Re: Turkish makam

> On 18 Jan 2023, at 05:07, Adam Good wrote: > > Let's take the makam Rast: > > g a bfc c d e fb > > the pitch g just happens to be the finalis...every song or instrumental > composition will have a melody that must end on that pitch. And the > accidentals say "b one koma flat" and "f four ko

Re: Turkish makam

Right, I see. Thanks for explaining Adam, this is obviously a world I have not seen until now, and a very interesting new way of thinking about music and its written form. To give you a better sense of where I was coming from, imagine that a person sits down to write a piece, this person having a

Re: Turkish makam

On Mon, Jan 16, 2023 at 4:30 AM Luca Fascione wrote: > All this being said, I just read there are hundreds of makams, which makes > me wonder whether it > wouldn't be more effective to provide a simple method to indicate the > makam of a piece at the start > of the score, for all but the most com

Re: Turkish makam

> On 16 Jan 2023, at 10:30, Luca Fascione wrote: > >> On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 3:49 PM Hans Åberg wrote: >> As the full number of Turkish makam is very large, perhaps too many to have >> in this file, there might be a turkish-makam-extended for the less common >&

Re: Turkish makam

On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 3:49 PM Hans Åberg wrote: > As the full number of Turkish makam is very large, perhaps too many to > have in this file, there might be a turkish-makam-extended for the less > common ones. > Being it said that I'm not clear what the harm is when a file of

Re: Turkish makam

> On 16 Jan 2023, at 02:29, Adam Good wrote: > > On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 9:49 AM Hans Åberg wrote: > > As the full number of Turkish makam is very large, perhaps too many to have > in this file, there might be a turkish-makam-extended for the less common > ones. >

Re: Turkish makam

On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 2:45 PM Adam Good wrote: > on the topic of naming, [...] I find it's a great idea to make the names > as descriptive and specific as possible. Ideas, for example: > > turkish-makam.ly > arabic-maqam.ly > persian-dastgah.ly > arabic-rhythms.ly (I forget the Arabic term...iq

Re: Turkish makam

> Though I'm forever grateful for the original makam.ly include > file. I'd much prefer to use the name turkish-makam.ly and could > easily see makam.ly simply disappear for the next release. Good to know, thanks. > While we're on the topic of naming, and I should pick this up in the > other th

Re: Turkish makam

On Sun, Jan 15, 2023 at 9:49 AM Hans Åberg wrote: > > As the full number of Turkish makam is very large, perhaps too many to > have in this file, there might be a turkish-makam-extended for the less > common ones. > The turkish-makam.ly file contains if I remember correctly

Re: Turkish makam

veniently live right next to one another in the ly > directory. And the usul file will be large enough that I'd much rather not > use that material in the turkish-makam file. > > Though I'm forever grateful for the original makam.ly include file. I'd > much prefer to use the nam

Re: Turkish makam

quot;makam". The two files would conveniently live right next to one another in the ly directory. And the usul file will be large enough that I'd much rather not use that material in the turkish-makam file. Though I'm forever grateful for the original makam.ly include file. I'd mu

Re: Turkish makam

> On 14 Jan 2023, at 08:06, Werner LEMBERG wrote: > >>> Too bad that `makam.ly` is essentially undocumented... >> >> From what I can see, makam.ly is the original faulty file, only >> there for backwards compatibility, which might be removed if there >> is no need for that. > > We could make

Re: Turkish makam

>> Too bad that `makam.ly` is essentially undocumented... > > From what I can see, makam.ly is the original faulty file, only > there for backwards compatibility, which might be removed if there > is no need for that. We could make it become deprecated in the next release, to be completely remo

Re: Turkish makam

> On 13 Jan 2023, at 19:03, Werner LEMBERG wrote: > >> [...] a possible future change could be, say, >> >> \include "arabic.ly" >> \language "arabic-hel" >> >> but I don't see much benefit for that. > > Hmm, probably it *is* the way to go – this is exactly what is done in > `makam.ly` and

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 9:25 AM Hans Åberg wrote: > > How is it going with those glyphs? The Turkish AEU notation system does > not have all the glyphs needed for a transposable system, so one might use > those glyphs to fill the gaps. > I second that this would be fantastic! Adam _

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 21 Oct 2018, at 10:56, Torsten Hämmerle wrote: > > Incidentally, I'm planning to fill in the Emmentaler gaps in the (very) near > future ... > The new glyph names for the tiny-arrowed accidentals (just the ones you > currently use are mentioned here) will be > > accidentals.flatflat.1up

Re: Turkish makam (and beyond) contribution(s) to Lilypond

On 11/22/2018 3:25 PM, Adam Good wrote: I need guidance from someone here to make it happen, like a mentor as mentioned in the contributor guide. Would a developer be willing to help me? I think currently, your mentor will be the lilypond-devel list.

Turkish makam (and beyond) contribution(s) to Lilypond

Greetings Lilypond-dev'ers, Here's Adam Good in Brooklyn, NY. I've shown up on the dev list recently but here's a better introduction. I'm a musician with a passion and fairly decent understanding of Turkish makam and musics of east Europe, the Balkans and beyond. I

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 14 Nov 2018, at 05:22, Adam Good wrote: > > Hans, Torsten and everyone, > 10 days later I have a finished turkish-makam.ly file that I'm certain has > nothing more for me to do on my end. There's support for 201 makam key > signatures which is A LOT and exhausts what can be found in Imail

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 3 Nov 2018, at 17:32, Adam Good wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 4:46 AM Torsten Hämmerle > wrote: > >> Just leave do not specify the tonic scale step in the scale/key definiton! >> That's all! ;) >> That way it will never be printed in the key signature. > > Sometimes my cat has a cat

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

On Sat, Nov 3, 2018 at 4:46 AM Torsten Hämmerle wrote: > Just leave do not specify the tonic scale step in the scale/key definiton! > That's all! ;) > That way it will never be printed in the key signature. > Sometimes my cat has a cat treat right under her nose but she doesn't know it because

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 3 Nov 2018, at 09:46, Torsten Hämmerle wrote: > > Just leave do not specify the tonic scale step in the scale/key definiton! > That's all! ;) > That way it will never be printed in the key signature. > If we set up the two special key signatures bestenigâr and revnaknüma > completely withou

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Hi, Adam and Hans (in alphabetical order), I had to stop to think about it (the key signature problem). *Result: forget about all the fancy tricks, LilyPond can do it out-of-the-box!* It's rather uncommon (to say the least) to spare out a certain scale step from the key signature, so it took a wh

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 2 Nov 2018, at 14:51, Adam Good wrote: > >> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 3:45 PM Hans Åberg wrote: >> > Again, anything like that or even being able to understand Torston's code >> > is beyond my skills. I wish! Just a musician. >> > He didn't post the code, I think. > > Correct, Torston has

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 3:45 PM Hans Åberg wrote: > > Again, anything like that or even being able to understand Torston's code > > is beyond my skills. I wish! Just a musician. > > He didn't post the code, I think. > Correct, Torston has not posted the code yet here on the dev list but he did p

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 1 Nov 2018, at 18:37, Adam Good wrote: > > Why anyone would want to > lock an important microtonal pitch like IRAK to C, I don't know other than > to say you can. What do you think? LilyPond may not be able to transpose a microtonal interval correctly, because it has only two interval ge

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 1 Nov 2018, at 18:37, Adam Good wrote: > > This works though technically it is a cheat. If, for whatever reason one > wanted to transpose the tonic of bestenigar from fb to c, the key signature > will print c4k flat which is of course inaccurate. Why anyone would want to > lock an importan

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Hans, This works though technically it is a cheat. If, for whatever reason one wanted to transpose the tonic of bestenigar from fb to c, the key signature will print c4k flat which is of course inaccurate. Why anyone would want to lock an important microtonal pitch like IRAK to C, I don't know othe

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 1 Nov 2018, at 02:40, Adam Good wrote: > > On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 5:46 PM Hans Åberg wrote: > Is this right? It is traditional to raise the third below the finalis, but > not in the octave above, and it looks as though is a. I found this [1], it > has an additional accidental at e. >

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 5:46 PM Hans Åberg wrote: > Is this right? It is traditional to raise the third below the finalis, but > not in the octave above, and it looks as though is a. I found this [1], it > has an additional accidental at e. > > Then the finalis should also be the key, as it is al

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 5:06 PM Torsten Hämmerle wrote: > When applying my solution to your bestenigar and revnaknuma examples > (denoted "Torsten's mod") perfectly matches your manually tweaked "should > look like this" versions. > That's pretty good for a start (and it's transposable), but I'll

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 31 Oct 2018, at 19:51, Adam Good wrote: > > I have issues in that the tonic of these makams is a microtone. In standard > Turkish notation, "fb" which is "f" 4k sharp > We need > \key fb \bestenigar Is this right? It is traditional to raise the third below the finalis, but not in the oc

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Adam Good-3 wrote > Attached is a shortish example showing that Rast and Segah transposition > works great and shows bestenigar and revnaknuma with the fb in the key > signature with two examples of what Bestenigar and Revnaknuma should look > like. Hi Adam, When applying my solution to your best

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Torsten and everyone greetings, RE: the key signatures for Turkish makam, I've made definitions for about 91 different makams like Rast, Hicaz, Segah, etc. These definitions are in the turkish-makam.ly file, attached. We need each makam's key signature to: 1. look as they do in stan

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 21 Oct 2018, at 10:56, Torsten Hämmerle wrote: > > Incidentally, I'm planning to fill in the Emmentaler gaps in the (very) near > future directly ... > The Metafont overhaul was, among others, the reason why it took so long (but > it's in the final internal testing phase now, struggling wit

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 25 Oct 2018, at 06:02, Adam Good wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 9:42 AM Hans Åberg wrote: >> >> > On 23 Oct 2018, at 04:56, Adam Good wrote: >> > >> Does it sound lower in standard Turkish performance, that is, which does not >> refer to a MIDI? — > > I just listened to some midi

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

On Tue, Oct 23, 2018 at 9:42 AM Hans Åberg wrote: > > > On 23 Oct 2018, at 04:56, Adam Good wrote: > > > Does it sound lower in standard Turkish performance, that is, which does > not refer to a MIDI? — I just listened to some midi output. Assuming I did this correctly, #(define-public EKSIK-I

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 23 Oct 2018, at 04:56, Adam Good wrote: > > On Sun, Oct 21, 2018 at 12:28 PM Hans Åberg wrote: > >> >> I made a version that allows one to switch to Helmholtz-Ellis notation, >> with arrow accidentals: Just uncomment the line >> %\bravuraOn >> and recompile, making sure that the fil

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 21 Oct 2018, at 17:41, Adam Good wrote: > > Hans and everyone, > This is about as much as I can do for a new Turkish Makam .ly file, > see attached: turkish-makam.ly Hans it's very similar to what I sent you > privately, took out some unwanted pitch definitio

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 21 Oct 2018, at 17:34, Torsten Hämmerle wrote: > > Hans Åberg-2 wrote >> You mean i LilyPond? What version. > > Yes, in LilyPond resp. LilyPond's notation font Emmentaler. > Current developments are done in Version 2.21.0. > The new accidentals certainly will not make their way in the soon

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Hans and everyone, This is about as much as I can do for a new Turkish Makam .ly file, see attached: turkish-makam.ly Hans it's very similar to what I sent you privately, took out some unwanted pitch definitions. I can see this replacing the current makam.ly file since it uses the same

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Hans Åberg-2 wrote > You mean i LilyPond? What version. Yes, in LilyPond resp. LilyPond's notation font Emmentaler. Current developments are done in Version 2.21.0. The new accidentals certainly will not make their way in the soon-to-come stable release 2.20, but I think they should be contained i

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 21 Oct 2018, at 14:42, Torsten Hämmerle wrote: > > Hans Åberg wrote >> If one typesets the file regularE53smufl.ly, one gets output below. Some >> single arrow accidentals are also missing in LilyPond, I think. > > Yes, also single arrow accidentals are missing. > Most notably, we'll have

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Hans Åberg wrote > I do not have any preference about the names. You can see the Smufl names > in the file regularE53smufl.ly I posted. I actually used the SMuFL names to see what accidentals used are missing in Emmentaler. My proposed names are (hopefully) in accordance with LilyPond glyph naming

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Hans Åberg wrote > If one typesets the file regularE53smufl.ly, one gets output below. Some > single arrow accidentals are also missing in LilyPond, I think. Yes, also single arrow accidentals are missing. Most notably, we'll have to distinguish between the (bigger) standard arrows and the smaller

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 21 Oct 2018, at 10:10, Graham Breed wrote: > > On 2018-10-20 02:24, Adam Good wrote: >> Hi Hans, >> I hope this email finds you well. Some questions for you if you have time >> plus I want to share my close to complete turkish makam file based on the >>

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Werner LEMBERG wrote > Indeed. I suggest that the tips of the arrows don't cross the staff > lines. Hi Werner, Yes, the by far most difficult task when dealing with arrows (and slahes!) is to avoid them being obscured by the stave lines. The smaller the design size, the bigger the problem. Her

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> Sorry, I forgot to attach an screenshot of some of the future > Emmentaler tiny-arrow accidentals. Very nice! > It's not the final design state, there's still some tweaking needed. Indeed. I suggest that the tips of the arrows don't cross the staff lines. Werner _

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 21 Oct 2018, at 10:56, Torsten Hämmerle wrote: > > Hans Åberg-2 wrote >> One only needs two extra files (below) that define and call the accidental >> glyphs in the Bravura.otf font, […] > > Hi Hans, > > Nice work! Thanks! > If I understand it correctly, the main reason for switching t

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Sorry, I forgot to attach an screenshot of some of the future Emmentaler tiny-arrow accidentals. It's not the final design state, there's still some tweaking needed. All the best, Torsten -- Sent from: htt

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Hans Åberg-2 wrote > One only needs two extra files (below) that define and call the accidental > glyphs in the Bravura.otf font, […] Hi Hans, Nice work! If I understand it correctly, the main reason for switching to Bravura are missing Emmentaler accidental glyphs (obviously the multi-arrowed on

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 20 Oct 2018, at 19:25, Adam Good wrote: > > Could you please show a pdf of your Cemil Bey Hicazkar Pesrev using HE > arrowed accidentals? And how to make that an option? One only needs two extra files (below) that define and call the accidental glyphs in the Bravura.otf font, which in tur

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 20 Oct 2018, at 19:25, Adam Good wrote: > > Hans thank you for passing this along to the dev list, replies below... Yes, it is important to le other to be able to follow, especially with such nice examples! > On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 4:40 AM Hans Åberg wrote: > >> Looks great! A possibi

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 20 Oct 2018, at 19:03, David Kastrup wrote: > >> The only difference is that I have 0 in some positions where you have 0/53. > > To Scheme that is no difference. Indeed, I was thinking about 1/53. :-) ___ lilypond-devel mailing list lilypond

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Hans thank you for passing this along to the dev list, replies below... On Sat, Oct 20, 2018 at 4:40 AM Hans Åberg wrote: > > Looks great! A possibility is to add a compile option using > Helmholtz-Ellis arrowed accidentals, which would be better for non-Turkish > to approach this music, and als

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

Hans Åberg writes: >> On 20 Oct 2018, at 03:24, Adam Good wrote: >> >> I hope this email finds you well. Some questions for you if you have >> time plus I want to share my close to complete turkish makam file >> based on the file you sent me originally plus re

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 20 Oct 2018, at 03:24, Adam Good wrote: > > I hope this email finds you well. Some questions for you if you have time > plus I want to share my close to complete turkish makam file based on the > file you sent me originally plus regular.ly > > here's

Re: Turkish makam using regular.ly

> On 20 Oct 2018, at 03:24, Adam Good wrote: > > Hi Hans, > I hope this email finds you well. Some questions for you if you have time > plus I want to share my close to complete turkish makam file based on the > file you sent me originally plus regular.ly > > here

Turkish makam using regular.ly

Hi Hans, I hope this email finds you well. Some questions for you if you have time plus I want to share my close to complete turkish makam file based on the file you sent me originally plus regular.ly here's the new makam include file: turkish-makam-ADAM.ly the other