Stus-List Owners Manuals?

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hello C&C Sailors, 

I recently bought C&C 30 MK1 hull #7 (if I'm decoding correctly; full hull 
number is 30007972). Up until 2012, this boat was named Ruby (after her red 
topsides, I presume), and was in the Grand Traverse Yacht Club in Traverse 
City, MI. Does anybody know anything about the history of this boat? 

More to the point of this email's subject, I ordered an owner's manual from Stu 
Murray and sent a check to him at the address listed on the cncphotoalbum 
website, but have yet to get any kind of response. Is that still a viable way 
to obtain an owner's manual? 

Thanks in advance and best regards. 

Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK1 
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Re: Stus-List Photo Album Orders, etc.

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thank you Stu. No worries - I can be patient. You'll notice a few duplicate 
orders from me - I neglected to note your mailing address the first time. I 
mailed you a check for one manual, and I only need one :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Stu via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Stu"  
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2016 7:24:37 AM 
Subject: Stus-List Photo Album Orders, etc. 

Hi all 
As noted by Joe, we are in Florida trying to avoid the Canadian winter. Some 
how, it is not as warm and sunny as expected, but we have not had to shovel any 
snow. 
During our absence from Canada, I have listed burgees and decals as being ‘Out 
of Stock” until mid-April. I just don’t have the room to carry the equipment 
and/or a stock of items. Once we get back home, everything will be ready to 
ship. 
Owners’ Manuals are different. They are downloadable and don’t take any space. 
If you use PayPal, your download link will be sent once I receive confirmation 
of payment. Checks and money orders take longer. It can take up to 2 weeks for 
the postal services to send a letter from USA to Canada. My home mailbox is 
checked daily and I am notified when it arrives – mind you, I can’t cash it til 
I get back home. PayPal is preferred. 
If you have sent me a document to be posted on the Photo Album and don’t see it 
posted, don’t worry, it will be there sometime. Our internet connections suck 
big time. Some days it works. If I do get connected, I might as well have a 
dial-up connection with a 256K modem. And I refuse to pay for a monthly service 
that would need a 2nd mortgage on the house to pay for it. 
So if you made a purchase, sent a document or try to contact me, we will reply 
as soon as possible – just be patient. 
Have a good one 
Stu 


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Stus-List Early 30-1 Interior Doors

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

C&C Sailors- 

I noticed the owner of C&C 30 MK1 hull #1, Rick Bushie, is on this list. It's 
awesome that boat is still sailing, and that her owner is in this community. 

The C&C 30 MK1 hull #7 I just bought has a sliding door between the salon and 
the head, but no door between the head and the v-berth. Some of the C&C 30 MK1 
brochures (I suspect later ones) show a hinged door between salon and head, and 
a folding door or double hinged doors between head and v-berth. Does anyone 
know if the door(s) between head and v-berth were an addition in later hull 
numbers? Or maybe my boat's doors were removed by a former owner and never 
replaced. Thanks in advance. 

Also, Rick, what is the displacement of your boat? Sailboat data.com and the 
brochures show 8000 pounds. But the previous owner of hull #7 thinks it's 
higher, like 10,000 pounds. I'll measure her precise displacement by 
differencing truck scale weights of loaded and unloaded trailer after I launch 
her this spring, but just wanted to check with you. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 
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Stus-List 30-1 Vang Refit?

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

C&C Sailors- 

The C&C 30 MK1 hull #7 I just bought does not have a boom vang. Perhaps because 
its boom appears designed for furling the main by rolling it around the outside 
of the boom. Or perhaps because vangs were not standard equipment on 30-1s (I 
don't see vangs in the brochures). But in looking at comparables before buying 
my boat, I did see 30-1s on the market with bangs, boom kickers, etc. 

Have any 30-1 sailors on this list found it necessary or unnecessary to have a 
vang? Or necessary to rig something else to keep the boom down? I'm worried 
about the boom pulling up on broad reaches or runs. On the other hand, I think 
it's a fairly heavy boom, and the boom-end sheeting may help to keep it down. 
I'd be interested in your comments. 

Thanks in advance. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 
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Re: Stus-List 30-1 Vang Refit?

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thank you Rick, Michael, Francois, and all - your advice is valuable. 

I appreciate the benefits of vangs from a few years of racing Capri 22s, J/22s, 
and Merit 25s. In addition to the adjustable backstays on those fractional 
rigs, we'd use the vang upwind in heavy air to help depower, and to play the 
traveler in puffs without sacrificing leech tension. And of course we'd use the 
vang off the wind to prevent boom rise. That is why I was alarmed when I first 
saw Kona (now Grenadine) without a vang, and I'm really grateful to be able to 
reach out to this mail list with the question. 

Those were all soft vangs - block and line arrangements. I like the idea of a 
rigid vang to replace the topping lift - it is a hassle. I'd always disconnect 
it underway so it wouldn't interfere with leech tension, and I did drop the 
boom on my daughter's head once when dousing the main :( And tensioning systems 
are a pain - you have to reach too high to raise the boom, in order to have 
enough range when slack to avoid interfering with leech tension. 

So, for those who have installed a Garhauer or Easy Kick 2, how and where do 
those systems fasten to the mast and boom? I'll measure the distance from 
gooseneck to mast collar to see what the angle would be and compare to the 
minimum for each rigid vang option - thanks for that tip Michael. Has anyone 
refitted a soft vang to an early 30-1? How and where did you attach the bales 
for the blocks to mast and boom? 

Thanks Again, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Rick Brass via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Rick Brass"  
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 6:53:45 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 Vang Refit? 



Randy, 



I get the impression that the roller reefing boom was on a number of the early 
70s C&C models, though whether standard or optional I don’t know. 



My 25 came with a roller reefing boom. It also had a soft vang. Part of the 
gear included a large yellow metal “hoop”, in the top of which was a narrow 
slot (sort of like a big “C” with a small opening) and on either side of the 
slot were 2 plastic rollers. The hoop went around the boom with the sail going 
up through the slot and the top of the soft vang attached at the bottom of the 
hoop. 



Never worked for crap. Which is probably why you don’t see roller reefing booms 
any more. 



I have gone to slab reefing and a rigid Garhauer vang on the 25. But I still 
keep the old “hoop” and the hand crank for the roller reefing on the boat as 
conversation pieces. 



Do you need a vang? Depends on how and where you sail and on personal 
preferences. 



Without a vang, the boom will rise and the leach of the main will twist off and 
spill wind when you are on any point of sail except close hauled. The tendency 
for the boom to rise can be controlled by mainsheet tension, but the more off 
the wind you are (reaching and running) the more rise you will get. The boom 
could be made of depleted uranium and would still not significantly stop the 
process. 



A vang, rigid or soft, controls the rise of the boom and allows you to tension 
the leach for optimum performance. A rigid vang or boom kicker will support the 
boom when the sail is lowered so you can do away with the constant irritations 
of the topping lift – getting tangled in the backstay, needing adjustment when 
you foot off, forgetting to retension when you drop sail and having the boom 
fall into the cockpit, yada yada. 



There was a discussion on the list a couple of weeks ago about the merits of 
various rigid vangs and the Boomkicker. You should search the list archives and 
read it. You would be surprised how many of us on the list have a Garhauer 
rigid vang. 



Rick Brass 

Imzadi C&C 38 mk 2 

la Belle Aurore C&C 25 mk1 

Washington, NC 








From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 10, 2016 10:27 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Stus-List 30-1 Vang Refit? 





C&C Sailors- 





The C&C 30 MK1 hull #7 I just bought does not have a boom vang. Perhaps because 
its boom appears designed for furling the main by rolling it around the outside 
of the boom. Or perhaps because vangs were not standard equipment on 30-1s (I 
don't see vangs in the brochures). But in looking at comparables before buying 
my boat, I did see 30-1s on the market with bangs, boom kickers, etc. 





Have any 30-1 sailors on this list found it necessary or unnecessary to have a 
vang? Or necessary to rig something else to keep the boom down? I'm worried 
about the boom pulling up on broad reaches or runs. On the other hand, I think 
it's a fairly heavy boom, and the boom-end sheeting may help to keep it down. 
I'd be interested in your comments. 





Th

Re: Stus-List Early 30-1 Interior Doors

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Aaron, Gary, Michael, Ryan. That optional equipment list didn't show any 
options for interior doors. Interestingly, however, it did show an option for a 
boom vang :) 

I will assume my boat either didn't come with a door between head and v-berth, 
or the door was removed and not replaced by a former owner (I can look for 
evidence of that). I'll probably want one and fabricate one - add that to the 
project list :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Michael Brown"  
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:38:37 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Early 30-1 Interior Doors 

I have a C&C 30 "77" model year. 
>From my HIN ZCC304531076 I would guess it is #453 laid up October 1976. 

I have the sliding door and after a few years of ownership the PO dropped off 
the 
folding door that the PPO had removed. 

At haulout, so no mast and most stuff removed the crane weighs me at 8500 - 
8800 lbs. 
Some of the C&C specs claimed 7,900 lbs which may have been possible stripped 
out, 
one battery and tiller steering. I think in race trim carrying stuff like 
flares, anchor and rode, 
#1 - #3 - spinnakers, spin and whisker pole  I would guess 10,000 lbs is 
reasonable. 


Also - from your other post on boom vangs - the early C&C 30 have a very low 
boom so 
the mounting angle needs to be considered. The distance on the mast from the 
gooseneck 
to above the mast collar is pretty minimal. Most boom vang installation 
instructions suggest 
a minimum angle they should be mounted at and that usually isn't possible on 
the early 30s. 
I have an Easykick II installed that works OK and does support the boom ( a 
racing requirement ). 
Downwind we use it to control boom lift, and upwind it is useful for setting 
depth and twist. 
I would recommend installing one, doesn't have to be fancy or expensive. I very 
much doubt 
given the short distance on the mast it operates over and the stiffness of the 
mast that any 
significant mast bend is generated. 

Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C&C 30-1 



C&C Sailors- 

I noticed the owner of C&C 30 MK1 hull #1, Rick Bushie, is on this list. It's 
awesome that boat is still sailing, and that her owner is in this community. 

The C&C 30 MK1 hull #7 I just bought has a sliding door between the salon and 
the head, but no door between the head and the v-berth. Some of the C&C 30 MK1 
brochures (I suspect later ones) show a hinged door between salon and head, and 
a folding door or double hinged doors between head and v-berth. Does anyone 
know if the door(s) between head and v-berth were an addition in later hull 
numbers? Or maybe my boat's doors were removed by a former owner and never 
replaced. Thanks in advance. 

Also, Rick, what is the displacement of your boat? Sailboat data.com and the 
brochures show 8000 pounds. But the previous owner of hull #7 thinks it's 
higher, like 10,000 pounds. I'll measure her precise displacement by 
differencing truck scale weights of loaded and unloaded trailer after I launch 
her this spring, but just wanted to check with you. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 




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Stus-List 30-1 Displacement (was Re: Early 30-1 Interior Doors)

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks for the displacement data Michael. 

I have HIN 30007972 - hull #7 laid up in September 1972 if I'm decoding 
correctly. 

She has tiller steering and the Atomic-4 gasoline engine, rigged for spinnaker 
(pole chocked on deck) and roller-furling boom. Two batteries, two sets of 
primary winches, two danforth anchors with chain / rope rode, fairly extensive 
sail inventory. Everything else is basic and standard, or very lightweight 
optional stuff. For racing I can remove an anchor and many of the sails, and 
sail with empty tanks, etc. 

I'll report back to the list after I've calculated her weight from truck scale 
differences between loaded & unloaded trailer. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Michael Brown"  
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:38:37 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Early 30-1 Interior Doors 

I have a C&C 30 "77" model year. 
>From my HIN ZCC304531076 I would guess it is #453 laid up October 1976. 

... 

At haulout, so no mast and most stuff removed the crane weighs me at 8500 - 
8800 lbs. 
Some of the C&C specs claimed 7,900 lbs which may have been possible stripped 
out, 
one battery and tiller steering. I think in race trim carrying stuff like 
flares, anchor and rode, 
#1 - #3 - spinnakers, spin and whisker pole  I would guess 10,000 lbs is 
reasonable. 
... 

Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C&C 30-1 



C&C Sailors- 

I noticed the owner of C&C 30 MK1 hull #1, Rick Bushie, is on this list. It's 
awesome that boat is still sailing, and that her owner is in this community. 



... 



Also, Rick, what is the displacement of your boat? Sailboat data.com and the 
brochures show 8000 pounds. But the previous owner of hull #7 thinks it's 
higher, like 10,000 pounds. I'll measure her precise displacement by 
differencing truck scale weights of loaded and unloaded trailer after I launch 
her this spring, but just wanted to check with you. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 




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Re: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

That's the way my club does it too - "A" division for spinnaker boats, "B" 
division for non-spinnaker boats.  Last year we had 17 spin boats and 11 
non-spin boats in my club. Among the spin boats the Capri-22s, J/22s, and 
Santana 20s usually fleet (three or more for a fleet in my club).

Since my boat has a spinnaker, its PHRF rating would be 12 seconds lower in A 
division than in B division (regardless of whether I flew the chute in a given 
A division race).

I'd like to ask your thoughts on which division to race a 30-1 in, given the 
local conditions and my potential crew, but I'll start a separate thread on 
that.

Best Regards,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30 MK1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 23, 2016, at 1:35 PM, Jack Fitzgerald via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello Ron,
> 
> We do the same thing here in Savannah. We have Class A for the spin boats and 
> Class B for JAM. Your PHRF rating applies to your boat regardless of the 
> class entered. Saves a lot of RC grief, but the usual "I lost because my 
> rating sucks" still applies.
> 
> Best regards,
> Jack Fitzgerald
> HONEY (C&C 39TM)
> US12788
> SAVANNAH, GA
> 
> 
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 3:23 PM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> Hi Ron, 
>> 
>> We have a pretty simple / easy way to deal with that:  We have spin / 
>> non-spin classes with the same phrf ranges.. 
>> 
>> This way you completely avoid all the complications as it's pretty tricky to 
>> judge the spin's advantage: The effects will depend on the length of the 
>> course, it's nature (Is it 'Reachy', triangle, windward / leeward, etc) and 
>> the boats themselves. Some boats benefit more than others.   
>> 
>> I think just "adding XX" to Phrf will skew the results.  Having separate 
>> spin / non-spin classes is much simpler, fairer, and less open to 
>> controversy. 
>> 
>> 
>> My 2 cents ,
>> 
>> Good luck with it.
>> 
>> -Francois Rivard
>> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
>> Lake Lanier, Georgia
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Greetings folks,We have a problem with how to handicap boats that race with 
>> jib and main only (JAM). ?The PHRF handicaps basically are for spinnaker 
>> racing. ?I believe that there were some clubs, a few only, that adjust 
>> numbers for JAM boats. ?We make adjustments to the numbers for our lake 
>> conditions and style of boat (older displacement etc.), but not sure how to 
>> fix JAM.Polars that I have seen for about 6 boats all show with chute only. 
>> ?Does anyone know if there are polars for downwind sailing without chutes? 
>> ?How can one arrive at those speeds?Could some of you whose clubs adjust 
>> numbers let me know any info you can on how that is accomplished at your 
>> club? ?And the rationale behind the adjustment.If it gets too specific for 
>> the whole list, we can take it offline later to keep traffic 
>> down.ThanksRonWild CheriC&C 30-1STL
>> Regards
>> 
>> 
>> 
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Stus-List Racing a 30-1

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi All, 

I'd welcome any opinions you might like to share on racing a 30-1. As mentioned 
in the other thread on handicapping JAM boats, I have a choice of racing my 
(new to me) 30-1 in a spinnaker boat division or a non-spinnaker boat division 
(my boat is rigged for spinnaker). We have ten-week series in my club, and I'd 
have to stay in one division for a whole series (but could switch divisions 
between series). We also have occasional one and two-day weekend races in which 
I'd have to choose a division. 

>From what I see in 
>http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf,
> it looks like a 30-1 usually gets a PHRF rating of 174, which would be the 
>third-lowest rating in my club. We've got a Capri-25 at 173, and an F-240s at 
>170. 

One of my questions is how many crew are advisable for racing a 30-1, with 
spinnaker or without. On smaller boats (Capri-22s, J/22s, Merit 25s) we'd race 
and fly spinnaker with three crew - helm, trimmer, and foredeck. A fourth could 
come in handy in heavy air. I've gotten a couple indications that I should have 
maybe twice that number for a 30-1. What are the typical crew positions on a 
30-1? If it makes any difference, my spinnakers have dousing socks. 

I race on a lake in Colorado. The spinnaker division courses are upwind / 
downwind, and the non-spinnaker division courses are triangles. We generally 
try to set courses so that races last 60-90 minutes. Weather-wise we have 
varied conditions from night to night. Some nights are frickin' gusty, with 
Colorado afternoon and evening thunderstorms. Some nights are light air and we 
run out of beer before finishing :) Several times a year we get really good 
conditions - a steady 15-20 kt. breeze in which everyone's at hull speed and 
and trying to stay in control and / or reduce weather helm. Sea state is not 
really an issue, except for some powerboat wake and chop. 

If there were more light-air nights in a series than heavy-air nights, would a 
30-1 perform better against its PRHF on a triangle course, or on an upwind / 
downwind course? How many crew (some experienced, some not, all still 
reasonably agile) are needed to handle a 30-1 safely under spinnaker in gusty 
or heavy-air conditions? 

Thanks in advance for any opinions. 

Best Regards, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 
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Re: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Gary what do you mean by "Again, in light air, a spinnaker is a big s"? 

Thanks, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Gary Nylander"  
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 1:16:22 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers 



I assume you are talking about a mixed fleet of JAM and chute racers. We have a 
Wednesday night fleet and a club on our river here in St. Michaels – and have 
mixed fleets in each. The Wednesday folks allow a 10% PHRF adjustment for 
non-spinnaker. It works most of the time – in heavy air (where your and my 
30-1’s would be at hull speed anyway) it is enough, in light air, not enough of 
an adjustment. Our courses are in pretty flat water – and end up being mostly 
up and down the river which is up to a half mile wide. The 10% is not enough in 
our rather light conditions. 



After experiencing that, we made some further adjustments for the Saturday club 
which race down the river where there is more room. We use 15% flat adjustment 
for JAM and half that if you are running a cruising chute which is tacked to 
the bow – no sprits and no pole allowed. It seems to work better and provides a 
more equitable adjustment. Again, in light air, a spinnaker is a big s, but as 
it turns out, if you only have a small or inexperienced crew and are sailing 
short legs, being out there with the adjustment is better than mowing the lawn. 
Both of our fleets (many of us are sailing in both series) have a pretty wide 
range of handicaps. 



The fast boats are not helped very much – 10 or 15% of 100 doesn’t make much of 
a difference, but of 200, it does. 



Gary Nylander 

St. Michaels MD 




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B. 
Frerker via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 2:26 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Ronald B. Frerker  
Subject: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers 





Greetings folks, 


We have a problem with how to handicap boats that race with jib and main only 
(JAM). The PHRF handicaps basically are for spinnaker racing. I believe that 
there were some clubs, a few only, that adjust numbers for JAM boats. We make 
adjustments to the numbers for our lake conditions and style of boat (older 
displacement etc.), but not sure how to fix JAM. 


Polars that I have seen for about 6 boats all show with chute only. Does anyone 
know if there are polars for downwind sailing without chutes? How can one 
arrive at those speeds? 


Could some of you whose clubs adjust numbers let me know any info you can on 
how that is accomplished at your club? And the rationale behind the adjustment. 


If it gets too specific for the whole list, we can take it offline later to 
keep traffic down. 


Thanks 


Ron 


Wild Cheri 


C&C 30-1 


STL 




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Re: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

No worries - your other reply was very helpful - will reply in that thread. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Gary Nylander"  
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:34:58 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers 



I have no idea – my Win 10 email has a mind of its own – don’t know whether it 
is editing itself or what – every once in a while the cursor just goes away or 
the whole page goes away or something else – I thought it was the wireless 
mouse, but I tried today without it and it still is goofy. 



In light air, a spinnaker is wonderful. 



Gary 




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 12:20 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers 





Gary what do you mean by "Again, in light air, a spinnaker is a big s"? 





Thanks, 


Randy 



- Original Message -



From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Gary Nylander" < gnylan...@atlanticbb.net > 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 1:16:22 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers 





I assume you are talking about a mixed fleet of JAM and chute racers. We have a 
Wednesday night fleet and a club on our river here in St. Michaels – and have 
mixed fleets in each. The Wednesday folks allow a 10% PHRF adjustment for 
non-spinnaker. It works most of the time – in heavy air (where your and my 
30-1’s would be at hull speed anyway) it is enough, in light air, not enough of 
an adjustment. Our courses are in pretty flat water – and end up being mostly 
up and down the river which is up to a half mile wide. The 10% is not enough in 
our rather light conditions. 



After experiencing that, we made some further adjustments for the Saturday club 
which race down the river where there is more room. We use 15% flat adjustment 
for JAM and half that if you are running a cruising chute which is tacked to 
the bow – no sprits and no pole allowed. It seems to work better and provides a 
more equitable adjustment. Again, in light air, a spinnaker is a big s, but as 
it turns out, if you only have a small or inexperienced crew and are sailing 
short legs, being out there with the adjustment is better than mowing the lawn. 
Both of our fleets (many of us are sailing in both series) have a pretty wide 
range of handicaps. 



The fast boats are not helped very much – 10 or 15% of 100 doesn’t make much of 
a difference, but of 200, it does. 



Gary Nylander 

St. Michaels MD 




From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Ronald B. 
Frerker via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2016 2:26 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Ronald B. Frerker < rbfrer...@yahoo.com > 
Subject: Stus-List Handicap questions for JAM racers 





Greetings folks, 


We have a problem with how to handicap boats that race with jib and main only 
(JAM). The PHRF handicaps basically are for spinnaker racing. I believe that 
there were some clubs, a few only, that adjust numbers for JAM boats. We make 
adjustments to the numbers for our lake conditions and style of boat (older 
displacement etc.), but not sure how to fix JAM. 


Polars that I have seen for about 6 boats all show with chute only. Does anyone 
know if there are polars for downwind sailing without chutes? How can one 
arrive at those speeds? 


Could some of you whose clubs adjust numbers let me know any info you can on 
how that is accomplished at your club? And the rationale behind the adjustment. 


If it gets too specific for the whole list, we can take it offline later to 
keep traffic down. 


Thanks 


Ron 


Wild Cheri 


C&C 30-1 


STL 






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Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Gary, this is very helpful. Couple details about my boat that affect 
crew positions / responsibilities: tiller steering, traveler aft on transom, 
halyards not led aft, no headsail furler. 

So the full complement would be driver, mainsail trimmer, two headsail 
trimmers, mast person, and bow person. If shorthanded the driver could trim the 
main, and the bow person could double as a headsail trimmer. But probably need 
four minimum (driver, trimmer, mast, bow) to fly the chute, and more is better 
as the air gets heavier. 

Thanks for the tip about the barber hauler on reaches. My boat has a very short 
(two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like a spin pole - I wonder if 
that's what it's for. 

After getting your comments, and Mike's (Persistence, Halifax), I'll probably 
race in B division (JAM) in the spring series so my crew and I can get used to 
the boat and practice with the spinnaker outside of racing, then switch to A 
division (spinnaker) for the summer series. 

Much appreciated. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Gary Nylander"  
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:20:13 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 



I’ll try to answer your questions, but the 30 is somewhat unique. I say this 
from owning and racing mine for over 20 years. 



I have raced both spinnaker and non-spinnaker and picked up my fair share of 
trophies in each. My ex (Admiral – we share the boat) and her husband race her 
now in a mixed fleet and have done quite well, taking the series title a couple 
of years ago (she drives, he grinds and the rest of the crew is pretty good). I 
won our JAM series in 2013 and was second in 2014 (didn’t race all the races 
last year). 



Crew: five or six for spin – one on bow to hook up the chute and pull down the 
genoa – one on mast – handles pole end and helps on the halyards and adjusts 
the outhaul – everything else on Penniless is led aft, so there can be four in 
cockpit (too many) so spin trimmer is generally standing by the windows. 
Driver, main trimmer (traveler is on bridge deck by companionway, easily 
handled by one person and it is not that vital to jump back to the rail – boat 
is stout as I said), two jib folks, one to let out, and the other to pull in. 
Any more, they go on the rail. 



For JAM, don’t always need the bow person, so mast person can do both – and no 
spin to trim. Most of the time I like five for JAM, because we sometimes use 
the spin pole with the genoa. And, sometimes we change sails, no furler. 



The boat does well on reaches only if you sheet the genoa to the rail or 
further out with a barber hauler device – I have inboard adjustable genoa 
tracks. 



It helps a lot to have some under 60 folks aboard – young and strong is great 
when hauling in the genoa – it is big. 



And…. Everybody will tell you – good sails, clean bottom, skilled crew and the 
30 will do well in either fleet. 



Gary 

#593 




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 12:49 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 





Hi All, 





I'd welcome any opinions you might like to share on racing a 30-1. As mentioned 
in the other thread on handicapping JAM boats, I have a choice of racing my 
(new to me) 30-1 in a spinnaker boat division or a non-spinnaker boat division 
(my boat is rigged for spinnaker). We have ten-week series in my club, and I'd 
have to stay in one division for a whole series (but could switch divisions 
between series). We also have occasional one and two-day weekend races in which 
I'd have to choose a division. 





>From what I see in 
>http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf
> , it looks like a 30-1 usually gets a PHRF rating of 174, which would be the 
>third-lowest rating in my club. We've got a Capri-25 at 173, and an F-240s at 
>170. 





One of my questions is how many crew are advisable for racing a 30-1, with 
spinnaker or without. On smaller boats (Capri-22s, J/22s, Merit 25s) we'd race 
and fly spinnaker with three crew - helm, trimmer, and foredeck. A fourth could 
come in handy in heavy air. I've gotten a couple indications that I should have 
maybe twice that number for a 30-1. What are the typical crew positions on a 
30-1? If it makes any difference, my spinnakers have dousing socks. 





I race on a lake in Colorado. The spinnaker division courses are upwind / 
downwind, and the non-spinnaker division courses are triangles. We generally 
try to set courses so that races last 60-90 minutes. Weather-wise we have 
varied conditions from night to night. Some nights are frickin' gusty, with 
Colorado afternoon and evening thunderstorms. Som

Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

You're right Martin. The PO explained it to me at the survey, but neither of us 
understood it very well :) I'll look for an attachment for it near the mast 
base. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Martin DeYoung via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Martin DeYoung"  
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:05:07 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 



> My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like 
> a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. 



That is likely a Reaching Strut used when close reaching with a spinnaker to 
force the After Guy (connects the spinnaker to the pole and pulls the pole aft) 
away from the side of the boat to improve the guy’s ability to pull the pole 
off the forestay. 



One end of the reaching strut likely attaches near the base of the mast, the 
other holds the guy similar to the pole end. On Calypso I tie the reaching 
strut to the shrouds and toe rail to keep it from sliding aft of raising up. 



On the 43 with its highly loaded sheets/guys I strongly recommend crew keep 
well clear of the reaching strut when we have her rail down and fully loaded. 
One race a crew decided my recommendations did not apply to him when taking 
pictures with his phone. The sail tie used to hold the reaching strut down 
close to the life lines failed and the strut popped up quickly hitting his 
hand. It scared the sh*t out of him but did no damage beyond a good thump. He 
was not invited back. 




Martin DeYoung 

Calypso 

1971 C&C 43 

Seattle 







From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:47 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 





Thanks Gary, this is very helpful. Couple details about my boat that affect 
crew positions / responsibilities: tiller steering, traveler aft on transom, 
halyards not led aft, no headsail furler. 





So the full complement would be driver, mainsail trimmer, two headsail 
trimmers, mast person, and bow person. If shorthanded the driver could trim the 
main, and the bow person could double as a headsail trimmer. But probably need 
four minimum (driver, trimmer, mast, bow) to fly the chute, and more is better 
as the air gets heavier. 





Thanks for the tip about the barber hauler on reaches. My boat has a very short 
(two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like a spin pole - I wonder if 
that's what it's for. 





After getting your comments, and Mike's (Persistence, Halifax), I'll probably 
race in B division (JAM) in the spring series so my crew and I can get used to 
the boat and practice with the spinnaker outside of racing, then switch to A 
division (spinnaker) for the summer series. 





Much appreciated. 





Cheers, 
Randy 

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Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I'm probably not remembering the length correctly. I'd never seen a reaching 
strut before and didn't know what it was when I saw it at the survey. To me it 
looked like a short spin pole. It was short enough to fit in the lazarette of a 
30-1. I'm towing the boat from its current location to my lake in two weeks, so 
I'll get another look at it then. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Gary Nylander"  
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:39:06 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 



If it is really only a couple of feet long, it may not attach to the mast. Our 
PHRF rules say that any strut which holds a sail must attach there, but I don’t 
know about one which is only controlling a sheet and would never touch the 
sail. ??? On our 30, we don’t use separate guys, just two sheets off the chute, 
one becomes the foreguy and the other is the aft. We end-for-end the pole. I 
use the twings (tweakers) to control the ‘guy’ sheet. 



Gary 




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 3:36 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 





You're right Martin. The PO explained it to me at the survey, but neither of us 
understood it very well :) I'll look for an attachment for it near the mast 
base. 





Cheers, 


Randy 



- Original Message -



From: "Martin DeYoung via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Martin DeYoung" < mdeyo...@deyoungmfg.com > 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 1:05:07 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 





> My boat has a very short (two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like 
> a spin pole - I wonder if that's what it's for. 



That is likely a Reaching Strut used when close reaching with a spinnaker to 
force the After Guy (connects the spinnaker to the pole and pulls the pole aft) 
away from the side of the boat to improve the guy’s ability to pull the pole 
off the forestay. 



One end of the reaching strut likely attaches near the base of the mast, the 
other holds the guy similar to the pole end. On Calypso I tie the reaching 
strut to the shrouds and toe rail to keep it from sliding aft of raising up. 



On the 43 with its highly loaded sheets/guys I strongly recommend crew keep 
well clear of the reaching strut when we have her rail down and fully loaded. 
One race a crew decided my recommendations did not apply to him when taking 
pictures with his phone. The sail tie used to hold the reaching strut down 
close to the life lines failed and the strut popped up quickly hitting his 
hand. It scared the sh*t out of him but did no damage beyond a good thump. He 
was not invited back. 




Martin DeYoung 

Calypso 

1971 C&C 43 

Seattle 







From: CnC-List [ mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com ] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 11:47 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Racing a 30-1 





Thanks Gary, this is very helpful. Couple details about my boat that affect 
crew positions / responsibilities: tiller steering, traveler aft on transom, 
halyards not led aft, no headsail furler. 





So the full complement would be driver, mainsail trimmer, two headsail 
trimmers, mast person, and bow person. If shorthanded the driver could trim the 
main, and the bow person could double as a headsail trimmer. But probably need 
four minimum (driver, trimmer, mast, bow) to fly the chute, and more is better 
as the air gets heavier. 





Thanks for the tip about the barber hauler on reaches. My boat has a very short 
(two feet) aluminum pole with jaws on each end like a spin pole - I wonder if 
that's what it's for. 





After getting your comments, and Mike's (Persistence, Halifax), I'll probably 
race in B division (JAM) in the spring series so my crew and I can get used to 
the boat and practice with the spinnaker outside of racing, then switch to A 
division (spinnaker) for the summer series. 





Much appreciated. 





Cheers, 
Randy 



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Re: Stus-List List Management

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Seconded. Very valuable resource. Thanks for everything Stu. 

Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "David Miles via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "David Miles"  
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2016 12:22:28 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List List Management 



Thx Stu. 

Appreciate your work and the effort you put in. I find this VERY helpful as a 
new C&C owner. 

I the people have been great and very helpful too. Great group. 




Best regards, 



David Miles 

Impule 

1988 C&C30-2 






From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stu via 
CnC-List 
Sent: March-18-16 11:13 AM 
To: C&C Email List 
Cc: Stu 
Subject: Stus-List List Management 





I did not realize how many people were getting the postings in Digest Format 
until I checked the subscribers’ list. There are quite a few and many of them 
are using Yahoo, Hotmail and Gmail email addresses. 





Maybe part of the problems with Gmail are that when replying to a message, it 
does not appear that you can trim the message or change the subject line. 





After a bit of searching, I found the solution: 


· Log in to Google Mail using your username and password. 

· Click the mail conversation you want to reply to with an edited subject or to 
trim the message. 

· In the textbox with the message “Click here to Reply or Forward,” click 
“Reply.” 

· To the left of the name of the person you are replying to, click the dropdown 
arrow. A pop-up menu appears. 

· From the pop-up menu, click “Edit subject.” Gmail’s new compose/reply window 
will appear for you to type your reply. 

· To edit the subject, click the cursor into the subject field and make the 
desired changes. 





I don’t know if Yahoo and Hotmail are the same or not. 





There could be other web-based email programs that prevent changing the subject 
line or trimming messages. Maybe one of our members can help out there. 





I can’t change much in the list mailing software, but I have made some changes: 


a) digests will be smaller is size – so you might get more than 1 a day 
depending on traffic on the list 


b) the actual size of messages to be sent has been decreased. So if you do not 
trim your messages, they may get rejected. 





In a previous message, some one asked “Who cares?”. The answer is ME! I 
own, maintain and pay for the list. So, when you are in my playground, you play 
by my rules. 





Stu 




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Re: Stus-List Teak and Holly Floor

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

That's beautiful. Nice work Eric, and thanks for sharing Erik and Stu. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Stu via CnC-List"  
To: "C&C Email List"  
Cc: "Stu"  
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2016 7:52:52 AM 
Subject: Stus-List Teak and Holly Floor 

Eric Dinn has provided a very good sequence of photos of his teak and holly 
floor installation. 
The installation was done on Arbutus, a 1974 C&C 30 MK I, out of Comox, BC, 
Canada. 
It’s on the Photo Album at: 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/teak_holly_floor/ 
Stu 

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Re: Stus-List Running lines aft to cockpit on C&C 34

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Good tip on the starboard jib & spin halyard mast exits, Dennis. I'd like to do 
that on my 30-1 for racing. What's involved in swapping halyards inside the 
mast? My mast is down right now, if that makes the job easier. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List"  
To: "CnClist"  
Cc: "Dennis C."  
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2016 10:05:59 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Running lines aft to cockpit on C&C 34 

Andrew, 

You'll get a lot of info. There are many ways to configure running lines aft. 
Most are not model specific. 

I raced for years before I bought my 35-1. I had a good idea of what worked 
well and what didn't. 

First, I like the triple clutch decision. I have 2 Lewmar triple clutches on 
Touche'. Lewmar is the best. In my opinion, it's the only clutch that will 
release reliably under load. It's also the easiest on line covers. Reliable 
releasing under load can be critical many times. That's one reason my vang is 
run aft to a Lewmar clutch. A sudden puff on a closed top main can result in a 
broach. 

I will send you pics and more info off list. 

First, don't be bound by the existing mast exit configuration. You can swap 
halyards inside the mast. For instance, many racing boats have the jib halyard 
and the spinnaker halyard on the starboard side. Racers do this because most 
mark roundings are to port and such a configuration puts the mast man on the 
high side of the boat for hoisting. This, in turn, often relegates the main 
halyard to the port side. 

Some folks like jib halyards on opposite sides of the boat, some folks like 
them side by side. Some leave one on the mast and run one aft. 

Collect all the ideas and opinions, give them some thought. Walk piers and look 
at different boats. Racers will do things differently than cruisers. 

Don't be bashful about asking more questions here. 

Dennis C. 
Touche' 35-1 #83 
Mandeville, LA 

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Re: Stus-List Rolly Tasker Sails now sun cover

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

There was a sleeve on the Capri-22 I helmed last year. It didn't have those 
shoelaces running up it to tighten it up, and would flail so badly on a windy 
night in the marina that the whole rig would shake to the point where we 
worried about something breaking. We finally hit upon the solution of just 
twisting it around the furled genoa a lot, as we hoisted and zipped the sleeve. 
That took all the slack out, and took care of all the flapping and shaking. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "William Walker via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: wwadjo...@aol.com 
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 4:49:11 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Rolly Tasker Sails now sun cover 



Have you been in a marina with one of the sleeves on the boat next door in 20 
knows of wind? I have. Think flag. 
Bill Walker 
CnC 36 

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail 


On Monday, March 28, 2016 Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 
Just to make it a little more interesting.. 

With my (new to me) racing headsails This what I'm going with: 
http://www.atninc.com/atn-genoa-sleeve-sailing-equipment.shtml 

With the Genoa Sleeve way you have complete protection from sun / rain / pollen 
/ whatever for no matter what sail happens to to be on the furler. ATN's sleeve 
is a bit pricey but it seems to be the way to go. 

Added weight to the sail(s) = 0 

it's a little more hassle to hoist but this way I feel the sails are better 
protected and I don't have to do anything to the sails. 


-Francois Rivard 
1990 34+ "Take Five" 
Lake Lanier, GA 




John ? that was my thinking, too; and the sail is only on the fuller for about 
five months a year up here. 

Decisions, decisions? 

? Fred 

Fred Street -- Minneapolis 
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( 

> On Mar 27, 2016, at 10:54 AM, John Pennie via CnC-List < 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 
> 
> Pretty much mirrors everything I?ve heard on the subject. With that said, I 
> went with Dacron. It is noticeable in light air. 
> 
> John 
> 
>> On Mar 27, 2016, at 11:45 AM, Rick Brass via CnC-List < 
>> cnc-list@cnc-list.com < mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com >> wrote: 
>> 
>> I had a preliminary conversation with my local sailmaker about a new suit of 
>> sails for Imzadi. He was also very down on using a Dacron sun cover for the 
>> headsail. His opinion was that they are typically good for 5-6 years or 
>> less, and better suited to use on sails used for club racing and not left 
>> for long term on the furler. He said Sunberlla is heavier, stiffer, and more 
>> expensive (which increases initial cost of the sail and slightly decreases 
>> performance), but very much more durable (and a better value in the long run 
>> if you are a cruiser). 
>> 
>> Rick Brass 
>> Washington, N 
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Re: Stus-List Hull color inquiry

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

That's one reason I named mine Grenadine :) Two POs ago she was named Ruby, for 
the same reason I presume. Couple photos at 
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/asutgi5qq1r05jh/AAA_bb3wRwcat5NlJpecNhY7a?dl=0 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Ronald B. Frerker"  
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 10:52:30 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hull color inquiry 

Aye! 
Ron 
Wild Cheri 
C&C 30-1 
STL 




From: Dennis C. via CnC-List  
To: CnClist  
Cc: Dennis C.  
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2016 10:08 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Hull color inquiry 

Blasphemy! C&C's should be RED :) 

Dennis C. 
Touche' 35-1 #83 
Mandeville, LA 

On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Richard N. Bush via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 



Dave's post reminded me...I am going to be in a situation where most or all of 
my hull may need repainting; (blemishes on hull from dock piling); so I began 
looking at other boats for ideas; I have always been enamored with the dark 
hulls, especially the Flag Blue ones like Dave Risch's boat; however, I have 
been warned by the local "experts" that they are difficult to maintain and show 
scratches way more than the lighter colors; also , that they are hotter in the 
summer...; so my question to those of you with darker hulls...how much of the 
above is true? Would you go back with a darker color if you had the chance? Any 
other factors I am missing? Many thanks as always 

Richard 

Richard N. Bush Law Offices 
2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine 
Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
502-584-7255 


-Original Message- 
From: David via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
To: CNC CNC < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
Cc: David < davidrisc...@msn.com > 
Sent: Mon, Mar 28, 2016 9:48 am 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Auto pilot installation 

Same here. Never had a need to change. 

David F. Risch 
1981 40-2 
(401) 419-4650 (cell) 




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Re: Stus-List Lake Michigan CnC Rendezvous

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I could throw a C&C Rendezvous here in Colorado, but I suspect mine is the only 
C&C in the state :) 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
SV Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "wwadjo...@aol.com via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "wwadjourn"  
Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2016 6:02:55 AM 
Subject: Stus-List Lake Michigan CnC Rendezvous 



Any Lake Michigan listers interested in a LM meet up? Pentwater Mi Would be 
central. So would Wisconsin shore. Just sayin' we can't let the coasters have 
all the fun! 

Bill Walker 

Evening Star 

CnC 36 

Pentwater, Mi. 


Sent from my LG G Pad F™ 8.0, an AT&T 4G LTE tablet 

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Stus-List Gate Valves

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Listers- 

My 30-1 has gate valves at the cockpit drain through-hulls. Don Casey writes 
that gate valves are inherently unsafe and must not be substituted for 
seacocks. Any opinions on this issue? 

While I'm at it, Casey also writes that plastic (Marelon) through-hulls should 
not be mixed with bronze nuts and seacocks, which my boat does. He writes only 
plastic nuts and seacocks should be used with plastic through-hulls. Thoughts 
on that one? 

Thanks, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 
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Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Listers- 

Since the mast is down on my early (hull #7) 30-1, I removed the mast step to 
inspect beneath. The aluminum step is screwed onto a heavily sealed wood block 
~12"x6"x2", which is in turn screwed onto two short timbers running athwartship 
which I'm sure are intended to take the load of the mast and transfer it to the 
hull. Those two timbers have been wet and appear to be a rot risk. The PO 
fitted a heavily sealed wood wedge down into that lowest part of the bilge 
between the floor timbers, to further support the block under the mast step. 

My concern is that the wedge will transfer load from the mast onto the top of 
the keel instead of to the hull via the floor timbers, and thereby contribute 
to separation of the lead ballast part of the keel from the fiberglass keel 
stub i.e. the "C&C smile". Do you think this is a legitimate concern? Any 
thoughts on how to otherwise reinforce the floor timbers or distribute the mast 
load to the hull? 

Also that wedge was sitting in bilge water because the automatic bilge pump 
float switch is a bit aft and a bit higher. Both the automatic and manual bilge 
pump intake tubes are down there in that lowest part of the bilge, but the 
manual pump must be more effective at removing that water because of the float 
switch location. 

Thanks in advance for any comments. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 
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Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Gary. I had read about this issue in 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/reviews/review30mk1.htm before I bought my boat. 
But I didn't know for certain whether it affected my particular boat until I 
was able to remove the mast step and inspect. When I surveyed the boat, the rig 
was up, so I couldn't check it then. I knew the PO had done some kind of 
reinforcement there, but I didn't know it was a wedge sitting atop the keel. 
I'll have a look at the list archives on this issue and maybe implement a 
different fix next off-season (I'm not sure I'm a fan of the wedge). Meanwhile 
I'll monitor for downward deflection this season, and use the manual bilge pump 
every visit. I'm only 20 minutes away from the boat and will be down there at 
least twice a week all season, and can go down specially after big rains. 

Thanks Again, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Gary Nylander"  
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 11:49:44 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 



Randy, you have stumbled onto the major flaw in the construction on the 30-1. 
There have been many discussions on this site about the mast step. Some owners 
have filled this low part of the sump with fiberglass, others (me and….) have 
strengthened or replaced those cross supports. The big flaw is when they built 
the boat, they did not seal the bottom of those supports, so they have been 
sucking up any bilge water which gets that high (easy) and rotting. The other 
issue, as you have found, is the location of the bilge pump down in the low 
part of the sump. A decent sized one won’t fit. One with a remote switch won’t 
fit. 



So, the first issue is to find a pump which will go down that low. I am using a 
small Rule pump, directly wired to a switch on the DC panel. That way, I can 
get almost all the water out. Fortunately I live close to the boat, so can go 
down there and pump after each rain. 



I drilled a bunch of holes in the cross members and filled them with G-Flex, 
and then built the tops up to make them all level. Others have cut them out and 
replaced them with new and/or fiberglass ones. If you leave them as is, you 
will eventually have a sinking mast – mine was down about half an inch. 



Another way to keep that area dry is to get a pump with an inlet hose and which 
is self-priming. 



Contact me offline for more discussion, but look through the archives, there 
have been many discussions. 



Gary 

30-1 #593 

gnylan...@atlanticbb.net 




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 1:13 PM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 





Listers- 





Since the mast is down on my early (hull #7) 30-1, I removed the mast step to 
inspect beneath. The aluminum step is screwed onto a heavily sealed wood block 
~12"x6"x2", which is in turn screwed onto two short timbers running athwartship 
which I'm sure are intended to take the load of the mast and transfer it to the 
hull. Those two timbers have been wet and appear to be a rot risk. The PO 
fitted a heavily sealed wood wedge down into that lowest part of the bilge 
between the floor timbers, to further support the block under the mast step. 





My concern is that the wedge will transfer load from the mast onto the top of 
the keel instead of to the hull via the floor timbers, and thereby contribute 
to separation of the lead ballast part of the keel from the fiberglass keel 
stub i.e. the "C&C smile". Do you think this is a legitimate concern? Any 
thoughts on how to otherwise reinforce the floor timbers or distribute the mast 
load to the hull? 





Also that wedge was sitting in bilge water because the automatic bilge pump 
float switch is a bit aft and a bit higher. Both the automatic and manual bilge 
pump intake tubes are down there in that lowest part of the bilge, but the 
manual pump must be more effective at removing that water because of the float 
switch location. 





Thanks in advance for any comments. 





Cheers, 


Randy Stafford 


S/V Grenadine 


C&C 30-1 #7 


Ken Caryl, CO 

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Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Ed. The story at 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/maststep/maststep.htm is informative. 
Someone who owned the boat before me had already cut a rectangular hole in the 
cabin sole next to forward port dinette bench, and fashioned a thick wood block 
to fill the hole and span the two cross supports. They just didn't go so far as 
to rebuild the cross supports. The above story looks like a reasonable way to 
do it. 

So when your step failed, what happened? Did those timbers, and the floor pan, 
just break, causing your mast to drop 6-9"? 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Edward Levert via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Edward Levert"  
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 1:57:05 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 

Randy: 

Check the "Do it yourself" section of the Photo Album for a description and a 
photograph of the repair. My C&C 30 Mk 1, Hull 19(?) had the step fail on the 
1st sail. I was in Mobile Bay at the time of failure and had the step rebuilt 
by a professional who was the Boatwright for the US Olympic teams in China and 
England. The rebuilt the step is similar to the description in the Photo Album, 
differing by filling in the gaps between the cross supports with epoxy/filler. 
Total cost in 2006 was about $1200 plus the cost of mast unstopping/ stepping. 
The repair required cutting out part of the cabin floor pan to allow access to 
glass in the new supports. 

Ed 
Briar Patch, C&C 34 
New Orleans, La. 

On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 12:13 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 



Listers- 

Since the mast is down on my early (hull #7) 30-1, I removed the mast step to 
inspect beneath. The aluminum step is screwed onto a heavily sealed wood block 
~12"x6"x2", which is in turn screwed onto two short timbers running athwartship 
which I'm sure are intended to take the load of the mast and transfer it to the 
hull. Those two timbers have been wet and appear to be a rot risk. The PO 
fitted a heavily sealed wood wedge down into that lowest part of the bilge 
between the floor timbers, to further support the block under the mast step. 

My concern is that the wedge will transfer load from the mast onto the top of 
the keel instead of to the hull via the floor timbers, and thereby contribute 
to separation of the lead ballast part of the keel from the fiberglass keel 
stub i.e. the "C&C smile". Do you think this is a legitimate concern? Any 
thoughts on how to otherwise reinforce the floor timbers or distribute the mast 
load to the hull? 

Also that wedge was sitting in bilge water because the automatic bilge pump 
float switch is a bit aft and a bit higher. Both the automatic and manual bilge 
pump intake tubes are down there in that lowest part of the bilge, but the 
manual pump must be more effective at removing that water because of the float 
switch location. 

Thanks in advance for any comments. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

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Re: Stus-List Gate Valves

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Joe, that's good news on both counts. On my boat the PO re-bedded all 
valved through hulls four years ago, but left the gate valves on the cockpit 
drains. The through hull for the vanity sink drain / head water intake, and the 
through hull for the engine cooling water intake, already have seacocks on my 
boat. I'll put replacing those gate valves on my project list. :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Joe at Zialater via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Joe at Zialater"  
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 1:51:02 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Gate Valves 

Hi Randy, 

I replaced the old gate valves on my 30-1 this winter. While trying to 
unscrew them, I ended up spinning the actual thru-hull so I replaced those 
as well. I had a devil of a time finding the replacements since on my boat 
#305, they were flush to the hull. I found some flush thru hulls that had a 
slightly smaller flange diameter than the originals and just filled in the 
extra space with some epoxy filler. Both gate valves in the cockpit were 
failing as well as the one in the head. I wasn't as big a job as I had 
feared and it sure feels good to have them up to snuff now. 

BTW, I also did the mast foot repair a few years ago. The worst part of 
that was taking out the mast - but the repair was easy and relatively cheap 
and should last another 40 years. 

Cheers, 

Joe Boyle 
Zia 
** 



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Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Peter. Does a gap between the bulkhead and cabin sole pan necessarily 
represent a problem? On my boat there's a gap of < 1/2" on each side. There's 
also some creaking noise from the sole pan in the head / V-berth area when I 
walk on it which makes me think the fiberglass of the sole pan has broken down 
some. But according to Don Casey's inspection procedures and advice (plus a 
professional survey), the hull is in good shape, and the boat is 44 years 
old... 

Thanks, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Peter Fell"  
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 12:44:27 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 

Check the whole area of the bulkhead. We had a 30-1 surveyed that turned out to 
have a sinking mast step and also potentially other issues so that the bulkhead 
had pulled up out of the cabin sole pan (or the pan had dropped / distorted) by 
about 1-inch on the port side and to a lesser extend on the starboard. Probably 
a combination of mast step, mast brackets, shroud tension (and possibly a 
couple long-distance overland moves that the boat had undertaken). 
The yard quoted well over $7000 to fix. 
There is some info / pics of solutions applied to the mast step on the 
cncphotoalbum site under do-it-yourself  for a much more cost-effective 
fix. 
Peter Fell 
Sidney, BC 
Cygnet 
C&C 27 MkIII 

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Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Peter. I looked again tonight at the "gap" between bulkhead and floor 
pan on my boat. There's actually no gap, except at the lower inboard corners of 
the bulkhead where the door to the head is cut out of the bulkhead. In those 
corners there's a gap about a half-inch high and a half inch wide, on both 
sides. Just enough for the edge of a 2'x4' oval throw rug in the head / v-berth 
to squeeze under. Other than that the bulkhead butts up nicely to the floor 
pan, hull, deck, cabin top etc. all the way around. Everything is symmetric and 
looks undamaged. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Peter Fell"  
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 5:44:45 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 

Forgot to include the list in the ‘to’ 
From: Peter Fell 
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:43 PM 
To: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 
That was about 4 years ago and I don’t recall all the fine details of all the 
discussions I had on the subject. There’s probably some stuff in the archives 
on it. If I recall correctly the gap was large on the port side and pretty-much 
non-existent on the starboard side and the mast step (or the pan) was canted 
off-level. The survey we had done suggested that the rig be de-tensioned to see 
if the bulkhead came back down. But the surveyor I must admit seemed somewhat 
baffled by it all. 
In the end we didn’t de-tension the rig as things started to degrade once the 
owner, through the broker, had me talk to a ‘C&C expert’ who swore up and down 
that C&C NEVER used untreated / unsealed plywood in the mast steps of 30-1’s. I 
think the were multiple things happening here  as I said, a mast step well 
on its way to collapsing, cabin sole pan in that area warping, rig tension and 
I also suspect that the mast brackets and/or the mast through-holes they were 
attached to were stretched-out, causing the cabin-top to pull-up under halyard 
tension at the turning blocks. 
There were some other less-than-forthcoming responses from the owner and in the 
end we decided to walk on the deal. 
So I’m assuming here you still have a gap with the mast out of the boat and I’m 
also assuming the boat is on the hard at this time and that bulkhead is being 
used for the support pads? Given there is a gap there, things have moved. Might 
be hard to line everything back up unless the boat was in the water but I would 
also think there’d be some ‘memory’ involved there as well. But I would suspect 
a 1/2-inch gap is probably in the ‘monitor it’ range. 
Peter Fell 
Sidney, BC 
Cygnet 
C&C 27 MkIII 
From: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 2:57 PM 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Peter Fell 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 
Thanks Peter. Does a gap between the bulkhead and cabin sole pan necessarily 
represent a problem? On my boat there's a gap of < 1/2" on each side. There's 
also some creaking noise from the sole pan in the head / V-berth area when I 
walk on it which makes me think the fiberglass of the sole pan has broken down 
some. But according to Don Casey's inspection procedures and advice (plus a 
professional survey), the hull is in good shape, and the boat is 44 years 
old... 
Thanks, 
Randy 
- Original Message -

From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Peter Fell"  
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 12:44:27 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 
Check the whole area of the bulkhead. We had a 30-1 surveyed that turned out to 
have a sinking mast step and also potentially other issues so that the bulkhead 
had pulled up out of the cabin sole pan (or the pan had dropped / distorted) by 
about 1-inch on the port side and to a lesser extend on the starboard. Probably 
a combination of mast step, mast brackets, shroud tension (and possibly a 
couple long-distance overland moves that the boat had undertaken). 
The yard quoted well over $7000 to fix. 
There is some info / pics of solutions applied to the mast step on the 
cncphotoalbum site under do-it-yourself  for a much more cost-effective 
fix. 
Peter Fell 
Sidney, BC 
Cygnet 
C&C 27 MkIII 

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Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Oh yeah. Couple things out of true there :) Fortunately my bulkhead and mast 
step do not look like that. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Peter Fell"  
To: "randy stafford" , "cnc-list" 
 
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2016 2:31:07 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 

Here’s a couple pictures of the one we looked at. The port-side bulkhead shot 
is a deceiving photo – you don’t get the full effect. But although I said 
1-inch before ... looking at the survey it was measured at 3/4-inch. You can 
also see how the mast step block was shifted, in the other photo. 
I should point out as well this boat had evidence of re-tabbing of the forward 
bulkheads in several areas both port and starboard. Perhaps another issue was 
they didn’t get things lined-up properly when they did it ... why they did it I 
don’t exactly know. I did discover the boat had been transported from Vancouver 
BC to Yellowknife, NT and (of course) back again. There’s a large chunk of that 
road that isn’t even paved. Draw your own conclusions! 
... now someone’s going to look at those photos and say ‘Hey, wait a minute ... 
I bought that boat!’ 
Peter Fell 
Sidney, BC 
Cygnet 
C&C 27 MkIII 
From: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 8:54 PM 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Fell, Peter 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 
Thanks Peter. I looked again tonight at the "gap" between bulkhead and floor 
pan on my boat. There's actually no gap, except at the lower inboard corners of 
the bulkhead where the door to the head is cut out of the bulkhead. In those 
corners there's a gap about a half-inch high and a half inch wide, on both 
sides. Just enough for the edge of a 2'x4' oval throw rug in the head / v-berth 
to squeeze under. Other than that the bulkhead butts up nicely to the floor 
pan, hull, deck, cabin top etc. all the way around. Everything is symmetric and 
looks undamaged. 
Cheers, 
Randy 
- Original Message -

From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Peter Fell"  
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 5:44:45 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 
Forgot to include the list in the ‘to’ 
From: Peter Fell 
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 4:43 PM 
To: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 
That was about 4 years ago and I don’t recall all the fine details of all the 
discussions I had on the subject. There’s probably some stuff in the archives 
on it. If I recall correctly the gap was large on the port side and pretty-much 
non-existent on the starboard side and the mast step (or the pan) was canted 
off-level. The survey we had done suggested that the rig be de-tensioned to see 
if the bulkhead came back down. But the surveyor I must admit seemed somewhat 
baffled by it all. 
In the end we didn’t de-tension the rig as things started to degrade once the 
owner, through the broker, had me talk to a ‘C&C expert’ who swore up and down 
that C&C NEVER used untreated / unsealed plywood in the mast steps of 30-1’s. I 
think the were multiple things happening here  as I said, a mast step well 
on its way to collapsing, cabin sole pan in that area warping, rig tension and 
I also suspect that the mast brackets and/or the mast through-holes they were 
attached to were stretched-out, causing the cabin-top to pull-up under halyard 
tension at the turning blocks. 
There were some other less-than-forthcoming responses from the owner and in the 
end we decided to walk on the deal. 
So I’m assuming here you still have a gap with the mast out of the boat and I’m 
also assuming the boat is on the hard at this time and that bulkhead is being 
used for the support pads? Given there is a gap there, things have moved. Might 
be hard to line everything back up unless the boat was in the water but I would 
also think there’d be some ‘memory’ involved there as well. But I would suspect 
a 1/2-inch gap is probably in the ‘monitor it’ range. 
Peter Fell 
Sidney, BC 
Cygnet 
C&C 27 MkIII 
From: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 2:57 PM 
To: cnc-list 
Cc: Peter Fell 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 
Thanks Peter. Does a gap between the bulkhead and cabin sole pan necessarily 
represent a problem? On my boat there's a gap of < 1/2" on each side. There's 
also some creaking noise from the sole pan in the head / V-berth area when I 
walk on it which makes me think the fiberglass of the sole pan has broken down 
some. But according to Don Casey's inspection procedures and advice (plus a 
professional survey), the hull is in good shape, and the boat is 44 years 
old... 
Thanks, 
Randy 
- Original Message -

From: "Peter Fell via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Peter Fell"  
Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 12:44:27 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Timbers Beneath Mast Step 
Check the whole area of the bulkhead. We had a 30-1 surveyed that turned out to 
have a sinking mast step and also potentially other i

Stus-List 30-1 Headsail Sheeting

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

30-1 Listers- 

If you could give me some tips on how you run your headsail sheets, I'd 
appreciate it. My new-to-me 30-1 has what I assume are the standard genoa car 
tracks, short and located well aft, outboard of the cockpit coamings. In the 
documents that came with the boat I found some notes from a previous owner 
saying the following: 

* 170% genoa sheets run through the car at aft end of track 
* 150% genoa sheets run through the car at forward end of track 
* 130% genoa sheets run through block on rail forward of lifeline gate brace 
* 110% genoa sheets run through block on rail well forward 

Is that how you all run your sheets? When if ever do you even use your 170% 
genoa? 

Note I'm familiar with adjusting fore and aft car / block location to adjust 
sail shape for conditions, etc. I'm looking for the starting points for running 
the sheets for different headsails. 

Thanks, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 
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Stus-List Head Plumbing

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Listers- 

If you'll humor me again, I'd like to get your comments on how the head on my 
boat (30-1 #7) is currently plumbed. 

The intake hose is teed into the vanity sink drain to its through hull. The 
discharge hose goes to a holding tank only (no Y-valve for overboard 
discharge). 

It's the intake hose I'm wondering about. I suppose with the vanity sink drain 
through-hull seacock closed, e.g. when underway, I could pump fresh water into 
the head by first pumping it into the vanity sink and letting the sink drain. 
When not underway, with the vanity sink drain through-hull seacock open, I 
could pump raw water into the head. 

Does that sound reasonable, or is my boat's head intake plumbing screwy? 

Thanks, 
Randy 
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Re: Stus-List Head Plumbing

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Rick, 

If it's not necessary to close the sink drain seacock when under way, then I 
guess I don't have to. I just assumed it was a good idea in case at high 
heel/roll angles or when pitching raw water would back into the sink (I saw 
that happen on a Merit 25 once). I'll check whether my boat has a shutoff valve 
near the head. The head does have the flush / wet lever of course. Thanks all 
for the responses. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Rick Brass via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Rick Brass"  
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 9:49:13 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Head Plumbing 



Your head inlet teed to the sink drain is exactly the way my 38 is plumbed. I 
think that arrangement was pretty common in the 70s. 



My question is why you would close the sink drain seacock when under weigh. 



I have a shut off valve in the inlet line between the seacock and the head that 
is near the head, and the lever on the head that is marked “Flush” and “Dry” is 
always left on “Dry” – and either of these should prevent inlet water from 
siphoning into the head when the boat is heeled while sailing. Is your boat 
plumbed with a shutoff valve near the head? 



Personally, I close all my seacocks a couple of times a year to make sure they 
are moving freely and they remain open the rest of the time; though I know 
there are some on the list who close all the thru hulls when they leave the 
boat for a week or two as insurance against a hose leak. 



Rick Brass 






From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:04 PM 
To: cnc-list  
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Stus-List Head Plumbing 





Listers- 





If you'll humor me again, I'd like to get your comments on how the head on my 
boat (30-1 #7) is currently plumbed. 





The intake hose is teed into the vanity sink drain to its through hull. The 
discharge hose goes to a holding tank only (no Y-valve for overboard 
discharge). 





It's the intake hose I'm wondering about. I suppose with the vanity sink drain 
through-hull seacock closed, e.g. when underway, I could pump fresh water into 
the head by first pumping it into the vanity sink and letting the sink drain. 
When not underway, with the vanity sink drain through-hull seacock open, I 
could pump raw water into the head. 





Does that sound reasonable, or is my boat's head intake plumbing screwy? 





Thanks, 


Randy 

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Re: Stus-List 35-1 refrigeration installed completed - pics

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I particularly enjoyed the shot of the gator in the bayou. :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Josh Muckley via CnC-List"  
To: "C&C List"  
Cc: "Josh Muckley"  
Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2016 10:30:27 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 35-1 refrigeration installed completed - pics 



Congratulations on successfully sharing pictures! Oh and congratulations on 
having cold beer! 

Josh Muckley 
S/V Sea Hawk 
1989 C&C 37+ 
Solomons, MD 
On Apr 19, 2016 10:05 AM, "Dennis C. via CnC-List" < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
wrote: 



OK, 

I'm still new at sharing via drive but try this link: 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B_sb5TfIENvsVnpsaWp0SldMOUk 

I have another Drive folder with 80 pictures of the project. Figured that was 
too many for most. This abridged folder contains most of what the project 
involved. 

One thing I haven't completed is insulating the ice box lid and under the 
counter-top. The 35-1 lid and counter-top are just plywood. I'm adding an inch 
and a half or so insulation to the bottom of each. 

The counter-top insulation will simply be pour foam. I'll make a cardboard form 
and pour the foam into it. I'll just trim it to size and stick it under the 
countertop with 5200. 

The lid insulation is more involved. I bought a cheap baking pan, coated it 
with mold release compound and made a fiberglass shell. After a bit of 
manipulation and painting, I'll glue it to the bottom of the lid, run a bead of 
paintable sealant around the edge, paint it and use it. Pics of that 
sub-project are in the folder. Look for pics with "Lid" in the name. 

The only change I would have made might have been to install the compressor 
athwartships to save about 6 inches of the shelf in the cockpit locker. 
Otherwise, I'm pretty pleased with the project. 

Dennis C. 
Touche' 35-1 #83 
Mandeville, LA 

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Stus-List Removing Cabin-Top Handrails

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Listers- 

My next project is to refinish and re-bed the teak hand rails on the cabin top 
of my boat. Any tips on how to remove them? I believe there are screws covered 
by bungs from the interior hand rails to the exterior hand rails aft of the 
bulkhead separating the salon from the head. But how are the exterior handrails 
fastened forward of that bulkhead? (the exterior hand rails extend farther 
forward than the interior ones). 

I need to remove them in order to re-bed them, as I've got a leak from the port 
aft screw hole onto my ice box lid and galley countertop around it, causing 
delamination of the plywood countertop at the ice box lid cutout. 

My plan is to strip them (if necessary), sand them, and just oil them with teak 
oil, following instructions from Don Casey. If you think a sealer or varnish 
would be better, I'd be interested in hearing your opinion. 

Also, inspired by Dennis's pictures from Touche, I've posted a few pictures of 
my boat at https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTaUlpUkZJWGt5RVk . So 
far the only projects I've done are cosmetic stuff on the hull exterior: lots 
of topsides buffing and waxing, putting on my own transom decals, sanding and 
repainting the boot stripe, and spot-sanding and re-coating the bottom with 
VC-17 (plus adding a combination spare tire / carrier wheel to the trailer). 

I'd like to thank you all again for making this list such an outstanding 
resource. I'm very grateful to be able to communicate with you all. And special 
shout-out to Stu Murray for making all this possible - I just ordered five 
quantity of "Photo Album Support" from the C&C Photo Album Online Chandlery in 
appreciation. 

Cheers, 
Randy 
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Re: Stus-List Head Plumbing

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Turns out my boat does not have a shutoff valve near the head, as discussed 
below. It does, however, have a shutoff valve between the sink drain and the 
through-hull. I don't understand the point of that at all. I suppose I could 
put a shutoff valve in the head intake hose. But between the seacock, sink 
drain shutoff, and head wet / flush lever, both the sink and the head are 
double-protected already. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Randy Stafford via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "randy stafford"  
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:12:53 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Head Plumbing 

Hi Rick, 

If it's not necessary to close the sink drain seacock when under way, then I 
guess I don't have to. I just assumed it was a good idea in case at high 
heel/roll angles or when pitching raw water would back into the sink (I saw 
that happen on a Merit 25 once). I'll check whether my boat has a shutoff valve 
near the head. The head does have the flush / wet lever of course. Thanks all 
for the responses. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Rick Brass via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Rick Brass"  
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 9:49:13 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Head Plumbing 



Your head inlet teed to the sink drain is exactly the way my 38 is plumbed. I 
think that arrangement was pretty common in the 70s. 



My question is why you would close the sink drain seacock when under weigh. 



I have a shut off valve in the inlet line between the seacock and the head that 
is near the head, and the lever on the head that is marked “Flush” and “Dry” is 
always left on “Dry” – and either of these should prevent inlet water from 
siphoning into the head when the boat is heeled while sailing. Is your boat 
plumbed with a shutoff valve near the head? 



Personally, I close all my seacocks a couple of times a year to make sure they 
are moving freely and they remain open the rest of the time; though I know 
there are some on the list who close all the thru hulls when they leave the 
boat for a week or two as insurance against a hose leak. 



Rick Brass 






From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2016 11:04 PM 
To: cnc-list  
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Stus-List Head Plumbing 





Listers- 





If you'll humor me again, I'd like to get your comments on how the head on my 
boat (30-1 #7) is currently plumbed. 





The intake hose is teed into the vanity sink drain to its through hull. The 
discharge hose goes to a holding tank only (no Y-valve for overboard 
discharge). 





It's the intake hose I'm wondering about. I suppose with the vanity sink drain 
through-hull seacock closed, e.g. when underway, I could pump fresh water into 
the head by first pumping it into the vanity sink and letting the sink drain. 
When not underway, with the vanity sink drain through-hull seacock open, I 
could pump raw water into the head. 





Does that sound reasonable, or is my boat's head intake plumbing screwy? 





Thanks, 


Randy 

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Re: Stus-List 30-1 Displacement (was Re: Early 30-1 Interior Doors)

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Now that I've launched my boat and weighed my trailer empty, I conclude that my 
boat weighs ~8700 pounds with absolutely nothing aboard and empty tanks. Put 
onboard her sail inventory, ground tackle, sheets & dock lines, gas grill, 
motor oil etc., full tank of gas, and she jumps to 9200. I don't know how C&C 
computed the 8000 pounds in the brochure for a 30-1. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -----

From: "Randy Stafford via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "randy stafford"  
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 1:38:38 PM 
Subject: Stus-List 30-1 Displacement (was Re: Early 30-1 Interior Doors) 

Thanks for the displacement data Michael. 

I have HIN 30007972 - hull #7 laid up in September 1972 if I'm decoding 
correctly. 

She has tiller steering and the Atomic-4 gasoline engine, rigged for spinnaker 
(pole chocked on deck) and roller-furling boom. Two batteries, two sets of 
primary winches, two danforth anchors with chain / rope rode, fairly extensive 
sail inventory. Everything else is basic and standard, or very lightweight 
optional stuff. For racing I can remove an anchor and many of the sails, and 
sail with empty tanks, etc. 

I'll report back to the list after I've calculated her weight from truck scale 
differences between loaded & unloaded trailer. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List"  
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: "Michael Brown"  
Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2016 10:38:37 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Early 30-1 Interior Doors 

I have a C&C 30 "77" model year. 
>From my HIN ZCC304531076 I would guess it is #453 laid up October 1976. 

... 

At haulout, so no mast and most stuff removed the crane weighs me at 8500 - 
8800 lbs. 
Some of the C&C specs claimed 7,900 lbs which may have been possible stripped 
out, 
one battery and tiller steering. I think in race trim carrying stuff like 
flares, anchor and rode, 
#1 - #3 - spinnakers, spin and whisker pole  I would guess 10,000 lbs is 
reasonable. 
... 

Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C&C 30-1 



C&C Sailors- 

I noticed the owner of C&C 30 MK1 hull #1, Rick Bushie, is on this list. It's 
awesome that boat is still sailing, and that her owner is in this community. 



... 



Also, Rick, what is the displacement of your boat? Sailboat data.com and the 
brochures show 8000 pounds. But the previous owner of hull #7 thinks it's 
higher, like 10,000 pounds. I'll measure her precise displacement by 
differencing truck scale weights of loaded and unloaded trailer after I launch 
her this spring, but just wanted to check with you. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30 MK1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 




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Re: Stus-List 30-1 Displacement (was Re: Early 30-1 Interior Doors)

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Yes, the 8700 pounds includes mast, boom, spin pole, reaching strut, standing 
rigging, deck hardware, etc. My boat has two pairs of primary winches (big 
Barients) at the cockpit coamings, so the extra pair probably accounts for ~75 
pounds. 

My primary anchor and rode weigh 34 pounds; my secondary 28 pounds. So to be 
precise, the boat weighs 8716 pounds with empty tanks and nothing aboard but 
the primary anchor and rode. 

>From a PHRF perspective I'll speak with my US Sailing Regional Association 
>PHRF Chairman about what he expects to be included in the displacement used 
>for a boat's PHRF rating. He gave my boat a rating of 186, which surprised me. 
>I was expecting 174 based on what other clubs have given a 30-1, according to 
>http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf.
> Maybe when I tell him my boat's displacement is at least 700 pounds heavier 
>than what he used, my 186 rating will be justified :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Michael Brown"  
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 9:04:33 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 Displacement (was Re: Early 30-1 Interior Doors) 


> Now that I've launched my boat and weighed my trailer empty, I conclude that 
> my boat weighs ~8700 pounds with absolutely nothing aboard and empty tanks. 

Thanks Randy. 

I guess that is what the 30-1 weighs. 

I remember some spec a while back that claimed 7900 lbs, which is what PHRF-LO 
has. 
Empty and stripped out, no mast or sails and from what I can tell no wet spots 
Windburn 
is 8500 lbs. Did your weight include the mast ( maybe around 200 lbs )? 

Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C&C 30-1 


Launching in five days, and watching wet snow coming down this morning. 




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Re: Stus-List 30-1 Displacement (was Re: Early 30-1 Interior Doors)

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

And I should add, I'm quite certain the boat was completely dry at the time 
when I weighed it. It had been out of the water for ~1.5 years at weighing 
time. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Randy Stafford via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "randy stafford" , "Michael Brown" 
 
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 9:39:04 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 Displacement (was Re: Early 30-1 Interior Doors) 

Yes, the 8700 pounds includes mast, boom, spin pole, reaching strut, standing 
rigging, deck hardware, etc. My boat has two pairs of primary winches (big 
Barients) at the cockpit coamings, so the extra pair probably accounts for ~75 
pounds. 

My primary anchor and rode weigh 34 pounds; my secondary 28 pounds. So to be 
precise, the boat weighs 8716 pounds with empty tanks and nothing aboard but 
the primary anchor and rode. 

>From a PHRF perspective I'll speak with my US Sailing Regional Association 
>PHRF Chairman about what he expects to be included in the displacement used 
>for a boat's PHRF rating. He gave my boat a rating of 186, which surprised me. 
>I was expecting 174 based on what other clubs have given a 30-1, according to 
>http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf.
> Maybe when I tell him my boat's displacement is at least 700 pounds heavier 
>than what he used, my 186 rating will be justified :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Michael Brown via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Michael Brown"  
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 9:04:33 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 Displacement (was Re: Early 30-1 Interior Doors) 


> Now that I've launched my boat and weighed my trailer empty, I conclude that 
> my boat weighs ~8700 pounds with absolutely nothing aboard and empty tanks. 

Thanks Randy. 

I guess that is what the 30-1 weighs. 

I remember some spec a while back that claimed 7900 lbs, which is what PHRF-LO 
has. 
Empty and stripped out, no mast or sails and from what I can tell no wet spots 
Windburn 
is 8500 lbs. Did your weight include the mast ( maybe around 200 lbs )? 

Michael Brown 
Windburn 
C&C 30-1 


Launching in five days, and watching wet snow coming down this morning. 




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Re: Stus-List Masthead surprise!

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Apparently bees and wasps like to sail :) 

I had dirt dauber nests at the *bottom* of my mast, I discovered. And also in a 
place or two up under the deck / hull joint. And bee honeycombs in my trailer 
taillights. 

It appears dirt daubers' range is throughout North America. My boat was in an 
arid high desert climate the last four years (before it was mine), which is 
probably where it picked up those nests. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List"  
To: "CnClist"  
Cc: "Dennis"  
Sent: Monday, April 25, 2016 8:46:17 PM 
Subject: Stus-List Masthead surprise! 

I was aloft putting a Windex light on Touche' today. I drilled a hole in the 
side of the mast about 4 inches below the masthead to drop the power cable. 
When the drill burst through, a lot of dust and dirt came out. 

A bit of exploring and digging with a screwdriver revealed a bunch of dried 
mud. Since to my knowledge, nobody has ever buried Touche's mast in the bottom 
of Lake Pontchartrain, I decided on a different scenario. I guess a bunch of 
dirt daubers had filled the top 4-5 inches of the mast with mud nests. Had to 
dig under the hole with Special Tool WCH (wire coat hanger) to clear a path to 
drop the messenger line. 

Couldn't help but think about all the racers (including me) who try to minimize 
weight aloft only to have a bunch of pesky insects negate some of your efforts. 
:) 

BTW, we broke the messenger line so we'll give it another try Wednesday. That 
was a first. 

Dennis C. 
Touche' 35-1 #83 
Mandeville, LA 

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Re: Stus-List '88 MkII 30 polar?

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Lorne check out 
http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf
 for PHRF ratings by boat make & model given by various yacht clubs around the 
country, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_Handicap_Racing_Fleet 
and fan-out (specifically http://www.phrfsocal.org/phrf-history/) for 
background on PRHF. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Lorne Serpa via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Lorne Serpa"  
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 4:03:02 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List '88 MkII 30 polar? 

I'm new to sailing. I sort of see what you are saying. How to I know what my 
PHRF rating is for a Mk II 30? 
And, how do I know what PHRF rating is for other boats? I assume there is a 
library somewhere? I'll google it tonight. Thanks. 

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 



I'd look at the PHRF rating for similar sized boats like a Bene Oceanis 31, 
Dehler 29 etc. and use the closest. 

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Lorne Serpa via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 




A couple of my new weather routing apps would like a polar to make routing more 
accurate. Anyone have one or know where to get one? If not, there polar are 
prep loaded. Would any get me close? 

C5g3 
A35 
BP5 
CIGALE14 
CLASS40 
FIGARO2 
IMOCA2008MONO650 
POGO850 
TRANSPAC52 

Archambault 
a31 a35 a40rc 
Bavaria 
bavaria33 bavaria32 bavaria34 
Bénéteau 
evasion32 figaro2 first210 first21_7 first25_7 first26 first27_7 first30jk 
first310s first31_7 first325gte first32s5 oceanis31 oceanis34 first24 first29 
evasion34 firstclass10 oceanis351 
Dehler 
dehler29 dehler32 
Dufour 
dufour27 dufour34 dufour24 dufour34 
Etap 
etap32i 
Express 
express27 
Farr 
far36od mumm30 
Hallberg Rassy 
J Boats 
j105 j109 j120 j122 j133 
Jeanneau 
jod35 melody sunfast32 sunfast3200 sunfast32i 
Tartan 
tartan10 
Wauquiez 
gladiateur 
X Yachts 
x332 xp33 

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greatly appreciated! 







-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551 

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Re: Stus-List '88 MkII 30 polar?

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

+1. I spent three years crewing on other people's boats - headsail and 
spinnaker trimmer, foredeck, driver, "fourth", etc. - before buying my own boat 
and raising a crew for racing. My crew are relatively inexperienced and I want 
us all to rotate around and cross-train on every position. But that's still not 
the same as one person crewing around on different boats with different crews. 
My crew won't get that cross-pollination. It helps you judge what works well 
and what doesn't, and pick up information from a variety of sources. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Dennis C. via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Dennis"  
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 8:05:28 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List '88 MkII 30 polar? 

Ditto. That's what I did. Not only do you absorb a lot of sailing go fast 
knowledge, you will also see what works best as far as running rigging 
configurations, strategy, etc. I worked every position on lots of boats. My 
time spent racing on other boats was priceless. I still do it. 

As a skipper who has experience as main trimmer, genoa trimmer, grinder, put, 
foredeck, mast, etc. I understand what each crew member is doing, needs to do. 
Makes me a better skipper. BTW, I didn't usually drive the boat. One of my crew 
was better at it. I usually did foredeck. 

Guy in my marina races his boat. He only drives. He never races on other boats 
nor does he do other positions on his boat. His racing program never improves. 

The other advantage to racing on other boats is you don't have to pay for 
broken stuff. :) 

Dennis C. 
Touché 35-1 #83 
Mandeville, LA 

Sent from my iPhone 

On Apr 28, 2016, at 7:06 PM, Russ & Melody via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> wrote: 




Hi Lorne, 

Please do not try to learn how to sail and to race with a liveaboard boat that 
you just got in to. 

The very best way to learn racing and sailing is to get out by crewing on well 
found yachts. The ego of most crew members will smother you with information 
and by the end of a season you will see much of it applied. Good and bad. 

Then you can use your own boat, loaded as she will be, for pleasure. Say, a 
nice daysail once in awhile. 

Cheers, Russ 
Sweet 35 mk-1 


At 03:20 PM 28/04/2016, you wrote: 


Never raced before, interesting table with lots of boats. I obviously have 
lots of reading tonight when I get off work. What dimensions are best to get 
as close to match and in what priority? I assume "I" J, P, E etc in that order 
need to match and that I is more important to match than J and more so then P 
etc down the line. 
 
I do plan to get into racing this year, but it's a whole new world to me. I 
mainly bought it to live on, but want to increase my sailing experience. 







On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 
I'd look at the PHRF rating for similar sized boats like a Bene Oceanis 31, 
Dehler 29 etc. and use the closest. 

On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 4:24 PM, Lorne Serpa via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 

A couple of my new weather routing apps would like a polar to make routing more 
accurate.  Anyone have one or know where to get one? If not, there polar are 
prep loaded. Would any get me close? 

C5g3 
A35 
BP5 
CIGALE14 
CLASS40 
FIGARO2 
IMOCA2008MONO650 
POGO850 
TRANSPAC52 

Archambault 
a31 a35 a40rc 
Bavaria 
bavaria33 bavaria32 bavaria34 
Bénéteau 
evasion32 figaro2 first210 first21_7 first25_7 first26 first27_7 first30jk 
first310s first31_7 first325gte first32s5 oceanis31 oceanis34Â first24 first29 
evasion34 firstclass10 oceanis351 
Dehler 
dehler29 dehler32 
Dufour 
dufour27 dufour34Â dufour24 dufour34 
Etap 
etap32i 
Express 
express27 
Farr 
far36od mumm30 
Hallberg Rassy 
J Boats 
j105 j109 j120 j122 j133 
Jeanneau 
jod35 melody sunfast32 sunfast3200 sunfast32i 
Tartan 
tartan10 
Wauquiez 
gladiateur 
X Yachts 
x332 xp33 

___ 

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what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions are 
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-- 
Joel 
301 541 8551 

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Re: Stus-List C&C 35-2 Mast step position

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

The C&C 30 owner's manual says "C&C yachts are designed to carry from 6" of 
rake on the C&C 24 up to about 10" on the C&C 38." 

I just set the rake on my 30 MK I last weekend, and interpolated to about 7.5". 
Sailed her Wednesday night in about 13 kts with main & #2 genoa, and the helm 
was well-balanced. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Joe via CnC-List Della Barba"  
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Cc: "Joe Della Barba"  
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 8:09:25 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 35-2 Mast step position 

Do you know that measurement for the MK I? 
Joe 
Coquina 

-Original Message- 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Dennis C. 
via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 10:08 AM 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Dennis C. 
Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 35-2 Mast step position 

Weight hung from main halyard should be about 10 inches aft of gooseneck. 

Dennis C. 
Touché 35-1 #83 
Mandeville, LA 

Sent from my iPhone 

> On Apr 29, 2016, at 5:27 AM, Will Harney via CnC-List  
> wrote: 
> 
> I have four fore aft mast step spacers on my 35-2 and would like to know 
> where the base of the mast should go to make the boat go fast. 
> 
> Cheers, 
> 
> Will Harney 
> Disco Volante 
> C&C 35-2 #351 
> ___ 
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated! 

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Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Listers- 

I posted a few pictures from my first race in my new-to-me 30-1 (hull #7) last 
Wednesday night at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTeUlmcm1IX1c5ZHc 

You can see the foot of my mainsail is considerably shorter than my boom. I'm 
wondering if that's "normal" for 30-1s (or other C&Cs for that matter). It 
doesn't really look normal judging by brochure photos and drawings. 

A previous owner had also raised the boom at least a foot from its original 
height, as the C&C itself did on later C&C 30s. 

When I get a new mainsail I'd like to increase its area by both returning the 
boom to its original height, and increasing the length of mainsail's foot. I'm 
thinking more area equals more power equals more speed. And I can live with a 
lower boom. 

Any words of wisdom to share? 

Thanks, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 
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Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks John, Dennis, Michael, and Gary. 

As soon as the #@()*%^ snow stops falling around here and I can uncover and 
raise the sail again, I'll take actual measurements and compare to the 
specified E dimension and report back. 

My boat does have tiller steering, and boom-end sheeting to a traveler at the 
aft end of the cockpit. I like the room that arrangement provides in the 
cockpit, but I'm still getting used to switching hands between tiller and 
traveler during tacks, compared to driving boats with the traveler farther 
forward in the cockpit. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Gary Nylander"  
Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 3:30:30 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length 



Take a look at the C&C Brochures on the web site. You will see two versions of 
the early 30’s, one with end boom sheeting and the last one (d) with sheeting 
forward of the wheel. Maybe the difference is whether you had a tiller or 
wheel. 



Gary 




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 11:46 AM 
To: cnc-list  
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length 





Listers- 





I posted a few pictures from my first race in my new-to-me 30-1 (hull #7) last 
Wednesday night at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTeUlmcm1IX1c5ZHc 





You can see the foot of my mainsail is considerably shorter than my boom. I'm 
wondering if that's "normal" for 30-1s (or other C&Cs for that matter). It 
doesn't really look normal judging by brochure photos and drawings. 





A previous owner had also raised the boom at least a foot from its original 
height, as the C&C itself did on later C&C 30s. 





When I get a new mainsail I'd like to increase its area by both returning the 
boom to its original height, and increasing the length of mainsail's foot. I'm 
thinking more area equals more power equals more speed. And I can live with a 
lower boom. 





Any words of wisdom to share? 





Thanks, 


Randy Stafford 


S/V Grenadine 


C&C 30-1 #7 


Ken Caryl, CO 

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Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I'm serious. I'm in the southwest Denver metro area. It snowed several inches 
at my house over the weekend. And t's supposed to be 80 and breezy Thursday :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Russ & Melody via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Russ & Melody"  
Sent: Monday, May 2, 2016 7:33:28 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length 


Randy, 

You can't be serious about snow now. Where are you? It even stopped 
freezin in Fort Mac. 

The promise of global warming has finally come to the left coast. 
We're livin' the dream! 

Cheers, Russ 
35 mk-1 

At 03:01 PM 01/05/2016, you wrote: 
>Thanks John, Dennis, Michael, and Gary. 
> 
>As soon as the #@()*%^ snow stops falling around here and I can 
>uncover and raise the sail again, I'll take actual measurements and 
>compare to the specified E dimension and report back. 
> 
>My boat does have tiller steering, and boom-end sheeting to a 
>traveler at the aft end of the cockpit. I like the room that 
>arrangement provides in the cockpit, but I'm still getting used to 
>switching hands between tiller and traveler during tacks, compared 
>to driving boats with the traveler farther forward in the cockpit. 
> 
>Cheers, 
>Randy 


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Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Ron. What's red and sweet and used to make rum punch? Grenadine :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Ronald B. Frerker"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2016 10:24:58 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length 

BTW, did I mention that I really like your color choice??? 
Ron 
Wild Cheri 
C&C 30-1 
STL 




From: Gary Nylander via CnC-List  
Randy, it is pretty evident that your boom is longer than what the later boats 
have. My boom extends only back as far as the wide spots in the coaming where 
the winches are mounted. Yours is longer, probably because your boat has 
end-boom sheeting. The later boats are sheeted about two feet in front of the 
end of the boom to a traveler which is between the seats and immediately aft of 
the cockpit hatch covers. Yours appears to have a traveler across the back of 
the boat. 
Just measure the foot of your sail and then compare it to the specifications on 
the C&C web site, I think you have an extra long boom, not a short sail. 
Gary 
30-1 #593 
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC- 
I posted a few pictures from my first race in my new-to-me 30-1 (hull #7) last 
Wednesday night at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTeUlmcm1IX1c5ZHc 
You can see the foot of my mainsail is considerably shorter than my boom. I'm 
wondering if that's "normal" for 30-1s (or other C&Cs for that matter). It 
doesn't really look normal judging by brochure photos and drawings. 
A previous owner had also raised the boom at least a foot from its original 
height, as the C&C itself did on later C&C 30s. 
When I get a new mainsail I'd like to increase its area by both returning the 
boom to its original height, and increasing the length of mainsail's foot. I'm 
thinking more area equals more power equals more speed. And I can live with a 
lower boom. 
Any words of wisdom to share? 


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Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

So it turns out on this particular question everybody was partially right. :) 

Like Rick Bushie's Anchovy (30-1 hull #1), my Grenadine (30-1 hull #7) has a 
13' boom with boom-end sheeting to a traveler at the aft end of the cockpit, 
and tiller steering. The boom ends a few inches forward of the backstay, and 
its length is probably driven by that sheeting arrangement. Perhaps later in 
the production run C&C moved the traveler forward on the 30-1 (e.g. for wheel 
steering) and shortened the boom accordingly. Having sailed several 
tiller-steered boats up to and including a J/30, I personally like the cockpit 
layout of my boat - lots of room. 

But unfortunately my current mainsail's foot is only 10'6" - a full 12" shorter 
than the 30-1's designed E dimension. I have no idea whether that was 
intentional by a previous owner, or perhaps a screw-up by the obscure maker of 
my mainsail (whose sail bag is stamped with the year I graduated high school :) 

Also my boom is raised exactly 12" from its as-built height, as C&C later did 
from the factory on the 30-1. So I'm giving up mainsail area in both the E and 
P dimensions compared to the early 30-1's design. When I buy a new mainsail 
I'll make sure its foot is 11'6" per the 30-1 design, or perhaps even longer 
(since I've got enough boom for that). But I can see the advantages of leaving 
the boom a foot higher than its original location. It makes moving around in 
the cockpit easier and safer. It's probably not worth the extra ~12 square feet 
of mainsail area to lower it back. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Randy Stafford via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "randy stafford"  
Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 4:01:06 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length 

Thanks John, Dennis, Michael, and Gary. 

As soon as the #@()*%^ snow stops falling around here and I can uncover and 
raise the sail again, I'll take actual measurements and compare to the 
specified E dimension and report back. 

My boat does have tiller steering, and boom-end sheeting to a traveler at the 
aft end of the cockpit. I like the room that arrangement provides in the 
cockpit, but I'm still getting used to switching hands between tiller and 
traveler during tacks, compared to driving boats with the traveler farther 
forward in the cockpit. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Gary Nylander via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Gary Nylander"  
Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 3:30:30 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length 



Take a look at the C&C Brochures on the web site. You will see two versions of 
the early 30’s, one with end boom sheeting and the last one (d) with sheeting 
forward of the wheel. Maybe the difference is whether you had a tiller or 
wheel. 



Gary 




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Sunday, May 1, 2016 11:46 AM 
To: cnc-list  
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Stus-List 30-1 Mainsail Foot Length 





Listers- 





I posted a few pictures from my first race in my new-to-me 30-1 (hull #7) last 
Wednesday night at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTeUlmcm1IX1c5ZHc 





You can see the foot of my mainsail is considerably shorter than my boom. I'm 
wondering if that's "normal" for 30-1s (or other C&Cs for that matter). It 
doesn't really look normal judging by brochure photos and drawings. 





A previous owner had also raised the boom at least a foot from its original 
height, as the C&C itself did on later C&C 30s. 





When I get a new mainsail I'd like to increase its area by both returning the 
boom to its original height, and increasing the length of mainsail's foot. I'm 
thinking more area equals more power equals more speed. And I can live with a 
lower boom. 





Any words of wisdom to share? 





Thanks, 


Randy Stafford 


S/V Grenadine 


C&C 30-1 #7 


Ken Caryl, CO 

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Re: Stus-List Mast boot

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I installed one of those when stepping my mast this spring and it was simple. 
My wife and daughter did the install. If the mast is down you can slip the new 
boot up from the base of the mast, so no cutting and glueing necessary (except 
trimming boot top and bottom to mast and collar circumferences respectively). 
It looks clean, doesn't leak, and costs $25-30.

Cheers,
Randy

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 5, 2016, at 8:39 AM, Jean-Francois J Rivard via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> If you can install with the mast off Holland Marine and other places sell 
> universal boots with tapered ends and you just cut at the level that is a 
> tight fit over your mast and base.  This way it's continuous. 
> 
> You cinch in down with large hose clamps and complete the seal with regular 
> silicon.  It's really straightforward, does not leak,  and it looks 
> "Factory": It kinda a looks like a shift boot on a manual transmission car. 
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Francois Rivard
> 1990 34+ "Take Five"
> Lake Lanier, Georgia
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Listers- 

Just wondering how many of you 30-1 owners out there have ever received a PHRF 
certificate for your boat, and what your rating was. 

Looking at 
http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf,
 the range is 168-186 with mode 174 and mean 174.64 (and median 177). But it's 
hard to know the particulars of all those boats that were rated e.g. how many 
had folding props. And there may be rating inconsistency between US Sailing 
regional sailing associations. 

The PHRF chairman of my regional sailing association gave my 30-1 base PHRF of 
186, and an adjusted PHRF of 180 (a -6 adjustment due to spinnaker max width 
>180% of J). AFAIK my boat is totally stock, including a fixed two-blade prop. 

Just wondering how my PHRF ratings compare to other 30-1s' PHRF ratings, and 
wondering about the particulars of the 30-1s that got rated. 

Thanks In Advance, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 
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Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Rick, and thanks all for the responses. 

My regional sailing association's PRHF rules are here: 
http://rmsail.org/?page_id=215 . The Sailing Association of Intermountain Lakes 
is one of three RSAs in US Sailing's Area F. 

In the end I think my rating is pretty consistent with all the other responses 
- effectively 174 base, +12 adjustment for fixed 2-blade prop, -6 adjustment 
for SMW > 180% of J, adjusted PHRF 180 with spinnaker, 198 without spinnaker. 
It's just that my certificate is not explicit about the base and prop 
adjustment - the prop adjustment is kind of "built in" to the base PHRF. When I 
renew next year maybe I'll ask my RSA's PHRF chairman to be more explicit about 
that - he's conscientious, and a friend on whose J/22 I've crewed before, and 
we've been communicating about my rating. 

Also, FWIW, I compared Schell regression formula outputs for "brochure data" 
(8000 lbs displacement and 11.5' E dimension) versus actual measured data for 
my boat (9200 lbs displacement and 10.5' E dimension), and the added weight and 
smaller mainsail cause an 11-second increase in output (9 seconds due to 
displacement difference, 2 seconds due to mainsail area difference). Since the 
rating process in my RSA doesn't seem to depend directly on displacement, and 
since my boat's rating is consistent with 30-1 ratings in other RSAs, I'm not 
concerned about that Schell regression formula output difference. I'll get the 
2 seconds back when I buy a new, properly-sized mainsail. And now I'm thinking 
about folding props... 

Thanks again. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Rick Brass via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Rick Brass"  
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 7:10:35 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating 



You may want to look at your local PHRF rules. The adjustment for the oversized 
spinnaker is typical. But in NCPHRF the presumption is that you have a folding 
or feathering prop (or an outboatd that can be raised out of the water). An 
exposed solid 2 blade prop is a +12 second adjustment. 



Rick Brass 

Washington, NC 








From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randy 
Stafford via CnC-List 
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:34 AM 
To: cnc-list  
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating 





Listers- 





Just wondering how many of you 30-1 owners out there have ever received a PHRF 
certificate for your boat, and what your rating was. 





Looking at 
http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf,
 the range is 168-186 with mode 174 and mean 174.64 (and median 177). But it's 
hard to know the particulars of all those boats that were rated e.g. how many 
had folding props. And there may be rating inconsistency between US Sailing 
regional sailing associations. 





The PHRF chairman of my regional sailing association gave my 30-1 base PHRF of 
186, and an adjusted PHRF of 180 (a -6 adjustment due to spinnaker max width 
>180% of J). AFAIK my boat is totally stock, including a fixed two-blade prop. 





Just wondering how my PHRF ratings compare to other 30-1s' PHRF ratings, and 
wondering about the particulars of the 30-1s that got rated. 





Thanks In Advance, 


Randy Stafford 


S/V Grenadine 


C&C 30-1 #7 


Ken Caryl, CO 

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Stus-List Head Foil Feed Funnel

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Listers- 

Tonight I accidentally dropped overboard half the feed funnel of the old Head 
Foil 2 luff support system on my boat. Any ideas where I might find a 
replacement? I'd prefer to not plunk down the money for an entirely new luff 
support system or (gasp) furler. I'll contact the company but judging by their 
website I wonder if they're still viable. 

Thanks, 
Randy 
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Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

When I bought C&C 30-1 HIN 3007972 it came with two spinnakers of different 
material weights. They were handed down with the boat when the PO moved it to 
Colorado from Traverse City Michigan (where it spent the first 40 years of its 
life). The lighter one was made by Babel & Buchbinder, an obscure loft in 
Traverse City that now appears to be a Doyle loft 
(http://www.doylesails.com/lofts/traversecity/). I can't find a sailmaker's 
label on the heavier one. Both have "ChuteSCOOP" dousing sleeves on them 
(http://www.chutescoop.com). That's all I know about them. 

I measured their max width how my RSA's PHRF chairman told me to, by folding 
each sail in half vertically and measuring from the trailing edges to the 
center fold, both at the foot and about a third of the way up. Then I doubled 
the measurement and calculated what % of J it represented. If that's not the 
right way to measure SMW maybe I can get 6 seconds back in my PHRF rating :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Ronald B. Frerker"  
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 9:50:15 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating 

I believe mine is rated 186 in STL; but I have a 160% genny, folding prop and 
shoal draft. There is a small difference between the shoal and fin keels for 
PHRF. From personal experience, I do know the fin keel points higher than my 
shoal draft. 
How did you end up with a chute that has >180% girth? 
Ron 
Wild Cheri 
C&C 30-1 
STL 




From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List  
To: cnc-list  
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:34 AM 
Subject: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating 

Listers- 

Just wondering how many of you 30-1 owners out there have ever received a PHRF 
certificate for your boat, and what your rating was. 

Looking at 
http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf,
 the range is 168-186 with mode 174 and mean 174.64 (and median 177). But it's 
hard to know the particulars of all those boats that were rated e.g. how many 
had folding props. And there may be rating inconsistency between US Sailing 
regional sailing associations. 

The PHRF chairman of my regional sailing association gave my 30-1 base PHRF of 
186, and an adjusted PHRF of 180 (a -6 adjustment due to spinnaker max width 
>180% of J). AFAIK my boat is totally stock, including a fixed two-blade prop. 

Just wondering how my PHRF ratings compare to other 30-1s' PHRF ratings, and 
wondering about the particulars of the 30-1s that got rated. 

Thanks In Advance, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

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Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I should have mentioned, my spinnakers' max widths are both "only" 184% of J. 

Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Randy Stafford via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "randy stafford"  
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 10:04:38 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating 

When I bought C&C 30-1 HIN 3007972 it came with two spinnakers of different 
material weights. They were handed down with the boat when the PO moved it to 
Colorado from Traverse City Michigan (where it spent the first 40 years of its 
life). The lighter one was made by Babel & Buchbinder, an obscure loft in 
Traverse City that now appears to be a Doyle loft 
(http://www.doylesails.com/lofts/traversecity/). I can't find a sailmaker's 
label on the heavier one. Both have "ChuteSCOOP" dousing sleeves on them 
(http://www.chutescoop.com). That's all I know about them. 

I measured their max width how my RSA's PHRF chairman told me to, by folding 
each sail in half vertically and measuring from the trailing edges to the 
center fold, both at the foot and about a third of the way up. Then I doubled 
the measurement and calculated what % of J it represented. If that's not the 
right way to measure SMW maybe I can get 6 seconds back in my PHRF rating :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Ronald B. Frerker"  
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 9:50:15 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating 

I believe mine is rated 186 in STL; but I have a 160% genny, folding prop and 
shoal draft. There is a small difference between the shoal and fin keels for 
PHRF. From personal experience, I do know the fin keel points higher than my 
shoal draft. 
How did you end up with a chute that has >180% girth? 
Ron 
Wild Cheri 
C&C 30-1 
STL 




From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List  
To: cnc-list  
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2016 12:34 AM 
Subject: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating 

Listers- 

Just wondering how many of you 30-1 owners out there have ever received a PHRF 
certificate for your boat, and what your rating was. 

Looking at 
http://www.ussailing.org/wp-content/uploads/DARoot/Offshore/PHRF/2014%20PHRF%20Handicaps%20Data.pdf,
 the range is 168-186 with mode 174 and mean 174.64 (and median 177). But it's 
hard to know the particulars of all those boats that were rated e.g. how many 
had folding props. And there may be rating inconsistency between US Sailing 
regional sailing associations. 

The PHRF chairman of my regional sailing association gave my 30-1 base PHRF of 
186, and an adjusted PHRF of 180 (a -6 adjustment due to spinnaker max width 
>180% of J). AFAIK my boat is totally stock, including a fixed two-blade prop. 

Just wondering how my PHRF ratings compare to other 30-1s' PHRF ratings, and 
wondering about the particulars of the 30-1s that got rated. 

Thanks In Advance, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

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Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I think adjustment amounts differ from RSA to RSA (Regional Sailing Association 
of US Sailing). My RSA's PHRF rules are here: http://rmsail.org/?page_id=215 
(scroll down to "Standard Adjustments"). They say -6 for SMW > 180% of J. And 
they say only +6 for fixed two-blade prop, whereas NCPHRF gives +12 for that ( 
http://www.ncphrf.com/Preddy%20additions/Fleet%20Rules/Fleet%20rules%202013.pdf 
, Article II.3.D). I don't think I have much choice but to live by the PHRF 
rules of my RSA. 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Ronald B. Frerker"  
Sent: Sunday, May 22, 2016 11:09:14 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating 

I believe that should only be a 3sec/mi correction to the base then. 
Ron 
Wild Cheri 
C&C 30-1 
STL 




From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List  
To: cnc-list  
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2016 11:10 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List 30-1 PHRF Rating 

I should have mentioned, my spinnakers' max widths are both "only" 184% of J. 

Randy 



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Re: Stus-List Head Foil Feed Funnel

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

It's in 18 feet of murky questionable marina water that I'd prefer not to swim 
in, even if I could see my hand in front of my face :) 

Turns out I got great customer service from Head Foil. I sent them a picture 
and description of the half I didn't drop overboard, and they dated it to the 
first years of their company - early 70s, meaning my luff support system was 
probably original. They looked but couldn't find a replacement part. So I'm 
getting a new Head Foil system after a 44-year service life on the previous 
one. Not sure the replacement feed funnel have would have been a complete fix 
anyway, because some of the plastic extrusion underneath it cracked and broke 
off. Without a new system I'm worried that sharp plastic edges might cut luff 
tapes of headsails being hoisted. The new Head Foil system is significantly 
less expensive than competing systems or furlers. I called / emailed the 
company on Saturday morning and they called me back within a few hours. My new 
system shipped today. I'll report back after installing and using it. 

There's actually more to the story. Went out for a leisure sail with family, 
and the genoa foot fouled on a horn cleat during the hoist. My daughter's 
boyfriend (big strong kid) kept hauling on the halyard until the feed funnel 
blew apart. Both halves were still dangling by one of two screws holding them 
together (the other screw blew out somewhere during the hoist). When we got 
back to the marina I went to take all the parts off the forestay to see if I 
could find replacement screws and re-assemble the whole thing, and that's when 
I dropped the part overboard. But I'm not sure reassembly would have worked 
anyway because of the broken plastic. The lessons: (1) if a sail is not going 
up like you expect, something is wrong, and continuing to haul on the halyard 
will only break something; (2) be careful not to drop shit overboard :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "detroito91 via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "detroito91"  
Sent: Monday, May 23, 2016 6:25:31 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Head Foil Feed Funnel 

Look directly below your boat! 
You will find all the items I have dropped also 


Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device 


 Original message  
From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List  
Date:05/20/2016 11:49 PM (GMT-05:00) 
To: cnc-list  
Cc: randy.staff...@comcast.net 
Subject: Stus-List Head Foil Feed Funnel 

Listers- 

Tonight I accidentally dropped overboard half the feed funnel of the old Head 
Foil 2 luff support system on my boat. Any ideas where I might find a 
replacement? I'd prefer to not plunk down the money for an entirely new luff 
support system or (gasp) furler. I'll contact the company but judging by their 
website I wonder if they're still viable. 

Thanks, 
Randy 

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Re: Stus-List Head Foil Feed Funnel

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Ouch is right :) That was about a $500 lesson, but who knows how much longer a 
44-year old extruded plastic luff support system would have lasted anyway. It 
had some other visible deterioration. But probably not as expensive a lesson as 
replacing a carbon fiber spin pole :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Sam Wheeler via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Sam Wheeler"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2016 4:38:50 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Head Foil Feed Funnel 

Ouch. 

My version of Lesson 1 was when I was in college and an older alumnus invited 
our team to race with him on his Serendipity 43. We went out for a practice 
day, and as team captain and one of the only people with non-dinghy race 
experience, I ended up as the de facto crew chief. 

We get the spinnaker up and call for a jibe. Foredeck crew dips the pole and 
gets it hooked up on the new guy, but it's not coming aft, so I yell to the 
6'8" dude on the primary winch to keep cranking. 

The ensuing explosion of carbon fiber shards taught me a valuable lesson about 
baby stays. 

Sam 
35-3 
SF 

On Mon, May 23, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List < 
cnc-list@cnc-list.com > wrote: 



It's in 18 feet of murky questionable marina water that I'd prefer not to swim 
in, even if I could see my hand in front of my face :) 

Turns out I got great customer service from Head Foil. I sent them a picture 
and description of the half I didn't drop overboard, and they dated it to the 
first years of their company - early 70s, meaning my luff support system was 
probably original. They looked but couldn't find a replacement part. So I'm 
getting a new Head Foil system after a 44-year service life on the previous 
one. Not sure the replacement feed funnel have would have been a complete fix 
anyway, because some of the plastic extrusion underneath it cracked and broke 
off. Without a new system I'm worried that sharp plastic edges might cut luff 
tapes of headsails being hoisted. The new Head Foil system is significantly 
less expensive than competing systems or furlers. I called / emailed the 
company on Saturday morning and they called me back within a few hours. My new 
system shipped today. I'll report back after installing and using it. 

There's actually more to the story. Went out for a leisure sail with family, 
and the genoa foot fouled on a horn cleat during the hoist. My daughter's 
boyfriend (big strong kid) kept hauling on the halyard until the feed funnel 
blew apart. Both halves were still dangling by one of two screws holding them 
together (the other screw blew out somewhere during the hoist). When we got 
back to the marina I went to take all the parts off the forestay to see if I 
could find replacement screws and re-assemble the whole thing, and that's when 
I dropped the part overboard. But I'm not sure reassembly would have worked 
anyway because of the broken plastic. The lessons: (1) if a sail is not going 
up like you expect, something is wrong, and continuing to haul on the halyard 
will only break something; (2) be careful not to drop shit overboard :) 

Cheers, 
Randy 





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Re: Stus-List My Experience and Mistakes With Interlux

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Way to go Bettina, and Ryan. Nice work.

Regarding where the leaks are coming from at the toe rail / deck-hull joint, I 
took Don Casey's suggestion and traced under the joint on the inside with a 
washable marker (plus around the chainplates on the inside). Worked like a 
charm. I've confirmed leakage from my port chainplate and one spot under the 
toe rail on the starboard bow.

Next offseason I'll pull the chainplate and re-bed them. For the toe rail leak 
I'm hoping I can get away with tightening a few bolts.

Cheers,
Randy
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 28, 2016, at 9:33 AM, Bmue via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> Ryan,
> Nice job.
> Re finishing the topside.
> Just do it. 
> 
> We fell into the same "trap" you did, refinished the hull, from a dull 
> battleship grey to a bright blue and white last year, which made the beige or 
> whatever colour the deck was look grimy (nevermind the cockpit that had 
> mismatched instrumentation aka old cut outs that were patched up, patches of 
> old repair work on the deck etc)  In addition there was almost no grip left 
> on the foredeck which made moving around during a race "interesting"
> 
> 3 intense weeks of two of us working some long evenings (for masking of the 
> kiwi grip I recruited two extra handy helpers- 7h later it was done) and the 
> boat literally looks like new (lots of oohs and aaahhhs during launch and at 
> the dock since then) . Btw, this included resetting a couple of stanchions, 
> fixing a couple of soft spots and filling instrument holes in the cockpit. 
> 
> My tip, remove as much hardware as you can. However, we left some cleats and 
> blocks in as they were too difficult to remove and we figured what is set 
> that fast and doesn't leak we better leave alone. I made up some "special" 
> kiwigrip tools by cutting one of the rollers, stripping it off the roll and 
> hot glueing it on a small paintbrush and a small square patch on a Popsicle 
> stick...worked like a charm in the areas where the roller couldn't reach.
> 
> The interlux brightside was easy to apply - anybody who has ever 
> painted/varnished with reasonable results and good eyesight should not have a 
> problem. You are right about sanding out every run, I missed a couple but I 
> think I will be the only one who'll notice. The kiwigrip is super easy to 
> apply and very, very forgiving, I was surprised. And the best of it all, it 
> feels safe running around the foredeck no more sliding around on the rounded 
> parts of the deck. 
> 
> Lastly, we used some self-levelling type caulk (recommended by practical 
> sailor) along the toe rail as we suspected a leak somewhere along there, but 
> can't bring ourselves to even think about resetting it . Good news, after 
> three days of torrential rains, no leaks whatsoever, bad news, the stuff 
> somehow reacts with the interlux aka the paint didn't dry (we left the caulk 
> to dry for a month prior to painting) However, it seems the last time I was 
> at the boat the sun finally baked the paint on? 
> 
> In summary, lots of work, doable, and really, the old lady deserved a 
> makeover. I'd certainly do it again and even the somewhat reluctant husband 
> finally came around.
> 
> Bettina
> 
> C&C 25 Savannah
> 
> 
> 
>> On May 26, 2016, at 21:24, Ryan Doyle via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> at
> 
> ___
> 
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> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List mast collar tangs C& C 33-2

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Interesting that apparently only some but not all C&C models have these mast 
collar tangs. Mine (C&C 30 MK I hull #7, designed 1971-sh built 1972) does not 
have them. It has a bulkhead about a half-foot forward of the mast that is 
strongly tabbed to the cabin top, which is presumably the design element 
intended to prevent upward flexing of the cabin top. I could see how tangs 
fastened to mast and collar could do the same thing, using the mast as a 
structural member. I wonder when and under what circumstances C&C chose to use 
tangs vs. bulkheads. 

Cheers, 
Randy Stafford 
S/V Grenadine 
C&C 30-1 #7 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "jhnelson via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "jhnelson"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 12:43:50 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List mast collar tangs C& C 33-2 

Cabin top flexes upward, doors won't close. Boat flexes more than it should. 
Generally I don't think anything catestrophic would happen...immediately 
anyway. But flexing the Cabin top is likely not great. 



Sent from my Samsung device 


 Original message  
From: Wayne Anstey via CnC-List  
Date: 2016-05-31 3:25 PM (GMT-04:00) 
To: Frederick G Street via CnC-List  
Cc: Wayne Anstey  
Subject: Re: Stus-List mast collar tangs C& C 33-2 

What happens if you don't put them on at all and only put the wedges in? 

Wayne Anstey 
Resilience 
1964 C&C 30mk1 
Bedford, N S, Canada 

Sent from my Bell Sony device over Canada’s largest network. 

 Bruce Pope via CnC-List wrote  

> Hi Doug. 
> 
> 
> I had the same problem on my 29-2. Installed the mast for the first time 
> after transport, tuned the rigging, everything set up and then... found the 
> tangs in a galley drawer where I had stored them for transport. I had to 
> slacken all rigging before I could get the holes to align. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From: CnC-List  on behalf of Persuasion37 via 
> CnC-List  
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 4:17 AM 
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Persuasion37 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List mast collar tangs C& C 33-2 
> 
> Hi Doug. 
> 
> 
> On my 37 I cannot install the bolts if I tune the mast first. I've done this 
> a couple of times now and the only thing to do is loosen everything, install 
> the bolts and re-tune. 
> 
> 
> Mike 
> 
> C&C 37 
> 
> Long Sault 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad 
> 
> 
> On May 30, 2016, at 8:05 PM, doug.welch--- via CnC-List 
>  wrote: 
> 
> When I was rigging my new to me 33-2 we couldn't locate one of the the mast 
> collar tangs so I had a friend fabricate a duplicate. Both are now misaligned 
> and the holes are about 1/4 inch too high to slip the bolt in (the boat is 
> fully rigged). My friends have different opinions on this. One says release 
> the rigging and the tangs will slightly deform the cabin top when we reset 
> the mast. Another days remake the tangs so the bolts line up with jokes in 
> the mast when it's fully rigged. Looking for help from you folks. 
> 
> 
> 
> Cheers, 
> 
> Doug 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android 
> 
> ___ 
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated! 
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Re: Stus-List Fwd: Questions asked by Banff Park tourists

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Send 'em out my way :) 

Randy 
Ken Caryl, CO 

- Original Message -

From: "Joe via CnC-List Della Barba"  
To: "cnc-list@cnc-list.com"  
Cc: "Joe Della Barba"  
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 12:52:48 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fwd: Questions asked by Banff Park tourists 



I have had French visitors to * Maryland * wanting to see cowboys and other 
wild west movie scenes and make comments about where was my horse and Indian 
attacks. 

Joe 




From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Ronald B. 
Frerker via CnC-List 
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 14:41 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Ronald B. Frerker 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fwd: Questions asked by Banff Park tourists 





Just messing with him! 


Here in STL a tourist asked me why we built the Arch; I told them it was so 
they could put a red light on top so airplanes wouldn't hit it. Seemed to 
satisfy them. 


BTW, MO is one of a few states where we might need passports to fly to other 
states. Apparently there's a few states where the drivers license won't be 
sufficient ID any longer. Haven't followed that lately to see where it's at. 


Some on the list might want to take note since it was more than just MO. 


Ron 


Wild Cheri 


C&C 30-1 


STL 









From: Bmue via CnC-List < cnc-list@cnc-list.com > 
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Cc: Bmue < anitteb...@yahoo.ca > 
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2016 12:35 PM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Fwd: Questions asked by Banff Park tourists 





Don't think that's what he meant...a) anyone owning a C&C has provided evidence 
of some smarts already ,maybe it's merely suggestions for how to behave "in 
character" whenever you come up here so the Canadians don't get confused. 



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Re: Stus-List mast collar tangs C& C 33-2

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

That all makes good sense. And yes, my 30-1 #7 has sheaves in the mast just 
above the cabin top for turning the main and headsail halyards out 
(athwartships) to winches on the dorade boxes. 

The thing that still confuses me is, on these boats with mast collar tangs, how 
do the halyards exit the mast above the cabin top, if there are no sheaves in 
the mast and they require turning blocks on the mast collar? 

Cheers, 
Randy 

- Original Message -

From: "Robert Gallagher via CnC-List"  
To: "cnc-list"  
Cc: "Robert Gallagher"  
Sent: Wednesday, June 1, 2016 8:46:21 AM 
Subject: Re: Stus-List mast collar tangs C& C 33-2 

I'm no engineer. Just a guess. 

The older models were not designed with vertical running rigging loads at the 
center of the cabin roof. There were horizontal loads leading from inside the 
mast to winches at the base of the mast 

Later models had halyard, reefing, etc blocks attached to the cabin top that 
lead aft to the cockpit. These loads are vertical. 

In my untrained brain I always assumed that was the reason for the tangs on my 
30 MKII and the lack of tangs on my 30 MKI 

But again, I'm no engineer 

Rob Gallagher 
Hanuman 
30MKII 
Noank Ct 


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Re: Stus-List Fwd: 30% Off Graphics During Our July 4th Sale

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I used BoatUS for my graphics this spring and was pleased with the service and 
results. I got a 1 discount for being a member.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2016, at 11:15 AM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> If anyone is in the need for new graphics on their boat, I have used BoatUS 
> graphics and have been pleased with what I received.  They were easy to work 
> with, and here's a good discount, good until July 8.  I don't think you have 
> to be a BoatUS member, but I may be wrong.
> 
> Alan Bergen
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: BoatUS Boat Graphics 
> Date: Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:00 AM
> Subject: 30% Off Graphics During Our July 4th Sale
> To: trya...@alumni.usc.edu
> 
> 
> Hurry, Ends Friday 7/8/16
> View Online
>   All Products | Lettering | Striping
> 
>  
> Not valid on previous orders and cannot be combined with any other 
> promotional offers or program discounts.
> 
> PLEASE NOTE: This email was sent to trya...@alumni.usc.edu.
> 
> Manage Your Email Preferences
> 
> Email boatgraph...@boatus.com with any questions or comments. 
> 
> BoatUS Boat Graphics 880 S Pickett St Alexandria VA 22304-4606 
> ©2016, Boat Owners Association of The United States. All Rights Reserved.
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List Fwd: 30% Off Graphics During Our July 4th Sale

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Was trying to say 10% discount

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 2, 2016, at 1:39 PM, Randy Stafford  wrote:
> 
> I used BoatUS for my graphics this spring and was pleased with the service 
> and results. I got a 1 discount for being a member.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Jul 2, 2016, at 11:15 AM, ALAN BERGEN via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If anyone is in the need for new graphics on their boat, I have used BoatUS 
>> graphics and have been pleased with what I received.  They were easy to work 
>> with, and here's a good discount, good until July 8.  I don't think you have 
>> to be a BoatUS member, but I may be wrong.
>> 
>> Alan Bergen
>> 
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: BoatUS Boat Graphics 
>> Date: Sat, Jul 2, 2016 at 7:00 AM
>> Subject: 30% Off Graphics During Our July 4th Sale
>> To: trya...@alumni.usc.edu
>> 
>> 
>> Hurry, Ends Friday 7/8/16
>> View Online
>>  All Products | Lettering | Striping
>> 
>>  
>> Not valid on previous orders and cannot be combined with any other 
>> promotional offers or program discounts.
>> 
>> PLEASE NOTE: This email was sent to trya...@alumni.usc.edu.
>> 
>> Manage Your Email Preferences
>> 
>> Email boatgraph...@boatus.com with any questions or comments. 
>> 
>> BoatUS Boat Graphics 880 S Pickett St Alexandria VA 22304-4606 
>> ©2016, Boat Owners Association of The United States. All Rights Reserved.
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 PHRF racing

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I have inboard tracks aft, outside the cockpit coamings. Where are yours 
located fore and aft?

Thanks,
Randy

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 17, 2016, at 8:18 PM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> One item which seems not to be mentioned in this thread is how you have your 
> genoas rigged. Do you have inboard genoa tracks, because the 30 won’t point 
> if you are still running the sheets to blocks on the rail. We have inboard  
> tracks and seem to point well.
>  
> Gary
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick 
> Taillieu via CnC-List
> Sent: Friday, July 15, 2016 8:09 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Rick Taillieu 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 PHRF racing
>  
> Randy,
>  
> I can’t comment on rig tuning for a 30 but for your 1-4 list here are a few 
> tips.
>  
> 1 – Boat speed is very important. Going up wind keeping up your speed through 
> the water will allow the keel to generate lift.
> 2 – Don’t pinch trying to outpoint the Catalinas.  Don’t trim your genoa 
> closer than 4-6” from the spreader, the sail should never touch the spreader, 
> it will make you slow.
> Do you have inboard tracks? If not still sheet inside the lifelines. I have a 
> tape marker on my spreaders 6” from the tip and use that as a trim gauge.
> Catalina 27’s have a gift PHRF pretty much everywhere, I have to give them 
> time in my 25.
> 3 – The key to boat handling is practice. Take your crew out on non race days 
> and practice starts, mark roundings and sail trim.  I don’t know how many 
> crew you have but the helmsman should be concentrating on steering, the 
> trimmers in the sail trim and rail meat looking outside the boat for traffic, 
> gusts, lulls and shifts and passing them on to the rest of the crew.
> 4 – Yes, the 30 is very stiff. That means you can carry full sail much longer 
> than other boats.  One other point, how old are your sails?
> Old sails will be slow and will never out point a boat with newer sails.
>  
> Good Luck with your racing and keep at it
>  
> Rick Taillieu
> Nemesis
> '75 C&C 25  #371
> Shearwater Yacht Club
> Halifax, NS.
>  
>  
>  
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of RANDY via 
> CnC-List
> Sent: July-15-16 19:57
> To: cnc-list
> Cc: RANDY; Steven Tattrie
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 PHRF racing
>  
> It's awesome that you have a half-dozen 30-1s racing in your club.  You could 
> have your own little one-design fleet :)  You must be somewhere on the Great 
> Lakes I'd guess.  And your competition may be reading this email thread :)
>  
> Regarding tuning the rig, I just followed the owner's manual.  Centered 
> masthead side-to-side measuring with main halyard to rail, tightened upper 
> shrouds until turnbuckles were "hard to turn", tightened lowers to have an 
> inch of play.  Set 8" rake with backstay adjuster (my backstay doesn't have a 
> turnbuckle) and with forestay turnbuckle "hard to turn" i.e. very little 
> headsail sag.
>  
> Here's what I've found so far racing my new-to-me 30-1 in my club's 
> just-ended spring series (ten Wednesday nights).  I raced in a non-spinnaker 
> PRHF division sailing triangle courses.  My main competition is a couple of 
> Catalina 27s with folding props, rating 221, and much more experienced 
> skippers and crews.  I have a fixed prop and 198 rating and crew of total 
> newbies.
>  
> 1. Despite propeller differences, I can meet or beat their boat speed on 
> every point of sail under the right conditions: a) the wind has to be up 
> enough, say Beaufort 4, to overcome their displacement advantage of about a 
> ton; and b) my sails have to be optimally trimmed.  The 30-1 has better SA/D 
> and D/L ratios than the Catalina 27, but it takes some wind to see those 
> advantages, and it takes good sail trim against experienced competition.
>  
> 2. They can out-point me by maybe five degrees.  I flew my 155% genoa all 
> series, because my rating doesn't account for my 170, and I never had a windy 
> enough night to drop back to the 135.  I'll start pinching if I get closer 
> than say 40 degrees to the wind with the 155.
>  
> 3. I'm getting beat on boat handling and tactics.  Our maneuvers aren't sharp 
> enough yet, and I need to have consistently good starts and stay in clean air 
> more, and these skippers know the lake's wind patterns better than I do.
>  
> 4. My 30-1 is stiff as hell.  One night after a race the wind piped up to 
> Beaufort 6 and I hit 7.6 knots on beam/close reach, according to GPS, under 
> full main and 155, and I *still* didn't get a rail in the water (very close 
> though, within an inch or another degree of heel).  Then my genoa tore :)  
> She did want to round up under that much wind and sail, and I'd say weather 
> helm requires attention and tuning by Beaufort 5.
>  
> I decided to stay in the non-spinnaker fleet for the summer series.  Just 
> flew the spinnaker for the first time after the race this past Wedn

Re: Stus-List Boarding Ladder

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Turns out my ladder definitely does hit the rudder. In fact the rudder keeps 
the hinges from opening all the way when it's centered.  Lower two rungs are 
under water, the bottom one probably 18" deep.

Cheers,
Randy

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 13, 2016, at 6:42 AM, RANDY via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> Hi Ali,
> 
> I have a 1972 C&C 30 Mk. I, hull #7, with a hinging swim ladder in the middle 
> of the transom.  I don't think the bottom rung hits the rudder - I'll confirm 
> that later today.  But I worry about people stepping on the top of the 
> rudder.  Fortunately I have tiller steering, so I can turn the rudder through 
> 360 degrees.  So I turn it around 180 degrees backward when I have the ladder 
> down, to keep it out of the way.  I also do that when backing the boat - it 
> makes steering easier when backing.  My only issue with the swim ladder is 
> that, when folded up, it's in the way of where the flag staff would go.  So I 
> have to fly my ensign from the backstay.  You might consider mounting the 
> ladder to starboard on the transom so it doesn't interfere with the flag 
> staff.  On the other hand, centering it looks better, makes it easier to tie 
> up when folded, and probably makes it easier to climb into the cockpit.
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy Stafford
> S/V Grenadine
> C&C 30-1 #7
> Ken Caryl, CO
> 
> From: "Alan Zuas via CnC-List" 
> To: "cnc-list" 
> Cc: "Alan Zuas" 
> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 11:29:51 PM
> Subject: Stus-List Boarding Ladder
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> I am relatively new to sailing and the boat life, and this is my first post 
> here. I have a C&C 30' 1976 and love the boat. I have been working on 
> different projects, and now I'd to install a boarding ladder on my boat. I 
> looked around the marina and noticed a lot of people have their ladders right 
> in the middle of the transom. I am a little hesitant since the rudder seems 
> to be somewhat large and the last ladder rung might touch it or make it 
> difficult for someone to get on the ladder. I was wondering what you think 
> about this, and if you have ideas on where I should install the ladder. 
> the ladder is 3 feet long and 1 foot wide and has a hinge to drop it in 
> water. 
> 
> Thank you,
> Ali
> C&C 30 1976
> Seattle
> 
> 
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> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MKI on ebay

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

What's her hull number Robert? The eBay listing says she's a 1972 boat.  With 
an Atomic 4 I assume?

Good looking boat :)

Cheers,
Randy

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Robert Gallagher via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> My previous boat just came up on eBay.  It's still in my harbor and I was 
> just on board a few days ago.  Still in decent shape enough shaper and the 
> engine seems to be running great.
> 
> This could be a great deal if it goes this cheap.  Unless there is something 
> wrong that I don't know about, this is really a $5K+ boat.
> 
> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-c-c-30mki-sailboat-/331948788995?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d49b08d03:g:zn0AAOSwgZ1XvLfS&item=331948788995
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MKI on ebay

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Nevermind, I see she's hull #44, with an Atomic 4, located in CT.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2016, at 7:36 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> What's her hull number Robert? The eBay listing says she's a 1972 boat.  With 
> an Atomic 4 I assume?
> 
> Good looking boat :)
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2016, at 6:48 PM, Robert Gallagher via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> My previous boat just came up on eBay.  It's still in my harbor and I was 
>> just on board a few days ago.  Still in decent shape enough shaper and the 
>> engine seems to be running great.
>> 
>> This could be a great deal if it goes this cheap.  Unless there is something 
>> wrong that I don't know about, this is really a $5K+ boat.
>> 
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/1972-c-c-30mki-sailboat-/331948788995?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d49b08d03:g:zn0AAOSwgZ1XvLfS&item=331948788995
>> ___
>> 
>> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
>> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
>> are greatly appreciated!
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you like 
> what we do, please help us pay for our costs by donating. All Contributions 
> are greatly appreciated!
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Stus-List A4 Slips Out of Gear

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Listers-

My Atomic-4 slips out of gear in forward if I open the throttle too much, 
especially under heavy load. It's not really a problem, because I don't need 
that much throttle. But I'm just wondering if this a common and fixable issue, 
or a safety feature, or what.

Cheers,
Randy

Sent from my iPhone

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Stus-List More Pictures

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Listers-

With all humility due of a C&C owner :) I’ve added two more pictures of 
Grenadine to the end of 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTVnJfSm9lRnZNa1E.  In the first 
one, Trish Dishman captured me leaving the Chatfield Marina channel with Mt. 
Morrison and a nice thunderhead in the background.  The world-famous Red Rocks 
Amphitheater sits at the foot of Mt. Morrison (to the left of Grenadine’s 
mast).  That picture shows how beamy a 30-1 is.  In other words, my girl has a 
wide midsection.  She’s built for comfort *and* speed.  Two Saturday mornings 
ago I saw 7+ knots on the SailTimer app in 20 knots apparent wind (close 
reach).  The second picture, also courtesy Trish Dishman, was on the afternoon 
I discovered my batteries were dead.  But conditions were perfect for leaving 
the slip under sail power, so I did.  Colorado Sail and Yacht Club was taking 
out a Boy Scout troop, so I had some pressure on :)  Even though we’ve only got 
lakes to sail on in Colorado, you can see we’ve got some beauty around.

Cheers,
Randy
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Re: Stus-List C&C 38 Auction

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Dang, I would seriously look at that boat if I lived in a place where I could 
sail her.  Somebody ought to grab her up and give her a little TLC.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Aug 30, 2017, at 2:29 PM, Gary Nylander via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> The boat is a bit rough BUT comes with about 20 bags of sails, some of which 
> have hardly (never?) been used (racing ones). Overall, it has a bunch of good 
> stuff on it. It was neglected by elderly owners for a few years, but 
> apparently has some serious results in the past.
>  
> Gary
> CBMM Boat Donation Volunteer
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Brian Fry 
> via CnC-List
> Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2017 8:46 AM
> To: cnc-list 
> Cc: Brian Fry 
> Subject: Stus-List C&C 38 Auction
>  
> Chesapeake Bay Maritime Museum auction on Sept 2 includes a C&C 38.
> This is a no reserve auction. I have not seen the boat, but pics are 
> available online through Flickr.
> http://cbmm.org/boat-donation/4039-cc-38-mk-ii-sloop/ 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List Garhauer Genoa Cars

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

+1.  They did me right on a rigid vang last year.  Good addition to my boat.  
I’ll go back to them for future such needs.

Randy

> On Aug 30, 2017, at 2:46 PM, svpegasus38 via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Add another satisfied Customer of Garhauer. Put one of their travelers on 
> Pegasus and loved it. Plus it looked great. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
> Doug Mountjoy 
> POYC 
> Pegasus (for sale) 
> Lf38 
> Rebecca Leah LF39 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Gary Russell via CnC-List 
> Date: 8/30/17 07:09 (GMT-08:00)
> To: C&C List 
> Cc: Gary Russell 
> Subject: Stus-List Garhauer Genoa Cars
> 
> It was posted a while ago, that Garhauer Marine no longer sells ball bearing 
> jib cars but only sold cars with plastic (Delrin) bearings.  I've found this 
> not to be completely correct.  If you really want ball bearings, you can talk 
> to Guido and he will make them for you (same price).  They prefer to sell the 
> plastic ones because many customers have had trouble installing or removing 
> the cars and losing bearings (they don't float).  He said there's not a 
> significant performance difference between ball bearing and plastic, but 
> conceded that the ball bearings were slightly better.  I ordered the ball 
> bearing version and am very happy with them.  If your are careful installing 
> them, they are easy to install and work very well.  Garhauer makes bullet 
> proof stuff at a very reasonable price.  I have no affiliation with Garhauer 
> Marine or any of their employees.  I'm just a happy customer that has 
> purchased many products from them.
> 
> Gary
> S/V Kaylarah
> '90 C&C 37+
> East Greenwich, RI, USA
> ~~~_/)~~
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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Re: Stus-List Learning to sail in a small boat

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I’ve had learning experiences on boats of many sizes.  I capsized a Hobie 16, 
then sideslipped into a mega-yacht with it, all on the same afternoon in Maho 
Bay, St. John.  Single-handing a Coronado 15 in 20 kts a couple years back, I 
capsized and couldn’t right it by myself.  A microburst knocked down the J/22 I 
was sailing several years ago on Chatfield Reservoir.  For ASA-104 I sailed a 
Bavaria 46 from Long Beach to Catalina, and slewed around in a 38-foot 
catamaran on the way back.  In 2013 I roller-coastered through 15’ waves and 
37-kt winds crossing the Bequia Channel in a Jenneau 45, burying the bow in 
every trough.  In my limited experience sailing for about the last decade, I 
think every boat can teach you something about how boats handle, comparatively.

My main complaint about dinghy sailing is that it is a lot of work before and 
after the actual sailing part.  At minimum you have to launch and rig the 
dinghy, then unrig and recover it, and possibly also tow it to / from its 
storage place.  Maybe I’m lazy, but I prefer a keelboat in a slip - a lot less 
work every time you sail it.

That said, here’s a picture from a bowsprit-mounted GoPro of my daughter and I 
sailing a Topaz dinghy in 25mph winds last month: 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTeXVMS3Z2OWdNUGs.  We didn’t 
capsize that night but we kept a rail wet the whole time :)

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO


> On Aug 30, 2017, at 3:36 PM, Mark G via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I didn't start sailing til my early 30's.  I started out in Tech dinghies, 
> cat-rigged 12 footers.  Dinghies are a great way to learn.  Things happen 
> fast in a dinghy.  And since you're the ballast, you really learn to balance 
> the boat.  But they require a certain level of fitness and athleticism - 
> particularly when you flip them and you have to right them in the water and 
> climb back in.  I then moved to 14 foot FJ's, a little more performance 
> oriented but basically more of the same.  Then to a J24, which is a 
> completely different experience: you're in a cockpit, you have a foredeck, 
> etc.  Honestly, if I hadn't graduated to the J24, I might have stopped 
> sailing.  Little bit of time in an Etchells 22 around that time as well.  
> From there I knew I didn't want to race so I moved into more 
> cruising-oriented lessons.  Boats were a 22 foot Soling, then a Pearson 26, 
> an Albin 28, a J29, a Pearson 31, a Pearson 303 and a Cal 33.  So I've taken 
> starter lessons in both a 12 footer and a 22 footer.  For an adult, I think 
> you're much better off starting in a 22 foot keelboat than a 12 foot dinghy.
> My first and only boat has been the C&C 25 Mk1.  I initially looked at 
> everything made in any kind of quantity between 21 feet and 28 feet.  I 
> settled on the 24-26 foot size.  I wanted something you could overnight in, 
> without the complexity of a diesel.  I continued to look hard at everything 
> made in any kind of quantity in that size range.  I loved boat donation 
> auctions - a chance to see a lot of boats at once without an owner or a 
> broker breathing down your neck.  And the best way to identify a 
> well-maintained boat is to see some poor ones.  After seeing my first C&C 25, 
> I settled on that make / model.  Looked at a few examples, then bought one.  
> Inexpensive, good condition, my only regret being I didn't buy a boat with 
> more upgrades.  I've since converted to jiffy reefing, put on a furler, a 
> boom vang, a stern rail, an adjustable traveler, a backstay adjuster.  This 
> stuff in total far exceeds what I paid for the boat.
> If you sail in any kind of wind, a newbie sailor needs to know how to depower 
> the boat and needs the gadgets on the boat that allow him to do so.  Newbie 
> sailors tend to sail with friends and family who know nothing about sailing 
> and won't be much help when things get exciting.  If the newbie sailor can't 
> depower the boat from the cockpit with minimal assistance from "crew" 
> (guests), they'll be terrorized and probably won't come back.
> Mark 
> C&C 25
> Dartmouth, MA
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> 
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> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
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Re: Stus-List Learning to sail in a small boat

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

+1 for racing in your local club. It gets you out regularly, immerses you in a 
community of experienced sailors, and gives you access to a variety of boats.  
Before buying Grenadine I crewed on other people’s boats for years, and learned 
a lot.   Those were J/22s, Capri-22s, and a Merit 25.  Made me think about what 
I wanted in a boat: enough accommodations below to overnight on, but still a 
performance-oriented boat.  When a spinnaker-rigged 30-1 came on the market in 
Colorado, it was perfect for me.  Now I’m paying it forward, having newbie 
regular crew and various guests on my boat for racing every Wednesday night.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Aug 30, 2017, at 7:31 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Ditto racing for improving your skills.
> 
> I crewed for several years on club race boats.  
> 
> One weekend some friends and I decided to sail to an anchorage a 2-3 hours 
> away. My boat at the time was an Alan Gurney design O'Day 27.  The other 
> boats were a Catalina 27 and a Hunter 27, each crewed by a couple.  
> 
> I was single handing.  We all left at the same time but I arrived at the 
> anchorage about an hour before the other two boats.
> 
> My race experience simply made me faster without much extra effort.  Lesson 
> learned.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Here are my 2 cents. 
> I didn't grow up sailing or on the water but was always drawn.
> After undergrad, I signed on as crew with a friend of a friend to sail his 
> Camper Nicolson 32 down the East Coast and out to the Bahamas. When I went 
> aboard I did not know how to sail and when I left 6 months later I still 
> didn't know how to sail, though I thought I did. (Offshore sailing on a 32' 
> boat with a wind vane will not teach you how to sail.)
> Later I moved to Seattle and volunteered at the Center for Wooden Boats in 
> trade for free sailing time. This is where I learned basics of sailing. Small 
> sloop rigged JK boats <https://cwb.org/exhibits/blanchard-jr-knockabout/>, 
> with proper sails, leaving and docking under sail, constantly changing winds 
> from all directions on Seattle's Lake Union. Other boats, airplanes, 
> kayakers, etc. etc. to deal with. Forces that make you learn.
> Got busy with grad school moved to Portland, got married, bought a US 27 with 
> my wife and then started sailing again. Had the basics down and felt like I 
> knew what I was doing.
> Dumped the US 27, bought a C&C 30-2.
> Then I started racing...mostly on others boats.
> Racing is taught me how to sail. I thought I knew how to sail, as others 
> think they do, but I really didn't. Racing taught me proper seamanship, 
> offshore at night with Pacific swells, currents and counter wind waves. 
> Racing taught me rights-of-way without thinking about it. Racing gives me 
> confidence in different conditions with symmetrical and asymmetrical chutes, 
> reefing, sail trim, etc, etc. Racing gets me out multiple times a week, on a 
> variety of boats, regardless of clouds in the sky, rain, high winds, or no 
> winds.
> Racing introduced me to a whole community of people, of all different 
> stripes, who love sailing. Way more than I would have met on the docks in the 
> marina. These people have become friends, on and off the water.
> My advice is to get the C&C 25' if it seems right, but do all you can to get 
> out racing on someone else's boat and smaller boats too. This is where you 
> will actually learn to sail and you meet an excellent group of people doing 
> so.
> You will also an excellent group of local C&C owners and racers, like Alan 
> and Fred in Portland. 
> 
> Best,
> Kevin
> 
> On Wed, Aug 30, 2017 at 4:07 PM Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> I’ve had learning experiences on boats of many sizes.  I capsized a Hobie 16, 
> then sideslipped into a mega-yacht with it, all on the same afternoon in Maho 
> Bay, St. John.  Single-handing a Coronado 15 in 20 kts a couple years back, I 
> capsized and couldn’t right it by myself.  A microburst knocked down the J/22 
> I was sailing several years ago on Chatfield Reservoir.  For ASA-104 I sailed 
> a Bavaria 46 from Long Beach to Catalina, and slewed around in a 38-foot 
> catamaran on the way back.  In 2013 I roller-coastered through 15’ waves and 
> 37-kt winds crossing the Bequia Channel in a Jenneau 45, burying the bow in 
> every trough.  In my limited experience sailing for about the last decade, I 
> think every boat can teach you something about how boats handle, 
> comparatively.
> 
> My main complaint about dinghy

Re: Stus-List Whereabouts???

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

31 miles up the Poudre canyon in Northern Colorado, fly-fishing and going to a 
Trevor Hall concert at the Mishawaka tomorrow night.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2017, at 10:04 AM, Ronald B. Frerker via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Just wondering about where our wandering list members are currently?
> Where are you Hank an where is Stella Blue?
> Ron
> Wild Cheri
> C&C 30-1
> STL (still)
> 
> 
> 
> From: henry evans via CnC-List 
> To: Joel Aronson via CnC-List  
> Cc: henry evans 
> Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 10:11 AM
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Irma heads up
> 
> Can you imagine how many thousands of factors must be crunched by the 
> computers to create that many spaghetti lines ?  Mind boggling. 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
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Re: Stus-List Looseness in tiller on C&C30 MK1

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Charles,

Congrats on the acquisition of a C&C 30 MK I.  I own hull #7, built in 1972. My 
boat also has tiller steering and boom-end sheeting, making for a nice roomy 
cockpit.  I’ve dealt with play in the tiller as well.  In my case it was easy 
to correct by simply tightening the nuts on the bolt fastening the tiller to 
the rudder “head”.  I didn’t have to tighten any other bolts.  The play was in 
the up-and-down motion of the tiller - if I let go of it, it would fall on 
somebody’s feet in the cockpit.  But I found that tightening those nuts also 
stiffened the tiller’s side-to-side motion, interestingly - it gave the boat 
firmer steering.

Also, welcome to the list.  The best way to share pictures is to put them on 
Google drive or similar, then include links in your posts to the list.  Here 
are a bunch of pictures of my boat Grenadine: 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTaUlpUkZJWGt5RVk 


Best Regards,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Sep 4, 2017, at 6:09 AM, Cleverboy via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Looking for some guidance on a problem with my newly acquired 73 C&C30 . I 
> Have play in the tiller and I'm trying to determine if the play is the result 
> of "egging" around the through bolt or the piece that I think is called the 
> rudder head. The rudder head is attached to the rudder shaft by 2 bolts. It 
> appears that over the 44 years of sailing some material may have worn away 
> allowing the tiller to have the sloppiness. I tried attaching 2 photos but it 
> put me wildly over the size permitted for emails.
> Any help would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Charles Ferrari
> Bronx, NY
> C&C 30 MK1
> Destrier
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List Was considering C&c 25

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Lisle,

When I bought my 30-1 I’d mostly sailed only J/22s, Capri 22s, and a Merit 25 
for about five years beforehand (other people’s boats).  Plus a couple 
week-long charters on a Beneteau 505 and a Jenneau 45 in St. Vincent and the 
Grenadines (captained charters, but I helmed all week).  And a Bavaria 46 for 
my ASA-104 course.  I didn’t consider myself a total beginner, but the first 
time I stood at the helm of the 30-1 I was considering buying, she sure looked 
a lot bigger than the little 22-footers I was used to.

For my home waters (Chatfield Reservoir in Colorado), I wanted something in the 
25-30 foot range, with enough accommodations below to weekend on comfortably.  
But I also wanted a performance-oriented boat, not a dog of a cruiser, because 
I race at least once a week April through October.  Then this spinnaker-rigged 
30-1 popped up on the market in Colorado, amazingly, and it was the perfect 
boat for me.  Plus it came with an awesome community on an email list! :)

I guess my message is don’t be afraid.  Yes, the first time I drove her into a 
slip, I was nervous.  Not so much because of her size (I’d docked the Bavaria 
46 and anchored / moored the Jenneau 45 before), but because she was my boat 
and I didn’t want to damage her.  But you learn quickly how to handle her, in a 
variety of wind conditions.  And I don’t know about the 30 MK II, but the 30 MK 
I has a reputation for being famously stiff (the marketing brochures say 
“forgiving” and “easy to sail”).  I’ve found that to be true.  Single-handing 
under full sail is no problem in light wind.  I’ve left and returned to dock 
under sail power with her.  And even with a 150% genoa up, it takes 20 knots to 
generate hard weather helm, and more than that to round up or get a rail wet.

Other listers have given good advice - buy the boat you want.  Don’t compromise 
on something temporary, and don’t be afraid.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO


> On Sep 6, 2017, at 7:16 PM, Lisle Kingery, PhD via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for all the replies, very helpful as I think (obsess) over the boat 
> options. 😀
> 
> I'm torn between the Pearson 27 and the C&c 30. As noted, the 30 is a much 
> bigger boat and maybe not the best choice for a beginnner?
> 
> My goal/plan is to learn her over the next 5-8 years on Lake Ontario and 
> Seneca lake, and then consider taking her down for longer trips down the east 
> coast cruising once the kids get older (currently 6 and 4). I'm thinking the 
> C&c would clearly better meet that long term fantasy. 
> 
> I could start with the 27 then if it works out could move up in 5-8 years but 
> wonder if it would be better to grow into a boat rather than grow out of one.
> 
> Thanks again for your replies.
> 
> Lisle
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


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Re: Stus-List An Irma story with a good ending

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thank you for sharing this, Bruce.  So glad you and your wife and the senior 
citizen residents and Tampa-area people in general were spared.  And of course 
it’s wonderful to hear that your C&C Astralis survived the hurricane.  It’s a 
valuable lesson, what is really important.

To not detract from this thread, I’ll start another thread with a not-so-good 
tale of Irma’s impact.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Sep 14, 2017, at 6:51 AM, Bruce Whitmore via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> 
> I thought I would share our story about Irma:
> 
> As we prepared for Irma late last week, we went from “It looks like it’s 
> going to miss us, but let’s prepare anyway”, to “this could be really bad, 
> but we’ll be OK at home”, to evacuation in anticipation of a catastrophic 
> hit.  In that process, we resigned ourselves to the idea that flooding and/or 
> structural damage to the house plus the total loss of our boat was highly 
> likely.  That realization was both sobering and enlightening.  We figured out 
> we could prepare for an extended uncertain future and fit much of what was 
> really important to us (other than Astralis, of course!) in one car, and we 
> gained a lot of clarity as to what is, and is not really important to us. 
>  
> Thankfully for us (though not for many here in Florida) Irma weakened 
> dramatically after ravaging Marco Island about 3:30 PM and moved inland.  We 
> were fortunate enough to be able to seek protection in a senior living 
> facility where my  wife works.  As I helped my wife assist the resident 
> senior citizens (many with memory & physical disabilities), we put on calm 
> faces while we anxiously waited for nearly 12 hours, expecting Irma to 
> devastate Tampa.  Then we watched as four things slowly happened:
>  
> Irma took a path inland a bit, robbing it of warm moisture from the Gulf, and 
> directing the eye away from Tampa
> The storm sped up from about 8 mph to 12-14 mph, indicating the storm would 
> not stay long, and its strength would dissipate
> Sheering winds bought dry air in from the east, which by late in the evening 
> could be seen as wrapping nearly all the way around the eye reducing the 
> power of the hurricane
> The winds dropped on the west/southwest side of the storm, virtually 
> eliminated the destructive storm surge that had been predicted – Massive 
> amounts of water had been sucked out of Tampa Bay, but the expected 8+ feet 
> of storm surge didn’t materialize, and it returned without much fanfare
>  
> The final chapter of this short story is that we got to Astralis, our 1994 
> C&C 37/40+ yesterday, and found that she was floating nicely, the rudder had 
> been jammed over from sitting on the sandy bottom but was otherwise OK, and 
> we there was evidence of 2 previously unknown minor deck leaks over the stern 
> berth.  Everything else was remarkably fine.  The marina had already replaced 
> a torn-out lonesome post, and it was clear to us that had the storm hit much 
> harder, things would have been very, very different. A little bit of further 
> irony struck us as we realized that when we bought her on February 1st, she 
> sat down in Marco Island.  Had we not moved her to Tampa, she would have 
> likely been a total loss.
> 
> This was our first hurricane, having moved to Florida from Chicago only 2 
> years ago.  We had a chance to see, first hand, how communities pull together 
> to prepare for hurricanes, hunker down and help ease each other’s fears as 
> they grasp the idea of losing their homes and most prized possessions, and 
> help clean up the aftermath.  Yet, our local damage is nothing like that 
> incurred by so many others across the state. 
>  
> Gratefully,
>  
> Bruce Whitmore
> 
> (847) 404-5092 (mobile)
> bwhitm...@sbcglobal.net
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Danny and Jim.  I registered on the Moyer Marine forum and will post the 
question there as well.

I doubt I cranked it enough to hydro-lock it.  When it cut out the last time, I 
cranked it twice for maybe five or six seconds each time.  Enough to suck fuel 
through if necessary, but no more.  There’s no point in continuing to crank, I 
figure, and risk running the batteries down.  If it won’t start in a few 
seconds of cranking then something is wrong.

But I didn’t know about the hydro-locking potential.  I’ll change the oil and 
pull the plugs and see what it looks like.

But even hydro-locking wouldn’t explain why the starter wouldn’t operate when I 
pushed the starter button the last time and nothing happened.  I’m inclined to 
suspect one or more faulty circuits.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Sep 18, 2017, at 11:36 AM, Jim Reinardy via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
>  
> When I owned an Atomic 4, I was told to close the water intake when cranking 
> the engine for more than a few seconds because the waterways in the block 
> were open at the top and would splash into the oil sump under heavy cranking. 
>  After a number of initial problems with water in the oil, this cleared 
> things up, so I always believed it.  
>  
> I had a similar issue with that engine cutting out.  In that case the issue 
> was a hairline crack in the rotor in the distributor.  When it heated up 
> enough, it would distort and no longer make proper contact with the points.  
>  
> I sold that boat to buy my 30-2 with a Yanmar and have never regretted it!  
> Diesels have their own challenges, but it just seems like there is a lot more 
> to wrong with an A4.
>  
> Jim Reinardy
> C&C 30-2 "FIrewater"
> Milwaukee, WI 
> - Original Message -
> Subject: Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out
> From: "Danny Haughey via CnC-List" 
> Date: 9/18/17 10:14 am
> To: "Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List" 
> Cc: "Danny Haughey" 
> 
> depending on how much cranking you did, could be hydro locked? pull the 
> plugs and see how they look and hope you don't get water out.
> 
> I did have an issue with a bad wire to the coil.  it seemed the wire 
> would heat up and beak the connection somehow after running a bit and 
> then allow it to start again after it cooled a while.  I replaced the 
> wire and it did the trick.
> 
> Danny
> 
> 
> On 9/18/2017 10:37 AM, Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List wrote:
> > I would jump over to the Moyer Marine forum for this.
> > http://www.moyermarine.com/
> >
> > Joe
> > Coquina
> > C&C 35 MK I
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Randal 
> > Stafford via CnC-List
> > Sent: Monday, September 18, 2017 10:30 AM
> > To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> > Cc: Randal Stafford 
> > Subject: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out
> >
> > Listers-
> >
> > I’m having a problem with my Atomic 4, and hoped you might have some 
> > thoughts to share.
> >
> > When I went out for a sail yesterday, she started right up, as always. But 
> > then she cut out heading away from the marina. Initially I suspected a fuel 
> > flow problem, as the petcock on the tank has become difficult to turn. 
> > After ensuring the petcock was in the open position and the tank was full, 
> > she started right up again and ran smoothly for a good 10 minutes. Then she 
> > cut out again, and wouldn’t start back up after some cranking. I sailed for 
> > a couple hours anyway. When I tried to start her to come back in, nothing 
> > happened when I pressed the starter button. I assumed my batteries didn’t 
> > have enough amperage for the starter, after all the previous cranking, 
> > though my other electronics were running fine. So I docked under sail 
> > power, pulled the batteries, and brought them home to charge. They both 
> > tested at 12.7 volts and 83% charge when I put them on my charger. Now 
> > they’re both at 100% and 12.9 volts.
> >
> > So I now suspect a faulty ignition circuit, and possibly a faulty starter 
> > circuit. Perhaps a loose connection or broken wire is having the same 
> > effect as pushing in the ignition switch. I’ve yet to get into the 
> > lazarette and start tracing the wiring and testing with a multimeter, but 
> > that’s my next step. I thought I’d write the list first to see if anyone 
> > has any quick hypotheses.
> >
> > Thanks in Advance,
> > Randy Stafford
> > S/V Grenadine
> > C&C 301- #7
> > Ken Caryl, CO
> > ___
> >
> > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
> > wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
> > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> >
> > All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> > ___
> >
> > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
> > wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to: 
> > https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> >
> > All Contributions are greatly appreciated

Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Doug,

No noise whatsoever when I pushed the starter button.  It was as if there 
wasn’t enough current to activate the starter, but the batteries *did* have 
enough charge at the time.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Sep 18, 2017, at 3:08 PM, svpegasus38 via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Randy,
> Are you getting any noise out of starter (click) when trying to start? Even 
> if you are hydro locked you should hear a click at the starter solenoid if 
> electrics are good. 
> Check the coil for cracks, check points and condenser, or electronic pick-up, 
> ignition switch for loose/bad connections.  
> Good luck. 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
> Doug Mountjoy 
> POYC 
> Pegasus (for sale) 
> Lf38 
> Rebecca Leah LF39 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Randal Stafford via CnC-List 
> Date: 9/18/17 07:29 (GMT-08:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Randal Stafford 
> Subject: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out
> 
> Listers-
> 
> I’m having a problem with my Atomic 4, and hoped you might have some thoughts 
> to share.
> 
> When I went out for a sail yesterday, she started right up, as always.  But 
> then she cut out heading away from the marina.  Initially I suspected a fuel 
> flow problem, as the petcock on the tank has become difficult to turn.  After 
> ensuring the petcock was in the open position and the tank was full, she 
> started right up again and ran smoothly for a good 10 minutes.  Then she cut 
> out again, and wouldn’t start back up after some cranking.  I sailed for a 
> couple hours anyway.  When I tried to start her to come back in, nothing 
> happened when I pressed the starter button.  I assumed my batteries didn’t 
> have enough amperage for the starter, after all the previous cranking, though 
> my other electronics were running fine.  So I docked under sail power, pulled 
> the batteries, and brought them home to charge.  They both tested at 12.7 
> volts and 83% charge when I put them on my charger.  Now they’re both at 100% 
> and 12.9 volts.
> 
> So I now suspect a faulty ignition circuit, and possibly a faulty starter 
> circuit.  Perhaps a loose connection or broken wire is having the same effect 
> as pushing in the ignition switch.  I’ve yet to get into the lazarette and 
> start tracing the wiring and testing with a multimeter, but that’s my next 
> step.  I thought I’d write the list first to see if anyone has any quick 
> hypotheses.
> 
> Thanks in Advance,
> Randy Stafford
> S/V Grenadine
> C&C 301- #7
> Ken Caryl, CO
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
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Re: Stus-List Winter storage of mast

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

The mast for my C&C 30 MK I is about 43’ and weighs probably 200+ pounds.  Two 
guys can lift it (when it’s horizontal) but not for very long and they can’t 
move it very far.

When I bought the boat and moved it to my lake, we built some cradles for the 
mast to lay above the deck and cabin top, on centerline, with the weight off 
the pulpits (slightly visible at 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTb294M1Z6N0UtV0U 
).

Last offseason I pulled the mast out and laid it along the boat trailer’s frame 
rail and a stack of blocks by the trailer’s tongue, in the boatyard.  I moved 
it there on a separate long flatbed trailer, and my crew and I lifted it off 
the flatbed and laid it on the blocks.

This spring the flatbed wasn’t available, so we built some 2x4 trestles off the 
starboard side of the boat trailer, U-bolted to the bunk supports, and 
transported mast and boat to the gin pole at the same time.  I have a 38’ 
trailer so we were able to do that with minimal overhang on each end.

This coming offseason I’ll pull the mast again, and transport it the same way 
to the boatyard, and probably put it on blocks so it’s out of the way for hull 
painting.  Drainage is a good idea.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Sep 20, 2017, at 7:47 AM, PETER OCAMPO via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello all
> 
> I have a c&c 40  1983 w roller furler harken and I am wondering if anyone 
> brings their mast home on the pulpits  for storage  or is that not recommended
> 
> I have so much work to do on the boat for the winter I would prefer having it 
> at the house.  
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Peter
> 
> Goonie island  1983 C&c 40 aft cabin
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

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Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Update on this - went down to the boat today, pulled plugs, changed oil.  No 
sign whatsoever of water in the engine.  Then on testing, she started right up, 
ran smoothly at idle for several minutes, then shut down suddenly.  And 
wouldn’t restart after a few short cranking attempts (with raw water intake 
closed).  From that I was relieved that the starter and solenoid and starter 
circuit were working, and the ignition circuits.

Per Occam’s Razor I removed and inspected the fuel petcock, as it’s been 
troublesome this year (it became increasingly difficult to turn, then suddenly 
easier to turn, hmmm…).  I believe it to be the culprit.  It was stuck in what 
appeared to be a closed position, and turning its handle didn’t change that.  I 
suspect it may have been just open enough to allow the fuel line to fill, given 
enough time.  But once the engine consumed the fuel in the line, it wasn’t open 
enough to keep supplying the engine.

I bought a new fuel shut-off valve from West Marine and will install it 
tomorrow and report back.  As for my starter not working Sunday when I pushed 
the button, I’ll let that remain a mystery unless it happens again.  Maybe I 
didn’t have the ignition switch pulled out far enough when I pressed the button.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Sep 18, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Randal Stafford via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Listers-
> 
> I’m having a problem with my Atomic 4, and hoped you might have some thoughts 
> to share.
> 
> When I went out for a sail yesterday, she started right up, as always.  But 
> then she cut out heading away from the marina.  Initially I suspected a fuel 
> flow problem, as the petcock on the tank has become difficult to turn.  After 
> ensuring the petcock was in the open position and the tank was full, she 
> started right up again and ran smoothly for a good 10 minutes.  Then she cut 
> out again, and wouldn’t start back up after some cranking.  I sailed for a 
> couple hours anyway.  When I tried to start her to come back in, nothing 
> happened when I pressed the starter button.  I assumed my batteries didn’t 
> have enough amperage for the starter, after all the previous cranking, though 
> my other electronics were running fine.  So I docked under sail power, pulled 
> the batteries, and brought them home to charge.  They both tested at 12.7 
> volts and 83% charge when I put them on my charger.  Now they’re both at 100% 
> and 12.9 volts.
> 
> So I now suspect a faulty ignition circuit, and possibly a faulty starter 
> circuit.  Perhaps a loose connection or broken wire is having the same effect 
> as pushing in the ignition switch.  I’ve yet to get into the lazarette and 
> start tracing the wiring and testing with a multimeter, but that’s my next 
> step.  I thought I’d write the list first to see if anyone has any quick 
> hypotheses.
> 
> Thanks in Advance,
> Randy Stafford
> S/V Grenadine
> C&C 301- #7
> Ken Caryl, CO
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Thanks Michael, I’m hoping it’s as simple as a stuck fuel petcock cutting off 
fuel flow.

There is also this good troubleshooting procedure on Moyer Marine’s site: 
http://www.moyermarine.com/newsletters/2-1-14.html.  First disambiguates fuel 
vs. ignition problem, then delves deeper based on what kind of problem it is.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Sep 21, 2017, at 5:27 PM, Michael Cotton via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> You could do a short crank and stop then CAREFULLY feel the starters cables 
> for heat(don't forget the ground).  Intermittent no crank could also be 
> inside the starter solenoid. One more thing on the no start but cranking. If 
> you are still using a distributor with points the symptom you are giving 
> sounds like  a bad condenser. I used to have a 12v engine analyzer scope. It 
> was wicked good at solving these kinds of problem. Good luck.
> Michael Cotton
> 
> On Thursday, September 21, 2017, 5:09:54 PM MDT, svpegasus38 via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Glad you found the problem.  
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my T-Mobile 4G LTE Device
> Doug Mountjoy 
> POYC 
> Pegasus (for sale) 
> Lf38 
> Rebecca Leah LF39 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
> Date: 9/21/17 15:40 (GMT-08:00)
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Cc: Randy Stafford 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out
> 
> Update on this - went down to the boat today, pulled plugs, changed oil.  No 
> sign whatsoever of water in the engine.  Then on testing, she started right 
> up, ran smoothly at idle for several minutes, then shut down suddenly.  And 
> wouldn’t restart after a few short cranking attempts (with raw water intake 
> closed).  From that I was relieved that the starter and solenoid and starter 
> circuit were working, and the ignition circuits.
> 
> Per Occam’s Razor I removed and inspected the fuel petcock, as it’s been 
> troublesome this year (it became increasingly difficult to turn, then 
> suddenly easier to turn, hmmm…).  I believe it to be the culprit.  It was 
> stuck in what appeared to be a closed position, and turning its handle didn’t 
> change that.  I suspect it may have been just open enough to allow the fuel 
> line to fill, given enough time.  But once the engine consumed the fuel in 
> the line, it wasn’t open enough to keep supplying the engine.
> 
> I bought a new fuel shut-off valve from West Marine and will install it 
> tomorrow and report back.  As for my starter not working Sunday when I pushed 
> the button, I’ll let that remain a mystery unless it happens again.  Maybe I 
> didn’t have the ignition switch pulled out far enough when I pressed the 
> button.
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy
> 
> > On Sep 18, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Randal Stafford via CnC-List 
> >  wrote:
> > 
> > Listers-
> > 
> > I’m having a problem with my Atomic 4, and hoped you might have some 
> > thoughts to share.
> > 
> > When I went out for a sail yesterday, she started right up, as always.  But 
> > then she cut out heading away from the marina.  Initially I suspected a 
> > fuel flow problem, as the petcock on the tank has become difficult to turn. 
> >  After ensuring the petcock was in the open position and the tank was full, 
> > she started right up again and ran smoothly for a good 10 minutes.  Then 
> > she cut out again, and wouldn’t start back up after some cranking.  I 
> > sailed for a couple hours anyway.  When I tried to start her to come back 
> > in, nothing happened when I pressed the starter button.  I assumed my 
> > batteries didn’t have enough amperage for the starter, after all the 
> > previous cranking, though my other electronics were running fine.  So I 
> > docked under sail power, pulled the batteries, and brought them home to 
> > charge.  They both tested at 12.7 volts and 83% charge when I put them on 
> > my charger.  Now they’re both at 100% and 12.9 volts.
> > 
> > So I now suspect a faulty ignition circuit, and possibly a faulty starter 
> > circuit.  Perhaps a loose connection or broken wire is having the same 
> > effect as pushing in the ignition switch.  I’ve yet to get into the 
> > lazarette and start tracing the wiring and testing with a multimeter, but 
> > that’s my next step.  I thought I’d write the list first to see if anyone 
> > has any quick hypotheses.
> > 
> > Thanks in Advance,
> > Randy Stafford
> > S/V Grenadine
> > C&C 301- #7
> > Ken Caryl, CO
> > ___
> > 
> > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
> > wish to make a contributio

Re: Stus-List question about a C&C 30 mkii keel

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Hi Lisle,

I couldn’t confirm by looking at the third picture (of the keel) in the 
YachtWorld listing, but I suspect that is the seam between the actual lead keel 
and the fiberglass keel stub that is part of the hull.  The keel bolts to the 
hull at that keel stub.  That seam looks pretty darn good to me.  Google “C&C 
smile” and you’ll see worse seams, for example here’s a DIY article on fixing 
one: http://cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/smile/index.htm 
.

If you’re not already considering this, I might recommend you hire a reputable 
professional marine surveyor to survey the boat.  It might cost you $1000, but 
that will buy you peace of mind.  The survey would hopefully identify any 
deal-breaking issues with the boat, or else give you reassurance that you’re 
buying a sound boat.  If you buy the boat, the survey might give you an initial 
list of things that need attention, and a good survey report is generally 
valuable to have if you ever go to sell the boat.  In fact you should ask the 
seller to see any previous survey reports.

That is a good-looking boat.  I love the interior - it makes my 1972 C&C 30 MK 
I look quite spartan in comparison.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Sep 21, 2017, at 5:37 PM, Lisle Kingery, PhD via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> More questions from an aspiring C&C owner. :)
> 
> I'm considering this 1987 C&C 30mkii and overall it looks interesting. 
> 
> http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/C%26C-30-3079275/Rochester/NY/United-States#.WcRLTWiPJPY
>  
> 
> 
> I'm stuck with a draft of 5 or under where I'll be keeping the eventual 
> sailboat I get and this is the only wing keel version I see available at 
> least reasonably nearby. 
> 
> I have a question about what appears to be at least a surface crack along the 
> middle of the keel that goes pretty much the entire length of the keel. 
> 
> I've pasted the picture into the email below but not sure if that is going to 
> show up on the listserv. 
> 
> If not, if anyone familiar with this model in particular could let me know if 
> you could take a quick look at the picture and provide an opinion on normal 
> vs. abnormal I could email pics. Thanks for your consideration.
> 
> Lisle
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish 
> to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you wish to 
make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All Contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List question about a C&C 30 mkii keel

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Torque specs are here: 
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/doityourself/torquebolts/torquebolts.htm 


I used those when I torqued Grenadine’s keel bolts this past offseason (while 
she was on her trailer).  You’ll generally need a torque wrench that goes up to 
some pretty high torque numbers, with a long handle / breaker bar / pipe 
extension.  The right size wrench probably has 3/4” or 1” drive, so you’ll need 
sockets in the right size and drive size for the nuts, plus socket extensions 
in the right drive size, and any drive size adapters if necessary.  I was able 
to rent all that stuff from a local rental place for a half day for about $50 I 
think it was.  I wrote about it here: 
http://cnc-list.com/pipermail/cnc-list_cnc-list.com/2017-April/092139.html 


Cheers,
Randy

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 12:37 PM, David Miles via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Great explanation.
> What is the correct torque to apply?
> Thx.
> David
> C&C30MK2 Impulse
> 
> On September 22, 2017 11:23:45 AM Rick Brass via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> 
>> Lisle;
>>  
>> As others have said, you appear to be looking at the C&C Smile. That is a 
>> crack in the bottom paint or fairing compound covering the joint where the 
>> top of the lead keel meets the bottom of the fiberglass keel stub. As these 
>> things go, yours appears to be pretty minor. On older boats with a swept 
>> back keel, I’ve seen gaps at the leading edge of the joint of a quarter inch 
>> or so.
>>  
>> The probable cause is that the tension on the keel bolts is too low. When 
>> the boat was built, a sealing compound was put between the top of the keel 
>> and the bottom of the hull, and the bolts were torqued tight. As the boat 
>> heels when sailing, the keel flexes slightly to the side, and the bolts tend 
>> to lose torque over time. That leads to the crack – the C&C Smile – in the 
>> hard paint or fairing compound covering the joint. On older boats with the 
>> swept back keel, the crack can be accentuated if the boat is blocked at the 
>> back of the keel, or with too much of the boat’s weight supported to far 
>> back. Some of the listers have indicated damage to the keel stub from hard 
>> groundings, but I don’t see any real evidence of that in your photos.
>>  
>> The condition can be cosmetic, or a real problem. Probably cosmetic in well 
>> over 90% of the time. You can tell if it is a real problem if you put the 
>> boat in the water and water leaks into the bilge from the joint.
>>  
>> The solution is to torque the bolts properly, and retorque them 
>> periodically. My 38 had a fairly large smile when I bought her in 2003. The 
>> bolts got retorqued when I had some keel work done in 2004. Again in about 
>> 2009, when we also opened up a small groove along the smile, put 5200 sealer 
>> in the groove, faired the joint, and applied a layer of glass cloth from the 
>> leading edge of the joint to about 2 feet back  to address the cosmetic 
>> issues. No smile when the bottom was painted in 2013. A slight crack was 
>> evident last winter when I painted the bottom, and a little water seeped out 
>> of the 5200 sealer – so I retorqued the bolts again (it had been 8 years 
>> after all) and applied another layer of glass before the bottom paint. 
>>  
>> If you find you have a water leak – which I suspect is not likely given the 
>> appearance of the smile, the fix is to drop the keel, apply 5200 as a new 
>> layer of sealer, and torque the bolts properly. That stops the leak, but 
>> won’t stop the smile (5200, after all, is flexible and that is what causes 
>> the smile). Fairing and a fiberglass band over the joint will eliminate the 
>> cosmetic issues so long as you retorque the bolts every few years into the 
>> future.
>>  
>> As others have said, get a good survey. You are already paying a relatively 
>> high price for  late 80s boat, and I really doubt that putting another $5000 
>> or more into rebidding the keel would be a desirable activity.
>>  
>> Bruce;
>>  
>> The reason that torqueing the bolts while on the hard is preferable to doing 
>> it in the water might be that, when in the water, a goodly portion of the 
>> effort is directed at supporting the weight of the keel instead of applying 
>> force to the seal. On the hard, with the weight of the boat holding the keel 
>> tightly to the stub, you would tend to get a tighter seal and more tension 
>> on the bolts, which should slow down the inevitable loosening of the bolts 
>> as the keel moves around while sailing – and thus require less frequent 
>> torqueing or reduce the development of the next smile.
>>  
>> Rick Brass
>> Washington, NC
>>  
>>  
>>  
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Bruce Whitmore via 
>> CnC-List
>> Sent: Friday, September 

Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Score another point for Occam’s Razor.  With the new fuel petcock she purred 
like a kitten again today, for an hour with no shutdown or issue.  And now she 
has 50 psi fresh oil at idle.  Cleaned her up and got her all ready for CSYC’s 
Autumn Winds Regatta tomorrow Michael.

Thanks all for the input.  Turned out to be a fuel supply issue, and a lucky / 
educated guess as to what was wrong.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Sep 21, 2017, at 8:09 PM, Michael Cotton via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Went through Moyers years ago. Absolutely great stuff. A short cut for 
> ignition problems is an induction timing light. You have spark or you don't. 
> Can't wait to find out what is wrong.
> Michael
> 
> On Thursday, September 21, 2017, 7:30:46 PM MDT, Paul Fountain via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> If the fuel hose is original replace it to - the inner wall can collapse and 
> starve the engine ... 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
> <mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com>] On Behalf Of Randy Stafford via 
> CnC-List
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2017 6:40 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com <mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>
> Cc: Randy Stafford  <mailto:randy.staff...@comcast.net>>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List A4 Cutting Out
> 
> Update on this - went down to the boat today, pulled plugs, changed oil.  No 
> sign whatsoever of water in the engine.  Then on testing, she started right 
> up, ran smoothly at idle for several minutes, then shut down suddenly.  And 
> wouldn’t restart after a few short cranking attempts (with raw water intake 
> closed).  From that I was relieved that the starter and solenoid and starter 
> circuit were working, and the ignition circuits.
> 
> Per Occam’s Razor I removed and inspected the fuel petcock, as it’s been 
> troublesome this year (it became increasingly difficult to turn, then 
> suddenly easier to turn, hmmm…).  I believe it to be the culprit.  It was 
> stuck in what appeared to be a closed position, and turning its handle didn’t 
> change that.  I suspect it may have been just open enough to allow the fuel 
> line to fill, given enough time.  But once the engine consumed the fuel in 
> the line, it wasn’t open enough to keep supplying the engine.
> 
> I bought a new fuel shut-off valve from West Marine and will install it 
> tomorrow and report back.  As for my starter not working Sunday when I pushed 
> the button, I’ll let that remain a mystery unless it happens again.  Maybe I 
> didn’t have the ignition switch pulled out far enough when I pressed the 
> button.
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy
> 
> > On Sep 18, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Randal Stafford via CnC-List 
> > mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> > 
> > Listers-
> > 
> > I’m having a problem with my Atomic 4, and hoped you might have some 
> > thoughts to share.
> > 
> > When I went out for a sail yesterday, she started right up, as always.  But 
> > then she cut out heading away from the marina.  Initially I suspected a 
> > fuel flow problem, as the petcock on the tank has become difficult to turn. 
> >  After ensuring the petcock was in the open position and the tank was full, 
> > she started right up again and ran smoothly for a good 10 minutes.  Then 
> > she cut out again, and wouldn’t start back up after some cranking.  I 
> > sailed for a couple hours anyway.  When I tried to start her to come back 
> > in, nothing happened when I pressed the starter button.  I assumed my 
> > batteries didn’t have enough amperage for the starter, after all the 
> > previous cranking, though my other electronics were running fine.  So I 
> > docked under sail power, pulled the batteries, and brought them home to 
> > charge.  They both tested at 12.7 volts and 83% charge when I put them on 
> > my charger.  Now they’re both at 100% and 12.9 volts.
> > 
> > So I now suspect a faulty ignition circuit, and possibly a faulty starter 
> > circuit.  Perhaps a loose connection or broken wire is having the same 
> > effect as pushing in the ignition switch.  I’ve yet to get into the 
> > lazarette and start tracing the wiring and testing with a multimeter, but 
> > that’s my next step.  I thought I’d write the list first to see if anyone 
> > has any quick hypotheses.
> > 
> > Thanks in Advance,
> > Randy Stafford
> > S/V Grenadine
> > C&C 301- #7
> > Ken Caryl, CO
> > ___
> > 
> > This list is supported by the generous donations of our members. If you 
> > wish to make a contribution to offset our costs, please go to:  
> > https://www.paypa

Stus-List Test Message - Please Ignore

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I subscribed to the list with a new email address and unsubscribed the previous 
email address.  Plus set up a new rule in the new email account to move Stu’s 
List traffic to a folder.  Just checking to see if it all worked.

Cheers,
Randy
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Test Message 2 - Please Ignore

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I subscribed to the list with a new email address and unsubscribed the previous 
email address.  Plus set up a new rule in the new email account to move Stu’s 
List traffic to a folder.  Just checking to see if it all worked.  I’m sending 
this one from the previous email address to see if the unsubscribe was 
successful.

Cheers,
Randy
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List Test Message 3 - Please Ignore

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I subscribed to the list with a new email address and unsubscribed the previous 
email address.  Plus set up a new rule in the new email account to move Stu’s 
List traffic to a folder.  Just checking to see if it all worked.

This message, like the fist message, is from the new account.  Testing to see 
if it still gets delivered to the previous account, as the first one did (the 
first unsubscribe attempt was unsuccessful).

Cheers,
Randy
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List How the Cookie Crumbles

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Yesterday was my turn to be Race Committee in my club’s fall series.  It was 
blowing 20-30mph, gusting 30-40mph.  And I was stuck running the races from the 
RC boat, instead of racing my 30-1.  It was easily the windiest day in a CSYC 
race this year.  Everyone was way de-powered and still rounding up.  I ran two 
races of length about 45 minutes each.  If I’d been able to race Grenadine, I’m 
pretty sure I could have beat the fleet by 8-10 minutes in those races, flying 
probably a single-reefed main and working jib (or maybe even 130% genoa).  I 
chose my RC date way back in April.  That’s how the cookie crumbles.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO
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All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Charter from Grenada

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Yes. I have chartered in the Grenadines twice, basing from St. Vincent (as 
opposed to Grenada).  It’s probably my favorite place in the world.  The 
islands are unspoiled and charming.  The scenery is beautiful; the snorkeling 
spectacular.  The islands are laid out basically north/south, and the winds are 
basically easterly, so most passages are reaches.  And the passages are 
generally short - a half-day at most.  Navigation is generally line-of-sight, 
but there are some submerged hazards here and there.  Make sure to have the 
right charts and get a briefing.  The sailing is spectacular, especially if 
you’re there during the “Christmas Winds”.  Be sure to anchor at the Tobago 
Cays, and at Saltwhistle Bay, Mayreau.  And be sure to visit Bequia.  It’s 
partly because of those charters that I named my boat Grenadine (the other part 
is that she’s red, as is the Grenadine syrup with which I make rum punch :)

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 3:12 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi- We are considering a charter from Grenada cruising up through the 
> Grenadines this winter.  Does anyone on the list have experience with this 
> area?  Thanks- Dave
> 
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Charter from Grenada

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Agree St. Vincent can be skipped.  Kingstown is ok, but up the northeast side 
e.g. Wallilabou and farther north it gets sketchy.  All the other islands are 
generally safe, but lock your companionway when ashore on Mayreau from 
Saltwhistle Bay.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Oct 4, 2017, at 4:32 PM, Andrew Burton via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes. It's lovely. A bit more challenging than the VI, but well worth it. 
> Grenada itself is really worthwhile, too. There are a bunch of articles on 
> Grenada by Don Street on the Cruising world web site that may help. 
> Definitely spend as little time as possible in St Vincent. Get there the day 
> you fly out, if you can. A good old friend lives is a native of Bequia and 
> big into promoting sailing there. You would probably enjoy meeting him and 
> some of the kids he's coaching. I'll put you in touch should you head down.
> Andy
> C&C 40
> Peregrine
> 
> On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 5:12 PM, David Knecht via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Hi- We are considering a charter from Grenada cruising up through the 
> Grenadines this winter.  Does anyone on the list have experience with this 
> area?  Thanks- Dave
> 
> Aries
> 1990 C&C 34+
> New London, CT
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Andrew Burton
> 61 W Narragansett Ave
> Newport, RI
> USA 02840
> http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ 
> 
> phone  +401 965 5260
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
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All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Stus-List George Cuthbertson Photo

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

I nominate this shot of Grenadine (C&C 30 MK I hull #7, built September 1972, 
HIN 30007972).  It shows the design of the boat, and where all in the world C&C 
boats ended up after 45 years.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTb294M1Z6N0UtV0U

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Oct 6, 2017, at 8:06 AM, Joe Della Barba via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Send them to my home address – j...@dellabarba.com 
> 
> Bigger the better, no need to shrink them down.
> Please put George Cuthbertson Photo in the subject. 
> Also write a brief note about you and your boat and I’ll work the text in 
> someplace TBD.
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> j...@dellabarba.com 
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
> ] On Behalf Of bushmark4--- via CnC-List
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 10:01 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: bushma...@aol.com 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Re George Cuthbertson
>  
> OK; I'm in, where do I send my photo...?  And thank you!
>  
> Richard
> 
> Richard N. Bush  
> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
> 502-584-7255
>  
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List  >
> To: cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: Della Barba, Joe  >
> Sent: Fri, Oct 6, 2017 9:53 am
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Re George Cuthbertson
> 
> If I do it with my Adorama account, they would be available for purchase too 
> for anyone that wanted their own.
>  
>  
> Joe Della Barba
> Coquina C&C 35 MK I
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
> ] On Behalf Of John Christopher via 
> CnC-List
> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 9:49 AM
> To: Joe Della Barba mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>>
> Cc: John Christopher mailto:phygi...@gmail.com>>; 
> cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Re George Cuthbertson
>  
> That’s a great idea!
>  
> /J
> 
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 9:25 AM, Joe Della Barba  > wrote:
>> I was thinking everyone send in a photo of their boat and making a big 
>> composite framed or gallery wrap photo. 
>>  
>>  
>> Joe Della Barba
>> j...@dellabarba.com 
>> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
>> ] On Behalf Of Frederick G Street via 
>> CnC-List
>> Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 8:44 AM
>> To: ahycrace--- via CnC-List > >
>> Cc: Frederick G Street mailto:f...@postaudio.net>>
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Re George Cuthbertson
>>  
>> Sign me up, too.
>>  
>> — Fred
>> 
>> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
>> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- Bayfield, WI
>>  
>>> On Oct 6, 2017, at 7:38 AM, bushmark4--- via CnC-List 
>>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>>>  
>>> Joe and fellow C&C-ers...I think that's an excellent idea: and I would be 
>>> wiling to contribute to a tribute/rememberance of some type; either to his 
>>> family or a public acknowledgment of his contributions to our sailing 
>>> world; I know that I have lived and enjoyed the legacy of his designs for 
>>> over 30 years; I don't know anything about his family or what would be 
>>> appropriate but open to ideas: perhaps a plaque at his yacht club mentioned 
>>> in the article?
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Richard
>>> s/v Bushmark4: C&C 37 CB; Ohio River Mile 584.4;
>>> 
>>> Richard N. Bush
>>> 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite Nine
>>> Louisville, Kentucky 40220-1462 
>>> 502-584-7255
>>>  
>>>  
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Joe Della Barba via CnC-List >> >
>>> To: cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
>>> Cc: Joe Della Barba mailto:j...@dellabarba.com>>
>>> Sent: Fri, Oct 6, 2017 7:37 am
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Re George Cuthbertson
>>> Any ideas for anything we could send?
>>> J
>>>  
>>> On 10/06/2017 07:28 AM, Dreuge via CnC-List wrote:
 http://www.sailingscuttlebutt.com/2017/10/05/eight-bells-george-cuthbertson/
  
 
  
  
  
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 6:39 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com 
>  wrote:
>  
> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 01:33:00 + (UTC)
> From: Don Harben  >
> To: mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Re George Cuthbertson.
> Message-ID: <778445485.2331028.1507253580...@mail.yahoo.com 
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> Eight Bells: George Cuthbertson >> Scuttlebutt Sailing News?
> 
> ___
> 
> Th

Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 Shade

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Yes that is the same configuration Grenadine has.  I suspect the long boom was 
to accommodate boom-end sheeting.  Grenadine’s mainsheet runs from the aft end 
of the boom, with the traveler at the aft end of the cockpit.  I like that 
because, along with tiller steering, it makes for a very roomy cockpit.

The E dimension on a C&C 30 MK I is 11.5 feet.  The foot of Grenadine’s current 
main falls short of that by maybe six inches, so it looks even worse (a lot of 
nekkid boom aft).  I think that might be because some previous owner raised the 
boom a foot from its original height (which C&C started doing from the factory 
after Grenadine was built), and might have just lopped off the bottom foot of 
the main to go with the higher boom, thereby shortening the sail’s foot.  I’ll 
probably get a new main this offseason - Grenadine has already been measured 
for it, and for damn sure I’ll get every last millimeter of that class-standard 
E dimension.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Oct 8, 2017, at 3:50 PM, Cleverboy via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> I also have a 30-1 from '73 and would like to see how you mounted the bimini. 
> My boom was originally a boom that could roll the main around it (the boom 
> has a fitting near the mast the you attach a handle to and roll up the mast) 
> Of course, with three reefing points and boom vang, we don;t use it. My boom 
> also appears VERY long for the main. There is an screw type outhaul at the 
> end with about 15 inches beyond the clew end of the main. Is this familiar to 
> any other members???
> 
> From: CnC-List  > on behalf of Steven A. Demore via 
> CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Sent: Sunday, October 8, 2017 2:48:05 AM
> To: 'Aaron Rouhi'; cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: Steven A. Demore
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 Shade
>  
> Thanks Aaron!
>   <>
> From: Aaron Rouhi [mailto:admiralmag...@outlook.com 
> ] 
> Sent: Saturday, October 7, 2017 7:39 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List C&C 30 MK1 Shade
>  
> I have a Bimini and Dodger on my 30-1. The Bimini is made by Genco Marine 
> (they have made tons of these for C&Cs have patterns on file) and Dodger is 
> custom made locally by Bacon Sails. The Bimini is attached to the rail and 
> has slots for my double backstay adjustor...  
>  
> I will dig up some photos for you...  
>  
> Cheers, 
> Aaron
> Admiral Maggie
> 79 30-1
> Annapolis, MD
> 
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 8:21 PM, Steven A. Demore via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> 
> Curious as to whether anybody has a bimini/dodger on a 30 MK1 and if so, how 
> it is built.  Looking to put one on my boat, but with the low boom and the 
> main sheet in the middle of the cockpit, not sure how it would be laid out. 
>  
> Thanks,
> Steve
>  
> SV Doin’ It Right
> 1973 C&C 30 MK1
> Pasadena, MD
> 
>  
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Gotta Love These Hurricanes

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Very glad to hear that, Bob and Dennis!

Cheers,
Randy

> On Oct 8, 2017, at 7:29 PM, Bob Caughran via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Amen to that!!!
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Oct 8, 2017, at 18:38, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Touche' also escaped unscathed.  Dock neighbor emailed me all is well.  Was 
>> worried one of the "derelict" liveaboard boats anchored astern of me would 
>> break loose.  Wind would have carried it towards Touche's pier.
>> 
>> Saw 40 mph steady and gusts to 53 mph at Pensacola Naval Air Station.  Water 
>> level rose less than 3 feet.
>> 
>> All in all, Nate wasn't overly destructive.  Some localized damage on the 
>> Mississippi Coast but could have been worse.
>> 
>> Let's hope we're done for the year.
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>> ___
>> 
>> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
>> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
>> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send 
>> contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
>> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Gotta Love These Hurricanes

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Meanwhile in Colorado: beautiful day for CSYC’s annual pursuit race yesterday.  
Sunny, temps in the 70s, breezes at 10kts gusting 15.  Today: freezing temps, 
several inches of wet heavy snow on the ground, tree limbs breaking.

Two more Sunday races left, then hauling out by Halloween.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Oct 9, 2017, at 9:20 AM, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> We had Turkey Trot (Canadian Thanksgiving!) races yesterday and today. 
> Yesterday we had 20-30 kt. winds most of the day, with temperatures over 20 C 
> - as Michael said - October sailing in short sleeves! Today the remnants of 
> Nate arrived - no wind (0-4 kt.) and rain. Not much of a sailing weather.
>  
> I went for a quick spin before starting decommissioning for winter. Sad time 
> of the year.
>  
> Btw. our Club is about 2 km from Britannia. When they recorded that 85 kt. 
> wind, at our Club the top recorded wind was around 45 kt. Nothing to report 
> in our Club (short of a few jibs unfurling). In Britannia, a number of boats 
> were damaged (one fell off the cradle, a mast broken, many a stantion bent, 
> numerous dinghies strewn around).
>  
> Marek
> 1994 C270 “Legato”
> Ottawa, ON
>  
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Brown via CnC-List  >
> To: cnc-list mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: Michael Brown mailto:m...@tkg.ca>>
> Sent: Mon, Oct 9, 2017 10:50 am
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Gotta Love These Hurricanes
> 
> Winds have been up this year. I went for the last sail of the season then 
> un-stepped the mast yesterday.
> At 5 AM Sunday the Toronto Island Airport which is across the Western Gap 
> from the National Yacht Club
> recorded a 47 mph gust, 32 mph winds. The forecast was for the wind to ease 
> in the afternoon to under
> 10 knots east, we enjoyed upwards to 20 knots south. Nice sailing in short 
> sleeves on October 8th.
> 
> A couple of weeks back on September 27th we had the last race of the fall 
> series with a storm line crossing
> the province. Winds were consistently into the 20s  though we wondered if 
> there would be a significant
> gust. The storm continued east towards Ottawa and the Britannia Yacht Club 
> where a downburst hit
> them with a 100 mph gust and 87 mph for over a minute.
> 
> Hopefully not the new norm.
> 
> Michael Brown
> Windburn
> C&C 30-1
> 

___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List opinion on cabin table

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Lisle- buy the C&C!  :)

> On Oct 11, 2017, at 9:08 AM, Lisle Kingery, PhD via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks, Dennis, I hadn't thought about the issue of sail load support.
> 
> From what I can tell, it appears the Tartan 31 chainplates are attached to 
> the bulkhead vs. the C&C 30mkii are attached to the hull. I have the Tartan 
> 31 manual but I don't see that specified anywhere, but looking at pics online 
> it looks like this is the case.
> 
>  
> I'll be mainly day sailing with the goal of doing some multi night coastal 
> excursions on Lake Ontario eventually. Do you think this would make much of a 
> difference in this setting?
> 
> Both boats have a Yanmar diesel, with the C&C being 16 HP vs. 18 generally 
> for the Tartans.
> 
> I like the C&C 30 layout a lot with the only hesitation being the table in 
> the middle.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Lisle
> 
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: "Dennis C." mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
> To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: 
> Bcc: 
> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 08:18:31 -0500
> Subject: Re: Stus-List opinions about cabin table
> Everyone's criteria is different.  How folks use their boats is also a 
> consideration.  Both boats look nice.  Both are quality built.
> 
> I guess I'm strange but my starting point is always the rig and how the 
> sailing load is supported.  Are the chain plates attached to a bulkhead or 
> are the shroud loads carried directly down to the hull?
> 
> Next I look at the propulsion system.  
> 
> Finally, I look at layout and amenities.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List opinion on cabin table

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Regarding the chainplates on the 30 MK II, from the pictures at 
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/C%26C-30-3079275/Rochester/NY/United-States#.Wd40ia2ZO8V
 I’d guess they attach to a fiberglass “knee” behind the settees - not to the 
hull directly - but to be sure you’d have to pull off the settee cushions and 
inspect.

In this picture of my starboard settee you can see how the chainplates attach 
on a 30 MK I - to a fiberglass “knee” protruding from the inside of the hull.

C&Cs have a reputation for being well-built, and I would be very surprised if 
the chainplate attachments on a 30 MK II are anything but very strong.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Oct 11, 2017, at 9:08 AM, Lisle Kingery, PhD via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Thanks, Dennis, I hadn't thought about the issue of sail load support.
> 
> From what I can tell, it appears the Tartan 31 chainplates are attached to 
> the bulkhead vs. the C&C 30mkii are attached to the hull. I have the Tartan 
> 31 manual but I don't see that specified anywhere, but looking at pics online 
> it looks like this is the case.
> 
>  
> I'll be mainly day sailing with the goal of doing some multi night coastal 
> excursions on Lake Ontario eventually. Do you think this would make much of a 
> difference in this setting?
> 
> Both boats have a Yanmar diesel, with the C&C being 16 HP vs. 18 generally 
> for the Tartans.
> 
> I like the C&C 30 layout a lot with the only hesitation being the table in 
> the middle.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Lisle
> 
> 
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: "Dennis C." mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
> To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Cc: 
> Bcc: 
> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 08:18:31 -0500
> Subject: Re: Stus-List opinions about cabin table
> Everyone's criteria is different.  How folks use their boats is also a 
> consideration.  Both boats look nice.  Both are quality built.
> 
> I guess I'm strange but my starting point is always the rig and how the 
> sailing load is supported.  Are the chain plates attached to a bulkhead or 
> are the shroud loads carried directly down to the hull?
> 
> Next I look at the propulsion system.  
> 
> Finally, I look at layout and amenities.
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List opinion on cabin table

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Whoops here’s the picture of my starboard settee: 
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTU3ZycUs0YzQwSHM

> On Oct 11, 2017, at 9:19 AM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Regarding the chainplates on the 30 MK II, from the pictures at 
> http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/C%26C-30-3079275/Rochester/NY/United-States#.Wd40ia2ZO8V
>  
> <http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1987/C%26C-30-3079275/Rochester/NY/United-States#.Wd40ia2ZO8V>
>  I’d guess they attach to a fiberglass “knee” behind the settees - not to the 
> hull directly - but to be sure you’d have to pull off the settee cushions and 
> inspect.
> 
> In this picture of my starboard settee you can see how the chainplates attach 
> on a 30 MK I - to a fiberglass “knee” protruding from the inside of the hull.
> 
> C&Cs have a reputation for being well-built, and I would be very surprised if 
> the chainplate attachments on a 30 MK II are anything but very strong.
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy
> 
>> On Oct 11, 2017, at 9:08 AM, Lisle Kingery, PhD via CnC-List 
>> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Thanks, Dennis, I hadn't thought about the issue of sail load support.
>> 
>> From what I can tell, it appears the Tartan 31 chainplates are attached to 
>> the bulkhead vs. the C&C 30mkii are attached to the hull. I have the Tartan 
>> 31 manual but I don't see that specified anywhere, but looking at pics 
>> online it looks like this is the case.
>> 
>>  
>> I'll be mainly day sailing with the goal of doing some multi night coastal 
>> excursions on Lake Ontario eventually. Do you think this would make much of 
>> a difference in this setting?
>> 
>> Both boats have a Yanmar diesel, with the C&C being 16 HP vs. 18 generally 
>> for the Tartans.
>> 
>> I like the C&C 30 layout a lot with the only hesitation being the table in 
>> the middle.
>> 
>> Thanks again,
>> 
>> Lisle
>> 
>> 
>> -- Forwarded message --
>> From: "Dennis C." mailto:capt...@gmail.com>>
>> To: CnClist mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
>> Cc: 
>> Bcc: 
>> Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2017 08:18:31 -0500
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List opinions about cabin table
>> Everyone's criteria is different.  How folks use their boats is also a 
>> consideration.  Both boats look nice.  Both are quality built.
>> 
>> I guess I'm strange but my starting point is always the rig and how the 
>> sailing load is supported.  Are the chain plates attached to a bulkhead or 
>> are the shroud loads carried directly down to the hull?
>> 
>> Next I look at the propulsion system.  
>> 
>> Finally, I look at layout and amenities.
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> 
>> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
>> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
>> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send 
>> contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
>> <https://www.paypal.me/stumurray>
>> 
>> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Cetol Natural Teak vs Cetol Marine

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Yes.  This past spring for Grenadine’s new cabintop handrails, and for 
refinishing her traveler bar and taffrails, I used 3-5 coats Cetol Marine 
Natural Teak followed by 2-3 coats of Cetol Marine Gloss.  I liked the color 
and finish of the result - it looks pretty natural.  I’m only six months in but 
so far they’ve held up great in the high-altitude Colorado sun and dry air.

Pictures here:
* https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTODJaQ05YR3lpNzQ (after 
finishing, before installing)
* https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTa09zUTcxSC1QQWc (traveler bar 
and taffrails, in use)
* https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTNnZ0VUFSNWhNT2M (cabintop 
handrails installed, in use)

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO

> On Oct 11, 2017, at 6:47 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Cetol come in 4 formulations; Marine, Gloss, Light and now Natural Teak.
> 
> Touche's teak has 5 coats of Cetol Marine followed by an indeterminate number 
> of coats of Cetol Gloss, applied twice a year.  It still looks good after 
> many years but, at some point, it will need to be redone.  Maybe another 
> couple years.
> 
> I tried the Cetol Light formulation once but it didn't seem to last as long 
> as the Cetol Marine.  Has any lister tried the Natural Teak?  How's the color 
> compare to Cetol Marine?  Longevity?
> 
> Dennis C.
> Touche' 35-1 #83
> Mandeville, LA
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!

Re: Stus-List Cetol Natural Teak vs Cetol Marine

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

And for comparison, Jerrod Milton on my crew made an awesome set of custom teak 
drink holders for Grenadine’s cockpit and cabintop (inboard of her dorade 
boxes).  These he insisted on treating only with teak oil.  And they have 
weathered some in the course of just one season.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Oct 11, 2017, at 7:42 PM, Randy Stafford via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes.  This past spring for Grenadine’s new cabintop handrails, and for 
> refinishing her traveler bar and taffrails, I used 3-5 coats Cetol Marine 
> Natural Teak followed by 2-3 coats of Cetol Marine Gloss.  I liked the color 
> and finish of the result - it looks pretty natural.  I’m only six months in 
> but so far they’ve held up great in the high-altitude Colorado sun and dry 
> air.
> 
> Pictures here:
> * https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTODJaQ05YR3lpNzQ (after 
> finishing, before installing)
> * https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTa09zUTcxSC1QQWc (traveler bar 
> and taffrails, in use)
> * https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B-NqAxQ6JxFTNnZ0VUFSNWhNT2M (cabintop 
> handrails installed, in use)
> 
> Cheers,
> Randy Stafford
> S/V Grenadine
> C&C 30-1 #7
> Ken Caryl, CO
> 
>> On Oct 11, 2017, at 6:47 PM, Dennis C. via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Cetol come in 4 formulations; Marine, Gloss, Light and now Natural Teak.
>> 
>> Touche's teak has 5 coats of Cetol Marine followed by an indeterminate 
>> number of coats of Cetol Gloss, applied twice a year.  It still looks good 
>> after many years but, at some point, it will need to be redone.  Maybe 
>> another couple years.
>> 
>> I tried the Cetol Light formulation once but it didn't seem to last as long 
>> as the Cetol Marine.  Has any lister tried the Natural Teak?  How's the 
>> color compare to Cetol Marine?  Longevity?
>> 
>> Dennis C.
>> Touche' 35-1 #83
>> Mandeville, LA
>> ___
>> 
>> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
>> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
>> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send 
>> contribution --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
>> 
>> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!


___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Stus-List 1973 30-1 For Sale in WA

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Here’s a nice-looking 1973 30-1 for sale in Washington state: 
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1973/C%26C-30-MK-I-Sloop-3069749/Gig-Harbor/WA/United-States#.WeBDLa2ZO8U

She has the same cockpit arrangement as Grenadine - boom-end sheeting, 
traveller on transom, tiller steering.  Looks like she’s had some 
customizations.  The price would seem to reflect it.

I don’t know anything about this boat other than what’s in the listing; just 
happened to notice it on the web tonight.

Cheers,
Randy Stafford
S/V Grenadine
C&C 30-1 #7
Ken Caryl, CO
___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

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Re: Stus-List Serial number

[Randy Stafford via CnC-List]

Please report what you find Tom.  Grenadine’s HIN is 30007972 (no ZCC etc.)  
C&C 30 MK I hull #007, built September 1972.

Cheers,
Randy

> On Oct 24, 2017, at 7:54 AM, T power via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Cool information, I gotta check mine out.
> 
> Tom Power 
> Invictus
> C&C 30 MK1
> Fredericton, NB
> From: CnC-List  > on behalf of Jack Fitzgerald via 
> CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 10:48 AM
> To: C&CList
> Cc: Jack Fitzgerald
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Serial number
>  
> The H is for July. The boat was built in July of 1984 as a 1985 model. 
> 
> We are now shipping new yachts and small boats from the USA with the last 3 
> digits as 718. Built in 2017 as 2018 model year boats.
> 
> Best regards,
> Jack Fitzgerald
> HONEY - C&C 39TM
> US12788
> 
> This email is protected by the Electronic Communications Privacy
> Act, 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2510-2521, is confidential and may be legally
> privileged.  If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
> that any retention, dissemination, distribution or copying of this
> communication is strictly prohibited.  Please reply to the sender that you
> have received this message in error, then delete it.  Thank you
> 
> 
> On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 9:39 AM, Chuck Gilchrest via CnC-List 
> mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
> Last 3 digits of the HIN.  April 85
> 
> Chuck Gilchrest
> S/V Half Magic
> 1983 LF 35
> Padanaram, MA
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com 
> ] On Behalf Of steve dewar via CnC-List
> Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2017 9:25 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
> Cc: steve dewar mailto:stevede...@me.com>>
> Subject: Stus-List Serial number
> 
> I just purchased a C&C 35 mkiii. The previous owner states it’s a 1985, but 
> looking at the original paperwork, it could be a 1984. How do you tell by 
> looking at the HIN #?
> The number is ZCC 35154H485. Any thoughts on this would be appreciated. Thanks
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> 
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!
> 
> ___
> 
> The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
> October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
> contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
> --   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray 
> 
> All contributions are greatly appreciated!

___

The bills have started coming in for the year 2018 and have gone up again.  
October will be our fund raising month.  Please consider sending a small 
contribution to help keep this list running.  Use PayPal to send contribution 
--   https://www.paypal.me/stumurray

All contributions are greatly appreciated!