😁 --- Frank C. Wimberly 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918 Santa Fe, NM On Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 1:22 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: > I should have known to hide the drugs from the addicts. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > Sent: Friday, September 10, 2021 12:16 PM > To: friam@redfish.com > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur > > It's your fault for focusing on reading ability instead of some less > subjective trait. Had you focused on, say, tool use < > https://ec.europa.eu/research-and-innovation/en/horizon-magazine/our-intelligent-ancestor-neanderthal> > or somesuch, then we may not have gone there. ... Aaaaa, who am I kidding? > We always go there. > > On 9/10/21 12:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > How did we get started on consciousness again? The thread started with > some snark about the power of GWAS associations.. > > > > > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> *On Behalf Of *Frank > > Wimberly > > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2021 11:56 AM > > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group > > <friam@redfish.com> > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur > > > > > > > > Wimberly's Conjecture: There is no correct, reductionist explanation of > consciousness. > > > > --- > > Frank C. Wimberly > > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > > > 505 670-9918 > > Santa Fe, NM > > > > > > > > On Fri, Sep 10, 2021, 11:44 AM uǝlƃ ☤>$ <geprope...@gmail.com <mailto: > geprope...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > It's no more profound than any other multi-order composition. It's > part of the work we have to do for mechanistic modeling of higher order > constructs. What galls me is that we can talk about it so much without > discussing the mechanisms of construction. > > > > The details of composing from genes, through physiological > structures, through interoception, to very high order attributes like > "reading ability" are interesting, regardless of any profundity. But some > of us need to be reminded of how the details build the narrative. Like > Magic Eye pictures, the Necker cube, or the lady/vase thing, what might > seem banal without the larger frame can seem profound when the discourse is > enlarged ... when it all snaps into place. > > > > > > On 9/10/21 10:25 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > > Fine, the goal is some composition of functions and it is all > interdependent. > > > > > > Sure. Of course. Why is this so profound to y’all? > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *thompnicks...@gmail.com > <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> > > > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2021 10:20 AM > > > *To:* 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group' < > friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur > > > > > > > > > > > > Which takes us back to thermostats, intentionality, intensional > inexistence, Sober’s epiphomenator, spandrels, and Lorenz’s law: The goal > is never the function. If you build a bird that measures competing male > robins in terms of “brown stick with red fluff” you eventually get an > ethologist who gets that bird to attack by providing only brown sticks with > red fluff. > > > > > > > > > > > > See. It’s all connected. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > > > > > Nick Thompson > > > > > > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com> <mailto: > thompnicks...@gmail.com <mailto:thompnicks...@gmail.com>> > > > > > > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ < > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/> < > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/ < > https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/>> > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com> <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com>>> *On Behalf Of *Steve Smith > > > *Sent:* Friday, September 10, 2021 12:30 PM > > > *To:* friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> <mailto: > friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > > > *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur > > > > > > > > > > > > Sometimes all you need is a good aphorism > > > > > > https://sketchplanations.com/goodharts-law < > https://sketchplanations.com/goodharts-law> < > https://sketchplanations.com/goodharts-law < > https://sketchplanations.com/goodharts-law>> > > > > > > or maybe boost it up with a cartoon > > > > > > https://sketchplanations.com/ <https://sketchplanations.com/> > <https://sketchplanations.com/ <https://sketchplanations.com/>> > > > > > > I can't help but wonder if there's an analog of Goodhart's law > lurking, here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On September 9, 2021 2:31:39 PM PDT, Marcus Daniels < > mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> <mailto: > mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: > > > > > > Or they are reprogramming their people to be smarter! > > > > > > (Actually, deCODE is owned by Amgen now.) > > > > > > > > > > > > Selection is already occurring, so it isn't as if this is > some sci-fi thing. > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/ > < > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/> > < > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/ > < > https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/ > >> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com>> <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On Behalf Of David Eric Smith > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 2:12 PM > > > > > > To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group < > friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> <mailto:friam@redfish.com > <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur > > > > > > > > > > > > Aha! This is why Iceland has the highest per-capita > fraction of published authors in the world. I had assumed it was the > weather…. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 10, 2021, at 2:17 AM, Marcus Daniels < > mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> <mailto: > mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > That can be screened as well with a large > population-wide survey such has been done in the UK or Iceland. > > > > > > Of course, it is unlikely that complex behaviors will > be governed by isolated mutations, so the task is to look for highly > predictive motifs (e.g. regular expressions). > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com>> <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 10:12 AM > > > > > > To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > <mailto:friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur > > > > > > > > > > > > Ha! Now you're trolling. The answer is: "because the > sites that generate reading ability (or whatever) *also* generate other > 'abilities'", with "abilities" in scare quotes because many abilities are > considered bad ... like the ability of a pimply faced white dude to shoot > up a church or blow up a federal building. > > > > > > > > > > > > In addition to polyphenism, there's robustness. If > more than 1 site generates the same functional ability (reading), then do > we write them all? ... just one of them? ... a probabilistically predictive > handful of them? > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/9/21 10:00 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > > > > > So find the sites that correspond to reading > ability, or whatever, and WRITE them. > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com>> <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com>> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 9:51 AM > > > > > > To: friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > <mailto:friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur > > > > > > > > > > > > I was alerted to this article this morning: > > > > > > > > > > > > Can Progressives Be Convinced That Genetics > Matters? > > > > > > > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/can-progressives-be-con < > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/can-progressives-be-con> < > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/can-progressives-be-con < > https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/can-progressives-be-con>> > > > > > > v > > > > > > inced-that-genetics-matters > > > > > > > > > > > > It should delight those amongst us who rant about > the "woke". 8^D But it dovetails nicely with the fraught concept of > equality in the other thread. > > > > > > > > > > > > Coincidentally, also on 9/6, the BIAPT announced > their early career prize winner Emily McTernan: > > > > > > > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.associationfo < > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.associationfo> < > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.associationfo < > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.associationfo>> > > > > > > rpoliticalthought.ac.uk < > http://rpoliticalthought.ac.uk > >%2fbiapt-2021-early-care&c=E,1,Je9MVNdO8lpJQOd > > > > > > > 6fZwUNe-4z5yuFq0upxNIzMBFjmLFh_h5a63ueVVpd8lkEdWeUx5Xx1RaoPg3T5Ph8YlG > > > > > > 0558qqHLZD8-DKeBPEC3YYM,&typo=1 > > > > > > er-prize-winner-dr-emily-mcternan/ > > > > > > > > > > > > "In her forthcoming monograph, Dr McTernan > develops her work on social equality further, to advance a pioneering > conceptual account – and robust normative defence – of the phenomenon of > ‘taking offence’. Therein, McTernan contends, we should understand taking > offence, under appropriate conditions, as a civic virtue rather than a > vice, as an emotion that embodies the resistance of social inequalities > within a community." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 9/8/21 8:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > > > > > > From about a cancer rate of 10% (without > mutation) to 50% (with) but it depends on the BRCA variant. > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_ca < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_ca> < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_ca < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_ca>> > > > > > > n > > > > > > c > > > > > > er.htm > > > > > > < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_c < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_c> < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm > < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm > >> > > > > > > a < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm > < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm > >> > > > > > > n < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm > < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm > >> > > > > > > cer.htm> < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm > < > https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_cancer.htm > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > On Sep 8, 2021, at 4:07 PM, Frank Wimberly > <wimber...@gmail.com <mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>> <mailto: > wimber...@gmail.com <mailto:wimber...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is the Braca gene that little correlated > with breast cancer? > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > Frank C. Wimberly > > > > > > 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, > > > > > > Santa Fe, NM 87505 > > > > > > > > > > > > 505 670-9918 > > > > > > Santa Fe, NM > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Sep 8, 2021, 4:57 PM Marcus > Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com> <mailto: > mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> <mailto: > mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> <mailto: > mar...@snoutfarm.com <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, it is hard to get excited about > “unusual” variance. Modern > > > > > > classification algorithms like gradient > boosting make it possible > > > > > > to predict phenotypes, and to me that is a > lot more interesting > > > > > > (and still possible to deconstruct).____ > > > > > > > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > *From:* Friam < > friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com> <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> <mailto: > friam-boun...@redfish.com <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>>> *On Behalf > Of *Eric Charles > > > > > > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 8, 2021 > 3:53 PM > > > > > > *To:* The Friday Morning Applied > Complexity Coffee Group <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com> > <mailto:friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> <mailto: > friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> <mailto:friam@redfish.com > <mailto:friam@redfish.com>>> > > > > > > *Subject:* [FRIAM] gen'fur____ > > > > > > > > > > > > __ __ > > > > > > > > > > > > Gen'fur this, gen'fur that... and also > the realities of biological complexity.... > > > -- > ☤>$ uǝlƃ > > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam un/subscribe > http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ > - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . > FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv > Zoom Fridays 9:30a-12p Mtn GMT-6 bit.ly/virtualfriam > un/subscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com > FRIAM-COMIC http://friam-comic.blogspot.com/ > archives: http://friam.471366.n2.nabble.com/ >
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