No, I'm not trying to suggest that gen-phen relations are special, only that the call to *write* segments previously shown through GWAS to be predictive might demonstrate a lack of causality ... a necessary experiment for the hypothesis that's ethically problematic. But more abstractly, as we've discussed recently, optimization to exogenously defined, precise objective functions can cause more problems than it solves.
On 9/10/21 6:30 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > Guidance could have been to first vaccinate younger adults rather than older > adults? That statistical regularity is predictive of infection and of > death. Other statistical regularities are just correlations and the > causality is not clear. Are you saying there is something special about > genotype/phenotype relations? > >> On Sep 10, 2021, at 3:26 AM, ⛧ glen <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I can't help but wonder if there's an analog of Goodhart's law lurking, >> here. >> >> >>> On September 9, 2021 2:31:39 PM PDT, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> >>> wrote: >>> Or they are reprogramming their people to be smarter! >>> (Actually, deCODE is owned by Amgen now.) >>> >>> Selection is already occurring, so it isn't as if this is some sci-fi thing. >>> >>> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/ >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of David Eric Smith >>> Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 2:12 PM >>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com> >>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur >>> >>> Aha! This is why Iceland has the highest per-capita fraction of published >>> authors in the world. I had assumed it was the weather…. >>> >>>>> On Sep 10, 2021, at 2:17 AM, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> That can be screened as well with a large population-wide survey such has >>>> been done in the UK or Iceland. >>>> Of course, it is unlikely that complex behaviors will be governed by >>>> isolated mutations, so the task is to look for highly predictive motifs >>>> (e.g. regular expressions). >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >>>> Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 10:12 AM >>>> To: friam@redfish.com >>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur >>>> >>>> Ha! Now you're trolling. The answer is: "because the sites that generate >>>> reading ability (or whatever) *also* generate other 'abilities'", with >>>> "abilities" in scare quotes because many abilities are considered bad ... >>>> like the ability of a pimply faced white dude to shoot up a church or blow >>>> up a federal building. >>>> >>>> In addition to polyphenism, there's robustness. If more than 1 site >>>> generates the same functional ability (reading), then do we write them >>>> all? ... just one of them? ... a probabilistically predictive handful of >>>> them? >>>> >>>> On 9/9/21 10:00 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>> So find the sites that correspond to reading ability, or whatever, and >>>>> WRITE them. >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 9:51 AM >>>>> To: friam@redfish.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur >>>>> >>>>> I was alerted to this article this morning: >>>>> >>>>> Can Progressives Be Convinced That Genetics Matters? >>>>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/can-progressives-be-con >>>>> v >>>>> inced-that-genetics-matters >>>>> >>>>> It should delight those amongst us who rant about the "woke". 8^D But it >>>>> dovetails nicely with the fraught concept of equality in the other thread. >>>>> >>>>> Coincidentally, also on 9/6, the BIAPT announced their early career prize >>>>> winner Emily McTernan: >>>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.associationfo >>>>> rpoliticalthought.ac.uk%2fbiapt-2021-early-care&c=E,1,Je9MVNdO8lpJQOd >>>>> 6fZwUNe-4z5yuFq0upxNIzMBFjmLFh_h5a63ueVVpd8lkEdWeUx5Xx1RaoPg3T5Ph8YlG >>>>> 0558qqHLZD8-DKeBPEC3YYM,&typo=1 >>>>> er-prize-winner-dr-emily-mcternan/ >>>>> >>>>> "In her forthcoming monograph, Dr McTernan develops her work on social >>>>> equality further, to advance a pioneering conceptual account – and robust >>>>> normative defence – of the phenomenon of ‘taking offence’. Therein, >>>>> McTernan contends, we should understand taking offence, under appropriate >>>>> conditions, as a civic virtue rather than a vice, as an emotion that >>>>> embodies the resistance of social inequalities within a community." >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 9/8/21 8:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>>> From about a cancer rate of 10% (without mutation) to 50% (with) but it >>>>>> depends on the BRCA variant. >>>>>> >>>>>> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_ca >>>>>> n >>>>>> c >>>>>> er.htm >>>>>> <https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_c >>>>>> a >>>>>> n >>>>>> cer.htm> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 8, 2021, at 4:07 PM, Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Is the Braca gene that little correlated with breast cancer? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> Frank C. Wimberly >>>>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 505 670-9918 >>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021, 4:57 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com >>>>>>> <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, it is hard to get excited about “unusual” variance. Modern >>>>>>> classification algorithms like gradient boosting make it possible >>>>>>> to predict phenotypes, and to me that is a lot more interesting >>>>>>> (and still possible to deconstruct).____ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __ __ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com >>>>>>> <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles >>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 8, 2021 3:53 PM >>>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >>>>>>> <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> >>>>>>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] gen'fur____ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> __ __ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Gen'fur this, gen'fur that... and also the realities of biological >>>>>>> complexity.... >>>>>>> ____ >>>> -- ☤>$ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . 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