Excellent! So we're back to discussing inter-species mind-reading, the similarities between the cognition/emotion of animals with those of humans and the false dichotomy between [in|de]duction. And on that note, I gandered this article while not sleeping this morning:
The Hard Problem of Consciousness Has an Easy Part We Can Solve https://nautil.us/blog/the-hard-problem-of-consciousness-has-an-easy-part-we-can-solve On 9/10/21 7:52 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: > A GWAS scan that revealed a correlation for reading ability could be in a > context that had a clear analog in monkeys or was already a known signature > for more fundamental biology. Then an experiment is possible that may > elaborate connection in a knowledge graph. Monkey becomes an astute > observer, but higher probability of homicidal behavior, etc. > >> On Sep 10, 2021, at 7:31 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Well, both the animal studies *and* those suffering from debilitating >> conditions *fail* to cover the case for "reading ability". I'm sure some of >> us would edit our genes in order to, say, make fat stacks of cash by >> increasing our "entrepreneurial" tendency to take risks. But such studies >> seem unlikely to get funded even from places like the Cato Institute. >> >>> On 9/10/21 7:21 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>> Much of the genome will be conserved across species, so animal models are >>> one way to establish causation. Another way is with motivated audiences, >>> people that will suffer without an intervention. They may still suffer >>> (there is no causation) but at least with, say, gene therapy they have some >>> agency. >>> >>>>> On Sep 10, 2021, at 7:07 AM, uǝlƃ ☤>$ <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> No, I'm not trying to suggest that gen-phen relations are special, only >>>> that the call to *write* segments previously shown through GWAS to be >>>> predictive might demonstrate a lack of causality ... a necessary >>>> experiment for the hypothesis that's ethically problematic. But more >>>> abstractly, as we've discussed recently, optimization to exogenously >>>> defined, precise objective functions can cause more problems than it >>>> solves. >>>> >>>>> On 9/10/21 6:30 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>> Guidance could have been to first vaccinate younger adults rather than >>>>> older adults? That statistical regularity is predictive of infection >>>>> and of death. Other statistical regularities are just correlations and >>>>> the causality is not clear. Are you saying there is something special >>>>> about genotype/phenotype relations? >>>>> >>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2021, at 3:26 AM, ⛧ glen <geprope...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I can't help but wonder if there's an analog of Goodhart's law lurking, >>>>>> here. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On September 9, 2021 2:31:39 PM PDT, Marcus Daniels >>>>>>> <mar...@snoutfarm.com> wrote: >>>>>>> Or they are reprogramming their people to be smarter! >>>>>>> (Actually, deCODE is owned by Amgen now.) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Selection is already occurring, so it isn't as if this is some sci-fi >>>>>>> thing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2020/12/the-last-children-of-down-syndrome/616928/ >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of David Eric Smith >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 2:12 PM >>>>>>> To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >>>>>>> <friam@redfish.com> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Aha! This is why Iceland has the highest per-capita fraction of >>>>>>> published authors in the world. I had assumed it was the weather…. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Sep 10, 2021, at 2:17 AM, Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That can be screened as well with a large population-wide survey such >>>>>>>> has been done in the UK or Iceland. >>>>>>>> Of course, it is unlikely that complex behaviors will be governed by >>>>>>>> isolated mutations, so the task is to look for highly predictive >>>>>>>> motifs (e.g. regular expressions). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 10:12 AM >>>>>>>> To: friam@redfish.com >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Ha! Now you're trolling. The answer is: "because the sites that >>>>>>>> generate reading ability (or whatever) *also* generate other >>>>>>>> 'abilities'", with "abilities" in scare quotes because many abilities >>>>>>>> are considered bad ... like the ability of a pimply faced white dude >>>>>>>> to shoot up a church or blow up a federal building. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In addition to polyphenism, there's robustness. If more than 1 site >>>>>>>> generates the same functional ability (reading), then do we write them >>>>>>>> all? ... just one of them? ... a probabilistically predictive handful >>>>>>>> of them? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 9/9/21 10:00 AM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>>>>>> So find the sites that correspond to reading ability, or whatever, >>>>>>>>> and WRITE them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com> On Behalf Of u?l? ?>$ >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 9, 2021 9:51 AM >>>>>>>>> To: friam@redfish.com >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gen'fur >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I was alerted to this article this morning: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Can Progressives Be Convinced That Genetics Matters? >>>>>>>>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/09/13/can-progressives-be-con >>>>>>>>> v >>>>>>>>> inced-that-genetics-matters >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It should delight those amongst us who rant about the "woke". 8^D But >>>>>>>>> it dovetails nicely with the fraught concept of equality in the other >>>>>>>>> thread. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Coincidentally, also on 9/6, the BIAPT announced their early career >>>>>>>>> prize winner Emily McTernan: >>>>>>>>> https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=https%3a%2f%2fwww.associationfo >>>>>>>>> rpoliticalthought.ac.uk%2fbiapt-2021-early-care&c=E,1,Je9MVNdO8lpJQOd >>>>>>>>> 6fZwUNe-4z5yuFq0upxNIzMBFjmLFh_h5a63ueVVpd8lkEdWeUx5Xx1RaoPg3T5Ph8YlG >>>>>>>>> 0558qqHLZD8-DKeBPEC3YYM,&typo=1 >>>>>>>>> er-prize-winner-dr-emily-mcternan/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> "In her forthcoming monograph, Dr McTernan develops her work on >>>>>>>>> social equality further, to advance a pioneering conceptual account – >>>>>>>>> and robust normative defence – of the phenomenon of ‘taking offence’. >>>>>>>>> Therein, McTernan contends, we should understand taking offence, >>>>>>>>> under appropriate conditions, as a civic virtue rather than a vice, >>>>>>>>> as an emotion that embodies the resistance of social inequalities >>>>>>>>> within a community." >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 9/8/21 8:06 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote: >>>>>>>>>> From about a cancer rate of 10% (without mutation) to 50% (with) but >>>>>>>>>> it depends on the BRCA variant. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_ca >>>>>>>>>> n >>>>>>>>>> c >>>>>>>>>> er.htm >>>>>>>>>> <https://www.cdc.gov/genomics/disease/breast_ovarian_cancer/breast_c >>>>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>>>> n >>>>>>>>>> cer.htm> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Sep 8, 2021, at 4:07 PM, Frank Wimberly <wimber...@gmail.com> >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Is the Braca gene that little correlated with breast cancer? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> Frank C. Wimberly >>>>>>>>>>> 140 Calle Ojo Feliz, >>>>>>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM 87505 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> 505 670-9918 >>>>>>>>>>> Santa Fe, NM >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021, 4:57 PM Marcus Daniels <mar...@snoutfarm.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:mar...@snoutfarm.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, it is hard to get excited about “unusual” variance. Modern >>>>>>>>>>> classification algorithms like gradient boosting make it possible >>>>>>>>>>> to predict phenotypes, and to me that is a lot more interesting >>>>>>>>>>> (and still possible to deconstruct).____ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __ __ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *From:* Friam <friam-boun...@redfish.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:friam-boun...@redfish.com>> *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles >>>>>>>>>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 8, 2021 3:53 PM >>>>>>>>>>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group >>>>>>>>>>> <friam@redfish.com <mailto:friam@redfish.com>> >>>>>>>>>>> *Subject:* [FRIAM] gen'fur____ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> __ __ >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Gen'fur this, gen'fur that... and also the realities of biological >>>>>>>>>>> complexity.... -- ☤>$ uǝlƃ - .... . -..-. . -. -.. -..-. .. ... -..-. .... . .-. . 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