Ah, so I was indeed missing something ! Thanks David for the clarification.
I still think using <hi> is not a satisfying solution though, as it loses semantic information that OSIS is supposed to preserve. OSIS does provide a more generic <name type="..."> tag that could be used. The currently supported name types are "geographic", "holiday", "nonhuman", "person", "ritual", but x-prefixed extensions are also allowed. So a <name type="x-nominasacra"> for example (with proper handling in sword) would be more appropriate - though of course the rendering for it would have to be implemented. Le sam. 15 mars 2025 à 11:46, David Haslam <dfh...@protonmail.com> a écrit : > Arnaud, > > The divineName is used only for the Tetragrammaton and its conjugates from > the Hebrew OT. The SWORD engine renders such using small-caps. > > Nomina Sacra are a quite different matter. Refer to the Wikipedia > article. > > Even the name Jerusalem has a Nomen Sacrum in some MSS. > > David > > Sent from Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> for iOS > > > On Sat, Mar 15, 2025 at 10:31, Arnaud Vié < unas.zole+a...@gmail.com > <On+Sat,+Mar+15,+2025+at+10:31,+Arnaud+Vié+%3C%3Ca+href=>> wrote: > > Maybe I'm missing something, but for the "nomina sacra" use case, why are > you not using the dedicated semantic <divineName> tag ? > > OSIS is designed to store semantic markup when possible, rather than > formatting information. > The OSIS manual clearly specifies that "The hi element is reserved for > cases where the reason for the highlighting or other typographic > distinction is unknown." Here, you know what the reason is, and OSIS > provides a dedicated tag for your use case. So using <hi> here is actually > a misusage as far as OSIS is concerned. > > The more correct course of action would be using <divineName>, and > ensuring that the rendering code in SWORD is applying a proper formatting > to this divineName tag. > (Or even better, allow bibles to carry "stylesheets" to customise the > rendering of tags per-bible without sacrificing the semantic information - > but that's a matter for another day). > > Regards, > > Arnaud > > > > Le sam. 15 mars 2025 à 04:53, David Haslam < dfh...@protonmail.com> a > écrit : > >> I've now documented some of this in the developers' wiki, under a new >> section for *Text styles.* >> >> OSIS Bibles - CrossWire Bible Society >> <https://wiki.crosswire.org/OSIS_Bibles#Text_styles> >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail <https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G> secure email. >> >> On Saturday, March 15th, 2025 at 12:48 AM, DM Smith < >> dmsm...@crosswire.org> wrote: >> >> Your question is really whether it is buggy. it looks good to me, >> Really, Troy has a module for which it works. There may be a future >> latex, html, xhtml, tei, …. that might find a problem and find a bug. >> >> There is an incomplete test suite (all test suites are incomplete!) that >> could be improved with fuller input. Maybe this too. >> >> So much of our software development is, “works for me” I’ll go on to the >> next thing. That’s what I do. If someone finds a problem, then I’ll fix it. >> >> DM >> >> On Mar 14, 2025, at 12:45 PM, David Haslam < dfh...@protonmail.com> >> wrote: >> >> Thanks Troy, 😀 >> >> Your replies were clearly intended to be read by coders! 🥸 >> >> *Has anyone tested this bit of code yet?* >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail <https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G> secure email. >> >> On Friday, March 14th, 2025 at 4:38 PM, Troy A. Griffitts < >> scr...@crosswire.org> wrote: >> >> I believe we support this in SWORD: >> >> ``` >> >> [tgriffitts@fedora filters]$ grep overline * >> osishtmlhref.cpp: else if (type == "ol" || type == "overline" || type == >> "x-overline") { >> osishtmlhref.cpp: outText("<span style=\"text-decoration:overline\">", >> buf, u); >> osislatex.cpp: // there is no officially supported OSIS overline >> attribute, >> osislatex.cpp: // thus either TEI overline or OSIS x-overline would be >> best, >> osislatex.cpp: // OSIS overline attribute is made available, these should >> all >> osislatex.cpp: else if (type == "ol" || type == "overline" || type == >> "x-overline") { >> osislatex.cpp: outText("\\textoverline{", buf, u); >> osisplain.cpp: // there is no officially supported OSIS overline >> attribute, >> osisplain.cpp: // thus either TEI overline or OSIS x-overline would be >> best, >> osisplain.cpp: // OSIS overline attribute is made available, these should >> all >> osisplain.cpp: if (strstr(token, "rend=\"ol\"") || strstr(token, >> "rend=\"x-overline\"") || strstr(token, "rend=\"overline\"") >> osisplain.cpp: || strstr(token, "type=\"ol\"") || strstr(token, >> "type=\"x-overline\"") || strstr(token, "type=\"overline\"")) { >> osisplain.cpp: u->hiType = "overline"; >> osisplain.cpp: if (u->hiType == "overline") { >> osisxhtml.cpp: .overline { text-decoration: overline; }\n\ >> osisxhtml.cpp: // there is no officially supported OSIS overline >> attribute, >> osisxhtml.cpp: // thus either TEI overline or OSIS x-overline would be >> best, >> osisxhtml.cpp: // OSIS overline attribute is made available, these should >> all >> osisxhtml.cpp: else if (type == "ol" || type == "overline" || type == >> "x-overline") { >> osisxhtml.cpp: outText("<span class=\"overline\">", buf, u); >> teihtmlhref.cpp: else if (rend == "overline") >> teihtmlhref.cpp: buf += "<span style=\"text-decoration:overline\">"; >> teihtmlhref.cpp: else if (rend == "overline") >> teilatex.cpp: else if (rend == "overline") >> teilatex.cpp: buf += "\\overline{"; >> teixhtml.cpp: else if (rend == "overline") >> teixhtml.cpp: buf += "<span style=\"text-decoration:overline\">"; >> teixhtml.cpp: else if (rend == "overline") >> ``` >> >> >> On 3/14/25 3:31 PM, David Haslam wrote: >> >> Thanks DM, >> >> As and when we get a fix on this for SWORD as well as JSword, we should >> add a suitable description in OSIS Bibles - CrossWire Bible Society >> <https://wiki.crosswire.org/OSIS_Bibles#Miscellaneous> >> We might even use the *nomen-sacrum* case as the illustrated example. >> >> Can anyone familiar with how SWORD works tell us whether >> >> <hi rend="overline" > θς </hi> >> >> would be correctly rendered by SWORD? >> >> And would we need to specify this within an eXtended *type* attribute >> value (one with an "x-" prefix) for the *abbr* element? >> >> <abbr type="x-nomSac"> >> <hi rend="overline" > θς </hi> >> </abbr> >> >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail <https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G> secure email. >> >> On Friday, March 14th, 2025 at 1:58 PM, DM Smith <dmsm...@crosswire.org> >> <dmsm...@crosswire.org> wrote: >> >> Regarding JSword, it supports some TEI within OSIS. Specifically it >> supports hi with TEI’s attribute rend in addition to OSIS’s attribute type. >> Chris Little directed that this should be so. >> >> It has been a long time since we discussed this, so my memory might be >> faulty that OSIS was based on TEI and SWORD/JSword would allow some TEI >> constructs with the OSIS filter. >> >> JSword needs a small, easy change to support overline. At this time, it >> will show the text without any decoration. It should be added to our >> edition of OSIS. >> >> On Mar 14, 2025, at 4:55 AM, David Haslam <dfh...@protonmail.com> >> <dfh...@protonmail.com> wrote: >> >> Hi Troy, >> >> Does SWORD support an OSIS equivalent to this TEI snippet? >> >> <abbr type="nomSac"> >> <hi rend="overline"> θς </hi> >> </abbr> >> >> >> Not asking about the *abbr* element, but the *rend="overline"* attribute >> for the *hi* element. >> >> Rendering text with *overline* is not documented in the *OSIS User >> Manual*. >> >> 1. Has this ever been tested in SWORD front-ends? >> 2. How about JSword-based apps? >> >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail <https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G> secure email. >> >> On Friday, March 14th, 2025 at 8:48 AM, David Haslam >> <dfh...@protonmail.com> <dfh...@protonmail.com> wrote: >> >> Follow-up... >> >> The screenshot image in my *previous reply* is what I saw in *Safari* >> when I clicked Troy's link while viewing messages from my *iPad Mini 4*. >> >> Now that I've done likewise while viewing messages from my *Windows 11 >> PC*, I see a proper XML file via the *Edge* browser! >> >> <w> >> <abbr type="nomSac" > >> <hi rend="overline" > θς </hi> >> </abbr> >> </w> >> <w> τον </w> >> <w> κοσμον </w> >> <pc> · </pc> >> <lb/> >> <w> ωστε </w> >> <w> τον </w> >> >> >> Just shows that WYSINAWYG ! 🥸 >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail <https://pr.tn/ref/SWXT9A5YZ67G> secure email. >> >> On Friday, March 14th, 2025 at 6:40 AM, David Haslam >> <dfh...@protonmail.com> <dfh...@protonmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> <106d2d31-021b-436b-80ed-0686abfbff3a_image.png> >> Hi Troy, >> >> Above is what I see after I clicked your link! Not sure if that’s what >> you intended. >> >> David >> >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 13, 2025 at 23:52, Troy A. Griffitts < scr...@crosswire.org >> <On+Thu,+Mar+13,+2025+at+23:52,+Troy+A.+Griffitts+%3C%3Ca+href=>> wrote: >> >> This is how we record nomen sacrum in TEI and should transfer to OSIS >> just fine, e.g., >> >> >> https://ntvmr.uni-muenster.de/community/vmr/api/transcript/get/?docID=20001&indexContent=John.3.16&format=teiraw >> >> >> On 3/13/25 4:28 PM, Peter von Kaehne wrote: >> >> I think the best and correct way is to call this ‘display’ and encode the >> exact look you want to achieve via style sheet. >> >> Sent from Outlook for iOS <https://aka.ms/o0ukef> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* sword-devel <sword-devel-boun...@crosswire.org> >> <sword-devel-boun...@crosswire.org> on behalf of David Haslam >> <dfh...@protonmail.com> <dfh...@protonmail.com> >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 13, 2025 2:34 pm >> *To:* Alan Bunning <greekc...@gmail.com> <greekc...@gmail.com> >> *Cc:* sword-devel mailing list <sword-devel@crosswire.org> >> <sword-devel@crosswire.org> >> *Subject:* Re: [sword-devel] Fwd: [modules] New Beta Module: StatResGNT >> It would also require that we devise a means to encode in the OSIS the >> equivalent to what was used in the underlying Wiki format ! >> >> {{overline|ΘΥ}} >> >> I doubt if the SWORD engine has a means to implement that! >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email. >> >> On Thursday, March 13th, 2025 at 2:22 PM, David Haslam >> <dfh...@protonmail.com> <dfh...@protonmail.com> wrote: >> >> Thanks, Alan, for the explanation. >> >> This then prompts a suggestion as to the potential use of the OSIS *abbr* >> element for each instance. This would require that each type of *nomina >> sacrum* would then need to be retained as the abbreviation, and then >> expanded using the XML attribute, e.g. >> >> <abbr expansion="Θεοῦ"> ΘΥ </abbr> >> >> Please refer to the *OSIS User Manual* section 13.2 >> >> NB. I don't know whether the SWORD engine has any code to display the >> expansions! >> *The coders might enlighten us on this point. I have therefore cc: to * >> *sword-devel* >> * in this reply. * >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email. >> >> On Thursday, March 13th, 2025 at 1:45 PM, Alan Bunning >> <greekc...@gmail.com> <greekc...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Yes, that symbol is used to mark nomina sacra. >> >> >> >> >> *Alan Bunning, D.Litt. Executive Director Center for New Testament >> Restoration https://greekcntr.org <https://greekcntr.org/>* >> >> On 3/13/2025 9:42 AM, Kovács Zoltán wrote: >> >> Dear Alan, >> I received the following emails. I haven't looked into them very much, >> but maybe you want to join the conversation. >> Blessings, Zoltan >> >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> Feladó: *David Haslam* < dfh...@protonmail.com> >> Date: 2025. márc. 13., Cs, 14:37 >> Subject: Re: [modules] New Beta Module: StatResGNT >> To: pierre amadio < amadio.pie...@gmail.com> >> Cc: Kovács Zoltán < kov...@gmail.com>, < modu...@crosswire.org> >> >> >> Hi Pierre, >> >> That's a very plausible explanation! >> >> Here are the relevant lines from my *word count*. >> >> Word Count >> ˚Θεέ 2 >> ˚Θεοῦ 690 >> ˚Θεόν 73 >> ˚Θεός 68 >> ˚Θεὸν 72 >> ˚Θεὸς 239 >> ˚Θεῷ 158 >> ˚Κυρίου 231 >> ˚Κυρίῳ 95 >> ˚Κύριε 89 >> ˚Κύριον 63 >> ˚Κύριος 139 >> ˚Κύριόν 1 >> ˚Κύριός 10 >> ˚Πνεύματι 59 >> ˚Πνεύματος 79 >> ˚Πνεύματός 5 >> ˚Πνεῦμά 7 >> ˚Πνεῦμα 99 >> ˚Χριστέ 1 >> ˚Χριστοῦ 252 >> ˚Χριστόν 18 >> ˚Χριστός 41 >> ˚Χριστὸν 48 >> ˚Χριστὸς 71 >> ˚Χριστῷ 104 >> ˚θεὸς 1 >> ˚Ἰησοῦ 329 >> ˚Ἰησοῦν 126 >> ˚Ἰησοῦς 456 >> >> >> NB. If this is a technical means to mark the use of *nomina sacra*, then >> it ought to be described in the conf file! >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail <https://proton.me/mail/home> secure email. >> >> >> On Thursday, March 13th, 2025 at 1:11 PM, pierre amadio >> amadio.pie...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> Hi there. >> >> As far as I know, there is no such greek accent as a circular mark >> such as Ring Above (U+02DA). >> Looking at the source text, they seem to always appears next to words >> such as >> >> https://github.com/Center-for-New-Testament-Restoration/SR/blob/main/SR.txt >> ˚Ἰησοῦ ˚Χριστοῦ, >> ˚Πνεύματος >> ˚Κυρίου >> >> Could it be a way to mark the use of a nomina sacra in manuscripts ? >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomina_sacra >> >> On Thu, 13 Mar 2025 at 13:38, Kovács Zoltán kov...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> Thanks, David, I will look into it and get back to you. >> Best, Zoltan >> >> David Haslam dfh...@protonmail.com ezt írta (időpont: 2025. márc. 13., >> Cs, 13:33): >> >> Arising from the grapheme count, I have a further technical query. >> >> There are 3626 instances of U+02DA RING ABOVE. >> >> I am wondering whether these would be better being all replaced by U+030A >> COMBINING RING ABOVE, and if so, whether the mark should follow the Greek >> letter rather than precede it. >> >> NB. My knowledge of Ancient Greek accents rules is fairly limited. >> >> Q. What is the most suitable Unicode font for viewing a Greek NT text? >> Might it be sensible to include such an element in the .conf file? >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email. >> >> On Thursday, March 13th, 2025 at 12:13 PM, David Haslam >> dfh...@protonmail.com wrote: >> >> Hi Kovács, >> >> Using BabelPad Tools, I have just done a grapheme count on the full Greek >> text with accents. >> i.e. After first stripping out the references from the diatheke output. >> See inside attached 7-Zip file. >> >> There are two left/right count mismatches that ought to be looked at. >> >> 2018 ‘ 483 >> 2019 ’ 484 >> 201C “ 1,904 >> 201D ” 1,907 >> >> cf. The counts of left/right parentheses were OK. >> >> 0028 ( 62 >> 0029 ) 62 >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email. >> >> On Thursday, March 13th, 2025 at 11:59 AM, David Haslam >> dfh...@protonmail.com wrote: >> >> This module has the wrong Versification. >> >> It's a Greek NT and therefore LXX is simply the wrong choice! >> >> Please fix this ASAP. >> >> Dom, Please also fix any bug in your script that led to this mistake! >> >> Best regards, >> >> David >> >> Sent with Proton Mail secure email. >> >> On Wednesday, March 12th, 2025 at 5:52 PM, dom...@crosswire.org >> dom...@crosswire.org wrote: >> >> This is to announce that we have just now uploaded StatResGNT >> in the CrossWire beta repository for testing purposes. >> >> If no raised concern nor a quality alert has been sent on the list, >> StatResGNT will be published in a week. >> >> This is an update. >> Language=Ancient Greek (to 1453) >> Version=1.3 >> History_1.3=(2025-03-12) Update to newest release (last database change: >> 2024-07-16) >> TextSource= >> https://github.com/Center-for-New-Testament-Restoration/SR/blob/master/SR.txt >> Versification=LXX >> >> Many thanks to Kovács_Zoltán for the hard work. >> >> yours >> >> P.S.: This email is sent automatically. >> >> _______________________________________________ >> modules mailing list >> modu...@crosswire.org >> http://www.crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/modules >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: >> sword-devel@crosswire.orghttp://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: >> sword-devel@crosswire.orghttp://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org >> http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel >> Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >> > _______________________________________________ > sword-devel mailing list: sword-devel@crosswire.org > http://crosswire.org/mailman/listinfo/sword-devel > Instructions to unsubscribe/change your settings at above page >
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