Re: [RE-wrenches] Midnite Magnum E-Panel Unofficial Service Bulletin
It is smart to re-check the wiring in almost all 'factory wired' enclosures, no matter who they came from. Definitely check that the connections are tight, too. Especially for battery connections. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: R Ray Walters To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches Sent: Sat, July 24, 2010 10:46:12 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Midnite Magnum E-Panel Unofficial Service Bulletin I usually recommend retorqueing all connectors once the panel is mounted. Whether its an E-panel or one we built at the shop, those washboard roads can loosen stuff that would never have had a problem otherwise. I'm actually surprised we haven't had more problems like this, even with internal wiring on inverters, etc. Hours of vibration can do bad things to equipment not designed for it. Having said all that, I too have grown probably too complacent, and forget to check connections, especially if its hard to get to, and the sun is going down. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jul 24, 2010, at 1:27 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote: Wrenches, >In the past month we have encountered some assembly errors on preassembled >E-Panels using the Magnum MS4448PAE and MS4024AE inverters. Robin Gudgel >has >become aware of the problems and has corrected them, but there may be >other >Wrenches who have installed or plan to install these E-Panels and may be >able to correct the errors at installation. Robin has encouraged me to >post >this here. > >On all three E-Panels the same two problems were found. The first is that >the four signal wires (two twisted pairs) connected to the Magnum ME-BMK >sending unit for the remote display were loose enough to pull out. In one >case this prevented state-of-charge data from being accessible on the >display. The solution is simply to tighten the terminals, but as this is a >preassembled connection, checking tightness could be overlooked. The >second >is that the white 14 awg DC - conductor from the preinstalled array GFDI >is >terminated at the white AC neutral bus. It should be connected to the DC - >bus on the shunt. Moving this will require splicing in a few inches of #14 > >solid white THHN, as the existing conductor is too short, but has a >resistor >lead soldered to it, discouraging just replacing this wire with a longer >piece. > >It's a funny thing - it's easy to overlook these errors because we expect >the factory wiring to be correct. I missed these two errors, and so did an >experienced installer from our Taos branch who crewed with me on one of >the >three installations. It took an inexperienced but very skilled apprentice >on >his first day of his first installation to discover both problems and >bring >them to my attention. I have worked with Eden, the apprentice, on other > >projects, so I trusted him to terminate correctly in the E-Panel. Turns >out >it was his fresh eyes that caught what we had overlooked because we hadn't >expected it. >Allan > >-- > >AllanSindelar >al...@positiveenergysolar.com >NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer >EE98J Journeyman Electrician >Positive Energy, Inc. >3201 Calle Marie >Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 >505 424-1112 >www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail
HI Wrenches: My crew wants to nail all the flashings on our footings, but I am resisting. Do you guys have any strong feelings about that. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Bob-O Schultze To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tue, July 27, 2010 7:04:36 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC Agreed with Dick on this one. First, if you are going the DB route, then you have to get it down at least 24" instead of 18". No problem some places, a HUGE problem others. Then there are the burrowing critters like ground squirrels which love to chew on anything. I have heard that there is something put into the insulation which makes it distasteful, but I sure don't believe it- if true. Bob-O On Jul 27, 2010, at 4:06 AM, Richard L Ratico wrote: The insulation on Al cable rated for direct burial is thick and tough. But, DON'T direct bury it. Carefully pull it into correctly installed PVC conduit. Use marker tape above the conduit, just below grade. If you're in an area that doesn't experience ground frost, MAYBE, VERY CAREFULLY, plant the cable in a generous amount of sand. If you're in an region with frost, ALWAYS use conduit. I think it is false economy to skip the conduit. The sand application is very time consuming. Buried copper wire with nicked insulation may not turn to dust, but is certainly a MAJOR bummer, particularly if it's not in conduit, AND, it's at least 3X the cost of Al. Al, done right, no worries. Dick Ratico Solarwind Electric --- Drake wrote: Aluminum wire got its bad name during the era when it was use in 15 and 20 amp circuits, with #12 and #10 wire. That stuff is a nightmare. As an electrician that has cleaned up some of the messes, I can supply ample horror stories. #2 and larger sizes of AL work fine. It is important to use antioxidant on the connections. Separate copper wire from aluminum using a listed splicing device. Aluminum wire will turn to white powder in an underground cable where the insulation has been breached. This is true for DC or AC. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC
One of our installers put a shovel through a length of romex underground today? Not even direct burial wire! Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Jeff Oldham To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 1:31:16 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] AL wire with DC IMHO one should never ever direct bury ANY class of wire, it can be a very expensive gamble making the cost of your conduit "insurance policy" an absolute bargain. This is one of the DIY'ers #1 mistake in UG wire runs. >From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions Penny Stock Soaring 3000% Sign up for Free to find out what the next 3000% Stock Winner Is! PennyStocksUniverse.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail
What about just applying adhesive. The Cali Building Code says that all roof penetrations must be flashed. Is the nail not a roof penetration? What if it works out over time, like so many other flashings nails do? Then you will have a leak. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 6:33:23 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail Nick We not only use roofing nails at the bottom corners of metal flashing but sealant around the top and side edges of the face down side. It keeps potential water seeping from uphill away from the lag penetration[s]. We also seal around every shingle edge we pull up or trim off around the flashing. In the words of Mark Graham Assoc. Executive Dir of the National Roofing Contractors Assoc emphasized in his presentation at the AEE conference in Feb, anything less "...is installing roof leaks." Yep, it's more work than slapping down L-feet, about 5 minutes per standoff start to finish, but metal flashed standoffs are the only way we'll attach PV on 3-tab asphalt roofs. It's often as time consuming finding the rafters as it is mounting the footings and flashing. my $0.02 [compounded over 20 years] Jim Duncan NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- >From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of NickSoleil >Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:47 PM >To: RE-wrenches >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not tonail > > >HIWrenches: >My crew wants to nail all the flashings on ourfootings, but I am >resisting. Do you guys have any strong feelings aboutthat. > > Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative EnergySolutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell:707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax: 707-769-9037 > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail
OK, even though the solar racking manufacturers do not detail nailing the flashings to the roofs in their installation manuals and on-line videos, Oatey does publish a document which says "One nail or staple in each bottom corner is appropriate." Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: North Texas Renewable Energy Inc To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 6:33:23 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not to nail Nick We not only use roofing nails at the bottom corners of metal flashing but sealant around the top and side edges of the face down side. It keeps potential water seeping from uphill away from the lag penetration[s]. We also seal around every shingle edge we pull up or trim off around the flashing. In the words of Mark Graham Assoc. Executive Dir of the National Roofing Contractors Assoc emphasized in his presentation at the AEE conference in Feb, anything less "...is installing roof leaks." Yep, it's more work than slapping down L-feet, about 5 minutes per standoff start to finish, but metal flashed standoffs are the only way we'll attach PV on 3-tab asphalt roofs. It's often as time consuming finding the rafters as it is mounting the footings and flashing. my $0.02 [compounded over 20 years] Jim Duncan NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer No.31310-57 TECL 27398 North Texas Renewable Energy 486 W.N. Woody Road Azle Texas 76020 Since 1993 nt...@1scom.net 817.917.0527 www.ntrei.com -Original Message- >From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of NickSoleil >Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 9:47 PM >To: RE-wrenches >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Flashings- to nail or not tonail > > >HIWrenches: >My crew wants to nail all the flashings on ourfootings, but I am >resisting. Do you guys have any strong feelings aboutthat. > > Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative EnergySolutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell:707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax: 707-769-9037 > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated flexible metal cable
If it is metal clad cable, then it isn't rated for outdoor applications, but it doesn't matter much if it is 24V. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Peter Parrish To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 8:36:45 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated flexible metal cable I recently had the opportunity to visit a City of Los Angeles Remote Automated Weather Station (RAWS). See http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/queryF?s=mtw&d=now&span=24hours I noticed that the system was wired using a flexible metal cable (1/2"). It had a continuous outer metallic covering that looked to be aluminum. I asked my host about the cable and he said that he hadn't been involved in the installation and didn't know much about conduit/cable/wire. The conditions are certainly "damp" i.e. outdoors, but I don't know about "wet". The cable runs were completely exposed to the weather. The cable carried low voltage "data" and "power". I am pretty sure it didn't carry 120/240Vac, but again my host didn't know. Does any one know what this cable might be? If you would like a photo, I could send one off-line. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white?
The colored USE-2 wiring is UV resistant (as rated) and it is the better kind (double jacketed.) I like! Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Dave Palumbo To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, August 2, 2010 12:14:50 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? My application for #8 and #6 is in conduit from the PV array combiner to the DC disconnect/inverter. So, UV protection is not important. Better quality insulation is my concern. We had a couple of spools of #8 THHN/THWN-2 test below the norm with a Fluke insulation tester recently. My local CED distributor did track down the white USE-2 for us. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Peter Parrish Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 2:52 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? Then I agree that the lack of carbon black could be a problem for USE-2 wire. Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 11:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? The red is USE-2, RHH and RHW-2, rubber jacket. BiccGeneral (sp?) Durasheath. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 11:36 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: I think we should be careful in two respects: (1) We have found “black with white stripe” for #10 USE-2. Since we have not had a use for anything larger than #10, I don’t know if black with a white stripe is available for larger gauges. It seems intuitive that “black with a white stripe” should have superior sunlight resistance than “all white”. (2) The wire with red insulation might actually be “XLP or CPE” wire, rated USE-2. The “XLP/CLP” is a polyethylene-based not a rubber-based compound. One thing I like about the XLP/CPE is that it is slicker than cat shit (and with a smaller OD for same wire gauge), much easier to pull in conduit even for the short distances that we typically have between PV modules and the first j-box. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 10:20 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] USE-2 in white? It's been years since we ordered it, but we got black, red and white from Anixter, 1-800-538-5431. Our rep Johnny X2832. The white fades in our intense sun, but is still adequately gray/white after 15 years. Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 8/2/2010 10:40 AM, Mick Abraham wrote: The sales rep at a wire mfr recently opined that USE-2 colors other than black will not have the same sunlight resistance. I had some red in the field which faded to pink but still looked OK after a few years...but that's only after a few years, and only OK. White in the same installation faded to...white but I still am nervous about using colors after that conversation. The latest batch that I bought is straight black; I believe the black stuff contains carbon black which is the "secret sauce" for UV resistance. Further input from the List would be appreciated. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 10:32 AM, EcoSolar - Eric Andrews wrote: YES. We get ours from PLATT Electric. Most electric supply houses should have this wire. It is definitely nice for your DC source circuits. Eric R. Andrews NABCEP Certified PV Installer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re
Re: [RE-wrenches] Aluminum conduit LBs
Hi Marco: You are correct, I have noticed that most LBs do limit the fill area of your conduit. As you probably notice, making a 90 bend requires some extra area, especially for large conductors. This is one good reason to not fill the conduits to maximum capacity. Most LBs and other boxes do list the area of the box on it. If you are not sure, you should perform a calculation to determine how much of the total area you are consuming, based upon NEC requirements. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Marco Mangelsdorf To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, August 12, 2010 8:19:08 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Aluminum conduit LBs Anyone know where I could go to find out the max conductor sizes that threaded Al. LBs can handle? I learned the hard way that a conduit of X inches that can handle conductors of a certain size does not necessarily mean that a LB of the same diameter can handle the same size conductors. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar
What a joke? They talk about the incentives for a system like theirs in California, and mention what the rebate would be based on $2/ watt, but the incentive now is $.55/watt. Then they talk about plugging into a receptacle, as if the utility would allow. Also, he doesn't mention that getting a rebate requires a permit, which will cost more than the incentive. Additionally the incentives in CA require a minimum 1 KW system. I assume their business module is really just about attracting investors. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: John McNicholas - Key Power Services To: Re-wrenches Sent: Sun, August 22, 2010 2:03:12 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Plug-in solar Coming to a hardware store near you. http://www.cnn.com/2010/TECH/innovation/08/17/plug.in.solar.energy/index.html?hpt=C2 John McNicholas NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™ Key Power Services, Inc. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Shell SM110-12P Pvs
Perhaps the inverter is too hot, and derating its power for temperature. Have you installed a fan (such as a SunnyFan on the heat sink, to help it cool. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: frenergy To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tue, August 24, 2010 6:27:13 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Shell SM110-12P Pvs Wrenches, I installed a grid tied system 6 years ago consisting of 24, Shell 110 watt, 12V PVs ( Vmp = 17.5V, 6.9 amps short circuit), running through an SMA2500U inverter, one string, very short DC run ala 10 ga. USE-2 wire. At installation I documented a solar noon output of 1900 watts, a hair low of SMA's estimated inverter output for that temp. However, over the years, the customer and myself have seen the output gradually drop to lately about 1250 watts under the same conditions, panels clean. It's kinda a long story, but let's just say I know the inverter is not the problem (recently changed-out to a factory rebuilt job with no change in outputdifferent issue). I clamped the DC pos before the inverter and got 4.7 amps (about 11AM, array faces 180 degrees, 6:12 pitch, clean PVs, 80 degrees, F.), DC neg was about 4.3 amps (hmmm). SMA display and my meter reading for Vmp for the array about 300 volts, pretty low it seems (Green light steady on the inverter, GFI fuse not failing, SMA display power about 1250 watts. I guess I should have clamped the inverter output... I didn't. It looked to me like a failed PV. So, I removed (as in unbolted, unwired, removed) all 24 PVs to find that all Voc and Isc with a Fluke 87 were "good", meaning 6.2 amps short circuit (I never seem to get the full rated output on any new or old PV for Isc). That was fun. Before I finish here a note, the panels have the Procharger, J box, which means 2 Jboxes (pos and neg) per panel, SS screws to secure your USE-2 wire. So, PVs check out, it's the wiring?? I saw no chaffing, wearing, cracks, etc in the wiring. I will remount the PVs and diligently resecure the wiring. I'm looking for comments about these PVs (I tried calling Arco-Siemens-Shell- now Solarworld today, after 4 tries got a human being who told me the guy that may know about any issues with these PVs is on vacation till next week). Or, anything else that may help me find the loss of power here. Should I spray on some contact cleaner then use silicone grease on the wire/terminal connection? Thanks in advance, Bill Battagin Feather River Solar Electric 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530-284-7849/6544 fax ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tight roof layout questions: edge walkway requirements & "small gap" hardware options
Almost all city jurisdictions in the North Bay Area are currently requiring the fire access walkways. So we have definitely had to scale back a few of our system sizes to accommodate the walkways, and one project even cancelled when they realized they couldn't fit the system size that they wanted. One of the more difficult jurisdictions, Napa City, requires walkways on both sides of the roof and along the top. Also, to clarify a statement that made earlier, regarding the gap with Prosolar's TileTrac system, the mid clip is 5/8" wide. This is 3/8" thinner than the Unirac mid-clip, which is 1". This results in a 3" savings across an 8 module array. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Mick Abraham To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 5:53:31 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Tight roof layout questions: edge walkway requirements & "small gap" hardware options The Wrench List participants have again responded with aplomb. Thanks to all for the dozen or so replies. My takeaway from this is that I need to send my roof layouts to the nearby fire department...it's another "authority having jurisdiction" situation. I received the below mail "off list" from a fire captain in San Jose. He cannot post to the List so he asked me to post on his behalf. Moderator Michael approved, so Matt Paiss' remarks are copied below. Jolliness, Mick Abraham, Proprietor www.abrahamsolar.com Voice: 970-731-4675 Mick,I wanted to reply to your post. As a firefighter, and an instructor of PV safety for the fire service like Dan Fink, I would like to take a moment to expand on what Dan was eluding to. Firefighters will not always look at an edge-to-edge array and decide to "Let it burn" just based on the array size. We will take into account the size of the fire, the involvement of the actual structural members, and the potential life risk within the structure before any tactical strategy is implemented. I have written off buildings just based on wind, or available water supply. What a setback (the term being used for walkways) allows is primarily for access to a roof, or rapid egress off a roof when the fire gets out of control, not necessarily for cutting a hole. I teach firefighters to vent on the other side of the ridge from the array. There is no time to remove modules, and while micro-inverters definitely address the safety issues of a 600vdc string, they do not address access or egress. I am not going to recommend that ANY firefighter tear off a module to vent a roof because he "thinks" a micro-inverter is present. I realize that these new codes are more restrictive, but even wind load zones recommend against edge-to-edge installs. There will be some latitude in the fire codes for setbacks, so I recommend building a good relationship with your local AHJ's. One way of doing this is by demonstrating safe, high quality installs. I have seen too many wire-ties holding up PV wire that will be rubbing against comp shingles for a decade. How confident are you that that will not be a problem? Regards, Matt Paiss Matthew Paiss, Fire CaptainSan Jose Fire Department 170 W. San Carlos St. San Jose, CA 95113 (831) 566-3057 cell On Thu, Aug 26, 2010 at 12:45 AM, Philip Boutelle wrote: Just to clarify what is and isn't law in California: >the final draft guidelines developed and adopted by Cal Fire are guidelines, >not >law, unless the local fire/AHJ has adopted them or parts of them into local >ordinances. I have heard that in Southern Cal, those guidelines have been >adopted all over the place already, but not so in the rest of the state >yet. >I think the guideline was officially incorporated into the next NEC/NFPA >cycle, >so it will be law pretty soon. Bill Brooks could probably confirm here on >future >adoption. >Not that any of this helps your Atlanta install > > >-Phil Boutelle >Real Goods Solar > > >On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Max Balchowsky wrote: > >Mick, here in California the fire department in the various agencies has the >final say on clearances. There is a very clear cut standard in place for the >state, but we have been successful a few times in getting allowances to vary >due >to various site conditions. A call to the local AHJ is the place to start. In >the early days of our installations (mid 1990's) we used power strut and >bolted >panels directly to the rails. A lot slower but no gaps between panels. We went >from there to designing our own "T" clamps. There wasn't as many choices then >for mounting hardware. > >>
Re: [RE-wrenches] roof noise after solar install.
We had a similar issue, which had more to do with the construction of the house than the rail span. The system was on a 40' long array, but we had an expansion joint every 11' or so. The issue with our popping sound mirrored yours (it would cause the noise in the morning and into the evening. At our site, the noise occured at a location where a new addition had been attached to an older structure, and were not fastened together properly. We resolved the issue by isolating the rail sets from each other where the two structures met. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Darryl Thayer To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, August 30, 2010 10:02:35 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] roof noise after solar install. The roof is trusses, and OSB on top and comp shingles, one layer --- On Mon, 8/30/10, hol...@sbcglobal.net wrote: > From: hol...@sbcglobal.net > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] roof noise after solar install. > To: "RE-wrenches" > Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 8:42 AM > Darryl, > Just thinking.wonder if the roof expansion along with > the rail expansion > are creating the issuewhat kind of decking, roofing > material is > involved? It may be that the combination of the two might > require a joint > even though you haven't exceeded the 30' limitjust > guessing. > > Holt E. Kelly > Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products > 500 Jewell Dr. > Waco TX. 76712 > 254-751-9111 > www.holteksolar.com > > - Original Message - > From: "Darryl Thayer" > To: "RE-wrenches" > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 8:34 AM > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] roof noise after solar install. > > > Thanks I missed that, but my longest run is just under 30' > I would think > this requires an expansion joint at 20' or longer? > Darryl > > --- On Mon, 8/30/10, hol...@sbcglobal.net > > wrote: > > > From: hol...@sbcglobal.net > > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] roof noise after solar > install. > > To: "RE-wrenches" > > Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 8:29 AM > > Not looking at Unirac's install > > manual, but I'm pretty sure it says > > something like "expansion joint may be required in run > of > > 30' or > > longer"I'm guessing that means one per 30' > runI > > would verify with > > them..they have expansion joint plates. > > > > Holt E. Kelly > > Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products > > 500 Jewell Dr. > > Waco TX. 76712 > > 254-751-9111 > > www.holteksolar.com > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Darryl Thayer" > > To: "RE-wrenches" > > Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 8:21 AM > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] roof noise after solar > install. > > > > > > How frequently would you suggest? I have none at this > > point, and where to > > get joint and where to place? > > > > --- On Mon, 8/30/10, hol...@sbcglobal.net > > > > wrote: > > > > > From: hol...@sbcglobal.net > > > > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] roof noise after > solar > > install. > > > To: "RE-wrenches" > > > Date: Monday, August 30, 2010, 7:55 AM > > > Expansion joint in rails? > > > > > > Holt E. Kelly > > > Holtek Fireplace & Solar Products > > > 500 Jewell Dr. > > > Waco TX. 76712 > > > 254-751-9111 > > > www.holteksolar.com > > > > > > - Original Message - From: "Darryl > Thayer" > > > > > To: "newrewrenches" > > > Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2010 8:08 PM > > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] roof noise after solar > > install. > > > > > > > > > > New roof asphalt shingle, 5.1 kW system, > string > > > inverter makes roof noises in the morning, and > > afternoon > > > particularly after dark > > > > > > > > Creek and crack it finally stops late at > night > > but > > > restarts late morning and stops mid afternoon > most > > days then > > > intensifies after dark. Timing seems to follow > > > temperature, has customer freeked > > > > > > > > Longest tun is 30 feet Unirack rail with > top > > down > > > clamps. > > > > Darryl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Re: [RE-wrenches] Micro-Inverter Vs Central Inverters $150 Design Challenge
Hi Ryan: I don't want to take your money, but I am sure I could, if I had the time to waste. I have issues with Enphase, too, and I am very aware of the drawbacks, but they are not nearly as extreme as you make them sound. You did not even mention the #1 reason to use Enphase, however, which is the awesome monitoring ability. This is the clear reason to utilize Enphase. I have replaced more than 50 bad modules in the last couple of years, and I bet there are a ton more out there that we haven't found. I was at a site yesterday which had BP modules, and three of the modules had failed on one 36 module system. Micro-inverters could have saved a ton of troubleshooting time. On this job, we had to uninstall dozens of modules, test them, and re-install the modules, adding up to more than 10 hours of labor. At $90 per hour, that is $900 that would have been saved by this one customer. Plus, the failed modules would have been discovered much earlier, and would not have caused multiple strings to fail!!! What a waste. Enphase eliminates this. - I have installed thousands of Enphase inverters, and have only seen one failure. Only one. They are far more reliable than string inverters - The wiring included with the Enphase wiring harnesses is too small, so I break each circuit into two sub-circuits, so this adds a $50 cable, which is necessary, but manageable, IMHO. - They are more expensive, and listed at .5% lower efficiency than some string inverters, but higher than others. - It can be difficult to maintain a 1.5% voltage drop on the AC side, but there is almost no DC drop, which is a plus that makes up for the lower efficiency. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Ryan LeBlanc To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Tue, August 31, 2010 9:47:34 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Micro-Inverter Vs Central Inverters $150 Design Challenge Ok just got off the phone with a former student, now a designer at a significant module manufacturer and I've almost hit my limit discussing this, which now I'll make worse I'm sure. ... I can't believe that Enphase has received as much attention as they have. In my humble opinion, I'm asked way too much about this relatively insignificant industry product. I wish I never discussed the ups and downs of micro-inverters with Raghu and Martin before Enphase was Enphase. Too many downsides to list, there are few niche applications that they can work well within. Small residential is absolutely as far as it goes. Large scale, no way. Their marketing department deserves the MVP for the company, and the psychology of regular people and mostly solar newbie's today, plays right into the "New & Shiny" toy thing. We all know conductor runs benefit from higher voltages, at lower voltages for the same power, systems require larger more expensive conductors, overcurrent protection devices, Yadda Yadda Yadda. They are not less expensive. They are not easier to design with. They are not more reliable. The proof will surely come out. Don't be afraid of string inverters, you can do very short strings, and don't choose to go with the bite size, but still un-satisfying experience of working with them. OK, yes, it may be true that, central inverters are no more reliable than micro-inverters, by the same logic micro-inverters are no more reliable than central inverters. There will always be a small percentage of bad units, a known reality of electronics. So I ask, as you are installing these inverters, do you know if they are good until you have installed the modules, plugged them in and run them? I know I don't, in which case I don't know if I'm burying 1,2,5,10,20, etc of bad units under the modules... in which case, you have to remove the modules, often involving a lot of labor on the roof, requiring getting the harnesses back on, setting up the ladder, replacing the "one-time-only" WEEBS (if you use them) or undoing the equipment ground, cutting and re-bundling wires and zip-ties, etc, etc. The reason they won't be able to get much cheaper will be because of quality control and testing each one extensively before leaving the factory, and support, service and warranty response teams will be busy, busy. If there's a project bigger than one string of 3 typical cSi modules, shortest length I know the Sunny Boy 700U can work on, and you believe Enphase is required due to shading or whatever, then A.) You probably shouldn't be installing PV there, or B) You may need to learn about the existing options and brush up on some other design techniques. A good question recently asked about performance is, "Are the claims of shading performance gains that Enphase pr
Re: [RE-wrenches] modules and inverter poll
SunPower. Highest efficiency, Most Attractive, Best Producing Enphase or SMA- Most Reliable, High Efficiency, Great Support, and familiar Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Marco Mangelsdorf To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, September 1, 2010 10:14:11 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] modules and inverter poll What is your no. 1 preferred PV module manufacturer and why? I’m not looking for a dissertation, but a sentence or two. And while I’m at it, how about inverter manufacturer as well? I’ll tabulate all the answers for those interested. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] RE Visio shapes files
You need Visio Professional to get the engineering libraries Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: boB Gudgel To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sun, September 5, 2010 7:22:12 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] RE Visio shapes files Hello Wrenches. Do any of you know where to find shape library files for drawing RE pix in Microsoft Visio ?? Solar, Wind, batteries, etc... Thanks, boB ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset
Considering that most of us have been designing and installing solar for a long time, we are all pretty comfortable with the Solar Pathfinder (or even the Solar Site Selector,) and I was resistant to upgrading to the Suneye. However, in recent years, I have moved to the Solmetric Suneye, and I will never go back to the Pathfinder Software for a professional shade analysis. If you like sitting over the Pathfinder with your customer, you will love doing that with the Suneye. The Suneye can take the picture, it will provide you with an exact calculation of the annual, summer, and winter shading factors, with a great capture of the sky at that location. My Suneye paid for itself in the first month, due to all the time I saved over using the Pathfinder software, which requires taking pictures, uploading them, renaming the images, editing them in the software, creating traces, returning to the site when the the camera images are blurry, or the glare is too much to see the shadows, etc. The Solmetric Suneye, will normally see the electric wires overhead, and will add some shading due to it, but it does not effect the shading factors very extensively. The wires can not be added with the Pathfinder Software. I have not tried the Wiley tool, but it sounds like it will have many of the same time consuming issues as the Pathfinder and its software. Keep in mind that if you are trying to locate an array, calculating the exact shading factor while on the roof can be very time consuming with the pathfinder, but is instant with the Suneye. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: R Ray Walters To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, September 8, 2010 11:21:07 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset The problem with all shading analysis tools I've used, is that they can't take into account the effects partial shading has on string performance. You have to calculate that separately, based on how you'll be wiring the strings. 2nd, I know that usually power lines (if far enough away) won't have much of an effect, as the light refracts around them somewhat, so it doesn't cast a sharp shadow. Same thing with tree branches. This is where it gets tricky, no hard and fast rules that someone can write some software for. It's going to depend on the modules, too. (some have more bypass diodes, etc.) So the best you could do, is test with one module at the installed angle, and shade it with a thin branch or wire at varying distances to see what the effects are. 25 ft I'm not sure, at 50 ft, a power line or small branch is probably OK, and 10 ft. you'll have a problem for sure. Just look at the shadows at the time of day you're worried about, to get some idea. I've often found a very fuzzy, almost indiscernible shadow at a distance that won't hurt performance too much. The shadows seem to get fuzzier at early morning and late afternoon (smog effects?) which helps, too. Basically if some cells are seeing 600 W/m2 while adjacent cells are getting 700 or 800 W/m2, its probably going to be fine. If several cells only get 100 W/m2 (full shading) while the rest get over 700 W/m2, that is going to cause real problems. This would be another use for micro inverters, you won't lose whole strings, and even a partially shaded module will still have some usable output when wired to its own inverter. Personally, though, I usually just relocate the array. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Sep 8, 2010, at 11:30 PM, benn kilburn wrote: Thanks for the feed back guys, much appreciated! > > >Now, how would you calculate for power/phone lines running thru the >Pathfinder's >reflection. There are about 6 of them (the largest being at least 1") at >least >25-30 ft away directly east of the proposed array location, and they are >running >straight north-south. On the Pathfinder they run btwn 9 and 11am in June and >btwn 10:30 and 11:30 in December. > > >Would the pathfinder software, suneye or asset pick up on utility lines at >that >distance? How much effect do they have on available sun output? And while i'm >at it, how much do the 'software' tools pick up on the tips of leafless tree >branches at say 25ft, 50ft? > > >i'll try out that spreadsheet idea, nice one! > > >cheers, >benn > >DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. >b...@daystarsolar.ca >780-906-7807 >HAVE A SUNNY DAY > > > > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 20:05:08 -0700 >To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >From: will...@millersolar.com >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset > >Benn: > >A colle
Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset
Hi Kent: I am sure that aerial wires have very little impact on system outputs. I just checked the Enphase Enlighten data for a system I recently installed, which had a 1-2" to 3/4" wire bundle running just 5' above a solar modules. The wire cast a distinct shadow on the module in question, but upon reviewing the output of that module, compared with all other modules at the same orientation, I have found that there is absolutely no effect on the production. I am surprised that I can not even see any difference. That module has always produced within 99% of the other modules on that roof, and the total output of that module is as high or higher than the other modules! Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Kent Osterberg To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 9:38:55 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset Benn, At 25 ft a 1-inch power line subtends an angle of 0.2 degree. The sun subtends an angle of 0.5 degree, so the power line will not make a dark shadow on the modules - only 50% of the light can be blocked. Depending on the distance from the module to the wire, along the ray to the sun, the wire will probably block a little less light. But a 50% reduction in the light on a few cells will probably reduce the entire module output by 50%. A shadow every day for the hours you are talking about sounds like a pretty serious issue. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar benn kilburn wrote: Thanks for the feed back guys, much appreciated! > > >Now, how would you calculate for power/phone lines running thru the >Pathfinder's >reflection. There are about 6 of them (the largest being at least 1") at >least >25-30 ft away directly east of the proposed array location, and they are >running >straight north-south. On the Pathfinder they run btwn 9 and 11am in June and >btwn 10:30 and 11:30 in December. > > >Would the pathfinder software, suneye or asset pick up on utility lines at >that >distance? How much effect do they have on available sun output? And while i'm >at it, how much do the 'software' tools pick up on the tips of leafless tree >branches at say 25ft, 50ft? > > >i'll try out that spreadsheet idea, nice one! > > >cheers, >benn > >DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. >b...@daystarsolar.ca >780-906-7807 >HAVE A SUNNY DAY > > > > Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 20:05:08 -0700 >To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >From: will...@millersolar.com >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset > >Benn: > >A colleague has used the Wiley took and calls it 'marginal.' > >I use the Pathfinder and I like the features Ray described. I wrote a very >simple spreadsheet using the teeny numbers on the month lines to create 100% >of >any month. I highlight and delete any of the numbers that are shaded and the >remainder is the percent of exposure for a given month. You can multiply the >output of PV watts or any other production result for a complete production >prediction. Easy and free. > >William Miller > > >At 05:38 PM 9/8/2010, you wrote: > >I've used the Pathfinder for decades, so I'm partial to them. Great for >on-site >discussions of shading issues with the customer, as multiple people can see >the >shading at the same time on the spot. >>I've also used their Assistant software, and it works pretty well. You take a >>photo of the actual pathfinder from above, and then download the photo into >>their software. >>You can then calculate total annual impact of any shading in Kwh, or >>percentage >>of annual production. >>I've been quite happy with the system, and the price for a Pathfinder, and >>the >>software is much less than the Suneye, I believe. >> >>R. Walters >>r...@solarray.com >>Solar Engineer >> >> >> >> >>On Sep 8, 2010, at 3:46 PM, benn kilburn wrote: >> >> >>Wrenches, >>> >>>I'm looking at trying out another 'solar site evaluation tool', the ASSET >>>(Acme >>>Solar Site Evaluation Tool) from Wiley Electronics. I'm looking for >>>feedback on >>>its performance and user-ability. >>>I have been using the pathfinder which is great, but not the pathfinder >>>software. >>> >>>Any comments on the ASSET or Pathfinder software would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>>Cheers, >>>benn >>> >>>DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. &g
Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset
Hi Kent: At my site, the wire is directly above the module, and the module is oriented with a 210 deg. AZ, and the shadow is there most of the day. It is a very clear, visible shadow and has had no effect on output. Strangely, that module has produced more power than any other module on the roof. So maybe it helps the output, I doubt that, though. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Kent Osterberg To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 10:50:38 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset Nick, Depending on the hours that the shadow is on the module, that indeed may be the case. I have a similar circumstance with a recent Enphase installation too: the shadow of a triplex service cable about 6 feet away shadows the lower half of the array from sunrise until 7:00 am (in the summer it won't last as long but in the winter it'll last longer). During the time in question, the power output is reduced by nearly 20%, yet the energy output for the day is only reduced by 0.2% because the shadow doesn't last long and it occurs at a time when the power output is low. The effect on energy production depends on how large the shadow is, how long it lasts, and what hours it occurs. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar Nick Soleil wrote: Hi Kent: >I am sure that aerial wires have very little impact on system outputs. I >just checked the Enphase Enlighten data for a system I recently installed, >which >had a 1-2" to 3/4" wire bundle running just 5' above a solar modules. The >wire >cast a distinct shadow on the module in question, but upon reviewing the >output >of that module, compared with all other modules at the same orientation, I >have >found that there is absolutely no effect on the production. I am surprised >that >I can not even see any difference. That module has always produced within 99% >of the other modules on that roof, and the total output of that module is as >high or higher than the other modules! >Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell: 707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax: 707-769-9037 > > > > > From: Kent Osterberg >To: RE-wrenches >Sent: Thu, September 9, 2010 9:38:55 AM >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset > > Benn, > >At 25 ft a 1-inch power line subtends an angle of 0.2 degree. The sun >subtends >an angle of 0.5 degree, so the power line will not make a dark shadow on the >modules - only 50% of the light can be blocked. Depending on the distance >from >the module to the wire, along the ray to the sun, the wire will probably block >a >little less light. But a 50% reduction in the light on a few cells will >probably reduce the entire module output by 50%. A shadow every day for the >hours you are talking about sounds like a pretty serious issue. > >Kent Osterberg >Blue Mountain Solar > > >benn kilburn wrote: >Thanks for the feed back guys, much appreciated! >> >> >>Now, how would you calculate for power/phone lines running thru the >>Pathfinder's >>reflection. There are about 6 of them (the largest being at least 1") at >>least >>25-30 ft away directly east of the proposed array location, and they are >>running >>straight north-south. On the Pathfinder they run btwn 9 and 11am in June and >>btwn 10:30 and 11:30 in December. >> >> >>Would the pathfinder software, suneye or asset pick up on utility lines at >>that >>distance? How much effect do they have on available sun output? And while >>i'm >>at it, how much do the 'software' tools pick up on the tips of leafless tree >>branches at say 25ft, 50ft? >> >> >>i'll try out that spreadsheet idea, nice one! >> >> >>cheers, >>benn >> >>DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. >>b...@daystarsolar.ca >>780-906-7807 >>HAVE A SUNNY DAY >> >> >> >> Date: Wed, 8 Sep 2010 20:05:08 -0700 >>To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>From: will...@millersolar.com >>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wiley Asset >> >>Benn: >> >>A colleague has used the Wiley took and calls it 'marginal.' >> >>I use the Pathfinder and I like the features Ray described. I wrote a very >>simple spreadsheet using the teeny numbers on the month lines to create 100% >>of >>any month. I highlight and delete any
Re: [RE-wrenches] Delta LAs
Hi Kristopher: How about not using them. I refer to lightning arrestors as lightning faeries. We install them to make us feel safe. They are there to protect our equipment, but we aren't really sure if they work. They are inexpensive enough to install, but don't really do anything. When I have seen failed lightning faeries they are always next to burned up electronics. They don't have a UL listing, and if they fail, they cause a fault condition. I used to say 'they are an inexpensive first line of defense.' Now I just don't use them. I do find 'Polyphaser' works, though. But they cost almost as much as new equipment. I also think that AC surge suppresion devices are smart. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Kristopher Schmid To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tue, September 14, 2010 6:29:45 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Delta LAs It is quite ironic that just a week after I posted a question to the group on testing the integrity of lightning arrestors, I had one apparently faulty out of the box. The manifest of this was interesting: when the AC LA (LA302R) was connected in parallel on the AC input to a SB3000 inverter, there was 125vac neutral to L1, 125vac neutral to L2, and 1Vac L1 to L2. SMA tech support suggested the LA as the issue and sure enough, it was. Attempting to test good and faulty arrestors with an ohmmeter gave the same result - off scale open. Any thoughts or comments from the group? Kris Schmid Legacy Solar 864 Clam Falls Trail Frederic, WI 54837 715-653-4295 sol...@legacysolar.com www.legacysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Grounding
Wrenches:
I use WEEB for Enphase, WEEB lugs and jumpers for the rails, and WEEB for
modules, except with SunPower, which uses the GBL-4DBT. If the lug isn't
bolted
on, it probably isn't bonded.
The problem here is UL, not WEEB. I do not share Augusts concerns.
I still feel that the module manufacturers should be responsible for
resolving the grounding and wire management issues. However, I am not holding
my breath.
Nick Soleil
Project Manager
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
PO Box 657
Petaluma, CA 94953
Cell: 707-321-2937
Office: 707-789-9537
Fax:707-769-9037
From: Mark Frye
To: RE-wrenches
Sent: Tue, September 14, 2010 7:05:41 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters
I believe the AC GEC runs from; the point where the ungrounded current
carrying
conductor is bonded to the enclosure of the service enterance equipment; to
the
connection to the ground electrode system. Conductors that run from the
service
enterance equipment, thru the premis to the Enphase are bonding jumpers that
are not required to be continuous.
Mark Frye
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
303 Redbud Way
Nevada City, CA 95959
(530) 401-8024
www.berkeleysolar.com
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 9:46 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters
Friends:
According to the 2005 NEC 250.64(C), the GEC for an AC system needs to be
continuous without splices unless they are irreversible. I am not clear where
this conductor starts and ends. Is it from the ground buss in a sub-panel to
the disconnect switch on the roof, or to each inverter?
Also, non-reversible splices need to be listed for use in grounding systems.
Any suggestions on make and model of splices so listed?
Any advise from those more experienced is much appreciated.
William Miller
Please note new e-mail address and domain:
William Miller
Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: will...@millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
License No. C-10-773985
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Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters
Yes, Enphase bonds the DC positive to ground in their inverters. This allows them to work with all modules, including SunPower. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Brian Mehalic To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 6:19:21 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters According to the Enphase website (/support/faqs): "The Enphase Microinverter manual states that the device is positively grounded. Don't most PV modules have negative grounds? Is this a problem for Enphase? Enphase made the decision to positively ground its microinverters to minimize corrosion. Because Enphase Microinverters are positively grounded, they are compatible with both positively and negatively grounded modules." Now I couldn't actually find that anywhere in any of their installation manuals...but the instructions for "Grounding the System" does say to "Route a continuous GEC through each of the Micro-inverters and AC branch circuit junction box to the NEC approved AC grounding electrode." Clearly this conductor will function as both the DC GEC and the EGC, too. Inspectors in Arizona (some of them anyway) have been allowing the DC GEC to land on the ground buss in the main service for some time. I sort of find the idea of an irreversible bond a little silly (well especially where the two GECs must come together) - I've worked on a lot of systems using only ground rods, and the connection to them is often made with the most reversible of connectors (an acorn), and usually it is excessively accessible. And of course the other end of the AC GEC is landed on a bus too. Brian On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 11:09 PM, R Ray Walters wrote: It seems to me that William's original question of where does the EGC stop, and the GEC begin, all depends on whether the Enphase inverters bond negative to ground internally. >Did we ever get an answer from Enphase? > >If they don't, then I think by definition in article 100, we would only have >an >EGC (no DC GEC, since neither DC conductor is grounded). >If they do bond neg. to ground, then from the inverter all the way to the >electrode should be an "unbroken" DC GEC, and stopping at the main service >ground buss would constitute a prohibited reversible connection. (it seems we >should at least bond irreversibly to the AC GEC after it leaves the buss, or >sink another electrode for the DC GEC and the array frame as required by >690.47(D)) > > >Please, somebody flog me with some facts and code, so we can put this dying >horsey to bed. > > >R. Walters >r...@solarray.com >Solar Engineer > > > > > > >On Sep 14, 2010, at 6:31 PM, August Goers wrote: > >Hi All - >> >>I would just add that having a good c-tap crimping tool on hand is just about >>as >>valuable as it gets in the solar business. I remember holding off on getting >>one >>because of the $200 or $300 price tag but once you have it you won't believe >>you >>lived without it. The possibilities are almost endless, but we use our >>crimpers >>to bond our GECs to the other existing GECs all the time. Ctaps almost always >>replace wire nuts when dealing with bare copper EGCs. The c-taps typically >>cost >>less than $5 a pop and always save that much on labor. Most time when we have >>a >>multiple string inverter installation is makes sense to irreversibly crimp >>the GECs together and run one wire back home. >> >>Greenlee, Panduit, etc make good tools and taps. Let me know if you would >>like >>part numbers... -August >> >> >> >> >>On Tue, Sep 14, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Bill Brooks wrote: >> >>T >___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches..org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- Brian Mehalic NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ PV Online Coordinator Solar Energy International Carbondale, CO 81623 http://www.solarenergy.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters
Thanks Jay: That is true. Enphase and Evergreen are not compatible. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: jay peltz To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, September 15, 2010 4:48:22 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] GEC for Enphase inverters Hi Nick, Last time I checked Evergreen modules don't work with positive ground systems. jay peltz power On Sep 15, 2010, at 9:19 AM, Nick Soleil wrote: Yes, Enphase bonds the DC positive to ground in their inverters. This allows them to work with all modules, including SunPower. > > Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell: 707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax: 707-769-9037 > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] ARRA Question
Of course, No. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Allan Sindelar To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sun, September 19, 2010 9:21:50 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] ARRA Question Does anyone know if NABCEP is a requirement for any project that uses ARRA funding? Thank you, Allan -- AllanSindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] deadly fall off of roof
The Solar City installer was first shocked with 400 VDC, and then fell to his death. My friends at that company have complained about the inexperienced designers there and the lack of quality controls. They said that they only hire designers from right out of college. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: "solar...@aol.com" To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Fri, September 24, 2010 11:58:43 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] deadly fall off of roof Wrenches: When you have 7 minutes, check out this video on 'fall restraint' - you may get dizzy (as I did) and you may wonder, as I did, HTF they built it in the first place: http://video.yahoo.com/network/101149635?v=8244494&l=5144241 Pat Redgate Ameco Solar In a message dated 9/24/2010 9:39:56 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, k...@vtsolar.com writes: The two instances are not the same. The skylight accident happenedprevious to April 2010, and the company is listed in the accident report , but I don't recall the name. They are a large CA electricalcontractor. > >Kirk Herander >VSE > >On Sep 24, 2010, at 11:25 AM, "Bill Brooks" wrote: > > >Marco, >> >>The company was purposely not identified. I believe the young man fell >>through a skylight while moving equipment during construction. Much more >>likely way to die since most people assume a skylight will bear their >>weight if they fall against it. Edge of roof falls definitely occur, but >>self preservation instincts are usually much more heightened in these >>areas. >> >>Bill. >> >>From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >>[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Marco >>Mangelsdorf >>Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 7:09 PM >>To: 'RE-wrenches' >>Subject: [RE-wrenches] deadly fall off of roof >> >>A 30-year-old PV installer fell to his death back in April at job site >>in >>CA. He backed off of a roof accidentally and was not wearing any fall >>protection. >> >>I have the official report of the accident, but the “multi-state >>full-service solar provider” that has “approximately 650 employees” was >>not >>identified. >> >>Anyone know which company this was? >> >>Thanks, >>marco >> ___ > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Protecting the Installer
Why is re-wrenches trying to protect Solar City? The installer was shocked, fell, and died! I am shocked that none of the media reports have named them? When a company takes hundreds of millions from Wall Street, becomes one of the biggest companies overnight, and then can't ensure safety and quality control, then we should be able to discuss it. It is a learning experience for all of us. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Pulse charge controller
Bryan White: Who is on this board now works for a solar distributor, but he was my primary contact at Pulse and then Connect. I think he works for Eagle Roofing. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Marco Mangelsdorf To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sun, September 26, 2010 9:56:32 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pulse charge controller I’m looking for an old (as in late 1990s vintage) PM-60 48V charge controller, the kind that Pulse/Connect Energy used in their PC 250 load center. Please to contact me off-list if you might have one in good working order lying around somewhere. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Fw: Pulse charge controller
Hi Marco: Bryan White, who is on this board, now works for a different solar company in Grass Valley. He was my primary contact at Pulse and then Connect. I think he works for Eagle Roofing now. He would be a good person to ask about this. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Marco Mangelsdorf To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sun, September 26, 2010 9:56:32 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Pulse charge controller I’m looking for an old (as in late 1990s vintage) PM-60 48V charge controller, the kind that Pulse/Connect Energy used in their PC 250 load center. Please to contact me off-list if you might have one in good working order lying around somewhere. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace/Xantrex info
Hi Allan: I too have found it difficult to find Xantrex and Trace owners manuals for SW and XW products. I don't deal with C-40s or DRs much these days, luckily. I did find a PDF at another site for the SW series manual, www.aaasolar.com/ProdLit/Trace/SWManual.pdf . Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Allan Sindelar To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tue, October 5, 2010 9:27:53 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Trace/Xantrex info Wrenches, Xantrex' website now appears to include only products related to their RV/mobile line, with Heart 458s and similar products. Their document depot includes only manuals related to discontinued items in these markets. While I have most inverter manuals etc. already downloaded as pdfs, I have often sent web links to customers seeking information and product manuals for Trace (and some Xantrex) products in their Document Depot. Can anyone provide a URL for these needs? Is there a web page for the SW owner's manual, or the C40's? Where's XW support? Has Schneider dropped even documentation support, along with extreme price hikes on service parts? Thank you, Allan -- AllanSindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] enphase D380
We installed some D380s a few weeks ago, and it was obvious (as soon as we looked at the price list) that the reduced cost of the inverters was eaten up by the additional cost of the cables. However, Enphase has been developing another cable system, which should replace the existing D-380 cabling system by next year. Magnus has been working on the next cable system, and brought out a prototype to one of our projects during the layout phase. That next cable system will be more versatile, but will not cost much less. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Jason Szumlanski To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 7:21:42 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] enphase D380 One advantage I see in larger systems is more inverters per string. We're looking at doing a 208V ground mount job with panels arranged 24Wx6H. The D380 will allow just 6 strings with junction boxes all neatly aligned. At least on ground mounts, wire management will be a bit easier. I agree that the trunk cable makes the system savings less attractive. The cables for the M190 are already no bargain. Thanks for the good feedback. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bruce Erickson Sent: Wednesday, October 06, 2010 6:27 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] enphase D380 Hi Benn, No one else has tried the D380's? We just commissioned our first D380 system, and I can't say we're too impressed. Mainly, half of the cost savings from the doubles was eaten up by having to buy the trunk cables, and at least all the labor saved by mounting less inverters was eaten up by having to manage the bulky trunk cables. The less-than-optimal reality of array wire management is made more challenging by dealing with these big bulky things. I think we would use these if Enphase goes back to the daisy chain method of the single inverters, but until then, we'll probably stick with the singles. Bruce Erickson Mendocino Solar Service PO Box 1252 Mendocino, CA 95460 707-937-1701 On Sep 23, 2010, at 10:30 PM, benn kilburn wrote: wrenches, so i'm lining up a few installations using the newer Enphase D380 TwinPack microinverter and i'm just looking for any feedback or "heads-up's" before getting started. i'm not foreseeing any issues, it is looking fairly straight forward like the M190's but nonetheless, if any of you have any comments, they would be appreciated. i'll provide some feedback of my own once i've done one or two of these systems. cheers, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex/Schneider GT inverters
They have been backlogged. We had waiting for three weeks for one GT, but it finally arrived yesterday. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Marco Mangelsdorf To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, October 7, 2010 12:12:36 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex/Schneider GT inverters Anyone else having a hard time getting a hold of warranty replacements from Schneider for the Xantrex GT series inverters? What are they doing as far as warranty replacements? Waiting for bad ones to come in so that they can fix them and send them out again? I’ve got a customer who has been waiting for a while now with the “we don’t have any in stock right now and expect them in X weeks” runaround. Makes you appreciate even more those other inverter manufacturers who get their warranty replacements out the door in days…. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase v. string inverter
The main advantage of Enphase is the module level monitoring. However, the increased output due to partial shading can be significant. I was at a 6 year old PV site this week, and a tree had grown up near the base of the roof. Branches were casting a few minor shadows on the array, but was wiping out 75% of the production. I can assure you, those 9 modules would have been producing '50+% greater output' Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Jamie Johnson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 5:38:55 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase v. string inverter Marco, The last I heard the NREL was testing enphase vs. a string inverter, they were also suppose to test enphase vs. A competitors module level mpp tracking. Not sure if that performance test is complete yet. I have seen 1 independent unshaded test ( potentially biased ) which IIRC showed enphase ~1% less than a string inverter, this seems to match the inverters CEC rating. What we see around here is an over estimate of kWh production by the selling contractor using enphase, sometimes by 50+% greater than unshaded kWh estimates. Performance guarantees with monetary compensation back to the customer if estimates are not met can be a good thing and improve the industry IMHO. Jamie Johnson General Manager SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC TM NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #031310-118 (941) 380 - 0098 www.SPEFL.com Commercial & Residential FL State Certified # EC13001765 Sent from my iPhone On Oct 9, 2010, at 7:07 PM, "Marco Mangelsdorf" wrote: Does anyone know of any reports out there from a neutral, 3rd party which compares an Enphase array with an array using a string inverter with both arrays on the same unshaded surface? > >Some Enphase peddlers here are saying that the energy harvest from an Enphase >system is going to be better since they supposedly come on sooner and stay on >later in the day. > >One guy is actually saying that the Enphase inverters come on before the sun >comes over the horizon. Maybe from the same family that claimed that a-Si >modules produced power from the moonlight. > >Thanks, >marco > ___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase v. string inverter
Yes Jamie: I understood what you were saying, and that is too bad. Maybe the sales guys are complete fools, or they are dishonest, or the customer's are misunderstanding what is being said. However, due to the major advantages to offering Enphase, you should consider adding it to your product line. Therefore, you will be on an even playing field, even if folks are providing misinformation. If you offer the product, but are honest about the limitations, they will probably believe you more than if you don't offer the product. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Jamie Johnson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, October 11, 2010 5:25:29 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase v. string inverter Nick, 50+% greater output with enphase than unshaded kWh estimates with a string inverter? That is what my comment referenced, the practice of some installers of taking pvwatts with a 0.85 derate(no shading) & multiplying it by 1.5 or more just to get the sale. A kWh performance guarantee standard would eliminate this practice. Other industries have similar standards to insure the customers receive what they paid for, why not PV? Jamie Johnson General Manager SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC TM NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #031310-118 (941) 380 - 0098 www.SPEFL.com FL State Certified # EC13001765 Sent from my iPhone On Oct 11, 2010, at 12:50 AM, Nick Soleil wrote: The main advantage of Enphase is the module level monitoring. However, the increased output due to partial shading can be significant. I was at a 6 year old PV site this week, and a tree had grown up near the base of the roof. Branches were casting a few minor shadows on the array, but was wiping out 75% of the production. I can assure you, those 9 modules would have been producing '50+% greater output' >Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell: 707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax:707-769-9037 > > > > > From: Jamie Johnson >To: RE-wrenches >Sent: Sun, October 10, 2010 5:38:55 AM >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase v. string inverter > > >Marco, > > >The last I heard the NREL was testing enphase vs. a string inverter, they were >also suppose to test enphase vs. A competitors module level mpp tracking. Not >sure if that performance test is complete yet. > > >I have seen 1 independent unshaded test ( potentially biased ) which IIRC >showed >enphase ~1% less than a string inverter, this seems to match the inverters CEC >rating. > > >What we see around here is an over estimate of kWh production by the selling >contractor using enphase, sometimes by 50+% greater than unshaded kWh >estimates. > > >Performance guarantees with monetary compensation back to the customer if >estimates are not met can be a good thing and improve the industry IMHO. > > >Jamie Johnson >General Manager >SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC TM >NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #031310-118 >(941) 380 - 0098 >www.SPEFL.com >Commercial & Residential >FL State Certified # EC13001765 > > >Sent from my iPhone > > >On Oct 9, 2010, at 7:07 PM, "Marco Mangelsdorf" wrote: > > >Does anyone know of any reports out there from a neutral, 3rd party which >compares an Enphase array with an array using a string inverter with both >arrays >on the same unshaded surface? >> >>Some Enphase peddlers here are saying that the energy harvest from an Enphase >>system is going to be better since they supposedly come on sooner and stay on >>later in the day. >> >>One guy is actually saying that the Enphase inverters come on before the sun >>comes over the horizon. Maybe from the same family that claimed that a-Si >>modules produced power from the moonlight. >> >>Thanks, >>marco >> ___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > ___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wren
Re: [RE-wrenches] Power line shading
I have some anecdotal experience that may be valuable. I just recently installed a system under a set of 3 power and 3 phone wires located about 20' above the array. The system was installed with Enphase micro-inverters, so I could clearly see the effect of the wires on the shaded modules. I just checked todays production, and the modules with wire shadows on them were producing 18-21% less per module than the modules without the shadows. At another site with just one 1/2" phone wire located 3' above a module, that module is producing 2-3% less when shaded. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Eric Thomas To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Mon, October 11, 2010 12:28:33 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Power line shading Hey there, We have a string inverter system installation coming up that has a power line suspended over the roof. The line is diagonal to the roof and about 20' above the surface. It will be very challenging to configure the strings to mitigate shading. Does anyone have experience with the effects on producion from the thin shadow cast by the powerline? Thanks Eric Thomas Solar Epiphany LLC Seattle (206)919-3014 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] What is a solar installer...?
I did not reply to this post originally, because it was pertaining to Canadian contractor laws, but in California, the acceptable license classifications for installing solar are C-10 (electric), C-46 (solar), General Contractor B, or General Engineering Contractor A. These classifications are the classifications listed as acceptable by SunPower in its online SunPower University. I was really excited when the CEC was considering only paying rebates to C-10 and B contractors (in 03'/04'), but that never panned out, just like the requirement for NABCEP never panned out either. The C-46 license was primarily focused on Thermal systems for many years and was created to address thermal contractors, but now includes PV, too. I have personally received the licenses for C-10 and B, and AAES holds a General Engineering A license. I have had to defend the A license to some jurisdictions, who have limited the license requirements to C-10 and B, but the license is classified for 'power plants' and I have always been approved. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC CSL 806325 PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: "solar...@aol.com" To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Fri, October 15, 2010 8:12:34 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] What is a solar installer...? Hello: The reason California instituted the (C46) solar classification 25 years ago is simple: to resolve these issues. At a point in the past, before the C46, in order to operate as a 'solar contractor', one needed a license in the following specialties: Plumbing Electrical Sheet Metal or Heating and Air Swimming Pool Roofing. This being a forum dedicated to discussing technical issues, I feel compelled to restrain my political self. A great percentage (>90%) of the problems we are asked to resolve for stranded adopters have been caused by properly licensed electricians, roofers and general contractors. This not to say that these licensed professions are not qualified, but instead that solar is unique... a separate license is for this trade should be instituted in every jurisdiction. Patrick A. Redgate State license 483280 (C46) Ameco Solar, Inc. In a message dated 10/15/2010 6:22:07 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time, peter.parr...@calsolareng.com writes: HelloBenn, > >I have some pretty strong opinions about this subject but some ofthem are >reflections on politics as opposed to sound engineering design andbest >installation practices. > >See my comments interspersedbelow: > >Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President >California SolarEngineering, Inc. >820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 >CA Lic.854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 >peter.parr...@calsolareng.com >Ph323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax323-258-8885 > > > >From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of benn kilburn >Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2010 1:12 PM >To:Wrenches >Subject: [RE-wrenches] What is a solarinstaller...? > >Wrenches, >a colleague of mine is looking for feedbackto the following email he >received regarding PV installers and electricalwork. I have responded to >him, however, I am quite interested to hearthis list's response > > >LETTER-- >'Colleague' - next weekAlberta’s “major municipalities” electrical chief >inspectorsare getting together to talk about issues. One item I have >asked >to put on the agenda is qualifications of solar installers. Ihope to see a >start on forming some type of agreement on is whois qualified to do what >work on a solar installation and what isconsidered electrical work that >only electricians can perform. > >>>> In California, we have two specialty contractor licensesSolar (C-46) >and Electrical (C-10) and well as the General license (B) --which are >qualified to install PV systems. I myself am a C-46 but I willprobably step >up to taking the C-10 for political reasons. > >Thereseems to be courses popping up all over to teach everyman to bea >solar installer, but what work is clearly reservedfor electricians to do? >The Safety Codes Act speaks to ElectricalSystems, CE (Canadian Electrical) >Code defines electrical installationand electrical equipment. > >>>> Most (but not all) of theauthorities having jurisdiction over PV >installations (here in Californiathese are City or County Building and >Safety Departments) see PV as just anelectrical system and check plans and >do inspections accordingly. Howe
Re: [RE-wrenches] Target fire
Hi Daryl: Unfortunately, the fault would not have been found with a megger because the fault occurred after thermal expansion had causes the conduit to separate. The fault probably occurred shortly after the conduits separated. It appears that what would have prevented the incident would have been if the expansion fitting on the conduit had been installed correctly, with all of the conduit straps allowing some movement. Also, it sounded (from the report) like the conduit fittings were not tightened fully (only hand tight), which contributed to the fault. This is not typical of the quality I would have expected from this manufacturer/ commercial installer. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Darryl Thayer To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, October 18, 2010 12:28:57 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Target fire I keep thinking had the installer routinely megohmed the ground and the "hot" they would have known a ground fault existed, and would have repaired. The event would have not happened. Then the short on the conduit would have triped the ground fault detector, and lead to a repair. No fire. Again it is installers with knowledge, tools and skills. Darryl --- On Mon, 10/18/10, William Miller wrote: >From: William Miller >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Target fire >To: "RE-wrenches" >Date: Monday, October 18, 2010, 1:47 PM > > >Andrew: > >It may be in the report: http://mpandc.com/practices/Safety/safety_data.html > >William > > > > >At 11:30 AM 10/18/2010, you wrote: > > >Does anyone know who installed the infamous Bakersfield Target job? >> >> >> >>Andrew Truitt >>NABCEP Certified PV Installer™ (ID# 032407-66) >>Truitt Renewable Energy Consulting >>(202) 486-7507 >>http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-truitt/8/622/713 >> >> >> >>"Don't get me wrong: I love nuclear energy! It's just that I prefer fusion to >>fission. And it just so happens that there's an enormous fusion reactor >>safely >>banked a few million miles from us. It delivers more than we could ever use >>in >>just about 8 minutes. And it's wireless!" >> >>~William McDonough >> >>___ >>List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >>Options & settings: >>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >>List-Archive: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >>List rules & etiquette: >>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >>Check out participant bios: >>www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >>No virus found in this incoming message. >>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>Version: 8.5.448 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3204 - Release Date: 10/18/10 >>06:34:00 Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 >-Inline Attachment Follows- > > >___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Target fire
Hi Matt: I saw you chimed in after I had sent my posting. It appears that the fire was caused by just the one fault at the loose 2" EMT connector. If one of the module strings was faulted, then the fuse protecting that one string should open, and thus eliminating that string from the array. Why do you think that the module level wiring contributed? Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Matt Lafferty To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, October 18, 2010 1:12:34 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Target fire Andrew, The General/Prime Contractor on the job was SunPower vis a vis Powerlight. As per standard operating procedures there, the actual installation was subbed out. I don't recall which subs they used on this job, but there was more than one. Per their normal routine, one sub installs the racking, modules, and wiring from the modules to the combiners. This sub can have any one of several different license classifications. They use an electrical sub to install the combiners, homeruns, inverters, interconnection. The electrical sub is responsible for terminations. Although I wasn't onsite to inspect the charcoal, I believe there were multiple shorts, not just the separated coupling in the homerun. I suspect there was at least one ground-fault in the array prior to whatever happened at the coupling. If this was the case, then BOTH SUBCONTRACTORS FAILED. They are both at least partially responsible for what happened there. I have seen the racking system that was used on the Bakersfield project. The vintage used there had SEVERE problems with wire management. Absolute crap! Ground faults are common with that racking system. I have personally witnessed a system running with 8 amps of current on the ground using the same racking system. This was NOT on the Bakersfield site. Although I wasn't permitted to troubleshoot the problem, I was told that they had been chasing the ghost for several months. Ever since the initial installation. I have it from reliable sources that this condition is common and a known flaw in the design. At that time, their philosophy was that a ground fault is acceptable as long as there isn't enough current to trip the inverter offline. Central inverters commonly have up to a 10 amp GFP, so you can have one or more strings directly shorted and keep running. The concept that they kept installing systems with a known flaw like this is beyond acceptable. SunPower ultimately bears the greatest share of responsibility here. I do not know whether they have corrected the crappy wire management in that racking system since then or not. I certainly hope they have either corrected it or stopped using the system altogether. A comprehensive commissioning process would identify these problems and prevent the system from being placed into service. A visual inspection is the beginning of any commissioning process. As I said, I have seen these systems and they ain't pretty. Any schmuck can easily see numerous wires pulled across sharp-edges of sheet metal at various points throughout the array. Fail #1. Megger output jumpers... Fail #2. The concept that any building department has signed one of these systems off at all is mind-boggling. Another thing I find interesting... There was no mention of this condition in the fire investigation report. Only a recommendation to megger the remaining wires. What's up with that? How is it that so many of these systems have been installed and passed inspection? How many have caught fire that we haven't heard about? You know... Just a little fire. I would LOVE to know how much downtime has been logged because of this dangerous problem. And how much money has been spent troubleshooting and "fixing" faults caused by this problem. And how many "technicians" have been shocked during installation or service? One thing I can guarantee you... Unless you work inside the bowels of SunPower or this information comes out in a lawsuit somewhere, we will never know. Maybe WikiLeaks will have something on this someday. But I'm not holding my breath. For the record, I'm not a SunPower hater. I do hate crappy workmanship. I hate the practice of covering up crappy workmanship even more. You see, when you cover it up, it's just gonna keep happening. At least until somebody calls you on it. $0.02001 Solar Janitor From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Truitt Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 12:04 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Target fire Thanks William. That is the first place I looked but
Re: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps
Hi Benn: Why not use the standing seam roof's S-5 clips to attach rails to the roof, and then attach the inverters to the rail. I general install the rail on a standing seam roof, except for some small systems, because the layout requires it. It really depends on the width between seems. If the seams are 18" to 24" apart, then it can be difficult to mount the modules within the module's max overhang (which is often 15-16" or 1/4" of the module length.) Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: benn kilburn To: Wrenches Sent: Wed, October 20, 2010 8:06:33 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Mounting Enphase when using S-5-PV Clamps Mornin, I'm looking at mounting an Enphase M190 system on a standing seam metal roof and was considering using the S-5-PV clamps (as opposed to just the S-5's and L-feet), which do not use any mounting rails. No rails means no where to properly mount the M190's!?! It was suggested to mount the M190's to each module frame using a fashioned L-bracket, makes sense, but this would require drilling holes in the module frame, and wouldn't that void the module warranty? Also, am i the only one who is wondering if hanging a 4.4 pound inverter off of the module frame will potentially cause some sagging/deformation of the frame over the life of the system? Is this how those "andalay" modules support their inverters? thanks, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Protection against birds
During a recent service, I had to remove a few young pigeons by hand, which lived in a nest under the array. We installed chicken wire around the perimeter of the array, but I don't expect they would make a nest above the array, because that would be too exposed to predators and heat. I did find a nest of dead squirrels under an array, they chewed through the USE conductors and got fried. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Lee Bristol To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Mon, October 25, 2010 1:45:16 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Protection against birds Hi Wrenches, My prospect has an existing problem with birds (black birds, pigeons, and sparrows) nesting on their roof in every available nook and cranny. They are concerned about the birds soiling the modules. I have suggested putting a wire mesh around the array so that the birds can't get under the array and build nests. I am concerned about the nests that will be built along the top of the array on the wire mesh that I have so conveniently located for them. If there are too many nests then the air flow up and under the array could be compromised. Any thoughts? Possibly spikes along the top of array to discourage landing, pictures of cats, or warning signs - Birds-High Voltage go further South Thanks! Lee -- Lee Bristol NABCEP Certified Solar Designer/Installer Co-Founder & Commercial Channel Manager Standard Solar, Inc. 1355 Piccard Drive, #300 Rockville, MD 20850 (301) 944-5105 (240) 479-1510 (c) www.standardsolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] small offgrid pv kit
When I hear 'off-grid,' I assume there is no electric power on-site. I have had many people request 'off-grid systems' who have utility power already. I try to convince those people that the electric grid isn't a bad thing. Many of them want it for an idealistic reason, because it seems more 'Earth conscious.' I always explain to them that the environmental impacts of manufacturing and disposing of batteries is far worse for the environment than continuing to use the grid and installing grid-tied PV. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: William Miller To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, October 28, 2010 8:28:01 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] small offgrid pv kit August: Off-grid and battery back-up are redundant terms. If this is for an on-grid home wanting battery-back-up, the process of integration involves many aspects of an electrical remodel intercepting circuits, possibly installing a small load center in an existing structure). This requires an enhanced electrical skill set and may be even more unsuited for installation by a semi-skilled home owner than a battery-less grid-tie system. Kits are problematic in several regards: Every battery system we install is different in requirements and configuration from any other. The components are heavy and a pre-assembled back board can be quite heavy and difficult to handle. I discourage the "kit" approach for these reasons. If I have qualified home owners that want to participate, I suggest they do mechanical preparation, i.e. install plywood back-board, build battery box, set pole for TOP mount, dig trench, and, at most, run conduit , etc. We have found rocks inside home owner run conduit, so even this simple task requires some training- training which is hard to verify. William Miller At 07:44 AM 10/28/2010, you wrote: Hi Wrenches, > >I have a DIY client who is looking for a small $10 to $15k complete off grid >battery backup kit he can install himself. Email me off list if you have any >sources or thoughts. > >Thanks! > >-August >___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org > > >No virus found in this incoming message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 8.5.448 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3223 - Release Date: 10/27/10 >19:12:00 Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase warranties
Hi Drake: I just spoke with Enphase customer service about interconnecting the Enphase to a battery inverters back up load center, and they will not void the warranty for this. They only void the warranty for physically altering the inverters, like changing the connector types. (OOPS, I am guilty of that one.) Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Drake To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 10:14:55 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Charge Control in AC coupled system This is for an on grid system that would AC couple when the grid goes down. Would that still void the warranty? At 11:46 AM 10/29/2010, you wrote: Drake - fyi: you will void the warranty on the Enphase inverters. > >Andrew Truitt >Truitt Renewable Energy Consulting >202 486-7507 >http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-truitt/8/622/713 > >Please excuse brevity and typos - this message was typed on tiny keys. > > >On Oct 29, 2010 7:42 AM, "Drake" wrote: >> >>Greetings Wrenches, >> >>I want to AC couple 8 Enphase M190s to a pair of Outback inverters, stacked >>in >>split phase. The use of micro inverters could allow for great method of >>controlling charge to the batteries. A morning Star Relay Driver could be >>employed to disconnect one or more inverters at a time, to taper charge. >> >>Have any Wrenches AC coupled this many Enphase micro inverters to Outbacks? >>Have you had any problems? >> >>Thank you, >> >>Drake >> >> >> >> >> >>At 05:07 PM 10/28/2010, you wrote: >>> >>> We have done several of these systems with various invert... ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase warranties
I bet if you don't push the issue, they will cover the warranty. If the inverter is truly failed, I am sure that you won't have an issue. But since they are so reliable, that probably won't happen anyway. However, if you were to install them in an ''off-grid" application, you can't expect them to guarantee the performance, which is what a 'written' guarantee implies. I bet SMA won't provide a written guarantee that they will perform when coupled to an FX inverter, either. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Mark Frye To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 12:15:52 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase warranties Funny, Because I got off the phone with Ehphase customer service the other day and they told me that they would not warranty their inverter in any "off-grid" application. My inquiry was in the context of putting them under the back generator with a isolation switch in a grid-tie with back generator situation. Of course I push the question up past first tier support to the supervisor. I bet that if you ask them to put it in writing they will decline. Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Friday, October 29, 2010 12:03 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase warranties Hi Drake: I just spoke with Enphase customer service about interconnecting the Enphase to a battery inverters back up load center, and they will not void the warranty for this. They only void the warranty for physically altering the inverters, like changing the connector types. (OOPS, I am guilty of that one.) Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Are Thick Plate Batteries Worth the Price?
You generally pay for what you get. The industrial 2V cells generally cost more, but will last a lot longer (up to 25 yrs.) I think it depends on the customer's budget, and the long term plans for the property. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: "d...@foxfire-energy.com" To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 4:13:37 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Are Thick Plate Batteries Worth the Price? Hey Folks.. Been eying single string thick plate battery configurations.. Opinions? thanks db Dan Brown Foxfire Energy Corp. Renewable Energy Systems (802)-483-2564 www.Foxfire-Energy.com NABCEP #092907-44 > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Are Thick Plate Batteries Worth the Price?
Yes, in old cabin systems, but I would agree that it is rare. I have seen L-16s that lasted 13 years, but that is not common. I wouldn't say that it is typical, on the other hand, I have seen batteries that got killed in just a few years too. I would not tell a customer to expect 25 years from a battery bank, though. I tend to tell customers 3-7 years for T-105s, 7-10 years for L-16s, and 12-15 years for industrial 2Volts cells, such as C&D Technologies batteries. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: jay peltz To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, October 29, 2010 5:52:16 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Are Thick Plate Batteries Worth the Price? HI Nick, I gotta ask have you ever seen a battery last 25 years that wasn't in float and had to do some work, or even 15 years? jay peltz power On Oct 29, 2010, at 5:17 PM, Nick Soleil wrote: You generally pay for what you get. The industrial 2V cells generally cost more, but will last a lot longer (up to 25 yrs.) I think it depends on the customer's budget, and the long term plans for the property. > > Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell: 707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax: 707-769-9037 > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] warranty liabilities
Marco and Bob: I have replaced more than 70 bad US made modules, so I wouldn't jump right into stereotyping modules by the country. These warranty claims are time consuming, distracting, and can be costly. The amounts paid by the manufacturers of inverters and modules help cover the costs, but rarely cover all of our expenses. There are weeks that I spend half my time dealing with warranty issues. This is virtually all from product failures. I am finding that many modules are failing at 4+ years old. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Bob-O Schultze To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, November 1, 2010 10:56:44 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] warranty liabilities Marco, The only things on a battery-less PV system that carry a warranty are the modules and the inverter. The rest is pretty much on the installer to do a good job. Unless you are using 3C (Cheap Chinese Crap) modules, the probability of a failure is very small. Personally, I use an inverter which not only carries a 10 year warranty but the company will compensate me fairly for service calls where the inverter is at fault. Bob-O On Oct 31, 2010, at 4:32 PM, Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: In places like California, and other states as well I’m sure, a PV integrator needs to provide a bumper-to-bumper system warranty of what? 10 years. I’d like to know if many, or any, of you all put aside any money to cover your future warranty liabilities. (I don’t.) My belief is that we as an industry—at least as far as the large majority of us who are independent small companies—don’t have a clue when it comes to calculating what our present and future exposure is as far as warranty liability issues. Having gone through the boom and bust of the solar thermal business in CA. in the late 1970s and early 1980s, there were tons and tons of orphan systems that had been supposedly covered by warranties by companies that were long gone. Makes we wonder how close or far we are these days to a similar situation… marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Expected Life of SW Inverters
I have installed a few SW-4024 in Hawaii, 1/4 mile inland. Those units have had issues with Lizards, which required finer screens around all the openings and vents. These units have been installed for about 9 years, and we have had to replace one of them twice. We have seen some rusting and corrosion. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Keith Cronin To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, November 3, 2010 1:26:48 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Expected Life of SW Inverters William My SW4048 went through 3 boards from 98-04 until I retired it. Blowing salty air across a FET rail and mother board that is not conformal coated, created a perpetual triage environment. Sealed units or units that pull air out vs blowing them directly on their boards in a coastal environment will increase the likelihood of a longer service life. Alot of this experience birthed SMA's first generation inverters with the giant fins on the top, like my 2500 grid tied unit. Heat, salt and varying voltage, amperage and watts flowing into these devices surely contributes to their longevity as well. From: William Miller To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 6:51:11 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Expected Life of SW Inverters Friends: Speaking of life expectancy, has anyone had experience with SW inverters in a coastal environment? William Miller ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] enphase AC carrier length
Hi wrenches: One thing to keep in mind is that a 15 inverter string contains 78' of #14 just on the inverters output cables. Depending on the homerun length, it can be further. Additionally, you will have the AC run back to the distribution panel, and then the additional residential wiring (#12 or #14) to the jack nearest to the router. This can easily become 200' to 300' of wiring between the last inverter and the Envoy. However, steps can be taken to minimize the issues, and I have always found a resolution to my communication issues. Breaking the string into two 7-8 module parallel strings (and then paralleling them at a j-box) can reduce the distance and voltage drop from the Enphase inverter output cables. I have installed many systems that have had communication issues between the Envoy and the inverters. In the past, I have installed new receptacles or run CAT 5 from the Envoy to the router. That is time consuming, and there is a much easier way to deal with it. I have resolved most of my communication issues by installing the 'Ethernet Bridge' which is a 2nd power line carrier modem and its receiver. This product enables the Envoy to be located away from the router (and closer to the array.) The 'Ethernet Bridge' is a product offered by Enphase. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Drake To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, November 4, 2010 2:31:36 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] enphase AC carrier length I was told 300 feet by an Enphase Rep. We have a system that is at least that far from the Envoy. At 11:14 AM 11/4/2010, you wrote: >HI All, > >Is there a max length to the AC carrier signal for Enphase? > >I thought I did hear about a length, and in checking the website >could find no mention of it. > >Anybody know? > >thx, > >jay > >peltz power >___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SB Power during countdown
Hi Drake: I was recently troubleshooting a system with Sanyo 210s and an SB-4000US inverter. The installation worked most of the time, but would blow the 1A GFCI fuse when it rained, due to humiidity. Replacing the fuse would resolve the issue, until it rained again. Finding the fault was difficult, but with a megger tester, I was able to isolate the issue to the SB combiner box. When I connected the megger inside the combiner box, the test revealed a visible arc occuring on the surface of the SMA combiner box circuit board. The circuitboard had been damaged by the tip of a screw driver during installation. I had been called in to service the project after the original installer went out of business. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Drake To: gilliga...@gmail.com; RE-wrenches Sent: Sun, November 7, 2010 5:19:12 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SB Power during countdown Gilligan, Below is the data you asked for: A) Measure and Record DC Voltage between Positive and Negative (VOC).0.0 to 0.1 B) Measure and Record DC Voltage between Positive and Ground. 0.0 to 0.1 C) Measure and Record DC Voltage between Negative and Ground. 503 VDC No sign of rain. No evidence of a ground fault. If a fault exists, it is intermittent. The system worked fine for a week with the new inverter. Since it went down, I've done repeated checks and found no evidence of a fault. Fortunately the system is close by. There is one string of 10, Sanyo 210s. The installation is 9 months old. The only J-Box is in the attic and is dry and wired very cleanly. The system worked great until a few weeks ago. I will check the rotation of wheel on the meter again, when we get the GFP fuses in. I think the inverter was producing power. No Spark on the DC wires. Note: The first inverter did NOT blow the GFP fuse. I worked intermittently. Has anyone had problems with Sanyo modules faulting? Thanks, Drake ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Another PV fire
Was that fire isolated to the array, or did it spread to the building too? I have seen so many j-boxes were a connection has come loose, then arcs. This is particularly true of systems with wirenuts. If enough sunlight is present, and the wires begin to arc, then the arc could travel out of the box, and start a fire. I have serviced many modules that have failed, and found melted j-boxes and cables melted off the backs of panels. Recently, I pulled a module off of a roof, and nearly half the module's backing was blackened and charred. Many of those failures could have lead to a fire. We are all at risk of this happening. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Bill Brooks To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, November 11, 2010 10:06:10 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Another PV fire William, Apparently this fire was started by miswiring a combiner box. Most likely reverse polarity of a string or whole combiner box feeder at the inverter. Details to come. Bill. From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 8:21 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Another PV fire Colleagues: This is starting be more common. Below from our local paper: Rooftop solar panels catch fire at Meridian Winery east of Paso Robles Solar panels on a building at Meridian Winery east of Paso Robles caught fire Wednesday morning, according to Cal Fire.The panels were on the roof of the building where red wine is fermented. Firefighters are trying to see if the flames spread to other solar panels, but have to wait for the electricity to be turned off. Meridian Winery is located at 7000 Highway 46 East. The fire was reported at 10:25 a.m. William Miller Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] String Level Monitoring in Combiners
Hi Matt: If it were inexpensive and reliable, then it would be a good thing. Until it is, the clamp-on meter works for me. This ties into the conversations about burned up modules, which I frequently see on projects that I service. I find that most of the module failures occur due to overheating at the j-boxes. The failure of these contacts will often begin as an intermittent contact, and result to a melt down or burn out. These failures are causing such heat, that the glass frequently shatters. I have felt the glass getting as hot as a stove top, you could cook on it! Often times, these faillures will take out the whole string. These types of failures, or partial shading issues, can more quickly be spotted and addressed with string level monitoring. I have installed many Enphase systems, and I love being able to check all my projects outputs from my desk. I recently saw that one of my customer's modules wasn't producing power, I called him up, and he walked out to his ground mounted array. I asked if any weeds were shading the module, and he said, "Yes." He pulled the grass out, and the output of the modules returned to full power on the monitor. Those types of issues will go one for ever in systems with less detailed monitoring. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Matt Lafferty To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 11:35:36 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] String Level Monitoring in Combiners Hola Wrenches, The topic of string level monitoring keeps coming up in my circles. Personally, i think it's dumb in most non-R&D applications. Dumb is actually a little weak for how i really feel about it, but that's the word i'll use today. For the purpose of keeping it straight, i'm talking about real strings. Not to be confused with re-combiner inputs. i advocate mapping and monitoring all re-combiner inputs in central-inverter applications. Part of my perspective comes from the fact that monitoring string data inherently assumes that you are monitoring the system-level outputs anyway, and know how to evaluate that data. Any "benefit" of string-level monitoring must be over and above the benefits of monitoring without it. System outputs are what matter, right? So why focus on strings? What are you waiting for? Expecting something wierd to happen? Are you looking for binary information (On/Off) or comparative data from one string to the next? How do you account for instrumentation accuracy tolerances compared to module tolerances? Are you looking for trends, such as seasonal shading from one string to another? Or trends such as decreasing current in strings over time? Are you really gonna make a point of going back and normalizing point-in-time current measurements to point-in-time environmental conditions overlayed with point-in-time soiling data and comparing them? Really? And then what? "Gee, there's a 7% difference in normalized String 5 from the same 15-minute interval last year, George. Ya think we should go out and see if there's something wrong?" The real answer is, no. You and yours are not gonna go out there for that unless you are gluttons for punishment and don't have anything better to do. Or simply don't know better. Here' why: Unless there is some other sign of system output being off, it's not worth chasing the wild goose. If the system output is down from what it should be, you gotta go out and find the problem anyway. When you get there, you will follow these steps: A) Visual observation B) Data gathering from meters and displays C) Compare field observations and data to monitored data D) Determine whether or not there is actually a performance problem and begin troubleshooting if necessary E) Troubleshooting Step 1: Clamp individual string inputs at the combiner and compare to others. You gotta go thru these steps anyway. Whether or not you have string monitoring. So string monitoring doesn't save you a danged thing here. Now, i know you youngsters trust that monitoring thing, and are ready to jump right in the middle of String 5 and skip all that troubleshooting nonsense... Hey, your i-phoidberry said it was String 5, right? You go right ahead. Let me know how that works out for ya... Over time. No, silly... Not "overtime"... Two words. Over. Time. Actually, when it comes right down to it, i don't really care how it works out for you as much as i care how it works out for the customer and your boss. You're getting paid whether it works out or not. At least for awhile. The customer and your boss are most likely NOT getting paid if it doesn
Re: [RE-wrenches] Laing Solar Eco Pumps vs. El Sid
I have installed about a dozen Laing D-5 pumps in the last year, and have had good luck with them. Our thermal supplier includes the Laing pumps in all of their kits now, and stopped selling the El Sids a couple years back, due to reliability issues. I too have seen many El Sids fail. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Howie Michaelson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, November 29, 2010 12:59:13 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Laing Solar Eco Pumps vs. El Sid Hi All, I'm looking for feedback on the Laing EcoCirc Pumps for use in closed glycol PV driven SHW loops as well as closed loop off-grid hydronic heating loops (24 vDC battery systems or 12 vDC stepped down). Probably the D5 is the pump I'd use, but I'm open to any and all feedback. In particular, I'm looking for comparisons to El Sids. The Laings appear to have a stronger pump curve than the El Sids. I've used El Sids a fair amount for these applications and have had less than stellar results, as the El Sids often seem to have very short life spans. Dan F at El Sid suggests that they blow up due to high voltages, although he claims the 24 volt battery based pumps are good to 31 vDC and I've had them break at much lower voltages. I've also run the B12 pumps on a converter from BZ Products which was voltage limited (to 15 volts) - supposedly a safe voltage for the 12 volt battery based El Sid pumps (although Dan inferred at one point that voltage limited converters can have a higher voltage spike at start-up. I haven't ordered any over the last couple of years so I don't know if anything has changed, as I got tired of replacing them. Anyone have experience with the Laings in these circumstances? Or any similar or perhaps hopefully experience with the El Sids? At $2-300 a pop for the El Sids, I'm feeling gun-shy about spec'ing them any more. Thanks, Howie -- Howie Michaelson NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Sun Catcher, LLC Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner http://www.SunCatcherVT.com (cell) 802-272-0004 (home) 802-439-6096 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] To insulate a battery bank
Hello Wrenches:
I have always insulated my battery boxes (or the battery room). I have
built hundreds of battery boxes, and insulated them all with 1-1/2" rigid foam.
I have never seen the foam deteriorate, with 15+ years experience on many
sites. As you know, the capacity of the batteries is much lower when the
batteries get cold, so adding insulation will certainly improve the performance
of the battery.
Unfortunately, I have seen thermal runaway occur on one battery bank in
2002, but that was due to other circumstances. However, the insulation probably
didn't help the batteries cool, in that one instance. When I got to the site,
the generator had been running for 3 very hot days, continuously pumping
current
into DRY batteries that should have been flooded. The batteries had begun to
melt, and some had become blobs of maroon plastic. Those L-16s were only five
years old at the time.
Nick Soleil
Project Manager
Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC
PO Box 657
Petaluma, CA 94953
Cell: 707-321-2937
Office: 707-789-9537
Fax:707-769-9037
From: Allan Sindelar
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Sent: Fri, December 10, 2010 8:36:00 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] To insulate a battery bank
Bob,
Extruded polystyrene ("blueboard" or "pinkboard", depending on brand) is
designed for direct-burial use, and is unaffected by direct and continuous
contact with battery acid. It's also strong enough to directly support the
weight of the batteries. So it's a useful material to use, if you have need
of insulation.
I'll use it if an otherwise tempered space for the batteries has a cold
slab
or dirt floor, in order to inhibit long-term conductive heat loss.
Otherwise, I agree with the others here about the lack of benefit of
insulation in battery enclosures. Fundamentally, insulation just retards
the
rate of heat transfer from a warmer space to a cooler one. Batteries don't
generate significant heat at times when the heat is most needed, so they
will eventually maintain the same average temperature as their immediate
environment.
If batteries are directly exposed to sunlight through a window, insulation
is called for, to prevent the cells directly exposed to the sun's heat from
warming more than the shaded cells.
When asked, I recommend either putting batteries indoors (with proper
sealed
enclosure with controlled ventilation to the outdoors) or in a separate
insulated, sun-tempered space, such as a power shed, with passive solar
glazing and mass storage, but with no auxiliary heat. Of course, what works
here in the sunny Southwest wouldn't work as well in your region.
Allan
AllanSindelar
al...@positiveenergysolar.com
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Positive Energy, Inc.
3201 Calle Marie
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112
www.positiveenergysolar.com
On 12/10/2010 4:32 AM, bob ellison wrote:
>With the amount of lead in a battery bank it changes temperature
>very slowly. Both gaining and losing heat is a very slow process.
>I have never insulated battery banks, if in a cold area like
>here
>we size them larger for the slower reaction time in the
>
>winter anyway. Part of the reason being that I would bet that
>the
>acid would raise hell with the insulation!
>
>We regularly see battery banks that are 40 degrees or so it
>presents no problem.
>If the exhaust fan is running in a 70 degree building all it
>does
>is draw the warm air over the top of the battery and not really
>warm them much anyway, in an unheated building it will probably
>
>not make much difference.
>The only way that I would put insulation in an unheated battery
>box is on the outside of the plywood, away from the acid and
>gasses. I would also make it removable in the summer.
>
>No virus found in this message.
>Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>Version: 10.0.1170 / Virus Database: 426/3305 - Release Date: 12/09/10
> ___ List sponsored by Home Power
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>participant
>bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
_
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace TM500
Ralph is great treasure and Bogart Engineering is one of a kind. That is the only company in the world where the owner/engineer answers the phone everytime, ready to help you solve your needs. Thanks Ralph! Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Howie Michaelson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tue, December 14, 2010 9:37:28 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace TM500 Hi Phil, I can see how that might cause problems so I will try that fix. While I'm not sure how higher resistance would cause the lack of resetting the amphours back down to zero from the "positive" territory it can go into during the charging cycles, I have certainly seen lots of funny behavior with the TM500, specifically caused by the shunt board sitting on top of the shunt. [Rant warning] Xantrex's explanation (as best I can remember it from several years back) was that having part of the processor on the shunt board attached to the shunt allowed for high frequency signals to confuse the C40 and shut it off. It appeared that it was only an issue with 48 volt systems. Not sure they ever fixed the problem, other than telling folks who knew to ask that they should remove either the C40 or the TM500. It took me about 8 months and many visit to the remote site and dozens of calls to Xantrex for them to finally allow for the fact that there was a problem, and the engineers that were aware of it hadn't even informed tech support about the potential issue for several months. One reason why I don't touch Xantrex any more... [End Rant] And thanks Alan, calling Ralph might be helpful - in fact he was who helped me begin to figure out what was happening with the TM500 and C40 when Xantrex was not owning up to anything... Howie -- Howie Michaelson NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Sun Catcher, LLC Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner http://www.SunCatcherVT.com (cell) 802-272-0004 (home) 802-439-6096 On Tue, December 14, 2010 11:30 am, Phil Undercuffler wrote: > The biggest difference between the two meters is the TM500 uses a RJ11 > plug > and telephone style cable between a shunt board and the meter. Since > amphour meters work by measuring voltage drop across the shunt my guess > would be that the meter has lost connectivity to the shunt, probably > through > those pinche connectors. Higher resistance = lower voltage measured = > decreased current flow recorded. Any oxidation or corrosion of the tiny > little pins will create inaccurate readings. > > Try wiggling the connectors and repeatedly plugging and unplugging them at > both ends, and see if that clears up the issue. If that works, put a dab > of > silicone grease on the connectors to minimize chances of it happening > again. > > > Phil Undercuffler > > > > > > On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 10:53 PM, Howie Michaelson > wrote: > >> Hi All, >> >> In the past 2 months, I've had 2 separate clients with 48 volt SW >> systems >> have their TM500 stop resetting amphours - even after there is no >> current >> flowing into the bank for hours. The meter never goes below "0" amp >> hours >> and always shows "Full" SOC. These are TM500s that have behaved >> properly >> (at least in that way) for years. Anyone else ever seen this? Another >> time bomb? Any fix other than replacing with a Trimetric 2020. I've >> seen >> bizarre behavior from the TM500 before, in a 48 volt system setting up >> some high frequencies which effectively shut down the C40 on the system, >> but haven't seen this anomaly before these 2 systems... >> >> Thanks, >> Howie >> -- >> Howie Michaelson >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ >> >> Sun Catcher, LLC >> Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service >> VT Solar & Wind Incentive Program Partner >> http://www.SunCatcherVT.com >> (cell) 802-272-0004 >> (home) 802-439-6096 >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Options & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> > _
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery based hydrogen incidents
Robb Cary was dealing with a lot of large scale telecomm systems with C&D Technologies, so his scary photos were probably not from solar projects, (if that is any comfort!) He spoke of some projects with 50,000 2V industrial cells. I have worked with him for a long time and served on the board of Solar Sebastopol with him 5-6 years ago. I too have lost touch. I tried to reach him four or five years ago but his office said that he was retired and his cell number was disconnected. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Darryl Thayer To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, December 15, 2010 9:14:15 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery based hydrogen incidents Yes they happen, Robb Cary of Battery Testing Co. has some frightening photos. I have lost contact with him however. I have had an experiance, but I did not take pictures. When you find the top of the battery and or battery enclousure blowen to smitherens it was a hydrogen explosion. Sorry I am on road today, would love to comment more. maybe later Darryl --- On Wed, 12/15/10, Warren Lauzon wrote: >From: Warren Lauzon >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery based hydrogen incidents >To: "RE-wrenches" >Date: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 11:05 AM > > > >In the 30+ years that we have been in the solar business, we have never seen >or >even heard of a single one. > >From: Dana >Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 9:10 AM >To: 'RE-wrenches' >Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery based hydrogen incidents > Ken – > >To meet the flow have run 2 and 3 fans to meet the flow. 2” output from the >fan >into a 4” header with a matching 2.5” inlet as far away on the lowest portion >of >the battery box. > > >In 22+ years in off grid installations I have yet to see or even hear of one >hydrogen explosion. I get repeatedly asked why we have to go to the efforts we >go to for box and venting. I am not able to provide even one incident that I >have heard rumor of. > > >Q - How many battery based hydrogen incidents have happened in our collective >experience? > > > > >Dana Orzel >Great Solar Works, Inc >E - d...@solarwork.com >V - 970.626.5253 >F - 970.626.4140 >C - 970.209.4076 >web - www.solarwork.com > >"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >Do not ever belive anything, but seriously trust through action. > >From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent Osterberg >Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 12:07 PM >To: Wrenches >Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Venting > >Fellow Wrenches, > >The discussion about battery venting reminds me of a useful and inexpensive >program, BattMV, for determining ventilation requirements per EN-50272. >EN-50272 is a European standard used to determine how much air flow is needed >for a room, I don't know of a equivalent standard used in the U.S. It takes a >surprising amount of ventilation. For a 400-AH 48-volt L16 bank charged at >57.6 >volts and 24 amps, it's about 7 CFM just to keep the %H2 down to 4%. A >12-volt >Zephyr vent is good for about 5 CFM! If you think you are venting enough, >take >some time and study this issue. > >Kent Osterberg >Blue Mountain Solar > ___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org > > >Northern Arizona Wind & Sun - Electricity from the sun since 1979 > >Online Solar Store >Free Solar Discussion Forum > >-Inline Attachment Follows- > > >___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >ww
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV On Corrugated Metal Roof on Steel Building
I like to bolt through the structural member, but have used toggles in some applications. Of course, you need to download the structural specifications and confirm that the toggles are robust enough for the application. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Jason Szumlanski To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, December 22, 2010 11:25:08 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV On Corrugated Metal Roof on Steel Building That’s a good point about the scaffolding. I was thinking about a SnapNRack corrugated bracket bolted through the purlins. 5/16 Tek screws to fit the bracket may be the way to go – I’ll get the engineer to look at it. I’m hoping to minimize penetrations, yet meet the 130 mph wind speed. Based on the pictures I was provided, it looks like the roof will handle the load… we’ll see. Thanks for the tip. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Allan Sindelar Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 12:47 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV On Corrugated Metal Roof on Steel Building Jason, We have installed to similar buildings using #14 tek screws. If you look into their rated pullout strength, you'll find that the large gauges have surprising pullout resistance in purlins. And no interior scaffolding is required. Allan AllanSindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com On 12/22/2010 10:01 AM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: We are working on a contract to put PV on a steel building with a corrugated metal roof. The corrugated metal is not a problem – we have solutions for that. I am wondering about how to best attach to the structural members. For an idea of what we are up against, see: http://www.fafcosolar.com/download/349/IMG_0828.JPG Any suggestions for attachment methods? Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] XW config tool
Hi Jay: I recently upgraded the software on a large XW system with 3 inverters, an MX-60, controller, and a Gen Start Module. Schneider mailed me the adapter cable, and everything worked great. You have to upgrade the software to all XW components if you are going to upgrade the AGS software. The upgrade took about 40 minutes for my 6 components. Make sure that your laptop battery is charged, because you have to turn off the inverters during the upgrade. It would be slick to bypass the utility or generator power to the site during the service. If the laptop turns off during the upgrade, it can be really bad, because it can result in having to pull the inverters off the wall and sending them back for service!) I can't believe that the original AGS software did not support 2-wire start! The wiring harness has 13 different wires for a multitude of gen start methods, but they forget the most fundamental one! How does that happen? Gen starting shouldn't be so complicated. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: jay peltz To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 10:20:54 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] XW config tool HI All, Any advice about using the XW config tool? I've got to update an AGS module and the SCP I have the tool already, really nice having to buy it. thanks in advance, jay Peltz Power ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Working on DIY systems and Junkers
I don't mind servicing older, existing systems. It is fun to work with the older components, like APT power panels, SW inverters, and Trimetric monitors. I will frequently bust out the solder gun and repair old modules and components. On most of these systems, I will recommend upgrading some components, and will replace unprotected wiring. If something is a hazard, then I will repair it. I find that grounding systems tend to be the weakest link, and generally need to be replaced or repaired. Overall, I have been lucky to have reasonable customers who want their systems to be safe. Well, there was that one guy who was running his genny with the gas cap off, which started a grass fire just as I was pulling up Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: R Ray Walters To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, January 13, 2011 2:27:09 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Working on DIY systems and Junkers We've taken many of these on over the years: it can have a satisfying outcome, if the customer is really willing to pay to fix it. We don't even try to work with what's there; everything comes off the wall, and we rebuild the whole system using any decent parts that can be reused. Most customers report much more reliable operation after, but you still can't find everything. I try to stay out of the premises distribution wiring, and keep the work just to the PV, batteries, inverter, etc. This keeps it clear what you're responsible for, and what you're not. If pulling a permit, I write it up to specifically exclude distribution wiring. These days, I only take them on, if they are essentially buying a new system (batteries, more PV, inverter, or charge controller upgrade.) I often sell them a whole new power board, and offer a trade-in on their old usable equipment. Even reusing old PV is getting harder these days (rewiring an old array of 50 watt modules, often just isn't worth the time) Unless you've done several of these, I'd stay clear of them. There are easier ways to make a living. GridTie has fewer call backs, by far. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 13, 2011, at 3:08 PM, jay peltz wrote: Yes to all what Dana says. > >I've had one good friend who will only work on such projects if hes allowed to >do. > > >1. fix any and everything that needs to be, and yes its going to cost. >otherwise he walks away. > > >and > > >2. he still has them sign a contract that says hes not responsible for things >hes not touched or some such legalese. >IE wire in walls etc. > > >Its a very scary part, as if there is a problem, they will sue you first >regardless as you were the last to touch it. > > >One almost horror story, I had added some solar to a system. I didn't fix all >that could have been. >To make a long story shorter, the house burned down (a month after I had >worked >on it) and it started near the electrical room. Turns out it was arson, but I >didn't sleep well for a few days, until I knew that. > > >CYA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >On Jan 13, 2011, at 1:26 PM, Dana wrote: > >DONOT assume anything! >> >>Photograph. >>Draw schematics. >>Specific gravity test. >>Do wire pull tests. >>Check tightness on all connections. >>Verify voltage and polarity. >>Wire calc every wire. >>Measure distances. >>Double check. >> >>Get paid for this , you did not create this mess. >> >> >>Dana Orzel >>Great Solar Works, Inc >>E - d...@solarwork.com >>V - 970.626.5253 >>F - 970.626.4140 >>C - 970.209.4076 >>web - www.solarwork.com >> >>"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" >>Do not ever believe anything, but seriously trust through action. >> ___ >>List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >>List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >>Options & settings: >>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >>List-Archive: >>http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >> >>List rules & etiquette: >>www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >>Check out participant bios: >>www.members.re-wrenches.org >> >> >___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/
Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals
Hi Kelly: Are you sure about the XHHW listing. Doesn't that designate aluminum wire? You mentioned CU before. I have seen some discolloration from copper wire against module frames, but not real corrosion. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: "Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind" To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 3:06:09 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals Scott, 300.3(2) allows grounding and bonding conductors to be outside of a raceway. See 250.134(B), exception 2. Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. Principal Whidbey Sun & Wind Renewable Energy Systems NABCEP Certified PV Installer WA Electrical Administrator 987 Wanamaker Rd. Coupeville, WA 98239 ke...@whidbeysunwind.com PH & FAX: 360.678.7131 On Jan 14, 2011, at 2:51 PM, Scott McCalmont wrote: 300.3(A) prohibits the use of XHHW outside of a recognized wiring method, which means you need a conduit or raceway. You can use USE-2 in an exposed outdoor location only because 690.31(B) allows it, but only for module interconnections. > >Scott > >On Jan 14, 2011, at 11:45 AM, Kelly Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind wrote: > > >Peter, >> Yes the #10 XHHW (2) we use is green-jacketed, and 90˚ rated. We get it through our local electrical supply house. > > Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. > Whidbey Sun & Wind > Renewable Energy Systems > ke...@whidbeysunwind.com > 360-678-7131 > > > > > On Jan 14, 2011, at 11:04 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: > > Great idea Kelly! I didn't know one could get green jacketed USE or XHHW. Do >> you have a source? Also, do you think that we might need wire rated "-2" for >> 90 deg C wet locations. I know that this is not a current carrying >> conductor, but roof tops are definitely 90 deg C wet environments. Your >> thoughts? >> >> - Peter >> >> >> Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President >> California Solar Engineering, Inc. >> 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 >> CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 >> peter.parr...@calsolareng.com >> Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >> [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kelly >> Keilwitz, Whidbey Sun & Wind >> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2011 10:14 AM >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Incompatible Metals >> >> Peter, >> I have never understood the common practice of using bare copper >> ground wire on and against aluminum frames and modules. It always has >> been a dissimilar metals issue. Just look anywhere copper has set >> against aluminum for awhile. >> We use #10 green jacketed Cu USE or XHHW conductor and strip away the >> jacket at each lug, using No-Ox on that section of bare wire at the >> lug. The wire can be tucked in to the module frames and with the PV >> conductors. >> >> Kelly Keilwitz, P.E. >> Whidbey Sun & Wind >> Renewable Energy Systems >> ke...@whidbeysunwind.com >> 360-678-7131 >> >> >> >> >> On Jan 14, 2011, at 7:36 AM, Peter Parrish wrote: >> >> One of my students who is currently responsible for standing for >>> inspection >>> at their company encountered a inspector who made an interesting >>> point about >>> incompatible metals (i.e. copper and anodized aluminum). >>> >>> The PV system in question used outdoor rated lay-in lugs to bond the >>> rails >>> to bare copper wire (so far so good). The ground wire was then zip- >>> tied to >>> the rail to carry it to the point where it entered a junction box >>> along with >>> the rest of the PV conductors. >>> >>> The inspector was concerned with the fact that the bare copper was in >>> contact with the aluminum rails and that this might cause galvanic >>> corrosion >>> and subsequent failure of the grounding. >>> >>> I have never encountered this issue before and I wonder if anyone >>> else has >>> and what was the outcome. >>> >>> As an aside: I do know that 10 AWG and 12 AWG solid bare copper >>> wire can be >>> purchased "pre-tinned" (maybe not tin per se, but coated). We did so >>> by >>> mistake. We used it up, but not before one inspector questioned its >>> use for >>> the purpose of grounding our sy
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and oversizing
Enphase has been very clear that the M-190 can be paired with modules up to 230 watts DC, with a slight amount of power loss Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Randy To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sun, January 16, 2011 2:35:27 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and oversizing Hi Marco, I would doubt you would have clipping where you except for edge of cloud effect but here are that factors that we considered: 1.A low coefficient of power module such as sanyo or thin film running at lower temperatures would mean the module runs closer to its rating depending on ambient temperature 2. In cold, high altitude areas such as Colorado and NM where the module temp frequently is close to 25 degree C 3. In ground mount or windy situations where the delta T to ambient is very small (might apply to you) 4. Where irradiance is regularly running above 1000W/m2 and the array is mounted on a tracker or when there is snow on the ground and albedo is reflecting more sunlight. We have seen output clipping of any inverter that is rated less than the module STC DC watts in NM including enphase. Thanks, Randy Randy Sadewic Positive Energy Office: 505 424-1112 Cell:505 570-0137 From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent Osterberg Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 6:13 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase and oversizing Marco, Enphase has a white paper on this topic that seems consistent with observations. The results depend on the roof and the location. But even on a 12:12 roof in Denver they compute less than 0.6% annual loss with new clean 235-watt modules. I've looked for clipping events on systems with Sharp 235-watt modules that I've installed on 4:12 roofs and haven't seen much - rarely are they even near 199 watts for a few minutes. Obviously it'll be more significant with larger modules like the SW 245, but I doubt that occasional clipping that amounts to less than 1% of the possible annual output should be characterized as wasting the customer's money. That much can be lost in selecting a different inverter. I suspect and hope that a larger inverter is in the works. But in the mean time I see putting 245-watt modules on the 190-watt inverters as working the inverter hard. Would you hesitate to put 2400 watts of PV modules on a 2-kW inverter? Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. Marco Mangelsdorf wrote: To those of you installing Enphases. Other than their 210 only working with Sanyo and SunPower modules, the vast majority of other mods only work with the Enphase 190. Question: what’s the max size module that you’re comfortable using with the Enphase 190? In there here parts I’m seeing competitors pairing the Enphase 190 with modules in the 230+ watt range. Some are even pairing the 190 with the SolarWorld 245. Talk about wasting the customer’s money…. This strikes me as a bad design that essentially has the homeowner throwing away some of his/her money on unused PV horsepower. Here in the tropics, where the edge-of-cloud effect can be seen on a regular basis, I see DC nameplate AND higher coming out on the AC side of my systems. I’m wondering where others are on this question of oversizing. Thanks, marco ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Operating Cost
I have seen some 10 and 12 KW Kohler RZ gennys get ~16,000 hours. Those are water cooled units, of course. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Darryl Thayer To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tue, January 18, 2011 6:39:43 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator Operating Cost I do not have a lot of experiance but for back up commerical generatoers, but on smaller generators, 5 to 10 kW top end overhaul 1000 hours max, total 3000 hours Medium size 50 to 150 kW top end 2000 hours total overhaul 8 to 10,000 hours. Big engines 4 to 5000 hrs for top end and bottom end up to 20,000 hours - Original Message From: Kent Osterberg To: Wrenches Sent: Tue, January 18, 2011 5:06:28 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Generator Operating Cost Fellow wrenches, Anyone have some information, perhaps a spreadsheet, showing the cost to operate a generator? How many hours should one expect a water-cooled propane generator to operate before overhaul or retirement? 25,000? How many hours should one expect a water-cooled diesel generator to operate before overhaul or retirement? 40,000? Thanks. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter oversizing
This is very interesting. I think a lot of us already oversize inverters to reduce wear and tear, and to operate the inverter closer to its peak efficiency. This is another good reason. What will it take to get more data on this subject. What percentage of the annual radiation is occuring over 1000 w/m^2 in our local regions? Who is collecting 1 minute data? If we could capture .5% of the annual power on a 5 KW AC system, and the system cost $42,000. That would be valued about $210 upfront, but even more over the life of the system. That increased value would just pay for the increased cost of the inverter. It is probably a smart decision, as long as the increased inverter size doesn't increase the system cost significantly, by requiring a supply side tap, a service panel upgrade, or other major upgrades to the system.. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Bill Brooks To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, January 19, 2011 4:33:00 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter oversizing David, Good question, but difficult to answer. The basic rule in electronics is that every 10C hotter that we run something continuously, the overall life is cut in half. Conversely, if we run inverters cooler, they should last longer. The difficult question is how much to oversize the inverter to get a 10C temperature drop continuously. Not easy to answer. Also, heat is not the only killer of an inverter. Line surges and lightning surges are probably bigger inverter killers. And then there is engineering design. More inverters have died prematurely for design and quality control reasons than any other failure type. The final answer is 42. Bill. From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Dave Palumbo Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 3:55 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter oversizing Bill, In addition to power production losses due to arrays that are oversized for the inverter (although within manufacturers specs) how concerned should we be with shorter inverter service life because the inverter is working at its maximum? David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 6:20 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter oversizing Kent, The article that David Brearley cited is a very good discussion on this subject. It clearly shows the under-prediction of losses due to hitting the inverter peak power capability when using longer-term data. This study was done by the Fraunhofer Institute in southern Germany. They get a lot more clouds there so the results might be comparable to some of the more cloudy regions of the United States. I would expect the results to be worse in much of the U.S. that gets clouds and higher irradiation than Freiburg. However, the results will definitely be less for much of California since clouds don’t happen for sections of the year. It all matters where you are. Great discussion. Bill. From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kent Osterberg Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 1:41 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter oversizing Bill, The data are 15 minute averages so I'm sure that some edge of cloud events are washed out in the average. The energy they contributed was in the total measurement, but wouldn't have been included in my sum of clipped output. Observing the data, you can see some edge of cloud effects despite the 15 minute averaging. And on many days I suspect there is edge of cloud effect that wouldn't have hit the clipping limit too. Obviously, missing some short interval events biases the results a little but probably not by very much. For the sake of argument assume that there was a 3 minute, spike in output 100-watts above my threshold setting. In the 15-minute average that still would have been a 20-watt bump and with 10-watt data resolution, it probably would have showed up, but say it didn't show up or that it end up just below the threshold. Say this happened once every week, not likely, but if it did the missed data would amount to 0.25 kWhr or about 5% as much as the total observed with the data clipped at 800 watts. So you have to really stretch the brief edge of cloud argument to integrate enough energy to throw my graph off by very much. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain S
Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips
William: Your diagram is one way to do it, in fact, I always divide my circuits into 2 sub-circuits, to minimize voltage drop on the Enphase wiring, and then parallel the sub-circuits at the j-box. However, there is a value to having a male cable. They can simplify some installations, such as the situation that Eric described. As mentioned before, the extension cable can be cut, and the other end is used as a standard whip. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: William Miller To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 6:22:33 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips Eric: You connect the factory provided termination kit to the Enphase array on each roof. All of the Enphase inverters on one array do not need to be in a daisy configuration. I have attached a drawing hat should illustrate William Miller 805-440-5161 Cell At 11:06 AM 1/20/2011, you wrote: I know its a funny title butwhy doesn't EnPhase make whips with male connectors? We are having trouble laying out a system with multiple sub arrays. We need to cable to sub arrays that are on different roof planes in order to make up our circuits. From 5 micros on roof one, into attic, out of SolaDeck on roof two, grab 3 more micros, back into SolaDeck, into attic for home run. The whip from the SolDeck to the last 3 micros needs to be male... any suggestions? EnPhase does not want us to cut an extension that has connectors on both ends... > >Thanks, >Eric Thomas >Solar Epiphany >Seattle >___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org > >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 10.0.1191 / Virus Database: 1435/3393 - Release Date: 01/20/11 Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips
Sorry Kent: I am just not that motivated by this conversation to create drawings. I will try to explain one of the times when I choose to use the male cable. The site had 28 modules on one roof, but due to fire access walkways, and limited space, we had to place on module on a different roof. The main array was on a roof with skylights that broke up the rows of modules, so our Enphase strings travelled along the peak of the roof, then down to a lower row, then back up to the row by the peak (with a gap in the top row.) The end of that 8 module sub-circuit was located across the hip, and 15' from a single module that did not fit on the main roof. So at the end of the 8 modules we wanted a male cable, so that we could tie the end of the string into a j-box, transition to 3/4" conduit and then run to the other roof, where we could use a female whip to pick up the single module. We did not want to have to run 40' of conduit and wire for the one module, which would have had to jog down to the middle row and back up to stay under the modules, and would have had to cross rails. The other option would have been to use an extension cable (assuming that the 15' cable was long enough), but that would have required a 1-1/4" emt chase between the roofs to fit the extension cable end. With bends in the conduit, we question if we would even need a 1-1/2" chase. We decided to cut the extension ends, and transition to conduit in between. Essentially, this was just an extension cable, with 3/4" conduit and 2 j-boxes in the middle of it. I guess you could argue that we never need just a male cable, because we will always need a female on the other end. That is why I am not really complaining about the lack of male cable options, because the Enphase extension cable is a good solution. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Kent Osterberg To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 11:20:18 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips Nick, Could you post a diagram showing when a male whip is useful? I'm having a really hard time envisioning a need for one. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. Nick Soleil wrote: William: >Your diagram is one way to do it, in fact, I always divide my circuits > into >2 sub-circuits, to minimize voltage drop on the Enphase wiring, and then >parallel the sub-circuits at the j-box. However, there is a value to having a >male cable. They can simplify some installations, such as the situation that >Eric described. As mentioned before, the extension cable can be cut, and the >other end is used as a standard whip. >Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell: 707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax: 707-769-9037 > > > > > From: William Miller >To: RE-wrenches >Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 6:22:33 PM >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips > >Eric: > >You connect the factory provided termination kit to the Enphase array on each >roof. All of the Enphase inverters on one array do not need to be in a daisy >configuration. > >I have attached a drawing hat should illustrate > > >William Miller >805-440-5161 Cell > > > >At 11:06 AM 1/20/2011, you wrote: > > >I know its a funny title butwhy doesn't EnPhase make whips with male >connectors? We are having trouble laying out a system with multiple sub >arrays. >We need to cable to sub arrays that are on different roof planes in order to >make up our circuits. From 5 micros on roof one, into attic, out of SolaDeck >on >roof two, grab 3 more micros, back into SolaDeck, into attic for home run. The >whip from the SolDeck to the last 3 micros needs to be male... any >suggestions? >EnPhase does not want us to cut an extension that has connectors on both >ends... >> >>Thanks, >>Eric Thomas >>Solar Epiphany >>Seattle >> >> Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Fw: EnPhase male whips
Sorry about the typo. The second sentence should have read: The site had 28 modules on one roof, but due to fire access walkways, and limited space, we had to place one module on a different roof. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 - Forwarded Message From: Nick Soleil To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 12:45:06 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips Sorry Kent: I am just not that motivated by this conversation to create drawings. I will try to explain one of the times when I choose to use the male cable. The site had 28 modules on one roof, but due to fire access walkways, and limited space, we had to place on module on a different roof. The main array was on a roof with skylights that broke up the rows of modules, so our Enphase strings travelled along the peak of the roof, then down to a lower row, then back up to the row by the peak (with a gap in the top row.) The end of that 8 module sub-circuit was located across the hip, and 15' from a single module that did not fit on the main roof. So at the end of the 8 modules we wanted a male cable, so that we could tie the end of the string into a j-box, transition to 3/4" conduit and then run to the other roof, where we could use a female whip to pick up the single module. We did not want to have to run 40' of conduit and wire for the one module, which would have had to jog down to the middle row and back up to stay under the modules, and would have had to cross rails. The other option would have been to use an extension cable (assuming that the 15' cable was long enough), but that would have required a 1-1/4" emt chase between the roofs to fit the extension cable end. With bends in the conduit, we question if we would even need a 1-1/2" chase. We decided to cut the extension ends, and transition to conduit in between. Essentially, this was just an extension cable, with 3/4" conduit and 2 j-boxes in the middle of it. I guess you could argue that we never need just a male cable, because we will always need a female on the other end. That is why I am not really complaining about the lack of male cable options, because the Enphase extension cable is a good solution. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Kent Osterberg To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 11:20:18 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips Nick, Could you post a diagram showing when a male whip is useful? I'm having a really hard time envisioning a need for one. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. Nick Soleil wrote: William: >Your diagram is one way to do it, in fact, I always divide my circuits > into >2 sub-circuits, to minimize voltage drop on the Enphase wiring, and then >parallel the sub-circuits at the j-box. However, there is a value to having a >male cable. They can simplify some installations, such as the situation that >Eric described. As mentioned before, the extension cable can be cut, and the >other end is used as a standard whip. >Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell: 707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax: 707-769-9037 > > > > > From: William Miller >To: RE-wrenches >Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 6:22:33 PM >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips > >Eric: > >You connect the factory provided termination kit to the Enphase array on each >roof. All of the Enphase inverters on one array do not need to be in a daisy >configuration. > >I have attached a drawing hat should illustrate > > >William Miller >805-440-5161 Cell > > > >At 11:06 AM 1/20/2011, you wrote: > > >I know its a funny title butwhy doesn't EnPhase make whips with male >connectors? We are having trouble laying out a system with multiple sub >arrays. >We need to cable to sub arrays that are on different roof planes in order to >make up our circuits. From 5 micros on roof one, into attic, out of SolaDeck >on >roof two, grab 3 more micros, back into SolaDeck, into attic for home run. The >whip from the SolDeck to the last 3 micros needs to be male... any >suggestions? >EnPhase does not want us to cut an extension that has connectors on both >ends... >> >>Thanks, >>Eric Thomas >>Solar Epiphany >>Seattle >> >> Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@miller
Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips
Hi Kent: My Enphase tech support guy didn't mention that restriction when we discussed it. Of course, the fact that the male could never be hot while unplugged ensures that the application is safe. I do understand why they don't provide the male; so that it is never used as the homerun cable back to the utility power. Mahalo Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Kent Osterberg To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 1:36:57 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips Thanks, Nick. So you are continuing a daisy chain of inverters across a required clear space or obstruction that necessitates a change of wiring method. As you said, you end up needing both the male and female whips. So cutting an extension yields both pieces that are needed. And there are other options too. It does still make sense that Enphase doesn't endorse cutting the extension for that purpose. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. Nick Soleil wrote: Sorry Kent: >I am just not that motivated by this conversation to create drawings. I >will try to explain one of the times when I choose to use the male cable. The >site had 28 modules on one roof, but due to fire access walkways, and limited >space, we had to place on module on a different roof. The main array was on a >roof with skylights that broke up the rows of modules, so our Enphase strings >travelled along the peak of the roof, then down to a lower row, then back up >to >the row by the peak (with a gap in the top row.) The end of that 8 module >sub-circuit was located across the hip, and 15' from a single module that did >not fit on the main roof. So at the end of the 8 modules we wanted a male >cable, so that we could tie the end of the string into a j-box, transition to >3/4" conduit and then run to the other roof, where we could use a female whip >to >pick up the single module. We did not want to have to run 40' of conduit and >wire for the one module, which would have had to jog down to the middle row >and >back up to stay under the modules, and would have had to cross rails. The >other >option would have been to use an extension cable (assuming that the 15' cable >was long enough), but that would have required a 1-1/4" emt chase between the >roofs to fit the extension cable end. With bends in the conduit, we question >if >we would even need a 1-1/2" chase. We decided to cut the extension ends, and >transition to conduit in between. >Essentially, this was just an extension cable, with 3/4" conduit and 2 >j-boxes in the middle of it. I guess you could argue that we never need just >a >male cable, because we will always need a female on the other end. That is >why >I am not really complaining about the lack of male cable options, because the >Enphase extension cable is a good solution. > > > Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell: 707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax: 707-769-9037 > > > > > From: Kent Osterberg >To: RE-wrenches >Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 11:20:18 AM >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips > >Nick, > >Could you post a diagram showing when a male whip is useful? I'm having a >really hard time envisioning a need for one. > >Kent Osterberg >Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. > > >Nick Soleil wrote: >William: >>Your diagram is one way to do it, in fact, I always divide my circuits >> into >>2 sub-circuits, to minimize voltage drop on the Enphase wiring, and then >>parallel the sub-circuits at the j-box. However, there is a value to having >>a >>male cable. They can simplify some installations, such as the situation >>that >>Eric described. As mentioned before, the extension cable can be cut, and the >>other end is used as a standard whip. >>Nick Soleil >>Project Manager >>Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC >>PO Box 657 >>Petaluma, CA 94953 >>Cell: 707-321-2937 >>Office: 707-789-9537 >>Fax: 707-769-9037 >> >> >> >> >> From: William Miller >>To: RE-wrenches >>Sent: Thu, January 20, 2011 6:22:33 PM >>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] EnPhase male whips >> >>Eric: >> >>You connect the factory provided termination kit to the Enphase array on each >>roof. All of the Enphase inverters on one array do not need to be in a daisy >>con
Re: [RE-wrenches] Male Whip follow-up
Hello Eric: Would you please provide a reference to the literature where Enphase says, "using a cut extension cable will void the warranty of the entire installation." I didn't see anything in the installation manual. Also, Enphase did recommend the application to me. It was actually pretty easy to make the connections without 'crossing phases.' Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Eric Thomas To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 10:29:08 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Male Whip follow-up As a (serious) side note, EnPhase says using a cut extension cable will void the warranty of the entire installation. This is due to the inconsistant color coding of the extension cables and whips. The danger of crossing phases within the same circuit. Best (and only acceptable) practice is to parallel sub arrays. Eric ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider recall
My list is over 100 inverters so far, and I have only got 2-3 years of jobs processed. Getting together all the serial numbers is taking some time. I am glad this recall didn't happen during the end-of-year rush. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Peter Parrish To: glenn.b...@glbcc.com; RE-wrenches Sent: Tue, January 25, 2011 10:43:00 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Schneider recall I believe that Schneider will send PB board swap-out kits to installers and compensate installers for the swap-out. We are putting together a list of all the GT inverters that we have installed since 2002 and will ask for enough to cover the list, and if we have extra kts left over, we will be able to send them back to Schneider. I understand that almost every GT inverter is subject to this recall. It looks like we may have 30 or so to take care of. - Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:14 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: [RE-wrenches] Schneider recall So have you seen the widespread recall on the Xantrex GT and Sunpower SPRx line? Bulletin reports instances of the wiring cover blowing off the inverter & suggests all inverters be shut down until a retrofit kit is available for installation. -Glenn Burt ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods
Hi wrenches: Have you noticed that roofing companies have recently been trying to sell solar? One company thought of something that I had never considered. Listen to this neat story. I was servicing a job today, where a roofing company recently removed and re-installed a PV array on a 12 degree sloped roof. The funny thing is that the roofer didn't want to penetrate his new roof, so he and the customer decided to leave the panels sitting on the composition roof without any attachments to the structure. They didn't think it was necessary! Shortly afterward, the array slid down the roof, and a MultiContact connector came unplugged. The customer noticed that his system was not operating, and called us to the site. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods
Hi Joel: For many years, when Petersen Dean was Old Country Roofing, I would install the inverters and wiring for the Atlantis Sunslate roofs that they would sell. I liked that partnership. Also, I recognize that solar is less and less of a specialty anymore. Sooner than later, I would expect that solar installations will be installed largely by electricians, general contractors, and even roofing contractors (as long as they carry appropriate licensing.) However, many of my old partners, such as roofers who I have often referred, are now entering the solar industry. So my partners are becoming my competitors. They have that right. My hope is that whoever is installing solar, will at least provide a quality installation. What worries me about the system I serviced this week, where the modules were left sitting on a sloped roof without attachments, is that the roofing attachments is the aspect of the project that the roofer should be able to do best, but they skipped that step. That gives me some concern for the safety of PV system owners and their neighbors. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Joel Davidson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, January 28, 2011 6:55:21 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods Andrew, Carter era contractors did not kneecap alternative energy industry in the 1970s, but that's not a wrenches subject. Sure, everyone has stories about bad customers, GCs, subs, equipment, etc. Some of us are honest enough to admit that we have made a mistake or two. You don't have to work for or with people you don't like or buy equipment you don't like. But I don't know anyone in the building or energy industry who does not work with others. Few contractors nowadays do all the trades in-house. Do you sub out structural engineering, surveying, roofing, arborist, concrete cutting, crane, etc.? Then what's wrong with you being a sub if you like the other guy's work and can control design and electrical installation or whatever you need to control? There are plenty of decent contractors in your service area who would like to have a good go-to PV company just as you like to have good go-to roofer. You know your design and electrical costs and what margin you need for that portion of your work. So what's the hassle? Joel Davidson - Original Message - >From: Solar Energy Solutions >To: RE-wrenches >Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 8:41AM >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofersinstalling solar = creative,new >installation methods > > >Joel, > >Our company cannot survive without selling an entire system. When we >help the unqualified and untrained we legitimize unsubstantiated pv >businesses. We get a dozen phone calls a month from folks wanting >us >to install their systems. It is a rat hole and we have learned that >not only are such ventures unprofitable, they are fraught with poor >designs and a plethora of other hassles. This whole thing reminds me >of the Carter solar Gold Rush where, sure, a bunch of systems were >installed, but look at the damage it did to the industry. > >Respectfully, > > > >Andrew Koyaanisqatsi >President >Solar Energy Solutions, Inc. >Since 1987, >Moving Portland and Beyond >to an Environmentally Sustainable Future. >503-238-4502 >www.solarenergyoregon.com > >"Better one's House too little one day >than too big all the Year after." > >--- On Fri, 1/28/11, Joel Davidson wrote: > > >>From:Joel Davidson >>Subject: Re:[RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, >>new >>installationmethods >>To: "RE-wrenches" >>Date: Friday, January 28,2011, 7:06 AM >> >> >> >>Guys, >>You're missing a business opportunity.Instead of complaining >>about >>roofers' bad work andcompetition, show the company owners photos >>of >>their screw-upsand your quality work. Tell him that he is a risk. >>Then offer to dotheir design and electrical installation (let >>them >>do the sales,roofing, and grunt work). >>Joel Davidson >>- Original Message - >>>From: Warren Lauzon >>>To: RE-wrenches >>>Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 3:35 AM >>>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches]
Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods
Hi Keith: That kind of thing really helps develop a trusting relationship with the customer. Most customers seem willing to accept those charges on a T&M basis. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Keith Cronin To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 1:54:40 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods Folks. To support this idea further, this weekend we have our building trade show at our local convention center. New names, new faces in the solar industry each time I go. Today was no different. Many are what I would describe as folks that only provide solar installations. Others are offshoots of their respective trades, like roofing. Its the low hanging fruit, in their eyes, but my sense is they could be providing more value that the customers are looking for, but don't know its even available. If the margins are razor thin for PV, why not offer other wrench services that others desire not to touch, as it might not be as glamorous, but necessary. I'm always surprised that when I get invited out to an install, like I did this week, from one of my friendly competitors, how they seem to flagrantly overlook other value added services which could benefit the customer. Here was my short list (10) from a small residential project I was invited to see this week: (full disclosure, the home was old, code wise) 1. GFCI receptacles- bathrooms, kitchen counter, outside and near the clients pool. 2. Smoke detectors- their were opportunities to install 5 at this home and interconnect them to notify everyone in the home, in the event of an emergency. 3. Panel labeling- identifying the circuits in the breaker box for the client. 4. Upon removal of the panel cover- clean up wiring fiasco's waiting to happen- doubled up wires on breakers and a slew of other code issues. 5. Open junction boxes with wires essentially incapable of being stuffed into the 4x4 j-box; over an extension cover and a blank plate. 6. Broken receptacle in the hallway; I suspect this is the vacuum cleaner plug and it was probably damaged due to jerking out the cord instead of leaning over to pull it out. 7. Fluorescent fixtures in the garage-workshop zone; upgrade to T-8's and save $ on the utility bill. 8. In our market, we have a penchant for having the second refrigerator outside. This one was in the sun, roasting at the end of the day. Checked the born on date and it was 1994. This is not energy efficient by any means. Brought my Brand meter and was surprised at the amount of juice it was consuming. Recommended taking the client to Sears and get an energy efficient one. Client has a sentimental attachment to the refrigerator, but at my calcs, this sentimental relationship was costing $22 a month. 9. They had the ubiquitous extension cord wrapped around the living room for a mondo computer station. I recommended running a dedicated circuit to remedy the code/cord situation. 10. In one section of the home, was the original part of the house and there were still an old 6 circuit load center, filled to the gill with 12 circuits in it. Clearly this was not designed to handle this much load and capacity, so I recommended replacing it and or doing a calc to see if the feeder has reached its limits and offer to re-route some of the circuits to the main panel. I recommended to my friend, the competitor, to offer a free home inspection to identify the deficiencies in their electrical infrastructure and add value to the relationship. Seems simple, but often the PV is taking a front seat to other things. In a competitive environment, that we are all in now, if we are all doing apples to apples, then price seems to be the winner. When we add and offer something else to the relationship, we have more than just a transaction. When we all take the steps to raise the bar, others will follow. Everyones name gets elevated, brand awareness wise and consumers will talk to each other about their experiences and the value/education they've received. Sure, some entities will do the minimum, as always. By providing a final package to your customers, upon completion of your work, they would have pictures, documents etc., to show the system in working condition (and attached to the roof!!). Over the years, I've always elected to go out and fix others challenges, as it has offered me perspective and a way to develop a relationship with someone who might have been a little ignorant in their purchasing decisions. People tend to remember you, when this happens and often you get referrals as a result. It also means going into this type of relationship, delicately. I've not bashed the competitor for what we've discovered, but to offer a soluti
Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods
Hi Kieth: Have you really drawn up a contract to label a load center. Honestly, that should probably be included as part of the PV project. Many inspectors want to see that the panels are labelled at final inspection. I end up doing all servicing on an hourly basis. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: R Ray Walters To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sun, January 30, 2011 10:48:06 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Roofers installing solar = creative, new installation methods Keith; I try to catch some of those issues on our installs, but the problem is that you then become responsible for every electrical issue on the property. If the wiring that you saw looked that bad, Keith, imagine what might be hidden in the wall? Sometimes its easier to have a nice clear line drawn: we did the solar, everything else is their problem. I definitely start fixing stuff, if I feel its going to spill over and make the solar malfunction. (clean up the load center wiring, service issues, and grounding, knock out that 2nd fridge in the sun) However, rewiring an overloaded 4x4 box is something I recommend not touching, unless you're being hired to rewire the whole place. Just pulling out the wiring for inspection on some old 40's romex, can cause enough insulation to crack and fall away, that when you push it back in you will cause a short. I hate being put in that position. Consider keeping the scope of work just to the load center, and replace breakers with GFCI and AFCI breakers. Then you have substantially improved safety without opening any fresh cans o' worms. (ie overstuffed 4x boxes filled with old wire) R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jan 29, 2011, at 2:54 PM, Keith Cronin wrote: Folks. > > >To support this idea further, this weekend we have our building trade show at >our local convention center. >New names, new faces in the solar industry each time I go. Today was no >different. Many are what I would describe as folks that only provide solar >installations. Others are offshoots of their respective trades, like roofing. > > >Its the low hanging fruit, in their eyes, but my sense is they could be >providing more value that the customers are looking for, but don't know its >even >available. >If the margins are razor thin for PV, why not offer other wrench services that >others desire not to touch, as it might not be as glamorous, but necessary. > > >I'm always surprised that when I get invited out to an install, like I did >this >week, from one of my friendly competitors, how they seem to flagrantly >overlook >other value added services which could benefit the customer. >Here was my short list (10) from a small residential project I was invited to >see this week: (full disclosure, the home was old, code wise) > > >1. GFCI receptacles- bathrooms, kitchen counter, outside and near the clients >pool. >2. Smoke detectors- their were opportunities to install 5 at this home and >interconnect them to notify everyone in the home, in the event of an emergency. >3. Panel labeling- identifying the circuits in the breaker box for the client. >4. Upon removal of the panel cover- clean up wiring fiasco's waiting to >happen- >doubled up wires on breakers and a slew of other code issues. >5. Open junction boxes with wires essentially incapable of being stuffed into >the 4x4 j-box; over an extension cover and a blank plate. >6. Broken receptacle in the hallway; I suspect this is the vacuum cleaner plug >and it was probably damaged due to jerking out the cord instead of leaning >over >to pull it out. >7. Fluorescent fixtures in the garage-workshop zone; upgrade to T-8's and save >$ >on the utility bill. >8. In our market, we have a penchant for having the second refrigerator >outside. >This one was in the sun, roasting at the end of the day. Checked the born on >date and it was 1994. This is not energy efficient by any means. Brought my >Brand meter and was surprised at the amount of juice it was consuming. >Recommended taking the client to Sears and get an energy efficient one. Client >has a sentimental attachment to the refrigerator, but at my calcs, this >sentimental relationship was costing $22 a month. >9. They had the ubiquitous extension cord wrapped around the living room for a >mondo computer station. I recommended running a dedicated circuit to remedy >the >code/cord situation. >10. In one section of the home, was the original part of the house and there >were still an old 6 circuit load center, filled to the gill with 12 circuits >in >it. Clearly this was not de
Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge
I was looking at the public systems on the Solar Edge site, but did not know which system was yours, Pekka. However, I noticed that the system labelled AEE-Solar seemed to have an issue. The production data for each day shows a huge drop in power during the middle of the day, which comes back up later in the afternoon. That is not the kind of production that I would be looking for. Can anyone explain what is happening to there? Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Pekka Laine To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 11:32:42 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Hello everyone, I have installed four SolarEdge systems so far and am happy share my experiences My first installation is available for public monitoring via monitoring.solaredge.com. It consists of 26 Aleo s_1.8 225W modules, 26 PowerBoxes installed on Unirac solarmount rail and SolarEdge 5000US inverter. It was commissioned on June 6,2010 and has produced 6.3 MWh of total energy. Pros: Module level monitoring Centralized inverter Safety voltage for servicing the system Free internet monitoring & iPhone application Cons: Additional wire management and zip-tieing to the racking system Homerun is DC so it needs to be inside conduit (vs. Enphase) Tip: Remember to write down your serial numbers for PowerBoxes before installing the modules. I am happy to answer any other questions as well. Best regards, Pekka Laine President Photon Solar Power Inc. www.PhotonSolarPower.com Cell. 760-556-8170 Toll Free 888-SUN-ACDC Lic. #933648 Hello, Can anyone speak to real-life pros and/or cons of Solaredge module MPPT products and performance? Thanks. Kirk Herander Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar Installer NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT Solar Incentive Program Partner ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge
Hi Brian: I didn't get into solar to cut trees, and I doubt any of us did. Thanks for the insight. I am glad to know it wasn't due the Solar Edge equipment failing. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Brian Teitelbaum To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, January 31, 2011 4:53:45 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Hi Nick, I’m in that building. The system uses Sharp 185W (72-cell) modules, mounted on the roof. Even though it’s a three-story building, it’s not tall enough to catch any sun in mid-day because of three tall redwood trees in front of the building. The shading is not a problem for most of the year, but it sure is in January. We don’t want to cut the trees….this is Redway CA, after all, so the Reds have their way. The SolarEdge equipment was just installed about a month or so ago, so we don’t have year-round data yet. The PV array was previously connected to a variety of inverters, including an OutBack PS1, and even an old Beacon M5. I’m sure that the SolarEdge stuff will provide more output…when we actually get the sun on the array. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 4:29 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge I was looking at the public systems on the Solar Edge site, but did not know which system was yours, Pekka. However, I noticed that the system labelled AEE-Solar seemed to have an issue. The production data for each day shows a huge drop in power during the middle of the day, which comes back up later in the afternoon. That is not the kind of production that I would be looking for. Can anyone explain what is happening to there? Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax: 707-769-9037 From:Pekka Laine To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Sat, January 29, 2011 11:32:42 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] SolarEdge Hello everyone, I have installed four SolarEdge systems so far and am happy share my experiences My first installation is available for public monitoring via monitoring.solaredge.com. It consists of 26 Aleo s_1.8 225W modules, 26 PowerBoxes installed on Unirac solarmount rail and SolarEdge 5000US inverter. It was commissioned on June 6,2010 and has produced 6.3 MWh of total energy. Pros: Module level monitoring Centralized inverter Safety voltage for servicing the system Free internet monitoring & iPhone application Cons: Additional wire management and zip-tieing to the racking system Homerun is DC so it needs to be inside conduit (vs. Enphase) Tip: Remember to write down your serial numbers for PowerBoxes before installing the modules. I am happy to answer any other questions as well. Best regards, Pekka Laine President Photon Solar Power Inc. www.PhotonSolarPower.com Cell. 760-556-8170 Toll Free 888-SUN-ACDC Lic. #933648 Hello, Can anyone speak to real-life pros and/or cons of Solaredge module MPPT products and performance? Thanks. Kirk Herander Vermont Solar Engineering 802.863.1202 NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar Installer NYSERDA-eligible Installer VT Solar Incentive Program Partner ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Parallel wire runs to increase size
You shouldn't parallel wiring that way. That is not acceptable by code, and it is unnecessary. If the #10 is not sufficient just replace it. Due to the fact that the larger wiring has much less resistance, most if not all of the current will flow on the larger wires. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: "Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher" To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 8:00:07 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Parallel wire runs to increase size Wrenches, Some of our business involves repairing poor PV solar installations on recreational vehicles. So often we wind up installing a roof junction box and running a second PV to controller wire and then replacing the controller to battery wire size. For instance, we may find a 10 gauge wire run to the controller. We then add #8, #6, #4 or even 2 gauge and parallel to the #10 depending on power and distance of the run. My question: Is there a calculator or chart that will tell me what the combination of any two wire sizes equate to? example: #10 + #4 = X Thanks. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems powered by STARLIGHT™ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Parallel wire runs to increase size
That's true Dan. "Not all of the current" would be on the larger wire, but most would be, assuming that the old #10 and the connections are still good. And hopefully, it isn't landed on the 12V terminals on the back of the refrigerator. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Exeltech To: RE-wrenches Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 9:26:12 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Parallel wire runs to increase size NEC 310.4 permits parallel conductors of 1/0 or larger. Conductors smaller than 1/0 are permitted, but with stipulations. Nick's assertion "most if not all of the current will flow on the larger wires" is incorrect. The current will be shared proportionately between two paralleled conductors commensurate with their individual resistances. The original query related to recreational vehicle PV DC-side installation, and referenced installation of a "second PV", implying only one existed initially. This would thus fall outside the bounds of the NEC, but shouldn't be interpreted to mean some of the common-sense aspects of the NEC aren't to be considered. Dan --- On Wed, 2/2/11, Jason Szumlanski wrote: >From: Jason Szumlanski >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Parallel wire runs to increase size >To: "RE-wrenches" >Date: Wednesday, February 2, 2011, 11:15 AM > > >Nick, > >Can you cite a code section that supports this. (not challenging you – it >makes >sense and I agree) > >I have been wondering about SMA’s recommendation to parallel two 1/0 cables >for >a Sunny Island. If the wire sizes and lengths are identical, is this >acceptable? > >Jason Szumlanski >Fafco Solar > >From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Nick Soleil >Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 12:05 PM >To: RE-wrenches >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Parallel wire runs to increase size > >You shouldn't parallel wiring that way. That is not acceptable by code, and >it >is unnecessary. If the #10 is not sufficient just replace it. Due to the >fact >that the larger wiring has much less resistance, most if not all of the >current >will flow on the larger wires. > >Nick Soleil >Project Manager >Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC >PO Box 657 >Petaluma, CA 94953 >Cell: 707-321-2937 >Office: 707-789-9537 >Fax: 707-769-9037 > > > >From:"Starlight Solar, Larry Crutcher" >To: RE-wrenches >Sent: Wed, February 2, 2011 8:00:07 AM >Subject: [RE-wrenches] Parallel wire runs to increase size >Wrenches, > >Some of our business involves repairing poor PV solar installations on >recreational vehicles. So often we wind up installing a roof junction box and >running a second PV to controller wire and then replacing the controller to >battery wire size. For instance, we may find a 10 gauge wire run to the >controller. We then add #8, #6, #4 or even 2 gauge and parallel to the #10 >depending on power and distance of the run. My question: Is there a calculator >or chart that will tell me what the combination of any two wire sizes equate >to? example: #10 + #4 = X > >Thanks. >Larry Crutcher >Starlight Solar Power Systems >powered by STARLIGHT™ > >-Inline Attachment Follows- > > >___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Problem with NABCEP ad
I am sitting for the NABCEP test next month, but resisted for many years, because I did not want to endorse an additional layer of bureaucracy and expense for solar installers. It costs as much as the state contractor's license! Most of the competent installers have become certified now, so there is not much we can do about it. NABCEP is too much money, and adding additional certifications should be at a reduced cost. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Aram Alexander To: RE-wrenches Sent: Sun, February 6, 2011 10:11:20 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Problem with NABCEP ad No you are not. I have been installing grid tied PV for 10 years in ca. Nabcep is union based and all though it is good but it does not mean by any means the best as we have to fix several nabcep installed systems. I personally don't like there advertising either Aram On Feb 6, 2011, at 9:13 AM, wire...@gmail.com wrote: > Hello Wrenches, > > NABCEP has a full page ad in Home Power magazine that tells potential PV > buyers >to "Insist on a NABCEP Certified Installer". That's a great ad if you are >certified but not so good if you are not. I know many of you are but lots of >us >are not yet certified. > > > NABCEP is doing a great job to ensure that PV is installed by qualified >personal but is it their job to unintentionally cause non NABCEP certified >installers who are otherwise very qualified to lose business. I don't think >so. > > > I contacted NABCEP about the consequences of this ad and actually asked them > to >stop running it or at least tone it down so it doesn't cause installers like >to >me to lose business. They disagreed with me. > > Am I being too sensitive here? > > Thank you. > > Larry Liesner > Wirewiz > Westport, CT > Phone: 203-644-2404 > Fax: 203-557-0556 > wire...@gmail.com > www.wire-wiz.com > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing
To become NABCEP certified, you only need to have installed 2 PV systems. 1 of those systems can be at a training class, and the other can be on your brothers house. All that NABCEP Certified means is that I studied a list of questions, and then passed the test. It is good to know that a handrailing should be 39"-45" tall, and not 36"-42." However, that should not come with any title, like 'Certified PV Installer.' The experience requirements should be more stringent. If it required some real experience, it would mean something, but NABCEP wants as many participants as possible, so anyone can sit for it. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Dave Palumbo To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, February 7, 2011 11:10:21 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP marketing Larry, It’s easy to become frustrated browsing, or studying, anyone’s marketing these days. It’s OK to squeak once in a while on topics like this (in my opinion). NABCEP has not been discussed too much lately and your comment brought some good discussion to the group. Sounds like you are doing some good things in your business. Many professionals have not passed the test on the first take. David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com NABCEP Certified PV Installer Vermont Solar Partner 23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of wire...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, February 07, 2011 11:54 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP is Union Based? That's news to me! I spent about $1500 for prep course, hotel, etc to pass the entry level exam, so I have that. I spent about $2000 for prep, hotel, plane fare for the certification but I failed the test. I am taking it again in March. I'm studying harder this time. I'm 62 and my memory is not what it used to be and was never good at taking tests. When I design I have everything on my desk to refer to so I don't have to rely on my memory. And I just love installing, I've been doing it on boats for 30 years. I'm sorry if you think I'm whining, maybe I'll just stop. I'm just a competitive person and the ad ticked me off. Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com On Feb 7, 2011, at 11:16 AM, Bill Hoffer wrote: Larry My PE is not required for the majority of work I do either, but I get a considerable "edge" over my competition because I have invested the time energy and went through the stress of taking the exam. It is the same way with NABCEP, I have shown that I am willing to take the time, energy and stress to get the qualification. I also appreciate the NABCEP taking the time and effort to promote ME in their ads. After going through the time and effort, it is good to get some tangible payback, and you want to take that away from me, because you do not have the time to take the exam...give me a break! You have the right to run your business and promote it as you see fit and so do I! Does any qualification mean that you know everything, of course not. If any one of us think that, then we should get out of the business. Cause guess what, we are in a rapidly changing landscape where we all are continually learning more and growing as an industry. Otherwise there would not be much use in this blog at all. All an exam really means is that you took the time, energy and stress to prepare for and take the exam, which to me is a sign of professionalism. It is about time our industry grows up! Is NABCEP perfect, of course not, but we all have the opportunity to help to make this organization the best that it can be. I applaud the pioneers who had the vision and that were willing to invest the considerable amount of time, energy and stress to pull it off. If you can do without it , more power to you, but don't whine to me about it being unfair that we want to toot our horn about what we are trying to do for this industry! Bill -- Bill Hoffer PE NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Sunergy Engineering Services PLLC 2504 Columbia Ave NW East Wenatchee WA 98802-3941 suneng...@gmail.com (509)470-7762 Cell(509)679-6165 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.memb
Re: [RE-wrenches] PV water pumping
Hi Jeff: I am familiar with that installation you mentioned, which runs all of the buddhist prayer wheels. We have added an additional 100 KW of PV at that site, and at the new temple, Cintimani. Those Kyocera modules that were installed there failed. I found that about 1/3 of the modules were producing 0-10 Voc, vs the 21 Voc specified. As a result, of the low string voltages,the SMA inverters were underperforming significantly or not turning on at all. Kyocera replaced the entire array with new modules, and paid us a fair wage for the trouble. I have spent a couple months of my life working there, which was very peaceful and interesting, to say the least. Each one of those prayer wheels has over a mile of prayers inscribed on a long strip wrapped inside of them. I think I calculated that their were nearly 800 of those wheels, spinning continuously. They say that those wheels send out ~500 million prayers a day! Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Jeff Oldham To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Sent: Fri, February 11, 2011 8:51:34 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PV water pumping Jay is correct about the economics, but sometimes we must live with them as the only way to increase daily water production. However when the tracker fails they will not be making the daily need anymore and it is far more likely to be left dead than even batteries. In developing communities I have often used a "village tracker", a manually tracked array that anyone walking by can move to the sun. Along the line of Buddhist Prayer Wheels that are kept spinning by passerby's. As an aside I once did a 40kW grid-tied PV system for a temple to offset the load of the countless motors spinning their Prayer Wheels (not enough people passing to keep them all spinning). >From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions Dermatologists Hate Her Local Mom Reveals $5 Trick to Erase Wrinkles. Shocking Results Exposed Channel9.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Can I handle the voltage drop?
Hi Mark: I wouldn't feel comfortable with that scenario, either. Many inverters do shut off at 254V-255V, but most of them can be adjusted if you have the software and laptop for the job. Enphase generally shuts off when the AC voltage reaches 258V-259V. Keep in mind that just the Enphase cabling can add an additional 1.75% to the rise. I break my Enphase circuits into two sub-circuits of half length. Enphase is defintitely more tolerant of voltage issues than other inverters. Xantrex is the worst, but can be adjusted. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Mark Frye To: RE-wrenches Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 7:42:11 PM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Can I handle the voltage drop? Can I handle the voltage drop? Folks, I am working on a proposal. It's a ground mount 300+ feet from the meter. There is an existing, near by run of #2 copper I can tap into. The desired system is relatively large, 64 amps AC max. I have modeled the yield using PV watts hourly data, applying a power loss based on the voltage drop at the varying current. This model shows a 3% loss in annual yield with the #2 copper. Because of the economics of the system, we can absorb this loss. My concern however is that I do not want the inverters to shut down when operating at higher currents. I do not want a high AC line voltage fault due to the voltage drop on the line. At the 64 amps max, the drop would be about 4%. Of course all the manufactures I talk with recommend keeping the drop on the AC below 1.5%. I am looking at using Enphase inverters which spec an AC voltage range up to 264V, or 10% above 240V nominal. What experience have folks had out there? How far can one realistically push the 1.5% limit and still avoid AC voltage faults when there is high voltage drop on the line? My guess is that everything would work out fine, but I stand to loss a huge amount of energy if the inverters are spending all their time faulting and resetting during daily peaks. Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter?
Hi William: I got 46.9 degrees from the site. I feel comfortable calling that 47 degrees. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: William Miller To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tue, February 22, 2011 9:43:22 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? David: Here is a handy site: http://www.susdesign.com/sunangle/ Put in the information from your neighborhood for winter and summer solstice and get back to us on the difference. In my neighborhood, the sun altitude angle at noon on winter solstice is about 31.6 degrees. On summer solstice at noon (not corrected for DST) the sun altitude angle is 78.4 degrees. The difference is 46.8 degrees. I realize that solar noon is slightly different from clock noon, but the answers you get at clock noon should be very close to correct for solar noon. William Miller At 05:51 PM 2/22/2011, you wrote: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; > boundary="=_NextPart_000_0036_01CBD2D2.4189DBF0" >Content-Language: en-us > >Tom, > >This is coming from old memory, so I give this with a grain of salt, but I >believe the noontime sun angle at my latitude (44.5) is about 78 degrees on >June >21st and about 22 degrees on December 21st. That’s a difference of 56 degrees. > >David Palumbo >Independent Power LLC >462 Solar Way Drive >Hyde Park, VT 05655 >www.independentpowerllc.com >NABCEP Certified PV Installer >Vermont Solar Partner >23 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 > > > >From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org >[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Tom Elliot >Sent: Tuesday, February 22, 2011 7:46 PM >To: RE-wrenches >Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Array tilt angle doesn't matter? > > >“The further north you go the wider the summer to winter sun angle.” > >Bob-O. Explain this one to me please. The difference between winter solstice >and summer solstice sun angle is 47 degrees, everywhere on the planet, even in >Hawaii. I suspect that in higher latitudes a lower sun angle means more >atmosphere to affect insolation but the planet, last time I checked, is tilted >the same everywhere. > >Tom > > > >___ >List sponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options & settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List rules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Check out participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org > >No virus found in this message. >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >Version: 10.0.1204 / Virus Database: 1435/3461 - Release Date: 02/22/11 Please note new e-mail address and domain: William Miller Miller Solar Voice :805-438-5600 email: will...@millersolar.com http://millersolar.com License No. C-10-773985 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Spot welding PV's to rails for theft prevention: bad idea?
The BP oil company installed a ton of solar arrays for cathodic protection in the desert near Bakerfield in the 80s and 90s. They used Arco and Kyocera modules at ~50 watts each. They had a terrible time with theft, so they began welding the modules to the racks and the racks to the steel structures. However, the thieves persisted, by cutting the steel substructures with torches to get the modules. Eventually, BP brought in the utility power. Too bad. The good thing was that I got to buy the remaining 600 used modules for a good price. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Allan Sindelar To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 4:06:53 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Spot welding PV's to rails for theft prevention: bad idea? Mick, Direct Power did this some years ago on a piece of Interstate roadside art. I think it worked quite well to discourage theft. You might want to call DP&W for info; I'd talk with Jeff. Allan at Positive Energy On Mar 4, 2011 12:22 PM, "Mick Abraham" wrote: > Hello, we mounted some PV onesy modules as high as we could reach without a > man-lift, but an enterprising thief could reach just as high. The "side of > pole" mounts hold the bolt heads captive so I bought some aluminum > "breakaway" nuts. However the nuts have a big diameter which would not fit > inside the Kyocera PV frames. > > Has anyone tried spot welding the PV frames direct to the aluminum rails to > which they are mounted? Would this over stress the glass laminate or cause > other problems? I realize this would void the Kyo warranty but nothing voids > system performance like a stolen PV module. > > Happy Friday, > > Mick Abraham, Proprietor > www.abrahamsolar.com > > Voice: 970-731-4675 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter
Hi Mark, Ray, and wrenches: I agree that the grounding requirements can be onerous, but I have to interject that most generator manufacturers do specify a dedicated grounding electrode conductor. Also, I do not feel that a #8 ground is too big. Probably unnecessary 99% of the time, but with all the shorts and arced connections that I have found in j-boxes, I feel good about running a larger grounding conductor. With regard to the Enphase grounded with WEEB; which I have done many times, I would recommend spelling out the exact grounding method for the micro-inverters on the permit package. We should have this issue resolved before installation begins. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Mark Frye To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, March 4, 2011 10:53:46 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter Yes, but that comes from the assumption that the inverter constitutes a seperately derived "system". But if the only purpose or use of the DC power derived from the DC system is to drive the AC side of the inverter, how closely does it realy resemble a classic seperately derived system. As opposed to having the DC power source actually run DC utilization equipment such as motors and appliances. It is interesting that the very language in the code descibes the inverter as "utility interactive". Is it really correct to describe a UL174 inverter operating only in parrallel with the utility as a seperately derived system? To what degree has the Code failed to reflect the evolution of technology? Yes, battery-based inverter systems capable of powering a facility in the absense of a utility power souce do in fact become a seperately derived system which need to have a GEC. But to impose the same requirement on an inverter which cannot possibly deliver power to anything other than a system that already has a GEC seems to me to be a crude cookie cutter response to a far more complex situation. We have put the complexity into the inverters. Recogonizing this we see that we don't need the complexity in wiring? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 9:51 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter System grounding requirements. -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mark Frye Sent: Friday, March 04, 2011 7:51 AM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter The interesting thing to me is the underlying assumption in the Code that a GEC is requried for grid-tied inverters at all. Why isn't EG sufficient for function and safety. Which of the following common electrical equipment has the same requirement: UPS Motors with regenerative energy disipators DC power supplies Standby generators ?? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Bill Brooks Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2011 10:48 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] grounding the Enphase inverter All, While there is ambiguity in the 2008 NEC in 690.47(C) on the requirements for system grounding of PV systems, the 2011 NEC in 690.47(C) clarifies the intent. While an application note from Enphase may state that WEEBs can be used as part of the grounding electrode system, I disagree with this concept and do not believe it meets the requirements or intent of the NEC as clarified in the 2011 NEC. The problem with a grounded PV inverter is that it requires a grounding electrode conductor (GEC) from the grounding point (on the inverter) to the grounding electrode. The 2008 and 2011 NEC allows for that connection to be terminated at the grounding bar in the service panel supplying the micro-inverters. There is no problem with using the WEEB to bond the rails to the modules and then to the Enphase Micro-inverter. From the micro-inverter, a bare 6AWG could be run to pick up each micro-inveter in each row of micro-inverters with splices made to a single bare 6AWG made with irreversible splices. At the rooftop junction box, the GEC could be irreversibly spliced to an 8AWG green insulated conductor to run unbroken to the grounding busbar in the service equipment. While this may not be in agreement with the Enphase application note, I believe it meets the intent and let
Re: [RE-wrenches] Top of POST mount
Hi Jason: The rail spacing seems too thin for the module. Most modules require that the rails are no more than 25% in from the edges. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Jason Szumlanski To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tue, March 22, 2011 12:19:20 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Top of POST mount Here is my “cobulated” idea, admittedly done this way to take advantage of parts in stock: http://www.fafcosolar.com/download/402/Cobulate.pdf Unirac Solarmount rails, sandwiched together and lagged to post, and a brace from L-Feet and ¼”x2” aluminum bar. Modules top or bottom mount clips to rails. Think this will work, or will the “east-west” twisting be too much? Jason From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Truitt Sent: Tuesday, March 22, 2011 2:09 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Top of POST mount Cobulate is my new favorite word. I just hope Sarah Palin doesn't get a hold of it and begin to... cobulate... a viable candidacy. For a brighter energy future, Andrew Truitt Principal Truitt Renewable Energy Consulting NABCEP Certified PV Installer™(ID# 032407-66) (202) 486-7507 http://www.linkedin.com/pub/andrew-truitt/8/622/713 On Tue, Mar 22, 2011 at 7:13 AM, wrote: Just one Panel? depending on budget I'd either cobulate something out of Unistrut.. or You might find a metal fab shop to make you something... You wouldn't be the first.. Good luck.. db Dan Brown Foxfire Energy Corp. Renewable Energy Systems (802)-483-2564 www.Foxfire-Energy.com NABCEP #092907-44 Original Message >Subject: [RE-wrenches] Top of POST mount >From: "Jason Szumlanski" >Date: Tue, March 22, 2011 7:51 am >To: "RE-wrenches" >I’m looking for a solution to mount a 230W module on the top of an existing >6x6 >wood post. It can be side of post mounted, but I’d prefer top of post to get >it >up a little higher. Any ideas/products appreciated. > >Jason Szumlanski >Fafco Solar > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries
Hi Benn: Perhaps those batteries have just been sitting a little while, and need a recharge. Generally speaking, if you find that the batteries test reading are a little low, they are probably just a little discharged. After recharging the batteries, test them again. If those readings are low, then contact the manufacturer with the data. I have had great luck with battery manufacturers warranting their defective batteries in warranty. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: benn kilburn To: Wrenches Sent: Thu, March 24, 2011 9:43:20 AM Subject: [RE-wrenches] Testing new batteries I'm curious of others experiences with testing "new" batteries right from the mfgr, before putting them into service. I'm not talking about load testing, i mean just basics...voltage, specific gravity and electrolyte level. I recently received some batteries (24 x 2V) and before putting them to work i tested all the voltages, SG's and levels. Voltages were all with-in 0.016 V (2.1-2.084). The SG's were within 0.037 (1.281-1.244). Yes, the one with the lowest SG also had the lowest V. What concerns me a bit more than the few cells with lower SG is the consistent low levels of electrolyte. All cells were between 3/4" and 1-1/2" below full, which is 1/4" below the bottom of the vent well tube with one exception that was bang-on full. Interestingly, the one full battery was the only one with a different date code than the rest. Should the various levels of electrolyte mentioned be acceptable when a battery is brand new, straight from the mfgr? How bout the SG's? I'm considering adding electrolyte from a local battery shop instead of distilled water to top up all the batteries. Comments? Very thankful for the wealth of knowledge and experience on this list, benn DayStar Renewable Energy Inc. b...@daystarsolar.ca 780-906-7807 HAVE A SUNNY DAY ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Test
Hi wrenches: I sat for the NABCEP exam last weekend, and was surprised yesterday to hear that we will not receive the exam results for another month! I had heard that it only took a week. What was your experience. Also, the e-mail yesterday said that the Board has to decide what grade will be a passing grade? Can that be true? Does the grade get set to control the number who pass or fail? That doesn't seem right. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Hans Frederickson To: RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 8:15:19 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Expansion joints We used an OZ-Gedney expansion coupling for 1-1/4" EMT on a recent job. The part # is TX-125 for 1-1/4", and it would be TX-150 for 1-1/2". It is the same as the OZ-Gedney AX expansion coupling for rigid conduit, but uses a rigid nipple and EMT connectors to adapt to EMT. The assembly is UL listed. -Hans From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Erika Weliczko Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2011 5:54 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Expansion joints I recently used a Hubbell Killark product for rigid/IMC and was not happy with how the threads of the coupling engaged in factory conduit threads. Crousehinds XJG-EMT series is intended for EMT. And is described as being used indoors or outdoors. The EMT couplings mostly seem to be compression. REpower SOLUTIONS www.repowersolutions.com P: 216.268.2275 C: 216.402.4458 From:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jamie Johnson Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2011 2:33 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [SPAM] Re: [RE-wrenches] Expansion joints Peter, Cooper makes one for 1.5" emt, not sure if it is rated for wet locations or not. part #XJG54 EMT, it allows for up to 4" max of conduit movement. Jamie Johnson NABCEP Certified PV Technical Sales Professional NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer General Manager SOLAR POWER ELECTRIC Original Message >Subject: [RE-wrenches] Expansion joints >From:"Peter Parrish" ; >Date:Tue, March 29, 2011 1:04 pm >To: "'RE-wrenches'" > >Doesanyone have information (manu and part number) for expansion joints >for >1-1/2 EMT? I have also heard that many EJs are designed for rigidconduit >(RMC) and may not be directly applicable to EMT. > >-Peter > >Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President >California SolarEngineering, Inc. >820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 >CA Lic.854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 >peter.parr...@calsolareng.com >Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax323-258-8885 > >___ >Listsponsored by Home Power magazine > >List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > >Options& settings: >http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > >Listrules & etiquette: >www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > >Checkout participant bios: >www.members.re-wrenches.org___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Test
Hello Ezra, Bob-o, and wrenches: I guess if I were to pass the exam, and if I could find my results, I would be content. However, I do have a concern that if the test is calibrated to achieve a 50% pass rate, that the problems must be made vague and confusing to cause difficulty. Here are my primary concerns. - The test material did not match the study guide - The most recent test seems to test us on a number of obscure OSHA facts, that do not really pertain to designing and installing solar, to keep the test difficult. - With each test cycle, the candidates are told they need to study x number of hours to pass the test, but only 50% pass, so the next group has to study 2x times to pass the exam. As more folks study harder and harder to pass the test, the test only gets harder or the pass level is raised to keep the same level of a 50% pass rate. Over time we have to study more and more obscure facts, that have less to do with solar installing and designing, and more to do with short-term memorization of unimportant material. Additionally, I believe that the test contained some mistakes. One question required an analysis of two roof surfaces, and we had to find which surface would produce more power, and how much more power. However, the azimuths were listed as 'Compass' degree readings, but the provided chart gave outputs for 'True' degrees. The question did not provide the magnetic declination for the site! Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Bob-O Schultze To: RE-wrenches Sent: Fri, April 1, 2011 9:34:51 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP Test Larry, This also from Ezra -who, because of a bit of silliness on the part of the moderator of this list- cannot post here. "Larry, NABCEP provides test takers with a passing score and a partial breakdown of their score by exam blueprint area. It is always a bit confusing because we report only on those exam blueprint areas where there are sufficient number of questions for the information provided to be relevant. For example informing a candidate that they scored 50% in an area where there were only two questions provided little useful information but informing the same candidate that they scored 50% on an area where there are ten questions clearly informs them that this is an area where further study is required. We do not provide candidates with individual questions they missed as this would have a strong negative impact on the security of the exam. If we informed candidates on individual questions we would have to retire each exam question we did so with which would put a huge burden of developing new questions on our volunteer exam committee. It would also but a burden on the exam itself as we would be continually retiring statically field proven questions. I know it is disappointing to candidates to not see the questions they missed, and if I was a candidate I'd likely be frustrated as well. I also know that it is simply not practical to do so and that our procedures are in accordance to established and recognized testing protocols. Sincerely, Ezra Auerbach Executive Director" eauerb...@nabcep.org To which I also add to replay to your last post: You are incorrect that 70 is always the passing grade. It can be a little lower or even a little higher depending on the difficulty of that particular test and if we have identified any questions which have proved to be unclear or ambiguous. It takes time for our testing agency to compile that data. It takes time for our test committee to re-evaluate the questions and how they were answered. Lastly, each and every Certificant (not Entry Level) testing results comes before the Board with the raw information and the recommendations of our committee for a final decision and approval of a passing score. We go to great lengths to make sure all our testing is as fair and unbiased as possible. As Ezra points out, it would be HUGELY expensive to have to replace our question pool for every test because we revealed the questions which you missed to you. Surely you can see that those questions would be widely circulated by the time candidates sat for the next test, making them useless. Bob-O On Apr 1, 2011, at 5:57 AM, wire...@gmail.com wrote: Ezra, Do you follow guidelines as to the "rights and responsibilities" of test takers. Do test takers have a right to see the questions they got wrong? Larry Liesner Wirewiz Westport, CT Phone: 203-644-2404 Fax: 203-557-0556 wire...@gmail.com www.wire-wiz.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenche
[RE-wrenches] SLDs with Mac
Hello Mac Users: I have been using Visio Professional for my Single Line Diagrams, but am considering a change to Mac. Can I open or edit Visio diagrams with any Mac applications? Probably not. What programs are available for generating electrical diagrams? Have you used OmniGraffle? It seems really user friendly. What about AutoCAD for Mac? Nick Soleil 707-321-2937 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] PVC running through the house
As per the 2011 NEC, MC (metal clad cable) is now allowed to be run inside the building envelope for solar output circuits. Nick Soleil Project Manager Advanced Alternative Energy Solutions, LLC PO Box 657 Petaluma, CA 94953 Cell: 707-321-2937 Office: 707-789-9537 Fax:707-769-9037 From: Peter Parrish To: Keith Cronin ; RE-wrenches Sent: Thu, April 7, 2011 4:23:52 PM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] PVC running through the house The Code back then was a little vague back then and I am not sure it has been improved. First, there needs to be a DC disconnect just before or just after penetrating the building shell. Most AHJ allowed us to place this disconnect in the attic within reach of the access door. Once we needed to place the DC disconnect on the roof and we were able to get away with a fused combiner box. Another time we actually needed to put a 600V 3-pole fused disco on the roof. Second, and this is really an obscure point. Only conduit, raceways and the like (not cable runs) were allowed in the attic space and walls. So FMC is okay but MC is not. It is an issue of unfortunate terminology. Third, you need to label the conduit “Caution – Solar Circuit”, even in the walls. Finally, where the conduit passes thru studs, you need protection plates on the studs to prevent screws or nails piercing the conduit. That’s my story and I’m sticking to it. -Peter Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President California Solar Engineering, Inc. 820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065 CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26 peter.parr...@calsolareng.com Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885 From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Keith Cronin Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2011 3:05 PM To: RE-Wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] PVC running through the house Hi folks Was wondering- does anyone know back in 2005, if it was permissible to run DC conductors from the roof, through the home to the inverter location, inside the house, per the NEC? Thanks Keith Cronin ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Backup for Older Enphase Systems
Hi Wrenches, We now have the ability to provide frequency based power curtailment. If you are AC Coupling with a battery-based inverter that can fluctuate frequency to regulate charge on the battery, then we can ramp our output up and down to regulate the charge more evenly. If you have an AC Coupled system using Enphase microinverters, reach out to me and I will set your company up with a grid profile that can provide this option. Once your company has been granted access to this profile, you can update the profile using either our Installer Toolkit (ITK) app or Enlighten. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy | Product Manager, Envoy and IQ Accessories (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell [Enphase_esig_logo6.jpg]<https://enphase.com/> Energy Evolved<http://enphase.com>™ Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<http://ow.ly/HbVS3> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 Texas Master Electrician #284451 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Gary Willett Sent: Saturday, November 11, 2017 3:34 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Backup for Older Enphase Systems DAVE: How does the brute force OFF transitions of the 8K of Enphase AC-coupled micro-inverters affect the AC loads being served by the Sonnen? Are there any noticeable/measurable glitches in the Sonnen's distributed AC? I am assuming the Enphase ON transitions are more graceful because of the UL1741 prove-in period and the individual ramp-up of the individual microinverters. Regards, Gary Willett PE Icarus Engineering & Solar Services LLC On 11/9/17 2:28 PM, Dave Tedeyan wrote: > You could go with a Sonnen. That is meant to be AC coupled, and its a very > simple install. > Nice piece of equipment, but its expensive. We just installed one that has > right around 8kw of Enphase M215 inverter output. So far, no issues. > > Cheers, > Dave > > > *--* > > > *Dave Tedeyan* > *Project Engineer* > > *Taitem Engineering, PC* > 10 Verizon Lane, Lansing, NY 14882 > Voice: (607) 930-3481 x6 > www.taitem.com<http://www.taitem.com> > > On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 2:07 PM, John wrote: > >> We did one a few months ago using Outback VFX3024e, 1000 a/h battery bank >> - basically an Off-Grid system but tied into the switchboard, with customer >> nominated circuits dedicated to the Off-Grid system. The grid is acting >> like the backup generator via a relay. >> >> The only little hiccup was that when the *generator* was called on, the >> Off-Grid system had to sync in with the real Grid, it was not immediate. >> >> Apart from that - seems to work O.K.John,GoSolar >> Ltd, Christchurch, N.Z. >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On >> Behalf Of Matt Sherald >> Sent: Friday, 10 November 2017 3:43 a.m. >> To: RE-wrenches >> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Backup for Older Enphase Systems >> >> I'd appreciate some ideas as to what backup system designs work well with >> the older Enhase equipment (M250/215 era). >> >> I've tried this at home with a XW4024, but the frequency rise causes the >> lights to flicker and it is awfully unpleasant. >> >> A customer of mine has asked about backup to go with an array that uses >> M250s and this prompted me to write. >> >> Thanks in advance! >> >> -Matt >> >> -- >> Matt Sherald >> PIMBY Energy, LLC >> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer® >> 304-704-5943 >> >> www.getpimby.blogspot.com<http://www.getpimby.blogspot.com> >> www.getpimby.com<http://www.getpimby.com> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Change listserver email address & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. >> org/maillist.html >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> >> >> Check out or update participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> >> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored b
Re: [RE-wrenches] MIXING ENPHASE M-2XX / IQ6 MICROS & ENVOY / IQ-ENVOY ON SAME AC COMBINER LOAD CENTER
Enphase does allow an IQ Envoy and an older Envoy (Envoy-S or earlier) on the same site.We were initially conservative and didn't officially recommend it, but have removed that wording from our IQ Microinverter datasheet and from our trainings. The new IQ Envoy won't talk to the M and S-series micros (and vice-versa), so you will need two Envoys, one of them being an IQ Envoy. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy | Product Manager, Envoy and IQ Accessories (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell [Enphase_esig_logo6.jpg]<https://enphase.com/> Energy Evolved<http://enphase.com>™ Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<http://ow.ly/HbVS3> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 Texas Master Electrician #284451 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:49 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] MIXING ENPHASE M-2XX / IQ6 MICROS & ENVOY / IQ-ENVOY ON SAME AC COMBINER LOAD CENTER Although Enphase recommends against it I believe (mixing generations at this time), in theory you need one ACCP, two Envoys (one of each type), and you can aggregate into a single portal system (just add the second Envoy to the activation). I think the mixing of systems is not recommended due to potential communication interference. >From what I understand they are launching an IQ Envoy that will handle both systems in the future, but they are not there yet. I'm actually sourcing some M250's at this moment to add to a M215 system for a client. I wanted to avoid the whole IQ issue and let someone else be the guinea pig, so let us know what results you have! :) We are about to have hundreds of homes with a mix of some with M series and some with IQ series in very close proximity. This should be interesting! But I don't expect any major issues home to home. The first IQ systems are not showing any issues yet. Jason Szumlanski On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 8:27 PM, Gary Willett wrote: >ESTEEMED WRENCHES: >I'm in the process of engineering a project to add 16 new Enphase IQ6 >micros to an existing 48 Enphase M215-IG system that has been >in-service about 2 years. >The original system has a NEMA-3R outdoor AC Combiner Panel (ACCP) with >each of the (3) M215 AC strings landing on a separate 2-pole 20A >circuit breaker. >The Enlighten Envoy is mounted in a NEMA-4 plastic enclosure below the >ACCP, and is powered by a 1-pole 15A breaker in the ACCP. >My intent is to land the new 16-IQ6 string on a new 20A breaker in the >ACCP, and to power its Envoy (if needed) also from the ACCP. >In studying Enphase documents: > > (A) IQ6 micros have to be monitored by an IQ-Envoy. > (B) Envoy uses a 1-pole "L1, "N", and "EGC" a dedicated NEMA-5R > receptacle branch circuit for power supply and its AC comms modem. > (C) IQ-Envoy uses "L1, "L2, and "N", for power supply and its AC > comms modem, and is wired directly to its dedicated 2-pole breaker. > >My questions: > > 1. Can I replace the existing Envoy with a new IQ-Envoy, and monitor > the all 64 micros (48 existing M215s; 16 new IQ6s) with the new > IQ-Envoy? > 2. If the answer to "1" is yes, that's what I would like to do. > 3. If the answer to "1" is no, can I still land the new IQ6 string > on the existing ACCP, or do I need to place another ACCP just for > the new IQ6 string and any future growth? > 4. If the answer to "1" is no, can the existing Envoy and the new > IQ-Envoy both be powered from the same ACCP? > 5. If both the existing Envoy and the new IQ-Envoy can co-exist at > the same customer site, will the Enlighten software monitoring > portal aggregate all 64 Enphase micros into a single unified > production view, or will two separate production views be required? > >Thanks for your help! >Gary Willett PE >Icarus Engineering / Solar Services LLC >Irving TX > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/2d50e8d87317466f2604245c61148c13af5cc414?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org&userId=1613865&signature=161b5623c16b2865> > > List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches. > org/maillist.html > <https://mailt
Re: [RE-wrenches] Auger for ground mount
I’d use a two-man gas auger. Nick Soleil Product Manager Enphase Energy Cell: 707-321-2937 On Feb 9, 2018, at 7:05 AM, Chris Mason mailto:cometenergysyst...@gmail.com>> wrote: I'm taking on construction of a ground mount system of about 30KW. My previous experience has entailed using a utility truck mounted auger for the holes but that's expensive. The soil type here is fairly soft, not rock. There's no contractor available with a skid steer mounted auger. I need at least four inch holes, three foot deep. Siz inch would be better. What are the options? Any novel ideas? We have a service truck with a 2 ton hydraulic crane, anything I can mount to that? I don't mind fabricating brackets and mounts, welding parts to it. -- Chris Mason NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Solar Design Engineer Generac Generators Industrial technician www.cometsolar.com<http://www.cometenergysystems.com> 264.235.5670 869.662.5670 Skype: netconcepts ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase question
Hi wrenches, The older generation micros (M190s, M210s, M215s, M250s, S280s) all communicated at 144kHz, line to neutral and communicated with the old EMUs, the oval Envoys, and the Envoy-S system monitors. The new IQ micros (IQ 6, IQ 6+, IQ 7, IQ 7+, and IQ 7X) no longer have a neutral, so we had to go to a new communication protocol which is 110kHz, line to line. You would need a new IQ Envoy for pairing with the new IQ micros in addition to the existing system monitor. If your customer wants to stick with HIT modules similar to the Sanyo's they had originally, then you can pair the Panasonic HIT modules with our IQ 7X micros. We have a module compatibility tracker online here: https://enphase.com/en-us/support/module-compatibility Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell [Enphase_esig_logo6.jpg]<https://enphase.com/> Energy Evolved<http://enphase.com>™ Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<http://ow.ly/HbVS3> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 Texas Master Electrician #284451 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jay Sent: Saturday, July 7, 2018 8:32 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase question Hi Jerry, Can the new EMU work with the older units? Jay Peltz power. On Jul 6, 2018, at 11:59 PM, Jerry Shafer mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>> wrote: Wrenches, Ron Thats a good thing with enphase, mix and don't need to match, you will need inverters that connect in line or just seperate them with a combiner/subpanel. You will need to stay away from the new Q inverter series as its on a different frequency for comms, 190's 210's 215's and as l recall the 250's all on the older EMU, they are getting harder to find but im sure there are some out there. Jerry On Fri, Jul 6, 2018, 3:06 PM RM You mailto:solarea...@solareagle.com>> wrote: I have a legacy system with 12 Sanyo HIT 215N panels and Enphase 210’s. Client wants to re-do roof and add two more panels when the system is re-installed. Are there any concerns with mixing Enphase inverters on a single string, e.g. adding a couple of 265w panels and appropriate inverters? We don’t do a lot of grid tie and this hasn’t come up before. Ron ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Altitude and controllers
To clarify, the altitude restriction that Enphase sets is only related to the Envoy and Combiner Boxes, but does not apply to microinverters or other accessories. Please contact me off-list if you are having any issues with the altitude restriction. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell [Enphase_esig_logo6.jpg]<https://enphase.com/> Energy Evolved<http://enphase.com>™ Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<http://ow.ly/HbVS3> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 Texas Master Electrician #284451 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Darryl Thayer Sent: Monday, August 20, 2018 11:48 AM To: newrewrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Altitude and controllers Of course, the heat rejection rate with a thinner atmosphere is reduced. The electrical capacity is then reduced. At higher altitudes, Outback recommended reduced input. IN your case it would mean smaller modules on the microinverter. On Mon, Aug 20, 2018 at 1:38 PM mailto:ch...@oasismontana.com>> wrote: Hi Folks: What is the deal with altitude restrictions on charge controllers and other solid state circuitry? We have a high altitude customer with some concerns. For example, Enphase wants their goods installed at under 2000 meters…. Best, Chris Daum Oasis Montana Inc. 406-777-4309 or 4321 406-777-4309 fax www.oasismontana.com<http://www.oasismontana.com> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase CTs
Hi William, Our metered Envoys in North America can only be used with the Enphase 200A consumption CTs (CT-200-SPLIT). Many of the off-the-shelf CT options have an embedded burden resistor and output millivolts. Our CTs output milliAmps and we have embedded the burden resistor on the Envoy board. Unfortunately, you won't find an alternate CT. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell [Enphase_esig_logo6.jpg]<https://enphase.com/> Energy Evolved<http://enphase.com>™ Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<http://ow.ly/HbVS3> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 Texas Master Electrician #284451 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of William Miller Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 12:39 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase CTs Friends: I am fixin’ to install an Enphase system with the Envoy-S and the AC combiner box. I wish to monitor consumption. It appears to me that Enphase offers only one model of CT which may be a bit large for the space I have. The panel is only 100 Amps and thus has smaller feeder conductor than a 200 A would. Does anyone know if one can substitute other manufacturer’s CTs in an Enphase system? As always, thanks for any input. William Miller [Gradient Cap_mini] Lic 773985 millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/> 805-438-5600 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase CTs
Yes, both the Envoy-S and IQ Envoy use the same consumption metering CTs (CT-200-SPLIT). Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell [Enphase_esig_logo6.jpg]<https://enphase.com/> Energy Evolved<http://enphase.com>™ Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<http://ow.ly/HbVS3> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 Texas Master Electrician #284451 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of wmdorsett Sent: Thursday, August 23, 2018 6:55 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase CTs Thanks Nick. I'm content with using the ones from Enphase. Are those for the envoy S the same as the ones for envoy iq? Bill Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone Original message ---- From: Nick Soleil Date: 8/22/18 8:43 PM (GMT-06:00) To: RE-wrenches , will...@millersolar.com Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase CTs Hi William, Our metered Envoys in North America can only be used with the Enphase 200A consumption CTs (CT-200-SPLIT). Many of the off-the-shelf CT options have an embedded burden resistor and output millivolts. Our CTs output milliAmps and we have embedded the burden resistor on the Envoy board. Unfortunately, you won't find an alternate CT. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Product Manager (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell [Enphase_esig_logo6.jpg]<https://enphase.com/> Energy Evolved<http://enphase.com>™ Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<http://ow.ly/HbVS3> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 Texas Master Electrician #284451 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of William Miller Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2018 12:39 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Enphase CTs Friends: I am fixin’ to install an Enphase system with the Envoy-S and the AC combiner box. I wish to monitor consumption. It appears to me that Enphase offers only one model of CT which may be a bit large for the space I have. The panel is only 100 Amps and thus has smaller feeder conductor than a 200 A would. Does anyone know if one can substitute other manufacturer’s CTs in an Enphase system? As always, thanks for any input. William Miller [Gradient Cap_mini] Lic 773985 millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/> 805-438-5600 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Crimper for Enphase field wireable connectors
Hi Jason, The Field Wireable Connectors Installation Guide specified the following crimping tools for use with the connectors: Multi-Contact PV-CZM-18100, -19100, or -22100. That tool is required for meeting our reliability requirements and compliance requirements. The document can be found here: https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/Q-Field-Wireable-Connectors-QIG-EN-US.pdf Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager, Envoy and Accessories (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Thursday, March 7, 2019 3:03 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Crimper for Enphase field wireable connectors I have the Rennsteig now. I wasn't sure if it is ok to use since it's not the exact specified model in the Enphase instructions. There are all kinds of knock offs for under $50 and I have found a couple that seem to work extremely well, but again I'm not sure if it violates the listing to do so. Jason Szumlanski Principal Solar Designer Florida Solar Design Group On Wed, Mar 6, 2019, 9:16 PM Jay mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com>> wrote: Hi Jason Talk to Bryan at PV cables 707-923-3000 He’s got the Rennsteig tool for under $200 and the MFG tool for just under $300 Jay Peltz power. > On Mar 6, 2019, at 2:20 PM, Jason Szumlanski > mailto:ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com>> > wrote: > > Is there a reasonably priced alternative to the Multi-Contact PV-CZM-##100 > models? These are the only ones specified in the quick install guide. > Obviously I don't want to violate the listing, but I also don't want to spend > $500 for a tool for each truck. > > Jason Szumlanski > Principal Solar Designer > Florida Solar Design Group > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: > RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box
Hi Jason and Christopher, We provide installation recommendations for installing an Envoy in a separate enclosure on pages 12-16 of our IQ Planning Guide found here.<https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/TechBrief-Planning-for-IQ-System.pdf#page=12> This tech brief doesn't address Jason's code questions, though. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager, Envoy and Accessories (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Christopher Warfel Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 11:43 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. If you are using the IQ Combiner, the wiring diagram is on the inside cover. Coming from the array, L1, L2 and G. Going to the utility interconnection, L1, L2, G, N. L1, L2 into the 20a breakers, G to the G busbar, N to the N busbar. It's all there and is a nice package I think. My personal preference is to use manufacturer's equipment instead of making my own. I don't know if the AHJ would complain about non-listed equipment in the case of making your own DAS center. The Envoy may need a button pushed once in a while. I have asked customers to do this to save a trip. The Enphase "package" is safe for them to do that. I hope I did not miss your question. Chris On 3/28/2019 12:55 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: When mounting an Envoy on the supplied DIN rail in a PVC box wired via PVC conduit, is there any requirement to accompany the conductors with a ground wire? The envoy itself does not have a ground connection and the only exposed metallic part is the DIN rail. I'm thinking I need to mount a ground lug in the PVC box so the circuit conductors have a ground wire in the conduit. I have always used the IQ combiner even for larger systems because it was just easier. I'm considering changing to a regular PVC junction box with just an Envoy. While on the subject, if there is ample space within a load center, would it be permissible to mount the Envoy right inside the enclosure? 400A plus load centers in residential settings often have a lot of empty space! ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box
Hi Jason, In the IQ Planning Guide, the reference to calculating the OCPD at 1.25 x the inverter continuous output current rating was in reference to sizing larger OCPDs for the Enphase Q Aggregators (branch aggregators.) I did not intend to imply that smaller circuits should be installed on breakers smaller than 20A. 20A breakers are sufficient for protecting a single branch circuit of IQ Microinverters, provided that the field wiring is sufficiently sized. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager, Envoy and Accessories (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Monday, April 1, 2019 3:55 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. Somewhat unrelated is the confusion about AC branch circuit OCPD in an Enphase IQ system. My understanding was that each branch circuit could be protected by a 20A breaker, but I always designed it for minimum branch circuit OCPD at 1.25 x combined inverter output circuit rating. The Original IQ Combiner had 20A breakers preinstalled, so that was not an option. The IQ design guide states that for the Combiner+ and Combiner 3 that the installer should select breakers with the correct amp rating. The M series design guide stated that 1.25 x combined inverter output circuit rating should be used. But it seems that Enphase would approve of 20A circuit protection regardless of how the string is populated (up to the max). Back to the original thread - I'm thinking that a grounding conductor should run with the circuit conductors and just terminate on a lug or ground bar even if it's all PVC. As for whether the DIN rail needs to be bonded - no idea on that one... I could argue that it is not exposed if it is behind the Envoy I suppose. Jason On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 4:29 PM Nick Soleil mailto:nsol...@enphaseenergy.com>> wrote: Hi Jason and Christopher, We provide installation recommendations for installing an Envoy in a separate enclosure on pages 12-16 of our IQ Planning Guide found here.<https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/TechBrief-Planning-for-IQ-System.pdf#page=12> This tech brief doesn't address Jason's code questions, though. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager, Envoy and Accessories (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 From: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> on behalf of Christopher Warfel mailto:cwar...@entech-engineering.com>> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 11:43 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. If you are using the IQ Combiner, the wiring diagram is on the inside cover. Coming from the array, L1, L2 and G. Going to the utility interconnection, L1, L2, G, N. L1, L2 into the 20a breakers, G to the G busbar, N to the N busbar. It's all there and is a nice package I think. My personal preference is to use manufacturer's equipment instead of making my own. I don't know if the AHJ would complain about non-listed equipment in the case of making your own DAS center. The Envoy may need a button pushed once in a while. I have asked customers to do this to save a trip. The Enphase "package" is safe for them to do that. I hope I did not miss your question. Chris On 3/28/2019 12:55 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: When mounting an Envoy on the supplied DIN rail in a PVC box wired via PVC conduit, is there any requirement to accompany the conductors with a ground wire? The envoy itself does not have a ground connection and the only exposed metallic part is the DIN rail. I'm thinking I need to mount a ground lug in the PVC box so the circuit conductors have a ground wire in the conduit. I have always used the IQ combiner even for larger systems because it was just easier. I'm considering changing to a regular PVC junction box with just an Envoy. While on the subject, if there is ample space within a load center, would it be permissible to mount the Envoy right inside the enclosure? 400A plus load centers in residential settings often
Re: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter OCP
Hi Jay, ArcFault protection is only required for systems operating over 80V, so isn't required for most microinverters. Enphase microinverters include ground-fault protection integral to the microinverters and the GFI can be reset if it trips. Enphase provides instructions on reseting a tripped GFI in our Envoy Installation Manuals, including in this doucment: https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/IQ-Envoy-Manual-EN-US.pdf#page=40 Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager, Envoy and Accessories (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jay Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2019 7:15 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Micro inverter OCP EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. Hi all, For micro inverters, what OCP is available for ground fault ( or arc fault) for roof top mounted on a living structure? Thx Jay ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Old & new Enphase communication issues
As Dave mentioned,
We manufacture M215 and M250 microinverters that are based upon the IQ 7 design
and include an adapter cable that allows the microinverter to plug into the
legacy Engage cables and talk to the legacy Envoy-S. We sell 40 drop lengths
of the portrait Engage cable (ET10-240) as well as Engage Terminators, Engage
Seals, Engage wire clips, and Engage Accessory Kits (which include the
Disconnect Tools)
These are legacy components are available at an online store here:
https://store.enphase.com/storefront/
Cordially,
Nick Soleil
Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager
(707) 763-4784 x7267 // office
(707) 321-2937 // cell
Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management
System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300
California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315
From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Dave
Tedeyan
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 9:19 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Old & new Enphase communication issues
EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading
attachments.
Since Enphase stopped making the old M215's, they have been sending out M215's
that look like IQ microinverters, with an adapter. These supposedly work with
the old Envoy. I am not sure if they are only available as warranty replacents,
or if you can purchase them new though.
Cheers,
Dave
On Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 12:17 PM Wayne Irwin
mailto:pureenergyso...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
The IQ series is not compatible with non IQ versions and would need to treated
as two separate systems with two Envoys.
Wayne Irwin
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
wa...@pureenergysolar.com
PureEnergySolar.com<http://pureenergysolar.com/>
SolarChargingStation.com<http://solarchargingstation.com/>
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax
352 316-1637 Cell
The Sun Is Always Shining!
The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or
distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and
delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
From: RE-wrenches
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
on behalf of Tump mailto:t...@swnl.net>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 12:14 PM
To: RE-wrenches
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old & new Enphase communication issues
Anyone have experience as to wether the Enphase Envoy w/ M215 & the new Enphase
products are compatible? I have a client that is interest in adding additional
modules & inverters and I don’t want issues regarding mapping & online info.
Thanks in advance. T
t...@swnl.net www.SWNL.net
Solarwinds Northernlights
Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401
Blair "TUMP" May
MAINE'S CHARTER
NABCEP"Certified PV Installer"
MAINE'S CHARTER
Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Old & new Enphase communication issues
Hi August,
These IQ based micros will not work with the legacy, positively grounded
Sunpower modules, but these will work for expanding to those systems.
Cordially,
Nick Soleil
Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager
(707) 763-4784 x7267 // office
(707) 321-2937 // cell
Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management
System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300
California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315
From: RE-wrenches on behalf of
August Goers
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 10:32 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Old & new Enphase communication issues
EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading
attachments.
Nick - Slightly different question related to the same topic - can we buy IQ
based MIs for legacy positively grounded SunPower systems?
Thanks,
August
Luminalt
On Tue, Mar 10, 2020 at 10:23 AM Nick Soleil
mailto:nsol...@enphaseenergy.com>> wrote:
As Dave mentioned,
We manufacture M215 and M250 microinverters that are based upon the IQ 7 design
and include an adapter cable that allows the microinverter to plug into the
legacy Engage cables and talk to the legacy Envoy-S. We sell 40 drop lengths
of the portrait Engage cable (ET10-240) as well as Engage Terminators, Engage
Seals, Engage wire clips, and Engage Accessory Kits (which include the
Disconnect Tools)
These are legacy components are available at an online store here:
https://store.enphase.com/storefront/
Cordially,
Nick Soleil
Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager
(707) 763-4784 x7267 // office
(707) 321-2937 // cell
Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management
System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy>
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300
California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315
From: RE-wrenches
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
on behalf of Dave Tedeyan mailto:dtede...@taitem.com>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 9:19 AM
To: RE-wrenches
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Old & new Enphase communication issues
EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading
attachments.
Since Enphase stopped making the old M215's, they have been sending out M215's
that look like IQ microinverters, with an adapter. These supposedly work with
the old Envoy. I am not sure if they are only available as warranty replacents,
or if you can purchase them new though.
Cheers,
Dave
On Tue, Mar 10, 2020, 12:17 PM Wayne Irwin
mailto:pureenergyso...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
The IQ series is not compatible with non IQ versions and would need to treated
as two separate systems with two Envoys.
Wayne Irwin
President
License #CVC56695
State Licensed Solar Contractor
Pure Energy Solar International Inc.
wa...@pureenergysolar.com
PureEnergySolar.com<http://pureenergysolar.com/>
SolarChargingStation.com<http://solarchargingstation.com/>
352 377-6527 Office
352 336-3299 Fax
352 316-1637 Cell
The Sun Is Always Shining!
The content of this message is Pure Energy Solar Confidential. If you are not
the intended recipient and have received this message in error, any use or
distribution is prohibited. Please notify me immediately by reply e-mail and
delete this message from your computer system. Thank you.
From: RE-wrenches
mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
on behalf of Tump mailto:t...@swnl.net>>
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2020 12:14 PM
To: RE-wrenches
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Old & new Enphase communication issues
Anyone have experience as to wether the Enphase Envoy w/ M215 & the new Enphase
products are compatible? I have a client that is interest in adding additional
modules & inverters and I don’t want issues regarding mapping & online info.
Thanks in advance. T
t...@swnl.net www.SWNL.net
Solarwinds Northernlights
Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
207-832-7574 Cl. 610-517-8401
Blair "TUMP" May
MAINE'S CHARTER
NABCEP"Certified PV Installer"
MAINE'S CHARTER
Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
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