Hi Tyler and all. As someone who has participated in these sorts of forums for around 30 years, dating back to the FidoNet days, I generally have a policy of not fuelling the flames by making comments on the drama. I've also run many lists in my time, and like you, I don't agree that a totally hands-off approach works, especially because even if you filter the problem child, it can be difficult to filter the responses to the problem child. Then you get yourself into a situation where you spend so much time tweaking your filters, you may as well just unsubscribe, which I've been considering doing. When the person who is the source of at least 80% of the current problems resubscribed to this list, I thought the cycle would repeat itself, as I've seen it do on several occasions on this list. It goes like this, things start off OK, then the posts get increasingly inappropriate, then people object to his behaviour, then, finally, he throws a tantrum and unsubscribes, and we all get on with our lives. For whatever reason, the latter part of this sequence hasn't happened as quickly as it usually does. This list needs a moderator. It does not have one right now, it only has an owner. So congratulations to you for starting another list. It's a free world and anyone can start any list on any topic they choose, and people can make a decision to subscribe or not based on whether they think it will add value and is worthy of their time. I would seriously consider subscribing, but will not, for one important reason. I think using the name MacVisionaries is dishonest, inappropriate, and taking advantage of years of effort on the part of others. I am not in any way suggesting that you are a dishonest person. I am merely referring to this particular action. MacVisionaries is a strong brand. It's a rapidly deteriorating one, but it has helped many people. Just because you want to start a new list, doesn't mean this one is going away any time soon. When people use a search engine to find MacVisionaries, and get two lists, how are they supposed to differentiate? If your list is going to be well-moderated, and there will be people actively ensuring it adds value to those contributing, why would you want to be associated with a brand that, presently, is in trouble? I would strongly urge you, as a sign of respect for all this current list has given to the community, and more to the point, the individuals who created this list, to do the right thing and think of a name of your own. All the best with it, whatever you decide to do.
Jonathan Mosen Mosen Consulting Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training http://Mosen.org > On 27/08/2015, at 5:15 AM, Littlefield, Tyler <ty...@tysdomain.com> wrote: > > Hello: > I actually tried for the best of both worlds here. I’ve reached out to Cara > numerous times, even mentioned her on twitter and gotten no response. This > was the last solution for me, but one which I really do think will work. So I > do want it known that I have exhausted all possibilities short of banging on > her door. > > thanks, >> On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Mary Otten <motte...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> For whatever it may be worth, I really think the best thing would be to have >> new moderators on this list, rather than fragmenting the community. I know >> that is not a new idea as several have mentioned the same idea. I also don't >> agree with the wild West approach. I'm sorry. But when you send email to a >> list of several hundred people, you are coming into their homes. And you did >> not have a right to abuse that privilege. Nor should several hundred people >> be expected to write filtersbecause of one or two outliers who make >> itunpleasant for everybody. If a list is said to be moderated, people who >> signed up for that list have a right to expect that the rules will be >> followed and that those who do not follow them consistently will be taken >> off the list. If you like unmoderated lists, start one, or, if you want to >> check one out, go check out the eyes freelist. The last time I was on there, >> which was admittedly many months ago, it was horrible. I'm not arguing for >> one strike and you're out or heavy-handed moderation. But when it becomes >> clear overtime that a few people simply cannot follow simple guidelines, >> then a moderator needs to take action, or a new moderator needs to be found. >> So, I guess I'm joining my voice with the chorus of those who say that in >> the best of all worlds, this list would remain but would have an active >> moderator who did his or her job. >> Mary >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:56 AM, Littlefield, Tyler <ty...@tysdomain.com> wrote: >>> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> Hello Scott, >>> There's a vast difference in overly moderating and moderating of those >>> who make the community unpleasant for others. For example, should >>> someone receive an email cursing at them (which happens here pretty >>> frequently), the problem gets solved with a moderation. Should it >>> continue, said individual is removed from the community. >>> >>> I'm not proposing that overly prolicing makes a difference, just that >>> it's possible with an active list owner to create a community >>> conducive to a place where people can ask questions and provide help, >>> etc. Can you imagine how much cleaner our inboxes would be (I myself >>> am somewhat at fault here, as I've said) if we were to mostly >>> elimenate all the side bickering? >>> On 8/26/2015 7:46 AM, Scott Granados wrote: >>>> I’m not sure moderation = good community. That’s like saying >>>> policing = a good community and I’d dare say the folks of Ferguson >>>> or South Carolina would disagree with that assertion.;) >>>> >>>> You bring up a good point I’m just wondering is the tightening of >>>> the rules going to necessarily translate in to better content. It >>>> might but it’s hard to get enough people to switch and keep the >>>> same value when there’s already a critical mass of people here. >>>> >>>> Good luck though, as one of my favorite talk radio hosts used to >>>> say before he passed away “that’s why they make chocolate and >>>> vanilla” something for the different viewpoints. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:43 AM, Littlefield, Tyler >>>>> <ty...@tysdomain.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>> Hello: A lot of people have had numerous problems on this list. >>>> >>>> My last response on this list was cursed at and nothing is being >>>> done to stop it. As a result of the spam/cursing/general throwing >>>> of fits, I created a new list where rules can be enforced and we >>>> can have a good community. On 8/26/2015 2:46 AM, 'Gabriele >>>> Battaglia' via MacVisionaries wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Reply to the Littlefield, Tyler's message, wrote on >>>>>>> 26/08/2015 at 05:29: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, sorry but, maybe I lost something. Why a new list? What >>>>>>> is going to happen to this one? Thanks. Gabriel. >>>>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this >>>>> group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to >>>>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this >>>>> group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this >>>>> group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more >>>>> options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> - -- >>> Take care, >>> Ty >>> twitter: @sorressean >>> web:http://tysdomain.com >>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v2 >>> >>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJV3alUAAoJEAdP60+BYxejxMwIAImQRu113TefMhLFWF3sojAa >>> 2aZWJcXwMal0PD5no1QDzCFaiiXTmSms/FMweB9gJF+p94U1BcQAx+agtmh0wtXW >>> Ic7nYfYlmCYBo4iOi5jaW/ew3kZqlO5B6zKf2efooQA+lt30t+s2oS4Erq2LwEry >>> FpNGk7tdfni7Q1NIIf/gElZGVpefNS39oHz7+2WIB9i01gDDo9K4F0+isvElXKsv >>> 59YRfQag7uc4n5tKRqX1OGdKREF9vzgWdBANrnNsqBLimqwKCV2wUXuaLIqTt9Bu >>> Irs2hS7GSJafhCJGajNaIGsge53p8Tun6kjsAqIS3EvfDONrbmk9a0q5AsisKeQ= >>> =dU2/ >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
