Re: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[Amancio Hasty]

I would start by using a java gui tool to design the look and feel 
of the xmailer and allow the application to load java classes
or lets call them plug-ins. There is lots of stuff available 
for java including good design patterns and methodologies.

Once the overall design is completed then translate it to X and C++. 
There is at least one decent  C++ tookit which is free that I know of :


ftp://ftp.x.org:/contrib/libraries/Cvo.1.0.1a.README

Have Fun Guys

-- 

 Amancio Hasty
 ha...@rah.star-gate.com




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Re: More press

[Dirk GOUDERS]

 > There is a short but sweet[1] article on ZDNet today regarding FreeBSD:
 > 
 > http://www.zdnet.com/zdtv/screensavers/answerstips/story/0,3656,2324624,00.html

Hmm, can't find that sweet thing -- typo?

Dirk


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Re: 32+ signals and library versions

[Marcel Moolenaar]

Dmitrij Tejblum wrote:
> 
> > > It is other way around. I don't want half of FreeBSD binaries linked
> > > with libc.so.3 and half is linked with libc.so.4.
> >
> > Recompile. You have the sources.
> 
> ??? What recompile? Why do you think I have the sources - there is
> quite a few binary-only FreeBSD programs? Why should I waste my time by
> recompiling and reinstalling something? Why should I waste my time and
> network bandwidth by downloading every package twice - for -stable and
> for -current?

Because you can't live with having two actively used versions a library.
You have the problem; you also have the solution. I don't want the complete
history of development bundled in a library. That's my problem. Now tell me
how do I solve it?

> > > related example: one kernel support all binaries, why libc should be
> > > different?)
> >
> > The difference is that a library is a static object,
> 
> I can't parse the above line

s/static/passive/g

> > while a kernel
> > actively maintains that compatibility. There's code involved to do that.
> > Something a library can't handle for itself. And that's precisely why you
> > need versioning: to assist in maintaining compatibility.
> 
> You described the existing situation. You could notice that I suggest to
> change it.

Strange. You are the one that is also refering to rules and standards that
are in use now and you are using that to validate your point. Now you are
telling me that you actually are diverting from the rules and a proposing a
change? Why am I having this discussion?

> > > > Your suggestion has more impact than that. It violates POLA. In all 
> > > > case a
> > > > certain function is called `foo' except in the library where it resides,
> > > > where it is called `bar'.
> > > I didn't invent the idea. NetBSD do it for a long time.
> > I don't care who invented the idea. We're discussing this and we both have
> > our opinions on this matter. The fact that NetBSD uses it for some time
> > doesn't make it right.
> 
> My point is just that NetBSD give an experience, in particular w.r.t. POLA
> violations. You also ignored my refence to . I will
> expand: When you see call to inet_aton() in the source, your object file
> actually call __inet_aton(). This is quite similar to the thing I
> suggest. This is the case at least still 3.0-RELEASE. From this
> experience we can say that POLA violation here is very low.

The fact that it has been done, doesn't mean that it is a good thing. It
also doesn't validate to do it again (especially as a policy).

> OK, I failed to convince you. New attempt: I am switching to your
> original question.
> 
> > Since libc and libc_r have changed on the interface level, they
> > need a version bump. I assume that all others automaticly also need a
> > version bump then. Am I correct in this assumption?
> 
> Yes. You need to manually bump version of every other library,
> including those from ports. You also going to have some fun when the
> version of the "other library" need to be bumped by its internal
> vendor-specific reasons.

No, I was not correct in that assumption. Libraries that don't use the
changed datatype do not need a version bump.

> Look: suppose there is libfoo.so.15, that use, say, setjmp() for its
> internal purposes. If you didn't recompile the library, you cannot
> build new programs with it: the library will call setjmp() from
> libc.so.4, while it want to call setjmp() from libc.so.3.

Correct.

> If you recompile libfoo and
> didn't bump its version, old programs linked with libc.so.3 will break -
> libfoo will call setjmp() from libc.so.3 where it want to call setjmp()
> from libc.so.4. So, you have to bump the version number.

Also correct.

> You probably already understand above. So, what's the plan? Do you
> actually plan to bump the version of every library under the moon?

No.

> Or you will say - oh, if some programs borke, just recompile them?

Not if this was to happen on -stable.

> Or do
> something like linux when they switched from libc5 to libc6 - I believe
> they have had separate directories for libc5 and libc6 worlds?

libc5 and glibc2 coexist, yes.

Listen, you made a good point. It clearly shows where the problem is. The
"solutions" we have been discussing aren't the proper solutions.

The current situation doesn't handle the (complex) dependencies, because
there's no way you can "bind" a version of a library (say libfoo.so.15) to
a version of another library (libc.so.3). A version bump messes things up
if you're not careful. That's why we already minimize version bumps.

Having all versions of a library called the same has also its
disadvantages. First of all every incarnation of a function is present in a
library. In the long run this will unnecessary bloat the library. Every
incarnation has to be named differently. First incarnations are named as
published, new incarnations are not. Secondly, maintenance of the library
will be more cumbersome with every major change made. Si

Re: upgrade issue from 2.2.x -> 3.2

[Ruslan Ermilov]

On Thu, Sep 09, 1999 at 10:00:46PM -0700, Ben Jackson wrote:
> I just did that upgrade (been with freebsd since 1.1!) and everything
> seems pretty smooth.  I did a 2.2->3.1 upgrade on another machine so
> I'm probably glossing over some aout issues (mainly that you have to
> find them and move them into a separate directory).
> 
> One thing that confused me for several days and I just figured out:
> sysctl moved from /usr/sbin to /sbin.  I have /usr/sbin in my path first,
> so I was getting to old one.  It almost works, but not quite.  It only
> displays about 15 `kern.' variables and then quits.
> 
> Perhaps the upgrade option should at least warn of that possibility
> (maybe obvious, but somewhat unexpected) or even include a list of files
> that once existed in FreeBSD but no longer do (to facilitate removing
> them).  I'm thinking about digging out a 2.2.x install cd to build that
> list for myself.
> 
Just `make installworld DESTDIR=/fresh-install' and check it against
your /.


Cheers,
-- 
Ruslan Ermilov  Sysadmin and DBA of the
r...@ucb.crimea.ua  United Commercial Bank,
r...@freebsd.orgFreeBSD committer,
+380.652.247.647Simferopol, Ukraine

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Re: 32+ signals and library versions

[Marcel Moolenaar]

Richard Wackerbarth wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 09 Sep 1999, Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
> > Sheldon Hearn wrote:
> 
> > I'm more tempted to revert to the major/minor versioning. Every change
> > triggers a minor version bump, but only if the library is still backwards
> > compatible with minor version 0 and the same major version. Otherwise a
> > major version bump is required.
> 
> A change to the LPI deserves a version change. Changes which only 
> patch/correct
> the implementation do not require one.

If the libraries are different, give them different versions. It's a simple
rule.

> > This only works if the dynamic linker uses a slightly different approach
> > when linking:
> > Linking is performed in such a way that if a program is linked against
> > version x.y of libfoo, then every libfoo with version x.z and z>=y is a
> > valid candidate. If there're more than one candidate ...
> 
> Rather than force this on the loader, simply use links in the file system to
> point to the "current" one. That pushes the burden to the install Makefile
> where it is executed only once.

You are missing the point.

-- 
Marcel Moolenaarmailto:mar...@scc.nl
SCC Internetworking & Databases   http://www.scc.nl/
The FreeBSD projectmailto:mar...@freebsd.org


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Re: Superblock.

[Alex Le Heux]

Hi,

I once had a similar situation: I had wiped my disklabel.

I forgot what it was exactly what I did, but it was something along the
lines of this:

- boot fixit cdrom
- run a commandline like this:

hd /dev/rwdnnn | grep "hh hh hh" (where 'hh hh hh' is the superblock magic
number, I can't find it right now, but that's probably because it's still
before coffee for me)

- Let is run for a while. Until is has found all the filesystems. The magic
number will appear quite often, but there are fixed offsets for each
consecutive superblock, so you can filter out which ones are 'real' and
which ones are not.

- After this you can figure out where your filesystems start. This was
enough for me, as I had only wiped the disklabel. You'll have to do some
additional juggling to figure out the right partitiontable entries.

I realise this is all very vague, but it was a few years ago so my memory
is a bit hazy.

Good luck :)

Alex

On Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 01:46:18PM -0400, David Gilbert wrote:
> So... I lost my partition table.  I'm willing to spend a little time
> on this.  Is there a byte sequence that I might recognise in a
> superblock or at the start of a partition?  I know this isn't an easy
> task, but man 5 fs leads me to believe that I might find:
> 
>  #define FS_MAGIC0x011954   /* the fast filesystem magic number */
>  #define FS_OKAY 0x7c269d38 /* superblock checksum */
> 
> ... but I don't see those bytes.  Any hints?
> 
> I'm willing to post a description of a solution for the FAQ if I can
> find the filesystems.
> 
> Dave.
> 
> -- 
> 
> |David Gilbert, Velocet Communications.   | Two things can only be |
> |Mail:   dgilb...@velocet.net |  equal if and only if they |
> |http://www.velocet.net/~dgilbert |   are precisely opposite.  |
> =GLO
> 
> 
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> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message

-- 
++---+
|  SMTP:|  E-Gold: 101979   |
|  ICBM: N52 22.64'6 E4 51.54'1  |  PGP: 0x1d512a3f  |
++---+


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NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

Hello,

Currently I'm trying to determine a reasonable set of NetWare
utilities which should be included in the source tree. 

ncplib isn't just a NetWare file system. It also provides services
similar to original NetWare client from Novell. Below I'll put a short
description for each utility. If you think that one of them shouldn't be
included in the source tree please let me know.

mount_nwfs  - similar to mount_nfs
ncplogin- creates permanent connection to a NetWare server
  without an actual mount, 
ncplogout   - destroy permanent connection,
ncplist - displays various information about client itself
  and NetWare servers,
ncprint - allows to send job to NetWare printer,
ncpsend - sends message to NetWare user or server console,
ncplpd  - simple NetWare print server,
ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
ncpsvc  - remote control for a NetWare server,
ncpasswd- allows to change password for a NetWare user.

There also PAM module which allow to do authentication through
NetWare server. All utilities share same code which can be either linked
statically or dynamically via libncp.so.X library.

Next question is a 'where it will live ?' I think that userland
part should go in src/contrib/ncplib with appropriate makefiles in usr.bin
and usr.sbin. And kernel module can go into sys/contrib/[ncplib|nwfs].
This will help to keep sources in synch with original ncplib source tree.

I will appreciate all questions, suggestions and recommendations.

Thanks in advance.

--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/




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RE: NetWare client in -current

[Daniel O'Connor]

On 10-Sep-99 Boris Popov wrote:
>   mount_nwfs  - similar to mount_nfs
>   ncplogin- creates permanent connection to a NetWare server
> without an actual mount, 
>   ncplogout   - destroy permanent connection,
>   ncplist - displays various information about client itself
> and NetWare servers,
>   ncprint - allows to send job to NetWare printer,
>   ncpsend - sends message to NetWare user or server console,
>   ncplpd  - simple NetWare print server,
>   ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
>   ncpsvc  - remote control for a NetWare server,
>   ncpasswd- allows to change password for a NetWare user.

Is there any reason to not have it as a port?

The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be mount_nwfs
because building it without the kernel source could be a problem, but the rest
of it could be a port I think :)

---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum


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Description: PGP signature

Re: NetWare client in -current

[Ruslan Ermilov]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 06:29:57PM +0930, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> 
> On 10-Sep-99 Boris Popov wrote:
> >   mount_nwfs  - similar to mount_nfs
> >   ncplogin- creates permanent connection to a NetWare server
> > without an actual mount, 
> >   ncplogout   - destroy permanent connection,
> >   ncplist - displays various information about client itself
> > and NetWare servers,
> >   ncprint - allows to send job to NetWare printer,
> >   ncpsend - sends message to NetWare user or server console,
> >   ncplpd  - simple NetWare print server,
> >   ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
> >   ncpsvc  - remote control for a NetWare server,
> >   ncpasswd- allows to change password for a NetWare user.
> 
> Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> 
IMHO, only the basic IPX/SPX functionality should be included into the
source tree.  Anything else could be available as ports/net/nw-utils.

-- 
Ruslan Ermilov  Sysadmin and DBA of the
r...@ucb.crimea.ua  United Commercial Bank,
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+380.652.247.647Simferopol, Ukraine

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32+ signals: new patches

[Marcel Moolenaar]

Hi,

New patches can be found on http://www.FreeBSD.org/~marcel/signal/

I'm currently running my system with the complete set of patches, including
world. After solving how to do the integration and after creating the
proper patches for alpha systems, this should be ready for inclusion. So,
if you got something to say, say it now.

-- 
Marcel Moolenaarmailto:mar...@scc.nl
SCC Internetworking & Databases   http://www.scc.nl/
The FreeBSD projectmailto:mar...@freebsd.org


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RE: NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:

> Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> 
> The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be mount_nwfs
> because building it without the kernel source could be a problem, but the rest
> of it could be a port I think :)

Yes, that's acceptable. But mount_nwfs require libncp.so and this 
means that ncp library sources will be also required. So KLD, mount_nwfs
and libncp should go into source tree and other utilities can be a port.

Other thoughts ?

--
Boris Popov
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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote:

> > Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> > 
> IMHO, only the basic IPX/SPX functionality should be included into the
> source tree.  Anything else could be available as ports/net/nw-utils.

An IPX/SPX stack is already in the tree and past year made it more
or less functional.

--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Ruslan Ermilov]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:58:52PM +0700, Boris Popov wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote:
> 
> > > Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> > > 
> > IMHO, only the basic IPX/SPX functionality should be included into the
> > source tree.  Anything else could be available as ports/net/nw-utils.
> 
>   An IPX/SPX stack is already in the tree and past year made it more
> or less functional.
> 
Read: I fully agree with Daniel.

Forgive me my ignorance, but I'd like a quick response: what about multiple
ethernet frames for IPX?  Is it supported in -current?  In -stable?


Thanks,
-- 
Ruslan Ermilov  Sysadmin and DBA of the
r...@ucb.crimea.ua  United Commercial Bank,
r...@freebsd.orgFreeBSD committer,
+380.652.247.647Simferopol, Ukraine

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Re: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[Vince Vielhaber]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Lutz Albers wrote:

> --On Freitag, 10. September 1999, 10:56 +0930 Daniel O'Connor
>  wrote:
> 
> > 
> > On 09-Sep-99 Nate Williams wrote:
> >>  VM doesn't do HTML/MIME very well, although I understand in later
> >>  versions of XEmacs they've incorporated some packages that handle things
> >>  better.  (I'm still using XEmacs 19.16, from the dark ages...)
> > 
> > Does it do IMAP? I have only seen *1* emailer which does IMAP properly
> > (xfmail) all the others either don't support it at all, or treat IMAP
> > like POP (ie just fetch mail from INBOX).
> 
> It claims to do IMAP4, but it just fetches all messages from the server
> (and by default deleting it from the server). There are very few good IMAP4
> clients out there :-(

xfmail?  Doesn't do that here and I use it daily for all of my internal
stuff.

Vince.
-- 
==
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: v...@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
   # includeTEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com
   Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com
==





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Endless loop in libpcap 2.2.x/3.x/-current

[Reinier Bezuidenhout]

Hi ...

We are running a system where we use the libpcap to capture
packets from an ethernet device.  We've been observing a problem where
the monitor program goes into an endless loop and spins for ever.

I've compiled the program with debugging on and observed that the
call-back function is called repeatedly from the libpcap library.

I examined the library and ended up in the pcap_read function in 
pcap-bpf.c

The code follows
snip - snip - snip

round line 110 in 2.2.x  and in -current

--

#define bhp ((struct bpf_hdr *)bp)
ep = bp + cc;
while (bp < ep) {
register int caplen, hdrlen;
caplen = bhp->bh_caplen;
hdrlen = bhp->bh_hdrlen;
/*
 * XXX A bpf_hdr matches a pcap_pkthdr.
 */
(*callback)(user, (struct pcap_pkthdr*)bp, bp + hdrlen);
bp += BPF_WORDALIGN(caplen + hdrlen);
if (++n >= cnt && cnt > 0) {
p->bp = bp; 
p->cc = ep - bp;
return (n);
}
}
#undef bhp
p->cc = 0;
return (n);

--

In our case (from the debug info obtained from our program, I can see that
bhp->bh_caplen and bhp->bh_hdrlen are both zero (0).

(gdb) p *(struct bpf_hdr *)pkt
$11 = {bh_tstamp = {tv_sec = 16652, tv_usec = 0}, bh_caplen = 0, 
  bh_datalen = 33555200, bh_hdrlen = 0}

pkt is bp received back from libpcap.

cnt is -1 when we installed the callback function.

As can be seen ... caplen and hdrlen is then set to 0. bp is smaller
than ep because cc >0 (data was read)

It enters the while loop, set caplen, hdrlen to 0, calls the callback
function.  libpcap then tries to increment bp with the BPF_WORDALIGN
macro.
From bpf.h
#define BPF_ALIGNMENT sizeof(long)
#define BPF_WORDALIGN(x) (((x)+(BPF_ALIGNMENT-1))&~(BPF_ALIGNMENT-1))

This concludes to 
(gdb) p (((0)+(sizeof(long)-1))&~(sizeof(long)-1))
$12 = 0

so bp is NOT incremented and the whole process is repeated and here it
gets stuck in the loop.

I attached a possible fix for this, please review, edit as necessar and
commit :)

The patch is to -current file, put should apply to most other versions
too.

Thankyou

Reinier
Index: pcap-bpf.c
===
RCS file: /home/freebsd-cvs/src/contrib/libpcap/pcap-bpf.c,v
retrieving revision 1.1.1.3
diff -c -r1.1.1.3 pcap-bpf.c
*** pcap-bpf.c  1998/09/15 19:28:05 1.1.1.3
--- pcap-bpf.c  1999/09/10 10:11:49
***
*** 117,122 
--- 117,130 
 * XXX A bpf_hdr matches a pcap_pkthdr.
 */
(*callback)(user, (struct pcap_pkthdr*)bp, bp + hdrlen);
+   /* 
+* If we can't increment bp, get out of the while 
+* We've atleast called the callback with the data 
+* we have at out disposal - NB : it might be garbage
+*/
+   if (!BPF_WORDALIGN(caplen + hdrlen)) {
+   break;
+   }
bp += BPF_WORDALIGN(caplen + hdrlen);
if (++n >= cnt && cnt > 0) {
p->bp = bp;

Re: NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote:

> > An IPX/SPX stack is already in the tree and past year made it more
> > or less functional.
> > 
> Read: I fully agree with Daniel.

Daniel also left mount_nwfs :)
> 
> Forgive me my ignorance, but I'd like a quick response: what about multiple
> ethernet frames for IPX?  Is it supported in -current?  In -stable?

There is an if_ef driver which supports all four ethernet frames
for IPX protocol and can be easily adapted for others (see
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/ipxen.html for details).  It requires two simple
patches to sys/net/if.c file and work on both -current and -stable.

--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Ruslan Ermilov]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:24:00PM +0700, Boris Popov wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote:
> 
> > >   An IPX/SPX stack is already in the tree and past year made it more
> > > or less functional.
> > > 
> > Read: I fully agree with Daniel.
> 
>   Daniel also left mount_nwfs :)
> 
All kernel-related staff (protocol, file-system support and required libraries)
should be available in the tree.  Everything else as a port(s).

> > Forgive me my ignorance, but I'd like a quick response: what about multiple
> > ethernet frames for IPX?  Is it supported in -current?  In -stable?
> 
>   There is an if_ef driver which supports all four ethernet frames
> for IPX protocol and can be easily adapted for others (see
> http://www.butya.kz/~bp/ipxen.html for details).  It requires two simple
> patches to sys/net/if.c file and work on both -current and -stable.
> 
That's really cool, good job!


-- 
Ruslan Ermilov  Sysadmin and DBA of the
r...@ucb.crimea.ua  United Commercial Bank,
r...@freebsd.orgFreeBSD committer,
+380.652.247.647Simferopol, Ukraine

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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Peter Wemm]

Boris Popov wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> 
> > Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> > 
> > The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be mount_n
wfs
> > because building it without the kernel source could be a problem, but the r
est
> > of it could be a port I think :)
> 
>   Yes, that's acceptable. But mount_nwfs require libncp.so and this 
> means that ncp library sources will be also required. So KLD, mount_nwfs
> and libncp should go into source tree and other utilities can be a port.
> 
>   Other thoughts ?

I'm really not sure I see the value in splitting it up like that.. Are
things like ncplogin required to support mount_nwfs?  Personally, I think
it might be better to take the whole lot and later on (nearer 4.0 time)
decide if it's worth splitting the ncp* off to a port if it's worth doing.
Otherwise version skew is going to be a hassle while it's under
development.

Cheers,
-Peter




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Re: 32+ signals and library versions

[Dmitrij Tejblum]

Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
> You have the problem; you also have the solution. I don't want the complete
> history of development bundled in a library. That's my problem. Now tell me
> how do I solve it?

Well, yes, this is a problem, and I cannot offer a solution. I only 
will say the following only as a consolation: you are already having 
the complete history of development in the kernel, so you have this 
problem anyway, admittely of a different size. Then, every time you say 
"recompile!", you partially defeat the purpose of the compatibility in
the kernel - you are forcing the people to quickly get rid of most old 
binaries anyway.

> > You described the existing situation. You could notice that I suggest to
> > change it.
> 
> Strange. You are the one that is also refering to rules and standards that
> are in use now and you are using that to validate your point. Now you are
> telling me that you actually are diverting from the rules and a proposing a
> change? Why am I having this discussion?

FreeBSD 4.0 currently have a nice feature - libc compatibility with 
FreeBSD 3.x. That is, I can link a program build on 3.x with the libc 
build from src/lib/libc on -current, either dynamically or statically.
I also can do it in other way around. I _use_ this feature every 
day. (Note: this feature is traditional. You was mostly able to do the 
same with 2.2.x and 3.0 (if you stuck with aout) - the major version number 
was not bumped in 3.0. You actually could do the same with 2.1 and 2.2 
- the incompatibility between libc.so.2.2 and libc.so.3.0 was mostly 
imaginary, and people used to symlink libc.so.2.2 to libc.so.3.0 and 
most program worked.)

Now, you are going to break the feature. What do you offer in return? 
32+ signals. I am probably not going to use the new feature. You hardly
will find a lot of people who desperately need it: most people don't care
at all, most of other would need to deal with 3.x with only 32 signals
anyway. OTOH, the compatibility feature will be more important for quite
a few people when 4.0-BETA and 4.0-RELEASE will be released. So, I don't
think it is a reasonable tradeoff.

Thus, I object. Please don't break the compatibility. Perhaps, restrict 
it to kernel internals and the linux emulator, if you need it for linux 
emulation.

The solution I suggest, of course, will partially break the compatibility
feature anyway. But only in a relative small part. This may be a 
reasonable tradeoff.

If you just don't want to implement the thing I suggest - OK. I am 
willing to do it myself (but "not today").

[perhaps, I will answer the rest of your mail later]

Dima




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Re: 32+ signals and library versions

[Marcel Moolenaar]

Dmitrij Tejblum wrote:

> FreeBSD 4.0 currently have a nice feature - libc compatibility with
> FreeBSD 3.x. That is, I can link a program build on 3.x with the libc
> build from src/lib/libc on -current, either dynamically or statically.
> I also can do it in other way around. I _use_ this feature every
> day. (Note: this feature is traditional. You was mostly able to do the
> same with 2.2.x and 3.0 (if you stuck with aout) - the major version number
> was not bumped in 3.0. You actually could do the same with 2.1 and 2.2
> - the incompatibility between libc.so.2.2 and libc.so.3.0 was mostly
> imaginary, and people used to symlink libc.so.2.2 to libc.so.3.0 and
> most program worked.)

You can compile programs on -stable and let them run on -current. This
holds for both staticly and dynamicly linked binaries. This is what
backwards compatibility is all about. Compiling on -current and running on
-stable can give you problems.

> Now, you are going to break the feature. What do you offer in return?

It's not a feature. It happens to be that way sometimes in the chain of
events.

> 32+ signals. I am probably not going to use the new feature. You hardly
> will find a lot of people who desperately need it: most people don't care
> at all, most of other would need to deal with 3.x with only 32 signals
> anyway. OTOH, the compatibility feature will be more important for quite
> a few people when 4.0-BETA and 4.0-RELEASE will be released. So, I don't
> think it is a reasonable tradeoff.

FUD. I don't see anyone else complaining. OTOH, I do receive implicit and
explicit support in changing sigset_t.

> Thus, I object. Please don't break the compatibility. Perhaps, restrict
> it to kernel internals and the linux emulator, if you need it for linux
> emulation.

I now understand your point of view. It doesn't really have anything to do
with whether or not we should have a version bump. Your arguments are
simply rooted in your way of programming and/or compiling and the (false)
assumption that you can depend on libc being interchangable across
different versions of FreeBSD.

> The solution I suggest, of course, will partially break the compatibility
> feature anyway. But only in a relative small part. This may be a
> reasonable tradeoff.

I don't see how your solution can maintain a higher degree of compatibility
then a version dump. In both cases you can run -stable binaries on -current
but not the other way around.

> [perhaps, I will answer the rest of your mail later]

I do hope so. I think that adding functions to hide datatype changes have
more drawbacks then version bumps, but I may be mistaken. Nonetheless, it's
an important issue.

-- 
Marcel Moolenaarmailto:mar...@scc.nl
SCC Internetworking & Databases   http://www.scc.nl/
The FreeBSD projectmailto:mar...@freebsd.org


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RE: CS Project

[Andrzej Bialecki]

On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:

> 
> On 09-Sep-99 Jason Young wrote:
> >  After some thought, I think the mount option idea is best. I hadn't
> >  thought of that before. One might want to apply different procfs
> >  security policies to different mounts of procfs, especially in a
> >  jail() situation. Good call.
> 
> Yeah, you'd have to make sure procfs doesn't mind being mounted multiple 
> times,
> something I'm not sure is true.

Also, don't forget about sysctl. kvm will defend itself with permissions
on /dev/kme, but sysctl is available for reading to anyone (see
src/release/picobsd/tinyware/sps to see what i mean).

Andrzej Bialecki

//   WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com)
// ---
// -- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org 
// --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ 



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Peter Wemm wrote:

> > Yes, that's acceptable. But mount_nwfs require libncp.so and this 
> > means that ncp library sources will be also required. So KLD, mount_nwfs
> > and libncp should go into source tree and other utilities can be a port.
> > 
> > Other thoughts ?
> 
> I'm really not sure I see the value in splitting it up like that.. Are
> things like ncplogin required to support mount_nwfs?  Personally, I think
> it might be better to take the whole lot and later on (nearer 4.0 time)
> decide if it's worth splitting the ncp* off to a port if it's worth doing.
> Otherwise version skew is going to be a hassle while it's under
> development.

Thats why I suggested an original scheme...

--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Marcel Moolenaar]

Boris Popov wrote:

> Currently I'm trying to determine a reasonable set of NetWare
> utilities which should be included in the source tree.

Is it possible to have utilities to query and modify NDS?

> ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,

Re: dropped connections (fwd)

[Max Khon]

hi, there

> ee does the same. The reason is that the program does not check for EOF
> on stdin, it continuously loops. It's a bug in the program. The thing
> that could have been changed is a signal from the shell that is no
> longer sent or so.
> 
> The problem is the program, not the OS.
> 
> It might be wortwhile to find the problem, solve and send the patch to
> the maintainer of the port and the original author.

the problem is in out ncurses (in -stable)
I've submitted a PR (http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=13679)

Please please please take a look at it as we (here at NSU)
would like to see fixed ncurses in 3.3-RELEASE
(I think ncurses 5 never would be MFC'ed to -stable?)

Thanks

/fjoe



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Re: Superblock.

[Robert Sexton]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 10:26:26AM +0200, Alex Le Heux wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I once had a similar situation: I had wiped my disklabel.



I know its easy to suggest somebody else do things, but turning this
into software might make for a very handy salvage tool, without a lot
of work for the author.  We seem to have folks popping up often
looking for little projects.  

I wonder how many folks have toasted drives in a recoverable way and
not bothered to ask for help

-- 
Robert Sexton - rob...@kudra.com, Cincinnati OH, USA
There's safety in numbers... Large prime numbers. - John Gilmore
Read the Newton FAQ! 


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RE: NetWare client in -current

[Matthew N. Dodd]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> On 10-Sep-99 Boris Popov wrote:
> >   mount_nwfs  - similar to mount_nfs
> >   ncplogin- creates permanent connection to a NetWare server
> > without an actual mount, 
> >   ncplogout   - destroy permanent connection,
> >   ncplist - displays various information about client itself
> > and NetWare servers,
> >   ncprint - allows to send job to NetWare printer,
> >   ncpsend - sends message to NetWare user or server console,
> >   ncplpd  - simple NetWare print server,
> >   ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
> >   ncpsvc  - remote control for a NetWare server,
> >   ncpasswd- allows to change password for a NetWare user.
> 
> Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> 
> The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be
> mount_nwfs because building it without the kernel source could be a
> problem, but the rest of it could be a port I think :)

Thats like suggesting we make the 'ipfw' command a port and leave the
kernel bits in the tree.  Since all this stuff depends on being in sync,
the only reasonable way to do this is to put it in the tree.

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| win...@jurai.net |   2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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Re: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[Jamie Bowden]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:

:Does it do IMAP? I have only seen *1* emailer which does IMAP properly (xfmail)
:all the others either don't support it at all, or treat IMAP like POP (ie just
:fetch mail from INBOX).

Pine does IMAP just fine.  I used to use it to read mail on box a, with
incoming accessd via box b, and storage on box c.  Now I just forward
everything to one account and procmail it all.

Jamie Bowden

-- 

If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up.  But boggle can go.
-Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle)

Re: NetWare client in -current

[Peter Wemm]

"Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> > On 10-Sep-99 Boris Popov wrote:
> > >   mount_nwfs  - similar to mount_nfs
> > >   ncplogin- creates permanent connection to a NetWare server
> > > without an actual mount, 
> > >   ncplogout   - destroy permanent connection,
> > >   ncplist - displays various information about client itself
> > > and NetWare servers,
> > >   ncprint - allows to send job to NetWare printer,
> > >   ncpsend - sends message to NetWare user or server console,
> > >   ncplpd  - simple NetWare print server,
> > >   ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
> > >   ncpsvc  - remote control for a NetWare server,
> > >   ncpasswd- allows to change password for a NetWare user.
> > 
> > Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> > 
> > The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be
> > mount_nwfs because building it without the kernel source could be a
> > problem, but the rest of it could be a port I think :)
> 
> Thats like suggesting we make the 'ipfw' command a port and leave the
> kernel bits in the tree.  Since all this stuff depends on being in sync,
> the only reasonable way to do this is to put it in the tree.

Or having mount_nfs in the base but moving nfsd/nfsiod/nfsstat to ports.
:-)

Cheers,
-Peter
--
Peter Wemm - pe...@freebsd.org; pe...@yahoo-inc.com; pe...@netplex.com.au



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Marcel Moolenaar wrote:

> > Currently I'm trying to determine a reasonable set of NetWare
> > utilities which should be included in the source tree.
> 
> Is it possible to have utilities to query and modify NDS?

I'm working on this (currently only queries). NDS library will be
separate package from ncplib.

> 
> > ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
> 
> From a user perspective, is salvaging not also important?

Yes it is important, but requires dialogue with user because
there can be more than one deleted file with same name. I'm trying to get
Novell to respond on my query about source code for 'filer' utility but
they keeps quiet at the moment.

--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Mike Smith]

> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> 
> > Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> > 
> > The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be 
> > mount_nwfs
> > because building it without the kernel source could be a problem, but the 
> > rest
> > of it could be a port I think :)
> 
>   Yes, that's acceptable. But mount_nwfs require libncp.so and this 
> means that ncp library sources will be also required. So KLD, mount_nwfs
> and libncp should go into source tree and other utilities can be a port.

You could still build the KLD as a port, actually.

-- 
\\  The mind's the standard   \\  Mike Smith
\\  of the man.   \\  msm...@freebsd.org
\\-- Joseph Merrick   \\  msm...@cdrom.com




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Re: Superblock.

[Julian Elischer]

At least one person has already written this program...

THeey have mentionned this  in the hackers list so maybe a search of the
list may turn something up..
withing th last 2 years from memory.

Julian


On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Robert Sexton wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 10:26:26AM +0200, Alex Le Heux wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I once had a similar situation: I had wiped my disklabel.
> 
> 
> 
> I know its easy to suggest somebody else do things, but turning this
> into software might make for a very handy salvage tool, without a lot
> of work for the author.  We seem to have folks popping up often
> looking for little projects.  
> 
> I wonder how many folks have toasted drives in a recoverable way and
> not bothered to ask for help
> 
> -- 
> Robert Sexton - rob...@kudra.com, Cincinnati OH, USA
> There's safety in numbers... Large prime numbers. - John Gilmore
> Read the Newton FAQ! 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 



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Re: Superblock.

[Josef Karthauser]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:51:50AM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote:
> At least one person has already written this program...
> 
> THeey have mentionned this  in the hackers list so maybe a search of the
> list may turn something up..
> withing th last 2 years from memory.
> 
> Julian

It's on my TODO list, honest :)  I've got the code, and just need to 
finish the tool.

Joe
-- 
Josef KarthauserFreeBSD: How many times have you booted today?
Technical Manager   Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org)
Pavilion Internet plc.  [...@pavilion.net, j...@uk.freebsd.org, j...@tao.org.uk]


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Daniel O'Connor]

"Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
> > The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be
> > mount_nwfs because building it without the kernel source could be a
> > problem, but the rest of it could be a port I think :)
> Thats like suggesting we make the 'ipfw' command a port and leave the
> kernel bits in the tree.  Since all this stuff depends on being in sync,
> the only reasonable way to do this is to put it in the tree.

Why? What kernel code does this need?

---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Matthew N. Dodd]

On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> "Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
> > > The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be
> > > mount_nwfs because building it without the kernel source could be a
> > > problem, but the rest of it could be a port I think :)
> > Thats like suggesting we make the 'ipfw' command a port and leave the
> > kernel bits in the tree.  Since all this stuff depends on being in sync,
> > the only reasonable way to do this is to put it in the tree.
> 
> Why? What kernel code does this need?

The ncpfs kernel code for one.

We're talking about less than 500k of code here.

You want to take the anti-bloatist stance you'll have to do better than
that.  Try libreadline for starters.  :)

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| win...@jurai.net |   2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Daniel O'Connor]

"Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
> > Why? What kernel code does this need?
> The ncpfs kernel code for one.
> We're talking about less than 500k of code here.
> You want to take the anti-bloatist stance you'll have to do better than
> that.  Try libreadline for starters.  :)

Bah like I care enough to care ;)

If it has a fair amount of kernel code then its a good idea..
Also as you pointed out, it aids interoperability..

---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Parag Patel]

On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:08:40 +0930, "Daniel O'Connor" wrote:
>
>"Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
>> You want to take the anti-bloatist stance you'll have to do better than
>> that.  Try libreadline for starters.  :)
>
>Bah like I care enough to care ;)

Yow!  I had no idea it was so large!

I have an (as yet still incomplete) full-screen text-editor library I
wrote a long time ago - in C++ even - that supports (on a terminal using
termlib but not curses) full-screen editing, simultaneous "live"
multiple overlapping windows/views of buffers, full left/right up/down
scrolling, line-numbering, unlimited undo/redo including any buffer
marks, regular-expression searching, and arbitrary depth key-bindings.

It's less than half the size of libreadline.

I am so depressed.


-- Parag Patel


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Matthew N. Dodd]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Parag Patel wrote:
> I have an (as yet still incomplete) full-screen text-editor library I
> wrote a long time ago - in C++ even - that supports (on a terminal using
> termlib but not curses) full-screen editing, simultaneous "live"
> multiple overlapping windows/views of buffers, full left/right up/down
> scrolling, line-numbering, unlimited undo/redo including any buffer
> marks, regular-expression searching, and arbitrary depth key-bindings.
> 
> It's less than half the size of libreadline.
> 
> I am so depressed.

Clean it up and add perl bindings to it.  Thats something that perl sorely
misses.  Come to think of it, libedit could use perl bindings...  Hummm...

Kevin?  :)

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| win...@jurai.net |   2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Parag Patel]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:07:12 EDT, "Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
>
>Clean it up and add perl bindings to it.  Thats something that perl sorely
>misses.  Come to think of it, libedit could use perl bindings...  Hummm...

Gaah - another big line-editing library!  My editor's even smaller than
libedit!

   textdata bss dec hex filename
  601134352   0   64465fbd1 /usr/lib/libedit.so
 117406   140041464  132874   2070a /usr/lib/libreadline.so
  48843 6364492   53971d2d3 tst

I'll add my editing package to my things-to-clean-up list and make it
available when I next have some time.

I've never cared for perl tho'.  

Growing up programming on a KL-10, I still think the correct place for
line-editing is in the driver.  Hell - it's already doing basic
erase/kill line editing as it is.  Then you don't have to hack every
command-line app to get line-editing.


-- Parag Patel


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Re: Superblock.

[Warner Losh]

In message  Julian 
Elischer writes:
: At least one person has already written this program...

I wrote one, but didn't post it.  Someone else wrote one and did post
it.  It really is bog simple to get a good first guess.  Harder to get
it perfect.
Message-ID: <376e42bd.117b3...@pobox.com>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:48:45 +
From: Niall Smart 

Warner


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Matthew Hunt]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 02:07:12PM -0400, Matthew N. Dodd wrote:

> Clean it up and add perl bindings to it.  Thats something that perl sorely
> misses.  Come to think of it, libedit could use perl bindings...  Hummm...

/usr/ports/devel/p5-ReadLine-Gnu

Also /usr/ports/devel/p5-ReadLine-Perl, which is pure Perl, instead of
using an external library.

If you say "use Term::ReadLine", Perl will use either of those if
available, or use a useless dummy version that ships with Perl otherwise.

Bindings for libedit which are compatible with these would be cool.

-- 
Matthew Hunt  * UNIX is a lever for the
http://www.pobox.com/~mph/   * intellect. -J.R. Mashey


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Warner Losh]

In message <37d93d65.627a...@dons.net.au> "Daniel O'Connor" writes:
: > Thats like suggesting we make the 'ipfw' command a port and leave the
: > kernel bits in the tree.  Since all this stuff depends on being in sync,
: > the only reasonable way to do this is to put it in the tree.
: 
: Why? What kernel code does this need?

The IPFILTER kernel option.  ipfw just builds the IPFILTER kernel tables.

Warner


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Re: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[Daniel J. O'Connor]

On 10-Sep-99 Jamie Bowden wrote:
> :fetch mail from INBOX).
>  Pine does IMAP just fine.  I used to use it to read mail on box a, with
>  incoming accessd via box b, and storage on box c.  Now I just forward
>  everything to one account and procmail it all.

Umm.. welll I'd like to know to enable sub folder support in it then..
Haveing multiple accounts on different machines would be nice too (then it
could do what xfmail can)

---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum




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Re: 3.2-STABLE SMP system not SMP'ing

[Ben Rosengart]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, David Scheidt wrote:

> It looks like something ate your attachments.  Try setting all the values
> that mtable reports on.


I think I just forgot them.


I uncommented 

options NCPU=2  # number of CPUs 
options NBUS=4  # number of busses
options NAPIC=1 # number of IO APICs
options NINTR=24# number of INTs 

and now the SMP works!  Thank you.

I was under the impression that these options represented defaults, and
that the other two were the only ones that had to be uncommented for
SMP.  Any chance that LINT or GENERIC could get some more informative
comments on this?  I'd offer diffs, but I don't know whether all six
options are necessary, or some subset.  I've cc'd this to hackers for
comments on this question.

--
 Ben Rosengart

UNIX Systems Engineer, Skunk Group
StarMedia Network, Inc.



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Re: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[Jamie Bowden]

On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, Daniel J. O'Connor wrote:

:
:On 10-Sep-99 Jamie Bowden wrote:
:> :fetch mail from INBOX).
:>  Pine does IMAP just fine.  I used to use it to read mail on box a, with
:>  incoming accessd via box b, and storage on box c.  Now I just forward
:>  everything to one account and procmail it all.
:
:Umm.. welll I'd like to know to enable sub folder support in it then..
:Haveing multiple accounts on different machines would be nice too (then it
:could do what xfmail can)

In 'Incoming Folders' type 'a' and it will ask you for the server name to
add.

Jamie Bowden

-- 

If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up.  But boggle can go.
-Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle)



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Wall Street Journal on Open source OS (9/10/99)

[Sanjay Waghray]

Attached is an article from the Wall Street Journal Online Edition.

---

September 10, 1999 




   Beyond Linux, Free Systems
   Do Their Bit to Build Web

   By LEE GOMES 
   Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

   Here's a little-known fact about the world's busiest Web
   site: It runs on a piece of free software. And it isn't the
   free operating system called Linux.

   To serve nearly 80 million people each month, Yahoo!
   Inc. operates about 1,000 computers that run on
   FreeBSD, a program distributed without charge over the
   Internet. FreeBSD is the most popular in a trio of free
   operating systems -- all historically linked to the
   University of California at Berkeley -- that are quietly
   playing a major role in the evolution of the Internet.

   Among operating systems, the
   internal engines that run
   computers, Linux has stolen the
   spotlight lately, as supporters
   hope it will eventually challenge
   the dominance of Microsoft
   Corp.'s Windows. The initial
   public offering of Red Hat Inc., the Linux software
   vendor, was one of the hottest deals on Wall Street this
   summer.

   But the role of FreeBSD and its cousins shows how free
   programs keep changing the software world and creating
   headaches for big established players. Sun Microsystems
   Inc., a leader in managing big Web sites, is carefully
   watching the growth of Linux and other free programs.
   And Microsoft faces a particularly significant challenge,
   since the Redmond, Wash., company wants its
   forthcoming Windows 2000 to dominate the "dot-com"
   world where the freebies are strong.

   "With Linux capturing the public imagination, the BSDs
   have gotten lost in the noise," said International Data
   Corp. analyst Dan Kusnetzky. "But they are very
   sophisticated technologies that do a lot of work in the
   world, even if people don't know about them."

   The BSD programs and Linux actually share a common
   lineage, a collective development process and a
   rambunctious cast of characters.

   The free programs are all variants of the venerable Unix
   system invented by AT&T Corp. And they aren't just
   running Yahoo. While Microsoft almost never talks
   about it, its own Hotmail free e-mail service runs not on
   its flagship Windows NT but on FreeBSD.

   In fact, one recent survey showed that BSD accounted
   for nearly 15% of all server machines connected to the
   Internet. Linux leads the pack with 31%,and is the only
   major operating system making any gains. Windows had
   24%.

   The Linux saga is already
   the stuff of modern legend.
   In 1991, Linus Torvalds, a
   21-year-old student in
   Helsinki, began writing an
   operating system
   essentially from scratch so
   he could have something to
   use on his home computer.
   The programs FreeBSD,
   NetBSD and OpenBSD, by
   contrast, are the
   descendants of code
   written in the late 1970s
   and early 1980s at UC
   Berkeley.

   Factional battles and online fusillades between and
   among the various BSDs and Linux are common.
   OpenBSD was started in 1995 by Theo de Raadt, a
   mountain biking 31-year-old Canadian after being kicked
   out of the NetBSD movement.

   'Open Source'

   BSD buffs like to think of themselves as a slightly more
   grown-up version of the "open source" movement, which
   distributes underlying programming instructions so users
   can study and modify software. While Mr. Torvalds has
   full control of Linux, for example, FreeBSD is overseen
   by a 15-person group called the "Core." What's more,
   the various BSDs say that their software, by virtue of its
   head start on Linux, is more mature and stable.

   "We didn't write most of this code, so we don't have a
   lot of ego involved in getting people to use it," says
   Jordan K. Hubbard, 36 years old, an evangelist for
   FreeBSD who many people credit for i

NAT speed - part 1.

[Ugen Antsilevitch]

Good day.
This is part one of what is (hopefully) will be my long and hard look in the
IP routing in FreeBSD as we know it. I must admit that i am out of shape on
many subjects and so much of this data may be wrong because of me doing
the Wrong Thing.
Anyway - these are the compressed results of day of testing.
Machine - Celeron 450MHZ (overclocked) , 128Mb ram, WD IDE drive,
 NE2000 compatible PCI 10Mbps card.
Test application: netpipe - do you know of anything better/more exact?
Test conditions: various packet sizes/amounts through the loopback.
Netowrk setup: with FIREWALL compiled in.
Here are some numbers (i am not going to give any long lists here, just a 
general idea).

a) Firewall set to pass everything. No other switching/routing.
1Kb data - 200Mb/s (thats Megabit just in case)
4Kb data - 400Mb/s
>4Kb data (up to 1Mb) - 400Mb/s

b) Firewall set to divert all traffic on lo0 to nat. Nat set in dynamic, does 
not translate
 anything obviously. (In this configuration any packet sent to nat will be 
matched against
 hash and immediately found a match. Since there is only one connection at 
a time,
 nat's hash has no chains of linked values and this therefore is as fast as 
it can work.)

1Kb data - 55Mb/s
4Kb data - 98Mb/s
>4Kb data - 100Mb/s

Quite consistently as you can see, moving packets betwin kernel and user world 
and
then back is 4 times slower then doing all the work in kernel.
Obviously the difference comes mostly from kernel/user switch, since the 
processing
of a packet is quite similar to kernel procedures and in fact should not be 
more then
a couple of firewall rules/routing table rules in time equality.

c) Simulating load on the machine. Well, i have no idea how to simulate a load 
of real
working Apache servers and in fact this will vary greately depending on 
multitude of
things. Loads siumlated therefore using make's of large applications (kernel, 
pine, tcsh etc).
nat is turned off. all ipfw rules flushed.

4Kb data sent.
0 makes - 400Mb/s
1 make - 310-320Mb/s
2 makes 220-240 Mb/s
3 makes 190-220 Mb/s

I am really not sure what to make of it, it is fairly linear which is expected, 
however i
am not sure how to translate it into real world's data (machine loaded with web 
applications,
mail etc). Looking at %% of CPU usage from top does not give a good idea of 
loads since
make is not a single process and numbers given for gcc etc running under it are 
quite low
and vary over time (1.5% - 3% as opposed to >40% for each netpipe process).

d) I did some tests on the actual Ethernet, however at home the best i have is 
this and another
machine and 10Mb crosslinked wire. The only thing i found (which is almost 
obvious without
testing) is that up to 4Kb maximal transfer rates are not reached. Around 4Kb 
transfer rate becomes
7Mb/s and stays there, raising top to 8Mb/s around 12Kb of data. 80% 
performance is quite
characteristic of the 10Mb/s ethernet but i have no bandwith to try nat etc 
since these
numbers are quite lower then speed if internal kernel switching.

Therefore if any of you are interested in deeper understanding of this whole 
thing and have
3 machines with 100Mb ethernet on them, i would appreciate access to those to 
do some more
thorough testing. Also if anyone is in NYC are and can loan me just one machine 
and a couple
of fast Ethernet cards - i can stage it right here at home.

I didn't look at the kernel code implementing fast switching so i don't know at 
this point if
loopback traffic ever passes that, however changing net.inet.ip.fastswitching 
to 1 did not
influence any of this data. What other options do we have to play with? MTU 
size?
What else? I am however looking for major numbers, not minor tweaking. Also if 
anyone
has a good idea about traffic switching speeds in "real" routers such as Cisco 
- i would
appreciate a look at that.

Thanx!
--Ugen




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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Kevin Doherty]

And thus spake Matthew N. Dodd, on Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 02:07:12PM -0400:
> Clean it up and add perl bindings to it.  Thats something that perl sorely
> misses.  Come to think of it, libedit could use perl bindings...  Hummm...
> 
> Kevin?  :)

Bleah, one thing at a time :)  Once I finish with my current project I'll
probably work on this if there's any interest, though.

--
Kevin Doherty, kdohe...@cosanostra.net
"Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign of a diseased mind."
   -- Rincewind (from _Eric_)


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Re: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[Daniel J. O'Connor]

On 10-Sep-99 Jamie Bowden wrote:
> :Umm.. welll I'd like to know to enable sub folder support in it then..
> :Haveing multiple accounts on different machines would be nice too (then it
> :could do what xfmail can)
>  In 'Incoming Folders' type 'a' and it will ask you for the server name to
>  add.

I don't have an 'Incoming Folders' if I press A in 'Folder List' I get a
request for a folder name not a server name..

I'm about to try Pine 4.10 (I have 4.05)

---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum




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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Kris Kennaway]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote:

> > Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> > 
> IMHO, only the basic IPX/SPX functionality should be included into the
> source tree.  Anything else could be available as ports/net/nw-utils.

I tend to agree. If we bring in all of this stuff (even though I
appreciate it's very useful) we should also bring in samba into the base
tree by symmetry.

Kris



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Re: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[Vince Vielhaber]

On 10-Sep-99 Daniel J. O'Connor wrote:
> 
> On 10-Sep-99 Jamie Bowden wrote:
>> :Umm.. welll I'd like to know to enable sub folder support in it then..
>> :Haveing multiple accounts on different machines would be nice too (then it
>> :could do what xfmail can)
>>  In 'Incoming Folders' type 'a' and it will ask you for the server name to
>>  add.
> 
> I don't have an 'Incoming Folders' if I press A in 'Folder List' I get a
> request for a folder name not a server name..
> 
> I'm about to try Pine 4.10 (I have 4.05)

You'll need to enable incoming folders in the setup from the main menu.

Vince.
-- 
==
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: v...@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null
   # includeTEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com
   Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com
==




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Re: Wall Street Journal on Open source OS (9/10/99)

[Peter Dufault]

> Attached is an article from the Wall Street Journal Online Edition.

-hackers may be the wrong place for this, but I'll follow up
and note that this article is the headline article in the second section
("Marketplace" or "Marketing", I forget) in today's regular old print
version of the WSJ.

Peter

-- 
Peter Dufault (dufa...@hda.com)   Realtime development, Machine control,
HD Associates, Inc.   Safety critical systems, Agency approval


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Re: More press

[Wes Peters]

Dirk GOUDERS wrote:
> 
>  > There is a short but sweet[1] article on ZDNet today regarding FreeBSD:
>  >
>  > 
> http://www.zdnet.com/zdtv/screensavers/answerstips/story/0,3656,2324624,00.html
> 
> Hmm, can't find that sweet thing -- typo?

Nope, it worked fine for me.  Given how short it is, this article really packs
a POSITIVE punch for FreeBSD.  Here's the text:

AlternaTip: FreeBSD
 
By Kate Botello, Host  
 
We introduce a new operating system this week for our Alternatip. 
New to us, that is. It's actually the oldest operating system still
in common use today: FreeBSD.

We spend a lot of time talking about Linux, of course. Linux is a
Unix clone created by Linus Torvalds in 1991 because he wanted to 
use Unix but didn't want to pay for it. He should have waited a
year or two.
   
FreeBSD is Unix, but because the Unix trademark is owned by Open
Systems, it can't be called Unix. You can make a pretty good case
that it's more Unix than the proprietary flavors of Unix that use
the name. FreeBSD is based on the Berkeley distribution of Unix,
but like Linux, it's completely free.
   
It's also the choice of many companies who prefer it to the commercial
flavors of Unix. Yahoo!, Infoseek, and Excite all run on FreeBSD. 
So do Xoom, US West, and the Internet Movie Database.  In fact,
anyone who wants to run true Unix should probably look at FreeBSD
first. 

FreeBSD is very like Linux in many ways. It runs all the standard
command shells, including BASH, and of course the X Window environment.
It can even run many Linux binaries, and nearly all Unix programs.
It differs from Linux in the volume of support and information out
there (but remember, all Unix books are directly applicable to
FreeBSD).
   
You might find it more difficult to find just the right driver for
your hardware, so check the compatibility lists carefully before
installing. But if you're looking for the true Unix experience,
FreeBSD is the closest you can get, at any price.


-- 
"Where am I, and what am I doing in this handbasket?"

Wes Peters Softweyr LLC
http://softweyr.com/   w...@softweyr.com


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Matthew N. Dodd]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> I tend to agree. If we bring in all of this stuff (even though I
> appreciate it's very useful) we should also bring in samba into the
> base tree by symmetry.

Thats the idea.  Once Boris gets a chance to finish cifsfs the plan is to
import it into the tree the same as the Netware client stuff.

You were maybe talking about Samba, which doesn't have any kernel
components or userland tools that are dependent on them.

An in-kernel SMB/CIFS server would be on the same order as the NFS server
support; something we would want to have in the tree so as to keep an eye
on it and lower maintainence cost for the developer.  (Not that this has
kept the NFS server code free of interesting incidents.)

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| win...@jurai.net |   2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Kris Kennaway]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote:

> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> > I tend to agree. If we bring in all of this stuff (even though I
> > appreciate it's very useful) we should also bring in samba into the
> > base tree by symmetry.
> 
> Thats the idea.  Once Boris gets a chance to finish cifsfs the plan is to
> import it into the tree the same as the Netware client stuff.

Okay. If that's the plan, then I don't have any objections.

I do hate the idea of having to reimplement samba because of the licensing
though - it already does quite a good job at SMB serving, it seems a waste
to duplicate the effort instead of just adding kernel support to the
existing code.

Kris



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Matthew N. Dodd]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Kris Kennaway wrote:
> > Thats the idea.  Once Boris gets a chance to finish cifsfs the plan is to
> > import it into the tree the same as the Netware client stuff.
> 
> Okay. If that's the plan, then I don't have any objections.
> 
> I do hate the idea of having to reimplement samba because of the licensing
> though - it already does quite a good job at SMB serving, it seems a waste
> to duplicate the effort instead of just adding kernel support to the
> existing code.

SAMBA implements an SMB/CIFS server.  We're talking about client support.

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| win...@jurai.net |   2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Kris Kennaway]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Matthew N. Dodd wrote:

> > Okay. If that's the plan, then I don't have any objections.
> > 
> > I do hate the idea of having to reimplement samba because of the licensing
> > though - it already does quite a good job at SMB serving, it seems a waste
> > to duplicate the effort instead of just adding kernel support to the
> > existing code.
> 
> SAMBA implements an SMB/CIFS server.  We're talking about client support.

It also does that (smbclient), though not as an FS, and there's
sharity-light for a (n)fs interface.

Kris



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RE: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[John Baldwin]

On 09-Sep-99 Andrew Reilly wrote:
> XFMail isn't acceptable, because I've got 130M of mbox mail
> boxes in a deep directory hierarchy, and I'd like to keep them
> that way.  The last time I looked at XFMail it insisted on an
> un-nested mh-directory style of mailbox.  Is it still the case?

It supports both mbox and mh mailboxes now.

---

John Baldwin  -- http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jbaldwin/
PGP Key: http://www.cslab.vt.edu/~jbaldwin/pgpkey.asc
"Power Users Use the Power to Serve!"  -  http://www.freebsd.org


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Re: damn ATX power supplies...

[Chuck Robey]

On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Mike Smith wrote:

> 
> > any idea on how to force ATX power supplies to restart after a power
> > outage without having someone press the 'power' button on the front
> > panel ? All the motherboards i can find now have their bios with two
> > options:
> > 
> > Disabled
> > no automatic restart on power failure
> 
> You _should_ be able to change this.
> 
> > none of them is satisfactory especially for picoBSD things such as
> > routers or firewalls where an UPS is overkill...
> 
> You can always hotwire the supply; go dig up a pinout for the ATX power 
> connector and you'll see that if you ground the power-on line the PSU 
> will come up...

It's not just a ground, the line that brings up the power is a momentary
switch, so a longish (about 1/2 second) pulse would do it.  That would
make it easier for you to set it up so you *could* turn it off if you
actually did want to.  Of course, if you did turn it off, and used this
pulse idea, the next power fluctuation would turn your PC back on ...
kinda inverted behavior!

> 
> -- 
> \\  The mind's the standard   \\  Mike Smith
> \\  of the man.   \\  msm...@freebsd.org
> \\-- Joseph Merrick   \\  msm...@cdrom.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to majord...@freebsd.org
> with "unsubscribe freebsd-hackers" in the body of the message
> 

---+---
Chuck Robey| Interests include any kind of voice or data 
chu...@mat.net | communications topic, C programming, Unix and
213 Lakeside Drive Apt T-1 | carpentry.  It's all in the design!
Greenbelt, MD 20770| picnic.mat.net: FreeBSD/i386
(301) 220-2114 | jaunt.mat.net : FreeBSD/Alpha
---+---



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Re: 32+ signals and library versions

[Marcel Moolenaar]

Richard Wackerbarth wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 09 Sep 1999, Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
> > Sheldon Hearn wrote:
> 
> > I'm more tempted to revert to the major/minor versioning. Every change
> > triggers a minor version bump, but only if the library is still backwards
> > compatible with minor version 0 and the same major version. Otherwise a
> > major version bump is required.
> 
> A change to the LPI deserves a version change. Changes which only patch/correct
> the implementation do not require one.

If the libraries are different, give them different versions. It's a simple
rule.

> > This only works if the dynamic linker uses a slightly different approach
> > when linking:
> > Linking is performed in such a way that if a program is linked against
> > version x.y of libfoo, then every libfoo with version x.z and z>=y is a
> > valid candidate. If there're more than one candidate ...
> 
> Rather than force this on the loader, simply use links in the file system to
> point to the "current" one. That pushes the burden to the install Makefile
> where it is executed only once.

You are missing the point.

-- 
Marcel Moolenaarmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SCC Internetworking & Databases   http://www.scc.nl/
The FreeBSD projectmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Superblock.

[Alex Le Heux]

Hi,

I once had a similar situation: I had wiped my disklabel.

I forgot what it was exactly what I did, but it was something along the
lines of this:

- boot fixit cdrom
- run a commandline like this:

hd /dev/rwdnnn | grep "hh hh hh" (where 'hh hh hh' is the superblock magic
number, I can't find it right now, but that's probably because it's still
before coffee for me)

- Let is run for a while. Until is has found all the filesystems. The magic
number will appear quite often, but there are fixed offsets for each
consecutive superblock, so you can filter out which ones are 'real' and
which ones are not.

- After this you can figure out where your filesystems start. This was
enough for me, as I had only wiped the disklabel. You'll have to do some
additional juggling to figure out the right partitiontable entries.

I realise this is all very vague, but it was a few years ago so my memory
is a bit hazy.

Good luck :)

Alex

On Wed, Sep 08, 1999 at 01:46:18PM -0400, David Gilbert wrote:
> So... I lost my partition table.  I'm willing to spend a little time
> on this.  Is there a byte sequence that I might recognise in a
> superblock or at the start of a partition?  I know this isn't an easy
> task, but man 5 fs leads me to believe that I might find:
> 
>  #define FS_MAGIC0x011954   /* the fast filesystem magic number */
>  #define FS_OKAY 0x7c269d38 /* superblock checksum */
> 
> ... but I don't see those bytes.  Any hints?
> 
> I'm willing to post a description of a solution for the FAQ if I can
> find the filesystems.
> 
> Dave.
> 
> -- 
> 
> |David Gilbert, Velocet Communications.   | Two things can only be |
> |Mail:   [EMAIL PROTECTED] |  equal if and only if they |
> |http://www.velocet.net/~dgilbert |   are precisely opposite.  |
> =GLO
> 
> 
> To Unsubscribe: send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-- 
++---+
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|  ICBM: N52 22.64'6 E4 51.54'1  |  PGP: 0x1d512a3f  |
++---+


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NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

Hello,

Currently I'm trying to determine a reasonable set of NetWare
utilities which should be included in the source tree. 

ncplib isn't just a NetWare file system. It also provides services
similar to original NetWare client from Novell. Below I'll put a short
description for each utility. If you think that one of them shouldn't be
included in the source tree please let me know.

mount_nwfs  - similar to mount_nfs
ncplogin- creates permanent connection to a NetWare server
  without an actual mount, 
ncplogout   - destroy permanent connection,
ncplist - displays various information about client itself
  and NetWare servers,
ncprint - allows to send job to NetWare printer,
ncpsend - sends message to NetWare user or server console,
ncplpd  - simple NetWare print server,
ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
ncpsvc  - remote control for a NetWare server,
ncpasswd- allows to change password for a NetWare user.

There also PAM module which allow to do authentication through
NetWare server. All utilities share same code which can be either linked
statically or dynamically via libncp.so.X library.

Next question is a 'where it will live ?' I think that userland
part should go in src/contrib/ncplib with appropriate makefiles in usr.bin
and usr.sbin. And kernel module can go into sys/contrib/[ncplib|nwfs].
This will help to keep sources in synch with original ncplib source tree.

I will appreciate all questions, suggestions and recommendations.

Thanks in advance.

--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/




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RE: NetWare client in -current

[Daniel O'Connor]

On 10-Sep-99 Boris Popov wrote:
>   mount_nwfs  - similar to mount_nfs
>   ncplogin- creates permanent connection to a NetWare server
> without an actual mount, 
>   ncplogout   - destroy permanent connection,
>   ncplist - displays various information about client itself
> and NetWare servers,
>   ncprint - allows to send job to NetWare printer,
>   ncpsend - sends message to NetWare user or server console,
>   ncplpd  - simple NetWare print server,
>   ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
>   ncpsvc  - remote control for a NetWare server,
>   ncpasswd- allows to change password for a NetWare user.

Is there any reason to not have it as a port?

The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be mount_nwfs
because building it without the kernel source could be a problem, but the rest
of it could be a port I think :)

---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum

 PGP signature

Re: NetWare client in -current

[Ruslan Ermilov]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 06:29:57PM +0930, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> 
> On 10-Sep-99 Boris Popov wrote:
> >   mount_nwfs  - similar to mount_nfs
> >   ncplogin- creates permanent connection to a NetWare server
> > without an actual mount, 
> >   ncplogout   - destroy permanent connection,
> >   ncplist - displays various information about client itself
> > and NetWare servers,
> >   ncprint - allows to send job to NetWare printer,
> >   ncpsend - sends message to NetWare user or server console,
> >   ncplpd  - simple NetWare print server,
> >   ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
> >   ncpsvc  - remote control for a NetWare server,
> >   ncpasswd- allows to change password for a NetWare user.
> 
> Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> 
IMHO, only the basic IPX/SPX functionality should be included into the
source tree.  Anything else could be available as ports/net/nw-utils.

-- 
Ruslan Ermilov  Sysadmin and DBA of the
[EMAIL PROTECTED]United Commercial Bank,
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32+ signals: new patches

[Marcel Moolenaar]

Hi,

New patches can be found on http://www.FreeBSD.org/~marcel/signal/

I'm currently running my system with the complete set of patches, including
world. After solving how to do the integration and after creating the
proper patches for alpha systems, this should be ready for inclusion. So,
if you got something to say, say it now.

-- 
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SCC Internetworking & Databases   http://www.scc.nl/
The FreeBSD projectmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:

> Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> 
> The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be mount_nwfs
> because building it without the kernel source could be a problem, but the rest
> of it could be a port I think :)

Yes, that's acceptable. But mount_nwfs require libncp.so and this 
means that ncp library sources will be also required. So KLD, mount_nwfs
and libncp should go into source tree and other utilities can be a port.

Other thoughts ?

--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote:

> > Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> > 
> IMHO, only the basic IPX/SPX functionality should be included into the
> source tree.  Anything else could be available as ports/net/nw-utils.

An IPX/SPX stack is already in the tree and past year made it more
or less functional.

--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Ruslan Ermilov]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 04:58:52PM +0700, Boris Popov wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote:
> 
> > > Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> > > 
> > IMHO, only the basic IPX/SPX functionality should be included into the
> > source tree.  Anything else could be available as ports/net/nw-utils.
> 
>   An IPX/SPX stack is already in the tree and past year made it more
> or less functional.
> 
Read: I fully agree with Daniel.

Forgive me my ignorance, but I'd like a quick response: what about multiple
ethernet frames for IPX?  Is it supported in -current?  In -stable?


Thanks,
-- 
Ruslan Ermilov  Sysadmin and DBA of the
[EMAIL PROTECTED]United Commercial Bank,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  FreeBSD committer,
+380.652.247.647Simferopol, Ukraine

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Re: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[Vince Vielhaber]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Lutz Albers wrote:

> --On Freitag, 10. September 1999, 10:56 +0930 Daniel O'Connor
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > 
> > On 09-Sep-99 Nate Williams wrote:
> >>  VM doesn't do HTML/MIME very well, although I understand in later
> >>  versions of XEmacs they've incorporated some packages that handle things
> >>  better.  (I'm still using XEmacs 19.16, from the dark ages...)
> > 
> > Does it do IMAP? I have only seen *1* emailer which does IMAP properly
> > (xfmail) all the others either don't support it at all, or treat IMAP
> > like POP (ie just fetch mail from INBOX).
> 
> It claims to do IMAP4, but it just fetches all messages from the server
> (and by default deleting it from the server). There are very few good IMAP4
> clients out there :-(

xfmail?  Doesn't do that here and I use it daily for all of my internal
stuff.

Vince.
-- 
==
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   flame-mail: /dev/null
   # includeTEAM-OS2
Online Campground Directoryhttp://www.camping-usa.com
   Online Giftshop Superstorehttp://www.cloudninegifts.com
==





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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote:

> > An IPX/SPX stack is already in the tree and past year made it more
> > or less functional.
> > 
> Read: I fully agree with Daniel.

Daniel also left mount_nwfs :)
> 
> Forgive me my ignorance, but I'd like a quick response: what about multiple
> ethernet frames for IPX?  Is it supported in -current?  In -stable?

There is an if_ef driver which supports all four ethernet frames
for IPX protocol and can be easily adapted for others (see
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/ipxen.html for details).  It requires two simple
patches to sys/net/if.c file and work on both -current and -stable.

--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Ruslan Ermilov]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 05:24:00PM +0700, Boris Popov wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Ruslan Ermilov wrote:
> 
> > >   An IPX/SPX stack is already in the tree and past year made it more
> > > or less functional.
> > > 
> > Read: I fully agree with Daniel.
> 
>   Daniel also left mount_nwfs :)
> 
All kernel-related staff (protocol, file-system support and required libraries)
should be available in the tree.  Everything else as a port(s).

> > Forgive me my ignorance, but I'd like a quick response: what about multiple
> > ethernet frames for IPX?  Is it supported in -current?  In -stable?
> 
>   There is an if_ef driver which supports all four ethernet frames
> for IPX protocol and can be easily adapted for others (see
> http://www.butya.kz/~bp/ipxen.html for details).  It requires two simple
> patches to sys/net/if.c file and work on both -current and -stable.
> 
That's really cool, good job!


-- 
Ruslan Ermilov  Sysadmin and DBA of the
[EMAIL PROTECTED]United Commercial Bank,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]  FreeBSD committer,
+380.652.247.647Simferopol, Ukraine

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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Peter Wemm]

Boris Popov wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> 
> > Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> > 
> > The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be mount_n
wfs
> > because building it without the kernel source could be a problem, but the r
est
> > of it could be a port I think :)
> 
>   Yes, that's acceptable. But mount_nwfs require libncp.so and this 
> means that ncp library sources will be also required. So KLD, mount_nwfs
> and libncp should go into source tree and other utilities can be a port.
> 
>   Other thoughts ?

I'm really not sure I see the value in splitting it up like that.. Are
things like ncplogin required to support mount_nwfs?  Personally, I think
it might be better to take the whole lot and later on (nearer 4.0 time)
decide if it's worth splitting the ncp* off to a port if it's worth doing.
Otherwise version skew is going to be a hassle while it's under
development.

Cheers,
-Peter




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Re: 32+ signals and library versions

[Dmitrij Tejblum]

Marcel Moolenaar wrote:
> You have the problem; you also have the solution. I don't want the complete
> history of development bundled in a library. That's my problem. Now tell me
> how do I solve it?

Well, yes, this is a problem, and I cannot offer a solution. I only 
will say the following only as a consolation: you are already having 
the complete history of development in the kernel, so you have this 
problem anyway, admittely of a different size. Then, every time you say 
"recompile!", you partially defeat the purpose of the compatibility in
the kernel - you are forcing the people to quickly get rid of most old 
binaries anyway.

> > You described the existing situation. You could notice that I suggest to
> > change it.
> 
> Strange. You are the one that is also refering to rules and standards that
> are in use now and you are using that to validate your point. Now you are
> telling me that you actually are diverting from the rules and a proposing a
> change? Why am I having this discussion?

FreeBSD 4.0 currently have a nice feature - libc compatibility with 
FreeBSD 3.x. That is, I can link a program build on 3.x with the libc 
build from src/lib/libc on -current, either dynamically or statically.
I also can do it in other way around. I _use_ this feature every 
day. (Note: this feature is traditional. You was mostly able to do the 
same with 2.2.x and 3.0 (if you stuck with aout) - the major version number 
was not bumped in 3.0. You actually could do the same with 2.1 and 2.2 
- the incompatibility between libc.so.2.2 and libc.so.3.0 was mostly 
imaginary, and people used to symlink libc.so.2.2 to libc.so.3.0 and 
most program worked.)

Now, you are going to break the feature. What do you offer in return? 
32+ signals. I am probably not going to use the new feature. You hardly
will find a lot of people who desperately need it: most people don't care
at all, most of other would need to deal with 3.x with only 32 signals
anyway. OTOH, the compatibility feature will be more important for quite
a few people when 4.0-BETA and 4.0-RELEASE will be released. So, I don't
think it is a reasonable tradeoff.

Thus, I object. Please don't break the compatibility. Perhaps, restrict 
it to kernel internals and the linux emulator, if you need it for linux 
emulation.

The solution I suggest, of course, will partially break the compatibility
feature anyway. But only in a relative small part. This may be a 
reasonable tradeoff.

If you just don't want to implement the thing I suggest - OK. I am 
willing to do it myself (but "not today").

[perhaps, I will answer the rest of your mail later]

Dima




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Re: 32+ signals and library versions

[Marcel Moolenaar]

Dmitrij Tejblum wrote:

> FreeBSD 4.0 currently have a nice feature - libc compatibility with
> FreeBSD 3.x. That is, I can link a program build on 3.x with the libc
> build from src/lib/libc on -current, either dynamically or statically.
> I also can do it in other way around. I _use_ this feature every
> day. (Note: this feature is traditional. You was mostly able to do the
> same with 2.2.x and 3.0 (if you stuck with aout) - the major version number
> was not bumped in 3.0. You actually could do the same with 2.1 and 2.2
> - the incompatibility between libc.so.2.2 and libc.so.3.0 was mostly
> imaginary, and people used to symlink libc.so.2.2 to libc.so.3.0 and
> most program worked.)

You can compile programs on -stable and let them run on -current. This
holds for both staticly and dynamicly linked binaries. This is what
backwards compatibility is all about. Compiling on -current and running on
-stable can give you problems.

> Now, you are going to break the feature. What do you offer in return?

It's not a feature. It happens to be that way sometimes in the chain of
events.

> 32+ signals. I am probably not going to use the new feature. You hardly
> will find a lot of people who desperately need it: most people don't care
> at all, most of other would need to deal with 3.x with only 32 signals
> anyway. OTOH, the compatibility feature will be more important for quite
> a few people when 4.0-BETA and 4.0-RELEASE will be released. So, I don't
> think it is a reasonable tradeoff.

FUD. I don't see anyone else complaining. OTOH, I do receive implicit and
explicit support in changing sigset_t.

> Thus, I object. Please don't break the compatibility. Perhaps, restrict
> it to kernel internals and the linux emulator, if you need it for linux
> emulation.

I now understand your point of view. It doesn't really have anything to do
with whether or not we should have a version bump. Your arguments are
simply rooted in your way of programming and/or compiling and the (false)
assumption that you can depend on libc being interchangable across
different versions of FreeBSD.

> The solution I suggest, of course, will partially break the compatibility
> feature anyway. But only in a relative small part. This may be a
> reasonable tradeoff.

I don't see how your solution can maintain a higher degree of compatibility
then a version dump. In both cases you can run -stable binaries on -current
but not the other way around.

> [perhaps, I will answer the rest of your mail later]

I do hope so. I think that adding functions to hide datatype changes have
more drawbacks then version bumps, but I may be mistaken. Nonetheless, it's
an important issue.

-- 
Marcel Moolenaarmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SCC Internetworking & Databases   http://www.scc.nl/
The FreeBSD projectmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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RE: CS Project

[Andrzej Bialecki]

On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:

> 
> On 09-Sep-99 Jason Young wrote:
> >  After some thought, I think the mount option idea is best. I hadn't
> >  thought of that before. One might want to apply different procfs
> >  security policies to different mounts of procfs, especially in a
> >  jail() situation. Good call.
> 
> Yeah, you'd have to make sure procfs doesn't mind being mounted multiple times,
> something I'm not sure is true.

Also, don't forget about sysctl. kvm will defend itself with permissions
on /dev/kme, but sysctl is available for reading to anyone (see
src/release/picobsd/tinyware/sps to see what i mean).

Andrzej Bialecki

//  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> WebGiro AB, Sweden (http://www.webgiro.com)
// ---
// -- FreeBSD: The Power to Serve. http://www.freebsd.org 
// --- Small & Embedded FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/~picobsd/ 



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Peter Wemm wrote:

> > Yes, that's acceptable. But mount_nwfs require libncp.so and this 
> > means that ncp library sources will be also required. So KLD, mount_nwfs
> > and libncp should go into source tree and other utilities can be a port.
> > 
> > Other thoughts ?
> 
> I'm really not sure I see the value in splitting it up like that.. Are
> things like ncplogin required to support mount_nwfs?  Personally, I think
> it might be better to take the whole lot and later on (nearer 4.0 time)
> decide if it's worth splitting the ncp* off to a port if it's worth doing.
> Otherwise version skew is going to be a hassle while it's under
> development.

Thats why I suggested an original scheme...

--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/



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Endless loop in libpcap 2.2.x/3.x/-current

[Reinier Bezuidenhout]

Hi ...

We are running a system where we use the libpcap to capture
packets from an ethernet device.  We've been observing a problem where
the monitor program goes into an endless loop and spins for ever.

I've compiled the program with debugging on and observed that the
call-back function is called repeatedly from the libpcap library.

I examined the library and ended up in the pcap_read function in 
pcap-bpf.c

The code follows
snip - snip - snip

round line 110 in 2.2.x  and in -current

--

#define bhp ((struct bpf_hdr *)bp)
ep = bp + cc;
while (bp < ep) {
register int caplen, hdrlen;
caplen = bhp->bh_caplen;
hdrlen = bhp->bh_hdrlen;
/*
 * XXX A bpf_hdr matches a pcap_pkthdr.
 */
(*callback)(user, (struct pcap_pkthdr*)bp, bp + hdrlen);
bp += BPF_WORDALIGN(caplen + hdrlen);
if (++n >= cnt && cnt > 0) {
p->bp = bp; 
p->cc = ep - bp;
return (n);
}
}
#undef bhp
p->cc = 0;
return (n);

--

In our case (from the debug info obtained from our program, I can see that
bhp->bh_caplen and bhp->bh_hdrlen are both zero (0).

(gdb) p *(struct bpf_hdr *)pkt
$11 = {bh_tstamp = {tv_sec = 16652, tv_usec = 0}, bh_caplen = 0, 
  bh_datalen = 33555200, bh_hdrlen = 0}

pkt is bp received back from libpcap.

cnt is -1 when we installed the callback function.

As can be seen ... caplen and hdrlen is then set to 0. bp is smaller
than ep because cc >0 (data was read)

It enters the while loop, set caplen, hdrlen to 0, calls the callback
function.  libpcap then tries to increment bp with the BPF_WORDALIGN
macro.
>From bpf.h
#define BPF_ALIGNMENT sizeof(long)
#define BPF_WORDALIGN(x) (((x)+(BPF_ALIGNMENT-1))&~(BPF_ALIGNMENT-1))

This concludes to 
(gdb) p (((0)+(sizeof(long)-1))&~(sizeof(long)-1))
$12 = 0

so bp is NOT incremented and the whole process is repeated and here it
gets stuck in the loop.

I attached a possible fix for this, please review, edit as necessar and
commit :)

The patch is to -current file, put should apply to most other versions
too.

Thankyou

Reinier


Index: pcap-bpf.c
===
RCS file: /home/freebsd-cvs/src/contrib/libpcap/pcap-bpf.c,v
retrieving revision 1.1.1.3
diff -c -r1.1.1.3 pcap-bpf.c
*** pcap-bpf.c  1998/09/15 19:28:05 1.1.1.3
--- pcap-bpf.c  1999/09/10 10:11:49
***
*** 117,122 
--- 117,130 
 * XXX A bpf_hdr matches a pcap_pkthdr.
 */
(*callback)(user, (struct pcap_pkthdr*)bp, bp + hdrlen);
+   /* 
+* If we can't increment bp, get out of the while 
+* We've atleast called the callback with the data 
+* we have at out disposal - NB : it might be garbage
+*/
+   if (!BPF_WORDALIGN(caplen + hdrlen)) {
+   break;
+   }
bp += BPF_WORDALIGN(caplen + hdrlen);
if (++n >= cnt && cnt > 0) {
p->bp = bp;

Re: NetWare client in -current

[Marcel Moolenaar]

Boris Popov wrote:

> Currently I'm trying to determine a reasonable set of NetWare
> utilities which should be included in the source tree.

Is it possible to have utilities to query and modify NDS?

> ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,

>From a user perspective, is salvaging not also important?

-- 
Marcel Moolenaarmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SCC Internetworking & Databases   http://www.scc.nl/
The FreeBSD projectmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: dropped connections (fwd)

[Max Khon]

hi, there

> ee does the same. The reason is that the program does not check for EOF
> on stdin, it continuously loops. It's a bug in the program. The thing
> that could have been changed is a signal from the shell that is no
> longer sent or so.
> 
> The problem is the program, not the OS.
> 
> It might be wortwhile to find the problem, solve and send the patch to
> the maintainer of the port and the original author.

the problem is in out ncurses (in -stable)
I've submitted a PR (http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/query-pr.cgi?pr=13679)

Please please please take a look at it as we (here at NSU)
would like to see fixed ncurses in 3.3-RELEASE
(I think ncurses 5 never would be MFC'ed to -stable?)

Thanks

/fjoe



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Re: Superblock.

[Robert Sexton]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 10:26:26AM +0200, Alex Le Heux wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I once had a similar situation: I had wiped my disklabel.



I know its easy to suggest somebody else do things, but turning this
into software might make for a very handy salvage tool, without a lot
of work for the author.  We seem to have folks popping up often
looking for little projects.  

I wonder how many folks have toasted drives in a recoverable way and
not bothered to ask for help

-- 
Robert Sexton - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cincinnati OH, USA
There's safety in numbers... Large prime numbers. - John Gilmore
Read the Newton FAQ! 


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RE: NetWare client in -current

[Matthew N. Dodd]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> On 10-Sep-99 Boris Popov wrote:
> >   mount_nwfs  - similar to mount_nfs
> >   ncplogin- creates permanent connection to a NetWare server
> > without an actual mount, 
> >   ncplogout   - destroy permanent connection,
> >   ncplist - displays various information about client itself
> > and NetWare servers,
> >   ncprint - allows to send job to NetWare printer,
> >   ncpsend - sends message to NetWare user or server console,
> >   ncplpd  - simple NetWare print server,
> >   ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
> >   ncpsvc  - remote control for a NetWare server,
> >   ncpasswd- allows to change password for a NetWare user.
> 
> Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> 
> The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be
> mount_nwfs because building it without the kernel source could be a
> problem, but the rest of it could be a port I think :)

Thats like suggesting we make the 'ipfw' command a port and leave the
kernel bits in the tree.  Since all this stuff depends on being in sync,
the only reasonable way to do this is to put it in the tree.

-- 
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| [EMAIL PROTECTED] |   2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax |
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Re: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[Jamie Bowden]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:

:Does it do IMAP? I have only seen *1* emailer which does IMAP properly (xfmail)
:all the others either don't support it at all, or treat IMAP like POP (ie just
:fetch mail from INBOX).

Pine does IMAP just fine.  I used to use it to read mail on box a, with
incoming accessd via box b, and storage on box c.  Now I just forward
everything to one account and procmail it all.

Jamie Bowden

-- 

If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up.  But boggle can go.
-Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle)

Re: NetWare client in -current

[Peter Wemm]

"Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> > On 10-Sep-99 Boris Popov wrote:
> > >   mount_nwfs  - similar to mount_nfs
> > >   ncplogin- creates permanent connection to a NetWare server
> > > without an actual mount, 
> > >   ncplogout   - destroy permanent connection,
> > >   ncplist - displays various information about client itself
> > > and NetWare servers,
> > >   ncprint - allows to send job to NetWare printer,
> > >   ncpsend - sends message to NetWare user or server console,
> > >   ncplpd  - simple NetWare print server,
> > >   ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
> > >   ncpsvc  - remote control for a NetWare server,
> > >   ncpasswd- allows to change password for a NetWare user.
> > 
> > Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> > 
> > The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be
> > mount_nwfs because building it without the kernel source could be a
> > problem, but the rest of it could be a port I think :)
> 
> Thats like suggesting we make the 'ipfw' command a port and leave the
> kernel bits in the tree.  Since all this stuff depends on being in sync,
> the only reasonable way to do this is to put it in the tree.

Or having mount_nfs in the base but moving nfsd/nfsiod/nfsstat to ports.
:-)

Cheers,
-Peter
--
Peter Wemm - [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Boris Popov]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Marcel Moolenaar wrote:

> > Currently I'm trying to determine a reasonable set of NetWare
> > utilities which should be included in the source tree.
> 
> Is it possible to have utilities to query and modify NDS?

I'm working on this (currently only queries). NDS library will be
separate package from ncplib.

> 
> > ncpurge - purge specified salvagable files,
> 
> From a user perspective, is salvaging not also important?

Yes it is important, but requires dialogue with user because
there can be more than one deleted file with same name. I'm trying to get
Novell to respond on my query about source code for 'filer' utility but
they keeps quiet at the moment.

--
Boris Popov
http://www.butya.kz/~bp/



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Mike Smith]

> On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> 
> > Is there any reason to not have it as a port?
> > 
> > The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be mount_nwfs
> > because building it without the kernel source could be a problem, but the rest
> > of it could be a port I think :)
> 
>   Yes, that's acceptable. But mount_nwfs require libncp.so and this 
> means that ncp library sources will be also required. So KLD, mount_nwfs
> and libncp should go into source tree and other utilities can be a port.

You could still build the KLD as a port, actually.

-- 
\\  The mind's the standard   \\  Mike Smith
\\  of the man.   \\  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
\\-- Joseph Merrick   \\  [EMAIL PROTECTED]




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Re: Superblock.

[Julian Elischer]

At least one person has already written this program...

THeey have mentionned this  in the hackers list so maybe a search of the
list may turn something up..
withing th last 2 years from memory.

Julian


On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Robert Sexton wrote:

> On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 10:26:26AM +0200, Alex Le Heux wrote:
> > Hi,
> > 
> > I once had a similar situation: I had wiped my disklabel.
> 
> 
> 
> I know its easy to suggest somebody else do things, but turning this
> into software might make for a very handy salvage tool, without a lot
> of work for the author.  We seem to have folks popping up often
> looking for little projects.  
> 
> I wonder how many folks have toasted drives in a recoverable way and
> not bothered to ask for help
> 
> -- 
> Robert Sexton - [EMAIL PROTECTED], Cincinnati OH, USA
> There's safety in numbers... Large prime numbers. - John Gilmore
> Read the Newton FAQ! 
> 
> 
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> 



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Re: Superblock.

[Josef Karthauser]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 09:51:50AM -0700, Julian Elischer wrote:
> At least one person has already written this program...
> 
> THeey have mentionned this  in the hackers list so maybe a search of the
> list may turn something up..
> withing th last 2 years from memory.
> 
> Julian

It's on my TODO list, honest :)  I've got the code, and just need to 
finish the tool.

Joe
-- 
Josef KarthauserFreeBSD: How many times have you booted today?
Technical Manager   Viagra for your server (http://www.uk.freebsd.org)
Pavilion Internet plc.  [[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]]


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Daniel O'Connor]

"Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
> > The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be
> > mount_nwfs because building it without the kernel source could be a
> > problem, but the rest of it could be a port I think :)
> Thats like suggesting we make the 'ipfw' command a port and leave the
> kernel bits in the tree.  Since all this stuff depends on being in sync,
> the only reasonable way to do this is to put it in the tree.

Why? What kernel code does this need?

---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Matthew N. Dodd]

On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, Daniel O'Connor wrote:
> "Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
> > > The only possible candidate for contrib'ifying I could see would be
> > > mount_nwfs because building it without the kernel source could be a
> > > problem, but the rest of it could be a port I think :)
> > Thats like suggesting we make the 'ipfw' command a port and leave the
> > kernel bits in the tree.  Since all this stuff depends on being in sync,
> > the only reasonable way to do this is to put it in the tree.
> 
> Why? What kernel code does this need?

The ncpfs kernel code for one.

We're talking about less than 500k of code here.

You want to take the anti-bloatist stance you'll have to do better than
that.  Try libreadline for starters.  :)

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] |   2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Daniel O'Connor]

"Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
> > Why? What kernel code does this need?
> The ncpfs kernel code for one.
> We're talking about less than 500k of code here.
> You want to take the anti-bloatist stance you'll have to do better than
> that.  Try libreadline for starters.  :)

Bah like I care enough to care ;)

If it has a fair amount of kernel code then its a good idea..
Also as you pointed out, it aids interoperability..

---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Parag Patel]

On Sat, 11 Sep 1999 03:08:40 +0930, "Daniel O'Connor" wrote:
>
>"Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
>> You want to take the anti-bloatist stance you'll have to do better than
>> that.  Try libreadline for starters.  :)
>
>Bah like I care enough to care ;)

Yow!  I had no idea it was so large!

I have an (as yet still incomplete) full-screen text-editor library I
wrote a long time ago - in C++ even - that supports (on a terminal using
termlib but not curses) full-screen editing, simultaneous "live"
multiple overlapping windows/views of buffers, full left/right up/down
scrolling, line-numbering, unlimited undo/redo including any buffer
marks, regular-expression searching, and arbitrary depth key-bindings.

It's less than half the size of libreadline.

I am so depressed.


-- Parag Patel


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Matthew N. Dodd]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, Parag Patel wrote:
> I have an (as yet still incomplete) full-screen text-editor library I
> wrote a long time ago - in C++ even - that supports (on a terminal using
> termlib but not curses) full-screen editing, simultaneous "live"
> multiple overlapping windows/views of buffers, full left/right up/down
> scrolling, line-numbering, unlimited undo/redo including any buffer
> marks, regular-expression searching, and arbitrary depth key-bindings.
> 
> It's less than half the size of libreadline.
> 
> I am so depressed.

Clean it up and add perl bindings to it.  Thats something that perl sorely
misses.  Come to think of it, libedit could use perl bindings...  Hummm...

Kevin?  :)

-- 
| Matthew N. Dodd  | '78 Datsun 280Z | '75 Volvo 164E | FreeBSD/NetBSD  |
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] |   2 x '84 Volvo 245DL| ix86,sparc,pmax |
| http://www.jurai.net/~winter | This Space For Rent  | ISO8802.5 4ever |



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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Parag Patel]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:07:12 EDT, "Matthew N. Dodd" wrote:
>
>Clean it up and add perl bindings to it.  Thats something that perl sorely
>misses.  Come to think of it, libedit could use perl bindings...  Hummm...

Gaah - another big line-editing library!  My editor's even smaller than
libedit!

   textdata bss dec hex filename
  601134352   0   64465fbd1 /usr/lib/libedit.so
 117406   140041464  132874   2070a /usr/lib/libreadline.so
  48843 6364492   53971d2d3 tst

I'll add my editing package to my things-to-clean-up list and make it
available when I next have some time.

I've never cared for perl tho'.  

Growing up programming on a KL-10, I still think the correct place for
line-editing is in the driver.  Hell - it's already doing basic
erase/kill line editing as it is.  Then you don't have to hack every
command-line app to get line-editing.


-- Parag Patel


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Re: Superblock.

[Warner Losh]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Julian Elischer 
writes:
: At least one person has already written this program...

I wrote one, but didn't post it.  Someone else wrote one and did post
it.  It really is bog simple to get a good first guess.  Harder to get
it perfect.
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 13:48:45 +
From: Niall Smart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Warner


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Matthew Hunt]

On Fri, Sep 10, 1999 at 02:07:12PM -0400, Matthew N. Dodd wrote:

> Clean it up and add perl bindings to it.  Thats something that perl sorely
> misses.  Come to think of it, libedit could use perl bindings...  Hummm...

/usr/ports/devel/p5-ReadLine-Gnu

Also /usr/ports/devel/p5-ReadLine-Perl, which is pure Perl, instead of
using an external library.

If you say "use Term::ReadLine", Perl will use either of those if
available, or use a useless dummy version that ships with Perl otherwise.

Bindings for libedit which are compatible with these would be cool.

-- 
Matthew Hunt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> * UNIX is a lever for the
http://www.pobox.com/~mph/   * intellect. -J.R. Mashey


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Re: NetWare client in -current

[Warner Losh]

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Daniel O'Connor" writes:
: > Thats like suggesting we make the 'ipfw' command a port and leave the
: > kernel bits in the tree.  Since all this stuff depends on being in sync,
: > the only reasonable way to do this is to put it in the tree.
: 
: Why? What kernel code does this need?

The IPFILTER kernel option.  ipfw just builds the IPFILTER kernel tables.

Warner


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Re: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[Daniel J. O'Connor]

On 10-Sep-99 Jamie Bowden wrote:
> :fetch mail from INBOX).
>  Pine does IMAP just fine.  I used to use it to read mail on box a, with
>  incoming accessd via box b, and storage on box c.  Now I just forward
>  everything to one account and procmail it all.

Umm.. welll I'd like to know to enable sub folder support in it then..
Haveing multiple accounts on different machines would be nice too (then it
could do what xfmail can)

---
Daniel O'Connor software and network engineer
for Genesis Software - http://www.gsoft.com.au
"The nice thing about standards is that there
are so many of them to choose from."
  -- Andrew Tanenbaum




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Re: 3.2-STABLE SMP system not SMP'ing

[Ben Rosengart]

On Fri, 10 Sep 1999, David Scheidt wrote:

> It looks like something ate your attachments.  Try setting all the values
> that mtable reports on.


I think I just forgot them.


I uncommented 

options NCPU=2  # number of CPUs 
options NBUS=4  # number of busses
options NAPIC=1 # number of IO APICs
options NINTR=24# number of INTs 

and now the SMP works!  Thank you.

I was under the impression that these options represented defaults, and
that the other two were the only ones that had to be uncommented for
SMP.  Any chance that LINT or GENERIC could get some more informative
comments on this?  I'd offer diffs, but I don't know whether all six
options are necessary, or some subset.  I've cc'd this to hackers for
comments on this question.

--
 Ben Rosengart

UNIX Systems Engineer, Skunk Group
StarMedia Network, Inc.



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Re: X mailers (was Re: ANNOUNCE: Linux ABI/SDK standards for Ope

[Jamie Bowden]

On Sat, 11 Sep 1999, Daniel J. O'Connor wrote:

:
:On 10-Sep-99 Jamie Bowden wrote:
:> :fetch mail from INBOX).
:>  Pine does IMAP just fine.  I used to use it to read mail on box a, with
:>  incoming accessd via box b, and storage on box c.  Now I just forward
:>  everything to one account and procmail it all.
:
:Umm.. welll I'd like to know to enable sub folder support in it then..
:Haveing multiple accounts on different machines would be nice too (then it
:could do what xfmail can)

In 'Incoming Folders' type 'a' and it will ask you for the server name to
add.

Jamie Bowden

-- 

If we've got to fight over grep, sign me up.  But boggle can go.
-Ted Faber (on Hasbro's request for removal of /usr/games/boggle)



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Wall Street Journal on Open source OS (9/10/99)

[Sanjay Waghray]

Attached is an article from the Wall Street Journal Online Edition.

---

September 10, 1999 




   Beyond Linux, Free Systems
   Do Their Bit to Build Web

   By LEE GOMES 
   Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL

   Here's a little-known fact about the world's busiest Web
   site: It runs on a piece of free software. And it isn't the
   free operating system called Linux.

   To serve nearly 80 million people each month, Yahoo!
   Inc. operates about 1,000 computers that run on
   FreeBSD, a program distributed without charge over the
   Internet. FreeBSD is the most popular in a trio of free
   operating systems -- all historically linked to the
   University of California at Berkeley -- that are quietly
   playing a major role in the evolution of the Internet.

   Among operating systems, the
   internal engines that run
   computers, Linux has stolen the
   spotlight lately, as supporters
   hope it will eventually challenge
   the dominance of Microsoft
   Corp.'s Windows. The initial
   public offering of Red Hat Inc., the Linux software
   vendor, was one of the hottest deals on Wall Street this
   summer.

   But the role of FreeBSD and its cousins shows how free
   programs keep changing the software world and creating
   headaches for big established players. Sun Microsystems
   Inc., a leader in managing big Web sites, is carefully
   watching the growth of Linux and other free programs.
   And Microsoft faces a particularly significant challenge,
   since the Redmond, Wash., company wants its
   forthcoming Windows 2000 to dominate the "dot-com"
   world where the freebies are strong.

   "With Linux capturing the public imagination, the BSDs
   have gotten lost in the noise," said International Data
   Corp. analyst Dan Kusnetzky. "But they are very
   sophisticated technologies that do a lot of work in the
   world, even if people don't know about them."

   The BSD programs and Linux actually share a common
   lineage, a collective development process and a
   rambunctious cast of characters.

   The free programs are all variants of the venerable Unix
   system invented by AT&T Corp. And they aren't just
   running Yahoo. While Microsoft almost never talks
   about it, its own Hotmail free e-mail service runs not on
   its flagship Windows NT but on FreeBSD.

   In fact, one recent survey showed that BSD accounted
   for nearly 15% of all server machines connected to the
   Internet. Linux leads the pack with 31%,and is the only
   major operating system making any gains. Windows had
   24%.

   The Linux saga is already
   the stuff of modern legend.
   In 1991, Linus Torvalds, a
   21-year-old student in
   Helsinki, began writing an
   operating system
   essentially from scratch so
   he could have something to
   use on his home computer.
   The programs FreeBSD,
   NetBSD and OpenBSD, by
   contrast, are the
   descendants of code
   written in the late 1970s
   and early 1980s at UC
   Berkeley.

   Factional battles and online fusillades between and
   among the various BSDs and Linux are common.
   OpenBSD was started in 1995 by Theo de Raadt, a
   mountain biking 31-year-old Canadian after being kicked
   out of the NetBSD movement.

   'Open Source'

   BSD buffs like to think of themselves as a slightly more
   grown-up version of the "open source" movement, which
   distributes underlying programming instructions so users
   can study and modify software. While Mr. Torvalds has
   full control of Linux, for example, FreeBSD is overseen
   by a 15-person group called the "Core." What's more,
   the various BSDs say that their software, by virtue of its
   head start on Linux, is more mature and stable.

   "We didn't write most of this code, so we don't have a
   lot of ego involved in getting people to use it," says
   Jordan K. Hubbard, 36 years old, an evangelist for
   FreeBSD who many people credit for 

NAT speed - part 1.

[Ugen Antsilevitch]

Good day.
This is part one of what is (hopefully) will be my long and hard look in the
IP routing in FreeBSD as we know it. I must admit that i am out of shape on
many subjects and so much of this data may be wrong because of me doing
the Wrong Thing.
Anyway - these are the compressed results of day of testing.
Machine - Celeron 450MHZ (overclocked) , 128Mb ram, WD IDE drive,
 NE2000 compatible PCI 10Mbps card.
Test application: netpipe - do you know of anything better/more exact?
Test conditions: various packet sizes/amounts through the loopback.
Netowrk setup: with FIREWALL compiled in.
Here are some numbers (i am not going to give any long lists here, just a general 
idea).

a) Firewall set to pass everything. No other switching/routing.
1Kb data - 200Mb/s (thats Megabit just in case)
4Kb data - 400Mb/s
>4Kb data (up to 1Mb) - 400Mb/s

b) Firewall set to divert all traffic on lo0 to nat. Nat set in dynamic, does not 
translate
 anything obviously. (In this configuration any packet sent to nat will be matched 
against
 hash and immediately found a match. Since there is only one connection at a time,
 nat's hash has no chains of linked values and this therefore is as fast as it can 
work.)

1Kb data - 55Mb/s
4Kb data - 98Mb/s
>4Kb data - 100Mb/s

Quite consistently as you can see, moving packets betwin kernel and user world and
then back is 4 times slower then doing all the work in kernel.
Obviously the difference comes mostly from kernel/user switch, since the processing
of a packet is quite similar to kernel procedures and in fact should not be more then
a couple of firewall rules/routing table rules in time equality.

c) Simulating load on the machine. Well, i have no idea how to simulate a load of real
working Apache servers and in fact this will vary greately depending on multitude of
things. Loads siumlated therefore using make's of large applications (kernel, pine, 
tcsh etc).
nat is turned off. all ipfw rules flushed.

4Kb data sent.
0 makes - 400Mb/s
1 make - 310-320Mb/s
2 makes 220-240 Mb/s
3 makes 190-220 Mb/s

I am really not sure what to make of it, it is fairly linear which is expected, 
however i
am not sure how to translate it into real world's data (machine loaded with web 
applications,
mail etc). Looking at %% of CPU usage from top does not give a good idea of loads since
make is not a single process and numbers given for gcc etc running under it are quite 
low
and vary over time (1.5% - 3% as opposed to >40% for each netpipe process).

d) I did some tests on the actual Ethernet, however at home the best i have is this 
and another
machine and 10Mb crosslinked wire. The only thing i found (which is almost obvious 
without
testing) is that up to 4Kb maximal transfer rates are not reached. Around 4Kb transfer 
rate becomes
7Mb/s and stays there, raising top to 8Mb/s around 12Kb of data. 80% performance is 
quite
characteristic of the 10Mb/s ethernet but i have no bandwith to try nat etc since these
numbers are quite lower then speed if internal kernel switching.

Therefore if any of you are interested in deeper understanding of this whole thing and 
have
3 machines with 100Mb ethernet on them, i would appreciate access to those to do some 
more
thorough testing. Also if anyone is in NYC are and can loan me just one machine and a 
couple
of fast Ethernet cards - i can stage it right here at home.

I didn't look at the kernel code implementing fast switching so i don't know at this 
point if
loopback traffic ever passes that, however changing net.inet.ip.fastswitching to 1 did 
not
influence any of this data. What other options do we have to play with? MTU size?
What else? I am however looking for major numbers, not minor tweaking. Also if anyone
has a good idea about traffic switching speeds in "real" routers such as Cisco - i 
would
appreciate a look at that.

Thanx!
--Ugen




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