A GWAS scan that revealed a correlation for reading ability could be in a context that had a clear analog in monkeys or was already a known signature for more fundamental biology. Then an experiment is possible that may elaborate connection in a knowledge graph. Monkey becomes an astute observer, but higher probability of homicidal behavior, etc.
> On Sep 10, 2021, at 7:31 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Well, both the animal studies *and* those suffering from debilitating > conditions *fail* to cover the case for "reading ability". I'm sure some of > us would edit our genes in order to, say, make fat stacks of cash by > increasing our "entrepreneurial" tendency to take risks. But such studies > seem unlikely to get funded even from places like the Cato Institute. > >> On 9/10/21 7:21 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >> Much of the genome will be conserved across species, so animal models are >> one way to establish causation. Another way is with motivated audiences, >> people that will suffer without an intervention. They may still suffer >> (there is no causation) but at least with, say, gene therapy they have some >> agency. >> >>>> On Sep 10, 2021, at 7:07 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> No, I'm not trying to suggest that gen-phen relations are special, only >>> that the call to *write* segments previously shown through GWAS to be >>> predictive might demonstrate a lack of causality ... a necessary experiment >>> for the hypothesis that's ethically problematic. But more abstractly, as >>> we've discussed recently, optimization to exogenously defined, precise >>> objective functions can cause more problems than it solves. >>> >>>> On 9/10/21 6:30 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>> Guidance could have been to first vaccinate younger adults rather than >>>> older adults? That statistical regularity is predictive of infection and >>>> of death. Other statistical regularities are just correlations and the >>>> causality is not clear. Are you saying there is something special about >>>> genotype/phenotype relations? >>>> >>>>>> On Sep 10, 2021, at 3:26 AM, ⛧ glen <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I can't help but wonder if there's an analog of Goodhart's law lurking, >>>>> here. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On September 9, 2021 2:31:39 PM PDT, Marcus Daniels >>>>>> <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: >>>>>> Or they are reprogramming their people to be smarter! >>>>>> (Actually, deCODE is owned by Amgen now.) >>>>>> >>>>>> Selection is already occurring, so it isn't as if this is some sci-fi >>>>>> thing. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/ >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of David Eric Smith >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 2:12 PM >>>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >>>>>> <friam@redfish.com> >>>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur >>>>>> >>>>>> Aha! This is why Iceland has the highest per-capita fraction of >>>>>> published authors in the world. I had assumed it was the weather…. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2021, at 2:17 AM, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That can be screened as well with a large population-wide survey such >>>>>>> has been done in the UK or Iceland. >>>>>>> Of course, it is unlikely that complex behaviors will be governed by >>>>>>> isolated mutations, so the task is to look for highly predictive motifs >>>>>>> (e.g. regular expressions). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 10:12 AM >>>>>>> To: friam@redfish.com >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Ha! Now you're trolling. The answer is: "because the sites that >>>>>>> generate reading ability (or whatever) *also* generate other >>>>>>> 'abilities'", with "abilities" in scare quotes because many abilities >>>>>>> are considered bad ... like the ability of a pimply faced white dude to >>>>>>> shoot up a church or blow up a federal building. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In addition to polyphenism, there's robustness. If more than 1 site >>>>>>> generates the same functional ability (reading), then do we write them >>>>>>> all? ... just one of them? ... a probabilistically predictive handful >>>>>>> of them? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 9/9/21 10:00 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>>>>> So find the sites that correspond to reading ability, or whatever, and >>>>>>>> WRITE them. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 9:51 AM >>>>>>>> To: friam@redfish.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was alerted to this article this morning: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Can Progressives Be Convinced That Genetics Matters? >>>>>>>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/can-progressives-be-con >>>>>>>> v >>>>>>>> inced-that-genetics-matters >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It should delight those amongst us who rant about the "woke". 8^D But >>>>>>>> it dovetails nicely with the fraught concept of equality in the other >>>>>>>> thread. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Coincidentally, also on 9/6, the BIAPT announced their early career >>>>>>>> prize winner Emily McTernan: >>>>>>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.associationfo >>>>>>>> rpoliticalthought.ac.uk%2fbiapt-2021-early-care&c=E,1,Je9MVNdO8lpJQOd >>>>>>>> 6fZwUNe-4z5yuFq0upxNIzMBFjmLFh_h5a63ueVVpd8lkEdWeUx5Xx1RaoPg3T5Ph8YlG >>>>>>>> 0558qqHLZD8-DKeBPEC3YYM,&typo=1 >>>>>>>> er-prize-winner-dr-emily-mcternan/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> "In her forthcoming monograph, Dr McTernan develops her work on social >>>>>>>> equality further, to advance a pioneering conceptual account – and >>>>>>>> robust normative defence – of the phenomenon of ‘taking offence’. >>>>>>>> Therein, McTernan contends, we should understand taking offence, under >>>>>>>> appropriate conditions, as a civic virtue rather than a vice, as an >>>>>>>> emotion that embodies the resistance of social inequalities within a >>>>>>>> community." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/8/21 8:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>>>>>> From about a cancer rate of 10% (without mutation) to 50% (with) but >>>>>>>>> it depends on the BRCA variant. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_ca >>>>>>>>> n >>>>>>>>> c >>>>>>>>> er.htm >>>>>>>>> <https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_c >>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>> n >>>>>>>>> cer.htm> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Sep 8, 2021, at 4:07 PM, Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Is the Braca gene that little correlated with breast cancer? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> Frank C. Wimberly >>>>>>>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >>>>>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> 505 670-9918 >>>>>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021, 4:57 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yeah, it is hard to get excited about “unusual” variance. Modern >>>>>>>>>> classification algorithms like gradient boosting make it possible >>>>>>>>>> to predict phenotypes, and to me that is a lot more interesting >>>>>>>>>> (and still possible to deconstruct).____ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __ __ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles >>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 8, 2021 3:53 PM >>>>>>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >>>>>>>>>> <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> >>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] gen'fur____ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> __ __ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Gen'fur this, gen'fur that... and also the realities of biological >>>>>>>>>> complexity.... > > > -- > ☤>$ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/
