. But if you do, be specific. 
>> If you can't be specific, don't bother, because no one can fix bugs without 
>> specific ways to reproduce them.
>> 
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> Email: bu...@brannan.name
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > On Oct 19, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Pamela Francis  wrote:
>> >
>> > In the answer to a couple of your questions, ask for a company making 
>> > their products usable by the disabled, do you or do you not remember what 
>> > sharp did for us with talking clocks and calculators? Do you also know 
>> > that Panasonic makes  optional talking caller ID in its cordless phones? 
>> > For years swans foods offered all of their catalogs in braille along with 
>> > their cooking  directions as one could also read on their boxes. It is not 
>> > unreasonable or p

Re: mail in 10.10

[Brandt Steenkamp]

Hi Mark,

You got it in one. The only thing that I can see that has really changed, is 
the layout, and that should not impact the user all that much.

Warm regards,

Brandt Steenkamp

Sent from my macbook pro

Contact me:

Mobile/iMessage/WatsApp: +27605259181

Email: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com

My ring to Skype:
California, United States
  +(1)760-5140161  
Extension 512
Cape Town, South Africa
   +(27)213-002317  
Extension 161
Johannesburg, South Africa
+(27)105-002316
Extension 170

Skype: Brandt.steenkamp007

SIP: 5500...@spokn.com

Twitter: brandtsteenkamp

> On 20 Oct 2014, at 8:44 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Devin,
> 
> While there are some definite changes as to the nuances of Apple Mail, none 
> of it's functionality, as I perceive it, has been lost in Yosemite.  
> 
> Conversely, if you didn't like Mail in Maverick, then you probably won't like 
> it in Yosemite, either.
> 
> In my opinion, Mail is one of the most powerful applications in OS X and it 
> continues to be my preferred mail client.
> 
> Mark 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 6:53 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: mail in 10.10
> 
> Is mail any more usable in 10.10? Or will I have to keep using iOS and 
> thunderbird for that? 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 5:16 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I have a small lagg i think.
>> Its a bit slow yes.
>> Though the Yosemite update is not as disappointing as the ios 8 was.
>> Not yet.
>> /A
>>> 18 okt 2014 kl. 04:28 skrev Dionipher Herrera :
>>> 
>>> yes me too, and i hate it.
 On 18 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Faisal  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 so I took the plunge and installed Yosemite. I’m noticing a definite lag 
 with voice over. Is anyone else noticing this as well?
 I’m using Alex
 Thanks
 
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Re: osx 10.10

[Robin]

I'm sorry for your misinterpretation of what I said.
I never inferred and/or said that you didn't request "bug' and/or 
"flaw" fixes. I said you inferred that with mainstream access 
(accessibility), other issues take presidence over our issues, and I 
regretfully disagree since these MobileDevices are being incorporated 
into Public Education for both mainstream and/or specialty segments 
of the disabled population.
If we were only referring to personal use, you might have a"Leg" to 
"Stand" on, but I would also disagree with you there as well. I'm not 
going to "sit back" and "wait" for someone to give me what I want, 
I'm going to ask for it until I get it. Of course, there are 
instances whre this doesn't apply. Just saying.


At 05:03 AM 10/20/2014, you wrote:
And this just proves people will hear exactly what they want to 
hear. Nowhere did I say that we shouldn't ask for fixes, point out 
problelms that need fixed, or anything of the sort. Trust the 
system? Who ever said that? Not me.


--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name



> On Oct 19, 2014, at 10:08 PM, Robin  wrote:
>
> In my humble opinion, I don't agree with your assessment as it 
pertains to mainstream accessibility (Out of the Box). If these 
mainstream products are going to be incorporated into Public 
Education settings, and people with disabilities are going to be 
mainstreamed, how can Apple products be recommended if said 
population can't perform the same task as their Sighted (Ol'Sighty) 
counterparts.

>
> Apple products are currently incorporated in Special Education 
areas such as AAC and VIto mention a few.

>
>
> If these products were exclusively and/or solely going to be used 
for personal use, you might have a point, but that's not the case.

>
> Have you ever heard the saying, "A closed mouth doesn't get fed" 
or how about "Trust the system" or "Wait your Turn", I could go on and on
> (Has your Co-Host, Alena of TripleClickHome recommended any Apple 
products for her VI Students? What about your friend, Allison of 
the TechDoctorPodcast?)

>
> At 04:33 PM 10/19/2014, you wrote:
>> See, here's the thing. We *are* being treated like everyone 
else. Now that we have mainstream access to mainstream products, 
that also means that our bugs get stuck in the queue with everyone 
else's bugs. They get prioritized along with everybody else's bugs. 
And they get fixed in the schedule with everybody else's bugs. The 
tradeoff we get for out of the box accessibility from a mainstream 
manufacturer is that we don't get special releases or fixes 
specific to our needs. We get them on the same schedule as everyone 
else's bugs. Sometimes we may not like the priority our requests 
get, but it's the price we pay for getting exactly what we've asked 
for for years.

>>
>> Change is inevitable. iTunes has changed. I'm not a huge fan of 
the change either, but there it is, and I can still use it, even if 
I like it less. My like or dislike of it, however, doesn't have any 
bearing on whether or not it's accessible. Same with Yosemite in 
general; it's changed. I haven't really had any real problems with 
it, generally speaking. I mostly like the changes, apart of course 
for iTunes 12. But I'm definitely not seeing significant 
accessibility impacts on what I do with OS X from day to day.

>>
>> Yep. Early betas were pretty awful. Early betas for iOS8 were 
also horribly broken. But that's why they're betas. I've told 
people who have asked me whether iOS8 is worth having, I've told 
them that I have a pretty skewed view on that, since by comparison 
to the early betas, it's really good, so I have no significant 
complaints. Well...I have to say, I've recently had occasion to 
look at iTunes Radio, and notice that it doesn't really read the 
way they're supposed to. I expect it will get fixed in due course, 
but, again, on Apple's schedule, along with everybody else's bugs, 
in the queue, in its order, in priority with everybody else's bugs. 
Because seriously, if you think that we're the only ones dealing 
with bugs, sometimes really inconvenient bugs, you're at best 
naive, at worst delusional.

>>
>> Anyway, yes. We have gotten exactly what we've been asking for. 
That sometimes means unpleasant side effects. Myself, I'm happy to 
take the unpleasant side effects as a part of the whole package. 
Does this make me an Apple apologist? Does this mean that I'm 
willing to settle for the crumbs from the table, as it were, and am 
content with my lot as a second-class citizen? far from it. It 
means I recognize that my problems are a subset of all the problems 
that Apple is dealing with to make things work, sometimes in the 
face of pretty significant change.

>>
>> Absolutely send notes to the accessibility team. But if you do, 
be specific. If you can't be specific, don't bother, because no one 
can fix bugs without specific ways to reproduce them.

>>
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, K

Mac OSX & iOS & Mainstream Accessibility

[Robin]

That was My Last response as "this Thread" is going FAR Off topic
We'll have to "Agree TO Disagree" as it pertains to Mainstream Accessibility


At 05:03 AM 10/20/2014, you wrote:
And this just proves people will hear exactly what they want to 
hear. Nowhere did I say that we shouldn't ask for fixes, point out 
problelms that need fixed, or anything of the sort. Trust the 
system? Who ever said that? Not me.


--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name



> On Oct 19, 2014, at 10:08 PM, Robin  wrote:
>
> In my humble opinion, I don't agree with your assessment as it 
pertains to mainstream accessibility (Out of the Box). If these 
mainstream products are going to be incorporated into Public 
Education settings, and people with disabilities are going to be 
mainstreamed, how can Apple products be recommended if said 
population can't perform the same task as their Sighted (Ol'Sighty) 
counterparts.

>
> Apple products are currently incorporated in Special Education 
areas such as AAC and VIto mention a few.

>
>
> If these products were exclusively and/or solely going to be used 
for personal use, you might have a point, but that's not the case.

>
> Have you ever heard the saying, "A closed mouth doesn't get fed" 
or how about "Trust the system" or "Wait your Turn", I could go on and on
> (Has your Co-Host, Alena of TripleClickHome recommended any Apple 
products for her VI Students? What about your friend, Allison of 
the TechDoctorPodcast?)

>
> At 04:33 PM 10/19/2014, you wrote:
>> See, here's the thing. We *are* being treated like everyone 
else. Now that we have mainstream access to mainstream products, 
that also means that our bugs get stuck in the queue with everyone 
else's bugs. They get prioritized along with everybody else's bugs. 
And they get fixed in the schedule with everybody else's bugs. The 
tradeoff we get for out of the box accessibility from a mainstream 
manufacturer is that we don't get special releases or fixes 
specific to our needs. We get them on the same schedule as everyone 
else's bugs. Sometimes we may not like the priority our requests 
get, but it's the price we pay for getting exactly what we've asked 
for for years.

>>
>> Change is inevitable. iTunes has changed. I'm not a huge fan of 
the change either, but there it is, and I can still use it, even if 
I like it less. My like or dislike of it, however, doesn't have any 
bearing on whether or not it's accessible. Same with Yosemite in 
general; it's changed. I haven't really had any real problems with 
it, generally speaking. I mostly like the changes, apart of course 
for iTunes 12. But I'm definitely not seeing significant 
accessibility impacts on what I do with OS X from day to day.

>>
>> Yep. Early betas were pretty awful. Early betas for iOS8 were 
also horribly broken. But that's why they're betas. I've told 
people who have asked me whether iOS8 is worth having, I've told 
them that I have a pretty skewed view on that, since by comparison 
to the early betas, it's really good, so I have no significant 
complaints. Well...I have to say, I've recently had occasion to 
look at iTunes Radio, and notice that it doesn't really read the 
way they're supposed to. I expect it will get fixed in due course, 
but, again, on Apple's schedule, along with everybody else's bugs, 
in the queue, in its order, in priority with everybody else's bugs. 
Because seriously, if you think that we're the only ones dealing 
with bugs, sometimes really inconvenient bugs, you're at best 
naive, at worst delusional.

>>
>> Anyway, yes. We have gotten exactly what we've been asking for. 
That sometimes means unpleasant side effects. Myself, I'm happy to 
take the unpleasant side effects as a part of the whole package. 
Does this make me an Apple apologist? Does this mean that I'm 
willing to settle for the crumbs from the table, as it were, and am 
content with my lot as a second-class citizen? far from it. It 
means I recognize that my problems are a subset of all the problems 
that Apple is dealing with to make things work, sometimes in the 
face of pretty significant change.

>>
>> Absolutely send notes to the accessibility team. But if you do, 
be specific. If you can't be specific, don't bother, because no one 
can fix bugs without specific ways to reproduce them.

>>
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> Email: bu...@brannan.name
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Oct 19, 2014, at 7:09 PM, Pamela Francis 
 wrote:

>> >
>> > In the answer to a couple of your questions, ask for a company 
making their products usable by the disabled, do you or do you not 
remember what sharp did for us with talking clocks and calculators? 
Do you also know that Panasonic makes  optional talking caller ID 
in its cordless phones? For years swans foods offered all of their 
catalogs in braille along with their cooking  directions as one 
could also read on their

Re: spelling errors?

[Jamie Pauls]

When you come across a word that you have misspelled, press the down arrow key. 
You will hear your first suggestion. Use right and left arrow keys to review 
suggestions and press enter when you find the one you want. I use it all the 
time and like it a lot.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 5:09 AM, "BobH."  wrote:
> 
> Personally, I put all that off as it makes typing so disjointed, and so easy 
> to lose your input position, and thus write nonsense.  I just prefer to 
> spell correctly, or go back until I do. Most of the suggestions aren't what 
> you're trying to say anyway.
> 
> Rh.
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Juan Hernandez" 
> To: 
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 11:43 PM
> Subject: spelling errors?
> 
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I can’t seem to get the trick of it.  how do I go through the spelling 
> corrections when I’ve misspelled something?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
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Copying music etc from the latest iTunes to an iPad or iPhone under yosemeti

[Dean Adams]

Hi All,
I have struck a problem with the latest itunes when trying to copy 
music etc to my iphone , I used to go to the music library find the artist or 
song I wanted command c to copy the music then go to the sidebar and once in 
devices and my iphone paste the music etc with command v but now once I 
navigate to my Iphone I no longer can paste music  etc on to my device . If 
anyone has successfully been able to manually copy music etc accross to there 
device can they please give me the instructions on how to be able to oopy my 
chosen media to my device . Many thanks .

Regards Dean
Sent from Dean Adams Macbook Pro
breezepa...@gmail.com
Voip phone: +6124307 9248
landline Phone: +61243892195
Mobile: +61428133758
Skype and Twitter : deanadams9

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Re: mail in 10.10

[Alex Hall]

I've heard one report of the unread status being unreliable, but that's it. I 
don't have that problem, and I've not heard anyone else talk about it aside 
from that single report. Maybe you'll run into it, but for what it's worth, I 
haven't.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 5:11 AM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> I for one, applaud what you and the others are doing with respect to your 
> work on Mail and the other parts of Yosemite.  Just one thing bothers me.  I 
> am informed that with this version of Mail, messages are indicated to be 
> unread even if they have in fact been read.  Is this so?  In fact, it's the 
> one small factor holding me back from doing the update.  I trust the 
> signatures part crashing has also been fixed?
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> the Constantly Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Mac and iphone user!
> Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in and fully protected by ClamXav Antivirus!
> 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:21 AM, M. Taylor  > wrote:
> 
>> Hello Pamela,  
>> 
>> You wrote:
>> "Is it different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?"
>> 
>> It truly saddens me that you feel that the current build of Mail is junky.  
>> 
>> While I think I can understand your frustration, I want you to know that I
>> and others worked very hard to make sure that the core functionality of the
>> application was not lost in this, the first commercial release of the
>> application.  
>> 
>> In the previous version of Mail, using the VoiceOver + arrow key combos made
>> sense in terms of the order in which items were placed into focus.  Now, as
>> you have no doubt discovered, navigating from the Mailboxes Table to the
>> Messages table, for example, is no longer linear.  In fact, the order in
>> which they appear makes no sense, at all, from a VoiceOver user's
>> perspective, in my opinion of course.  
>> 
>> Please know that these kinds of things have been bugged and Apple is quite
>> aware of them.  I do not know why they were not addressed in this release
>> but rest assured that I and others will continue to press for improvements.
>> 
>> 
>> I, personally, don't use the Classic view but, with just one or two little
>> changes in keystroke combos, the Standard view works just as well as it did
>> in Maverick.  
>> 
>> I do not write this because I am trying to save face for Apple, I am writing
>> this because I believe in the power of this application.
>> 
>> I will be happy to help you get your Mail groove back, using Yosemite Mail
>> by discussing the application in more detail, off-list, should you wish.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Pamela Francis
>> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:11 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: mail in 10.10
>> 
>> Hi guys,
>> Through my involvement with this list, I have constantly heard people
>> referred to classic view in mail. What is it, how do you get there? Is it
>> different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?
>> 
>> Pam Francis
>> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:27 AM, Nicholas Parsons
>> mailto:mr.nicholas.pars...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Mail 8.0 is working well for me, though in Classic view all messages seem to
>> be marked as conversations whether they are or not, and in standard view
>> they are all marked as unread whether they are or not. However, I like the
>> fact that the unread status is back to the beginning of the info announced
>> in standard view. Apart from this, it seems snappier than ever, but
>> responsiveness depends on many factors and your milage may vary.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
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>> .
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>> .
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>> .
>> 
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>> 

Re: mail in 10.10

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Alex,

First of all, thanks for the excellent podcast you did on Apple this. I had a 
question about mail. I have not upgraded yet. I suspect they will do so soon. I 
am wondering since I use classic view to read mail in conversation threads, I 
use VO – J all the time. Will I be able to do that as I have been doing well I 
need to modify how I do this? Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> I've heard one report of the unread status being unreliable, but that's it. I 
> don't have that problem, and I've not heard anyone else talk about it aside 
> from that single report. Maybe you'll run into it, but for what it's worth, I 
> haven't.
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 5:11 AM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> I for one, applaud what you and the others are doing with respect to your 
>> work on Mail and the other parts of Yosemite.  Just one thing bothers me.  I 
>> am informed that with this version of Mail, messages are indicated to be 
>> unread even if they have in fact been read.  Is this so?  In fact, it's the 
>> one small factor holding me back from doing the update.  I trust the 
>> signatures part crashing has also been fixed?
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> the Constantly Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Mac and iphone user!
>> Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>> built-in and fully protected by ClamXav Antivirus!
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:21 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Pamela,  
>>> 
>>> You wrote:
>>> "Is it different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?"
>>> 
>>> It truly saddens me that you feel that the current build of Mail is junky.  
>>> 
>>> While I think I can understand your frustration, I want you to know that I
>>> and others worked very hard to make sure that the core functionality of the
>>> application was not lost in this, the first commercial release of the
>>> application.  
>>> 
>>> In the previous version of Mail, using the VoiceOver + arrow key combos made
>>> sense in terms of the order in which items were placed into focus.  Now, as
>>> you have no doubt discovered, navigating from the Mailboxes Table to the
>>> Messages table, for example, is no longer linear.  In fact, the order in
>>> which they appear makes no sense, at all, from a VoiceOver user's
>>> perspective, in my opinion of course.  
>>> 
>>> Please know that these kinds of things have been bugged and Apple is quite
>>> aware of them.  I do not know why they were not addressed in this release
>>> but rest assured that I and others will continue to press for improvements.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I, personally, don't use the Classic view but, with just one or two little
>>> changes in keystroke combos, the Standard view works just as well as it did
>>> in Maverick.  
>>> 
>>> I do not write this because I am trying to save face for Apple, I am writing
>>> this because I believe in the power of this application.
>>> 
>>> I will be happy to help you get your Mail groove back, using Yosemite Mail
>>> by discussing the application in more detail, off-list, should you wish.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Francis
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:11 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: mail in 10.10
>>> 
>>> Hi guys,
>>> Through my involvement with this list, I have constantly heard people
>>> referred to classic view in mail. What is it, how do you get there? Is it
>>> different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?
>>> 
>>> Pam Francis
>>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:27 AM, Nicholas Parsons
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Mail 8.0 is working well for me, though in Classic view all messages seem to
>>> be marked as conversations whether they are or not, and in standard view
>>> they are all marked as unread whether they are or not. However, I like the
>>> fact that the unread status is back to the beginning of the info announced
>>> in standard view. Apart from this, it seems snappier than ever, but
>>> responsiveness depends on many factors and your milage may vary.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://

Re: osx 10.10

[Jamie Pauls]

I also have the same clock with the missing battery cover. LOL I have a cat to 
thank for that.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2014, at 11:56 PM, Cheryl Homiak  wrote:
> 
> 
> I had all of those you mention specifically - lol! Still have the talking 
> clock, a bit dented from being dropped and I lost the cover to the battery 
> compartment but still works! Isn't that just hysterically funny? Not the 
> point I know but it gives me a great laugh!
> 
> -- 
> Cheryl
> 
> I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
> I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
> thrown in the trash!
> Then God gave me a new heart and life:
> His joy for my despairing tears!
> And now, every day:
> "This I call to mind,
> and therefore I have hope:
> The steadfast love of the Lord
> never ceases;
> his mercies never come to an end;
> they are new every morning;
> great is your faithfulness."
> (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 10:53 PM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Ah yes, I definitely remember what Sharp did.
>> 
>> The Talking Time was the first Sharp talking clock. It was a marvel of 
>> accessibility for one of the first talking clocks. Within a few years, a 
>> very large number of blind people wanted them. By that time, Sharp was no 
>> longer selling them. In fact, the NFB convinced Sharp to do one more 
>> manufacturing run which the NFB then sold for the next couple years.
>> 
>> When sharp was asked why they would discontinue such a popular clock, the 
>> answer was, the clock was Sharp's least popular device. It only sold a few 
>> hundred thousand when it was supposed to sell a few million. The same was 
>> true for the excellent Sharp EL640 talking calculator.
>> 
>> Panasonic created a wonderful talking clock radio shortly after the 
>> excellent Sharp products. Again, Panasonic did not receive the general 
>> market sales they predicted for the product, so they discontinued it. It was 
>> mainly only blind people who were purchasing it.
>> 
>> A similar thing happened in the mid 90's with Zenith and a talking 
>> programmable VCR.
>> 
>> I do have many more examples, including talking pagers, talking juicers, a 
>> general market talking microwave, a couple general market talking digital 
>> radios, and so forth. In all cases, when only blind people purchase the 
>> products, and the products are priced for general market, companies lose 
>> lots of money and pull the devices.
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 12:09, Pamela Francis  wrote:
>>> 
>>> In the answer to a couple of your questions, ask for a company making their 
>>> products usable by the disabled, do you or do you not remember what sharp 
>>> did for us with talking clocks and calculators? Do you also know that 
>>> Panasonic makes  optional talking caller ID in its cordless phones? For 
>>> years swans foods offered all of their catalogs in braille along with their 
>>> cooking  directions as one could also read on their boxes. It is not 
>>> unreasonable or pompous to expect to be treated the same as anyone else in 
>>> the same store paying the same money for the same product. If you consider 
>>> that pompous, you must be living with your parents who do everything for 
>>> you. I do not. I've lived away from my family since 1974, then married, 
>>> raise two children and have four grandchildren. I've been through the times 
>>> where we didn't as much as have digital readings on elevators or braille on 
>>> hotel room doors. I travel anywhere I want to go, do anything I want to do. 
>>> I do not expect special treatment. I ask for what I need.
>>> 
>>> Pam Francis
>>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 5:10 PM, The Believer  wrote:
>>> 
>>> That is a first. The general public now dictates what the disabled public 
>>> gets? Apple develops products for the mainstream market...and they also 
>>> have enabled these same products to be usable by the disabled. Can amy 
>>> other comppany claim that?
>>> 
>>> We all can walk into any Apple store along with the sighted general public 
>>> and buy the same products they do and use the same products alongside them.
>>> 
>>> And if we have an issue with our product, we can walk into any Apple store 
>>> or cal their toll free number and get the same assistance.
>>> 
>>> Why should we expect any different treatment? Because we are blind? That, 
>>> IMO, is shortsightedness and perhaps even pompous. It certainly will not 
>>> get one very far.
>>> 
>>> No one is glossing over anything. On the other hand, some are over the top 
>>> downright unreasonable.
>>> 
>>> From The Believer. . .
>>> . . . what if it were true?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>>> 
 On 10/19/2014 2:02 PM, Pamela Francis wrote:
 Hi,
 I'm normally not one to complain for the sake of complaining. I am a 
 realist. I know that we as a market are a minority within Apple's customer 
 base. I w

Re: mail in 10.10

[Cheryl Homiak]

Thanks for the confirmation that the order has changed. I noticed that but yes, 
it still works just as well for me as it did in Mavericks. And it did work for 
me in Mavericks :-) I use this app constantly throughout my day as I am sure 
many of you do.


-- 
Cheryl

I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
thrown in the trash!
Then God gave me a new heart and life:
His joy for my despairing tears!
And now, every day:
"This I call to mind,
and therefore I have hope:
The steadfast love of the Lord
never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
they are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness."
(Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)




> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:21 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Pamela,  
> 
> You wrote:
> "Is it different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?"
> 
> It truly saddens me that you feel that the current build of Mail is junky.  
> 
> While I think I can understand your frustration, I want you to know that I
> and others worked very hard to make sure that the core functionality of the
> application was not lost in this, the first commercial release of the
> application.  
> 
> In the previous version of Mail, using the VoiceOver + arrow key combos made
> sense in terms of the order in which items were placed into focus.  Now, as
> you have no doubt discovered, navigating from the Mailboxes Table to the
> Messages table, for example, is no longer linear.  In fact, the order in
> which they appear makes no sense, at all, from a VoiceOver user's
> perspective, in my opinion of course.  
> 
> Please know that these kinds of things have been bugged and Apple is quite
> aware of them.  I do not know why they were not addressed in this release
> but rest assured that I and others will continue to press for improvements.
> 
> 
> I, personally, don't use the Classic view but, with just one or two little
> changes in keystroke combos, the Standard view works just as well as it did
> in Maverick.  
> 
> I do not write this because I am trying to save face for Apple, I am writing
> this because I believe in the power of this application.
> 
> I will be happy to help you get your Mail groove back, using Yosemite Mail
> by discussing the application in more detail, off-list, should you wish.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Francis
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:11 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: mail in 10.10
> 
> Hi guys,
> Through my involvement with this list, I have constantly heard people
> referred to classic view in mail. What is it, how do you get there? Is it
> different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?
> 
> Pam Francis
> 
> On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:27 AM, Nicholas Parsons
>  wrote:
> 
> Mail 8.0 is working well for me, though in Classic view all messages seem to
> be marked as conversations whether they are or not, and in standard view
> they are all marked as unread whether they are or not. However, I like the
> fact that the unread status is back to the beginning of the info announced
> in standard view. Apart from this, it seems snappier than ever, but
> responsiveness depends on many factors and your milage may vary.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: osx 10.10

[Cheryl Homiak]

You know, I was thinking about that and realized that, in the interests of not 
berating a sighted world for this, another corollary should be added. While 
most of us can't see or have some limits on our vision, it is indeed an 
extremely visual world and universe. Not that it isn't a world and universe 
filled with all the other delightful senses: it surely is that too! But from 
conversations I have had with sighted people and from observing how they do 
things, I catch glimpses of the realization that the visual realm is absolutely 
central for them, not because they are choosing it over their other senses but 
just because that is the way it is. We can't blame sighted people for being 
altogether involved with improving and enhancing everything they create with 
visual information, beauty and even "eye candy". I have never seen and so I 
must often remind myself not to take lightly or belittle or become impatient 
with an emphasis that is simply a major characteristic in the brains of people 
who can see.

-- 
Cheryl

I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
thrown in the trash!
Then God gave me a new heart and life:
His joy for my despairing tears!
And now, every day:
"This I call to mind,
and therefore I have hope:
The steadfast love of the Lord
never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
they are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness."
(Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)




> On Oct 20, 2014, at 3:47 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> In the ideal world there would be no priorities as to what bugs or issues 
> would be fixed or not, but this ain't the ideal world and will never be. 
> Graphics and snazzy visual things will *always* have a higher priority 
> because like it or not, we're a very, very small minority. So small in fact 
> that with very few exceptions, voiceover isn't even mentioned on the big 
> keynotes, nobody sighted cares but that doesn't mean our bugs won't get 
> fixed, they will, only not this very instant. It's like languages. Some 
> languages get lots of love, others don't. For years now i've ranted and 
> complained about Siri not being available in the scandinavian languages and 
> to this day, only dictation is  and this also may be true with quick type and 
> the like. Some things have priority that's higher than others, that's the way 
> of the world. Is it ok? No, but that's the way it is.
> /Krister
> 
>> 20 okt 2014 kl. 02:23 skrev Pamela Francis :
>> 
>> Hi Buddy,
>> I can't disagree with your post, however my question to you is this why when 
>> there are visually impaired beta testers under NDA specifically to report 
>> issues that deal with accessibility does Apple not pay attention to what is 
>> being reported to them? If it was something to do with graphics for the way 
>> another file was managed that handled iMessage as an example that was broken 
>> having nothing to do with us   it will get fixed. However if the same issue 
>> happened to us because of our accessibility needs, we would be further down 
>> the queue. That's the issue I have. Is not about special treatment. Our 
>> accessibility to their equipment, is as important as any other function of 
>> the unit.
>> Pam Francis
>> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 6:33 PM, Buddy Brannan  wrote:
>> 
>> See, here's the thing. We *are* being treated like everyone else. Now that 
>> we have mainstream access to mainstream products, that also means that our 
>> bugs get stuck in the queue with everyone else's bugs. They get prioritized 
>> along with everybody else's bugs. And they get fixed in the schedule with 
>> everybody else's bugs. The tradeoff we get for out of the box accessibility 
>> from a mainstream manufacturer is that we don't get special releases or 
>> fixes specific to our needs. We get them on the same schedule as everyone 
>> else's bugs. Sometimes we may not like the priority our requests get, but 
>> it's the price we pay for getting exactly what we've asked for for years. 
>> 
>> Change is inevitable. iTunes has changed. I'm not a huge fan of the change 
>> either, but there it is, and I can still use it, even if I like it less. My 
>> like or dislike of it, however, doesn't have any bearing on whether or not 
>> it's accessible. Same with Yosemite in general; it's changed. I haven't 
>> really had any real problems with it, generally speaking. I mostly like the 
>> changes, apart of course for iTunes 12. But I'm definitely not seeing 
>> significant accessibility impacts on what I do with OS X from day to day. 
>> 
>> Yep. Early betas were pretty awful. Early betas for iOS8 were also horribly 
>> broken. But that's why they're betas. I've told people who have asked me 
>> whether iOS8 is worth having, I've told them that I have a pretty skewed 
>> view on that, since by comparison to the early betas, it's really good, so I 
>> have no significant complaints. Well...I have to say, I've recently had 
>> occasion to look at iTunes Radio, and notic

Re: osx 10.10

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Whatever the reasons, we're caught in the crossfire.  I'm personally convinced, 
having reported bugs to Apple, that some get fixed, and others do not.  It may 
be a purely clerical issue which do and which don't, and this is part of the 
reason I implore people to get brave and test and report on experimental 
software, in a constructive manner, wherever possible.  Regardless, I don't 
believe the religious fervour in support of or against Apple is warranted.  To 
take a recent example, iBooks was and is broken all the way through Mavericks, 
and if you believe that equality is a manifest right of all human beings, I 
don't see how you can fail to advocate for a better show than that.  Apple is a 
business, but equality does not ebb and flow with their business interests and 
priorities, whatever the reason; the fact that Apple has invoked godlike powers 
to get us the access we now have is completely, totally, utterly irrelevant.  
On the other hand, we are equal to all other consumers, which means that we 
don't enjoy any more privileges than other consumers; in particular, we can 
expect to be frustrated by bugs and poor quality control, to have our wishes go 
unanswered for extended periods of time, to have our personal grievances go 
unfixed, to find upgrades lacking according to our own priorities, and to have 
no more access than is essential to achieve equal opportunities to our sighted 
peers.  To judge from the timbre of the comments on the list, including mine, 
and of whatever merit and in whichever direction they are aimed, it is up in 
the air whether or not Apple is meeting its basic obligations to us as a 
consumer group.  If you asked me, I'd speculate that Apple is struggling for 
survival, and we as a group are simply in a much better position to appreciate 
the effects, rather than because of any particular neglect of accessibility.  I 
hope I'm not wrong about that, but I could well be.

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Re: mail in 10.10

[Alex Hall]

I don't use the preview pane, which is how vo-j lets you read a message, 
because doing so will mark a message ad "read" once I arrow past it, even if I 
don't read it. What I can say is that I'm back in standard view for now, 
because there's a bug in classic view where VoiceOver says that every message 
is a conversation. This gets very verbose, and it wasn't worth dealing with. 
Standard view works just fine, though.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:02 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
> 
> Hi Alex,
> 
> First of all, thanks for the excellent podcast you did on Apple this. I had a 
> question about mail. I have not upgraded yet. I suspect they will do so soon. 
> I am wondering since I use classic view to read mail in conversation threads, 
> I use VO – J all the time. Will I be able to do that as I have been doing 
> well I need to modify how I do this? Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Alex Hall  > wrote:
> 
>> I've heard one report of the unread status being unreliable, but that's it. 
>> I don't have that problem, and I've not heard anyone else talk about it 
>> aside from that single report. Maybe you'll run into it, but for what it's 
>> worth, I haven't.
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 5:11 AM, Ray Foret Jr >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I for one, applaud what you and the others are doing with respect to your 
>>> work on Mail and the other parts of Yosemite.  Just one thing bothers me.  
>>> I am informed that with this version of Mail, messages are indicated to be 
>>> unread even if they have in fact been read.  Is this so?  In fact, it's the 
>>> one small factor holding me back from doing the update.  I trust the 
>>> signatures part crashing has also been fixed?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> the Constantly Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Mac and iphone user!
>>> Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
>>> built-in and fully protected by ClamXav Antivirus!
>>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:21 AM, M. Taylor >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Hello Pamela,  
 
 You wrote:
 "Is it different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?"
 
 It truly saddens me that you feel that the current build of Mail is junky. 
  
 
 While I think I can understand your frustration, I want you to know that I
 and others worked very hard to make sure that the core functionality of the
 application was not lost in this, the first commercial release of the
 application.  
 
 In the previous version of Mail, using the VoiceOver + arrow key combos 
 made
 sense in terms of the order in which items were placed into focus.  Now, as
 you have no doubt discovered, navigating from the Mailboxes Table to the
 Messages table, for example, is no longer linear.  In fact, the order in
 which they appear makes no sense, at all, from a VoiceOver user's
 perspective, in my opinion of course.  
 
 Please know that these kinds of things have been bugged and Apple is quite
 aware of them.  I do not know why they were not addressed in this release
 but rest assured that I and others will continue to press for improvements.
 
 
 I, personally, don't use the Classic view but, with just one or two little
 changes in keystroke combos, the Standard view works just as well as it did
 in Maverick.  
 
 I do not write this because I am trying to save face for Apple, I am 
 writing
 this because I believe in the power of this application.
 
 I will be happy to help you get your Mail groove back, using Yosemite Mail
 by discussing the application in more detail, off-list, should you wish.
 
 Mark
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 ] On Behalf Of Pamela Francis
 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:11 AM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 
 Subject: Re: mail in 10.10
 
 Hi guys,
 Through my involvement with this list, I have constantly heard people
 referred to classic view in mail. What is it, how do you get there? Is it
 different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?
 
 Pam Francis
 
 On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:27 AM, Nicholas Parsons
 mailto:mr.nicholas.pars...@gmail.com>> 
 wrote:
 
 Mail 8.0 is working well for me, though in Classic view all messages seem 
 to
 be marked as conversations whether they are or not, and in standard view
 they are all marked as unread whether they are or not. However, I like the
 fact that the unread status is back to the beginning of the info announced
 in standard view. Apart from this, it seems snappier than ever, but
 responsivene

Re: mail in 10.10

[Devin Prater]

So, how did you turn off the preview pane? 

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:32 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> I don't use the preview pane, which is how vo-j lets you read a message, 
> because doing so will mark a message ad "read" once I arrow past it, even if 
> I don't read it. What I can say is that I'm back in standard view for now, 
> because there's a bug in classic view where VoiceOver says that every message 
> is a conversation. This gets very verbose, and it wasn't worth dealing with. 
> Standard view works just fine, though.
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:02 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Alex,
>> 
>> First of all, thanks for the excellent podcast you did on Apple this. I had 
>> a question about mail. I have not upgraded yet. I suspect they will do so 
>> soon. I am wondering since I use classic view to read mail in conversation 
>> threads, I use VO – J all the time. Will I be able to do that as I have been 
>> doing well I need to modify how I do this? Thanks.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I've heard one report of the unread status being unreliable, but that's it. 
>>> I don't have that problem, and I've not heard anyone else talk about it 
>>> aside from that single report. Maybe you'll run into it, but for what it's 
>>> worth, I haven't.
 On Oct 20, 2014, at 5:11 AM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
 
 I for one, applaud what you and the others are doing with respect to your 
 work on Mail and the other parts of Yosemite.  Just one thing bothers me.  
 I am informed that with this version of Mail, messages are indicated to be 
 unread even if they have in fact been read.  Is this so?  In fact, it's 
 the one small factor holding me back from doing the update.  I trust the 
 signatures part crashing has also been fixed?
 
 
 Sincerely,
 the Constantly Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Mac and iphone user!
 Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
 built-in and fully protected by ClamXav Antivirus!
 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:21 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Pamela,  
> 
> You wrote:
> "Is it different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?"
> 
> It truly saddens me that you feel that the current build of Mail is 
> junky.  
> 
> While I think I can understand your frustration, I want you to know that I
> and others worked very hard to make sure that the core functionality of 
> the
> application was not lost in this, the first commercial release of the
> application.  
> 
> In the previous version of Mail, using the VoiceOver + arrow key combos 
> made
> sense in terms of the order in which items were placed into focus.  Now, 
> as
> you have no doubt discovered, navigating from the Mailboxes Table to the
> Messages table, for example, is no longer linear.  In fact, the order in
> which they appear makes no sense, at all, from a VoiceOver user's
> perspective, in my opinion of course.  
> 
> Please know that these kinds of things have been bugged and Apple is quite
> aware of them.  I do not know why they were not addressed in this release
> but rest assured that I and others will continue to press for 
> improvements.
> 
> 
> I, personally, don't use the Classic view but, with just one or two little
> changes in keystroke combos, the Standard view works just as well as it 
> did
> in Maverick.  
> 
> I do not write this because I am trying to save face for Apple, I am 
> writing
> this because I believe in the power of this application.
> 
> I will be happy to help you get your Mail groove back, using Yosemite Mail
> by discussing the application in more detail, off-list, should you wish.
> 
> Mark
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Francis
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:11 AM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: mail in 10.10
> 
> Hi guys,
> Through my involvement with this list, I have constantly heard people
> referred to classic view in mail. What is it, how do you get there? Is it
> different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?
> 
> Pam Francis
> 
> On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:27 AM, Nicholas Parsons
>  wrote:
> 
> Mail 8.0 is working well for me, though in Classic view all messages seem 
> to
> be marked as conversations whether they are or not, and in standard view
> they are all marked as unread whether they are or not. However, I like the
> fact that the unread status is back to the beginning of the info announced
> in standard view. Apart from this, it seems snappier than ever, but
> responsiveness depends on many

Re: mail in 10.10

[Alex Hall]

There's a splitter just before it. Route your mouse to that, then hold the 
mouse button down while dragging straight down on the mouse. If you do it 
right, which might take a few tries, the pane will go away.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:36 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> So, how did you turn off the preview pane? 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:32 AM, Alex Hall  > wrote:
> 
>> I don't use the preview pane, which is how vo-j lets you read a message, 
>> because doing so will mark a message ad "read" once I arrow past it, even if 
>> I don't read it. What I can say is that I'm back in standard view for now, 
>> because there's a bug in classic view where VoiceOver says that every 
>> message is a conversation. This gets very verbose, and it wasn't worth 
>> dealing with. Standard view works just fine, though.
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:02 AM, Les Kriegler >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Alex,
>>> 
>>> First of all, thanks for the excellent podcast you did on Apple this. I had 
>>> a question about mail. I have not upgraded yet. I suspect they will do so 
>>> soon. I am wondering since I use classic view to read mail in conversation 
>>> threads, I use VO – J all the time. Will I be able to do that as I have 
>>> been doing well I need to modify how I do this? Thanks.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Alex Hall >> > wrote:
>>> 
 I've heard one report of the unread status being unreliable, but that's 
 it. I don't have that problem, and I've not heard anyone else talk about 
 it aside from that single report. Maybe you'll run into it, but for what 
 it's worth, I haven't.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 5:11 AM, Ray Foret Jr  > wrote:
> 
> I for one, applaud what you and the others are doing with respect to your 
> work on Mail and the other parts of Yosemite.  Just one thing bothers me. 
>  I am informed that with this version of Mail, messages are indicated to 
> be unread even if they have in fact been read.  Is this so?  In fact, 
> it's the one small factor holding me back from doing the update.  I trust 
> the signatures part crashing has also been fixed?
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> the Constantly Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Mac and iphone user!
> Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the blind 
> built-in and fully protected by ClamXav Antivirus!
> 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:21 AM, M. Taylor  > wrote:
> 
>> Hello Pamela,  
>> 
>> You wrote:
>> "Is it different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?"
>> 
>> It truly saddens me that you feel that the current build of Mail is 
>> junky.  
>> 
>> While I think I can understand your frustration, I want you to know that 
>> I
>> and others worked very hard to make sure that the core functionality of 
>> the
>> application was not lost in this, the first commercial release of the
>> application.  
>> 
>> In the previous version of Mail, using the VoiceOver + arrow key combos 
>> made
>> sense in terms of the order in which items were placed into focus.  Now, 
>> as
>> you have no doubt discovered, navigating from the Mailboxes Table to the
>> Messages table, for example, is no longer linear.  In fact, the order in
>> which they appear makes no sense, at all, from a VoiceOver user's
>> perspective, in my opinion of course.  
>> 
>> Please know that these kinds of things have been bugged and Apple is 
>> quite
>> aware of them.  I do not know why they were not addressed in this release
>> but rest assured that I and others will continue to press for 
>> improvements.
>> 
>> 
>> I, personally, don't use the Classic view but, with just one or two 
>> little
>> changes in keystroke combos, the Standard view works just as well as it 
>> did
>> in Maverick.  
>> 
>> I do not write this because I am trying to save face for Apple, I am 
>> writing
>> this because I believe in the power of this application.
>> 
>> I will be happy to help you get your Mail groove back, using Yosemite 
>> Mail
>> by discussing the application in more detail, off-list, should you wish.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Pamela Francis
>> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:11 AM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> 
>> Subject: Re: mail in 10.10
>> 
>> Hi guys,
>> Through my involvement with this list, I have constantly heard pe

Re: osx 10.10

[Buddy Brannan]

I didn't say that either. What I said was that all bugs get prioritized. That 
means that necessarily some of our bugs will be lower down the list than some 
other bugs. Similarly, some other bugs will be lower down on the list than some 
of ours. We can't always get top billing, and it's unrealistic for us to expect 
that.

-- 
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194 
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: bu...@brannan.name



> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:34 AM, Robin  wrote:
> 
> I'm sorry for your misinterpretation of what I said.
> I never inferred and/or said that you didn't request "bug' and/or "flaw" 
> fixes. I said you inferred that with mainstream access (accessibility), other 
> issues take presidence over our issues, and I regretfully disagree since 
> these MobileDevices are being incorporated into Public Education for both 
> mainstream and/or specialty segments of the disabled population.
> If we were only referring to personal use, you might have a"Leg" to "Stand" 
> on, but I would also disagree with you there as well. I'm not going to "sit 
> back" and "wait" for someone to give me what I want, I'm going to ask for it 
> until I get it. Of course, there are instances whre this doesn't apply. Just 
> saying.
> 
> At 05:03 AM 10/20/2014, you wrote:
>> And this just proves people will hear exactly what they want to hear. 
>> Nowhere did I say that we shouldn't ask for fixes, point out problelms that 
>> need fixed, or anything of the sort. Trust the system? Who ever said that? 
>> Not me.
>> 
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: 814-860-3194
>> Mobile: 814-431-0962
>> Email: bu...@brannan.name
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> > On Oct 19, 2014, at 10:08 PM, Robin  wrote:
>> >
>> > In my humble opinion, I don't agree with your assessment as it pertains to 
>> > mainstream accessibility (Out of the Box). If these mainstream products 
>> > are going to be incorporated into Public Education settings, and people 
>> > with disabilities are going to be mainstreamed, how can Apple products be 
>> > recommended if said population can't perform the same task as their 
>> > Sighted (Ol'Sighty) counterparts.
>> >
>> > Apple products are currently incorporated in Special Education areas such 
>> > as AAC and VIto mention a few.
>> >
>> >
>> > If these products were exclusively and/or solely going to be used for 
>> > personal use, you might have a point, but that's not the case.
>> >
>> > Have you ever heard the saying, "A closed mouth doesn't get fed" or how 
>> > about "Trust the system" or "Wait your Turn", I could go on and on
>> > (Has your Co-Host, Alena of TripleClickHome recommended any Apple products 
>> > for her VI Students? What about your friend, Allison of the 
>> > TechDoctorPodcast?)
>> >
>> > At 04:33 PM 10/19/2014, you wrote:
>> >> See, here's the thing. We *are* being treated like everyone else. Now 
>> >> that we have mainstream access to mainstream products, that also means 
>> >> that our bugs get stuck in the queue with everyone else's bugs. They get 
>> >> prioritized along with everybody else's bugs. And they get fixed in the 
>> >> schedule with everybody else's bugs. The tradeoff we get for out of the 
>> >> box accessibility from a mainstream manufacturer is that we don't get 
>> >> special releases or fixes specific to our needs. We get them on the same 
>> >> schedule as everyone else's bugs. Sometimes we may not like the priority 
>> >> our requests get, but it's the price we pay for getting exactly what 
>> >> we've asked for for years.
>> >>
>> >> Change is inevitable. iTunes has changed. I'm not a huge fan of the 
>> >> change either, but there it is, and I can still use it, even if I like it 
>> >> less. My like or dislike of it, however, doesn't have any bearing on 
>> >> whether or not it's accessible. Same with Yosemite in general; it's 
>> >> changed. I haven't really had any real problems with it, generally 
>> >> speaking. I mostly like the changes, apart of course for iTunes 12. But 
>> >> I'm definitely not seeing significant accessibility impacts on what I do 
>> >> with OS X from day to day.
>> >>
>> >> Yep. Early betas were pretty awful. Early betas for iOS8 were also 
>> >> horribly broken. But that's why they're betas. I've told people who have 
>> >> asked me whether iOS8 is worth having, I've told them that I have a 
>> >> pretty skewed view on that, since by comparison to the early betas, it's 
>> >> really good, so I have no significant complaints. Well...I have to say, 
>> >> I've recently had occasion to look at iTunes Radio, and notice that it 
>> >> doesn't really read the way they're supposed to. I expect it will get 
>> >> fixed in due course, but, again, on Apple's schedule, along with 
>> >> everybody else's bugs, in the queue, in its order, in priority with 
>> >> everybody else's bugs. Because seriously, if you think that we're the 
>> >> only ones dealing with bugs, sometimes really inconvenient bugs, you're 
>> >> at best naive, at worst delusio

Re: mail in 10.10

[Devin Prater]

Um, what if I don't have  mouse? 

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> There's a splitter just before it. Route your mouse to that, then hold the 
> mouse button down while dragging straight down on the mouse. If you do it 
> right, which might take a few tries, the pane will go away.
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:36 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> So, how did you turn off the preview pane? 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:32 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I don't use the preview pane, which is how vo-j lets you read a message, 
>>> because doing so will mark a message ad "read" once I arrow past it, even 
>>> if I don't read it. What I can say is that I'm back in standard view for 
>>> now, because there's a bug in classic view where VoiceOver says that every 
>>> message is a conversation. This gets very verbose, and it wasn't worth 
>>> dealing with. Standard view works just fine, though.
 On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:02 AM, Les Kriegler  wrote:
 
 Hi Alex,
 
 First of all, thanks for the excellent podcast you did on Apple this. I 
 had a question about mail. I have not upgraded yet. I suspect they will do 
 so soon. I am wondering since I use classic view to read mail in 
 conversation threads, I use VO – J all the time. Will I be able to do that 
 as I have been doing well I need to modify how I do this? Thanks.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> I've heard one report of the unread status being unreliable, but that's 
> it. I don't have that problem, and I've not heard anyone else talk about 
> it aside from that single report. Maybe you'll run into it, but for what 
> it's worth, I haven't.
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 5:11 AM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
>> 
>> I for one, applaud what you and the others are doing with respect to 
>> your work on Mail and the other parts of Yosemite.  Just one thing 
>> bothers me.  I am informed that with this version of Mail, messages are 
>> indicated to be unread even if they have in fact been read.  Is this so? 
>>  In fact, it's the one small factor holding me back from doing the 
>> update.  I trust the signatures part crashing has also been fixed?
>> 
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> the Constantly Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Mac and iphone user!
>> Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the 
>> blind built-in and fully protected by ClamXav Antivirus!
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:21 AM, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Pamela,  
>>> 
>>> You wrote:
>>> "Is it different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?"
>>> 
>>> It truly saddens me that you feel that the current build of Mail is 
>>> junky.  
>>> 
>>> While I think I can understand your frustration, I want you to know 
>>> that I
>>> and others worked very hard to make sure that the core functionality of 
>>> the
>>> application was not lost in this, the first commercial release of the
>>> application.  
>>> 
>>> In the previous version of Mail, using the VoiceOver + arrow key combos 
>>> made
>>> sense in terms of the order in which items were placed into focus.  
>>> Now, as
>>> you have no doubt discovered, navigating from the Mailboxes Table to the
>>> Messages table, for example, is no longer linear.  In fact, the order in
>>> which they appear makes no sense, at all, from a VoiceOver user's
>>> perspective, in my opinion of course.  
>>> 
>>> Please know that these kinds of things have been bugged and Apple is 
>>> quite
>>> aware of them.  I do not know why they were not addressed in this 
>>> release
>>> but rest assured that I and others will continue to press for 
>>> improvements.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I, personally, don't use the Classic view but, with just one or two 
>>> little
>>> changes in keystroke combos, the Standard view works just as well as it 
>>> did
>>> in Maverick.  
>>> 
>>> I do not write this because I am trying to save face for Apple, I am 
>>> writing
>>> this because I believe in the power of this application.
>>> 
>>> I will be happy to help you get your Mail groove back, using Yosemite 
>>> Mail
>>> by discussing the application in more detail, off-list, should you wish.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Pamela Francis
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 12:11 AM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: mail in 10.10
>>> 
>>> Hi guys,
>>> Through my involvement with this list, I have constantly heard people
>>> referred to classic view in mail. What is it, how do you get 

Re: mail in 10.10

[Alex Hall]

You can borrow one for a one-time use, or enable mouse keys. This lets your 
right keys (u i o, j k l, m common period) act as movement keys for the mouse. 
This is in System Preferences > Accessibility, I believe.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:54 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Um, what if I don't have  mouse? 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:42 AM, Alex Hall  > wrote:
> 
>> There's a splitter just before it. Route your mouse to that, then hold the 
>> mouse button down while dragging straight down on the mouse. If you do it 
>> right, which might take a few tries, the pane will go away.
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:36 AM, Devin Prater >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> So, how did you turn off the preview pane? 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:32 AM, Alex Hall >> > wrote:
>>> 
 I don't use the preview pane, which is how vo-j lets you read a message, 
 because doing so will mark a message ad "read" once I arrow past it, even 
 if I don't read it. What I can say is that I'm back in standard view for 
 now, because there's a bug in classic view where VoiceOver says that every 
 message is a conversation. This gets very verbose, and it wasn't worth 
 dealing with. Standard view works just fine, though.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:02 AM, Les Kriegler  > wrote:
> 
> Hi Alex,
> 
> First of all, thanks for the excellent podcast you did on Apple this. I 
> had a question about mail. I have not upgraded yet. I suspect they will 
> do so soon. I am wondering since I use classic view to read mail in 
> conversation threads, I use VO – J all the time. Will I be able to do 
> that as I have been doing well I need to modify how I do this? Thanks.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Alex Hall  > wrote:
> 
>> I've heard one report of the unread status being unreliable, but that's 
>> it. I don't have that problem, and I've not heard anyone else talk about 
>> it aside from that single report. Maybe you'll run into it, but for what 
>> it's worth, I haven't.
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 5:11 AM, Ray Foret Jr >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> I for one, applaud what you and the others are doing with respect to 
>>> your work on Mail and the other parts of Yosemite.  Just one thing 
>>> bothers me.  I am informed that with this version of Mail, messages are 
>>> indicated to be unread even if they have in fact been read.  Is this 
>>> so?  In fact, it's the one small factor holding me back from doing the 
>>> update.  I trust the signatures part crashing has also been fixed?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> the Constantly Barefooted Ray, Still a very happy Mac and iphone user!
>>> Sent from my Mac, the only computer with full accessibility for the 
>>> blind built-in and fully protected by ClamXav Antivirus!
>>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:21 AM, M. Taylor >> > wrote:
>>> 
 Hello Pamela,  
 
 You wrote:
 "Is it different than the junk they released with this most recent OS?"
 
 It truly saddens me that you feel that the current build of Mail is 
 junky.  
 
 While I think I can understand your frustration, I want you to know 
 that I
 and others worked very hard to make sure that the core functionality 
 of the
 application was not lost in this, the first commercial release of the
 application.  
 
 In the previous version of Mail, using the VoiceOver + arrow key 
 combos made
 sense in terms of the order in which items were placed into focus.  
 Now, as
 you have no doubt discovered, navigating from the Mailboxes Table to 
 the
 Messages table, for example, is no longer linear.  In fact, the order 
 in
 which they appear makes no sense, at all, from a VoiceOver user's
 perspective, in my opinion of course.  
 
 Please know that these kinds of things have been bugged and Apple is 
 quite
 aware of them.  I do not know why they were not addressed in this 
 release
 but rest assured that I and others will continue to press for 
 improvements.
 
 
 I, personally, don't use the Classic view but, with just one or two 
 little
 changes in keystroke combos, the Standard view works just as well as 
 it did
 in Maverick.  
 
 I do not write this because I am trying to save face for Apple, I am 
 writing
 this because I believe in the power of this application.
 
 I will be happy to help you get your Mail

One More iTunes Library Question

[Alex Hall]

Hi all,
I am about to copy over my old iTunes library, but I have one more question. 
I've already synced my iPhone with iTunes a few times. Will this mess up any 
syncing moving forward, or restoring encrypted backups, or anything? Similarly, 
since I never use them, can I replace or get rid of the Mobile Applications 
folder in the old library?

--
Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

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Re: The letter to Accessibility: was voice commands on yosemite

[John Panarese]

 Well said, Cheryl.  I have no idea what the person is talking about below. 
 Yosemite went through a rigorous and fairly lengthy testing process.  Yosemite 
is working fine with every client I work with and with friends, blind and 
sighted alike.  Compared to the first release of Mavericks, Yosemite is running 
quite well.  Yes, iTunes has changed, but change is not necessarily bad.  Take 
some time to try to figure things out and explore.

  Lastly, please do not make unfounded and assumption based accusations 
about Apple when one has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.  There 
is nothing wrong with voicing opinions, but there is also a logical, common 
sense line one should use when stating opinions on a public list.

 

Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 Mountain 
Lion

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Oct 19, 2014, at 4:26 PM, Cheryl Homiak  wrote:
> 
> While I would always support people freely expressing their opinions, I see 
> some problems with the content of this letter. Because you have submitted 
> this to this email list, while I will never write anything insulting or 
> derogatory of anybody here, I do think it is appropriate to express my 
> concerns about what was written in the same place where you have posted your 
> opinions. This is by no means a personal critique, confrontation, or in any 
> way flaming. I do not know the writer and would write the same things if my 
> best friend had written this.
> 
> First of all, unless you participated in the developer beta or the public 
> beta, this seems to me to be a little hasty. The OS has been out only since 
> Thursday afternoon so you haven’t had much time to work with it or get help 
> from others. Of course bugs and problems should be pointed out immediately, 
> but it would seem to me that one should work with a new system for a while 
> before coming to the conclusions you have come to in your email to 
> Accessibility. As I recall, you were expressing these views very soon after 
> the upgrade was released. Even if you did participate in one of the betas, I 
> would think that you would hold off on such a strong negative response since 
> you can see from the list traffic that some people - blind and visually 
> impaired people -  are adapting to the new OS and even enjoying it.
> 
> Secondly, what has been written  doesn’t appear to be wholly factual and 
> accurate to me. Yes, the sidebar in iTunes is gone but some people are  
> finding their music just fine. You don’t like the change; maybe there are 
> changes I don’t like. But “it isn’t accessible” and “I don’t like it” or “I 
> can’t figure this out”   are not synonymous. There have been several posts 
> where people explained how to work with iTunes without the sidebar and while 
> some of this specifically talked about Windows, this is also true on the Mac. 
> The same can be said for spotlight. I am not saying there might not be any 
> limitations or problems but I am searching and finding, within my own 
> computer and outside. Just went to Wikipedia to read about Christopher 
> Columbus for instance. Even the subject line isn’t really descriptive of what 
> is being written. “Voice commands” does not immediately make me think of 
> voiceover or access for blind people in particular.
> 
> Thirdly, the explanations given do not contain concrete replicable details. 
> You don’t mention what various methods you have tried to employ to find your 
> music in iTunes or to search with spotlight in light of the changes and then 
> described what happens when you try these strategies. There is nothing here 
> for anybody in accessibility to really take hold of and run with except for 
> your citation of the website with the list of bugs.
> 
> Fourthly, you bring up trust. I would leave the issue of trust to my 
> relationships with close friends and God; I do not trust companies, nor do I 
> distrust them. I evaluate what they are doing related to what I need and use 
> or don’t use the services and products accordingly.
> 
> Fifthly, the lack of substantial facts and replicable description is 
> accompanied by a great amount of angry accusation and emotionally-based 
> claims that cannot be proven. How do any of us know what those who developed 
> this OS were thinking? How do you know we all got slapped in the face? You 
> certainly are not reflecting my view when you write this though certainly 
> there are probably others who would agree with you. I understand that you 
> feel that the input of those blind people who participated in betas, which 
> were both developer and public betas, was not valued on the same level as 
> reports of other testers about issues other than voiceover, but even if it 
> could be concretely

Strange problem with accessing my airport extreme

[Joseph]

Hello list,
For some reason, I'm no longer able to completely access my airport extreme 
configurations. Last Thursday I updated the OS on my iMac and now when I launch 
Airport, I see internet working normally but I am unable to access 
configurations. Also the app says that it cant find any airport configurations. 
Well, that's really strange, because I'm emailing this message through my 
extreme and it appears to be working just fine. Both ethernet and wirelessly. 
Just cant access and change configurations.
I'm curious to know if anyone else is having this problem. You know, in a few 
weeks I plan on purchasing a new time capsule. But if I won't even be able to 
set it up, why spend the money?

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Re: osx 10.10

['Chris Blouch' via MacVisionaries]

There are a number of apps that do this although I haven't tried any of 
them. Here is a free one so give it a whirl:


https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/remote-mouse-mobile-trackpad/id385894596

Here is another free one:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/mobile-mouse-remote-mouse/id356395556

Any yet another free one:

https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/touch-mouse/id338237450

CB

On 10/20/14, 1:01 AM, Cheryl Homiak wrote:
How cool would that be! An app that turns your i-device into a 
trackpad for your Mac!


--
Cheryl

I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
thrown in the trash!
Then God gave me a new heart and life:
His joy for my despairing tears!
And now, every day:
"This I call to mind,
and therefore I have hope:
The steadfast love of the Lord
never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
they are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness."
(Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)




On Oct 19, 2014, at 11:30 PM, Devin Prater > wrote:


Oh, and for future reference, I don't have a pet mouse. Those rodents 
are too much trouble. But I may just try and find one, or... Oh my 
gosh, I could get a trackpad! Unless someone has found an actual iOS 
app for that that actually works as a trackpad.


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 19, 2014, at 9:41 PM, Alex Hall > wrote:


If you still have sighted help, have the person click in the 
password field, then try typing. Once you log in, you can go to 
System Preferences and make sure VoiceOver is set to come on at the 
login screen. If it is, try unchecking and re-checking the box.
On Oct 19, 2014, at 10:28 PM, Devin Prater > wrote:


Its been sitting there for quite a while. My keyboard doasome not 
have a fn key. It is a Logitech keyboard, and worked fine under the 
recovery partition.


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 19, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Cheryl Homiak > wrote:


Okay, if recovery mode works I would think we can say your hard 
drive hasn't gone dead because it would be a different partition 
on the same drive. Can I assume you waited a good long time after 
putting in your password and pressing enter? not trying to insult 
your intelligence; just trying to work through the possibilities I 
know.


If I understand correctly, you do cmd-f5 and voiceover still 
doesn't come on. Is your volume turned up? Remember by default 
increasing the volume does not produce a sound effect. I know that 
even if this is the case it doesn't solve the problem of nothing 
happening after you enter your password but I figure if we crack 
one problem we may soon crack the other too. Did you also try 
cmd-fn-5 to try to turn vo on instead of just cmd-f5? Probably 
Apple will have a concrete idea of what is wrong to give you so if 
you want to ignore my ideas until you've heard from them, that's 
okay. I don't have any special knowledge or certification except 
my own experience with my machine and others' computers, so all I 
know to do is plod through the questions that come to mind.


--
Cheryl

I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
thrown in the trash!
Then God gave me a new heart and life:
His joy for my despairing tears!
And now, every day:
"This I call to mind,
and therefore I have hope:
The steadfast love of the Lord
never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
they are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness."
(Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)




On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:45 PM, Devin Prater > wrote:


I've never enabled file vault. Also, I'm on a USb keyboard

Sent from my iPad

On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:42 PM, Cheryl Homiak > wrote:


Okay, let me ask you a couple more questions.

Did you enable file vault or is there any possibility of that?

What keyboard are you using? It might be that your keyboard and 
the Mac aren't working together, especially if it's bluetooth. 
If you are using a bluetooth keyboard, can you try a different 
brand one or better yet a usb one?


--
Cheryl

I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
thrown in the trash!
Then God gave me a new heart and life:
His joy for my despairing tears!
And now, every day:
"This I call to mind,
and therefore I have hope:
The steadfast love of the Lord
never ceases;
his mercies never come to an end;
they are new every morning;
great is your faithfulness."
(Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)




On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Devin Prater > wrote:


Well, now my mac is unusable. I starteaed it up, and voiceover 
wasn't speaking. I reinstalled osx and voiceover still isn't 
speaking. I enter my password and nothing happens when I press 
enter. So good job Apple, I can't use my mac in other than 
recovery mode. Thanks. Good going Apple. A good way to show 
support to a loyal customer.


Sent from my iPad

On Oct 19, 2014, at 12:18 PM, Juan Hernandez

RE: VO and lag on Yosemite

[wayne17a]

Hello I have just found out the reason for my lag when I installed this os I
had file vault incrypt my files but I did not know this at the time and now
it has finished there is no lag to talk of so check in the background to see
if file vault is incrypting hope this helps 

 

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: VO and lag on Yosemite

 

The lag seems random. I've heard of 4GB ram machines running fine, while
newer ones with more ram have the lag. I've heard that Nuance voices cause
the problem, and that they don't. I've been told a clean install made things
worse, or a bit better. All I can say is: if you have this problem, report
it to Apple along with the specifics of your machine. Hopefully they can pin
it down that way.

On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:52 PM, Phil Halton  wrote:

 

This lag issue is a bbig deal breaker for me. I won't upgrade until
something is done about it. I mean, c'mon apple! I don't care about fancy
new features, just don't screw up the basics. a sluggish response would
drive me nuts - I'd probably go back to windows rather than put up with
that.

 

On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:43 PM, David Eagle  wrote:





Well I'm not getting any lag whatsoever. If nything, it seems more
responsive. I'm using the Daniel Nuance voice. I'm running a 2011 MacBook
Pro. However, I do have 8 gig of ram I think. 

On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:25, David Griffith  wrote:

 

What is  the spec of your machine with this lag?

So far observing posts on list  the people who have reported lag and specs
appear to have 4GB machines. I have a 2011 iMac but 16 GB so am hoping that
the lag will not be so much of an issue if I make the leap.

 

David Griffith   

On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:02, Vic  wrote:





I clean-installed Yosemite and this seems to have improved VoiceOver
response somewhat, but there's still the feeling of pushing the stone up the
mountain when typing or navigating with VoiceOver. Interestingly enough,
with a Braille display connected, you definitely see how much faster the
text appears there as compared to Alex speaking it.


On Saturday, October 18, 2014 10:26:43 AM UTC-7, Christopher Hallsworth
wrote:

Hi all 
I can tell you that during the developer previews and public betas the 
lag has been always there somewhat. I did both a clean install and an 
update on a secondary partition on my internal disk with the same 
results. This was on a late 2011 Macbook Pro 13 with 4 GB of RAM. It's 
tolerable but do sympathize with those having a more severe lag than I am. 


Sent from my laptop 

On 18/10/2014 14:10, Alex Hall wrote: 
> I've heard one or two reports of a clean install making the lag
considerably worse, which is something I've never heard of a clean install
doing. For my part, the lag with Alex is there but tolerable, while the lag
with Nuance voices is ridiculous. I have no activities, and I'm on a 2012
MacBook Air, 4GB ram, 1.7GhZ I5 processor. 
>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 7:40 AM, David Griffith  > wrote: 
>> 
>> When  I moved from Mountain Lion to Mavericks I noticed a big improvement
once I had made a clean install 
>> . This may assist you as well this time and also you may want to look to
make sure you do not have activities running just in case this is an issue
for Yosemite as well. 
>> When I move to Yosemite I will probably attempt an upgrade but will then
probably do a clean install  later if there are any performance issue.
That  process appeared to work well then with all my apps etc being taken
across from myTime Machine. 
>> 
>> David Griffith 
>> On 18 Oct 2014, at 00:32, Faisal 
> wrote: 
>> 
>>> yes, i did it but nothing happens 
 On 18 Oct 2014, at 08:22, Maria and Joe Chapman   > wrote: 
 
 Hi.  have you tried repairing permissions and has this made any
difference? 
 thanks ? 
 Blessings! 
 maria and Joe chapman 
 bubbyg...@gmail.com    
 
 
 
 On 18 Oct 2014, at 12:28 pm, Dionipher Herrera   > wrote: 
 
> yes me too, and i hate it. 
>> On 18 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Faisal 
> wrote: 
>> 
>> Hi all, 
>> so I took the plunge and installed Yosemite. I'm noticing a definite
lag with voice over. Is anyone else noticing this as well? 
>> I'm using Alex 
>> Thanks 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to macvisionarie...@googlegroups.com 
. 
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisi...@googlegroups.com
  . 
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com

yosemite and spotlight search

['Jim Fettgather' via MacVisionaries]

I have a quick question about the way that Spotlight is supposed to work in 
Yosemite.

As far as I have been able to read, you should be able to get web results from 
Bing, using Spotlight.

So, pressing Command Spacebar, which brings up the edit box, and then typing in 
a search term, using the down arrow key produces absolutely no results.

Results are indeed displayed for documents and email, but I am hoping that 
there might be an easy way to get Bing results  displayed in Spotlight, if this 
is supposed to be the way that it works.
Thanks.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"MacVisionaries" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

RE: osx 10.10

[wayne17a]

Hello I think you have to route the vo whith I think vo f5 but I might be
wrong and I am sure somebody will know on this list but I think I can
remember having to do this to make the edit box active with vo so hope this
helps

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:43 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: osx 10.10

I just sent my problem to Apple Accessibility, so maybe, just maybe, I won't
have to throw this mac away, lol. This is so horrible that it's laughable. 

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:37 PM, Robin  wrote:
> 
> You're right, and I agree.
> 
> At 03:53 PM 10/19/2014, you wrote:
>> Thank God Eileen you have some sense.
>> There are too many people out here who are too willing to settle for
whatever Apple gives us for fear of everything being taken from us. If we
don't make our voices heard, Apple will take everything from us slowly but
surely, and leaving the same people very grateful for the little they still
have. How asinine. If we were proactive no one would have anything to be
afraid of. It's not about complaining it's about being constructive. Our
cited counterparts don't have any issues with making their voices known
about a product defect of some sort. We shouldn't either. Ultimately those
who say something to make it right for everyone gain more respect in the
long run. The majority of blind people have been conditioned to gripe within
their own bunch rather then communicate with those who could conceivably
help them for fear that they won't help them. I enjoy the interaction and
the help from any list I subscribed to technically oriented. However at the
same time I'm also one who will pick up the phone or write an email to
someone without having to answer to a group or organization.
>> If more of us did that there would be less to be afraid of.
>> 
>> Pam Francis
>> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 4:57 PM, Eileen Misrahi 
wrote:
>> 
>> For many years, Apple has been held to a higher standard in
accessibility. I posted about a problem that I was having and still having
with updating my apps in the app store on my iPhone 4 using iOS 7.0.6. I did
white to the accessibility team at Apple, but received an unacceptable
response. They basically stated that they couldn't communicate with my
address (a joke), and to either restore from a recent backup or to restore
to the default settings. I regarded this as a lame excuse. Because I am just
waiting for the next iOS 8.1 update, I was willing to leave it alone until
another friend indicated that he was having the same trouble using iOS
7.1.2. We put our heads together and came up with 2 work arounds, but why do
we need to be the ones that have to think out-of-the-box all of the time? I
believe that we all need to become more pro-active and make our voices heard
with the Apple accessibility team. It's not enough just for less than a
handful to make Apple aware of all of the screwups that have happened in iOS
8 and now in Yosemite. I don't want to seem like I'm complaining, but as a
blind community we need to continue to hold Apple to a higher standard and
keep plugging away to obtain the products that r sighted counterparts just
take for granted. JMO.
>> 
>> Eileen
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>> > On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:53 PM, Christopher Hallsworth
 wrote:
>> >
>> > Well, same was true when iOS 8 beta 1 was released to developers. It
wasn't very nice at all. Good job it only ran on my mini as didn't want to
get stuck with an unreliable, possibly unusable 4s. All is history now.
>> >
>> >> On 19/10/2014 21:18, Brandt Steenkamp wrote:
>> >> For those complaining about Yosemite, be grateful, Apple did not
release developer preview one to the public.
>> >>
>> >> I will not go into detail here, but suffice it to say, it was not a
very nice experience.
>> >>
>> >> Everything is working like clockwork on my end now, including all
continuity features, except SMS, which is not suppose to work yet anyway.
>> >>
>> >> I am grateful we have no Windows computers in the house, for if my
soon to be wife was running anything but a Mac yesterday when her computer
decided to give us trouble, we would have been up crap creak without a
paddle.
>> >>
>> >> Warm regards,
>> >>
>> >> Brandt Steenkamp
>> >>
>> >> Sent from my macbook pro
>> >>
>> >> Contact me:
>> >>
>> >> Mobile/iMessage/WatsApp: +27605259181
>> >>
>> >> Email: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com
>> >>
>> >> My ring to Skype:
>> >> California, United States
>> >>  +(1)760-5140161
>> >> Extension 512
>> >> Cape Town, South Africa
>> >>   +(27)213-002317
>> >> Extension 161
>> >> Johannesburg, South Africa
>> >> +(27)105-002316
>> >> Extension 170
>> >>
>> >> Skype: Brandt.steenkamp007
>> >>
>> >> SIP: 5500...@spokn.com
>> >>
>> >> Twitter: brandtsteenkamp
>> >>
>> >>> On 19 Oct 2014, at 10:08 PM, Christopher Hallsworth
 wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Yeah, I feel some have so muc

Re: VO and lag on Yosemite

[Alex Hall]

I definitely don't have File Vault enabled, so this isn't the problem on my 
machine.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:01 AM, wayne17a  wrote:
> 
> Hello I have just found out the reason for my lag when I installed this os I 
> had file vault incrypt my files but I did not know this at the time and now 
> it has finished there is no lag to talk of so check in the background to see 
> if file vault is incrypting hope this helps
>  
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:03 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: VO and lag on Yosemite
>  
> The lag seems random. I've heard of 4GB ram machines running fine, while 
> newer ones with more ram have the lag. I've heard that Nuance voices cause 
> the problem, and that they don't. I've been told a clean install made things 
> worse, or a bit better... All I can say is: if you have this problem, report 
> it to Apple along with the specifics of your machine. Hopefully they can pin 
> it down that way.
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:52 PM, Phil Halton > > wrote:
>>  
>> This lag issue is a bbig deal breaker for me. I won't upgrade until 
>> something is done about it. I mean, c'mon apple! I don't care about fancy 
>> new features, just don't screw up the basics. a sluggish response would 
>> drive me nuts - I'd probably go back to windows rather than put up with that.
>>  
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:43 PM, David Eagle > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Well I'm not getting any lag whatsoever. If nything, it seems more 
>> responsive. I'm using the Daniel Nuance voice. I'm running a 2011 MacBook 
>> Pro. However, I do have 8 gig of ram I think. 
>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:25, David Griffith >> > wrote:
>>>  
>>> What is  the spec of your machine with this lag?
>>> So far observing posts on list  the people who have reported lag and specs 
>>> appear to have 4GB machines. I have a 2011 iMac but 16 GB so am hoping that 
>>> the lag will not be so much of an issue if I make the leap.
>>>  
>>> David Griffith   
>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:02, Vic >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I clean-installed Yosemite and this seems to have improved VoiceOver 
>>> response somewhat, but there's still the feeling of pushing the stone up 
>>> the mountain when typing or navigating with VoiceOver. Interestingly 
>>> enough, with a Braille display connected, you definitely see how much 
>>> faster the text appears there as compared to Alex speaking it.
>>> 
>>> On Saturday, October 18, 2014 10:26:43 AM UTC-7, Christopher Hallsworth 
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi all 
>>> I can tell you that during the developer previews and public betas the 
>>> lag has been always there somewhat. I did both a clean install and an 
>>> update on a secondary partition on my internal disk with the same 
>>> results. This was on a late 2011 Macbook Pro 13 with 4 GB of RAM. It's 
>>> tolerable but do sympathize with those having a more severe lag than I am. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my laptop 
>>> 
>>> On 18/10/2014 14:10, Alex Hall wrote: 
>>> > I've heard one or two reports of a clean install making the lag 
>>> > considerably worse, which is something I've never heard of a clean 
>>> > install doing. For my part, the lag with Alex is there but tolerable, 
>>> > while the lag with Nuance voices is ridiculous. I have no activities, and 
>>> > I'm on a 2012 MacBook Air, 4GB ram, 1.7GhZ I5 processor. 
>>> >> On Oct 18, 2014, at 7:40 AM, David Griffith >> >> > wrote: 
>>> >> 
>>> >> When  I moved from Mountain Lion to Mavericks I noticed a big 
>>> >> improvement once I had made a clean install 
>>> >> . This may assist you as well this time and also you may want to look to 
>>> >> make sure you do not have activities running just in case this is an 
>>> >> issue for Yosemite as well. 
>>> >> When I move to Yosemite I will probably attempt an upgrade but will then 
>>> >> probably do a clean install  later if there are any performance issue.   
>>> >> That  process appeared to work well then with all my apps etc being 
>>> >> taken across from myTime Machine. 
>>> >> 
>>> >> David Griffith 
>>> >> On 18 Oct 2014, at 00:32, Faisal  
>>> >> > wrote: 
>>> >> 
>>> >>> yes, i did it but nothing happens 
>>>  On 18 Oct 2014, at 08:22, Maria and Joe Chapman >>   > wrote: 
>>>  
>>>  Hi.  have you tried repairing permissions and has this made any 
>>>  difference? 
>>>  thanks ? 
>>>  Blessings! 
>>>  maria and Joe chapman 
>>>  bubbyg...@gmail.com  >>  > 
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  
>>>  On 18 Oct 2014, at 12:28 pm, Dionipher Herrera >>   > wrote: 
>>>  
>>> > yes me too, and i hate it. 
>>> >> On 18 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Faisal  
>>> >> 

Re: VO and lag on Yosemite

[The Believer]

Alex,
   OS X keeps many logs. One at least should be able to provide clues. 
I would like to know which one would be useful for this as I want to see 
what Mavericks is doing directly after login for the next 30-60 seconds.


   Have you done this? It might help to see what is going on there.

From The Believer. . .
 . . . what if it were true?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/20/2014 8:24 AM, Alex Hall wrote:

I definitely don't have File Vault enabled, so this isn't the problem on my 
machine.

On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:01 AM, wayne17a  wrote:

Hello I have just found out the reason for my lag when I installed this os I 
had file vault incrypt my files but I did not know this at the time and now it 
has finished there is no lag to talk of so check in the background to see if 
file vault is incrypting hope this helps

From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Alex Hall
Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:03 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: VO and lag on Yosemite

The lag seems random. I've heard of 4GB ram machines running fine, while newer 
ones with more ram have the lag. I've heard that Nuance voices cause the 
problem, and that they don't. I've been told a clean install made things worse, 
or a bit better... All I can say is: if you have this problem, report it to 
Apple along with the specifics of your machine. Hopefully they can pin it down 
that way.

On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:52 PM, Phil Halton mailto:philh...@gmail.com>> wrote:

This lag issue is a bbig deal breaker for me. I won't upgrade until something 
is done about it. I mean, c'mon apple! I don't care about fancy new features, 
just don't screw up the basics. a sluggish response would drive me nuts - I'd 
probably go back to windows rather than put up with that.

On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:43 PM, David Eagle mailto:onlineea...@googlemail.com>> wrote:


Well I'm not getting any lag whatsoever. If nything, it seems more responsive. 
I'm using the Daniel Nuance voice. I'm running a 2011 MacBook Pro. However, I 
do have 8 gig of ram I think.

On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:25, David Griffith mailto:daj.griff...@gmail.com>> wrote:

What is  the spec of your machine with this lag?
So far observing posts on list  the people who have reported lag and specs 
appear to have 4GB machines. I have a 2011 iMac but 16 GB so am hoping that the 
lag will not be so much of an issue if I make the leap.

David Griffith
On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:02, Vic mailto:vtsa...@gmail.com>> 
wrote:


I clean-installed Yosemite and this seems to have improved VoiceOver response 
somewhat, but there's still the feeling of pushing the stone up the mountain 
when typing or navigating with VoiceOver. Interestingly enough, with a Braille 
display connected, you definitely see how much faster the text appears there as 
compared to Alex speaking it.

On Saturday, October 18, 2014 10:26:43 AM UTC-7, Christopher Hallsworth wrote:
Hi all
I can tell you that during the developer previews and public betas the
lag has been always there somewhat. I did both a clean install and an
update on a secondary partition on my internal disk with the same
results. This was on a late 2011 Macbook Pro 13 with 4 GB of RAM. It's
tolerable but do sympathize with those having a more severe lag than I am.


Sent from my laptop

On 18/10/2014 14:10, Alex Hall wrote:

I've heard one or two reports of a clean install making the lag considerably 
worse, which is something I've never heard of a clean install doing. For my 
part, the lag with Alex is there but tolerable, while the lag with Nuance 
voices is ridiculous. I have no activities, and I'm on a 2012 MacBook Air, 4GB 
ram, 1.7GhZ I5 processor.

On Oct 18, 2014, at 7:40 AM, David Griffith > 
wrote:

When  I moved from Mountain Lion to Mavericks I noticed a big improvement once 
I had made a clean install
. This may assist you as well this time and also you may want to look to make 
sure you do not have activities running just in case this is an issue for 
Yosemite as well.
When I move to Yosemite I will probably attempt an upgrade but will then 
probably do a clean install  later if there are any performance issue.   That  
process appeared to work well then with all my apps etc being taken across from 
myTime Machine.

David Griffith
On 18 Oct 2014, at 00:32, Faisal  
> wrote:


yes, i did it but nothing happens

On 18 Oct 2014, at 08:22, Maria and Joe Chapman  
> wrote:

Hi.  have you tried repairing permissions and has this made any difference?
thanks ?
Blessings!
maria and Joe chapman
bubbyg...@gmail.com  



On 18 Oct 2014, at 12:28 pm, Dionipher Herrera  
> wrote:


yes me too, and i hate it.

On 18 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Faisal  
> wrote:

Hi all,
so I took the plunge and installed Yosemite. I'm noticing a definite lag with 
voice over. Is anyone else noticing thi

Re: The letter to Accessibility: was voice commands on yosemite

[Phil Halton]

John, have any of your clients noticed/suffered the VoiceOver lag that is being 
reported on this list?

On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:06 AM, John Panarese  wrote:

> Well said, Cheryl.  I have no idea what the person is talking about 
> below.  Yosemite went through a rigorous and fairly lengthy testing process.  
> Yosemite is working fine with every client I work with and with friends, 
> blind and sighted alike.  Compared to the first release of Mavericks, 
> Yosemite is running quite well.  Yes, iTunes has changed, but change is not 
> necessarily bad.  Take some time to try to figure things out and explore.
> 
>  Lastly, please do not make unfounded and assumption based accusations 
> about Apple when one has absolutely no idea what they are talking about.  
> There is nothing wrong with voicing opinions, but there is also a logical, 
> common sense line one should use when stating opinions on a public list.
> 
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 Mountain 
> Lion
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 4:26 PM, Cheryl Homiak  wrote:
>> 
>> While I would always support people freely expressing their opinions, I see 
>> some problems with the content of this letter. Because you have submitted 
>> this to this email list, while I will never write anything insulting or 
>> derogatory of anybody here, I do think it is appropriate to express my 
>> concerns about what was written in the same place where you have posted your 
>> opinions. This is by no means a personal critique, confrontation, or in any 
>> way flaming. I do not know the writer and would write the same things if my 
>> best friend had written this.
>> 
>> First of all, unless you participated in the developer beta or the public 
>> beta, this seems to me to be a little hasty. The OS has been out only since 
>> Thursday afternoon so you haven't had much time to work with it or get help 
>> from others. Of course bugs and problems should be pointed out immediately, 
>> but it would seem to me that one should work with a new system for a while 
>> before coming to the conclusions you have come to in your email to 
>> Accessibility. As I recall, you were expressing these views very soon after 
>> the upgrade was released. Even if you did participate in one of the betas, I 
>> would think that you would hold off on such a strong negative response since 
>> you can see from the list traffic that some people - blind and visually 
>> impaired people -  are adapting to the new OS and even enjoying it.
>> 
>> Secondly, what has been written  doesn't appear to be wholly factual and 
>> accurate to me. Yes, the sidebar in iTunes is gone but some people are  
>> finding their music just fine. You don't like the change; maybe there are 
>> changes I don't like. But "it isn't accessible" and "I don't like it" or "I 
>> can't figure this out"   are not synonymous. There have been several posts 
>> where people explained how to work with iTunes without the sidebar and while 
>> some of this specifically talked about Windows, this is also true on the 
>> Mac. The same can be said for spotlight. I am not saying there might not be 
>> any limitations or problems but I am searching and finding, within my own 
>> computer and outside. Just went to Wikipedia to read about Christopher 
>> Columbus for instance. Even the subject line isn't really descriptive of 
>> what is being written. "Voice commands" does not immediately make me think 
>> of voiceover or access for blind people in particular.
>> 
>> Thirdly, the explanations given do not contain concrete replicable details. 
>> You don't mention what various methods you have tried to employ to find your 
>> music in iTunes or to search with spotlight in light of the changes and then 
>> described what happens when you try these strategies. There is nothing here 
>> for anybody in accessibility to really take hold of and run with except for 
>> your citation of the website with the list of bugs.
>> 
>> Fourthly, you bring up trust. I would leave the issue of trust to my 
>> relationships with close friends and God; I do not trust companies, nor do I 
>> distrust them. I evaluate what they are doing related to what I need and use 
>> or don't use the services and products accordingly.
>> 
>> Fifthly, the lack of substantial facts and replicable description is 
>> accompanied by a great amount of angry accusation and emotionally-based 
>> claims that cannot be proven. How do any of us know what those who developed 
>> this OS were thinking? How do you know we all got slapped in the face? You 
>> certainly are not reflecting my view when you write this though certainly 
>> there are probably others who would agree with you. I

Re: VO and lag on Yosemite

[Alex Hall]

I wouldn't even know where to start looking, but if anyone can suggest a log to 
help with this random lag problem, please speak up. The more information we can 
offer Apple, the more they can have to work with.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:38 AM, The Believer  wrote:
> 
> Alex,
>   OS X keeps many logs. One at least should be able to provide clues. I would 
> like to know which one would be useful for this as I want to see what 
> Mavericks is doing directly after login for the next 30-60 seconds.
> 
>   Have you done this? It might help to see what is going on there.
> 
> From The Believer. . .
> . . . what if it were true?
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> 
> On 10/20/2014 8:24 AM, Alex Hall wrote:
>> I definitely don't have File Vault enabled, so this isn't the problem on my 
>> machine.
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:01 AM, wayne17a  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello I have just found out the reason for my lag when I installed this os 
>>> I had file vault incrypt my files but I did not know this at the time and 
>>> now it has finished there is no lag to talk of so check in the background 
>>> to see if file vault is incrypting hope this helps
>>> 
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:03 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: VO and lag on Yosemite
>>> 
>>> The lag seems random. I've heard of 4GB ram machines running fine, while 
>>> newer ones with more ram have the lag. I've heard that Nuance voices cause 
>>> the problem, and that they don't. I've been told a clean install made 
>>> things worse, or a bit better... All I can say is: if you have this 
>>> problem, report it to Apple along with the specifics of your machine. 
>>> Hopefully they can pin it down that way.
 On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:52 PM, Phil Halton >>> > wrote:
 
 This lag issue is a bbig deal breaker for me. I won't upgrade until 
 something is done about it. I mean, c'mon apple! I don't care about fancy 
 new features, just don't screw up the basics. a sluggish response would 
 drive me nuts - I'd probably go back to windows rather than put up with 
 that.
 
 On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:43 PM, David Eagle >>> > wrote:
 
 
 Well I'm not getting any lag whatsoever. If nything, it seems more 
 responsive. I'm using the Daniel Nuance voice. I'm running a 2011 MacBook 
 Pro. However, I do have 8 gig of ram I think.
> On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:25, David Griffith  > wrote:
> 
> What is  the spec of your machine with this lag?
> So far observing posts on list  the people who have reported lag and 
> specs appear to have 4GB machines. I have a 2011 iMac but 16 GB so am 
> hoping that the lag will not be so much of an issue if I make the leap.
> 
> David Griffith
> On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:02, Vic  > wrote:
> 
> 
> I clean-installed Yosemite and this seems to have improved VoiceOver 
> response somewhat, but there's still the feeling of pushing the stone up 
> the mountain when typing or navigating with VoiceOver. Interestingly 
> enough, with a Braille display connected, you definitely see how much 
> faster the text appears there as compared to Alex speaking it.
> 
> On Saturday, October 18, 2014 10:26:43 AM UTC-7, Christopher Hallsworth 
> wrote:
> Hi all
> I can tell you that during the developer previews and public betas the
> lag has been always there somewhat. I did both a clean install and an
> update on a secondary partition on my internal disk with the same
> results. This was on a late 2011 Macbook Pro 13 with 4 GB of RAM. It's
> tolerable but do sympathize with those having a more severe lag than I am.
> 
> 
> Sent from my laptop
> 
> On 18/10/2014 14:10, Alex Hall wrote:
>> I've heard one or two reports of a clean install making the lag 
>> considerably worse, which is something I've never heard of a clean 
>> install doing. For my part, the lag with Alex is there but tolerable, 
>> while the lag with Nuance voices is ridiculous. I have no activities, 
>> and I'm on a 2012 MacBook Air, 4GB ram, 1.7GhZ I5 processor.
>>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 7:40 AM, David Griffith >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> When  I moved from Mountain Lion to Mavericks I noticed a big 
>>> improvement once I had made a clean install
>>> . This may assist you as well this time and also you may want to look 
>>> to make sure you do not have activities running just in case this is an 
>>> issue for Yosemite as well.
>>> When I move to Yosemite I will probably attempt an upgrade but will 
>>> then probably do a clean install  later if there are any performance 
>>> issue.   That  process appeared to work well then with all 

Re: VO and lag on Yosemite

[Pete Nalda]

Isn't crash log still a function of console?

Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
Louie P (Pete) Nalda
MySpace.com/musikonalda
Facebook.com/lpnalda
Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda
Twitter: @lpnalda

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> I wouldn't even know where to start looking, but if anyone can suggest a log 
> to help with this random lag problem, please speak up. The more information 
> we can offer Apple, the more they can have to work with.
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:38 AM, The Believer  wrote:
>> 
>> Alex,
>>   OS X keeps many logs. One at least should be able to provide clues. I 
>> would like to know which one would be useful for this as I want to see what 
>> Mavericks is doing directly after login for the next 30-60 seconds.
>> 
>>   Have you done this? It might help to see what is going on there.
>> 
>> From The Believer. . .
>> . . . what if it were true?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>>> On 10/20/2014 8:24 AM, Alex Hall wrote:
>>> I definitely don't have File Vault enabled, so this isn't the problem on my 
>>> machine.
 On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:01 AM, wayne17a  wrote:
 
 Hello I have just found out the reason for my lag when I installed this os 
 I had file vault incrypt my files but I did not know this at the time and 
 now it has finished there is no lag to talk of so check in the background 
 to see if file vault is incrypting hope this helps
 
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
 Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:03 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: VO and lag on Yosemite
 
 The lag seems random. I've heard of 4GB ram machines running fine, while 
 newer ones with more ram have the lag. I've heard that Nuance voices cause 
 the problem, and that they don't. I've been told a clean install made 
 things worse, or a bit better... All I can say is: if you have this 
 problem, report it to Apple along with the specifics of your machine. 
 Hopefully they can pin it down that way.
> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:52 PM, Phil Halton  > wrote:
> 
> This lag issue is a bbig deal breaker for me. I won't upgrade until 
> something is done about it. I mean, c'mon apple! I don't care about fancy 
> new features, just don't screw up the basics. a sluggish response would 
> drive me nuts - I'd probably go back to windows rather than put up with 
> that.
> 
> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:43 PM, David Eagle  > wrote:
> 
> 
> Well I'm not getting any lag whatsoever. If nything, it seems more 
> responsive. I'm using the Daniel Nuance voice. I'm running a 2011 MacBook 
> Pro. However, I do have 8 gig of ram I think.
>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:25, David Griffith > > wrote:
>> 
>> What is  the spec of your machine with this lag?
>> So far observing posts on list  the people who have reported lag and 
>> specs appear to have 4GB machines. I have a 2011 iMac but 16 GB so am 
>> hoping that the lag will not be so much of an issue if I make the leap.
>> 
>> David Griffith
>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:02, Vic > > wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> I clean-installed Yosemite and this seems to have improved VoiceOver 
>> response somewhat, but there's still the feeling of pushing the stone up 
>> the mountain when typing or navigating with VoiceOver. Interestingly 
>> enough, with a Braille display connected, you definitely see how much 
>> faster the text appears there as compared to Alex speaking it.
>> 
>> On Saturday, October 18, 2014 10:26:43 AM UTC-7, Christopher Hallsworth 
>> wrote:
>> Hi all
>> I can tell you that during the developer previews and public betas the
>> lag has been always there somewhat. I did both a clean install and an
>> update on a secondary partition on my internal disk with the same
>> results. This was on a late 2011 Macbook Pro 13 with 4 GB of RAM. It's
>> tolerable but do sympathize with those having a more severe lag than I 
>> am.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my laptop
>> 
>>> On 18/10/2014 14:10, Alex Hall wrote:
>>> I've heard one or two reports of a clean install making the lag 
>>> considerably worse, which is something I've never heard of a clean 
>>> install doing. For my part, the lag with Alex is there but tolerable, 
>>> while the lag with Nuance voices is ridiculous. I have no activities, 
>>> and I'm on a 2012 MacBook Air, 4GB ram, 1.7GhZ I5 processor.
 On Oct 18, 2014, at 7:40 AM, David Griffith >>> > wrote:
 
 When  I moved from Mountain Lion to Mavericks I noticed a big 
 improvement once I had made a clean install
 . This may assist you as well this time and also 

Re: Strange problem with accessing my airport extreme

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Airport Utility is working fine for me either when accessing from within my 
network or from a totally external environment.  Not sure why yours isn't 
working.  The usual situations when I've seen that sort of behaviour is when 
you're not actually connected to the network that you think you are.  For 
example, your Mac has grabbed signal from your neighbour's WiFi, thus, your 
Internet works fine but seeing your Airport or Airports is not available since 
you're on a different network.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Joseph  wrote:
> 
> Hello list,
> For some reason, I'm no longer able to completely access my airport extreme 
> configurations. Last Thursday I updated the OS on my iMac and now when I 
> launch Airport, I see internet working normally but I am unable to access 
> configurations. Also the app says that it cant find any airport 
> configurations. Well, that's really strange, because I'm emailing this 
> message through my extreme and it appears to be working just fine. Both 
> ethernet and wirelessly. Just cant access and change configurations.
> I'm curious to know if anyone else is having this problem. You know, in a few 
> weeks I plan on purchasing a new time capsule. But if I won't even be able to 
> set it up, why spend the money?
> 
> -- 
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> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: Strange problem with accessing my airport extreme

[Joseph]

Hello Tim,
When I go to system prefs and network, it has my hidden home network listed as 
the active network.
Do you perhaps have any suggestions?
Thanks.

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Airport Utility is working fine for me either when accessing from within my 
> network or from a totally external environment.  Not sure why yours isn't 
> working.  The usual situations when I've seen that sort of behaviour is when 
> you're not actually connected to the network that you think you are.  For 
> example, your Mac has grabbed signal from your neighbour's WiFi, thus, your 
> Internet works fine but seeing your Airport or Airports is not available 
> since you're on a different network.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Joseph  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello list,
>> For some reason, I'm no longer able to completely access my airport extreme 
>> configurations. Last Thursday I updated the OS on my iMac and now when I 
>> launch Airport, I see internet working normally but I am unable to access 
>> configurations. Also the app says that it cant find any airport 
>> configurations. Well, that's really strange, because I'm emailing this 
>> message through my extreme and it appears to be working just fine. Both 
>> ethernet and wirelessly. Just cant access and change configurations.
>> I'm curious to know if anyone else is having this problem. You know, in a 
>> few weeks I plan on purchasing a new time capsule. But if I won't even be 
>> able to set it up, why spend the money?
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
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Re: VO and lag on Yosemite

[Alex Hall]

Yes, but VoiceOver isn't crashing, it's just slow. I looked in recent logs, 
searching for "voice" and then "speech", but got only some speech recognition 
messages and errors, nothing related to VoiceOver.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:49 AM, Pete Nalda  wrote:
> 
> Isn't crash log still a function of console?
> 
> Egun On, Lagunak! (basque for G'day, Mates
> Louie P (Pete) Nalda
> MySpace.com/musikonalda 
> Facebook.com/lpnalda 
> Linkedin.com/in/lpnalda 
> Twitter: @lpnalda
> 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Alex Hall  > wrote:
> 
>> I wouldn't even know where to start looking, but if anyone can suggest a log 
>> to help with this random lag problem, please speak up. The more information 
>> we can offer Apple, the more they can have to work with.
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:38 AM, The Believer >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Alex,
>>>   OS X keeps many logs. One at least should be able to provide clues. I 
>>> would like to know which one would be useful for this as I want to see what 
>>> Mavericks is doing directly after login for the next 30-60 seconds.
>>> 
>>>   Have you done this? It might help to see what is going on there.
>>> 
>>> From The Believer. . .
>>> . . . what if it were true?
>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com 
>>> 
>>> On 10/20/2014 8:24 AM, Alex Hall wrote:
 I definitely don't have File Vault enabled, so this isn't the problem on 
 my machine.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:01 AM, wayne17a  > wrote:
> 
> Hello I have just found out the reason for my lag when I installed this 
> os I had file vault incrypt my files but I did not know this at the time 
> and now it has finished there is no lag to talk of so check in the 
> background to see if file vault is incrypting hope this helps
> 
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>  
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> ] On Behalf Of Alex Hall
> Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2014 9:03 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> 
> Subject: Re: VO and lag on Yosemite
> 
> The lag seems random. I've heard of 4GB ram machines running fine, while 
> newer ones with more ram have the lag. I've heard that Nuance voices 
> cause the problem, and that they don't. I've been told a clean install 
> made things worse, or a bit better... All I can say is: if you have this 
> problem, report it to Apple along with the specifics of your machine. 
> Hopefully they can pin it down that way.
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:52 PM, Phil Halton >  > >> wrote:
>> 
>> This lag issue is a bbig deal breaker for me. I won't upgrade until 
>> something is done about it. I mean, c'mon apple! I don't care about 
>> fancy new features, just don't screw up the basics. a sluggish response 
>> would drive me nuts - I'd probably go back to windows rather than put up 
>> with that.
>> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:43 PM, David Eagle >  > >> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Well I'm not getting any lag whatsoever. If nything, it seems more 
>> responsive. I'm using the Daniel Nuance voice. I'm running a 2011 
>> MacBook Pro. However, I do have 8 gig of ram I think.
>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:25, David Griffith >>  >> >> wrote:
>>> 
>>> What is  the spec of your machine with this lag?
>>> So far observing posts on list  the people who have reported lag and 
>>> specs appear to have 4GB machines. I have a 2011 iMac but 16 GB so am 
>>> hoping that the lag will not be so much of an issue if I make the leap.
>>> 
>>> David Griffith
>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:02, Vic >>  >> >> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I clean-installed Yosemite and this seems to have improved VoiceOver 
>>> response somewhat, but there's still the feeling of pushing the stone 
>>> up the mountain when typing or navigating with VoiceOver. Interestingly 
>>> enough, with a Braille display connected, you definitely see how much 
>>> faster the text appears there as compared to Alex speaking it.
>>> 
>>> On Saturday, October 18, 2014 10:26:43 AM UTC-7, Christopher Hallsworth 
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi all
>>> I can tell you that during the developer previews and public betas the
>>> lag has been always there somewhat. 

Re: switching from mac to windows 7 bootcamp faster?

[Mary Otten]

This book champ looks like a very interesting app. I note that it does not say 
it works under Yosemite. Has anybody tried that? And, while I'm at it, are 
there issues if you upgrade to Yosemite and you have a Boot Camp partition 
running Windows 7? Thanks in advance for help.
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 19, 2014, at 11:00 PM, Brandt  wrote:
> 
> Yes, there is an app called bootchamp. It sits on the extras menu.
> 
> Warm regards,
> 
> Brandt Steenkamp
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 5:32 AM, Juan Hernandez  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi All,
>> 
>> Is there a faster way in the mac to switch back to the windows bootcamp side 
>> of my computer? right now I go to sys prefs -> startup -> set the disk to 
>> bootcamp, and hit rest art.  In windows I can right-click the system trey 
>> icon for bootcamp and hit reboot into mac os x.  Does anyone know of any 
>> ways that I can speed up this process?
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> -- 
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>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
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Re: Strange problem with accessing my airport extreme

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

It could have something to do with your network being hidden.  That shouldn't 
matter, but it's a possibility.  For now, try connecting to it manually.  When 
in Network, System Preferences, determine the IP address of your Airport.  If 
it's not easily visible on the main page of your Network pane, press on the 
Advanced button and then select the TCP/IP tab.  The router's IP will be listed 
there.  It is usually 192.168.1.1 or 10.0.1.1.  When in Airport Utility,, press 
cmd-shift-o which allows you to access Airports directly.  You'll likely need 
to enter your setup password as well.  If this lets you in, then good.  If not, 
I'll have to think harder.  In either case, it sounds like a bug report to 
Apple is necessary.

HTH.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Joseph  wrote:
> 
> Hello Tim,
> When I go to system prefs and network, it has my hidden home network listed 
> as the active network.
> Do you perhaps have any suggestions?
> Thanks.
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Airport Utility is working fine for me either when accessing from within my 
>> network or from a totally external environment.  Not sure why yours isn't 
>> working.  The usual situations when I've seen that sort of behaviour is when 
>> you're not actually connected to the network that you think you are.  For 
>> example, your Mac has grabbed signal from your neighbour's WiFi, thus, your 
>> Internet works fine but seeing your Airport or Airports is not available 
>> since you're on a different network.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Joseph  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello list,
>>> For some reason, I'm no longer able to completely access my airport extreme 
>>> configurations. Last Thursday I updated the OS on my iMac and now when I 
>>> launch Airport, I see internet working normally but I am unable to access 
>>> configurations. Also the app says that it cant find any airport 
>>> configurations. Well, that's really strange, because I'm emailing this 
>>> message through my extreme and it appears to be working just fine. Both 
>>> ethernet and wirelessly. Just cant access and change configurations.
>>> I'm curious to know if anyone else is having this problem. You know, in a 
>>> few weeks I plan on purchasing a new time capsule. But if I won't even be 
>>> able to set it up, why spend the money?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
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> 
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Re: Copying music etc from the latest iTunes to an iPad or iPhone under yosemeti

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

I've never used the method you've outlined.  I perform all my movement of media 
back and forth through iTunes and the specific iDevices page.  That is, if I 
wish to sync specific music, I bring up my iPhone page in iTunes, press on the 
Music tab, Interact with the Scroll area then select what I wish synced.  Once 
the Apply or Sync button is pressed, everything is moved accordingly.  Usually, 
to make my life easiest, I put the songs into a certain playlist then sync that 
playlist.  This makes the process much quicker.

HTH.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 6:49 AM, Dean Adams  wrote:
> 
> Hi All,
>   I have struck a problem with the latest itunes when trying to copy 
> music etc to my iphone , I used to go to the music library find the artist or 
> song I wanted command c to copy the music then go to the sidebar and once in 
> devices and my iphone paste the music etc with command v but now once I 
> navigate to my Iphone I no longer can paste music  etc on to my device . If 
> anyone has successfully been able to manually copy music etc accross to there 
> device can they please give me the instructions on how to be able to oopy my 
> chosen media to my device . Many thanks .
> 
> Regards Dean
> Sent from Dean Adams Macbook Pro
> breezepa...@gmail.com 
> Voip phone: +6124307 9248
> landline Phone: +61243892195
> Mobile: +61428133758
> Skype and Twitter : deanadams9
> 
> 
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Re: Strange problem with accessing my airport extreme

[Joseph]

Hello,
Hello Tim,
Here's the situation thus far.
I used command shift o to log into the airport, it displayed 10.0.1.1 but it 
wouldn't take either my base station password or my wireless password.
Hummm!

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> It could have something to do with your network being hidden.  That shouldn't 
> matter, but it's a possibility.  For now, try connecting to it manually.  
> When in Network, System Preferences, determine the IP address of your 
> Airport.  If it's not easily visible on the main page of your Network pane, 
> press on the Advanced button and then select the TCP/IP tab.  The router's IP 
> will be listed there.  It is usually 192.168.1.1 or 10.0.1.1.  When in 
> Airport Utility,, press cmd-shift-o which allows you to access Airports 
> directly.  You'll likely need to enter your setup password as well.  If this 
> lets you in, then good.  If not, I'll have to think harder.  In either case, 
> it sounds like a bug report to Apple is necessary.
> 
> HTH.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Joseph  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Tim,
>> When I go to system prefs and network, it has my hidden home network listed 
>> as the active network.
>> Do you perhaps have any suggestions?
>> Thanks.
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Airport Utility is working fine for me either when accessing from within my 
>>> network or from a totally external environment.  Not sure why yours isn't 
>>> working.  The usual situations when I've seen that sort of behaviour is 
>>> when you're not actually connected to the network that you think you are.  
>>> For example, your Mac has grabbed signal from your neighbour's WiFi, thus, 
>>> your Internet works fine but seeing your Airport or Airports is not 
>>> available since you're on a different network.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
 On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Joseph  wrote:
 
 Hello list,
 For some reason, I'm no longer able to completely access my airport 
 extreme configurations. Last Thursday I updated the OS on my iMac and now 
 when I launch Airport, I see internet working normally but I am unable to 
 access configurations. Also the app says that it cant find any airport 
 configurations. Well, that's really strange, because I'm emailing this 
 message through my extreme and it appears to be working just fine. Both 
 ethernet and wirelessly. Just cant access and change configurations.
 I'm curious to know if anyone else is having this problem. You know, in a 
 few weeks I plan on purchasing a new time capsule. But if I won't even be 
 able to set it up, why spend the money?
 
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RE: at specialist

[Jen Wilgus]

I am teaching an individual, in person the mac basics, 
And pages. 
We do offer remote training if necessary. 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of esubalew
Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:20 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: at specialist

Hi, so you can teach over Skype?

Esubalew Johnston
 Wanting it won't get it for you! You have to go get   it!

> On Oct 18, 2014, at 9:31 AM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> I only teach Mac beginners when I can do so face to face, which limits my
students to those in the Paris region of France or those who choose to come
on a residential course. The Pages training requires a good knowledge of
VoiceOver.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
> 
>> On 18 Oct 2014, at 17:14, Esubalew Johnston  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all, does she also teach how to use the Mac? thanks
> 
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Re: answering calls on the mac?

[Christina C.]

Where do I go to make the cellular phone call from my mac? Do I make the call 
in faceTime?

Thanks,
Christina

> On Oct 17, 2014, at 9:31 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
> Hi all. I will answer all the questions below to the best of my knowledge.
> 
> 1. Making and answering calls should work on any Mac regardless of year they 
> were made. I have a mid 2010 white MacBook and while I was running the beta 
> of Yosemite, I could make and answer phone calls, and this is the case with 
> the general public release.
> 
> 2. For the last several weeks that I had my 4S, the feature worked just fine.
> 
> 3. The fact that your iPhone and Mac don't see each other when making a call 
> is true, and it's a bug. Even in the beta this was present. My work around 
> for this was to turn off Wifi on my Mac and iPhone, leave it off for 10-30 
> seconds, and turn it back on for both devices. When I did this, I was able to 
> make and answer calls just fine. Like I said, this is a bug, and should be 
> reported to Apple right away. I hope all this helps.
> 
> Shawn
> Sent From My White MacBook
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 8:20 PM, Joseph  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> On my iPhone FaceTime is on, iPhone Cel calls are on. On my iMac it is also 
>> checked in FaceTime Prefs. However, here's where the problem may be, I think.
>> I am using a 27 inch iMac mid 2010 and an iPhone 4S. I think that the 4S is 
>> the problem.
>> Am i unfortunately right about that?
>> Oh well, if so, I'll be purchasing a new iPhone in a few weeks and I just 
>> might purchase a new OS X machine, who knows.
>> 
>>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 6:09 PM, Brett C.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> If you haven't already done this, go to the settings on your phone, go to 
>>> the FaceTime settings and check the box authorizing use of the iPhone for 
>>> calls. You'll want to confirm the same checkbox in the FaceTime app on your 
>>> Mac by opening FaceTime and accessing the option in preferences.
>>> 
 On Oct 17, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Joseph  wrote:
 
 Hello,
 I have the latest iOS update as well as Yosemite on my Mac and I cant get 
 it to work either. It keeps telling me that the phone and the Mac have to 
 be on the same Wi-Fi network and they are.
 Every time I try a call, it just says to try again and it reminds me that 
 both the phone and computer need to be on the same network even though 
 they are. How do I know, I put them there.
 
> On Oct 17, 2014, at 5:19 PM, May McDonald Homuth  
> wrote:
> 
> hmm, for some strange reason I still can't get that feature to work.
> 
> May and LD, Luna Moon!
> www.canadianlynx.ca
> m...@canadianlynx.ca
> 
> On Oct 17, 2014, at 4:30 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
> 
>> Hi Matthew. Actually you can do it with iOS 8.0 .2.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 3:23 PM, matthew Dyer  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> I think you will have to wait till 8.1 is out on monday.
>>> 
>>> Matthew
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 17, 2014, at 4:10 AM, May McDonald Homuth 
  wrote:
 
 Hey there everyone.
 
 For those that have the latest OS for the mac is there a setting I 
 need to find or app so that calls also show on my mac?
 
 I've looked everywhere and can't figure what I'm missing, thanks.
 
 May and LD, Luna Moon!
 www.canadianlynx.ca
 m...@canadianlynx.ca
 
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Re: answering calls on the mac?

[Alex Hall]

Yes, or you can right/control click (vo-shift-m) on any highlighted phone 
number and choose to call it from there.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Christina C.  wrote:
> 
> Where do I go to make the cellular phone call from my mac? Do I make the call 
> in faceTime?
> 
> Thanks,
> Christina
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 9:31 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all. I will answer all the questions below to the best of my knowledge.
>> 
>> 1. Making and answering calls should work on any Mac regardless of year they 
>> were made. I have a mid 2010 white MacBook and while I was running the beta 
>> of Yosemite, I could make and answer phone calls, and this is the case with 
>> the general public release.
>> 
>> 2. For the last several weeks that I had my 4S, the feature worked just fine.
>> 
>> 3. The fact that your iPhone and Mac don't see each other when making a call 
>> is true, and it's a bug. Even in the beta this was present. My work around 
>> for this was to turn off Wifi on my Mac and iPhone, leave it off for 10-30 
>> seconds, and turn it back on for both devices. When I did this, I was able 
>> to make and answer calls just fine. Like I said, this is a bug, and should 
>> be reported to Apple right away. I hope all this helps.
>> 
>> Shawn
>> Sent From My White MacBook
>> 
>>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 8:20 PM, Joseph  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> On my iPhone FaceTime is on, iPhone Cel calls are on. On my iMac it is also 
>>> checked in FaceTime Prefs. However, here's where the problem may be, I 
>>> think.
>>> I am using a 27 inch iMac mid 2010 and an iPhone 4S. I think that the 4S is 
>>> the problem.
>>> Am i unfortunately right about that?
>>> Oh well, if so, I'll be purchasing a new iPhone in a few weeks and I just 
>>> might purchase a new OS X machine, who knows.
>>> 
 On Oct 17, 2014, at 6:09 PM, Brett C.  wrote:
 
 If you haven't already done this, go to the settings on your phone, go to 
 the FaceTime settings and check the box authorizing use of the iPhone for 
 calls. You'll want to confirm the same checkbox in the FaceTime app on 
 your Mac by opening FaceTime and accessing the option in preferences.
 
> On Oct 17, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Joseph  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I have the latest iOS update as well as Yosemite on my Mac and I cant get 
> it to work either. It keeps telling me that the phone and the Mac have to 
> be on the same Wi-Fi network and they are.
> Every time I try a call, it just says to try again and it reminds me that 
> both the phone and computer need to be on the same network even though 
> they are. How do I know, I put them there.
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 5:19 PM, May McDonald Homuth  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> hmm, for some strange reason I still can't get that feature to work.
>> 
>> May and LD, Luna Moon!
>> www.canadianlynx.ca
>> m...@canadianlynx.ca
>> 
>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 4:30 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi Matthew. Actually you can do it with iOS 8.0 .2.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Oct 17, 2014, at 3:23 PM, matthew Dyer  
 wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 I think you will have to wait till 8.1 is out on monday.
 
 Matthew
 
 
> On Oct 17, 2014, at 4:10 AM, May McDonald Homuth 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey there everyone.
> 
> For those that have the latest OS for the mac is there a setting I 
> need to find or app so that calls also show on my mac?
> 
> I've looked everywhere and can't figure what I'm missing, thanks.
> 
> May and LD, Luna Moon!
> www.canadianlynx.ca
> m...@canadianlynx.ca
> 
> -- 
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> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
 
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iOS 8.1

[The Believer]

   iOS 8.1 has been released.

From The Believer. . .
 . . . what if it were true?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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Problem with DJay from algoriddems on OS X Yosemite.

[KJSC radio]

Hello all. so, I have been doing a lot of DJaying with the program called DJay 
from Algoriddems. Great program indeed! But, when I have updated to the new 
version of Yosemite, In just a few minutes playing music from my 8 channel 
mixing board, and other stuff that i use for DJaying, I would here a bit of 
audio stuttering / cutting out a tiny bit. . Do you all know if this is a 
hardware problem? because I have never had this problem before I have upgraded 
and now that I have, not sure what to do with it… I have tested out my setup 
this morning without any broadcasting going on with nicest and it still does it 
within a few minutes tops. I’m running a 2.26 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo processor 
and I have 8 gigs of ram in this thing. so I really don’t think that would be 
the problem because I have had it work flawlessly before using the same specks 
using 10.9.
If anyone can help me figure out the problem, I would be grateful.. I really 
don’t want to have to boot into my internal drive just for this.

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Re: at specialist

[Michael Malver]

Are you using the latest version of pages?
I was having a problem where in images would not be placed where I expected 
them. Apple accessibility said this was a known issue, and fixed it by sending 
me an old version of pages: not exactly what I would call a fix. I am wondering 
if the latest version of pages has fixed image positioning issues.

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 12:22 PM, "Jen Wilgus"  wrote:
> 
> I am teaching an individual, in person the mac basics, 
> And pages. 
> We do offer remote training if necessary. 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of esubalew
> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 3:20 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: at specialist
> 
> Hi, so you can teach over Skype?
> 
> Esubalew Johnston
> Wanting it won't get it for you! You have to go get   it!
> 
>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 9:31 AM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>> I only teach Mac beginners when I can do so face to face, which limits my
> students to those in the Paris region of France or those who choose to come
> on a residential course. The Pages training requires a good knowledge of
> VoiceOver.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> Anne
>> 
>> 
>>> On 18 Oct 2014, at 17:14, Esubalew Johnston  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all, does she also teach how to use the Mac? thanks
>> 
>> -- 
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Re: Preview on Yosemite | Unable to Read some PDFs

[venky . 92]

Hi,
I dont think it is the file size thats causing the problem. I found a 
workaround for this.
In finder, select the pdf you wish to read.
Turn Vo off, open the pdf and turn Vo back on.
Now interact with the pdf content 2 times.
>From what i understood, you will not have to repeat this until you quit preview
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Venkatesh

Sent from my iPhone

> On 20-Oct-2014, at 9:45 am, Nicholas Parsons  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> Yesterday someone else wrote about being unable to read some PDFs. We all 
> assumed this was because the PDFs were images and had not been through an OCR 
> process. I think we were wrong.
> 
> I've been finding some PDFs today at work which VoiceOver will not read. It 
> just says “PDF static text, PDF static text text”. These are PDFs which I 
> have OCR-ed, or were original text-based PDFs, and which until a few days ago 
> I was able to read fine. Interacting twice does not change anything.
> 
> I've tried changing the view, but with no success. No idea why this is 
> happening. If it is a bug it will be a really awful one. Made even worse as 
> ABBYY FineReader has not brought out their update for Yosemite yet.
> 
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Re: Launchbar for OS X

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
What is the price of this launchbar?
Maybe it could be worth checking out.
/A
> 20 okt 2014 kl. 03:53 skrev Traci Duncan :
> 
> When I used windows, I used the run dialog box often.  I loved to find little 
> tricks to make several shortcuts in that box  In some ways launch bar 
> parallels this for me.  It is great fun & useful.
> 
> Enjoy,
> Traci
> 
> On Oct 19, 2014, at 4:31 PM, The Believer  wrote:
> 
>> Traci,
>>  Sounds promising then. If version 6 is current, tha tis probably what I 
>> will end up with. It could be my answer to deal with certain Windows habits 
>> that are hard to break.
>> 
>> From The Believer. . .
>> . . . what if it were true?
>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
>> 
>> On 10/19/2014 3:25 PM, Traci Duncan wrote:
>>> Yes, I use Launch Bar 5 under Maverick.  I really like the app, and I know 
>>> I'm not using it to it's full potential.  :)
>>> 
>>> I haven't tried Launch Bar 6 yet.
>>> 
>>> Traci
>>> 
>>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 10:29 AM, The Believer  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
  When in Applevis the other day, I came across an article on Launchbar for 
 OS X. It sounds like a neat app. Is anyone using it under Mavericks?
 
 From The Believer. . .
 . . . what if it were true?
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 
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>> 
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Re: Strange problem with accessing my airport extreme

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Hmmm is right.  At that point, it should be the BaseStation password that you 
need.  So, after going into Airport Utility, pressing cmd-shift-o, entering the 
IP Address of the router and the BaseStation password,, it rejects you?  I just 
tested it on one of the Extremes I have here at and it opened as I outlined.  
If you have the ability to connect with an ethernet cable, give that a try as 
the direct connection should work for sure.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:45 AM, Joseph  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> Hello Tim,
> Here's the situation thus far.
> I used command shift o to log into the airport, it displayed 10.0.1.1 but it 
> wouldn't take either my base station password or my wireless password.
> Hummm!
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> It could have something to do with your network being hidden.  That 
>> shouldn't matter, but it's a possibility.  For now, try connecting to it 
>> manually.  When in Network, System Preferences, determine the IP address of 
>> your Airport.  If it's not easily visible on the main page of your Network 
>> pane, press on the Advanced button and then select the TCP/IP tab.  The 
>> router's IP will be listed there.  It is usually 192.168.1.1 or 10.0.1.1.  
>> When in Airport Utility,, press cmd-shift-o which allows you to access 
>> Airports directly.  You'll likely need to enter your setup password as well. 
>>  If this lets you in, then good.  If not, I'll have to think harder.  In 
>> either case, it sounds like a bug report to Apple is necessary.
>> 
>> HTH.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Joseph  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Tim,
>>> When I go to system prefs and network, it has my hidden home network listed 
>>> as the active network.
>>> Do you perhaps have any suggestions?
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
 On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 Airport Utility is working fine for me either when accessing from within 
 my network or from a totally external environment.  Not sure why yours 
 isn't working.  The usual situations when I've seen that sort of behaviour 
 is when you're not actually connected to the network that you think you 
 are.  For example, your Mac has grabbed signal from your neighbour's WiFi, 
 thus, your Internet works fine but seeing your Airport or Airports is not 
 available since you're on a different network.
 
 Later...
 
 Tim Kilburn
 Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Joseph  wrote:
> 
> Hello list,
> For some reason, I'm no longer able to completely access my airport 
> extreme configurations. Last Thursday I updated the OS on my iMac and now 
> when I launch Airport, I see internet working normally but I am unable to 
> access configurations. Also the app says that it cant find any airport 
> configurations. Well, that's really strange, because I'm emailing this 
> message through my extreme and it appears to be working just fine. Both 
> ethernet and wirelessly. Just cant access and change configurations.
> I'm curious to know if anyone else is having this problem. You know, in a 
> few weeks I plan on purchasing a new time capsule. But if I won't even be 
> able to set it up, why spend the money?
> 
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Re: Strange problem with accessing my airport extreme

[Joseph]

Hello,
I have the connection through ethernet cable running and I can also connect 
Wi-Fi. I just cant get into configurations. When I put in the base station 
password, nothing at all takes place other than it saying that it's reading 
10.0.1.1 and that's all she wrote.

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Hmmm is right.  At that point, it should be the BaseStation password that you 
> need.  So, after going into Airport Utility, pressing cmd-shift-o, entering 
> the IP Address of the router and the BaseStation password,, it rejects you?  
> I just tested it on one of the Extremes I have here at and it opened as I 
> outlined.  If you have the ability to connect with an ethernet cable, give 
> that a try as the direct connection should work for sure.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:45 AM, Joseph  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> Hello Tim,
>> Here's the situation thus far.
>> I used command shift o to log into the airport, it displayed 10.0.1.1 but it 
>> wouldn't take either my base station password or my wireless password.
>> Hummm!
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> It could have something to do with your network being hidden.  That 
>>> shouldn't matter, but it's a possibility.  For now, try connecting to it 
>>> manually.  When in Network, System Preferences, determine the IP address of 
>>> your Airport.  If it's not easily visible on the main page of your Network 
>>> pane, press on the Advanced button and then select the TCP/IP tab.  The 
>>> router's IP will be listed there.  It is usually 192.168.1.1 or 10.0.1.1.  
>>> When in Airport Utility,, press cmd-shift-o which allows you to access 
>>> Airports directly.  You'll likely need to enter your setup password as 
>>> well.  If this lets you in, then good.  If not, I'll have to think harder.  
>>> In either case, it sounds like a bug report to Apple is necessary.
>>> 
>>> HTH.
>>> 
>>> Later...
>>> 
>>> Tim Kilburn
>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>>> 
 On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Joseph  wrote:
 
 Hello Tim,
 When I go to system prefs and network, it has my hidden home network 
 listed as the active network.
 Do you perhaps have any suggestions?
 Thanks.
 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Airport Utility is working fine for me either when accessing from within 
> my network or from a totally external environment.  Not sure why yours 
> isn't working.  The usual situations when I've seen that sort of 
> behaviour is when you're not actually connected to the network that you 
> think you are.  For example, your Mac has grabbed signal from your 
> neighbour's WiFi, thus, your Internet works fine but seeing your Airport 
> or Airports is not available since you're on a different network.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Joseph  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello list,
>> For some reason, I'm no longer able to completely access my airport 
>> extreme configurations. Last Thursday I updated the OS on my iMac and 
>> now when I launch Airport, I see internet working normally but I am 
>> unable to access configurations. Also the app says that it cant find any 
>> airport configurations. Well, that's really strange, because I'm 
>> emailing this message through my extreme and it appears to be working 
>> just fine. Both ethernet and wirelessly. Just cant access and change 
>> configurations.
>> I'm curious to know if anyone else is having this problem. You know, in 
>> a few weeks I plan on purchasing a new time capsule. But if I won't even 
>> be able to set it up, why spend the money?
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
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Airdrop.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
>From what i understand airdrop is going to work between mac and i devices.
But i can’t make it work.
ANy thoughts on this.
/A 

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Re: Preview on Yosemite | Unable to Read some PDFs

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Report this to apple.
This is a really important one.
/A
> 20 okt 2014 kl. 06:15 skrev Nicholas Parsons :
> 
> Hi list,
> 
> Yesterday someone else wrote about being unable to read some PDFs. We all 
> assumed this was because the PDFs were images and had not been through an OCR 
> process. I think we were wrong.
> 
> I've been finding some PDFs today at work which VoiceOver will not read. It 
> just says “PDF static text, PDF static text text”. These are PDFs which I 
> have OCR-ed, or were original text-based PDFs, and which until a few days ago 
> I was able to read fine. Interacting twice does not change anything.
> 
> I've tried changing the view, but with no success. No idea why this is 
> happening. If it is a bug it will be a really awful one. Made even worse as 
> ABBYY FineReader has not brought out their update for Yosemite yet.
> 
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there are no speakers atached to airport express..

[Caitlyn Furness]

Hi,
OK, I’ve been geting this message for some time now, even back in Mavericks..
when I use airplay in i tunes, a message pops up saying that there are no 
speakers attached to my airport express.  then it gives me an ok button.  If I 
ignore the message, it goes away in a few seconds.

The thing is, the airport extreme is hooked up to our stereo receiver and that 
has speakers attached, obviously!

anybody know how to get rid of this message?

It’s not a big deal, we can still airplay stuff, it’s just annoying!

thanks!
Cait

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Re: osx 10.10

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
There are several out there but i haven't tested them.
/A 
> 20 okt 2014 kl. 07:01 skrev Cheryl Homiak :
> 
> How cool would that be! An app that turns your i-device into a trackpad for 
> your Mac!
> 
> -- 
> Cheryl
> 
> I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
> I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
> thrown in the trash!
> Then God gave me a new heart and life:
> His joy for my despairing tears!
> And now, every day:
> "This I call to mind,
> and therefore I have hope:
> The steadfast love of the Lord
> never ceases;
> his mercies never come to an end;
> they are new every morning;
> great is your faithfulness."
> (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 11:30 PM, Devin Prater > > wrote:
>> 
>> Oh, and for future reference, I don't have a pet mouse. Those rodents are 
>> too much trouble. But I may just try and find one, or... Oh my gosh, I could 
>> get a trackpad! Unless someone has found an actual iOS app for that that 
>> actually works as a trackpad. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 9:41 PM, Alex Hall > > wrote:
>> 
>>> If you still have sighted help, have the person click in the password 
>>> field, then try typing. Once you log in, you can go to System Preferences 
>>> and make sure VoiceOver is set to come on at the login screen. If it is, 
>>> try unchecking and re-checking the box.
 On Oct 19, 2014, at 10:28 PM, Devin Prater >>> > wrote:
 
 Its been sitting there for quite a while. My keyboard doasome not have a 
 fn key. It is a Logitech keyboard, and worked fine under the recovery 
 partition. 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
> On Oct 19, 2014, at 9:05 PM, Cheryl Homiak  > wrote:
> 
> Okay, if recovery mode works I would think we can say your hard drive 
> hasn't gone dead because it would be a different partition on the same 
> drive. Can I assume you waited a good long time after putting in your 
> password and pressing enter? not trying to insult your intelligence; just 
> trying to work through the possibilities I know.
> 
> If I understand correctly, you do cmd-f5 and voiceover still doesn't come 
> on. Is your volume turned up? Remember by default increasing the volume 
> does not produce a sound effect. I know that even if this is the case it 
> doesn't solve the problem of nothing happening after you enter your 
> password but I figure if we crack one problem we may soon crack the other 
> too. Did you also try cmd-fn-5 to try to turn vo on instead of just 
> cmd-f5? Probably Apple will have a concrete idea of what is wrong to give 
> you so if you want to ignore my ideas until you've heard from them, 
> that's okay. I don't have any special knowledge or certification except 
> my own experience with my machine and others' computers, so all I know to 
> do is plod through the questions that come to mind.
> 
> -- 
> Cheryl
> 
> I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
> I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
> thrown in the trash!
> Then God gave me a new heart and life:
> His joy for my despairing tears!
> And now, every day:
> "This I call to mind,
> and therefore I have hope:
> The steadfast love of the Lord
> never ceases;
> his mercies never come to an end;
> they are new every morning;
> great is your faithfulness."
> (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:45 PM, Devin Prater > > wrote:
>> 
>> I've never enabled file vault. Also, I'm on a USb keyboard 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:42 PM, Cheryl Homiak >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Okay, let me ask you a couple more questions.
>>> 
>>> Did you enable file vault or is there any possibility of that?
>>> 
>>> What keyboard are you using? It might be that your keyboard and the Mac 
>>> aren't working together, especially if it's bluetooth. If you are using 
>>> a bluetooth keyboard, can you try a different brand one or better yet a 
>>> usb one?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> Cheryl
>>> 
>>> I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
>>> I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
>>> thrown in the trash!
>>> Then God gave me a new heart and life:
>>> His joy for my despairing tears!
>>> And now, every day:
>>> "This I call to mind,
>>> and therefore I have hope:
>>> The steadfast love of the Lord
>>> never ceases;
>>> his mercies never come to an end;
>>> they are new every morning;
>>> great is your faithfulness."
>>> (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:16 PM, Devin Prater >>> > wrote:
>>

Re: Strange problem with accessing my airport extreme

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

With the computer connected via your ethernet cable, turn off the WiFi adaptor 
on your Mac.  Go back into Airport Utility and see if it's visible.  If not, 
check in the "Other BaseStations" menu to the right of the Networks Scroll area 
and make sure that Ethernet is checked, then look again to determine if the 
router shows up.

Did you have your AppleID in the Back To My Mac section of the BaseStation 
pane?  If so, you could attempt to connect using the Other BaseStations menu 
located just after the Networks Scroll area.  If it doesn't show up there, then 
you probably didn't enter the AppleID info for that resource.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 12:37 PM, Joseph  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I have the connection through ethernet cable running and I can also connect 
> Wi-Fi. I just cant get into configurations. When I put in the base station 
> password, nothing at all takes place other than it saying that it's reading 
> 10.0.1.1 and that's all she wrote.
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Hmmm is right.  At that point, it should be the BaseStation password that 
>> you need.  So, after going into Airport Utility, pressing cmd-shift-o, 
>> entering the IP Address of the router and the BaseStation password,, it 
>> rejects you?  I just tested it on one of the Extremes I have here at and it 
>> opened as I outlined.  If you have the ability to connect with an ethernet 
>> cable, give that a try as the direct connection should work for sure.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:45 AM, Joseph  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> Hello Tim,
>>> Here's the situation thus far.
>>> I used command shift o to log into the airport, it displayed 10.0.1.1 but 
>>> it wouldn't take either my base station password or my wireless password.
>>> Hummm!
>>> 
 On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 It could have something to do with your network being hidden.  That 
 shouldn't matter, but it's a possibility.  For now, try connecting to it 
 manually.  When in Network, System Preferences, determine the IP address 
 of your Airport.  If it's not easily visible on the main page of your 
 Network pane, press on the Advanced button and then select the TCP/IP tab. 
  The router's IP will be listed there.  It is usually 192.168.1.1 or 
 10.0.1.1.  When in Airport Utility,, press cmd-shift-o which allows you to 
 access Airports directly.  You'll likely need to enter your setup password 
 as well.  If this lets you in, then good.  If not, I'll have to think 
 harder.  In either case, it sounds like a bug report to Apple is necessary.
 
 HTH.
 
 Later...
 
 Tim Kilburn
 Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Joseph  wrote:
> 
> Hello Tim,
> When I go to system prefs and network, it has my hidden home network 
> listed as the active network.
> Do you perhaps have any suggestions?
> Thanks.
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Airport Utility is working fine for me either when accessing from within 
>> my network or from a totally external environment.  Not sure why yours 
>> isn't working.  The usual situations when I've seen that sort of 
>> behaviour is when you're not actually connected to the network that you 
>> think you are.  For example, your Mac has grabbed signal from your 
>> neighbour's WiFi, thus, your Internet works fine but seeing your Airport 
>> or Airports is not available since you're on a different network.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Joseph  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello list,
>>> For some reason, I'm no longer able to completely access my airport 
>>> extreme configurations. Last Thursday I updated the OS on my iMac and 
>>> now when I launch Airport, I see internet working normally but I am 
>>> unable to access configurations. Also the app says that it cant find 
>>> any airport configurations. Well, that's really strange, because I'm 
>>> emailing this message through my extreme and it appears to be working 
>>> just fine. Both ethernet and wirelessly. Just cant access and change 
>>> configurations.
>>> I'm curious to know if anyone else is having this problem. You know, in 
>>> a few weeks I plan on purchasing a new time capsule. But if I won't 
>>> even be able to set it up, why spend the money?
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To post to this g

Re: there are no speakers atached to airport express..

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Do you have multiple Airport Expresses connected to your network?  If you have 
checked multiple locations for sending your music and one of them does not have 
speakers connected, that could cause the error.  Second question, is how do you 
have the connection from your Express to the stereo?  Is it using the analog 
connection with RCA plugs into the stereo or is it using an optical cable?  
I’ve not experienced those errors on my system with the analog RCA connection 
to the stereo.

Later…

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> OK, I’ve been geting this message for some time now, even back in Mavericks..
> when I use airplay in i tunes, a message pops up saying that there are no 
> speakers attached to my airport express.  then it gives me an ok button.  If 
> I ignore the message, it goes away in a few seconds.
> 
> The thing is, the airport extreme is hooked up to our stereo receiver and 
> that has speakers attached, obviously!
> 
> anybody know how to get rid of this message?
> 
> It’s not a big deal, we can still airplay stuff, it’s just annoying!
> 
> thanks!
> Cait
> 
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Re: MacSmart? + Yosemite upgrade

[Mark Baxter]

I think it's because I deleted all tracking data and cookies.  922 websites had 
stored cookies or other tracking data!  That's ridiculous, so I removed all 
tracking data.  I believe that I just have to hit the "log in," button on the 
bank site, not just put in name and continue, so that it can reestablish its 
cookie.  But, yeah, I still have the silly upgrade on pause after two days, and 
I'm busy enough that I don't think I have the time to dedicate to a clean 
install, and am not familiar with the process of burning the kernel to a CD.  I 
could figure it out though. 


 * Mark BurningHawk Baxter
http://MarkBurningHawk.net/

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Re: How do i get rid of the preview pane in Mail?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Here’s some instructions I posted back when Mavericks first was released.  Not 
sure how or if they still work in Yosemite, but it’s probably worth a try.

1.  Go into Mail Prefs and select the Viewing pane. 
2.  Check to change to Classic View. 
3.  Close Mail Prefs. 
4.  Navigate to the Horizontal Splitter after the Messages Table. 
5.  Press VO-cmd-f5 to make sure the mouse is focused on the Splitter. 
6.  Press down on the Trackpad then drag downwards to the bottom of the 
physical Trackpad then release.  This could also be done with a mouse instead.

You will know that it worked because the splitter will no longer be right after 
the Messages Table, it will be the last item at the bottom of the window.

7.  Change back into Modern View in the Mail Prefs by unchecking the box. 
8.  Close the Mail Prefs.

You will know that the Preview Pane is closed/hidden/disabled by navigating 
around the Mail window and you will note a Vertical Splitter before and after 
the Messages Column Group.

If it’s not sticking for you, try quitting Mail after getting rid of the 
Preview Pane in Classic view.  Once you re-open Mail, you can change back to 
the Modern View and the change should stick.  At least it has for me numerous 
times.

HTH.
 

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 19, 2014, at 3:51 PM, Daniel K. Gartmann  
> wrote:
> 
> 
> I think our reason is to avoid marking a message as read just by moving over 
> them without opening them. This happens when preview pane is turned on.
> 
> I, for one, can't get this thing turned off and it is one of the more 
> annoying issues I have with Mail and VoiceOver on the  Mac.
> 
> Daniel
> 
> 
> Den 05-10-2014 kl. 06:59 skrev M. Taylor:
>> Hello Krister,
>> 
>> Not to appear provocative but I am curious as to why you want to "get rid 
>> of" the preview pane in mail?
>> 
>> You are not alone, many, many people choose to do so but I do not know why.
>> 
>> As for me, I find that the application works beautifully using the standard 
>> display configuration in conversation view, with the preview pane active.
>> 
>> In fact, were it not for this, the best Mac application I've ever used, 
>> there would be no way I could subscribe to so many mailing lists and hope to 
>> manage them all.
>> 
>> As I said, I'm  just curious.
>> 
>> Thank you,
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Krister Ekstrom
>> Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2014 12:23 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: How do i get rid of the preview pane in Mail?
>> 
>> Hi there,
>> Just wondering how i go about getting rid of the preview pane in mail? I’ve 
>> totally forgotten how so i need a reminder.:-) /Krister
>> 
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>> 
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Re: Airdrop.

[Krister Ekstrom]

Hi,
How old is your mac? Mine is a mid 2011 IMac and it doesn’t work there, however 
on my 2012 Macbook air, it works. I don’t know if it should be that way but 
there you have it. If there’s a setting somewhere i don’t know about then i 
really want to know how to set this.
/Krister

> 20 okt 2014 kl. 20:43 skrev Anders Holmberg :
> 
> Hi!
> From what i understand airdrop is going to work between mac and i devices.
> But i can’t make it work.
> ANy thoughts on this.
> /A 
> 
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iText express and saving documents

[Faisal]

Is anyone else having issues saving in iText express? It keeps crashing for me 
under yosemite.
Thanks

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Re: answering calls on the mac?

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Sorry if this has already been mentioned as I wasn't closely following this 
thread initially.  I recall hearing some people mention that they would like a 
keypad or something similar in order to place calls to people that aren't in 
their Contacts.  I've found that when in FaceTime, just entering a phone number 
in the search field will allow this.  So, I enter 800-555-1212 for example, 
Interact with the Search results and see the phone number with options of 
FaceTime Video or FaceTime audio.  I Interact again then VO-space on the 
FaceTime Audio option and a menu appears.  the confusing part for some here may 
be that the "Call Using iPhone" is dimmed.  This is because it is actually just 
a heading within the menu choices.  If you arrow down further you'll see the 
phone number again, just press return and the call will be placed.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Alex Hall  wrote:
> 
> Yes, or you can right/control click (vo-shift-m) on any highlighted phone 
> number and choose to call it from there.
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Christina C. > > wrote:
>> 
>> Where do I go to make the cellular phone call from my mac? Do I make the 
>> call in faceTime?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Christina
>> 
>>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 9:31 PM, Shawn Krasniuk >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all. I will answer all the questions below to the best of my knowledge.
>>> 
>>> 1. Making and answering calls should work on any Mac regardless of year 
>>> they were made. I have a mid 2010 white MacBook and while I was running the 
>>> beta of Yosemite, I could make and answer phone calls, and this is the case 
>>> with the general public release.
>>> 
>>> 2. For the last several weeks that I had my 4S, the feature worked just 
>>> fine.
>>> 
>>> 3. The fact that your iPhone and Mac don't see each other when making a 
>>> call is true, and it's a bug. Even in the beta this was present. My work 
>>> around for this was to turn off Wifi on my Mac and iPhone, leave it off for 
>>> 10-30 seconds, and turn it back on for both devices. When I did this, I was 
>>> able to make and answer calls just fine. Like I said, this is a bug, and 
>>> should be reported to Apple right away. I hope all this helps.
>>> 
>>> Shawn
>>> Sent From My White MacBook
>>> 
 On Oct 17, 2014, at 8:20 PM, Joseph >>> > wrote:
 
 Hello,
 On my iPhone FaceTime is on, iPhone Cel calls are on. On my iMac it is 
 also checked in FaceTime Prefs. However, here's where the problem may be, 
 I think.
 I am using a 27 inch iMac mid 2010 and an iPhone 4S. I think that the 4S 
 is the problem.
 Am i unfortunately right about that?
 Oh well, if so, I'll be purchasing a new iPhone in a few weeks and I just 
 might purchase a new OS X machine, who knows.
 
> On Oct 17, 2014, at 6:09 PM, Brett C.  > wrote:
> 
> If you haven't already done this, go to the settings on your phone, go to 
> the FaceTime settings and check the box authorizing use of the iPhone for 
> calls. You'll want to confirm the same checkbox in the FaceTime app on 
> your Mac by opening FaceTime and accessing the option in preferences.
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Joseph > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> I have the latest iOS update as well as Yosemite on my Mac and I cant 
>> get it to work either. It keeps telling me that the phone and the Mac 
>> have to be on the same Wi-Fi network and they are.
>> Every time I try a call, it just says to try again and it reminds me 
>> that both the phone and computer need to be on the same network even 
>> though they are. How do I know, I put them there.
>> 
>>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 5:19 PM, May McDonald Homuth >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> hmm, for some strange reason I still can't get that feature to work.
>>> 
>>> May and LD, Luna Moon!
>>> www.canadianlynx.ca 
>>> m...@canadianlynx.ca
>>> 
>>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 4:30 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  wrote:
>>> 
 Hi Matthew. Actually you can do it with iOS 8.0 .2.
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Oct 17, 2014, at 3:23 PM, matthew Dyer  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I think you will have to wait till 8.1 is out on monday.
> 
> Matthew
> 
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 4:10 AM, May McDonald Homuth 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hey there everyone.
>> 
>> For those that have the latest OS for the mac is there a setting I 
>> need to find or app so that calls also show on my mac?
>> 
>> I've looked everywhere and can't figure what I'm missing, thanks.
>> 
>

Just upgraded to Yosemite

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

After all the fuss of the last few days, I just wanted to say that I just 
upgraded to Yosemite, and though I've only been playing with it for a few 
minutes, so far I really like it.  I do experience the lag with VO which I 
could do without, but it's also not so horrible as to interfere with usage.  So 
far all working well with mail and iTunes, and I love having iBooks accessible 
at last.
Cheers,
Donna

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Re: iOS 8.1

[Gabriele Battaglia]

Hi, I can't upgrade from here because I'm out of home, without a solid 
connection.
I would like to read some comments from you guys, about this new 8.1. I saw 
that it is about 127 MB for iPhone 6Plus.

By and happy download.
Gabriel.

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Re: switching from mac to windows 7 bootcamp faster?

[Colin Matthews]

Hi!
Ok I've never used a bootcamp but when I had 2 accounts on this iMac I was 
using fast switching to go from one to the other!
So I do not know if it will work for bootcamp but the option is in Users & 
Groups under log in items so might be worth a look at! [unless someone says it 
don't work *smile*]
HTH Colin

On 20 Oct 2014, at 17:13, Mary Otten  wrote:

> This book champ looks like a very interesting app. I note that it does not 
> say it works under Yosemite. Has anybody tried that? And, while I'm at it, 
> are there issues if you upgrade to Yosemite and you have a Boot Camp 
> partition running Windows 7? Thanks in advance for help.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 11:00 PM, Brandt  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, there is an app called bootchamp. It sits on the extras menu.
>> 
>> Warm regards,
>> 
>> Brandt Steenkamp
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 5:32 AM, Juan Hernandez  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> Is there a faster way in the mac to switch back to the windows bootcamp 
>>> side of my computer? right now I go to sys prefs -> startup -> set the disk 
>>> to bootcamp, and hit rest art.  In windows I can right-click the system 
>>> trey icon for bootcamp and hit reboot into mac os x.  Does anyone know of 
>>> any ways that I can speed up this process?
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
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Re: Just upgraded to Yosemite

[John Panarese]

Hi Donna,
   For the lag issues, have you tried completely restarting the Mac?  Also, 
have you done a permissions repair.  On one of my systems, I had the lag, but 
these two steps have eliminated it completely.  I am not experiencing it on my 
other systems.


Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 Mountain 
Lion

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Oct 20, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> After all the fuss of the last few days, I just wanted to say that I just 
> upgraded to Yosemite, and though I've only been playing with it for a few 
> minutes, so far I really like it.  I do experience the lag with VO which I 
> could do without, but it's also not so horrible as to interfere with usage.  
> So far all working well with mail and iTunes, and I love having iBooks 
> accessible at last.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
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Re: Airdrop.

[Kevin Cussick]

Hello,   I am sory to say I am not sure what air drop is what is it?   and what 
does it do? thanks in advance for your answers.
> On 20 Oct 2014, at 20:10, Krister Ekstrom  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> How old is your mac? Mine is a mid 2011 IMac and it doesn’t work there, 
> however on my 2012 Macbook air, it works. I don’t know if it should be that 
> way but there you have it. If there’s a setting somewhere i don’t know about 
> then i really want to know how to set this.
> /Krister
> 
>> 20 okt 2014 kl. 20:43 skrev Anders Holmberg :
>> 
>> Hi!
>> From what i understand airdrop is going to work between mac and i devices.
>> But i can’t make it work.
>> ANy thoughts on this.
>> /A 
>> 
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Fixed my accessing airport problem

[Joseph]

Hello Tim and List,
Well, this gets even stranger but I fixed it.
Here's what I did.
First I pressed the reset button on the airport extreme and held it for several 
seconds.
Then I was still able to connect through ethernet but Wi-Fi wasn't working. OK, 
so far so good. But I still couldn't access configuration menus in the airport 
utility on my Mac.
So I went to the airport utility on my iPhone. And rebuilt the Wi-Fi and now 
all is well. I can also access the configurations on my macs airport utility 
using Command Shift O.
In OS X 10.9, I didn't have to use the Command Shift O, I just interacted with 
network on the airport utility.
However, all is well and my mac airport and iPHone and other household devices 
are happy happy happy!!

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Re: Just upgraded to Yosemite

[Donna Goodin]

Hi John,

I did try completely restarting the Mac, but I didn't do a permissions repair.  
I'll give that a shot now, thanks for the suggestion.
Donna
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:32 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
> Hi Donna,
>   For the lag issues, have you tried completely restarting the Mac?  Also, 
> have you done a permissions repair.  On one of my systems, I had the lag, but 
> these two steps have eliminated it completely.  I am not experiencing it on 
> my other systems.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 Mountain 
> Lion
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> After all the fuss of the last few days, I just wanted to say that I just 
>> upgraded to Yosemite, and though I've only been playing with it for a few 
>> minutes, so far I really like it.  I do experience the lag with VO which I 
>> could do without, but it's also not so horrible as to interfere with usage.  
>> So far all working well with mail and iTunes, and I love having iBooks 
>> accessible at last.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: iOS 8.1

[Kevin Cussick]

Hi,   I have downloaded it and have not played much but don't see anything 
different yet I have put it on My I pad I will let you know if anything jumps 
out at me.
> On 20 Oct 2014, at 20:28, Gabriele Battaglia  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi, I can't upgrade from here because I'm out of home, without a solid 
> connection.
> I would like to read some comments from you guys, about this new 8.1. I saw 
> that it is about 127 MB for iPhone 6Plus.
> 
> By and happy download.
> Gabriel.
> 
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Re: Just upgraded to Yosemite

[Faisal]

How do you do permission repairs?
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 12:49 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> I did try completely restarting the Mac, but I didn't do a permissions 
> repair.  I'll give that a shot now, thanks for the suggestion.
> Donna
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:32 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Donna,
>>  For the lag issues, have you tried completely restarting the Mac?  Also, 
>> have you done a permissions repair.  On one of my systems, I had the lag, 
>> but these two steps have eliminated it completely.  I am not experiencing it 
>> on my other systems.
>> 
>> 
>> Take Care
>> 
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> 
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 Mountain 
>> Lion
>> 
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> 
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> After all the fuss of the last few days, I just wanted to say that I just 
>>> upgraded to Yosemite, and though I've only been playing with it for a few 
>>> minutes, so far I really like it.  I do experience the lag with VO which I 
>>> could do without, but it's also not so horrible as to interfere with usage. 
>>>  So far all working well with mail and iTunes, and I love having iBooks 
>>> accessible at last.
>>> Cheers,
>>> Donna
>>> 
>>> -- 
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Re: Airdrop.

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
Thanks krister.
Thats it.
I have a mac mini 2011 and maybe thats the reason.
/A
> 20 okt 2014 kl. 21:10 skrev Krister Ekstrom :
> 
> Hi,
> How old is your mac? Mine is a mid 2011 IMac and it doesn’t work there, 
> however on my 2012 Macbook air, it works. I don’t know if it should be that 
> way but there you have it. If there’s a setting somewhere i don’t know about 
> then i really want to know how to set this.
> /Krister
> 
>> 20 okt 2014 kl. 20:43 skrev Anders Holmberg :
>> 
>> Hi!
>> From what i understand airdrop is going to work between mac and i devices.
>> But i can’t make it work.
>> ANy thoughts on this.
>> /A 
>> 
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Re: switching from mac to windows 7 bootcamp faster?

[Brandt Steenkamp]

Yes, I have used it under Yosemite, it works fine.

Warm regards,

Brandt Steenkamp

Sent from my macbook pro

Contact me:

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> On 20 Oct 2014, at 6:13 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:
> 
> This book champ looks like a very interesting app. I note that it does not 
> say it works under Yosemite. Has anybody tried that? And, while I'm at it, 
> are there issues if you upgrade to Yosemite and you have a Boot Camp 
> partition running Windows 7? Thanks in advance for help.
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 11:00 PM, Brandt  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, there is an app called bootchamp. It sits on the extras menu.
>> 
>> Warm regards,
>> 
>> Brandt Steenkamp
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 5:32 AM, Juan Hernandez  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi All,
>>> 
>>> Is there a faster way in the mac to switch back to the windows bootcamp 
>>> side of my computer? right now I go to sys prefs -> startup -> set the disk 
>>> to bootcamp, and hit rest art.  In windows I can right-click the system 
>>> trey icon for bootcamp and hit reboot into mac os x.  Does anyone know of 
>>> any ways that I can speed up this process?
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
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Re: mail in 10.10

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
One thing thats strange is that it asks me to control or check my certificat 
for my smtp.
I just press ok or connect but why doesn’t  this happen in mavericks.
/A 
> 20 okt 2014 kl. 08:50 skrev christopher hallsworth :
> 
> Hi all
> I am seeing some improvements in Mail under Yosemite especially when setting 
> up accounts. I couldn't get a manually configured one to work properly under 
> Mavericks at least when sending messages from that account; this appears to 
> have been resolved in Yosemite. Ok it asked me for the password but after 
> that the message was sent immediately. Early days but looks promising.
>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 07:44, M. Taylor  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello Devin,
>> 
>> While there are some definite changes as to the nuances of Apple Mail, none 
>> of it's functionality, as I perceive it, has been lost in Yosemite.  
>> 
>> Conversely, if you didn't like Mail in Maverick, then you probably won't 
>> like it in Yosemite, either.
>> 
>> In my opinion, Mail is one of the most powerful applications in OS X and it 
>> continues to be my preferred mail client.
>> 
>> Mark 
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
>> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 6:53 PM
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: mail in 10.10
>> 
>> Is mail any more usable in 10.10? Or will I have to keep using iOS and 
>> thunderbird for that? 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 5:16 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> I have a small lagg i think.
>>> Its a bit slow yes.
>>> Though the Yosemite update is not as disappointing as the ios 8 was.
>>> Not yet.
>>> /A
 18 okt 2014 kl. 04:28 skrev Dionipher Herrera :
 
 yes me too, and i hate it.
> On 18 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Faisal  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> so I took the plunge and installed Yosemite. I’m noticing a definite lag 
> with voice over. Is anyone else noticing this as well?
> I’m using Alex
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
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Re: mail in 10.10

[Donna Goodin]

Hi,

I'm seeing this, too.  And I agree, it's kind of annoying, but not a huge deal. 
 Would be nice if there were a way to make it stop, though.
Cheers,
Donna

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> One thing thats strange is that it asks me to control or check my certificat 
> for my smtp.
> I just press ok or connect but why doesn’t  this happen in mavericks.
> /A 
>> 20 okt 2014 kl. 08:50 skrev christopher hallsworth :
>> 
>> Hi all
>> I am seeing some improvements in Mail under Yosemite especially when setting 
>> up accounts. I couldn't get a manually configured one to work properly under 
>> Mavericks at least when sending messages from that account; this appears to 
>> have been resolved in Yosemite. Ok it asked me for the password but after 
>> that the message was sent immediately. Early days but looks promising.
>>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 07:44, M. Taylor  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello Devin,
>>> 
>>> While there are some definite changes as to the nuances of Apple Mail, none 
>>> of it's functionality, as I perceive it, has been lost in Yosemite.  
>>> 
>>> Conversely, if you didn't like Mail in Maverick, then you probably won't 
>>> like it in Yosemite, either.
>>> 
>>> In my opinion, Mail is one of the most powerful applications in OS X and it 
>>> continues to be my preferred mail client.
>>> 
>>> Mark 
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 6:53 PM
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: mail in 10.10
>>> 
>>> Is mail any more usable in 10.10? Or will I have to keep using iOS and 
>>> thunderbird for that? 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
 On Oct 18, 2014, at 5:16 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
 
 Hi!
 I have a small lagg i think.
 Its a bit slow yes.
 Though the Yosemite update is not as disappointing as the ios 8 was.
 Not yet.
 /A
> 18 okt 2014 kl. 04:28 skrev Dionipher Herrera :
> 
> yes me too, and i hate it.
>> On 18 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Faisal  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> so I took the plunge and installed Yosemite. I’m noticing a definite lag 
>> with voice over. Is anyone else noticing this as well?
>> I’m using Alex
>> Thanks
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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> 
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Re: Just upgraded to Yosemite

[Donna Goodin]

Press CMD-Shift-A to open the Applications folder.  then press U to go to 
Utilities, and open that.  There you'll find an app called Disk Utility, launch 
it.  In the app, you'll see an option that says repair disk emissions.  Press 
Enter, and you're golden.  It did solve my lag problem, too, so definitely 
worth giving it a try.  Good luck!
Cheers,
Donna
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:55 PM, Faisal  wrote:
> 
> How do you do permission repairs?
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 12:49 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi John,
>> 
>> I did try completely restarting the Mac, but I didn't do a permissions 
>> repair.  I'll give that a shot now, thanks for the suggestion.
>> Donna
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:32 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Donna,
>>> For the lag issues, have you tried completely restarting the Mac?  Also, 
>>> have you done a permissions repair.  On one of my systems, I had the lag, 
>>> but these two steps have eliminated it completely.  I am not experiencing 
>>> it on my other systems.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Take Care
>>> 
>>> John D. Panarese
>>> Director
>>> Mac for the Blind
>>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>>> 
>>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 
>>> Mountain Lion
>>> 
>>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>>> 
>>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Oct 20, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 After all the fuss of the last few days, I just wanted to say that I just 
 upgraded to Yosemite, and though I've only been playing with it for a few 
 minutes, so far I really like it.  I do experience the lag with VO which I 
 could do without, but it's also not so horrible as to interfere with 
 usage.  So far all working well with mail and iTunes, and I love having 
 iBooks accessible at last.
 Cheers,
 Donna
 
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Re: mail in 10.10

[Kevin Cussick]

Hi,   I got the same in mavericks
I don’t know why this is but I hit OK and just connect I think you can tell 
mail the server is trusted anyway I have had this as well and I have had it 
since updating as well. I am a new to mac so don’t have any helpful tips. sorry.
> On 20 Oct 2014, at 21:02, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm seeing this, too.  And I agree, it's kind of annoying, but not a huge 
> deal.  Would be nice if there were a way to make it stop, though.
> Cheers,
> Donna
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> One thing thats strange is that it asks me to control or check my certificat 
>> for my smtp.
>> I just press ok or connect but why doesn’t  this happen in mavericks.
>> /A 
>>> 20 okt 2014 kl. 08:50 skrev christopher hallsworth 
>>> :
>>> 
>>> Hi all
>>> I am seeing some improvements in Mail under Yosemite especially when 
>>> setting up accounts. I couldn't get a manually configured one to work 
>>> properly under Mavericks at least when sending messages from that account; 
>>> this appears to have been resolved in Yosemite. Ok it asked me for the 
>>> password but after that the message was sent immediately. Early days but 
>>> looks promising.
 On 20 Oct 2014, at 07:44, M. Taylor  wrote:
 
 Hello Devin,
 
 While there are some definite changes as to the nuances of Apple Mail, 
 none of it's functionality, as I perceive it, has been lost in Yosemite.  
 
 Conversely, if you didn't like Mail in Maverick, then you probably won't 
 like it in Yosemite, either.
 
 In my opinion, Mail is one of the most powerful applications in OS X and 
 it continues to be my preferred mail client.
 
 Mark 
 
 -Original Message-
 From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
 Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 6:53 PM
 To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
 Subject: mail in 10.10
 
 Is mail any more usable in 10.10? Or will I have to keep using iOS and 
 thunderbird for that? 
 
 Sent from my iPad
 
> On Oct 18, 2014, at 5:16 PM, Anders Holmberg  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I have a small lagg i think.
> Its a bit slow yes.
> Though the Yosemite update is not as disappointing as the ios 8 was.
> Not yet.
> /A
>> 18 okt 2014 kl. 04:28 skrev Dionipher Herrera :
>> 
>> yes me too, and i hate it.
>>> On 18 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Faisal  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> so I took the plunge and installed Yosemite. I’m noticing a definite 
>>> lag with voice over. Is anyone else noticing this as well?
>>> I’m using Alex
>>> Thanks
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> 
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Re: there are no speakers atached to airport express..

[Caitlyn Furness]

Hi tim,
No, We only have the one airport express.

  My hubby just told me it’s an rca cable going from the airport express to the 
stereo receiver.

I can’t remember just when I started getting these messages, but I know it 
hasn’t been the entire 3 or 4 years that we’ve used the express..

thanks,
Cait

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Do you have multiple Airport Expresses connected to your network?  If you 
> have checked multiple locations for sending your music and one of them does 
> not have speakers connected, that could cause the error.  Second question, is 
> how do you have the connection from your Express to the stereo?  Is it using 
> the analog connection with RCA plugs into the stereo or is it using an 
> optical cable?  I’ve not experienced those errors on my system with the 
> analog RCA connection to the stereo.
> 
> Later…
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> OK, I’ve been geting this message for some time now, even back in Mavericks..
>> when I use airplay in i tunes, a message pops up saying that there are no 
>> speakers attached to my airport express.  then it gives me an ok button.  If 
>> I ignore the message, it goes away in a few seconds.
>> 
>> The thing is, the airport extreme is hooked up to our stereo receiver and 
>> that has speakers attached, obviously!
>> 
>> anybody know how to get rid of this message?
>> 
>> It’s not a big deal, we can still airplay stuff, it’s just annoying!
>> 
>> thanks!
>> Cait
>> 
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Re: Launchbar for OS X

[The Believer]

   $29 US for single license.

From The Believer. . .
 . . . what if it were true?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/20/2014 11:20 AM, Anders Holmberg wrote:

Hi!
What is the price of this launchbar?
Maybe it could be worth checking out.
/A

20 okt 2014 kl. 03:53 skrev Traci Duncan :

When I used windows, I used the run dialog box often.  I loved to find little 
tricks to make several shortcuts in that box  In some ways launch bar parallels 
this for me.  It is great fun & useful.

Enjoy,
Traci

On Oct 19, 2014, at 4:31 PM, The Believer  wrote:


Traci,
  Sounds promising then. If version 6 is current, tha tis probably what I will 
end up with. It could be my answer to deal with certain Windows habits that are 
hard to break.

 From The Believer. . .
. . . what if it were true?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

On 10/19/2014 3:25 PM, Traci Duncan wrote:

Yes, I use Launch Bar 5 under Maverick.  I really like the app, and I know I'm 
not using it to it's full potential.  :)

I haven't tried Launch Bar 6 yet.

Traci

On Oct 18, 2014, at 10:29 AM, The Believer  wrote:


  When in Applevis the other day, I came across an article on Launchbar for OS 
X. It sounds like a neat app. Is anyone using it under Mavericks?

 From The Believer. . .
. . . what if it were true?
ancient.ali...@icloud.com

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Re: answering calls on the mac?

[Alex Hall]

Just FYI, you can hit space on a row in that table, without interacting with 
the row, and that seems to bring up the call menu. I put up a podcast about 
this on AppleVis if anyone wants to hear how it works.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 3:17 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry if this has already been mentioned as I wasn't closely following this 
> thread initially.  I recall hearing some people mention that they would like 
> a keypad or something similar in order to place calls to people that aren't 
> in their Contacts.  I've found that when in FaceTime, just entering a phone 
> number in the search field will allow this.  So, I enter 800-555-1212 for 
> example, Interact with the Search results and see the phone number with 
> options of FaceTime Video or FaceTime audio.  I Interact again then VO-space 
> on the FaceTime Audio option and a menu appears.  the confusing part for some 
> here may be that the "Call Using iPhone" is dimmed.  This is because it is 
> actually just a heading within the menu choices.  If you arrow down further 
> you'll see the phone number again, just press return and the call will be 
> placed.
> 
> Later...
> 
> Tim Kilburn
> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:29 AM, Alex Hall > > wrote:
>> 
>> Yes, or you can right/control click (vo-shift-m) on any highlighted phone 
>> number and choose to call it from there.
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Christina C. >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Where do I go to make the cellular phone call from my mac? Do I make the 
>>> call in faceTime?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> Christina
>>> 
 On Oct 17, 2014, at 9:31 PM, Shawn Krasniuk >>> > wrote:
 
 Hi all. I will answer all the questions below to the best of my knowledge.
 
 1. Making and answering calls should work on any Mac regardless of year 
 they were made. I have a mid 2010 white MacBook and while I was running 
 the beta of Yosemite, I could make and answer phone calls, and this is the 
 case with the general public release.
 
 2. For the last several weeks that I had my 4S, the feature worked just 
 fine.
 
 3. The fact that your iPhone and Mac don't see each other when making a 
 call is true, and it's a bug. Even in the beta this was present. My work 
 around for this was to turn off Wifi on my Mac and iPhone, leave it off 
 for 10-30 seconds, and turn it back on for both devices. When I did this, 
 I was able to make and answer calls just fine. Like I said, this is a bug, 
 and should be reported to Apple right away. I hope all this helps.
 
 Shawn
 Sent From My White MacBook
 
> On Oct 17, 2014, at 8:20 PM, Joseph  > wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> On my iPhone FaceTime is on, iPhone Cel calls are on. On my iMac it is 
> also checked in FaceTime Prefs. However, here's where the problem may be, 
> I think.
> I am using a 27 inch iMac mid 2010 and an iPhone 4S. I think that the 4S 
> is the problem.
> Am i unfortunately right about that?
> Oh well, if so, I'll be purchasing a new iPhone in a few weeks and I just 
> might purchase a new OS X machine, who knows.
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 6:09 PM, Brett C. > > wrote:
>> 
>> If you haven't already done this, go to the settings on your phone, go 
>> to the FaceTime settings and check the box authorizing use of the iPhone 
>> for calls. You'll want to confirm the same checkbox in the FaceTime app 
>> on your Mac by opening FaceTime and accessing the option in preferences.
>> 
>>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 7:00 PM, Joseph >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> I have the latest iOS update as well as Yosemite on my Mac and I cant 
>>> get it to work either. It keeps telling me that the phone and the Mac 
>>> have to be on the same Wi-Fi network and they are.
>>> Every time I try a call, it just says to try again and it reminds me 
>>> that both the phone and computer need to be on the same network even 
>>> though they are. How do I know, I put them there.
>>> 
 On Oct 17, 2014, at 5:19 PM, May McDonald Homuth >>> > wrote:
 
 hmm, for some strange reason I still can't get that feature to work.
 
 May and LD, Luna Moon!
 www.canadianlynx.ca 
 m...@canadianlynx.ca 
 
 On Oct 17, 2014, at 4:30 PM, Shawn Krasniuk  
 wrote:
 
> Hi Matthew. Actually you can do it with iOS 8.0 .2.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 17, 2014, at 3:23 PM, matthew Dyer  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I think you will have to wait till

Re: there are no speakers atached to airport express..

[Tim Kilburn]

Hi,

Is the Express the main router for your home or is it connected either via 
ethernet cable or wirelessly to a different main router?

Later…

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:46 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi tim,
> No, We only have the one airport express.
> 
>  My hubby just told me it’s an rca cable going from the airport express to 
> the stereo receiver.
> 
> I can’t remember just when I started getting these messages, but I know it 
> hasn’t been the entire 3 or 4 years that we’ve used the express..
> 
> thanks,
> Cait
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Do you have multiple Airport Expresses connected to your network?  If you 
>> have checked multiple locations for sending your music and one of them does 
>> not have speakers connected, that could cause the error.  Second question, 
>> is how do you have the connection from your Express to the stereo?  Is it 
>> using the analog connection with RCA plugs into the stereo or is it using an 
>> optical cable?  I’ve not experienced those errors on my system with the 
>> analog RCA connection to the stereo.
>> 
>> Later…
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 12:44 PM, Caitlyn Furness  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> OK, I’ve been geting this message for some time now, even back in 
>>> Mavericks..
>>> when I use airplay in i tunes, a message pops up saying that there are no 
>>> speakers attached to my airport express.  then it gives me an ok button.  
>>> If I ignore the message, it goes away in a few seconds.
>>> 
>>> The thing is, the airport extreme is hooked up to our stereo receiver and 
>>> that has speakers attached, obviously!
>>> 
>>> anybody know how to get rid of this message?
>>> 
>>> It’s not a big deal, we can still airplay stuff, it’s just annoying!
>>> 
>>> thanks!
>>> Cait
>>> 
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Re: VO and lag on Yosemite

[matthew Dyer]

Hi I am using a 2012 iMac  with 8 gb of ram and do not have the lag that has 
been mentioned on this list.

Matthew


> On Oct 19, 2014, at 8:25 PM, David Griffith  wrote:
> 
> What is  the spec of your machine with this lag?
> So far observing posts on list  the people who have reported lag and specs 
> appear to have 4GB machines. I have a 2011 iMac but 16 GB so am hoping that 
> the lag will not be so much of an issue if I make the leap.
> 
> David Griffith   
> On 20 Oct 2014, at 01:02, Vic mailto:vtsa...@gmail.com>> 
> wrote:
> 
>> I clean-installed Yosemite and this seems to have improved VoiceOver 
>> response somewhat, but there's still the feeling of pushing the stone up the 
>> mountain when typing or navigating with VoiceOver. Interestingly enough, 
>> with a Braille display connected, you definitely see how much faster the 
>> text appears there as compared to Alex speaking it.
>> 
>> On Saturday, October 18, 2014 10:26:43 AM UTC-7, Christopher Hallsworth 
>> wrote:
>> Hi all 
>> I can tell you that during the developer previews and public betas the 
>> lag has been always there somewhat. I did both a clean install and an 
>> update on a secondary partition on my internal disk with the same 
>> results. This was on a late 2011 Macbook Pro 13 with 4 GB of RAM. It's 
>> tolerable but do sympathize with those having a more severe lag than I am. 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my laptop 
>> 
>> On 18/10/2014 14:10, Alex Hall wrote: 
>> > I've heard one or two reports of a clean install making the lag 
>> > considerably worse, which is something I've never heard of a clean install 
>> > doing. For my part, the lag with Alex is there but tolerable, while the 
>> > lag with Nuance voices is ridiculous. I have no activities, and I'm on a 
>> > 2012 MacBook Air, 4GB ram, 1.7GhZ I5 processor. 
>> >> On Oct 18, 2014, at 7:40 AM, David Griffith > >> > wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >> When  I moved from Mountain Lion to Mavericks I noticed a big improvement 
>> >> once I had made a clean install 
>> >> . This may assist you as well this time and also you may want to look to 
>> >> make sure you do not have activities running just in case this is an 
>> >> issue for Yosemite as well. 
>> >> When I move to Yosemite I will probably attempt an upgrade but will then 
>> >> probably do a clean install  later if there are any performance issue.   
>> >> That  process appeared to work well then with all my apps etc being taken 
>> >> across from myTime Machine. 
>> >> 
>> >> David Griffith 
>> >> On 18 Oct 2014, at 00:32, Faisal  
>> >> > wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >>> yes, i did it but nothing happens 
>>  On 18 Oct 2014, at 08:22, Maria and Joe Chapman >   > wrote: 
>>  
>>  Hi.  have you tried repairing permissions and has this made any 
>>  difference? 
>>  thanks ? 
>>  Blessings! 
>>  maria and Joe chapman 
>>  bubbyg...@gmail.com  >  > 
>>  
>>  
>>  
>>  On 18 Oct 2014, at 12:28 pm, Dionipher Herrera >   > wrote: 
>>  
>> > yes me too, and i hate it. 
>> >> On 18 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Faisal  
>> >> > wrote: 
>> >> 
>> >> Hi all, 
>> >> so I took the plunge and installed Yosemite. I'm noticing a definite 
>> >> lag with voice over. Is anyone else noticing this as well? 
>> >> I'm using Alex 
>> >> Thanks 
>> >> 
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Re: iOS 8.1

[BobH.]

I'm interested to hear of anyone putting it on an iPad Mini Mk1, since that 
is what I have, and prefer to leave it be than risk trashing it with 
something it can't handle.

Thanks, R.
- Original Message - 
From: "Kevin Cussick" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 8:51 PM
Subject: Re: iOS 8.1


Hi,   I have downloaded it and have not played much but don't see anything 
different yet I have put it on My I pad I will let you know if anything 
jumps out at me.
> On 20 Oct 2014, at 20:28, Gabriele Battaglia 
>  wrote:
>
> Hi, I can't upgrade from here because I'm out of home, without a solid 
> connection.
> I would like to read some comments from you guys, about this new 8.1. I 
> saw that it is about 127 MB for iPhone 6Plus.
>
> By and happy download.
> Gabriel.
>
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RE: Strange problem with accessing my airport extreme

[wayne17a]

Hello and if all that fails try a reset using a paper clip or a pin 

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Kilburn
Sent: Monday, October 20, 2014 2:53 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Strange problem with accessing my airport extreme

Hi,

With the computer connected via your ethernet cable, turn off the WiFi
adaptor on your Mac.  Go back into Airport Utility and see if it's visible.
If not, check in the "Other BaseStations" menu to the right of the Networks
Scroll area and make sure that Ethernet is checked, then look again to
determine if the router shows up.

Did you have your AppleID in the Back To My Mac section of the BaseStation
pane?  If so, you could attempt to connect using the Other BaseStations menu
located just after the Networks Scroll area.  If it doesn't show up there,
then you probably didn't enter the AppleID info for that resource.

Later...

Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 12:37 PM, Joseph  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> I have the connection through ethernet cable running and I can also
connect Wi-Fi. I just cant get into configurations. When I put in the base
station password, nothing at all takes place other than it saying that it's
reading 10.0.1.1 and that's all she wrote.
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 11:28 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Hmmm is right.  At that point, it should be the BaseStation password that
you need.  So, after going into Airport Utility, pressing cmd-shift-o,
entering the IP Address of the router and the BaseStation password,, it
rejects you?  I just tested it on one of the Extremes I have here at and it
opened as I outlined.  If you have the ability to connect with an ethernet
cable, give that a try as the direct connection should work for sure.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:45 AM, Joseph  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> Hello Tim,
>>> Here's the situation thus far.
>>> I used command shift o to log into the airport, it displayed 10.0.1.1
but it wouldn't take either my base station password or my wireless
password.
>>> Hummm!
>>> 
 On Oct 20, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
 
 Hi,
 
 It could have something to do with your network being hidden.  That
shouldn't matter, but it's a possibility.  For now, try connecting to it
manually.  When in Network, System Preferences, determine the IP address of
your Airport.  If it's not easily visible on the main page of your Network
pane, press on the Advanced button and then select the TCP/IP tab.  The
router's IP will be listed there.  It is usually 192.168.1.1 or 10.0.1.1.
When in Airport Utility,, press cmd-shift-o which allows you to access
Airports directly.  You'll likely need to enter your setup password as well.
If this lets you in, then good.  If not, I'll have to think harder.  In
either case, it sounds like a bug report to Apple is necessary.
 
 HTH.
 
 Later...
 
 Tim Kilburn
 Fort McMurray, AB Canada
 
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 10:03 AM, Joseph  wrote:
> 
> Hello Tim,
> When I go to system prefs and network, it has my hidden home network
listed as the active network.
> Do you perhaps have any suggestions?
> Thanks.
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:57 AM, Tim Kilburn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Airport Utility is working fine for me either when accessing from
within my network or from a totally external environment.  Not sure why
yours isn't working.  The usual situations when I've seen that sort of
behaviour is when you're not actually connected to the network that you
think you are.  For example, your Mac has grabbed signal from your
neighbour's WiFi, thus, your Internet works fine but seeing your Airport or
Airports is not available since you're on a different network.
>> 
>> Later...
>> 
>> Tim Kilburn
>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:12 AM, Joseph  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello list,
>>> For some reason, I'm no longer able to completely access my airport
extreme configurations. Last Thursday I updated the OS on my iMac and now
when I launch Airport, I see internet working normally but I am unable to
access configurations. Also the app says that it cant find any airport
configurations. Well, that's really strange, because I'm emailing this
message through my extreme and it appears to be working just fine. Both
ethernet and wirelessly. Just cant access and change configurations.
>>> I'm curious to know if anyone else is having this problem. You know,
in a few weeks I plan on purchasing a new time capsule. But if I won't even
be able to set it up, why spend the money?
>>> 
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Audio Messages on Yosemite

[Brandt Steenkamp]

Hi there folks,

I noticed that it is quite simple to send an Audio message from the messages 
app in Yosemite, but I have thus far not found any way to play received 
messages except for on either your phone, iPad or iPod, if you still have one 
of those.

If you know of a way to do this, please let me know?

Warm regards,

Brandt Steenkamp

Sent from my macbook pro

Contact me:

Mobile/iMessage/WatsApp: +27605259181

Email: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com

My ring to Skype:
California, United States
  +(1)760-5140161  
Extension 512
Cape Town, South Africa
   +(27)213-002317  
Extension 161
Johannesburg, South Africa
+(27)105-002316
Extension 170

Skype: Brandt.steenkamp007

SIP: 5500...@spokn.com

Twitter: brandtsteenkamp

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Re: Audio Messages on Yosemite

[Alex Hall]

One person suggested going to Finder and opening the downloads folder, where 
you should find the message. No, it's not at all convenient, but it might work 
for now.
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 5:27 PM, Brandt Steenkamp  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi there folks,
> 
> I noticed that it is quite simple to send an Audio message from the messages 
> app in Yosemite, but I have thus far not found any way to play received 
> messages except for on either your phone, iPad or iPod, if you still have one 
> of those.
> 
> If you know of a way to do this, please let me know?
> 
> Warm regards,
> 
> Brandt Steenkamp
> 
> Sent from my macbook pro
> 
> Contact me:
> 
> Mobile/iMessage/WatsApp: +27605259181
> 
> Email: brandt.steenk...@gmail.com 
> 
> My ring to Skype:
> California, United States
>   +(1)760-5140161  
> Extension 512
> Cape Town, South Africa
>+(27)213-002317  
> Extension 161
> Johannesburg, South Africa
> +(27)105-002316
> Extension 170
> 
> Skype: Brandt.steenkamp007
> 
> SIP: 5500...@spokn.com 
> 
> Twitter: brandtsteenkamp
> 
> 
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Have a great day,
Alex Hall
mehg...@icloud.com

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Why is my iPhone not syncing all of my songs in iTunes?

[Christine Grassman]

Hi, folks.  I have a MacBook Air running Mavericks and the latest iTunes. My 
iPhone has 502 songs showing while when I look at the Summary in iTunes it says 
505 songs, but the other three songs will not sync. They are checked in the My 
Music playlist. The last time I had a similar issue all I had to do was check 
"sync entire music library".  However, I am looking all over the scroll area 
and cannot find it. Where can I find it, and if there is something  else I 
should do to sync the chosen tracks I want, please let me know. I've got over 
900 songs in iCloud, but do not want everything, but the ones I want which are 
not being synced are checked. Thanks in advance.
Christine

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Re: voice commands on yosemite

[Jessica Moss]

Moutain Lion and above had a dictation feature, but that's the closest to voice 
command as they had built into it.
On Oct 19, 2014, at 6:11 PM, Juan Hernandez  wrote:

> I don't there have been siri like command structure in mac os x at anytime, 
> or lat least in the last 3-4 releases.  but I could be wrong.
> 
> Best,
>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:17 PM, Cheryl Homiak  wrote:
>> 
>> Isn't that the domain of speakable items or has that changed or been 
>> eliminated? As far as I know, issuing commands to your computer hasn't been 
>> a part of dictation but maybe I missed out on this.
>>   
>> -- 
>> Cheryl
>> 
>> I tried and tried to turn over a new leaf.
>> I got crumpled wads of tear-stained paper
>> thrown in the trash!
>> Then God gave me a new heart and life:
>> His joy for my despairing tears!
>> And now, every day:
>> "This I call to mind,
>> and therefore I have hope:
>> The steadfast love of the Lord
>> never ceases;
>> his mercies never come to an end;
>> they are new every morning;
>> great is your faithfulness."
>> (Lamentations 3:21-23 ESV)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 19, 2014, at 1:08 PM, Faisal  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Dictation is enabled for me but unless I'm in a edit field, I cannot ue it. 
>>> How can one make commands if they are not in a edit field? I didn't see 
>>> anything about voice commands in dictation either.
 On Oct 18, 2014, at 11:28 PM, Pamela Francis  
 wrote:
 
 Apple has so much broken this OS. I have no idea why they would think of 
 releasing it without having paid more attention to what they were doing.
 I wrote this to the accessibility email address, even though it may not be 
 totally their fault, I can't believe they don't have some input into what 
 goes into their new OS.
 
 Hello,
 I am extremely disappointed with the lack of attention paid to 
 accessibility in your latest OS10 release.
 You overhauled the look of your software, while not thinking of those of 
 us who have grown to trust you with our accessibility needs.
 I know many visually impaired beta testers, most under NDA with you per 
 each release of both desktop & IOS software.
 I realize we are a minority in the big picture of your customer base. 
 However, if one has paid money to participate in  your testers program & 
 is paid lipservice to what is reported, what good are the testers? Has the 
 quality control suffered because the upgrades are now free? 
 Aren't we as a disability community owed a description of what we can 
 expect in terms we understand? It looks pretty, but acts very much like 
 something from a crackerjack box.
 I can't get to my music in Itunes because the views I have become used to 
 have disappeared. There is no more sidebar.
 In spotlight search, which is supposed to search for references outside my 
 Mac, I hear either the words button or image in the search results.
 How is this useful to me or anyone who would try to use it with no vision?
 As I stated earlier, there are those who have been under NDA to attempt to 
 alert you of the issues before release. Those same people had enough 
 respect for their contracts to not divulge issues that may concern the 
 rest of us. However, in return we all got slapped in the face.
 There is a site that gathers bugs, along with other content. 
 In case you are interested go to www.applevis.com
 As has been shown, I doubt any of this will be taken to heart. 
 I can only hope.
 My next computer, if I need one will be a Windows machine. They are 
 cheaper, maybe a little buggy, yet I know what I am getting.
 Premium prices should reflect premium quality in every sense of the word.
 Pamela Francis
 
 Pam Francis
 
 On Oct 18, 2014, at 8:47 PM, Alex Hall  wrote:
 
 It's now called Dictation Commands, and is coupled with Dictation. Enable 
 it in accessibility preferences, and use it by pressing the same command 
 you'd use to start dictation (press that key once more to stop). The 
 problem is that VoiceOver is muted during all dictation, which now 
 includes issuing commands, so even if a command works, you get no spoken 
 feedback.
> On Oct 18, 2014, at 5:55 PM, Faisal  wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> did they completely do away with voice commands on Yosemite? My key 
> trigger no longer works and I couldn't find it in system preferences.
> Thanks
> 
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Re: yosemite and spotlight search

[Pamela Francis]

I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one having this issue. Jim, do you also
here something to the effect of either button or image? When I have
attempted to use spotlight in its current iteration, I get everything but
what I'm looking for. I have been raked over the coals on this list for
complaining to Apple for fear there are those who will lose their
accessibility. At this particular juncture in my opinion they lost an
integral part of what the OS was supposed to mean. I have enough vision to
be able to see the screen, yet it does no good to use my key commands to
get where I need to go. Apple is more concerned about aesthetics then they
are functionality with reference to how their current OS works. If we don't
ask questions, stand up for  what we need we will ultimately lose what we
have. Those who are  currently taking me to task now will be truly
whining.. The difference is, you know me, they don't.
Pam Francis .
On Oct 20, 2014 10:05 AM, "'Jim Fettgather' via MacVisionaries" <
macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote:

>   I have a quick question about the way that Spotlight is supposed to
> work in Yosemite.
>
> As far as I have been able to read, you should be able to get web results
> from Bing, using Spotlight.
>
> So, pressing Command Spacebar, which brings up the edit box, and then
> typing in a search term, using the down arrow key produces absolutely no
> results.
>
> Results are indeed displayed for documents and email, but I am hoping that
> there might be an easy way to get Bing results  displayed in Spotlight, if
> this is supposed to be the way that it works.
> Thanks.
>
>
>
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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Re: mail in 10.10

[Devin Prater]

Hi all. When I press enter on a thread, and delete the message within the 
thread, it does not read the next message. How can I fix, or do anything about, 
this?
> On Oct 20, 2014, at 3:10 PM, Kevin Cussick 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi,   I got the same in mavericks
> I don’t know why this is but I hit OK and just connect I think you can tell 
> mail the server is trusted anyway I have had this as well and I have had it 
> since updating as well. I am a new to mac so don’t have any helpful tips. 
> sorry.
>> On 20 Oct 2014, at 21:02, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I'm seeing this, too.  And I agree, it's kind of annoying, but not a huge 
>> deal.  Would be nice if there were a way to make it stop, though.
>> Cheers,
>> Donna
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 2:59 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi!
>>> One thing thats strange is that it asks me to control or check my 
>>> certificat for my smtp.
>>> I just press ok or connect but why doesn’t  this happen in mavericks.
>>> /A 
 20 okt 2014 kl. 08:50 skrev christopher hallsworth 
 :
 
 Hi all
 I am seeing some improvements in Mail under Yosemite especially when 
 setting up accounts. I couldn't get a manually configured one to work 
 properly under Mavericks at least when sending messages from that account; 
 this appears to have been resolved in Yosemite. Ok it asked me for the 
 password but after that the message was sent immediately. Early days but 
 looks promising.
> On 20 Oct 2014, at 07:44, M. Taylor  wrote:
> 
> Hello Devin,
> 
> While there are some definite changes as to the nuances of Apple Mail, 
> none of it's functionality, as I perceive it, has been lost in Yosemite.  
> 
> Conversely, if you didn't like Mail in Maverick, then you probably won't 
> like it in Yosemite, either.
> 
> In my opinion, Mail is one of the most powerful applications in OS X and 
> it continues to be my preferred mail client.
> 
> Mark 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Devin Prater
> Sent: Saturday, October 18, 2014 6:53 PM
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: mail in 10.10
> 
> Is mail any more usable in 10.10? Or will I have to keep using iOS and 
> thunderbird for that? 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Oct 18, 2014, at 5:16 PM, Anders Holmberg  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>> I have a small lagg i think.
>> Its a bit slow yes.
>> Though the Yosemite update is not as disappointing as the ios 8 was.
>> Not yet.
>> /A
>>> 18 okt 2014 kl. 04:28 skrev Dionipher Herrera :
>>> 
>>> yes me too, and i hate it.
 On 18 Oct 2014, at 01:32, Faisal  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 so I took the plunge and installed Yosemite. I’m noticing a definite 
 lag with voice over. Is anyone else noticing this as well?
 I’m using Alex
 Thanks
 
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Re: yosemite and spotlight search

[John Panarese]

   Actually, this was another feature that was focused on during the beta 
cycle.  Realistically, Spotlight is designed to give more functionality to 
simple searches.  It is not a matter of using the arrow keys any longer.  
Information is presented in table format based on the results.  Remember that 
you can use ways to phrase your search criterion to make Spotlight more 
effective.  If you depend on Spotlight, I highly recommend the Take Control of 
Spotlight for Finding Anything on Your Mac.
 

Take Care

John D. Panarese
Director
Mac for the Blind
Tel, (631) 724-4479
Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com

APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 Mountain 
Lion

AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE

MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT




> On Oct 20, 2014, at 6:42 PM, Pamela Francis  wrote:
> 
> I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one having this issue. Jim, do you also 
> here something to the effect of either button or image? When I have attempted 
> to use spotlight in its current iteration, I get everything but what I'm 
> looking for. I have been raked over the coals on this list for complaining to 
> Apple for fear there are those who will lose their accessibility. At this 
> particular juncture in my opinion they lost an integral part of what the OS 
> was supposed to mean. I have enough vision to be able to see the screen, yet 
> it does no good to use my key commands to get where I need to go. Apple is 
> more concerned about aesthetics then they are functionality with reference to 
> how their current OS works. If we don't ask questions, stand up for  what we 
> need we will ultimately lose what we have. Those who are  currently taking me 
> to task now will be truly whining.. The difference is, you know me, they 
> don't.
> Pam Francis .
> 
> On Oct 20, 2014 10:05 AM, "'Jim Fettgather' via MacVisionaries" 
>  wrote:
> I have a quick question about the way that Spotlight is supposed to work in 
> Yosemite.
>  
> As far as I have been able to read, you should be able to get web results 
> from Bing, using Spotlight.
>  
> So, pressing Command Spacebar, which brings up the edit box, and then typing 
> in a search term, using the down arrow key produces absolutely no results.
>  
> Results are indeed displayed for documents and email, but I am hoping that 
> there might be an easy way to get Bing results  displayed in Spotlight, if 
> this is supposed to be the way that it works.
> Thanks.
>  
>  
> 
> -- 
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> "MacVisionaries" group.
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starting a new conversation in messages

[Faisal]

Has anyone found a reliable way to initiate a new conversation in messages? I 
am trying to compose a new message to test out the sms forwarding feature with 
IOS 8.1 but I can’t even find a way to do that.

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Re: yosemite and spotlight search

[Mary Otten]

Has that "take control" book been updated for Yosemite?
Mary


Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 4:24 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
> 
>   Actually, this was another feature that was focused on during the beta 
> cycle.  Realistically, Spotlight is designed to give more functionality to 
> simple searches.  It is not a matter of using the arrow keys any longer.  
> Information is presented in table format based on the results.  Remember that 
> you can use ways to phrase your search criterion to make Spotlight more 
> effective.  If you depend on Spotlight, I highly recommend the Take Control 
> of Spotlight for Finding Anything on Your Mac.
> 
> 
> Take Care
> 
> John D. Panarese
> Director
> Mac for the Blind
> Tel, (631) 724-4479
> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
> 
> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 Mountain 
> Lion
> 
> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
> 
> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 6:42 PM, Pamela Francis  wrote:
>> 
>> I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one having this issue. Jim, do you also 
>> here something to the effect of either button or image? When I have 
>> attempted to use spotlight in its current iteration, I get everything but 
>> what I'm looking for. I have been raked over the coals on this list for 
>> complaining to Apple for fear there are those who will lose their 
>> accessibility. At this particular juncture in my opinion they lost an 
>> integral part of what the OS was supposed to mean. I have enough vision to 
>> be able to see the screen, yet it does no good to use my key commands to get 
>> where I need to go. Apple is more concerned about aesthetics then they are 
>> functionality with reference to how their current OS works. If we don't ask 
>> questions, stand up for  what we need we will ultimately lose what we have. 
>> Those who are  currently taking me to task now will be truly whining.. The 
>> difference is, you know me, they don't.
>> Pam Francis .
>> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014 10:05 AM, "'Jim Fettgather' via MacVisionaries" 
>>  wrote:
>> I have a quick question about the way that Spotlight is supposed to work in 
>> Yosemite.
>> 
>> As far as I have been able to read, you should be able to get web results 
>> from Bing, using Spotlight.
>> 
>> So, pressing Command Spacebar, which brings up the edit box, and then typing 
>> in a search term, using the down arrow key produces absolutely no results.
>> 
>> Results are indeed displayed for documents and email, but I am hoping that 
>> there might be an easy way to get Bing results  displayed in Spotlight, if 
>> this is supposed to be the way that it works.
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
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Copying the text from iBooks

[Mary Otten]

Is it possible under Yosemite to copy some text from an iBook? I am thinking 
about cookbooks in particular, where I might want to copy a recipe, pasted into 
an email message or a wordprocessing document, and save it.
Mary
Sent from my iPhone

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Re: yosemite and spotlight search

['Jim Fettgather' via MacVisionaries]

I did a bit of research on this issue of Spotlight search is in Yosemite, and 
one suggestion was made to delete a preferences file, Also to somehow reindex 
the spotlight search capabilities. I would have to do more research to find out 
about the details of either of these possible solutions. Thanks.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 20, 2014, at 5:42 PM, Pamela Francis  wrote:
> 
> I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one having this issue. Jim, do you also 
> here something to the effect of either button or image? When I have attempted 
> to use spotlight in its current iteration, I get everything but what I'm 
> looking for. I have been raked over the coals on this list for complaining to 
> Apple for fear there are those who will lose their accessibility. At this 
> particular juncture in my opinion they lost an integral part of what the OS 
> was supposed to mean. I have enough vision to be able to see the screen, yet 
> it does no good to use my key commands to get where I need to go. Apple is 
> more concerned about aesthetics then they are functionality with reference to 
> how their current OS works. If we don't ask questions, stand up for  what we 
> need we will ultimately lose what we have. Those who are  currently taking me 
> to task now will be truly whining.. The difference is, you know me, they 
> don't.
> Pam Francis .
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014 10:05 AM, "'Jim Fettgather' via MacVisionaries" 
>>  wrote:
>> I have a quick question about the way that Spotlight is supposed to work in 
>> Yosemite.
>>  
>> As far as I have been able to read, you should be able to get web results 
>> from Bing, using Spotlight.
>>  
>> So, pressing Command Spacebar, which brings up the edit box, and then typing 
>> in a search term, using the down arrow key produces absolutely no results.
>>  
>> Results are indeed displayed for documents and email, but I am hoping that 
>> there might be an easy way to get Bing results  displayed in Spotlight, if 
>> this is supposed to be the way that it works.
>> Thanks.
>>  
>>  
>> -- 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
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Re: yosemite and spotlight search

[Les Kriegler]

Hi Mary,

I believe the Yosemite book was updated, but I've gotten so much mail that I 
cannot be positive.  I did purchase the Yosemite book in a bundle of books, and 
I received notification of at least two updates being available.  I think 
Yosemite was one of them.

Les
On Oct 20, 2014, at 8:15 PM, Mary Otten  wrote:

> Has that "take control" book been updated for Yosemite?
> Mary
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 4:24 PM, John Panarese  wrote:
>> 
>>  Actually, this was another feature that was focused on during the beta 
>> cycle.  Realistically, Spotlight is designed to give more functionality to 
>> simple searches.  It is not a matter of using the arrow keys any longer.  
>> Information is presented in table format based on the results.  Remember 
>> that you can use ways to phrase your search criterion to make Spotlight more 
>> effective.  If you depend on Spotlight, I highly recommend the Take Control 
>> of Spotlight for Finding Anything on Your Mac.
>> 
>> 
>> Take Care
>> 
>> John D. Panarese
>> Director
>> Mac for the Blind
>> Tel, (631) 724-4479
>> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com
>> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com
>> 
>> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 Mountain 
>> Lion
>> 
>> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE
>> 
>> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014, at 6:42 PM, Pamela Francis  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one having this issue. Jim, do you also 
>>> here something to the effect of either button or image? When I have 
>>> attempted to use spotlight in its current iteration, I get everything but 
>>> what I'm looking for. I have been raked over the coals on this list for 
>>> complaining to Apple for fear there are those who will lose their 
>>> accessibility. At this particular juncture in my opinion they lost an 
>>> integral part of what the OS was supposed to mean. I have enough vision to 
>>> be able to see the screen, yet it does no good to use my key commands to 
>>> get where I need to go. Apple is more concerned about aesthetics then they 
>>> are functionality with reference to how their current OS works. If we don't 
>>> ask questions, stand up for  what we need we will ultimately lose what we 
>>> have. Those who are  currently taking me to task now will be truly 
>>> whining.. The difference is, you know me, they don't.
>>> Pam Francis .
>>> 
>>> On Oct 20, 2014 10:05 AM, "'Jim Fettgather' via MacVisionaries" 
>>>  wrote:
>>> I have a quick question about the way that Spotlight is supposed to work in 
>>> Yosemite.
>>> 
>>> As far as I have been able to read, you should be able to get web results 
>>> from Bing, using Spotlight.
>>> 
>>> So, pressing Command Spacebar, which brings up the edit box, and then 
>>> typing in a search term, using the down arrow key produces absolutely no 
>>> results.
>>> 
>>> Results are indeed displayed for documents and email, but I am hoping that 
>>> there might be an easy way to get Bing results  displayed in Spotlight, if 
>>> this is supposed to be the way that it works.
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> 
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>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You rec