Something appears as "marketing" or even "propaganda" if it doesn't match up with one's sensibilities. If a message does match up with one's tastes & preferences, then it just appears as common sense.
The good thing about Riv, Rapha, and anything else bike-related - is that it has a material use-value. So.... go out and use the stuff and enjoy! Aaron and I will be sporting Riv, Rapha, and Woolistic at the SDR Kitchen Creek 200k tomorrow. We'll report on the ride, and how the marketing influenced our experience :) Esteban San Diego, Calif. On Jun 4, 10:57 am, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote: > > there's no need to limit it. and for the *third* time, it's not solely > > about product. to be clear, there is a distinct niche of riders that > > identifies with the Riv brand and "rivvish" cycling. same with > > Rapha. both engage in lifestyle branding (that's not to say they go > > about it the same way), and this helps to develop the niches they are > > helping to define and support - not sure why this is at all > > controversial. > > My issue was with the Rapha and Riv having some exclusive or at least > a majority hold on the niche. A Japanese person riding a Toei, or a > French person on a Berthoud may fully appreciate all that we here say > is Rivvish while being completely unaware of the term - or possibly > even the Riv brand, for that matter. > > > core value - "steel is real": no explanation needed for Riv. Sachs, > > Davidson, Bilenky, Lyon, Hunter, IF, Igleheart, et al. have made > > bicycles for the rapha continental team. it obviously appreciates the > > craft of framebuilding with steel and supports it. > > Rapha is also involved with Carbon and Ti manufacturers as well. Riv > is strictly steel. > > > core value - "quality": both have very high standards for what they > > sell. look at the time GP takes to do > > There are many companies that make quality products. It does not mean > they share Riv's philosophical outlook. > > > core value - "style": no explanation needed. > > The same as above. > > > personally, as a cyclist, Riv and Rapha inspire me - they both remind > > me of why life on a bike is fun. they encourage me to try new things > > and take on challenges. seems to me that each has an underlying > > philosophy that informs their approach to cycling and the stuff they > > sell - which, in turn, informs my approach to cycling and the stuff I > > buy. i see this as separate from their approach, or philosophy, > > regarding "business." > > Designing, hiring manufacturers, selling merchandise, buying > merchandise, is what the retail business is all about. The fact you > like it - as do many, including myself - does not make it any less a > business. I would say it makes it a good business. > > I will also continue to argue that Riv and Rapha while both successful > business models with overlapping market are nonetheless very different > business models. > > On Jun 4, 12:27 pm, Patrick in VT <swing4...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > On Jun 4, 10:58 am, JoelMatthews <joelmatth...@mac.com> wrote: > > > > > and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without > > > > companies like riv and rapha. > > > > Perhaps if we limit the niche . .. . > > > > and I agree that they wouldn't exist to the extent that they do without > > > > companies like riv and rapha. > > > > Perhaps if we limit the niche to one in the United States (which would > > > seem curious, given Rapha is a British company and sells a lot of its > > > product in Europe) you could say tweed bags and shellaced tape would > > > not exist but for Riv. > > > there's no need to limit it. and for the *third* time, it's not solely > > about product. to be clear, there is a distinct niche of riders that > > identifies with the Riv brand and "rivvish" cycling. same with > > Rapha. both engage in lifestyle branding (that's not to say they go > > about it the same way), and this helps to develop the niches they are > > helping to define and support - not sure why this is at all > > controversial. > > > > I believe the three categories you provide remain far too broad to > > > create an objective tautology. I concede some others here appear > > > convinced. > > > please elaborate on why you believe my examples are subjective and/or > > illogical. > > > core value - "steel is real": no explanation needed for Riv. Sachs, > > Davidson, Bilenky, Lyon, Hunter, IF, Igleheart, et al. have made > > bicycles for the rapha continental team. it obviously appreciates the > > craft of framebuilding with steel and supports it. > > > core value - "quality": both have very high standards for what they > > sell. look at the time GP takes to do > > > core value - "style": no explanation needed. > > > if anything is "far too broad", it's the context in which we are > > discussing "philosophy." > > > > Rapha and Riv are businesses. What other philosophy would they have? > > > that's an interesting perspective. > > > personally, as a cyclist, Riv and Rapha inspire me - they both remind > > me of why life on a bike is fun. they encourage me to try new things > > and take on challenges. seems to me that each has an underlying > > philosophy that informs their approach to cycling and the stuff they > > sell - which, in turn, informs my approach to cycling and the stuff I > > buy. i see this as separate from their approach, or philosophy, > > regarding "business." -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
