just an example the author has found?
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: "Hiroshi Yamashita" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 4:14 AM
Subject: [computer-go] Maximum number of strings
GPW(Game Programming Workshop) w
erflow I will blame you :-).
Chrilly
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eta
selective/intelligent move-generators.
Chrilly
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orrelation and I think the local-mode of GoAhead is a simple but effective
heuristic.
Chrilly
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which are for a human completly trivial are hard to
formalize.
Chrilly
InsideOutside.sgf
Description: Binary data
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1/2 liberty.
Unfortunately this rule is not valid in the position. White is
unconditionally dead. All liberties are equal, some are more equal.
Chrilly
Semeai01.sgf
Description: Binary data
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are other ones like Many Faces which do not suffer
from this problem)..
Chrilly
DoubleThreat.sgf
Description: Binary data
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to the next. They spent now most of the time driving around and not
with dancing. This is also a fundamental computer-go problem. The programm
can not decide where to dance and spends its tempo by jumping around from
one subgame to the next.
Chrilly
Ki
e is definetly off the board. The most difficult piece to
evaluate is a passed pawn. There is no clear material value of a passed
pawn.
Chrilly
InsideOutside.sgf
Description: Binary data
InsideOutside2.sgf
Description: Binary data
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In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Chrilly
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes
The attached position shows the "Kirtag Problem". I have named it after
the Austrian proverb "Man kann nur auf einem Kirtag tanzen" (One can dance
only on one village-party***).
More mathemat
not know if the result
measured at the end-position has some bias.
Chrilly
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ones. One
has certainly to introduce some form of robust statistics. E.g. using the
median instead of the mean or ignoring the minimum and the maximum value.
Chrilly
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ats another question. I have written an article (in German)
about this question. The article can be found at:
http://www.lbremer.de/chrilly.html
If we had infinite computing power Go would resemble tic tac toe from a
programmer's perspective. peri
iks do not even know the game of Go).
What would it mean for a 19x19 player?
What would it mean to build a 10**12 nodes/sec machine (which is with todays
technology not possible, but according to Moores law in 10 years).
Chrilly
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lind for double-attacks.
But my Anti-Many-Faces strategy to "give the ape some sugar" does not work
against Handtalk. Against Handtalk I have to look for infights.
Making no tactical blunders is in Go too less.
Chrilly
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e mated in 89.
I think the top humans would not win a knight-handicap match against God. I
assume in Go the difference is also a very large handicap.
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, it was a very good move
against Adams (but not against God).
I think the same will happen also in Go. They have only a chance if God
plays human-Go. But against non-human moves they are certainly as helpless
as the chess-players. I assume its even worse, because Go is more pattern
relate
hat this self-esteem is usefull for
getting a top player. Like always an overdosis is not healthy.
Chrilly
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to recover from
this blunder.
This is a rather drastic example of Chrillys law: Humans can not play in a
complicated position more than 10 moves in a row without making an serious
blunder. And it also very drastic example how far they are away from God.
changing the original title from "Null move and
deep search: Selective search heuristics for. stupid chess programs" to
"obtuse chess programms". I know what a stupid programm is, but I do not
know till today the meaning of "obtuse".
Chrilly
__
. The speed versus
knowledge/more refined methods is an important part of the game.
Chrilly
===
I have heard this many times - but it doesn't always apply. In fact I
have heard that IMPROVEMENTS always look better against your
twin-brother but if that were true, I would always want to
a harmless bug. The
really bad bugs never show up.
Chrilly
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else had to play follow the leader to catch up.
Do you think its also the future of 19x19 or only of 9x9 (maybe 13x13)?
Chrilly
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Are there any details, or publications, on what Mogo is doing at 19x19?
I'd thought consensus opinion here was that monte carlo scaled to 19x19
badly.
Darren
A very stupid question: What is Mogo, who has it written?
Chrilly
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On a P4 3.0Ghz mono processor, the number of evaluations per seconds is in
the
order of 4500/s in 9x9, 2500 in 13x13 and 1100 in 19x19.
If one assumes 300 moves/Plies on 19x19 it would be about 330 KNodes/sec?
Chrilly
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Le Vendredi 01 Décembre 2006 11:57, Chrilly a écrit :
> On a P4 3.0Ghz mono processor, the number of evaluations per seconds is
> in the
> order of 4500/s in 9x9, 2500 in 13x13 and 1100 in 19x19.
If one assumes 300 moves/Plies on 19x19 it would be about 330 KNodes/sec?
No, that just
lly only done in very mission-critical software. But in your case you
have already a Java and a C++ version. This is a big chance. I would develop
both versions further in parallel.
Chrilly
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http:
much simpler and more efficient than the
double-hashing scheme of Orego.
Chrilly
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use the 16 and the 2 chunk is also not used anymore).
Note: I have not yet written an UCT programm. The numbers above are
examples. One has to find out the best chunk-sizes by trial and error.
Chrilly
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+1 is completly searched have no
additional information. Usually one does some estimates beforehand if it
pays to search for another iteration.
Chrilly
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, December
round. The
programms are relative weak, because the programmers are all too strong.
Chrilly
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el of ChessBase. I would have liked to invent
this sentence by myself.
Chrilly
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e of the UCT-programmers explains were all this memory is used.
Note: If one uses for each small chunk of memory malloc() there is a
considerable overhead. With STL it gets worse. But STL is anyway no option
for a speed and memory critical programm. It should be relative trivial to
wr
ought Go players have better manners than chess players. This is probably
true in real-live, but on an unpersonal environment of a server all the
Go-etquiette vanishes.
Chrilly
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d. Personally I never
delined a 20 or 21 Kyu. I wanted to play, but it would be more interesting
to play a few ranks below.
Chrilly
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A Hashtable is the "natural" solution to this. In a Hashtable it does not
matter if its a tree or a DAG. The hashtable works just better if it is a
DAG.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: "Peter Drake" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Computer Go"
Sent:
amm realized that the comment before was wrong, the dog can
say "forget it, was just a joke". The difficult part is that it is an
online-algorithm. In case of an annotation one can analyse the whole game
before generating some comments.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From:
cetly?
Chrilly
On 12/13/06, "荒木伸夫" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello. I'm Araki. Nice to meet you.
I'm searching researches about human annotation to game records for
machine learning. (for example, "these stones are weak", "this move is
for attack th
lso natural-language comments. The language is very
restricted, but it is nevertheless difficult to understand/parse it.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Fant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2006 8:51 AM
Subject: Re:
he working of the human mind.
I think it is also generally an interesting and important topic to present
computation results in a more natural way than numbers. The Schweinehund was
just for entertainment. But entertainment is also a serious and difficult
business.
Chrilly
On 12/14/06, Chril
ut its too difficult for me. I admire the Japanese native
speakers which learn English. I think it is also the other way round quite
difficult.
Chrilly
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For testing Suzie on 9x9 we (Peter Woitke and Chrilly) use Gnu-Go Level 16.
Is there something stronger around /available?
Chrilly
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For testing Suzie on 9x9 we (Peter Woitke and Chrilly) use Gnu-Go Level
16.
Is there something stronger around /available?
Yes there is cgos 9X9 ;)
I am used to another development method. I watch the engine-engine-matches
and I change the programm when I see a move which really hurts. I
John Tromp wrote:
This really makes me feel like it's only a matter of time till MC programs can
challenge professionals on 9x9."
I feel that the shodan level go 9x9 programs have arrived...
For Suzie I try for 9x9 to establish a Dan-ranking at the next European
Championship in Villach/Aust
for testing is ok.
Thanks for the information.
Chrilly
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generation, were one travelled to tournament, shake
hand with the programmer of the opponent, entered the moves by hand
These internet tournaments are also a cultural shock.
Chrilly
GnuGo-Suzie_02_43.sgf
Description: Binary data
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it is, an EC is for humans
and not for computers.
Chrilly
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- Original Message -
From: "Nick Wedd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "computer-go"
Sent: Tuesday, January 02, 2007 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Sho-Dan-level at 9x9
In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, Don
Dailey <[EMAIL P
palace and the Cluster is in another
part of the town.
Its for the chess-engine completly transparent. The engine writes/reads to
stdout/stdin. If the GUI is on the same PC, the communication is directly
done. When playing remote SSH (Secure Shell) is started and the rest goes as
before.
Chrilly
of German GMs have now practically stopped
serious chess and play on internet poker.
Chrilly
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- Original Message -
From: "Sanghyeon Seo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Sent: Wednesday, January 03, 2007 10:04 AM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Sho-Dan-level at 9x9
2007/1/3, Chrilly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
As I told before I organized with Nimzo
have a
good time-control "algorithm" there is no need for this trick. He could save
this 30 seks for himself.
Chrilly
Note: One should forget human behaviour generally. A programm is a programm
is a programm.
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c
Ultra-Blitz).
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: "Hiroshi Yamashita" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Sent: Wednesday, January 10, 2007 6:10 PM
Subject: [computer-go] Gnugo vs commercial programs
I tested Gnugo against some commercial programs.
edup is impressive, but the practical is low or
it even slows down things. The neural-network-computation must - in
comparision to the data - very large. Otherwise the transfer of data eats up
all the speedup.
Chrilly
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com
) is worth.
Chrilly
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ills tempo/sente and the net effect
is for all playing levels the same. Monte-Carlo Go is based on this law.
Chrilly
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fast.
I am currently in my private house in Austria, the games are on my computer in
Germany (where I work currently during the week). I will send it on Monday.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: Arend Bayer
To: computer-go
Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 11:09 PM
Subject: Re
ensive and complicated to build such an ASIC.
Chrilly
Note: The softprocessor concept is used currently for a surprising purpose.
Producers of consumer articles like e.g. washing machines have the problem
that the chips for their design are not available any more and replaced by
newer generation
the processing is done with FPGAs.
CT is a somewhat bigger market than computer Go.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: "Chris Fant" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2007 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Go hardwar
-Devices. When we started the project I got a mail, are you the Hydra
programmer. This made things certainly easier.
Chrilly
Original Message -
From: Sylvain Gelly
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; computer-go
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: Re:[computer-go] MoGo
one is to invite the journalist and to cook for them.
They can than write how they liked the eating. Which is already a story about
themselves.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: Sylvain Gelly
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; computer-go
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2007 2:00 PM
Subject: Re: R
s an adaptable error filter.
In Suzie we (Peter Woitke, Stefan Mertin and Chrilly) use Null-Move Pruning,
Multi-Cut and Futility Pruning. History Pruning does not work so far.
move-ordering is not very good and the History-Heurisitic relies on the
fact, that the k+1...n-th have a very low proba
engagement by Siemens rather slow***. Once
this GUI exists we will be able to participate on KGS tournaments and other
programmers could get Suzie if they like.
*** I have also done almost nothing to improve the search, the main progress
is due to Peters intensive work on the evaluation.
Chrilly
.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: "Tom Cooper" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Sent: Friday, April 06, 2007 2:43 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] The dominance of search (Suzie v. GnuGo)
My guess is that the complexity of achieving a fixed standard o
tried not with 0-1 but used the full eval. Maybe I should give it a
second try. But as I work now 45 hours/week on Computer-Tomography (which is
also quite interesting) and comute each weekend between Germany and Austria
its difficult to do.
the
programm tends to favour lines with captures, if one extends checks
stronger, the program likes to check...
Chrilly
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spiracy approach for scheduling problems.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: "Darren Cook" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 2:18 AM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] The dominance of search (Suzie v. GnuGo)
(R==1). An incorrect pruning
speaking some computer languages, but Lisp is not among them.
I want to present the code in an article for the Austrian AI-Journal (as an
example that mathematical elegance and practically usefull are 2 different
things).
Chrilly
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programming examples. It would
be much more instructive for my article if I could quote these examples.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: "Ron Goldman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Cc: "Chrilly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, Apr
years on do it on the PC. Or a
playstation.
Chrilly
Is there any notion of the Elo rating of a professional Go player. In chess
terms the
- Original Message -
From: "Don Dailey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Sent: Sunday, April 08, 2007 3:05 AM
Thanks Chrilly. For anyone else interested, it is here:
http://www.xilinx.com/publications/xcellonline/xcell_53/xc_pdf/xc_hydra53.pdf
But, as you say, the "the search tree as an adaptable error filter"idea
is only mentioned in passing. I guess I'll just have to wait for Ulf
Lore
there is a defense move and at the
horizon nothing has happened.. But according the mean the programm is still in
some trouble. Or if one reverses the role, Suzie would like to play the
threat-move. This scheme increases therefore even the potential of the programm
to "cheat".
Chril
e it in an sgf-file (and retrieve it later).
Chrilly
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ise it explodes.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 5:23 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] Noise reduction in alpha-beta search
It can't be. He was probably studying the general game, not Go.
t a standard SGF property, but some programs support it.
Ok.
Thanks, Chrilly
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In chess UCI has widely replaced xboard. I think UCI is better than xboard.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: "Joshua Shriver" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2007 4:42 PM
Subject: Re: [computer-go] GTP3 should be UGI
S
If the engine gives no ponder move the GUI does not try anyway. So far the
hit-rate in games between Suzie and Gnu-Go is low and ponder would not gain
very much.
But once the playing level improves the hit-rate goes up and pondering
becomes very important.
Chrilly
- Original Message
be known.
Best Regards
Chrilly
P.S. I am just on a short home-leave and spend my holidays with the GUI
programming. I have become a real hobbyst. The more advanced
departments/managers of Siemens can spell now the name FPGA and everybody
who can write "Hello World" in VHDL is enga
original Czech, Hungarion
and Jiidish words.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: "Nick Wedd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2007 11:20 AM
Subject: [computer-go] Kirtag
Some months ago, someone here (I think it was Chrilly) us
table version deadly.
GameStack-Overflow.
Chrilly
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Os. We do not check for SuperKO in Alpha-Beta. The search is
not
deep enough. Ignoring SuperKO in UCT is for a Hashtable version deadly.
GameStack-Overflow.
Chrilly
So does your hash function consider all previous board states (for
superKo)? If so, how? I can think of one way, but I don
ces in captures this is true. MC-Runs are
also stopped, when one sides leads in Capture by a large margin.
Depending on the margin it produces only a negible bias.
Only for balanced cycles.
The cycles I have found so far are balanced. Each side captures in turn 1
s
game which is stopped by reaching the length-limit?
In UCT-Suzie I stop also when one side has a big material advantage
(captured much more stones). The length limit is related with this, because
when a big group is captured the empty points are afterwards filled up
again.
Ch
layer deviates either on
purpose (like in "bisserl") or because he has learned bad style (e.g. "Fritz
Programmer Frans Morsch").
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: David Fotland
To: 'computer-go'
Sent: Saturday, May 26, 2007 6:55 PM
Subject: RE:
Steenvreter means "StoneEater". If the name is a concept, its interesting.
Sounds like tactics is all.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: "Hideki Kato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "computer-go"
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 5:20 AM
Subject: Re: [compu
t
2 professorships.
Chrilly
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es in a give position and dieces deterministic. But
the roll of the dices generates sufficient randomnes.
Chrilly
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han conventional software development. Just trying out
things is not possible. We felt also, that even if it works, the improvement
measured in Elos would not be very spectacular. The Elo/Effort ratio is low.
I was simply too lazy (or too professional) to
s for the translation. The only point I am still missing: What is
RAVE(AMAF)?
Chrilly
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interesting.
Chrilly
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Thanks,
I asked for the source, mostly because I expect to learn something from
you.
And you will be disappointed. Its plain vanilla and sometimes even ugly.
Chrilly
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the rollouts at the root. This is a variant
of UCT. Exactly its the multiarmed-bandit selection rule.
It differs e.g from the rule proposed by Epstein.
Chrilly
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wrote an article "The concepts of AI are bullshit?" Feng Hsu was the first one
who did this. He was proud enough about his work.
Chrilly
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ad nowadays MIX. MIX does also not reveflect the
capabilities of modern hardware. Knuth has therefore to rewrite his books in
MMIX (Inschallah). Maybe pseudo-Algol would have been more "ethernal" than
MIX.
But in any case he uses dif
Thanks, the dictionary is really great.
Chrilly
- Original Message -
From: David Silver
To: computer-go@computer-go.org
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2007 11:29 PM
Subject: [computer-go] Re: Explanation to MoGo paper wanted. (BackGammonCode)
> It's because Go is not o
y enough, you
always get one. But his testing was certainly a significant contribution to
the development of Rebel. And it was a very good medicine for Jan. He would
have died much earlier without this testing.
Chrilly
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comp
book
much too less (I am used to have the CB-Megabase).
Is there a larger collection with at least >= 5 Amateur Dan Level available?
If the price is reasonable, I am willing to pay for a professionally made
collection.
Chrilly
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ChessBase? Or does it exist and we
are living in a completly other Go-world?
Chrilly
P.S.: I do not want to offend anyone in this list. Everybody here does his
best. I am just feed up with the things as they are.
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c
ritizing this aspect.
Chrilly
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programms, because the size of opening theory
has become a nightmare. Some opening lines are practically fully analysed
and hence not playable anymore. I know some top players who would like to
ban computers for preperation. But its impossible to check such a ban.
Chrilly
.
, so also
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