I'd first like to encourage a calmer tone in this thread if I might. <smile> -If people are upset or worried about having switched, then that's fine. They're entitled to their feelings as we all are.
Okay, *off my moderatrix soap box now* lol! Let me also suggest that one can use track pad commander to navigate headings and form elements? This way one need only do a gesture to move between said elements on a page. -No forms mode; no keystrokes and probably faster than Jaws or WindowEyes… It's simple, quick and only takes one hand. -Just a thought… -And thanks to those contributing helpful info for new users! -Y'all rock!…Smiles, Cara :) --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On Feb 12, 2010, at 12:13 AM, Nicolai Svendsen wrote: Hi, I use VoiceOver the most, and I'm way more efficient using VoiceOver now. I found that, if you were loading absolutely massive webpages, JAWS/Window Eyes first had to load all the contents into their virtual buffer before you could do as much as navigate. I personally see that as a huge drawback to efficiency. The only reason JAWS or Window-Eyes, not to mention NVDA among others take advantage of one-letter navigation keys in HTML environments is probably because they have that drawback. VoiceOVer might be able to, but the issue would be that, if you're in a form field, you'd need Forms mode which I'm so glad to get rid of. With a Windows-based screenreader, you have to exit forms mode, then use H to go to the next heading, whereas with VoiceOver you can simply do it within the field itself due to separate commands. That'll still slow you down, no matter how fast you are. It's still an extra keystroke, regardless of Auto-forms mode. You still have to exit it one way or the other. Just as a note, I can actually hit VO-H with one hand without much effort. I can't hit VO-Shift-H, but if I have to use that keystroke I'll just use the right shift key. You knew what you were getting into, though. You knew the functionality existed, but it's bound to be different as it's an entirely different operating system. I can't stress that enough. Suggestion: Dump your Windows computer in the trash and spend all time on the Mac. You always have virtual machines if you need to do something you know you can only do on Windows, but the way you'll really get efficient in navigation with VoiceOver is to get rid of all Window-sbased solutions and just suck it up when something is a bit different. I say that because that worked for me, and it's the best thing I ever did. It's not an insult to any new switchers, just something to consider. I yet have to understand why people buy Macbook Pros if they might not even like the operating system or the screenreader. Just something I've been wondering, since it's mostly people who have never used Macs who seem to buy them. Or, at least, people who hardly have used Macs or even people who aren't open to the idea of using a Mac. Regards, Nic Skype: Kvalme MSN Messenger: nico...@home3.gvdnet.dk AIM: cincinster yahoo Messenger: cin368 Facebook Profile My Twitter On Feb 12, 2010, at 1:38 AM, Scott Howell wrote: > Mary, > > What I was pointing out is that jumping from heading to heading may not be as > simple as just pressing h, but the functionality still exists, even if you > have to hold some additional keys down. In the end you use what works best > for you. YOu say browsing using IE on windows is more efficient for you and > that is great, but for me I have found ways of becoming very efficient using > VO and Safari. In fact I prefer in nearly all cases now, using VO and Safari. > There was a time I may have agreed with you, but as I really became > comfortable with VO and the entire Mac experience, I really have no use for > windows or windows-based screen readers. Well the only reason I use windows > personally is for some courses I am taking that use news groups and so far > outlook express is the only choice I have found thus far and since most the > materials have to be produced using Word, I have to drag that out. Otherwise, > I honestly do find the Mac works well for me. Again, you use what works for > you because being efficient and productive is most important. > On Feb 11, 2010, at 7:23 PM, Mary Otten wrote: > >> Hi Scott, >> I'm not Linda, but I had to respond to your note to her re the differences >> between moving around on a page among elements with Window Eyes or Jaws and >> Voice Over. You said that you didn't see much difference between pressing h >> by itself or pressing 3 additional keys in addition to h to move among >> headers. And you say this is easily done with one hand? You must have >> amazing hands. I can no way do that. I've been touch typing for decades. It >> gets even more interesting when you add the shift into the mix to go up the >> page in reverse order. Doable? yes? As easy as pressing one key? Not by a >> long shot. Are there other benefits, such as not having to go in and out of >> forms mode? for sure. The added functionality for VO on the web in Snow >> Leopard is one of the main reasons I decided to try a Mac. I really >> appreciate the numpad commander, although learning it was not as intuitive >> as learning mnemonics on the regular keyboard. In no way is the rotor as >> efficient for me as having that array of single letter keystrokes that let >> me move among various web elements at will. Another thing I hope can be >> implemented in the future is a means of letting focus return to where it was >> when you return back to a previously visited page. That's a big time saver >> with the Windows screen readers, although it doesn't always work. Its >> nonexistent with vo. I like the fact that pages seem to load faster with >> Safari than they do with IE and a screen reader. Over all, for me, the >> Windows experience is still more efficient. But there are pluses with the >> Mac, and I'm hoping it will keep improving. Group mode is something I have >> tried and dropped. I just never found a page where it seemed to offer any >> advantage, since I don't really care how the page is laid out. I want info >> and where it is on the page just doesn't seem very important to me, so long >> as I can get to it efficiently. Maybe I don't go to the right sites where >> group mode's benefits are displayed to best advantage. >> >> Mary >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionar...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
