@Terren. What is the common-sense notion of existence ? On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 20:00:52 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote:
> We can just use the common-sense notion of existence. Given alternative > theories of reality, one in which consciousness is all that exists, and one > in which consciousness arises from a more fundamental ontology > (matter/energy), are you saying it's possible to prove that one of those is > true? > > On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 10:50 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: > >> @Terren. I repeat: Define "to exist"! Otherwise, what are we even talking >> about ? Mumbo-jumbo ? >> >> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 17:47:49 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >> >>> I'm not asking you to prove that nothing besides consciousness exists. >>> I'm waiting for you to admit that such a proof is impossible. >>> >>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 10:42 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>> >>>> @Terren. Prove what if we didn't even define our terms ? Define "to >>>> exist" and then ask me to prove that nothing else besides consciousness >>>> exists! >>>> >>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 16:48:23 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'm the one that raised this line of questioning about metaphysics and >>>>> proof, because you said you admit everything, and I'm challenging that. >>>>> You >>>>> are changing the subject. >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 9:39 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> @Terren. Why do you avoid the question ? I asked you a simple >>>>>> question: Define "to exist"! Otherwise, what are we even talking about ? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 16:27:06 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If you're not aware of what you can and cannot prove, your logic is >>>>>>> going to be flawed, or worse, you will sound like a religious nut. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 9:19 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>>> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> @Terren. Is not a matter of proving. Is a matter of you becoming >>>>>>>> conscious of consciousness. Is a matter of you properly understanding >>>>>>>> what >>>>>>>> the concepts involved mean. For example, in your understanding, what >>>>>>>> does >>>>>>>> "to exist" mean ? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 16:17:57 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Believe it or not, I'm sympathetic to that kind of theory of >>>>>>>>> reality. It's not far from what I personally believe. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> But at the end of the day, you cannot prove it. Can you admit that? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 9:13 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>>>>>>>> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> @Terren. You don't understand what you are. You are God. Once you >>>>>>>>>> understand why you are God, you also understand why only you exists. >>>>>>>>>> It has >>>>>>>>>> to do with what "to exist" means. "To exists" means to have >>>>>>>>>> form/meaning/quality. As such, only qualia exist, because "qualia" >>>>>>>>>> is just >>>>>>>>>> a synonymous for "existence". And qualia are the way in which you as >>>>>>>>>> God >>>>>>>>>> understand yourself. That's what reality is: is the process through >>>>>>>>>> which >>>>>>>>>> God knows itself. As such, there can be nothing else. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 16:06:45 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I exist, consciousness exists. There's no question about that, >>>>>>>>>>> for me. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What is unprovable is the claim "nothing else exists except >>>>>>>>>>> consciousness". >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, Jan 6, 2025 at 8:08 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>> List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> @Terren. So you're not sure if you exist ? >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> On Monday, 6 January 2025 at 03:07:17 UTC+2 Terren Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The claim that "consciousness is all that exists" is >>>>>>>>>>>>> metaphysics. You cannot prove that, but that doesn't stop you >>>>>>>>>>>>> from saying >>>>>>>>>>>>> things like "energy doesn't exist" as if it were a fact. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The ultimate nature of reality is a mystery. I don't put much >>>>>>>>>>>>> stock in people who speak in certainties about such things. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 3:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything >>>>>>>>>>>>> List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Terren. What metaphysics ? Your existence is metaphysics ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Or is a matter of obvious fact ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 19:18:21 UTC+2 Terren Suydam >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Prove that you admit everything. Admit that your assertion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that *consciousness is all that exists* is metaphysical - >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it cannot be proved. The same is true of the claim that matter >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and energy >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> are all that exists. Both are metaphysical statements. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 12:08 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I always admit everything. It seems to you that I don't >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because I keep saying "Consciousness is all there is". While >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that sentence >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is true, so while that proves with 100% certainty that there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is no matter, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it still doesn't give the full details of consciousness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 18:21:13 UTC+2 Terren Suydam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I think that's the first time you've ever admitted you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't understand something fully. I recommend you keep going >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> in that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> direction. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sun, Jan 5, 2025 at 11:05 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I also said: "if we were to understand consciousness >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fully, then we will know for sure what to expect after >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> death." As of today, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> we don't understand consciousness fully. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2025 at 16:54:49 UTC+2 Terren Suydam >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> When you said this: "And in case we would expect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness, then we will even stop finding any cure for >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cancer. We will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> celebrate cancer." So instead of celebrating cancer, why >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> not skip the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> painful parts? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 3:29:59 PM UTC-5 Cosmin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Where did I say that the next life will be better ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 22:09:01 UTC+2 Terren >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Suydam wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Serious question - what's stopping you from killing >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> yourself and speeding up the transition to happiness? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 3:04 PM 'Cosmin Visan' via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm millionaire, why would I need a job ? Also, if we >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> were to understand consciousness fully, then we will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know for sure what to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> expect after death. And in case we would expect >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness, then we will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> even stop finding any cure for cancer. We will celebrate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cancer. All of our >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> current decisions are made based on incomplete knowledge >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the truth. As >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> such, we make the decisions based on what we imagine >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality to be, not on >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> what it actually is. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:37:03 UTC+2 Alan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 12:30:07 PM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It depends what kind of person you are. If you are a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depressed person, curing you of cancer will not do any >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> good. On the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> contrary, if you would have died you would havd gotten >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a chance at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness in the next life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *You have to be right. Stop your BS, assuming you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> know more than you actually do, or get a job, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> jerkoff, but no more of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> your stupidity. AG * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 21:06:51 UTC+2 Alan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 11:27:28 AM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I just opened a topic a while back about the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> definition of the word "useful" that you keep abusing. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Let's remind you: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Useful = whatever increases happiness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Useless = whatever doesn't increase happiness. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> My philosophy, I guarantee you 100%, increases >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happiness, so is useful. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Getting cured of cancer might still let you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> depressed, so cancer cure is useless. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *You can't be very conscious and make such a hugely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> stupid comment. Don't ya think that being cured of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> cancer is immensely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> happier than succumbing to it? AG* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 19:59:29 UTC+2 Alan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 10:44:42 AM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Alan Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 9:53:59 AM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> How do you expect you can properly fix a car if you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't know how it function ? You just do guesswork, you >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> give it a few kicks >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and maybe it starts. This is how present-day science >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works given that it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doesn't work based on fundamentals, namely based on the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> working of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consciousness. Sure, you can keep doing research this >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> way: kick it till it >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> works. And you might save a few lives. But if you were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> start from >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fundamentals, then you would know exactly what you were >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> doing and you will >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> save 8 billion lives. Not that it would matter at that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> point, given that at >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that level of development we will manipulate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consciousness to such a degree >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that we will not even need bodies anymore. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *About 60 years ago I met a fellow with your >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> philosophy, a Master of Yoga, an adept at "Traditional >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Science", author of >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> several books, who claimed with great authority that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the problem of cancer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> had been "solved". He never got cancer but died of a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> heart failure around >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> age 80 in 2008. AG* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *My point is that people with your philosophy often >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> make huge claims, with rarely anything practical >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> forthcoming. For example, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> during the Covid pandemic, a company named Moderna >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> produced a vaccine in >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> record time, using knowledge of DNA, viruses, etc. They >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> couldn't have done >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> that without the discovery of DNA, which no doubt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> required by the invention >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> of the Electron Microscope. Talk is cheap. We can do >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> great things in the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> absence of your vague philosophy. Can you actually DO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> something useful, or >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is it all talk? AG * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:17:26 UTC+2 Alan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:11:38 AM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> @Alan. You can do cancer research. But since that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research is not based on fundamental ideas about >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> reality, it will be just >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guesswork: Just try 1000 different drugs and cross >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> fingers that one might >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> work. Instead, if people would actually understand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> consciousness, they >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> would cure cancer in 1 week. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *I might believe that if you were able to contribute >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ANYTHING to ANY problem discussed here. All I read are >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> grandiose claims >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> with nothing practical forthcoming. AG* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 17:08:48 UTC+2 Alan >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Grayson wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, January 4, 2025 at 8:01:18 AM UTC-7 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Cosmin Visan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can continue cancer research. But is just like >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> playing World of Warcraft in order to get the legendary >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> gear. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *If you get cancer, which is not my wish, you can >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tell your doctor that the pain and suffering is purely >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> imaginary, not to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> mention the possible early termination of your life. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Now, do us all a favor >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and cease posting like a fool. AG * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 16:48:23 UTC+2 John >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *You didn't answer my question. Should cancer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> research be stopped, and if not why not? * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 9:35 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You make the classical confusion between >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> epistemology and ontology. Only because you can watch a >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> movie with >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spider-Man (epistemology), it doesn't follow that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Spider-Man exists >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> (ontology). >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, 4 January 2025 at 15:39:31 UTC+2 John >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Clark wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 4, 2025 at 8:04 AM 'Cosmin Visan' via >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Everything List <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *>>the question of list moderation would not be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> relevant at this time if one very recent list member >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> didn't think page >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> after page of nothing but "(:>)" characters was an >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> intelligent rebuttal, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> and ALL scientific questions of the form "what is the >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> nature of X?" can be >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> answered by simply saying "X does not exist".* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *> Of course, given that consciousness is all there >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> is. Why would you waste time talking about things that >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> don't exist ?* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> *So there's no point in doing cancer research >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> because cancer does not exist? Do I have that right? * >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * John K Clark See what's on my new list >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> at Extropolis <https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>* >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> emails from it, send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To view this discussion visit >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ce0f45cd-428a-4658-9611-8491375412dfn%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/ce0f45cd-428a-4658-9611-8491375412dfn%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> . 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