I'd be interested to know whether there is any real semantic danger here or whether it is a flavor of Misophonia. I've personally never misunderstood someone in the context of their conversation.
If there is a real danger like a decision being made for a whole community based on someone calling themselves a PMC and it is misunderstood to mean they are speaking as the entire PMC then perhaps we should rename it and make it more explicit. Of course, no one will stop using PMC either correctly or incorrectly - at least for a very long time. I'd also note that if a lot of folks are referring to themselves as an inappropriate acronym that perhaps there is a missing acronym for what they mean. It seems folks are looking for something more precise and important sounding. "Member" may be too generic and overloaded (even within Apache itself) to express what they are trying to say. ICM - Individual Committee Member? PCM - Project Committee Member? Too close... Anyway, my opinion is that we either accept it and move on or add something else. Trying to shove some semantic minutiae down everyone's throats isn't likely worth the effort. On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 10:19 AM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> wrote: > > > > On Jul 2, 2024, at 11:52 PM, Christofer Dutz <christofer.d...@c-ware.de> > wrote: > > > > I mean … I think I have never really been confused if someone used “PMC” > or “PMC member” as from the context it was clear. > > What however I really hate to see in emails is people using short forms > LMAA, WTF, IANAL, STFU, … this list is long and obviously I listed the ones > I knew. > > Quite often when people use these short forms, I feel a bit excluded and > have to search or ask what they mean, so if we freak out about people using > the short form PMC, then I would also argue to freak out on using other > short forms ;-) > > No disrespect but doesn’t Deutsch combine words to make longer words so > that PMC Member should according to Google Translate be "Mitglied des > Projektmanagementausschusses”?! Acronyms nein! Composition ja! Verzeihen > Sie mir meine kleine aber! > > Best, > Dave > > > > Chris > > > > Von: Yuanbo Liu <liuyuanb...@gmail.com> > > Datum: Mittwoch, 3. Juli 2024 um 05:24 > > An: general@incubator.apache.org <general@incubator.apache.org> > > Betreff: Re: PMC is a committee > > Also it's driving me crazy to see native speakers saying "...not...no > > more". Teachers tell me it is supposed to be "any more".. > > > > On Wed, Jul 3, 2024 at 11:03 AM tison <wander4...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> ... and yes. For non-native speakers, it's possible to feel less > >> uncomfortable to use "PMC" as an abbr. to PMC members. Just .. as an > >> opaque term. > >> > >> Best, > >> tison. > >> > >> Xuanwo <xua...@apache.org> 于2024年7月2日周二 19:56写道： > >>> > >>> This thread reminds me of tison's proposal that use "Maintainer" > instead > >> of "PMC Member". > >>> > >>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/xsjojmksqtnsdjcg0yf4vz0xy82llhmw > >>> > >>> On Wed, Jul 3, 2024, at 10:04, Jiacai Liu wrote: > >>>>> And, we can all be tired, overworked, or lazy and say the wrong > >>>>> thing *or* > >>>>> get into bad habits. > >>>> > >>>> Thank John for your kindly understanding. > >>>> > >>>> Also as a non-native English speaker, when I see abbreviation like > >>>> PMC, > >>>> my first insight is this word could be used on its own, `PMC > >>>> member` looks a little redundancy for me... > >>>> > >>>> on Wed, Jul 03, 2024 at 08:50:45 AM +0800, John Gemignani wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> My 2 cents as being a PMC member and once part of incubation,... > >>>>> > >>>>> To be honest, I've never really paid much attention when someone > >>>>> stated > >>>>> they're a PMC. I knew what was meant and just auto corrected it > >>>>> in my head. > >>>>> I have used, without fully thinking about it, PMC as, "I am a > >>>>> PMC" as well. > >>>>> When I meant, or should have meant, "I am a PMC member", and I'm > >>>>> a native > >>>>> English speaker. > >>>>> > >>>>> As was mentioned, people from different cultures might have > >>>>> different ways > >>>>> of using a term like PMC. I just don't feel that getting upset > >>>>> over, > >>>>> arguably an innocuous misuse, engenders community. > >>>>> > >>>>> And, we can all be tired, overworked, or lazy and say the wrong > >>>>> thing *or* > >>>>> get into bad habits. > >>>>> > >>>>> Again, my 2 cents. > >>>>> > >>>>> john > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Jul 2, 2024 at 5:33 PM Dave Fisher <w...@apache.org> > >>>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hi Tison, > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I’m sympathetic as well. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Jul 2, 2024, at 5:11 PM, tison <wander4...@gmail.com> > >>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Hi Greg, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I saw this kind of thread many times, and I also corrected it > >>>>>>> dozens > >>>>>>> of times. Actually, this is part of the reason for [1] > >>>>>>> ("Maintainer" > >>>>>>> as an alias of PMC Member?). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> [1] > >>>>>>> https://lists.apache.org/thread/xsjojmksqtnsdjcg0yf4vz0xy82llhmw > >>>>>> > >>>>>> That quickly turned into a not very sympathetic response from > >>>>>> most. An > >>>>>> easy what to name the Bikeshed. I think that most of our group > >>>>>> are people > >>>>>> whose second language is python, java, or fortran and their > >>>>>> first language > >>>>>> is some version of English. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Somehow, I share the sympathy for non-native speakers to make > >>>>>>> an > >>>>>>> analogy between committer and "PMC" since they're all > >>>>>>> one-word > >>>>>>> phrases. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Maybe explain it from your perspective as a speaker of Mandarin > >>>>>> (or > >>>>>> Cantonese?). How does the phrase Committee Member translate > >>>>>> compared to > >>>>>> Committee. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Best, > >>>>>> Dave > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Best, > >>>>>>> tison. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Greg Stein <gst...@gmail.com> 于2024年7月2日周二 17:05写道： > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Hello all, > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I am getting really tired of seeing people refer to > >>>>>>>> *MEMBERS* of a PMC > >>>>>> as > >>>>>>>> "PMCs". > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> PMC stands for Project Management Committee. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> You have MEMBERS of that PMC. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> People are never to be called a PMC, nor a group of them as > >>>>>>>> PMCs. People > >>>>>>>> are not committees. The acronym "PMC" is short for a > >>>>>>>> committee, not a > >>>>>>>> person. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Please stop the confusion. Teach the community how to use > >>>>>>>> the proper > >>>>>> terms. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>> Greg > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > >>>>>>> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > >>>>>>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: > >>>>>> general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: > >>>>>> general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>> > >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Xuanwo > >>> > >>> https://xuanwo.io/ > >>> > >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >>> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >>> > >> > >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > >> For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >> > >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: general-unsubscr...@incubator.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: general-h...@incubator.apache.org > >
