Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi, I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. I found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window Eyes first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you could do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but the issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode which I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have to exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with VoiceOver you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate commands. That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's still an extra keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to exit it one way or the other. Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much effort. I can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll just use the right shift key. You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different operating system. I can't stress that enough. Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on the Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you know you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased solutions and just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that because that worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an insult to any new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to understand why people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the operating system or the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, since it's mostly people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, at least, people who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open to the idea of using a Mac. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > Mary, > > What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading may not be as > simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still exists, even if you > have to hold some additional keys down. In the end you use what works best > for you. YOu say browsing using IE on windows is more efficient for you and > that is great, but for me I have found ways of becoming very efficient using > VO and Safari. In fact I prefer in nearly all cases now, using VO and Safari. > There was a time I may have agreed with you, but as I really became > comfortable with VO and the entire Mac experience, I really have no use for > windows or windows-based screen readers. Well the only reason I use windows > personally is for some courses I am taking that use news groups and so far > outlook express is the only choice I have found thus far and since most the > materials have to be produced using Word, I have to drag that out. Otherwise, > I honestly do find the Mac works well for me. Again, you use what works for > you because being efficient and productive is most important. > On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > >> Hi Scott, >> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences >> between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and >> Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h >> by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among >> headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have >> amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It >> gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the >> page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a >> long shot. Are there other benefits, such as not having to go in and out of >> forms mode? for sure. The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow >> Leopard is one of the main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really >> appreciate the numpad commander, although learning it was not as intuitive >> as learning mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as >> efficient for me as having that array of single letter keystrokes that let >> me move among various web elements at will. Another thing I hope can be >> implemented in the future is a means of letting focus return to where it was >> when you return back to a previously visited page. That's a big time saver >> with the Windows screen readers, although it doesn't always work. Its >> nonexistent with vo. I li
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Ya know, i must be stupid or somesuch, but i never got the hang of the hole webspot jazz. I just use arrows to navigate around. Ok it's slow going but it works. I find webspots to place me either to far above or below things i want to go to and so i have to sift through things to get there anyway and so i sift through the hole page. Also, i have found, and i don't know if i'm the only one, that vo+arrow keys treats web pages as different objects when highlighted, so i can only select one line/paragraph at a time and then VO acts as if i had reached the end of a group. I only use groups mode. (I figured if i should use new things, it's best to use the new things all the time, lol.) /Krister 11 feb 2010 kl. 15.46 skrev Ricardo Walker: > Hi Chris, > > Yup. I use Safari way more than I do I.E. now a days. I honestly couldn't > stand the internet on my Mac with Leopard. But once Snow Leopard came out at > the end of August, it changed the game for me. The rotor function along with > the web spots really help things to move a long for me as far as navigating > the web. Even the navigation with the arrows... when it decides to work) has > made Safari on the Mac with voiceover a more enjoyable experience. It all > depends on the situation too. I like using the internet on my Mac when > working with sighted people. it is just a more seamless transition in my > opinion especially if one has a track pad. But if I just want to gobble up a > large chunk of info really quick I still think jaws and windows has an > advantage. . > On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I was VP of Software Engineering at FS when we invented a lot of what is now >> the common user interface on Windows screen readers. I am proud of the work >> we did as we certainly moved the art forward. >> >> Now, I use Macintosh with Safari. The Windows way of doing things tried to >> emulate a word processor or some other similar text manipulation application >> with which a user would already be familiar. This is good in the sense that >> the learning curve is not too steep but leaves out all of the contextual >> information a sighted user would have resulting from the juxtaposition of >> objects in the page's layout. >> >> I use both DOM and Groups mode with Safari depending upon the site. A >> relatively linear site works best with DOM mode as it likes to function in a >> straight line. Busier sites, however, seem to prefer Groups mode as one can >> move from big chunk to big chunk rapidly while also learning where objects >> are in the layout and, by knowing what's near what, you can learn to >> navigate some sites really quickly and without a lot of caca in between >> items of value. >> >> The trackpad commander is awesome for web browsing but you need either a >> MacBook or MacBook Pro to enjoy this. A friend over at Serotek told me about >> a multi-touch trackpad that works both in Windows 7 and Snow Leopard that >> you can add onto other models but I haven't seen it in action. >> >> So, give Safari and the VoiceOver features a bit longer, use the rotor, the >> item chooser and learn the keystrokes that make web browsing easier and I >> think you will start to enjoy it more. >> >> Of course, JAWS introduced the original virtual buffer system for web >> browsing back in 1998 and has a lot of time for refinements. It is good but, >> especially regarding contextual information, is starting to fall behind >> newer and more forward looking ideas popping up around the AT world. >> >> cdh >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I've been a Mac user for almost 2 years, and I personally don't find the >>> web browsing experience on my Mac using Safari with voiceover to be on par >>> with that of internet explorer and Jaws. For example, Look at the steps >>> you explained to highlight and copy text "If you interact with text, use >>> VO-shift-return, you can initiate marking of text and use VO-cursor keys to >>> navigate and mark that text, then use VO-shift-return to stop marking the >>> text. FInally command-c will copy that text for you to paste where you >>> choose. You can also interact with text and use command-a to highlight all >>> text you can then copy..." On I.E. you would just use shift and the arrows >>> or some function of navigation commonly used throughout the Operating >>> system. In Snow Leopard one should be able to use the arrows by them >>> selves to navigate a web page and with shift to select. This is not the >>> case most of the time. The folks didn't include this functionality into >>> snow leopard by accident or just to appease windows converts in my opinion. >>> They realized that the previous method was just a pain, not to mention >>> labor intensive in regards to the task actually trying to be accomplished. >>> I use Dom mode and sometimes voiceover indeed skips over chun
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi, i don't understand. web spots are something you set yourself. When your on the position you want to set as a web spot press control, option, command, shift, and right bracket. Auto web spots are the things that show up in the rotor. You can go through these without opening the rotor by pressing control option command N. hth On Feb 12, 2010, at 5:11 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > Ya know, i must be stupid or somesuch, but i never got the hang of the hole > webspot jazz. I just use arrows to navigate around. Ok it's slow going but it > works. I find webspots to place me either to far above or below things i want > to go to and so i have to sift through things to get there anyway and so i > sift through the hole page. Also, i have found, and i don't know if i'm the > only one, that vo+arrow keys treats web pages as different objects when > highlighted, so i can only select one line/paragraph at a time and then VO > acts as if i had reached the end of a group. I only use groups mode. (I > figured if i should use new things, it's best to use the new things all the > time, lol.) > /Krister > > > 11 feb 2010 kl. 15.46 skrev Ricardo Walker: > >> Hi Chris, >> >> Yup. I use Safari way more than I do I.E. now a days. I honestly couldn't >> stand the internet on my Mac with Leopard. But once Snow Leopard came out >> at the end of August, it changed the game for me. The rotor function along >> with the web spots really help things to move a long for me as far as >> navigating the web. Even the navigation with the arrows... when it decides >> to work) has made Safari on the Mac with voiceover a more enjoyable >> experience. It all depends on the situation too. I like using the internet >> on my Mac when working with sighted people. it is just a more seamless >> transition in my opinion especially if one has a track pad. But if I just >> want to gobble up a large chunk of info really quick I still think jaws and >> windows has an advantage. . >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I was VP of Software Engineering at FS when we invented a lot of what is >>> now the common user interface on Windows screen readers. I am proud of the >>> work we did as we certainly moved the art forward. >>> >>> Now, I use Macintosh with Safari. The Windows way of doing things tried to >>> emulate a word processor or some other similar text manipulation >>> application with which a user would already be familiar. This is good in >>> the sense that the learning curve is not too steep but leaves out all of >>> the contextual information a sighted user would have resulting from the >>> juxtaposition of objects in the page's layout. >>> >>> I use both DOM and Groups mode with Safari depending upon the site. A >>> relatively linear site works best with DOM mode as it likes to function in >>> a straight line. Busier sites, however, seem to prefer Groups mode as one >>> can move from big chunk to big chunk rapidly while also learning where >>> objects are in the layout and, by knowing what's near what, you can learn >>> to navigate some sites really quickly and without a lot of caca in between >>> items of value. >>> >>> The trackpad commander is awesome for web browsing but you need either a >>> MacBook or MacBook Pro to enjoy this. A friend over at Serotek told me >>> about a multi-touch trackpad that works both in Windows 7 and Snow Leopard >>> that you can add onto other models but I haven't seen it in action. >>> >>> So, give Safari and the VoiceOver features a bit longer, use the rotor, the >>> item chooser and learn the keystrokes that make web browsing easier and I >>> think you will start to enjoy it more. >>> >>> Of course, JAWS introduced the original virtual buffer system for web >>> browsing back in 1998 and has a lot of time for refinements. It is good >>> but, especially regarding contextual information, is starting to fall >>> behind newer and more forward looking ideas popping up around the AT world. >>> >>> cdh >>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: >>> Hello, I've been a Mac user for almost 2 years, and I personally don't find the web browsing experience on my Mac using Safari with voiceover to be on par with that of internet explorer and Jaws. For example, Look at the steps you explained to highlight and copy text "If you interact with text, use VO-shift-return, you can initiate marking of text and use VO-cursor keys to navigate and mark that text, then use VO-shift-return to stop marking the text. FInally command-c will copy that text for you to paste where you choose. You can also interact with text and use command-a to highlight all text you can then copy..." On I.E. you would just use shift and the arrows or some function of navigation commonly used throughout the Operating system. In Snow Leopard one should be ab
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
I started my current Mac experience by borrowing a Mac Mini from a vendor who sold assistive technology for Windows. I wanted to prove that what they said about the mac was wrong, that they couldn't use it effectively as blind folks. I dumped my old pc and started use the Mac full time from the beginning and i haven't looked back since. True i have a virtual machine but that's mostly for playing audio games that are not available on the Mac yet. I do not miss the single key keystrokes much and i'm so glad i got rid of that virtual buffer and all the other ways windows screen reading software spoon feeds us. /Krister 12 feb 2010 kl. 09.13 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: > Hi, > > I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. I > found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window Eyes > first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you could > do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to > efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among > others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is > probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but the > issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode which > I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have to > exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with VoiceOver > you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate commands. > That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's still an extra > keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to exit it one way > or the other. > > Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much effort. I > can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll just use the > right shift key. > > You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality > existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different > operating system. I can't stress that enough. > > Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on the > Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you know > you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in > navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased solutions and > just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that because that > worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an insult to any > new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to understand why > people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the operating system or > the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, since it's mostly > people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, at least, people > who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open to the idea of using > a Mac. > > Regards, > Nic > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > >> Mary, >> >> What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading may not be >> as simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still exists, even if >> you have to hold some additional keys down. In the end you use what works >> best for you. YOu say browsing using IE on windows is more efficient for you >> and that is great, but for me I have found ways of becoming very efficient >> using VO and Safari. In fact I prefer in nearly all cases now, using VO and >> Safari. There was a time I may have agreed with you, but as I really became >> comfortable with VO and the entire Mac experience, I really have no use for >> windows or windows-based screen readers. Well the only reason I use windows >> personally is for some courses I am taking that use news groups and so far >> outlook express is the only choice I have found thus far and since most the >> materials have to be produced using Word, I have to drag that out. >> Otherwise, I honestly do find the Mac works well for me. Again, you use what >> works for you because being efficient and productive is most important. >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >> >>> Hi Scott, >>> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences >>> between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and >>> Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h >>> by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among >>> headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have >>> amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It >>> gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the >>> page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Ah, let me assure you I take nothing personally because as I have said, whatever works for you is all that matters. My point to you is simply that the functionality does exist and you may have more keys to work with. We both agree nothing is perfect and to be honest I think there is one other aspect I failed to bring into the discussion and that is how you browse the web. I have to admit that I don't generally use the rotor. The reason is I use the Quicknav feature and groups mode. So, how I interact with a site will be different perhaps than you. So, to circle back around, my point of replying to the initial message is to state that becoming more familiar with those functions of VO and how to work with Safari will show that a lot of the functionality is there and the difference is going to be for one thing in the difference in commands. The one thing that does make VO different from JAWS or WE is the fact that the commands although seemingly more complex, do not interfere with the key commands of the OS. So, if you have a need to share your machine with a sighted person, you would not have to turn VO off. This of course means a more complex command set, but now with Quicknav, it does make things much easier. Of course now i'll have to play more with the rotor and see how that affects my browsing experience. I have to admit that once you are comfortable with a certain way of performing a task, it is hard to change, but then again, change is not always a bad thing. :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
I would also point out that if you use the Web Spot feature, it is quite accurate indeed. I have a sweet spot set for a number of locations on the banking website I use and it surely is the greatest thing for making navigation of a site efficient. I have it setup so as soon as the page loads, I'm on the location to enter my login info. Once I'm logged in, I am immediately on the list of accounts and on the balance information. If folks have not really explored the possibilities of Web/sweet spots, do yourself a favor and give them a try, they are very useful. On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: > Hello, > > If I may, I would like to point out that all navigation through elements on a > web page can be done with one hand and you don't need to remember a lot of > keys. When in dom. mode, press the left and right arrows at the same time to > enter quick nav mode. Now, press the left-up or right-up to cycle through > the navigation items in the roter. Then, navigate through the chosen element > with the up or down keys. > > As far as returning to the prior place in a web page, I have not found it to > be non existent. There are many times that it works, although, I would like > to see it work more consistently. I haven't found any screen reader do it > very well. > > I would also like to say that I never found any of the vo key strokes to be > difficult and I never understood why some people seemed to have such a > hang-up with them. There are some circumstances where one might need to > perform a task with only one hand, and I think that it was some what of a > legitimate concern earlier on. As I pointed out however, that issue has been > addressed with quick nav. > > > On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > >> Hi Scott, >> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences >> between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and >> Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h >> by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among >> headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have >> amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It >> gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the >> page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a >> long shot. Are there other benefits, such as not having to go in and out of >> forms mode? for sure. The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow >> Leopard is one of the main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really >> appreciate the numpad commander, although learning it was not as intuitive >> as learning mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as >> efficient for me as having that array of single letter keystrokes that let >> me move among various web elements at will. Another thing I hope can be >> implemented in the future is a means of letting focus return to where it was >> when you return back to a previously visited page. That's a big time saver >> with the Windows screen readers, although it doesn't always work. Its >> nonexistent with vo. I like the fact that pages seem to load faster with >> Safari than they do with IE and a screen reader. Over all, for me, the >> Windows experience is still more efficient. But there are pluses with the >> Mac, and I'm hoping it will keep improving. Group mode is something I have >> tried and dropped. I just never found a page where it seemed to offer any >> advantage, since I don't really care how the page is laid out. I want info >> and where it is on the page just doesn't seem very important to me, so long >> as I can get to it efficiently. Maybe I don't go to the right sites where >> group mode's benefits are displayed to best advantage. >> >> Mary >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/gr
Re: Word Processing
Hi, On 10 Feb., 12:58, Les Kriegler wrote: > I purchased iWork 09 for around $60 and am happy with its functionality. That sounds promising. I did some basic testing but for example couldn't figure out how to create and read tables. Can you recommend some documentation on iWork accessibility? Best regards, Felix Grützmacher -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
deleting an app from an iphone using vo
How does one delete an unwanted app from iPhone with vo running? On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > I started my current Mac experience by borrowing a Mac Mini from a vendor > who sold assistive technology for Windows. I wanted to prove that what they > said about the mac was wrong, that they couldn't use it effectively as blind > folks. I dumped my old pc and started use the Mac full time from the > beginning and i haven't looked back since. True i have a virtual machine but > that's mostly for playing audio games that are not available on the Mac yet. > I do not miss the single key keystrokes much and i'm so glad i got rid of > that virtual buffer and all the other ways windows screen reading software > spoon feeds us. > /Krister > 12 feb 2010 kl. 09.13 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: > > > Hi, > > > > I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. > I found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window > Eyes first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you > could do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to > efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among > others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is > probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but > the issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode > which I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have > to exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with > VoiceOver you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate > commands. That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's > still an extra keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to > exit it one way or the other. > > > > Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much > effort. I can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll > just use the right shift key. > > > > You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality > existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different > operating system. I can't stress that enough. > > > > Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on > the Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you > know you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in > navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased solutions and > just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that because that > worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an insult to any > new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to understand why > people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the operating system or > the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, since it's mostly > people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, at least, people > who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open to the idea of > using a Mac. > > > > Regards, > > Nic > > Skype: Kvalme > > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > > AIM: cincinster > > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > > Facebook Profile > > My Twitter > > > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > > > >> Mary, > >> > >> What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading may not > be as simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still exists, even if > you have to hold some additional keys down. In the end you use what works > best for you. YOu say browsing using IE on windows is more efficient for you > and that is great, but for me I have found ways of becoming very efficient > using VO and Safari. In fact I prefer in nearly all cases now, using VO and > Safari. There was a time I may have agreed with you, but as I really became > comfortable with VO and the entire Mac experience, I really have no use for > windows or windows-based screen readers. Well the only reason I use windows > personally is for some courses I am taking that use news groups and so far > outlook express is the only choice I have found thus far and since most the > materials have to be produced using Word, I have to drag that out. > Otherwise, I honestly do find the Mac works well for me. Again, you use what > works for you because being efficient and productive is most important. > >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > >> > >>> Hi Scott, > >>> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the > differences between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes > or Jaws and Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between > pressing h by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move > among headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have > amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It > gets even more interesting when you ad
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi, I use web spots, but always auto web spots. I never set my own. And that's because The VoiceOver is always right. It's outsmarted me on many occasions. That may not be very hard to do, but VoiceOver is doing a fantastic job of it. Oh, and I sometimes use the "sweet spot". At first, I thought it sounded dirtier than it really is when it was first introduced. But I like it. It's a pretty sweet feature, and it's very efficient. What else? Oh, right. Bug with proper selection by words, characters or lines has to be fixed in 10.6.3. Prediction. Wrong? We'll see! Regards, Nic P.S: I've had too much coffee for this post. Oh, and has anyone noticed that, if you write the word "do", Alex says "to"? Do not let yourselves be fooled. It's actually D O, but it only applies at the beginning of a sentence or on its own.. Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Feb 12, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > Ya know, i must be stupid or somesuch, but i never got the hang of the hole > webspot jazz. I just use arrows to navigate around. Ok it's slow going but it > works. I find webspots to place me either to far above or below things i want > to go to and so i have to sift through things to get there anyway and so i > sift through the hole page. Also, i have found, and i don't know if i'm the > only one, that vo+arrow keys treats web pages as different objects when > highlighted, so i can only select one line/paragraph at a time and then VO > acts as if i had reached the end of a group. I only use groups mode. (I > figured if i should use new things, it's best to use the new things all the > time, lol.) > /Krister > > > 11 feb 2010 kl. 15.46 skrev Ricardo Walker: > >> Hi Chris, >> >> Yup. I use Safari way more than I do I.E. now a days. I honestly couldn't >> stand the internet on my Mac with Leopard. But once Snow Leopard came out >> at the end of August, it changed the game for me. The rotor function along >> with the web spots really help things to move a long for me as far as >> navigating the web. Even the navigation with the arrows... when it decides >> to work) has made Safari on the Mac with voiceover a more enjoyable >> experience. It all depends on the situation too. I like using the internet >> on my Mac when working with sighted people. it is just a more seamless >> transition in my opinion especially if one has a track pad. But if I just >> want to gobble up a large chunk of info really quick I still think jaws and >> windows has an advantage. . >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I was VP of Software Engineering at FS when we invented a lot of what is >>> now the common user interface on Windows screen readers. I am proud of the >>> work we did as we certainly moved the art forward. >>> >>> Now, I use Macintosh with Safari. The Windows way of doing things tried to >>> emulate a word processor or some other similar text manipulation >>> application with which a user would already be familiar. This is good in >>> the sense that the learning curve is not too steep but leaves out all of >>> the contextual information a sighted user would have resulting from the >>> juxtaposition of objects in the page's layout. >>> >>> I use both DOM and Groups mode with Safari depending upon the site. A >>> relatively linear site works best with DOM mode as it likes to function in >>> a straight line. Busier sites, however, seem to prefer Groups mode as one >>> can move from big chunk to big chunk rapidly while also learning where >>> objects are in the layout and, by knowing what's near what, you can learn >>> to navigate some sites really quickly and without a lot of caca in between >>> items of value. >>> >>> The trackpad commander is awesome for web browsing but you need either a >>> MacBook or MacBook Pro to enjoy this. A friend over at Serotek told me >>> about a multi-touch trackpad that works both in Windows 7 and Snow Leopard >>> that you can add onto other models but I haven't seen it in action. >>> >>> So, give Safari and the VoiceOver features a bit longer, use the rotor, the >>> item chooser and learn the keystrokes that make web browsing easier and I >>> think you will start to enjoy it more. >>> >>> Of course, JAWS introduced the original virtual buffer system for web >>> browsing back in 1998 and has a lot of time for refinements. It is good >>> but, especially regarding contextual information, is starting to fall >>> behind newer and more forward looking ideas popping up around the AT world. >>> >>> cdh >>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: >>> Hello, I've been a Mac user for almost 2 years, and I personally don't find the web browsing experience on my Mac using Safari with voiceover to be on par with that of internet explorer and Jaws. For example, Look a
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
See you learn something new every day, even this old grumpy man. Have to redefine keyboard shortcuts though, i can't use existing ones due to the keyboard layout of a swedish keyboard. This isn't VOs fault though. /Krister 12 feb 2010 kl. 12.00 skrev Scott Howell: > I would also point out that if you use the Web Spot feature, it is quite > accurate indeed. I have a sweet spot set for a number of locations on the > banking website I use and it surely is the greatest thing for making > navigation of a site efficient. I have it setup so as soon as the page loads, > I'm on the location to enter my login info. Once I'm logged in, I am > immediately on the list of accounts and on the balance information. If folks > have not really explored the possibilities of Web/sweet spots, do yourself a > favor and give them a try, they are very useful. > On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> If I may, I would like to point out that all navigation through elements on >> a web page can be done with one hand and you don't need to remember a lot of >> keys. When in dom. mode, press the left and right arrows at the same time >> to enter quick nav mode. Now, press the left-up or right-up to cycle >> through the navigation items in the roter. Then, navigate through the >> chosen element with the up or down keys. >> >> As far as returning to the prior place in a web page, I have not found it to >> be non existent. There are many times that it works, although, I would like >> to see it work more consistently. I haven't found any screen reader do it >> very well. >> >> I would also like to say that I never found any of the vo key strokes to be >> difficult and I never understood why some people seemed to have such a >> hang-up with them. There are some circumstances where one might need to >> perform a task with only one hand, and I think that it was some what of a >> legitimate concern earlier on. As I pointed out however, that issue has >> been addressed with quick nav. >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >> >>> Hi Scott, >>> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences >>> between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and >>> Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h >>> by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among >>> headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have >>> amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It >>> gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the >>> page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a >>> long shot. Are there other benefits, such as not having to go in and out of >>> forms mode? for sure. The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow >>> Leopard is one of the main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really >>> appreciate the numpad commander, although learning it was not as intuitive >>> as learning mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as >>> efficient for me as having that array of single letter keystrokes that let >>> me move among various web elements at will. Another thing I hope can be >>> implemented in the future is a means of letting focus return to where it >>> was when you return back to a previously visited page. That's a big time >>> saver with the Windows screen readers, although it doesn't always work. >>> Its nonexistent with vo. I like the fact that pages seem to load faster >>> with Safari than they do with IE and a screen reader. Over all, for me, the >>> Windows experience is still more efficient. But there are pluses with the >>> Mac, and I'm hoping it will keep improving. Group mode is something I have >>> tried and dropped. I just never found a page where it seemed to offer any >>> advantage, since I don't really care how the page is laid out. I want info >>> and where it is on the page just doesn't seem very important to me, so long >>> as I can get to it efficiently. Maybe I don't go to the right sites where >>> group mode's benefits are displayed to best advantage. >>> >>> Mary >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/
Re: Accessible PDF viewer, was weird pdf document.
Hi carlene, On 12 Feb 2010, at 01:13, carlene knight wrote: > I've got a question about preview, now that you mention it. when I was > trying to read the Vo getting started PDF, I would stop speech with control > and then when I wanted to continue, it would go back to the beginning of the > paragraph I was on. It was very frustrating. How do you get around that? What version of Mac OS X are you running? As Esther mentioned in her post, some aspects depend on what operating system you are using. I've never had that before, but are you going to a different application when you stop speech. This would make VO read from a different position - usually the beginning. VO does not seem to have the ability to retain its place in a PDF yet if you move to a different application. HTH TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny > I've got a question about preview, now that you mention it. when I was > trying to read the Vo getting started PDF, I would stop speech with control > and then when I wanted to continue, it would go back to the beginning of the > paragraph I was on. It was very frustrating. How do you get around that? > On Feb 11, 2010, at 12:51 PM, James & Nash wrote: > >> Hi Carolyn >> On 11 Feb 2010, at 19:43, Carolyn wrote: >>> I'm looking at a "user guide" in a pdf file, on the MacBook Pro. I can't >>> seem to get beyond the first page, or copyright info. I assume this is >>> because I'm using previewer. Would I get further using the Skim program >>> you mentioned here? >> Try pressing page down. That should move you to the next page. >> >> TC >> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny >>> James: >>> I'm looking at a "user guide" in a pdf file, on the MacBook Pro. I can't >>> seem to get beyond the first page, or copyright info. I assume this is >>> because I'm using previewer. Would I get further using the Skim program >>> you mentioned here? >>> TIA >>> >>> Carolyn CH:) >>> - Original Message - >>> From: James & Nash >>> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:12 AM >>> Subject: Re: Accessible PDF viewer, was weird pdf document. >>> >>> Hi, Other than Preview is there a PDF viewer / reader application that is accessible with VoiceOver? >>> >>> >>> Yes there is, it is called Skim and you can get it from SourceForge or: >>> >>> http://www.opensourcemac.org >>> >>> TC >>> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny >>> On 11 Feb 2010, at 12:27, E.J. Zufelt wrote: >>> Good morning, Other than Preview is there a PDF viewer / reader application that is accessible with VoiceOver? Thanks, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-02-11, at 7:23 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: > The PDF author did not use the appropriate table tags in your problem > document. You may be able to do a "select all" and copy and paste the > table into a word processor or spreadsheet which may be able to sort out > the broken table for you. Otherwise, you are SOL - Viva Adobe! > > On Feb 10, 2010, at 10:43 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: > >> Hi Guys, >> >> I've got a list of contacts here in PDF format. It's a sort'a table >> with name, address, phone number and so on. So, no matter how I view >> this table in prevuew, it always gives me all the names first. After >> that it gives me all the addresses. Then it gives me all the phone >> numbers. I've tried going up and down, left and right, with and without >> quick nav, and the order is always the same no matter what. I'm sure it >> doesn't look this way on the screen. It's got to be information across >> the columns and contacts up and down the rows like a deacent table, but >> I can't get it to read that way using preview with voiceover. >> >> Any suggestions would be most appreciated. >> >> Thanks, >> >> erik burggraaf >> A+ certified technician and user support consultant. >> Phone: 888-255-5194 >> Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/
Re: possible voiceover possibilities for office for mac 2011???
Hi Philippe, Which blog was this please? Thanks TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny On 12 Feb 2010, at 05:50, Philippe Brun wrote: > Hi all, > I read on a french Mac blog that MS rewrite Office with Cocoa. So just wait > and see ! > Philippe > Le 12 févr. 2010 à 05:07, E.J. Zufelt a écrit : > >> Good evening Scott, >> >> My speculation is that Microsoft Office 2011 will not be accessible with >> VoiceOver. >> >> I cannot imagine that Office was developed with native Cocoa user interface >> components. As a matter of fact for some user interface components (the >> ribbon) Microsoft would have to create their own custom classes. I cannot >> imagine that Microsoft would have put the time into ensuring that these >> classes were accessible. >> >> I hope to be shown to be wrong. >> >> HTH, >> Everett >> >> Follow me on Twitter >> http://twitter.com/ezufelt >> >> View my LinkedIn Profile >> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt >> >> >> >> On 2010-02-11, at 11:02 PM, Scott Ballard-RidleyScott Ridley wrote: >> >>> hi all >>> >>> I have just read on the mac world website that microsoft has announced >>> the launch of office for mac 2011. Could this be the answer to our >>> prayers by finally being accessible to voiceover users? Does anyone >>> have the inside line on this? >>> >>> Keep your fingers crossed. >>> >>> Scott >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi, I wish I could redefine default keyboard commands. Like VO-Backslash. Impossible to do on a Danish keyboard, as you need Option for backslash. Oh, and I wish my bank site was accessible. It is on Windows for the most part, but VO doesn't like it and the site recommends that I use Safari. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > See you learn something new every day, even this old grumpy man. Have to > redefine keyboard shortcuts though, i can't use existing ones due to the > keyboard layout of a swedish keyboard. This isn't VOs fault though. > /Krister > > > 12 feb 2010 kl. 12.00 skrev Scott Howell: > >> I would also point out that if you use the Web Spot feature, it is quite >> accurate indeed. I have a sweet spot set for a number of locations on the >> banking website I use and it surely is the greatest thing for making >> navigation of a site efficient. I have it setup so as soon as the page >> loads, I'm on the location to enter my login info. Once I'm logged in, I am >> immediately on the list of accounts and on the balance information. If folks >> have not really explored the possibilities of Web/sweet spots, do yourself a >> favor and give them a try, they are very useful. >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> If I may, I would like to point out that all navigation through elements on >>> a web page can be done with one hand and you don't need to remember a lot >>> of keys. When in dom. mode, press the left and right arrows at the same >>> time to enter quick nav mode. Now, press the left-up or right-up to cycle >>> through the navigation items in the roter. Then, navigate through the >>> chosen element with the up or down keys. >>> >>> As far as returning to the prior place in a web page, I have not found it >>> to be non existent. There are many times that it works, although, I would >>> like to see it work more consistently. I haven't found any screen reader >>> do it very well. >>> >>> I would also like to say that I never found any of the vo key strokes to be >>> difficult and I never understood why some people seemed to have such a >>> hang-up with them. There are some circumstances where one might need to >>> perform a task with only one hand, and I think that it was some what of a >>> legitimate concern earlier on. As I pointed out however, that issue has >>> been addressed with quick nav. >>> >>> >>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >>> Hi Scott, I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a long shot. Are there other benefits, such as not having to go in and out of forms mode? for sure. The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow Leopard is one of the main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really appreciate the numpad commander, although learning it was not as intuitive as learning mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as efficient for me as having that array of single letter keystrokes that let me move among various web elements at will. Another thing I hope can be implemented in the future is a means of letting focus return to where it was when you return back to a previously visited page. That's a big time saver with the Windows screen readers, although it doesn't always work. Its nonexistent with vo. I like the fact that pages seem to load faster with Safari than they do with IE and a screen reader. Over all, for me, the Windows experience is still more efficient. But there are pluses with the Mac, and I'm hoping it will keep improving. Group mode is something I have tried and dropped. I just never found a page where it seemed to offer any advantage, since I don't really care how the page is laid out. I want info and where it is on the page just doesn't seem very important to me, so long as I can get to it efficiently. Maybe I don't go to the right sites where group mode's benefits are displayed to best advantage. Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@go
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi, I mean Firefox. Oops. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > Hi, > > I wish I could redefine default keyboard commands. Like VO-Backslash. > Impossible to do on a Danish keyboard, as you need Option for backslash. Oh, > and I wish my bank site was accessible. It is on Windows for the most part, > but VO doesn't like it and the site recommends that I use Safari. > > Regards, > Nic > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > >> See you learn something new every day, even this old grumpy man. Have to >> redefine keyboard shortcuts though, i can't use existing ones due to the >> keyboard layout of a swedish keyboard. This isn't VOs fault though. >> /Krister >> >> >> 12 feb 2010 kl. 12.00 skrev Scott Howell: >> >>> I would also point out that if you use the Web Spot feature, it is quite >>> accurate indeed. I have a sweet spot set for a number of locations on the >>> banking website I use and it surely is the greatest thing for making >>> navigation of a site efficient. I have it setup so as soon as the page >>> loads, I'm on the location to enter my login info. Once I'm logged in, I am >>> immediately on the list of accounts and on the balance information. If >>> folks have not really explored the possibilities of Web/sweet spots, do >>> yourself a favor and give them a try, they are very useful. >>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: >>> Hello, If I may, I would like to point out that all navigation through elements on a web page can be done with one hand and you don't need to remember a lot of keys. When in dom. mode, press the left and right arrows at the same time to enter quick nav mode. Now, press the left-up or right-up to cycle through the navigation items in the roter. Then, navigate through the chosen element with the up or down keys. As far as returning to the prior place in a web page, I have not found it to be non existent. There are many times that it works, although, I would like to see it work more consistently. I haven't found any screen reader do it very well. I would also like to say that I never found any of the vo key strokes to be difficult and I never understood why some people seemed to have such a hang-up with them. There are some circumstances where one might need to perform a task with only one hand, and I think that it was some what of a legitimate concern earlier on. As I pointed out however, that issue has been addressed with quick nav. On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > Hi Scott, > I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the > differences between moving around on a page among elements with Window > Eyes or Jaws and Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference > between pressing h by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to > h to move among headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? > You must have amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing > for decades. It gets even more interesting when you add the shift into > the mix to go up the page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as > pressing one key? Not by a long shot. Are there other benefits, such as > not having to go in and out of forms mode? for sure. The added > functionality for VO on the web in Snow Leopard is one of the main > reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really appreciate the numpad commander, > although learning it was not as intuitive as learning mnemonics on the > regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as efficient for me as having > that array of single letter keystrokes that let me move among various web > elements at will. Another thing I hope can be implemented in the future > is a means of letting focus return to where it was when you return back > to a previously visited page. That's a big time saver with the Windows > screen readers, although it doesn't always work. Its nonexistent with > vo. I like the fact that pages seem to load faster with Safari than they > do with IE and a screen reader. Over all, for me, the Windows experience > is still more efficient. But there are pluses with the Mac, and I'm > hoping it will keep improving. Group mode is something I have tried and > dropped. I just never found a page where it seemed to offer any > advantage, since I don't really care how the page is laid out. I want > info and where it is on the page just doesn't seem very important to me, > so long as I can g
Re: possible voiceover possibilities for office for mac 2011???
Hi James, This article on the french Clubic IT website : http://www.clubic.com/actualite-324878-office-mac-microsoft-2011.html Regardes Philippe Le 12 févr. 2010 à 12:43, James & Nash a écrit : > Hi Philippe, > > Which blog was this please? > > Thanks > TC > James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny > On 12 Feb 2010, at 05:50, Philippe Brun wrote: > >> Hi all, >> I read on a french Mac blog that MS rewrite Office with Cocoa. So just wait >> and see ! >> Philippe >> Le 12 févr. 2010 à 05:07, E.J. Zufelt a écrit : >> >>> Good evening Scott, >>> >>> My speculation is that Microsoft Office 2011 will not be accessible with >>> VoiceOver. >>> >>> I cannot imagine that Office was developed with native Cocoa user interface >>> components. As a matter of fact for some user interface components (the >>> ribbon) Microsoft would have to create their own custom classes. I cannot >>> imagine that Microsoft would have put the time into ensuring that these >>> classes were accessible. >>> >>> I hope to be shown to be wrong. >>> >>> HTH, >>> Everett >>> >>> Follow me on Twitter >>> http://twitter.com/ezufelt >>> >>> View my LinkedIn Profile >>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt >>> >>> >>> >>> On 2010-02-11, at 11:02 PM, Scott Ballard-RidleyScott Ridley wrote: >>> hi all I have just read on the mac world website that microsoft has announced the launch of office for mac 2011. Could this be the answer to our prayers by finally being accessible to voiceover users? Does anyone have the inside line on this? Keep your fingers crossed. Scott -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: possible voiceover possibilities for office for mac 2011???
Hi Philippe, Thanks for this. I'm sure I will enjoy reading it. TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny On 12 Feb 2010, at 11:53, Philippe Brun wrote: > Hi James, > This article on the french Clubic IT website : > http://www.clubic.com/actualite-324878-office-mac-microsoft-2011.html > Regardes > Philippe > Le 12 févr. 2010 à 12:43, James & Nash a écrit : > >> Hi Philippe, >> >> Which blog was this please? >> >> Thanks >> TC >> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny >> On 12 Feb 2010, at 05:50, Philippe Brun wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> I read on a french Mac blog that MS rewrite Office with Cocoa. So just wait >>> and see ! >>> Philippe >>> Le 12 févr. 2010 à 05:07, E.J. Zufelt a écrit : >>> Good evening Scott, My speculation is that Microsoft Office 2011 will not be accessible with VoiceOver. I cannot imagine that Office was developed with native Cocoa user interface components. As a matter of fact for some user interface components (the ribbon) Microsoft would have to create their own custom classes. I cannot imagine that Microsoft would have put the time into ensuring that these classes were accessible. I hope to be shown to be wrong. HTH, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-02-11, at 11:02 PM, Scott Ballard-RidleyScott Ridley wrote: > hi all > > I have just read on the mac world website that microsoft has announced > the launch of office for mac 2011. Could this be the answer to our > prayers by finally being accessible to voiceover users? Does anyone > have the inside line on this? > > Keep your fingers crossed. > > Scott > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi Nic, Have you tried using the "Develop" menu in Safari to try to trick the site into thinking that you are using FireFox? I think you can find the checkbox for this menu under the "Advanced" settings. TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny On 12 Feb 2010, at 11:47, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > Hi, > > I mean Firefox. Oops. > > Regards, > Nic > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I wish I could redefine default keyboard commands. Like VO-Backslash. >> Impossible to do on a Danish keyboard, as you need Option for backslash. Oh, >> and I wish my bank site was accessible. It is on Windows for the most part, >> but VO doesn't like it and the site recommends that I use Safari. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook Profile >> My Twitter >> >> On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >> >>> See you learn something new every day, even this old grumpy man. Have to >>> redefine keyboard shortcuts though, i can't use existing ones due to the >>> keyboard layout of a swedish keyboard. This isn't VOs fault though. >>> /Krister >>> >>> >>> 12 feb 2010 kl. 12.00 skrev Scott Howell: >>> I would also point out that if you use the Web Spot feature, it is quite accurate indeed. I have a sweet spot set for a number of locations on the banking website I use and it surely is the greatest thing for making navigation of a site efficient. I have it setup so as soon as the page loads, I'm on the location to enter my login info. Once I'm logged in, I am immediately on the list of accounts and on the balance information. If folks have not really explored the possibilities of Web/sweet spots, do yourself a favor and give them a try, they are very useful. On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: > Hello, > > If I may, I would like to point out that all navigation through elements > on a web page can be done with one hand and you don't need to remember a > lot of keys. When in dom. mode, press the left and right arrows at the > same time to enter quick nav mode. Now, press the left-up or right-up to > cycle through the navigation items in the roter. Then, navigate through > the chosen element with the up or down keys. > > As far as returning to the prior place in a web page, I have not found it > to be non existent. There are many times that it works, although, I > would like to see it work more consistently. I haven't found any screen > reader do it very well. > > I would also like to say that I never found any of the vo key strokes to > be difficult and I never understood why some people seemed to have such a > hang-up with them. There are some circumstances where one might need to > perform a task with only one hand, and I think that it was some what of a > legitimate concern earlier on. As I pointed out however, that issue has > been addressed with quick nav. > > > On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > >> Hi Scott, >> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the >> differences between moving around on a page among elements with Window >> Eyes or Jaws and Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much >> difference between pressing h by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in >> addition to h to move among headers. And you say this is easily done >> with one hand? You must have amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've >> been touch typing for decades. It gets even more interesting when you >> add the shift into the mix to go up the page in reverse order. Doable? >> yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a long shot. Are there other >> benefits, such as not having to go in and out of forms mode? for sure. >> The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow Leopard is one of the >> main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really appreciate the numpad >> commander, although learning it was not as intuitive as learning >> mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as efficient >> for me as having that array of single letter keystrokes that let me move >> among various web elements at will. Another thing I hope can be >> implemented in the future is a means of letting focus return to where it >> was when you return back to a previously visited page. That's a big time >> saver with the Windows screen readers, although it doesn't always work. >> Its nonexistent with vo. I like the fact that pages seem to load faster >> with Safari than they do with IE and a screen reader. Over all, for me, >> the Windows experience
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi, I'll definitely give that a try. I'll let you know. I forgot about the spoof feature. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:11 PM, James & Nash wrote: > Hi Nic, > > Have you tried using the "Develop" menu in Safari to try to trick the site > into thinking that you are using FireFox? I think you can find the checkbox > for this menu under the "Advanced" settings. > > TC > James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny > On 12 Feb 2010, at 11:47, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I mean Firefox. Oops. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook Profile >> My Twitter >> >> On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:44 PM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I wish I could redefine default keyboard commands. Like VO-Backslash. >>> Impossible to do on a Danish keyboard, as you need Option for backslash. >>> Oh, and I wish my bank site was accessible. It is on Windows for the most >>> part, but VO doesn't like it and the site recommends that I use Safari. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Nic >>> Skype: Kvalme >>> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >>> AIM: cincinster >>> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >>> Facebook Profile >>> My Twitter >>> >>> On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >>> See you learn something new every day, even this old grumpy man. Have to redefine keyboard shortcuts though, i can't use existing ones due to the keyboard layout of a swedish keyboard. This isn't VOs fault though. /Krister 12 feb 2010 kl. 12.00 skrev Scott Howell: > I would also point out that if you use the Web Spot feature, it is quite > accurate indeed. I have a sweet spot set for a number of locations on the > banking website I use and it surely is the greatest thing for making > navigation of a site efficient. I have it setup so as soon as the page > loads, I'm on the location to enter my login info. Once I'm logged in, I > am immediately on the list of accounts and on the balance information. If > folks have not really explored the possibilities of Web/sweet spots, do > yourself a favor and give them a try, they are very useful. > On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> If I may, I would like to point out that all navigation through elements >> on a web page can be done with one hand and you don't need to remember a >> lot of keys. When in dom. mode, press the left and right arrows at the >> same time to enter quick nav mode. Now, press the left-up or right-up >> to cycle through the navigation items in the roter. Then, navigate >> through the chosen element with the up or down keys. >> >> As far as returning to the prior place in a web page, I have not found >> it to be non existent. There are many times that it works, although, I >> would like to see it work more consistently. I haven't found any screen >> reader do it very well. >> >> I would also like to say that I never found any of the vo key strokes to >> be difficult and I never understood why some people seemed to have such >> a hang-up with them. There are some circumstances where one might need >> to perform a task with only one hand, and I think that it was some what >> of a legitimate concern earlier on. As I pointed out however, that >> issue has been addressed with quick nav. >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >> >>> Hi Scott, >>> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the >>> differences between moving around on a page among elements with Window >>> Eyes or Jaws and Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much >>> difference between pressing h by itself or pressing 3 additional keys >>> in addition to h to move among headers. And you say this is easily done >>> with one hand? You must have amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've >>> been touch typing for decades. It gets even more interesting when you >>> add the shift into the mix to go up the page in reverse order. Doable? >>> yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a long shot. Are there other >>> benefits, such as not having to go in and out of forms mode? for sure. >>> The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow Leopard is one of the >>> main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really appreciate the numpad >>> commander, although learning it was not as intuitive as learning >>> mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as efficient >>> for me as having that array of single letter keystrokes that let me >>> move among various web elements at will. Another thing I hope can be >>> implemented in the future is a mea
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi, Could you tell me how to set a sweet spot? On Feb 12, 2010, at 6:32 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > Hi, > > I use web spots, but always auto web spots. I never set my own. And that's > because The VoiceOver is always right. It's outsmarted me on many occasions. > That may not be very hard to do, but VoiceOver is doing a fantastic job of it. > > Oh, and I sometimes use the "sweet spot". At first, I thought it sounded > dirtier than it really is when it was first introduced. But I like it. It's a > pretty sweet feature, and it's very efficient. > > What else? Oh, right. Bug with proper selection by words, characters or lines > has to be fixed in 10.6.3. Prediction. Wrong? We'll see! > > Regards, > Nic > > P.S: I've had too much coffee for this post. Oh, and has anyone noticed that, > if you write the word "do", Alex says "to"? Do not let yourselves be fooled. > It's actually D O, but it only applies at the beginning of a sentence or on > its own.. > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > >> Ya know, i must be stupid or somesuch, but i never got the hang of the hole >> webspot jazz. I just use arrows to navigate around. Ok it's slow going but >> it works. I find webspots to place me either to far above or below things i >> want to go to and so i have to sift through things to get there anyway and >> so i sift through the hole page. Also, i have found, and i don't know if i'm >> the only one, that vo+arrow keys treats web pages as different objects when >> highlighted, so i can only select one line/paragraph at a time and then VO >> acts as if i had reached the end of a group. I only use groups mode. (I >> figured if i should use new things, it's best to use the new things all the >> time, lol.) >> /Krister >> >> >> 11 feb 2010 kl. 15.46 skrev Ricardo Walker: >> >>> Hi Chris, >>> >>> Yup. I use Safari way more than I do I.E. now a days. I honestly >>> couldn't stand the internet on my Mac with Leopard. But once Snow Leopard >>> came out at the end of August, it changed the game for me. The rotor >>> function along with the web spots really help things to move a long for me >>> as far as navigating the web. Even the navigation with the arrows... when >>> it decides to work) has made Safari on the Mac with voiceover a more >>> enjoyable experience. It all depends on the situation too. I like using >>> the internet on my Mac when working with sighted people. it is just a more >>> seamless transition in my opinion especially if one has a track pad. But >>> if I just want to gobble up a large chunk of info really quick I still >>> think jaws and windows has an advantage. . >>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: >>> Hi, I was VP of Software Engineering at FS when we invented a lot of what is now the common user interface on Windows screen readers. I am proud of the work we did as we certainly moved the art forward. Now, I use Macintosh with Safari. The Windows way of doing things tried to emulate a word processor or some other similar text manipulation application with which a user would already be familiar. This is good in the sense that the learning curve is not too steep but leaves out all of the contextual information a sighted user would have resulting from the juxtaposition of objects in the page's layout. I use both DOM and Groups mode with Safari depending upon the site. A relatively linear site works best with DOM mode as it likes to function in a straight line. Busier sites, however, seem to prefer Groups mode as one can move from big chunk to big chunk rapidly while also learning where objects are in the layout and, by knowing what's near what, you can learn to navigate some sites really quickly and without a lot of caca in between items of value. The trackpad commander is awesome for web browsing but you need either a MacBook or MacBook Pro to enjoy this. A friend over at Serotek told me about a multi-touch trackpad that works both in Windows 7 and Snow Leopard that you can add onto other models but I haven't seen it in action. So, give Safari and the VoiceOver features a bit longer, use the rotor, the item chooser and learn the keystrokes that make web browsing easier and I think you will start to enjoy it more. Of course, JAWS introduced the original virtual buffer system for web browsing back in 1998 and has a lot of time for refinements. It is good but, especially regarding contextual information, is starting to fall behind newer and more forward looking ideas popping up around the AT world. cdh On Feb 11, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: > Hello,
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi, Man, that didn't work with making it think it's Firefox. To set the sweet spot, you have to press VO-Command-}}. Unfortunately, this is another command you can't do on Danish keyboards at least without changing the layout. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: > Hi, > > Could you tell me how to set a sweet spot? > On Feb 12, 2010, at 6:32 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I use web spots, but always auto web spots. I never set my own. And that's >> because The VoiceOver is always right. It's outsmarted me on many occasions. >> That may not be very hard to do, but VoiceOver is doing a fantastic job of >> it. >> >> Oh, and I sometimes use the "sweet spot". At first, I thought it sounded >> dirtier than it really is when it was first introduced. But I like it. It's >> a pretty sweet feature, and it's very efficient. >> >> What else? Oh, right. Bug with proper selection by words, characters or >> lines has to be fixed in 10.6.3. Prediction. Wrong? We'll see! >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> >> P.S: I've had too much coffee for this post. Oh, and has anyone noticed >> that, if you write the word "do", Alex says "to"? Do not let yourselves be >> fooled. It's actually D O, but it only applies at the beginning of a >> sentence or on its own.. >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook Profile >> My Twitter >> >> On Feb 12, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >> >>> Ya know, i must be stupid or somesuch, but i never got the hang of the hole >>> webspot jazz. I just use arrows to navigate around. Ok it's slow going but >>> it works. I find webspots to place me either to far above or below things i >>> want to go to and so i have to sift through things to get there anyway and >>> so i sift through the hole page. Also, i have found, and i don't know if >>> i'm the only one, that vo+arrow keys treats web pages as different objects >>> when highlighted, so i can only select one line/paragraph at a time and >>> then VO acts as if i had reached the end of a group. I only use groups >>> mode. (I figured if i should use new things, it's best to use the new >>> things all the time, lol.) >>> /Krister >>> >>> >>> 11 feb 2010 kl. 15.46 skrev Ricardo Walker: >>> Hi Chris, Yup. I use Safari way more than I do I.E. now a days. I honestly couldn't stand the internet on my Mac with Leopard. But once Snow Leopard came out at the end of August, it changed the game for me. The rotor function along with the web spots really help things to move a long for me as far as navigating the web. Even the navigation with the arrows... when it decides to work) has made Safari on the Mac with voiceover a more enjoyable experience. It all depends on the situation too. I like using the internet on my Mac when working with sighted people. it is just a more seamless transition in my opinion especially if one has a track pad. But if I just want to gobble up a large chunk of info really quick I still think jaws and windows has an advantage. . On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: > Hi, > > I was VP of Software Engineering at FS when we invented a lot of what is > now the common user interface on Windows screen readers. I am proud of > the work we did as we certainly moved the art forward. > > Now, I use Macintosh with Safari. The Windows way of doing things tried > to emulate a word processor or some other similar text manipulation > application with which a user would already be familiar. This is good in > the sense that the learning curve is not too steep but leaves out all of > the contextual information a sighted user would have resulting from the > juxtaposition of objects in the page's layout. > > I use both DOM and Groups mode with Safari depending upon the site. A > relatively linear site works best with DOM mode as it likes to function > in a straight line. Busier sites, however, seem to prefer Groups mode as > one can move from big chunk to big chunk rapidly while also learning > where objects are in the layout and, by knowing what's near what, you can > learn to navigate some sites really quickly and without a lot of caca in > between items of value. > > The trackpad commander is awesome for web browsing but you need either a > MacBook or MacBook Pro to enjoy this. A friend over at Serotek told me > about a multi-touch trackpad that works both in Windows 7 and Snow > Leopard that you can add onto other models but I haven't seen it in > action. > > So, give Safari and the VoiceOver features a bit longer, use the rotor, > the item
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi Nic, I'm sorry to hear that it didn't work. Unfortunately, it doesn't always work. You could also try turning off images and using DOM mode for that particular page. Perhaps that will work. TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny On 12 Feb 2010, at 12:32, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > Hi, > > Man, that didn't work with making it think it's Firefox. > > To set the sweet spot, you have to press VO-Command-}}. Unfortunately, this > is another command you can't do on Danish keyboards at least without changing > the layout. > > Regards, > Nic > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:26 PM, Ricardo Walker wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Could you tell me how to set a sweet spot? >> On Feb 12, 2010, at 6:32 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I use web spots, but always auto web spots. I never set my own. And that's >>> because The VoiceOver is always right. It's outsmarted me on many >>> occasions. That may not be very hard to do, but VoiceOver is doing a >>> fantastic job of it. >>> >>> Oh, and I sometimes use the "sweet spot". At first, I thought it sounded >>> dirtier than it really is when it was first introduced. But I like it. It's >>> a pretty sweet feature, and it's very efficient. >>> >>> What else? Oh, right. Bug with proper selection by words, characters or >>> lines has to be fixed in 10.6.3. Prediction. Wrong? We'll see! >>> >>> Regards, >>> Nic >>> >>> P.S: I've had too much coffee for this post. Oh, and has anyone noticed >>> that, if you write the word "do", Alex says "to"? Do not let yourselves be >>> fooled. It's actually D O, but it only applies at the beginning of a >>> sentence or on its own.. >>> Skype: Kvalme >>> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >>> AIM: cincinster >>> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >>> Facebook Profile >>> My Twitter >>> >>> On Feb 12, 2010, at 11:11 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >>> Ya know, i must be stupid or somesuch, but i never got the hang of the hole webspot jazz. I just use arrows to navigate around. Ok it's slow going but it works. I find webspots to place me either to far above or below things i want to go to and so i have to sift through things to get there anyway and so i sift through the hole page. Also, i have found, and i don't know if i'm the only one, that vo+arrow keys treats web pages as different objects when highlighted, so i can only select one line/paragraph at a time and then VO acts as if i had reached the end of a group. I only use groups mode. (I figured if i should use new things, it's best to use the new things all the time, lol.) /Krister 11 feb 2010 kl. 15.46 skrev Ricardo Walker: > Hi Chris, > > Yup. I use Safari way more than I do I.E. now a days. I honestly > couldn't stand the internet on my Mac with Leopard. But once Snow > Leopard came out at the end of August, it changed the game for me. The > rotor function along with the web spots really help things to move a long > for me as far as navigating the web. Even the navigation with the > arrows... when it decides to work) has made Safari on the Mac with > voiceover a more enjoyable experience. It all depends on the situation > too. I like using the internet on my Mac when working with sighted > people. it is just a more seamless transition in my opinion especially > if one has a track pad. But if I just want to gobble up a large chunk of > info really quick I still think jaws and windows has an advantage. . > On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:28 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I was VP of Software Engineering at FS when we invented a lot of what is >> now the common user interface on Windows screen readers. I am proud of >> the work we did as we certainly moved the art forward. >> >> Now, I use Macintosh with Safari. The Windows way of doing things tried >> to emulate a word processor or some other similar text manipulation >> application with which a user would already be familiar. This is good in >> the sense that the learning curve is not too steep but leaves out all of >> the contextual information a sighted user would have resulting from the >> juxtaposition of objects in the page's layout. >> >> I use both DOM and Groups mode with Safari depending upon the site. A >> relatively linear site works best with DOM mode as it likes to function >> in a straight line. Busier sites, however, seem to prefer Groups mode as >> one can move from big chunk to big chunk rapidly while also learning >> where objects are in the layout and, by knowing what's near what, you >> can learn to navigate some sites really quickly and without a lot of >> caca in between items of value. >> >> The trackpad
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Don't you have Snow Leopard? If so, use the keyboard commander to redefine the keys you can't reach. The keyboard commander can be found in the voiceover utilities app reached by vo+f8. Hth. /Krister 12 feb 2010 kl. 12.44 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: > Hi, > > I wish I could redefine default keyboard commands. Like VO-Backslash. > Impossible to do on a Danish keyboard, as you need Option for backslash. Oh, > and I wish my bank site was accessible. It is on Windows for the most part, > but VO doesn't like it and the site recommends that I use Safari. > > Regards, > Nic > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > >> See you learn something new every day, even this old grumpy man. Have to >> redefine keyboard shortcuts though, i can't use existing ones due to the >> keyboard layout of a swedish keyboard. This isn't VOs fault though. >> /Krister >> >> >> 12 feb 2010 kl. 12.00 skrev Scott Howell: >> >>> I would also point out that if you use the Web Spot feature, it is quite >>> accurate indeed. I have a sweet spot set for a number of locations on the >>> banking website I use and it surely is the greatest thing for making >>> navigation of a site efficient. I have it setup so as soon as the page >>> loads, I'm on the location to enter my login info. Once I'm logged in, I am >>> immediately on the list of accounts and on the balance information. If >>> folks have not really explored the possibilities of Web/sweet spots, do >>> yourself a favor and give them a try, they are very useful. >>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: >>> Hello, If I may, I would like to point out that all navigation through elements on a web page can be done with one hand and you don't need to remember a lot of keys. When in dom. mode, press the left and right arrows at the same time to enter quick nav mode. Now, press the left-up or right-up to cycle through the navigation items in the roter. Then, navigate through the chosen element with the up or down keys. As far as returning to the prior place in a web page, I have not found it to be non existent. There are many times that it works, although, I would like to see it work more consistently. I haven't found any screen reader do it very well. I would also like to say that I never found any of the vo key strokes to be difficult and I never understood why some people seemed to have such a hang-up with them. There are some circumstances where one might need to perform a task with only one hand, and I think that it was some what of a legitimate concern earlier on. As I pointed out however, that issue has been addressed with quick nav. On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > Hi Scott, > I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the > differences between moving around on a page among elements with Window > Eyes or Jaws and Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference > between pressing h by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to > h to move among headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? > You must have amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing > for decades. It gets even more interesting when you add the shift into > the mix to go up the page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as > pressing one key? Not by a long shot. Are there other benefits, such as > not having to go in and out of forms mode? for sure. The added > functionality for VO on the web in Snow Leopard is one of the main > reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really appreciate the numpad commander, > although learning it was not as intuitive as learning mnemonics on the > regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as efficient for me as having > that array of single letter keystrokes that let me move among various web > elements at will. Another thing I hope can be implemented in the future > is a means of letting focus return to where it was when you return back > to a previously visited page. That's a big time saver with the Windows > screen readers, although it doesn't always work. Its nonexistent with > vo. I like the fact that pages seem to load faster with Safari than they > do with IE and a screen reader. Over all, for me, the Windows experience > is still more efficient. But there are pluses with the Mac, and I'm > hoping it will keep improving. Group mode is something I have tried and > dropped. I just never found a page where it seemed to offer any > advantage, since I don't really care how the page is laid out. I want > info and where it is on the page just doesn't seem very important
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
I must admit that one reason I use the rotor so much is that I am not a classical pianist like Iggy so some of the keystrokes are a bit hard for this old nerd. cdh On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > Hi Scott, > I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences > between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and > Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h > by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among > headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have amazing > hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It gets even > more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the page in > reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a long shot. > Are there other benefits, such as not having to go in and out of forms mode? > for sure. The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow Leopard is one of > the main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really appreciate the numpad > commander, although learning it was not as intuitive as learning mnemonics on > the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as efficient for me as having > that array of single letter keystrokes that let me move among various web > elements at will. Another thing I hope can be implemented in the future is a > means of letting focus return to where it was when you return back to a > previously visited page. That's a big time saver with the Windows screen > readers, although it doesn't always work. Its nonexistent with vo. I like > the fact that pages seem to load faster with Safari than they do with IE and > a screen reader. Over all, for me, the Windows experience is still more > efficient. But there are pluses with the Mac, and I'm hoping it will keep > improving. Group mode is something I have tried and dropped. I just never > found a page where it seemed to offer any advantage, since I don't really > care how the page is laid out. I want info and where it is on the page just > doesn't seem very important to me, so long as I can get to it efficiently. > Maybe I don't go to the right sites where group mode's benefits are displayed > to best advantage. > > Mary > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: possible voiceover possibilities for office for mac 2011???
I've heard the new MS Office has been rewritten for Cocoa and should be accessible but information from MS can be true and false at the same time. On Feb 11, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Scott Ballard-RidleyScott Ridley wrote: > hi all > > I have just read on the mac world website that microsoft has announced > the launch of office for mac 2011. Could this be the answer to our > prayers by finally being accessible to voiceover users? Does anyone > have the inside line on this? > > Keep your fingers crossed. > > Scott > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: brail display and voice over
Yes, in fact, I always set up a mute key on my displays, so I can just hit the button and make it happen. Speech while I'm brailling is really distracting. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2010-02-11, at 2:47 PM, louie wrote: > Hi all, > If you mute voice over by checking the mute voice over check box in the voice > over utilities is a braille display still usable. > > louie > louiem...@wavecable.com > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
What about control option shift C? This will copy the last thing voice over said to the clip board. It's pretty much the only way I copy things off web pages, unless the pages them selves are poorly designed. It works like this. Hear something that you want to rip off the page like a phone number, list of directions, or any block of text read to you by voiceover. Press control option shift C. Paste the text into your email, word document or what ever with command V. That really works about 80 per sent of the time or more. It's not great for copying huge chunks but it's better than all this interacting and vo entering and so on. I think realisticly that all though the reasons why webpages behave this way are good ones, all that business to copy and paste information from the web to another applocation is inelegant. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2010-02-11, at 8:58 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: > Hello, > > I've been a Mac user for almost 2 years, and I personally don't find the web > browsing experience on my Mac using Safari with voiceover to be on par with > that of internet explorer and Jaws. For example, Look at the steps you > explained to highlight and copy text "If you interact with text, use > VO-shift-return, you can initiate marking of text and use VO-cursor keys to > navigate and mark that text, then use VO-shift-return to stop marking the > text. FInally command-c will copy that text for you to paste where you > choose. You can also interact with text and use command-a to highlight all > text you can then copy..." On I.E. you would just use shift and the arrows > or some function of navigation commonly used throughout the Operating system. > In Snow Leopard one should be able to use the arrows by them selves to > navigate a web page and with shift to select. This is not the case most of > the time. The folks didn't include this functionality into snow leopard by > accident or just to appease windows converts in my opinion. They realized > that the previous method was just a pain, not to mention labor intensive in > regards to the task actually trying to be accomplished. I use Dom mode and > sometimes voiceover indeed skips over chunks of information. I am not saying > that Safari with Voiceover isn't serviceable but, by no means in my opinion > is it as dependable as I.E. with Jaws. And this is coming from someone who > Uses their Mac as their primary computer. > On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:48 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > >> I think you need to take some additional time to learn how best to use >> Safari with VOiceOver. I've been using the Mac for five years now and >> although like any browser and screen reader, Safari and VO has issues, but >> certainly not to the degree you seem to be having. Reading line by line is >> no problem at all and copying information to the clipboard is again, no >> problem. There is lots of information on how to accomplish both tasks and >> perhaps a little research on your part will help. I'll give you a tip. If >> you interact with text, use VO-shift-return, you can initiate marking of >> text and use VO-cursor keys to navigate and mark that text, then use >> VO-shift-return to stop marking the text. FInally command-c will copy that >> text for you to paste where you choose. You can also interact with text and >> use command-a to highlight all text you can then copy. You coming from >> windows and using IE may find DOM mode more like your browsing experience >> under windows using a windows-based screen reader. If your using Groups >> mode, you are going to find the navigation of the page not to be linear as >> is provided by DOM mode. Groups mode gives a more accurate representation >> of how the page is laid out unlike DOM mode. >> Once you have used Safari a while, I think you will find it will meet your >> needs just fine. I am not so sure that even if Firefox is made accessible, >> you will find the browsing experience significantly different. I think what >> you will find is some differences in browsing experience as far as how some >> sites behave, but assuming Mozilla leverages the accessibility hooks of VO, >> the navigation will likely be quite similar. >> >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:59 AM, Lynn Schneider wrote: >> >>> Oh I would so love to have an alternative to Safari! I'm a fairly recent >>> switcher and I don't miss Windows at all except that I totally and >>> absolutely miss the great accessibility I had with IE. I hate the fact >>> that I can't read line by line or copy web page text to the clipboard and >>> he disturbing thing with VO and >>> Safari is that I find that whole parts of pages are not read at all. I >>> think Safari is the app I most dislike on the Mac. Everything else about >>> the Mac is wonderful. >>> On Feb 10, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Chris Blouch wrote: >>> >
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
That's interesting. I was under the impression that ardic had invented the idea of the virtual buffer system. at least, I saw it in winvision first, and remember the manual was pretty excited about it. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2010-02-11, at 9:28 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: > Hi, > > I was VP of Software Engineering at FS when we invented a lot of what is now > the common user interface on Windows screen readers. I am proud of the work > we did as we certainly moved the art forward. > > Now, I use Macintosh with Safari. The Windows way of doing things tried to > emulate a word processor or some other similar text manipulation application > with which a user would already be familiar. This is good in the sense that > the learning curve is not too steep but leaves out all of the contextual > information a sighted user would have resulting from the juxtaposition of > objects in the page's layout. > > I use both DOM and Groups mode with Safari depending upon the site. A > relatively linear site works best with DOM mode as it likes to function in a > straight line. Busier sites, however, seem to prefer Groups mode as one can > move from big chunk to big chunk rapidly while also learning where objects > are in the layout and, by knowing what's near what, you can learn to navigate > some sites really quickly and without a lot of caca in between items of value. > > The trackpad commander is awesome for web browsing but you need either a > MacBook or MacBook Pro to enjoy this. A friend over at Serotek told me about > a multi-touch trackpad that works both in Windows 7 and Snow Leopard that you > can add onto other models but I haven't seen it in action. > > So, give Safari and the VoiceOver features a bit longer, use the rotor, the > item chooser and learn the keystrokes that make web browsing easier and I > think you will start to enjoy it more. > > Of course, JAWS introduced the original virtual buffer system for web > browsing back in 1998 and has a lot of time for refinements. It is good but, > especially regarding contextual information, is starting to fall behind newer > and more forward looking ideas popping up around the AT world. > > cdh > On Feb 11, 2010, at 8:58 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> I've been a Mac user for almost 2 years, and I personally don't find the web >> browsing experience on my Mac using Safari with voiceover to be on par with >> that of internet explorer and Jaws. For example, Look at the steps you >> explained to highlight and copy text "If you interact with text, use >> VO-shift-return, you can initiate marking of text and use VO-cursor keys to >> navigate and mark that text, then use VO-shift-return to stop marking the >> text. FInally command-c will copy that text for you to paste where you >> choose. You can also interact with text and use command-a to highlight all >> text you can then copy..." On I.E. you would just use shift and the arrows >> or some function of navigation commonly used throughout the Operating >> system. In Snow Leopard one should be able to use the arrows by them selves >> to navigate a web page and with shift to select. This is not the case most >> of the time. The folks didn't include this functionality into snow leopard >> by accident or just to appease windows converts in my opinion. They >> realized that the previous method was just a pain, not to mention labor >> intensive in regards to the task actually trying to be accomplished. I use >> Dom mode and sometimes voiceover indeed skips over chunks of information. I >> am not saying that Safari with Voiceover isn't serviceable but, by no means >> in my opinion is it as dependable as I.E. with Jaws. And this is coming >> from someone who Uses their Mac as their primary computer. >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:48 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >> >>> I think you need to take some additional time to learn how best to use >>> Safari with VOiceOver. I've been using the Mac for five years now and >>> although like any browser and screen reader, Safari and VO has issues, but >>> certainly not to the degree you seem to be having. Reading line by line is >>> no problem at all and copying information to the clipboard is again, no >>> problem. There is lots of information on how to accomplish both tasks and >>> perhaps a little research on your part will help. I'll give you a tip. If >>> you interact with text, use VO-shift-return, you can initiate marking of >>> text and use VO-cursor keys to navigate and mark that text, then use >>> VO-shift-return to stop marking the text. FInally command-c will copy that >>> text for you to paste where you choose. You can also interact with text and >>> use command-a to highlight all text you can then copy. You coming from >>> windows and using IE may find DOM mode more like your browsing e
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hello Aman, Several years ago, windows screen readers introduced table navigation into the windows browsing experience. Actually it was a lot of years ago now that I come to think of it. We could use my live music trading site http://livemusic.erik-burggraaf.com as an example. If you go to that site and click the DVD link, you will get a table that has 8 columns and about 1370 rows. If you navigate this table without regard to the placement of things, you would need to navigate through over 11000 sells worth of information. I have some 30 linkin park DVD's listed up there, and at least 25 live DVD's. If you didn't like linkin park, but you really wanted to get to the live DVD's cause you were a huge fan, you'd have to read in excrusiating detail about the lp DVD's before you got to the Live dvd's. Doing an HTML search wouldn't necessarily help you because the word live appears at least 100 times on that page. It's a live music trading site after all. Thanks to table mode, you can use a system to go down just the left most column of a table, in this case, the artist column. Because I have some understanding of the value of object placement, I spanned all the rows covered by each artist, and aligned the name of the artist to the top of the spanned rows. So the artist name appears only once, and when you move down the table, you jump right over that artist's shows to the first listing of the next artist. You can then go right to the date column and look at all the shows I have listed for Live by date. I have traded with other people who built their own sites using geocities or freewebs without any tables or headings or groupings of any kind, and it's brootal man. It can take an hour to get through a list of 5 or 600 shows. I've got hundreds here that I haven't even watched, so I often get to a point very quickly where I stop looking at messy and disorganized trade sites. That's a really big example, but another one is computer store web sites. They'll have a navigation bar of about 80 links, one per catagory of computer equipment, and they don't have a nice convenient heading for you to use to skip over that. If I know that the navigation bar is on the left and the product listings are on the right, then I can Push the right arrow once in group mode and be taken to the spot where the listings start. Other wise, I'd have to go down through the listing of all 80 catagories. To be fare, I could also bring up the item chooser and type a filter to jump where I want to go, but on big sites, the item chooser can take a few seconds to load. Not an ideal situation for say, a client calls and asks for some obscure part, and you say, "let me get you a price on that real quick. Just a minute here I'm waiting for my computer..." I know this happens all the time, but the less it happens to me, the more polished and professional I feel talking dealing with my support and training clients. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2010-02-11, at 9:58 AM, Aman Singer wrote: > Hi, CDH. > It is very good to see you here. As usual, one of your messages has > gotten me to think. You say: > Now, I use Macintosh with Safari. The Windows way of doing things > tried to emulate a word processor or some other similar text > manipulation application > with which a user would already be familiar. This is good in the sense > that the learning curve is not too steep but leaves out all of the > contextual information > a sighted user would have resulting from the juxtaposition of objects > in the page's layout. > > I agree with the fact that contextual information is usually left out > in what I might describe, after Jaws, Wineyes, and SA, as the standard > method of browsing on Windows. However, I'm a bit confused as to why > this matters. Maybe I'm missing the glaringly obvious, but why would > the contextual information interest me on most web pages? By > contextual information, I assume you mean the placement of information > on the page in relation to other aspects of the page. Maybe this is > really vital to sighted users, and maybe I'd love it if I had it, but > as it stands, I would put access to contextual information rather low > on the list of priorities. The whole point of any web page, at least > for me, is to use the information on that page, and any services the > page offers, easily and quickly. I can see certain pages where the > information is important, but for the vast majority of pages, where > things are put, what they look like, etc, doesn't fill me with > curiosity. How does contextual information, for a blind user, aid in > this? Feel free to point me to an article explaining this if there is > one. > Thanks. > Aman > > > On 2/11/10, Chris Hofstader wrote: >> I'm in touch with both Willy and Mike and I'll pass on your regards. >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:17 AM, Jame
Re: possible voiceover possibilities for office for mac 2011???
Microsoft Office for Mac 2011 Confirmed During MacWorld [Office For Mac Details Emerge, Availability Set For Later This Year] Posted at: http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/02/12/microsoft-office-for-mac-2011-confirmed-during-macworld-office-for-mac-details-emerge-availability-set-for-later-this-year/ Posted February 12th 2010 by Alex under Computers At this year’s MacWorld Expo in San Francisco the folks from Microsoft have announced that Office 2011 for Mac will be released sometime later this year. Seen as the first Apple -based suites to bring a fully Mac-tailored version of Outlook (using Apple ’s Cocoa API) and web-based co-authoring, the new Office for Mac 2011 will include myriad tweaks to how users share and interact with documents. Office for Mac 2011 “You’ve told us that working together across platforms is a priority to you and that’s why we are making Office for Mac 2011 the best, most compatible productivity suite on the Mac,” says Eric Wilfrid, MacBU General Manager at Microsoft. More detailed features for the Microsoft Office for Mac 2011 include: list of 5 items • Entourage goes, here comes Outlook — hated Entourage or the web- based version of Outlook, now you’re finally getting Outlook for Mac • .PTS support — allows users to back up and open their emails outside their mail client and brings permission settings for the first time • Co-authoring — allows you and your co-workers to edit Word, PowerPoint or Excel files at the same time, regardless of time, geography or platform • Office Web Apps — lighter versions of the desktop counterparts, you’ll be able to get your work done as long as you have a machine connected to the Internet • The “Ribbon” UI — new user interface with an unique Mac-like feel, a perfect mix between the Office 2008 Elements Gallery, the classic Mac menu and Standard Toolbar Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-02-12, at 8:20 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: I've heard the new MS Office has been rewritten for Cocoa and should be accessible but information from MS can be true and false at the same time. On Feb 11, 2010, at 11:02 PM, Scott Ballard-RidleyScott Ridley wrote: hi all I have just read on the mac world website that microsoft has announced the launch of office for mac 2011. Could this be the answer to our prayers by finally being accessible to voiceover users? Does anyone have the inside line on this? Keep your fingers crossed. Scott -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi Mary, Have you tried cutting out a bunch of those intensive keys by pressing control option semicolon to lock the vo keys? This is a minor inconvenience but usefull for prolonged periods of browsing. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2010-02-11, at 7:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > Hi Scott, > I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences > between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and > Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h > by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among > headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have amazing > hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It gets even > more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the page in > reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a long shot. > Are there other benefits, such as not having to go in and out of forms mode? > for sure. The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow Leopard is one of > the main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really appreciate the numpad > commander, although learning it was not as intuitive as learning mnemonics on > the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as efficient for me as having > that array of single letter keystrokes that let me move among various web > elements at will. Another thing I hope can be implemented in the future is a > means of letting focus return to where it was when you return back to a > previously visited page. That's a big time saver with the Windows screen > readers, although it doesn't always work. Its nonexistent with vo. I like > the fact that pages seem to load faster with Safari than they do with IE and > a screen reader. Over all, for me, the Windows experience is still more > efficient. But there are pluses with the Mac, and I'm hoping it will keep > improving. Group mode is something I have tried and dropped. I just never > found a page where it seemed to offer any advantage, since I don't really > care how the page is laid out. I want info and where it is on the page just > doesn't seem very important to me, so long as I can get to it efficiently. > Maybe I don't go to the right sites where group mode's benefits are displayed > to best advantage. > > Mary > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi, Yeah, I know about the keyboard commander. I'd prefer to be able to replace the current keystroke, which is really what I want and not have two keystrokes for the same function. Not that it matters much, but I like not having things cluttered so I can free up space for other commands. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:56 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: > > Don't you have Snow Leopard? If so, use the keyboard commander to redefine > the keys you can't reach. > The keyboard commander can be found in the voiceover utilities app reached by > vo+f8. > Hth. > /Krister > > 12 feb 2010 kl. 12.44 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: > >> Hi, >> >> I wish I could redefine default keyboard commands. Like VO-Backslash. >> Impossible to do on a Danish keyboard, as you need Option for backslash. Oh, >> and I wish my bank site was accessible. It is on Windows for the most part, >> but VO doesn't like it and the site recommends that I use Safari. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook Profile >> My Twitter >> >> On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:36 PM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: >> >>> See you learn something new every day, even this old grumpy man. Have to >>> redefine keyboard shortcuts though, i can't use existing ones due to the >>> keyboard layout of a swedish keyboard. This isn't VOs fault though. >>> /Krister >>> >>> >>> 12 feb 2010 kl. 12.00 skrev Scott Howell: >>> I would also point out that if you use the Web Spot feature, it is quite accurate indeed. I have a sweet spot set for a number of locations on the banking website I use and it surely is the greatest thing for making navigation of a site efficient. I have it setup so as soon as the page loads, I'm on the location to enter my login info. Once I'm logged in, I am immediately on the list of accounts and on the balance information. If folks have not really explored the possibilities of Web/sweet spots, do yourself a favor and give them a try, they are very useful. On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: > Hello, > > If I may, I would like to point out that all navigation through elements > on a web page can be done with one hand and you don't need to remember a > lot of keys. When in dom. mode, press the left and right arrows at the > same time to enter quick nav mode. Now, press the left-up or right-up to > cycle through the navigation items in the roter. Then, navigate through > the chosen element with the up or down keys. > > As far as returning to the prior place in a web page, I have not found it > to be non existent. There are many times that it works, although, I > would like to see it work more consistently. I haven't found any screen > reader do it very well. > > I would also like to say that I never found any of the vo key strokes to > be difficult and I never understood why some people seemed to have such a > hang-up with them. There are some circumstances where one might need to > perform a task with only one hand, and I think that it was some what of a > legitimate concern earlier on. As I pointed out however, that issue has > been addressed with quick nav. > > > On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > >> Hi Scott, >> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the >> differences between moving around on a page among elements with Window >> Eyes or Jaws and Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much >> difference between pressing h by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in >> addition to h to move among headers. And you say this is easily done >> with one hand? You must have amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've >> been touch typing for decades. It gets even more interesting when you >> add the shift into the mix to go up the page in reverse order. Doable? >> yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a long shot. Are there other >> benefits, such as not having to go in and out of forms mode? for sure. >> The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow Leopard is one of the >> main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really appreciate the numpad >> commander, although learning it was not as intuitive as learning >> mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as efficient >> for me as having that array of single letter keystrokes that let me move >> among various web elements at will. Another thing I hope can be >> implemented in the future is a means of letting focus return to where it >> was when you return back to a previously visited page. That's a big time >> saver with the Windows screen readers, althou
skype and beginner guides
HI all. Just started teaching someone the mac for the first time as she sees many advantages over learning a windows computer. ONe of the first things she wants to do is make skype calls. Got that going with little difficulty, but I wonder if there are hot keys for starting a call and hanging up. I know I can do vo m to get to the menu and go over to call and find the appropriate items but windows use has turned me into a lazy person. I had a hunt through preferences but couldn't find any place wehre Ican set up hot keys for these things. Did I miss something? Also, the getting started with vo manual which is very well done only seems to be available in an html format now as well as gade ii braille as a brf file. I know someone did a daisy version of the last one. Anyone got a direct url for that as it was a very valuable tool for a beginner and I learned a lot about using my mac from it so I would like to be able to share it as a daisy version. Thanks. Brian. follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: skype and beginner guides
I'll add a Skype question to this thread. Is it possible to check skype voicemail with VoiceOver? If someone can give directions that'd be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-02-12, at 8:39 AM, Brian Moore wrote: HI all. Just started teaching someone the mac for the first time as she sees many advantages over learning a windows computer. ONe of the first things she wants to do is make skype calls. Got that going with little difficulty, but I wonder if there are hot keys for starting a call and hanging up. I know I can do vo m to get to the menu and go over to call and find the appropriate items but windows use has turned me into a lazy person. I had a hunt through preferences but couldn't find any place wehre Ican set up hot keys for these things. Did I miss something? Also, the getting started with vo manual which is very well done only seems to be available in an html format now as well as gade ii braille as a brf file. I know someone did a daisy version of the last one. Anyone got a direct url for that as it was a very valuable tool for a beginner and I learned a lot about using my mac from it so I would like to be able to share it as a daisy version. Thanks. Brian. follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: web/sweet spots (wasBlog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard)
Hi all, This may be a dumb question, but is there a difference between web spots and sweet spots? TIA, Donna On Feb 12, 2010, at 6:00 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > I would also point out that if you use the Web Spot feature, it is quite > accurate indeed. I have a sweet spot set for a number of locations on the > banking website I use and it surely is the greatest thing for making > navigation of a site efficient. I have it setup so as soon as the page loads, > I'm on the location to enter my login info. Once I'm logged in, I am > immediately on the list of accounts and on the balance information. If folks > have not really explored the possibilities of Web/sweet spots, do yourself a > favor and give them a try, they are very useful. > On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: > >> Hello, >> >> If I may, I would like to point out that all navigation through elements on >> a web page can be done with one hand and you don't need to remember a lot of >> keys. When in dom. mode, press the left and right arrows at the same time >> to enter quick nav mode. Now, press the left-up or right-up to cycle >> through the navigation items in the roter. Then, navigate through the >> chosen element with the up or down keys. >> >> As far as returning to the prior place in a web page, I have not found it to >> be non existent. There are many times that it works, although, I would like >> to see it work more consistently. I haven't found any screen reader do it >> very well. >> >> I would also like to say that I never found any of the vo key strokes to be >> difficult and I never understood why some people seemed to have such a >> hang-up with them. There are some circumstances where one might need to >> perform a task with only one hand, and I think that it was some what of a >> legitimate concern earlier on. As I pointed out however, that issue has >> been addressed with quick nav. >> >> >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >> >>> Hi Scott, >>> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences >>> between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and >>> Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h >>> by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among >>> headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have >>> amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It >>> gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the >>> page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a >>> long shot. Are there other benefits, such as not having to go in and out of >>> forms mode? for sure. The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow >>> Leopard is one of the main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really >>> appreciate the numpad commander, although learning it was not as intuitive >>> as learning mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as >>> efficient for me as having that array of single letter keystrokes that let >>> me move among various web elements at will. Another thing I hope can be >>> implemented in the future is a means of letting focus return to where it >>> was when you return back to a previously visited page. That's a big time >>> saver with the Windows screen readers, although it doesn't always work. >>> Its nonexistent with vo. I like the fact that pages seem to load faster >>> with Safari than they do with IE and a screen reader. Over all, for me, the >>> Windows experience is still more efficient. But there are pluses with the >>> Mac, and I'm hoping it will keep improving. Group mode is something I have >>> tried and dropped. I just never found a page where it seemed to offer any >>> advantage, since I don't really care how the page is laid out. I want info >>> and where it is on the page just doesn't seem very important to me, so long >>> as I can get to it efficiently. Maybe I don't go to the right sites where >>> group mode's benefits are displayed to best advantage. >>> >>> Mary >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Re: Accessible PDF viewer, was weird pdf document.
Hi James, Carlene, and Others, You need to set a hot spot if you want to go back to the same location in Preview after shifting to another app. Before you navigate away from Preview, press VO-Shift-1 (or any other number key that you want to assign to th hot spot). You'll hear VoiceOver say, "Save as hotspot 1". Then, you can switch applications with Command-tab, do something else, and when you return to Preview press VO-1 to get back to your hot spot location so you can resume reading where you left off. This is a workaround, and the hot spot won't be saved if you have to restart VoiceOver or if you log out. Like James, I haven't had VO go back to the beginning of the paragraph if I stop or start speech with Control and I haven't left the application. Did you interact with the text area when you started reading? Skim uses the same basic underpinnings as Preview, so it generally shares the same problems, but seems to have better focus behavior within the app.What's tricky is that some of the detailed VO behavior for any particular app is operating system version dependent, and some things change when a new version is released. Flakey focus behavior can lead to all sorts of workarounds for specific tasks -- there are plenty of instances in the archives of ways to do things that seem slightly tortuous, and only had to be used for a specific period of time -- and just from reading the posts, 10.6.2 seems buggy in many small ways. The hotspot trick should work for resuming in Preview, though. HTH Cheers, Esther James & Nash wrote: Hi carlene, On 12 Feb 2010, at 01:13, carlene knight wrote: I've got a question about preview, now that you mention it. when I was trying to read the Vo getting started PDF, I would stop speech with control and then when I wanted to continue, it would go back to the beginning of the paragraph I was on. It was very frustrating. How do you get around that? What version of Mac OS X are you running? As Esther mentioned in her post, some aspects depend on what operating system you are using. I've never had that before, but are you going to a different application when you stop speech. This would make VO read from a different position - usually the beginning. VO does not seem to have the ability to retain its place in a PDF yet if you move to a different application. HTH TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny I've got a question about preview, now that you mention it. when I was trying to read the Vo getting started PDF, I would stop speech with control and then when I wanted to continue, it would go back to the beginning of the paragraph I was on. It was very frustrating. How do you get around that? On Feb 11, 2010, at 12:51 PM, James & Nash wrote: Hi Carolyn On 11 Feb 2010, at 19:43, Carolyn wrote: I'm looking at a "user guide" in a pdf file, on the MacBook Pro. I can't seem to get beyond the first page, or copyright info. I assume this is because I'm using previewer. Would I get further using the Skim program you mentioned here? Try pressing page down. That should move you to the next page. TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny James: I'm looking at a "user guide" in a pdf file, on the MacBook Pro. I can't seem to get beyond the first page, or copyright info. I assume this is because I'm using previewer. Would I get further using the Skim program you mentioned here? TIA Carolyn CH:) - Original Message - From: James & Nash To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Sent: Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:12 AM Subject: Re: Accessible PDF viewer, was weird pdf document. Hi, Other than Preview is there a PDF viewer / reader application that is accessible with VoiceOver? Yes there is, it is called Skim and you can get it from SourceForge or: http://www.opensourcemac.org TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny On 11 Feb 2010, at 12:27, E.J. Zufelt wrote: Good morning, Other than Preview is there a PDF viewer / reader application that is accessible with VoiceOver? Thanks, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-02-11, at 7:23 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: The PDF author did not use the appropriate table tags in your problem document. You may be able to do a "select all" and copy and paste the table into a word processor or spreadsheet which may be able to sort out the broken table for you. Otherwise, you are SOL - Viva Adobe! On Feb 10, 2010, at 10:43 AM, erik burggraaf wrote: Hi Guys, I've got a list of contacts here in PDF format. It's a sort'a table with name, address, phone number and so on. So, no matter how I view this table in prevuew, it always gives me all the names first. After that it gives me all the addresses. Then it gives me all the phone numbers. I've tried going up and down, left and right, with and without quick nav, and the order is always the same no
irc client
HI all. Another question I could use some help with. Anyone found an irc client that works well with vo. It may be possible to use ichat to connect to an irc server but I haven't tried and my mac isn't available at the moment. thoughts would be appreciated. thanks. Brian. follow me on twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: irc client
Hi Brian, On 12 Feb 2010, at 14:21, Brian Moore wrote: > > HI all. Another question I could use some help with. Anyone found an irc > client that works well with vo. It may be possible to use ichat to connect > to an irc server but I haven't tried and my mac isn't available at the moment. I think Adium can be used as an IRC client too. You can get it from: http://www.adiumx.com TC James,Lyn, Nash & Twinny > HI all. Another question I could use some help with. Anyone found an irc > client that works well with vo. It may be possible to use ichat to connect > to an irc server but I haven't tried and my mac isn't available at the moment. > > thoughts would be appreciated. > thanks. > Brian. > > follow me on twitter: > > http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: skype and beginner guides
Hi Brian, On 12 Feb 2010, at 13:39, Brian Moore wrote: > Just started teaching someone the mac for the first time as she > sees many advantages over learning a windows computer. ONe of the first > things she wants to do is make skype calls. Got that going with little > difficulty, but I wonder if there are hot keys for starting a call and > hanging up. I know I can do vo m to get to the menu and go over to call and > find the appropriate items but windows use has turned me into a lazy person. You can definitely set a keyboard shortcut for hanging up and calling someone. You ned to do this from within the "Keyboard" preferences option in System Preferences: 1. Open System Preferences and navigate to the "Keyboard" button. You can also use the item chooser menu which will remove the need to navigate through the other options. 2. Select the "Keyboard Shortcuts" tab. 3. Press the "Add an Application Shortcut" button and select Skype from the Applications. 4. You should then be presented with a dialogue where you'll need to add the command for which you want to create the shortcut. Make sure that type the command exctly as it apears in the menu i.e. Hang Up has a capital H and a capital U with a space in between the words. 5. Press "Ok" You'll need to do this for all the commands you want to create except that to create the new commands for Skype, simply select Skype from the table and then press the "Add Application shortcut" button again. HTH TC James Lyn Nash & Twinny > HI all. Just started teaching someone the mac for the first time as she > sees many advantages over learning a windows computer. ONe of the first > things she wants to do is make skype calls. Got that going with little > difficulty, but I wonder if there are hot keys for starting a call and > hanging up. I know I can do vo m to get to the menu and go over to call and > find the appropriate items but windows use has turned me into a lazy person. > I had a hunt through preferences but couldn't find any place wehre Ican set > up hot keys for these things. > Did I miss something? > Also, the getting started with vo manual which is very well done only seems > to be available in an html format now as well as gade ii braille as a brf > file. I know someone did a daisy version of the last one. Anyone got a > direct url for that as it was a very valuable tool for a beginner and I > learned a lot about using my mac from it so I would like to be able to share > it as a daisy version. > Thanks. > Brian. > follow me on twitter: > http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 > follow me on twitter: > http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 > > follow me on twitter: > > http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: skype and beginner guides
Hi Everett On 12 Feb 2010, at 13:49, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > I'll add a Skype question to this thread. Is it possible to check skype > voicemail with VoiceOver? If someone can give directions that'd be greatly > appreciated. To listen to Voice Mail with Voice Over, select the "Call list" option in the "Call" menu. This will bring up a list of recent calls. Find the Voice mail from the list and press VO + Shift + M. The first option should be listen. Press enter and you can then listen to your heart's content. HTH TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny > I'll add a Skype question to this thread. Is it possible to check skype > voicemail with VoiceOver? If someone can give directions that'd be greatly > appreciated. > > Thanks, > Everett > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > On 2010-02-12, at 8:39 AM, Brian Moore wrote: > >> HI all. Just started teaching someone the mac for the first time as she >> sees many advantages over learning a windows computer. ONe of the first >> things she wants to do is make skype calls. Got that going with little >> difficulty, but I wonder if there are hot keys for starting a call and >> hanging up. I know I can do vo m to get to the menu and go over to call and >> find the appropriate items but windows use has turned me into a lazy person. >> I had a hunt through preferences but couldn't find any place wehre Ican set >> up hot keys for these things. >> Did I miss something? >> Also, the getting started with vo manual which is very well done only seems >> to be available in an html format now as well as gade ii braille as a brf >> file. I know someone did a daisy version of the last one. Anyone got a >> direct url for that as it was a very valuable tool for a beginner and I >> learned a lot about using my mac from it so I would like to be able to share >> it as a daisy version. >> Thanks. >> Brian. >> follow me on twitter: >> http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 >> follow me on twitter: >> http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 >> >> follow me on twitter: >> >> http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi, What I do when I want to copy off large amounts of text from web pages, or read items that VoiceOver won't read in Safari (because the text is in non-Roman characters -- for example, mixed Cyrillic script for Russian, or Greek characters used in an equation) is use a keyboard shortcut for a service menu option to send the selection to TextEdit. You'll need to set up your Services preferences and define a shortcut key. Go to System Preferences > Keyboard > Keyboard Shortcuts and then select "Preferences". Then check the shortcut you want to use -- in this case, "New TextEdit Window Containing Selection", and assign a shortcut key combination to this. I don't want to try giving exact instructions for Snow Leopard, but if you want extra help, this tutorial web page gives the details of how to customize services for Snow Leopard (since I set my definition up under Leopard): http://smokingapples.com/software/tutorials/services-snow-leopard-explained-download/ You can select any part of a web page, but if you want everything, just press Command-A and then issue whatever shortcut key you assigned to "New TextEdit Window Containing Selection", and it will all show up in a TextEdit window. This is really efficient if you just want the text content, because it doesn't use up resources trying to copy, and strips out extraneous images -- unlike using copy and paste, which has much more impact on VO use of resources. If I just want content, I also usually have TextEdit set up to use plain text windows, but that's a detail. TextEdit is the best app for examining non-English characters (or non- standard English characters), so I use TextEdit a lot when I want to work with other languages. Back in Safari 3, when we had to use WebKit to get around some of the underlying WebKit bugs -- like having to reload the page for certain sites in order to expose content to VoiceOver -- I would just press Command-A and my shortcut for "New TextEdit Window Containing Selection" and all the content would immediately go to a TextEdit window where VO would start reading immediately, and I could navigate as I liked. If I sent this to a TextEdit window that was in Rich Text Format instead of plain text (set up in my TextEdit preferences), I could even click on links in the TextEdit window. This is a posted suggestion that never seems to be used on this list. I usually answer posts in the same thread as they're posted, and in a lot of cases with new users the questions get posted in an existing thread with a different topic. I realize from Erik's comments about how he deletes threads by topics (and others have posted in the past about the problem not creating new threads for questions, and/or using inappropriate subject lines), that a lot of my posted answers just never get read because of this. Since someone on another, lower volume, list found this suggestion useful when he switched to a Mac over a year ago, I'll mention it again. For short passages, I use VO-Shift-C to copy VO's last phrase to the clip board. For longer passages, I select and use the Services menu shortcut to send my selection to a TextEdit window. I don't have to paste anything. HTH Cheers, Esther erik burggraaf wrote: What about control option shift C? This will copy the last thing voice over said to the clip board. It's pretty much the only way I copy things off web pages, unless the pages them selves are poorly designed. It works like this. Hear something that you want to rip off the page like a phone number, list of directions, or any block of text read to you by voiceover. Press control option shift C. Paste the text into your email, word document or what ever with command V. That really works about 80 per sent of the time or more. It's not great for copying huge chunks but it's better than all this interacting and vo entering and so on. I think realisticly that all though the reasons why webpages behave this way are good ones, all that business to copy and paste information from the web to another applocation is inelegant. Best, erik burggraaf A+ certified technician and user support consultant. Phone: 888-255-5194 Email: e...@erik-burggraaf.com On 2010-02-11, at 8:58 AM, Ricardo Walker wrote: Hello, I've been a Mac user for almost 2 years, and I personally don't find the web browsing experience on my Mac using Safari with voiceover to be on par with that of internet explorer and Jaws. For example, Look at the steps you explained to highlight and copy text "If you interact with text, use VO-shift-return, you can initiate marking of text and use VO-cursor keys to navigate and mark that text, then use VO-shift-return to stop marking the text. FInally command-c will copy that text for you to paste where you choose. You can also interact with text and use command-a to highlight all text you
RE: deleting an app from an iPhone using vo
Hi, you can delete the app by doing this. Find the app you want to delete and then double tap and hold this will put it in a edit mode. Then just chose delete on that app. Now this will only work on app that you installed. Also the next time you go to sync make sure you uncheck this app under the app tab or it will be put back on the phone. The other way is do it in iTunes. You can do this by hooking your phone to your PC or Mac and in iTunes go to your iPhone and look under the app tab and uncheck the app that you don't want on your phone any more. Then sync your iPhone. This should remove this app from the phone. Now this will not un install it from the computer. Hopes this helps. Sign, JP ( Joe Plummer) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Doremus Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:14 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: deleting an app from an iphone using vo How does one delete an unwanted app from iPhone with vo running? On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: I started my current Mac experience by borrowing a Mac Mini from a vendor who sold assistive technology for Windows. I wanted to prove that what they said about the mac was wrong, that they couldn't use it effectively as blind folks. I dumped my old pc and started use the Mac full time from the beginning and i haven't looked back since. True i have a virtual machine but that's mostly for playing audio games that are not available on the Mac yet. I do not miss the single key keystrokes much and i'm so glad i got rid of that virtual buffer and all the other ways windows screen reading software spoon feeds us. /Krister 12 feb 2010 kl. 09.13 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: > Hi, > > I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. I found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window Eyes first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you could do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but the issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode which I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have to exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with VoiceOver you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate commands. That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's still an extra keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to exit it one way or the other. > > Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much effort. I can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll just use the right shift key. > > You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different operating system. I can't stress that enough. > > Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on the Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you know you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased solutions and just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that because that worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an insult to any new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to understand why people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the operating system or the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, since it's mostly people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, at least, people who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open to the idea of using a Mac. > > Regards, > Nic > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > >> Mary, >> >> What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading may not be as simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still exists, even if you have to hold some additional keys down. In the end you use what works best for you. YOu say browsing using IE on windows is more efficient for you and that is great, but for me I have found ways of becoming very efficient using VO and Safari. In fact I prefer in nearly all cases now, using VO and Safari. There was a time I may have agreed with you, but as I really became comfortable with VO
Fix for Sound Related Slowness on MBP
Hi, A number of us have been complaining about various slowness problems. This may be the fix: http://accesstechnews.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/apple-offers-fix-for-audio-related-mac-pro-performance-issue/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter. cdh -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: Fix for Sound Related Slowness on MBP
They seem to only mention the Mac Pro. > From: c...@hofstader.com > Subject: Fix for Sound Related Slowness on MBP > Date: Fri, 12 Feb 2010 10:11:43 -0500 > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com; macvoiceo...@freelists.org > > Hi, > > A number of us have been complaining about various slowness problems. This > may be the fix: > http://accesstechnews.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/apple-offers-fix-for-audio-related-mac-pro-performance-issue/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter. > > cdh > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Open Office 3.2 released
Didn't notice much as far as changes in accessibility but according to their bug system a few VO-related crashes have been fixed. English download here: http://download.services.openoffice.org/files/stable/3.2.0/OOo_3.2.0_MacOSXIntel_install_en-US.dmg Other languages and platforms here: http://download.openoffice.org/other.html CB constantlyvaria...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, On 10 Feb., 12:58, Les Kriegler wrote: I purchased iWork 09 for around $60 and am happy with its functionality. That sounds promising. I did some basic testing but for example couldn't figure out how to create and read tables. Can you recommend some documentation on iWork accessibility? Best regards, Felix Grützmacher -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Fix for Sound Related Slowness on MBP
Maybe it's time to finally make the jump to 10.6. Was waiting for the dust to settle a bit before diving in. These kinds of things motivate me to actually dive in. CB Chris Hofstader wrote: Hi, A number of us have been complaining about various slowness problems. This may be the fix: http://accesstechnews.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/apple-offers-fix-for-audio-related-mac-pro-performance-issue/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter. cdh -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: possible voiceover possibilities for office for mac 2011???
Google translation here: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clubic.com%2Factualite-324878-office-mac-microsoft-2011.html&sl=auto&tl=en CB Philippe Brun wrote: Hi James, This article on the french Clubic IT website : http://www.clubic.com/actualite-324878-office-mac-microsoft-2011.html Regardes Philippe Le 12 févr. 2010 à 12:43, James & Nash a écrit : Hi Philippe, Which blog was this please? Thanks TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny On 12 Feb 2010, at 05:50, Philippe Brun wrote: Hi all, I read on a french Mac blog that MS rewrite Office with Cocoa. So just wait and see ! Philippe Le 12 févr. 2010 à 05:07, E.J. Zufelt a écrit : Good evening Scott, My speculation is that Microsoft Office 2011 will not be accessible with VoiceOver. I cannot imagine that Office was developed with native Cocoa user interface components. As a matter of fact for some user interface components (the ribbon) Microsoft would have to create their own custom classes. I cannot imagine that Microsoft would have put the time into ensuring that these classes were accessible. I hope to be shown to be wrong. HTH, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt On 2010-02-11, at 11:02 PM, Scott Ballard-RidleyScott Ridley wrote: hi all I have just read on the mac world website that microsoft has announced the launch of office for mac 2011. Could this be the answer to our prayers by finally being accessible to voiceover users? Does anyone have the inside line on this? Keep your fingers crossed. Scott -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: skype and beginner guides
Hi all! I do mine a little differently. I press command-4 to bring up the history window and go from there. It seems to save a couple of keystrokes. Good that there are so many ways to do things on the mac. Jim On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:47 AM, James & Nash wrote: > Hi Everett > On 12 Feb 2010, at 13:49, E.J. Zufelt wrote: >> I'll add a Skype question to this thread. Is it possible to check skype >> voicemail with VoiceOver? If someone can give directions that'd be greatly >> appreciated. > > To listen to Voice Mail with Voice Over, select the "Call list" option in the > "Call" menu. This will bring up a list of recent calls. Find the Voice mail > from the list and press VO + Shift + M. The first option should be listen. > Press enter and you can then listen to your heart's content. > > HTH > TC > James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny - Find me on facebook or: Skype: jimintexas Yahoo or Aim/Ichat: jgatteys Msn: jgatt...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: skype and beginner guides
Hi Jim, Thanks for this, I didn't know that you could get to the call list window this way. TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny On 12 Feb 2010, at 16:10, Jim Gatteys wrote: > Hi all! > I do mine a little differently. I press command-4 to bring up the history > window and go from there. It seems to save a couple of keystrokes. Good > that there are so many ways to do things on the mac. > Jim > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:47 AM, James & Nash wrote: > >> Hi Everett >> On 12 Feb 2010, at 13:49, E.J. Zufelt wrote: >>> I'll add a Skype question to this thread. Is it possible to check skype >>> voicemail with VoiceOver? If someone can give directions that'd be greatly >>> appreciated. >> >> To listen to Voice Mail with Voice Over, select the "Call list" option in >> the "Call" menu. This will bring up a list of recent calls. Find the Voice >> mail from the list and press VO + Shift + M. The first option should be >> listen. Press enter and you can then listen to your heart's content. >> >> HTH >> TC >> James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny > > - > Find me on facebook or: > Skype: jimintexas > Yahoo or Aim/Ichat: jgatteys > Msn: jgatt...@gmail.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Using iChat with facebook Chat
You can also easily do it from Adium http://www.ofzenandcomputing.com/zanswers/1231 and the new beta of AIM for mac now has Facebook support baked in: http://products.aim.com/beta I haven't tried it yet but AOL announced this week bi-directional support for AIM on Facebook so in theory you can chat with folks in either ecosystem via their client (which is pretty accessible with VO). CB Brett Campbell wrote: Do you know that it's possible to use iChat for facebook chat? I didn't. Below is a link leading to instructions for setting it up. It's quite simple, and it works. In case you're a little slow on the draw like myself, when the instruction in step 4 tells you to enter your user account name, it is not the email address used to log in, if that's the method you use. You need to have created your facebook user name. For example my user name is brettc3. I don't recall whether the user name is created in settings or profile. The user name makes it easier for people that know it, to go to your page directly via URL. Anyway, if Adium isn't your thing, here is another option. http://iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=7626 Brett C. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi Eric, I've mostly been using a combo of the quick nav and the keypad to avoid using the many-key keystrokes. But the heading one is one that, for some reason, I keep using the multi-keys. Maybe its a function of too many choices. Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Is there enough VO support in I Work to justify the cost
Listers, I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of I Work, but before doing so is there enough VO support to justify the purchase? Thanks, -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hello. You have some good points, but I just want to point out something. You said that windows screen readers can use hot keys to move around the web page because there is a forms mode. I just want to point out that System Access uses hot keys such as e to go to an edit box, but there is no forms mode for System Access. The way System Access works is, that if you are in an edit box, any letter one types is entered into the edit box. If the user isn't on any form, letters such as e and h act as hot keys, so one can type the letter e to go to the next edit box. On Feb 12, 2010, at 3:13 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > Hi, > > I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. I > found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window Eyes > first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you could > do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to > efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among > others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is > probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but the > issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode which > I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have to > exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with VoiceOver > you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate commands. > That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's still an extra > keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to exit it one way > or the other. > > Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much effort. I > can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll just use the > right shift key. > > You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality > existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different > operating system. I can't stress that enough. > > Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on the > Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you know > you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in > navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased solutions and > just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that because that > worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an insult to any > new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to understand why > people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the operating system or > the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, since it's mostly > people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, at least, people > who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open to the idea of using > a Mac. > > Regards, > Nic > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > >> Mary, >> >> What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading may not be >> as simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still exists, even if >> you have to hold some additional keys down. In the end you use what works >> best for you. YOu say browsing using IE on windows is more efficient for you >> and that is great, but for me I have found ways of becoming very efficient >> using VO and Safari. In fact I prefer in nearly all cases now, using VO and >> Safari. There was a time I may have agreed with you, but as I really became >> comfortable with VO and the entire Mac experience, I really have no use for >> windows or windows-based screen readers. Well the only reason I use windows >> personally is for some courses I am taking that use news groups and so far >> outlook express is the only choice I have found thus far and since most the >> materials have to be produced using Word, I have to drag that out. >> Otherwise, I honestly do find the Mac works well for me. Again, you use what >> works for you because being efficient and productive is most important. >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >> >>> Hi Scott, >>> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences >>> between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and >>> Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h >>> by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among >>> headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have >>> amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It >>> gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the >>> page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a >>> long shot. Are there other benefits,
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Hi, True enough, though that'd be the same as auto-forms mode. You'd still have to get System Access out of the form to navigate. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:44 PM, Ryan Mann wrote: > Hello. You have some good points, but I just want to point out something. > You said that windows screen readers can use hot keys to move around the web > page because there is a forms mode. I just want to point out that System > Access uses hot keys such as e to go to an edit box, but there is no forms > mode for System Access. The way System Access works is, that if you are in > an edit box, any letter one types is entered into the edit box. If the user > isn't on any form, letters such as e and h act as hot keys, so one can type > the letter e to go to the next edit box. > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 3:13 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. I >> found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window >> Eyes first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you >> could do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to >> efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among >> others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is >> probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but >> the issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode >> which I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have >> to exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with >> VoiceOver you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate >> commands. That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's >> still an extra keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to >> exit it one way or the other. >> >> Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much effort. >> I can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll just use >> the right shift key. >> >> You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality >> existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different >> operating system. I can't stress that enough. >> >> Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on >> the Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you >> know you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in >> navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased solutions and >> just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that because that >> worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an insult to any >> new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to understand why >> people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the operating system or >> the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, since it's mostly >> people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, at least, people >> who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open to the idea of >> using a Mac. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook Profile >> My Twitter >> >> On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >> >>> Mary, >>> >>> What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading may not be >>> as simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still exists, even if >>> you have to hold some additional keys down. In the end you use what works >>> best for you. YOu say browsing using IE on windows is more efficient for >>> you and that is great, but for me I have found ways of becoming very >>> efficient using VO and Safari. In fact I prefer in nearly all cases now, >>> using VO and Safari. There was a time I may have agreed with you, but as I >>> really became comfortable with VO and the entire Mac experience, I really >>> have no use for windows or windows-based screen readers. Well the only >>> reason I use windows personally is for some courses I am taking that use >>> news groups and so far outlook express is the only choice I have found thus >>> far and since most the materials have to be produced using Word, I have to >>> drag that out. Otherwise, I honestly do find the Mac works well for me. >>> Again, you use what works for you because being efficient and productive is >>> most important. >>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >>> Hi Scott, I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h by itself or pr
Re: Is there enough VO support in I Work to justify the cost
Hi, Well from what I have seen so far, the level of support seems to depend on what you are trying to do. Pages - This seems very accessible, except for the fact taht I cannot seem to use Styles with Voice Over. Every time I try to use a Headings style for example, I am unable to change the heading as VO reports that when I return to the "body" text the style has reverted to its default. Numbers - this seems to be the least accessible of the applications - at least in my opinion. I find it very confusing editing in Numbers, as Voice Over seems not to read the name of the row or column below the first row. At least, this is my experience. Keynote - I was very impressed with this application when I played with it. It seems to be just as accessible as Pages, but as my IWork copy is only a trial, i would need more time to explore it fully. Perhaps others on the list can give you a better idea if they have purchased it. TC James Lyn Nash & Twinny On 12 Feb 2010, at 19:21, VaShaun Jones wrote: > Listers, > > I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of I Work, but before doing so > is there enough VO support to justify the purchase? > > Thanks, > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Is there enough VO support in I Work to justify the cost
James, I wanted to add one more remark about pages accessibility. Comments are also inaccessible. So if you have a document where someone has inserted comments, you cannot see them in pages. John On Feb 12, 2010, at 3:15 PM, James & Nash wrote: > Hi, > > Well from what I have seen so far, the level of support seems to depend on > what you are trying to do. > > Pages - This seems very accessible, except for the fact taht I cannot seem to > use Styles with Voice Over. Every time I try to use a Headings style for > example, I am unable to change the heading as VO reports that when I return > to the "body" text the style has reverted to its default. > > Numbers - this seems to be the least accessible of the applications - at > least in my opinion. I find it very confusing editing in Numbers, as Voice > Over seems not to read the name of the row or column below the first row. At > least, this is my experience. > > Keynote - I was very impressed with this application when I played with it. > It seems to be just as accessible as Pages, but as my IWork copy is only a > trial, i would need more time to explore it fully. > > Perhaps others on the list can give you a better idea if they have purchased > it. > > TC > James Lyn Nash & Twinny > On 12 Feb 2010, at 19:21, VaShaun Jones wrote: > >> Listers, >> >> I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of I Work, but before doing >> so is there enough VO support to justify the purchase? >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Fix for Sound Related Slowness on MBP
the macbook pro wasn't listed there, also it seems to only mention 10.5.8 and seems to elude that sound problems are non-existant in Snow Leopard. Am I missing something?? I hope this fixes things, although, I've not experienced much slowness here with my mbp. On Feb 12, 2010, at 9:11 AM, Chris Hofstader wrote: > Hi, > > A number of us have been complaining about various slowness problems. This > may be the fix: > http://accesstechnews.wordpress.com/2010/02/12/apple-offers-fix-for-audio-related-mac-pro-performance-issue/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter. > > cdh > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates) Pete Nalda http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: irc client
I was using macirc, tried text-cht aqua but didn't like it. On 2010-02-12, at 9:21 AM, Brian Moore wrote: > HI all. Another question I could use some help with. Anyone found an irc > client that works well with vo. It may be possible to use ichat to connect > to an irc server but I haven't tried and my mac isn't available at the moment. > > thoughts would be appreciated. > thanks. > Brian. > > follow me on twitter: > > http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: irc client
I use Colliquy. It works well but sometimes receive the busy busy busy business from voiceover. A simple unload and reload of voiceover solves this issue. Never used to get it. Others may not have this issues. I like ti because it's got customizable sounds but I know some who don't like the app. Cody On Feb 12, 2010, at 4:35 PM, Kaare Dehard wrote: > I was using macirc, tried text-cht aqua but didn't like it. > On 2010-02-12, at 9:21 AM, Brian Moore wrote: > >> HI all. Another question I could use some help with. Anyone found an irc >> client that works well with vo. It may be possible to use ichat to connect >> to an irc server but I haven't tried and my mac isn't available at the >> moment. >> >> thoughts would be appreciated. >> thanks. >> Brian. >> >> follow me on twitter: >> >> http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Is there enough VO support in I Work to justify the cost
Hi, Both comments and styles work fine with vo and pages. There are a few hang-ups however. 1. Vo can't see bullets or numbers in auto bulleted or numbered lists. 2. You can't use vo to read or do any operations on in-line objects: objects embedded in the document. That being said however, you can read and use objects to a large degree if the are floating. In the later case, they are in the lay-out area. There ways to make an in-line object floating and there are indications that an object is present in a document because vo will say "hi-lited" hen you move the insertion point of it. 3. Templates seem totally unusable to me. Someone else might have a better handle on that but there seems to be things like text boxes with in-line text boxes. So it's not a nice situation for vo. As it stands, I think that document creation using vo is very doable. Due to the problems I mentioned however, I think that collaborative writing projects, or any situation where you will have to read a document that someone else did using Word, will be problematic. On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:21 PM, VaShaun Jones wrote: > Listers, > > I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of I Work, but before doing so > is there enough VO support to justify the purchase? > > Thanks, > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: deleting an app from an iPhone using vo
Mahalo to all the help with deleting app with vo. I don't use vo on the phone but my partner does. Any help I can give her makes using the iPhone more fun for her and married life easier on me. On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Joe Plummer wrote: > Hi, you can delete the app by doing this. Find the app you want to delete > and then double tap and hold this will put it in a edit mode. Then just > chose delete on that app. Now this will only work on app that you > installed. > Also the next time you go to sync make sure you uncheck this app under the > app tab or it will be put back on the phone. The other way is do it in > iTunes. You can do this by hooking your phone to your PC or Mac and in > iTunes go to your iPhone and look under the app tab and uncheck the app > that > you don't want on your phone any more. Then sync your iPhone. This should > remove this app from the phone. Now this will not un install it from the > computer. Hopes this helps. > > > Sign, > JP ( Joe Plummer) > joeplum...@tds.net > > -Original Message- > From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Doremus > Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:14 AM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: deleting an app from an iphone using vo > > How does one delete an unwanted app from iPhone with vo running? > > > On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Krister Ekstrom > wrote: > > >I started my current Mac experience by borrowing a Mac Mini from a > vendor who sold assistive technology for Windows. I wanted to prove that > what they said about the mac was wrong, that they couldn't use it > effectively as blind folks. I dumped my old pc and started use the Mac full > time from the beginning and i haven't looked back since. True i have a > virtual machine but that's mostly for playing audio games that are not > available on the Mac yet. I do not miss the single key keystrokes much and > i'm so glad i got rid of that virtual buffer and all the other ways windows > screen reading software spoon feeds us. >/Krister >12 feb 2010 kl. 09.13 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: > >> Hi, >> >> I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using > VoiceOver now. I found that, if you were loading absolutely massive > webpages, JAWS/Window Eyes first had to load all the contents into their > virtual buffer before you could do as much as navigate. I personally see > that as a huge drawback to efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, > not to mention NVDA among others take advantage of one-letter navigation > keys in HTML environments is probably because they have that drawback. > VoiceOVer might be able to, but the issue would be that, if you're in a > form > field, you'd need Forms mode which I'm so glad to get rid of. With a > Windows-based screenreader, you have to exit forms mode, then use H to go > to > the next heading, whereas with VoiceOver you can simply do it within the > field itself due to separate commands. That'll still slow you down, no > matter how fast you are. It's still an extra keystroke, regardless of > Auto-forms mode. You still have to exit it one way or the other. >> >> Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without > much effort. I can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke > I'll just use the right shift key. >> >> You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the > functionality existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely > different operating system. I can't stress that enough. >> >> Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all > time on the Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do > something you know you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really > get > efficient in navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased > solutions and just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that > because that worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an > insult to any new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to > understand why people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the > operating system or the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, > since it's mostly people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, > at least, people who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open > to > the idea of using a Mac. >> >> Regards, >> Nic >> Skype: Kvalme >> MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk >> AIM: cincinster >> yahoo Messenger: cin368 >> Facebook Profile >> My Twitter >> >> On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: >> >>> Mary, >>> >>> What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading > may not be as simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still > exis
Re: Is there enough VO support in I Work to justify the cost
John, I'm wondering what problems you have with reading comments. I've tried inserting them myself and can't see any problems. Are you referring to Word docs? Thanks. On Feb 12, 2010, at 2:52 PM, John J Herzog wrote: > James, > I wanted to add one more remark about pages accessibility. Comments are also > inaccessible. So if you have a document where someone has inserted comments, > you cannot see them in pages. > > John > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 3:15 PM, James & Nash wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Well from what I have seen so far, the level of support seems to depend on >> what you are trying to do. >> >> Pages - This seems very accessible, except for the fact taht I cannot seem >> to use Styles with Voice Over. Every time I try to use a Headings style for >> example, I am unable to change the heading as VO reports that when I return >> to the "body" text the style has reverted to its default. >> >> Numbers - this seems to be the least accessible of the applications - at >> least in my opinion. I find it very confusing editing in Numbers, as Voice >> Over seems not to read the name of the row or column below the first row. At >> least, this is my experience. >> >> Keynote - I was very impressed with this application when I played with it. >> It seems to be just as accessible as Pages, but as my IWork copy is only a >> trial, i would need more time to explore it fully. >> >> Perhaps others on the list can give you a better idea if they have purchased >> it. >> >> TC >> James Lyn Nash & Twinny >> On 12 Feb 2010, at 19:21, VaShaun Jones wrote: >> >>> Listers, >>> >>> I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of I Work, but before doing >>> so is there enough VO support to justify the purchase? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: further to locating radio streams in iTunes
I had loads that I wanted to delete at one go and there were all over the place. Plus, these weren't links from the radio directory. On 11 Feb 2010, at 04:00, carlene knight wrote: > HI: > > When I find a radio stream I want to ad to a play list I simply copy it and > paste it into the playlist. When I want to delete one, I simply highlight > it and press delete. It works great. Why A a smart playlist when you > probably want to manually choose your radio stream? Just curious. > > On Feb 4, 2010, at 10:43 AM, Daniel Rowe wrote: > >> Hi all. >> I'm subscribed to "Mac OS X hints" RSS feed and today they posted a great >> hint that is helpful for deleting radio streams you no longer listen to. >> I found that when I created a smart playlist of all the streams I imported I >> couldn't delete any of them from the library from there. So after that >> step, Carry out what they say on this page and you should find it easier to >> remove them. >> http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20100202160801725 >> Note, the page has no headings but there's an auto webspot at the start of >> the article. >> >> Hope this helps, >> >> Dannie >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > carlene knight > http://carleneknight.blogspot.com > ckni...@knight-toolworks.com > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
RE: deleting an app from an iPhone using vo
Hi, there is a email list especially for blind IPhone users. See link below to the site to let her sign up. Also I can give info on how to sign up with out a Google email if you think she would want it. See link below might have to copy and paste it in address bar. http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en Sign, JP ( Joe Plummer) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Doremus Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 5:00 PM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: deleting an app from an iPhone using vo Mahalo to all the help with deleting app with vo. I don't use vo on the phone but my partner does. Any help I can give her makes using the iPhone more fun for her and married life easier on me. On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 4:59 AM, Joe Plummer wrote: Hi, you can delete the app by doing this. Find the app you want to delete and then double tap and hold this will put it in a edit mode. Then just chose delete on that app. Now this will only work on app that you installed. Also the next time you go to sync make sure you uncheck this app under the app tab or it will be put back on the phone. The other way is do it in iTunes. You can do this by hooking your phone to your PC or Mac and in iTunes go to your iPhone and look under the app tab and uncheck the app that you don't want on your phone any more. Then sync your iPhone. This should remove this app from the phone. Now this will not un install it from the computer. Hopes this helps. Sign, JP ( Joe Plummer) joeplum...@tds.net -Original Message- From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionar...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Doremus Sent: Friday, February 12, 2010 6:14 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: deleting an app from an iphone using vo How does one delete an unwanted app from iPhone with vo running? On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Krister Ekstrom wrote: I started my current Mac experience by borrowing a Mac Mini from a vendor who sold assistive technology for Windows. I wanted to prove that what they said about the mac was wrong, that they couldn't use it effectively as blind folks. I dumped my old pc and started use the Mac full time from the beginning and i haven't looked back since. True i have a virtual machine but that's mostly for playing audio games that are not available on the Mac yet. I do not miss the single key keystrokes much and i'm so glad i got rid of that virtual buffer and all the other ways windows screen reading software spoon feeds us. /Krister 12 feb 2010 kl. 09.13 skrev Nicolai Svendsen: > Hi, > > I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. I found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window Eyes first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you could do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but the issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode which I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have to exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with VoiceOver you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate commands. That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's still an extra keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to exit it one way or the other. > > Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much effort. I can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll just use the right shift key. > > You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different operating system. I can't stress that enough. > > Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on the Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you know you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased so
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
I'd first like to encourage a calmer tone in this thread if I might. -If people are upset or worried about having switched, then that's fine. They're entitled to their feelings as we all are. Okay, *off my moderatrix soap box now* lol! Let me also suggest that one can use track pad commander to navigate headings and form elements? This way one need only do a gesture to move between said elements on a page. -No forms mode; no keystrokes and probably faster than Jaws or WindowEyes… It's simple, quick and only takes one hand. -Just a thought… -And thanks to those contributing helpful info for new users! -Y'all rock!…Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:13 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. I found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window Eyes first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you could do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but the issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode which I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have to exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with VoiceOver you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate commands. That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's still an extra keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to exit it one way or the other. Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much effort. I can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll just use the right shift key. You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different operating system. I can't stress that enough. Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on the Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you know you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased solutions and just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that because that worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an insult to any new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to understand why people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the operating system or the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, since it's mostly people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, at least, people who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open to the idea of using a Mac. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > Mary, > > What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading may not be as > simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still exists, even if you > have to hold some additional keys down. In the end you use what works best > for you. YOu say browsing using IE on windows is more efficient for you and > that is great, but for me I have found ways of becoming very efficient using > VO and Safari. In fact I prefer in nearly all cases now, using VO and Safari. > There was a time I may have agreed with you, but as I really became > comfortable with VO and the entire Mac experience, I really have no use for > windows or windows-based screen readers. Well the only reason I use windows > personally is for some courses I am taking that use news groups and so far > outlook express is the only choice I have found thus far and since most the > materials have to be produced using Word, I have to drag that out. Otherwise, > I honestly do find the Mac works well for me. Again, you use what works for > you because being efficient and productive is most important. > On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > >> Hi Scott, >> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences >> between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and >> Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h >> by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among >> headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have >> amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It >> gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the >> page in reverse order. Doable? y
IE vs Safari
Hi, Ok, I'm exploring with Alex on the MacBook Pro, and I want to enter a website address to go to, or to find. Can someone tell me the equivalent of pressing control L on this OS? TIA Carolyn ch:) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: IE vs Safari
You press command L to go to the address bar. On Feb 12, 2010, at 6:09 PM, ch...@q.com wrote: > Hi, > Ok, I'm exploring with Alex on the MacBook Pro, and I want to enter a website > address to go to, or to find. Can someone tell me the equivalent of pressing > control L on this OS? > > TIA > > Carolyn ch:) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: irc client
I've tried that app. Its' speech implementation is such that you almost don't need VO, as all channel text can be set to be spoken, also without the need for growl, but I didn't like that again, like in x-chat aqua, Zoom tracking didn't work in the input field. On Feb 12, 2010, at 3:43 PM, Cody Hurst wrote: > I use Colliquy. It works well but sometimes receive the busy busy busy > business from voiceover. A simple unload and reload of voiceover solves this > issue. Never used to get it. Others may not have this issues. I like ti > because it's got customizable sounds but I know some who don't like the app. > > Cody > On Feb 12, 2010, at 4:35 PM, Kaare Dehard wrote: > >> I was using macirc, tried text-cht aqua but didn't like it. >> On 2010-02-12, at 9:21 AM, Brian Moore wrote: >> >>> HI all. Another question I could use some help with. Anyone found an irc >>> client that works well with vo. It may be possible to use ichat to connect >>> to an irc server but I haven't tried and my mac isn't available at the >>> moment. >>> >>> thoughts would be appreciated. >>> thanks. >>> Brian. >>> >>> follow me on twitter: >>> >>> http://www.twitter.com/bmoore123 >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates) Pete Nalda http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Indeed, trackpad navigation using trackpad commander is the fastest navigation method I think I've ever tried. If i might add, also going through the tutorial a few times may help one to remember features as well. Just hang in there and be patient, it'll get more comfortable, and one can always go back if it's really more comfortable to them if need be. I myself didn't really have a problem with Windows XP, just had a problem with Zoomtext's upgrading costs. How's that for an open mind? On Feb 12, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Cara Quinn wrote: > I'd first like to encourage a calmer tone in this thread if I might. > -If people are upset or worried about having switched, then that's fine. > They're entitled to their feelings as we all are. > > Okay, *off my moderatrix soap box now* lol! > > Let me also suggest that one can use track pad commander to navigate > headings and form elements? > > This way one need only do a gesture to move between said elements on a page. > -No forms mode; no keystrokes and probably faster than Jaws or WindowEyes… > > It's simple, quick and only takes one hand. > > -Just a thought… -And thanks to those contributing helpful info for new > users! -Y'all rock!…Smiles, > > Cara :) > --- > View my Online Portfolio at: > > http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn > > Follow me on Twitter! > > https://twitter.com/ModelCara > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:13 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > > Hi, > > I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. I > found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window Eyes > first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you could > do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to > efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among > others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is > probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but the > issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode which > I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have to > exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with VoiceOver > you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate commands. > That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's still an extra > keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to exit it one way > or the other. > > Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much effort. I > can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll just use the > right shift key. > > You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality > existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different > operating system. I can't stress that enough. > > Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on the > Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you know > you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in > navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased solutions and > just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that because that > worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an insult to any > new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to understand why > people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the operating system or > the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, since it's mostly > people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, at least, people > who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open to the idea of using > a Mac. > > Regards, > Nic > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > >> Mary, >> >> What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading may not be >> as simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still exists, even if >> you have to hold some additional keys down. In the end you use what works >> best for you. YOu say browsing using IE on windows is more efficient for you >> and that is great, but for me I have found ways of becoming very efficient >> using VO and Safari. In fact I prefer in nearly all cases now, using VO and >> Safari. There was a time I may have agreed with you, but as I really became >> comfortable with VO and the entire Mac experience, I really have no use for >> windows or windows-based screen readers. Well the only reason I use windows >> personally is for some courses I am taking that use news groups and so far >> outlook express is the only choice I have found thus far and since most the >> materials have to be produced using Word, I have to drag that out. >> Otherwise, I honestly do find the Mac works well for me. Again, you use what >> wo
Re: Is there enough VO support in I Work to justify the cost
And I would point out that any concerns should be directed to Apple. THe more folks have to say about these issues, the more likely they get addressed sooner than later. I have been sending feedback to accessibil...@apple.com and via support as well. On Feb 12, 2010, at 4:43 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: > Hi, > > Both comments and styles work fine with vo and pages. There are a few > hang-ups however. > > 1. Vo can't see bullets or numbers in auto bulleted or numbered lists. > 2. You can't use vo to read or do any operations on in-line objects: objects > embedded in the document. That being said however, you can read and use > objects to a large degree if the are floating. In the later case, they are > in the lay-out area. There ways to make an in-line object floating and there > are indications that an object is present in a document because vo will say > "hi-lited" hen you move the insertion point of it. > 3. Templates seem totally unusable to me. Someone else might have a better > handle on that but there seems to be things like text boxes with in-line text > boxes. So it's not a nice situation for vo. > > As it stands, I think that document creation using vo is very doable. Due to > the problems I mentioned however, I think that collaborative writing > projects, or any situation where you will have to read a document that > someone else did using Word, will be problematic. > > > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:21 PM, VaShaun Jones wrote: > >> Listers, >> >> I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of I Work, but before doing >> so is there enough VO support to justify the purchase? >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
dvd player refusing to play dvd's?
hey guys the cd/dvd drive on my macbook has been doing some weird things lately. it'll play most cds and dvd's, but it's iffy on my glee road to sectionals box set. there are four dvd's in the set, the first 13 episodes of the show. sometimes they'll work, but most of the time they just spin and stop and spin and stop and finally the dvd player spits them out. they're not mounted to the finder and the mac doesn't seem to have any recognission that they're inserted except for the spinning and stopping before spitting out. I've tried cleaning the dvd's and it doesn't make a difference. does anyone know why it might be doing this? I hope there's nothing wrong with the drive! but I don't think so, cuz it works with other cd's! and sometimes with the glee ones too, just not all the time! it seems to have a mind of its own about when it wants to work! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Is there enough VO support in I Work to justify the cost
Really, well that sucks. You would think that Apple would ensure that their own products were 100% accessible wouldn't you? TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny On 12 Feb 2010, at 20:52, John J Herzog wrote: > James, > I wanted to add one more remark about pages accessibility. Comments are also > inaccessible. So if you have a document where someone has inserted comments, > you cannot see them in pages. > > John > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 3:15 PM, James & Nash wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Well from what I have seen so far, the level of support seems to depend on >> what you are trying to do. >> >> Pages - This seems very accessible, except for the fact taht I cannot seem >> to use Styles with Voice Over. Every time I try to use a Headings style for >> example, I am unable to change the heading as VO reports that when I return >> to the "body" text the style has reverted to its default. >> >> Numbers - this seems to be the least accessible of the applications - at >> least in my opinion. I find it very confusing editing in Numbers, as Voice >> Over seems not to read the name of the row or column below the first row. At >> least, this is my experience. >> >> Keynote - I was very impressed with this application when I played with it. >> It seems to be just as accessible as Pages, but as my IWork copy is only a >> trial, i would need more time to explore it fully. >> >> Perhaps others on the list can give you a better idea if they have purchased >> it. >> >> TC >> James Lyn Nash & Twinny >> On 12 Feb 2010, at 19:21, VaShaun Jones wrote: >> >>> Listers, >>> >>> I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of I Work, but before doing >>> so is there enough VO support to justify the purchase? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Is there enough VO support in I Work to justify the cost
Could you please provide instructions on using Styles and comments with VO? Thanks TC James Lyn Nash & Twinny On 12 Feb 2010, at 21:43, Barry Hadder wrote: > Hi, > > Both comments and styles work fine with vo and pages. There are a few > hang-ups however. > > 1. Vo can't see bullets or numbers in auto bulleted or numbered lists. > 2. You can't use vo to read or do any operations on in-line objects: objects > embedded in the document. That being said however, you can read and use > objects to a large degree if the are floating. In the later case, they are > in the lay-out area. There ways to make an in-line object floating and there > are indications that an object is present in a document because vo will say > "hi-lited" hen you move the insertion point of it. > 3. Templates seem totally unusable to me. Someone else might have a better > handle on that but there seems to be things like text boxes with in-line text > boxes. So it's not a nice situation for vo. > > As it stands, I think that document creation using vo is very doable. Due to > the problems I mentioned however, I think that collaborative writing > projects, or any situation where you will have to read a document that > someone else did using Word, will be problematic. > > > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:21 PM, VaShaun Jones wrote: > >> Listers, >> >> I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of I Work, but before doing >> so is there enough VO support to justify the purchase? >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
www.bingopalace.net--Not Accessible with VoiceOver or the Mac
Caution: Any of you who like to play Bingo online, there is a site called www.bingopalace.net, but it is not accessible with the Mac or VoiceOver. I tried downloading the software, which is similar to the software used in All-in-Play, only to find out there isn't a version for the Mac, as yet. I wrote to the powers-that-be to find out if they are going to release a Mac edition any time soon. I'm awaiting their response. Richie Gardenhire, Anchorage, Alaska. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Word Processing
Hi, The manuals for all 3 products are on the Apple website. I believe it's apple.com/iwork. All manuals are in pdf format, so you'll need either Preview or Skim to read them. Les -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Is there enough VO support in I Work to justify the cost
A subjective answer here, yes there is. It depends on what you wish to do. I've had experience with Pages and Numbers and overall, the accessibility is good. The issue with reading tables and the inherent problems have been chronicled here. But for around $60, I think it's worth it. Les -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: deleting an app from an iPhone using vo
On Feb 12, 2010, at 9:59 AM, Joe Plummer wrote: > Hi, you can delete the app by doing this. Find the app you want to delete > and then double tap and hold this will put it in a edit mode. Then just > chose delete on that app. Now this will only work on app that you installed. > Also the next time you go to sync make sure you uncheck this app under the > app tab or it will be put back on the phone. The other way is do it in > iTunes. You can do this by hooking your phone to your PC or Mac and in > iTunes go to your iPhone and look under the app tab and uncheck the app that > you don't want on your phone any more. Then sync your iPhone. This should > remove this app from the phone. Now this will not un install it from the > computer. This is not correct. When you delete an application from iTunes, you press the "Delete" key. You are asked if you want to remove the application from your computer. To delete the application from the phone, double-tap the application, and hold. VoiceOver will say, "Moving delete." Double-tap the application again. Double-tap "Delete." HTH Matt Roberts n9gmr...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: iPod Touch Voiceover Contacts(address book) question.
On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:42 PM, Pete Nalda wrote: > I was just thinking about this, How good is VoiceOver reading entries in the > Ipod touch address book? It works very well. The address book on the iPhone and iPod Touch is excellent. This is the only PDA I use. When you subscribe to MobileMe, you will only have to enter the data once. Street addresses and web sites can also be entered. Searching is very simple, and there are many different ways to find the data you are seeking. Matt Roberts n9gmr...@gmail.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: IE vs Safari
Hi, What I like about Safari is that when you start typing in an address that you've been to before, VO will reade it so typing entire addresses after the initial visit is not necessary. Les -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Is there enough VO support in I Work to justify the cost
James, 1. Move the vo cursor to the styles drore button which is just below the toolbar and vo-space. 2. Now move vo to the drore jest to the left of the toolbar and interact with it. 3. There are three types of styles. Interact with the styles table that you want and move vo to a style. 4. Route the mouse to vo and cntrl-mouse to get the context menu. 5. Find the hot-keys submenu and choose a hot key from f1 to f8. Now you can go back to the document body and type something. To apply the style, select it and hit your hot key. You can verify it work by moving vo over the text and hitting vo-t. As far as comments go, They seem to me to be strictly floating which means that they are in the lay-out area. I can interact and edit them with no problem. I've also found that if I lef-click a note, the insertion point is moved to the point in the document where I inserted it. On Feb 12, 2010, at 6:38 PM, James & Nash wrote: > Could you please provide instructions on using Styles and comments with VO? > Thanks > TC > James Lyn Nash & Twinny > On 12 Feb 2010, at 21:43, Barry Hadder wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> Both comments and styles work fine with vo and pages. There are a few >> hang-ups however. >> >> 1. Vo can't see bullets or numbers in auto bulleted or numbered lists. >> 2. You can't use vo to read or do any operations on in-line objects: >> objects embedded in the document. That being said however, you can read and >> use objects to a large degree if the are floating. In the later case, they >> are in the lay-out area. There ways to make an in-line object floating and >> there are indications that an object is present in a document because vo >> will say "hi-lited" hen you move the insertion point of it. >> 3. Templates seem totally unusable to me. Someone else might have a better >> handle on that but there seems to be things like text boxes with in-line >> text boxes. So it's not a nice situation for vo. >> >> As it stands, I think that document creation using vo is very doable. Due >> to the problems I mentioned however, I think that collaborative writing >> projects, or any situation where you will have to read a document that >> someone else did using Word, will be problematic. >> >> >> >> On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:21 PM, VaShaun Jones wrote: >> >>> Listers, >>> >>> I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of I Work, but before doing >>> so is there enough VO support to justify the purchase? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: iPod Touch Voiceover Contacts(address book) question.
Thanks! Good to hear! On Feb 12, 2010, at 7:57 PM, Matt Roberts wrote: > > On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:42 PM, Pete Nalda wrote: > >> I was just thinking about this, How good is VoiceOver reading entries in the >> Ipod touch address book? > > It works very well. The address book on the iPhone and iPod Touch is > excellent. This is the only PDA I use. When you subscribe to MobileMe, you > will only have to enter the data once. Street addresses and web sites can > also be entered. Searching is very simple, and there are many different ways > to find the data you are seeking. > > > > Matt Roberts n9gmr...@gmail.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > Egun On, Lagunak! (Basque for G'day, Mates) Pete Nalda http://www.myspace.com/musikonalda http://www.facebook.com/lpnalda -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: deleting an app from an iPhone using vo
Hello, He is not wrong at all. He said you can uncheck the app from iTunes then sync and it will remove the app from the phone and not delete it from your computer. This is 100% accurate. Some people will want to remove it from there phone but still have it stored away on there computer. On Feb 12, 2010, at 8:47 PM, Matt Roberts wrote: > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 9:59 AM, Joe Plummer wrote: > >> Hi, you can delete the app by doing this. Find the app you want to delete >> and then double tap and hold this will put it in a edit mode. Then just >> chose delete on that app. Now this will only work on app that you installed. >> Also the next time you go to sync make sure you uncheck this app under the >> app tab or it will be put back on the phone. The other way is do it in >> iTunes. You can do this by hooking your phone to your PC or Mac and in >> iTunes go to your iPhone and look under the app tab and uncheck the app that >> you don't want on your phone any more. Then sync your iPhone. This should >> remove this app from the phone. Now this will not un install it from the >> computer. > > This is not correct. When you delete an application from iTunes, you press > the "Delete" key. You are asked if you want to remove the application from > your computer. > To delete the application from the phone, double-tap the application, and > hold. VoiceOver will say, "Moving delete." Double-tap the application again. > Double-tap "Delete." > > HTH > > > > Matt Roberts n9gmr...@gmail.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: web/sweet spots (wasBlog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard)
Hi Donna, A sweet spot is a position on a web page you have designated voiceover to be on as soon as you go to the site. web spots are just key positions on a page that you have set or Voiceover has set automatically. Btw. VO command right bracket takes you forward through your manually set web spots, and VO command left bracket will navigate backwards. VO command N will cycle you through the auto webspots set by Voiceover. hth On Feb 12, 2010, at 9:03 AM, Donna Goodin wrote: > Hi all, > > This may be a dumb question, but is there a difference between web spots and > sweet spots? > TIA, > Donna > On Feb 12, 2010, at 6:00 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > >> I would also point out that if you use the Web Spot feature, it is quite >> accurate indeed. I have a sweet spot set for a number of locations on the >> banking website I use and it surely is the greatest thing for making >> navigation of a site efficient. I have it setup so as soon as the page >> loads, I'm on the location to enter my login info. Once I'm logged in, I am >> immediately on the list of accounts and on the balance information. If folks >> have not really explored the possibilities of Web/sweet spots, do yourself a >> favor and give them a try, they are very useful. >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 9:32 PM, Barry Hadder wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> If I may, I would like to point out that all navigation through elements on >>> a web page can be done with one hand and you don't need to remember a lot >>> of keys. When in dom. mode, press the left and right arrows at the same >>> time to enter quick nav mode. Now, press the left-up or right-up to cycle >>> through the navigation items in the roter. Then, navigate through the >>> chosen element with the up or down keys. >>> >>> As far as returning to the prior place in a web page, I have not found it >>> to be non existent. There are many times that it works, although, I would >>> like to see it work more consistently. I haven't found any screen reader >>> do it very well. >>> >>> I would also like to say that I never found any of the vo key strokes to be >>> difficult and I never understood why some people seemed to have such a >>> hang-up with them. There are some circumstances where one might need to >>> perform a task with only one hand, and I think that it was some what of a >>> legitimate concern earlier on. As I pointed out however, that issue has >>> been addressed with quick nav. >>> >>> >>> On Feb 11, 2010, at 6:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >>> Hi Scott, I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a long shot. Are there other benefits, such as not having to go in and out of forms mode? for sure. The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow Leopard is one of the main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really appreciate the numpad commander, although learning it was not as intuitive as learning mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as efficient for me as having that array of single letter keystrokes that let me move among various web elements at will. Another thing I hope can be implemented in the future is a means of letting focus return to where it was when you return back to a previously visited page. That's a big time saver with the Windows screen readers, although it doesn't always work. Its nonexistent with vo. I like the fact that pages seem to load faster with Safari than they do with IE and a screen reader. Over all, for me, the Windows experience is still more efficient. But there are pluses with the Mac, and I'm hoping it will keep improving. Group mode is something I have tried and dropped. I just never found a page where it seemed to offer any advantage, since I don't really care how the page is laid out. I want info and where it is on the page just doesn't seem very important to me, so long as I can get to it efficiently. Maybe I don't go to the right sites where group mode's benefits are displayed to best advantage. Mary -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@go
OpenOffice Writer 3.2
Good evening, Curious if anyone on the list uses OpenOffice Writer 3.2 I tried it out today and it seems to me that the document area is composed of a text field for each line of the document. It seems to be so poorly designed as to be not ueful. However, I might be missing something, and would love to know if anyone actually has found a way to make OO Write useful with VO. Thanks in advance, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Twitter clients
Good evening, I have been using Syrinx for quite some time as my sole Twitter client. I love everything except for one thing about it, using version 2.3.1. When you interact with an individual tweet in the timeline you cannot properly navigate by word. VO reads parts of words, or multiple parts of words at a time, not a single word. 1. Does anyone know how to correct this behavior in Syrinx? 2. Can anyone recommend another accessible Twitter client, providing some reasons for the recommendation? Thanks in advance, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
printing from hardware overview
Hi List, I've got my printer connected, but I can't figureout how to print off my hardware overview page in about this mac? What is the print command or is it a print screen command. Thanks for any help. Simon -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Drupal 7 accessibility needs your help. It only takes 2 minutes
Good evening, I spent a lot of time this summer working on Drupal accessibility. The Drupal community could use some help in squashing a bug. If you use VoiceOver and have 2 minutes to spare please visit http://zufelt.ca/article/Testing_Drupal_7_style_element-invisible All that is required is to read a short blog post, to answer a question, and to let me know your OS X and Safari versions. Thank you in advance for your help, Everett Follow me on Twitter http://twitter.com/ezufelt View my LinkedIn Profile http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Word Processing
Open Office seems to be feature ritch, seem to be having a problem right now though where it says edit box when it's supposed to say new line and backspacing is kinda weird. On Feb 9, 2010, at 9:57 PM, E.J. Zufelt wrote: > Good evening, > > It's been a long time since I've been subscribed to this list. I just > upgraded to Snow Leopard and I am wondering what the most accessible free > full featured word processor is for Snow Leopard? > > Thanks, > Everett > > Follow me on Twitter > http://twitter.com/ezufelt > > View my LinkedIn Profile > http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: OpenOffice Writer 3.2
Yeah, I've noticed this too and would love to fix it ASA{.
On Feb 13, 2010, at 12:37 AM, E.J. Zufelt wrote:
> Good evening,
>
> Curious if anyone on the list uses OpenOffice Writer 3.2
>
> I tried it out today and it seems to me that the document area is composed of
> a text field for each line of the document. It seems to be so poorly
> designed as to be not ueful. However, I might be missing something, and
> would love to know if anyone actually has found a way to make OO Write useful
> with VO.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Everett
>
> Follow me on Twitter
> http://twitter.com/ezufelt
>
> View my LinkedIn Profile
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "MacVisionaries" group.
> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"MacVisionaries" group.
To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
Re: Blog post: First Glance at Firefox Accessibility on OS X Snow Leopard
Well, the thing I really hate with the recent versions of jaws is that they add features that shouldn't be in a screen reader. Like that lookup feature. I can look something up on the Mac; it's not part of VOiceOver. On Feb 12, 2010, at 3:13 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: > Hi, > > I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. I > found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window Eyes > first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you could > do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to > efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among > others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is > probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but the > issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode which > I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have to > exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with VoiceOver > you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate commands. > That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's still an extra > keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to exit it one way > or the other. > > Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much effort. I > can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll just use the > right shift key. > > You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality > existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different > operating system. I can't stress that enough. > > Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on the > Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you know > you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in > navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased solutions and > just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that because that > worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an insult to any > new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to understand why > people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the operating system or > the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, since it's mostly > people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, at least, people > who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open to the idea of using > a Mac. > > Regards, > Nic > Skype: Kvalme > MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk > AIM: cincinster > yahoo Messenger: cin368 > Facebook Profile > My Twitter > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > >> Mary, >> >> What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading may not be >> as simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still exists, even if >> you have to hold some additional keys down. In the end you use what works >> best for you. YOu say browsing using IE on windows is more efficient for you >> and that is great, but for me I have found ways of becoming very efficient >> using VO and Safari. In fact I prefer in nearly all cases now, using VO and >> Safari. There was a time I may have agreed with you, but as I really became >> comfortable with VO and the entire Mac experience, I really have no use for >> windows or windows-based screen readers. Well the only reason I use windows >> personally is for some courses I am taking that use news groups and so far >> outlook express is the only choice I have found thus far and since most the >> materials have to be produced using Word, I have to drag that out. >> Otherwise, I honestly do find the Mac works well for me. Again, you use what >> works for you because being efficient and productive is most important. >> On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: >> >>> Hi Scott, >>> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences >>> between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and >>> Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h >>> by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among >>> headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have >>> amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It >>> gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the >>> page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a >>> long shot. Are there other benefits, such as not having to go in and out of >>> forms mode? for sure. The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow >>> Leopard is one of the main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really >>> appreciate the numpad commander, although learning it was not as intuitive >>> as learning mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as >>> efficie
Re: Is there enough VO support in I Work to justify the cost
Hi Barry, Thank you for the info. Now that I know how to do this, Pages should be more valuable. TC James, Lyn, Nash & Twinny On 13 Feb 2010, at 03:30, Barry Hadder wrote: > James, > > 1. Move the vo cursor to the styles drore button which is just below the > toolbar and vo-space. > > 2. Now move vo to the drore jest to the left of the toolbar and interact > with it. > > 3. There are three types of styles. Interact with the styles table that you > want and move vo to a style. > > 4. Route the mouse to vo and cntrl-mouse to get the context menu. > > 5. Find the hot-keys submenu and choose a hot key from f1 to f8. > > Now you can go back to the document body and type something. To apply the > style, select it and hit your hot key. You can verify it work by moving vo > over the text and hitting vo-t. > > As far as comments go, They seem to me to be strictly floating which means > that they are in the lay-out area. I can interact and edit them with no > problem. I've also found that if I lef-click a note, the insertion point is > moved to the point in the document where I inserted it. > > On Feb 12, 2010, at 6:38 PM, James & Nash wrote: > >> Could you please provide instructions on using Styles and comments with VO? >> Thanks >> TC >> James Lyn Nash & Twinny >> On 12 Feb 2010, at 21:43, Barry Hadder wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> Both comments and styles work fine with vo and pages. There are a few >>> hang-ups however. >>> >>> 1. Vo can't see bullets or numbers in auto bulleted or numbered lists. >>> 2. You can't use vo to read or do any operations on in-line objects: >>> objects embedded in the document. That being said however, you can read >>> and use objects to a large degree if the are floating. In the later case, >>> they are in the lay-out area. There ways to make an in-line object >>> floating and there are indications that an object is present in a document >>> because vo will say "hi-lited" hen you move the insertion point of it. >>> 3. Templates seem totally unusable to me. Someone else might have a >>> better handle on that but there seems to be things like text boxes with >>> in-line text boxes. So it's not a nice situation for vo. >>> >>> As it stands, I think that document creation using vo is very doable. Due >>> to the problems I mentioned however, I think that collaborative writing >>> projects, or any situation where you will have to read a document that >>> someone else did using Word, will be problematic. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:21 PM, VaShaun Jones wrote: >>> Listers, I am thinking of purchasing the latest version of I Work, but before doing so is there enough VO support to justify the purchase? Thanks, -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> For more options, visit this group at >>> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
how do I reset my time zone?
IN the process of exploring my clock settings, I accidently switch my time zone to West then Centeral Africa, and now, I can't put it back. Is there any VO key sequence that I can use to manipulate the world map so I can reset my time zone correctly? I think I've tried pretty much everything. Thanks. HEEELP!!! Sincerely, The Constantly Barefooted Ray!!! E-Mail: rforetjr at comcast dot net Skype: barefootedray -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
