My early impression of electrathon racing was that it was a trivial
entertainment for high school kids. This was until the 1999 SolWest
renewable energy fair in John Day, Oregon, when I witnessed my first
race in person. The race was held at the high school running track in
nearby Canyon City.
Oh yeah, a stroke of pure genius, that.
Here in Oregon, EV's are nailed with double registration fees.
Additionally there is a "road fuel tax replacement" fee that
penalizes vehicles based on fuel economy, but not in the way that
you'd expect. Cars that get higher fuel mileage pay MORE in fees
> Sorry, but EVs *DO* cause damage to road surfaces and bridges
Agreed, and that isn't what I said, anyway.
If one was in the mood to split hairs on the subject, it would be
accurate to point out that EV fuel isn't delivered in bulk by
tractor-trailer rigs before being distributed. This alone
By no means am I any sort of an expert on this, but I have been
following some of the efforts by Oregon to replace/augment/make more
equitable the road fuel tax structure, both for EV's and ICE's.
One pilot program was based on annual mileage. The shake-down at the
end of the program was that
An interesting read, I'll be forwarding this to several Muskiphiles
who think that the world revolves around Elon, and who've neglected
to consider others in the Tesla sphere who actually made the
technology possible.
Here's a link to the original article:
https://time.com/6176778/jb-straubel
One must also keep in mind that there are significant differences in
the design requirements for brakes intended for heavy service such as
racing. Most significant is the compound of the friction pads in the
brakes. Most performance disc brake pad compounds don't actually
provide much braking p
> requires both public and private locations where EV
> charging is offered to provide "gasoline or diesel fuel for motor
> vehicles through a pump to the public at no charge
The local electric utility (it's a PUD) installed two free 30 Amp
EVSE pedestals at their office in town some time back.
> They're looking at it wrong. They're not giving away free fuel, they're
> encouraging people to use EVs. That saves the city, and its taxpayers,
> money in the long run.
Hypocrisy Alert!
This same utility offers rebates for home EVSE installation, has held
multiple EV demonstrations in vario
> -EVSEs have safety interlocks that prevent EVs from
> going into drive while charging
Actually, the J1722 protocols don't say anything about defeating
vehicle motion. If such an inhibit feature is implemented, it's
taking place in the vehicle's circuits sensing that the charging
handle is in
> ... politicians waving flags and clubs and pushing
> their nationalist belligerence. Present batteries
> use raw materials that raise political concerns. ... instead
> of worrying so much about charging speed, electrochemists
> should be concentrating their efforts on developing batteries
> tha
> A robot with a 100kwh battery will be
> the size of Optimus Prime
And therein lies the potential failure of this somewhat silly idea.
With this scheme, a charging EV takes up two parking places instead
of just one. That's going to be real popular in crowded cities, or
any city, for that matt
> please don't use solar vehicles as a way to mock
> something that is actually stupid.
Once upon a time, passengers crossed the oceans in lighter-than-air
craft surrounded by opulent comfort.
Apple and Android have made the Dick Tracy 2-Way Wrist TV a reality.
Flying cars and personal jet-pa
Wondering if anyone knows the status of Manzanita Micro these days?
I've been attempting to contact them regarding a repair to my PFC20
charger, but phone messages go unreturned, and the "contact us" form
on their web site throws loads of PHP errors. Site hasn't been
updated since 2019.
Hopin
> ... off-roading in the Olympics, so
> he's still around, having some fun!
Thanks Rod, now I won't lay awake all night worrying about him -or- my charger!
> ... I thought you meant that driving vehicles off-road had
> become an Olympic sport. But I guess that means the
> Olympic Mountains in W
> Due to not having $3000 for one of the commercial BMS setups for
> my new (well, surplus used) 192 cell pack. (2 strings of 96), I'm going
> to usse some of the little BMS boards you can get for power
> tools (18650 cells).
John, you may be discovering the fly-in-the-ointment concerning
poorly
> I converted a Cushman ... to electric many moons ago (in the 90s).
> It has a small truck box on the back.
What you are describing is my first car, a Cushman "Mailster",
retired from the US Postal Service. It had a small cube box with
front and rear roll-up doors and instead of a steering whe
Actually, I took the time to edit my profile just so I could reply to
this topic. Apparently, the listserv hates DreamHost (among others),
which is the SMTP server for my outgoing mail for my domain. I think
Lee and others have had similar problems.
> I don't suppose you can post that on somet
> why fault them for profiting from their groundbreaking work?
Oh sure, I get that. Problem is, they came on at first promising
affordable transportation. Then the Musk-cult mentality took over,
and now they produce high-end vehicles for people with disposable
income who don't mind laying it o
> won't have enough cash to grow production at a high rate and be able to
> product [produce] a LOT more vehicles?
No, as I said, and you quoted, I get that. I guess I am bemoaning,
generally, the direction that vehicle, and apparently all
manufacturing is going.
I know two people who sold li
> So, why isn't the Nissan Leaf outselling Teslas?
Couldn't possibly have anything to do with its appearance, could it? ;-P
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EVDLL = Electric Vehicle Discussion List Lackey
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> In a way, he acts like a dictator
Oh, interesting. At the risk of throwing this discussion off-topic
(hell, it's already bouncing off the guardrails as-is):
Whenever I hear the term "dictator" tossed around casually, I
encourage people to examine the origins of the term, and the several
i
> Any ideas how I can get a good set without breaking my budget?
> Are Leaf modules still a good way to go?
Sure, leaf modules work fine, if you can find them. You'll need to
have ten modules, two in parallel and five pairs in series to allow
for the current that an ET running an implement can
Apart from the topic subject getting hijacked for an unrelated inquiry:
The motor would be tempting as a spare if it wasn't on the other side
of the world, shipping would be expensive to the west coast.
Any other SCT bits and baubles available? Proprietary things like the
controller, fuse and
> Look what I just found...do you want it?
Oh yeah, that's what we're talkin' about! And it looks to be sitting
on the hood of an Electrak.
I read the archives of messages, and as such, don't view email
addresses. If you'd like to arrange purchase and shipping, my address
can be found here:
Thanks Phil. I've been being very mature in my resolve to not throw
in on this off-kilter topic for fear of offending the poor,
downtrodden Tesla owners who are feeling persecuted here.
> modifying YOUR car without YOUR permission
Oh, but no, YOU may own the ~hardware~ but THEY own the softwar
>> They want to gather data. It has serious value.
>
> And I don't want to give it to them.
>
> I'm paying them to charge. I don't owe them anything else.
Oh come now, David. The overall mindset of anyone and everyone who
uses a schmott phone or any one or other of social media sites is
that "
Lee hart via EV wrote:
> Corrections to your insurance policy based on your driving
Hmmm, You almost make that aspect sound like a bad thing. From my
observances, the majority of other drivers I encounter on the road
need and deserve this "feature".
Of course the newest road-worthy ICE that
Yeah, 13" rims and tires have pretty well went the way of the dodo. I
changed over to 14" twenty years ago, and haven't looked back. This,
of course, depends on the vehicle involved.
Tire Rack is quite reputable, I've purchased tire and had them
shipped to my mailing address several times.
N
> I bet you'll be lucky to get 15, and you'll have to park
> in the sun with no shade to do it. If you just took the
> same cells and covered your parking space
> with them, it's a better use of them.
The practical thinkers here have been beating the "solar powered car"
boosters on this list o
> How is it that we can shop anywhere, and have no
> trouble paying with any of half a dozen methods.
> Yet to charge an EV, there are all these artificial
> hoops we have to jump through?
Because we are good little lab rats.
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> from my experience with my 1985 electric Avanti
> I get more interest than the Tesla parked next
I've been finding this true for a while now. When my
factory-conversion 1981 Rabbit is parked a few spaces down from any
Tesla, I see people inspecting it or taking selfies alongside it. I
get ap
> How about using one of the headlight cleaning kits
A fast, easy, cheap fix for this is to scrub the daylights out of the
covers with a section of wet newspaper sprinkled liberally with
"Barkeepers Friend" scouring powder. Follow up after rinsing with
another clean, wet section of newspaper,
> They [Tesla] also offer very few variations
And the model seems to be that some (or many) of the options are
built into every car manufactured, then turned on or off via
software, allowing the cars to be much closer in build complexity,
while still offering the buyer the full range of option
> It appears no one has any such info. And in my opinion,
> whatever you saw was a hoax.
Not a hoax. I very recently read the exact description of what Nick
has written, and it seems it came directly from Toyota. I stumbled
across this while researching the Mirai on Wikipedia
https://en.wikipe
> I've read through the Wikipedia entry 3 times, and
> I find nothing of the sort in it
Yes, and I pretty much said so in my message. All I'm putting forth
is that Nick's statement that started this OT thread was an almost
verbatim repeat of something I read myself in the last few weeks, so
ei
> Anyone can make a Wikipedia edit.
Just as anyone can make an edit on Wikipedia, anyone can view the
edit history of any page:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Toyota_Mirai&action=history
. See any edits for the last week or so that could match the one we
are discussing? Good thing
> "We were just kidding!"
> -- Someone at Tesla, apparently
What a bunch of douches! Is this really the people we want building
the future of global land transportation?
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> Berlin researchers hacked Tesla autopilot
And this is surprising for what reason?
The first iPhone was jailbroken just 11 days after being released.
Clever hackers rise to the challenge of new products to subvert if
only because they can.
Makes me glad the only mission-critical microproces
> all the buttons, stalks, switches, etc that mimic
> obsolete cars and satisfies those with such fetishes.
Exactly how is having commonly used controls that are needed for the
safe operation of a vehicle right out in plain sight and easily
adjusted without requiring the driver to take eyes off
> As far as I know, all of the Tesla's are available without
> the Full Self Driving and Autopilot software. Since you
> have to pay extra for those features, they are cheaper.
Ah, but you ~are~ paying extra for those features, even if you don't
enable them, as the *hardware* to support them is
> you've made your bias clear
Oh, I'm not necessarily biased against the vehicles, it's not
arguable that they don't represent the pinnacle of automotive
technology to date. My bias is against the company, which seems to
operate on a very rigid, control-freak centric business plan. That
and a
You're right, Larry, I should be charging big money for these flashes
of brilliance!
Lawrence Winiarski wrote:
Stopgiving...them...ideas
On Saturday, January 13, 2024, 9:39:14 AM PST, Mr. Sharkey via EV
wrote:
Making vehicles with intuitive control layout is a safety fe
> What's best?
For a Tesla? No idea, but my gut feeling is that when the
instrumentation indicates 0% state of charge, there's probably still
5-10% left in the battery. You'll be fine. Read your warranty just in case.
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OK, this topic has induced me to resubscribe to the EVDL, it's
probably been 20 years since I was officially signed up. I've
occasionally passed replies through several members (thanks Lee,
thanks David), but maybe it's time to get out in the open.
What you have there is similar to the shunt-w
Glad you found it informative.
These motors are frequently called "forklift motors", probably
because, well, they were used in forklifts... Your Siemens controller
is likely a "forklift controller", assuming that the conversion
company didn't design one from scratch and have Siemens construct
It's going to be very interesting to hear your report about this van
when you get it running. I can't imagine how they made it even close
to streetable with no gear changes and reverse being changing the
rotation of that motor! You can get away with that kind of stuff with
a series motor.
Som
What we seem to have deduced is that the controller and motor are a
matched pair. It seems without doubt that the controller manages the
voltage delivered to both the armature and the fields, otherwise the
"reverse switch" wouldn't be workable. I'd image that the sequence
would be something lik
> It takes 1 BTU to raise one pound one degree.
The engineer in me won't allow this to pass unchallenged, although in
the context of this discussion, it probably doesn't matter.
It takes 1 BTU to raise one pound OF WATER one degree. You have to
consider the latent heat of whatever the object
No, you're not being misunderstood, but you apparently are
misunderstanding how the module-level inverters will be accepted by
your power provider.
Virtually ~all~ utility companies require a customer who plans to
produce power and introduce it to their grid to have complied with
stringent re
>>We're going back to the way intertie started off decades ago. The
utilities
imposed impossible technical and insurance requirements on net metering,
which led PV hobbyists to start the Guerrilla Solar movement -- essentially
doing grid intertie on the sly.
This is veering around and nearly cl
>> I hadn't really thought about it much until now,
>> but wouldn't that be yet another way for the "coal rollers"
>> to hassle EV drivers?
Works both ways. The reason that these knuckle-draggers can force
their engines to over-fuel is because of tampering with the engine
management computer's
Yep, scorched a plastic hood scoop on my pusher trailer while
displaying a glass gallon jug of Biodiesel at the OEVA exhibition at
the Portland OMSI museum in 2002. Refraction is a harsh mistress...
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I'm going to throw in on this as well. I'm still running on Goodyear
Invicta GLR's.
The first set I purchased after talking to Tom Egan of Goodyear, who
recommended pumping them up to 50+ PSI, he had little concern about
raising the pressure above the sidewall recommendations. My tire
retaile
>> what size were you looking for on which car model?
The EV is a 1981 VW Rabbit.
I don't know how particular I can be about size. Logic dictates that
narrow is better for rolling resistance. The car (as manufactured)
had 155-70R13's on it, but the conversion factory upgraded it to
5-1/2" wid
>> William Egan - Retired - Chief Engineer/Team Leader - Goodyear Tire ...
Bill Egan, not Tom, I realized that as soon as I pressed 'send', but
you can't suck the data back to correct. (if auto-correct is so
smart, why didn't it catch that?)
Catching tire wear before it shows in the tread is
Since we are trotting out charging tales, here's mine, it ties in
with Bob's EV charging sign thread nicely as well:
Last year, right after I did my LiFePO4 conversion, I was unsure of
my range, and still being cautious about charging before heading out
to my rural home from town. I asked a bu
Maybe I'll have a few made up and post them myself - "guerrilla
style" - near convenient-looking receptacles down at the po-lice station!! ;)
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Pleas
If it's not responding according to the instructions in the manual,
give Rich Rudman a call at Manzanita, he knows ~everything~. Be
prepared to spend some time on the phone, you'll learn lots about
that everything.
If necessary, send it back to them for repair. Mine's been back twice
after I
Can't say about the availability of v.3 boards, the whole Clean Power
Auto inventory and business was sold to an Australian or New Zealand
company that modified the design, but seem to still be supplying units.
The "original" MiniBMS design ~was~ an open source project that was
developed on th
>> A URL or name for this company would be appreciated.
Try this, although it seems some of the products are discontinued/out-of-stock:
https://evparts.com.au/ev-power-bms.html
>> Let me know once you have a few extra to sell.
This will likely be a fall/winter project, once the year's firewood
>> I read recently that at many commercial EVSEs in France, billing is
strictly by time connected, not energy usage.
Something else to consider is that many utilities forbid the
reselling of their energy. In fact, in Oregon, its a state law, and
probably is elsewhere as well. No laws say you c
>> AM radio would be nearly useless without those 50,000 watt broadcast
stations.
Actually, there are a limited number of those clear channel 50KW
stations, and for obvious reasons, a limited number of clear channels
for them to broadcast on.
Most AM stations have much more modest power level
>> Anybody have experience with this or any other J1772 adapter?
Like several of the other respondents, I built my own after the local
utility put in two 30 ampere EVSE pedestals at the front of their
office in town.
The components to signal the EVSE to begin charging aren't at all
expensive
While I can see how it might be appealing to try and purify the EV
Album to only display BEV's, those calling for that action should
consider the epic amount of work you would be tossing at Mike
Chancey. Every one of the 5400+ registered vehicles would need to be
reviewed, and a value judgement
Time to turn up the dial on the technical channel.
After converting my car to a lightly-used set of Thundersky 160's,
I've finally gotten around to having some thermal images taken of the
cells after running the car up to temperature. My purpose was to make
sure that none of my cell interconne
Thanks everyone for the thoughtful replies. I'm very hopeful that the
problem is something external that I have control over, rather than
internal, which I don't. I'll be putting lots of attention into that
terminal, strap and hardware tomorrow. It will be embarrassing if it
turns out to be som
Well, it looks like this issue may have been one of my own making.
When I went to remove the cell interconnect strap, both bolts into
the cell terminals were "just snug", not tight. Apparently I got
distracted when completing the BMS card swap, and didn't torque the bolts.
The straps are made
>> Glad you found something!
Yeah, me too. I went all around the battery and tested torque on the
rest of the 74 bolts, and only found a few that needed an extra
foot-pound or two. The threads have been coated with anti-seize, so
there is good lubrication, but I'm really gun-shy (wrench-shy?)
>> It is possible that the Noalox had become separated in the bottle
>> but as a long term industrial electrician who has never used
>> the stuff before, I decided to use the tried and tested method of having
>> bright clean (tight) connections.
That's always my first choice also, bright and tigh
Not to draw this topic out too far, but I thought I'd post an image
that shows what I inherited when I bought the conversion truck and
began removing the cells for installation in my car.
This is large image, but I left it in the original resolution after
cropping so that the details wouldn't
>> SFChronicle attempts to force ad viewing. Screw 'em.
Likewise.
I did dig through the page code and copy-paste the fifth photo
address, so now I have a face to go with the name.
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> Use one of these:
>
> https://postimages.org/
> http://www.uploadhouse.com/
>
> Neither site even requires registration. It's easy, just point and click
> with your browser. The photo posts, and they give you the URL for viewing.
A note of caution: Be sure you read and agree completely with
Since converting my car from lead to lithium, I've shaved about 600
pounds from the overall weight of the car, mostly from the rear axle
load. Of course, this means that the rear end is up in the air due to
the over-large rear coil springs that the conversion factory installed.
Last weekend, I
Bill;
That's possibly ~very~ useful, assuming that I can actually find any
Audi 4000's to part out. Makes my heart ache, there used to be loads
of them at the wrecking yard I haunted 20 years ago. Still, it's
something to work towards.
I have the Suplex Coils Spring Application Guide from 20
After doing a morning of fleabay research and consulting my Suprex
spring catalog, I took a leap of faith and purchased a set of two new
replacement springs from a seller in Germany for $75 w/shipping. I
probably could have fooled around trying to find a parts car
somewhere, or used some of the
I'm having a hard time figuring out how forcing a several hundred
thousand people to rely on hardware store gasoline generators and
extension cords to light their homes is reducing the fire danger.
Sounds a lot more like PG&E reducing their liability and foisting it
onto their ratepayers.
On
>> (The projector system) has to know exactly where your eye is, to
position the image correctly.
My understanding is that Tesla already has the ability to program the
headrests on seats to follow the movement of the passengers heads so
to keep the cushion directly behind as a safety feature.
>> Tesla car drives itself through parking lots with 'Smart Summon' feature...
I can't figure this whole "self driving/autopilot" thing out at all.
If I paid that much for a car, I'd want to drive it myself, why let a
computer have all (or any) of the fun?
> More to the point, lead-acid batteries are not recycled at "nearly 100%" as
> claimed. If you look at the numbers provided by the lead industry
itself, at
> _least_ 30% of them escape the recycling stream
Hopefully, whoever does this sort of bean counting took into account
the number of batt
> Perhaps it was the cannabis division that suggested it could be different.
If that were the case, the value of Pi would be 4.20
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No complaints here about the body styling. It's about time that EV
designers offered some conservative looks that don't scream "I'm an
EV, Look at me!"
The only minor quibbles I might toss out are that I'm not crazy about
cab-forward designs, and that some of us who don't have kids to stuff
i
> Or are you suggesting that they might have produced something usable
> had they been manufacturing small cars for as long as the Japanese
> automakers had?
Precisely this. After they bombed with the Corvair, there was little
to show for small economy cars, aside from Chevy II, Nova, etc. As
u
While I agree with Gail that more trees would be preferable to more
cars, more EV's is much more preferable to more ICE's.
Face it, those trees are eventually going to be paved over in the
name of "progress", is it more or less noble to be felled for a
purpose that will result in less overall
> The controller is just an on-off switch to a PM
> motor; you control speed and direction with the
> 4-speed transmission and v-belt/clutch
Sorry to disagree with you Lee, but that doesn't describe the
E12/15/20 series of GE Electraks at all.
The E12's do use PM motors driving a 4 speed Peerl
Depending on the version (and condition) of the boards, they are
repairable. The most common failure is of the optical relay that
isolates the cell module from the controller head. It's not a
particularly expensive part, and although it's surface mount (SMD),
it has only four leads, and can be
I sense a beautiful online relationship in the making here.
Unfortunately, I'm using the Nabble web archive to read messages,
which means I can't see your contact information (or even your name,
since Nabble bollixed up the interface a few years ago).
Here's a little email address puzzle to co
The MiniBMS system was originally started as an open source project
by users of the DIY Electric Car forum. It was mostly spearheaded by
Dimitri, with input from several interested users. The first version
as intended to be able to used with all the cell modules on one PCB,
with voltage sense w
A couple of weeks back, there was an ongoing discussion about
building a custom battery that Peri was designing. An offshoot post
from that by Tim Economu offered an open source BMS/cell module
assembly project that he had worked up:
http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com
My fantasy BMS would be to have the cell modules communicate with the
downstream electronics by way of fiber optic cable. Think of it, no
galvanic coupling, complete lack of magnetic induction pickup (no
shielding needed), wideband data path, low/no RF generation. A very
simple system could be
Tim;
I'm glad you posted this. I didn't know how much attention your
desired, but wanted the members of the list to recognize your contribution.
We haven't met or talked, but I'm sure if we did, we'd discover that
we have only a degree or two of separation in the RE industry, and
probably ot
> Use parts and methods with a *proven*
> reliability record; not whatever is cheap and handy.
Cheap And Handy is my alternate identity in the workshop!! ;)
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The usual instrument for measuring insulation leakage is called a
"megger" or "hipot tester". This can give you a quantified value of
the leakage in ohms-per-volts. Most any motor shop will have one, and
can test for you.
Finding your fault is likely going to me more involved even if you
buy
> I think the real problem is that our world leaders are incompetent
> sailors. They can't read the map of the future, don't understand the
> winds of change, and have no clear idea of where they are even heading.
Meanwhile, those of us who care are locked in the cargo hold of this
ship of fools
> With modern electronics you could react very quickly if the draw
> dropped (current flow started to go negative) and essentially never
> backfeed the grid.
Such a project is already developed and it's Open Source!
http://openenergymonitor.org/
I was involved in this project in the very early
Car and Driver wrote:
"CitiCar didn't win any beauty pageants -- it looked like a cross
between a doorstop and a milk carton"
HAHAHAHAHA!
Who says gear heads don't have a way with words?
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A
The Goodyear Invicta GLR's on my car finally had to be replaced after
all these years. Tire wear was one factor, but mostly, they were
beginning to look unsafe, all checked and separating. The random
take-off used tires I had on hand to replace them bit me with a 13%
increase in energy consumpt
> Your choices will probably be wider if you splurge for
> 15" wheels and fit lower profile tires...
David, thanks, I'll look into the Nokian's. 185-65/14 will work
although I'd prefer them in 60-series tires.
This ~would~ be a whole lot easier if I was willing to bump up a
wheel size, but th
Great tech advice as usual, Bill.
Contacting a wheel repair place here in Oregon (Eugene area is the
closest), I find that straightening the three slightly deformed 14x6"
factory alloy wheels that I intended to use is $150 each. I about
choked on that price, then I found out what a set of thes
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