@Terren. What thing ? On Tuesday, 7 January 2025 at 00:33:55 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote:
> I would venture that the common sense notion of existence means that a > thing that exists has been instantiated. > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 5:14 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> @Terren. What is the common-sense notion of existence ? >> >> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 20:00:52 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >> >>> We can just use the common-sense notion of existence. Given alternative >>> theories of reality, one in which consciousness is all that exists, and one >>> in which consciousness arises from a more fundamental ontology >>> (matter/energy), are you saying it's possible to prove that one of those is >>> true? >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 10:50 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> @Terren. I repeat: Define "to exist"! Otherwise, what are we even >>>> talking about ? Mumbo-jumbo ? >>>> >>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 17:47:49 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm not asking you to prove that nothing besides consciousness exists. >>>>> I'm waiting for you to admit that such a proof is impossible. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 10:42 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> @Terren. Prove what if we didn't even define our terms ? Define "to >>>>>> exist" and then ask me to prove that nothing else besides consciousness >>>>>> exists! >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 16:48:23 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm the one that raised this line of questioning about metaphysics >>>>>>> and proof, because you said you admit everything, and I'm challenging >>>>>>> that. >>>>>>> You are changing the subject. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 9:39 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @Terren. Why do you avoid the question ? I asked you a simple >>>>>>>> question: Define "to exist"! Otherwise, what are we even talking about >>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 16:27:06 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you're not aware of what you can and cannot prove, your logic >>>>>>>>> is going to be flawed, or worse, you will sound like a religious nut. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 9:19 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @Terren. Is not a matter of proving. Is a matter of you becoming >>>>>>>>>> conscious of consciousness. Is a matter of you properly >>>>>>>>>> understanding what >>>>>>>>>> the concepts involved mean. For example, in your understanding, what >>>>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>>>> "to exist" mean ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 16:17:57 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Believe it or not, I'm sympathetic to that kind of theory of >>>>>>>>>>> reality. It's not far from what I personally believe. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> But at the end of the day, you cannot prove it. Can you admit >>>>>>>>>>> that? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 9:13 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> @Terren. You don't understand what you are. You are God. Once >>>>>>>>>>>> you understand why you are God, you also understand why only you >>>>>>>>>>>> exists. It >>>>>>>>>>>> has to do with what "to exist" means. "To exists" means to have >>>>>>>>>>>> form/meaning/quality. As such, only qualia exist, because "qualia" >>>>>>>>>>>> is just >>>>>>>>>>>> a synonymous for "existence". And qualia are the way in which you >>>>>>>>>>>> as God >>>>>>>>>>>> understand yourself. That's what reality is: is the process >>>>>>>>>>>> through which >>>>>>>>>>>> God knows itself. As such, there can be nothing else. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 16:06:45 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I exist, consciousness exists. There's no question about that, >>>>>>>>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> What is unprovable is the claim "nothing else exists except >>>>>>>>>>>>> consciousness". >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 8:08 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Terren. So you're not sure if you exist ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 03:07:17 UTC+2 Terren Suydam >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The claim that "consciousness is all that exists" is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> metaphysics. You cannot prove that, but that doesn't stop you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> from saying >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things like "energy doesn't exist" as if it were a fact. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> The ultimate nature of reality is a mystery. I don't put >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> much stock in people who speak in certainties about such things. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 3:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Terren. What metaphysics ? Your existence is metaphysics ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or is a matter of obvious fact ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 19:18:21 UTC+2 Terren Suydam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prove that you admit everything. Admit that your assertion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that *consciousness is all that exists* is metaphysical - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it cannot be proved. The same is true of the claim that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> matter and energy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are all that exists. Both are metaphysical statements. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 12:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always admit everything. It seems to you that I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I keep saying "Consciousness is all there is". While >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that sentence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is true, so while that proves with 100% certainty that there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no matter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it still doesn't give the full details of consciousness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 18:21:13 UTC+2 Terren Suydam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that's the first time you've ever admitted you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't understand something fully. I recommend you keep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> going in that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> direction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 11:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also said: "if we were to understand consciousness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fully, then we will know for sure what to expect after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> death." As of today, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we don't understand consciousness fully. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 16:54:49 UTC+2 Terren >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you said this: "And in case we would expect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness, then we will even stop finding any cure for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cancer. We will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> celebrate cancer." So instead of celebrating cancer, why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not skip the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> painful parts? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 3:29:59 PM UTC-5 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where did I say that the next life will be better ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 22:09:01 UTC+2 Terren >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serious question - what's stopping you from killing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself and speeding up the transition to happiness? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 3:04 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything List <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm millionaire, why would I need a job ? Also, if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we were to understand consciousness fully, then we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> will know for sure what >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to expect after death. And in case we would expect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness, then we will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even stop finding any cure for cancer. We will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> celebrate cancer. All of our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current decisions are made based on incomplete >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge of the truth. As >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such, we make the decisions based on what we imagine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality to be, not on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what it actually is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:37:03 UTC+2 Alan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 12:30:07 PM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It depends what kind of person you are. If you are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a depressed person, curing you of cancer will not do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> any good. On the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contrary, if you would have died you would havd >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gotten a chance at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness in the next life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *You have to be right. Stop your BS, assuming you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know more than you actually do, or get a job, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jerkoff, but no more of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your stupidity. AG * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:06:51 UTC+2 Alan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 11:27:28 AM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just opened a topic a while back about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition of the word "useful" that you keep >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> abusing. Let's remind you: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Useful = whatever increases happiness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Useless = whatever doesn't increase happiness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My philosophy, I guarantee you 100%, increases >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness, so is useful. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting cured of cancer might still let you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depressed, so cancer cure is useless. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *You can't be very conscious and make such a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hugely stupid comment. Don't ya think that being >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cured of cancer is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> immensely happier than succumbing to it? AG* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 19:59:29 UTC+2 Alan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 10:44:42 AM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 9:53:59 AM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you expect you can properly fix a car if >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you don't know how it function ? You just do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guesswork, you give it a few >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kicks and maybe it starts. This is how present-day >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> science works given that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it doesn't work based on fundamentals, namely based >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> on the working of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consciousness. Sure, you can keep doing research this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way: kick it till it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works. And you might save a few lives. But if you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were start from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamentals, then you would know exactly what you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were doing and you will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> save 8 billion lives. Not that it would matter at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that point, given that at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that level of development we will manipulate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consciousness to such a degree >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we will not even need bodies anymore. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *About 60 years ago I met a fellow with your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophy, a Master of Yoga, an adept at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Traditional Science", author of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several books, who claimed with great authority that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the problem of cancer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had been "solved". He never got cancer but died of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart failure around >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> age 80 in 2008. AG* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *My point is that people with your philosophy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> often make huge claims, with rarely anything >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> practical forthcoming. For >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> example, during the Covid pandemic, a company named >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Moderna produced a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> vaccine in record time, using knowledge of DNA, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> viruses, etc. They couldn't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> have done that without the discovery of DNA, which no >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doubt required by the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> invention of the Electron Microscope. Talk is cheap. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> We can do great things >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in the absence of your vague philosophy. Can you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> actually DO something >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> useful, or is it all talk? AG * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:17:26 UTC+2 Alan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:11:38 AM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Alan. You can do cancer research. But since that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research is not based on fundamental ideas about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality, it will be just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guesswork: Just try 1000 different drugs and cross >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fingers that one might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work. Instead, if people would actually understand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consciousness, they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would cure cancer in 1 week. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I might believe that if you were able to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contribute ANYTHING to ANY problem discussed here. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> All I read are grandiose >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> claims with nothing practical forthcoming. AG* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:08:48 UTC+2 Alan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:01:18 AM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can continue cancer research. But is just like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> playing World of Warcraft in order to get the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> legendary gear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *If you get cancer, which is not my wish, you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell your doctor that the pain and suffering is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> purely imaginary, not to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mention the possible early termination of your life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, do us all a favor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and cease posting like a fool. AG * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 16:48:23 UTC+2 John >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *You didn't answer my question. Should cancer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research be stopped, and if not why not? * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 9:35 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything List <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You make the classical confusion between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> epistemology and ontology. Only because you can watch >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a movie with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spider-Man (epistemology), it doesn't follow that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spider-Man exists >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (ontology). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 15:39:31 UTC+2 John >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 8:04 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything List <[email protected]> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *>>the question of list moderation would not be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevant at this time if one very recent list member >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't think page >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after page of nothing but "(:>)" characters was an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligent rebuttal, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and ALL scientific questions of the form "what is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of X?" can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answered by simply saying "X does not exist".* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *> Of course, given that consciousness is all >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> there is. Why would you waste time talking about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> things that don't exist ?* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *So there's no point in doing cancer research >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because cancer does not exist? Do I have that right? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * John K Clark See what's on my new list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at Extropolis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emails from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> [email protected]. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ce0f45cd-428a-4658-9611-8491375412dfn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 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