"I'd be interested to know whether there is any real semantic danger here or whether it is a flavor of Misophonia. I've personally never misunderstood someone in the context of their conversation."
I would say, from the responses so far, even including the original complaint, that there is never any confusion on what was meant. It is, as you say, a flavor of misophonia. Or, as I would say, someone unnecessarily being a pedant. Dare I ask, what are the penalties going to be for these innocuous infractions of English? Verbal lashes? Loss of PMC status? Correction, PMC member status? Timeouts or spinlocks in /dev/null? What about misspellings or misuse of other words? Or, using a Chinese word by mistake? How much is an extra capitalization going to cost me? Or a missed sarcasm? Seriously, I feel like we all need to know this before we continue this discussion. john On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 8:02 AM larry mccay <lmc...@apache.org> wrote: > I'd be interested to know whether there is any real semantic danger here or > whether it is a flavor of Misophonia. > I've personally never misunderstood someone in the context of their > conversation. > > If there is a real danger like a decision being made for a whole community > based on someone calling themselves a PMC and it is misunderstood to mean > they are speaking as the entire PMC then perhaps we should rename it and > make it more explicit. Of course, no one will stop using PMC either > correctly or incorrectly - at least for a very long time. > > I'd also note that if a lot of folks are referring to themselves as an > inappropriate acronym that perhaps there is a missing acronym for what they > mean. > It seems folks are looking for something more precise and important > sounding. > > "Member" may be too generic and overloaded (even within Apache itself) to > express what they are trying to say. > ICM - Individual Committee Member? > PCM - Project Committee Member? Too close... > > Anyway, my opinion is that we either accept it and move on or add something > else. Trying to shove some semantic minutiae down everyone's throats isn't > likely worth the effort. > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 10:19 AM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > > > > > On Jul 2, 2024, at 11:52 PM, Christofer Dutz < > christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > > wrote: > > > > > > I mean … I think I have never really been confused if someone used > “PMC” > > or “PMC member” as from the context it was clear. > > > What however I really hate to see in emails is people using short forms > > LMAA, WTF, IANAL, STFU, … this list is long and obviously I listed the > ones > > I knew. > > > Quite often when people use these short forms, I feel a bit excluded > and > > have to search or ask what they mean, so if we freak out about people > using > > the short form PMC, then I would also argue to freak out on using other > > short forms ;-) > > > > No disrespect but doesn’t Deutsch combine words to make longer words so > > that PMC Member should according to Google Translate be "Mitglied des > > Projektmanagementausschusses”?! Acronyms nein! Composition ja! Verzeihen > > Sie mir meine kleine aber! > > > > Best, > > Dave > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > Von: Yuanbo Liu <liuyuanb...@gmail.com> > > > Datum: Mittwoch, 3. Juli 2024 um 05:24 > > > An: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> > > > Betreff: Re: PMC is a committee > > > Also it's driving me crazy to see native speakers saying "...not...no > > > more". Teachers tell me it is supposed to be "any more".. > > > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 11:03 AM tison <wander4...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > >> ... and yes. For non-native speakers, it's possible to feel less > > >> uncomfortable to use "PMC" as an abbr. to PMC members. Just .. as an > > >> opaque term. > > >> > > >> Best, > > >> tison. > > >> > > >> Xuanwo <xua...@apache.org> 于2024年7月2日周二 19:56写道： > > >>> > > >>> This thread reminds me of tison's proposal that use "Maintainer" > > instead > > >> of "PMC Member". > > >>> > > >>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/xsjojmksqtnsdjcg0yf4vz0xy82llhmw > > >>> > > >>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024, at 10:04, Jiacai Liu wrote: > > >>>>> And, we can all be tired, overworked, or lazy and say the wrong > > >>>>> thing *or* > > >>>>> get into bad habits. > > >>>> > > >>>> Thank John for your kindly understanding. > > >>>> > > >>>> Also as a non-native English speaker, when I see abbreviation like > > >>>> PMC, > > >>>> my first insight is this word could be used on its own, `PMC > > >>>> member` looks a little redundancy for me... > > >>>> > > >>>> on Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 08:50:45 AM +0800, John Gemignani wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> My 2 cents as being a PMC member and once part of incubation,... > > >>>>> > > >>>>> To be honest, I've never really paid much attention when someone > > >>>>> stated > > >>>>> they're a PMC. I knew what was meant and just auto corrected it > > >>>>> in my head. > > >>>>> I have used, without fully thinking about it, PMC as, "I am a > > >>>>> PMC" as well. > > >>>>> When I meant, or should have meant, "I am a PMC member", and I'm > > >>>>> a native > > >>>>> English speaker. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> As was mentioned, people from different cultures might have > > >>>>> different ways > > >>>>> of using a term like PMC. I just don't feel that getting upset > > >>>>> over, > > >>>>> arguably an innocuous misuse, engenders community. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> And, we can all be tired, overworked, or lazy and say the wrong > > >>>>> thing *or* > > >>>>> get into bad habits. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Again, my 2 cents. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> john > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 5:33 PM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> > > >>>>> wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> Hi Tison, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> I’m sympathetic as well. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2024, at 5:11 PM, tison <wander4...@gmail.com> > > >>>>>>> wrote: > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Hi Greg, > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> I saw this kind of thread many times, and I also corrected it > > >>>>>>> dozens > > >>>>>>> of times. Actually, this is part of the reason for [1] > > >>>>>>> ("Maintainer" > > >>>>>>> as an alias of PMC Member?). > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> [1] > > >>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/xsjojmksqtnsdjcg0yf4vz0xy82llhmw > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> That quickly turned into a not very sympathetic response from > > >>>>>> most. An > > >>>>>> easy what to name the Bikeshed. I think that most of our group > > >>>>>> are people > > >>>>>> whose second language is python, java, or fortran and their > > >>>>>> first language > > >>>>>> is some version of English. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Somehow, I share the sympathy for non-native speakers to make > > >>>>>>> an > > >>>>>>> analogy between committer and "PMC" since they're all > > >>>>>>> one-word > > >>>>>>> phrases. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Maybe explain it from your perspective as a speaker of Mandarin > > >>>>>> (or > > >>>>>> Cantonese?). How does the phrase Committee Member translate > > >>>>>> compared to > > >>>>>> Committee. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Best, > > >>>>>> Dave > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Best, > > >>>>>>> tison. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com> 于2024年7月2日周二 17:05写道： > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Hello all, > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> I am getting really tired of seeing people refer to > > >>>>>>>> *MEMBERS* of a PMC > > >>>>>> as > > >>>>>>>> "PMCs". > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> PMC stands for Project Management Committee. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> You have MEMBERS of that PMC. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> People are never to be called a PMC, nor a group of them as > > >>>>>>>> PMCs. People > > >>>>>>>> are not committees. The acronym "PMC" is short for a > > >>>>>>>> committee, not a > > >>>>>>>> person. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Please stop the confusion. Teach the community how to use > > >>>>>>>> the proper > > >>>>>> terms. > > >>>>>>>> > > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > > >>>>>>>> Greg > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > >>>>>>> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > > >>>>>>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > > >>>>>> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > > >>>>>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >>> > > >>> -- > > >>> Xuanwo > > >>> > > >>> https://xuanwo.io/ > > >>> > > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >>> > > >> > > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > >> > > >> > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > > > > >
