I wanted to create some getting started examples too because it has taken
me a while to understand how to put all the pieces in Flex together. I
think it would be helpful to see examples and would even welcome review and
discussion on it. I think we can and should make it clear that the example
is
> I am not sure how to structure the code in there
I guess you can take the lead and decide yourself - can always refactor it
later if there is consensus that it needs to be different.
> the flex wiki instance is still not up and running ... and I am also
> unsure how to structure this wiki.
>
@Peter ... I like the idea contrib/samples, too ... but for the moment
I am not sure how to structure the code in there ... furthermore, I
would also need a wiki similiar to my Google Code page ... but
the flex wiki instance is still not up and running ... and I am also
unsure how to structure
@Alex thanks for the offer, but, there is no need to rush on this ... still
collecting thoughts.
-- Sebastian
On Jan 19, 2012, at 11:10 PM, Alex Harui wrote:
>
>
>
> On 1/19/12 2:00 PM, "Sebastian Mohr" wrote:
>
>> I am still unsure whether we should continue these
>> "Best Coding Pract
I think where the contrib discussion ended was when people wanted to commit
code that wasn't theirs (frameworks). From what I remember, the discussion
switched over to having a wiki post with links to existing frameworks, and
not putting them in the contrib trunk.
Code samples using a framework i
On 1/19/12 2:00 PM, "Sebastian Mohr" wrote:
> I am still unsure whether we should continue these
> "Best Coding Practises" discussions on the flex-dev
> list. Why not using the flex-users list for it?
>
> As stated in a previous message: an analogy
> to the car industry might help to make thi
> The flex-dev list should be responsible for building
> the "car parts" (Flex SDK). But they should not take
> care which type of "car" (Flex app) we build, and,
> how we'd drive that thing.
>
> The flex-users list should take care which type of "car"
> (Flex app) we build, and, how we'd drive tha
I am still unsure whether we should continue these
"Best Coding Practises" discussions on the flex-dev
list. Why not using the flex-users list for it?
As stated in a previous message: an analogy
to the car industry might help to make this clear:
The flex-dev list should be responsible for buil
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 1:44 PM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz <
> bdelacre...@apache.org
> > wrote:
>
> > In a "contrib" or "samples" area in svn, to
> > make it clear that those represent their author's ideas but not
> > necessarily "the only way".
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:40 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> In a "contrib" or "samples" area in svn, to
> make it clear that those represent their author's ideas but not
> necessarily "the only way".
>
I agree and it seems like that was the way the conversation was playing out.
--
Jonathan C
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:31 PM, Jonathan Campos wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz >... Application coding standards is IMO definitely on-topic for this
>> project - if some people don't want to discuss them, just ignore those
>> threads.
>>
> I think people were happy
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Peter Elst wrote:
> ...If it must happen, wouldn't this rather be something for the flex-dev list?
> My thinking was that the user list is for support questions not best
> practices discussions...
I don't know, that's probably one of those edge cases.
>
> Is the
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:25 PM, Peter Elst wrote:
>>
>>
>> > the flex-users list...
>>
>> With my mentor hat on, I disagree with this.
>>
>
>
> If it must happen, wouldn't this rather be something for the flex-dev list?
> My thinking was that the user list is for support questions not best
> prac
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Bertrand Delacretaz wrote:
> Application coding standards is IMO definitely on-topic for this
> project - if some people don't want to discuss them, just ignore those
> threads.
>
I think people were happy about talking about it, but didn't want to have
an "offic
>
>
> > the flex-users list...
>
> With my mentor hat on, I disagree with this.
>
If it must happen, wouldn't this rather be something for the flex-dev list?
My thinking was that the user list is for support questions not best
practices discussions.
Is there a best practice like a [Discussion] s
On Thu, Jan 19, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> We had this discussion already ... unfortunately, talking
> about Application Coding Standards is not allowed on
> the flex-users list...
With my mentor hat on, I disagree with this.
Application coding standards is IMO definitely on-topic
I read that thread, and there is clearly no consensus there other than the
fact that it turned into two discussions, 1.) Should we have a flex-users
list (which has been resolved, we now have this list), and 2.) should the
discussion about application best practices be moved to that list (this was
We had this discussion already ... unfortunately, talking
about Application Coding Standards is not allowed on
the flex-users list. See previous discussion:
[VOTE] Moving "Best Coding Practices" talks to the flex-user list?
http://markmail.org/search/?q=+list%3Aorg.apache.incubator.flex-dev+%5B
Then maybe that's a topic for flex-users mailing list and not for flex-dev?
-omar
Thx omar,
My proposal actually also deals with the possibility that there can be
many different Application Coding Standards ... see diagram:
http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/ApplicationDevelopmentProcedure
All I am trying here is to find "[...] people, usually [which] have very strong
o
Application architecture, coding conventions and "best practices" are all
topics with high contention. People usually have very strong opinions on
what they think is the "right way" and what they will not do. Because of
that I would rather prefer that we steered way clear of trying to come up
with
Due to our last discussion about code examples, I would like
to discuss the procedure we should follow when writing these
code examples.
I also would like to point out that there is a difference between
writing Component Code Examples which should illustrate the
functionality of a component (
On 1/16/12 12:08 AM, "Tink" wrote:
> The problem with this is you would have to keep right on top of it.
> It's like ECMA listing all the JS frameworks?
>
> I'm with Alex, these projects should have their own site and own
> examples and we shouldn't try and sway people to one or the other by
The problem with this is you would have to keep right on top of it.
It's like ECMA listing all the JS frameworks?
I'm with Alex, these projects should have their own site and own
examples and we shouldn't try and sway people to one or the other by
having listed on Apache Flex.
Tink
On 1
> And thus, we should probably not use application frameworks in our examples
> on the project website. The application framework vendors should have
> their
> own examples on their website.
Maybe we could have a wiki with references to those application framework
vendor examples, and other Apac
And thus, we should probably not use application frameworks in our examples
on the project website. The application framework vendors should have their
own examples on their website.
On 1/15/12 10:21 AM, "Anne Kathrine Petterøe" wrote:
> So for this we would need to contact the Legal PMC.
--
On 15 January 2012 11:25, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> @Bertrand
>
> Would there be any legal issues when using
> third party Opensource libraries in these Apache
> Flex code examples?
>
> Here are some Opensource-Microarchitectures
> which are commonly used when building Flex apps:
>
> Cairngorm 2, Ca
On Sun, Jan 15, 2012 at 5:53 AM, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> For the moment, I doubt that it is time- and cost-effective
> build large-scale Flex apps (e.g. more then 250 MXML files)
> without the use of third-party Microarchitectures. Therefore,
> I would only contribute code which shows the usage w
>
> Be careful guys. Remember that if this is what he wants to work on he can.
> We all can vote if these projects go into our samples rather than his
> sandbox later.
>
Absolutely, good point to make. I'm just giving my own perspective but
anyone is obviously free to work on whatever he/she want
> I agree. We should to the best of our abilities focus on just Flex right
> now.
Be careful guys. Remember that if this is what he wants to work on he can.
We all can vote if these projects go into our samples rather than his
sandbox later.
We can't dictate what people work on, only what we acce
> Can't speak to any legal issues but personally I'd prefer generic plain
> vanilla Flex code examples rather than examples of various
> microarchitectures, trying to keep those in sync as they change and
ending
> up with more support questions about the third party implementations
than
> the ac
Sorry ... me German ... here the last sentence again:
If there would be a gathering of another team which could
prove that building large-scale Flex apps is [also] affordable
[without the usage of Microarchitectures], then, I would be
happy to see their code in the Apache Flex "samples" folder.
For the moment, I doubt that it is time- and cost-effective
build large-scale Flex apps (e.g. more then 250 MXML files)
without the use of third-party Microarchitectures. Therefore,
I would only contribute code which shows the usage with
Microarchitectures. And when a Microarchitecture needs to
> Would there be any legal issues when using
> third party Opensource libraries in these Apache
> Flex code examples?
>
> Here are some Opensource-Microarchitectures
Can't speak to any legal issues but personally I'd prefer generic plain
vanilla Flex code examples rather than examples of various
@Bertrand
Would there be any legal issues when using
third party Opensource libraries in these Apache
Flex code examples?
Here are some Opensource-Microarchitectures
which are commonly used when building Flex apps:
Cairngorm 2, Cairngorm License, MIT License ...
http://sourceforge.net/adobe/c
2012/1/14 Bertrand Delacretaz :
> But nothing prevents ApacheFlex from including, alongside its core
> product, various sample applications that demonstrate various
> approaches.
of course not, and I really like the idea of having a contrib or samples area.
Dirk.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 12:23 PM, Dirk Eismann wrote:
> ...IMHO there is no "right" (nor "wrong") way in how to architect a Flex
> application at all. And as you can see it's actually depending very
> much on your very POV and preferences. Getting consensus on this hot
> (religious?) topic will be
It's a good thing I don't get worked up about things. :P
#toomuchcaffeineortechnomusic
On Friday, January 13, 2012, jude wrote:
> The Flex SDK (the Apache Flex project) is the source of everything
related to Flex. If you want to get Flex you come here. Isn't this now the
official channel / site?
I would be glad to write it but it seems to me that people are suggesting
resources or tutorials (no matter what they are) shouldn't be apart of this
project. I disagree with that. Or I'm suggesting that we have a descendant
site that does provide these resources.
As far as the best way to design
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:03 PM, Rui Silva wrote:
> ...While I'd
> expect all code in Whiteboard to result initially from TRUNK branching, the
> contents in CONTRIBS and SAMPLES could be or not
I wouldn't set *any* expectation on whiteboard stuff - think of it
like a whiteboard in a conferenc
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 1:00 PM, David Arno wrote:
> Thanks Bertrand. It's good to see that Apache already has a solution to this
> issue. :)
Flex is not the first project where it's hard to agree on some things,
so you'll find that the ASF has created a number of mechanisms along
the way to hel
> From: "Bertrand Delacretaz"
> Many projects have a "contrib" folder in their code repository, where
> code that's not part of the core project but might be interesting to
> part of the community lives. Same for "samples".
>
Was trying to get my head around what contrib and sample would be and h
Thanks Bertrand. It's good to see that Apache already has a solution to this
issue. :)
David.
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 12:43 PM, David Arno wrote:
> ...I'm going to repeat myself from yesterday here. If you think this
> documentation is useful, get writing it...
Or write some code, maybe an example application, that exposes your ideas.
>
> ...If what you commit it or submit it as a patch
Original Message
> From: "Sebastian Mohr"
> Sent: sexta-feira, 13 de Janeiro de 2012 11:35
> To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Goal for Flex: Strengthening large-scale Flex applications
>
> Hey Jude ...
>
... Don't make it bad.
Sorry, I couldn't help myself... :)
The Flex SDK (the Apache Flex project) is the source of everything related
to Flex. If you want to get Flex you come here. Isn't this now the official
channel / site? Is there another site that people will go? If this *is* the
official place then it should be the landing page for Flex resources or
No offence but now I know what my Project Manager goes through when we have
a design discussion. *tongue in cheek*
Thanks
Avinash Y
On Fri, Jan 13, 2012 at 5:13 PM, David Arno wrote:
> > From: jude [mailto:flexcapaci...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: 13 January 2012 10:48
> >
> > I have to agree with Se
> From: jude [mailto:flexcapaci...@gmail.com]
> Sent: 13 January 2012 10:48
>
> I have to agree with Sebastian on this. I think it is the responsibility
of the architects to
> show how they intend the architecture should be used. At least in an
abstract way.
I'm going to repeat myself from yeste
Hey Jude ...
I had to understand yesterday ... this flex-dev
list is not the place to discuss these issues.
Maybe an analogy to the car industry
would help to make this clear:
"We are here to build car parts. But we don't care which
type of car you build, and, how you'd drive that thing."
Pr
agree. I also think this should be handled differently and not by Apache Flex.
IMHO there is no "right" (nor "wrong") way in how to architect a Flex
application at all. And as you can see it's actually depending very
much on your very POV and preferences. Getting consensus on this hot
(religious?)
m]
Sent: 13 January 2012 10:48
To: flex-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: Goal for Flex: Strengthening large-scale Flex applications
I have to agree with Sebastian on this. I think it is the responsibility of
the architects to show how they intend the architecture should be used. At
least in an
Jude don't get me wrong but clearly I still don't believe it's an Apache
Flex matter. Apache Flex exists to drive the future of the project, not to
teach people how they should do something. Yes, if new stuff comes around,
documentation about new features should be available,eventually some specs
m
I have to agree with Sebastian on this. I think it is the responsibility of
the architects to show how they intend the architecture should be used. At
least in an abstract way.
Flex apps with or without micro frameworks have a common setup across them
in general. It would be helpful going forward
On Wednesday, January 11, 2012, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> @Roland
>
> hmm ... maybe you are right ;) But this is not my concern
> now. I am talking about building large-scale Flex apps and
> how to build them the best way.
>
>
> -- Sebastian
>
>
I get what you're saying and I totally feel you, but
I think what would be MUCH more productive is a PR effort to show off
really large, well-done Flex apps in enterprises. Developing really large
apps in Flex is much easier than doing the same in HTML/JS today. Even if
the framework might lend itself to some bad practices, or if we don't have
best p
On Wed, Jan 11, 2012 at 2:09 PM, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> I am talking about building large-scale Flex apps and
> how to build them the best way.
>
Eh. I'd say that you'd be spinning your wheels on this one and don't know
how many people would catch on. There are so many frameworks and ways to
de
@Roland
hmm ... maybe you are right ;) But this is not my concern
now. I am talking about building large-scale Flex apps and
how to build them the best way.
-- Sebastian
On Jan 11, 2012, at 8:51 PM, Roland Zwaga wrote:
> Hehe, I think Alex mean the Flash Player as the constrained environme
On 1/11/12 11:47 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" wrote:
> Sorry ... where is a constraint environment in an open Apache Flex?
Flash is a constrained environment. It is a VM running in a browser in an
operating system, surrounded by various layers of security. Developing for
it is not too far removed fr
> From: Raju Bitter [mailto:rajubit...@googlemail.com]
> Sent: 11 January 2012 18:59
>> I will repeat my cautionary statement that we are working in a
>> constrained environment and will likely need to cheat on occasion.
>Right, we only need to know when we should cheat. :-)
I got the impressio
Hehe, I think Alex mean the Flash Player as the constrained environment
here, i.e. it has some limitations.
On 11 January 2012 20:47, Sebastian Mohr wrote:
> @Alex ...
>
> > Some coding practice document will be a good thing, but I can still write
> > bad code using it.
>
>
> IMHO ... there is n
@Alex ...
> Some coding practice document will be a good thing, but I can still write
> bad code using it.
IMHO ... there is no need to waste time in writing more documentation ...
we need more a "SHOW ME THE CODE" (in short "SMTC") approach ...
just "SMTC" and only "SMTC". Time to philosophize
On 1/11/12 10:59 AM, "Raju Bitter" wrote:
> Right, we only need to know when we should cheat. :-)
Here's a real life example. In a prototype of carving UIComponent into many
little pieces, it suffered from overhead of calling between the styles and
layout pieces. It might be in some future,
> I will repeat my cautionary statement that we are working in a constrained
> environment and will likely need to cheat on occasion.
Right, we only need to know when we should cheat. :-)
On 1/11/12 8:17 AM, "Sebastian Mohr" wrote:
> I think what the Flex community really needs is some
> kind of website where best coding practice examples
> will be collected and managed for the next ongoing
> years of Flex.
Some coding practice document will be a good thing, but I can still wri
On Jan 11, 2012, at 4:41 PM, Quentin Le Hénaff wrote:
> I propose to list all bad design we know about the Flex 3 and 4 frameworks
> and propose technical/designs solutions ; should the JIRA do the stuff?
For the moment, I have done it the other way
around ... which means proposing "good design"
>
> As part of my research, for now I think "Building large-scale
> Flex applications is simple" is a false-proof statement. If you
> don't believe that, please have a look to all those Flex application
> which have to deal with more then 150 MXML files and all their
> worries and issues they ran i
I would like define a goal for future versions of Flex:
Goal: "Strengthening large-scale Flex applications"
http://code.google.com/p/masuland/wiki/WhatsWrongWithFlex#3.1._Strengthening_large-scale_Flex_applications
As part of my research, for now I think "Building large-scale
Flex applications
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