> and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without 
> companies like riv and rapha.

Perhaps if we limit the niche to one in the United States (which would
seem curious, given Rapha is a British company and sells a lot of its
product in Europe) you could say tweed bags and shellaced tape would
not exist but for Riv.  They were around well before Rive in Europe -
especially the UK and France - and certainly in Japan where there has
long been a French bike cult.

> no, I didn't.  you wrote that there is no similar philosophy.  I
> provided 3 specific, not general, examples of core values (philosophy)
> they have in common - appreciation for steel bikes, craftsmanship/
> quality and style.

I believe the three categories you provide remain far too broad to
create an objective tautology.  I concede some others here appear
convinced.

> I didn't write anything about *business* philosophies.  is that the
> "philosophy" you were referring to?  if so, I misconstrued.

Rapha and Riv are businesses.  What other philosophy would they have?

GP appears to follow what he likes and hopes enough agree that he and
his employees make a living.  Rapha uses a well conceived and executed
marketing plan to convince people to pay more for merchandise it makes
than similar merchandise made by its competitors.

On Jun 4, 9:46 am, Patrick in VT <swing4...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Jun 4, 10:13 am, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote:
>
> > Is that Riv's niche?  I always thought it was making lugged steel
> > bikes.
>
> as I said, Joel - it's about more than products.  did you not read
> that part of my post?  to be clear and keep things in the context,
> there is a niche of riders who identify with Rivendell very strongly.
> there is a niche of riders who also identify with Rapha.  these are
> the niches I assumed Mike was referring to - that seemed rather
> obvious to me.  and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent
> that they do without companies like riv and rapha.
>
> > The correct term would be Fallacy of Accident.  You are assuming some
> > general similarities make the two alike.
>
> no, I didn't.  you wrote that there is no similar philosophy.  I
> provided 3 specific, not general, examples of core values (philosophy)
> they have in common - appreciation for steel bikes, craftsmanship/
> quality and style.
>
> >It is certanly not objective to say Rapha and Riv share similar business 
> >philosophies.
>
> I didn't write anything about *business* philosophies.  is that the
> "philosophy" you were referring to?  if so, I misconstrued.

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