Re: My I O S 1 Day Chalenge Part2

[David Chittenden]

Hi Chris,

I run my business and personal life from my iPhone and my iPad. I turn my Mac 
on around once per week.

The biggest hint I can give you is, learn to use your touch screen. I use my 
touch screen all the time. I now use braille screen input for writing, 
including this email. You may well find yourself much more productive if you 
only use your keyboard for actually writing text. This, after all, is how the 
iPad and iPhone are designed to be used.

My fiancé is a specialised teacher of blind children. Now that she has adjusted 
her teaching to having the kids use touch screen gesture commands rather than 
keyboard commands, there has been a very significant increase in the students' 
abilities to keep up with their sighted peers.

David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
Sent from my iPhone

> On 26 Aug 2015, at 02:33, Christopher Gilland  wrote:
> 
> Guys,
> 
> OK so here is my next observation working soly with I O S exclusively for 
> this 1-day challenge.
> 
> This morning, the challenge has been forcing myself to check all of my e-mail 
> from my IPad.  I am not saying that I've never done e-mail from I O S before. 
>  Remember, I am a fairly advanced I O S user, however I'm honestly starting 
> to wonder if I really am as advanced as I gave myself credit.  I definitely 
> feel very weird doing things totally on a mobile platform only.  I think it's 
> more that I know what I'm doing, but it's just a bit foreign to me, as I 
> don't admittedly do this probably near as much as I should.
> 
> Anyway, so e-mail... OK, realize that I'm basing this on doing things with 
> the IPad, not with an IPod/IPhone.  This said, I'm sure I'd run into some of 
> the same hurtles.  These things are definitely not show stoppers by any 
> means, but it's just taking some time for me to really get used to.
> 
> First off, I was under the impression that when using a bluetooth keyboard, 
> which I am, I could use some of the same keystrokes that are built into Mail 
> on the Mac.  For example, When sitting on a message in my inbox, focused on 
> the message list, I heard a message, something like, Unread, Christopher-Mark 
> Gilland: This is a test.  I also heard Voiceover tell me that actions were 
> available within my actions rotor.  I totally understand that I could have 
> pressed my down arrow key to move through these actions, however, I was under 
> the impression that if I was to simply just hit my delete key, I then could 
> delete that message with basically one keystroke.  Lamentably, this didn't 
> work.  I'm not sure if that has anything to do with the fact that I'm using 
> IMap with GMail, but I seriously doubt it.  I don't think I was in my GMail 
> mailbox.  To the best of my knowledge, I was in my unified inbox.
> 
> Finally, I found a message that I needed to read.  I pressed both my up and 
> down arrow keys together to perform a double tap on the item.  I admit I was 
> very impressed that even though the IPad uses a split screen, and therefore 
> the message list virtically stays on the left side of the screen, Voiceover 
> was smart enough to move my immediate focus to the content of the message I'd 
> just double tapped on.  I was then able to use quick nav and simply left and 
> right arrow through the message, as if I was flicking through the screen to 
> read its content.  I was blown away at how well things worked on that front!
> 
> Now came my next, "Huh?" moment.  I went to reply to the message.  I was 
> hoping, though on a mobile platform, not OSX, that Apple would have 
> implemented some keyboard hotkeys for us bluetooth users.  I therefore just 
> out of a hunch tried hitting command+R.  Well, um, duh.  That kind a didn't 
> work, darn!  So I went to the place where I logically thought the reply icon 
> would be located... below the message.  I then discovered it actually wasn't 
> down there, but instead, unlike on the IPhone, is up at the top of the screen 
> right above the message content.
> 
> So, yeah, that was a little bit confusing.
> 
> Further, I tried composing a new message from scratch.  This proved to be 
> extremely confusing!  I started by pressing command+N.  I really hoped that 
> at the very least would work.  Well, no dice.  It didn't.  Oh well.  So, I 
> hit ctrl+Up arrow to move my focus to the top of the screen.  I then used my 
> right arrow key to systematically move through the screen and locate the 
> compose button.  You know... while I'm sitting here writing this, I'm having 
> a major no duh, Shirlock, moment.  Wy the hell did I not just use the damn 
> item chooser list?  Who's the real advanced VO user now!?  LOL!  God I feel 
> stupid!  Anyway, try as I may, I couldn't find the compose button.  I knew it 
> was there, but no matter what, Voiceover wouldn't see it.  This took me on 
> quite a wild goose chase for about 5 minutes.  Finally it occured to me that 
> the unified inbox was opened in a popup 

Re: So is this list going to die or not?

[Krister Ekstrom]

And what would happen if the person whom you so desperately want to 
avoid subscribes to this new list or if someone else subscribes and does 
the exact same things as has been done here? Are we then going to start 
a third ”macvisionaries” list? And since both the lists that now 
exist apparently is going to have the same name, will they be referred 
to as ”the real macvisionaries list” and ”that list that all the 
losers are on”?

Not that i care and not that my opinion matters, do whatever you want.
/Krister


On 26 Aug 2015, at 21:59, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:

This list will continue. I have no control or wish to kill it off. 
I’m just providing a place for people to go if they’re a bit 
tired, as I am of deleting/filtering/ignoring/etc. Loosely moderated, 
but enough so that we can control whether or not people get irritated 
enough with the daily happenings to leave in droves, as has happened 
here.

Thanks,
On Aug 26, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  
wrote:


Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list 
should be or not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to 
die?


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RE: So is this list going to die or not?

[george b]

Bann you

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Krister Ekstrom
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 02:47
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: So is this list going to die or not?

And what would happen if the person whom you so desperately want to 
avoid subscribes to this new list or if someone else subscribes and does 
the exact same things as has been done here? Are we then going to start 
a third ”macvisionaries” list? And since both the lists that now 
exist apparently is going to have the same name, will they be referred 
to as ”the real macvisionaries list” and ”that list that all the 
losers are on”?
Not that i care and not that my opinion matters, do whatever you want.
/Krister


On 26 Aug 2015, at 21:59, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:

> This list will continue. I have no control or wish to kill it off. 
> I’m just providing a place for people to go if they’re a bit 
> tired, as I am of deleting/filtering/ignoring/etc. Loosely moderated, 
> but enough so that we can control whether or not people get irritated 
> enough with the daily happenings to leave in droves, as has happened 
> here.
> Thanks,
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  
>> wrote:
>>
>> Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list 
>> should be or not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to 
>> die?
>>
>> -- 
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>
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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Caitlyn Furness]

For Fusion, you probably have to go to their incredible inaccessable web site 
and get the new version.  In the notice about the fusion update, there should 
be a button to click on that says something like “learn more”, or “update now”. 
this will take you to their web site.

I am still using fusion 6.x so if they’ve changed things since then I can’t 
help more..
Cait

> On Aug 26, 2015, at 9:47 PM, Juliette Swiler  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> My first question is I got an update notice for Fusion and I only see a learn 
> more button, but no option to install it. How do I go about this? Also, in 
> iTunes, I am having a strange problem where my podcasts will not update 
> properly. However, they update properly via the podcasts app on my iPhone.
> Thanks.
> 
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Re: Moderator Note - Important -was- Re: So is this list going to die or not?

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I wasn’t going to chime in here but that was very well said.
Thanks.
/A
> 27 aug. 2015 kl. 01:11 skrev Cara Quinn :
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> firstly, this list is not going to die.
> 
> Now, to be completely frank and honest with you all. I have been in the 
> hospital for days now, visiting with a very dear one to me, who is passing 
> away.
> 
> So honestly, I cannot address any of these matters right now.
> 
> The fact is, you are all adults and you know enough to ignore posts or 
> posters who simply want (for whatever reason) to incite or stir the pot so to 
> speak.
> 
> So if there is a message you do not wish to read, or do not agree with, just 
> delete it and move on. This is the adult thing to do.
> 
> Neither a list owner or moderator are magic people who make everything 
> alright. Yes, we can ban people, etc, but in the end, this comes down to you 
> all managing yourselves in a way which you all are proud of.
> 
> that is what makes this list worth something.
> 
> So if you feel this list is a resource you wish to preserve and help to grow, 
> as you have been doing now for years, then just simply act in accordance with 
> those beliefs which you know to be right and the rest will follow.
> 
> I promise you, I will address this more fully when I can. I am sure (or at 
> least would hope) that in light of these circumstances, that you would 
> understand.
> 
> My sincerest apologies that there have been issues of late. Some of these are 
> actually being dealt with already, in the background, but the fact that this 
> topic exists says that you need more.
> 
> I will do more as soon as I can.
> 
> For now, please use your own good judgement and simply act as you know you 
> should, and this list will be the kind and helping place that it has been.
> 
> Thank you all for reading this and I will be in touch again soon.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Cara
> ---
> iOS design and development - LookTel.com
> ---
> View my Online Portfolio at:
> 
> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
> 
> Follow me on Twitter!
> 
> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
> 
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list should be 
> or not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to die?
> 
> -- 
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> 
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anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

[Donna Goodin]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if there's a way to do this? I'm not talking about touching it 
with your palm, but actually putting it on mute, the way you can do with your 
phone, so the phone doesn't ring, messages don't ping, etc.
thanks,
Donna

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Re: I forgot a bluetooth command.

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

I believe vo home and end do this, but it might be pageUp instead. Try arrow 
with option for the second problem.


Jonathan Cohn 

> On Aug 25, 2015, at 1:09 PM, Chris Gilland  wrote:
> 
> I seem to be drawing a mental blank.
> 
> How do you go about bringing down the notification Center and iOS with a 
> Bluetooth keyboard?
> 
> also, is there a way that one can bring up the control center.
> 
> actually, come to think of it, here are two more that I've forgotten? Is 
> there a way to do the equivalent of a three finger flick up in a three finger 
> flick down to scroll the screen?
> 
> thank you very much for any help. It is greatly appreciated!
> 
> Chris.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> -- 
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Re: Moderator Note - Important -was- Re: So is this list going to die or not?

[Scott Granados]

+1

Well stated.

> On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:11 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> firstly, this list is not going to die.
> 
> Now, to be completely frank and honest with you all. I have been in the 
> hospital for days now, visiting with a very dear one to me, who is passing 
> away.
> 
> So honestly, I cannot address any of these matters right now.
> 
> The fact is, you are all adults and you know enough to ignore posts or 
> posters who simply want (for whatever reason) to incite or stir the pot so to 
> speak.
> 
> So if there is a message you do not wish to read, or do not agree with, just 
> delete it and move on. This is the adult thing to do.
> 
> Neither a list owner or moderator are magic people who make everything 
> alright. Yes, we can ban people, etc, but in the end, this comes down to you 
> all managing yourselves in a way which you all are proud of.
> 
> that is what makes this list worth something.
> 
> So if you feel this list is a resource you wish to preserve and help to grow, 
> as you have been doing now for years, then just simply act in accordance with 
> those beliefs which you know to be right and the rest will follow.
> 
> I promise you, I will address this more fully when I can. I am sure (or at 
> least would hope) that in light of these circumstances, that you would 
> understand.
> 
> My sincerest apologies that there have been issues of late. Some of these are 
> actually being dealt with already, in the background, but the fact that this 
> topic exists says that you need more.
> 
> I will do more as soon as I can.
> 
> For now, please use your own good judgement and simply act as you know you 
> should, and this list will be the kind and helping place that it has been.
> 
> Thank you all for reading this and I will be in touch again soon.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Cara
> ---
> iOS design and development - LookTel.com
> ---
> View my Online Portfolio at:
> 
> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
> 
> Follow me on Twitter!
> 
> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
> 
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list should be 
> or not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to die?
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "MacVisionaries" group.
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 
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RE: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

[george b]

Donna,



How to mute your Apple Watch on the Apple Watch

1.Press the Digital Crown until you see the watch face.
2.Swipe up to reveal the Settings Glance. (if you get a different glance just 
swipe left until you get to Settings.)
3.Tap the Mute button.





H^TH

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 04:54
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

Hi all,

Does anyone know if there's a way to do this? I'm not talking about touching it 
with your palm, but actually putting it on mute, the way you can do with your 
phone, so the phone doesn't ring, messages don't ping, etc.
thanks,
Donna

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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Scott Granados]

So first, you have to go to the web site and buy the next update.  Updates for 
Fusion are generally not free.  The learn more button takes you to a page that 
generally gives you a discounted price since you owned the previous version.  
It is not like other packages though where you hit update and there’s an option 
to download the latest release and automatically install.

Hope that helps.



> On Aug 26, 2015, at 9:47 PM, Juliette Swiler  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> My first question is I got an update notice for Fusion and I only see a learn 
> more button, but no option to install it. How do I go about this? Also, in 
> iTunes, I am having a strange problem where my podcasts will not update 
> properly. However, they update properly via the podcasts app on my iPhone.
> Thanks.
> 
> -- 
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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Scott Granados]

On the Mac the VMWare site isn’t inaccessible, at least it wasn’t.  There’s a 
lot of stuff at the top that you have to scroll through and or find the heading 
for the actual content but in general it was easy to use.

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:07 AM, Caitlyn Furness  
> wrote:
> 
> For Fusion, you probably have to go to their incredible inaccessable web site 
> and get the new version.  In the notice about the fusion update, there should 
> be a button to click on that says something like “learn more”, or “update 
> now”. this will take you to their web site.
> 
> I am still using fusion 6.x so if they’ve changed things since then I can’t 
> help more..
> Cait
> 
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 9:47 PM, Juliette Swiler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> My first question is I got an update notice for Fusion and I only see a 
>> learn more button, but no option to install it. How do I go about this? 
>> Also, in iTunes, I am having a strange problem where my podcasts will not 
>> update properly. However, they update properly via the podcasts app on my 
>> iPhone.
>> Thanks.
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
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Re: So is this list going to die or not?

[Scott Granados]

If an island is infested with dangerous creatures I’m selling hunting trips to 
the island and all the supplies to go with from bullets to boats.

 
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 5:26 PM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Well, if an island is infested with dangerous creatures, and no one can even 
> get into the island, would it not be best to destroy the old and find a new 
> one?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>> 
>> I did not realize the list was spoiled smiles.
>> Is this not a decision by  you, choosing to think the list is  spoiled, , 
>> regardless of the bad..ahem apple?
>> Such can be ignored can it not?  creating a new list just  rewards their 
>> behavior... does it not?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, 26 Aug 2015, Eric Oyen wrote:
>>> 
>>> meh. true. However, a slightly more moderated approach will keep the bad 
>>> apples (bad joke) from spoiling the rest. :)
>>> 
>>> -eric
>>> 
 On Aug 26, 2015, at 1:47 PM, Karen Lewellen wrote:
 
 Actually, i fail to understand how making anew list will impact  anything 
 really.
 As I understand it, so much that is the issue is based on behavior...and 
 humans will show up wherever the list goes smiles.
 Kare
 
 
> On Wed, 26 Aug 2015, Eric Oyen wrote:
> 
> probably not. However, it doesn't hurt to have a backup.
> 
> -eric
> 
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu wrote:
>> 
>> Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list 
>> should be or not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to 
>> die?
>> 
>> --
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> 
>>> 
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Re: Moderator Note - Important -was- Re: So is this list going to die or not?

[sadam . lists]

Very well put. 

Sent from my iPhone 

-- 



> On 27 Aug 2015, at 9:38 PM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I wasn’t going to chime in here but that was very well said.
> Thanks.
> /A
>> 27 aug. 2015 kl. 01:11 skrev Cara Quinn :
>> 
>> Hello All,
>> 
>> firstly, this list is not going to die.
>> 
>> Now, to be completely frank and honest with you all. I have been in the 
>> hospital for days now, visiting with a very dear one to me, who is passing 
>> away.
>> 
>> So honestly, I cannot address any of these matters right now.
>> 
>> The fact is, you are all adults and you know enough to ignore posts or 
>> posters who simply want (for whatever reason) to incite or stir the pot so 
>> to speak.
>> 
>> So if there is a message you do not wish to read, or do not agree with, just 
>> delete it and move on. This is the adult thing to do.
>> 
>> Neither a list owner or moderator are magic people who make everything 
>> alright. Yes, we can ban people, etc, but in the end, this comes down to you 
>> all managing yourselves in a way which you all are proud of.
>> 
>> that is what makes this list worth something.
>> 
>> So if you feel this list is a resource you wish to preserve and help to 
>> grow, as you have been doing now for years, then just simply act in 
>> accordance with those beliefs which you know to be right and the rest will 
>> follow.
>> 
>> I promise you, I will address this more fully when I can. I am sure (or at 
>> least would hope) that in light of these circumstances, that you would 
>> understand.
>> 
>> My sincerest apologies that there have been issues of late. Some of these 
>> are actually being dealt with already, in the background, but the fact that 
>> this topic exists says that you need more.
>> 
>> I will do more as soon as I can.
>> 
>> For now, please use your own good judgement and simply act as you know you 
>> should, and this list will be the kind and helping place that it has been.
>> 
>> Thank you all for reading this and I will be in touch again soon.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> Cara
>> ---
>> iOS design and development - LookTel.com
>> ---
>> View my Online Portfolio at:
>> 
>> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
>> 
>> Follow me on Twitter!
>> 
>> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
>> 
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list should be 
>> or not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to die?
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> 
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> 
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Re: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

[Donna Goodin]

How did you find that? :)  I was googling this before I posted, but didn't see 
it.  thanks!
Donna
> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:06 AM, george b  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> 
> 
> 
> How to mute your Apple Watch on the Apple Watch
> 
> 1.Press the Digital Crown until you see the watch face.
> 2.Swipe up to reveal the Settings Glance. (if you get a different glance just 
> swipe left until you get to Settings.)
> 3.Tap the Mute button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> H^TH
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 04:54
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Does anyone know if there's a way to do this? I'm not talking about touching 
> it with your palm, but actually putting it on mute, the way you can do with 
> your phone, so the phone doesn't ring, messages don't ping, etc.
> thanks,
> Donna
> 
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Re: So is this list going to die or not?

[Scott Granados]

Will the real Slim Shady please stand up?

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 5:46 AM, Krister Ekstrom  
> wrote:
> 
> And what would happen if the person whom you so desperately want to avoid 
> subscribes to this new list or if someone else subscribes and does the exact 
> same things as has been done here? Are we then going to start a third 
> ”macvisionaries” list? And since both the lists that now exist apparently is 
> going to have the same name, will they be referred to as ”the real 
> macvisionaries list” and ”that list that all the losers are on”?
> Not that i care and not that my opinion matters, do whatever you want.
> /Krister
> 
> 
> On 26 Aug 2015, at 21:59, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:
> 
>> This list will continue. I have no control or wish to kill it off. I’m just 
>> providing a place for people to go if they’re a bit tired, as I am of 
>> deleting/filtering/ignoring/etc. Loosely moderated, but enough so that we 
>> can control whether or not people get irritated enough with the daily 
>> happenings to leave in droves, as has happened here.
>> Thanks,
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list should 
>>> be or not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to die?
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>> 
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Re: Moderator Note - Important -was- Re: So is this list going to die or not?

[Donna Goodin]

It is well-stated, and I'm sorry for what Cara is dealing with.  However, she 
still needs to let go of this list.
donna
> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:04 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> +1
> 
> Well stated.
> 
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:11 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>> 
>> Hello All,
>> 
>> firstly, this list is not going to die.
>> 
>> Now, to be completely frank and honest with you all. I have been in the 
>> hospital for days now, visiting with a very dear one to me, who is passing 
>> away.
>> 
>> So honestly, I cannot address any of these matters right now.
>> 
>> The fact is, you are all adults and you know enough to ignore posts or 
>> posters who simply want (for whatever reason) to incite or stir the pot so 
>> to speak.
>> 
>> So if there is a message you do not wish to read, or do not agree with, just 
>> delete it and move on. This is the adult thing to do.
>> 
>> Neither a list owner or moderator are magic people who make everything 
>> alright. Yes, we can ban people, etc, but in the end, this comes down to you 
>> all managing yourselves in a way which you all are proud of.
>> 
>> that is what makes this list worth something.
>> 
>> So if you feel this list is a resource you wish to preserve and help to 
>> grow, as you have been doing now for years, then just simply act in 
>> accordance with those beliefs which you know to be right and the rest will 
>> follow.
>> 
>> I promise you, I will address this more fully when I can. I am sure (or at 
>> least would hope) that in light of these circumstances, that you would 
>> understand.
>> 
>> My sincerest apologies that there have been issues of late. Some of these 
>> are actually being dealt with already, in the background, but the fact that 
>> this topic exists says that you need more.
>> 
>> I will do more as soon as I can.
>> 
>> For now, please use your own good judgement and simply act as you know you 
>> should, and this list will be the kind and helping place that it has been.
>> 
>> Thank you all for reading this and I will be in touch again soon.
>> 
>> Sincerely,
>> 
>> Cara
>> ---
>> iOS design and development - LookTel.com
>> ---
>> View my Online Portfolio at:
>> 
>> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
>> 
>> Follow me on Twitter!
>> 
>> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
>> 
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list should be 
>> or not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to die?
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "MacVisionaries" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
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> 
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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Gah! I hate this upgrade treadmill. All this does is support slightly improved 
graphics APIs and Windows 10. Also VMWare’s cloudy solutions which are now 
integrated into the product. Will I need it? Well, I don’t really know, but 
since I also have to upgrade Workstation to 12 I’m not in the least bit 
enthusiastic about it. Why can’t VMWare make a hypervisor that _doesn’t_ need 
upgrading every five minutes?

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snow leppard 10.6.3 to 10.6.8

[Singing Sparrow]

I have been talking to a friend on line that is trying to update to the 
last version of snow leppard will they have to purchase the 10.6.8 
update or can they still  update through software update?


They are trying to resolve some safari issues and other things they have 
noticed.
I have told them about Yosemity and they are willing to do something 
like this but everything to them at this point is very frustrating to 
them. and they are about  to go out of there  wits with trying to figure 
things out, I told them to be patient and go slowly at it for that is 
the way of the force.


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RE: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

[george b]

I typed in google

How to mute a apple watch and it was the first that came up

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] 
On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 05:23
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

How did you find that? :)  I was googling this before I posted, but didn't see 
it.  thanks!
Donna
> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:06 AM, george b  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> 
> 
> 
> How to mute your Apple Watch on the Apple Watch
> 
> 1.Press the Digital Crown until you see the watch face.
> 2.Swipe up to reveal the Settings Glance. (if you get a different glance just 
> swipe left until you get to Settings.)
> 3.Tap the Mute button.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> H^TH
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 04:54
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Does anyone know if there's a way to do this? I'm not talking about touching 
> it with your palm, but actually putting it on mute, the way you can do with 
> your phone, so the phone doesn't ring, messages don't ping, etc.
> thanks,
> Donna
> 
> -- 
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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Scott Granados]

Because we live in the real world and people come up with improved features 
over time.

That’s just silly.

Of course there will be upgrades.  Features change, computing needs change, 
operating systems change.  Is code today sloppy sure I think so but of course 
there will be improvements whether the code is well written or being cleaned up 
from sloppy development efforts.

Maybe I’m missing your point, entirely possible I don’t claim to be the 
sharpest tack in the box but I don’t have a problem updating or not updating 
depending on the need.

In general though and you may disagree but I like the VMWare products.  I’ve 
been exposed to Xen at my present gig and boy do I miss VMWare.:)

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 8:24 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Gah! I hate this upgrade treadmill. All this does is support slightly 
> improved graphics APIs and Windows 10. Also VMWare’s cloudy solutions which 
> are now integrated into the product. Will I need it? Well, I don’t really 
> know, but since I also have to upgrade Workstation to 12 I’m not in the least 
> bit enthusiastic about it. Why can’t VMWare make a hypervisor that _doesn’t_ 
> need upgrading every five minutes?
> 
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Re: Moderator Note - Important -was- Re: So is this list going to die or not?

[Scott Granados]

Or appoint a stand in but yes I would agree.

If we need moderation at all.

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 8:24 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> It is well-stated, and I'm sorry for what Cara is dealing with.  However, she 
> still needs to let go of this list.
> donna
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:04 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> +1
>> 
>> Well stated.
>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 7:11 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello All,
>>> 
>>> firstly, this list is not going to die.
>>> 
>>> Now, to be completely frank and honest with you all. I have been in the 
>>> hospital for days now, visiting with a very dear one to me, who is passing 
>>> away.
>>> 
>>> So honestly, I cannot address any of these matters right now.
>>> 
>>> The fact is, you are all adults and you know enough to ignore posts or 
>>> posters who simply want (for whatever reason) to incite or stir the pot so 
>>> to speak.
>>> 
>>> So if there is a message you do not wish to read, or do not agree with, 
>>> just delete it and move on. This is the adult thing to do.
>>> 
>>> Neither a list owner or moderator are magic people who make everything 
>>> alright. Yes, we can ban people, etc, but in the end, this comes down to 
>>> you all managing yourselves in a way which you all are proud of.
>>> 
>>> that is what makes this list worth something.
>>> 
>>> So if you feel this list is a resource you wish to preserve and help to 
>>> grow, as you have been doing now for years, then just simply act in 
>>> accordance with those beliefs which you know to be right and the rest will 
>>> follow.
>>> 
>>> I promise you, I will address this more fully when I can. I am sure (or at 
>>> least would hope) that in light of these circumstances, that you would 
>>> understand.
>>> 
>>> My sincerest apologies that there have been issues of late. Some of these 
>>> are actually being dealt with already, in the background, but the fact that 
>>> this topic exists says that you need more.
>>> 
>>> I will do more as soon as I can.
>>> 
>>> For now, please use your own good judgement and simply act as you know you 
>>> should, and this list will be the kind and helping place that it has been.
>>> 
>>> Thank you all for reading this and I will be in touch again soon.
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> 
>>> Cara
>>> ---
>>> iOS design and development - LookTel.com
>>> ---
>>> View my Online Portfolio at:
>>> 
>>> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
>>> 
>>> Follow me on Twitter!
>>> 
>>> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
>>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list should 
>>> be or not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to die?
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>> 
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Re: snow leppard 10.6.3 to 10.6.8

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Yes, you can update to 10.6.8 from 10.6.3 for free using Software Update.  Once 
that’s done you will have the Mac App Store, with which you download and 
install Yosemite or, if your hardware doesn’t support that, Lion, Mountain 
Lion, or Mavericks (but most likely Lion).  You may have to put down more money 
for versions prior to Yosemite, however; this you do through Apple’s online 
store.

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Re: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

[Donna Goodin]

That's funny.  That's exactly what I typed.  Ah, the mysteries of google. :)
Take care,
Donna
> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:27 AM, george b  wrote:
> 
> I typed in google
> 
> How to mute a apple watch and it was the first that came up
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 05:23
> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?
> 
> How did you find that? :)  I was googling this before I posted, but didn't 
> see it.  thanks!
> Donna
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:06 AM, george b  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> How to mute your Apple Watch on the Apple Watch
>> 
>> 1.Press the Digital Crown until you see the watch face.
>> 2.Swipe up to reveal the Settings Glance. (if you get a different glance 
>> just swipe left until you get to Settings.)
>> 3.Tap the Mute button.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> H^TH
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 04:54
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Does anyone know if there's a way to do this? I'm not talking about touching 
>> it with your palm, but actually putting it on mute, the way you can do with 
>> your phone, so the phone doesn't ring, messages don't ping, etc.
>> thanks,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

But the emulated hardware is sufficient to run Win10.  Why on earth is a PC 
emulator struggling to support a newer OS when that OS would run on 
contemporary hardware of the same age as the current version of VMWare?

Even if there are valid reasons, it’s been less than 12 months.  VMWare makes 
money from its server business and their desktop products are fairly marginal.  
And it has competition from other vendors, notably Parallels on the Mac (which 
plays the same silly game), VirtualBox (less good but free) and the bare-metal 
hypervisors which everybody is just giving away now because the technology 
won’t fly unless it’s free.  It’s a good time to be a desktop Linux user so you 
can use KVM. :)

So yeah, grrr.  Bloody annoying.  Better get out my wallet.

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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Devin Prater]

Its still gotta support El Capitan.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:37 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> But the emulated hardware is sufficient to run Win10.  Why on earth is a PC 
> emulator struggling to support a newer OS when that OS would run on 
> contemporary hardware of the same age as the current version of VMWare?
> 
> Even if there are valid reasons, it’s been less than 12 months.  VMWare makes 
> money from its server business and their desktop products are fairly 
> marginal.  And it has competition from other vendors, notably Parallels on 
> the Mac (which plays the same silly game), VirtualBox (less good but free) 
> and the bare-metal hypervisors which everybody is just giving away now 
> because the technology won’t fly unless it’s free.  It’s a good time to be a 
> desktop Linux user so you can use KVM. :)
> 
> So yeah, grrr.  Bloody annoying.  Better get out my wallet.
> 
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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Scott Granados]

I like this response.  Thank you!

Definitely well thought out.

So you raise very good points.  I’m just going to counter and say that it seems 
to me like they streamline the code and optimize performance to the latest 
hardware and software out there but that’s a marginal gain and I’d wonder if 
the user really experiences much improvement.

Some of the updates to Fusion I’ve done really did seem to help with 
things like battery life and other tangible benefits but using your logic, why 
do we really need a hypervisor at all.  Why can’t some means of 
compartmentalizing operating systems and running them in parallel be handled 
right in the OS or in hardware.  Good point!

Since you mentioned parallels?  Is that accessible now?  I always went with 
fusion because I had experienced parallels and had bad luck with VO.  Has this 
changed?

Do you have a hypervisor you like to use that’s better than fusion or do you 
just suck it up and pay the money for fusion like I do?

Thanks for the good points to think about.



> On Aug 27, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> But the emulated hardware is sufficient to run Win10.  Why on earth is a PC 
> emulator struggling to support a newer OS when that OS would run on 
> contemporary hardware of the same age as the current version of VMWare?
> 
> Even if there are valid reasons, it’s been less than 12 months.  VMWare makes 
> money from its server business and their desktop products are fairly 
> marginal.  And it has competition from other vendors, notably Parallels on 
> the Mac (which plays the same silly game), VirtualBox (less good but free) 
> and the bare-metal hypervisors which everybody is just giving away now 
> because the technology won’t fly unless it’s free.  It’s a good time to be a 
> desktop Linux user so you can use KVM. :)
> 
> So yeah, grrr.  Bloody annoying.  Better get out my wallet.
> 
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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Scott Granados]

And is that the worst name for an operating system ever or what?

:)

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> Its still gotta support El Capitan.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:37 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> But the emulated hardware is sufficient to run Win10.  Why on earth is a PC 
>> emulator struggling to support a newer OS when that OS would run on 
>> contemporary hardware of the same age as the current version of VMWare?
>> 
>> Even if there are valid reasons, it’s been less than 12 months.  VMWare 
>> makes money from its server business and their desktop products are fairly 
>> marginal.  And it has competition from other vendors, notably Parallels on 
>> the Mac (which plays the same silly game), VirtualBox (less good but free) 
>> and the bare-metal hypervisors which everybody is just giving away now 
>> because the technology won’t fly unless it’s free.  It’s a good time to be a 
>> desktop Linux user so you can use KVM. :)
>> 
>> So yeah, grrr.  Bloody annoying.  Better get out my wallet.
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Devin Prater]

I've tried Parallels before, like 3 months ago, but no luck with VO. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:42 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> I like this response.  Thank you!
> 
> Definitely well thought out.
> 
> So you raise very good points.  I’m just going to counter and say that it 
> seems to me like they streamline the code and optimize performance to the 
> latest hardware and software out there but that’s a marginal gain and I’d 
> wonder if the user really experiences much improvement.
> 
>Some of the updates to Fusion I’ve done really did seem to help with 
> things like battery life and other tangible benefits but using your logic, 
> why do we really need a hypervisor at all.  Why can’t some means of 
> compartmentalizing operating systems and running them in parallel be handled 
> right in the OS or in hardware.  Good point!
> 
> Since you mentioned parallels?  Is that accessible now?  I always went with 
> fusion because I had experienced parallels and had bad luck with VO.  Has 
> this changed?
> 
> Do you have a hypervisor you like to use that’s better than fusion or do you 
> just suck it up and pay the money for fusion like I do?
> 
> Thanks for the good points to think about.
> 
> 
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> But the emulated hardware is sufficient to run Win10.  Why on earth is a PC 
>> emulator struggling to support a newer OS when that OS would run on 
>> contemporary hardware of the same age as the current version of VMWare?
>> 
>> Even if there are valid reasons, it’s been less than 12 months.  VMWare 
>> makes money from its server business and their desktop products are fairly 
>> marginal.  And it has competition from other vendors, notably Parallels on 
>> the Mac (which plays the same silly game), VirtualBox (less good but free) 
>> and the bare-metal hypervisors which everybody is just giving away now 
>> because the technology won’t fly unless it’s free.  It’s a good time to be a 
>> desktop Linux user so you can use KVM. :)
>> 
>> So yeah, grrr.  Bloody annoying.  Better get out my wallet.
>> 
>> -- 
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> 
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Re: My I O S 1 Day Chalenge Part2

[Scott Granados]

So on the braille front?

Is it me or does braille support on the IOS devices like the pad and phone work 
so much better than it does on the Mac with VO?

What’s that about?

I just got a braille device and I’m actually thinking (perish the thought) of 
installing windows in a VM so I can use it with JFW instead of VoiceOver on the 
computer side.

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 3:18 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> I run my business and personal life from my iPhone and my iPad. I turn my Mac 
> on around once per week.
> 
> The biggest hint I can give you is, learn to use your touch screen. I use my 
> touch screen all the time. I now use braille screen input for writing, 
> including this email. You may well find yourself much more productive if you 
> only use your keyboard for actually writing text. This, after all, is how the 
> iPad and iPhone are designed to be used.
> 
> My fiancé is a specialised teacher of blind children. Now that she has 
> adjusted her teaching to having the kids use touch screen gesture commands 
> rather than keyboard commands, there has been a very significant increase in 
> the students' abilities to keep up with their sighted peers.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 26 Aug 2015, at 02:33, Christopher Gilland  wrote:
>> 
>> Guys,
>> 
>> OK so here is my next observation working soly with I O S exclusively for 
>> this 1-day challenge.
>> 
>> This morning, the challenge has been forcing myself to check all of my 
>> e-mail from my IPad.  I am not saying that I've never done e-mail from I O S 
>> before.  Remember, I am a fairly advanced I O S user, however I'm honestly 
>> starting to wonder if I really am as advanced as I gave myself credit.  I 
>> definitely feel very weird doing things totally on a mobile platform only.  
>> I think it's more that I know what I'm doing, but it's just a bit foreign to 
>> me, as I don't admittedly do this probably near as much as I should.
>> 
>> Anyway, so e-mail... OK, realize that I'm basing this on doing things with 
>> the IPad, not with an IPod/IPhone.  This said, I'm sure I'd run into some of 
>> the same hurtles.  These things are definitely not show stoppers by any 
>> means, but it's just taking some time for me to really get used to.
>> 
>> First off, I was under the impression that when using a bluetooth keyboard, 
>> which I am, I could use some of the same keystrokes that are built into Mail 
>> on the Mac.  For example, When sitting on a message in my inbox, focused on 
>> the message list, I heard a message, something like, Unread, 
>> Christopher-Mark Gilland: This is a test.  I also heard Voiceover tell me 
>> that actions were available within my actions rotor.  I totally understand 
>> that I could have pressed my down arrow key to move through these actions, 
>> however, I was under the impression that if I was to simply just hit my 
>> delete key, I then could delete that message with basically one keystroke.  
>> Lamentably, this didn't work.  I'm not sure if that has anything to do with 
>> the fact that I'm using IMap with GMail, but I seriously doubt it.  I don't 
>> think I was in my GMail mailbox.  To the best of my knowledge, I was in my 
>> unified inbox.
>> 
>> Finally, I found a message that I needed to read.  I pressed both my up and 
>> down arrow keys together to perform a double tap on the item.  I admit I was 
>> very impressed that even though the IPad uses a split screen, and therefore 
>> the message list virtically stays on the left side of the screen, Voiceover 
>> was smart enough to move my immediate focus to the content of the message 
>> I'd just double tapped on.  I was then able to use quick nav and simply left 
>> and right arrow through the message, as if I was flicking through the screen 
>> to read its content.  I was blown away at how well things worked on that 
>> front!
>> 
>> Now came my next, "Huh?" moment.  I went to reply to the message.  I was 
>> hoping, though on a mobile platform, not OSX, that Apple would have 
>> implemented some keyboard hotkeys for us bluetooth users.  I therefore just 
>> out of a hunch tried hitting command+R.  Well, um, duh.  That kind a didn't 
>> work, darn!  So I went to the place where I logically thought the reply icon 
>> would be located... below the message.  I then discovered it actually wasn't 
>> down there, but instead, unlike on the IPhone, is up at the top of the 
>> screen right above the message content.
>> 
>> So, yeah, that was a little bit confusing.
>> 
>> Further, I tried composing a new message from scratch.  This proved to be 
>> extremely confusing!  I started by pressing command+N.  I really hoped that 
>> at the very least would work.  Well, no dice.  It didn't.  Oh well.  So, I 
>> hit ctrl+Up arrow to move my focus to the top of the screen.  I then used my 
>> right arrow key to systematically move through the screen and locate the 

Re: a new macvisionaries list

[Scott Granados]

Good point

There’s also the mac for the blind site that’s pretty low traffic but has a 
great signal to noise ratio and a very light moderation.

I believe it’s mac4thebl...@freelists.org 


> On Aug 26, 2015, at 3:07 PM, Anne Robertson  wrote:
> 
> Hello Tyler,
> 
> Are you aware that there are several other lists for VoiceOver users? The one 
> that comes to mind immediately is Mac-Access, which is a very quiet list and 
> I know there are others.
> 
> I agree with Jonathan that using the name MacVisionaries is dishonest and you 
> should find your own list name.
> 
> I’ve been on this list since very shortly after it was created in 2005, as 
> have several others, and I have no intention of letting one person drive me 
> away.
> 
> I run my own VoiceOver list, but it wouldn’t interest you as it’s in French, 
> but we’re a very lively community and politely moderated by a very able 
> person. But we too have had our problems over the seven years.
> 
> I hadn’t intended to say anything on this thread, but someone suggested that 
> Cara was the original owner of this list, which is far from the truth. The 
> original owner was Saqib Sheikh, but where he is now, I have no idea.
> 
> Well, good luck with your new list, but please rename it.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Anne
> 
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Re: a new macvisionaries list

[Scott Granados]

First off, nothing Chris says or could say offends me or for that matter 
nothing anyone says on any of these mailing lists offends me or would chase me 
away.
Secondly, I’ve actually taken the time to talk to Chris off line and 
also seen a whole different side to his responses on another list where there 
was a lot of attacking going on so I have radically changed my opinion of him 
from when I first ran in to him some time ago.  Does he push the boundaries and 
get out of line sometimes, sure but so do I and a lot of people.
All moderation means to me is someone either can’t police themselves, 
they need to have their hand held and content managed for them and or someone 
has a power trip they need to feed and wants their own personal kingdom to rule 
over and dictate to everyone else what they will say or how they will act etc.  
No thank you.
I’d rather have a little noise and exercise my delete finger than have 
someone else dictate content standards to me.
 
 
So my answer to you is no.


Anything Chris 
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:59 PM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
> 
> Scott,
> 
> What are you really ttryint to get to? Take the same home analogy, or let’s 
> say the social club analogy. A majority is agreeing that this guy is 
> detrimental. It’s been months like this and in recent dates taking a 
> culminating effect of driving the discussion towards what to do with him, on 
> and off list. Your words are also getting more radical, mentioning churches 
> etc. Don’t you think its time to consider that maybe something does need to 
> be done?
> 
> 
>> On 27/08/2015, at 2:40 AM, Scott Granados > > wrote:
>> 
>> I think its funny how people like to push the responsibility on to someone 
>> else instead of deal with it themselves.
>> 
>> If you don’t want to invite someone in to your home then don’t.  Nobody 
>> forces you to read anything.
>> 
>> These are the same busy bodies who want content pulled on TV because someone 
>> said something they don’t like or it offends some arbitrary religious value 
>> or another.
>>  Oh I don’t like what he said in that song, ban it, moderate it, my view 
>> is the right view so all others be damned.
>> 
>> wow
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Mary Otten >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> For whatever it may be worth, I really think the best thing would be to 
>>> have new moderators on this list, rather than fragmenting the community. I 
>>> know that is not a new idea as several have mentioned the same idea. I also 
>>> don't agree with the wild West approach. I'm sorry. But when you send email 
>>> to a list of several hundred people, you are coming into their homes. And 
>>> you did not have a right to abuse that privilege. Nor should several 
>>> hundred people be expected to write filtersbecause of one or two outliers 
>>> who make itunpleasant  for everybody. If a list is said to be moderated, 
>>> people who signed up for that list have a right to expect that the rules 
>>> will be followed and that those who do not follow them consistently will be 
>>> taken off the list. If you like unmoderated lists, start one, or, if you 
>>> want to check one out, go check out the eyes freelist. The last time I was 
>>> on there, which was admittedly many months ago, it was horrible. I'm not 
>>> arguing for one strike and you're out or heavy-handed moderation. But when 
>>> it becomes clear overtime that a few people simply cannot follow simple 
>>> guidelines, then a moderator needs to take action, or a new moderator needs 
>>> to be found. So, I guess I'm joining my voice with the chorus of those who 
>>> say that in the best of all worlds, this list would remain but would have 
>>> an active moderator who did his or her job.
>>> Mary
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:56 AM, Littlefield, Tyler >>> > wrote:
 
 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1
 
 Hello Scott,
 There's a vast difference in overly moderating and moderating of those
 who make the community unpleasant for others. For example, should
 someone receive an email cursing at them (which happens here pretty
 frequently), the problem gets solved with a moderation. Should it
 continue, said individual is removed from the community.
 
 I'm not proposing that overly prolicing makes a difference, just that
 it's possible with an active list owner to create a community
 conducive to a place where people can ask questions and provide help,
 etc. Can you imagine how much cleaner our inboxes would be (I myself
 am somewhat at fault here, as I've said) if we were to mostly
 elimenate all the side bickering?
 On 8/26/2015 7:46 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> I’m not sure moderation = good community.  That’s like saying
> policing = a good community and I’d dare say the folks of Ferguson
> or South Caro

Re: two questions about the Mac

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

I suppose, yeah.  And guest support.  Also Apple now have an API for building 
hypervisor applications on top of the OS without needing kernel-space helpers; 
I wonder where they’re going with that.

I’ll be looking out for any info about running 7 for a while longer, but I’ve 
made a note to pay the toll.

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Re: a new macvisionaries list

[Scott Granados]

Because we and Chris’s ISP is in a free country.

We do not legislate speech here.  Our founders created the first amendment to 
support freedom of expression and the press.  They made this the first 
amendment because it was to them the most important freedom that needed to be 
codified.  Hate speech is protected speech.  Nazi’s marching in Illinois and 
all that.  It’s been protected and the courts have upheld this protection for 
decades if not centuries now.  There are no authorities to call.  Carriers 
aren’t going to pull access unless a direct real threat was made or some sort 
of crime like publishing child pornography which is definitely not protected 
speech is committed.
This is not the case in other countries but Chris is a US citizen and protected 
by the constitution.

Note this only applies to the carriers, especially carriers that receive 
government money and or have common carrier status etc.  Mailing list 
moderators and such can do what they want and ban whom ever they wish because 
protected speech is only protected from government limitation rather than 
private individuals.  Individuals can dictate what ever standards they wish on 
their own property of which a mailing list could be equated to their property.

 

> On Aug 26, 2015, at 5:28 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> well, if this party has threatened or used hate speech, you report  them to 
> the  authorities.  One does not well build a new house instead.
> ..not that you were asking me of course smiles.
> Why not report their conduct to the Internet provider?
> 
> 
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2015, Yuma Decaux wrote:
> 
>> Scott,
>> 
>> What are you really ttryint to get to? Take the same home analogy, or let’s 
>> say the social club analogy. A majority is agreeing that this guy is 
>> detrimental. It’s been months like this and in recent dates taking a 
>> culminating effect of driving the discussion towards what to do with him, on 
>> and off list. Your words are also getting more radical, mentioning churches 
>> etc. Don’t you think its time to consider that maybe something does need to 
>> be done?
>> 
>> 
>>> On 27/08/2015, at 2:40 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think its funny how people like to push the responsibility on to someone 
>>> else instead of deal with it themselves.
>>> 
>>> If you don’t want to invite someone in to your home then don’t.  Nobody 
>>> forces you to read anything.
>>> 
>>> These are the same busy bodies who want content pulled on TV because 
>>> someone said something they don’t like or it offends some arbitrary 
>>> religious value or another.
>>> Oh I don’t like what he said in that song, ban it, moderate it, my view 
>>> is the right view so all others be damned.
>>> 
>>> wow
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Mary Otten >>> > wrote:
 
 For whatever it may be worth, I really think the best thing would be to 
 have new moderators on this list, rather than fragmenting the community. I 
 know that is not a new idea as several have mentioned the same idea. I 
 also don't agree with the wild West approach. I'm sorry. But when you send 
 email to a list of several hundred people, you are coming into their 
 homes. And you did not have a right to abuse that privilege. Nor should 
 several hundred people be expected to write filtersbecause of one or two 
 outliers who make itunpleasant  for everybody. If a list is said to be 
 moderated, people who signed up for that list have a right to expect that 
 the rules will be followed and that those who do not follow them 
 consistently will be taken off the list. If you like unmoderated lists, 
 start one, or, if you want to check one out, go check out the eyes 
 freelist. The last time I was on there, which was admittedly many months 
 ago, it was horrible. I'm not arguing for one strike and you're out or 
 heavy-handed moderation. But when it becomes clear overtime that a few 
 people simply cannot follow simple guidelines, then a moderator needs to 
 take action, or a new moderator needs to be found. So, I guess I'm joining 
 my voice with the chorus of those who say that in the best of all worlds, 
 this list would remain but would have an active moderator who did his or 
 her job.
 Mary
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:56 AM, Littlefield, Tyler  > wrote:
> 
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hello Scott,
> There's a vast difference in overly moderating and moderating of those
> who make the community unpleasant for others. For example, should
> someone receive an email cursing at them (which happens here pretty
> frequently), the problem gets solved with a moderation. Should it
> continue, said individual is removed from the community.
> 
> I'm not proposing that overly prolicing makes a diff

Re: two questions about the Mac

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Oh, Parallels is a disaster with Voiceover, from what I'm told.  I wonder if 
Virtualbox is any good.  Especially knowing that it's got a CLI backend.


Chris.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Devin Prater" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: two questions about the Mac


I've tried Parallels before, like 3 months ago, but no luck with VO.

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:42 AM, Scott Granados  
wrote:


I like this response.  Thank you!

Definitely well thought out.

So you raise very good points.  I’m just going to counter and say that it 
seems to me like they streamline the code and optimize performance to the 
latest hardware and software out there but that’s a marginal gain and I’d 
wonder if the user really experiences much improvement.


   Some of the updates to Fusion I’ve done really did seem to help with 
things like battery life and other tangible benefits but using your logic, 
why do we really need a hypervisor at all.  Why can’t some means of 
compartmentalizing operating systems and running them in parallel be 
handled right in the OS or in hardware.  Good point!


Since you mentioned parallels?  Is that accessible now?  I always went 
with fusion because I had experienced parallels and had bad luck with VO. 
Has this changed?


Do you have a hypervisor you like to use that’s better than fusion or do 
you just suck it up and pay the money for fusion like I do?


Thanks for the good points to think about.



On Aug 27, 2015, at 8:37 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  
wrote:


But the emulated hardware is sufficient to run Win10.  Why on earth is a 
PC emulator struggling to support a newer OS when that OS would run on 
contemporary hardware of the same age as the current version of VMWare?


Even if there are valid reasons, it’s been less than 12 months.  VMWare 
makes money from its server business and their desktop products are 
fairly marginal.  And it has competition from other vendors, notably 
Parallels on the Mac (which plays the same silly game), VirtualBox (less 
good but free) and the bare-metal hypervisors which everybody is just 
giving away now because the technology won’t fly unless it’s free.  It’s 
a good time to be a desktop Linux user so you can use KVM. :)


So yeah, grrr.  Bloody annoying.  Better get out my wallet.

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Re: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Realize that the way SEO works, and the way certain web sites parce their 
meta information could make it not always appear at the top of the search 
results list.  It's very unlikely, but I have however seen it where I'd do a 
key word search, then later do it again and get entirely two totally 
different sets of results.  Usually this is over much farther stretched of a 
time period though.  Worth considering though.


It's probably not the cause here, but again, like you said, Donna, you never 
know.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Donna Goodin" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:35 AM
Subject: Re: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?


That's funny.  That's exactly what I typed.  Ah, the mysteries of google. 
:)

Take care,
Donna

On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:27 AM, george b  wrote:

I typed in google

How to mute a apple watch and it was the first that came up

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin

Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 05:23
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

How did you find that? :)  I was googling this before I posted, but 
didn't see it.  thanks!

Donna

On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:06 AM, george b  wrote:

Donna,



How to mute your Apple Watch on the Apple Watch

1.Press the Digital Crown until you see the watch face.
2.Swipe up to reveal the Settings Glance. (if you get a different glance 
just swipe left until you get to Settings.)

3.Tap the Mute button.





H^TH

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin

Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 04:54
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

Hi all,

Does anyone know if there's a way to do this? I'm not talking about 
touching it with your palm, but actually putting it on mute, the way you 
can do with your phone, so the phone doesn't ring, messages don't ping, 
etc.

thanks,
Donna

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Re: snow leppard 10.6.3 to 10.6.8

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Actually, though I cannot confirm who his friend is for certain, if it's who 
I think it is, then their system definitely will run Yosemite.  I know that 
wasn't the question, but I'm just not getting why this person's so hesitant 
to upgrade.  They have identically the same system as one of the macbooks I 
own, and I'm running Yosemite 10.10.5 on it with not even the slightest bit 
of issue, and swear by it!
- Original Message - 
From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:30 AM
Subject: Re: snow leppard 10.6.3 to 10.6.8


Yes, you can update to 10.6.8 from 10.6.3 for free using Software Update. 
Once that’s done you will have the Mac App Store, with which you download 
and install Yosemite or, if your hardware doesn’t support that, Lion, 
Mountain Lion, or Mavericks (but most likely Lion).  You may have to put 
down more money for versions prior to Yosemite, however; this you do through 
Apple’s online store.


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Re: snow leppard 10.6.3 to 10.6.8

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

They can use software update to go from 10.6.3, to 10.6.8, and yes, it 
should be free.  The only concern I'd have would be if Apple has pulled the 
10.6.8 update from their servers, as it's so old.  It wouldn't surprise me 
at all if they've done so.


But, seriously though, .  Why don't they want to update to Yosemite?  If the 
friend is who I think it is, then their system definitely! will support it 
very easily.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Singing Sparrow" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:25 AM
Subject: snow leppard 10.6.3 to 10.6.8


I have been talking to a friend on line that is trying to update to the 
last version of snow leppard will they have to purchase the 10.6.8 update 
or can they still  update through software update?


They are trying to resolve some safari issues and other things they have 
noticed.
I have told them about Yosemity and they are willing to do something like 
this but everything to them at this point is very frustrating to them. and 
they are about  to go out of there  wits with trying to figure things out, 
I told them to be patient and go slowly at it for that is the way of the 
force.


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Re: I forgot a bluetooth command.

[Christopher Gilland]

Thank you immensely.  I will give these a try.

Have a wonderful day, sir.

Chris.

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:56 AM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
> 
> I believe vo home and end do this, but it might be pageUp instead. Try arrow 
> with option for the second problem.
> 
> 
> Jonathan Cohn 
> 
>> On Aug 25, 2015, at 1:09 PM, Chris Gilland  wrote:
>> 
>> I seem to be drawing a mental blank.
>> 
>> How do you go about bringing down the notification Center and iOS with a 
>> Bluetooth keyboard?
>> 
>> also, is there a way that one can bring up the control center.
>> 
>> actually, come to think of it, here are two more that I've forgotten? Is 
>> there a way to do the equivalent of a three finger flick up in a three 
>> finger flick down to scroll the screen?
>> 
>> thank you very much for any help. It is greatly appreciated!
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
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Re: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

My question is, if it's muted, then how would you unute it seeing that you 
have to tap an icon to do this.  Sorry if that's kind of a stupid question. 
I presume you could memorize how many times to flick to get to the mute 
button, but couldn't this be a little problematic, as you'd not necessarily 
know what icon you initially landed on, so your counts could slightly vary? 
Sorry.  I not only don't own a watch, but I've never even seen one, so 
perhaps my assumption here might not be  totally fair to make.  I'm just 
curious.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Donna Goodin" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?


How did you find that? :)  I was googling this before I posted, but didn't 
see it.  thanks!

Donna

On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:06 AM, george b  wrote:

Donna,



How to mute your Apple Watch on the Apple Watch

1.Press the Digital Crown until you see the watch face.
2.Swipe up to reveal the Settings Glance. (if you get a different glance 
just swipe left until you get to Settings.)

3.Tap the Mute button.





H^TH

-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin

Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 04:54
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

Hi all,

Does anyone know if there's a way to do this? I'm not talking about 
touching it with your palm, but actually putting it on mute, the way you 
can do with your phone, so the phone doesn't ring, messages don't ping, 
etc.

thanks,
Donna

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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Caitlyn,

Beautiful name By the way, thank you so much for your quick response.  That 
is kind of what I suspected regarding the download of version 8.  I wonder 
if anyone up here may be so kind as to have a Sendspace or a Dropbox link 
they could share of the DMG.  I'm not asking for a pirated copy or anything, 
LOL! Make that very clear.  I'm only wanting the DMG itself with the 
installer, so that I can run it as a demo, and evaluate if I want to 
purchase it.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Caitlyn Furness" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: two questions about the Mac


For Fusion, you probably have to go to their incredible inaccessable web 
site and get the new version.  In the notice about the fusion update, there 
should be a button to click on that says something like “learn more”, or 
“update now”. this will take you to their web site.


I am still using fusion 6.x so if they’ve changed things since then I can’t 
help more..

Cait

On Aug 26, 2015, at 9:47 PM, Juliette Swiler  
wrote:


Hi,
My first question is I got an update notice for Fusion and I only see a 
learn more button, but no option to install it. How do I go about this? 
Also, in iTunes, I am having a strange problem where my podcasts will not 
update properly. However, they update properly via the podcasts app on my 
iPhone.

Thanks.

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Neospeech?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Maybe a dumb  question, but neither Neospeech Kate nor Paul have been ported 
over to the mac, have they?

Chris.

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Re: a new macvisionaries list

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I didn't say Mailman natively could be done from the CLI.  You're correct, 
you do have to use other packages as well in combination to make this 
approach work, but it is! possible to do.  It's honestly probably more 
trouble than it's worth, but there you have it, in a nutshell.  I do 
acknowledge your concerns initially though.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: a new macvisionaries list


You must be talking about a different Mailman, as on my site I get:
No manual entry for mailman

Mailman 2.x, at least, stores its data in Python pickles, not SQL databases. 
Although I know about a third-party command-line tool (called mailmanadmin) 
which does most moderation from the shell or cron, it’s still not as 
beauteous as the Ecartis approach of copy-pasting moderation commands into 
an email message and sending them off; you still need to connect to the 
remote machine and run the tool.  Perhaps Mailman 3.x is different, but it’s 
still under development, so not for me.


Anyway, to keep this relevant, Mailman is how this list started.  Perhaps it 
would be a better place for it to end up.  OS X can handle Mailman’s 
interface quite nicely using Safari and VoiceOver.


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iTerm?

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Hi,

Anyone here have any experience of iTerm?  I’m wondering if it might be any 
more responsive than Terminal, or any more prone to ease of VoiceOver access, 
especially for automatically reading output and stopping navigation at window 
boundaries.  The rest of the features look interesting, but I’m reluctant to 
replace Terminal unless these issues are much improved on.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: My Own Thoughts on Today's Subjects

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

I don't think it's a matter of one writing rules.  I think it's a matter of 
the cummunity *maturely!* coming together as just that... a community... and 
working with the moderators to come up with fair rules.  This way nothing at 
all is dictated.  It gives the members a sense of knowing their opinions 
really do matter.


Personally, when I create a mailing list, I never ever ever make any rules 
at all until I have at least 5 or 10 people subscribed.  At this point, I 
usually send out an admin message asking for people's opinions on what they 
would like to see, vs. what they don't want to see with the list.  We then 
on list hold a discussion, *as adults,* and then once I've gotten everyone's 
opinion, I, don't settle on the rules, but instead, we work together to come 
up with a base plan.


If people then later join and don't like the rules, then I always invite 
them to privately approach me off list, and I'll gladly discuss things with 
them.  Heck!  I'll even go so far as to arrange a voice conversation with 
them, if that is what they'd like to do.  I'll then systematicly listen to 
their concerns, and if I feel they are valid, then I'll address things 
accordingly.  If I feel they are not valid however, then I am not rude about 
it.  I stick my guns, yes, but I will do my best to acknowledge the person's 
feelings and opinions, but then will also explain why I feel differently. 
If after this we cannot come to a compromise, then I do not ban or the like. 
I simply just agree to disagree.  Then, if the rule gets broken past that 
point, then I'll take action, but only then will I do so.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "r a gindin" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: My Own Thoughts on Today's Subjects


and who will write those rules?

ag

On 8/26/15 10:50 PM, David Tanner wrote:
Folks, let us be adults here.  We all have our own opinions about a lot of 
things.  And, just to say that a person doesn't have the right to say that 
they don't feel a need for a certain product is not life shattering.  And, 
if a person wants respect then they need to be sure that they are showing 
respect to others on the list.


If a different moderator is needed, or if there is again a need for a 
group of more than one moderator to make decisions on the rules for the 
list and how it is managed then let those who wish to work daily to make 
this list better let it be known that they wish to help make this a better 
list for all.


But, for better or worse there are times on any mailinglist that some 
folks want to act like children.  So, then the moderators need to have 
rules in place that clearly determine what actions will cause a person to 
be put on monitoring, and if the actions continue they will be removed 
from the list.  And, once the rules are made the moderators need to stick 
to the rules so that everyone knows what the rules are and what actions by 
them will cause them to be removed from the list.


  that


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Shawn Krasniuk

Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 6:56 PM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: My Own Thoughts on Today's Subjects

Hi all. I, like others, also say that making a new Mac Visionaries list 
won't solve anything. The reality of the matter is that drama follows us 
everywhere and if we make a whole new mailing list, we're basically 
running away from reality. Cara made an excellent point earlier and I'm 
proud that she was honest enough to come out in the open and explain 
herself. It's hard to lose someone you care dearly about, and I give her 
my sincere condolences.
Now, about the certain somebody that you all keep writing about, and I 
know who all of you are talking about. You each may have your own reasons 
for why you dislike him so much, but your contempt for him over shadows 
what he's done for this community, and I for one appreciate what he's 
done. I mean, I'm like him. When I post to this list about issues or 
opinions, I'm hoping that my intentions are good and that somebody 
appreciates them without having to ask for that appreciation. And when 
people attack me, just like someone did last week, (you know who you are), 
because I gave an honest opinion about the iPhone 6 Plus and why I don't 
need one right now, it's like a slap in the face. It's like someone coming 
up to you and saying, "We don't care what you think so shut the F**K up." 
I mean, has this list turned into so much of a drama pool where people 
like me can't voice questions or opinions without getting attacked? 
Because if so, that's fine. I'm on other mailing lists so I'll just share 
my contributions and opinions with those lists because they actually care 
what I have to say. And my other point is simple. Cara made a really good 
point. I think some of us have forgotten where the delete key is on the 
computer. So rather than pressi

Re: two questions about the Mac

[Scott Granados]

Chris, you need to also have a key even a 30 day demo key.

You can’t just install it and run it I don’t believe.  (correct me if I’m wrong)

You have to fill out a trial form with several bits of info and then a key is 
emailed to you to add.  So even with the DMG I don’t think you’ll get that far.

What do you think?

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:11 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Caitlyn,
> 
> Beautiful name By the way, thank you so much for your quick response.  That 
> is kind of what I suspected regarding the download of version 8.  I wonder if 
> anyone up here may be so kind as to have a Sendspace or a Dropbox link they 
> could share of the DMG.  I'm not asking for a pirated copy or anything, LOL! 
> Make that very clear.  I'm only wanting the DMG itself with the installer, so 
> that I can run it as a demo, and evaluate if I want to purchase it.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Caitlyn Furness" 
> 
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 7:07 AM
> Subject: Re: two questions about the Mac
> 
> 
> For Fusion, you probably have to go to their incredible inaccessable web site 
> and get the new version.  In the notice about the fusion update, there should 
> be a button to click on that says something like “learn more”, or “update 
> now”. this will take you to their web site.
> 
> I am still using fusion 6.x so if they’ve changed things since then I can’t 
> help more..
> Cait
> 
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 9:47 PM, Juliette Swiler  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> My first question is I got an update notice for Fusion and I only see a 
>> learn more button, but no option to install it. How do I go about this? 
>> Also, in iTunes, I am having a strange problem where my podcasts will not 
>> update properly. However, they update properly via the podcasts app on my 
>> iPhone.
>> Thanks.
>> 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
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Re: two questions about the Mac

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

OK. Regarding ITunes:

When you are looking at the list of all your podcasts, there should be a 
settings button just past all of the podcast titles.  If you go into 
settings, there should be a popup button to either choose a specific one of 
those podcasts, or a default option.  In here, you should be able to set 
that popup to default, then configure your update settings accordingly.  I 
wonder if perhaps something in there might not be configured to your liking.


If you need a hand with this, let me know.

I'd be happy to provide any help I can, and I'll be free via either phone or 
Skype pretty much all day today, (Thursday,) so if nothing else, tell me how 
to get ahold of you, and a good time, and I'll help you out more with this.


Podcasts can be a little tricky with ITunes to get configured correctly, but 
once you do so, they actually work really really really well.


Chris.
- Original Message - 
From: "Juliette Swiler" 

To: 
Cc: "Juliette Swiler" 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 9:47 PM
Subject: two questions about the Mac


Hi,
My first question is I got an update notice for Fusion and I only see a 
learn more button, but no option to install it. How do I go about this? 
Also, in iTunes, I am having a strange problem where my podcasts will not 
update properly. However, they update properly via the podcasts app on my 
iPhone.

Thanks.

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Re: audible books on the Mac

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Andrew,

What the other list member is trying to say, if I'm correctly understanding 
them is, yes, deauthorize is there, just not authorize.  If you want to 
deauthorize, then yes.  You go to the Store menu.  However if you are trying 
to authorize in the first place, you need to first import a book, then you 
should be prompted to enter your Audible login credentials.  Does that make 
a little more sense?


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew Lamanche" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: audible books on the Mac


Sorry, I run the latest iTunes and I still have "deauthorise" audible 
account" under the store menu item so I assumed there would have been its 
opposite, .e. "authorise audible account'.  Didn't mean to mislead.


Andrew

On 26 Aug 2015, at 16:59, Faisal ali  wrote:

Hi there Andrew,
This is no longer the way its done since iTunes 12.2. According to the 
help page I read, the only way to authorize is by downloading a book. If 
you look in the store menu in iTunes, they only thing pertinent to audible 
is reauthorize audible account, not authorize.



On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Andrew Lamanche  wrote:

Hello,

Open Itunes and go to the "store" menu item and arrow down to the item 
authorise this computer for audible account or something very similar. 
This will allow you to authorise your computer to play audible books via 
ituens.  remember to deauthorise your computer with Audible should you 
have to change your computers or wipe it clean because Audible only 
allows a number of devices to play their content.


Andrew

On 26 Aug 2015, at 14:58, Faisal ali  wrote:

Hi all,
Recently, I’ve subscribed to audible and I wish to be able to read such 
books on my mac. As I understand, this can be done in iTunes but one 
needs to authorize one’s computer to be able to make this happen. 
Firstly, is there anyone on this list who read audible books on their 
macs? Secondly, how accessible was the authorization process? Based on 
what I read, one needs to download a book and once the book finishes 
downloading, the computer will prompt for a audible username and 
password to authorize the machine.

Thanks much.

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Re: audible books on the Mac

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

This is provided, Marcia, that you have Safari set to automatically open 
safe downloaded files after they finnish downloading.  Some people, like 
myself, might not have Safari configured this way.  So yes.  What you're 
saying is correct 99.999% of the time, but I would just hate for someone to 
have Safari set differently, it not open automatically, not take them into 
ITuens and authorize, and then they wonder why not.


No biggy.  It's all perfectly fine.  No hard feelings whatsoever.  I just 
thought I'd make this as a valid point.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Marcia Yale" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 2:06 PM
Subject: RE: audible books on the Mac


Actually, all you have to do is initiate the download from the Audible site 
and iTunes will automatically recognize it and prompt you for your user ID 
and password if it's the first book to be downloaded.


-Original Message-
From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Faisal ali

Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 9:58 AM
To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
Subject: audible books on the Mac

Hi all,
Recently, I’ve subscribed to audible and I wish to be able to read such 
books on my mac. As I understand, this can be done in iTunes but one needs 
to authorize one’s computer to be able to make this happen. Firstly, is 
there anyone on this list who read audible books on their macs? Secondly, 
how accessible was the authorization process? Based on what I read, one 
needs to download a book and once the book finishes downloading, the 
computer will prompt for a audible username and password to authorize the 
machine.

Thanks much.

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Re: suggestion [was: Re: the anti cleaning article]

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Wo!  You can even do it based off the headers?  OK, I need to like, 
seriously! go look more at the filterring settings then.  That is something 
I admittedly didn't know.  If that's the case, then that is really really 
cool!


I just wish that I O S had filterring capability without you having to do it 
on the server side.  Oh well though.  You can't have everything.  Smile.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Eric Oyen" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 4:32 PM
Subject: Re: suggestion [was: Re: the anti cleaning article]


yep. I use apple mail here and it has a very large selection of filters I 
can use. I can even filter based on any of the hidden header information 
(those pesky X-lines). It has allowed me to dump more spam than even gmail 
could (and do it properly).


-eric

On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

This is what I was suggesting but several folks got their panties in a 
bunch and feel that filtering is unacceptable.  They’d rather be spoon fed 
I suppose than work their own silverware.


Good point though


On Aug 26, 2015, at 2:05 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:

may I offer a suggestion? there are mail filters that can be applied from 
the end user. Most mail clients can actually do this based on a number of 
criteria. So, if someone uses a foul tongue and makes threats, just 
filter their mail into the trash based on that offenders email address, 
or based on a list of words that are offensive. THe offender will realize 
with alacrity that his messages are being ignore and will go elsewhere.


Just a thought.

-eric

On Aug 26, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:

Of course, as always, it helps to remember that if nobody replied to the 
abuser, we wouldn’t have these issues.  But it also helps to know that a 
moderator can do this quickly in response to a general consensus or 
clear harm being done, and that, for better or worse, people will 
respond angrily to threads and contribute to their derailment.  I see no 
reason why anybody’s freedoms should be impacted by such moderation, 
only the benefits that come from a more efficient filter on the list 
mail than would be achievable otherwise by individual members, 
especially when the only tools available to them are on their devices.


So, as I said previously, I regard this as a matter of administration, 
not ethics.  Having a moderator around is simply important for damage 
control—nothing more.


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Re: audible books on the Mac

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Hi Andrew.

Audible will actually reset your activations for you, if you call them.

1-888-283-5051, if you're in the states or Canada.

I'm not sure how that works elseware, I'm sorry.  I'll betcha, 
supp...@audible.com would work.  If not, sign in, and click on the help 
link.


Grant it, I'd not make a habbit of having them reset your machines, but if 
you really truely legitimately lose an activation, they've always been very 
good about helping me out.


Chris.
- Original Message - 
From: "Andrew Lamanche" 

To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: audible books on the Mac


Hello,

Open Itunes and go to the "store" menu item and arrow down to the item 
authorise this computer for audible account or something very similar.  This 
will allow you to authorise your computer to play audible books via ituens. 
remember to deauthorise your computer with Audible should you have to change 
your computers or wipe it clean because Audible only allows a number of 
devices to play their content.


Andrew

On 26 Aug 2015, at 14:58, Faisal ali  wrote:

Hi all,
Recently, I’ve subscribed to audible and I wish to be able to read such 
books on my mac. As I understand, this can be done in iTunes but one needs 
to authorize one’s computer to be able to make this happen. Firstly, is 
there anyone on this list who read audible books on their macs? Secondly, 
how accessible was the authorization process? Based on what I read, one 
needs to download a book and once the book finishes downloading, the 
computer will prompt for a audible username and password to authorize the 
machine.

Thanks much.

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Re: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

[Jamie Pauls]

Donna,

Have you checked out David Woodbridges series of Apple Watch podcasts on 
AppleVis? Just go to the link on the front page of the site called "Getting 
Started with Your First Apple Watch. David covers every conceivable aspect of 
using the Apple Watch with VoiceOver Let me know if you need a direct link and 
I will provide it. Thanks. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
> 
> How did you find that? :)  I was googling this before I posted, but didn't 
> see it.  thanks!
> Donna
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:06 AM, george b  wrote:
>> 
>> Donna,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> How to mute your Apple Watch on the Apple Watch
>> 
>> 1.Press the Digital Crown until you see the watch face.
>> 2.Swipe up to reveal the Settings Glance. (if you get a different glance 
>> just swipe left until you get to Settings.)
>> 3.Tap the Mute button.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> H^TH
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 04:54
>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>> Subject: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> Does anyone know if there's a way to do this? I'm not talking about touching 
>> it with your palm, but actually putting it on mute, the way you can do with 
>> your phone, so the phone doesn't ring, messages don't ping, etc.
>> thanks,
>> Donna
>> 
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Re: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?

[Donna Goodin]

Thanks, Jamie!
Cheers,
Donna

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 8:33 AM, Jamie Pauls  wrote:
> 
> Donna,
> 
> Have you checked out David Woodbridges series of Apple Watch podcasts on 
> AppleVis? Just go to the link on the front page of the site called "Getting 
> Started with Your First Apple Watch. David covers every conceivable aspect of 
> using the Apple Watch with VoiceOver Let me know if you need a direct link 
> and I will provide it. Thanks. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:22 AM, Donna Goodin  wrote:
>> 
>> How did you find that? :)  I was googling this before I posted, but didn't 
>> see it.  thanks!
>> Donna
>>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:06 AM, george b  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Donna,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> How to mute your Apple Watch on the Apple Watch
>>> 
>>> 1.Press the Digital Crown until you see the watch face.
>>> 2.Swipe up to reveal the Settings Glance. (if you get a different glance 
>>> just swipe left until you get to Settings.)
>>> 3.Tap the Mute button.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> H^TH
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com 
>>> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 04:54
>>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com
>>> Subject: anyone know if there's a gesture for muting the Apple Watch?
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> Does anyone know if there's a way to do this? I'm not talking about 
>>> touching it with your palm, but actually putting it on mute, the way you 
>>> can do with your phone, so the phone doesn't ring, messages don't ping, etc.
>>> thanks,
>>> Donna
>>> 
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Re: Just my thoughts.

[Scott Granados]

Kawal, if someone stops speaking to you over a mailing list, they weren’t a 
friend.:)

These resources are good for information but things like email and email lists 
just aren’t good for expression of anything even remotely emotional.  It’s to 
easy to mistake what the intent of someone posting something is.  Bottom line 
don’t take anything online to seriously.



> On Aug 26, 2015, at 5:16 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> So let's say who ever offends subscribes to the new list and says something 
> out of sorts then there is a spat on that new list before a mod steps in.  
> You see in my thinking, the damage is already been done as harsh words are 
> said and therefore in my thinking the same problem occurs.  I know a mod can 
> band them straight away but we being human beings don't always forget the bad 
> things as it's in human nature to remember harsh words.
> 
> Personally I have had people writing to me saying that they no longer wish to 
> communicate with me who belong to this list.  Whilst I don't like it because 
> I prefer to try and talk issues through, I have had to learn to accept that 
> people will not speak to me and have had to continue as if nothing has 
> happened.  That for me has been very hard to deal with but I have had to do 
> so.  So for me, it doesn't matter what a person may say as long as we all 
> respect each other.  One of the reasons why I don't contribute so much to 
> this list because people can drop a friend ship after knowing you for more 
> than four years.  A painful lesson.
> 
> Kawal.
> 
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Re: destructive people and their right to freedom of speech

[Scott Granados]

Your rights end where my nose begins.

I like that!

I’ve never heard that one before.  That’s a great expression.

> On Aug 26, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
> 
> Again I must agree.
> there is a Maxim in legal studies, your rights end where my nose begins. One  
> meaning of this is that I and only i in the end decide if something is 
> offensive...largely because the other party is not going to agree regardless.
> so, the greater question is why are you giving one person so much power over 
> you that you have to run away to another list?
> To be honest, I  am on this list, and I am totally lost as to who has started 
> another  challenge...because I just do not  read, or take personally messages 
> that are not true for me.
> Karen
> 
> 
> On Thu, 27 Aug 2015, Yuma Decaux wrote:
> 
>> See what happens and keep this status quo going on while a majority is 
>> agreeing on several points? So we’re just discussing uselessly is this 
>> correct?
>> 
>>> On 27/08/2015, at 2:41 AM, Jim Gatteys  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I guess we'll just have to see what happens.
>>> I personally think it is counter productive to let one person make the 
>>> entire list not a good place for its members.  But with all this discussion 
>>> we are giving him more attention which is probably what he wants in the 
>>> first place.
>>> Jim
>>> 
>>> 
 On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 That’s an easy one, because no one person can and should speak for anyone 
 else.
 
 We’ve already discussed on this thread what happens when a moderator goes 
 all power hungry.  I remember when it happened on an iteration of this 
 list probably 4 years back now and most people left the group because the 
 moderator in this case was on crack.
 
 On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:57 AM, Jim Gatteys  wrote:
> 
> Why should everybody have to create a rule to filter out one 
> objectionable person when a moderator could handle that quickly and 
> efficiently.
> 
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 10:04 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Just add the objectionable person to a rule and move it automatically to 
>> the trash.
>> 
>> Simple, problem solved and no moderation.
>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:01 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
>>> 
>>> ET is right, I am afraid to say this.
>>> 
>>> I cannot count the number of times this person has fired out, insulted, 
>>> then asked pardon, justifying some personal issues which do not belong 
>>> to any mailing list, then repeat the process almost within the hour. If 
>>> he is so defensive and threatening towards so many people, this is 
>>> because these responders also feel offended by his words. There is a 
>>> democratic process going on, a natural finger pointing of someone who 
>>> just abuses the fact that there are no moderators in this list. Some of 
>>> us try to resolve this one way or the other but nothing will be done if 
>>> no one takes action, gas bagging and cackering instead in the drainpipe 
>>> of opinionated expression. The latter is useless. Action can solve 
>>> everything.
>>> 
>>> Take care
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On 27/08/2015, at 12:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
 
 There are as many opinions here as there are members of this group. 
 This issue is generating a lot of traffic that is not helpful to the 
 grpup. We have one person who cannot control himself. Banning him will 
 break the fever and let the group move on.
 
 From E.T.'s Keyboard...
 ancient.ali...@icloud.com
 Many believe that we have been visited
 in the past. What if it were true?
 
 On 8/26/2015 7:31 AM, Yuma Decaux wrote:
> A very simple solution is for everyone to be aware that the list is 
> moderated, and throw in a public warning to whoever is continuously 
> abusing others verbally, not necessarily ban the person. The point is 
> to make the offensive person reflect on themselves. Banning them 
> would result in upsets and possible worse attitudes in other lists.
> 
> 
>> On 26/08/2015, at 10:39 PM, Scott Granados 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Yes until you’ve eventually removed everyone from deviating from 
>> your acceptable use over time.
>> 
>> Banning someone from any mailing list is just weak sauce.  The only 
>> exception to that at least for me is spammers.  There have been 
>> serious lack of moderation and spam problems on other lists like the 
>> eyesore list from Google.  Automated programs dumping recruiting 
>> adds and so forth is just disruptive.  Pending that though I 
>> couldn’t see banning someone.
>> 
>>> On Aug 25, 2015, at 3:06 PM, E.T.  wrote:
>>> 
>>> It only

Re: two questions about the Mac

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Hi Scott, good points.

I pay for Fusion because I don’t think we have much of a choice, though I 
certainly like the VMWare codebase.  On Windows Workstation is a much better 
product; you can use Workstation to build VMs that Fusion will run.

I can appreciate that everything changes and usually gets better; hardware 
virtualisation is a great example of that.  Now your guest OS doesn’t need 
special sauce just to run, though it may benefit from guest helpers to make it 
run faster without overhead on virtual hardware.  KVM on Linux is where it’s 
at: it is a layer of virtualisation support accessed by host applications that 
provide the interface to the user.  Really awesome, and the only condition is 
that your processor knows how to virtualise privileged modes.  I’ve no doubt 
something like that will be part of every OS soon; Windows has HyperV and OS X 
now has this virtualisation subsystem.  I guess what I’m saying in regard to 
VMWare specifically is that, unless the actual virtualisation part of the 
virtualisation software has changed, it seems strange that there should even be 
a need for an upgrade.  Just release the new guest tools, provide a patch to 
provide the new specification for the hardware that your new OS wants, run the 
Win10 upgrade assistant thingy inside Windows, and you’re set.  VMWare on the 
other hand is giving you the complete package and charging for it on what 
appears to be the thin promise of “Supports new shiny thing” while overlooking 
the actual changes required in a well-designed stack.  It’s a bit like digital 
rentals; you make a complete copy, so it’s not a rental at all, but you don’t 
mind as long as the price is lower and the rental is advertised as a rental.  
If your connection speed is fast enough you might even be led to believe that 
the Internet isn’t even involved, thus completing the illusion.

So yeah, just my little rant.  Honestly I think it’s just VMWare being VMWare 
and sadly, it seems, catching on that Mac users are happy to pedal the 
treadmill.  Can’t complain when I paid for a Mac, after all.

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Re: snow leppard 10.6.3 to 10.6.8

[Singing Sparrow]

When reading the upgrade information for yosemity, the page states you 
need 10.6.8 before you can update to yosemity.

So in that case then what would they do?

On 8/27/2015 7:37 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
They can use software update to go from 10.6.3, to 10.6.8, and yes, it 
should be free.  The only concern I'd have would be if Apple has 
pulled the 10.6.8 update from their servers, as it's so old.  It 
wouldn't surprise me at all if they've done so.


But, seriously though, .  Why don't they want to update to Yosemite?  
If the friend is who I think it is, then their system definitely! will 
support it very easily.


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Singing Sparrow" 


To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:25 AM
Subject: snow leppard 10.6.3 to 10.6.8


I have been talking to a friend on line that is trying to update to 
the last version of snow leppard will they have to purchase the 
10.6.8 update or can they still update through software update?


They are trying to resolve some safari issues and other things they 
have noticed.
I have told them about Yosemity and they are willing to do something 
like this but everything to them at this point is very frustrating to 
them. and they are about  to go out of there wits with trying to 
figure things out, I told them to be patient and go slowly at it for 
that is the way of the force.


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Re: a new macvisionaries list

[Littlefield, Tyler]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I've set up mailman multiple times... It never used mysql.
On 8/27/2015 3:48 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
> I didn't say Mailman natively could be done from the CLI.  You're 
> correct, you do have to use other packages as well in combination
> to make this approach work, but it is! possible to do.  It's
> honestly probably more trouble than it's worth, but there you have
> it, in a nutshell.  I do acknowledge your concerns initially
> though.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Sabahattin Gucukoglu" 
>  To:  Sent:
> Thursday, August 27, 2015 12:25 AM Subject: Re: a new
> macvisionaries list
> 
> 
> You must be talking about a different Mailman, as on my site I
> get: No manual entry for mailman
> 
> Mailman 2.x, at least, stores its data in Python pickles, not SQL 
> databases. Although I know about a third-party command-line tool
> (called mailmanadmin) which does most moderation from the shell or
> cron, it’s still not as beauteous as the Ecartis approach of
> copy-pasting moderation commands into an email message and sending
> them off; you still need to connect to the remote machine and run
> the tool.  Perhaps Mailman 3.x is different, but it’s still under
> development, so not for me.
> 
> Anyway, to keep this relevant, Mailman is how this list started. 
> Perhaps it would be a better place for it to end up.  OS X can
> handle Mailman’s interface quite nicely using Safari and
> VoiceOver.
> 


- -- 
Take care,
Ty
twitter: @sorressean
web:http://tysdomain.com
pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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Re: a new macvisionaries list

[Littlefield, Tyler]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello:
I'm a bit baffled by this response, because you're trying to make
Chris sound like this reasonable guy who sometimes just might slip
with the f-bomb. This is not the case. Less than a month ago I said
something that bothered him. I woke up to 20+ emails at least cursing
and ranting. There is no call for that.

I'm also going to say I find it mildly amusing that this uproar is
because of a specific person but also because how the list has
devolved and he just kind of ignores that and moves on to trying to
sound sensable again. I'm curious how much of his junk is getting
blocked/how soon it will take him to devolve.

But to make it clear, this isn't specifically for one person. I feel
like I've said this 500 times. It's because the list was allowed to
devolve and a majority of the community does not like that. I'm also
calling an end to this endless debate on my behalf, no matter what
I'll say you'll just scream "You idiot just filter," and that's fine.
Chocolate and vanilla, remember?

On 8/27/2015 8:59 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> First off, nothing Chris says or could say offends me or for that
> matter nothing anyone says on any of these mailing lists offends me
> or would chase me away. Secondly, I’ve actually taken the time to
> talk to Chris off line and also seen a whole different side to his
> responses on another list where there was a lot of attacking going
> on so I have radically changed my opinion of him from when I first
> ran in to him some time ago.  Does he push the boundaries and get
> out of line sometimes, sure but so do I and a lot of people. All
> moderation means to me is someone either can’t police themselves, 
> they need to have their hand held and content managed for them and
> or someone has a power trip they need to feed and wants their own
> personal kingdom to rule over and dictate to everyone else what
> they will say or how they will act etc.  No thank you. I’d rather
> have a little noise and exercise my delete finger than have someone
> else dictate content standards to me.
> 
> 
> So my answer to you is no.
> 
> 
> Anything Chris
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:59 PM, Yuma Decaux > > wrote:
>> 
>> Scott,
>> 
>> What are you really ttryint to get to? Take the same home
>> analogy, or let’s say the social club analogy. A majority is
>> agreeing that this guy is detrimental. It’s been months like this
>> and in recent dates taking a culminating effect of driving the
>> discussion towards what to do with him, on and off list. Your
>> words are also getting more radical, mentioning churches etc.
>> Don’t you think its time to consider that maybe something does
>> need to be done?
>> 
>> 
>>> On 27/08/2015, at 2:40 AM, Scott Granados
>>> mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I think its funny how people like to push the responsibility on
>>> to someone else instead of deal with it themselves.
>>> 
>>> If you don’t want to invite someone in to your home then
>>> don’t. Nobody forces you to read anything.
>>> 
>>> These are the same busy bodies who want content pulled on TV
>>> because someone said something they don’t like or it offends
>>> some arbitrary religious value or another. Oh I don’t like what
>>> he said in that song, ban it, moderate it, my view is the right
>>> view so all others be damned.
>>> 
>>> wow
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
 On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Mary Otten >>> > wrote:
 
 For whatever it may be worth, I really think the best thing
 would be to have new moderators on this list, rather than
 fragmenting the community. I know that is not a new idea as
 several have mentioned the same idea. I also don't agree with
 the wild West approach. I'm sorry. But when you send email to
 a list of several hundred people, you are coming into their
 homes. And you did not have a right to abuse that privilege.
 Nor should several hundred people be expected to write
 filtersbecause of one or two outliers who make itunpleasant 
 for everybody. If a list is said to be moderated, people who
 signed up for that list have a right to expect that the rules
 will be followed and that those who do not follow them
 consistently will be taken off the list. If you like
 unmoderated lists, start one, or, if you want to check one
 out, go check out the eyes freelist. The last time I was on
 there, which was admittedly many months ago, it was horrible.
 I'm not arguing for one strike and you're out or heavy-handed
 moderation. But when it becomes clear overtime that a few
 people simply cannot follow simple guidelines, then a
 moderator needs to take action, or a new moderator needs to
 be found. So, I guess I'm joining my voice with the chorus of
 those who say that in the best of all worlds, this list would
 remain but would have an active moderator who did his or her
 job. Mary

Re: two questions about the Mac

[Scott Granados]

Ok, you’ve convinced me.:)

Excellent response.

So I’m going to probably side with you then and say why do they not just update 
the tools, to make more money.:)  Bottom line it’s about that $99 every time 
you update isn’t it?  Thinking it through you’re really dead on the mark.  It 
would be one thing if you got a real bump in performance or battery life or 
something useful but you’re right.  It’s just to support the latest OS and 
install an updated vmtools.exe package.

As for KVM.  We’re on the same page.  Unfortunately we use Xen where I am now 
but I am also a big fan of KVM.  There’s a company called digital ocean that 
uses KVM to host hundreds of thousands of virtual machines and it scales very 
well to these levels.

Great points.

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 9:46 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi Scott, good points.
> 
> I pay for Fusion because I don’t think we have much of a choice, though I 
> certainly like the VMWare codebase.  On Windows Workstation is a much better 
> product; you can use Workstation to build VMs that Fusion will run.
> 
> I can appreciate that everything changes and usually gets better; hardware 
> virtualisation is a great example of that.  Now your guest OS doesn’t need 
> special sauce just to run, though it may benefit from guest helpers to make 
> it run faster without overhead on virtual hardware.  KVM on Linux is where 
> it’s at: it is a layer of virtualisation support accessed by host 
> applications that provide the interface to the user.  Really awesome, and the 
> only condition is that your processor knows how to virtualise privileged 
> modes.  I’ve no doubt something like that will be part of every OS soon; 
> Windows has HyperV and OS X now has this virtualisation subsystem.  I guess 
> what I’m saying in regard to VMWare specifically is that, unless the actual 
> virtualisation part of the virtualisation software has changed, it seems 
> strange that there should even be a need for an upgrade.  Just release the 
> new guest tools, provide a patch to provide the new specification for the 
> hardware that your new OS wants, run the Win10 upgrade assistant thingy 
> inside Windows, and you’re set.  VMWare on the other hand is giving you the 
> complete package and charging for it on what appears to be the thin promise 
> of “Supports new shiny thing” while overlooking the actual changes required 
> in a well-designed stack.  It’s a bit like digital rentals; you make a 
> complete copy, so it’s not a rental at all, but you don’t mind as long as the 
> price is lower and the rental is advertised as a rental.  If your connection 
> speed is fast enough you might even be led to believe that the Internet isn’t 
> even involved, thus completing the illusion.
> 
> So yeah, just my little rant.  Honestly I think it’s just VMWare being VMWare 
> and sadly, it seems, catching on that Mac users are happy to pedal the 
> treadmill.  Can’t complain when I paid for a Mac, after all.
> 
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Re: a new macvisionaries list

[Shaf]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

It's pretty ridiculous that this thread is more than 100 messages long.



On 8/27/2015 2:55 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:
> Hello: I'm a bit baffled by this response, because you're trying to
> make Chris sound like this reasonable guy who sometimes just might
> slip with the f-bomb. This is not the case. Less than a month ago I
> said something that bothered him. I woke up to 20+ emails at least
> cursing and ranting. There is no call for that.
> 
> I'm also going to say I find it mildly amusing that this uproar is 
> because of a specific person but also because how the list has 
> devolved and he just kind of ignores that and moves on to trying
> to sound sensable again. I'm curious how much of his junk is
> getting blocked/how soon it will take him to devolve.
> 
> But to make it clear, this isn't specifically for one person. I
> feel like I've said this 500 times. It's because the list was
> allowed to devolve and a majority of the community does not like
> that. I'm also calling an end to this endless debate on my behalf,
> no matter what I'll say you'll just scream "You idiot just filter,"
> and that's fine. Chocolate and vanilla, remember?
> 
> On 8/27/2015 8:59 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> First off, nothing Chris says or could say offends me or for
>> that matter nothing anyone says on any of these mailing lists
>> offends me or would chase me away. Secondly, I’ve actually taken
>> the time to talk to Chris off line and also seen a whole
>> different side to his responses on another list where there was a
>> lot of attacking going on so I have radically changed my opinion
>> of him from when I first ran in to him some time ago.  Does he
>> push the boundaries and get out of line sometimes, sure but so do
>> I and a lot of people. All moderation means to me is someone
>> either can’t police themselves, they need to have their hand held
>> and content managed for them and or someone has a power trip they
>> need to feed and wants their own personal kingdom to rule over
>> and dictate to everyone else what they will say or how they will
>> act etc.  No thank you. I’d rather have a little noise and
>> exercise my delete finger than have someone else dictate content
>> standards to me.
> 
> 
>> So my answer to you is no.
> 
> 
>> Anything Chris
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:59 PM, Yuma Decaux >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Scott,
>>> 
>>> What are you really ttryint to get to? Take the same home 
>>> analogy, or let’s say the social club analogy. A majority is 
>>> agreeing that this guy is detrimental. It’s been months like
>>> this and in recent dates taking a culminating effect of driving
>>> the discussion towards what to do with him, on and off list.
>>> Your words are also getting more radical, mentioning churches
>>> etc. Don’t you think its time to consider that maybe something
>>> does need to be done?
>>> 
>>> 
 On 27/08/2015, at 2:40 AM, Scott Granados 
 mailto:scott.grana...@gmail.com>> 
 wrote:
 
 I think its funny how people like to push the responsibility
 on to someone else instead of deal with it themselves.
 
 If you don’t want to invite someone in to your home then 
 don’t. Nobody forces you to read anything.
 
 These are the same busy bodies who want content pulled on TV 
 because someone said something they don’t like or it offends 
 some arbitrary religious value or another. Oh I don’t like
 what he said in that song, ban it, moderate it, my view is
 the right view so all others be damned.
 
 wow
 
 
 
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Mary Otten
> mailto:motte...@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
> For whatever it may be worth, I really think the best
> thing would be to have new moderators on this list, rather
> than fragmenting the community. I know that is not a new
> idea as several have mentioned the same idea. I also don't
> agree with the wild West approach. I'm sorry. But when you
> send email to a list of several hundred people, you are
> coming into their homes. And you did not have a right to
> abuse that privilege. Nor should several hundred people be
> expected to write filtersbecause of one or two outliers who
> make itunpleasant for everybody. If a list is said to be
> moderated, people who signed up for that list have a right
> to expect that the rules will be followed and that those
> who do not follow them consistently will be taken off the
> list. If you like unmoderated lists, start one, or, if you
> want to check one out, go check out the eyes freelist. The
> last time I was on there, which was admittedly many months
> ago, it was horrible. I'm not arguing for one strike and
> you're out or heavy-handed moderation. But when it becomes
> clear overtime that a few people simply cannot follow
> simple guidelines, then a moderator needs to take a

Re: Neospeech?

[Ray Foret Jr]

Nope.  I checked back in the day when I first got this here 2009 Mac book pro.  
The truth of the matter is this.  Neo speech no longer makes a consumer product 
of any sourt:  not even for the poor windows devotees out there.


Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray

Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!

Sent from my Mac,
the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Maybe a dumb  question, but neither Neospeech Kate nor Paul have been ported 
> over to the mac, have they?
>  
> Chris.
> 
> -- 
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Re: snow leppard 10.6.3 to 10.6.8

[Alex Hall]

Try the update to 10.6.8 first. According to Apple's site, it's still live; if 
the App Store can't find it, Apple provides this direct link (which I haven't 
tested):
https://support.apple.com/downloads/DL1400/en_US/MacOSXUpd10.6.8.dmg
Here's the support article I found on the topic, which seems to be quite 
standard and makes no mention of discontinuation:
https://support.apple.com/kb/DL1400?locale=en_US
> On Aug 27, 2015, at 9:49 AM, Singing Sparrow  wrote:
> 
> When reading the upgrade information for yosemity, the page states you need 
> 10.6.8 before you can update to yosemity.
> So in that case then what would they do?
> 
> On 8/27/2015 7:37 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:
>> They can use software update to go from 10.6.3, to 10.6.8, and yes, it 
>> should be free.  The only concern I'd have would be if Apple has pulled the 
>> 10.6.8 update from their servers, as it's so old.  It wouldn't surprise me 
>> at all if they've done so.
>> 
>> But, seriously though, .  Why don't they want to update to Yosemite?  If the 
>> friend is who I think it is, then their system definitely! will support it 
>> very easily.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Singing Sparrow" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 8:25 AM
>> Subject: snow leppard 10.6.3 to 10.6.8
>> 
>> 
>>> I have been talking to a friend on line that is trying to update to the 
>>> last version of snow leppard will they have to purchase the 10.6.8 update 
>>> or can they still update through software update?
>>> 
>>> They are trying to resolve some safari issues and other things they have 
>>> noticed.
>>> I have told them about Yosemity and they are willing to do something like 
>>> this but everything to them at this point is very frustrating to them. and 
>>> they are about  to go out of there wits with trying to figure things out, I 
>>> told them to be patient and go slowly at it for that is the way of the 
>>> force.
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>> 
> 
> 
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list name/for Jonathan was Re: a new macvisionaries list

[Littlefield, Tyler]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Jonathan,
I promised a last message on the last one and forgot I wanted to reply
to this.

I want to be totally honest here, I didn't really think about this
slapping anyone in the face when it happened. When I started the list,
my thought process was like this. "Many unhappy community members,
Macvisionaries abandoned for months, lets pick it up and not let it
die." I considered macvisionaries 2.0, but I just went with what we
all knew. I really was worried about stepping on a lot of toes.

As this is a community, I'm going to ask the good folks over on the
list what they'd like/prefer and we'll go from there. If they all want
a new address with a new name, hopefully someone is more creative than
I and that's what will happen.

Thanks for bringing up this concern, I really appreciate it. As I've
said a few times, I don't want to offend anyone. I've seen communities
such as this die off with less issues and I don't want to see this one go.

Thanks,
On 8/26/2015 1:52 PM, Jonathan Mosen wrote:
> Hi Tyler and all. As someone who has participated in these sorts
> of forums for around 30 years, dating back to the FidoNet days, I
> generally have a policy of not fuelling the flames by making
> comments on the drama. I've also run many lists in my time, and
> like you, I don't agree that a totally hands-off approach works,
> especially because even if you filter the problem child, it can be
> difficult to filter the responses to the problem child. Then you
> get yourself into a situation where you spend so much time tweaking
> your filters, you may as well just unsubscribe, which I've been
> considering doing. When the person who is the source of at least
> 80% of the current problems resubscribed to this list, I thought
> the cycle would repeat itself, as I've seen it do on several
> occasions on this list. It goes like this, things start off OK,
> then the posts get increasingly inappropriate, then people object
> to his behaviour, then, finally, he throws a tantrum and
> unsubscribes, and we all get on with our lives. For whatever
> reason, the latter part of this sequence hasn't happened as quickly
> as it usually does. This list needs a moderator. It does not have
> one right now, it only has an owner. So congratulations to you for
> starting another list. It's a free world and anyone can start any
> list on any topic they choose, and people can make a decision to
> subscribe or not based on whether they think it will add value and
> is worthy of their time. I would seriously  consider subscribing,
> but will not, for one important reason. I think using the name
> MacVisionaries is dishonest, inappropriate, and taking advantage of
> years of effort on the part of others. I am not in any way
> suggesting that you are a dishonest person. I am merely referring
> to this particular action. MacVisionaries is a strong brand. It's a
> rapidly deteriorating one, but it has helped many people. Just
> because you want to start a new list, doesn't mean this one is
> going away any time soon. When people use a search engine to find 
> MacVisionaries, and get two lists, how are they supposed to
> differentiate? If your list is going to be well-moderated, and
> there will be people actively ensuring it adds value to those
> contributing, why would you want to be associated with a brand
> that, presently, is in trouble? I would strongly urge you, as a
> sign of respect for all this current list has given to the
> community, and more to the point, the individuals who created this
> list, to do the right thing and think of a name of your own. All
> the best with it, whatever you decide to do.
> 
> 
> Jonathan Mosen Mosen Consulting Blindness technology eBooks,
> tutorials and training http://Mosen.org 
> 
>> On 27/08/2015, at 5:15 AM, Littlefield, Tyler
>> mailto:ty...@tysdomain.com>> wrote:
>> 
>> Hello: I actually tried for the best of both worlds here. I’ve
>> reached out to Cara numerous times, even mentioned her on twitter
>> and gotten no response. This was the last solution for me, but
>> one which I really do think will work. So I do want it known that
>> I have exhausted all possibilities short of banging on her door.
>> 
>> thanks,
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 12:29 PM, Mary Otten >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> For whatever it may be worth, I really think the best thing
>>> would be to have new moderators on this list, rather than
>>> fragmenting the community. I know that is not a new idea as
>>> several have mentioned the same idea. I also don't agree with
>>> the wild West approach. I'm sorry. But when you send email to a
>>> list of several hundred people, you are coming into their
>>> homes. And you did not have a right to abuse that privilege.
>>> Nor should several hundred people be expected to write
>>> filtersbecause of one or two outliers who make itunpleasant for
>>> everybody. If a list is said to be moderated, people who
>>> s

goodbye, Macvisionaries!

[Littlefield, Tyler]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello all,

It's been an interesting past couple of days. From the moment I
decided to start a new macvisionaries list, to all of the wildly off
topics of religious freedom, anarchy and the rest, to all of the great
responses I received from a lot of you, either for or against the
list. I'm taking everything and we're going to decide on the new list
the best way forward.

I would like to hope that I'm able to do the right thing here and that
this will help. Thanks everyone for the feedback and suggestions. Also
I apologize to everyone for the massive amount of messages this
generated. Please let me know if you have any questions.

My personal address is
ty...@tysdomain.com
 for any questions.
Also, the list information is as follows:
Subscribers can join the list by sending email to
macvisionaries-requ...@freelists.org

 with 'subscribe' in the Subject field OR by
visiting the list page at
http://www.freelists.org/list/macvisionaries


I hope that this will help. Plese feel free to get in touch with me.


- -- 
Take care,
Ty
twitter: @sorressean
web:http://tysdomain.com
pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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CereProc

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Hi all,

I just checked out CereProc again, and unless my ears deceive me, there does 
seem to be a substantial improvement since I last visited some years back.

Is anybody now using CereProc voices in production under VoiceOver, and how do 
they find it?  These voices are expensive—£25 a pop—so I want to be sure I’m 
not going to be surprised by the quality of the software.

Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: a new macvisionaries list

[Jessica Moss]

I actually was curious about that myself, why not just tighten up on the rules 
concerning this list than spend time creating a new one?
On Aug 26, 2015, at 2:46 AM, 'Gabriele Battaglia' via MacVisionaries 
 wrote:

> 
> 
> Reply to the Littlefield, Tyler's message, wrote on 26/08/2015 at 05:29:
> 
> Hi, sorry but, maybe I lost something.
> Why a new list?
> What is going to happen to this one?
> Thanks.
> Gabriel.
> 
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Re: Neospeech?

[Devin Prater]

But their new voices are still within voice dream. Does this mean they only 
have an SDK of sorts?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 9:05 AM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Nope.  I checked back in the day when I first got this here 2009 Mac book 
> pro.  The truth of the matter is this.  Neo speech no longer makes a consumer 
> product of any sourt:  not even for the poor windows devotees out there.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> 
> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
> Sent from my Mac,
> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Maybe a dumb  question, but neither Neospeech Kate nor Paul have been ported 
>> over to the mac, have they?
>>  
>> Chris.
>> 
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Re: My I O S 1 Day Chalenge Part2

[Devin Prater]

The only thing I hate about braille with Apple devices is that it doesn't show 
textual formatting like italics. Not even putting the braille signs for italics 
makes the text actually italicized.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:48 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So on the braille front?
> 
> Is it me or does braille support on the IOS devices like the pad and phone 
> work so much better than it does on the Mac with VO?
> 
> What’s that about?
> 
> I just got a braille device and I’m actually thinking (perish the thought) of 
> installing windows in a VM so I can use it with JFW instead of VoiceOver on 
> the computer side.
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 3:18 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Chris,
>> 
>> I run my business and personal life from my iPhone and my iPad. I turn my 
>> Mac on around once per week.
>> 
>> The biggest hint I can give you is, learn to use your touch screen. I use my 
>> touch screen all the time. I now use braille screen input for writing, 
>> including this email. You may well find yourself much more productive if you 
>> only use your keyboard for actually writing text. This, after all, is how 
>> the iPad and iPhone are designed to be used.
>> 
>> My fiancé is a specialised teacher of blind children. Now that she has 
>> adjusted her teaching to having the kids use touch screen gesture commands 
>> rather than keyboard commands, there has been a very significant increase in 
>> the students' abilities to keep up with their sighted peers.
>> 
>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On 26 Aug 2015, at 02:33, Christopher Gilland  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Guys,
>>> 
>>> OK so here is my next observation working soly with I O S exclusively for 
>>> this 1-day challenge.
>>> 
>>> This morning, the challenge has been forcing myself to check all of my 
>>> e-mail from my IPad.  I am not saying that I've never done e-mail from I O 
>>> S before.  Remember, I am a fairly advanced I O S user, however I'm 
>>> honestly starting to wonder if I really am as advanced as I gave myself 
>>> credit.  I definitely feel very weird doing things totally on a mobile 
>>> platform only.  I think it's more that I know what I'm doing, but it's just 
>>> a bit foreign to me, as I don't admittedly do this probably near as much as 
>>> I should.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, so e-mail... OK, realize that I'm basing this on doing things with 
>>> the IPad, not with an IPod/IPhone.  This said, I'm sure I'd run into some 
>>> of the same hurtles.  These things are definitely not show stoppers by any 
>>> means, but it's just taking some time for me to really get used to.
>>> 
>>> First off, I was under the impression that when using a bluetooth keyboard, 
>>> which I am, I could use some of the same keystrokes that are built into 
>>> Mail on the Mac.  For example, When sitting on a message in my inbox, 
>>> focused on the message list, I heard a message, something like, Unread, 
>>> Christopher-Mark Gilland: This is a test.  I also heard Voiceover tell me 
>>> that actions were available within my actions rotor.  I totally understand 
>>> that I could have pressed my down arrow key to move through these actions, 
>>> however, I was under the impression that if I was to simply just hit my 
>>> delete key, I then could delete that message with basically one keystroke.  
>>> Lamentably, this didn't work.  I'm not sure if that has anything to do with 
>>> the fact that I'm using IMap with GMail, but I seriously doubt it.  I don't 
>>> think I was in my GMail mailbox.  To the best of my knowledge, I was in my 
>>> unified inbox.
>>> 
>>> Finally, I found a message that I needed to read.  I pressed both my up and 
>>> down arrow keys together to perform a double tap on the item.  I admit I 
>>> was very impressed that even though the IPad uses a split screen, and 
>>> therefore the message list virtically stays on the left side of the screen, 
>>> Voiceover was smart enough to move my immediate focus to the content of the 
>>> message I'd just double tapped on.  I was then able to use quick nav and 
>>> simply left and right arrow through the message, as if I was flicking 
>>> through the screen to read its content.  I was blown away at how well 
>>> things worked on that front!
>>> 
>>> Now came my next, "Huh?" moment.  I went to reply to the message.  I was 
>>> hoping, though on a mobile platform, not OSX, that Apple would have 
>>> implemented some keyboard hotkeys for us bluetooth users.  I therefore just 
>>> out of a hunch tried hitting command+R.  Well, um, duh.  That kind a didn't 
>>> work, darn!  So I went to the place where I logically thought the reply 
>>> icon would be located... below the message.  I then discovered it actually 
>>> wasn't down there, but instead, unlike on the IPhone, is up at the top of 
>>> the screen right above the message content.
>>> 
>>> So, yeah, that was a little bit confusing.
>>> 
>>> Further, 

Re: My I O S 1 Day Chalenge Part2

[Scott Granados]

So I’m having real problems with Braille on the Mac and up front it’s probably 
the guy behind the keyboard not the software but others confirm so I don’t know.

I can’t do the basic stuff like hide applications or execute a lot of the VO 
commands.  Even the closing of windows with command W when remapped to a set of 
keys on my braille device is inconsistent.  Are you having better luck with 
this?  Several people have told me to use the keyboard and then just the 
braille when editing documents etc but this seems suboptimal.

What do you think are you having more luck with VO on the Mac?


> On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:52 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> The only thing I hate about braille with Apple devices is that it doesn't 
> show textual formatting like italics. Not even putting the braille signs for 
> italics makes the text actually italicized.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:48 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So on the braille front?
>> 
>> Is it me or does braille support on the IOS devices like the pad and phone 
>> work so much better than it does on the Mac with VO?
>> 
>> What’s that about?
>> 
>> I just got a braille device and I’m actually thinking (perish the thought) 
>> of installing windows in a VM so I can use it with JFW instead of VoiceOver 
>> on the computer side.
>> 
>>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 3:18 AM, David Chittenden  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Chris,
>>> 
>>> I run my business and personal life from my iPhone and my iPad. I turn my 
>>> Mac on around once per week.
>>> 
>>> The biggest hint I can give you is, learn to use your touch screen. I use 
>>> my touch screen all the time. I now use braille screen input for writing, 
>>> including this email. You may well find yourself much more productive if 
>>> you only use your keyboard for actually writing text. This, after all, is 
>>> how the iPad and iPhone are designed to be used.
>>> 
>>> My fiancé is a specialised teacher of blind children. Now that she has 
>>> adjusted her teaching to having the kids use touch screen gesture commands 
>>> rather than keyboard commands, there has been a very significant increase 
>>> in the students' abilities to keep up with their sighted peers.
>>> 
>>> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
>>> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
>>> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On 26 Aug 2015, at 02:33, Christopher Gilland  
 wrote:
 
 Guys,
 
 OK so here is my next observation working soly with I O S exclusively for 
 this 1-day challenge.
 
 This morning, the challenge has been forcing myself to check all of my 
 e-mail from my IPad.  I am not saying that I've never done e-mail from I O 
 S before.  Remember, I am a fairly advanced I O S user, however I'm 
 honestly starting to wonder if I really am as advanced as I gave myself 
 credit.  I definitely feel very weird doing things totally on a mobile 
 platform only.  I think it's more that I know what I'm doing, but it's 
 just a bit foreign to me, as I don't admittedly do this probably near as 
 much as I should.
 
 Anyway, so e-mail... OK, realize that I'm basing this on doing things with 
 the IPad, not with an IPod/IPhone.  This said, I'm sure I'd run into some 
 of the same hurtles.  These things are definitely not show stoppers by any 
 means, but it's just taking some time for me to really get used to.
 
 First off, I was under the impression that when using a bluetooth 
 keyboard, which I am, I could use some of the same keystrokes that are 
 built into Mail on the Mac.  For example, When sitting on a message in my 
 inbox, focused on the message list, I heard a message, something like, 
 Unread, Christopher-Mark Gilland: This is a test.  I also heard Voiceover 
 tell me that actions were available within my actions rotor.  I totally 
 understand that I could have pressed my down arrow key to move through 
 these actions, however, I was under the impression that if I was to simply 
 just hit my delete key, I then could delete that message with basically 
 one keystroke.  Lamentably, this didn't work.  I'm not sure if that has 
 anything to do with the fact that I'm using IMap with GMail, but I 
 seriously doubt it.  I don't think I was in my GMail mailbox.  To the best 
 of my knowledge, I was in my unified inbox.
 
 Finally, I found a message that I needed to read.  I pressed both my up 
 and down arrow keys together to perform a double tap on the item.  I admit 
 I was very impressed that even though the IPad uses a split screen, and 
 therefore the message list virtically stays on the left side of the 
 screen, Voiceover was smart enough to move my immediate focus to the 
 content of the message I'd just double tapped on.  I was then able to use 
 quick nav and simply left and right arrow through the message, as if I was 
 flicking through the screen to r

Re: My I O S 1 Day Chalenge Part2

[Devin Prater]

It may be your braille display. I've not had problems.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 9:55 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> So I’m having real problems with Braille on the Mac and up front it’s 
> probably the guy behind the keyboard not the software but others confirm so I 
> don’t know.
> 
> I can’t do the basic stuff like hide applications or execute a lot of the VO 
> commands.  Even the closing of windows with command W when remapped to a set 
> of keys on my braille device is inconsistent.  Are you having better luck 
> with this?  Several people have told me to use the keyboard and then just the 
> braille when editing documents etc but this seems suboptimal.
> 
> What do you think are you having more luck with VO on the Mac?
> 
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:52 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>> 
>> The only thing I hate about braille with Apple devices is that it doesn't 
>> show textual formatting like italics. Not even putting the braille signs for 
>> italics makes the text actually italicized.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:48 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> So on the braille front?
>>> 
>>> Is it me or does braille support on the IOS devices like the pad and phone 
>>> work so much better than it does on the Mac with VO?
>>> 
>>> What’s that about?
>>> 
>>> I just got a braille device and I’m actually thinking (perish the thought) 
>>> of installing windows in a VM so I can use it with JFW instead of VoiceOver 
>>> on the computer side.
>>> 
 On Aug 27, 2015, at 3:18 AM, David Chittenden  
 wrote:
 
 Hi Chris,
 
 I run my business and personal life from my iPhone and my iPad. I turn my 
 Mac on around once per week.
 
 The biggest hint I can give you is, learn to use your touch screen. I use 
 my touch screen all the time. I now use braille screen input for writing, 
 including this email. You may well find yourself much more productive if 
 you only use your keyboard for actually writing text. This, after all, is 
 how the iPad and iPhone are designed to be used.
 
 My fiancé is a specialised teacher of blind children. Now that she has 
 adjusted her teaching to having the kids use touch screen gesture commands 
 rather than keyboard commands, there has been a very significant increase 
 in the students' abilities to keep up with their sighted peers.
 
 David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
 Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
 Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
 Sent from my iPhone
 
> On 26 Aug 2015, at 02:33, Christopher Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Guys,
> 
> OK so here is my next observation working soly with I O S exclusively for 
> this 1-day challenge.
> 
> This morning, the challenge has been forcing myself to check all of my 
> e-mail from my IPad.  I am not saying that I've never done e-mail from I 
> O S before.  Remember, I am a fairly advanced I O S user, however I'm 
> honestly starting to wonder if I really am as advanced as I gave myself 
> credit.  I definitely feel very weird doing things totally on a mobile 
> platform only.  I think it's more that I know what I'm doing, but it's 
> just a bit foreign to me, as I don't admittedly do this probably near as 
> much as I should.
> 
> Anyway, so e-mail... OK, realize that I'm basing this on doing things 
> with the IPad, not with an IPod/IPhone.  This said, I'm sure I'd run into 
> some of the same hurtles.  These things are definitely not show stoppers 
> by any means, but it's just taking some time for me to really get used to.
> 
> First off, I was under the impression that when using a bluetooth 
> keyboard, which I am, I could use some of the same keystrokes that are 
> built into Mail on the Mac.  For example, When sitting on a message in my 
> inbox, focused on the message list, I heard a message, something like, 
> Unread, Christopher-Mark Gilland: This is a test.  I also heard Voiceover 
> tell me that actions were available within my actions rotor.  I totally 
> understand that I could have pressed my down arrow key to move through 
> these actions, however, I was under the impression that if I was to 
> simply just hit my delete key, I then could delete that message with 
> basically one keystroke.  Lamentably, this didn't work.  I'm not sure if 
> that has anything to do with the fact that I'm using IMap with GMail, but 
> I seriously doubt it.  I don't think I was in my GMail mailbox.  To the 
> best of my knowledge, I was in my unified inbox.
> 
> Finally, I found a message that I needed to read.  I pressed both my up 
> and down arrow keys together to perform a double tap on the item.  I 
> admit I was very impressed that even though the IPad uses a split screen, 
> and therefore the message list virtically stays on the left side of the 
> screen, Voi

Re: audible books on the Mac

[Faisal ali]

so just to clarify, I import the book into iTunes after its done downloading? I 
don’t have safari automatically open files after downloading so I would need to 
take the intermediary step of importing. How exactly is the best way of 
importing said book into iTunes? Do  I simply open the file and that will 
initiate the import process?

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 2:55 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland  
> wrote:
> 
> Andrew,
> 
> What the other list member is trying to say, if I'm correctly understanding 
> them is, yes, deauthorize is there, just not authorize.  If you want to 
> deauthorize, then yes.  You go to the Store menu.  However if you are trying 
> to authorize in the first place, you need to first import a book, then you 
> should be prompted to enter your Audible login credentials.  Does that make a 
> little more sense?
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Andrew Lamanche" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 12:49 PM
> Subject: Re: audible books on the Mac
> 
> 
> Sorry, I run the latest iTunes and I still have "deauthorise" audible 
> account" under the store menu item so I assumed there would have been its 
> opposite, .e. "authorise audible account'.  Didn't mean to mislead.
> 
> Andrew
>> On 26 Aug 2015, at 16:59, Faisal ali  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi there Andrew,
>> This is no longer the way its done since iTunes 12.2. According to the help 
>> page I read, the only way to authorize is by downloading a book. If you look 
>> in the store menu in iTunes, they only thing pertinent to audible is 
>> reauthorize audible account, not authorize.
>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Andrew Lamanche  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hello,
>>> 
>>> Open Itunes and go to the "store" menu item and arrow down to the item 
>>> authorise this computer for audible account or something very similar. This 
>>> will allow you to authorise your computer to play audible books via ituens. 
>>>  remember to deauthorise your computer with Audible should you have to 
>>> change your computers or wipe it clean because Audible only allows a number 
>>> of devices to play their content.
>>> 
>>> Andrew
 On 26 Aug 2015, at 14:58, Faisal ali  wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 Recently, I’ve subscribed to audible and I wish to be able to read such 
 books on my mac. As I understand, this can be done in iTunes but one needs 
 to authorize one’s computer to be able to make this happen. Firstly, is 
 there anyone on this list who read audible books on their macs? Secondly, 
 how accessible was the authorization process? Based on what I read, one 
 needs to download a book and once the book finishes downloading, the 
 computer will prompt for a audible username and password to authorize the 
 machine.
 Thanks much.
 
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Re: My I O S 1 Day Chalenge Part2

[Scott Granados]

Which display are you using?  I’m trying the Focus 40 Blue.

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:57 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
> 
> It may be your braille display. I've not had problems.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 9:55 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
>> 
>> So I’m having real problems with Braille on the Mac and up front it’s 
>> probably the guy behind the keyboard not the software but others confirm so 
>> I don’t know.
>> 
>> I can’t do the basic stuff like hide applications or execute a lot of the VO 
>> commands.  Even the closing of windows with command W when remapped to a set 
>> of keys on my braille device is inconsistent.  Are you having better luck 
>> with this?  Several people have told me to use the keyboard and then just 
>> the braille when editing documents etc but this seems suboptimal.
>> 
>> What do you think are you having more luck with VO on the Mac?
>> 
>> 
>>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:52 AM, Devin Prater  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The only thing I hate about braille with Apple devices is that it doesn't 
>>> show textual formatting like italics. Not even putting the braille signs 
>>> for italics makes the text actually italicized.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
 On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:48 AM, Scott Granados  
 wrote:
 
 So on the braille front?
 
 Is it me or does braille support on the IOS devices like the pad and phone 
 work so much better than it does on the Mac with VO?
 
 What’s that about?
 
 I just got a braille device and I’m actually thinking (perish the thought) 
 of installing windows in a VM so I can use it with JFW instead of 
 VoiceOver on the computer side.
 
> On Aug 27, 2015, at 3:18 AM, David Chittenden  
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Chris,
> 
> I run my business and personal life from my iPhone and my iPad. I turn my 
> Mac on around once per week.
> 
> The biggest hint I can give you is, learn to use your touch screen. I use 
> my touch screen all the time. I now use braille screen input for writing, 
> including this email. You may well find yourself much more productive if 
> you only use your keyboard for actually writing text. This, after all, is 
> how the iPad and iPhone are designed to be used.
> 
> My fiancé is a specialised teacher of blind children. Now that she has 
> adjusted her teaching to having the kids use touch screen gesture 
> commands rather than keyboard commands, there has been a very significant 
> increase in the students' abilities to keep up with their sighted peers.
> 
> David Chittenden, MSc, MRCAA
> Email: dchitten...@gmail.com
> Mobile: +64 21 2288 288
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 26 Aug 2015, at 02:33, Christopher Gilland  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Guys,
>> 
>> OK so here is my next observation working soly with I O S exclusively 
>> for this 1-day challenge.
>> 
>> This morning, the challenge has been forcing myself to check all of my 
>> e-mail from my IPad.  I am not saying that I've never done e-mail from I 
>> O S before.  Remember, I am a fairly advanced I O S user, however I'm 
>> honestly starting to wonder if I really am as advanced as I gave myself 
>> credit.  I definitely feel very weird doing things totally on a mobile 
>> platform only.  I think it's more that I know what I'm doing, but it's 
>> just a bit foreign to me, as I don't admittedly do this probably near as 
>> much as I should.
>> 
>> Anyway, so e-mail... OK, realize that I'm basing this on doing things 
>> with the IPad, not with an IPod/IPhone.  This said, I'm sure I'd run 
>> into some of the same hurtles.  These things are definitely not show 
>> stoppers by any means, but it's just taking some time for me to really 
>> get used to.
>> 
>> First off, I was under the impression that when using a bluetooth 
>> keyboard, which I am, I could use some of the same keystrokes that are 
>> built into Mail on the Mac.  For example, When sitting on a message in 
>> my inbox, focused on the message list, I heard a message, something 
>> like, Unread, Christopher-Mark Gilland: This is a test.  I also heard 
>> Voiceover tell me that actions were available within my actions rotor.  
>> I totally understand that I could have pressed my down arrow key to move 
>> through these actions, however, I was under the impression that if I was 
>> to simply just hit my delete key, I then could delete that message with 
>> basically one keystroke.  Lamentably, this didn't work.  I'm not sure if 
>> that has anything to do with the fact that I'm using IMap with GMail, 
>> but I seriously doubt it.  I don't think I was in my GMail mailbox.  To 
>> the best of my knowledge, I was in my unified inbox.
>> 
>> Finally, I found a message that I needed to read.  I pressed both my up 
>> and down arrow 

Re: Neospeech?

[Singing Sparrow]

Yes they still make the sapi 5 versions of their voices available, you 
just need to contact them to get the demos of their voices.


On 8/27/2015 9:46 AM, Devin Prater wrote:
But their new voices are still within voice dream. Does this mean they 
only have an SDK of sorts?


Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 27, 2015, at 9:05 AM, Ray Foret Jr > wrote:


Nope.  I checked back in the day when I first got this here 2009 Mac 
book pro.  The truth of the matter is this.  Neo speech no longer 
makes a consumer product of any sourt:  not even for the poor windows 
devotees out there.



Sincerely,
The Constantly Barefooted Ray

Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!

Sent from my Mac,
the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in

On Aug 27, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote:


Maybe a dumb question, but neither Neospeech Kate nor Paul have been 
ported over to the mac, have they?

Chris.

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Re: iTerm?

[Scott Granados]

Do you have a good pointer for ITerm.  I’ve never used it but will gladly give 
it a shot.

THere’s another package I tried I think it’s Term or something like that which 
I couldn’t get any output out of at all with VO.  I’d like to find a better 
terminal program as well so would be glad to try this out.

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 9:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Anyone here have any experience of iTerm?  I’m wondering if it might be any 
> more responsive than Terminal, or any more prone to ease of VoiceOver access, 
> especially for automatically reading output and stopping navigation at window 
> boundaries.  The rest of the features look interesting, but I’m reluctant to 
> replace Terminal unless these issues are much improved on.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
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Re: CereProc

[Anders Holmberg]

Hi!
I was going to try it out but they didn’t have a swedish voice so i gave up.
But i asked them to create a swedish voice.
And actually i got a positive answer.
Maybe i should try it out again.
/A
> 27 aug. 2015 kl. 16:37 skrev Sabahattin Gucukoglu :
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I just checked out CereProc again, and unless my ears deceive me, there does 
> seem to be a substantial improvement since I last visited some years back.
> 
> Is anybody now using CereProc voices in production under VoiceOver, and how 
> do they find it?  These voices are expensive—£25 a pop—so I want to be sure 
> I’m not going to be surprised by the quality of the software.
> 
> Cheers,
> Sabahattin
> 
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Re: Neospeech?

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Yes, I can confirm that they still make voices for windows. I bought James for 
Windows in 2013. As for NeoSpeech on the Mac, let me just say that I suggested 
it to them and they said that they have no interest in making it for the Mac.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 9:05 AM, Ray Foret Jr  wrote:
> 
> Nope.  I checked back in the day when I first got this here 2009 Mac book 
> pro.  The truth of the matter is this.  Neo speech no longer makes a consumer 
> product of any sourt:  not even for the poor windows devotees out there.
> 
> 
> Sincerely,
> The Constantly Barefooted Ray
> 
> Still a happy Mac, Verizon Wireless iPhone 6+ and Apple TV user!
> 
> Sent from my Mac,
> the only computer with full accessibility for the blind built-in
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 4:48 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Maybe a dumb  question, but neither Neospeech Kate nor Paul have been ported 
>> over to the mac, have they?
>>  
>> Chris.
>> 
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Re: Moderator Note - Important -was- Re: So is this list going to die or not?

[CJ Daniel]

Cara,

As someone who once held his own child while she passed, I can sympathize  with 
your distress as you faceend-of-life issues  with a friend.  However, as I 
learned during a similar time of my own, life goes on.  In particular, I had to 
continue dealing with the day-to-day aspects of my job @ a busy non-profit 
organization & delegate responsibilities to others as required.  

However, all of that being said, I don’t believe that the level of frustration, 
being experienced by the majority of this list’s members, is either understood 
or being acted upon by you or any other moderator.  In addition, I don’t feel 
that a lecture on maturity or the usage of the delete key is warranted or 
appropriate.  You are in effect calling the well-behaved members of this list 
to higher standards, while asking them to ignore or overlook the poor behavior 
of the individual who has chosen to ignore polite conventions that help to 
govern the interactions of society.  Honestly, some of the posts I’ve seen by 
this individual directed a while back @ one of the ladies on this list, if 
directed @ my wife or one of my daughters, would have been cause for a swift & 
violent physical reaction.

In short, while I feel deeply for you, the situation on this list has been 
ignored for far to long & is snow-balling.  The, kind & considerate members of 
this list are, basically, pleading with you to either appoint a moderator who 
will act on these sorts of issues or—if life’s circumstances are preventing 
your full participation in this list’s activities—then relinquish ownership to 
some one who has the time & where-with-all to make a positive difference.  I 
hope you can understand that all of this is offered with compassion towards 
you.  

With great regard,

CJ Daniel


> On Aug 26, 2015, at 4:11 PM, Cara Quinn  wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> firstly, this list is not going to die.
> 
> Now, to be completely frank and honest with you all. I have been in the 
> hospital for days now, visiting with a very dear one to me, who is passing 
> away.
> 
> So honestly, I cannot address any of these matters right now.
> 
> The fact is, you are all adults and you know enough to ignore posts or 
> posters who simply want (for whatever reason) to incite or stir the pot so to 
> speak.
> 
> So if there is a message you do not wish to read, or do not agree with, just 
> delete it and move on. This is the adult thing to do.
> 
> Neither a list owner or moderator are magic people who make everything 
> alright. Yes, we can ban people, etc, but in the end, this comes down to you 
> all managing yourselves in a way which you all are proud of.
> 
> that is what makes this list worth something.
> 
> So if you feel this list is a resource you wish to preserve and help to grow, 
> as you have been doing now for years, then just simply act in accordance with 
> those beliefs which you know to be right and the rest will follow.
> 
> I promise you, I will address this more fully when I can. I am sure (or at 
> least would hope) that in light of these circumstances, that you would 
> understand.
> 
> My sincerest apologies that there have been issues of late. Some of these are 
> actually being dealt with already, in the background, but the fact that this 
> topic exists says that you need more.
> 
> I will do more as soon as I can.
> 
> For now, please use your own good judgement and simply act as you know you 
> should, and this list will be the kind and helping place that it has been.
> 
> Thank you all for reading this and I will be in touch again soon.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Cara
> ---
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> ---
> View my Online Portfolio at:
> 
> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn
> 
> Follow me on Twitter!
> 
> https://twitter.com/ModelCara
> 
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 1:57 PM, Kawal Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> Just wondering after reading all the messages of whether this list should be 
> or not be, is this list going to continue or is it going to die?
> 
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Re: CereProc

[Shawn Krasniuk]

Hi. I can say that under Yosemite they work perfectly. If you want to know if 
they work under El Capitan, write me off list and I'll tell you. But only if 
you are a beta tester.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 10:15 AM, Anders Holmberg  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
> I was going to try it out but they didn’t have a swedish voice so i gave up.
> But i asked them to create a swedish voice.
> And actually i got a positive answer.
> Maybe i should try it out again.
> /A
>> 27 aug. 2015 kl. 16:37 skrev Sabahattin Gucukoglu :
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I just checked out CereProc again, and unless my ears deceive me, there does 
>> seem to be a substantial improvement since I last visited some years back.
>> 
>> Is anybody now using CereProc voices in production under VoiceOver, and how 
>> do they find it?  These voices are expensive—£25 a pop—so I want to be sure 
>> I’m not going to be surprised by the quality of the software.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Sabahattin
>> 
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Re: Trasferring file.

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

Hi Gabriele,

You’re right, Skype is a good idea.  It has NAT traversal built-in.  It will 
save you a lot of work.

Let’s say you’re insane and decide to do this the hard way anyway.  Basically 
what you have to do is tell the box that manages your Internet connection to 
knock a hole in its firewall and send traffic destined for a port, say port 22 
for remote login, to your Mac.  You could try this tool to do it using a port 
mapping protocol, which will open up the hole for a while:
http://codingmonkeys.de/portmap/

If that doesn’t work, next you’ll have to log in to your router and do it 
yourself with the web interface.  That, I’m sorry to say, is different by 
router …

Finally create the new user account, and tell the remote side to scp or sftp to 
your public IP address, as reported by PortMap or your router.  They have to 
log in with the user and password you give them.  Finally they transfer the 
file.

If that sounds like a lot of work just to send a file, that’s because it is. :(

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Numbers Cel Formatting Question

[Emilio Hernandez]

Hello everyone,

I am trying to change cell attributes, specifically, the digit count in a cell.
When inserting a numbers with zeros at the beginning, they are not displayed, 
but the remaining 4-digits out of the 6-digit number is visible.
How do I change this feature?

I do not see anything within the cell format area of the inspector pain.
I changed the series of cells to reflect numbers, but this has not helped.

Thanks for any help anyone can provide.

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Re: iTerm?

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

iTerm2 home page is here:
https://www.iterm2.com/

Not on the MAS, as far as I can see.

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Re: My I O S 1 Day Chalenge Part2

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

It’s not you.

You’re right.  Braille support in OS X’s VoiceOver is truly lamentable.  I’m 
the same: run a VM with Windows or Linux in it for braille support that 
actually works.  Usually Linux, for BRLTTY which I can use to ssh back in to 
the Mac for more extensive tasks.

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Re: My I O S 1 Day Chalenge Part2

[Scott Granados]

Is there a specific linux bistro that you use that supports braille better or 
just download one I like and install Braille TTY?

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 11:59 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> It’s not you.
> 
> You’re right.  Braille support in OS X’s VoiceOver is truly lamentable.  I’m 
> the same: run a VM with Windows or Linux in it for braille support that 
> actually works.  Usually Linux, for BRLTTY which I can use to ssh back in to 
> the Mac for more extensive tasks.
> 
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Office 2016?

[Joe Quinn]

Is ms office 2016 for the mac out yet? If so is it accessible?

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Re: My I O S 1 Day Chalenge Part2

[Sabahattin Gucukoglu]

I use Debian unstable with a BrailleNote Apex. The installer images of Debian 
support BRLTTY so you can install out of the box.  You will need to tweak 
things a bit if you use any USB adaptors or serial interfaces but it’s not 
hard; often things just autodetect. Then under VMWare Fusion you just pass the 
USB device through, and now your guest has full control of the display.

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Re: My I O S 1 Day Chalenge Part2

[Scott Granados]

I’m going to give this a shot.

Thanks for the specifics and pointers.

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 12:33 PM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
> 
> I use Debian unstable with a BrailleNote Apex. The installer images of Debian 
> support BRLTTY so you can install out of the box.  You will need to tweak 
> things a bit if you use any USB adaptors or serial interfaces but it’s not 
> hard; often things just autodetect. Then under VMWare Fusion you just pass 
> the USB device through, and now your guest has full control of the display.
> 
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Quick Mod note - A number of quick Re: a new macvisionaries list

[Cara Quinn]

Hi All,

I just want to send this quick note along first, to thank those of you who have 
offered their support to me and those I love.

this truly means a lot to me and please know that this is not something I take 
lightly nor will forget. So thank you!

Now, on to some quick list business;

Firstly, tyler, my apologies, but I have not seen a single private message from 
you over the last months. So I was not aware that you were offering to assist 
with list moderation or that you were upset with this list.

I apparently seem to be having some email issues (which have been going on now 
for months) so I have occasionally missed important notes. I apologize for this 
but do not (as yet) know why this is happening.

Secondly, To those who have suggested that there be another mod, there actually 
has been someone already, who is helping out. -And, I am also looking at others 
right now as well.

To the poster who has alluded to my letting the list go, I am not actually 
clear on what you mean by this. As you already know, I have not been able to 
keep up with these last threads, but I will not delete any of these messages 
until I can give them the attention they deserve. So I will address this when I 
can, as I said yesterday.

Also, thank you to the poster who mentioned the original list ownership. Unlike 
VIPhone, (which I started) I was fortunate enough to inherit ownership of this 
list from Saqib Sheikh, who did an amazing job starting this community.  
Despite the issues sometimes, I am very grateful for the chance to help keep 
this community going. So again, please know that I do not take any of this 
lightly.

Lastly, for the moment, can we please move on from this and get back to the 
informational discussions concerning the Mac / Apple products? Please close the 
topics which are advertising other mailing lists and / or justifying opinions 
of one or the other poster etc?

Please understand, I ask this simply to bring better focus since this is what 
many of you seem to be asking for. Personally, I like wide and varied 
discussion as long as it is respectful. If we need more focus though, then it 
is better to apply all these current energies to that, rather than simply 
trying to justify one opinion over another.

As I mentioned yesterday, please just use your own good judgement and this will 
be fine.

Hope this makes sense and I thank you once again for your understanding. I will 
check in again as soon as I can.

Cheers!

Cara
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On Aug 27, 2015, at 8:00 AM, Shaf  wrote:

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256

It's pretty ridiculous that this thread is more than 100 messages long.



On 8/27/2015 2:55 PM, Littlefield, Tyler wrote:
> Hello: I'm a bit baffled by this response, because you're trying to
> make Chris sound like this reasonable guy who sometimes just might
> slip with the f-bomb. This is not the case. Less than a month ago I
> said something that bothered him. I woke up to 20+ emails at least
> cursing and ranting. There is no call for that.
> 
> I'm also going to say I find it mildly amusing that this uproar is 
> because of a specific person but also because how the list has 
> devolved and he just kind of ignores that and moves on to trying
> to sound sensable again. I'm curious how much of his junk is
> getting blocked/how soon it will take him to devolve.
> 
> But to make it clear, this isn't specifically for one person. I
> feel like I've said this 500 times. It's because the list was
> allowed to devolve and a majority of the community does not like
> that. I'm also calling an end to this endless debate on my behalf,
> no matter what I'll say you'll just scream "You idiot just filter,"
> and that's fine. Chocolate and vanilla, remember?
> 
> On 8/27/2015 8:59 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
>> First off, nothing Chris says or could say offends me or for
>> that matter nothing anyone says on any of these mailing lists
>> offends me or would chase me away. Secondly, I’ve actually taken
>> the time to talk to Chris off line and also seen a whole
>> different side to his responses on another list where there was a
>> lot of attacking going on so I have radically changed my opinion
>> of him from when I first ran in to him some time ago.  Does he
>> push the boundaries and get out of line sometimes, sure but so do
>> I and a lot of people. All moderation means to me is someone
>> either can’t police themselves, they need to have their hand held
>> and content managed for them and or someone has a power trip they
>> need to feed and wants their own personal kingdom to rule over
>> and dictate to everyone else what they will say or how they will
>> act etc.  No thank you. I’d rather have a little noise and
>> exercise my delete finger than have someone else dictate content
>> standards to me.
> 
> 
>> 

Re: iTerm?

[Jonathan C. Cohn]

George nachman is listed as dev.  http://iterm2.com/features.htmlSounds great, 
yyou can set up regular expression triggers that cause growl notifications. I 
am not sure about the mouse features and if they would work with VoiceOver. I 
had been keeping a change message from the develoer to llook at once I was back 
in Macintoh usable mode. 

How is IPv6 going these days.
 


Jonathan Cohn 

> On Aug 27, 2015, at 11:11 AM, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Do you have a good pointer for ITerm.  I’ve never used it but will gladly 
> give it a shot.
> 
> THere’s another package I tried I think it’s Term or something like that 
> which I couldn’t get any output out of at all with VO.  I’d like to find a 
> better terminal program as well so would be glad to try this out.
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 9:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> Anyone here have any experience of iTerm?  I’m wondering if it might be any 
>> more responsive than Terminal, or any more prone to ease of VoiceOver 
>> access, especially for automatically reading output and stopping navigation 
>> at window boundaries.  The rest of the features look interesting, but I’m 
>> reluctant to replace Terminal unless these issues are much improved on.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Sabahattin
>> 
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Re: iTerm?

[Scott Granados]

IP V6 is a good thing. (tm)

:)

I’ve been running in to it a lot more lately.  Tested a lot of JunOS code with 
an Ixia and IP V6 test streams.  I’ve also noticed that Comcast is supporting 
native V6, Verizon isn’t there yet though, at least on FIOS.


> On Aug 27, 2015, at 1:20 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn  wrote:
> 
> George nachman is listed as dev.  http://iterm2.com/features.htmlSounds 
> great, yyou can set up regular expression triggers that cause growl 
> notifications. I am not sure about the mouse features and if they would work 
> with VoiceOver. I had been keeping a change message from the develoer to 
> llook at once I was back in Macintoh usable mode. 
> 
> How is IPv6 going these days.
> 
> 
> 
> Jonathan Cohn 
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 11:11 AM, Scott Granados  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Do you have a good pointer for ITerm.  I’ve never used it but will gladly 
>> give it a shot.
>> 
>> THere’s another package I tried I think it’s Term or something like that 
>> which I couldn’t get any output out of at all with VO.  I’d like to find a 
>> better terminal program as well so would be glad to try this out.
>> 
>>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 9:23 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> 
>>> Anyone here have any experience of iTerm?  I’m wondering if it might be any 
>>> more responsive than Terminal, or any more prone to ease of VoiceOver 
>>> access, especially for automatically reading output and stopping navigation 
>>> at window boundaries.  The rest of the features look interesting, but I’m 
>>> reluctant to replace Terminal unless these issues are much improved on.
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sabahattin
>>> 
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Re: destructive people and their right to freedom of speech

[Eric Oyen]

that one actually goes back to an original quote my mom used to use:
" your right to smoke extends only so far as it doesn't interfere with my right 
to breath.". 

-eric

On Aug 27, 2015, at 6:42 AM, Scott Granados wrote:

> Your rights end where my nose begins.
> 
> I like that!
> 
> I’ve never heard that one before.  That’s a great expression.
> 
>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 5:06 PM, Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>> 
>> Again I must agree.
>> there is a Maxim in legal studies, your rights end where my nose begins. One 
>>  meaning of this is that I and only i in the end decide if something is 
>> offensive...largely because the other party is not going to agree regardless.
>> so, the greater question is why are you giving one person so much power over 
>> you that you have to run away to another list?
>> To be honest, I  am on this list, and I am totally lost as to who has 
>> started another  challenge...because I just do not  read, or take personally 
>> messages that are not true for me.
>> Karen
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, 27 Aug 2015, Yuma Decaux wrote:
>> 
>>> See what happens and keep this status quo going on while a majority is 
>>> agreeing on several points? So we’re just discussing uselessly is this 
>>> correct?
>>> 
 On 27/08/2015, at 2:41 AM, Jim Gatteys  wrote:
 
 I guess we'll just have to see what happens.
 I personally think it is counter productive to let one person make the 
 entire list not a good place for its members.  But with all this 
 discussion we are giving him more attention which is probably what he 
 wants in the first place.
 Jim
 
 
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:27 AM, Scott Granados  
> wrote:
> 
> That’s an easy one, because no one person can and should speak for anyone 
> else.
> 
> We’ve already discussed on this thread what happens when a moderator goes 
> all power hungry.  I remember when it happened on an iteration of this 
> list probably 4 years back now and most people left the group because the 
> moderator in this case was on crack.
> 
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:57 AM, Jim Gatteys  wrote:
>> 
>> Why should everybody have to create a rule to filter out one 
>> objectionable person when a moderator could handle that quickly and 
>> efficiently.
>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 10:04 AM, Scott Granados  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Just add the objectionable person to a rule and move it automatically 
>>> to the trash.
>>> 
>>> Simple, problem solved and no moderation.
>>> 
 On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:01 AM, Yuma Decaux  wrote:
 
 ET is right, I am afraid to say this.
 
 I cannot count the number of times this person has fired out, 
 insulted, then asked pardon, justifying some personal issues which do 
 not belong to any mailing list, then repeat the process almost within 
 the hour. If he is so defensive and threatening towards so many 
 people, this is because these responders also feel offended by his 
 words. There is a democratic process going on, a natural finger 
 pointing of someone who just abuses the fact that there are no 
 moderators in this list. Some of us try to resolve this one way or the 
 other but nothing will be done if no one takes action, gas bagging and 
 cackering instead in the drainpipe of opinionated expression. The 
 latter is useless. Action can solve everything.
 
 Take care
 
 
 
> On 27/08/2015, at 12:43 AM, E.T.  wrote:
> 
> There are as many opinions here as there are members of this group. 
> This issue is generating a lot of traffic that is not helpful to the 
> grpup. We have one person who cannot control himself. Banning him 
> will break the fever and let the group move on.
> 
> From E.T.'s Keyboard...
> ancient.ali...@icloud.com
> Many believe that we have been visited
> in the past. What if it were true?
> 
> On 8/26/2015 7:31 AM, Yuma Decaux wrote:
>> A very simple solution is for everyone to be aware that the list is 
>> moderated, and throw in a public warning to whoever is continuously 
>> abusing others verbally, not necessarily ban the person. The point 
>> is to make the offensive person reflect on themselves. Banning them 
>> would result in upsets and possible worse attitudes in other lists.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 26/08/2015, at 10:39 PM, Scott Granados 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Yes until you’ve eventually removed everyone from deviating from 
>>> your acceptable use over time.
>>> 
>>> Banning someone from any mailing list is just weak sauce.  The only 
>>> exception to that at least for me is spammers.  There have been 
>>> serious lack of mod

Re: two questions about the Mac

[christopher hallsworth]

This has all changed since Fusion 6. You just select to try Fusion or Fusion 
Pro, follow the instructions and begin your 30 days evaluation. No more 
submitting an online form and waiting for a key to be emailed to you.
> On 27 Aug 2015, at 14:24, Scott Granados  wrote:
> 
> Chris, you need to also have a key even a 30 day demo key.
> 
> You can’t just install it and run it I don’t believe.  (correct me if I’m 
> wrong)
> 
> You have to fill out a trial form with several bits of info and then a key is 
> emailed to you to add.  So even with the DMG I don’t think you’ll get that 
> far.
> 
> What do you think?
> 
>> On Aug 27, 2015, at 7:11 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Caitlyn,
>> 
>> Beautiful name By the way, thank you so much for your quick response.  That 
>> is kind of what I suspected regarding the download of version 8.  I wonder 
>> if anyone up here may be so kind as to have a Sendspace or a Dropbox link 
>> they could share of the DMG.  I'm not asking for a pirated copy or anything, 
>> LOL! Make that very clear.  I'm only wanting the DMG itself with the 
>> installer, so that I can run it as a demo, and evaluate if I want to 
>> purchase it.
>> 
>> Chris.
>> 
>> - Original Message - From: "Caitlyn Furness" 
>> 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 7:07 AM
>> Subject: Re: two questions about the Mac
>> 
>> 
>> For Fusion, you probably have to go to their incredible inaccessable web 
>> site and get the new version.  In the notice about the fusion update, there 
>> should be a button to click on that says something like “learn more”, or 
>> “update now”. this will take you to their web site.
>> 
>> I am still using fusion 6.x so if they’ve changed things since then I can’t 
>> help more..
>> Cait
>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 9:47 PM, Juliette Swiler  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi,
>>> My first question is I got an update notice for Fusion and I only see a 
>>> learn more button, but no option to install it. How do I go about this? 
>>> Also, in iTunes, I am having a strange problem where my podcasts will not 
>>> update properly. However, they update properly via the podcasts app on my 
>>> iPhone.
>>> Thanks.
>>> 
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Re: suggestion [was: Re: the anti cleaning article]

[Eric Oyen]

it doesn't specifically mention headers, but the filter setting has a listing 
for "entire message" which can contain a header line. You can find those 
original header lines (which are hidden) by using the command+shift+U to see 
the message source. Highlighting and copying are treated normally.

-eric

On Aug 27, 2015, at 12:14 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland wrote:

> Wo!  You can even do it based off the headers?  OK, I need to like, 
> seriously! go look more at the filterring settings then.  That is something I 
> admittedly didn't know.  If that's the case, then that is really really cool!
> 
> I just wish that I O S had filterring capability without you having to do it 
> on the server side.  Oh well though.  You can't have everything.  Smile.
> 
> Chris.
> 
> - Original Message - From: "Eric Oyen" 
> To: 
> Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 4:32 PM
> Subject: Re: suggestion [was: Re: the anti cleaning article]
> 
> 
> yep. I use apple mail here and it has a very large selection of filters I can 
> use. I can even filter based on any of the hidden header information (those 
> pesky X-lines). It has allowed me to dump more spam than even gmail could 
> (and do it properly).
> 
> -eric
> 
> On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:10 AM, Scott Granados wrote:
> 
>> This is what I was suggesting but several folks got their panties in a bunch 
>> and feel that filtering is unacceptable.  They’d rather be spoon fed I 
>> suppose than work their own silverware.
>> 
>> Good point though
>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 2:05 PM, Eric Oyen  wrote:
>>> 
>>> may I offer a suggestion? there are mail filters that can be applied from 
>>> the end user. Most mail clients can actually do this based on a number of 
>>> criteria. So, if someone uses a foul tongue and makes threats, just filter 
>>> their mail into the trash based on that offenders email address, or based 
>>> on a list of words that are offensive. THe offender will realize with 
>>> alacrity that his messages are being ignore and will go elsewhere.
>>> 
>>> Just a thought.
>>> 
>>> -eric
>>> 
>>> On Aug 26, 2015, at 10:56 AM, Sabahattin Gucukoglu wrote:
>>> 
 Of course, as always, it helps to remember that if nobody replied to the 
 abuser, we wouldn’t have these issues.  But it also helps to know that a 
 moderator can do this quickly in response to a general consensus or clear 
 harm being done, and that, for better or worse, people will respond 
 angrily to threads and contribute to their derailment.  I see no reason 
 why anybody’s freedoms should be impacted by such moderation, only the 
 benefits that come from a more efficient filter on the list mail than 
 would be achievable otherwise by individual members, especially when the 
 only tools available to them are on their devices.
 
 So, as I said previously, I regard this as a matter of administration, not 
 ethics.  Having a moderator around is simply important for damage 
 control—nothing more.
 
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Keystroke: A cross-platform typing program.

[Tyler Thompson]

Hello,

I’m aware that there are many people looking for an accessible typing 
program for the mac. I’m proud to say that today the agency I work for (The New 
Mexico Commission For The Blind) has released a cross-platform typing program 
called Keystroke. You can download it from our website here 
. It is in it’s early stages but has 
some promising results and as the developer I’d be willing to listen to any 
feature requests you all might have. Most importantly this software is now and 
always will be 100% free. I’ll outline some of it’s features below.


Keystroke works with various braille displays, making it one of the first 
typing programs that can be used with the deaf-blind (or non-native english 
speakers).
Default lessons that were built based on a lot of in-class research to give the 
best chance of learning to type correctly.
The ability to use the correct (left/right) shift keys.
Along with this Keystroke has the ability to make sure that students are using 
the caps lock key correct (thus eliminating the caps + letter + caps syndrome)
Completely customizable lessons (so you can add, or edit your own lessons to 
your hearts desire).
Along with this comes the “Lesson calculator” which is designed to give you 
feedback on your custom lessons, how complex they are, how long it’ll take a 
student to type them etc..)
The ability to import/export lessons. So if you create lessons you’d like to 
share or someone else has made some you think are cool it’s very easy to open 
them and use them with Keystroke.
Because of it’s compatibility with braille displays it can be used to test 
Braille writing speeds.
It learns from you as you type and gives useful feedback via the “Keyboard 
Assistant” (This can even provide directional feedback such as: “The j key is 2 
keys to the right”)
Designed to work natively with VoiceOver


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Re: adding segWays and storyboard entry points using VoiceOver

[Barry Hadder]

The most obvious thing to check first is if there is a viewController set as 
the entry point.
Sometimes the IOS simulator is flaky with Voiceover.  Try command-tabbing away 
and back to the simulator window.  Also, it initially takes a long time for an 
app to launch in it.  Yo might also try resetting it if you keep having 
problems like this.  

Incase you don’t know this, When you combine view controllers like you are 
doing you have to make sure the hierarchy is correct and it is usually easier 
to start from scratch.  You have to go through some steps.
First disconnect the view controllers from the tabBarController and then imbed 
the viewController in a navigation controller.  After that, you can connect the 
controllers to the tabBarController in the order you want, but connect the 
navigation controller and not the root viewController.  The tabbarController 
needs to wrap the navigationController and not the other way around.

Starting from scratch, you could first add the viewControllers to the 
storyboard, embed a viewController in a navigationController, and then, select 
the navigationController and the other viewControllers that aren’t imbedded and 
imbed them in a tabBarController.

On Aug 26, 2015, at 2:38 AM, venky...@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,
I am trying to create an app with multiple views. For this, I used the tabbed 
application template. My intention is to use a navigation bar to display the 
title in the first viewController. To do this, I embedded the first 
ViewController in a navigation control and set the title of the navigation 
item. When I run the app, VoiceOver does not speak anything on the screen. This 
includes the title, the buttons on the tab bar, etc. What am I doing wrong here?
Thank you.
Regards,
Venkatesh

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 12, 2015, at 4:06 PM, Yuma Decaux mailto:jamy...@gmail.com>> wrote:

> Hi Alex,
> 
> There’s a particular process to adding tabs to tabbars. heres the process:
> 1-first create all your view controllers with the names of the tabs you want, 
> as sub classes of UIViewController
> 2-open the default view controller.swift and make the view controller an 
> instance of UITabBarController like follows
> class viewController: UITabBarController {}
>> 3-In mainstoryboard’s document outline, select the default view controller, 
>> and delete it
> 4-drag the UITabBarController from the library to the document outline. On 
> this one, don’t drag and drop in the document outline but on the scroll area 
> of mainstorybard. Doing it this way will work everytime while trying to put 
> it in the outline will give you no result
> 5-The UITabBarController contains 2 view controllers by default. Change the 
> UITabBarController as root view controller in the attributes inspector by 
> checking root view
> 6-back in the document outline, expand the views called (item 1 and item2), 
> select the tab, go to atrributes inspector and change its name to whatever 
> your view controller is for reading purposes.
> 7-still in the document outline, find either view controller whose names you 
> changed and go to identity inspector, and change the base class to your 
> custom viewcontroller class
> 8-If you want to add more tabs, drag a new view controller into the outline 
> and make sure that you are placing it on the root view controller to create 
> the relationship between root and sub view controller or tab.
> 9-You can alternatively look for connections in the connections inspector of 
> the main controller and look for something like cconnect subview or something 
> like that. the process is the same, shift vo command space, go to outline, 
> find the sub view controller, and release.
> 
> Hope this helps 
> 
>>  12/08/2015, at 6:09 AM, Alex Hall > > wrote:
>> 
>> I'm watching this thread, as segues are one thing I've never managed to get 
>> working. Is this Xcode 6.x or 7?
>> 
>> On a related note, has anyone worked out how to add tabs to tab bars, or 
>> views to grids, and so on? No matter what I try, I can't get new tabs onto a 
>> tab bar in N iOS app.
>>> On Aug 11, 2015, at 10:59 AM, Barry Hadder >> > wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Venkatesh,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> First select the view controller to segue to.
>>> 
>>> Then from the inspector, drag from the presenting segue that you want, I.e. 
>>> show segue to the button in the outline.  
>>> 
>>> When you unlock the mouse button on the button in the outline, wait until 
>>> you hear vo say Xcode has new window.
>>> 
>>> Vo-f2 twice to bring up the windows list and choose the one that says 
>>> action or something like that.
>>> 
>>> Next, rout the mouse to vo and click.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> So, instead of dragging from the source to the destination, you want to 
>>> drag from the dest to the source.  By doing that you are giving Xcode more 
>>> information about what you are trying to do and usually you won’t have to 
>>> respond to one of those boxes that pop up exc

Re: Office 2016?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

OK, so I just called Microsoft for you to ask about this, as I was actually 
curious myself.


So, here's the deal.  Office 2016 for the mac is available, yes, not even as 
the public preview.  It's out, but! hold on!  there is a little small catch. 
It is out, yes, but right now, it's only available to Office 365 
subscribers.  Not to official non-365 subscribers who just want it as is, 
full fledged.  However, on the plus side of this, it is apparently supposed 
to be fully released without the need for Office 365 come next month.


Once this is done, they will also then be releasing Office 2016 for Windows 
for both 365 members as well as non-365 full fledged users.


Please realize that none of what I am saying here breaks any NDA.  I'm 
telling you exactly what I was directly told by a Microsoft sales agent 
named Hermon.


If you want to get either of the versions out now of Microsoft Office for a 
mac, or a Windows PC, then here's what you need to do.


First off, be sure you're subscribed to Office 365.  You can do this through

http://www.office.com

Once you have done this, go back to the above link, and sign in with your 
Microsoft passport.


Once in, click on the link for my account.

I think a more direct link actually is:

http://account.office.com

It might be

http://myaccount.office.com

It's one of the two, I just don't recall which.

Once you're at this page and logged in, you  should see a section for 
installation.  If you look under here, you'll see the option to download 
either of these installers, for the mac, or for a PC.  Pick the one you 
want, download it, and install it by running the installer.  Then, make sure 
during the installer that you sign in with your Microsoft passport if asked 
to do so.  It's been a while since I've needed to install, so I don't recall 
exactly what that process is, but I know it's very very straight forward.


Once done, you're good to go.

As for the accessibility, I've not used it in a while, but I did try one of 
the older public previews, and for what it was worth, yes, there were some 
major issues, but for the most part, unless you were doing really really 
really heavy editting, it worked quite well.  Even MS Word finally has been 
fixed where now you can read the document window.  Remember that this was 
quite a few preview builds back though, so I'd honestly give it a shot.  I 
think you'll be at least somewhat, if not very impressed.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Joe Quinn" 

To: "mac list" 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 12:12 PM
Subject: Office 2016?



Is ms office 2016 for the mac out yet? If so is it accessible?

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Re: CereProc

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Isn't there a swedish voice in the Nuance set of voices which can be 
downloaded to OSX?


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Anders Holmberg" 

To: "'Eleanor Roberts' via MacVisionaries" 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 11:15 AM
Subject: Re: CereProc


Hi!
I was going to try it out but they didn’t have a swedish voice so i gave up.
But i asked them to create a swedish voice.
And actually i got a positive answer.
Maybe i should try it out again.
/A

27 aug. 2015 kl. 16:37 skrev Sabahattin Gucukoglu :

Hi all,

I just checked out CereProc again, and unless my ears deceive me, there 
does seem to be a substantial improvement since I last visited some years 
back.


Is anybody now using CereProc voices in production under VoiceOver, and 
how do they find it?  These voices are expensive—£25 a pop—so I want to be 
sure I’m not going to be surprised by the quality of the software.


Cheers,
Sabahattin

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Re: audible books on the Mac

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Yes.  That's correct.  You could either do it that way, by hitting Command+O 
on it from your Finder, or you could simply go into ITunes, hit command+O, 
and then browse for it.  It probably would be easier though to just do the 
former, as that would be one less step you'd have to worry about.


Chris.

- Original Message - 
From: "Faisal ali" 

To: 
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2015 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: audible books on the Mac


so just to clarify, I import the book into iTunes after its done 
downloading? I don’t have safari automatically open files after downloading 
so I would need to take the intermediary step of importing. How exactly is 
the best way of importing said book into iTunes? Do  I simply open the file 
and that will initiate the import process?


On Aug 27, 2015, at 2:55 AM, Christopher-Mark Gilland 
 wrote:


Andrew,

What the other list member is trying to say, if I'm correctly 
understanding them is, yes, deauthorize is there, just not authorize.  If 
you want to deauthorize, then yes.  You go to the Store menu.  However if 
you are trying to authorize in the first place, you need to first import a 
book, then you should be prompted to enter your Audible login credentials. 
Does that make a little more sense?


Chris.

- Original Message - From: "Andrew Lamanche" 
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2015 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: audible books on the Mac


Sorry, I run the latest iTunes and I still have "deauthorise" audible 
account" under the store menu item so I assumed there would have been its 
opposite, .e. "authorise audible account'.  Didn't mean to mislead.


Andrew

On 26 Aug 2015, at 16:59, Faisal ali  wrote:

Hi there Andrew,
This is no longer the way its done since iTunes 12.2. According to the 
help page I read, the only way to authorize is by downloading a book. If 
you look in the store menu in iTunes, they only thing pertinent to 
audible is reauthorize audible account, not authorize.



On Aug 26, 2015, at 11:26 AM, Andrew Lamanche  wrote:

Hello,

Open Itunes and go to the "store" menu item and arrow down to the item 
authorise this computer for audible account or something very similar. 
This will allow you to authorise your computer to play audible books via 
ituens.  remember to deauthorise your computer with Audible should you 
have to change your computers or wipe it clean because Audible only 
allows a number of devices to play their content.


Andrew

On 26 Aug 2015, at 14:58, Faisal ali  wrote:

Hi all,
Recently, I’ve subscribed to audible and I wish to be able to read such 
books on my mac. As I understand, this can be done in iTunes but one 
needs to authorize one’s computer to be able to make this happen. 
Firstly, is there anyone on this list who read audible books on their 
macs? Secondly, how accessible was the authorization process? Based on 
what I read, one needs to download a book and once the book finishes 
downloading, the computer will prompt for a audible username and 
password to authorize the machine.

Thanks much.

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T

Re: Numbers Cel Formatting Question

[Andrew Lamanche]

If you stop interacting with the sheet layout area, to the left of it is the 
formatter area.  Interact with it, and you have a number of tabs yo you can 
vo+space on and then adjust various attributes.  Maybe you could find a way of 
displaying your numbers as you wish there.

Andrew
> On 27 Aug 2015, at 16:51, Emilio Hernandez  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I am trying to change cell attributes, specifically, the digit count in a 
> cell.
> When inserting a numbers with zeros at the beginning, they are not displayed, 
> but the remaining 4-digits out of the 6-digit number is visible.
> How do I change this feature?
> 
> I do not see anything within the cell format area of the inspector pain.
> I changed the series of cells to reflect numbers, but this has not helped.
> 
> Thanks for any help anyone can provide.
> 
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Re: Keystroke: A cross-platform typing program.

[Dionipher Presas Herrera]

hello is this your site? http://www.assistiveware.com/product/keystrokes 

but this is not free but there are free trial version.
> On 27 Aug 2015, at 9:27 PM, Tyler Thompson  wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
>   I’m aware that there are many people looking for an accessible typing 
> program for the mac. I’m proud to say that today the agency I work for (The 
> New Mexico Commission For The Blind) has released a cross-platform typing 
> program called Keystroke. You can download it from our website here 
> . It is in it’s early stages but 
> has some promising results and as the developer I’d be willing to listen to 
> any feature requests you all might have. Most importantly this software is 
> now and always will be 100% free. I’ll outline some of it’s features below.
> 
> 
> Keystroke works with various braille displays, making it one of the first 
> typing programs that can be used with the deaf-blind (or non-native english 
> speakers).
> Default lessons that were built based on a lot of in-class research to give 
> the best chance of learning to type correctly.
> The ability to use the correct (left/right) shift keys.
> Along with this Keystroke has the ability to make sure that students are 
> using the caps lock key correct (thus eliminating the caps + letter + caps 
> syndrome)
> Completely customizable lessons (so you can add, or edit your own lessons to 
> your hearts desire).
> Along with this comes the “Lesson calculator” which is designed to give you 
> feedback on your custom lessons, how complex they are, how long it’ll take a 
> student to type them etc..)
> The ability to import/export lessons. So if you create lessons you’d like to 
> share or someone else has made some you think are cool it’s very easy to open 
> them and use them with Keystroke.
> Because of it’s compatibility with braille displays it can be used to test 
> Braille writing speeds.
> It learns from you as you type and gives useful feedback via the “Keyboard 
> Assistant” (This can even provide directional feedback such as: “The j key is 
> 2 keys to the right”)
> Designed to work natively with VoiceOver
> 
> 
> 
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Re: Keystroke: A cross-platform typing program.

[Tyler Thompson]

No, Mine is a state website http://www.cfb.state.nm.us/Keystroke.html 
 and it is 100%, no trials.
> On Aug 27, 2015, at 14:02, Dionipher Presas Herrera  
> wrote:
> 
> hello is this your site? http://www.assistiveware.com/product/keystrokes 
> 
> but this is not free but there are free trial version.
>> On 27 Aug 2015, at 9:27 PM, Tyler Thompson > > wrote:
>> 
>> Hello,
>> 
>>  I’m aware that there are many people looking for an accessible typing 
>> program for the mac. I’m proud to say that today the agency I work for (The 
>> New Mexico Commission For The Blind) has released a cross-platform typing 
>> program called Keystroke. You can download it from our website here 
>> . It is in it’s early stages but 
>> has some promising results and as the developer I’d be willing to listen to 
>> any feature requests you all might have. Most importantly this software is 
>> now and always will be 100% free. I’ll outline some of it’s features below.
>> 
>> 
>> Keystroke works with various braille displays, making it one of the first 
>> typing programs that can be used with the deaf-blind (or non-native english 
>> speakers).
>> Default lessons that were built based on a lot of in-class research to give 
>> the best chance of learning to type correctly.
>> The ability to use the correct (left/right) shift keys.
>> Along with this Keystroke has the ability to make sure that students are 
>> using the caps lock key correct (thus eliminating the caps + letter + caps 
>> syndrome)
>> Completely customizable lessons (so you can add, or edit your own lessons to 
>> your hearts desire).
>> Along with this comes the “Lesson calculator” which is designed to give you 
>> feedback on your custom lessons, how complex they are, how long it’ll take a 
>> student to type them etc..)
>> The ability to import/export lessons. So if you create lessons you’d like to 
>> share or someone else has made some you think are cool it’s very easy to 
>> open them and use them with Keystroke.
>> Because of it’s compatibility with braille displays it can be used to test 
>> Braille writing speeds.
>> It learns from you as you type and gives useful feedback via the “Keyboard 
>> Assistant” (This can even provide directional feedback such as: “The j key 
>> is 2 keys to the right”)
>> Designed to work natively with VoiceOver
>> 
>> 
>> 
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>> "MacVisionaries" group.
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>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com 
>> .
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>> .
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>> .
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>> .
> 
> 
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