Hi Sabahattin, yes, my ip starts with a 192.168...
I'll try throw Skype.
Gabriel.
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It’s fair to say that this is a hard problem to solve and sadly, even in the
best case, it’s needlessly complicated. Thank our industry for not getting off
their collective bottoms and giving people proper connectivity to the Internet
that allows them to run servers of their choice and particip
You must be talking about a different Mailman, as on my site I get:
No manual entry for mailman
Mailman 2.x, at least, stores its data in Python pickles, not SQL databases.
Although I know about a third-party command-line tool (called mailmanadmin)
which does most moderation from the shell or c
Actually, you don't have to use a web interface to do Mailman. Most people
do, but it's not required. You can do most of it from the command line, and
through manually modifying conf files, and sequel databases, etc.
I didn't say it was fun doing it that way, but it is definitely doable.
man
Hej,
I neither was going to say anything, and honestly you all probably don't
care, but for what it's worth, I thirdly agree with Donna, and with Crister.
Chris.
- Original Message -
From: "Krister Ekstrom"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 9:13 AM
Subject: Re: a new macvisiona
Hmm, Tim Cook? LOL! Sorry, I couldn't resist.
Chris.
- Original Message -
From: "Eric Oyen"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: So is this list going to die or not?
hehe. yeah, still we need to be on good behavior. Like they say in radio:
you never know who
and who will write those rules?
ag
On 8/26/15 10:50 PM, David Tanner wrote:
Folks, let us be adults here. We all have our own opinions about a lot of
things. And, just to say that a person doesn't have the right to say that they
don't feel a need for a certain product is not life shattering
This makes it difficult because you and they are probably behind a
firewall which is going to stop you from directly connecting to each
other. You might be better off trying to use some chat app like the
built-in messages, Adium or Skype and using their file transfer
facilities. Even then, depe
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
I don't think you've kept up with a lot of the messages. I have. I've
forwarded messages. I don't really want a moderator position (and I
don't really want to sound like a martyr), but I stepped in because I
had to. I understand Cara has been going thr
Guys,
OK so here is my next observation working soly with I O S exclusively for this
1-day challenge.
This morning, the challenge has been forcing myself to check all of my e-mail
from my IPad. I am not saying that I've never done e-mail from I O S before.
Remember, I am a fairly advanced I
Folks, let us be adults here. We all have our own opinions about a lot of
things. And, just to say that a person doesn't have the right to say that they
don't feel a need for a certain product is not life shattering. And, if a
person wants respect then they need to be sure that they are showi
Hi Scott.
Thank you for your reply. You know what... you might actually be on to
something here. I never actually thought about that with Flash. Very good
point. It didn't look like Flash content, but then again, who knows. I
definitely give credit to what you're saying. That is definitel
I seem to be drawing a mental blank.
How do you go about bringing down the notification Center and iOS with a
Bluetooth keyboard?
also, is there a way that one can bring up the control center.
actually, come to think of it, here are two more that I've forgotten? Is there
a way to do the equiva
Matthew,
I'd normally take you up on this challenge. The only problem I really see with
this per sé is that I need to use a physical computer to do some of the work
required by my job. Therefore, I unfortunately cannot be "Off the Grid," no
pun intended, (God that's a great book!" LOL! for t
and who will monitor the monitor?
On 8/26/15 1:56 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:
Of course, as always, it helps to remember that if nobody replied to the
abuser, we wouldn’t have these issues. But it also helps to know that a
moderator can do this quickly in response to a general consensus o
Actually, the list owner chimed in earlier. Patience and compassion are in
order.
Later...
Tim Kilburn
Fort McMurray, AB Canada
On Aug 26, 2015, at 20:05, george b wrote:
Ok we are now over 100 messages on this subject and if people would read all
the mails they get before answering you woul
Hi Juliette, the latest version of VMWare Fusion is version 8, which came out
yesterday. It's a paid upgrade, so there should be a button that will open the
store for you in Safari if you want to try the demo of 8 or upgrade your
current installation at a discount.
It's el Capitan compatible and
Does anyone have a full yosemedy dmg they could send out?
For somereason to even get help via the accessibility number a person
has to pay 30 dollars! I was also wondering if a person could download a
full yosemedy version from a windows computer and burn that to a dvd to
do a install on a
Ok we are now over 100 messages on this subject and if people would read all
the mails they get before answering you would of seen many hours ago he
tried contacting the original mod and tried that but when no contact from
the list mod / or / owner how can you ask
-Original Message-
From:
sounds like an argument between the free-speechers and the would-be
do-gooders.
my ancestors said, "Never wish for a new Tsar."
I monitor this list for my blind grandchild. While brilliant and a
talented musician, her hand disabilities make it difficult for her to
use a keyboard. ag
On 8/
Hi,
My first question is I got an update notice for Fusion and I only see a learn
more button, but no option to install it. How do I go about this? Also, in
iTunes, I am having a strange problem where my podcasts will not update
properly. However, they update properly via the podcasts app on my
Then why not simply ask to be the mod here?
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Creating a new list in no way rewards any misbehavior or otherwise. It
says "We're here as a community to stay, here are some guidelines.
Follow them or the
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256
Set a filter for him. he's not worth your inbox space.
On 8/27/2015 2:30 AM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Good for you! Stand in that delete power. I believe he is on
> another list I am on, but since I understand that I am the one
> writing the dicti
Good for you!
Stand in that delete power.
I believe he is on another list I am on, but since I understand that I am
the one writing the dictionary of what I will allow to define me, I read
what is relevant, and ignore the rest.
I learn so much from the majority, that it seems disrespectful of
They supposedly paired it with the computer in the Apple store. I turned it on
at home and the bluetooth setup assistant says no keyboard found. Any
suggestions?
Marie
Fixed income, hell mine is broken Sent from my iPhone
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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Hi all. I, like others, also say that making a new Mac Visionaries list won't
solve anything. The reality of the matter is that drama follows us everywhere
and if we make a whole new mailing list, we're basically running away from
reality. Cara made an excellent point earlier and I'm proud that
Hello All,
firstly, this list is not going to die.
Now, to be completely frank and honest with you all. I have been in the
hospital for days now, visiting with a very dear one to me, who is passing away.
So honestly, I cannot address any of these matters right now.
The fact is, you are all adu
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
There's a glaring difference you're overlooking.
If someone were to start cursing and ranting, perhaps I or another
moderator wouldn't catch the first 10, but we would moderate as soon
as we caught it. The topic could be closed and that would be that.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Creating a new list in no way rewards any misbehavior or otherwise. It
says "We're here as a community to stay, here are some guidelines.
Follow them or there's the door." I don't plan to moderate that heavy
handed, but when people are leaving because
good for you for mentioning his name. We've all talked around him like he's
the plague of death but nobody mentioning his name. Maybe if everybody told
him to stop he would at least have to think about it.
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:44 PM, tim wrote:
>
> I have ben on many blind lists of differ
I just laugh at the person when he writes the messages which people don't like.
I don't care what he says. He does not worry me. I laugh and then I delete.
> On 26 Aug 2015, at 10:48 pm, Rich Ring wrote:
>
> I am aware of who the individual who seems to like to get peoples feelings
> stirred
I am aware of who the individual who seems to like to get peoples feelings
stirred up is, and since I know where my delete key is, I have no problem with
this individual. This individual comes and goes, and unless excluded, he’ll be
back! However, my delete key is a constant, not a variable, alt
I have ben on many blind lists of different types of content. ever time
Chris gets on a list this happens. They only way to stop him is to remove him
and any new creations he signs up with. Maybe in time he will get his act
together, but he won’t learn until he is shoved out into the cold.
Now
smiles...but of course.
Good and behavior are relatives to the individual however...no?
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015, Eric Oyen wrote:
hehe. yeah, still we need to be on good behavior. Like they say in radio: you
never know whose listening. Same here, you never know who is reading this.
-eric
On Aug
Not necessarily.
First you must decide if there is a real danger, or a defined, assumed
one.
Perhaps the creatures or just hungry...for attention.
So it may be in the field of infinite possibilities to clear the air.
report the creatures to the equal of terminix, Poison their food, all while
I am inclined to concurr completely with CJ on this. How well I fondly
remember my first days with my Mac and how helpful this list had been at the
time in pulling me through what I felt were fairly tricky spots at the time. I
hate to see what is happening now to the list and, I should like to
hehe. yeah, still we need to be on good behavior. Like they say in radio: you
never know whose listening. Same here, you never know who is reading this.
-eric
On Aug 26, 2015, at 2:23 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> I did not realize the list was spoiled smiles.
> Is this not a decision by you, ch
well, if this party has threatened or used hate speech, you report them
to the authorities. One does not well build a new house instead.
..not that you were asking me of course smiles.
Why not report their conduct to the Internet provider?
On Thu, 27 Aug 2015, Yuma Decaux wrote:
Scott,
Wh
To whom it may concern,
I have been a member of this list for several years now. I read the traffic on
a daily basis. I try to only post when I feel that I can competently address
another list member’s query about the Mac & VoiceOver. However, I will confess
that, as of late, I have been dra
Well, if an island is infested with dangerous creatures, and no one can even
get into the island, would it not be best to destroy the old and find a new one?
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
>
> I did not realize the list was spoiled smiles.
> Is this no
I did not realize the list was spoiled smiles.
Is this not a decision by you, choosing to think the list is spoiled, ,
regardless of the bad..ahem apple?
Such can be ignored can it not? creating a new list just rewards their
behavior... does it not?
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015, Eric Oyen wrote:
So let's say who ever offends subscribes to the new list and says something out
of sorts then there is a spat on that new list before a mod steps in. You see
in my thinking, the damage is already been done as harsh words are said and
therefore in my thinking the same problem occurs. I know a m
Usually when someone starts to use jittery words, it is mainly because they
know their argument is on fragile grounds. Simply because there is a consensus
and a rationale which is repeated through various members boiling down to the
same thing. Filters and rules are not the solution, and just ge
Again I must agree.
there is a Maxim in legal studies, your rights end where my nose begins.
One meaning of this is that I and only i in the end decide if something is
offensive...largely because the other party is not going to agree
regardless.
so, the greater question is why are you giving o
Scott,
What are you really ttryint to get to? Take the same home analogy, or let’s say
the social club analogy. A majority is agreeing that this guy is detrimental.
It’s been months like this and in recent dates taking a culminating effect of
driving the discussion towards what to do with him,
meh. true. However, a slightly more moderated approach will keep the bad apples
(bad joke) from spoiling the rest. :)
-eric
On Aug 26, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
> Actually, i fail to understand how making anew list will impact anything
> really.
> As I understand it, so much tha
See what happens and keep this status quo going on while a majority is agreeing
on several points? So we’re just discussing uselessly is this correct?
> On 27/08/2015, at 2:41 AM, Jim Gatteys wrote:
>
> I guess we'll just have to see what happens.
> I personally think it is counter productive t
Actually, i fail to understand how making anew list will impact anything
really.
As I understand it, so much that is the issue is based on
behavior...and humans will show up wherever the list goes smiles.
Kare
On Wed, 26 Aug 2015, Eric Oyen wrote:
probably not. However, it doesn't hurt to h
Jim, I am noticing the same phenomena.
I'm calling it Spawn of Chris!
Sent from my IPhone
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 2:45 PM, Jim Gatteys wrote:
>
> are we spawning two antagonistic people on the list now?
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 1:10 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>>
>> This is what I was suggesting b
yep. I use apple mail here and it has a very large selection of filters I can
use. I can even filter based on any of the hidden header information (those
pesky X-lines). It has allowed me to dump more spam than even gmail could (and
do it properly).
-eric
On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Scott Gr
probably not. However, it doesn't hurt to have a backup.
-eric
On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
> Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list should be
> or not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to die?
>
> --
> You received this mess
Why don't you all read your mail...there is no mod for this list at this time
or I should say the person has not been modding for a long long time
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 13:11
To
Hi, agreed just get rid of the person that is causing the problem that is
what I would have done if it was on my list.
> On 26 Aug 2015, at 16:57, Jim Gatteys wrote:
>
> Why should everybody have to create a rule to filter out one objectionable
> person when a moderator could handle that quic
This list will continue. I have no control or wish to kill it off. I’m just
providing a place for people to go if they’re a bit tired, as I am of
deleting/filtering/ignoring/etc. Loosely moderated, but enough so that we can
control whether or not people get irritated enough with the daily happen
Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list should be or
not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to die?
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Last he checked in with me, Saqib was still working at Microsoft. I too was
around at the very beginning, but I’ve been on and off since. Of course, many
of you will know that Cara very graciously took up the reins and has made her
presence felt since that time, until she slipped into the shad
Here is where I have the issues I do.
We just spent 5 messages talking about who should have hit the delete key
first, who should’ve responded. I also want to make the point that I use
multiple systems. Sometimes I check mail on my iPhone, sometimes I check on my
mac or my windows system. I don’
Hello Tyler,
Are you aware that there are several other lists for VoiceOver users? The one
that comes to mind immediately is Mac-Access, which is a very quiet list and I
know there are others.
I agree with Jonathan that using the name MacVisionaries is dishonest and you
should find your own li
but aren't you doing the same by responding to his response?
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 1:32 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>
> And see instead of wasting your time and mine by writing that you could have
> hit the delete key, taken less than 500 milliseconds and moved on.
>
>
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 2:
are we spawning two antagonistic people on the list now?
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 1:10 PM, Scott Granados wrote:
>
> This is what I was suggesting but several folks got their panties in a bunch
> and feel that filtering is unacceptable. They’d rather be spoon fed I
> suppose than work their own s
Some numbers for your edification. You have posted 12 times to my 3
today. Who is wasting whose time? (smiles)
From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?
On 8/26/2015 11:32 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
And see
And see instead of wasting your time and mine by writing that you could have
hit the delete key, taken less than 500 milliseconds and moved on.
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 2:30 PM, E.T. wrote:
>
> A mail filter is not workable in all situations such as the one under heavy
> discussion. The reason
A mail filter is not workable in all situations such as the one
under heavy discussion. The reasons given are clear. Your comment was
not necessary.
From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?
On 8/26/2015 11
Only the list owner can add new moderators.
From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?
On 8/26/2015 9:29 AM, Mary Otten wrote:
For whatever it may be worth, I really think the best thing would be to have
new
This is what I was suggesting but several folks got their panties in a bunch
and feel that filtering is unacceptable. They’d rather be spoon fed I suppose
than work their own silverware.
Good point though
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 2:05 PM, Eric Oyen wrote:
>
> may I offer a suggestion? there are
Actually, all you have to do is initiate the download from the Audible site and
iTunes will automatically recognize it and prompt you for your user ID and
password if it's the first book to be downloaded.
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@goo
may I offer a suggestion? there are mail filters that can be applied from the
end user. Most mail clients can actually do this based on a number of criteria.
So, if someone uses a foul tongue and makes threats, just filter their mail
into the trash based on that offenders email address, or based
I like your solution. People who want a little oversight can take that option
and people who don’t are able to stay as is.
Couldn’t be much more fair than that.
I’d say to the folks concerned about fragmentation that happy users on the list
even if fragments of the former list are probably bet
Of course, as always, it helps to remember that if nobody replied to the
abuser, we wouldn’t have these issues. But it also helps to know that a
moderator can do this quickly in response to a general consensus or clear harm
being done, and that, for better or worse, people will respond angrily
Hi Tyler and all. As someone who has participated in these sorts of forums for
around 30 years, dating back to the FidoNet days, I generally have a policy of
not fuelling the flames by making comments on the drama. I've also run many
lists in my time, and like you, I don't agree that a totally h
Hello:
I actually tried for the best of both worlds here. I’ve reached out to Cara
numerous times, even mentioned her on twitter and gotten no response. This was
the last solution for me, but one which I really do think will work. So I do
want it known that I have exhausted all possibilities sho
Sorry, I run the latest iTunes and I still have "deauthorise" audible account"
under the store menu item so I assumed there would have been its opposite, .e.
"authorise audible account'. Didn't mean to mislead.
Andrew
> On 26 Aug 2015, at 16:59, Faisal ali wrote:
>
> Hi there Andrew,
> This i
I guess we'll just have to see what happens.
I personally think it is counter productive to let one person make the entire
list not a good place for its members. But with all this discussion we are
giving him more attention which is probably what he wants in the first place.
Jim
> On Aug 26,
I think its funny how people like to push the responsibility on to someone else
instead of deal with it themselves.
If you don’t want to invite someone in to your home then don’t. Nobody forces
you to read anything.
These are the same busy bodies who want content pulled on TV because someone
For whatever it may be worth, I really think the best thing would be to have
new moderators on this list, rather than fragmenting the community. I know that
is not a new idea as several have mentioned the same idea. I also don't agree
with the wild West approach. I'm sorry. But when you send ema
That’s an easy one, because no one person can and should speak for anyone else.
We’ve already discussed on this thread what happens when a moderator goes all
power hungry. I remember when it happened on an iteration of this list
probably 4 years back now and most people left the group because t
Hi, The way I did it, was to put the audible book where i wanted it.
Then iopen itunes and hit command+o choose the folder where the book
is located. Itunes will automatically ask you to authorize the
computer for audible. And, then you're all set.
Jeff
On 8/26/15, Faisal ali wrote:
> Hi there A
Hi there Andrew,
This is no longer the way its done since iTunes 12.2. According to the help
page I read, the only way to authorize is by downloading a book. If you look in
the store menu in iTunes, they only thing pertinent to audible is reauthorize
audible account, not authorize.
> On Aug 26,
Why should everybody have to create a rule to filter out one objectionable
person when a moderator could handle that quickly and efficiently.
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 10:04 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>
> Just add the objectionable person to a rule and move it automatically to the
> trash.
>
> Sim
Hello,
Open Itunes and go to the "store" menu item and arrow down to the item
authorise this computer for audible account or something very similar. This
will allow you to authorise your computer to play audible books via ituens.
remember to deauthorise your computer with Audible should you h
Well here is part of the issue the subject lind does not match up to the
conversation any more and now this is really a big issue on this list also!!!
-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com]
On Behalf Of Yuma Decaux
Sent: Wednesda
The point is, that does not work since there are others who reply to his
abuses, and I receive these emails too. I’m not going to rule everyone for one
offensive member.
> On 27/08/2015, at 1:04 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>
> Just add the objectionable person to a rule and move it automatical
Just add the objectionable person to a rule and move it automatically to the
trash.
Simple, problem solved and no moderation.
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:01 AM, Yuma Decaux wrote:
>
> ET is right, I am afraid to say this.
>
> I cannot count the number of times this person has fired out, insulted
ET is right, I am afraid to say this.
I cannot count the number of times this person has fired out, insulted, then
asked pardon, justifying some personal issues which do not belong to any
mailing list, then repeat the process almost within the hour. If he is so
defensive and threatening towards
Hi All,
As one of the older members of this list, I want to add an emphasis on how the
filter does not really work as the replies and objections to the abuse still
keep streaming in. Meaning I have to sift through fallout emails from the
abuse, as well as replies commenting on how off topic thi
There are as many opinions here as there are members of this group.
This issue is generating a lot of traffic that is not helpful to the
grpup. We have one person who cannot control himself. Banning him will
break the fever and let the group move on.
From E.T.'s Keyboard...
ancient.ali..
A very simple solution is for everyone to be aware that the list is moderated,
and throw in a public warning to whoever is continuously abusing others
verbally, not necessarily ban the person. The point is to make the offensive
person reflect on themselves. Banning them would result in upsets an
Hi all,
Recently, I’ve subscribed to audible and I wish to be able to read such books
on my mac. As I understand, this can be done in iTunes but one needs to
authorize one’s computer to be able to make this happen. Firstly, is there
anyone on this list who read audible books on their macs? Secon
Hi,
This question appears to need an answer. iTunes should automatically sort by
Track number if you have the things sorted by Album. Therefore, while
interacting with the table, press VO-shift-back slash, navigate right or left
to the Album header then VO-space on it. VO-space a second time
Hi,
I wasn’t going to chime in here at all but rather see where this all
goes, but here is what i think for what it’s worth: I agree with Donna
on where this list should go. I’m not entirely sure branching off
would be the best way of doing things because it would only divide the
community and
Freelists runs on Ecartis, a wonderful mailing list manager for its day, but
I’d agree, a rather tragic outpost of abandonware now. Hopefully Freelists
have changed whatever it was that was still broken about the latest Ecartis,
but I’ve since unhappily cut over to Mailman, which I hate with a
there may be another reason for transitioning from here. Google groups web
interface has been getting increasingly difficult to use over the last year or
so. SInce I am on an older mac (2007 whitebook), I have noticed some of these
issues more than most. THere is another problem with google grou
It does say a lot that the list is in the generally healthy state it’s in now,
for sure. I like to think that’s just a kind of natural mutation resulting
from pressures on opposing sides of the moderation extreme. However, much as I
support a hands-off approach, I do feel that some of the nons
Viviana, you’re wrong. I actually live in a community that doesn’t have 24
hour policing.
I moved there intentionally, that was a huge selling point. There are massive
swaths of country that don’t have policing available. Whether it’s the woods
like where I live or the Swamps in the south or
Indeed, she seems to be alive and well on the viPhone list, but we live
overshadowed by a corpse on this one.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:30 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>
> OK, so I'm going to address the elephant in the room to which you eluded.
> Cara, if you're out there, you
Great! i will be joining today!
just because this list used to be good in the past doesn’t mean we have to
stay and hope, maybe someday, things get better.
there are so many other relevent other lists around where i won’t have to
delete so many posts every day.
and, yes, we do need police. ana
I wish there was a tutorial on how to use rules. Not a podcast though, those
are often too long with 10 minutes of explanation on what the podcast is about,
when people already know what they chose to listen to.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:20 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>
> Or
Yes until you’ve eventually removed everyone from deviating from your
acceptable use over time.
Banning someone from any mailing list is just weak sauce. The only exception
to that at least for me is spammers. There have been serious lack of
moderation and spam problems on other lists like th
Oh no you Dit Int!
;)
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 8:30 AM, Donna Goodin wrote:
>
> OK, so I'm going to address the elephant in the room to which you eluded.
> Cara, if you're out there, you either need to mod the list yourself, or let
> it go! Cara is like a ghost on this list. Nobody wants to "
Having a second Macvisionaries floating around may indeed prove confusing. I'll
also say this: good luck with Freelists! I used them when I helped to moderate
a BrailleNote list, and had no end of problems. Delayed delivery, random bounce
problems and auto-moderated users, total failure of a reg
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