dtlogin through vnc

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Ok. I almost have what I set out for.

The operating system is AIX 4.2.1
The UI is AIX CDE and window manager dtwm

dtlogin is started from the inittab

I have added the following line to /etc/dt/config/Xservers:

:1   Local local@none /bin/vncserver :1

The environment variables that are set when vncserver runs (output by
while (($key,$value) = each %ENV) {
print STDERR "$key=$value\n";
}
in vncserver) are:

XTOEXEC=true
VNCDESKTOP=X
HOME=/
LANG=C
LOCPATH=/usr/lib/nls/loc
PATH=/bin:/bin/X11
DISPLAY=ws979:1
ODMDIR=/etc/objrepos

The process listing for Xvnc as started by dtlogin:

root  4578 1   0 16:36:49  -  1:35 Xvnc :1 -desktop X -httpd
/usr/local/vnc/classes -geometry 1024x768 -depth 8 -rfbwait 12 -rfbauth
/.vnc/passwd -rfbport 5901 -fp
/usr/lib/X11/fonts/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/misc/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/75dpi/,/usr/l
ib/X11/fonts/100dpi/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/ibm850/,/usr/lib/X11/fonts/Type1/ -co
/usr/lib/X11/rgb -auth /var/dt/A:1-zNcCM7

The vncviewer connects, I get the login dialog but as far as I can tell there
is absolutely no keyboard definition. When I start vncserver from the command
line, the keyboard works fine but then I'm stuck with just one user who is not
verified by the system and doesn't even have his desktop configuration because
dtlogin calls a set of scripts which gets the information from NIS maps.

Now, what I'm thinking is that IBM's version of the X server for AIX "knows"
all the default places to get things like keyboard definitions and such or,
even more likely, has a complete set of defaults that should work already
built in. Xvnc needs to be told to load something.

Is it correct that xmodmap should be able to do that? When I try to call
xmodmap with a call to system in vncserver, I get the error:

Xlib:  connection to "ws979:1.0" refused by server
Xlib:  Invalid MIT-MAGIC-COOKIE-1 key
1356-203 xmodmap:  Unable to open display:  ws979:1

This is because dtlogin won't release the server for connections until someone
logs in. I could probably monkey with the magic cookie but I'd rather either
be able to pass a parameter to Xvnc, set an environment variable or put the
keyboard file in a path from whence Xvnc would automatically load it.

Can somebody tell me how to get Xvnc to load a keyboard definition before a
user has logged on; before any connections are allowed?

Thanks,
Carlyle.


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Re:

[Carlyle Sutphen]

www.carboncopy.com

That was my tool of choice 15 years ago and they still make a version for
dos.

Carlyle.

>At work I use a DOS based software system that I would like to be able
>to remotely connect to from any WINDOWS machine using the internet.
>
>Currently the DOS system is on a LAN with a WINDOWS system that is
>connected to a DSL.  Could I somehow, using VNC, connect the DOS system
>to my WINDOWS system and use that WINDOWS system as the server?
>
>Or, if VNC would not work for this do you know of any other way to do
>this?
>
>If anyone can help me with this I would greatly appreciate it.  Thanks
>
>John Sullivan
>Denver, Colorado
>U.S.A.
_

Get more from the Web.  FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
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Re: dtlogin through vnc - NEWS FLASH!!!

[Carlyle Sutphen]

I just discovered that, when I activate number lock, *all* the keys on the
numeric keyboard work!

I'm going to change the password to 12345678 and see what happens after that.

Carlyle.


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Re: dtlogin through vnc - please, I need a sane keyboard

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Did everybody read my message on Dec. 1 and think, "Whhaaat?"

If I get this to work, it will be an answer to a lot (well, a few) of the
questions coming in here.

Now I know for certain that Xvnc has the generic US keyboard initialized as a
default in ./Xvnc/programs/Xserver/hw/vnc/kbdptr.c

Unfortunately, the text appearing in response to my key presses have very
little relation to what I type. At least the text is always the same for any
given keys so it's not just random data in uninitialized storage.

Another thing I think I forgot to mention is that the mouse works just fine.

dtlogin is simply another X client. It should be getting events like any other
client.

I cannot debug it since imake fails to make Xvnc's Makefile correctly and I
haven't found the time to find out why.

Thanks to anybody who gives this a second thought.

Carlyle.


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Re: dtlogin through vnc - please, I need a sane keyboard - !!!successful login!!!

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Thank you for answering, Grant.

> At one point in time, older versions of the Xvnc server didn't handle more
> than one symbol (glyph) per key. Are you running the latest Xvnc, 3.3.3r2?

In my original message of Dec. 1, I explained that I can start the server from
the command line and the keyboard works fine.

Is anybody waiting to find out what happened after my news flash, yesterday;
the one where I wrote that the numeric keypad works?

I created a user with numeric name and password. Low and behold, the desktop
gets started and looks just exactly like it should as well as any applications
I have in the startup script. But the keyboard is still screwy. I even added
xmodmap with the corresponding keyboard which runs successfully but the
keyboard is still in the same shape.

Again, this is far superior to starting Xvnc from inetd; first and foremost
because it doesn't require any changes to the server code and secondly because
the server is not bound to one user.

Puzzled but progressing,
Carlyle




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Re: VNC over works over LAN but not Internet

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Hi, Jon,

> Sent: Monday, December 04, 2000 9:56 PM
> Subject: VNC over works over LAN but not Internet
...
> ... one for the LAN and one to connect to my cable modem.
...
> ... when someone tries to connect to VNC over the
> internet it simply doesn't work.  However it does work internally over the
> LAN.

There aren't any messages at all, like connection refused or insuficient
priveledges or no route to host?

Try to use telnet to connect to the vnc port.
telnet your.machine.name 5900
That is, if your display number is :0; for :1 it would be 5901, etc.

Could firewall software be causing your grief?

Good luck,
Carlyle


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Re: Core dump when running vncpasswd

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Hello, Gary,

run

gdb vncpasswd core

and enter

bt

Tell us what it says.

Carlyle.


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Re: Re: WinVNC auth request box

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Agreed, stealing the focus is a bad idea but there are a couple of
applications on NT4 that can display on top without taking the focus. The Task
Manager and Exceed's Virtual Desktop are just two but I've seen others.



Date:  07.12.2000 17:03
To:<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Re: WinVNC auth request box
Message text:

Not really - you still might click on the buttons, or just type for a while
before noticing the window and thus lose data.

In general, stealing the focus from other apps is a bad idea!

I'm tinkering with a SafeSetForegroundWindow that attempts to mimic the
Win98/Win200 behaviour under Win95/WinNT4.  If it works then it'll appear in
the next release.

Cheers,

James "Wez" Weatherall
--
  "The path to enlightenment is /usr/bin/enlightenment"
Laboratory for Communications Engineering, Cambridge - Tel : 766513
AT&T Labs Cambridge, UK  - Tel : 343000

- Original Message -
From: "Jim Lynch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 2:16 PM
Subject: Re: WinVNC auth request box


> I think it is possible to remove the default behavior entirely so the
> user would be required to press either button to remove the window.  I
> like the idea of moving it to the top.
>
> "W. Brian Blevins" wrote:
> >
> > Ron,
> >
> > > Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2000 12:44:38 -0500
> > > From: "Ron Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Subject: WinVNC auth request box
> > >
> > > 3.3.3r7 WinVNC, when using AuthHosts '?' setting, the dialog box that
> > > pops up requesting authorization on incomming connection   does not
> > > pop up on top of any window already visible.  Shouldn't it be set 'on
top'?
> > >
> > > The only indication that it is there is if the user sees it on his
taskbar, or
> > > if he does not have any other window up on the screen.
> >
> > As I understand it, this is a difficult issue.  Yes, the accept
> > dialog *should* appear on top of other windows in order to interrupt
> > the current user, if any.  However, the flag for this in the Win32
> > API  also forces a change in focus when the dialog is displayed.
> > This means that the user could accidentally accept a connection if
> > the dialog appears while the user happens to be typing the proper
> > keystrokes into a supposedly different application.
> >
> > In TridiaVNC, we are using the same approach as Jeremy Peaks, which
> > is to have the dialog appear on top and take focus.  There are two
> > mitigating factors.  First, there is an audible beep, indicating
> > that the dialog is being displayed.  Second, we have changed the
> > default button to be the reject button.  The idea is that it is
> > better to accidentally reject a connection than to accidentally
> > accept one.
> >
> > I would like to know what others think about this issue.  Is there
> > a way to force the dialog to the top of the stacking order without
> > changing the focus?  Would it be possible to artificially remove
> > all of the keystrokes on the event queue just before the dialog
> > is displayed?  Would that help?
> >
> > --
> > Brian
>
> --
--
> > TridiaVNC, the cross-platform, open source, remote control solution.
> > http://www.TridiaVNC.com/   and   http://www.developVNC.org/
> > Java VNC Server Demo:
> > http://www.developVNC.org/logged-in/jVNC-info.html
> > -
> > To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list
> > to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> > -
> -
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Re: Sending ScanCodes

[Carlyle Sutphen]

What the client sends are so called glyphs, which are for all practical
purposes in this case, scan codes, which are recieved by the server and
translated according to a KeySym table, into events for the X clients. It's
just a matter of configuring the right KeySyms.



Date:  08.12.2000 14:25
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Sending ScanCodes
Message text:


I want to send Alt+Q to an application from a LINUX vncviewer (VNCviewer
for X).
I tried to find the information for ctrl+alt+del which is more or less
what is needed.
I only found information about customizing the popup window. You can
only send character
keys but not scancodes. Any help or sugestions.
Dieter

--
RechenzentrumComputing Center
Universitaet StuttgartUniversity of Stuttgart
Dieter Raith Dieter Raith
Allmandring 30   Allmandring 30
D-70550 StuttgartD-70550 Stuttgart (Germany)
Tel 0711 685 4516Tel +49 (711) 685 4516
Fax 0711 682 357 Fax +49 (711) 682 357
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Re: VNC server behind firewall - connects and authenticates OK, but no display

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Very interesting.

I have, unfortunately, no experience with NetBSD ipfilter. Could it be acting
differently depending on which side initiates the connection? Try making a
reverse connection. See the "Reverse connections" section at the bottom of
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/xvnc.html.

Another thought; can you run an iptrace on port 5900 on the firewall?


Date:  13.12.2000 03:30
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   VNC server behind firewall - connects and authenticates OK, but
no display
Message text:


Hi all,

I'm having some slightly unusual problems using VNC through a firewall, and
I've searched around for the exact problem in the FAQ and mail archives but
haven't come up with anything.  I'm attempting to use VNC in the following
environment:

 vncviewer on
NT Workstation  Home gateway/firewallHome Windows box
   at work (NetBSD 1.4, ipfilter) WinVNC server
  |  || |
  +-- Internet --++-+
  Home LAN

The NetBSD machine is using ipfilter to redirect incoming connections (i.e.
on
the interface connected to the Net) on port 5900 to port 5900 on the Windows
machine on the LAN at home.

Now, I can run vncviewer fine on hosts on the home LAN, but I have problems
when using vncviewer on my NT Workstation at work.  It connects OK and
authenticates as usual, but doesn't seem to get any display data at all, and
it simply disconnects after a few minutes.  Since VNC only uses one data
port,
I don't see why the connection would work fine to begin with and then
suddenly
stop allowing packets.  From the bit of experimenting I was able to do, it
looks as though client data about mouse movement etc. is getting through to
the server, but no display data is going back the other way.

I also tried using the Solaris VNC viewer on a Sun system at work, and had
the
same problem.  Here's its output (the "Connection reset" line appeared after
a
couple of minutes of apparent inactivity):
<<
VNC server supports protocol version 3.3 (viewer 3.3)
Password:
VNC authentication succeeded
Desktop name "home"
Connected to VNC server, using protocol version 3.3
VNC server default format:
  32 bits per pixel.
  Least significant byte first in each pixel.
  True colour: max red 255 green 255 blue 255, shift red 16 green 8 blue 0
Warning: Cannot convert string "-*-helvetica-bold-r-*-*-16-*-*-*-*-*-*-*" to
type FontStruct
Using default colormap and translating from BGR233.  Pixel format:
  8 bits per pixel.
  True colour: max red 7 green 7 blue 3, shift red 0 green 3 blue 6
Got 225 exact BGR233 colours out of 256
Using 6 existing shared colours
vncviewer: read: Connection reset by peer
>>

BTW, running the VNC server on my work machine and the viewer at home works
fine, in case that's relevant (which I kind of doubt).  Any ideas on what to
do next in the way of troubleshooting?  I figure it's probably something to
do
with my firewall setup (which I can freely change).

Thanks in advance,
Chris Edwards
--
"Nondeterminism means never having to say you are wrong."
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Re: Server documentation?

[Carlyle Sutphen]

It would probably be a good idea to start here: http://www.xfree86.org/


Date:  12.12.2000 23:11
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Server documentation?
Message text:


I'm looking for some documentation for the Win32 VNC Server code. I'm
going to be modifying it; and it would be helpful to know the order of
operations of the server (i.e., is the server started upon calling the
constructor? During socketConnect()? Somewhere else?), as well as just
in general how the code fits together. There was no explicit
documentation included in the distribution of the software, nor on
AT&T's website or sourceforge. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Laurel

[demime 0.97b removed an attachment of type text/x-vcard which had a name of
laurel.vcf]
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Re: RE: SOURCE CODE

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Now there's really no call for that! You may not have seen the preceeding two
answers to his question but there is no call to be so rude. That's one of the
nice things about this list is that the responders are generally polite, if
not outright friendly.

If you can't give advice without being insulting and condecending then it
would be better to just ignore posts you feel a need to respond to in such a
tone.

Did you notice his probable nationality? Did you notice a non-English taint to
his phraseology? Is it not a possibility that he had not yet even been to the
site? Why make assumptions on where he found the list address? Maybe he read
it in an Indian magazine or on an Indian website.

It is not good behavior to berate someone new based on one isolated
statement.

To the list: excuse me for raving. I myself have been the brunt of such
uncalled for bashing before and had to vent. I'll get off my soapbox now.
Thank you for being there to help with all things vnc.



Date:  13.12.2000 12:38
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   RE: SOURCE CODE
Message text:


I'm sorry, but how lazy are you? If you'd spent 20 seconds looking at
the website you'd have found it for your self. Anyhow look at

  http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/download.html

And select the radio button for "Windows sources" or the sources for
which ever platform you are interested in.

Kieran

> -Original Message-
> From:   Praveen Kumar Kalapatapu [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent:   Wednesday, December 13, 2000 10:00 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: SOURCE CODE
>
> For doing my educational project I want to study source code of vnc
> where
> to get it and how to get it?
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Re: FRENCH LANGUAGE

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Good question. That depends on your operating system.

If you are using the unix version, you're in luck. I haven't seen a ready to
use list of resources to put into an .Xdefaults file but the widget hierarchy
for the X vncviewer is listed in the documentation on the site.

Under windows, it looks like you have to edit vncviewer.rc and remake the
viewer. According to our support guys, multi-language capabilities are
supposed to be in Windows 2000. I'm afraid I couldn't tell you how that would
work, though.

Either way, once you've done the work, I'm sure it would be greatly
appreciated and a welcome addition to either package and/or the contributions
page.



Date:  14.12.2000 10:56
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   FRENCH LANGUAGE
Message text:


How to have the GUI interface in french for VNC server and client
Thanks
(Embedded image moved to file: pic10403.gif)

[demime 0.97b removed an attachment of type image/gif which had a name of
pic10403.gif]
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Re: Re: Server documentation?

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Excuse me for assuming you were refering to the unix version.

I haven't developed under Windows for a long time (ver. 3.2 ;-) ) but I
would be willing to bet that a lot of your questions could be answered by
loading it into Microsoft Developer Studio and poking around.


Date:  13.12.2000 18:34
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Re: Server documentation?
Message text:


Carlyle Sutphen wrote:
>
> It would probably be a good idea to start here: http://www.xfree86.org/

Sorry, perhaps my question wasn't clear.

I'm working with Server.cpp, which is part of AT&T's Win32 VNC 3.3.3
source code release. I would like to know how, within the code, the
server itself is started. How the server works with respect to the
clients (i.e., is the server a dormant process until AddClient() is
called?). Which method it is that actually "starts" the server (the
constructor?). What the socket methods actually do. There are a few
comments here and there within the code, but nothing very descriptive.

Is there additional documentation available, or perhaps one of the
developers can answer my question?

Thanks,
Laurel



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Re: Conection to client machine with VNC

[Carlyle Sutphen]

DHCP can be so configured so that DNS is notified and you can connect using
the machine name rather than the dynamically assigned dotted decimal address.
Unfortunately, firewalls do not generally propogate dns information outside.
If you can configure a domain name server that has access to the DNS inside
the firewall, then you can use the machine name.


Date:  13.12.2000 16:49
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Conection to client machine with VNC
Message text:


Hello,
I would like to have access a computer with VNC that is underneath of one
proxy, or either, through the IP of the computer with proxy server I obtain
to connect, however some computer that is connected the Internet through the
connection of this proxy I do not know how to make to have access it,
therefore when vnc is waiting that some connects it, it supplies the IP that
server DHCP supplied to it, that he is the only one that it makes use for
connection.

Marcio
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: vnc in w2000 behind router and zonealarm

[carlyle . sutphen]

While you're waiting for somebody more knowledgeable to give a more specific answer, 
try entering something like

configure near port* and zonealarm

into alta-vista's advanced search.



Date:  14.12.2000 13:48
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   vnc in w2000 behind router and zonealarm
Message text:



im sure this has been discussed to death, but i havent found an explicit
reference in a quick scan...

i want to access my machines remotely over the net.  they all run w2000
or w98se.  they all use a netgear rt311 router to share a cable modem
and they all run zonealarm.

i know that i have to open 58xx or 59xx in the router setup and may also
have to enable ZA to accept certain incoming requests.

can someone please direct me to a thread to search for in deja or an
online reference as to how to do this?
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Re: Tight Encoder + Win2k -> no connect before Logon

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Excuse me, I haven't even seen win2k, yet. I use nt4 at work.

Isn't it possible to install services that run even when noone is logged in
like it is on nt?



Date:  14.12.2000 16:13
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Tight Encoder + Win2k -> no connect before Logon
Message text:


Hi,

what I found out now, is that one can't connect to a Win2k Machine when
there's noone logged on. I guess this is not a fault of the tight encoder
version, but a generic VNC problem? Could anyone clarify this?

Lars

--
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Projektleitung Tivoli
visit WARKRAFT @ http://www.mp3.com/warkraft
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Re: RE: running 2 servers?

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Ok, now that makes sense.

I'm a Unix guy who only uses NT at work because that's the company's strategic
choice. You know how that goes ;-)

Anyway, it is theoretically possible if the service is renamed. Somebody who
knows what to change and if the package has to be recompiled or if some tool
exists which can do this.

But that would only have the practical application you mention of being able
to make a side by side visual comparison of how the two services react to one
and the same action.

I'm sure it goes without saying that it is still necessary to use a terminal
server for multiple logins.



Date:  15.12.2000 09:49
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   RE: running 2 servers?
Message text:


> But you can run WinVNC in shared mode which will use the same
> display and
> port but allow multiple connections.
> Simon.

I know that, my intention was having run two different versions, like one
with and one without compression. Just for comparison.

Lars


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Re: Div bug-reports.

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Hi.

It looks like I'm working on #67409.

Unfortunately there isn't a lot of information in the bug report or am I
missing something.

In my case, it is obviously a problem on the server side, not with the viewer
and is closely related to the CDE user configuration scripts. I may get around
to looking at it again today. It might be that a socket connection is missing
when the server is started by dtlogin at system boot.

I am definitely planning on postin what I find here when I know what it is,
whether I have a solution or not.



Date:  14.12.2000 17:28
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Div bug-reports.
Message text:


Hi

I have some bug-reports. I'm the new maintainer of the vnc-packages in
debian and I'm now about to do something about the harder bugs.

I have previously reported to [EMAIL PROTECTED] but this list is probably
a better place.

The bug reports are at:

http://bugs.debian.org/xvncviewer
http://bugs.debian.org/vncserver

What I want to know is if the bugs are resolved,
if there is a easy fix for it,
or any other information so that I can fix it.

There are some patches there too that probably should be in the
ordinary distribution of vnc.

// Ola

--
 - Ola Lundqvist ---
/  [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bjvrnkdrrsgatan 5 A.11   \
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 ---

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Re: Export DISPLAY Problem

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Fist off, the third one is correct:

export DISPLAY=our.IP.address:1

Now some questions.
Which operating system are you running the vnc server on?
Are you not starting the installer in the browser session? Why "redirect" the
output?
What messages are you getting. Anything like "connection refused by server?"
What happens when you start a simple X client like xterm?


Date:  18.12.2000 00:07
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Export DISPLAY Problem
Message text:


We've loaded VNC, and have it running on our remote Internet server. We've
been able to successfully log in with our password, by pointing the browser
interface to http://our.IP.address:5801.

We're trying to run the Oracle database installer program, but we can't seem
to get the "export DISPLAY" command right. We've tried:
export DISPLAY="our.IP.address:5801"
export DISPLAY="5801"
export DISPLAY="our.IP.address:1"

None of these commands seem to redirect the display output to the VNC
server, so it can then pass the display on to our browser.

We've come to a dead halt with our Oracle installation as a result, so any
suggestions would be gratefully accepted!

MTIA, Max Hugen

Hugen Enterprises Pty Ltd
207 Flood St, Leichhardt NSW 2040, Australia
Tel: 02 9560 3061
www.hugen.com.au
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Re: Sources.

[Carlyle Sutphen]

You seem to be refering to this.

$ ls -1 ./vnc_unixsrc/classes
DesCipher.class
animatedMemoryImageSource.class
authenticationPanel.class
clipboardFrame.class
index.vnc
optionsFrame.class
rfbProto.class
shared.vnc
vncCanvas.class
vncviewer.class
vncviewer.jar

True?



Date:  19.12.2000 10:53
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Sources.
Message text:


Hi

I asked some days ago about sources, and my question was probably not that
clear.

So, is there anyone who knows where I can find the sources for the
java-classes
that are transported from the server to the viewer when connecting via http?

Is there anyone who knows why they are not distributed with the rest of the
sources (have just checked the unix tar.gz package)?

Are they not GPL:ed, or?

I ask this because I need them to let the vncserver be in the main part
of the debian distribution. Else I have to remove all server classes...

Is there anyone who knows if the server will crash if I just remove them,
or will the program not compile?

// Ola

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Re: Re: Sources.

[Carlyle Sutphen]

>> There is are two lists of packages, "binary" and "other" on the VNC
>> download page.  All of the source packages are listed under "other".
>> You can find the Java source package 2nd from the bottom.
>>
>> Cheers,
> Thanx a lot! I thought that was some java client sources. :)
That's exactly what it is, the java version of the vncviewer (client) which,
as you wrote in your original request, gets sent to the browser :)



Date:  19.12.2000 14:28
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Re: Sources.
Message text:


On Tue, Dec 19, 2000 at 07:38:36AM -0500, Jared Smolens wrote:
> Excerpts from VNC: 19-Dec-100 Re: Sources. by Ola [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Yes.
>
> There is are two lists of packages, "binary" and "other" on the VNC
> download page.  All of the source packages are listed under "other".
> You can find the Java source package 2nd from the bottom.
>
> Cheers,
Thanx a lot! I thought that was some java client sources. :)

// Ola

--
 - Ola Lundqvist ---
/  [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bjvrnkdrrsgatan 5 A.11   \
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Re: RE: Problems with Compiling Xvnc

[Carlyle Sutphen]

It should be made during the make World run.

Did you abbreviate your output from make? I get:

snip-

Building Release 6.3 of the X Window System.

I hope you checked the configuration parameters in ./config/cf
to see if you need to pass BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS.

Wed Nov  1 13:17:26 MEZ 2000

cd ./config/imake && make  -f Makefile.ini BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS="" clean
snip-


Looking at the Makefile, it seems it is created in the target section
imake.bootstrap:

My guess is that you need to set BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS.



Date:  19.12.2000 23:09
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   RE: Problems with Compiling Xvnc
Message text:


Jeff,

   Thanks but that still didn't work: Look below:

make World MAKE=/opt/app/pkg/gnu/bin/make
/opt/app/pkg/gnu/bin/make  -f xmakefile  all
make: xmakefile: No such file or directory
make: *** No rule to make target `xmakefile'.  Stop.
*** Error code 2
make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `World'
# /opt/app/pkg/gnu/bin/make -v
GNU Make version 3.78.1, by Richard Stallman and Roland McGrath.
Built for sparc-sun-solaris2.6
Copyright (C) 1988, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99
Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Report bugs to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.

The problem is that is can't find xmakefile. So where the heck is it?

Phillip

-Original Message-
From: jeff whitaker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 12:11 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Problems with Compiling Xvnc


--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Bruce, Phillip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
>I'm trying to compile the Xvnc and get the following:
>
> # make World
> /usr/ccs/bin/make  -f xmakefile  all
> make: Fatal error: Can't find `xmakefile': No such file or directory
> Current working directory /usr/local/software/VNC/vnc_unixsrc/Xvnc
> *** Error code 1
> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `World'
>
> It seems that it can't fine xmakefile in this script. Where is this
> xmakefile at?
>
> This is on Solaris 2.65/98 release.
>
>
>


You must gnu make on Solaris.  On my system,

make World MAKE=/usr/local/bin/make

does the trick.

-Jeff
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Xvnc running from dtlogin has screwy keyboard; NEW NEWS!!!

[Carlyle Sutphen]

To summarize my past posts so you guys don't have to go combing the archives
...

When I start Xvnc from the command line, the keyboard works fine. This method
has two large drawbacks for us.

First, the user is not being validated by the system, which leads to the
second problem.

Second, the user's configuration is not being drawn from NIS (we have free
seating/roaming users), which is to say, the configuration scripts which set
up the desktop for the user are not called. That is done by dtlogin after user
validation.

What I have done is to add the following line to /etc/dt/config/Xservers

:1   Local local@none /usr/local/bin/vncserver :1

I had to modify the vncserver perl script ...

1) ... so that it contains the proper environment variables (not even PATH was
set, so uname couldn't be found in SanityCheck)
2) ... to catch SIGHUP and SIGTERM. This is the minimum to catch and pass on
to Xvnc.
3) ... to hang in a loop until the process id which I read from $pidFile
disappears.

(I would be glad to pass this script on to anybody who wants to play with
this.)

This results in the vncviewer getting the login dialog from dtlogin.

BUT ... the keyboard is useless. Even the alternate key returns a character.
Some keys return two characters. Some keys are dead. There seems to be no
logical relation except that the key presses always return the same values.
This behavior is identical whether I use a Digital keyboard, a Sun keyboard, a
Windows keyboard or an AIX keyboard.

The mouse works fine.

Attempting to use xmodmap in the vncserver perl script results in an authority
denial.

I coincidentally discovered that I could enter digits with the numeric keypad
so I created a user with the id 123 and the password 123. Using the mouse to
confirm, I successfully log in as user 123 and the desktop setup looked 100%
correct. All wigits, colors, icons, etc. were exactly as they should be.

BUT ... the keyboard is useless. Typing in an xterm gives the same results as
in the dtlogin dialog.

Attempting to use xmodmap in the user's profile produces no error but changes
nothing. Here are the xmodmap commands.

/usr/bin/X11/xmodmap /usr/lpp/X11/defaults/xmodmap/de_DE/keyboard
/usr/bin/X11/xmodmap -pk -pm -pp

If anybody wants the output from the second command, let me know, I don't know
if there are any problems indicated in it.

I grew hopeful when I discovered "Socket not connected" errors in
$HOME/.dt/startlog. I traced the errors to their sources and became none the
wiser since the commands producing the errors seemed to have nothing to do
with the keyboard setup. I then logged in on the console and, although the
keyboard was perfectly usable, I found those "Socket not connected" errors in
$HOME/.dt/startlog again.

Now here is the NEWS!!!

I found some CLOSE_WAIT states in the output from netstat. The local port was
1024 which concerned me since a Windows trojan named NetSpy uses that port.

So I used lsof to find out who's on that socket. What'd I find? (If you don't
use Lotus Notes you might have to change the following text block to a fixed
font.)

2:root@ws979:/usr/local/bin # ./lsof -i :1024
lsof: WARNING: compiled for AIX version 4.1.5.0; this is 4.2.1.0.
COMMAND PIDUSER   FD   TYPE DEVICE SIZE/OFF NODE NAME
dtlogin2668root7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)
perl   3062root7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)
dtgreet4164root7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)
dtwm   5522 esotest7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)
X 14006root7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)
Xvnc  20230root7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)
dtlogin   20504root7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)
dtfile20884 esotest7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)
aixims21088 esotest7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)
dtsession 21934 esotest7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)
ttsession 22914 esotest7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)
dtlogin   24254root7u  inet 0x01e7ba00  0t0  TCP *:1024 (LISTEN)

Ok, now, finally, the big question: who knows exactly what this port is
used for? Why does lsof think that even the vncserver perl script is listening
to it?

I would appreciate anybody's tips, pointers, comments and questions.

Carlyle Sutphen


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Re: RE: Problems with Compiling Xvnc

[Carlyle Sutphen]

I have ideas. I almost have it working. Please read my post titled
Xvnc running from dtlogin has screwy keyboard; NEW NEWS!!!
It outlines all steps I've taken so far to get the login. Unfortunately,
noone has been able to help me with my last hurdle. Not even IBM!!!



Date:  20.12.2000 23:24
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   RE: Problems with Compiling Xvnc
Message text:


Joe,

  That correct. Thanks for telling me what your using.
  I didn't have the luxury of building the make on this
  system. Now that I now what works and what doesn't.

  Any idea on my CDE loggin screen problem.

Phillip

-Original Message-
From: Joseph A. Knapka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 1:47 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Problems with Compiling Xvnc


So you are saying that the compile fails with v 3.78.1 of
Gnu make? I am using 3.79 and it works fine.

-- Joe

"Bruce, Phillip" wrote:
>
> Joe,
>
> You spot on. But for those that need to know.
> When compiled with this version of Make:
>
> # make -v
> GNU Make version 3.78.1, by Richard Stallman and Roland McGrath.
> Built for sparc-sun-solaris2.6
> Copyright (C) 1988, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99
> Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
> There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
> PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
>
> Report bugs to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
>
> It failed. So I did the Sun standard Make and it compiled EXTREMELY Clean.
> So you guys figure out why this doesn't work with GNU make.
>
> But I got it compiled and installed even works with the JAVA
implementation.
> Not Bad.
>
> Now, I've only got one problem left.
>
> The last problem is that I'm still running in CDE environment. It comes up
> ok.
> But it doesn't go thru the loggin screen first. It goes straight as if you
> were
> already logged in. This true with the JAVA implementation as well.
>
> Any ideas on this?
>
> Phillip
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Joseph A. Knapka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 10:20 AM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Problems with Compiling Xvnc
>
> It looks as if Phillip ran "xmkmf" before running
> "make World". On my Linux box that results in
> exactly the problem described. You need to just
> unpack the tarball and do
> "cd vnc_unixsrc/Xvnc ; make World"
>
> -- Joe

-- Joe Knapka
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Re: RE: Problems with Compiling Xvnc

[Carlyle Sutphen]

When I use -query localhost Xvnc just ends and the log file looks fine; no
reason for quitting.

I think AIX is doing something unusual. I've begun some testing on Solaris and
I don't have the same problems as with AIX.

I'll eventually find out what's up.


Date:  21.12.2000 07:36
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   RE: Problems with Compiling Xvnc
Message text:


Yes,
try to use the -query localhost option, it will give you the dtlogin screen
(put it in vncserver or use your own script to run Xvnc).

Steve Palocz

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Bruce, Phillip
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 3:35 PM
To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject: RE: Problems with Compiling Xvnc


Joe,

You spot on. But for those that need to know.
When compiled with this version of Make:

# make -v
GNU Make version 3.78.1, by Richard Stallman and Roland McGrath.
Built for sparc-sun-solaris2.6
Copyright (C) 1988, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99
Free Software Foundation, Inc.
This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
PARTICULAR PURPOSE.

Report bugs to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.

It failed. So I did the Sun standard Make and it compiled EXTREMELY Clean.
So you guys figure out why this doesn't work with GNU make.

But I got it compiled and installed even works with the JAVA implementation.
Not Bad.

Now, I've only got one problem left.

The last problem is that I'm still running in CDE environment. It comes up
ok.
But it doesn't go thru the loggin screen first. It goes straight as if you
were
already logged in. This true with the JAVA implementation as well.

Any ideas on this?

Phillip



-Original Message-
From: Joseph A. Knapka [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2000 10:20 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Problems with Compiling Xvnc


It looks as if Phillip ran "xmkmf" before running
"make World". On my Linux box that results in
exactly the problem described. You need to just
unpack the tarball and do
"cd vnc_unixsrc/Xvnc ; make World"

-- Joe

Carlyle Sutphen wrote:
>
> It should be made during the make World run.
>
> Did you abbreviate your output from make? I get:
>
>
snip
-
> 
> Building Release 6.3 of the X Window System.
>
> I hope you checked the configuration parameters in ./config/cf
> to see if you need to pass BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS.
>
> Wed Nov  1 13:17:26 MEZ 2000
>
> cd ./config/imake && make  -f Makefile.ini BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS=""
clean
>
snip
-
> 
>
> Looking at the Makefile, it seems it is created in the target section
> imake.bootstrap:
>
> My guess is that you need to set BOOTSTRAPCFLAGS.
>
> Date:  19.12.2000 23:09
> To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Subject:   RE: Problems with Compiling Xvnc
> Message text:
>
> Jeff,
>
>Thanks but that still didn't work: Look below:
>
> make World MAKE=/opt/app/pkg/gnu/bin/make
> /opt/app/pkg/gnu/bin/make  -f xmakefile  all
> make: xmakefile: No such file or directory
> make: *** No rule to make target `xmakefile'.  Stop.
> *** Error code 2
> make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `World'
> # /opt/app/pkg/gnu/bin/make -v
> GNU Make version 3.78.1, by Richard Stallman and Roland McGrath.
> Built for sparc-sun-solaris2.6
> Copyright (C) 1988, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99
> Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> This is free software; see the source for copying conditions.
> There is NO warranty; not even for MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A
> PARTICULAR PURPOSE.
>
> Report bugs to <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
>
> The problem is that is can't find xmakefile. So where the heck is it?
>
> Phillip
>
> -Original Message-
> From: jeff whitaker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2000 12:11 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: Problems with Compiling Xvnc
>
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Bruce, Phillip" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> >I'm trying to compile the Xvnc and get the following:
> >
> > # make World
> > /usr/ccs/bin/make  -f xmakefile  all
> > make: Fatal error: Can't find `xmakefile': No such file or directory
> > Current working directory /usr/local/software/VNC/vnc_unixsrc/Xvnc
> > *** Error code 1
> > make: Fatal error: Command failed for target `World

Re: where can I found ... your answer is here with a statement to all newcomers.

[Carlyle Sutphen]

I would respectfully  like to ask all people to read the FAQ and the
documentation before posting to the list. This is happening more and more
often lately on many topics. Many of us are working hard on making VNC into
the best of its kind and 1) don't have time to hold the hands of newcomers who
haven't RTFM and 2) need this list to get help on topics that is not only not
documented but is brand new territory.

Here is a pointer into the FAQ answering your question.
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/faq.html#q45

(Wow, what an overkill on that trailer! !!I thought ours was bad. That is just
too too much. Please inform your mail team. I am working with mine on
konceptualizing an optional message to be used only in mails of buisiness
nature where the message applies.)



Date:  22.12.2000 08:37
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   where can I found ...
Message text:


Where can I find vnc server with no icon on task bar for windows NT4.
Very thanks for your help.

Best regards Stephane



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Re: vncserver configuration - Not just for Jean-Marie and Dale! Attn: developers!

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Hello Jean-Marie!

Your explaination, in my opinion, is excelent. Nothing speaks
more clearly than experience. The documentation

http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/xvnc.html

is actually very clear. But, as you wrote, may not be so clear to
someone who is not familiar with the workings of X on Unix.

It might be helpful for those who haven't completely visualized
the result of running multiple X servers on Unix, to add a small
phrase to the documentation.

Original: "In this case it will choose the first available display number,
start Xvnc as that display and run a couple of basic
applications to get you started."

"In this case it will choose the first available display number,
start Xvnc as that display, a completely separate display from all other
existing virtual or physical displays, and run a couple of basic
applications to get you started."

Dale Westby wrote:
> The Solaris server is running Openwindows (CDE version 1.2) and that is the
> part I don't  understand. Is VNC basically for use with a headless server
> that isn't running a window manager or does it coexist with the window
> manager that is already in place. I only ask this because I think the
> vncserver script tries to launch a window manager.
Yes, it can be used to serve a headless system. Also, you can have as many X
servers and
window managers running as your system can support.

> When I connect to the server via a browser or vncviewer, I only see a black
> screen where I expect to see the desktop.

This sounds like your vncserver script is not creating the $HOME/.vnc/xstartup
script, which contains
a couple of basic commands.

As many on this list surely know, I am trying to get Xvnc to startup under the
control of dtlogin (CDE).
I am still having keyboard problems on AIX but succeded in getting it to run,
display the dtgreeting
(login) dialog, *accept a login* and startup a new desktop. This was, by the
way, on a consoleless
machine!!!

If you want to let Xvnc have some semblance of the WinVNC behaviour, this is
the way to do it. Get
rid of the console, start Xvnc as display :0 and only use that box remotely!

Of course, I had to edit the perl script quite a bit to get it to work. It
sould be cleaned up and either
parameterized so it can be used in either scenario or provided separately as a
vncCDEserver
script.

Anybody interested in this CDE vncserver script for Solaris, let me know. I
would be glad to mail
it. Maybe it should be added to the distribution?

Regards,

Carlyle.


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Re: VNC

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Wie meinst Du das?
Do you mean the menus on the viewer?
VNC has yet to be subjected to internationalization.
What OS's do you use? F|r welche Betriebsysteme?

On X you can edit .Xdefaults. A list of the widget hierarchy is at the bottom
of:
http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/xvncviewer.html

On windows:

Kieran Coughlan ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
on Thu Dec 14 2000 - 12:26:36 GMT wrote in RE: FRENCH LANGUAGE:
> All you need is a copy of Visual Studio running under Windows NT, open
> the exe files as resources, modify all text into French and save.



Date:  22.12.2000 10:58
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   VNC
Message text:


Hallo zusammen!
Ein sehr gutes Programm, das VNC!

Gibt es davon auch eine deutsche Version?

Have you e GERMAN Version? (Yes please!)


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Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion

[Carlyle Sutphen]

If there is agreement on this, there would have to be an ettiquette file next
to the FAQ file file
to inform  newcomers of the local customs (I deliberately avoided the words
laws and rules!).

The suse linux mailing lists do this, at here in Germany and I was only
actuall in the isdn list.

P.S. I always cut the signatures and postscripts off the bottom when I quote
whole messages below,
known on many lists as RAWQB; reply above, whole quote below.

Carlyle



Date:  22.12.2000 14:17
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion
Message text:


Hi all

Though I am a newcomer I know that some suggestions have already been
done on how to reduce amount of messages on the list i.e. create
different lists concerning differents aspects of VNC.

Maybe I have a small simple suggestion concerning the way we handle
technical questions :
Once a question is launched , the rule could be to respond privately
to the person who has a problem until he has solved it.
 Ask him to summarise once he has got his problem solved : to do so
he sends a mail to the entire list with the header "summary" i.e.
"summary : how to compile VNC "
This is very usual in forums.
This could be a duty for the people who has got a successful
response to her/his problem  to summarize clearly the solution and so to
build a kind of "how to..." database which could avoid som many
redundant questions/responses
It's also a way to contribute in an useful way : even if not a
developer .

And also it is of a great help to search in the FAQ all the mail
headers beginning with the "summary" keyword because we know that it
contains a working and explained solution...

I apologize if this mail creates also noise on the list


--
Jean-Marie Theis


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Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Surely you have a "reply to all" option? Use that, delete the list's address
and copy the sender's address to the primary recipient field. Why is that a
huge pain?

And I find that feature very convneient, that replies default to the list.
Even when I write a new messgae, I generally reply to an old mail and change
the subject to suit my message.



Date:  22.12.2000 18:02
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion
Message text:


Jean-Marie Theis wrote:
>
> Maybe I have a small simple suggestion concerning the way we handle
> technical questions :
> Once a question is launched , the rule could be to respond privately
> to the person who has a problem until he has solved it.

This is a good idea, but it is very inconvenient due to
the (IMO) evil Reply-To header inserted into all vnc-list
messages, that forces all replies to go to the list. If
you have something to say that is not of general interest
or relevance, it is a huge pain to send it only to the
author of the message.

-- Joe Knapka
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Re: Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion

[Carlyle Sutphen]

I think you misunderstood. The private mail is meant to keep the investigation
out of the list. Whenever any new knowledge surfaces, they should, of course,
be posted to the list as well as the final solution. The private mails need
not be one-on-one. They should be addressed to all who are showing an interest
in solving the problem.



Date:  22.12.2000 18:26
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion
Message text:


Just a suggestion - answering only the person who raised the question keeps
others who may well have the same problem now or in the near future from
seeing the answer. That ends up making more work for the more knowledgeable
and helpful members of the list. I hope you won't choose the private
conversations approach for such issues...

Lee Douglas

At 09:48 AM 12/22/00 -0700, you wrote:
>Jean-Marie Theis wrote:
> >
> > Maybe I have a small simple suggestion concerning the way we handle
> > technical questions :
> > Once a question is launched , the rule could be to respond privately
> > to the person who has a problem until he has solved it.
>
>This is a good idea, but it is very inconvenient due to
>the (IMO) evil Reply-To header inserted into all vnc-list
>messages, that forces all replies to go to the list. If
>you have something to say that is not of general interest
>or relevance, it is a huge pain to send it only to the
>author of the message.
>
>-- Joe Knapka
>-
>To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list
>to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html
>-


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Lee Douglas, Principal
Phil Ellis Associates, Inc.
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Re: RE: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion

[Carlyle Sutphen]

No, no, discussion is good along the lines of "what is better A or B", "well I
like A better because ..." and "B does it for me because..."

It's the clarifications and "try this, if it doesn't work, try that" that the
list can do without. Once the question has been sufficiently clairified, this
could be announced to the list.



Date:  22.12.2000 22:16
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   RE: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion
Message text:


I couldn't disagree more.  I, among many others, benefit much from hearing
answers to others questions.  If your aim is to lessen the posts, think
about the gain of posts inquiring about a problem that was never discussed
in the list, but privately.  The beauty of lists like this is the discussion
factor. In fact, when the idea was devised, they where often referred to as
discussion lists as opposed to the now popular "mailing list".  To shun
technical discussion on a technical mailing list is, IMHO, a conflict of
interests.

Thanks,
Steve Bostedor

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Joseph A. Knapka
Sent: Friday, December 22, 2000 11:48 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion


Jean-Marie Theis wrote:
>
> Maybe I have a small simple suggestion concerning the way we handle
> technical questions :
> Once a question is launched , the rule could be to respond privately
> to the person who has a problem until he has solved it.

This is a good idea, but it is very inconvenient due to
the (IMO) evil Reply-To header inserted into all vnc-list
messages, that forces all replies to go to the list. If
you have something to say that is not of general interest
or relevance, it is a huge pain to send it only to the
author of the message.

-- Joe Knapka
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to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-
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Re: Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion

[Carlyle Sutphen]

I can't understand why some people insist on not discussing the entire
content. It has been mentioned a number of times that if that scheme is to
work and if the list is to serve it's intended puprpose to serve as a
reference even for those who didn't ask a question, it is of utmost importance
that not only the solution is posted BUT ALSO INTERMEDIATE STEPS such as the
discovery of a system parameter that changes the behavior or a partial
success.

Occasional summaries would also be useful, in which the attempts so far and
any relevant results are presented to the community. That would serve the
discussion of the problem and the search for a solution immensely.



Date:  02.01.2001 11:49
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion
Message text:


Excerpts from vnc: 22-Dec-100 Re: Noise on the vnc-list :.. by Lee
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Just a suggestion - answering only the person who raised the question keeps
> others who may well have the same problem now or in the near future from
> seeing the answer. That ends up making more work for the more knowledgeable
> and helpful members of the list. I hope you won't choose the private
> conversations approach for such issues...

Agreed, and makes scanning the list archive much less useful, since only
the questions will be there and not the answers.

-jny
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Re: Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion

[Carlyle Sutphen]

Let's not appoint anybody. Let anybody answer RTFM who feels the need; just do
it in a private mail. If they get several such mails, they'll either get the
message or leave the list in a huff.



Date:  22.12.2000 22:10
To:[EMAIL PROTECTED]




Reply to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Subject:   Re: Noise on the vnc-list : suggestion
Message text:


Possibly we could elect one or two non-VNC-core-developer list
regulars as the "official silly-question answerers and
FAQ-pointer-outers" on a rotating basis; then Wez et al could
just ignore that stuff. That would also reduce traffic by
eliminating multiple replies the the same silly questions.
I would be willing to fill that role for a time if necessary.

Alternatively, possibly a "vnc-help" list is in order.

-- Joe Knapka

Noel Holshouser wrote:
>
> Jean-Marie's concept is good, but I believe the practical outcome would
> be very unsatisfactory.  If we can't get people to read FAQ's and search
> archives before they ask questions that have been answered numerous
> times, how can we expect everyone to encapsulate answers and repost to
> the list.  I'm sure that Wez, Jonathan Morton, et al. who answer these
> irritating questions certainly would appreciate a keystroke that auto
> generated a RTFM or check the FAQ and search the the archives reply, as
> would those of us who have seen these repetitious questions and
> replies.  I sometimes wonder at their patience and the lack of
> consideration of others.  In that vein, I for one would appreciate
> everyone turning off their auto replies to all lists when they elect to
> vacate the premises.  I don't care where they went or how long they'll
> be gone.  I just hope we don't have to hear about it everyday until they
> return.
> -
> To unsubscribe, send a message with the line: unsubscribe vnc-list
> to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> See also: http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/intouch.html
> -

-- Joe Knapka
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