> What’s wrong with “PMCM” for an individual? I'd second the proposal to simply encourage PMCM to be the abbr for PMC members and spread it among the community. Or MPMC/MPPMC reads better to me (XD)
Best, tison. David Jencks <david.a.jen...@gmail.com> 于2024年7月7日周日 21:47写道： > Well, every time I see “PMC” and it appears from the context that one > person is meant, I’m confused, and I have doubts about whether the author > knows what they mean. I applaud Greg for complaining. > What’s wrong with “PMCM” for an individual? > > David Jencks > Sent from my iPhone > > > On Jul 7, 2024, at 8:47 PM, Joe Witt <joew...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > Greg > > > > It isnt wrong to correct improper usage particularly when there is a > > specific case that caused actual confusion. > > > > That should be done by the person that was confused and with the person > > that caused confusion. > > > > Joe > > > > > >> On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 10:31 PM Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >> I have witnessed actual confusion, approximately of the form "a PMC > >> approved this request". Digging in, it turned out that it was a single > >> person on a PMC, not the committee approving the request. > >> > >> So, no ... it isn't just being a pedant. And even if it was: why is it > >> wrong to correct the use of terminology? Why is it okay to misuse the > >> acronym "PMC"? > >> > >> I do not believe that this is cultural. The acronym "PMC" is not a word > in > >> *any* language. So we're talking about how people are *taught* what the > >> acronym means. My point is to teach people it means "committee" and it > >> never means "member". That is a simple fact that has zero cultural > >> implications. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> -g > >> > >> > >>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 10:02 AM larry mccay <lmc...@apache.org> wrote: > >>> > >>> I'd be interested to know whether there is any real semantic danger > here > >> or > >>> whether it is a flavor of Misophonia. > >>> I've personally never misunderstood someone in the context of their > >>> conversation. > >>> > >>> If there is a real danger like a decision being made for a whole > >> community > >>> based on someone calling themselves a PMC and it is misunderstood to > mean > >>> they are speaking as the entire PMC then perhaps we should rename it > and > >>> make it more explicit. Of course, no one will stop using PMC either > >>> correctly or incorrectly - at least for a very long time. > >>> > >>> I'd also note that if a lot of folks are referring to themselves as an > >>> inappropriate acronym that perhaps there is a missing acronym for what > >> they > >>> mean. > >>> It seems folks are looking for something more precise and important > >>> sounding. > >>> > >>> "Member" may be too generic and overloaded (even within Apache itself) > to > >>> express what they are trying to say. > >>> ICM - Individual Committee Member? > >>> PCM - Project Committee Member? Too close... > >>> > >>> Anyway, my opinion is that we either accept it and move on or add > >> something > >>> else. Trying to shove some semantic minutiae down everyone's throats > >> isn't > >>> likely worth the effort. > >>> > >>> > >>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 10:19 AM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> On Jul 2, 2024, at 11:52 PM, Christofer Dutz < > >>> christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>> I mean … I think I have never really been confused if someone used > >>> “PMC” > >>>> or “PMC member” as from the context it was clear. > >>>>> What however I really hate to see in emails is people using short > >> forms > >>>> LMAA, WTF, IANAL, STFU, … this list is long and obviously I listed the > >>> ones > >>>> I knew. > >>>>> Quite often when people use these short forms, I feel a bit excluded > >>> and > >>>> have to search or ask what they mean, so if we freak out about people > >>> using > >>>> the short form PMC, then I would also argue to freak out on using > other > >>>> short forms ;-) > >>>> > >>>> No disrespect but doesn’t Deutsch combine words to make longer words > so > >>>> that PMC Member should according to Google Translate be "Mitglied des > >>>> Projektmanagementausschusses”?! Acronyms nein! Composition ja! > >> Verzeihen > >>>> Sie mir meine kleine aber! > >>>> > >>>> Best, > >>>> Dave > >>>>> > >>>>> Chris > >>>>> > >>>>> Von: Yuanbo Liu <liuyuanb...@gmail.com> > >>>>> Datum: Mittwoch, 3. Juli 2024 um 05:24 > >>>>> An: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> > >>>>> Betreff: Re: PMC is a committee > >>>>> Also it's driving me crazy to see native speakers saying "...not...no > >>>>> more". Teachers tell me it is supposed to be "any more".. > >>>>> > >>>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 11:03 AM tison <wander4...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> ... and yes. For non-native speakers, it's possible to feel less > >>>>>> uncomfortable to use "PMC" as an abbr. to PMC members. Just .. as an > >>>>>> opaque term. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Best, > >>>>>> tison. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Xuanwo <xua...@apache.org> 于2024年7月2日周二 19:56写道： > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> This thread reminds me of tison's proposal that use "Maintainer" > >>>> instead > >>>>>> of "PMC Member". > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/xsjojmksqtnsdjcg0yf4vz0xy82llhmw > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024, at 10:04, Jiacai Liu wrote: > >>>>>>>>> And, we can all be tired, overworked, or lazy and say the wrong > >>>>>>>>> thing *or* > >>>>>>>>> get into bad habits. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thank John for your kindly understanding. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Also as a non-native English speaker, when I see abbreviation like > >>>>>>>> PMC, > >>>>>>>> my first insight is this word could be used on its own, `PMC > >>>>>>>> member` looks a little redundancy for me... > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> on Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 08:50:45 AM +0800, John Gemignani wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> My 2 cents as being a PMC member and once part of incubation,... > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> To be honest, I've never really paid much attention when someone > >>>>>>>>> stated > >>>>>>>>> they're a PMC. I knew what was meant and just auto corrected it > >>>>>>>>> in my head. > >>>>>>>>> I have used, without fully thinking about it, PMC as, "I am a > >>>>>>>>> PMC" as well. > >>>>>>>>> When I meant, or should have meant, "I am a PMC member", and I'm > >>>>>>>>> a native > >>>>>>>>> English speaker. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> As was mentioned, people from different cultures might have > >>>>>>>>> different ways > >>>>>>>>> of using a term like PMC. I just don't feel that getting upset > >>>>>>>>> over, > >>>>>>>>> arguably an innocuous misuse, engenders community. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> And, we can all be tired, overworked, or lazy and say the wrong > >>>>>>>>> thing *or* > >>>>>>>>> get into bad habits. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Again, my 2 cents. > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> john > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 5:33 PM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi Tison, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> I’m sympathetic as well. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2024, at 5:11 PM, tison <wander4...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Hi Greg, > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I saw this kind of thread many times, and I also corrected it > >>>>>>>>>>> dozens > >>>>>>>>>>> of times. Actually, this is part of the reason for [1] > >>>>>>>>>>> ("Maintainer" > >>>>>>>>>>> as an alias of PMC Member?). > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> [1] > >>>>>>>>>>> > >> https://lists.apache.org/thread/xsjojmksqtnsdjcg0yf4vz0xy82llhmw > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> That quickly turned into a not very sympathetic response from > >>>>>>>>>> most. An > >>>>>>>>>> easy what to name the Bikeshed. I think that most of our group > >>>>>>>>>> are people > >>>>>>>>>> whose second language is python, java, or fortran and their > >>>>>>>>>> first language > >>>>>>>>>> is some version of English. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Somehow, I share the sympathy for non-native speakers to make > >>>>>>>>>>> an > >>>>>>>>>>> analogy between committer and "PMC" since they're all > >>>>>>>>>>> one-word > >>>>>>>>>>> phrases. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Maybe explain it from your perspective as a speaker of Mandarin > >>>>>>>>>> (or > >>>>>>>>>> Cantonese?). How does the phrase Committee Member translate > >>>>>>>>>> compared to > >>>>>>>>>> Committee. > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>>>>> Dave > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>>>>>> tison. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com> 于2024年7月2日周二 17:05写道： > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Hello all, > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> I am getting really tired of seeing people refer to > >>>>>>>>>>>> *MEMBERS* of a PMC > >>>>>>>>>> as > >>>>>>>>>>>> "PMCs". > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> PMC stands for Project Management Committee. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> You have MEMBERS of that PMC. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> People are never to be called a PMC, nor a group of them as > >>>>>>>>>>>> PMCs. People > >>>>>>>>>>>> are not committees. The acronym "PMC" is short for a > >>>>>>>>>>>> committee, not a > >>>>>>>>>>>> person. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Please stop the confusion. Teach the community how to use > >>>>>>>>>>>> the proper > >>>>>>>>>> terms. > >>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>>>>>> Greg > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > >>>>>>>>>>> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > >>>>>>>>>>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > >>>>>>>>>> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > >>>>>>>>>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > >> general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> -- > >>>>>>> Xuanwo > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> https://xuanwo.io/ > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >> > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
